Kawhis Uncle wants Kawhi in LA

[MaNu4Tres]

And has been in his ear all year about it.

Spurs have been pretty irritated since he took over as his manager, and the friction has to do with him sitting.

Was told this today from a pretty reliable source.

If nothing can be fixed, and if Kawhi is on his way to LA this summer, blame his uncle.

[Chinook]

...

[spurraider21]

And has been in his ear all year about it.

Spurs have been pretty irritated since he took over as his manager, and the friction has to do with him sitting.

Was told this today from a pretty reliable source.

If nothing can be fixed, and if Kawhi is on his way to LA this summer, blame his uncle.
only one sauce? not multiple?

[SAGirl]

It's been rumors on top of rumors... river has pebbles in it.

Maybe Green knows about it and hired his new manager to get him the heck out of dodge too? :lol

[SAGirl]

Frankly Magic Johnson has been tampering with superstars left and right.. up and down.

[Play Boban]

Kawhi is a cancer.

[r0drig0lac]

more a thread with the spurstalk stamp

[TD 21]

If he's predetermined that he's going to L.A., why would either be willing to give up the requisite assets (which Clippers don't even have)? Maybe if James were willing to sign with Lakers, on the condition that they trade for Leonard, but James isn't stupid. A team of them, Ball and spare parts isn't a contender.


Outside of that scenario, neither L.A. team has the makings of a championship core and though Lakers obviously have better young talent, it's difficult to envision him wanting the spotlight that would come with being known as Lakers savior or waiting on their kids to develop.

Still say if he wants out, he's traded to Celtics. They can offer the best package and like Thunder with George, they'd likely take the risk.

[99 Problems]

Kuzma, Ingram and the like would be nice next to Dijon, White, Blossomgame even Rudy moving forward.

[MaNu4Tres]

only one sauce? not multiple?

Just one. Ruined my day.

[spurs10]

His uncle said something quite different to the press and if this is true the FO will be able to sue the family for every penny they have. He is being paid almost $40 million for this season and next to play and can’t sit out legally unless injured. He’s free to leave in 19/20.

[BatManu20]

It's pretty simple: if he signs the the SuperMax this summer, we have nothing to worry about. If he declines, he's being traded.

[MaNu4Tres]

I didnt make this thread to convince anyone of anything.

Im just sharing information I was told.

[baseline bum]

Still say if he wants out, he's traded to Celtics. They can offer the best package and like Thunder with George, they'd likely take the risk.

OKC gave up crap they didn't want to pay any more. No way the Spurs would get anything decent out of Boston if Kawhi says he's going to LA.

[bklynspursfan]

It's pretty simple: if he signs the the SuperMax this summer, we have nothing to worry about. If he declines, he's being traded.

Basically this.

[Dex]

It's pretty simple: if he signs the the SuperMax this summer, we have nothing to worry about. If he declines, he's being traded.

That's assuming the Spurs offer it. I think with a player like Kawhi, you almost HAVE to....But there have to be some concerns if he misses the entire season with a possibly degenerative knee condition.

[TD 21]

OKC gave up crap they didn't want to pay any more. No way the Spurs would get anything decent out of Boston if Kawhi says he's going to LA.

They likely didn't mind getting out of Oladipo's contract, but still viewed him as an asset at the same time, as well as Sabonis.

The only other chance Celtics might have at the type of player who could conceivably put them over the top anytime soon, is Davis. If they can get Leonard first, there's no sense of waiting. They'd be prohibitive favorites to get to the Finals and capable of beating Warriors. You dare a player to walk away from that.

[spurraider21]

OKC gave up crap they didn't want to pay any more. No way the Spurs would get anything decent out of Boston if Kawhi says he's going to LA.
mormon hayward tbh

[lmbebo]

I don't see the attraction of LA ...

1) Taxes
2) Cost of Living
3) no where close to a play off team
4) advertising dollars doesn't exactly flow to LA/NY markets exclusively anymore. Plus, he's not one for the big spot light as it is ...

He loses the super max contract unless Spurs deal him to the lakers? And then that would strip the lakers of any assets going forward ...

[SAGirl]

I just will not accept that he doesn't want to play bc he wants out. No way. That is the worst move I have seen in ANY NBA player. Heck Paul George wanted to be traded and was open about it and was still playing...

It does remind me of Kyrie Irving though. The rumors that came out of that situation were the Kyrie has a minor knee surgery will get done in the offseason, but if he wasn't traded he was going to have it done mid season and thus not be available to play for the Cavs. https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2018/01/25/kyrie-irving-knee-surgery

Vardon reports that after Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert refused to honor Irving’s trade request, the All-Star guard threatened to sit out the season to have surgery on his knee, “convincing Gilbert and Cleveland’s front office that the relationship was not salvageable,” according to multiple unnamed sources.
The procedure, which Vardon described as “a follow” to the surgery Irving had in 2015 to fix his broken left kneecap (http://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/2015/story/_/id/13020515/kyrie-irving-cleveland-cavaliers-fractures-kneecap-season-ending-surgery), is typically done in the offseason. However, Irving reportedly threatened to not come to training camp (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20512127/nba-cavs-future-shaken-kyrie-irving-trade) and schedule the operation during the regular season.

I have been worried Kawhi has necrosis in that quad tendon. It will suck if he comes out with something like that. ^ If he wanted to push himself out, he would be making more noise about it...

[spurraider21]

I don't see the attraction of LA ...

1) Taxes
2) Cost of Living
3) no where close to a play off team
4) advertising dollars doesn't exactly flow to LA/NY markets exclusively anymore. Plus, he's not one for the big spot light as it is ...

He loses the super max contract unless Spurs deal him to the lakers? And then that would strip the lakers of any assets going forward ...
- endorsement money would outweigh taxes
- cost of living is pretty lol-worthy if you're making NBA max dollars
- a lot more things to do than san antonio
- great weather, location, oceans, etc
- different political leaning...

[SAGirl]

- endorsement money would outweigh taxes
- cost of living is pretty lol-worthy if you're making NBA max dollars
- a lot more things to do than san antonio
- great weather, location, oceans, etc
- different political leaning...

His family is closer too. He's local basically...

[Chillen]

It's pretty simple: if he signs the the SuperMax this summer, we have nothing to worry about. If he declines, he's being traded.

Yep, this. Spurs will trade him if he declines the max.

[weeks]

Get in his ear all you want.

We just took him to a couple of 60+ win seasons, WCF in position to steal home court, we can offer the supermax, we brought him up, and made him the Man...with an All-Star 2nd option that follows his lead.

Unless he's really disgruntled with the Spurs, they've got arguably the best offer on the market - no matter how egregiously PATFO handled the offseason.

Do you guys seriously think Kawhi fucking Leonard is starry-eyed for that LA lifestyle? really?

[Chillen]

OKC gave up crap they didn't want to pay any more. No way the Spurs would get anything decent out of Boston if Kawhi says he's going to LA.

See this sucks because Spurs could have easily gotten Kyrie for Leonard from Cavs. Irving wanted to play for this team. Now Boston would probably not let Irving go even for Leonard.

[baseline bum]

See this sucks because Spurs could have easily gotten Kyrie for Leonard from Cavs. Irving wanted to play for this team. Now Boston would probably not let Irving go even for Leonard.

I'd rather have Tatum + Brown for a full rebuild and Boston would much rather give them up than Irving too I'm guessing if it was to land Leonard.

[dabom]

Bet OP some money. :lol

[dabom]

How well do you "trust" your "sources"? :lol

[TheGreatYacht]

Great to see he's surrounded with smart people :tu

This ship is sinking faster than the Titanic. From roster construction, to an alcoholic front office, a shaky ownership, and to fat lazy fans

[Chinook]

Again, there's zero reason why Boston would trade for Kawhi. They have Hayward locked in for three more years and two players they really liked on rookie deals. If Gordon were healthy and just not clicking, maybe. But they are almost certainly more inclined to see what they already have than make any substantial change at the wing. By far, the best thing PATFO can do is wait until the draft and pick their own guy. LAC has two picks in the lottery this season. Neither is great, but that doesn't matter if they guys PATFO want fall to them. I have no idea at all whom that would be (don't even have DX anymore to check prospects out), but if someone they think can be a really good player is there, those picks plus Harris for Kawhi and Patty and/or Pau could easily outclass a Boston deal. There are others too, like a deal with Phoenix (who could have two lottery picks themselves including the a top-three pick).

The Spurs could have a young group with Murray and the haul from the deal with the potential additions of guys like Anderson, Bertans and Milutinov. They'd also still have a vet core of Parker, Green and Aldridge to keep the team watchable. Finally, they'd have no bad salary on their books going forward and a legit chance to FINALLY fix their weaknesses at the guard spots. That feels like a much better prognosis than trading for Boston's guys and then hoping to be bad enough to get a real star in the lottery. People don't even want to watch the team when they are firmly in the playoff race. They damned sure aren't going to watch a tanking Spurs team, despite what all the people who are pushing for a completely bottom-out seem to think.

[21209]

It's pretty simple: if he signs the the SuperMax this summer, we have nothing to worry about. If he declines, he's being traded.

Obviously and undoubtedly the most crucial off-season the Spurs will face since 2000.

Kawhi's history with this injury will make it even trickier.

[apalisoc_9]

Man lands on moon...

Yeah but seriously, this is pretty believable.

[DJR210]

Kawhi is a cancer.

When he goes to LA he'll be AIDS too

[MaNu4Tres]

Again, there's zero reason why Boston would trade for Kawhi. They have Hayward locked in for three more years and two players they really liked on rookie deals. If Gordon were healthy and just not clicking, maybe. But they are almost certainly more inclined to see what they already have than make any substantial change at the wing. By far, the best thing PATFO can do is wait until the draft and pick their own guy. LAC has two picks in the lottery this season. Neither is great, but that doesn't matter if they guys PATFO want fall to them. I have no idea at all whom that would be (don't even have DX anymore to check prospects out), but if someone they think can be a really good player is there, those picks plus Harris for Kawhi and Patty and/or Pau could easily outclass a Boston deal. There are others too, like a deal with Phoenix (who could have two lottery picks themselves including the a top-three pick).

The Spurs could have a young group with Murray and the haul from the deal with the potential additions of guys like Anderson, Bertans and Milutinov. They'd also still have a vet core of Parker, Green and Aldridge to keep the team watchable. Finally, they'd have no bad salary on their books going forward and a legit chance to FINALLY fix their weaknesses at the guard spots. That feels like a much better prognosis than trading for Boston's guys and then hoping to be bad enough to get a real star in the lottery. People don't even want to watch the team when they are firmly in the playoff race. They damned sure aren't going to watch a tanking Spurs team, despite what all the people who are pushing for a completely bottom-out seem to think.

Lakers*

Not Clippers, forgot to add that part.

[Chinook]

Lakers*

Not Clippers, forgot to add that part.

I don't think SA cares which Kawhi wants. Because LAC isn't giving up a premium asset, they'd probably consider worth the risk either way

[Keepin' it real]

Pinche tio...

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't think SA cares which Kawhi wants. Because LAC isn't giving up a premium asset, they'd probably consider worth the risk either way

I don't think so either, but if a team isn't going to get a guarantee for Kawhi -- they won't get back good value.

[Keepin' it real]

It's pretty simple: if he signs the the SuperMax this summer, we have nothing to worry about. If he declines, he's being traded.

So what the hell do we do in the meantime??? Talk about the weather?

[Chinook]

I don't think so either, but if a team isn't going to get a guarantee for Kawhi -- they won't get back good value.

It's arguably less than they got for Griffin. If you want a team that needs a guarantee, Boston would be more likely.

[MaNu4Tres]

Worst deal I'd take if I'm SA is Kawhi for Ingram, Randle S&T, Cavs 1st in 18', Lakers 1st in 19' and 20'.

[dabom]

No OP? :lmao

So either you either don't believe your source or you were just lying. :lol

[Chinook]

Worst deal I'd take if I'm SA is Kawhi for Ingram, Randle S&T, Cavs 1st in 18', Lakers 1st in 19' and 20'.

That deal is illegal. And I don't think I'd want any part of it anyway.

[Hoops Czar]

I don't see the attraction of LA ...

1) Taxes
2) Cost of Living
3) no where close to a play off team
4) advertising dollars doesn't exactly flow to LA/NY markets exclusively anymore. Plus, he's not one for the big spot light as it is ...

He loses the super max contract unless Spurs deal him to the lakers? And then that would strip the lakers of any assets going forward ...

1.) When your making millions of dollars with a chance to make many millions more through endorsements, it' a very small price to pay.

2.) The Lakers aren't a playoff team but the Spurs are? I got news for you, if Leonard doesn't come back, the Spurs probably aren"'t a playoff team either. Oh, and Magic isn't bound by loyalty and he's not afraid to spend other people's money to build a contender. Bring in a Super Star like Leonard and watch how many players will want to play in LA.

3.) When was the last time advertising dollars flew to San Antonio? Those HEB commercials are cute, cuddly and chalk full of bad acting but they don't pay much.

4.) For all the things you mentioned, why do you think it is so hard for the Spurs to convince other star players to play here? I know it's awfully tempting play with the likes of Bertsns, Laughverne, Paddy, Forbes, a stat padding Diva who needs his touches, and a political coach with a rest and minute restriction schtik. Unfortunately, star players want to play. Come on man, the only thing the Spurs have going for them is no taxes and that alone isn't going to cut it.

[MaNu4Tres]

That deal is illegal. And I don't think I'd want any part of it anyway.

21' 1st.*

In the hypothetical that Kawhi only gives LAL the guarantee and that they're the only trade partner, then that's the worst I'd accept.

[Hoops Czar]

That deal is illegal. And I don't think I'd want any part of it anyway.
Throw in Danny Green and the bar of soap.

[Clipper Nation]

https://i.imgur.com/yYMmMJX.jpg

[Clipper Nation]

It's arguably less than they got for Griffin. If you want a team that needs a guarantee, Boston would be more likely.

The Clippers wouldn't need a guarantee, IMO. Jerry West is a HUGE fan of Kawhi, and I'd trust him to convince Kawhi to stay.

[SAGirl]

People don't even want to watch the team when they are firmly in the playoff race. They damned sure aren't going to watch a tanking Spurs team, despite what all the people who are pushing for a completely bottom-out seem to think.
That's not a bad plan you propose. I already posited that they really can't afford to tank if they are losing money. If they were to add a really exciting young prospect to their vet and young players they have now, maybe that even attracts some recalcitrant fans that don't want to renew annual season tickets. One could argue all this uncertainty with the injury, the fact there doesn't appear to be a reprieve, and there are really no timelines are worse for morale than adding some nice lottery talent and seeing them develop... I mean nothing is guaranteed. The best thing would be for none of this to have happened, Kiwi to be healthy and for everything to be merry again... but that is not the way the river and their pebbles are swaying.

[vy65]

More like Ka-bye. Amirite guise?

[vy65]

Srs tho, who can blame him?

[Proxy]

man, this shit makes me miss the fuck out of Timmy

[coachmac87]

What does the source say about him playing this year?

This year has sucked but if he plays this year I don’t think any team would want to play us first round..but if he doesn’t?? We’re obviously fucked

[SAGirl]

1.) When your making millions of dollars with a chance to make many millions more through endorsements, it' a very small price to pay.

2.) The Lakers aren't a playoff team but the Spurs are? I got news for you, if Leonard doesn't come back, the Spurs probably aren"'t a playoff team either. Oh, and Magic isn't bound by loyalty and he's not afraid to spend other people's money to build a contender. Bring in a Super Star like Leonard and watch how many players will want to play in LA.

3.) When was the last time advertising dollars flew to San Antonio? Those HEB commercials are cute, cuddly and chalk full of bad acting but they don't pay much.

4.) For all the things you mentioned, why do you think it is so hard for the Spurs to convince other star players to play here? I know it's awfully tempting play with the likes of Bertsns, Laughverne, Paddy, Forbes, a stat padding Diva who needs his touches, and a political coach with a rest and minute restriction schtik. Unfortunately, star players want to play. Come on man, the only thing the Spurs have going for them is no taxes and that alone isn't going to cut it.

Out of everything you posted there... Number 2 is the one that really has weight. If he has complained about the roster and the team being unable to attract top tier talent, maybe his uncle is on his ear that a big market like LA with him in it will definitely do that. It would suck, but it's plausible.

[Uriel]

And has been in his ear all year about it.

Spurs have been pretty irritated since he took over as his manager, and the friction has to do with him sitting.

Was told this today from a pretty reliable source.

If nothing can be fixed, and if Kawhi is on his way to LA this summer, blame his uncle.
Jalen Rose said the same thing. It was his uncle.

[vy65]

And has been in his ear all year about it.

Spurs have been pretty irritated since he took over as his manager, and the friction has to do with him sitting.

Was told this today from a pretty reliable source.

If nothing can be fixed, and if Kawhi is on his way to LA this summer, blame his uncle.

Nothing fixed as in the roster or something else?

[Chinook]

The Clippers wouldn't need a guarantee, IMO. Jerry West is a HUGE fan of Kawhi, and I'd trust him to convince Kawhi to stay.

I agree. For the price they are paying, they'd pull the trigger without Kawhi saying he'd stay for sure. Not only did it seem to work for George and OKC, but they also have their history with CP3. If Kawhi wants to be in LA, LAC will be good enough for him. I doubt he'd pass up a Bird-max with his injuries.

[MoSpur02]

Basically what I've been trying to say minus the L.A part. His uncle has a huge influence on him not playing. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't play the rest of the season. He has become sort of a cancer to the team.

[Ice009]

Why does his retarded uncle not want him to play?

This is not the news I wanted to hear. Sounds like his uncle is a pain in the ass. He's going to end up ruining Kawhi's career.

I know Kawhi is a hard worker, but if he didn't land on the Spurs, I'm not sure he becomes the player he became last season. If Kawhi's uncle wants to be that disrespectful to the Spurs, then fuck that piece of shit.

Also, if Kawhi doesn't like the roster and wanted out, he should have gone to the front office and communicated with them during free agency. Not sit around on his ass with his mouth shut.

How about Nash. He was playing well with what now seems like the phoenix miracle medical staff compared to the LA medical staff that couldn't even barely get him on the court.

[MoSpur02]

They don't trust Spurs medical staff. They became upset with how they handled his quad injury.

[Chinook]

That's not a bad plan you propose. I already posited that they really can't afford to tank if they are losing money. If they were to add a really exciting young prospect to their vet and young players they have now, maybe that even attracts some recalcitrant fans that don't want to renew annual season tickets. One could argue all this uncertainty with the injury, the fact there doesn't appear to be a reprieve, and there are really no timelines are worse for morale than adding some nice lottery talent and seeing them develop... I mean nothing is guaranteed. The best thing would be for none of this to have happened, Kiwi to be healthy and for everything to be merry again... but that is not the way the river and their pebbles are swaying.

I think Harris and Aldridge could be a good duo for a bottom-bracket playoff team, especially if the team can get an impact guard with cap space. There are a couple of guys in the middle of the first that I'd be interested in, so I wouldn't be shocked if the team did well recouping value. Obviously, the chance they would be able to replace Kawhi that would is absurdly small. But it could give them three high-upside players (including Murray) and a guy who seems like he can take you to 50 wins if he can get just a bit of consistent help. It'd definitely consider the team watchable, even if the shock of literally having no hope at a title would be pretty intense. It's better that watching old and broken-down players like we're seeing now.

[DPG21920]

They don't trust Spurs medical staff. They became upset with how they handled his quad injury.

This is so dumb. The same crew that got TP back? Also, they don't think sa wanted to protect their best asset?

[Ice009]

They don't trust Spurs medical staff. They became upset with how they handled his quad injury.

So it stems from that? Does Kawhi not know the Lakers fucked Karl Malone in the 2004 season with a misdiagnosis on his his knee injury and gave him the wrong rehab treatment? He re-injured that same knee again later in the season because it wasn't strong enough and it pretty much caused him to retire.

How good did Kobe look returning from his achilles injury? In this modern age, he had one of the worst returns from a major injury that I've seen.

How about Dwight Howard? He went from a top 5-10 player before joining the Lakers, to looking like a former star that turned into a washed up scrub overnight after dealing with the Lakers medical staff for a whole season.

Kawhi and his uncle are fucking retards if they think LA has a better medical staff than the Spurs.

[SAGirl]

Basically what I've been trying to say minus the L.A part. His uncle has a huge influence on him not playing. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't play the rest of the season. He has become sort of a cancer to the team.
I have to give it to you Mo. You called this a few weeks ago... It still hasn't materialized but him not playing won't make these rumors and unease go away. We have to believe it was Kiwi's camp with the leaks in the first place, and maybe his uncle wanted to have his "Lavar" moment in getting interviewed about his nephew and such... who knows? it wasn't to the Spurs benefit that all these leaks were coming out.... that was Kiwi.

[MoSpur02]

From what I've been told Kawhi is really is not all here "mentally" with the team. He's sorta checked out. The Spurs have tried to get him engaged with the team, but it hasn't worked. I hope something turns around and they can make it work. I really do. The Spurs want things to get better with him. Apparently his uncle has been in his ear more lately and is a big part of this whole issue. The Spurs will trade him if things don't get better.

[Chinook]

They don't trust Spurs medical staff. They became upset with how they handled his quad injury.

If it was you who was talking about it possibly being degenerative, then I could see why they'd be so upset/desperate. Kawhi could sit this season and next and still get a decent contract. If he comes back and fails each of the next two years, he won't get anything other than a one-year deal going forward. Could have a Brandon Roy-like end to his career. The issue is that he's not going to any team without a physical, so a trade likely wouldn't help his value.

[SAGirl]

I think Harris and Aldridge could be a good duo for a bottom-bracket playoff team, especially if the team can get an impact guard with cap space. There are a couple of guys in the middle of the first that I'd be interested in, so I wouldn't be shocked if the team did well recouping value. Obviously, the chance they would be able to replace Kawhi that would is absurdly small. But it could give them three high-upside players (including Murray) and a guy who seems like he can take you to 50 wins if he can get just a bit of consistent help. It'd definitely consider the team watchable, even if the shock of literally having no hope at a title would be pretty intense. It's better that watching old and broken-down players like we're seeing now.

There are small market teams like Indiana that refuse to tank... sure they didn't have generational talent, but they have made the playoffs and kept their fanbases engaged with their product.

OTOH look at the Magic, tank after tank and they have no generational talent either and their teams are really hopeless and unwatchable, plus you can't really get attached to your young prospects bc b4 they blossomed they are traded. I don't think Spurs would tank.

Frankly they might be doing their homework early... even if Kiwi isn't traded bc IMO I believe if Pop patched things up with LMA, he has to have hope in his old merry head that he can patch whatever up with Kiwi (perhaps his personality and the uncle meddling in make it impossible... he doesn't form bonds and is very detached so it's tough to say)... anyways, I still think they make the playoffs but they are one additional injury away from totally falling off and picking in the late lottery anyways. There are things they can do in this draft if Kiwi doesn't come back and they fall out of playoff contention anyways.

[MoSpur02]

The Spurs want picks and/or up and coming star

[MaNu4Tres]

So it stems from that? Does Kawhi not know the Lakers fucked Karl Malone in the 2004 season with a misdiagnosis on his his knee injury and gave him the wrong rehab treatment? He re-injured that same knee again later in the season because it wasn't strong enough and it caused him to retire.

How good did Kobe look returning from his achilles injury? In this modern age, he had one of the worst returns from a major injury that I've seen.

How about Dwight Howard? He went from a top 5-10 player before joining the Lakers, to looking like a former star that turned into a washed up scrub overnight after dealing with the Lakers medical staff for a whole season.

Kawhi and his uncle are fucking retards if they think LA has a better medical staff than the Spurs.

There's more to it than how the Spurs handled the quad ( I honestly think its crutch to fall back on or an excuse as an out for Kawhis' camp).

Kawhi and his family are from Riverside (which is 35-40 miles from LA). He grew up a huge Lakers and Kobe fan.

I was just told that Kawhi's Uncle has been in Kawhis' ear all year about going to LA and Spurs are pretty pissed about it, because it seems like Kawhi has bought in to what his Uncle has been advertising. From what I got from the conversation, Spurs have been irritated and would rather him sit out until he either gets traded or til he's mentally committed to the Spurs again. At same time, Kawhi is working out on his own and trying to get all the way mentally and physically back.

Other than that, all of the Spurs' doctors have cleared him and said he's fine. He's more healthy now than he was when he first came back.

[Ice009]

Kawhi's had this tendonapathy since his rookie year on and off. Since he first had it in his rookie year, I don't think the Spurs have had anything to do with it at all. They've given him more rest than I think he should have ever gotten up to this point in his career. It's not on the Spurs AT ALL. That's on Kawhi and his own body.

How many other Spurs players and legends have had this while playing with the Spurs? Tim had tendonsis, not sure if that's the same thing, but he didn't seem to have a problem playing with that for 10+ years. So either Kawhi's a pussy that can't or won't play with any pain, or he's trying to blame the Spurs for his own body breaking down.

[Chinook]

I doubt the Spurs would have traded Kawhi this season no matter what. As I mentioned, they'll want to be able to pick their compensation rather than taking picks. Insofar as LAC is in on this, knowing what they're getting is crucial. The reason why I'd think Phoenix has the edge over Boston is because PATFO apparently really wanted Josh Jackson (though I'm assuming that was part of a Kyrie trade more than anything). The Suns also have a number of decent front-court prospects and a high pick in a draft where there are several top-notch big-man prospects at the top. They might be able to parlay this trade into the second and third pieces of a new "Bigish Three". Unless PATFO really likes Tatum and Brown a lot, I don't see why they'd deal with Boston, who can't offer salary relief and has little in the way of immediate picks.

[Ice009]

There's more to it than how the Spurs handled the quad ( I honestly think its crutch to fall back on or an excuse as an out for Kawhis' camp).

Kawhi and his family are from Riverside (which is 35-40 miles from LA). He grew up a huge Lakers and Kobe fan.

I was just told that Kawhi's Uncle has been in Kawhis' ear all year about going to LA and Spurs are pretty pissed about it, because it seems like Kawhi has bought in to what his Uncle has been advertising. From what I got from the conversation, Spurs have been irritated and would rather him sit out until he either gets traded or til he's mentally committed to the Spurs again. At same time, Kawhi is working out on his own and trying to get all the way mentally and physically back.

Other than that, all of the Spurs' doctors have cleared him and said he's fine. He's more healthy now than he was when he first came back.

Well, I don't know what to say, if he's supposedly cleared, I can't believe he's not playing.

The Kobe thing is weird, because if Kawhi is that big of a fan of Kobe's, why hasn't he worked out with him during any of the summers/off-seasons? You'd think they would have made that happen by now, especially on the Lakers side so that they could get Kobe to do some recruiting at the same time.

Is it possible that Magic Johnson has been contacting his uncle and getting his uncle in Kawhi's ear about going to LA, then his uncle is relaying that on to Kawhi?

[MoSpur02]

There's more to it than how the Spurs handled the quad ( I honestly think its crutch to fall back on or an excuse as an out for Kawhis' camp).

Kawhi and his family are from Riverside (which is 35-40 miles from LA). He grew up a huge Lakers and Kobe fan.

I was just told that Kawhi's Uncle has been in Kawhis' ear all year about going to LA and Spurs are pretty pissed about it, because it seems like Kawhi has bought in to what his Uncle has been advertising. From what I got from the conversation, Spurs have been irritated and would rather him sit out until he either gets traded or til he's mentally committed to the Spurs again. At same time, Kawhi is working out on his own and trying to get all the way mentally and physically back.

Other than that, all of the Spurs' doctors have cleared him and said he's fine. He's more healthy now than he was when he first came back.

This. Spurs had/have permission to pull off the trade. It's up to the front office and Pop on whether they actually do it. Again I hope all this dies down and he returns to playing basketball and the Spurs winning. To me winning cures almost everything. .

[MoSpur02]

Well, I don't know what to say, if he's supposedly cleared, I can't believe he's not playing.

The Kobe thing is weird, because if Kawhi is that big of a fan of Kobe's, why hasn't he worked out with him during any of the summers/off-seasons? You'd think they would have made that happen by now, especially on the Lakers side so that they could get Kobe to do some recruiting at the same time.

Is it possible that Magic Johnson has been contacting his uncle and getting his uncle in Kawhi's ear about going to LA, then his uncle is relaying that on to Kawhi?

I wouldn't doubt this. Magic is dirty like that.

[Ice009]

This. Spurs had/have permission to pull off the trade. It's up to the front office and Pop on whether they actually do it. Again I hope all this dies down and he returns to playing basketball and the Spurs winning. To me winning cures almost everything. .

What do you mean by that? Who did they have permission from? Kawhi's camp, or do you mean they've had permission from the ownership group to trade him?

[MoSpur02]

Ownership

[Ice009]

So I take it ownership hasn't been happy with him sitting out.

On Kawhi's end, would he want to be traded to a team that is not in LA? It sounds like the only team he wants to go to is LA, so I wonder if he'd rather stay on the Spurs than get traded to another team that isn't LA.

[MoSpur02]

I was told all this right before the trade deadline.

It just confirmed what I've always thought. The Spurs responses to the media when it asked about Kawhi was always strange. They never talked about the injury really. Just always basically said, he'll play when "he's" ready.

[Chris]

I have confirmed this with Wojtek sadly.

[MoSpur02]

If I'm the Spurs I trade him to the team gives them the best package in return. Forget what he wants or where he wants to go.

[Ice009]

I don't care what Kawhi wants if he is determined to go to the Lakers, I was just curious what the Spurs would do if it's the Lakers only that he demands to be traded to.

[MoSpur02]

I want this to blow over and return to winning basketball games. If not though I've been preparing for Spurs basketball without Kawhi. If it comes to him being traded I really hope they get back quality young players and high draft picks.

[sasaint]

I don't care what Kawhi wants if he is determined to go to the Lakers, I was just curious what the Spurs would do if it's the Lakers only that he demands to be traded to.

If he does that then he is seriously devaluing himself and doing the Spurs dirty. He'd be presenting the Spurs with the Paul George scenario - only worse.

[tholdren]

It's pretty simple: if he signs the the SuperMax this summer, we have nothing to worry about. If he declines, he's being traded.

Dont sign and keep. Sign and trade

[vy65]

Isn’t this the exact sort of thing “culture” is supposed to prevent?

[sasaint]

Isn’t this the exact sort of thing “culture” is supposed to prevent?

So much for cultcha.

[Snaq O'Meal]

Isn’t this the exact sort of thing “culture” is supposed to prevent?

That "culture" requires him to drag some useless midgets along while putting up with President Snow's constant bitching about President Trump. Can't blame Kawhi for checking out mentally.

[sasaint]

I don't care what Kawhi wants if he is determined to go to the Lakers, I was just curious what the Spurs would do if it's the Lakers only that he demands to be traded to.

I would, too; however, the problem is that most every team would know that he was likely just a rental. It would need to be a sign-for-the-supermax-and-trade deal.

[NASpurs]

With Fathead’s dad crying on Twitter last week about his son needing to leave to showcase his talents elsewhere, every fucker nowadays is a Lavar Ball.

[vy65]

No but srsly, I thought Kawhi listened to Pop talk about MLK, went to the Hayden planetarium, and stared in a HEB commercial about “select” churros. Why is this happening?

[vy65]

Cue Jeff McDonald/let someone else have their turn with Kawhi

[offset formation]

It's pretty simple: if he signs the the SuperMax this summer, we have nothing to worry about. If he declines, he's being traded.

Yep, this, without a doubt. We'll know by summer's end.

[MaNu4Tres]

With Fathead’s dad crying on Twitter last week about his son needing to leave to showcase his talents elsewhere, every fucker nowadays is a Lavar Ball.

Only place Kyle can be come a 20 point 8 rebounds 8 assist player is in China.

Here in the NBA, he's a high end role player at best.

[offset formation]

Great to see he's surrounded with smart people :tu

This ship is sinking faster than the Titanic. From roster construction, to an alcoholic front office, a shaky ownership, and to fat lazy fans

Dude, you sound like a jaded girlfriend. It's transparent. It's sad. It's pathetic.

Either strap on a set and support the team or get bent, because reading your hurt feelers page after page is fucking annoying. Capiche?

[lmbebo]

http://image.newsinc.com/26905558.sfxl.jpg?resize=600:*

public enemy #1 ??

http://video.mysanantonio.com/Dennis-Robertson-Favorite-Kawhi-Leonard-Story-26905558

[Play Boban]

When he goes to LA he'll be AIDS too
:lol

[SAGirl]

Understand all the sarcasm about culture.. but based on the perception of the two sources here... no remaking of this roster would make him change his mind. He wants to go home, he has family close in LA... etc. Now Jabari Young's tweet makes sense about Kiwi's family being his real family and not having that same feeling about PATFO.

[offset formation]

This is so dumb. The same crew that got TP back? Also, they don't think sa wanted to protect their best asset?

Yeah, I don't get this supposed rumor one bit.

Actually, none of what's happened with Kawhi has made sense since they announced in the fall that he would miss camp for awhile. Now here we are 70% of the way through the season, and we've barely seen him on the court.

[lmbebo]

How much is he leaving on the table if he walks? His extension I read would be 5 years and $217 million ...

[gambit1990]

wouldn't blame kawhi for wanting to leave.

if he goes to la hopefully it's the clippers. despite their shitty logo/uniforms, dumb fans. lou williams + healthy kawhi/gallo/deandre with whatever jerry west has in mind would be cool.

[sasaint]

If it was you who was talking about it possibly being degenerative, then I could see why they'd be so upset/desperate. Kawhi could sit this season and next and still get a decent contract. If he comes back and fails each of the next two years, he won't get anything other than a one-year deal going forward. Could have a Brandon Roy-like end to his career. The issue is that he's not going to any team without a physical, so a trade likely wouldn't help his value.

The only thing that will recoup his value is for him to perform on the court for more than nine games.

[sasaint]

Understand all the sarcasm about culture.. but based on the perception of the two sources here... no remaking of this roster would make him change his mind. He wants to go home, he has family close in LA... etc. Now Jabari Young's tweet makes sense about Kiwi's family being his real family and not having that same feeling about PATFO.

Also, LMA's extension now makes a ton of sense.

[SAGirl]

Also, LMA's extension now makes a ton of sense.
absolutely as well as that billboard influencing him that the city wanted him back. I know some guys want to burn it all to hell and trade everyone (it is spurstalk after all) but Spurs cannot afford to truly tank business wise. There are so many teams in the league that a tank cannot help, look at Phoenix, Magic etc... Even with a decent job in the draft the Lakers are still not a playoff team after 4 or so years and so on... you get nothing guaranteed. If you aren't competitive you also cannot attract veteran FA to complement your young guys, look at SAC and even 76ers they had to overpay roleplayers (Lakers had to do it too)... the Knicks.. etc. so it does make sense.

Hopefully they can make all this work, but if they can't I expect a retooling and them to reload with picks etc... but won't blow it all up. They have to remain competitive.

[tbdog]

Hang on, so you guys think the Leonard is out of here? These rumours are true. And for some reason, the Spurs are protecting him even though he wants out?

[SAGirl]

I have been really skeptical.. I had been more worried than not that Kiwi's quad tendonitis was turning out to be Tiago's calf... and that line of thinking.

For the first time, I am starting to think there's really something going on... (much like Lamarcus being disgruntled back in the day, I didn't believe it from just one source, but over time it was coming in from many different sources.. it turned out to be true).

[sasaint]

absolutely as well as that billboard influencing him that the city wanted him back. I know some guys want to burn it all to hell and trade everyone (it is spurstalk after all) but Spurs cannot afford to truly tank business wise. There are so many teams in the league that a tank cannot help, look at Phoenix, Magic etc... Even with a decent job in the draft the Lakers are still not a playoff team after 4 or so years and so on... you get nothing guaranteed. If you aren't competitive you also cannot attract veteran FA to complement your young guys, look at SAC and even 76ers they had to overpay roleplayers (Lakers had to do it too)... the Knicks.. etc. so it does make sense.

Hopefully they can make all this work, but if they can't I expect a retooling and them to reload with picks etc... but won't blow it all up. They have to remain competitive.

I wonder what impact the loss of Kawhi (if it comes to pass) will have on PATFO. Would ownership see that as a sign they needed to move on from Pop? Conversely, would Pop see that as a "good" time to move on?

[SAGirl]

I wonder what impact the loss of Kawhi (if it comes to pass) will have on PATFO. Would ownership see that as a sign they needed to move on from Pop? Conversely, would Pop see that as a "good" time to move on?
Speculation... but losing Kiwi might prompt Pop to retire. He wanted to retire when Duncan did allegedly and Kiwi and Lamarcus kept him engaged enough to stay... but obviously speculation on my part.

[Keepin' it real]

Other than that, all of the Spurs' doctors have cleared him and said he's fine. He's more healthy now than he was when he first came back.


I have been really skeptical.. I had been more worried than not that Kiwi's quad tendonitis was turning out to be Tiago's calf... and that line of thinking.

For the first time, I am starting to think there's really something going on... (much like Lamarcus being disgruntled back in the day, I didn't believe it from just one source, but over time it was coming in from many different sources.. it turned out to be true).

I've been saying that he's faking it. People keep getting offended when I say that because Kawhi is the best player on our favorite team, so he would never do such a thing!

But sometimes a man will take extreme measures to get what he wants. And it appears he wants out.

Tendinopathy my ass!

[spurs10]

I've been saying that he's faking it. People keep getting offended when I say that because Kawhi is the best player on our favorite team, so he would never do such a thing!

But sometimes a man will take extreme measures to get what he wants. And it appears he wants out.

Tendinopathy my ass! I sincerely hope you are wrong, but if you’re right I think he will have done irreparable damage to his carreer and legacy. I’ll keep holding on to the hope he’s injured and is anxious to return.

[Ice009]

I sincerely hope you are wrong, but if you’re right I think he will have done irreparable damage to his carreer and legacy. I’ll keep holding on to the hope he’s injured and is anxious to return.

That is the only thing I want to believe, but I'm really starting to waver with all this speculation and information from unconfirmed sources coming out, I just don't know anymore.

[spurs10]

That is the only thing I want to believe, but I'm really starting to waiver with all this speculation and information from unconfirmed sources coming out, I just don't know anymore. :toast I’m with ya about not knowing anymore because we are being given no reassurances that things are going to be alright. For my mental health I’m going to ignore the speculation and hope he returns with something to prove, if only to show his value and that he’s 100% healthy. I get the waivering too...believe me.

[apalisoc_9]

Cue Jeff McDonald/let someone else have their turn with Kawhi

Wow..damn that guy is a cuckload. Does he also say let someone else have a turn on his wife

[Ice009]

Wow..damn that guy is a cuckload. Does he also say let someone else have a turn on his wife

lol. Someone should send that to him via twitter or something. I'd like to see if he has the same opinion.

[BillMc]

It's pretty simple: if he signs the the SuperMax this summer, we have nothing to worry about. If he declines, he's being traded.

[spurs10]

Regardless of what happens in the summer, I’d like to find out what’s happening now and this season. If Kawhi isn’t doing everything possible to return then it’s a whole different thing. He’s only played 9 games this season. Whether a trade is imminent, or not, it shouldn’t affect his obligation to come back and play if healthy.

[BillMc]

Regardless of what happens in the summer, I’d like to find out what’s happening now and this season. If Kawhi isn’t doing everything possible to return then it’s a whole different thing. He’s only played 9 games this season. Whether a trade is imminent, or not, it shouldn’t affect his obligation to come back and play if healthy.

This. Can I buy that he wants out? Maybe....

Can I buy that he doesn't want to play this season? Not really... He could be pissed at the whole world, but you'd think he wouldn't want to give up a year. And if he were, and it was that obvious, Pop and RC would have traded him before the deadline

[TheDoctor]

I can’t read this thread and not think in Bullshit.

[BillMc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cfc3rCQOuU

Kawhi's Uncle big Zeppelin fan.

[DAF86]

Again, there's zero reason why Boston would trade for Kawhi. They have Hayward locked in for three more years and two players they really liked on rookie deals. If Gordon were healthy and just not clicking, maybe. But they are almost certainly more inclined to see what they already have than make any substantial change at the wing. By far, the best thing PATFO can do is wait until the draft and pick their own guy. LAC has two picks in the lottery this season. Neither is great, but that doesn't matter if they guys PATFO want fall to them. I have no idea at all whom that would be (don't even have DX anymore to check prospects out), but if someone they think can be a really good player is there, those picks plus Harris for Kawhi and Patty and/or Pau could easily outclass a Boston deal. There are others too, like a deal with Phoenix (who could have two lottery picks themselves including the a top-three pick).

The Spurs could have a young group with Murray and the haul from the deal with the potential additions of guys like Anderson, Bertans and Milutinov. They'd also still have a vet core of Parker, Green and Aldridge to keep the team watchable. Finally, they'd have no bad salary on their books going forward and a legit chance to FINALLY fix their weaknesses at the guard spots. That feels like a much better prognosis than trading for Boston's guys and then hoping to be bad enough to get a real star in the lottery. People don't even want to watch the team when they are firmly in the playoff race. They damned sure aren't going to watch a tanking Spurs team, despite what all the people who are pushing for a completely bottom-out seem to think.

When you have a chance to get a top 3 player in the league, you do it. Boston would take Kawhi in a heartbeat if presented the opportunity.

[spursfan09]

Fuck Kawhi then. If he wants to leave the spurs... then freaking play so that he can get us some value in a trade. Bye Felicia!!!

[bic50]

Getting worked up over nothing

[ECOV]

Getting worked up over nothing

Spurs talk for you

[Chinook]

Getting worked up over nothing

There's no "nothing" at this point. Either Kawhi is still injured or he's not but not playing anyway. Both scenarios warrant a shit-ton of concern.

[dabom]

There's no "nothing" at this point. Either Kawhi is still injured or he's not but not playing anyway. Both scenarios warrant a shit-ton of concern.

He's talking about the Kawhi leaving.

[dabom]

My sources are better than OPs. Kawhi is not even remotely thinking of leaving the Spurs. :lol

[TXstbobcat]

Leonard will have $219 million reasons to stay with the Spurs. He can still live in LA in the offseason and get his super max contract.

[Raven]

Kawhi is a cancer.

ok boban

[sasaint]

Fuck Kawhi then. If he wants to leave the spurs... then freaking play so that he can get us some value in a trade. Bye Felicia!!!

:tu

[loveforthegame]

I have a hard time believing he’s holding the team hostage because he wants out. If he was that far removed from the team and has been for months then time isn’t going to change his mind back. I don’t see the Spurs paying him that much money to sit because he misses home either. Not sure of the rules but surely they could ask the league to step in if they’re dead set against trading him.

[r0drig0lac]

When you have a chance to get a top 3 player in the league, you do it. Boston would take Kawhi in a heartbeat if presented the opportunity.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Source?

I don't buy it.

[Dex]

I have a hard time believing he’s holding the team hostage because he wants out. If he was that far removed from the team and has been for months then time isn’t going to change his mind back. I don’t see the Spurs paying him that much money to sit because he misses home either. Not sure of the rules but surely they could ask the league to step in if they’re dead set against trading him.

Agreed.

There is like a 99% chance he's just injured and frustrated, and a 1% chance he's sitting because he wants out.

Of course, the social media sewing circles are gonna gossip and demand answers...but he is a budding NBA superstar and a former FMVP. He is not obligated to come out to the media to say anything for anybody. He probably doesn't even want to talk about it either. We are not even a blip on his radar.

I'll believe Kawhi is gone when he's gone. Otherwise, I expect him to sign his extension and be here for years. If the future proves me wrong, well...then so be it.

[SAGirl]

There's no "nothing" at this point. Either Kawhi is still injured or he's not but not playing anyway. Both scenarios warrant a shit-ton of concern.
This. ^
I was concerned his tendinitis is turning into “Tiago’s calf”. In Tiqgo’ case there also wasn’t a timeline and “he will play when he’s ready” turned into never really. He attempted come backs and in the end would never really be completely ready. It’s a less gossipy situation but no less bad for the Spurs. Might be worse even. Things aren’t fine.

[sasaint]

Agreed.

There is like a 99% chance he's just injured and frustrated, and a 1% chance he's sitting because he wants out.

Of course, the social media sewing circles are gonna gossip and demand answers...but he is a budding NBA superstar and a former FMVP. He is not obligated to come out to the media to say anything for anybody. He probably doesn't even want to talk about it either. We are not even a blip on his radar.

I'll believe Kawhi is gone when he's gone. Otherwise, I expect him to sign his extension and be here for years. If the future proves me wrong, well...then so be it.

I like the optimism. I am not pessimistic, but I can't really claim to be optimistic, either. I am hopeful, but we'll just have to wait and see. This situation would be strange for any team, but it seems absolutely surreal for the Spurs.

[spursistan]

Unfortunately this doesn't seem like a "want-out" behavior over roster or market, but it appears that the "nagging" element of this particular injury is starting to mindfuck him- a type of low-level anxiety creeping up on him that some members of his camp are using for their own ends.

When you hear Buford says he will play when "he is ready" you know that at this point they have have left him to his own devices. And lets act that it is coincidence that it is the second time the Spurs doctors couldn't figure our what is wrong with a Leonard bodypart (wrist circa December 2014). It is only him and I wonder why?

You could accuse Pop and his crew of everything, but trifling with their own players' health, much less franchise ones, isn't one of them (unless you are Green)..

Up to Kawhi to show he isn't broken and altered forever by this tendinopathy. If he attempts to come back again this season, even for just another 10 games, I would feel much better about him.

[cd98]

People are way off. If he wanted out, the standard agent move is a la Kyrie...announce you want a trade. If he was telling them behind the scenes that he wanted to be traded, he would’ve been. He has his highest value now as (1) it’s unknown how bad his injury is but it’s presumed he will recover this year; (2) next year is a lame duck year where teams will assume if he’s willing to leave, they’ll get him in free agency. Now would be the time to trade him, but I doubt it’s on that level and I’m pretty sure Kawhi and his uncle want the super max, they have the latter part of his career and his retirement to leave in LA. He can only make this kind of money once. You never know if a second mega contract is coming. He could have a career ending injury before then or the rules could change, or he may not have another MVP run in him. Too many variables.

A guy like KD could leave bc he already had a couple max contracts and he’s got more endorsements and years in the league. Kawhi is still climbing the mountain of salary. Now is the time to be greedy. The scary part is if the Spurs don’t offer the super max. That means Kawhi’s injury is more serious than we are thinking.

[Leetonidas]

^good point imo, i felt the same that if he really wanted out Spurs would have traded him by now while his value is still incredibly high instead of immediately shooting down any inquires to his availability

[cd98]

During Robinson’s hey day, there were rumors every year he was going to LA (Pre Shaq). Guess what? They were not remotely true.

[Russ]

When you hear Buford says he will play when "he is ready" you know that at this point they have have left him to his own devices.



Buford said last week that . . . "we’ve put all the resources we can, internally and externally, to get him feeling confident enough to play.”

The Spurs are clearly sending the signal that Kawhi's down time is his decision and his decision alone.

Coming from an organization that errs repeatedly on the side of sitting players if there is the least doubt, that speaks volumes about the Spurs' POV on this.

[TXstbobcat]

During Robinson’s hey day, there were rumors every year he was going to LA (Pre Shaq). Guess what? They were not remotely true.

I followed the Spurs during the Robinson era and I don’t remember any rumors of him wanting to go to LA.

[spurs10]

Eventually Kawhi will have to play or state he can’t play. I don’t think the concept of ‘thanks for the 20 million, but I’m just going to sit around at home’ is possible. If he’s unable to play he has another great guaranteed year...two if you count the ‘player option’ deal in 19/20. I find it doubtful he doesn’t want to earn the supermax and to do so he will have to be able to play. Indefinite silence isn’t sustainable for him or the team.

[Strategic]

Sounds like the sort of family member i’d want to stay away from. I wouldn’t give a rats ass what my uncle wanted.

[gambit1990]

people hating on kawhi for possibly wanting to leave :lol get over yourself tbh.

[Thomas82]

I followed the Spurs during the Robinson era and I don’t remember any rumors of him wanting to go to LA.

Me either, but I do remember them trying to steal The Admiral from us to replace Kareem after he retired.

[gospursgojas]

Either he wants out or has a medically significant shit poor body.

Either way I’m saying no way to 200 mil if I’m the spurs. Save cap room and trade for assets. Time for a rebuild.

[daslicer]

Sounds like the sort of family member i’d want to stay away from. I wouldn’t give a rats ass what my uncle wanted.

His uncle strikes me as an opportunist. I get the feeling that his uncle has wanted him to be in LA from day 1 but he couldn't sell the idea of it until now. Kawhi's injury allowed him to get inside of his head and him to sell the argument of going to LA. I'm sure his uncle probably said something like this "Hey Kawhi the Spurs don't care about you that's why they screwed up on your injury. They can't be trusted blah blah." If the rumors are true I don't think the spurs could do anything to keep Kawhi. They could have a team filled with all-stars and he would still want to leave.

[spursistan]

964849836490190849https://media.giphy.com/media/mmYy42RNrgA0w/giphy.gifhttps://media2.giphy.com/media/l0HlIbzTDGWY0ySly/giphy.gif

[daslicer]

Either he wants out or has a medically significant shit poor body.

Either way I’m saying no way to 200 mil if I’m the spurs. Save cap room and trade for assets. Time for a rebuild.

I don't believe in giving him free money for not playing the whole entire year. If he comes back next year make him earn the super max. If he's good enough then he will qualify for a super max in the summer of 2019.

[Capt Bringdown]

Either he wants out or has a medically significant shit poor body.

Either way I’m saying no way to 200 mil if I’m the spurs. Save cap room and trade for assets. Time for a rebuild.

How likely is it that he's able to play as he did before? Spurs are nuts if they pay this guy supermax unless he can prove that he still can play basketball.
Which doesn't seem likely at this point.

Unfortunately, it appears that a Leonard-led future is a mirage. Time to cut losses and move on.

[Russ]

Sounds like the sort of family member i’d want to stay away from. I wouldn’t give a rats ass what my uncle wanted.

Remember, Kawhi lost his father to a fatal shooting in Compton.

His uncle may be a quasi-father figure.

[Ice009]

His uncle strikes me as an opportunist. I get the feeling that his uncle has wanted him to be in LA from day 1 but he couldn't sell the idea of it until now. Kawhi's injury allowed him to get inside of his head and him to sell the argument of going to LA. I'm sure his uncle probably said something like this "Hey Kawhi the Spurs don't care about you that's why they screwed up on your injury. They can't be trusted blah blah." If the rumors are true I don't think the spurs could do anything to keep Kawhi. They could have a team filled with all-stars and he would still want to leave.

Read what I wrote about the Lakers medical staff. Their track record is much worse than the Spurs.

Karl Malone's misdiagnosis in 2004 on his knee that ended up costing the Lakers more regular season games than it should have, mostly due to an incorrect rehab program, and then it ultimately may have cost the Lakers the finals as he re-injured it again in the finals. Andrew Bynum's career over before his prime - Lakers maybe shouldn't have let him play injured in the 2010 playoffs/finals. Dwight Howard going from a top 5-10 player and then looking like a washed up star after dealing with the Lakers medical crew for an entire, miserable season, to Steve Nash not being able to get back on the court after the Suns medical staff was able to keep him on the court for years. Kobe not coming back too well from an achilles tear that other players in recent times have been able to come back from. Bottom line, if Kawhi is worried about injury, diagnosis and treatment, LA is not the team to go to.

[baseline bum]

I've been saying that he's faking it. People keep getting offended when I say that because Kawhi is the best player on our favorite team, so he would never do such a thing!

But sometimes a man will take extreme measures to get what he wants. And it appears he wants out.

Tendinopathy my ass!

Faking this year wouldn't make any sense with him eligible for a supermax extension. Next year after signing the extension would make more sense if he was trying to force a trade, but not this year when it could cost him a lot of money.

[spursistan]

Faking this year wouldn't make any sense with him eligible for a supermax extension. Next year after signing the extension would make more sense if he was trying to force a trade, but not this year when it could cost him a lot of money.
People overthinking it with the most wild theory that could've existed in recent NBA history..

A nagging injury that's gotten mental for a guy who has shown low-pain tolerance threshold in the past..It is as simple as that, IMO.

The roster and the desire to seek greener pastures in more favorable and familiar market place are secondary issue, at least for now..

[daslicer]

Read what I wrote about the Lakers medical staff. Their track record is much worse than the Spurs.

Karl Malone's misdiagnosis in 2004 on his knee that ended up costing the Lakers more regular season games than it should have, mostly due to an incorrect rehab program, and then it ultimately may have cost the Lakers the finals as he re-injured it again in the finals. Andrew Bynum's career over before his prime - Lakers maybe shouldn't have let him play injured in the 2010 playoffs/finals. Dwight Howard going from a top 5-10 player and then looking like a washed up star after dealing with the Lakers medical crew for an entire, miserable season, to Steve Nash not being able to get back on the court after the Suns medical staff was able to keep him on the court for years. Kobe not coming back too well from an achilles tear that other players in recent times have been able to come back from. Bottom line, if Kawhi is worried about injury, diagnosis and treatment, LA is not the team to go to.

Honestly I don't even blame the Spurs medical staff for misdiagnosis of this injury. I have a friend whose a doctor and a uncle whose a doctor so I have talked to both of them about this injury. They have both said there is not much the Spurs could have done to diagnose this injury since nothing showed up on the MRI scans. They have also said that Kawhi should have been able to play by now. Unless there is an actual ruptured tendon then there is no easy way to diagnose this injury. It sucks this injury happened to Kawhi but it's not really anybody's fault. The injury has clearly mentally shaken him and his uncle has been able to take advantage of it.

[tholdren]

Remember, Kawhi lost his father to a fatal shooting in Compton.

His uncle may be a quasi-father figure.

Who cares? Hes a grown man. Tell his uncle to get with the pgm or shut up

[Chinook]

Why are people thinking this is just black and white? Again, I'm going to put on my "mostly baseless speculation" cap for a second. Kawhi could both be injured and want out. If he doesn't trust the Spurs' medical staff and think listening to him will threaten his career, it makes some sense to not play for them again. Whether that's because of issues like with Tiago and Green and Mills (and Kawhi's own history with his ankle injury) or independent of them. The Spurs don't have a tremendous track of dealing with injuries. It's probably not their faults, but I wouldn't know more than people behind the scenes would. One IT-like complication is enough to permanently tank his value. So yes, sitting out could be better for his long-term stock if doing so avoids either a major injury or an extended period of time for other teams to see he's not healthy anymore.

For folks acting like SA would instantly honor a trade request, come the fuck on. They would only move Leonard as a last resort. If one year of Kawhi is supposedly enough for Boston to give up everything they can (it's not, but for argument's sake), then having that penultimate season to try to win with Kawhi has more value than whatever decrease of trade value they can expect (ignoring all the reasons why it'd be better to wait, as I've been saying). They wouldn't entertain trading him until he rejected a contract. He could be jumping up and down right now for a deal (funny considering the injury), and they'd still hold him, hoping against hope he comes back to the court for another dark-horse run to a title. You can always blow it up, but once you do, you can't go back.

I still think the most likely way this plays out is Kawhi signing an extension and either staying long term or being traded in 2019. Kawhi has his cake and eats it too. The team gets a chance at a title run. Kawhi's future team (if not SA) gets him on a long-term deal. Win/win/win(?) for everyone. I don't think we've seen the last of Kawhi as a Spur, but there's not much else to talk about right now other than off-season scenarios, so what can you do?

[tholdren]

Why are people thinking this is just black and white? Again, I'm going to put on my "mostly baseless speculation" cap for a second. Kawhi could both be injured and want out. If he doesn't trust the Spurs' medical staff and think listening to him will threaten his career, it makes some sense to not play for them again. Whether that's because of issues like with Tiago and Green and Mills (and Kawhi's own history with his ankle injury) or independent of them. The Spurs don't have a tremendous track of dealing with injuries. It's probably not their faults, but I wouldn't know more than people behind the scenes would. One IT-like complication is enough to permanently tank his value. So yes, sitting out could be better for his long-term stock if doing so avoids either a major injury or an extended period of time for other teams to see he's not healthy anymore.

For folks acting like SA would instantly honor a trade request, come the fuck on. They would only move Leonard as a last resort. If one year of Kawhi is supposedly enough for Boston to give up everything they can (it's not, but for argument's sake), then having that penultimate season to try to win with Kawhi has more value than whatever decrease of trade value they can expect (ignoring all the reasons why it'd be better to wait, as I've been saying). They wouldn't entertain trading him until he rejected a contract. He could be jumping up and down right now for a deal (funny considering the injury), and they'd still hold him, hoping against hope he comes back to the court for another dark-horse run to a title. You can always blow it up, but once you do, you can't go back.

I still think the most likely way this plays out is Kawhi signing an extension and either staying long term or being traded in 2019. Kawhi has his cake and eats it too. The team gets a chance at a title run. Kawhi's future team (if not SA) gets him on a long-term deal. Win/win/win(?) for everyone. I don't think we've seen the last of Kawhi as a Spur, but there's not much else to talk about right now other than off-season scenarios, so what can you do?

Well you can ask the "star" of the team to man up and give up the real story.

[Chinook]

Well you can ask the "star" of the team to man up and give up the real story.

I don't think anyone but fans want him to. It does the team no favors for Kawhi to say anything.

[Russ]

You can always blow it up, but once you do, you can't go back.

So few of the "GMs" here seem to realize that.

[baseline bum]

Why are people thinking this is just black and white? Again, I'm going to put on my "mostly baseless speculation" cap for a second. Kawhi could both be injured and want out. If he doesn't trust the Spurs' medical staff and think listening to him will threaten his career, it makes some sense to not play for them again. Whether that's because of issues like with Tiago and Green and Mills (and Kawhi's own history with his ankle injury) or independent of them. The Spurs don't have a tremendous track of dealing with injuries. It's probably not their faults, but I wouldn't know more than people behind the scenes would. One IT-like complication is enough to permanently tank his value. So yes, sitting out could be better for his long-term stock if doing so avoids either a major injury or an extended period of time for other teams to see he's not healthy anymore.

For folks acting like SA would instantly honor a trade request, come the fuck on. They would only move Leonard as a last resort. If one year of Kawhi is supposedly enough for Boston to give up everything they can (it's not, but for argument's sake), then having that penultimate season to try to win with Kawhi has more value than whatever decrease of trade value they can expect (ignoring all the reasons why it'd be better to wait, as I've been saying). They wouldn't entertain trading him until he rejected a contract. He could be jumping up and down right now for a deal (funny considering the injury), and they'd still hold him, hoping against hope he comes back to the court for another dark-horse run to a title. You can always blow it up, but once you do, you can't go back.

I still think the most likely way this plays out is Kawhi signing an extension and either staying long term or being traded in 2019. Kawhi has his cake and eats it too. The team gets a chance at a title run. Kawhi's future team (if not SA) gets him on a long-term deal. Win/win/win(?) for everyone. I don't think we've seen the last of Kawhi as a Spur, but there's not much else to talk about right now other than off-season scenarios, so what can you do?

I agree. The only way I'd ever trade Kawhi is right at next year's deadline if he says he is 100% leaving and Boston offers a ton of young talent and picks (I can't think of another team that could make as good of an offer, and obviously Boston only makes that offer if Kawhi agrees to extend there). Even then I'm not sure I'd do it. But if he says he's out this summer you still have at least a year and a half to hopefully beef up the roster and change his mind the same way the Lakers did with Kobe and the Cavs are trying to do with LeBron. It'll probably be fifteen or twenty years before the Spurs could draft another Kawhi.

[bic50]

People overthinking it with the most wild theory that could've existed in recent NBA history..

A nagging injury that's gotten mental for a guy who has shown low-pain tolerance threshold in the past..It is as simple as that, IMO.

The roster and the desire to seek greener pastures in more favorable and familiar market place are secondary issue, at least for now..
Over thinking it

[bic50]

Well you can ask the "star" of the team to man up and give up the real story.
"star". Why the quotations? Are you saying he's not a star of the team? I don't think he really needs to say anything.

[Chinook]

I agree. The only way I'd ever trade Kawhi is right at next year's deadline if he says he is 100% leaving and Boston offers a ton of young talent and picks (I can't think of another team that could make as good of an offer, and obviously Boston only makes that offer if Kawhi agrees to extend there). Even then I'm not sure I'd do it. But if he says he's out this summer you still have at least a year and a half to hopefully beef up the roster and change his mind the same way the Lakers did with Kobe and the Cavs are trying to do with LeBron. It'll probably be fifteen or twenty years before the Spurs could draft another Kawhi.

I think in the very least, they could sell him on a supermax extension and then a trade if he still feels like he wants to go in 2019. He gets a bunch of money locked in, even if he gets injured. SA gets another year to convince him, and they'd probably get a ton of value in a trade with Kawhi under lock and key for five more seasons after the next one. Sure, maybe he wouldn't trust SA to trade him with a long-term deal. But if the downside is to get paid a quarter-billion to play for a city where you already have a house and teammates who already know how to work with you, then it doesn't seem like a nightmare.

[baseline bum]

I think in the very least, they could sell him on a supermax extension and then a trade if he still feels like he wants to go in 2019. He gets a bunch of money locked in, even if he gets injured. SA gets another year to convince him, and they'd probably get a ton of value in a trade with Kawhi under lock and key for five more seasons after the next one. Sure, maybe he wouldn't trust SA to trade him with a long-term deal. But if the downside is to get paid a quarter-billion to play for a city where you already have a house and teammates who already know how to work with you, then it doesn't seem like a nightmare.

I wouldn't make that offer myself. The Spurs would be taking a pretty serious gamble offering Kawhi supermax given no one can figure out his injury, so I'd only offer that if he says he is signing because he is happy here and wants to stay in a Spurs uniform.

[cd98]

I followed the Spurs during the Robinson era and I don’t remember any rumors of him wanting to go to LA.

No, but there were rumors of the Lakers getting him. It was especially true when he missed the first two years by serving in the navy. At the time, it was argued that bc he sat out, he could sign with the Lakers.

[Chinook]

I wouldn't make that offer myself. The Spurs would be taking a pretty serious gamble offering Kawhi supermax given no one can figure out his injury, so I'd only offer that if he says he is signing because he is happy here and wants to stay in a Spurs uniform.

If the Spurs don't think they understand his injury, they should fire their doctors immediately. Supposedly, they think he's fine or should be fine. If that's the case, then they shouldn't be worried about him legitimately behind too hurt to play long-term. If the meta-theories about that are incorrect and the Spurs do believe he's injured, then that changes a lot of scenarios, including whether to offer the supermax at all. Again, one of the posters here said he heard that doctors described Kawhi's injuries as degenerative. That's hopefully extremely untrue. But if that's the case, it's irresponsible to give him a long-term deal. There's a difference between hoping for a storm to come in to water your crops and tilling a field in the sand and hoping for it to turn into soil.

[baseline bum]

No, but there were rumors of the Lakers getting him. It was especially true when he missed the first two years by serving in the navy. At the time, it was argued that bc he sat out, he could sign with the Lakers.

It was more like Rick Barry's wet dream. I went to greet David and his family at the airport right after either the draft or the draft lottery (I can't remember which since it was 30 years ago :lol) and he looked pretty happy to be in San Antonio.

[Proxy]

LMA is live atm, all star interview

[spurs10]

Why are people thinking this is just black and white? Again, I'm going to put on my "mostly baseless speculation" cap for a second. Kawhi could both be injured and want out. If he doesn't trust the Spurs' medical staff and think listening to him will threaten his career, it makes some sense to not play for them again. Whether that's because of issues like with Tiago and Green and Mills (and Kawhi's own history with his ankle injury) or independent of them. The Spurs don't have a tremendous track of dealing with injuries. It's probably not their faults, but I wouldn't know more than people behind the scenes would. One IT-like complication is enough to permanently tank his value. So yes, sitting out could be better for his long-term stock if doing so avoids either a major injury or an extended period of time for other teams to see he's not healthy anymore.

For folks acting like SA would instantly honor a trade request, come the fuck on. They would only move Leonard as a last resort. If one year of Kawhi is supposedly enough for Boston to give up everything they can (it's not, but for argument's sake), then having that penultimate season to try to win with Kawhi has more value than whatever decrease of trade value they can expect (ignoring all the reasons why it'd be better to wait, as I've been saying). They wouldn't entertain trading him until he rejected a contract. He could be jumping up and down right now for a deal (funny considering the injury), and they'd still hold him, hoping against hope he comes back to the court for another dark-horse run to a title. You can always blow it up, but once you do, you can't go back.

I still think the most likely way this plays out is Kawhi signing an extension and either staying long term or being traded in 2019. Kawhi has his cake and eats it too. The team gets a chance at a title run. Kawhi's future team (if not SA) gets him on a long-term deal. Win/win/win(?) for everyone. I don't think we've seen the last of Kawhi as a Spur, but there's not much else to talk about right now other than off-season scenarios, so what can you do? Yes the Spurs are not going to trade Kawhi because he’d like one, if he does. They signed him to a $90 million deal. So far he is getting paid $2 million a game this season. They are going to want something for all this money we can be sure. Again he has nothing to gain by not playing.

[Proxy]

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1yoJMkdNnEYKQ

[cd98]

Why are people thinking this is just black and white? Again, I'm going to put on my "mostly baseless speculation" cap for a second. Kawhi could both be injured and want out. If he doesn't trust the Spurs' medical staff and think listening to him will threaten his career, it makes some sense to not play for them again. Whether that's because of issues like with Tiago and Green and Mills (and Kawhi's own history with his ankle injury) or independent of them. The Spurs don't have a tremendous track of dealing with injuries. It's probably not their faults, but I wouldn't know more than people behind the scenes would. One IT-like complication is enough to permanently tank his value. So yes, sitting out could be better for his long-term stock if doing so avoids either a major injury or an extended period of time for other teams to see he's not healthy anymore.

For folks acting like SA would instantly honor a trade request, come the fuck on. They would only move Leonard as a last resort. If one year of Kawhi is supposedly enough for Boston to give up everything they can (it's not, but for argument's sake), then having that penultimate season to try to win with Kawhi has more value than whatever decrease of trade value they can expect (ignoring all the reasons why it'd be better to wait, as I've been saying). They wouldn't entertain trading him until he rejected a contract. He could be jumping up and down right now for a deal (funny considering the injury), and they'd still hold him, hoping against hope he comes back to the court for another dark-horse run to a title. You can always blow it up, but once you do, you can't go back.

I still think the most likely way this plays out is Kawhi signing an extension and either staying long term or being traded in 2019. Kawhi has his cake and eats it too. The team gets a chance at a title run. Kawhi's future team (if not SA) gets him on a long-term deal. Win/win/win(?) for everyone. I don't think we've seen the last of Kawhi as a Spur, but there's not much else to talk about right now other than off-season scenarios, so what can you do?

i think Spurs would trade Kawhi like the Jazz traded Williams. If the writing was on the wall, you trade him while you can get max value...

[baseline bum]

If the Spurs don't think they understand his injury, they should fire their doctors immediately. Supposedly, they think he's fine or should be fine. If that's the case, then they shouldn't be worried about him legitimately behind too hurt to play long-term. If the meta-theories about that are incorrect and the Spurs do believe he's injured, then that changes a lot of scenarios, including whether to offer the supermax at all. Again, one of the posters here said he heard that doctors described Kawhi's injuries as degenerative. That's hopefully extremely untrue. But if that's the case, it's irresponsible to give him a long-term deal. There's a difference between hoping for a storm to come in to water your crops and tilling a field in the sand and hoping for it to turn into soil.

Given all the injury problems this team has had for the last 20 years I don't have a lot of faith in the medical staff one way or the other.

[boutons_deux]

Given all the injury problems this team has had for the last 20 years I don't have a lot of faith in the medical staff one way or the other.

non-contact pro basketball teams all have injuries.

Which Spurs injuries were above-NBA-avg caused by, badly treated by Spurs docs?

[Chinook]

i think Spurs would trade Kawhi like the Jazz traded Williams. If the writing was on the wall, you trade him while you can get max value...

The Spurs have never cared about getting value in their trades. Utah got a great nominal haul for that deal, but it ended up being pretty terrible for them all things consider.

[Chinook]

Given all the injury problems this team has had for the last 20 years I don't have a lot of faith in the medical staff one way or the other.

I definitely think PATFO has been low-key shitty when it comes to how they handle players. But they either need to have confidence in their staff or not. No point in keeping doctors you don't trust.

[baseline bum]

I definitely think PATFO has been low-key shitty when it comes to how they handle players. But they either need to have confidence in their staff or not. No point in keeping doctors you don't trust.

I wish Holt would have gotten on his knees, pulled out his checkbook, and begged Phoenix's staff to come here after they gave Grant Hill his career back. And then Nash, damn he was a shell of himself and always banged up to hell with the Lakers' team doctors.

[spursistan]

Given all the injury problems this team has had for the last 20 years I don't have a lot of faith in the medical staff one way or the other.
955495748480765954

Yeah, I mean like sure..:rolleyes

[TD 21]

Again, there's zero reason why Boston would trade for Kawhi. They have Hayward locked in for three more years and two players they really liked on rookie deals. If Gordon were healthy and just not clicking, maybe. But they are almost certainly more inclined to see what they already have than make any substantial change at the wing. By far, the best thing PATFO can do is wait until the draft and pick their own guy. LAC has two picks in the lottery this season. Neither is great, but that doesn't matter if they guys PATFO want fall to them. I have no idea at all whom that would be (don't even have DX anymore to check prospects out), but if someone they think can be a really good player is there, those picks plus Harris for Kawhi and Patty and/or Pau could easily outclass a Boston deal. There are others too, like a deal with Phoenix (who could have two lottery picks themselves including the a top-three pick).


The Spurs could have a young group with Murray and the haul from the deal with the potential additions of guys like Anderson, Bertans and Milutinov. They'd also still have a vet core of Parker, Green and Aldridge to keep the team watchable. Finally, they'd have no bad salary on their books going forward and a legit chance to FINALLY fix their weaknesses at the guard spots. That feels like a much better prognosis than trading for Boston's guys and then hoping to be bad enough to get a real star in the lottery. People don't even want to watch the team when they are firmly in the playoff race. They damned sure aren't going to watch a tanking Spurs team, despite what all the people who are pushing for a completely bottom-out seem to think.

I already explained the reasons. It's simple: It's almost impossible to build a true contender in this league and when you're one move away and have the chance to land the most important piece, you don't "wait and see" because of 2 good-very good prospects. In addition to their core 4 (3 of which are relatively young) and other young players, they'd also still have a bunch of valuable picks coming.

From Spurs perspective, they couldn't beat two blue chip prospects, who play Leonard's position (one of whom is an archetype), plus a 1st and Morris, who could be re-routed for a 2nd or lesser young player.

Clippers package wouldn't even be close. Tatum looks like a better version of Harris in the making, there is no comparable for Brown or Morris and Clippers and Pistons picks are likely to be late lottery. Also, in Celtics trade, Spurs would already save money, but doing so wouldn't be as valuable with Leonard replaced by 2 players on entry level contracts for the next 2 and 3 seasons respectively.

Suns could maybe offer a similar package to Celtics (although, with Brown and Tatum, we already know they're going to be good players; there's no way to be sure of the top prospects in this draft), but wouldn't for the same reason they didn't for Irving: Leonard would inevitably walk.



I agree. For the price they are paying, they'd pull the trigger without Kawhi saying he'd stay for sure. Not only did it seem to work for George and OKC, but they also have their history with CP3. If Kawhi wants to be in LA, LAC will be good enough for him. I doubt he'd pass up a Bird-max with his injuries.

The reason it might work for Thunder, is the presence of an incumbent superstar. Clippers can't sell him on so much as another star, nor young player(s) with that upside.

[MaNu4Tres]

I already explained the reasons. It's simple: It's almost impossible to build a true contender in this league and when you're one move away and have the chance to land the most important piece, you don't "wait and see" because of 2 good-very good prospects. In addition to their core 4 (3 of which are relatively young) and other young players, they'd also still have a bunch of valuable picks coming.

From Spurs perspective, they couldn't beat two blue chip prospects, who play Leonard's position (one of whom is an archetype), plus a 1st and Morris, who could be re-routed for a 2nd or lesser young player.

Clippers package wouldn't even be close. Tatum looks like a better version of Harris in the making, there is no comparable for Brown or Morris and Clippers and Pistons picks are likely to be late lottery. Also, in Celtics trade, Spurs would already save money, but doing so wouldn't be as valuable with Leonard replaced by 2 players on entry level contracts for the next 2 and 3 seasons respectively.

Suns could maybe offer a similar package to Celtics (although, with Brown and Tatum, we already know they're going to be good players; there's no way to be sure of the top prospects in this draft), but wouldn't for the same reason they didn't for Irving: Leonard would inevitably walk.




The reason it might work for Thunder, is the presence of an incumbent superstar. Clippers can't sell him on so much as another star, nor young player(s) with that upside.

I prefer the Celtics deal as well. This summer should be very interesting.

[Chinook]

I already explained the reasons.

Yes, and I've disagreed with them. I don't think those are good reasons. I think Davis is a much more helpful target to them than a Leonard the team is willing to give up.

I also don't really think Tatum and Brown are tremendous prospects. That's just my opinion and can be wrong of course. But PATFO aren't looking at maximizing value in any trade. They are looking to build the best team they can. That means getting guys they like, not guys other teams consider "blue-chip prospects". Maybe those are one in the same, and they do really like Tatum and Brown. Maybe they like Josh Jackson and Marquise Chriss/Dragan Bender better. Maybe Ingram and Kuzma are their wet dreams. Maybe there are guys in the draft they truly believe in. Ultimately, whether a trade is workable for the team would come down to how they fare after making it. Winning the immediate value game doesn't matter.

As I said and will maintain, I don't think a Boston/SA Kawhi trade would be a good fit for either side. Ainge likely wouldn't want to completely blow Boston's load adding to their strongest position, and PATFO may not want to be locked into Boston's interpretation of good potential. It may happen, but both sides have other options they'll probably explore first. (And this is ignoring that Boston players have been turning into shit on the regular once they leave Stevens' system.)


The reason it might work for Thunder, is the presence of an incumbent superstar. Clippers can't sell him on so much as another star, nor young player(s) with that upside.

They'd have legit homefield advantage, which OKC can't sell, in addition to a relatively clean cap to add players to him. If LA is strong enough to draw Kawhi away from a team coming off a WCF run, then it's probably strong enough to keep him with the plan of adding another star.

[TD 21]

Yes, and I've disagreed with them. I don't think those are good reasons. I think Davis is a much more helpful target to them than a Leonard the team is willing to give up.

I also don't really think Tatum and Brown are tremendous prospects. That's just my opinion and can be wrong of course. But PATFO aren't looking at maximizing value in any trade. They are looking to build the best team they can. That means getting guys they like, not guys other teams consider "blue-chip prospects". Maybe those are one in the same, and they do really like Tatum and Brown. Maybe they like Josh Jackson and Marquise Chriss/Dragan Bender better. Maybe Ingram and Kuzma are their wet dreams. Maybe there are guys in the draft they truly believe in. Ultimately, whether a trade is workable for the team would come down to how they fare after making it. Winning the immediate value game doesn't matter.

As I said and will maintain, I don't think a Boston/SA Kawhi trade would be a good fit for either side. Ainge likely wouldn't want to completely blow Boston's load adding to their strongest position, and PATFO may not want to be locked into Boston's interpretation of good potential. It may happen, but both sides have other options they'll probably explore first. (And this is ignoring that Boston players have been turning into shit on the regular once they leave Stevens' system.)



They'd have legit homefield advantage, which OKC can't sell, in addition to a relatively clean cap to add players to him. If LA is strong enough to draw Kawhi away from a team coming off a WCF run, then it's probably strong enough to keep him with the plan of adding another star.

That's fine, but don't pretend there's "zero reasons" when there clearly are. Leonard is considered better than Davis and in this scenario, is the one guaranteed to be available.

:lmao At "not looking to maximize value" for a top 3 player. This would mean starting over, meaning how they've operated over the past 2 decades would be mostly out the window. Also, unlike the majority of prospects you named who are giant question marks, Brown and Tatum are already starting caliber players and they fit with the way the game has evolved, so they'd jive with building the best team they can too. Finally, if you're going to deal a superstar, it's best to get them out of conference.

You're naïve as to how this league works. Again, they wouldn't be blowing their load (but if you're going to, this is what you blow it for). 3 of their 4 stars would still be relatively young, they'd have other decent young players/prospects surrounding them and a bunch more valuable picks coming to supplement them.

You're equating 2 high end prospects to busted hip Thomas and role player Bradley. Stevens' magical "system" has contributed to producing a 20th ranked offense, despite having everything you need to build a good modern offense outside of a 2nd creator on the perimeter.

The biggest selling point for superstars/stars is having an incumbent superstar. Spurs are the exception because their superstar has failed to cultivate relationships with other superstars/stars and they don't appeal culturally to them either.

[Chinook]

That's fine, but don't pretend there's "zero reasons" when there clearly are. Leonard is considered better than Davis and in this scenario, is the one guaranteed to be available.

I don't consider bad reasons to be real reasons and thusly dismiss them. Leonard is not clearly better than Davis because he's not healthy and may never be again. This isn't a Kyrie situation. Kawhi comes back healthy and engaged, and it's a different story from the bottom up, including how SA would play this summer.


:lmao At "not looking to maximize value" for a top 3 player. This would mean starting over, meaning how they've operated over the past 2 decades would be mostly out the window. Also, unlike the majority of prospects you named who are giant question marks, Brown and Tatum are already starting caliber players and they fit with the way the game has evolved, so they'd jive with building the best team they can too. Finally, if you're going to deal a superstar, it's best to get them out of conference.

*sigh* They aren't looking to win the trade in articles by guys like Lowe or in your esteemed evaluation on what they should get. You think Brown and Tatum are great pieces, and that might end up being true. I don't, and that might end up being true. However, it only matter if PATFO think that's whom they want. The team would be wise to do their own evaluations and not just go with guys who are hyped up, because hype doesn't win games. "Value" doesn't win games.


You're naïve as to how this league works. Again, they wouldn't be blowing their load (but if you're going to, this is what you blow it for). 3 of their 4 stars would still be relatively young, they'd have other decent young players/prospects surrounding them and a bunch more valuable picks coming to supplement them.

They only have one really good pick coming up. The others are probably picks in the middle of the draft. Even the SAC/LAL pick can't be better than second-overall and could easily be sixth or seventh. Having Irving, aging Horford and two wings coming off leg injuries is not a no-brainer. A Kawhi who is too hurt to play for any team not in Los Angeles simply isn't worth breaking your back over, at least for Ainge, who wouldn't give up picks for Butler or George.


You're equating 2 high end prospects to busted hip Thomas and role player Bradley. Stevens' magical "system" has contributed to producing a 20th ranked offense, despite having everything you need to build a good modern offense outside of a 2nd creator on the perimeter.

Yes, I'm equating guys who scored very well in the Celtics' offense before to guys scoring well in it now. That the current guys aren't scoring as well as their predecessors would suggest they aren't nearly as slam-dunk as they're reported as being to anyone who isn't trying to prop up their argument. You're talking about role-players as if they're established stars while also pointing out that the Celtics don't even have a second banana. Just not a good position to defend.


The biggest selling point for superstars/stars is having an incumbent superstar. Spurs are the exception because their superstar has failed to cultivate relationships with other superstars/stars and they don't appeal culturally to them either.

That's the biggest selling point to some stars, especially those who are looking to join other teams. It's not necessarily what Kawhi wants. Leonard apparently doesn't want to recruit any other players, yet you think those other players are going to be what makes him re-sign. It's not a consistent argument either. If Kawhi is willing/desiring to leave SA, it's not because he can't win there. He's gotten closer with SA than most of his peers have gotten other places (already has his ring and has only missed the third round twice in his career). He'd be leaving SA to go home, and home is home whether you have a Robin there or not.

[vy65]

Given all the injury problems this team has had for the last 20 years I don't have a lot of faith in the medical staff one way or the other.

This kind of doesn't make any sense though. Whether rightfully or wrongfully, PATFO has a reputation of having cultivated a preeminent organization. You'd think some of the best sports doctors would eventually flock to that organization. It doesn't make sense that they'd hang on to the same, second rate medical staff after decades of success.

Either means PATFO is incompetent in evaluating medical talent (a real possibility) or the medical staff is actually pretty decent. I'm prone to believe the former than the latter.

[TD 21]

I don't consider bad reasons to be real reasons and thusly dismiss them. Leonard is not clearly better than Davis because he's not healthy and may never be again. This isn't a Kyrie situation. Kawhi comes back healthy and engaged, and it's a different story from the bottom up, including how SA would play this summer.


Yeah, having a legit chance to win a championship is a terrible reason. Obviously, any team would do their due diligence, but he hasn't torn anything or had surgery and no one has said this is going to be career altering. It would be a calculated risk, but so was trading for Irving, who has had durability issues and so would be waiting on and trading for Davis, who also has.


*sigh* They aren't looking to win the trade in articles by guys like Lowe or in your esteemed evaluation on what they should get. You think Brown and Tatum are great pieces, and that might end up being true. I don't, and that might end up being true. However, it only matter if PATFO think that's whom they want. The team would be wise to do their own evaluations and not just go with guys who are hyped up, because hype doesn't win games. "Value" doesn't win games.

As if it couldn't be one in the same. Obviously, they'd do their own evaluations, but it's equally obvious that Celtics can offer the biggest haul for the next superstar who hits the trade market. Once again, you expose how little you know about the league.


They only have one really good pick coming up. The others are probably picks in the middle of the draft. Even the SAC/LAL pick can't be better than second-overall and could easily be sixth or seventh. Having Irving, aging Horford and two wings coming off leg injuries is not a no-brainer. A Kawhi who is too hurt to play for any team not in Los Angeles simply isn't worth breaking your back over, at least for Ainge, who wouldn't give up picks for Butler or George.


They have 2-3 picks that are likely to be very valuable and depth of picks beyond that. It's a no brainer because their current core isn't championship caliber or likely to be, so you take the calculated risk and force Leonard to walk away from a true contender. Butler/George aren't in Leonard's class.



Yes, I'm equating guys who scored very well in the Celtics' offense before to guys scoring well in it now. That the current guys aren't scoring as well as their predecessors would suggest they aren't nearly as slam-dunk as they're reported as being to anyone who isn't trying to prop up their argument. You're talking about role-players as if they're established stars while also pointing out that the Celtics don't even have a second banana. Just not a good position to defend.



:lmao Now you're basing value off of ppg and doing so without context. Thomas averaged 3-4 more mpg and had a usage rate 13-15% higher than Tatum/Brown and while Bradley's usage rate was similar to Tatum/Brown, he was doing so in similar mpg to Thomas. I'm saying, there's a baseline to Tatum/Brown already, that there isn't to most of the other prospects you named. You trade a player the magnitude of Leonard, unless it's a prospect thought to be can't miss, you're going to want some certainty.


That's the biggest selling point to some stars, especially those who are looking to join other teams. It's not necessarily what Kawhi wants. Leonard apparently doesn't want to recruit any other players, yet you think those other players are going to be what makes him re-sign. It's not a consistent argument either. If Kawhi is willing/desiring to leave SA, it's not because he can't win there. He's gotten closer with SA than most of his peers have gotten other places (already has his ring and has only missed the third round twice in his career). He'd be leaving SA to go home, and home is home whether you have a Robin there or not.

I didn't say Leonard would necessarily re-sign, I said you make him walk away from about as appealing a situation as you can create, if you're Celtics. Also, if he's even remotely interested in contending, he needs other superstars/stars to win, so I'd imagine having that would hold appeal, as well as not having to play recruiter. He hasn't had a chance to win with Spurs since becoming a superstar and barring a Walker trade, won't anytime soon either.

[cd98]

It was more like Rick Barry's wet dream. I went to greet David and his family at the airport right after either the draft or the draft lottery (I can't remember which since it was 30 years ago :lol) and he looked pretty happy to be in San Antonio.

I agree. My point was ignore the rumors. I doubt Kawhi is going anywhere when he has a top 5 team and stands to make the super max.

[SAGirl]

964988864787025920
964992821773176832

[cd98]

The Spurs have never cared about getting value in their trades. Utah got a great nominal haul for that deal, but it ended up being pretty terrible for them all things consider.

Spurs have never traded a Kawhi caliber player in his prime. They will care about getting max value. That’s why they didn’t trade LMA.

[MoSpur02]

964988864787025920
964992821773176832

Interesting. Not even Aldridge is confident in getting Kawhi back this season.

[SAGirl]

Interesting. Not even Aldridge is confident in getting Kawhi back this season.
Yup. I thought it was relevant. Neither RC nor Lamarcus sound confident. They talk more about hoping he'll be back in time than anything else.

His tendinopathy has to be a chronic thing at this point. Nothing lasts this long after rehabbing without it being a chronic thing. I still remain more concerned about his tendon being "Tiago's calf" than I am about the uncle.

Hopefully this is all a bunch of uncertainty and he will play. I can only imagine. If this has been frustrating and nerve wrecking to us fans, imagine how it is to teammates. No one knows.

[spurs10]

Interesting. Not even Aldridge is confident in getting Kawhi back this season. Well he is being honest ‘we need him back’ and ‘I don’t know’ if he is coming back. I guess his teammates are in the dark as we are....something’s gotta give.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The more I think about Kawhi in LA the less I believe it will happen. Kawhi hates the interviews and media spotlight and in LA he won't be able to get away from it. SA is perfect for him. If he's set on being the MVP and flying under the radar otherwise, there's no better spot for him.

Leonard's not leaving.







I feel better already.

[Clipper Nation]

The more I think about Kawhi in LA the less I believe it will happen. Kawhi hates the interviews and media spotlight and in LA he won't be able to get away from it. SA is perfect for him. If he's set on being the MVP and flying under the radar otherwise, there's no better spot for him.

Leonard's not leaving.







I feel better already.
He'd still be mostly insulated from the media as a Clipper. The local media slurps the Lakers at all times, even now. The national media hates the Clippers and would rather talk about any other team.

[MoSpur02]

Tom Orsborn:*Asked LA if he’s confident Kawhi will be back after the break: “Uh, I don’t know. I don’t have anything to say.”

[lmbebo]

Tom Orsborn:*Asked LA if he’s confident Kawhi will be back after the break: “Uh, I don’t know. I don’t have anything to say.”

That quote irked me

[Slippy]

The more I think about Kawhi in LA the less I believe it will happen. Kawhi hates the interviews and media spotlight and in LA he won't be able to get away from it. SA is perfect for him. If he's set on being the MVP and flying under the radar otherwise, there's no better spot for him.

Leonard's not leaving.







I feel better already.

I feel the same.

The point of contention aside from the fact he not healthy surely gotta be this supermax deal. The spurs would be concerned bout his health. The uncle gotta do his job. He probably using LA as a bargaing chip to make sure supermax still happens - despite the concerns about kawai getting back to his old fit self.

[spurs10]

If Kawhi was working out in SA people would know about. The reason RC and LMA don’t know anything is likely because they haven’t seen or heard from him. If I was paying someone $100,000 a day I’d like to know the minutea of every day!

[Chinook]

Yeah, having a legit chance to win a championship is a terrible reason. Obviously, any team would do their due diligence, but he hasn't torn anything or had surgery and no one has said this is going to be career altering. It would be a calculated risk, but so was trading for Irving, who has had durability issues and so would be waiting on and trading for Davis, who also has.

Leonard is injured. That's not the same thing as just having a rep for missing games. Assuming a physical would pan out after we've seen little sign of him getting better for all this time is weird. In a scenario where Kawhi is completely healthy, the Spurs likely wouldn't trade him to Boston or anywhere else. And in a scenario where he's faking it to go to LA, I am not sure why Boston or anyone else would feel confident in him. In a final scenario where he's healthyish but doesn't trust team doctors, he's not going to want anything to do with Boston's giving how they messed over Thomas.


As if it couldn't be one in the same. Obviously, they'd do their own evaluations, but it's equally obvious that Celtics can offer the biggest haul for the next superstar who hits the trade market. Once again, you expose how little you know about the league.

I've said it could be one in the same in every post during this debate. That you bring that up as if it's a new take is silly. Anyway, you keep on missing the point that I'm making then having the gall to condescend about my ignorance. Tatum objectively has more value than, say the 10th-overall pick in the upcoming draft. LAC would trade such a pick for Tatum, and Boston would not. Therefore doing a trade where he's the centerpiece for Kawhi is more valuable than a trade centered around the 10th pick. If the guy at 10 is a player the Spurs like/believe in more than Tatum, then they should go with that, value be damned. If the guy they would have picked is a better player in five years than Tatum, it does them no good to have gone with value in June. The draft isn't an actual crap-shoot like so many folks argue it is. There's real skill involved in scouting and navigating the board. PATFO has been crazy good at outperforming their draft slot. They shouldn't be expect to get a guy as good as Kawhi at 10, but they damned sure could do better than Tatum or Ingram.


They have 2-3 picks that are likely to be very valuable and depth of picks beyond that. It's a no brainer because their current core isn't championship caliber or likely to be, so you take the calculated risk and force Leonard to walk away from a true contender. Butler/George aren't in Leonard's class.

Those picks aren't likely to be good "valuable" as they may be.

These are them:

2019 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 1st round pick to Boston (via Memphis) protected for selections 1-14 in 2019 and 1-14 in 2020; if the L.A. Clippers have not conveyed a 1st round pick to Boston by 2020, then the L.A. Clippers will instead convey their 2022 2nd round pick to Boston [L.A. Clippers-Memphis, 2/18/2016; Boston-Memphis, 6/23/2016]
2019 first round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 1st round pick to Boston protected for selections 1-8 in 2019 and 1-6 in 2020 and unprotected in 2021 [Boston-Memphis-New Orleans, 1/12/2015]

You have a LAC pick that will either be non-lottery or seconds and a Memphis pick that will be late-lottery until 2021 at best. Those are middling assets, not really worth comparing to Tatum and Brown in terms of how much Boston seems to value them.


:lmao Now you're basing value off of ppg and doing so without context. Thomas averaged 3-4 more mpg and had a usage rate 13-15% higher than Tatum/Brown and while Bradley's usage rate was similar to Tatum/Brown, he was doing so in similar mpg to Thomas. I'm saying, there's a baseline to Tatum/Brown already, that there isn't to most of the other prospects you named. You trade a player the magnitude of Leonard, unless it's a prospect thought to be can't miss, you're going to want some certainty.

I find this pretty indefensible. The Spurs already have a baseline of mediocrity to work with in the form of this Aldridge-led team. You don't trade a star and worry about getting a base hit. You swing for the fences. They can make the playoffs and be decent even if they draft busts with the potential Leonard picks.
You go for whomever you think can get you above the ceiling. And no, I'm not basing value off anything. I'm saying your argument is illogical. If Brown and Tatum are unable to score at a competent NBA level (as Bradley did), then they haven't really proven anything elite yet. Comparing Thomas to them is foolish, given that Irving already replaced him. Brown and Tatum replaced Bradley and Crowder. That shift has apparently led them to an offense so bad that Stevens hasn't been able to save it. Or whatever. It's your argument, not mine. My argument is that Stevens runs a system friendly to player's production and that looking good in Boston isn't a stable sample. I sure am not using it as a foundation to project future production on other teams.


I didn't say Leonard would necessarily re-sign, I said you make him walk away from about as appealing a situation as you can create, if you're Celtics. Also, if he's even remotely interested in contending, he needs other superstars/stars to win, so I'd imagine having that would hold appeal, as well as not having to play recruiter. He hasn't had a chance to win with Spurs since becoming a superstar and barring a Walker trade, won't anytime soon either.

If the Spurs are a Walker trade away from taking down the Warriors, then leaving "to contend" makes little sense. That trade is only going to get more possible as the season draws to a close. The avenues the team has to complete such a deal are much more open factoring in July cap space, including just letting Danny walk, trading Kemba into cap space and trading Gasol for bad salary from Charlotte. However, this thread and any impact that can be drawn from it said nothing about Kawhi leaving for LA because he thinks they're closer to a title. He's apparently keen to be a Laker and to be back home. So I see Boston being a "true contender" with him appealing enough to persuade him if the Spurs being just one player away and able to offer so much more money isn't

[Chinook]

Spurs have never traded a Kawhi caliber player in his prime. They will care about getting max value. That’s why they didn’t trade LMA.

They're not going to care at all about it. "Value" refers to the objective or consensus worth of the assets. I don't think it matters to them at all whether they maximize their potential there. It's going to be all about the players they get and what they want to do with them, and that may come in the form of guys like Tatum, or it may come from draft picks. They have to get the best they can as judged in 2021 or 2022, not in 2018.

[tholdren]

Kl needs traded

[bic50]

Kl needs traded
Glad you don't run the team

[tholdren]

Glad you don't run the team

Yep it would suck because i would have players that play...

[bic50]

Yep it would suck because i would have players that play...
Like who?

[tholdren]

Like who?

Not kl

[cd98]

They're not going to care at all about it. "Value" refers to the objective or consensus worth of the assets. I don't think it matters to them at all whether they maximize their potential there. It's going to be all about the players they get and what they want to do with them, and that may come in the form of guys like Tatum, or it may come from draft picks. They have to get the best they can as judged in 2021 or 2022, not in 2018.

I’m not saying he would be traded for players. Probably some combination. But if you wait too long to trade him, teams will opt not to give up valuable assets, whatever they are, because they can just sign him as a free agent. He would optimally have been traded before going into his last year if he made it clear he wanted out.

But I don’t by it. The Super Max is something that if he passes he’ll never recover. At 32, he can take a pay cut to play where he wants, but I can’t see him turning down The super max just to play in LA bc he’s from there. I’d bet he dreamed more about making millions than just playing for the Lakers. The Spurs have always put a competitive team on the floor. The Lakers haven’t since Kupcheck who really enjoyed Jerry West’s fruits. Jerry West isn’t with the Lakers. There’s no guarantee that Lakers won’t screw up their cap space...they just screwed up the draft (Ball isn’t Jason Kidd).

I think Kawhi resigns for the Super Max if the Spurs are confident he will be healthy.

[bic50]

Not kl
Thanks for the non answer. Smh

[tholdren]

Thanks for the non answer. Smh

Spurs trade kl.for...

[offset formation]

955495748480765954

Yeah, I mean like sure..:rolleyes

[Play Boban]

ok boban
:cry

[Darius Bieber]

Been telling you guys since day 1: Grant Hill 2.0

[Keepin' it real]

Been telling you guys since day 1: Grant Hill 2.0

https://m.popkey.co/e04f7e/mERLy.gif

https://media1.tenor.com/images/c13e060de5fbb7c3f9a22bd0b82c5487/tenor.gif?itemid=5749764

[tholdren]

https://m.popkey.co/e04f7e/mERLy.gif

https://media1.tenor.com/images/c13e060de5fbb7c3f9a22bd0b82c5487/tenor.gif?itemid=5749764

He sucks

[bic50]

Spurs trade kl.for...
No one apparently. I asked you who you would want and you couldn't answer.

[ulosturedge]

What I find kind of disturbing is the timing of Lamarcus's extension in all this. I mean I would have thought it would have been a wait and see approach even after Aldridge and Pop had that big talk. We heard nothing and then there was this extension for Aldridge out of nowhere. It makes me think could this have some correlation with the Kawhi issues. I mean be it a "he wants out" or "he is damaged goods" issue. Hopefully there is no correlation, but I found it odd none the less.

[Chinook]

What I find kind of disturbing is the timing of Lamarcus's extension in all this. I mean I would have thought it would have been a wait and see approach even after Aldridge and Pop had that big talk. We heard nothing and then there was this extension for Aldridge out of nowhere. It makes me think could this have some correlation with the Kawhi issues. I mean be it a "he wants out" or "he is damaged goods" issue. Hopefully there is no correlation, but I found it odd none the less.

I've mentioned that timing too, especially in relation to the initial rumors that Kawhi wanted out. However, the timing wasn't just talk, then, extension mysteriously. It was talk, then camp, then LMA tearing it up in the pre-season, then it was extension. I'm having a hard time understanding this retroactive regret for LMA's deal. He looked like he earned it then, and it's only gotten better now.

[ECOV]

https://m.popkey.co/e04f7e/mERLy.gif

https://media1.tenor.com/images/c13e060de5fbb7c3f9a22bd0b82c5487/tenor.gif?itemid=5749764

[mo7888]

I've mentioned that timing too, especially in relation to the initial rumors that Kawhi wanted out. However, the timing wasn't just talk, then, extension mysteriously. It was talk, then camp, then LMA tearing it up in the pre-season, then it was extension. I'm having a hard time understanding this retroactive regret for LMA's deal. He looked like he earned it then, and it's only gotten better now.

I don't understand the negativity around the Aldridge deal either. That contract is a bargain on today's market and even if things blow up with Kawhi, Aldridge's contract is very tradeable. There really is no downside.

[barbacoataco]

How common is it for a player to miss a whole season for an injury where there was no surgery?

[Hoops Czar]

How common is it for a player to miss a whole season for an injury where there was no surgery?
A very reliable source has told me that Rudy Gay's step mom wants him to move to LA. Take it with a grain of salt but my source also said that his bursitis is gone and doctors have cleared him for play weeks ago. Again, please don't shoot the messenger. This what I've been told and my sources have never steered me wrong before. Something is clearly going on behind the scenes.

[tholdren]

How common is it for a player to miss a whole season for an injury where there was no surgery?

With absolutely no updates, diagnosis or prognosis? I would say it has never happened

[BSfromTX]

This whole situation reeks of cover up. Kawhi has been forced to be another Timmy and I believe he doesn’t care much about being “under the radar” or to continue like Timmy..... and I can see family telling him to go get his.

unfortunately this league has become about self promotion and everyone is out to get theirs

[YGWHI]

Was told this today from a pretty reliable source.
I'm sure your source t's not a close source to Kawhi because his best friends -in fact one of them works for the Spurs and everyone knows who is- say otherwise.

I would say it's very stupid to bring the LA connection..."Oh he's from Riverside so he wants to play in SA" like some guys are doing in this thread. You're so wrong.

There are multiple reasons why Kawhi doesn't want to play in LA.

Some are basketball related but others are personal and private related to the "same family" people here want to believe he wants to stay close.

If someone says Kawhi wants to play in LA for his family I :lol because it's pretty obvious that guy doesn't know Kawhi and his family's history.

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm sure your source t's not a close source to Kawhi because his best friends -in fact one of them works for the Spurs and everyone knows who is- say otherwise.

I would say it's very stupid to bring the LA connection..."Oh he's from Riverside so he wants to play in SA" like some guys are doing in this thread. You're so wrong.

There are multiple reasons why Kawhi doesn't want to play in LA. Some are basketball related but the most reasons are personal and private related to the same family people here want to believe he wants to stay close.

If someone says Kawhi wants to play in LA for his family I :lol because it's pretty obvious that guy doesn't know Kawhi and his family's history.

Quick question: Do you honestly think I give a care about what you think?

Nothing you say is going to change the words out of the my sources mouth. You're right, my source isn't close to Kawhi, but he's close to the Spurs. I heard what I heard and I trust my source. There's a chance Kawhi can still be a Spur after all this is said and done, just like it was for LA -- doesn't change anything that has gone on this year and that's going on right now.

[YGWHI]

Kawhi and his family are from Riverside (which is 35-40 miles from LA).
But you really know that Kawhi is from Moreno Valley, right. And trust me everyone hates LA in MurdaV...I guess your "source" ignores a lot of things about how these things works in SoCal.

[MaNu4Tres]

But you really know that Kawhi is from Moreno Valley, right. And trust me everyone hates LA in MurdaV...I guess your "source" ignores a lot of things about how these things works in SoCal.

My source said Kawhi's Uncle has been in Kawhis' ear all year about going to LA for his next contract and it looks like Kawhi has been buying into it as the season has gone on (and Spurs are pretty pissed about how Robertson is running things for Kawhi). I mentioned Riverside (County) because that's where he's from -- Moreno Valley is inside Riverside County.

Anything else?

[UZER]

This whole situation reeks of cover up. Kawhi has been forced to be another Timmy and I believe he doesn’t care much about being “under the radar” or to continue like Timmy..... and I can see family telling him to go get his.

unfortunately this league has become about self promotion and everyone is out to get theirs

I agree with this but my opinion is a little different.

Timmy was one of the most unselfish players of all time. Asking others to be like him is unfair (not saying you are).

But more importantly, Timmy still "got his". He was the undisputed best player on his team and everything ran through him for years. His coach was pulling his giving games away / resting players shenanigans like he does now. By the time Parker and Manu were at their peaks, Tim had already been the man for so long. As unselfish as he was, he was ready to let them carry more of the load.

Kawhi is a super late bloomer. He has only had one season as "the man". He has a coach that sits everyone just because theyre down by 8 with 10 min to go in the 4th. He constantly yanks him when he's finding a groove in game. He sits players for nationally televised games that MVP candidates like to use to make their case, then pulls all of the above on those games as well.

Kawhi wants to be "the man" but his coach wants him to be year like Tim Duncan was in his 12th year.

Just my opinion.

[ceds]

Grant hill & penny both played through injury in the playoffs instead of sitting out which ruined their careers.

We are taking the opposite approach with kawhi ... it's fustrating as fans but his health is no.1 priority and i'm for shutting him down.

[YGWHI]

You're right, my source isn't close to Kawhi, but he's close to the Spurs.
I already knew it since Kawhi's camp say exactly the opposite.

They find very weird all these rumors since they're working so HARD to Kawhi to be able to play again this season. If this doesn't occur it won't be because they didn't try...

One thing they know is they want the supermax, not just the max.

IDK if the Spurs are generating rumors like a "damage control" if they don't want to give Kawhi the supermax this next summer and want to wait...Like they did with that Buck Harvey article doing it three years ago after Elfus said that Kawhi deserved the max in that summer.

Similar situation.

Jabari Young said Spurs could alienate Kawhi...This doesn't help. I'd say these stupid rumors have to stop. They're just fake and dirty campaing

[TD 21]

Leonard is injured. That's not the same thing as just having a rep for missing games. Assuming a physical would pan out after we've seen little sign of him getting better for all this time is weird. In a scenario where Kawhi is completely healthy, the Spurs likely wouldn't trade him to Boston or anywhere else. And in a scenario where he's faking it to go to LA, I am not sure why Boston or anyone else would feel confident in him. In a final scenario where he's healthyish but doesn't trust team doctors, he's not going to want anything to do with Boston's giving how they messed over Thomas.

Leonard is injured now, but this hypothetical wouldn't take place until the summer and at that point, if he hasn't returned this season, he won't have to play a meaningful game again until mid October.

Confident in his being healthy or re-signing? If it's the former, again, due diligence will obviously have to be done. If it's the latter, the only player who has left a situation as good as Celtics' would be, is Durant and Warriors would be the only team more promising, but Leonard couldn't sign with them even if he wanted to and Irving and him are 3 and 4 years younger than Curry and Durant, which means they should eventually overtake them.


I've said it could be one in the same in every post during this debate. That you bring that up as if it's a new take is silly. Anyway, you keep on missing the point that I'm making then having the gall to condescend about my ignorance. Tatum objectively has more value than, say the 10th-overall pick in the upcoming draft. LAC would trade such a pick for Tatum, and Boston would not. Therefore doing a trade where he's the centerpiece for Kawhi is more valuable than a trade centered around the 10th pick. If the guy at 10 is a player the Spurs like/believe in more than Tatum, then they should go with that, value be damned. If the guy they would have picked is a better player in five years than Tatum, it does them no good to have gone with value in June. The draft isn't an actual crap-shoot like so many folks argue it is. There's real skill involved in scouting and navigating the board. PATFO has been crazy good at outperforming their draft slot. They shouldn't be expect to get a guy as good as Kawhi at 10, but they damned sure could do better than Tatum or Ingram.

If you think you're being misunderstood, be more clear and concise instead of trying to sound like the smartest person in the room at all times.

Tatum wouldn't be the outright centerpiece in this proposal and the odds of a 10th pick having his or Brown's upside is extremely slim and far too risky to turn down 2 high quality assets along with 2 other decent ones, in the hopes of plucking the next Leonard or Antetokounmpo from relative obscurity.



Those picks aren't likely to be good "valuable" as they may be.

These are them:

2019 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 1st round pick to Boston (via Memphis) protected for selections 1-14 in 2019 and 1-14 in 2020; if the L.A. Clippers have not conveyed a 1st round pick to Boston by 2020, then the L.A. Clippers will instead convey their 2022 2nd round pick to Boston [L.A. Clippers-Memphis, 2/18/2016; Boston-Memphis, 6/23/2016]
2019 first round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 1st round pick to Boston protected for selections 1-8 in 2019 and 1-6 in 2020 and unprotected in 2021 [Boston-Memphis-New Orleans, 1/12/2015]

You have a LAC pick that will either be non-lottery or seconds and a Memphis pick that will be late-lottery until 2021 at best. Those are middling assets, not really worth comparing to Tatum and Brown in terms of how much Boston seems to value them.

I was talking about what Celtics would be left with around their core and you go and leave out their most valuable pick.

:lmao You just got done lecturing me about the potential value of a 10th pick, but are now downplaying the significance of a potential 9th, 7th or unprotected pick. Way to be consistent.



I find this pretty indefensible. The Spurs already have a baseline of mediocrity to work with in the form of this Aldridge-led team. You don't trade a star and worry about getting a base hit. You swing for the fences. They can make the playoffs and be decent even if they draft busts with the potential Leonard picks.
You go for whomever you think can get you above the ceiling. And no, I'm not basing value off anything. I'm saying your argument is illogical. If Brown and Tatum are unable to score at a competent NBA level (as Bradley did), then they haven't really proven anything elite yet. Comparing Thomas to them is foolish, given that Irving already replaced him. Brown and Tatum replaced Bradley and Crowder. That shift has apparently led them to an offense so bad that Stevens hasn't been able to save it. Or whatever. It's your argument, not mine. My argument is that Stevens runs a system friendly to player's production and that looking good in Boston isn't a stable sample. I sure am not using it as a foundation to project future production on other teams.

Of course you would because you don't know understand blockbuster trades work. There's almost always some certainty involved for obvious reasons. Recent examples include Hield, LaVine, Dunn, Williams, Beverley, Oladipo, Sabonis, etc. Say what you want about them, but most were already clear rotation players and the others were on track to be.

This wouldn't be a base hit, this would be a high ceiling and floor return. You can't do better for a superstar short of getting a draft pick that becomes one and considering there's less than 10 at a given time, that's damn near impossible.

Brown and Tatum are already scoring at a competent NBA level. Since you love ppg so much, they're at 14 and 13.5, respectively, with .589 and .547 true shooting percentages, which is good and decent efficiency, especially for such young players.



If the Spurs are a Walker trade away from taking down the Warriors, then leaving "to contend" makes little sense. That trade is only going to get more possible as the season draws to a close. The avenues the team has to complete such a deal are much more open factoring in July cap space, including just letting Danny walk, trading Kemba into cap space and trading Gasol for bad salary from Charlotte. However, this thread and any impact that can be drawn from it said nothing about Kawhi leaving for LA because he thinks they're closer to a title. He's apparently keen to be a Laker and to be back home. So I see Boston being a "true contender" with him appealing enough to persuade him if the Spurs being just one player away and able to offer so much more money isn't.

Agreed, but we're operating under the assumption that Leonard wants out. Also, a Walker trade is obviously far from a sure thing, though I've already said it gets more possible around the draft.

Just like George wanted to go back home and is now at least strongly considering otherwise and this is on a lesser team, in a smaller market.

[YGWHI]

My source said Kawhi's Uncle has been in Kawhis' ear all year about going to LA for his next contract and it looks like Kawhi has been buying into it as the season has gone on (and Spurs are pretty pissed about how Robertson is running things for Kawhi).

Like they were with Elfus before? It's funny but the Spurs have been critical of every Kawhi's agent that wants a big pay in a summer.

I remember Harvey being PATFO voice on media and doing damage control for them in 2014.
https://www.expressnews.com/sports/columnists/buck_harvey/article/Agents-ofchange-influenceon-Kawhi-5863985.php


I mentioned Riverside (County) because that's where he's from -- Moreno Valley is inside Riverside County.
Like apples and oranges, you can say both are fruits but they couldn't be more different.

[MaNu4Tres]

Like they were with Elfus before? It's funny but the Spurs have been critical of every Kawhi's agent that wants a big pay in a summer.

I remember Harvey being PATFO voice on media and doing damage control for them in 2014.
https://www.expressnews.com/sports/columnists/buck_harvey/article/Agents-ofchange-influenceon-Kawhi-5863985.php


Like apples and oranges, you can say both are fruits but they couldn't be more different.

If you don't like what I posted, I get it. My intentions weren't to ruin your weekend or to convince you of anything. I simply shared information. You have a right to disagree w/ it and believe whatever you want.

[YGWHI]

If he wanted to push himself out, he would be making more noise about it...

EXACTLY.

His uncle didn't say Kawhi wants to out, he said the opposite. Jabari Young who is close to his camp said Kawhi doesnt want to out. They were very clear about it.

They had opportunities to cast doubts over staying SA/leaving SA/whatever but never did it.

And just a "source" from the other side says this? C'mon.

[YGWHI]

I simply shared information.
Well, my information says the opposite of your data but I don't make a thread to say it.

[MaNu4Tres]

Well, my information says the opposite of your data but I don't make a thread to say it.

I decided to make a thread because my source is pretty legit and has been in the past.

[YGWHI]

I have to give it to you Mo. You called this a few weeks ago...
What he called...? Since the first weeks of season I've been saying here that Kawhi and Spurs medical staff have issues

It's not new that he doesn't trust Spurs doctors that's why he got 2nd opinions and his own staff. But it's not something impossible to fix.

If you want to believe the crazy part about his camp doesn't want Kawhi to play...I have to remember you that Kawhi already played this season. How does that fit into the not-playing narrative?

[YGWHI]

I decided to make a thread because my source is pretty legit and has been in the past.
Kawhi doesn't want to play in LA and his uncle isn't suggesting anything about...

Unlike your sources, he already knows Kawhi and the reasons why he doesn't want to stay in LA for whole seasons.

It's just so convenient for one side spread rumors like "Kawhi wants to leave..Kawhi wants to go to LA...His uncle is shit..." to provoke negative fans reactions "WTF? Kawhi wants to leave?? He doesn't deserve the supermax"

Dirty business.

[YGWHI]

I have a hard time believing he’s holding the team hostage because he wants out. If he was that far removed from the team and has been for months then time isn’t going to change his mind back. I don’t see the Spurs paying him that much money to sit because he misses home either. Not sure of the rules but surely they could ask the league to step in if they’re dead set against trading him.


Can I buy that he doesn't want to play this season? Not really... He could be pissed at the whole world, but you'd think he wouldn't want to give up a year. And if he were, and it was that obvious, Pop and RC would have traded him before the deadline

Common sense.

I keep my faith in ST for people like these guys.

[MaNu4Tres]

Kawhi doesn't want to play in LA and his uncle isn't suggesting anything about...

Unlike your sources, he already knows Kawhi and the reasons why he doesn't want to stay in LA for whole seasons.

It's just so convenient for one side spread rumors like "Kawhi wants to leave..Kawhi wants to go to LA...His uncle is shit..." to provoke negative fans reactions "WTF? Kawhi wants to leave?? He doesn't deserve the supermax"

Dirty business.

Believe whatever you want to believe.

[YGWHI]

So...Kawhi wants to leave because he doesn't like Spurs roster, he wants to play for a contender.

But..Kawhi wants to go to LA, misses LA, he doesnt give a shit about playing for a contender.


All this while Kawhi has a career ending injury...

But at the same time Kawhi is faking it....


Contradiction of liars.



Believe whatever you want to believe.
Don't worry, I do it.

[Ice009]

Kawhi doesn't want to play in LA and his uncle isn't suggesting anything about...

Unlike your sources, he already knows Kawhi and the reasons why he doesn't want to stay in LA for whole seasons.

It's just so convenient for one side spread rumors like "Kawhi wants to leave..Kawhi wants to go to LA...His uncle is shit..." to provoke negative fans reactions "WTF? Kawhi wants to leave?? He doesn't deserve the supermax"

Dirty business.

Thanks for your posts. I hope they're right and I hope he can get back to the court this season and the Spurs give him the Supermax.

So Kawhi also doesn't want to be in LA full-time? I won't ask what those family issues are, but if he were to leave, it wouldn't be for LA, right?

[DPG21920]

So Woj is a liar? If Kawhi doesn’t want out, then why even bother leaking the info to Woj that the relationship is chilly?

[ulosturedge]

Yeah i'm not thinking Kawhi wants out. Atleast not initially. I think he legitimately feels like his leg needs more time to heal. Seems like the Spurs doctors tried to clear him, he gave it a go, didn't like the way his leg responded, and got some second opinions and from that had himself put back on IR. The Spurs probably never operate in this manner and that's why the situation looks odd and creates a volatile atmosphere.

It's either that or this is the greatest CIA pop move ever. So lets pretend to bring him back and say he had a setback so we can sit him longer without threat of action from the NBA. Because sitting your star player for this many games on an injury which typically has a quicker return designation is something the NBA doesn't like to see.

[Ice009]

Speaking of the NBA, are they allowed to look into this injury to ask what is going on? I've never seen a star player sit out for this long with an injury that isn't a tear and doesn't appear to require surgery to fix.

Has this ever happened before?

[spurs10]

So Woj is a liar? If Kawhi doesn’t want out, then why even bother leaking the info to Woj that the relationship is chilly?
I have never heard Woj say this. He is usually pretty knowledgable about these matters. I’ve tried to not buy in to any of this speculion, but lately I have heard nothing very positive. It’s strange for me to think someone who is getting paid $19 million this season would not be thinking of doing his best for the people paying him. He is under contract for this season and next, so he does have a deal to honor. This is really depressing.

[spurs10]

Speaking of the NBA, are they allowed to look into this injury to ask what is going on? I've never seen a star player sit out for this long with an injury that isn't a tear and doesn't appear to require surgery to fix.

Has this ever happened before?
I’m thinking the same thing. There are professional obligations to fulfill. Aren’t there?

[spurs10]

So Woj is a liar? If Kawhi doesn’t want out, then why even bother leaking the info to Woj that the relationship is chilly?
Yep, just read Woj’s January 22nd article. Didn’t see anything since and Buford seemed to say they were perplexed, but working together.

[MaNu4Tres]

Speaking of the NBA, are they allowed to look into this injury to ask what is going on? I've never seen a star player sit out for this long with an injury that isn't a tear and doesn't appear to require surgery to fix.

Has this ever happened before?

Never seen a player so distant from everything -- the media, the team, ect.

[BSfromTX]

Speaking of the NBA, are they allowed to look into this injury to ask what is going on? I've never seen a star player sit out for this long with an injury that isn't a tear and doesn't appear to require surgery to fix.

Has this ever happened before?

i second this... seems like there needs to be a clear reason why he can’t play otherwise it could be viewed as a tank job or hold out to avoid risking injury prior to a Super max deal

[SAGirl]

Speaking of the NBA, are they allowed to look into this injury to ask what is going on? I've never seen a star player sit out for this long with an injury that isn't a tear and doesn't appear to require surgery to fix.

Has this ever happened before?
I have seen it but it’s not good news. Tiago’s mysterious calf injury... different injury but just as mysterious. Lacking a timeline, they consulted a second opinion and specialists, rehabbed and rested him. Eventually retired him. Not good. Hopefully Kiwis thing isn’t like that.

[Ice009]

I have seen it but it’s not good news. Tiago’s mysterious calf injury... different injury but just as mysterious. Lacking a timeline, they consulted a second opinion and specialists, rehabbed and rested him. Eventually retired him. Not good. Hopefully Kiwis thing isn’t like that.

Do you mean when Tiago was in Atlanta? I don't remember anything like that with the Spurs. I didn't follow him at all when he went to Atlanta.

[SAGirl]

Do you mean when Tiago was in Atlanta? I don't remember anything like that with the Spurs. I didn't follow him at all when he went to Atlanta.
Started while he was in SA. His last season in the Spurs he played 36 or so games and was on minutes restrictions. He never had a determined expected date. I remember him at the time visiting specialists in LA while traveling with the team. They thought the calf issue could have been related to a back problem. He went to Atlanta and barely played for them, between hamstring, calf and back injuries l. Ended up having a back surgery. Could never really return to play without pain and thus he’s retired basically.

This is the last interview he gave.
http://hoopshype.com/2017/10/16/catching-up-with-tiago-splitter/
You mentioned earlier that you were not at 100 percent physically. I read that not long ago you were feeling pain even doing very basic things like sitting in your car. Is the pain still there?
TS: It’s not at that level, but there’s some pain that I have to deal with. It’s like normal for me now. Mentally, having all these injuries has been tough because you want to do certain things, but your body doesn’t allow you to do them. You have to adjust and… well, sometimes it’s pretty hard. At the same time, it also makes you stronger and makes you learn new things and makes you see basketball in a different light. You play differently and think about the game in a different manner when you’re playing. Plus, when you have good days, you cherish those moments and learn to put value in them. It’s not easy to always feel that way, [but] feeling some pain is absolutely normal.

[Chinook]

Leonard is injured now, but this hypothetical wouldn't take place until the summer and at that point, if he hasn't returned this season, he won't have to play a meaningful game again until mid October.

You don't get to have this as fiat like you think. Kawhi is hurt (apparently) to a point where the team doctors don't know what's going on or when he's going to be back. Assuming he's healthy for a trade makes no sense, because he should have been healthy already. At this point, it's possible that it never gets better. That legitimately happens with injuries. One of the main sources of "rumor" that started this thread is about just such a thing -- Leonard getting a career-endangering diagnosis. So no, Kawhi has to be healthy first before we start acting like that's the player the team is trading away.


If you think you're being misunderstood, be more clear and concise instead of trying to sound like the smartest person in the room at all times.

I find this hypocritical. You act like you position is self-evident and then complain if others don't hedge their stances enough. No one has said anything about what Boston would offer or even if they would offer, just like no one said anything about the Thunder being willing to trade Harden and Ibaka for Duncan despite you constantly bringing up how the Spurs should just make that trade. So acting as if Tatum and Brown is some objective standard for what Boston should offer or SA should accept is main inertia against a meaningful conversation. You can't just assume who's going to offer what and what PATFO will think is best out of what they'd get. It's just your opinion. I totally get not having to say "I think" or "In my opinion" about everything. It's annoying to do that when folks should be able to tell the difference between facts and beliefs. But what I don't get is the periodic cries of foul when something comes off as me trying to "be the smartest guy in the room". In a case about trading Kawhi, we're all equally in the dark, and any of us who are actually fans are quite concerned.



I was talking about what Celtics would be left with around their core and you go and leave out their most valuable pick.

:lmao You just got done lecturing me about the potential value of a 10th pick, but are now downplaying the significance of a potential 9th, 7th or unprotected pick. Way to be consistent.

I didn't leave out their most valuable pick. The post you replied to specifically mentioned LAL/SAC and said that the other picks they had weren't great. As far as your attempt at finding an inconsistency, Boston damned sure shouldn't think a potential pick in the second half of the lottery is the same as a guy they JUST drafted at third. That's even more so given that Tatum was their first-overall prospect. It's fine for another team to disagree on Tatum's value (Philly and LAL did obviously), but for Boston to do it with their own picks is absurd.


Of course you would because you don't know understand blockbuster trades work. There's almost always some certainty involved for obvious reasons. Recent examples include Hield, LaVine, Dunn, Williams, Beverley, Oladipo, Sabonis, etc. Say what you want about them, but most were already clear rotation players and the others were on track to be.

Hield -- bench player now. Lavine and Dunn -- injured or having just come back (which hurts because Dunn was killing it for my FBB team). Williams and Beverly -- completely necessary salary for Houston to send out. Could not have done the trade without. Sabonis and Vic -- sucked relatively with OKC; no way was Sabonis certain. Those are the absolute downside for the Spurs outside of Dunn and Lavine (and the ninth pick), depending on how they work out. In a way, you're right that in this market, no one is getting traded for perceived value anymore. But at the same time, the closest example of a potential Leonard trade was the George trade, and Sabonis and Oladipo weren't too much different from Harris and two lottery picks (and getting rid of salary). In each or most of those deals, we saw Boston balk at including Tatum/the pick that would become Tatum. He did the same for Kyrie. I don't think he pull the trigger for Kawhi with Hayward coming back. I may not be a huge believer in Tatum, but he has done nothing to dissuade folks that liked him.