Start Murray right now

[dabom]

He needs his reps right now. I don't give a shit if we lose some games.

[TD 21]

Parker-Mills is untenable though and Parker provides more spacing than Murray around Aldridge post ups.

Starting isn't important anyway since this team lacks someone good enough to eat up more than roughly 25 mpg at the position. Minutes in general and a path to closing (if warranted) is more important.

[TheGreatYacht]

Agreed. Let Parker lead the second unit while Manu is gone. Who else is going to do it? Fathead?

[Dex]

Parker actually has the starting lineup clicking right now. The spacing is much better for shooters, and he can actually throw a proper entry pass to LMA.

We don't have a lot of cushion to lose games so Murray can learn how to dribble.

[mexicanjunior]

Need to get Murray starter's minutes. Season is done anyway, might as well see if Murray is worth keeping around for the rebuild.

[spurraider21]

Agreed. Let Parker lead the second unit while Manu is gone. Who else is going to do it? Fathead?
tbh i remember when you and skull-1 were trying to make this forum intolerable with your nonstop "manure" spam after 2013. glad you've come around

[DPG21920]

Look, I’d be fine with Murray starting as he’s overall been the most impactful guard but it’s obvious Pop is not happy with the offense.

He knows they could probably win a few more games if Murray played, but he’s trying to figure out what to do with a struggling offense since he knows the defense is good no matter which PG is starting.

Murray is the worst offensive PG by a wide margin. So as Pop is figuring this offense out he’s not going to play as much. When will that change? I don’t know, but it’s not entirely surprising when you step back and look at what is wrong (the offense) and who has been particularly bad on that end (Murray).

[DAF86]

He's such a difference maker out there on D and the boards. If only he could shoot.

[coachmac87]

Murray needs to be traded

[dabom]

He's such a difference maker out there on D and the boards. If only he could shoot.

In due time. I don't see why not.

[jermaine]

This dude was wide open an wouldn't shoot.. No one was within 4ft of him either. Just pathetic!

[ElNono]

He rebounds well, but is still very green, tbh... he needs maybe another tour on the Toros to get over himself...

[DPG21920]

He's such a difference maker out there on D and the boards. If only he could shoot.

He’s busting his a** with Chip. It’s not a work ethic thing; just a matter if it clicks and he trusts the process or not. Shooting is a very hard skill

[DAF86]

He’s busting his a** with Chip. It’s not a work ethic thing; just a matter if it clicks and he trusts the process or not. Shooting is a very hard skill

He needs to at least start by just letting it fly when he's wide ass open.

[HarlemHeat37]

He’s busting his a** with Chip. It’s not a work ethic thing; just a matter if it clicks and he trusts the process or not. Shooting is a very hard skill

Having a 21% usage rate with a 46% TS is unacceptable in today's league, tbh..I'd like to see Parker benched as much as anybody, but it isn't going to happen, barring injury..especially not in favor of Dejounte Murray:lol

I understand homerism among sports fans, but his potential is so overrated here..there were posters calling him untouchable, last year:lol many posters criticized the front office for not acquiring Paul George or Jimmy Butler with their gold prospect in Murray, claiming he was a better piece than Victor Oladipo(when in reality, Sabonis as a standalone is a much better prospect than Murray) and Kris Dunn/Lavine..I used to like Murray's potential, as well, but that was in limited minutes..the more you watch him, the worse he looks..

Malcolm Brogdon has regressed following a great rookie season, but it would have been interesting to see him playing for Pop and this system, rather than the worst coach in the NBA..

[DAF86]

Having a 21% usage rate with a 46% TS is unacceptable in today's league, tbh..I'd like to see Parker benched as much as anybody, but it isn't going to happen, barring injury..especially not in favor of Dejounte Murray:lol

I understand homerism among sports fans, but his potential is so overrated here..there were posters calling him untouchable, last year:lol many posters criticized the front office for not acquiring Paul George or Jimmy Butler with their gold prospect in Murray, claiming he was a better piece than Victor Oladipo(when in reality, Sabonis as a standalone is a much better prospect than Murray) and Kris Dunn/Lavine..I used to like Murray's potential, as well, but that was in limited minutes..the more you watch him, the worse he looks..

Malcolm Brogdon has regressed following a great rookie season, but it would have been interesting to see him playing for Pop and this system, rather than the worst coach in the NBA..

Hindsight, tbh. If you asked in the offseason, most NBA gm's would have said Murray was a better prospect than Sabonis. Even you didn't argue that fact when I brought it up. And Murray's up and downs this season just fuels the idea that agressively looking for a trade that involved him was the right idea, tbh.

[HarlemHeat37]

Hindsight, tbh. If you asked in the offseason, most NBA gm's would have said Murray was a better prospect than Sabonis. Even you didn't argue that fact when I brought it up. And Murray's up and downs this season just fuels the idea that agressively looking for a trade that involved him was the right idea, tbh.

Why do you think that NBA GMs rate Murray highly, tbh? Just curious what you're basing that on..the only reason I can think of is because Pop showed interest in him..

[DAF86]

Why do you think that NBA GMs rate Murray highly, tbh? Just curious what you're basing that on..

'cause everybody seemed to rate Murray highly. Heck, even the Spurs' management who sees him all the time.

On everygame Murray played last season (and even at the beggining of this one) pretty much every broadcaster talked about his bright future and how he could be an all-star in the future. When did you ever hear a commentator say that about Sabonis?

[dabom]

Having a 21% usage rate with a 46% TS is unacceptable in today's league, tbh..I'd like to see Parker benched as much as anybody, but it isn't going to happen, barring injury..especially not in favor of Dejounte Murray:lol

I understand homerism among sports fans, but his potential is so overrated here..there were posters calling him untouchable, last year:lol many posters criticized the front office for not acquiring Paul George or Jimmy Butler with their gold prospect in Murray, claiming he was a better piece than Victor Oladipo(when in reality, Sabonis as a standalone is a much better prospect than Murray) and Kris Dunn/Lavine..I used to like Murray's potential, as well, but that was in limited minutes..the more you watch him, the worse he looks..

Malcolm Brogdon has regressed following a great rookie season, but it would have been interesting to see him playing for Pop and this system, rather than the worst coach in the NBA..

Spurs didn't miss a beat losing porker. :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

'cause everybody seemed to rate Murray highly. Heck, even the Spurs' management who sees him all the time.

Everygame Murray played last season (and even at the beggining of this one) pretty much every broadcaster talked about his bright future and how he could be an all-star in the future. When did you ever hear a commentator say that about Sabonis?

Does Spurs' management really think that highly of him when they just signed Mills to a multi-year 50 million$ deal and still starting the corpse of TP, though? Maybe they picture him as a combo-guard who can play with Patty, but they haven't even really tested that option..

I don't know, it doesn't seem like they're making much of an effort to accelerate his potential growth if they think that highly of him, at least IMO..

[DPG21920]

'cause everybody seemed to rate Murray highly. Heck, even the Spurs' management who sees him all the time.

Everygame Murray played last season (and even at the beggining of this one) pretty much every broadcaster talked about his bright future and how he could be an all-star in the future. When did you ever hear a commentator say that about Sabonis?

I mean, a bunch of other teams felt totally fine letting Murray slide in the draft. Sabonis was drafted much higher. I think that tells you what they thought about the two prospects

[Hoops Czar]

Does Spurs' management really think that highly of him when they just signed Mills to a multi-year 50 million$ deal and still starting the corpse of TP, though?

The former has nothing to do with the latter.

[DAF86]

Does Spurs' management really think that highly of him when they just signed Mills to a multi-year 50 million$ deal and still starting the corpse of TP, though?

Can't really tell. All I know is that RC, Pop and even some teammates like Manu hyped Murray like they didn't hype anybody else on the history of the club. Not even Kawhi. I remember Hill was very talked about back in the days but never to the point where Murray got.

[DAF86]

I mean, a bunch of other teams felt totally fine letting Murray slide in the draft. Sabonis was drafted much higher. I think that tells you what they thought about the two prospects

The draft has nothing to do with the perception sorrounding each player at the start of this season. Okafor and Russell were drafted before Porzingis too.

[DPG21920]

The draft has nothing to do with the perception sorrounding each player at the start of this season. Okafor and Russell were drafted before Porzingis too.

Ya but they were drafted close to each other. I agree it doesn’t mean anything but Sabonis is/was considered the best prospect of the two.

I also on the flip side don’t think that Mills/TP being around still means SA didn’t expect a lot from Murray. I think they were disappointed he could not grab hold of the starting job.

[DAF86]

Ya but they were drafted close to each other. I agree it doesn’t mean anything but Sabonis is/was considered the best prospect of the two.

I also on the flip side don’t think that Mills/TP being around still means SA didn’t expect a lot from Murray. I think they were disappointed he could not grab hold of the starting job.

At the start of this season Sabonis wasn't considered a better prospect than Murray. Of that I'm sure.

[SAGirl]

Malcolm Brogdon has regressed following a great rookie season, but it would have been interesting to see him playing for Pop and this system, rather than the worst coach in the NBA..
Brogdon was right there for the taking... but PATFO did fall in love with Murray.
RC even met with him personally predraft (interview at Lebron's agent's office bc he wasn't available for interviews at the draft combine.) They loved him... so what ya gonna do? Root for the kid.

It'd be awful if he doesn't develop. It's a late pick but they famously started this season (remember preseason?) hyping him up as a potential all star (remember that?)... so they have high hopes for him... I do believe he was involved in packages for Irving and others. No one bit. So we are all back where we started. They should have at least let him play as much summer ball as possible. He needed it for confidence shooting.

[tholdren]

Murray looked as good as anderson tonight. Garbage

[spursistan]

Having a 21% usage rate with a 46% TS is unacceptable in today's league, tbh..I'd like to see Parker benched as much as anybody, but it isn't going to happen, barring injury..especially not in favor of Dejounte Murray:lol

I understand homerism among sports fans, but his potential is so overrated here..there were posters calling him untouchable, last year:lol many posters criticized the front office for not acquiring Paul George or Jimmy Butler with their gold prospect in Murray, claiming he was a better piece than Victor Oladipo(when in reality, Sabonis as a standalone is a much better prospect than Murray) and Kris Dunn/Lavine..I used to like Murray's potential, as well, but that was in limited minutes..the more you watch him, the worse he looks..

Malcolm Brogdon has regressed following a great rookie season, but it would have been interesting to see him playing for Pop and this system, rather than the worst coach in the NBA..

Welcome back bro..Glad you didn't go the way of TIMMYtoZO as the rumor had it ..Hope everything is treating you well.. :lol..

Yeah I agree with you on Murray..Any (All)star projections for him should probably be out of the window by now. His offensive ineptitude seems to be beyond salvation..Should have tried to sucker the Suns into a Bledose deal that involved him....

[HarlemHeat37]

Brogdon was right there for the taking... but PATFO did fall in love with Murray.
RC even met with him personally predraft (interview at Lebron's agent's office bc he wasn't available for interviews at the draft combine.) They loved him... so what ya gonna do? Root for the kid.

It'd be awful if he doesn't develop. It's a late pick but they famously started this season (remember preseason?) hyping him up as a potential all star (remember that?)... so they have high hopes for him... I do believe he was involved in packages for Irving and others. No one bit. So we are all back where we started. They should have at least let him play as much summer ball as possible. He needed it for confidence shooting.
Of course I still cheer for Murray, I'm just disappointed that he hasn't shown any growth from last season..not only did he not make any progress towards pushing TP, but Pop even favors Forbes over him, for the most part..

I think he can still contribute as a situation defensive player, this season, but defense-first PGs can be easily limited in today's NBA(unless they can shoot from 3, like a Pat Beverley or be a great floor general like Lonzo)..

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Need to get Murray starter's minutes. Season is done anyway, might as well see if Murray is worth keeping around for the rebuild.

We might have the most spoiled fans in bball. 5th best record in the league, season still not started yet in my mind.

[tholdren]

Of course I still cheer for Murray, I'm just disappointed that he hasn't shown any growth from last season..not only did he not make any progress towards pushing TP, but Pop even favors Forbes over him, for the most part..

I think he can still contribute as a situation defensive player, this season, but defense-first PGs can be easily limited in today's NBA(unless they can shoot from 3, like a Pat Beverley or be a great floor general like Lonzo)..

Wut? Lol great floor general. Lol

[KDKSpurs24]

Malcolm Brogdon has regressed following a great rookie season, but it would have been interesting to see him playing for Pop and this system, rather than the worst coach in the NBA..
Brogdon didn’t really regress, in my opinion. He was killing it at the start, averaging over 16ppg and playing well then the Bucks decided to get Bledsoe and bench him and I think that really threw him off. They just recently moved him in the starting lineup at the 2 guard. I think it’s just hard for him to find a rhythm with the change right now.

[SAGirl]

Can't really tell. All I know is that RC, Pop and even some teammates like Manu hyped Murray like they didn't hype anybody else on the history of the club. Not even Kawhi. I remember Hill was very talked about back in the days but never to the point where Murray got.
Well maybe Pop has lost his marbles.

I am being sarcastic obviously... but do you remember Bryn "Curry" Forbes... as in :pop: he's a knock off Steph Curry.. not Seth but Steph...

I think Pop does it to establish confidence in these guys bc he needs them. There is no other way around them. He needs these guys to play well more than he has needed any young guy b4 since Kawhi, and Danny... there's too many injuries, too many old veterans who need rest. He's got to boost their confidence, and sell some tickets.

it's a business after all... or you know... there are new planets discovered each year.. or something.

[SAGirl]

Of course I still cheer for Murray, I'm just disappointed that he hasn't shown any growth from last season..not only did he not make any progress towards pushing TP, but Pop even favors Forbes over him, for the most part..

I think he can still contribute as a situation defensive player, this season, but defense-first PGs can be easily limited in today's NBA(unless they can shoot from 3, like a Pat Beverley or be a great floor general like Lonzo)..

Absolutely on the favoring of Forbes, has played the most minutes of the two, and that was even after Murray started the first few games and got first dibs at both a starting job and not only that, but a spot that was clearly available and open... since at the beginning they didn't even expect TP until late January or February (remember that too). Forbes didn't even really pick up regular minutes until early December when Kyle got hurt. From there on, he's played a lot, there are games where he has played the most of any other player not named Lamarcus. i think it reflects how starved for scoring they are from their guards.

It's majorly disappointing. We have chatted about here precisely about his lack of shooting to the point where he's not even taking up any jumpshots and just sometimes attempting one handed floaters from all the way out to the foul line. If he doesn't develop some offensive game he will indeed not fare that well long term for the team, since they need offense from their backcourt. It's one of the biggest needs they have (aside from healthy Kawhi obviously).

[Chinook]

It's not just his shooting. Murray's really just not a good player right now. He can't dribble in practice, can't finish, can't defend without fouling. He's an ambitious and willing play-maker with just enough talent there to make it work often enough. He's a hard-nosed rebounder at a time when the team apparently can't board well. He's a tall, rangy guy who can look pretty good when he happens to not get a whistle. The best thing about him is that he seems to be absorbing teaching methods, so when he eventually does get it, he should be a solid, fundamental player.

[Dex]

It's not just his shooting. Murray's really just not a good player right now. He can't dribble in practice, can't finish, can't defend without fouling. He's an ambitious and willing play-maker with just enough talent there to make it work often enough. He's a hard-nosed rebounder at a time when the team apparently can't board well. He's a tall, rangy guy who can look pretty good when he happens to not get a whistle. The best thing about him is that he seems to be absorbing teaching methods, so when he eventually does get it, he should be a solid, fundamental player.

I still don't get this narrative.

What did Murray improve in the offseason?

He still can't dribble. He still can't shoot. He still isn't a good passer. The only offensive move he has that is reliable is his floater, which is the same as last season.

Yes, he seems to be learning the game with more playing time, but that is bound to happen, or you just aren't cut out for the NBA. He has had every chance this season to show us this supposed "improvement", and he is one Patty hot streak away from still being the third best PG on the team.

His athleticism, length, and tenacity give him the tools he needs to stay out on the floor, particularly on defense. But I am not at all impressed with his progress from last season...he's doing the same stuff he did last year in more time. He has a long ways to go to reaching this supposed ceiling.

[Hoops Czar]

I still don't get this narrative.

What did Murray improve in the offseason?

He still can't dribble. He still can't shoot. He still isn't a good passer. The only offensive move he has that is reliable is his floater, which is the same as last season.

Yes, he seems to be learning the game with more playing time, but that is bound to happen, or you just aren't cut out for the NBA. He has had every chance this season to show us this supposed "improvement", and he is one Patty hot streak away from still being the third best PG on the team.

His athleticism, length, and tenacity give him the tools he needs to stay out on the floor, particularly on defense. But I am not at all impressed with his progress from last season...he's doing the same stuff he did last year in more time. He has a long ways to go to reaching this supposed ceiling.

The narrative for Murray is and always has been that he was a project guard coming out of college, 3 to 4 years away from being a competent NBA caliber player. That hasn't changed. He had a few flash in the pan games his freshman season (ie. 10-10 fg vs Cleveland) and all of a sudden, the armchair generals in this forum wanted him as Parker's instant replacement. I wonder where all the hype surrounding this kid is coming from?

Most 1st and 2nd year players play Summer League ball in the offseason to help prepare for the season. Murray was sent home for reasons unknown. He belongs in the G-league developing like most unpolished, raw talent but since the Spurs need to rest their roster and micromanage each player's workload, they need extra guards to fill in for Parker and Ginobili as well as managing the minutes of Forbes and Mills. Incremental improvements are possible during the season but dramatic improvements are made in the off-season and the highly touted PATFO wanted nothing to do with him.

[ElNono]

He does looks way better than Fathead did in his 2nd season, tbh

[spursistan]

The narrative for Murray is and always has been that he was a project guard coming out of college, 3 to 4 years away from being a competent NBA caliber player. That hasn't changed. He had a few flash in the pan games his freshman season (ie. 10-10 fg vs Cleveland) and all of a sudden, the armchair generals in this forum wanted him as Parker's instant replacement. I wonder where all the hype surrounding this kid is coming from?

Most 1st and 2nd year players play Summer League ball in the offseason to help prepare for the season. Murray was sent home for reasons unknown. He belongs in the G-league developing like most unpolished, raw talent but since the Spurs need to rest their roster and micromanage each player's workload, they need extra guards to fill in for Parker and Ginobili as well as managing the minutes of Forbes and Mills. Incremental improvements are possible during the season but dramatic improvements are made in the off-season and the highly touted PATFO wanted nothing to do with him.

I think he was taken out of action because he was part of the package that would have landed Kyrie. they didn't want to further torpedo his value as he was looking abysmal in SL by the the time the trade rumors started to swirl.

As for improvements he sure does seem to be too much of a talker than a walker judging by his look-at-me-I'm-hard-at-work Instagram timeline.

Just gotta show more patience with him as the point guard is the most difficult position to master in this league. I wouldn't throw him for a pu-pu platter, but I would definitely move him for second tier PGs like Kemba Walker if the opportunity presents itself..

[SAGirl]

He does looks way better than Fathead did in his 2nd season, tbh
Maybe he looks that way but his stats don’t support it.

That’s a pretty low bar too, considering you hate him. No one was saying Kyle was going to be an all star, certainly not Manu or the coaching staff... Murray is right now far from that target but has time. This season though he is probably what he is.

[LittleCriminal]

I don't think elnono hates you Kyle Anderson aka SaGirl.
we just hoped you not suck at basketball being in ur 4th year as a spur.

[spurs10]

Is Murray old enough to buy a beer?

[SAGirl]

I think he was taken out of action because he was part of the package that would have landed Kyrie. they didn't want to further torpedo his value as he was looking abysmal in SL by the the time the trade rumors started to swirl.

As for improvements he sure does seem to be too much of a talker than a walker judging by his look-at-me-I'm-hard-at-work Instagram timeline.

Just gotta show more patience with him as the point guard is the most difficult position to master in this league. I wouldn't throw him for a pu-pu platter, but I would definitely move him for second tier PGs like Kemba Walker if the opportunity presents itself..
I thought the same thing, even at the time, without knowing how aggressive the Spurs were trying to trade for Kyrie. Short of Kawhi I think everyone else was offered and Murray was their best young prospec, having had a few regular season games but not really exposed. Murray was Indeed torpedoing his value as well as risking injury in summer league.

Anyways, He’s still very young and has time to improve (unless he’s traded in which case he’s need to do that anyways for his career but elsewhere). For this season though, you can dig up old posts from me where I really wanted him to hold on to that starting spot. Still would like him to but he’s obviously not that guy this year.

edut: I also don’t trust Tony to stay healthy so... IMO Murray will play a lot ready or not anyways.

[SAGirl]

Is Murray old enough to buy a beer?
He’s 21 and by next season will be 22, very young but probably should be making some progress offensively by next season b4 it gets late.

I think the Spurs could still play him even if he never improves offensively as a kind of energy player defender but that is so far from what his “potential” was advertised. Think if he was elite around the basket his lack of shooting wouldn’t matter.

[LittleCriminal]

lol worried Murray's offense being late when ur offense and defense is still missing after 4 years..

[tholdren]

The narrative for Murray is and always has been that he was a project guard coming out of college, 3 to 4 years away from being a competent NBA caliber player. That hasn't changed. He had a few flash in the pan games his freshman season (ie. 10-10 fg vs Cleveland) and all of a sudden, the armchair generals in this forum wanted him as Parker's instant replacement. I wonder where all the hype surrounding this kid is coming from?

Most 1st and 2nd year players play Summer League ball in the offseason to help prepare for the season. Murray was sent home for reasons unknown. He belongs in the G-league developing like most unpolished, raw talent but since the Spurs need to rest their roster and micromanage each player's workload, they need extra guards to fill in for Parker and Ginobili as well as managing the minutes of Forbes and Mills. Incremental improvements are possible during the season but dramatic improvements are made in the off-season and the highly touted PATFO wanted nothing to do with him.

What talent? You can literally take any college jr and put him on the spurs in place of murray and you would get better results. How can pg be your position when you cant pass or dribble? Sure you give him minutes he will get better. So will anyone. He is a prime example of how the nba isnt about skill

[Chinook]

I still don't get this narrative.

What did Murray improve in the offseason?

He still can't dribble. He still can't shoot. He still isn't a good passer. The only offensive move he has that is reliable is his floater, which is the same as last season.

Yes, he seems to be learning the game with more playing time, but that is bound to happen, or you just aren't cut out for the NBA. He has had every chance this season to show us this supposed "improvement", and he is one Patty hot streak away from still being the third best PG on the team.

His athleticism, length, and tenacity give him the tools he needs to stay out on the floor, particularly on defense. But I am not at all impressed with his progress from last season...he's doing the same stuff he did last year in more time. He has a long ways to go to reaching this supposed ceiling.

I do think his passing is better than it was last year. Besides entry passes (which are hard because he can't shoot), he's been more accurate. Dude's having passing-related TOs at about half the rate he was last year. Also, his defense is getting better. I stand by my statement that he's not good yet. But he's learning to play a purer type of D that guys like Kawhi and Danny never had to, since they were good defenders from Day One. Sean commented on how well Murray went around screens. That's long been a sore spot for Spurs players.

I don't know where I posted it, but I didn't think developing skills was supposed to be Murray's goal this season. I wanted him to develop his body instead. By and large, I think he did that. I don't mind his current bit-player role either. I didn't think he was supposed to be a starting-caliber player yet. But he can come off the bench and do some things, especially sandwiched between an experienced play-maker and a floor-spacer.

[Brazil]

He does looks way better than Fathead did in his 2nd season, tbh

:lol not that a big achievement tbh...

[daledondale]

:lol not that a big achievement tbh...
:lol Funny and sad.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Chip Engelland should be fired on the spot for his failure with Murray. Biggest need for the team in years and he still can't shoot better than a 15 year old pickup player in the ghetto

[bklynspursfan]

Chip Engelland should be fired on the spot for his failure with Murray. Biggest need for the team in years and he still can't shoot better than a 15 year old pickup player in the ghetto

Uh, I highly doubt that has to do with Chip. His track record speaks for itself

[duncan2k5]

Chip Engelland should be fired on the spot for his failure with Murray. Biggest need for the team in years and he still can't shoot better than a 15 year old pickup player in the ghetto

Biggest failure? Lmao! The second season is barely halfway over... The guy is 21...and ppl are already writing him off as worthless... The guy is the best pg on the team as far as I'm concerned... His defense is top notch... His only issue is getting the respect and consistent playing time others at his position does... That sort of thing affects players his age... Parker isn't a game changer anymore... We know what we will get from Parker at this age and it won't be enough to beat the Dubs or most other contenders... This is something we KNOW... but Murray WILL be that game changer that gets to the rim at will and opens up the beautiful game if we just give him the chance... It is unreasonable to expect him to be great at the start of this season when he barely played last year, only played in the playoffs when Parker went down... Had a short off-season where he was benched in summer league because of a pending trade...

[Poolboy5623]

We might have the most spoiled fans in bball. 5th best record in the league, season still not started yet in my mind.

5th best record in a 1 team league..

[bklynspursfan]

Biggest failure? Lmao! The second season is barely halfway over... The guy is 21...and ppl are already writing him off as worthless... The guy is the best pg on the team as far as I'm concerned... His defense is top notch... His only issue is getting the respect and consistent playing time others at his position does... That sort of thing affects players his age... Parker isn't a game changer anymore... We know what we will get from Parker at this age and it won't be enough to beat the Dubs or most other contenders... This is something we KNOW... but Murray WILL be that game changer that gets to the rim at will and opens up the beautiful game if we just give him the chance... It is unreasonable to expect him to be great at the start of this season when he barely played last year, only played in the playoffs when Parker went down... Had a short off-season where he was benched in summer league because of a pending trade...

I can appreciate you're a fanboy, but seriously? That's his only issue?

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Biggest failure? Lmao! The second season is barely halfway over... The guy is 21...and ppl are already writing him off as worthless... The guy is the best pg on the team as far as I'm concerned... His defense is top notch... His only issue is getting the respect and consistent playing time others at his position does... That sort of thing affects players his age... Parker isn't a game changer anymore... We know what we will get from Parker at this age and it won't be enough to beat the Dubs or most other contenders... This is something we KNOW... but Murray WILL be that game changer that gets to the rim at will and opens up the beautiful game if we just give him the chance... It is unreasonable to expect him to be great at the start of this season when he barely played last year, only played in the playoffs when Parker went down... Had a short off-season where he was benched in summer league because of a pending trade...

Never called him worthless. I like him. But I've seen college freshman become better shooters their sophomore season, light years better in shooting and form an confidence than Murray is now, with an NBA mega million dollar staff. Just saying.

[duncan2k5]

Never called him worthless. I like him. But I've seen college freshman become better shooters their sophomore season, light years better in shooting and form an confidence than Murray is now, with an NBA mega million dollar staff. Just saying.

U guys make it seem like shooting is the end all be all...Giannis STILL can't shoot, and he might be MVP

[duncan2k5]

I can appreciate you're a fanboy, but seriously? That's his only issue?

When I say only issue, I mean with regards to him showing improvement... I really feel like if he plays more and is given a real consistent role and minutes, he will start to grow faster instead of maybe playing him 10 minutes one game, 20 the next, then benching another... Even when he plays great and patty plays horrid, he is benched for patty... He isn't rewarded for good play, while others are for bad play

[DAF86]

U guys make it seem like shooting is the end all be all...Giannis STILL can't shoot, and he might be MVP

He never will, unless he learns to shoot someday.

[duncan2k5]

He never will, unless he learns to shoot someday.

So I guess in ur book Kyle Korver is better than Giannis...

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

5th best record in a 1 team league..

Better than 25th.

[tholdren]

U guys make it seem like shooting is the end all be all...Giannis STILL can't shoot, and he might be MVP

No he cant dribble or pass either

[TD 21]

Think people jumped the gun with Murray because of combination of Spurs' unprecedented hyping of a prospect, their track record of finding gems, his physical tools and a few early flashes. Reality is, there isn't so much as a sure fire starter in terms of comparisons for his type and Smart (converted to wing), Carter-Williams, Dunn, Mudiay, Payton, Exum, were all more hyped variations.




I think he was taken out of action because he was part of the package that would have landed Kyrie. they didn't want to further torpedo his value as he was looking abysmal in SL by the the time the trade rumors started to swirl.


As for improvements he sure does seem to be too much of a talker than a walker judging by his

look-at-me-I'm-hard-at-work
Instagram timeline.

Just gotta show more patience with him as the point guard is the most difficult position to master in this league. I wouldn't throw him for a pu-pu platter, but I would definitely move him for second tier PGs like Kemba Walker if the opportunity presents itself..



Due in part to Spurs' (waning) mystique, he might have more value than his type otherwise would. If Hornets decide to move Walker in the off season and aren't dead set on attaching a bloated contract with it, I actually think Mills, Murray, 1st, would have a shot. That's the standard solid veteran, prospect, pick package for a star. PG is also the most saturated position in the league, which could depress his value some.

People generally focus on value, while discounting the financial aspect. They're likely have to overpay to retain him and even if they don't, his next contract probably sends their non playoff, limited upside team into the tax. Mills-Murray makes for a cost effective PG rotation.

Cho has also done some bizarre things, like turn down 4 1sts from Celtics for 9th pick in '15, which he used on Kaminsky, who had 3rd big upside. Also, trade the 22nd pick in '16 for Belinelli, when the league had clearly moved beyond giving up 1sts for middling veterans.

[spursistan]

Think people jumped the gun with Murray because of combination of Spurs' unprecedented hyping of a prospect, their track record of finding gems, his physical tools and a few early flashes. Reality is, there isn't so much as a sure fire starter in terms of comparisons for his type and Smart (converted to wing), Carter-Williams, Dunn, Mudiay, Payton, Exum, were all more hyped variations.





Due in part to Spurs' (waning) mystique, he might have more value than his type otherwise would. If Hornets decide to move Walker in the off season and aren't dead set on attaching a bloated contract with it, I actually think Mills, Murray, 1st, would have a shot. That's the standard solid veteran, prospect, pick package for a star. PG is also the most saturated position in the league, which could depress his value some.

People generally focus on value, while discounting the financial aspect. They're likely have to overpay to retain him and even if they don't, his next contract probably sends their non playoff, limited upside team into the tax. Mills-Murray makes for a cost effective PG rotation.

Cho has also done some bizarre things, like turn down 4 1sts from Celtics for 9th pick in '15, which he used on Kaminsky, who had 3rd big upside. Also, trade the 22nd pick in '16 for Belinelli, when the league had clearly moved beyond giving up 1sts for middling veterans.



Yep, not to mention that this pick could actually end up being in the low 20s as we are about to take on the hardest remaining schedule in the league, possibly without Leonard for the entirety of it..

Teams usually prefer to not trade their star/marquee player within the conference unless there is a package that blows them away.. Out West, everybody is set at the point guard point but us. the Spurs have the best combination of need and decent-ish assets to pull this off. Walker's profile/pedigree is still pretty low around the league, I think he could be gettable for that haul should the Hornets pivot to to another rebuild, which they should do..And of course the conservative and "archaic idiots" of our FO should be open to it.. :lol

Update: there it is..

954367529744347141

[DAF86]

So I guess in ur book Kyle Korver is better than Giannis...

lol no, son. I'm just saying that not being able to shoot is a huge handicap that hinders even a freak like Giannis. Shooting is the most important skill in basketball. You can literally be only good at shooting and you may find yourself a spot on a team, you can't say that about any other skill.

[TD 21]

Yep, not to mention that this pick could actually end up being in the low 20s as we are about to take on the hardest remaining schedule in the league, possibly without Leonard for the entirety of it..

Teams usually prefer to not trade their star/marquee player within the conference unless there is a package that blows them away.. Out West, everybody is set at the point guard point but us. the Spurs have the best combination of need and decent-ish assets to pull this off. Walker's profile/pedigree is still pretty low around the league, I think he could be gettable for that haul should the Hornets pivot to to another rebuild, which they should do..And of course the conservative and "archaic idiots" of our FO should be open to it.. :lol

Update: there it is..

954367529744347141

I'm concerned with them playing the culture / loyalty game with Mills and to a lesser extent Gay. Even though the latter just arrived, a big part of the selling point was to play meaningful games for the first time in his career. Although he could seek a buyout and hook up with someone like Pelicans, who desperately need a big wing. Granted, they were supposedly open to trading culture carrier (think this would also be a selling point to a team about to embark on a re-build), took less to stay Green, so why not a less important piece?

It's so rare that this many things like up (Walker and Williams are known as two good guys). No one should have more motivation than them to pull this off and anything short of that will solidify that they're no longer serious about contending for a championship.

Nuggets are the concern out West. Barton, Mudiay, Faried, Arthur for Walker, Williams.

[sasaint]

I'm concerned with them playing the culture / loyalty game with Mills and to a lesser extent Gay. Even though the latter just arrived, a big part of the selling point was to play meaningful games for the first time in his career. Although he could seek a buyout and hook up with someone like Pelicans, who desperately need a big wing. Granted, they were supposedly open to trading culture carrier (think this would also be a selling point to a team about to embark on a re-build), took less to stay Green, so why not a less important piece?

It's so rare that this many things like up (Walker and Williams are known as two good guys). No one should have more motivation than them to pull this off and anything short of that will solidify that they're no longer serious about contending for a championship.

Nuggets are the concern out West. Barton, Mudiay, Faried, Arthur for Walker, Williams.

Because Gay just arrived, I almost think he is less likely to be moved than anybody. Sign a guy... he gets injured... trade him... That doesn't sound like the Spurs.

[TD 21]

Because Gay just arrived, I almost think he is less likely to be moved than anybody. Sign a guy... he gets injured... trade him... That doesn't sound like the Spurs.

He might not be re-signed anyway and just like the Aldridge situation, this is a new day. Spurs were officially welcomed to the real NBA (as opposed to the utopian existence they enjoyed throughout the Duncan era) with that. Culture, loyalty, etc. is great, but talent wins and they don't have enough of it.

This might be tough for them internally, but externally it's not going to hurt their reputation. This is how the business works and they can no longer be immune to it, if they're serious about trying to contend for championships. If nothing else, just in case he might have a wandering eye, this would clinch Leonard's extending.

[spurraider21]

:lol as ive said for a while now, "trade fatty" is the new "trade porker"

not gonna happen. just like all the old "trade bonner, blair, neal" for an allstar threads we used to get

[sasaint]

He might not be re-signed anyway and just like the Aldridge situation, this is a new day. Spurs were officially welcomed to the real NBA (as opposed to the utopian existence they enjoyed throughout the Duncan era) with that. Culture, loyalty, etc. is great, but talent wins and they don't have enough of it.

This might be tough for them internally, but externally it's not going to hurt their reputation. This is how the business works and they can no longer be immune to it, if they're serious about trying to contend for championships. If nothing else, just in case he might have a wandering eye, this would clinch Leonard's extending.

Hey, I'm on your side. But I will continue to doubt that PATFO are - until they actually do something to demonstrate that the leopard has changed its spots.

But isn't it Rudy who has the option next year and not PATFO?

[TD 21]

Hey, I'm on your side. But I will continue to doubt that PATFO are - until they actually do something to demonstrate that the leopard has changed its spots.

But isn't it Rudy who has the option next year and not PATFO?

Like I said, I'm skeptical too. They've got to be realistic. I know they wouldn't want to move Mills unless it were for a Paul or an Irving (unlike Parker, who they wouldn't move under any circumstance), but the PG's who are better than Walker aren't attainable.

He does, but that was just in case he looked close to finished or suffered another significant injury. Short of that, he was more than likely always going to opt out because he can at least recoup the MLE for multiple years.

[gambit1990]

murray should be starting. give him some consistent PT.

[monkeypunk]

We might have the most spoiled fans in bball. 5th best record in the league, season still not started yet in my mind.

Seriously. Other teams fans would kill to be where we are and we have the best coach in the league yet some dimwits want to bitch about him and where we are.

Rather have Tyron Lue, Dantoni, Walton? GTFO if you can't see out of your own ass, you trolls.

[SAGirl]

I'm concerned with them playing the culture / loyalty game with Mills and to a lesser extent Gay. Even though the latter just arrived, a big part of the selling point was to play meaningful games for the first time in his career. Although he could seek a buyout and hook up with someone like Pelicans, who desperately need a big wing. Granted, they were supposedly open to trading culture carrier (think this would also be a selling point to a team about to embark on a re-build), took less to stay Green, so why not a less important piece?

It's so rare that this many things like up (Walker and Williams are known as two good guys). No one should have more motivation than them to pull this off and anything short of that will solidify that they're no longer serious about contending for a championship.

Nuggets are the concern out West. Barton, Mudiay, Faried, Arthur for Walker, Williams.
You have a very good point with Denver. They are desperate and possibly worse when it comes to PG play. They got Millsap over the summer so one knows that the FO is at least serious about trying to improve their roster and I also read at some point they wanted to take advantage of Jokic's last few cheap season (or seasons?)... anyways, I would not rule them out. They have assets and have pulled off some weird deals for Lyles and Plumlee.

[duncan2k5]

Murray needs to start

[duncan2k5]

Tony and Mills is having bad games now, and they're on the downside of their career and can't defend... Murray although he may have bad games due to youth and inexperience... He only has up to go

[jermaine]

After watching this game tonight, he's not where he needs to be, but I do like this bum ass kid. He's a defensive, pass 1st pg, that loves to rebound. I guess he can stay.

[Chinook]

Murray made some good plays and missed some plays that were beyond his skill. Provided he gets better, that's all good. However, he wrecked the offense every time he was in. Dude couldn't and wouldn't shoot, and that meant that the flow would come to an abrupt stop every time he caught the ball on the perimeter. He definitely needs something to hang his hat on. The closest thing he has now is that abysmal floater.

[duncan2k5]

Murray made some good plays and missed some plays that were beyond his skill. Provided he gets better, that's all good. However, he wrecked the offense every time he was in. Dude couldn't and wouldn't shoot, and that meant that the flow would come to an abrupt stop every time he caught the ball on the perimeter. He definitely needs something to hang his hat on. The closest thing he has now is that abysmal floater.

For now he hangs his hat on defense, rebounding, and pushing the pace... As time goes on he will get better shooting wise... I remember a stretch this year where he was shooting from midrange and hitting everything for about three straight games, then somehow he lost confidence... Don't know owners if it's Pop pulling him after a bad shot that has him shook, but he isn't as confident shooting now

[Namundy]

He not ready

[TheGreatYacht]

Looking like De Culo's athletic brother offensively tbh....

[tholdren]

Looking like De Culo's athletic brother offensively tbh....

But dumber. He can only rebound and run a fast break if he is the only offensive player. Its like a 4th grade kid who is faster than everyone. Yet he got a ride and drafted. Terrible talent in the nba

[sasaint]

Looking like De Culo's athletic brother offensively tbh....

Except, wasn't Nando a good passer?

[tholdren]

Except, wasn't Nando a good passer?

No.

[gambit1990]

murray and parker now have the same PER. tony is still tied with forbes for worst VORP on the team. tony’s shooting 24% the last three games.

[tholdren]

murray and parker now have the same PER. tony is still tied with forbes for worst VORP on the team. tony’s shooting 24% the last three games.

Both suck

[duncan2k5]

Both suck

except one will get better, and one is getting worse

[Keepin' it real]

Start Murray right now

:pop: Ok.

:pop: Oh, anything else? I'm here to serve you.

[ace3g]

Raul Dominguez Jr. @Abrjsdad
(https://twitter.com/Abrjsdad) 5m (https://twitter.com/Abrjsdad/status/955265176885956608)
Pop said "we'll see" when asked if Dejounte would continue to start at point guard over Tony Parker.

[dabom]

+1

[dabom]

+1

[SAGirl]

He might not be re-signed anyway and just like the Aldridge situation, this is a new day. Spurs were officially welcomed to the real NBA (as opposed to the utopian existence they enjoyed throughout the Duncan era) with that. Culture, loyalty, etc. is great, but talent wins and they don't have enough of it.

This might be tough for them internally, but externally it's not going to hurt their reputation. This is how the business works and they can no longer be immune to it, if they're serious about trying to contend for championships. If nothing else, just in case he might have a wandering eye, this would clinch Leonard's extending.

[palangi]

Raul Dominguez Jr. @Abrjsdad
(https://twitter.com/Abrjsdad) 5m (https://twitter.com/Abrjsdad/status/955265176885956608)
Pop said "we'll see" when asked if Dejounte would continue to start at point guard over Tony Parker.



Hopefully they are doing this to raise his trade value

[TheGreatYacht]

Keep starting him. This is a lost season might as well get this dude's trade value up.

Fatty Mills needs to be traded otoh :lmao watching this chubby chode try and close games is a Shaqtin a Fool 2hr movie

[ace3g]

Spurs point guard Tony Parker came off the bench Sunday against the Indiana Pacers for the first time in his career in the regular season, and the first time since the 2010 playoffs. Parker said Spurs coach Gregg Popovich told him that "he thought it was time." "I was like, ‘Oh, no problem,'" Parker said. "Just like Manu [Ginobili], just like Pau [Gasol], that day's going to come. And if Pop sees something that is good for the team, I'll try to do my best."
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fi%2Fcolumnists%2Ffull%2Fwright_michael.pn g&w=80&h=80&scale=cropMichael C. Wright, ESPN Staff Writer

[SAGirl]

Spurs point guard Tony Parker came off the bench Sunday against the Indiana Pacers for the first time in his career in the regular season, and the first time since the 2010 playoffs. Parker said Spurs coach Gregg Popovich told him that "he thought it was time." "I was like, ‘Oh, no problem,'" Parker said. "Just like Manu [Ginobili], just like Pau [Gasol], that day's going to come. And if Pop sees something that is good for the team, I'll try to do my best."
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fi%2Fcolumnists%2Ffull%2Fwright_michael.pn g&w=80&h=80&scale=cropMichael C. Wright, ESPN Staff Writer
Good on him. That's the spirit that will get him re-signed. I have no problem with him being in the team so long as the Spurs improve their talent level.

[dabom]

Spurs point guard Tony Parker came off the bench Sunday against the Indiana Pacers for the first time in his career in the regular season, and the first time since the 2010 playoffs. Parker said Spurs coach Gregg Popovich told him that "he thought it was time." "I was like, ‘Oh, no problem,'" Parker said. "Just like Manu [Ginobili], just like Pau [Gasol], that day's going to come. And if Pop sees something that is good for the team, I'll try to do my best."
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fi%2Fcolumnists%2Ffull%2Fwright_michael.pn g&w=80&h=80&scale=cropMichael C. Wright, ESPN Staff Writer

Pop listening. :tu

[NASpurs]

Spurs point guard Tony Parker came off the bench Sunday against the Indiana Pacers for the first time in his career in the regular season, and the first time since the 2010 playoffs. Parker said Spurs coach Gregg Popovich told him that "he thought it was time." "I was like, ‘Oh, no problem,'" Parker said. "Just like Manu [Ginobili], just like Pau [Gasol], that day's going to come. And if Pop sees something that is good for the team, I'll try to do my best."
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fi%2Fcolumnists%2Ffull%2Fwright_michael.pn g&w=80&h=80&scale=cropMichael C. Wright, ESPN Staff Writer

Respect. Hopefully his next contract also reflects the demotion.

[SAGirl]

Respect. Hopefully his next contract also acknowledges the demotion.
Thought the same... Hopefully it's reflected in his next deal indeed. :tu

Someone commented in the game thread Spurs spending a lot on backup PG...

[Hoops Czar]

Respect. Hopefully his next contract also acknowledges the demotion.
But didn't Mike Conley and Chris Paul dismiss the Spurs because they were worried about Tony Parker Taking a back seat? It's one thing to step aside for a better player, it's quite another to step aside for a flat out scrub who doesn't do anything well at this point in time.

[NASpurs]

Thought the same... Hopefully it's reflected in his next deal indeed. :tu

Someone commented in the game thread Spurs spending a lot on backup PG...

:lol

Seems familiar:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272033&page=3&p=9258289&viewfull=1#post9258289

[NASpurs]

But didn't Mike Conley and Chris Paul dismiss the Spurs because they were worried about Tony Parker Taking a back seat? It's one thing to step aside for a better player, it's quite another to step aside for a flat out scrub who doesn't do anything well at this point in time.

It also means that the Spurs could technically trade for a starting point guard and Parker wouldn't have problems playing the backup which sounds good in my book.

[Seventyniner]

It also means that the Spurs could technically trade for a starting point guard and Parker wouldn't have problems playing the backup which sounds good in my book.

Kemba, come on down!

[SAGirl]

:lol

Seems familiar:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272033&page=3&p=9258289&viewfull=1#post9258289

:lol
Good one

[K...]

When does START WHITE start?

[dabom]

When does START WHITE start?

Never. Book it.

[DPG21920]

Like I’ve said before I’m fine with Murray starting. AT some point Pop had to do it since the offense never improved enough with Mills/TP.

But people acting like this is some automatic good thing are crazy to me. Is there potential? Of course. But Murray being better than tp/mills does not mean he’s been good. He hasn’t. He’s graded out as a non-starter level player so far.

Let’s hope it works and Murray makes some serious gains on offense.

[NASpurs]

Makes me wonder what triggered this. PATFO knows that Murray isn't going to make the offense better and that starting Murray isn't going to make them automatically win games but what's the end game here? Is it to prepare DJ for next year? Is it to see what they have in Murray and see if they need to make a trade? Are they considering this a lost season of sorts due to the uncertainty of Kawhi so they now have the flexibility to start Murray (this one is a reach,I know)? I remember in the past when the team struggled like they have, Pop was known to make changes to the starting lineup whether it was to bench Manu to fortify the bench or start Tony over Antonio Daniels four games into the season, etc etc. I just find it interesting because this obviously has long-term implications. Either DJ is the point guard of the future or there's going to be a revolving door for that position. Seems like the future is now.

[DPG21920]

I think Pop knew what Murray was when TP was injured to start the season. The offense was bad and he was tinkering with TP/Mills since he knew what Murray brought.

Now that it’s over the half-way point and he’s seen everything, he understands that they will have to win with defense since the offense has no reasonable path to getting better. So he’s going to live with Murray’s warts and hope it works out since he gives Sa the best defensive potential at least.

[dabom]

I by no means think the season is over or Kawhi related.

[SAGirl]

Makes me wonder what triggered this. PATFO knows that Murray isn't going to make the offense better and that starting Murray isn't going to make them automatically win games but what's the end game here? Is it to prepare DJ for next year? Is it to see what they have in Murray and see if they need to make a trade? Are they considering this a lost season of sorts due to the uncertainty of Kawhi so they now have the flexibility to start Murray (this one is a reach,I know)? I remember in the past when the team struggled like they have, Pop was known to make changes to the starting lineup whether it was to bench Manu to fortify the bench or start Tony over Antonio Daniels four games into the season, etc etc. I just find it interesting because this obviously has long-term implications. Either DJ is the point guard of the future or there's going to be a revolving door for that position. Seems like the future is now.
They don’t have a starter quality PG and Murray is their best young prospect. It’s that simple.

They need a trade at this point and if they aren’t able to swing one, then they need to find out what they really have in Murray and see if he improves. He’s the only one with upside of the 3. If he doesn’t improve it could potentially be a revolving door until they find a real answer or swing a trade, but if they trade Murray is likely out. For that reason it makes double the sense to find out what they really have in him.

Possible that if Kawhi is lost for the season they need to develop guys too. I know, reach, but what else is there to do in what would be a lost season if Kawhi doesn’t recover in time? If you are going to be losing games at least develop your best prospects.

Also, I still think trades are possible, if not midseason then in the summer. Murray gets devalued if he’s not playing. Still think Mills is most likely to be dealt if Tony remains a bench player.

I am rooting for Murray to pull it together.

[SAGirl]

I think Pop knew what Murray was when TP was injured to start the season. The offense was bad and he was tinkering with TP/Mills since he knew what Murray brought.

Now that it’s over the half-way point and he’s seen everything, he understands that they will have to win with defense since the offense has no reasonable path to getting better. So he’s going to live with Murray’s warts and hope it works out since he gives Sa the best defensive potential at least.
Agreed with this.
They are going to win or lose ugly grind out games.

[ceds]

3 months to late tbh but glad to see him finally get the nod to start.

He aint no point guard but he has the tools to be one of the best perimeter defenders in the L

Boss mills to close out & play the microwave role ....TP to be salary dumped

[dabom]

Glad to be one of the best Posters on ST. :danceclub:danceclub:danceclub

[palangi]

Never. Book it.

I actually like white better than Murray. Better handles and a much better shooter. Has size and length to match Murray.

[ceds]

Glad to be one of the best Posters on ST. :danceclub:danceclub:danceclub

Who are the top 5 on here?

[dabom]

My dude Brazil warming up that sig. :lol

[dabom]

Who are the top 5 on here?

I got 8 names on any given day. Gonna keep mine private.

[tholdren]

3 months to late tbh but glad to see him finally get the nod to start.

He aint no point guard but he has the tools to be one of the best perimeter defenders in the L

Boss mills to close out & play the microwave role ....TP to be salary dumped

And youre an idiot because he looked like garbage and made everyone worse for 28 min. Hes worse than iman shumpert

[ceds]

And youre an idiot because he looked like garbage and made everyone worse for 28 min. Hes worse than iman shumpert

Did you not read the "he's not a pg" part of the post.

Give him free reign up until the deadline and showcase him.


This season and next are throw aways so let him put up numbers

[tholdren]

Have you not seen him play? Whos trading for a rebounding perimeter player who cant shoot dribble pass, and turns it over regularly? He rebounds the ball. You overrate his defense.

Give him free reign up until the deadline and showcase him... why? He loses value

[ceds]

Have you not seen him play? Whos trading for a rebounding perimeter player who cant shoot dribble pass, and turns it over regularly? He rebounds the ball. You overrate his defense.

Give him free reign up until the deadline and showcase him... why? He loses value

whats the alternative? TP/Mills playing up until the deadline

we have no choice.....he needs to start and its sink or swim

[tholdren]

whats the alternative? TP/Mills playing up until the deadline

we have no choice.....he needs to start and its sink or swim

Hes lost value since the beginning of the sesson. Spurs should have buried him and used youth as an excuse. Then traded.

[Ice009]

If you listened to me and traded him before free agency and Summer league, I think his value back then would have been much higher. Almost everyone here DID NOT want to trade him at all.

[Gagnrath]

I see flashes of good in the guy and he has the physical tools to be special indeed. What kills me is that he hasn't really shown consistent improvement in any aspect. I am not ready to give up on him but I do want to see him go to the Austin team, I don't think that starting him here at this point is the right move. When he is challenged he goes back to his bad habits. Having a place where he can be better able to build good habits is more important.

[duncan2k5]

Like I’ve said before I’m fine with Murray starting. AT some point Pop had to do it since the offense never improved enough with Mills/TP.

But people acting like this is some automatic good thing are crazy to me. Is there potential? Of course. But Murray being better than tp/mills does not mean he’s been good. He hasn’t. He’s graded out as a non-starter level player so far.

Let’s hope it works and Murray makes some serious gains on offense.

he has elite defensive potential, is good on fast breaks, especially as a result of elite guard rebounding...he just needs to open up his scoring more to become a threat...this will make things easier for him when it comes to passing the ball

[duncan2k5]

what's funny is that NO ONE would have said Vic Oladipo should be a starting PG for ANY team...the arguments against Murray sound like the same ones ppl had for Oladipo...ppl laughed at the Paul George trade...sometimes when you show confidence in a person and put them in the right environment, they show who they are meant to be...Murrray is much younger than Vic, so he has time to grow, but we havent been treating him right as a franchise...benched last year to end the season even after coming back from injury (didnt play a single game to finish the season)...thrust into the playoff lions den after a rookie season where he had VERY inconsistent minutes...benched during summer league...benched couple games into the season, and got less minutes than other players who played worse, or had horrendous stretches in games, yet gon consistent roles and minutes...we have shown a lot of disrespect and inconsistent roles to a 20/21 year old pg...of COURSE he is gonna have inconsistent performances...hopefully Pop isnt wishy washy and leaves him as the starter...we KNOW we wont win shit with Tony starting this year, so why not make a change and live with the results?

[Brazil]

My dude Brazil (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14466) warming up that sig. :lol

u should have yours already tbh... :lol

[Rocalcio]

No.

Check out what he does here in Europe, he's the best player and his passing is amazing.

[TD 21]

You have a very good point with Denver. They are desperate and possibly worse when it comes to PG play. They got Millsap over the summer so one knows that the FO is at least serious about trying to improve their roster and I also read at some point they wanted to take advantage of Jokic's last few cheap season (or seasons?)... anyways, I would not rule them out. They have assets and have pulled off some weird deals for Lyles and Plumlee.

Upon review, Walker and Williams for Faried, Chandler, Barton, Mudiay doesn't work. Swap Batum for Williams and it does.

Don't know if Nuggets would take the Batum albatross, but they could use an SF, especially if Chandler is being traded. Even if they would, the sticking point could be their wanting another asset to do so and Hornets balking.

On the one hand, Nuggets are struggling and straddling a playoff spot. On the other hand, Murray is starting to "pop". Granted, he's more SG than PG, but with Harris entrenched at SG, do they want to turn him into a 6th man? Rockets make it work with Gordon, but he's not an upcoming player, Paul requires minute management at this point and Harden, unlike Harris, has enough size to guard plenty of SF's.

[DAF86]

The starter

[dabom]

The starter

:lol


That's a good one. :lol

[dabom]

:wow


Always on point. :lol

[Chinook]

Hell of a game, but he also had a great game against Cleveland last year. He's gotta continue this, and the Spurs have to figure out their guard rotation going forward. Even if Pop is content with Parker/Mills/Manu off the bench, it still leaves a question of what to do with Forbes.

[daslicer]

Hell of a game, but he also had a great game against Cleveland last year. He's gotta continue this, and the Spurs have to figure out their guard rotation going forward. Even if Pop is content with Parker/Mills/Manu off the bench, it still leaves a question of what to do with Forbes.

Agreed and the Cavs are one of the worst defensive teams in the league. Hopefully he can build off of this game.

[Stabula]

Liked what I saw from Tony and Dejounte tonight

[ElNono]

OP one of the most knowledgeable posters in this site, tbh...

[Mr. Body]

Had a great game against Cleveland last year, and Isaiah Thomas fucking sucks right now. Murray still has a long way to go, but he looks much more under control than he did earlier in the season.

[dabom]

OP one of the most knowledgeable posters in this site, tbh...

It's hard being at the top. :tu

[tholdren]

It's hard being at the top. :tu

Pg w more tos than assists against one of the worst defensive teams in the league... wow

[SAGirl]

Hell of a game, but he also had a great game against Cleveland last year. He's gotta continue this, and the Spurs have to figure out their guard rotation going forward. Even if Pop is content with Parker/Mills/Manu off the bench, it still leaves a question of what to do with Forbes.
and Kyle...

Dejounte is going to keep his spot. His upside is tantalizing, can't be ignored. They really should trade Mills tbh. I know some fans don't want to hear it and are tired of it. Doubt he's traded unless they really need to at some point like they traded Diaw and Tiago at some point, bc Spurs moved on.

[dabom]

and Kyle...

Dejounte is going to keep his spot. His upside is tantalizing, can't be ignored. They really should trade Mills tbh. I know some fans don't want to hear it and are tired of it. Doubt he's traded unless they really need to at some point like they traded Diaw and Tiago at some point, bc Spurs moved on.

Remember I told you long time ago that you can ask for basketball tips.

Patty isn't getting traded. :lol

[BatManu20]

956013902025797633

[SAGirl]

It should be highlighted the Cavs are horrible, all of Danny, Kyle and Davis had dunks tonight... most of Dejounte's buckets were hustle plays ... took advantage of I.Thomas in every way. just some perspective

[tholdren]

It should be highlighted the Cavs are horrible, all of Danny, Kyle and Davis had dunks tonight... most of Dejounte's buckets were hustle plays ... took advantage of I.Thomas in every way. just some perspective

Duh

[MaNu4Tres]

Hell of a game, but he also had a great game against Cleveland last year. He's gotta continue this, and the Spurs have to figure out their guard rotation going forward. Even if Pop is content with Parker/Mills/Manu off the bench, it still leaves a question of what to do with Forbes.


Don't forget Kyle and Rudy when Kawhi gets back.

Do you sit Mills to play Rudy at 4, Kyle at the back up 3, Manu at back up 2?

If so, why not just have Forbes, Paul play the insurance role for pennies, instead of paying 11-12 mil for it?

Moving forward, since TP probably getting 1+1 deal, and with White ready for a role as the back up SG, why allocate that much $ to an expendable piece? Not to mention, say DeJounte starts earning 30-33 minutes a night by next year? Then the back up minutes decrease even more. Sure it's nice to have depth, but spending 12 million on 3rd string depth is kind of ridiculous.

[duncan2k5]

Trade Forbes... He is a dime a dozen and isn't a game changer for us

[BatManu20]

956208205557850117

[DAF86]

956208205557850117

He didn't have 7 assists.

[dabom]

Steals

[Ice009]

He didn't have 7 assists.

It's obviously steals otherwise if it were assists, that stat line would have been done thousands of times with assists.

[rjv]

murray played lights out with his boy lebron in town. seriously though, murray's contributions are so well-rounded, one has to feel positive about his potential once he can get some consistency on his shot.

[BillMc]

I wonder if White can play at all? I guess we'll find out next year. Maybe.

[SAGirl]

I wonder if White can play at all? I guess we'll find out next year. Maybe.
I think for sure he gets his opportunity next season. We really haven't seen enough of him... for the few minutes he has gotten he has been impressive defensively which is rare to see for a rookie.

I think he could maybe, perhaps, do a Danny Green impersonation of sorts if Danny doesn't come back...

Speciallyif the Spurs were to go after a pricy FA (which I don't expect personally, but if...) they will have to cut corners in the roleplayer department.

[Stabula]

White looks straight up retarded tbh

[tholdren]

murray played lights out with his boy lebron in town. seriously though, murray's contributions are so well-rounded, one has to feel positive about his potential once he can get some consistency on his shot. wut

[pgardn]

Ball handling under pressure...

Consistent defensive effort.

Passes not telegraphed.

Big list. Eventually, running a cohesive unit.

Time and patience required with the realization of how difficult it is to play PG in the NBA.
It might not work out. A game against his big brother while feasting on I. Thomas and we get a bit excited with a very athletic kid.

[tholdren]

Ball handling under pressure...

Consistent defensive effort.

Passes not telegraphed.

Big list. Eventually, running a cohesive unit.

Time and patience required with the realization of how difficult it is to play PG in the NBA.
It might not work out. A game against his big brother while feasting on I. Thomas and we get a bit excited with a very athletic kid.

I agree with this, but would say the pg spot is probably the easiest to play for skilled pgs. However, the focus of the game is entertainment rather than skill, so pgs are coming in as sgs with limited skill set rather than all around game.

[spurraider21]

OP one of the most knowledgeable posters in this site, tbh...
http://i.imgur.com/vDxJOf6.gif

[weeks]

real good showing against the Kings. hope he can put together some consistently good games. for all his flaws he's still the best choice at PG. i have zero faith in patty and parker looks closer to retirement than manu.

[tholdren]

real good showing against the Kings. hope he can put together some consistently good games. for all his flaws he's still the best choice at PG. i have zero faith in patty and parker looks closer to retirement than manu.

Tp assist same as murray assists... murray had a good night, but two things still happened. Fox outplayed him. And he only looks decent against terrible teams that dont defend. That is not skill... he needs to put up that statline every game and work on his court vision. He played a nice game.

[ElNono]

http://i.imgur.com/vDxJOf6.gif

:lol

[duncan2k5]

Tp assist same as murray assists... murray had a good night, but two things still happened. Fox outplayed him. And he only looks decent against terrible teams that dont defend. That is not skill... he needs to put up that statline every game and work on his court vision. He played a nice game.

the funny thing is...if murray and fox's stats were reersed, u would have brought up the fact that murray would have had turnovers, and a worse plus minus, AND lost the game...Fox is a top 3 draft pick...he is SUPPOSED to outplay murray...

[dabom]

Saw this on ESPN.

Dejounte Murray (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3907497/dejounte-murray) has taken over as the Spurs' starting point guard and is averaging 13.5 points, 5.3 assists and 8.3 rebounds per game in his past four starts. Before a move to a bench role, Tony Parker (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/1015/tony-parker) had started 587 consecutive regular-season and playoff games. -- Jose De Leon

:wow

[DAF86]

Over/under on him getting a triple double before the season ends?

[dabom]

Over/under on him getting a triple double before the season ends?

I'd take the zero. He doesn't handle the ball long enough. 6 assist per game would be ideal.

[DAF86]

I'd take the zero. He doesn't handle the ball long enough. 6 assist per game would be ideal.

But he will have a couple of games where everything goes right and has the chance to pull it off, imho.

[spurraider21]

well... leading up to the trade deadline, murray is out there making a case that he can handle starting duties. if PATFO needed him to show something to prevent them from pulling the trigger, he has.

[spurraider21]

But he will have a couple of games where everything goes right and has the chance to pull it off, imho.
eh. his career high in assists right now is 7. sure maybe he'll have a game where he hits 10, but the odds of that coming in the same game where he also puts up 10/10 in the other stats? even more slim. there's only 30 games left in the season.

[objective]

Over/under on him getting a triple double before the season ends?

I'd say multiple but the big problem for him is Pop keeping an artificial ceiling on his minutes to gift time to Parker and Mills.

He's only played 30+ minutes twice all season. Parker is the respected elder who has done some good against second units and Mills is paid way too much money to only play 18 minutes a game. Mills has only played 3 times under 18 minutes and has 2 games over 30 himself.

[duncan2k5]

Pop limiting his minutes will be the only thing stopping him from a triple double...he can easily get 10+ rebounds and points if given 35+ minutes...and if there is a night where we are hitting on all cylinders, triple double easily

[SAGirl]

Over/under on him getting a triple double before the season ends?
Going to be optimistic and I think he does it.

It’s a gamble for sure but Pau has had one and Kyle had a points/assists double double so it’s possible with sufficient minutes played and just a magical night where guys make shots off your passes...

If Kiwiw gets healthy it’s unlikely although just passing to Kiwi is a way to get assists. Dude is young can’t tell how much or quickly he keeps improving.

Also, I just feel like being optimistic about something this season... and I don’t care about the 50 win streak...

[SAGirl]

I'd say multiple but the big problem for him is Pop keeping an artificial ceiling on his minutes to gift time to Parker and Mills.

He's only played 30+ minutes twice all season. Parker is the respected elder who has done some good against second units and Mills is paid way too much money to only play 18 minutes a game. Mills has only played 3 times under 18 minutes and has 2 games over 30 himself.
That’s true. Minutes do limit opportunities

[Seventyniner]

Over/under on him getting a triple double before the season ends?

Certainly possible but not too likely, especially when Kawhi returns. I'll say 10% chance.

[tholdren]

the funny thing is...if murray and fox's stats were reersed, u would have brought up the fact that murray would have had turnovers, and a worse plus minus, AND lost the game...Fox is a top 3 draft pick...he is SUPPOSED to outplay murray...

Only idiots use plus minus. So youre wrong again.

[cjw]

the funny thing is...if murray and fox's stats were reersed, u would have brought up the fact that murray would have had turnovers, and a worse plus minus, AND lost the game...Fox is a top 3 draft pick...he is SUPPOSED to outplay murray...

Exactly. Fox doesn’t shoot 6 for 6 from deep most nights but people take him outperforming from deep by 9-12 points as a reason to jump to conclusions about Murray. Seriously...

While we’re playing this game, how about all those boards Fox grabbed? All zero of them. Also 2x the assists. And if all we do is care about shooting, Murray didn’t miss. And Forbes shot almost as well as Fox.

[rjv]

i've been pleased with his progression since the move to the starting unit; there is nothing better for a younger player than not having to look over your shoulder.

[BatManu20]

958512691487952896

[DAF86]

958512691487952896

Most of the things in here are bullshit though. Murray does look scared to shoot sometimes, and tonight he was doing a lot of tentative side to side and not much "going downhill", tbh.

That's my only problem with Murray right now: he needs to start being more aggressive.

[weeks]

I want to see Murray attack the rim more. He spent way too much time on the perimeter. I'm okay with an above-average TO rate if he would put more pressure on the defense with his speed and length, draw some fouls.

[tholdren]

Lol spurstalk

[Chinook]

Pop's going to do the right thing and give Murray at least until the ASB to evaluate him, but so far, it hasn't been the jumpstart we were hoping for. His offensive problems are obvious, and he's not nearly as good defensively as his stats suggest (to the point that it almost calls the whole system into question). He looks like he'll be a fine NBA player, but he's not there yet. Not all that close at all.

[TheGreatYacht]

Starting lineups continue to put the team on devastating holes that we don't have enough talent to overcome throughout the game.

I like the kid, but having him, Fathead, Green, and Bertans start together is where basketball and shooting goes to die

[MaNu4Tres]

Pop's going to do the right thing and give Murray at least until the ASB to evaluate him, but so far, it hasn't been the jumpstart we were hoping for. His offensive problems are obvious, and he's not nearly as good defensively as his stats suggest (to the point that it almost calls the whole system into question). He looks like he'll be a fine NBA player, but he's not there yet. Not all that close at all.

One player moving into the SL isn't going to jump start anything unless they're a star. Are you expecting him to be that?

This team has too many one dimensional role players..just look at the point differential..the lowest since 96/97.

Murray actually grades out 21st in RPM out of all PGs.

Patty 49th..

Tony 81st.

Murray is the best option right now, but he's not the star to pick up the whole team.

[BatManu20]

959991188114743296

[Chinook]

One player moving into the SL isn't going to jump start anything unless they're a star. Are you expecting him to be that?

This team has too many one dimensional role players..just look at the point differential..the lowest since 96/97.

Murray actually grades out 21st in RPM out of all PGs.

Patty 49th..

Tony 81st.

Murray is the best option right now, but he's not the star to pick up the whole team.

I didn't expect him to do that. I also didn't expect him to start. Pop is clearly looking for anything he can do get the team back on track mentally.

My point about him though is that the gap between how good his stats suggest he is and how good he actually is is so wide that it almost breaks the system.

[tholdren]

One player moving into the SL isn't going to jump start anything unless they're a star. Are you expecting him to be that?

This team has too many one dimensional role players..just look at the point differential..the lowest since 96/97.

Murray actually grades out 21st in RPM out of all PGs.

Patty 49th..

Tony 81st.

Murray is the best option right now, but he's not the star to pick up the whole team.

Rpm doesnt mean anything. Get that through your thick skull

[tholdren]

959991188114743296

Wow. Being awesome and making your team look like dog shit. Stupid stat

[cd98]

959991188114743296

The way we shoot, there’s a lot of rebounds to grab.

[SAGirl]

I didn't expect him to do that. I also didn't expect him to start. Pop is clearly looking for anything he can do get the team back on track mentally.

My point about him though is that the gap between how good his stats suggest he is and how good he actually is is so wide that it almost breaks the system.
There is no choice... when Patty or Tony aren't clearly better, they did the right thing to see what they have in him.

That was exactly what Pop said when they promoted him to starter "again," that he's a young talent and they intended to find out exactly what they have there.

Part of my comment about Pop being between a "rock and a hard place" is that they have an identity crisis between a team that wants to contend and win right now and thus have signed up really really really old WIN NOW players, while at the same time being a team that needs to develop. They need young talent period. But they are half assing it bc if they are developing they aren't doing it right. You know what I mean? and their win now players aren't clearly enough which is why Pop has to develop.

see the rock and the hard place?

[duncan2k5]

Murray is the best choice... Let's not pretend as if we were good with patty and Tony starting... Our worse scoring game was with Tony a starter... We scored enough to win... One of our issues is that our big are soft defensively, and are horrible rebounders

[MaNu4Tres]

I didn't expect him to do that. I also didn't expect him to start. Pop is clearly looking for anything he can do get the team back on track mentally.

My point about him though is that the gap between how good his stats suggest he is and how good he actually is is so wide that it almost breaks the system.

Well I'm glad you weren't expecting that like your post implied

And not everyone goes by the Chinook gospel. Your player analysis is just that -- your player analysis. I.E -- I never agreed with your gospel when you said Simmons wasn't a NBA player or when you were adamant about how the Spurs should sign Sullinger to a 4 year deal 2 summers ago. And this is just another one of your analysis that I disagree with.

I think Murray is as good as his stats suggest -- especially defensively and he's getting better and better on the offensive end. His stats since coming into the starting lineup: 10 points 9 boards 5 assists on 47% shooting.

Here are a few other stats:

When Dejounte Murray is on the court, Spurs give up 96pp/100 (1st defensively in NBA)

When Dejounte Murray is off the court, Spurs give up 104.8pp/100 (12th defensively in NBA)

Offensively, Spurs are only 2.7pp/100 worse with Dejounte, and remember they are 8.8pp/100 better defensively.

Spurs are a significantly better team defensively with Murray on the floor compared to when Tony or Mills are on the floor. And on offense, the separation gap isn't nearly as wide between DeJounte and TP/Mills.

People say defense isn't the problem overall because Spurs have the 2nd best D. These same people are oblivious to context, as a large part of that ranking is because of Murray playing and on the floor, not Tony or Patty.

The reason why the gap isn't as big on the offensive end is because the volume of offensive possessions for TP, Mills, DeJounte isn't as significant as most PGs in the NBA. They are all utilized off ball just as much as they are in PnR. And recently, if you watch the games, when Murray goes to the weakside of the floor he floats to the dunker spot, where he can have an advantage on the offensive glass or he can be the beneficiary of a drive and dish. Not to mention DeJounte making his defender (usually a PG) the interior defender to strong side penetration. As this all happens, the other big, whether it be Pau or Bertans -- they float to the 3 point line to still provide the spacing.

Is DeJounte a finished product? Not even close. Does he have work to do still? Of course he does. But as of now, he's clearly the best option for the Spurs as he's already made the leap over Tony and Patty and he's only 21 years old. His dribbling has gotten better, he's been finishing better lately, he works his ass off defensively and it shows in his advance stats as he's number 1 in DRPM for PGs in the NBA and how he's top 5 in the NBA in overall DRTG.'

Murray has been one of the few bright spots this season. He could have taken a nosedive into his sophomore season but he's progressed pretty nicely and he has improved. He's made the leap over Tony and Patty and Spurs desperately needed this positive sign as he is their best prospect in the pipeline.

[sasaint]

Who was primarily responsible for guarding Rubio last night?

[r0drig0lac]

Rpm doesnt mean anything. Get that through your thick skull

advanced stats >>> watch games = logic spurstalk

[MaNu4Tres]

Who was primarily responsible for guarding Rubio last night?

Did you watch the game? How did Rubio score most of his points with Murray on him?

If you watched the game, Murray was going under on the screens and Rubio was hitting all of his outside shots from 17-26 feet out -- something he hasn't been able to do his whole career. If you don't believe me, go back and read the play by play. On top of that Rubio played 13 extra minutes with Murray not on the floor.

Variance is part of the game.

[tholdren]

Did you watch the game? How did Rubio score most of his points with Murray on him?

If you watched the game, Murray was going under on the screens and Rubio was hitting all of his outside shots from 17-26 feet out -- something he hasn't been able to do his whole career. If you don't believe me, go back and read the play by play. On top of that Rubio played 13 extra minutes with Murray not on the floor.

Variance is part of the game.

So youre saying that since murray is so great at d, he let a shitty shooter like rubio get imto a rhythm and instead of fixing his error he kept doing the same thing?

Murray is garbage. Hes the poorest mans verion of westbrook flailing through the lane but then he avoids all cantact and throws up a terrible percentage shot.

Can he rebound. Yep. But are 7 rebounds a game really worth his overrated d, his inability to score, pass or run any type of controlled offense?

Destroyed by ball and rubio. And he has literally gone coast to coast where the end result was him dribbling it out of bounds. Will he get better, yep. The nba talent is so bad this guy is in the league. Kind of a joke

[sasaint]

Did you watch the game? How did Rubio score most of his points with Murray on him?

If you watched the game, Murray was going under on the screens and Rubio was hitting all of his outside shots from 17-26 feet out -- something he hasn't been able to do his whole career. If you don't believe me, go back and read the play by play. On top of that Rubio played 13 extra minutes with Murray not on the floor.

Variance is part of the game.

I was just pointing out that Rubio was guarded for the most part by Murray. He didn't adjust very well. And his D stats took a big hit last night.

[MaNu4Tres]

I was just pointing out that Rubio was guarded for the most part by Murray. He didn't adjust very well. And his D stats took a big hit last night.

Can't be too results oriented over one game. You typically want to turn Rubio into a jump shooter 10 times out of 10.

Sounds like the fish I'd play in online poker back in the day. Running so well over a small sample of 50-100 hands, in that spot heads up over the long run they get crushed ( Like Rubio if all he does is take 17-26 foot jumpers ).

One game doesn't really effect his D stats for the year.

[sasaint]

Can't be too results oriented over one game. You typically want to turn Rubio into a jump shooter 10 times out of 10.

Sounds like the fish I'd play in online poker back in the day. Running so well over a small sample of 50-100 hands, in that spot heads up over the long run they get crushed ( Like Rubio if all he does is take 17-26 foot jumpers ).

One game doesn't really effect his D stats for the year.

Yes, you typically want to turn Rubio into a jumpshooter. But within a single game when he is going off like Curry, you have to adjust.

[Chinook]

Well I'm glad you weren't expecting that like your post implied.

I didn't imply anything about my own expectations. I said that we were hoping for a jumpstart. If you weren't, I don't know what to tell you. Getting rid of Jefferson did not make the team better because of much on the court. But it totally jumpstarted the other players. In that same way, I think Pop was looking for a spark to break the malaise his guys are in. It didn't work. I didn't expect it to, but of course, I was hopeful.


And not everyone goes by the Chinook gospel. Your player analysis is just that -- your player analysis. I.E -- I never agreed with your gospel when you said Simmons wasn't a NBA player or when you were adamant about how the Spurs should sign Sullinger to a 4 year deal 2 summers ago. And this is just another one of your analysis that I disagree with.

I love the ad homenims you tossed in here while trying to seem placating. Outside of those, this line pretty much means nothing. Obviously, we're giving opinions here. That's never been forgotten, so I don't know why you'd restate that.

I don't think Murray is as good as the stats say. I think he is a mediocre one-on-one defender who gets schooled by any competent guard save Lowry the first time. He can't contest without fouling. He's so tall that he shouldn't leave his feet or reach nearly as much as he does. Guys would have a hard time shooting over him straight up. Offensively, he's not as big of a disaster with the ball as he was the start the season, but he's completely dependent on his inconsistent shooting. He's a bad streaky shooter. When his floaters go in, he looks great. But when he's missing layups and tip-ins, he looks really bad. His lack of spacing has totally hurt the offense. Way too many times, he gets the pass out to the perimeter and passes up an open shot just to try to make another play. He can't be such a bad shooter that he can't can shots at at least a 30-percent rate. That's not good enough, but at least he would be doing more than he currently does.

Rebounding is by far the biggest misnomer for him. The team is just not built for a PG to go for some many offensive boards. He needs to be above the FTLE to help in transition. That's especially true in the current SL Kyle and Pau. Him being down there automatically means at least one of the two primary break defenders will be a slow-footed guy. It's not likely to get any better when Kawhi comes back, because not only is Leonard not particularly strong in transition D as it is, but (and this probably feeds into the last point quite a bit), he also spends a significant portion of his time below the FTLE. For everything to work, Pau has to sit for a legit wing (as in not a combo-forward). Otherwise, the D will remain as exploitable as it's been all season.

Does any of that mean that I think Murray is a bad player? No. I think he's learning to play the right way and is a better play-maker than a lot of folks here are willing to admit. And there were times last night when DeJounte, Danny and Kyle were snatching all these passes from Utah, and you could see what the team could become defensively if everything works out. But the stats make it seem like PG isn't a problem for the team, and it very clearly is. Right now, Murray is not good enough to lock down that position. By far, the best play on action outside of a roster move is for Pop to just hope someone is playing well when the time comes. Tony and Patty have spurts when they are significantly more impactful than Murray, whether the stats detect it or not. There's something to be said about really being able to run an offense, and Patty is the only guy on the team who can seriously get shots off curls. The team needs that more than anything else right now (other than Kawhi coming back). They need Tony to give them a series like Memphis and for Patty to give the bench some points. It's just the way it is, and no amount of plus-minuses and on-offs will change that.

[SAGirl]

Who was primarily responsible for guarding Rubio last night?
Dejounte absolutely got lit up

[SAGirl]

I was just pointing out that Rubio was guarded for the most part by Murray. He didn't adjust very well. And his D stats took a big hit last night.
They did... and I figure it was bound to happen as there is variance from game to game and he's still learning but it's a great point.

Someone just reminded me Lonzo Ball of all ppl also lit him up and took him apart.

His best asset is the rebounding which is really important for defense, and he does have games his activity defensively is evident, he blocks a shot here or there that Tony or Patty would never be able to, or his length helps him to get a steal here or there too. When he switches, he's been able to hold his own better than Tony or Patty... but he still has a lot to learn.

[ceds]

They did... and I figure it was bound to happen as there is variance from game to game and he's still learning but it's a great point.

Someone just reminded me Lonzo Ball of all ppl also lit him up and took him apart.

His best asset is the rebounding which is really important for defense, and he does have games his activity defensively is evident, he blocks a shot here or there that Tony or Patty would never be able to, or his length helps him to get a steal here or there too. When he switches, he's been able to hold his own better than Tony or Patty... but he still has a lot to learn.

Lonzo should take him apart...He's 6'6, a high lottery pick with allot of pressure to perform.

As i said before the season started in my projection best case is that he turns into a rebounding mini kawhi on D + score when he offense breaks down.

Expecting him to be a point guard this early is asking way to much so its not a surprise to see the offense runs through our big men.

What we now know is that we have an athlete at pg who sticks his nose in for boards has shown flashes of being an elite defender.

After summer league this board had written him off as a player so It's good to see him put up numbers now that he has been given a chance to start.

[Hoops Czar]

He can't run an NBA offense.

[SAGirl]

Lonzo should take him apart...He's 6'6, a high lottery pick with allot of pressure to perform.

As i said before the season started in my projection best case is that he turns into a rebounding mini kawhi on D + score when he offense breaks down.

Expecting him to be a point guard this early is asking way to much so its not a surprise to see the offense runs through our big men.

What we now know is that we have an athlete at pg who sticks his nose in for boards has shown flashes of being an elite defender.

After summer league this board had written him off as a player so It's good to see him put up numbers now that he has been given a chance to start.
Lonzo might be a lottery pick but once you are in the league where you were picked doesn't matter. Lonzo is still a rookie and he has struggled offensively... Dejounte let him take all kinds of open shot and the dude got hot. He's been shooting terrible but you can't leave most NBA players wide open. He did a poor job on Rubio too. Didn't adjust at all to the guy making jumpers...

[ceds]

So you would rather DJ instead of Lonzo?

One is a real pg (who cant shoot) whilst DJ is basically an athlete

[objective]

If anything, he should be playing more.

He's not a microwave who has finished skills and can do his thing in any amount of minutes.

He's a developing player. He needs more time to find his footing, to execute, to improve.

He needs 30+ minutes and longer stretches. No more pulls at the 6 minute mark.

[SAGirl]

So you would rather DJ instead of Lonzo?

One is a real pg (who cant shoot) whilst DJ is basically an athlete
nah... I am just saying Dijon isn't flawless. I already stated they have to live through and develop him, specially bc they have decided to stand pat and not improve... they just paid higher deals to guys who already couldn't get it done.

[DPG21920]

What I don’t get is how people, even using stats, can’t see how both of these statements are true:

Murray is the best PG option available on SA right now. Murray has not been very good.

He’s grading out as a sub-starter level player and he is such a drain on offense that any good he does is pretty much negated. He’s a large reason the offense struggles for reasons beyond the stats and I have already given up hope that he will be a truly top-level player.

He’s a poor offensive version of George Hill.

[SAGirl]

If anything, he should be playing more.

He's not a microwave who has finished skills and can do his thing in any amount of minutes.

He's a developing player. He needs more time to find his footing, to execute, to improve.

He needs 30+ minutes and longer stretches. No more pulls at the 6 minute mark.
I have thought that Pop is between a rock and a hard place and things like this are why....

You are going to lose games at times developing players who aren't ready. Only through trial and error, looking at film afterward etc... trying to learn through experience can they get better in game situations. It's going to cost you games at times... They don't want to really commit to something like that and are half assing it.

[ceds]

If anything, he should be playing more.

He's not a microwave who has finished skills and can do his thing in any amount of minutes.

He's a developing player. He needs more time to find his footing, to execute, to improve.

He needs 30+ minutes and longer stretches. No more pulls at the 6 minute mark.

Agree with this. The quick hook needs to stop

He needs 30+ mins and freedom to play his game until the trade deadline or a kawhi return.

[MaNu4Tres]

I have thought that Pop is between a rock and a hard place and things like this are why....

You are going to lose games at times developing players who aren't ready. Only through trial and error, looking at film afterward etc... trying to learn through experience can they get better in game situations. It's going to cost you games at times... They don't want to really commit to something like that and are half assing it.

Spurs really have no choice, because their vets aren't good enough to win without Kawhi either. Parker and Mills cost the Spurs more when they are on the floor overall and stats back that up on the season. Yes they can have good games once every 4 or 5 games. Yes they can be pretty solid in bringing the ball up, playing their roles within the offense, but fact of the matter is ....they aren't good anymore consistently and make mistakes along the way too -- while being huge negatives on the defense end every game. ( Spurs rank 12th in D when they are on the floor).

In regards to the point guard or combo guard position, the gap between the young players and the vets is gone. And most of their young players have proven to be ready to be contributors. As for the minute distribution at point guard -- in all honesty, the reason why Pop probably isn't increasing DeJounte's minutes is because that would mean eliminating a lot of Parker or Mills' role that they've had for the past 4 years. He's not going to do that to either one at the drop of a dime, unless DeJounte shows that he is a star right now ( and he's not -- he's just a solid role player right now). Manu, Danny & Pau are the only vets on the team who still hold a gap between them and their back ups. (Bertans and Kyle can be more effective than Pau at times but that's match up dependent. Joffrey is terrible, Manu still effective on both ends w/ days off, and Green is still himself when he's not hobbling.)

I'm not expecting Murray to be a top 10 PG in the league offensively, or to be THE difference maker like some are judging him on by making him the scapegoat of the problems on offense. Some people here are basically saying since he's not great on offense -- he's not the answer. Long term he may not be the answer, but as of right now, with what the Spurs have -- he 100% is the answer and he's only 21 with a lot of room to still grow. Until Spurs get that player, give him some time -- he's already showed improvements in handling the ball in the half court finding the open man. Not to mention, he's a huge positive in all different areas on the defensive end that Parker and Mills are terrible at (which makes him a positive more often than not-- at least more so than TP and Patty and stats back that up again).

The problems on offense are more than the PG position. They just need a really good creator that can handle heavy volume from any perimeter position. It doesn't have to be a labeled "PG".

Parker isn't the answer and hasn't been the answer for years outside of his flash in a pan Grizzlies series. Clearly Mills has never been that answer either.

Spurs are better with Murray on the floor -- stats back that up. If you disagree, I'm sorry and I'm sorry there's no evidence for your opinion to hold that much weight.

[BackHome]

If we had a SG who could handle the ball and create his own offense and be able to shoot that would have a huge impact on the team.

[r0drig0lac]

If we had a SG who could handle the ball and create his own offense and be able to shoot that would have a huge impact on the team.

yep, a type Tyreke Evans, Lance Stephenson or Lou Williams

[Seventyniner]

"Murray is a beast on defense and on the boards, who cares if he sucks on offense? Play him more!"
"Anderson sucks on offense, who cares if he's a beast on defense and on the boards? Bench him forever!"

[Spurs da champs]

Anderson, is what you mentioned but man he can make plays for himself and others, yet he makes Borris look Westbrook aggressive. Dude is way too passive.

[SAGirl]

"Murray is a beast on defense and on the boards, who cares if he sucks on offense? Play him more!"
"Anderson sucks on offense, who cares if he's a beast on defense and on the boards? Bench him forever!"
That is spurstalk ^

There is an absolute double standard in this forum when it comes to Anderson... which is why I initially got so vocal about him.

Now, I just let guys troll to their hearts content most of the time bc there is no point in reasoning with trolls.

Murray has a lot of work to do offensively and I hope he improves (same as I hope for Kyle, and others).

[SAGirl]

Anderson, is what you mentioned but man he can make plays for himself and others, yet he makes Borris look Westbrook aggressive. Dude is way too passive.
I think what is frustrating about him is that he can make plays when he has in his mind that he wants to. Still should continue to get coached. Pop at times calls plays for him if he's being passive out there and frankly most of the time he makes good decisions to go for his own basket or to pass if he finds someone. Just doesn't happen enough.

I also think he's a poor spot up player. Just has a slow shot and doesn't have the mind to be sniping. He's better off cutting and setting screens than spotting up... and I am not making excuses for him. He has to shoot if he's open.

[dabom]

"Murray is a beast on defense and on the boards, who cares if he sucks on offense? Play him more!"
"Anderson sucks on offense, who cares if he's a beast on defense and on the boards? Bench him forever!"

Fathead has zero lateral quickness you dumb fuck. I hope he doesn't get any meaningful minutes in the POs. Don't want another OKC incident. :lol

If Murray can become even decent on offense, we become a great team again.

[dabom]

Those minutes in the playoffs with porker done were legit PO minutes.

[TheGreatYacht]

Spurs are 11-11 in the games Murray has started, tbh. Not surprised he's been unlucky considering everything faggot OP touches turns into a pile of dried up dog shit

[dabom]

Pinked. :lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

.500 record and even the wins have came against straight bottom feeders. Tonight's game against the worst team in the league (with no Booker) should put him above

[tholdren]

.500 record and even the wins have came against straight bottom feeders. Tonight's game against the worst team in the league (with no Booker) should put him above

He sucks. Ive already addressed this

[TheGreatYacht]

Murray-Mills might be the worst starting backcourt off all time, and it's no coincidence that both are masturbation material for OP. :lol

[TimDunkem]

Should've taken Brogdon. And the guy WANTED to be here.

Smh But, yeah, let's draft a guy who might be good when Kawhi is 31 while guys like Parker, Manu, Mills, Gasol, and Green continue their steady decline with no other adequate replacements in sight.

[tholdren]

Should've taken Brogdon. And the guy WANTED to be here.

Smh But, yeah, let's draft a guy who might be good when Kawhi is 31 while guys like Parker, Manu, Mills, Gasol, and Green continue their steady decline with no other adequate replacements in sight.

Why not just draft an 8th grader? Essentially the spurs drafted someone who doesnt understand how to get better. See the insta about all the shit work that paid zero dividends for spurs. Trade for a meatball sub

[TD 21]

Should've taken Brogdon. And the guy WANTED to be here.

Smh But, yeah, let's draft a guy who might be good when Kawhi is 31 while guys like Parker, Manu, Mills, Gasol, and Green continue their steady decline with no other adequate replacements in sight.

Murray always made more sense than Brogdon because the Spurs were and remain in a situation where they need to swing for the fence. Besides, White looks like a Brogdon type anyway, which is why I don't understand why Murray has been gifted a role while he remains buried.

Sure, Murray times poorly with the majority of the core, but it's not like Brogdon was the missing piece to a championship anyway.

[TimDunkem]

That's besides the point. Brogdon was a perfect fit. You don't need to swing for the fence if you simply fill in the right pieces.

As for White, he's grown on me, but now doesn't make much sense after the commitment to Mills, Murray, and the inevitable TP contract coming up.

The Spurs draft picks have been awful for years now.

[TimDunkem]

Honestly, I don't know how you can argue that a guy who really does nothing well makes more sense than someone who is solid on both ends, has a relatively high BBall IQ, and is clutch to boot.

[TD 21]

In the NBA, if the "right pieces" don't start with a certain level of star power in certain areas, the likes of which this team clearly doesn't possess, you have no chance at winning a championship.

White can play shooting guard on both sides of the ball. If Ginobili retires and these idiots lose Green and don't replace him, he'll be competing with Forbes for a rotation spot next season.

Murray looked the part and was hyped as the type of prospect who, if it all came together, could become a dynamic guard (Chad Ford and Ginobili have went so far as to claim All-Star potential).

[TimDunkem]

I think they were there last year. Now, after losing depth without adequately replacing it, and the continuing decline of so many pieces, Murray's poor fit has been even more noticable.

Despite my feelings on this, it doesn't matter all too much with all the other problems the Spurs have right now, one of them being what you just touched on with Green...God please don't talk about competing with Forbes for any rotation spot. That MF'er doesn't belong in the NBA period. Just the thought of White having to compete with him for anything makes my blood boil. :lol

[TD 21]

I hear ya, but still think they were right to prioritize what was widely regarded as the higher upside player (whether that's actually true or not is a different argument). It'll always be easier to replace role players than superstars and stars, especially when you regularly pick in the late 20s and are in San Antonio.

[tholdren]

Honestly, I don't know how you can argue that a guy who really does nothing well makes more sense than someone who is solid on both ends, has a relatively high BBall IQ, and is clutch to boot.

Who?

[TimDunkem]

Who?

Not Murray.

[tholdren]

Look, I’d be fine with Murray starting as he’s overall been the most impactful guard but it’s obvious Pop is not happy with the offense.

He knows they could probably win a few more games if Murray played, but he’s trying to figure out what to do with a struggling offense since he knows the defense is good no matter which PG is starting.

Murray is the worst offensive PG by a wide margin. So as Pop is figuring this offense out he’s not going to play as much. When will that change? I don’t know, but it’s not entirely surprising when you step back and look at what is wrong (the offense) and who has been particularly bad on that end (Murray).

Still true

[cd98]

Murray is still a bad point guard, but kudos to him for doing good basketball stuff. Honestly, I think half our players don’t really have a position and just play basketball. Spurs continuing transition to position less basketball.

[dabom]

OP :hat

[tholdren]

OP :hat

Yet manu won the game... sad

[dabom]

Having a 21% usage rate with a 46% TS is unacceptable in today's league, tbh..I'd like to see Parker benched as much as anybody, but it isn't going to happen, barring injury..especially not in favor of Dejounte Murray:lol

I understand homerism among sports fans, but his potential is so overrated here..there were posters calling him untouchable, last year:lol many posters criticized the front office for not acquiring Paul George or Jimmy Butler with their gold prospect in Murray, claiming he was a better piece than Victor Oladipo(when in reality, Sabonis as a standalone is a much better prospect than Murray) and Kris Dunn/Lavine..I used to like Murray's potential, as well, but that was in limited minutes..the more you watch him, the worse he looks..

Malcolm Brogdon has regressed following a great rookie season, but it would have been interesting to see him playing for Pop and this system, rather than the worst coach in the NBA..

My dude Harlem with the bads sometimes. :lol

I see this kids potential. Good just as planned.

[tholdren]

My dude Harlem with the bads sometimes. :lol

I see this kids potential. Good just as planned.

Watchin box scores

[HarlemHeat37]

My dude Harlem with the bads sometimes. :lol

I see this kids potential. Good just as planned.

I'm still not a Murray fan(he has severe flaws and his ceiling is limited without a jump shot), but good to see Pop finally benched Parker, obviously..I had no reason to believe he would ever bench him:lol

Murray is still a very poor offensive player, as I said in that post..I like how he's being developed, though, can't ask for more..

[tholdren]

I'm still not a Murray fan(he has severe flaws and his ceiling is limited without a jump shot), but good to see Pop finally benched Parker, obviously..I had no reason to believe he would ever bench him:lol

Murray is still a very poor offensive player, as I said in that post..I like how he's being developed, though, can't ask for more..

Sad

[TheGreatYacht]

This faggot better be included in any package that includes Gasol & Mills. He's such a Drunkford draft pick, man. That slug looking weirdo still thinks it's the 90's....

[tholdren]

My dude Harlem with the bads sometimes. :lol

I see this kids potential. Good just as planned.

Youre so dumb

[Walter Donovan]

Its quite sad actually. The Spurs had an alpha for a back up PG in CoJo and they turned him loose. He’d be starting if he was still on the team.

[Atl Spur]

White should be playing..........Tony is done and Forbes is a head case!

[HarlemHeat37]

Again, not a Murray fan, but the way Pop treats him is stupid..he benches him for any mistake, yet allows Forbes to stay on the floor after he gets torched every time his opponent touches the ball..

[TheGreatYacht]

Unfortunately moonface has to fall on his sword until the end. Had to open his donkey ass mouth about starting this bum the rest of the way "to see what we have"

[spursistan]

Wetting the bed in the playoffs so far.

Unfortunately it is hard to see him amounting to something in this league with this putrid offensive game of his.