Parker & Mills

[MaNu4Tres]

Worst PG duo in NBA going on year four now.

Kemba or bust.

Same problem since 2015.

[dabom]

Shut up faggot. :lmao

[SAGirl]

:toast
100% support.
I am preparing myself for "standing pat" bc loyalty, culture, etc. Plus the team is missing Kawhi, Rudy, etc. good ways to make an excuse.

In reality the team has had this problem for a while.

BTW: reality check for PATFO. This might be Manu's for real last season.

[MaNu4Tres]

Want Parker to retire.

Want Mills packaged for Kemba. Whatever it takes.

Get it done.

[SAGirl]

We may not necessarily hear any rumors if there was anything being worked out, but this summer there were rumors involving several Spurs players and things leaked. Two seasons ago there were rumors involving the Spurs being active with either Andre Miller or Kevin Martin... there was a buzz.
This season there is no buzz.

[MaNu4Tres]

With all this loyalty Mills crap...I still can't believe letting Avery walk, trading Bowen, willing to let David walk if C Webb agreed is all under Pop & RCs resume...

There was a time when they weren't soft.

[MaNu4Tres]

Funny how despite his flaws shooting & finishing, Murray is only PG on roster who is a + in RPM.

That says a lot about how bad Tony & Patty are on D. Doesn't matter what they can do on O, because at end of the day, opposing teams score more than the team does when these two 3 foot traffic cones are on the floor.

Apparently that's too hard to understand for some.

Criticize Murray all you want, but he's the most effective option Spurs have. Stats prove that.

[HarlemHeat37]

4Tres, bro, I hope your heart will be able to handle TP's 3-year deal this offseason:lol

[MaNu4Tres]

4Tres, bro, I hope your heart will be able to handle TP's 3-year deal this offseason:lol

Bro...he'll continue to be the worst starting PG in NBA all year ( like he has been for past 3 years), but show up for 2-3 games in round one before the playoff exit -- hitting open spot up jumpers. I can hear it now from the delusional idiots justifying the 2+1 deal this summer...

" He was just coasting..."

" Tony comes through when it matters .."

" One of clutchest PGs in the game.. "


:lol

[SAGirl]

you know what is worse right?
when Pop plays them together. He's unafraid to go there, or to play them next to Murray.

Also both could disappear in the playoffs and it don't matter.

[SAGirl]

Funny how despite his flaws shooting & finishing, Murray is only PG on roster who is a + in RPM.

That says a lot about how bad Tony & Patty are on D. Doesn't matter what they can do on O, because at end of the day, opposing teams score more than the team does when these two 3 foot traffic cones are on the floor.

Apparently that's too hard to understand for some.

Criticize Murray all you want, but he's the most effective option Spurs have. Stats prove that.



I think when a player who cannot shoot AT ALL, and not only that, but actively passes up open shots, still has iffy handles and is prone to strips... but just bc he plays with energy and hustle and is hungry... and is actually fast and has size/length.. so he can make some momentum swinging plays on defense and the occasional successful play in the paint... well the Spurs are so starved for that that he's a better option than the veterans. I mean that is a red alert for the FO. We aren't talking a Donovan Mitchell-like steal in Murray. He's still a project.. but gosh, some times they are just clearly better letting the project do his thing. Tony has been awful the last few games and Mills is not a PG... needs to stay off the ball.

[ElNono]

This team retired Avery's jersey, tbh... I mean, Patty is probably a lock.

[objective]

4Tres, bro, I hope your heart will be able to handle TP's 3-year deal this offseason:lol

I've been thinking about how much it's going to cost.

Parker will probably still be the starter because Mills is trash and Pop is used to him in that role.

And if Parker thinks he'll still be the starter and split minutes ...

Why would he take less $ per year than his backup? Mills is the highest paid backup point guard in the NBA, the starter can't make less.

I'm guessing 3-36 with year 3 having $6 million guaranteed

[duncan2k5]

Funny how despite his flaws shooting & finishing, Murray is only PG on roster who is a + in RPM.

That says a lot about how bad Tony & Patty are on D. Doesn't matter what they can do on O, because at end of the day, opposing teams score more than the team does when these two 3 foot traffic cones are on the floor.

Apparently that's too hard to understand for some.

Criticize Murray all you want, but he's the most effective option Spurs have. Stats prove that.

Someone sees the freaking light...ive been saying since last year Tony is done and needs to come off the bench, and ppl have been saying im crazy just because he had 2 or 3 good playoff games (while conveniently forgetting conley got in his ass, and let's not forget his infamous game of zero statlines in every category...)

[MaNu4Tres]

I've been thinking about how much it's going to cost.

Parker will probably still be the starter because Mills is trash and Pop is used to him in that role.

And if Parker thinks he'll still be the starter and split minutes ...

Why would he take less $ per year than his backup? Mills is the highest paid backup point guard in the NBA, the starter can't make less.

I'm guessing 3-36 with year 3 having $6 million guaranteed

All this paying and giving out contracts for the past....

Let's bring back Mario Elie, Jaren Jackson, Bruce Bowen, Fabricio, Michael Finley and Brent Barry and give them 3/36 or better yet 4/52.

They all are great in the locker room and were underpaid their last contract.

[TimDunkem]

With all this loyalty Mills crap...I still can't believe letting Avery walk, trading Bowen, willing to let David walk if C Webb agreed is all under Pop & RCs resume...

There was a time when they weren't soft.

Don't forget Pop sitting Monty Williams down and literally telling him to his face that he was old and it was time to move on. :lol

Those were the days.

[gambit1990]

even recently people have been saying tony just needs to get healthy :lol

shooting 24% the past three games.

[NASpurs]

If two shitty bigs make the Turd Towers, what’s the equivalent for guards?

[timtonymanu]

4Tres, bro, I hope your heart will be able to handle TP's 3-year deal this offseason:lol

Pretty much what a lot of us are expecting.

[sasaint]

4Tres, bro, I hope your heart will be able to handle TP's 3-year deal this offseason:lol

I cannot speak for my friend, MaNu4Tres, but somebody definitely will have to send paramedics to my house.

[SAGirl]

even recently people have been saying tony just needs to get healthy :lol

shooting 24% the past three games.
There will always be fans who make excuses for Tony.

[BillMc]

This team retired Avery's jersey, tbh... I mean, Patty is probably a lock.

I'm thinking a statue. The question is whether he'll be waving a towel or doing that "Froger" thing from 2014.

[gambit1990]

numbers for patty, then murray, then parker:
https://image.ibb.co/jJf8Yb/Screen_Shot_2018_01_21_at_12_25_18_PM.png

[DAF86]

If two shitty bigs make the Turd Towers, what’s the equivalent for guards?

The crap brothers (?)

[DPG21920]

Sucks that Murray has sucked so bad on offense. Being better than Mills & TP isn't good enough if you still suck so horrifically bad on offense for a team struggling mightily on offense.

Murray has not played anywhere near good enough to unseat a veteran. Just the reality. He had his shot and quite frankly blew it.

Also I don't know if Kemba is good enough to eat Batums deal? That would put sa in salary cap hell.

[Spurtacular]

Proposal is DOA. Crying Jordan doesn't want our trash.

[tonight...you]

I'm thinking a statue. The question is whether he'll be waving a towel or doing that "Froger" thing from 2014.
Animatronic Frogger statue.
It will be glorious and nauseating at the same time.

[Dex]

Spurs are backed into a corner here, unfortunately.

If this were NBA2K, Kemba 100% makes all the sense in the world.

In reality, the Spurs are never going to deal Parker. I'd like to say they would only do it if they were getting a HUGE return (which Kemba woul dbe)...but even then, I feel like PATFO wouldn't pull the trigger.

As for Mills, the Hornets are trying to shed salary, and Mills is being overpaid. So that doesn't really making him a very valuable trading chip.

Also, the only way the Hornets move Walker is if they can unload one of their other shitty contracts with him, and to their credit, the Spurs are too forward looking to take on a bad contract just to bring in a good player. I know they have been enamored with Batum for years, but he has fallen off a cliff recently, and is massively overpaid.

[DPG21920]

The only viable trade I see is Kemba/MKG or Kemba/Marvin for Patty/Rudy/Murray/SA 1st.

I dont see anyone eating Batums deal. I think SA would move Patty he has not earned any loyalty status IMO. I think they would be more than fine moving Murray for a win-now PG. I think they would be fine with the money MKG or Marvin makes.

That move would still save CHA plenty of money especially since Rudy would probably opt-out anyways.

I just don’t see SA trading Rudy though after convincing him to take less money to come to SA. The optics are bad and Im sure Rudy/his agent would be pretty pissed. Obviously SA may be willing to do that, but it seems unlikely.

[DPG21920]

even recently people have been saying tony just needs to get healthy :lol

shooting 24% the past three games.

As bad as Tp has shot the last 3 games, how much better has he shot than Murray the entire season? What does that say about Murray’s offensive game?

[TimDunkem]

Maybe a third team could get involved and take Marvin.

[DPG21920]

I think the Spurs could use Marvin especially if they are losing Rudy

[bklynspursfan]

As bad as Tp has shot the last 3 games, how much better has he shot than Murray the entire season? What does that say about Murray’s offensive game?

Word.. TP is at or right near 47% shooting on the season while Murray was flirting with 40%. But let these guys use their 3 game sample size for their agendas. And it took 3 off games for that to get to 47% for Parker, I'm pretty sure he was at or much closer to 50 prior to that

[DPG21920]

Word.. TP is at or right near 47% shooting on the season while Murray was flirting with 40%. But let these guys use their 3 game sample size for their agendas. And it took 3 off games for that to get to 47% for Parker, I'm pretty sure he was at or much closer to 50 prior to that

He was at 51% and it’s typical lazy analysis.

[gambit1990]

There will always be fans who make excuses for Tony.
yeah, it didn't take too long.

[gambit1990]

Word.. TP is at or right near 47% shooting on the season while Murray was flirting with 40%. But let these guys use their 3 game sample size for their agendas. And it took 3 off games for that to get to 47% for Parker, I'm pretty sure he was at or much closer to 50 prior to that
:lol

if it makes you feel any better tony's shooting 32% the last ten games.

[DPG21920]

:lol

if it makes you feel any better tony's shooting 32% the last ten games.

So who has been a better offensive player this year: TP or Murray?

[bklynspursfan]

:lol

if it makes you feel any better tony's shooting 32% the last ten games.

It's actually 42% in the last 10 games. Which is still a percent higher than Murray on the whole year. Tony in a funk is on par or better than Murray overall offensively.

Not sure how you calculated 32 tbh.

Also, Murray is 39% in his last 10 games

[SAGirl]

Still that’s horrible for a starting PG ... which is why Murray himself wasn’t starting for long even with Tony injured once upon a time.

[gambit1990]

So who has been a better offensive player this year: TP or Murray?
:lol this isn't football, try taking defense into account.

if i could only choose one to remain on the roster i'm taking murray.

[gambit1990]

It's actually 42% in the last 10 games. Which is still a percent higher than Murray on the whole year. Tony in a funk is on par or better than Murray overall offensively.

Not sure how you calculated 32 tbh.

Also, Murray is 39% in his last 10 games
my mistake, tony's shooting 32% his last seven games. the chart i looked at was for the last ten games but he didn't play three of those.

[bklynspursfan]

:lol this isn't football, try taking defense into account.

if i could only choose one to remain on the roster i'm taking murray.

The teams biggest issue right now is scoring the ball, and you want to roll with the PG that is least capable of scoring and/or creating for others. Sounds about right.

If we need stops , sure throw him in there. But overall, TP is best suited to run our offense. When Kawhi comes back, maybe things will change.

[DAF86]

The teams biggest issue right now is scoring the ball, and you want to roll with the PG that is least capable of scoring and/or creating for others. Sounds about right.

If we need stops , sure throw him in there. But overall, TP is best suited to run our offense. When Kawhi comes back, maybe things will change.

The offense runs worse with Tony in there. The only PG with positive offensive numbers is Patty.

[DPG21920]

The offense runs worse with Tony in there. The only PG with positive offensive numbers is Patty.

That is incorrect.

[DPG21920]

:lol this isn't football, try taking defense into account.

if i could only choose one to remain on the roster i'm taking murray.

:lmao Can’t answer the quetstion

[DAF86]

That is incorrect.


numbers for patty, then murray, then parker:
https://image.ibb.co/jJf8Yb/Screen_Shot_2018_01_21_at_12_25_18_PM.png

[DPG21920]

Are you not reading? OWS is an offensive stat and TP is grading out as a positive there (given it’s barley, but still, it puts Murray’s putrid offense into context that he’s grading out as one of the worst offensive players in the NBA for guards and isn’t even better than an old/bad TP on offense.

[gambit1990]

:lmao Can’t answer the quetstion
what i'm doing is not ignoring that defense is part of the game.

[dabom]

-3.5 is twice as bad as last year. :lol

[DPG21920]

what i'm doing is not ignoring that defense is part of the game.

This was an offensive conversation. You didn’t mention TP’s defense in your shooting % post. You were talking about offense.

[DAF86]

Are you not reading? OWS is an offensive stat and TP is grading out as a positive there (given it’s barley, but still, it puts Murray’s putrid offense into context that he’s grading out as one of the worst offensive players in the NBA for guards and isn’t even better than an old/bad TP on offense.

OBPM is a better indicator. Specially when comparing 0.1 vs -2.6.

[dabom]

No one uses OWS to measure the offense. That's just total offense production. Not how you affect the offensive flow of the game. :lol

[NASpurs]

It’s like arguing which is better: shit, diarrhea or crap.

[gambit1990]

-3.5 is twice as bad as last year. :lol
negative OBPM, DBPM, BPM, VORP :lol
same as last season :lol

[dabom]

It’s like arguing which is better: shit, diarrhea or crap.

Enough diarrhea and you can die. Porker is diarrhea.

[DPG21920]

OBPM is a better indicator. Specially when comparing 0.1 vs -2.6.

Sure but it’s not across the board painting an ugly picture on offense for TP like Murray. Murray ORPM is 432 out of 472 qualified players. He’s been horrific.

I’m not arguing TP has been good. He has not been good. He’s a negative overall. I”m saying Murray is FAR AND AWAY the worst offensive guard on the team and maybe the worst offensive player on the team (that matters)

[DAF86]

Sure but it’s not across the board painting an ugly picture on offense for TP like Murray. Murray ORPM is 432 out of 472 qualified players. He’s been horrific.

I’m not arguing TP has been good. He has not been good. He’s a negative overall. I”m saying Murray is FAR AND AWAY the worst offensive guard on the team and maybe the worst offensive player on the team (that matters)

I'm not comparing Tony to Murray, I'm just disproving the other poster's comment about the Spurs' offense running better with Tony. That's a common place folks in here like to go when in reality that hasn't been the case for the past 3 or 4 years.

[DPG21920]

I'm not comparing Tony to Murray, I'm just disproving the other poster's comment about the Spurs' offense running better with Tony. That's a common place folks in here like to go when in reality that hasn't been the case for the past 3 or 4 years.

Its running with better with TP over Murray that’s for sure. But like I and others have tried to explain: YES Murray is a net positive so far, but the teams offense is horrible and he’s a huge part of that. He will not play a lot let alone start as long as Pop is trying to tinker in season with the offense to see if he can find something that works.

TP is better at many phases of running an offense than Murray/Mills - arguing that is just silly. It’s not like that means he’s great or something. Its an indictment of just how bad Mills/Murray are as well.

[dabom]

Are we doing this again? Only thing porker can run is to the food table after games. :lol

[TD 21]

Was thinking about Spurs' willingness to move on from key role players in the past and the Green rumors this past off season being a good sign that Mills wouldn't be exempt.



Why would he take less $ per year than his backup? Mills is the highest paid backup point guard in the NBA, the starter can't make less.

I'm guessing 3-36 with year 3 having $6 million guaranteed

Parker doesn't have a choice. The sentimental value he has to Spurs is far greater than his actual value at this point. No one is clamoring for his services.


Spurs won't disrespect him with their offer, but he's not getting Mills' contract either. He's the starter in name only. In reality, they split the position. The latter got his for 3 reasons: 1) His untimely shoulder injury in '14 cost him money then and they felt indebted that someone who'd made relatively nothing to that point played through a significant injury to help them win a championship, 2) he's never had a relatively big contract and this was his last shot at one, 3) they misread the market.




Spurs are backed into a corner here, unfortunately.

If this were NBA2K, Kemba 100% makes all the sense in the world.

In reality, the Spurs are never going to deal Parker. I'd like to say they would only do it if they were getting a HUGE return (which Kemba woul dbe)...but even then, I feel like PATFO wouldn't pull the trigger.

As for Mills, the Hornets are trying to shed salary, and Mills is being overpaid. So that doesn't really making him a very valuable trading chip.

Also, the only way the Hornets move Walker is if they can unload one of their other shitty contracts with him, and to their credit, the Spurs are too forward looking to take on a bad contract just to bring in a good player. I know they have been enamored with Batum for years, but he has fallen off a cliff recently, and is massively overpaid.

Walker, Williams for Mills, Gay, Murray, 1st.

Walker and whatever salary they attach, will cost in excess of $25M through next season, then more for at least a season after while Walker gets a significant raise and whoever was sent with him is still on the books for at least the first season of that. In other words, they're going to have to take some salary back, especially if they intend to extract reasonable value.

I'm not saying this would be a great trade for them, but based on plenty of star trades (also, Walker is a lesser one playing the league's most saturated position), it's not far fetched and would save them a lot of money going forward.

[bklynspursfan]

I'm not comparing Tony to Murray, I'm just disproving the other poster's comment about the Spurs' offense running better with Tony. That's a common place folks in here like to go when in reality that hasn't been the case for the past 3 or 4 years.

When he's in there with the starters, the flow of the offense is much better. Our top 3 scoring lineups all include Parker. In reality, its tough to use any sort of stats due to the volatile nature of our lineups and injuries we've been having.

But for example, Murray with the starters vs Parker with the starters shows them scoring 8 points more with TP and turnovers more than double with Murray.

[DAF86]

Its running with better with TP over Murray that’s for sure. But like I and others have tried to explain: YES Murray is a net positive so far, but the teams offense is horrible and he’s a huge part of that. He will not play a lot let alone start as long as Pop is trying to tinker in season with the offense to see if he can find something that works.

TP is better at many phases of running an offense than Mills- arguing that is just silly. It’s not like that means he’s great or something. Its an indictment of just how bad Mills/Murray are as well.

Sure, Tony looks more confident dribling a ball. To the eyes it seems like he runs a pick and roll prittier, but then you go and watch the stats and for the past 3 or 4 years the offense does better with Patty in there instead of Tony.

[bklynspursfan]

Sure, Tony looks more confident dribling a ball. To the eyes it seems like he runs a pick and roll prittier, but then you go and watch the stats and for the past 3 or 4 years the offense does better with Patty in there instead of Tony.

I agree, & Patty being a shooting threat definitely helps. Him trying to be more of a traditional PG I think has hurt his overall shooting cause he's trying to do new/different things. I think Pop alluded to some of his struggles could be due to the added responsibilities

The discussion was more about TP struggling to shoot the last 3 games and people using some lazy arguments for their agendas

[gambit1990]

I'm not comparing Tony to Murray, I'm just disproving the other poster's comment about the Spurs' offense running better with Tony. That's a common place folks in here like to go when in reality that hasn't been the case for the past 3 or 4 years.

Sure, Tony looks more confident dribling a ball. To the eyes it seems like he runs a pick and roll prittier, but then you go and watch the stats and for the past 3 or 4 years the offense does better with Patty in there instead of Tony.
this is spot on.

[DPG21920]

this is spot on.

You’re a clown.

[gambit1990]

I’m not arguing TP has been good. He has not been good. He’s a negative overall.
someone's finally learning :lol took you awhile.

[DPG21920]

someone's finally learning :lol took you awhile.

Nah - you just got exposed again with your terrible takes. I knew once I challenged you that you would back down and go away.

[gambit1990]

Nah - you just got exposed again with your terrible takes. I knew once I challenged you that you would back down and go away.
:lmao

[DPG21920]

:lmao

“but but but let’s talk about defense now because I can’t answer the questions!”

[SAGirl]

when you are in a dogfight arguing why a washed up injury prone Tony is better by just a hair in terms of impact on the team than a project player who can't shoot for squat and is terrible offensively most of the time, you are in a losing position IMO. Neither is a starting caliber PG for a contender.

If Tony keeps shooting at TOSB Kobe levels, at least Murray can defend. They may not be winning games anyways.

I am all for a trade. Murray may eventually be better but there's no guarantee that happens and this team is allegedly a win now team.

[DPG21920]

Ya - we all know that ^ that is no where near what the “debate” is about. But people here mostly have terrible comprehension as it is.

[gambit1990]

when you are in a dogfight arguing why a washed up injury prone Tony is better by just a hair in terms of impact on the team than a project player who can't shoot for squat and is terrible offensively most of the time, you are in a losing position IMO. Neither is a starting caliber PG for a contender.

If Tony keeps shooting at TOSB Kobe levels, at least Murray can defend.
:tu

[DPG21920]

I really don’t know how to explain this anymore than I have either. The Spurs defense overall has been very solid. The offense has been really bad.

Everyone knows that all the guards have been really bad overall and aren’t starting caliber. However, with offense being by far the biggest issue and Murray being the WORST offensive guard, Pop is searching for offense while he can. It’s the regular season and Pop’s only objective is not to win as many games as possible.

He’s trying to figure stuff out while trying to win and for now it’s less Murray since he’s trying to solve the offense and Murray doesnt do that.

Yes, we know that when Murray sucks on offense his defense can still make an impact. Pop knows that. But that is not what Pop cares about at this time. He cares about getting the offense going while he still can.

[DPG21920]

How long will that go on if Mills/Parker or others don’t step up? I don’t know. But it’s obvious what Pop is doing and the logic behind it.

Everyone here, including me, hoped Murray would take over but he got his chance and blew it. He will likely get more chances and for the sake of everyone maybe he can learn not to be atrocious on offense on a consistent basis and SA will be better for it.

[MaNu4Tres]

when you are in a dogfight arguing why a washed up injury prone Tony is better by just a hair in terms of impact on the team than a project player who can't shoot for squat and is terrible offensively most of the time, you are in a losing position IMO. Neither is a starting caliber PG for a contender.

If Tony keeps shooting at TOSB Kobe levels, at least Murray can defend. They may not be winning games anyways.

I am all for a trade. Murray may eventually be better but there's no guarantee that happens and this team is allegedly a win now team.


It's funny how people use the " but Tony runs the offense better" cliche excuse like it's 2012 still.

When in reality, his role has been moved to an off ball 18 foot spot up jump shooter most of the time when hes on the floor. So he runs a PnPop where he can make an easy and predictable pass to LA 4 times a game, that's not impressive and that doesn't count for running an offense.

Reality is, even if Tony & Patty are obviously better on offense, they still aren't good enough to handle an adequate load for the gravity of their offense to really make a big enough difference. They both have small offensive roles, the same as just about any guard on the team as possessions are pretty balanced throughout the guards & wings in the rotation.

[DPG21920]

With Kawhi out that is not the case though ^

[MaNu4Tres]

With Kawhi out that is not the case though ^

Kawhis only played 9 games.

7 guards and wings average between 6 and 8 shots per game and no one averages more than 4 assists.

That shows how evenly distributed the offense has become on the perimeter.

[DPG21920]

Kawhis only played 9 games.

7 guards and wings average between 6 and 8 shots per game and no one averages more than 4 assists.

That shows how evenly distributed the offense has become on the perimeter.

I know. I’m saying this year they need the guards to step up more because the highest usuage rate player has been out. Because none of them really have stepped up a lot, it’s been spread out and the results have been poor because of that .

They needed to have bigger roles and they have not shown the ability.

[MaNu4Tres]

I know. I’m saying this year they need the guards to step up more because the highest usuage rate player has been out. Because none of them really have stepped up a lot, it’s been spread out and the results have been poor because of that .

They needed to have bigger roles and they have not shown the ability.

If Parker & Mills showed they could handle bigger loads than the average guard on the team, I could buy that and overlook how bad they are on D -- being the two worst perimeter defenders on the team. But that simply is not the case or close to it.

[DPG21920]

If Parker & Mills showed they could handle bigger loads than the average guard on the team, I could buy that and overlook how bad they are on D -- being the two worst perimeter defenders on the team. But that simply is not the case or close to it.

They have shown they can be a hell of a lot more competent than Murray though which is what Pop was searching for. Let’s see if that search ended though and Murray stays a starter with Manu healthy.

[MaNu4Tres]

They have shown they can be a hell of a lot more competent than Murray though which is what Pop was searching for. Let’s see if that search ended though and Murray stays a starter with Manu healthy.

They have, but the offensive responsibility for PGs on this team is small to begin with. And it will continue to be until they trade for a better one.

If offensive responsibility is small for a player, they better be able to defend. Defense is more valuable in this circumstance.

[bklynspursfan]

They have shown they can be a hell of a lot more competent than Murray though which is what Pop was searching for. Let’s see if that search ended though and Murray stays a starter with Manu healthy.

The offense continues to look better out there with Parker than Murray. Offensively is where we need the most work. We're ranked 2nd defensively and 19th offensively.

[MaNu4Tres]

Murray has the job now. Good call, Pop.

Give Parker a 1+1 minimum deal in summer as a retirement gift.

[DPG21920]

Murray has the job now. Good call, Pop.

Give Parker a 1+1 minimum deal in summer as a retirement gift.

Didn’t look so good tonight with Murray at the helm. Just have to hope he doesn’t tank the team further with his offensive woes.

We will see. I dont have any doubt TP can be a solid bench PG at this point.

[DPG21920]

I’m assuming Forbes is out of the rotation now.

Manu/TP/Mills have to be locks if Murray is starting. I cannot see any of the other 3 benched. You would have to think SA trades but who knows.

[dabom]

The thing about starting Murray, Tony doesn't fit the second unit.

[DPG21920]

The thing about starting Murray, Tony doesn't fit the second unit.

I think he would fit pretty well going against second unit type players. He still does a few things well, but it will be an adjustment. Tonight was a good peek at what he can do. He was stuck with terrible defensive players (Forbes, Mills, Bertans) so the net rating looked bad because they all missed shots too on offense, but TP looked good.

I think with Manu alongside him it could make for something unique. Forbes doesn’t deserve minutes anyways - he’s been bad and his mental fortitude is not there IMO.

[ElNono]

there's a role for tony off the bench....

















as an assistant coach, etc...

[tbdog]

The thing about starting Murray, Tony doesn't fit the second unit.

He does work well with Gasol though. But when Leonard is back, Anderson will be backup 3. That makes Parker the an odd choice to play with manu and kyle.

[MaNu4Tres]

I’m assuming Forbes is out of the rotation now.

Manu/TP/Mills have to be locks if Murray is starting. I cannot see any of the other 3 benched. You would have to think SA trades but who knows.

Something has to give. Once Kawhi & Rudy are back...Kyle may lose minutes too..not just Forbes.

LMA/Pau - Rudy - Manu - Patty - Parker

No Kyle, no Bryn...Even though id say both Kyle & Bryn > Tony & Patty

[MaNu4Tres]

Didn’t look so good tonight with Murray at the helm. Just have to hope he doesn’t tank the team further with his offensive woes.

We will see. I dont have any doubt TP can be a solid bench PG at this point.

He actually was overall more impactful tonight. Only Spur in + in +/-.

[DPG21920]

Something has to give. Once Kawhi & Rudy are back...Kyle may lose minutes too..not just Forbes.

LMA/Pau - Rudy - Manu - Patty - Parker

No Kyle, no Bryn...Even though id say both Kyle & Bryn > Tony & Patty

No way. Bryn sucks. Kyle I agree, but he’s just in a spot where the comp at his position is tough. But Kyle deserves minutes. Forbes is bad man.

[DPG21920]

He actually was overall more impactful tonight. Only Spur in + in +/-.

I know you watched. He had some decent moments but TP was better. TP was stuck with Forbes/Bertans/Mills who were bricking shots along with their poor defense. That led to the +/- being so warped.

At the end of the day he was the starting PG and the offense was horrendous and it was a loss. He solved nothing.

[SAGirl]

I always had doubts Spurs would re-sign Kyle despite all the trollers here assuming he’d be back but for sure if he’s benched undeservedly he won’t be back. He’s as deserving of playing time as most others in this team.

[dabom]

Can't wait to get 2 wings/Small Ball 4s back. Solves this whole forbes minutes thing.

[MaNu4Tres]

I know you watched. He had some decent moments but TP was better. TP was stuck with Forbes/Bertans/Mills who were bricking shots along with their poor defense. That led to the +/- being so warped.

At the end of the day he was the starting PG and the offense was horrendous and it was a loss. He solved nothing.

Meanwhile when Murray was on the floor, Spurs outscored Pacers by 3 points.

When Parker was on the floor? Pacers beat the Spurs by 9.

As you know, there's more to the game than running 3 to 4 smooth PnPops.

Murray may have started, but he played just a little over half the game.For the year, not just tonight, Murray has been the only PG that is a positive in RPM. There's other reasons why he helps the team more.

[DPG21920]

Meanwhile when Murray was on the floor, Spurs outscored Pacers by 3 points.

When Parker was on the floor? Pacers beat the Spurs by 9.

As you know, there's more to the game than running 3 to 4 smooth PnPops.

Murray may have started, but he played just a little over half the game.For the year, not just tonight, Murray has been the only PG that is a positive in RPM. There's other reasons why he helps the team more.

I explained this box score. It was pretty obvious why Murray was a net positive and TP was not. You are being results oriented. TP played with a terrible defensive crew that mis-fired on much better quality looks than Murray generated for his teammates.

And you keep pointing to RPM. Murray although a positive grades out as a non-starting level player. He has not been good. So dont confuse “playing better than Mills or TP” with “good”.

His offense is atrocious and there is reason to be concerned that over a bigger sample that positive RPM will decline if his offense doesn’t improve.

[tbdog]

I always had doubts Spurs would re-sign Kyle despite all the trollers here assuming he’d be back but for sure if he’s benched undeservedly he won’t be back. He’s as deserving of playing time as most others in this team.

He will resign on a bargin. He has been our third best player this season.

[DPG21920]

Kyle is not signing for a bargain. He has not had a big pay day and will chase the money as he should. I’m weary of a guy who admits it was a contract year and money that motivated him but credit to him he worked hard and it’s paid off.

[Snaq O'Meal]

there's a role for tony off the bench....

















as an assistant coach, etc...

He'd rather be GM tbh.

[MaNu4Tres]

I explained this box score. It was pretty obvious why Murray was a net positive and TP was not. You are being results oriented. TP played with a terrible defensive crew that mis-fired on much better quality looks than Murray generated for his teammates.

And you keep pointing to RPM. Murray although a positive grades out as a non-starting level player. He has not been good. So dont confuse “playing better than Mills or TP” with “good”.

His offense is atrocious and there is reason to be concerned that over a bigger sample that positive RPM will decline if his offense doesn’t improve.

I'm aware Murray isn't a good half court offensive player. Never said he's good at that aspect. I think its an injustice to judge a players overall ability by how he handles a particular aspect of the game ( such as an PnR playmaker in half court offense).

He's actually been really solid in offensive transition, getting guys open looks and he's been very solid in defense, deflections, and rebounding and overall activity. His length disrupts the game in many ways on both ends on the boards, and on D. Those things make him a positive player, despite his flaws running a PnR or being unable to knock down an open 3.

Kind of like Tony Allen did for MEM but to a lesser extent. I.E.Tony Allen was an active force who made a bigger impact than a Brent Barry.

I'm not sold that Murray is the answer long term at PG, but as of now, he gives the team an edge if he starts with Green & Kawhi. That s elite perimeter D & length that makes a huge impact.

[DPG21920]

Well it makes an impact, wouldn’t say huge. The defense whether Murray was playing a lot or not was still in the top 3. The offense was not good.

It’s gotten so much more difficult for non-offensive players to make an impact. Tony Allen, etc, used to be able to do so more often. It’s still possible but it’s become more difficult to play 4 v 5 on offense. It really is a killer especially in the playoffs when teams can scheme.

It’s easier to hide bad defense when you have Danny/LmA/Kawhi then it is to hide bad offense IMO.

[DPG21920]

And I think you are over simplifying his offensive issues. It’s not just a lack of PnR ability. Or lack of a 3PT shot. He literally has 0 offensive game. He can’t get into the paint. He can’t finish when he does get there. He has no post moves. He has no mid-range game. He has no 3PT shot.

It’s way more than just lacking some spacing due to a lack of 3PT shot. And PnR is a huge deal. I love that he gets SA to play a bit faster and can push tempo, but it does not happen often enough.

[MaNu4Tres]

It’s easier to hide bad defense when you have Danny/LmA/Kawhi then it is to hide bad offense IMO.

At end of the day the D is a lot better with DeJounte on the floor. Stats prove that and he's a reason why Spurs have graded out as 3rd in D with Kawhi out. There's a huge difference defensively with him on floor vs Patty & Tony...and stats prove that again.

Defense isn't a problem with Murray on floor, but it is with Mills/TP.. Yes, Spurs can get away with TP/ Mills against the poor teams, but the avg/ good Teams?

There's a reason why DeJounte leads PGs in the NBA in DRPM.

[DPG21920]

At end of the day the D is a lot better with DeJounte on the floor. Stats prove that and he's a reason why Spurs have graded out as 3rd in D with Kawhi out. There's a huge difference defensively with him on floor vs Patty & Tony...and stats prove that again.

Defense isn't a problem with Murray on floor, but it is with Mills/TP.. Yes, Spurs can get away with TP/ Mills against the poor teams, but the avg/ good Teams?

There's a reason why DeJounte leads PGs in the NBA in DRPM.

So what does it say that Murray literally leads the nba in DRPM and still grades out overall as a non-starter?

[TD 21]

I think its an injustice to judge a players overall ability by how he handles a particular aspect of the game ( such as an PnR playmaker in half court offense).

Depends on role or what's needed. Right now, they need him to be the PnR playmaker in the starting lineup, so him not being able to do so is crippling. Not his fault so much as the reality of the predicament they've put themselves in.

Hopefully his starting is them showcasing him for Hornets.

Astute point about the rotation though (if this move is in perpetuity). If they ever get healthy, guessing Anderson would take the spot minute role that was previously available to Forbes / Bertans.

Parker / Mills / Ginobili is untenable defensively though. We saw it tonight, with Mills attempting to guard Oladipo. That should never happen.




Well it makes an impact, wouldn’t say huge. The defense whether Murray was playing a lot or not was still in the top 3. The offense was not good.

It’s gotten so much more difficult for non-offensive players to make an impact. Tony Allen, etc, used to be able to do so more often. It’s still possible but it’s become more difficult to play 4 v 5 on offense. It really is a killer especially in the playoffs when teams can scheme.

It’s easier to hide bad defense when you have Danny/LmA/Kawhi then it is to hide bad offense IMO.

:tu

[DPG21920]

At end of the day the D is a lot better with DeJounte on the floor. Stats prove that and he's a reason why Spurs have graded out as 3rd in D with Kawhi out. There's a huge difference defensively with him on floor vs Patty & Tony...and stats prove that again.

Defense isn't a problem with Murray on floor, but it is with Mills/TP.. Yes, Spurs can get away with TP/ Mills against the poor teams, but the avg/ good Teams?

There's a reason why DeJounte leads PGs in the NBA in DRPM.

In the playoffs, in the modern NBA, Tony Allen tanks teams. Roberson does too unless there is a fluky shooting period. It’s hard to play non-offensive threats against good teams in this NBA.

You’ve seen this and SA has attacked this with other teams numerous times

[MaNu4Tres]

In the playoffs, in the modern NBA, Tony Allen tanks teams. Roberson does too unless there is a fluky shooting period. It’s hard to play non-offensive threats against good teams in this NBA.

You’ve seen this and SA has attacked this with other teams numerous times

I'm not expecting Murray to be a savior at all. I just think he's the logical choice with the crap they have to work with. He gives them the best chance over Tony/ Patty.

[DPG21920]

We will see. I want Murray to do well but I don’t see how he’s magically going to develop an offensive game mid-season when he sucks so bad there?

But ya, I agree with TP/Mills sucking he’s the best of the worst at this point and just have to hope Defense is so damn good that SA wins that way. Going to be interesting :lol

[palangi]

This has to be the most expensive backup PG duo in league history. What a waste of money

[tholdren]

He actually was overall more impactful tonight. Only Spur in + in +/-.

You use plus minus youre not good at evaluating basketball. You might as well use ppg

[Ice009]

You use plus minus youre not good at evaluating basketball. You might as well use ppg

How about you tell us some of your thoughts on evaluating basketball. You seem to come off like you know what you're talking about, but you never elaborate or go in depth.

[BillMc]

Animatronic Frogger statue.
It will be glorious and nauseating at the same time.
:lol

[duncan2k5]

Good move starting Murray...Parker is getting worse as time goes on (same as last year), and murray can only get better...

[duncan2k5]

I explained this box score. It was pretty obvious why Murray was a net positive and TP was not. You are being results oriented. TP played with a terrible defensive crew that mis-fired on much better quality looks than Murray generated for his teammates.

And you keep pointing to RPM. Murray although a positive grades out as a non-starting level player. He has not been good. So dont confuse “playing better than Mills or TP” with “good”.

His offense is atrocious and there is reason to be concerned that over a bigger sample that positive RPM will decline if his offense doesn’t improve.

so why werent you saying this when Murray had to play with those same bench players? you didnt hold that against him...Parker routinely scores below double digits nowadays, and will get worse...his offense is predictable, that's why we get into slumps vs the better teams on the league...Parker is out there running the same pick and pop play from 2004...murray is more dynamic and has more to offer...plus he WILL get better...gets to the rim at will (which we NEED at this point)...he just needs to learn to take contact and finish instead of constantly doing that floater...and Pop needs to stop pulling him after every mistake...give him the confidence to open up his game and try things...if Kerr was pulling Curry when he pulled up from 40 on a fast break the first couple times he did it, curry wouldnt be the threat he is today

[SAGirl]

How about you tell us some of your thoughts on evaluating basketball. You seem to come off like you know what you're talking about, but you never elaborate or go in depth.
He is a troll.

[objective]

This has to be the most expensive backup PG duo in league history. What a waste of money

$26 million worth of two guys who aren't good enough to start on an NBA team. And can't defend. And Mills gets another three years.

It must take a remarkably poor job of managing the cap to have 25% of the cap committed to guys who aren't good enough to separate themselves from a second year player who can't shoot, won't shoot, can't finish, and can't take care of the ball at a high level.

[SAGirl]

$26 million worth of two guys who aren't good enough to start on an NBA team. And can't defend. And Mills gets another three years.

It must take a remarkably poor job of managing the cap to have 25% of the cap committed to guys who aren't good enough to separate themselves from a second year player who can't shoot, won't shoot, can't finish, and can't take care of the ball at a high level.
True. What a horrible summer Spurs had. Of course this only gets exposed bc Kawhi got injured. He would have carried this roster far had he been healthy and covered up the PG spot like he has done the past couple of seasons.

and that doesn’t even get to how they built a roster with 8 guards, only 2 playable bigs, a non nba player in Joffrey, a summer acquisition that has also been injured and was questionable when signed, etc.