And then some folks in here try to sell me that baseball is harder/more demanding

[DAF86]

Tpg8C0JGCwQ

[dfens]

Tpg8C0JGCwQ

son first I dislike the #checkmystats analysis of the game and also the commentator sounds like a faggot, so I'm not a fan. Exactly the type of idiots who can't understand deep playmaking, shifting positional centers in a midfield or the value of false runs.

2nd baseball is more demanding on your stomach and on your ass tbh, it's hard to even jog without taking a shit after eating 2 burgers ... and in baseball they have to eat like 5 before even being allowed near the pitch. That's cruelty tbh :cry

[DAF86]

I wonder why the usual suspects haven't posted on this thread.

[midnightpulp]

Tpg8C0JGCwQ

:lmao

Baseball deals with "blade of grass" sized margin for errors every pitch and every swing.


Hitters only have 125 milliseconds to gauge the average Major League fastball – less than the blink of an eye. Which begs the question: how is it humanly possible?

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/hitting-major-league-fastball-physically-203005571.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/science-major-league-fastball-brain-reaction-time-2016-4

Nothing Messi did in that video challenges the limits of human cognition and reaction times (the batter/pitcher matchup is on the bleeding edge of human reaction time at ~120ms). You would instantly understand by stepping into a batting cage throwing you even lowly 70mph pitches. Average Joe here couldn't even catch a 100mph fastball from a machine (meaning it would have much less movement than a Chapman fastball).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-4xZkja634&t=92s

You mistake flash for difficulty (note: what Messi did is of course extremely difficult, and he's probably the only player in the world who can make that play, but in context, it isn't any more "difficult" or impressive than Machado throwing an off balance 160 foot throw on the money from from foul territory (similarly, he's the only 3 basemen in the world who can make that play).

[midnightpulp]

Oh, and the final nail in the coffin of this debate between which sport is more demanding is the relative "ready" times to play pro soccer vs. pro baseball. If we can somewhat quantify "demanding" by time spent learning a skill, baseball proves itself as probably the most demanding major sport on the planet given the fact that prospects need, at the very least, 2 to 3 seasons in the minors before they're even considered for a call up, and these are high round draft picks. You won't see 16 and 17 year olds in the MLB making their debut anytime soon like you do in soccer at the highest leagues.

[DAF86]

:lmao

Baseball deals with "blade of grass" sized margin for errors every pitch and every swing.



https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/hitting-major-league-fastball-physically-203005571.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/science-major-league-fastball-brain-reaction-time-2016-4

Nothing Messi did in that video challenges the limits of human cognition and reaction times (the batter/pitcher matchup is on the bleeding edge of human reaction time at ~120ms). You would instantly understand by stepping into a batting cage throwing you even lowly 70mph pitches. Average Joe here couldn't even catch a 100mph fastball from a machine (meaning it would have much less movement than a Chapman fastball).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-4xZkja634&t=92s

You mistake flash for difficulty (note: what Messi did is of course extremely difficult, and he's probably the only player in the world who can make that play, but in context, it isn't any more "difficult" or impressive than Machado throwing an off balance 160 foot throw on the money from from foul territory (similarly, he's the only 3 basemen in the world who can make that play).

Thinking soccer players don't deal with "blade of grass" margin of error several times during a game. :lol

And not just to score. They have to deal with that margin of error to control a ball, to dribble past somebody, to make a pass, etc.

It is way more possible for Messi to get a hit on an MLB pitcher than for a MLB player to do what Messi did there.

[midnightpulp]

Thinking soccer players don't deal with "blade of grass" margin of error several times during a game. :lol

And not just to score. They have to deal with that margin of error to control a ball, to dribble past somebody, to make a pass, etc.

It is way more possible for Messi to get a hit on an MLB pitcher than for a MLB player to do what Messi did there.

Seriously? You're comparing an outstanding play made by a once in a generation talent to a routine thing in baseball. No. The comparison would be Messi's play vs. Stanton launching a 98 mph fastball 480 feet. Messi has zero chance, even given an infinite number of chances, of doing that. Same can be said for Stanton trying to do what Messi did. Messi also would have zero chance of getting a base hit against MLB pitching if his swing looked something like this (which is probably would).

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT8qBef6cOOWMzl5IY/giphy.gif

And do know why it's impossible? An MLB player can perform a complete swing in 130-190ms, with bat speeds over 100mph. "Average Joes," even those who've played baseball, perform these tasks at around 300ms and 50mph respectively. Even swinging wildly and hoping to get lucky won't help (note, you will not hit live pitching swinging wildly), since there's not enough bat speed to hit the ball hard. A lucky infield single might be possibility, but again, baseball doesn't work the way you think it does. An average person trying to "get lucky" against real pitching would work as well as aimlessly kicking a soccer ball as hard as you can from 50 yards out and hoping to score a goal.

[Pavlov]

OP has obviously never played baseball with apalisoc_9.

https://www.anchoragemuseum.org/media/5650/2015_homefield_12.jpg

[Chris Fall]

You won't see 16 and 17 year olds in the MLB making their debut anytime soon like you do in soccer at the highest leagues.

I belive the youngest professional soccer player was 12 years old. Might have been a stunt and it was like an under-20 league, but still a professional league. There have been several 16 year olds who have played in the English Premier League, even recently. Not stunts, not gimmicks. 16 year olds against grown ass adult males at the highest level. English Premier League.

How physically demanding is it if under developed, not fully mature "kids" can hang with those considered to be the very best in the game? It's not one LeBron James, Ken Griffey, Jr. once in a generation example. Multiple examples of 16 year olds playing in the EPL.

I like soccer. But it really is a poverty sport that requires less skill than most other pro sports. If you can run hard, have good wind and the endurance to run hard for a long time, you can be good at soccer. Strength, quickness, jumping ability, agility, foot-eye coordination are all bonuses. Not requirements.

[midnightpulp]

I belive the youngest professional soccer player was 12 years old. Might have been a stunt and it was like an under-20 league, but still a professional league. There have been several 16 year olds who have played in the English Premier League, even recently. Not stunts, not gimmicks. 16 year olds against grown ass adult males at the highest level. English Premier League.

How physically demanding is it if under developed, not fully mature "kids" can hang with those considered to be the very best in the game? It's not one LeBron James, Ken Griffey, Jr. once in a generation example. Multiple examples of 16 year olds playing in the EPL.

I like soccer. But it really is a poverty sport that requires less skill than most other pro sports. If you can run hard, have good wind and the endurance to run hard for a long time, you can be good at soccer. Strength, quickness, jumping ability, agility, foot-eye coordination are all bonuses. Not requirements.

Indeed. That's the killshot in the "soccer is so demanding" debate. Hotshot "prodigies" sometimes don't make it out of Low-A ball, while loads of 18 year old soccer players make their debuts in the biggest leagues and have productive seasons. Now, the soccer crew will counter that soccer is a young man's game while baseball is a an old man's game, but the aging curves are about identical.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qehMjpM_5bo/UqzRxOxB8EI/AAAAAAAACnc/K-NZq_d7j1E/s1600/The+Football+Aging+Curve.PNG

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tQrZjhZDQ8g/V6PX-0SUvZI/AAAAAAAAE_0/a70NRlS8Ocg62DQkhcNmKzgevRwze7ZAwCLcB/s1600/Baseball%2BCurve.png

But they run around or something.

[DAF86]

I belive the youngest professional soccer player was 12 years old. Might have been a stunt and it was like an under-20 league, but still a professional league. There have been several 16 year olds who have played in the English Premier League, even recently. Not stunts, not gimmicks. 16 year olds against grown ass adult males at the highest level. English Premier League.

How physically demanding is it if under developed, not fully mature "kids" can hang with those considered to be the very best in the game? It's not one LeBron James, Ken Griffey, Jr. once in a generation example. Multiple examples of 16 year olds playing in the EPL.

I like soccer. But it really is a poverty sport that requires less skill than most other pro sports. If you can run hard, have good wind and the endurance to run hard for a long time, you can be good at soccer. Strength, quickness, jumping ability, agility, foot-eye coordination are all bonuses. Not requirements.

There's no such thing as an "U-20" professional league, tbh.

Also, all that last part is complete bullshit. Those things you named aren't "bonuses" they are fucking requirements. :lol

I can assure you that the least talented soccer player has the regular person beat on all those things you named by a big ass margin.

On baseball you can get by with justo hand-eye coordination. On football you need all those things you mentioned and then some.

[DAF86]

Fucking new phone is making me take twice the time to write and it still changes all my fucking words.

[Chris Fall]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/jul/22/knowledge-youngest-footballers

You're right. It wasn't an under-20 league. It was a full adult Bolivian football league. 12 year old in an adult professional league. The coach was the 12 year old's father, so as I mentioned above, it was a stunt. But it happened. 12 year old professional football player.

[Mitch]

Beisbol takes less stamina to play, outside of maybe a pitcher throwing a ball like that is pretty tasking. In terms of skill required, beisbol has got to be one of the harder widely played sports while bukkakeball is significantly easier to get into (that's probably why so many countries play it, besides it being cheap as dirt to play). I'm not too much into beisbol, but I can recognize that it's one of the most difficult major sports.

[midnightpulp]

There's no such thing as an "U-20" professional league, tbh.

Alzó, all that last part is complete bullshit. Those things you named aren't "bonuses" they are fucking requirements. :lol

I can assure you that the least talented soccer player has the regular person beat on all those things you named by a big ass margin.

On baseball you can get by with justo hand-eye coordination. On football you need all those things you mentioned and then some.

Are you seriously dumb? MLB clubs demand sub-7.0 60 yard dash times from all position players, and they would really like the number to be more around 6.7 and sub-6.6 for outfielders. Those times translate into about a 4.8-5.0 40. And all the hand-eye coordination in the world won't help you if you lack the necessary world class core strength to hit a baseball 100-120mph (or throw one 90-100mph). You need top tier lateral quickness to break on balls from a standing position in the outfield and middle infield positions and great body control and agility to make off-balance, wrong footed throws from 90 feet and beyond.

Look, I won't personally compare the athletic/skill demands of baseball to soccer, since I didn't play the latter, but I can compare it to basketball and football, and while of course those two sports have athletic events that look flashier, they are generally easier to execute at a par level than baseball actions. Most people who've played all 3 sports growing up to at least the high school level agree. Baseball actions are harder because you're dealing with greater distances (which don't translate well on television. A "routine" throw from 3rd to 1st is only 20 feet fewer than half a football field), much greater speeds, and a much greater precision demand. This, again, is why lifelong baseball players who are drafted high need years in the minors before they're ready. NBA players can be ready at 18, and there's dozens of NFL players who picked up the game in college and made it.

But yeah, no running around.

[DAF86]

All you need to master is one thing and you are set. So fucking difficult. :cry

[midnightpulp]

All you need to master is one thing and you are set. So fucking difficult. :cry

Yeah, mastering hitting really helps with your throwing accuracy and fielding fundamentals :lol

And besides, weighted skills. Getting good at hitting is far more difficult than learning the combined dribbling, shooting, and defensive fundamentals needed to play good basketball. Trying to quantify difficulty by citing number of skills needed is silly. You quantify it by time. Again, baseball 1st rounders are rarely ready straight out of the draft, while NBA draft picks are ready immediately.

[DAF86]

Are you seriously dumb? MLB clubs demand sub-7.0 60 yard dash times from all position players, and they would really like the number to be more around 6.7 and sub-6.6 for outfielders. Those times translate into about a 4.8-5.0 40. And all the hand-eye coordination in the world won't help you if you lack the necessary world class core strength to hit a baseball 100-120mph (or throw one 90-100mph). You need top tier lateral quickness to break on balls from a standing position in the outfield and middle infield positions and great body control and agility to make off-balance, wrong footed throws from 90 feet and beyond.

Look, I won't personally compare the athletic/skill demands of baseball to soccer, since I didn't play the latter, but I can compare it to basketball and football, and while of course those two sports have athletic events that look flashier, they are generally easier to execute at a par level than baseball actions. Most people who've played all 3 sports growing up to at least the high school level agree. Baseball actions are harder because you're dealing with greater distances (which don't translate well on television. A "routine" throw from 3rd to 1st is only 20 feet fewer than half a football field), much greater speeds, and a much greater precision demand. This, again, is why lifelong baseball players who are drafted high need years in the minors before they're ready. NBA players can be ready at 18, and there's dozens of NFL players who picked up the game in college and made it.

But yeah, no running around.

If a guy has supreme hand-eye coordination, he can be as slow as a love balad and will still make it professionally. I doubt David Ortiz ran sub 7.0 60 yds dashes, tbh.

[midnightpulp]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/jul/22/knowledge-youngest-footballers

You're right. It wasn't an under-20 league. It was a full adult Bolivian football league. 12 year old in an adult professional league. The coach was the 12 year old's father, so as I mentioned above, it was a stunt. But it happened. 12 year old professional football player.

And many 16 and 17 year olds.

https://www.thesportster.com/soccer/top-10-youngest-players-in-premier-league-history/

All from the modern era of soccer, too. There hasn't been an MLB player younger than 19 in 47 years.

[midnightpulp]

If a guy has supreme hand-eye coordination, he can be as slow as a love balad and will still make it professionally. I doubt David Ortiz ran sub 7.0 60 yds dashes, tbh.

Are you forgetting how fuckin' strong David Ortiz is/was?

Also, DHs are specialist positions, like a goalkeeper. Goalkeepers have had top sprint speeds clocked as low a 16mph (they might be faster, but they don't routinely use their speed). Ortiz reached 16mph in his last season. Goalies need a good vert, quick reaction times, and a strong leg, but DHs need quicker reaction times, shitload of pure strength (yeah, Ortiz's 6'3" linebacker frame is a product of his hand-eye coordination :lol), and some speed. DHs who can't run are worthless. Pujols was the worst player in the league by far and should retire, even though he had a 20HR/100RBI season.

[lefty]

Beisbol is hard.














To watch

[djohn2oo8]

lol Kickball.
lol 90 minutes of running around for a tie
lol Boring.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Povertyball fans really are gluttons for punishment. I guess it makes sense, since they willingly sit through such a boring excuse for a "sport."

How many times will these brainlets get owned by baseball fans before they learn?

[DAF86]

Are you forgetting how fuckin' strong David Ortiz is/was?

Also, DHs are specialist positions, like a goalkeeper. Goalkeepers have had top sprint speeds clocked as low a 16mph (they might be faster, but they don't routinely use their speed). Ortiz reached 16mph in his last season. Goalies need a good vert, quick reaction times, and a strong leg, but DHs need quicker reaction times, shitload of pure strength (yeah, Ortiz's 6'3" linebacker frame is a product of his hand-eye coordination :lol), and some speed. DHs who can't run are worthless. Pujols was the worst player in the league by far and should retire, even though he had a 20HR/100RBI season.

Oh yeah, I was forgetting: hand-eye coordination and eat your way to some mass. :lol

[dfens]

@midnightcuck nigga stop spamming with useless shit. you're dumb as fuck and everybody knows it, cheeky faggot smh.

[spurraider21]

aimlessly kicking a soccer ball as hard as you can and hoping to score a goal.
sounds like a messi penalty shot in a big game tbh

[hater]

Hard to catch a fly ball while carrying a bag of sunflower seeds tbqh

Lardassballers should add a fanny pack to their uniform so they can store their snacks before raising their arm to attempt a catch

[dfens]

sounds like a messi penalty shot in a big game tbh

http://i49.tinypic.com/24xnpkm.jpg

xavi and iniesta not playing for argentina :cry :cry :cry

[Clipper Nation]

http://i49.tinypic.com/24xnpkm.jpg

xavi and iniesta not playing for argentina :cry :cry :cry
Just think: Messi is the GOAT of your "sport" :lmao

[DAF86]

Hard to catch a fly ball while carrying a bag of sunflower seeds tbqh

Lardassballers should add a fanny pack to their uniform so they can store their snacks before raising their arm to attempt a catch

:lol

I could probably play a game as a right fielder for an MLB team without hindering its chances of winning too much. Just catch the 3 or 4 fly balls that go that way and be 0 for 4 as the 9th batter. :lol

[Silver&Black]

"Sports" that don't have guys jacking each other off in the shower >>>>> "Sports" that do have guys jacking each other off in the shower

[dfens]

Just think: Messi is the GOAT of your "sport" :lmao

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao this retard can't even troll .. no son, he's not even top 3.

also it's not like jordan was 1-9 without pippen, lebron's chokes, kobe's horrible series and chucking, etc .. everybody has fails, messi's career is on par with jordan's, you're just too dumb to even know wtf is going on in soccer.

and lol using "sport" when besides the brainless us of maga a all countries in the world have it at their #1 sport. your football is a 4h commercial run scattered with 10 minutes of play where 2 groups of obese monkeys try to outnig one another. all of them have brain trauma and the intellect of an uninspired primate :lmao tbh i can't even laugh. if not for basketball the usa wouldn't even have sports.

also lmao getting drilled in the ass by japan and cuba at beisball, you'd too probably get cucked by south africa/new zealand if they'd ever decide to play football.

see y'all boys in 2030 when I heard on this forum that you'll contend for the wc :lmao:lmao:lmao maybe the shitter tbh :lmao

[dfens]

"Sports" that don't have guys jacking each other off in the shower >>>>> "Sports" that do have guys jacking each other off in the shower

son lakers had magic and the spurs had jim .. just saying tbh.

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao this retard can't even troll .. no son, he's not even top 3.

also it's not like jordan was 1-9 without pippen, lebron's chokes, kobe's horrible series and chucking, etc .. everybody has fails, messi's career is on par with jordan's, you're just too dumb to even know wtf is going on in soccer.
The difference between Jordan/LeBron and Messi is that Jordan and LeBron play an actual sport and aren't midgets.

[140]

Just think: Messi is the GOAT of your "sport" :lmao
N:lol

[Xevious]

OP has obviously never played baseball with apalisoc_9.

https://www.anchoragemuseum.org/media/5650/2015_homefield_12.jpg
:lol

[dfens]

The difference between Jordan/LeBron and Messi is that Jordan and LeBron play an actual sport and aren't midgets.

lebronze and jordan play in small market sport that is marketed to hipsters and homeless negros where flopping gets you mvps. missi >>> lebronze + jordan combined in terms of revenue, impact, interest etc ... literally they are dwarfed by a midget :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Oh yeah, I was forgetting: hand-eye coordination and eat your way to some mass. :lol

Pure fat doesn't translate into strength. You really need to try harder.

[midnightpulp]

:lol

I could probably play a game as a right fielder for an MLB team without hindering its chances of winning too much. Just catch the 3 or 4 fly balls that go that way and be 0 for 4 as the 9th batter. :lol

You wouldn't be able to catch a fly ball with that kind of consistency, much less run down gappers with your soccer speed (slower than MLB players on average). You at starting at 1:00


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp5nK8i6UEE

And going 0-4 does massively hinder your team's chances of winning.

[pgardn]

:lol

I could probably play a game as a right fielder for an MLB team without hindering its chances of winning too much. Just catch the 3 or 4 fly balls that go that way and be 0 for 4 as the 9th batter. :lol

Just like if you got red carded and were out of the way not cluttering up the field for your soccer team.

[midnightpulp]

Just like if you got red card and were out of the way not cluttering up the field for your soccer team.

:lol. I forgot about that. A team can literally play one man down for an entire match and still compete. So, theoretically, any average schulb can be the 11th man and not massively hurt his team's chances of winning the game.


There are plenty of such matches in football, where a team with ten men have gone on to win the match against a full football team.

The most nail-biting one of it all, that I've seen live is the 2012, Champions League Semi -final, between Barcelona and Chelsea at Camp Nou. John Terry was sent off in the 37th minute.

So you could've put me in for John Terry and Chelsea still would've won. I would just make sure to stay out of the way, of course. Difference compared to baseball is that the schulb can't choose to stay out the way. He has to take his ABs and field balls that are hit to him.

Killshot. You tried, DAF86

[DAF86]

:lol. I forgot about that. A team can literally play one man down for an entire match and still compete. So, theoretically, any average schulb can be the 11th man and not massively hurt his team's chances of winning the game.



So you could've put me in for John Terry and Chelsea still would've won. I would just make sure to stay out of the way, of course. Difference compared to baseball is that the schulb can't choose to stay out the way. He has to take his ABs and field balls that are hit to him.

Killshot. You tried, DAF86

Except all these things:

-a guy getting red carded on soccer hinders the chances of a team a hell of a lot more than a guy going hitless on a baseball game. A hell of a lot more.

-having a man down on soccer is less detrimental than having any average Joe playing. If you are a man down, you know you are a man down and you play a certain way to try and make up for it. Having a weak link that commits silly mistakes and/or gets eaten alive by the opposition at any given opportunity is very difficult to deal with.

Also, trying to pretend like rutine flyballs are hard. :lol

I've played baseball before son, with guys that used to hit it pretty far up and it's really not that hard. I doubt MLB flyballs can get much more difficult. Heck on that video you showed, that fucking goofy athletic-less looking guy made a catch on the first try that made a MLB player clap. :lol

[midnightpulp]

Except all these things:

-a guy getting red carded on soccer hinders the chances of a team a hell of a lot more than a guy going hitless on a baseball game. A hell of a lot more.

Proof? As it stands, soccer is the only major sport in the world where a team is penalized by having to send a man off for the rest of the match, and yet, team's win/hold serve all the fuckin' time despite that disadvantage. You can't spin your way out of this with bullshit qualitative arguments. Quite literally, 10 men can beat 11, which means an average Joe being on the field as the 11th wouldn't impact overall winning chances as much as in other sports. Again, I could hide in soccer by just standing out of bounds. You can't hide in baseball. You'll be forced to make a play during your AB.


-having a man down on soccer is less detrimental than having any average Joe playing. If you are a man down, you know you are a man down and you play a certain way to try and make up for it. Having a weak link that commits silly mistakes and/or gets eaten alive by the opposition at any given opportunity is very difficult to deal with.


No, the team knowing they have an average Joe on the field would basically play as if they're a man down. They would tell the Joe to stay away and then play whatever style they use in that situation. So basically, soccer is a sport (the only sport I know of) where you have the ability to mitigate such a disadvantage. This speaks to soccer's terrible game design. Why doesn't any other major sport impose this man down penalty (hockey does, but only for 2 minutes)? Because it would turn the match into a lopsided farce.


I've played baseball before son, with guys that used to hit it pretty far up and it's really not that hard. I doubt MLB flyballs can get much more difficult. Heck on that video you showed, that fucking goofy athletic-less looking guy made a catch on the first try that made a MLB player clap. :lol



Whiffle ball games don't count. I also stopped taking seriously your personal opinions on baseball when you said that an MLB player could probably produce a decent on base percentage by never swinging since pitchers aren't accurate enough to throw enough strikes to offset that strategy. The basis for your opinion? Argentine "baseball players" you supposedly played with who could never throw strikes. :lmao

Just stop talking about a sport you have a very, very limited understanding of. I don't talk out of my ass about soccer. You probably think I do, but I always back up my opinions with facts (i.e. this 10 vs. 11 situation that suggests that one player doesn't have as much impact during a single match as in other sports).

[midnightpulp]

And a final nail into DAF's retarded "I won't hinder an MLBs team's chances too much by playing in the outfield and going 0-4 every time" argument.

Albert Pujols, one of the greatest baseball players in history, was 4 wins and 39 runs worse than the average MLB player last season in 149 games. This means that when he was in the lineup, the Angels were .26 runs worse. And he didn't have a chance to further negatively impact matters on the defensive end. The Angels averaged 4.38 runs per game, meaning Pujols in the lineup basically makes them a 6% worse team. And he hit 23 homeruns and drove in 101, which used to be an All Star level season before the advent of advanced metrics. There's no way to do the math here, but an average Joe going 0-4 every time is infinitely worse and would MASSIVELY impact a team's winning chances (in the context of sports, a single player being responsible for a 6% dip in team production is a huge fuckin' blow. That's like a basketball player having a -6.00 RPM. Only one player in the NBA had that low of an RPM last year). Not to mention how many runs this average Joe would give up defensively.

If a 23hr/101rbi season can make a team 6% worse, just how bad do you think a .000/00/00 season from a regular player would make a team? Could they win a few games if the pitching is shutdown and every other batter gets hot? Probably. Same with the NBA/NHL/NFL. If Curry, KD, Klay are on, the 5th man could be an Average Joe and they'd still win a few fluke games.

That said, in soccer we have crystal clear evidence that an Average Joe in the lineup wouldn't always mean defeat, as in the countless times 10 beat 11. And again, changing tactics doesn't matter. The Average Joe could go take a nap out of bounds and his team would play as if they were down a man.

[pookenstein]

Indeed. That's the killshot in the "soccer is so demanding" debate. Hotshot "prodigies" sometimes don't make it out of Low-A ball, while loads of 18 year old soccer players make their debuts in the biggest leagues and have productive seasons. Now, the soccer crew will counter that soccer is a young man's game while baseball is a an old man's game, but the aging curves are about identical.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qehMjpM_5bo/UqzRxOxB8EI/AAAAAAAACnc/K-NZq_d7j1E/s1600/The+Football+Aging+Curve.PNG

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tQrZjhZDQ8g/V6PX-0SUvZI/AAAAAAAAE_0/a70NRlS8Ocg62DQkhcNmKzgevRwze7ZAwCLcB/s1600/Baseball%2BCurve.png

But they run around or something.

Before readig the post I thought this graph showed the MS paint drawing of the average Baseball Players belly.

[dfens]

Before readig the post I thought this graph showed the MS paint drawing of the average Baseball Players belly.

:lmao maybe in logarithmic scale tbh.

[DAF86]

Proof? As it stands, soccer is the only major sport in the world where a team is penalized by having to send a man off for the rest of the match, and yet, team's win/hold serve all the fuckin' time despite that disadvantage. You can't spin your way out of this with bullshit qualitative arguments. Quite literally, 10 men can beat 11, which means an average Joe being on the field as the 11th wouldn't impact overall winning chances as much as in other sports. Again, I could hide in soccer by just standing out of bounds. You can't hide in baseball. You'll be forced to make a play during your AB.

Teams that play with a man down lose the vast majority of the time, whereas in baseball games multiple guys are constantly going hitless. How much more simple do you want it than that? :lol


No, the team knowing they have an average Joe on the field would basically play as if they're a man down. They would tell the Joe to stay away and then play whatever style they use in that situation. So basically, soccer is a sport (the only sport I know of) where you have the ability to mitigate such a disadvantage. This speaks to soccer's terrible game design. Why doesn't any other major sport impose this man down penalty (hockey does, but only for 2 minutes)? Because it would turn the match into a lopsided farce.

There are several games where you are left with a man down son: hockey, rugby, handball, etc. All way more entertaining and better than baseball. That's what you can do with sports where you actually have to move and run.


Whiffle ball games don't count. I also stopped taking seriously your personal opinions on baseball when you said that an MLB player could probably produce a decent on base percentage by never swinging since pitchers aren't accurate enough to throw enough strikes to offset that strategy. The basis for your opinion? Argentine "baseball players" you supposedly played with who could never throw strikes. :lmao

Whiffle ball games or not a flyball is a flyball and that shit isn't really hard to do, tbh. :lol


Just stop talking about a sport you have a very, very limited understanding of. I don't talk out of my ass about soccer. You probably think I do, but I always back up my opinions with facts (i.e. this 10 vs. 11 situation that suggests that one player doesn't have as much impact during a single match as in other sports).


soccer is the only major sport in the world where a team is penalized by having to send a man off for the rest of the match, and yet, team's win/hold serve all the fuckin' time despite that disadvantage.

:lmao

[DAF86]

And a final nail into DAF's retarded "I won't hinder an MLBs team's chances too much by playing in the outfield and going 0-4 every time" argument.

Albert Pujols, one of the greatest baseball players in history, was 4 wins and 39 runs worse than the average MLB player last season in 149 games. This means that when he was in the lineup, the Angels were .26 runs worse. And he didn't have a chance to further negatively impact matters on the defensive end. The Angels averaged 4.38 runs per game, meaning Pujols in the lineup basically makes them a 6% worse team. And he hit 23 homeruns and drove in 101, which used to be an All Star level season before the advent of advanced metrics. There's no way to do the math here, but an average Joe going 0-4 every time is infinitely worse and would MASSIVELY impact a team's winning chances (in the context of sports, a single player being responsible for a 6% dip in team production is a huge fuckin' blow. That's like a basketball player having a -6.00 RPM. Only one player in the NBA had that low of an RPM last year). Not to mention how many runs this average Joe would give up defensively.

If a 23hr/101rbi season can make a team 6% worse, just how bad do you think a .000/00/00 season from a regular player would make a team? Could they win a few games if the pitching is shutdown and every other batter gets hot? Probably. Same with the NBA/NHL/NFL. If Curry, KD, Klay are on, the 5th man could be an Average Joe and they'd still win a few fluke games.

That said, in soccer we have crystal clear evidence that an Average Joe in the lineup wouldn't always mean defeat, as in the countless times 10 beat 11. And again, changing tactics doesn't matter. The Average Joe could go take a nap out of bounds and his team would play as if they were down a man.

I was talking about a single game, tbh.

But anyways, if you want to take it to a whole season the point still remains: An average joe playing an entire season with a baseball team would be less detrimental than an average joe playing an entire season with a soccer team.

[Canyonero]

N:lol

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Magic+Johnson+Cristiano+Ronaldo+Celebrities+-GHeF06L3QUl.jpg

[dfens]

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Magic+Johnson+Cristiano+Ronaldo+Celebrities+-GHeF06L3QUl.jpg

what went down there tbh... :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[spurraider21]

https://media.giphy.com/media/rnm4TpzG30F8Y/giphy.gif

[pookenstein]

:lmao maybe in logarithmic scale tbh.

:lmao

[dfens]

https://media.giphy.com/media/rnm4TpzG30F8Y/giphy.gif

jim duncan.gif

[Bill_Brasky]

Soccer fans have to be the most insecure bunch out there. Give it up, we don't care about your boring ass sport and we never will.

[Bill_Brasky]

Fifa is fun to play tho

[midnightpulp]

I was talking about a single game, tbh.

But anyways, if you want to take it to a whole season the point still remains: An average joe playing an entire season with a baseball team would be less detrimental than an average joe playing an entire season with a soccer team.

Numbers disagree, as usual. On that note, where's your stats showing the win percentage/win expectancy of teams facing a one man deficit? That's right. You don't have any, per usual.

[midnightpulp]

Teams that play with a man down lose the vast majority of the time, whereas in baseball games multiple guys are constantly going hitless. How much more simple do you want it than that? :lol

Again, numbers, stats, something besides your bullshit qualitative arguments. And once again, you show your lack of understanding how baseball works. Do you not understand what a 100% guaranteed free out would do to a lineup? It's not the same as a legit player going 0-4.


There are several games where you are left with a man down son: hockey, rugby, handball, etc. All way more entertaining and better than baseball. That's what you can do with sports where you actually have to move and run.

Not for the entire game, at least in hockey. I don't watch those other two shitty sports, though.


Whiffle ball games or not a flyball is a flyball and that shit isn't really hard to do, tbh. :lol

Sure :lol

[lefty]

Just think: Messi is the GOAT of your "sport" :lmao
Except he isn't

[DAF86]

Again, numbers, stats, something besides your bullshit qualitative arguments. And once again, you show your lack of understanding how baseball works. Do you not understand what a 100% guaranteed free out would do to a lineup? It's not the same as a legit player going 0-4.



Not for the entire game, at least in hockey. I don't watch those other two shitty sports, though.



Sure :lol

I can't find any numbers but i can tell you from experience, why don't you post some numbers?

[midnightpulp]

I can't find any numbers but i can tell you from experience, why don't you post some numbers?

You made the claim. Onus is on you. I simply countered your idea that an "average Joe" wouldn't affect a team's winning chances on a per game basis that much. Pujols example again. Him in the lineup (and only in the offensive portion of the lineup) reduces his team's production by .26 runs per game or about 6%. Let's put that 6% in a context you can understand. The Boston Celtics currently have a +4.5 point differential, averaging 102 points per game. A 6% hit in production to that team would bring down their per game average to about 96 points per game, translating into around a -2 point differential per game. Yes, a 6% dip affects winning chances that much.

And to reiterate, an Average Joe in the lineup on both offense and defense isn't at any all similar to a legit player. Even when legit players go hitless, they can still work pitch counts, trigger pitching changes, etc. An average Joe, being a 100% free out, would mean teams could attack other parts of the lineup more aggressively and pitch around others to ensure the Average Joe has more ABs in leverage situations (i.e. walking players to get to the average Joe). Defensively, a team knowing they have a schulb in right would be forced to do things like play their 2nd baseman deeper, shift their centerfielder over to the gap, it would take away half the strikezone from pitchers and limit their attack versatility. In you little Messi video, we saw he accelerated on the level of an NFL running back. Guess what? You want to play the outfield, you need that same acceleration. :lol thinking every fly is "routine."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31VIvj7R12I

Honestly, I have no idea what is a larger deficit: Average Joe in an MLB lineup, Average Joe in a pro soccer lineup. Given the similar roster sizes in both sports, I would say the win expectancy is probably similar. I'm just debunking your claim that you in the lineup wouldn't affect winning chances that much. If Pujols on offense alone is responsible for a 6% decline, imagine how an Average Joe would affect things.

[dfens]

Soccer fans have to be the most insecure bunch out there. Give it up, we don't care about your boring ass sport and we never will.

so the viewership stats show it, yet you come here saying the stats are wrong ("nobody cares") and that we are insecure for just pointing out reality :lmao

see this https://www.forbes.com/sites/filipbondy/2018/01/08/soccer-will-soon-be-americas-third-favorite-spectator-sport/#738977093c53

[midnightpulp]

so the viewership stats show it, yet you come here saying the stats are wrong ("nobody cares") and that we are insecure for just pointing out reality :lmao

see this https://www.forbes.com/sites/filipbondy/2018/01/08/soccer-will-soon-be-americas-third-favorite-spectator-sport/#738977093c53

No they don't. See my latest reply in the other thread. And the info you linked is full of shit. If you can't see the flaw in that polling methodology to gauge overall fan interest in a sport, I don't know what to say. Even the author admits such.


Not all is cut-and-dried. There are several important caveats that should be mentioned regarding these numbers. For one thing, Gallup did not ask participants to list their favorite sports in descending order. Perhaps few respondents who chose football as their No. 1 sport even bother to follow soccer at all, and might follow basketball or baseball. And none of the top three sports appear on their death bed. Major League Baseball, in particular, has made strides in attendance and TV ratings recently, demonstrating some zip in the old pastime after all.

Gallup's more comprehensive poll (also done this year) shows just that.

http://news.gallup.com/poll/220562/pro-football-losing-fans-sports-holding-steady.aspx?g_source=SPORTS&g_medium=topic&g_campaign=tiles

The MLS gets crushed in fan interest by other (superior) sports, as well.

http://oi66.tinypic.com/2ni8hn5.jpg

"But EPL, La Liga, International soccer!"

EPL: Women's golf numbers.
La Liga ratings: Late night bowling numbers.
International soccer (outside of the world cup): Pro Lumberjack level ratings.

Where are these "huge viewership" numbers than portend soccer's exponential growth into a major pro sport?

[Clipper Nation]

Except he isn't
:lol Yes, he is. And it's proof that povertyball isn't a "sport." In a real sport, a midget could never be the GOAT.

[Clipper Nation]

LeGOAT: 6'8"
Jim Brown: 6'2"
Barry Bonds: 6'2"
Gretzky: 6'0"

Messi: 5'7" :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[midnightpulp]

LeGOAT: 6'8"
Jim Brown: 6'2"
Barry Bonds: 6'2"
Gretzky: 6'0"

Messi: 5'7" :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

They might also say Maradona is the GOAT, and he's like 5'2" (real height). Messi is probably around 5'5" real height, since they measure in shoes today. I don't hate, though. Short people need sports they can become GOAT at, too.

[DAF86]

You made the claim. Onus is on you. I simply countered your idea that an "average Joe" wouldn't affect a team's winning chances on a per game basis that much. Pujols example again. Him in the lineup (and only in the offensive portion of the lineup) reduces his team's production by .26 runs per game or about 6%. Let's put that 6% in a context you can understand. The Boston Celtics currently have a +4.5 point differential, averaging 102 points per game. A 6% hit in production to that team would bring down their per game average to about 96 points per game, translating into around a -2 point differential per game. Yes, a 6% dip affects winning chances that much.

And to reiterate, an Average Joe in the lineup on both offense and defense isn't at any all similar to a legit player. Even when legit players go hitless, they can still work pitch counts, trigger pitching changes, etc. An average Joe, being a 100% free out, would mean teams could attack other parts of the lineup more aggressively and pitch around others to ensure the Average Joe has more ABs in leverage situations (i.e. walking players to get to the average Joe). Defensively, a team knowing they have a schulb in right would be forced to do things like play their 2nd baseman deeper, shift their centerfielder over to the gap, it would take away half the strikezone from pitchers and limit their attack versatility. In you little Messi video, we saw he accelerated on the level of an NFL running back. Guess what? You want to play the outfield, you need that same acceleration. :lol thinking every fly is "routine."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31VIvj7R12I

Honestly, I have no idea what is a larger deficit: Average Joe in an MLB lineup, Average Joe in a pro soccer lineup. Given the similar roster sizes in both sports, I would say the win expectancy is probably similar. I'm just debunking your claim that you in the lineup wouldn't affect winning chances that much. If Pujols on offense alone is responsible for a 6% decline, imagine how an Average Joe would affect things.

Except that wasn't my original comment and you know it. You just started to talk about an entire season to make it fit into your argument.

And no, I don't need to bring any numbers to make the claim that teams that get players sent off lose the vast majority of the time, if you weren't talking out of your ass, like you claim you aren't doing, you would know this.

[midnightpulp]

Except that wasn't my original comment and you know it. You just started to talk about an entire season to make it fit into your argument.

And no, I don't need to bring any numbers to make the claim that teams that get players sent off lose the vast majority of the time, if you weren't talking out of your ass, like you claim you aren't doing, you would know this.

Read again. I clarified "per game." A 6% knock to overall team production per game is that much, and that was from a player who hit 22hrs/101 rbis who doesn't even play defense.

I never said teams that have players sent off don't lose the vast majority of the time. I said there's countless examples of teams that incur that situation winning the game or holding serve, which you can't claim for baseball since baseball doesn't send players off, so we really can't quantify it. Best we can do is look how shitty players (like Pujols) affect production on a per game basis and extrapolate from there.

Just admit that you were talking out of your ass saying sticking you in right field wouldn't "hinder a team's winning chances that much" and we can move on. You would not catch routine fly balls with a +95 percentage. You would not be able to convert 2, 3, 4, 5 star defensive opportunities into outs. Matt Kemp's defensive ineptitude cost his team .12 runs per game last season (a 12th of a run). And he was a Gold Glove winner not too long ago. Just imagine how many runs you or some average Joe would give up on defense? Could your team pick up your non-existent slack? Sure. But same can be said for any team sport, especially ones with bigger rosters.

[DAF86]

Read again. I clarified "per game." A 6% knock to overall team production per game is that much, and that was from a player who hit 22hrs/101 rbis who doesn't even play defense.

I never said teams that have players sent off don't lose the vast majority of the time. I said there's countless examples of teams that incur that situation winning the game or holding serve, which you can't claim for baseball since baseball doesn't send players off, so we really can't quantify it. Best we can do is look how shitty players (like Pujols) affect production on a per game basis and extrapolate from there.

Just admit that you were talking out of your ass saying sticking you in right field wouldn't "hinder a team's winning chances that much" and we can move on. You would not catch routine fly balls with a +95 percentage. You would not be able to convert 2, 3, 4, 5 star defensive opportunities into outs. Matt Kemp's defensive ineptitude cost his team .12 runs per game last season (a 12th of a run). And he was a Gold Glove winner not too long ago. Just imagine how many runs you or some average Joe would give up on defense? Could your team pick up your non-existent slack? Sure. But same can be said for any team sport, especially ones with bigger rosters.


Proof? As it stands, soccer is the only major sport in the world where a team is penalized by having to send a man off for the rest of the match, and yet, team's win/hold serve all the fuckin' time despite that disadvantage.

Also, multipe players go hitless on a game and teams win those games anyway, so no, the sending off of a player can't be compared to going 0-4 which is what you first tried to do to counter muy original comment.

Just admit it son: on baseball is much easier to make up for the presente of a non professional player.

[dfens]

LeGOAT: 6'8"
Jim Brown: 6'2"
Barry Bonds: 6'2"
Gretzky: 6'0"

Messi: 5'7" :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Tbh civilized countries play sports where teamwork and intelligence are more important than nigging. Since nigs can't work together and also can't think too much (probably hard with all that NFL brain damage) y'all left with a sport played by nigs for a nig audience in a nig country tbh.

[midnightpulp]

Also, multipe players go hitless on a game and teams win those games anyway, so no, the sending off of a player can't be compared to going 0-4 which is what you first tried to do to counter muy original comment.

Just admit it son: on baseball is much easier to make up for the presente of a non professional player.

0-4 doesn't mean non-impact. A professional going 0-4 (or many going 0-4) isn't the same fuckin' thing as an average Joe going 0-4 or there being no one in the lineup at all. Get it through your head.

And even if the bolded is true, what's that supposed to prove? That baseball is more of a team sport (it would be if the team could better make up for the presence of a non-pro)? Great argument there. Try thinking about the stupid shit you want say before you press the keyboard.

Oh, we finally got some numbers:


Home teams won an average of 1.69 points per game across the four seasons Greenberg analysed when a match was 11 versus 11.

When the away team went down to 10 men, home teams won an average of 2.05 points per game - a difference of 0.36 points.

However, when the home team had a player sent off the average number of points they won was 0.83 - a difference of 0.86 points.

Greenberg thinks a home team suffers badly when it has a player sent off because the pressure not to lose in front of its own fans is so great.

The away team, on the other hand, is not expected to win - so when it gains an extra player it is emboldened to attack and try to win the game.

Some rough math:

Away team loses man, they are 21% less likely to come away with a win/tie.

Home team loses man, they are 51% less likely to come away with a win/tie.

Overall, it appears a team is 36% worse (win percentage wise, not production wise). when they play with a man down. Furthermore, we don't know the context of those situations. A man could've sent off while his team was down/up 2 or 3 goals, so his absence wouldn't have likely affected the outcome either way. I wish we could see how a man down impacts goal expectancy and goals allowed expectancy. That would be a better gauge.

Keith Hernandez's 0-5 performance in this game made his team 75% worse per win probability added (that basically means if the Mets were 50/50 to win the game prior, Hernandez's performance shifted that number to 86/14 in favor of the Phillies. That's a bigger win probability drop than when the home team loses a man in soccer). Now you see how bad 0-4, 0-5 (especially if those non-productive ABs come in leverage situations, which our proverbial Joe would be forced into) can be in a semi-vacuum.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN198508140.shtml

And Keith had no defensive fuckups this game. Doesn't look like your last sentence holds any factual water at all, per par with you.

[midnightpulp]

Tbh civilized countries play sports where teamwork and intelligence are more important than nigging. Since nigs can't work together and also can't think too much (probably hard with all that NFL brain damage) y'all left with a sport played by nigs for a nig audience in a nig country tbh.

The most violent countries in the world have soccer as their number 1 sport :lol

And :lol Western Europe "civilized." Who started all them World Wars, genocided people, etc?

[140]

:lol murika is by far the country that kills the most people in the world, especially innocents which is their specialty tbh

[diego]

i :lol everytime midnight and co compare bolivian leagues and MLS to MLB... that is like maybe, optimistically, top 40-50 level of soccer, as in there are that many leagues with more viewership and higher salaries. It would be akin to citing AAU or even rec league as an equivalent to the NBA.

also, teenagers playing in soccer has nothing to do with them being ready, on the contrary. Its purely economical. I dont feel like teaching you the difference between salary structures, transfers, formation rights, etc etc etc, but small soccer teams are basically farm teams for big ones, they survive by developing and selling players, they dont have american sports socialism in caps and redistributions and drafts to save them. They have every incentive to make kids look like pros so they can sell them off, that list you posted are a bunch of nobodies. The fact is that none of the teenage phenoms in soccer ever did anything more than a fancy highlight here or there (messi, ronaldihno, etc), later on they grew up and accomplished things but its not like 16 year old are top players in top leagues, the closest you could come to that is pre injury Ronaldo and even that one is iffy because barcelona werent good enough for UCL and he was already 20 by then. ronaldo, dihno, messi, pele, all of these guys got to there national teams as teenagers and warmed the bench for older players. if you find a guy actually starting every game under 20 for a national team, its either because that team sucks and they are hoping that exposing that kid will allow him to keep improving, or his agent is bribing the coach / federation to inflate his clients price.

[midnightpulp]

i :lol everytime midnight and co compare bolivian leagues and MLS to MLB... that is like maybe, optimistically, top 40-50 level of soccer, as in there are that many leagues with more viewership and higher salaries. It would be akin to citing AAU or even rec league as an equivalent to the NBA.

also, teenagers playing in soccer has nothing to do with them being ready, on the contrary. Its purely economical. I dont feel like teaching you the difference between salary structures, transfers, formation rights, etc etc etc, but small soccer teams are basically farm teams for big ones, they survive by developing and selling players, they dont have american sports socialism in caps and redistributions and drafts to save them. They have every incentive to make kids look like pros so they can sell them off, that list you posted are a bunch of nobodies. The fact is that none of the teenage phenoms in soccer ever did anything more than a fancy highlight here or there (messi, ronaldihno, etc), later on they grew up and accomplished things but its not like 16 year old are top players in top leagues, the closest you could come to that is pre injury Ronaldo and even that one is iffy because barcelona werent good enough for UCL and he was already 20 by then. ronaldo, dihno, messi, pele, all of these guys got to there national teams as teenagers and warmed the bench for older players. if you find a guy actually starting every game under 20 for a national team, its either because that team sucks and they are hoping that exposing that kid will allow him to keep improving, or his agent is bribing the coach / federation to inflate his clients price.

I'm not comparing any Bolivian League to anything. Those 16-17 year old debuts were EPL players. And Jack Wilshere is pretty good. Also, the Latin American baseball infrastructure operates exactly the same as the soccer academy infrastructure, with feeder teams/camps and such "making their prospects look good" so they can get sold off to MLB clubs. And they are often signed as young as 16, but they likely won't debut until 19 at the earliest. You also don't know much about the MLB. It doesn't have a salary cap and a franchise's future outlook is entirely dependent on how well they develop players in their respective farm systems. There's 3 to 6 levels of baseball to get through before you're even considered for a call up.

Does this prove one sport is "harder" than the other? Of course not. "Harder" is relative (i.e. a 12 year old Messi would find soccer easier than baseball because his body type is tailormade for the game [this is assuming he hasn't played either sport yet], a lanky 12 year old Clayton Kershaw would find baseball easier than soccer) and impossible to quantify. I just like challenging you and the soccercrew's dumb ass arguments that only judge the difficulty of a sport by how much running around (or in soccer's case, jogging around) there is. When we look at the facts, like aging curves and development times, the sports seem to be equally difficult.

[dfens]

:lol murika is by far the country that kills the most people in the world, especially innocents which is their specialty tbh

but everywhere they went they brought prosperity and democracy, look at all these democracies with human rights and high living standards: iraq/syria/afghanistan/lybia/yemen/somalia :cry:cry:cry


i :lol everytime midnight and co compare bolivian leagues and MLS to MLB... that is like maybe, optimistically, top 40-50 level of soccer, as in there are that many leagues with more viewership and higher salaries. It would be akin to citing AAU or even rec league as an equivalent to the NBA.

also, teenagers playing in soccer has nothing to do with them being ready, on the contrary. Its purely economical. I dont feel like teaching you the difference between salary structures, transfers, formation rights, etc etc etc, but small soccer teams are basically farm teams for big ones, they survive by developing and selling players, they dont have american sports socialism in caps and redistributions and drafts to save them. They have every incentive to make kids look like pros so they can sell them off, that list you posted are a bunch of nobodies. The fact is that none of the teenage phenoms in soccer ever did anything more than a fancy highlight here or there (messi, ronaldihno, etc), later on they grew up and accomplished things but its not like 16 year old are top players in top leagues, the closest you could come to that is pre injury Ronaldo and even that one is iffy because barcelona werent good enough for UCL and he was already 20 by then. ronaldo, dihno, messi, pele, all of these guys got to there national teams as teenagers and warmed the bench for older players. if you find a guy actually starting every game under 20 for a national team, its either because that team sucks and they are hoping that exposing that kid will allow him to keep improving, or his agent is bribing the coach / federation to inflate his clients price.

son midnight's hobby is to scour fag pornographic sites ... wasting your breath tbh.

[dfens]

The most violent countries in the world have soccer as their number 1 sport :lol

And :lol Western Europe "civilized." Who started all them World Wars, genocided people, etc?


The most violent countries in the world have soccer as their number 1 sport :lol

And :lol Western Europe "civilized." Who started all them World Wars, genocided people, etc?

without us there would be no modern math/engineering/medicine/education/space exploration/liberties and rights/women rights/navies/armies/modern economies/philosophy/renaissance/tv/internet/atomic energy/basketball/football/hot blondes/proper sanitation/street lighting.
without us modern society does not exist.
without us y'all would either slaves/niggas living in caves/sacrificing hearts to a snakegod.

small price to pay tbh.



Also usa is basically russia at this point tbh, Russians at least are nice people. tbh.

http://i.imgur.com/1jOEwlH.jpg

[Pelicans78]

without us there would be no modern math/engineering/medicine/education/space exploration/liberties and rights/women rights/navies/armies/modern economies/philosophy/renaissance/tv/internet/atomic energy/basketball/football/hot blondes/proper sanitation/street lighting.
without us modern society does not exist.
without us y'all would either slaves/niggas living in caves/sacrificing hearts to a snakegod.

small price to pay tbh.



Also usa is basically russia at this point tbh, Russians at least are nice people. tbh.

http://i.imgur.com/1jOEwlH.jpg

You keep saying "we" like you had anything to do with it. "You" are just a randon internet poster who sounds like a little bitch constantly trying to defend something for which you didn't help achieve while butchering the facts most of the time. Only an insecure clown would constanty try to defend something you had nothing to do with. It's basically like fans bragging about their favorite sport teams.

[dfens]

You keep saying "we" like you had anything to do with it. "You" are just a randon internet poster who sounds like a little bitch constantly trying to defend something for which you didn't help achieve while butchering the facts most of the time. Only an insecure clown would constanty try to defend something you had nothing to do with. It's basically like fans bragging about their favorite sport teams.

son this isn't "we the lakers have 16 rings" .. this is we the white people who get up early in the morning and work our asses off to invent shit, provide jobs, educate ourselves and keep our communities free of crime, who have no time to protest and who generally don't work minimum wage jobs. I am one of these people so please shut the fuck up, I'm doing just that. The fact that I enjoy wasting my time here talking superficial shit to some burger king employees doesn't invalidate reality.

And what's distorted tbh ?
didn't my ancestors bring all that to the world ? they did.
aren't we, the white civilization, bringing you this today? who invents most things and pushes forward technologically? just look at patents/publishing/production in any industry and you have your answer. look at all the high skill positions. look at all the truly difficult work.
who innovates society with strong regulations and social programs? look at europe for medical/legal/police/public works/etc systems unparalleled on the planet (/w rare exceptions like japan).
doesn't germany invent and produce high quality stuff? aren't we world leaders in automobiles/solar&green energy/engineering/high tech/etc? damn right.
don't we bail out entire countries? yes we do
do you see us going at war for fun? or threatening societies just because we can? or just being aggresive assholes like merica/russia/china/saudis? NO.
don't we do enormous humanitarian acts ? europe full of refugees because we are too kind ..
doesn't germany have an egalitarian society with extensive rights? you can't fire on the spot here son, the workplace isn't toxic like in the states, legal system isn't a pay to win joke, etc.
do you hear of homeless or dying of hunger germans? almost never.
do you thing we waste our time with cretinism like "safe space"? :lol
have we not true modern political system? not like the shit you got over there, no oligarhic trash, no commies.
don't we have some of the best wealth distribution economics? we do and we are improving them.
do you see us in the news discussing "maybe we should invade yemen, or maybe syria, or maybe egypt, we not sure lol :lol"? we don't need to divert the attention of our people from a shitty life tbh, life is good here.
aren't our news some of the most unbiased information sources on the planet? which newspapers were chosen (because of impartiality) to break the largest global money laundering schemes? SDZ.
don't we have strong regulations on economic sectors in order to protect consumers? do you think we sell petrol based gmo'd shit in our supermarkets? do you think we have flint level water?
medicine/space travel/math/physics/philosophy/art/social revolution/modern political systems/democracy+bill of rights/cars/trains/ships/tv/internet/mobile phones/sattellites/human rights ... we did it and we are doing it in an overwhelming contribution compared to the rest.

so wake up to reality son, not all countries are going down the drain into systematic poverty, government corruption, war as a hobby, and a president who embodies all of that. Instead of crying like a mentally weak bitch because your feelings are incompatible with reality, how about just shut the fuck up tbh?


Also, I'll say it again, I've been to both countries enough times to easily say this .. america is closer to russia than to western europe in terms of quality of life, consumer rights, transparency, social issues, crime, illiteracy, gang activity, oligarchies running the show, tainted politics, puppets in key positions and so on.

[lefty]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao this retard can't even troll .. no son, he's not even top 3.

also it's not like jordan was 1-9 without pippen, lebron's chokes, kobe's horrible series and chucking, etc .. everybody has fails, messi's career is on par with jordan's, you're just too dumb to even know wtf is going on in soccer.

and lol using "sport" when besides the brainless us of maga a all countries in the world have it at their #1 sport. your football is a 4h commercial run scattered with 10 minutes of play where 2 groups of obese monkeys try to outnig one another. all of them have brain trauma and the intellect of an uninspired primate :lmao tbh i can't even laugh. if not for basketball the usa wouldn't even have sports.

also lmao getting drilled in the ass by japan and cuba at beisball, you'd too probably get cucked by south africa/new zealand if they'd ever decide to play football.

see y'all boys in 2030 when I heard on this forum that you'll contend for the wc :lmao:lmao:lmao maybe the shitter tbh :lmao

:lmao

[Clipper Nation]

Dfens is the Avante of povertyball, tbh. Dude's typing out long-ass War and Peace novels that nobody's going to read to defend a garbage-ass "sport."

[Pelicans78]

son this isn't "we the lakers have 16 rings" .. this is we the white people who get up early in the morning and work our asses off to invent shit, provide jobs, educate ourselves and keep our communities free of crime, who have no time to protest and who generally don't work minimum wage jobs. I am one of these people so please shut the fuck up, I'm doing just that. The fact that I enjoy wasting my time here talking superficial shit to some burger king employees doesn't invalidate reality.

And what's distorted tbh ?
didn't my ancestors bring all that to the world ? they did.
aren't we, the white civilization, bringing you this today? who invents most things and pushes forward technologically? just look at patents/publishing/production in any industry and you have your answer. look at all the high skill positions. look at all the truly difficult work.
who innovates society with strong regulations and social programs? look at europe for medical/legal/police/public works/etc systems unparalleled on the planet (/w rare exceptions like japan).
doesn't germany invent and produce high quality stuff? aren't we world leaders in automobiles/solar&green energy/engineering/high tech/etc? damn right.
don't we bail out entire countries? yes we do
do you see us going at war for fun? or threatening societies just because we can? or just being aggresive assholes like merica/russia/china/saudis? NO.
don't we do enormous humanitarian acts ? europe full of refugees because we are too kind ..
doesn't germany have an egalitarian society with extensive rights? you can't fire on the spot here son, the workplace isn't toxic like in the states, legal system isn't a pay to win joke, etc.
do you hear of homeless or dying of hunger germans? almost never.
do you thing we waste our time with cretinism like "safe space"? :lol
have we not true modern political system? not like the shit you got over there, no oligarhic trash, no commies.
don't we have some of the best wealth distribution economics? we do and we are improving them.
do you see us in the news discussing "maybe we should invade yemen, or maybe syria, or maybe egypt, we not sure lol :lol"? we don't need to divert the attention of our people from a shitty life tbh, life is good here.
aren't our news some of the most unbiased information sources on the planet? which newspapers were chosen (because of impartiality) to break the largest global money laundering schemes? SDZ.
don't we have strong regulations on economic sectors in order to protect consumers? do you think we sell petrol based gmo'd shit in our supermarkets? do you think we have flint level water?
medicine/space travel/math/physics/philosophy/art/social revolution/modern political systems/democracy+bill of rights/cars/trains/ships/tv/internet/mobile phones/sattellites/human rights ... we did it and we are doing it in an overwhelming contribution compared to the rest.

so wake up to reality son, not all countries are going down the drain into systematic poverty, government corruption, war as a hobby, and a president who embodies all of that. Instead of crying like a mentally weak bitch because your feelings are incompatible with reality, how about just shut the fuck up tbh?


Also, I'll say it again, I've been to both countries enough times to easily say this .. america is closer to russia than to western europe in terms of quality of life, consumer rights, transparency, social issues, crime, illiteracy, gang activity, oligarchies running the show, tainted politics, puppets in key positions and so on.

Wow. I really got you triggered. I made you type out all this which I didn't bother. If it makes you feel better focusing on nationalism, go ahead.

[dfens]

Dfens is the Avante of povertyball, tbh. Dude's typing out long-ass War and Peace novels that nobody's going to read to defend a garbage-ass "sport."

50k posts of pure ignorance .. your reasoning is :lmao.


Wow. I really got you triggered. I made you type out all this which I didn't bother. If it makes you feel better focusing on nationalism, go ahead.

standard millenneal flaking after being called out for a serious post. such a pussy generation smh.

[Pelicans78]

50k posts of pure ignorance .. your reasoning is :lmao.



standard millenneal flaking after being called out for a serious post. such a pussy generation smh.

i was born in the 70s scheizkopf. I'm calling you out because you spent a lot of time patting yourself on the back for something you benefitted from instead contributing to. It's not like you know anything about me but I could easily put you to shame if I wanted. All you do here is post like a little bitch for things you played no part in. So stay in your lane asshole.

[dfens]

i was born in the 70s scheizkopf. I'm calling you out because you spent a lot of time patting yourself on the back for something you benefitted from instead contributing to. It's not like you know anything about me but I could easily put you to shame if I wanted. All you do here is post like a little bitch for things you played no part in. So stay in your lane asshole.

fuck you son tbh, there wasn't water or food in my country 70 years ago and while you faggots where 9-5 on coffee breaks stealing money from many countries with your petrodollar fiat shit currency, we worked our assess in here. Then we integrated eastern germany and paid an absolute obscene amount for that. Then we paid the price for your fucking bubble by bailing out countries singled out by your economic hitmen. So lol at patting myself on the back for doing nothing. I contributed plenty, started out with business in eastern germany, taking people used to a failing system and re-integrating them, re-training, paying a shit load of taxes for low productive workers etc.

So let me re-itereate, while you merrycans where busy voting for fucks like reagan, clinton, bush sr/jr and squandering away what the golden generation gave you, we here were busy solving the remains of the cold war and of predatory capitalism. You played a part in making america a shithole while I played part in making Germany a world power, so please just shut the fuck up tbh.

Also what kind of mental midget uses "triggered" when he's pushing 50. baby boomers smh, no wonder merica is going down the drain with retards like you.

[Pelicans78]

fuck you son tbh, there wasn't water or food in my country 70 years ago and while you faggots where 9-5 on coffee breaks stealing money from many countries with your petrodollar fiat shit currency, we worked our assess in here. Then we integrated eastern germany and paid an absolute obscene amount for that. Then we paid the price for your fucking bubble by bailing out countries singled out by your economic hitmen. So lol at patting myself on the back for doing nothing. I contributed plenty, started out with business in eastern germany, taking people used to a failing system and re-integrating them, re-training, paying a shit load of taxes for low productive workers etc.

So let me re-itereate, while you merrycans where busy voting for fucks like reagan, clinton, bush sr/jr and squandering away what the golden generation gave you, we here were busy solving the remains of the cold war and of predatory capitalism. You played a part in making america a shithole while I played part in making Germany a world power, so please just shut the fuck up tbh.

Also what kind of mental midget uses "triggered" when he's pushing 50. baby boomers smh, no wonder merica is going down the drain with retards like you.

Wow another essay from you about stuff that's not my problem. It's not my fault you guys started two World Wars and had to be punished accordingly. I really don't care for bragging about the American govt but Germany should be thankful George HW Bush pushed for reunification when the rest of the world was afraid of it. Anyway I'm not quite 40 yet so I'm not a baby boomer either. I'm the generation in between two spoiled generations (baby boomers/millennials). Have fun with the American created refugee crisis.

[midnightpulp]

without us there would be no modern math/engineering/medicine/education/space exploration/liberties and rights/women rights/navies/armies/modern economies/philosophy/renaissance/tv/internet/atomic energy/basketball/football/hot blondes/proper sanitation/street lighting.
without us modern society does not exist.
without us y'all would either slaves/niggas living in caves/sacrificing hearts to a snakegod.

small price to pay tbh.



Also usa is basically russia at this point tbh, Russians at least are nice people. tbh.

http://i.imgur.com/1jOEwlH.jpg

Modern math: Greeks and Arabs.
Engineering: Ancient Egyptians. Romans.
Education: Greeks
Philosophy: Greeks
Science: Greeks/Arabs
Internet: USA :hat
Atomic Energy: USA :hat
Basketball: USA :hat
Germany: Losing wars, genocide.

The seat of "modern civilization" was very much Northern Africa/Mediterranean (with China also contributing a shitload of unheralded innovations that Europeans didn't happen upon until centuries later. They also invented your precious povertyball). "Without them," you'd probably still be living in caves, trying not to freeze to death, while sacrificing a small child to Odin or some other pagan nonsense god hoping he ends winter early.

[midnightpulp]

fuck you son tbh, there wasn't water or food in my country 70 years ago and while you faggots where 9-5 on coffee breaks stealing money from many countries with your petrodollar fiat shit currency, we worked our assess in here. Then we integrated eastern germany and paid an absolute obscene amount for that. Then we paid the price for your fucking bubble by bailing out countries singled out by your economic hitmen. So lol at patting myself on the back for doing nothing. I contributed plenty, started out with business in eastern germany, taking people used to a failing system and re-integrating them, re-training, paying a shit load of taxes for low productive workers etc.

So let me re-itereate, while you merrycans where busy voting for fucks like reagan, clinton, bush sr/jr and squandering away what the golden generation gave you, we here were busy solving the remains of the cold war and of predatory capitalism. You played a part in making america a shithole while I played part in making Germany a world power, so please just shut the fuck up tbh.

Also what kind of mental midget uses "triggered" when he's pushing 50. baby boomers smh, no wonder merica is going down the drain with retards like you.

You're such a dipshit (or liar). If you started a business (or with a business) in fuckin' East Germany, you are also likely pushing or over 50 (from your words, it appears you were in a management position with the company you worked for). Here's where you tell us you're such a genius, you started this business/rose to management at 14 years old. Sure :lol

[dfens]

You're such a dipshit (or liar). If you started a business (or with a business) in fuckin' East Germany, you are also likely pushing or over 50 (from your words, it appears you were in a management position with the company you worked for). Here's where you tell us you're such a genius, you started this business/rose to management at 14 years old. Sure :lol

Explicit reintegration funds were available even in ~2001-2 you dumb fuck. Lmao calling people out without even knowing what the fuck is going on on this planet. You think that it was re-unification and then just like that a poor country of millions lacking modern skills gets rich ? :lmao dumb merica at it again. It takes a full generation to transition that at the minimum, even today there are still big differences between west and east germany, and even today there are special funds for development in that area, so even today you could do that for real not just for the image.

And yes, I am getting old :cry

[dfens]

Modern math: Greeks and Arabs.
Engineering: Ancient Egyptians. Romans.
Education: Greeks
Philosophy: Greeks
Science: Greeks/Arabs
Internet: USA :hat
Atomic Energy: USA :hat
Basketball: USA :hat
Germany: Losing wars, genocide.

The seat of "modern civilization" was very much Northern Africa/Mediterranean (with China also contributing a shitload of unheralded innovations that Europeans didn't happen upon until centuries later. They also invented your precious povertyball). "Without them," you'd probably still be living in caves, trying not to freeze to death, while sacrificing a small child to Odin or some other pagan nonsense god hoping he ends winter early.

besides classic philosophy you got 'em all wrong, even basketball :lmao I won't even bother, you're such a try hard spammer :lol

[midnightpulp]

Explicit reintegration funds were available even in ~2001-2 you dumb fuck. Lmao calling people out without even knowing what the fuck is going on on this planet. You think that it was re-unification and then just like that a poor country of millions lacking modern skills gets rich ? :lmao dumb merica at it again. It takes a full generation to transition that at the minimum, even today there are still big differences between west and east germany, and even today there are special funds for development in that area, so even today you could do that for real not just for the image.

And yes, I am getting old :cry

:downspin:

Should've said former East Germany if you didn't want a misunderstanding. I'm not an expert on post-reunification Germany, since I don't care all that much about irrelevant countries. And even if you were in a management position/running your business in the mid-to-late 90s, you are likely close to 50.