Ex CIA boss: Russia Isn’t the Only One Meddling in Elections. We Do It, Too.

[hater]

nytimes:
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/sunday-review/russia-isnt-the-only-one-meddling-in-elections-we-do-it-too.html?referer=https://www.google.com/

Bags of cash delivered to a Rome hotel for favored Italian candidates. Scandalous stories leaked to foreign newspapers to swing an election in Nicaragua. Millions of pamphlets, posters and stickers printed to defeat an incumbent in Serbia.

The long arm of Vladimir Putin? No, just a small sample of the United States’ history of intervention in foreign elections.

Most Americans are understandably shocked by what they view as an unprecedented attack on our political system. But intelligence veterans, and scholars who have studied covert operations, have a different, and quite revealing, view.

“If you ask an intelligence officer, did the Russians break the rules or do something bizarre, the answer is no, not at all,” said Steven L. Hall, who retired in 2015 after 30 years at the C.I.A., where he was the chief of Russian operations. The United States “absolutely” has carried out such election influence operations historically, he said, “and I hope we keep doing it.”

The United States’ departure from democratic ideals sometimes went much further. The C.I.A. helped overthrow elected leaders in Iran and Guatemala in the 1950s and backed violent coups in several other countries in the 1960s. It plotted assassinations and supported brutal anti-Communist governments in Latin America, Africa and Asia.


A Carnegie Mellon scholar, Dov H. Levin, has scoured the historical record for both overt and covert election influence operations. He found 81 by the United States and 36 by the Soviet Union or Russia between 1946 and 2000, though the Russian count is undoubtedly incomplete.

[pgardn]

No historical context whatsoever.
Of course we have done this.
WE have books written about it bozo, WE write them.

Where is the Russian press on this one?
What does RT news got for you?

And this is part of the point. It is illegal for foreign or US citizens to take cash from a dictator in Russia who plans not only attempting to ruin free and fair elections, but also authorizes screwing around with the finances of private companies and government agencies. You get payed by Putin the thug, you go to jail if we can get you.

We have probably reciprocated in some way Putin knows about and we will read about at some future date. Because we have a real press.

[pgardn]

Hater wants to play copy-paste.

We can play.

[Mark Celibate]

No historical context whatsoever.
Of course we have done this.
WE have books written about it bozo, WE write them.

Where is the Russian press on this one?
What does RT news got for you?

And this is part of the point. It is illegal for foreign or US citizens to take cash from a dictator in Russia who plans not only attempting to ruin free and fair elections, but also authorizes screwing around with the finances of private companies and government agencies. You get payed by Putin the thug, you go to jail if we can get you.

We have probably reciprocated in some way Putin knows about and we will read about at some future date. Because we have a real press.
So we can do it, but don’t you dare or we’ll arrest you :lol

and he caps off this gem by claiming we have a free press :lmao

Dude, it’s a few corporations running 90% of the press in this country. Their board of directors all consist of characters from the Rockefeller foundation, trilateral commission, council on foreign relations, Carnegie, tavistock institute, etc. I really can’t believe that people like you actually exist. You had an excuse before the internet and Information Age, now not so much.

[pgardn]

So we can do it, but don’t you dare or we’ll arrest you :lol

and he caps off this gem by claiming we have a free press :lmao

Dude, it’s a few corporations running 90% of the press in this country. Their board of directors all consist of characters from the Rockefeller foundation, trilateral commission, council on foreign relations, Carnegie, tavistock institute, etc. I really can’t believe that people like you actually exist. You had an excuse before the internet and Information Age, now not so much.

Yeah strange thing.

We tell on ourselves dude! That's how we know this dude. Yeah, and because we have done it does not make it right. But it is a very dirty business. Anyways you should know if a foreign government pays you to screw with our elections, hack our financial institutions, or even hide your money in a foreign bank account you can be arrested and jailed.

Its illegal.

Should I have used emoticons for the proper inflection?

Also dude, there are some people that need accurate information. The companies that own press can make it entertaining. But there are some who need accuracy.mNext time you ask for directions remember that Seri probably won't lie to you it's a good thing. Money can be made dude!

[Mark Celibate]

No shit Sherlock i just think it’s funny how you are ok with us doing it but get all hypocritical vice versa. And you have so much unwarranted faith in our media complex.

[Mark Celibate]

Yeah strange thing.

We tell on ourselves dude!
No, They tell you what they want to tell you. A handful of people sit down each week and determine what will and what won’t be covered and what the spin will be. They set the MSM news agenda for the week.

[pgardn]

No shit Sherlock i just think it’s funny how you are ok with us doing it but get all hypocritical vice versa. And you have so much unwarranted faith in our media complex.

Where exactly I said it was ok? I think it's useful we self regulate our misadventures. It's hugely important. We know more about the Vietnam war than any other country. We know the mistakes, the difficulties, the agendas that are still contentious to this day. This is a good thing. We can judge if we continue to make mistakes or flat out lie. It's quite beautiful for all the shit we have pulled. Like we are still in Afghanistan and increased troop levels under Trump. Why? We can see what others say about this and decide for ourselves if it's worthwhile to take into consideration when voting, maybe 2020.


I don't believe everything and I get news from places that usually get backed up by competition. The competition will actually scorch them if they are wrong. Or they might get lucky and be able to retract before they get busted. But if you like the entertainment part go ahead. They all at some point will be wrong. But I need proper info.

[pgardn]

No, They tell you what they want to tell you. A handful of people sit down each week and determine what will and what won’t be covered and what the spin will be. They set the MSM news agenda for the week.

Oh yeah. They withhold the stuff Imwant to know? How do you know this dude? Do you check foreign papers with democracy that allow their papers to criticize US, themselves, and other countries?

How do do you get your information dude? What do you read?

[pgardn]

No, They tell you what they want to tell you. A handful of people sit down each week and determine what will and what won’t be covered and what the spin will be. They set the MSM news agenda for the week.

And who is they?

And how do you know the stuff YOU believe is not from them?
Who is MSM. List them.

[Mark Celibate]

The heads of just 4 companies sit down and set the agenda for 90% of the news dude. Unless your alternate sources are in that 10% then you are having a false sense of confidence. And unless someone else catches wind of it despite the desires of the big media heads to bury it then you’ll never know. And sometimes they’ll run a shtick that takes several months before it falls apart. Just like Russian collusion. They all Allege it, trump is still president and still no proof. They turned over every stone and caught a few affiliates on unrelated things but still no collusion. That’s because top executives sat down with intelligence officials and concocted the whole thing. Washington post and others have been a cia mouthpiece for ages.

[pgardn]

The heads of just 4 companies sit down and set the agenda for 90% of the news dude. Unless your alternate sources are in that 10% then you are having a false sense of confidence. And unless someone else catches wind of it despite the desires of the big media heads to bury it then you’ll never know. And sometimes they’ll run a shtick that takes several months before it falls apart. Just like Russian collusion. They all Allege it, trump is still president and still no proof. They turned over every stone and caught a few affiliates on unrelated things but still no collusion. That’s because top executives sat down with intelligence officials and concocted the whole thing. Washington post and others have been a cia mouthpiece for ages.

Total BS.

Give me your reads.

The WaPo has exposed the CIA numerous times. They have a very contentious relationship as they should, a secretive intelligence agency and a paper trying to make money by watchdogging them and other agencies and governments.

[Mark Celibate]

Actually I just looked it’s 6 corporations now, consolidated down from 50 in 1983


http://www.dailyinfographic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/media-infographic.jpg

[pgardn]

Actually I just looked it’s 6 corporations now, consolidated down from 50 in 1983

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/webkit-fake-url://02e25426-4bc5-42d6-90b3-c620be9bf220/imagejpeg

I got no image.
Im on an iPhone.

Give me your reads?

We have very few communication agencies and they fight tooth and nail for our $.
If these papers are colluding on info, and keeping the majority of important info, give me an article and a source that proves the collusion and why they are hiding it, especially if breaking a story singularly could make the singular group bucks. The press is not the only industry to undergo unions of sorts since the 1980s. It's not good IMO. But better than Russia. And most of Western Europe. We have the most extensive press apparatus in the world, far more boots on the ground than any other country.

Edit:

I got an image now. The WSj has huge competition from NYT, and WaPo. Not to mention zThe Economist in England and others. The Sun? Is this a joke? The Guardian is far, far better. Let me look at that massive picture again. The Australian??? What?

My group:

WSJ, NY Times, WaPo, Politico, The Guardian, Der Spiegel, The Economist, Foreign Affairs. I can continue this list but it gets more specialized and less robust beat reporting.

Yours?

[Mark Celibate]

My sources have absolutely nothing to do with what’s being discussed here. I’m glad you don’t like the consolidation of media, it’s a start.

[pgardn]

My sources have absolutely nothing to do with what’s being discussed here. I’m glad you don’t like the consolidation of media, it’s a start.

So you were actually there?

Ya see, I can't be present at the collusion press meetings. So I actually have to read about it. I showed you my Go tos. But hell, if you are sitting in the room or got interviews from people in the room, I can't match that. I thought you might have found some good info sites.

Pardon me please.
Maybe you could write the interviews with some of the people present, or stuff you have personally witnessed?

[DMX7]

No, They tell you what they want to tell you. A handful of people sit down each week and determine what will and what won’t be covered and what the spin will be. They set the MSM news agenda for the week.

I don't think you understand what a free press is.

[Mark Celibate]

I don't think you understand what a free press is.
If you think thats a free press then you need to lay off the stupid pills

[DMX7]

If you think thats a free press then you need to lay off the stupid pills

In fact, I know you don't understand what a free press is.

[AaronY]

If you think thats a free press then you need to lay off the stupid pills
You sound like a crazy person itt

[ElNono]

The current FCC just revoked prior mandates that prevented more media consolidation in local markets, tbh, if you wanna see less consolidation, we're going the wrong way...

[ElNono]

About the OP, the US has always intervened, tbh... not always with success. The thing is, that always came with being a superpower and world police.

The issue is now Russia allegedly swinging their dick in front of the superpower, that probably has warhawks seething.

[boutons_deux]

"the US has always intervened, tbh... not always with success"

sooner or later, failure follows and USA suffers blowback.

Where has USA ever intervened successfully over the long haul?

Where has USA actually spread "democracy and freedom" (both lacking in USA) to other countries?

Iran, Iraq, Chile, Southeast Asia, Central America are some wonderful disasters that USA and/or the USA's victim countries are still paying horribly for.

"Why Do They Hate Us?"

USA is the shit-spreading shit hole of the planet

[hater]

About the OP, the US has always intervened, tbh... not always with success. The thing is, that always came with being a superpower and world police.

The issue is now Russia allegedly swinging their dick in front of the superpower, that probably has warhawks seething.

When the empire is too busy waging wars and supporting terrorists, these things will happen.

Its ok for empire to be seething but to publicly cry about it everyday is kinda embarrasing. Methinks they are doing it more as a political stunt to disparrage Trump whom they obviously despise and use it as excuse to keep their warmachine going.

Its getting pathetic

[AaronY]

Whoa!

The US has intervened with foreign countries?!?!

True if huge

[hater]

No shit Sherlock i just think it’s funny how you are ok with us doing it but get all hypocritical vice versa. And you have so much unwarranted faith in our media complex.

Its pretty sad actually. And many millions of americans are the same. They still believe cnn, wapo, etc are legit news organizations :lmao

[hater]

Whoa!

The US has intervened with foreign countries?!?!

True if huge

True

And we the first ones to bitch and moan about it when its done to us :lmao

[pgardn]

True

And we the first ones to bitch and moan about it when its done to us :lmao

No historical context whatsoever.
Of course we have done this.
WE have books written about it bozo, WE write them.

Where is the Russian press on this one?
What does RT news got for you?

And this is part of the point. It is illegal for foreign or US citizens to take cash from a dictator in Russia who plans not only attempting to ruin free and fair elections, but also authorizes screwing around with the finances of private companies and government agencies. You get payed by Putin the thug, you go to jail if we can get you.

We have probably reciprocated in some way Putin knows about and we will read about at some future date. Because we have a real press.

We are the first to bitch and moan? You are a fool. What just happened with Putin complaining when his Ukranian puppet was overthrown?

You wanna bot post and paste?
Let us dance.

[pgardn]

Its pretty sad actually. And many millions of americans are the same. They still believe cnn, wapo, etc are legit news organizations :lmao

What do you read?

[pgardn]

About the OP, the US has always intervened, tbh... not always with success. The thing is, that always came with being a superpower and world police.

The issue is now Russia allegedly swinging their dick in front of the superpower, that probably has warhawks seething.

OP and others don't even believe the Russians unleashed their Johnson.

The real contentious part here is Trump conservatives think it delegitimizes their big victory. The liberals think it changed the results. I personally think it did neither. But, the Russians actually organizing Trump rallies... We need to know the extent of interference and reciprocate IMO.

And we can also get some laughs as some of the interefernce was incredibly clumsy:

In a Florida rally

Florida is still a purple state and we need to appoint it red


The Trump campaign manager found the above somewhat strange. But the money was good so onward through the fog.

Other gems like the above to follow. Mueller is gonna let more of this flow. He has a sense of humor.

[AaronY]

True

And we the first ones to bitch and moan about it when its done to us :lmao
Honestly, Putin was just retaliating because Hillary fucked with his elections. Putin is a dictator with sham elections so it was stupid and pointless to try and alter them anyway

[Spurminator]

I still don't understand this line of reasoning. It's like saying we shouldn't be pissed about Zaza Pachulia fucking up Kawhi because Bruce Bowen used to be on our roster. You still have to play defense.

[Spurtacular]

Hater wants to play copy-paste.

We can play.

You don't like that? I can expect you to be calling out RandomGuy in his future OP's then. Thank you.

[Pavlov]

You don't like that? I can expect you to be calling out RandomGuy in his future OP's then. Thank you.Still butthurt about that?

lol

[Spurtacular]

:cry Muh buddy :cry

[Pavlov]

:cry Muh butthurt :cry

[ElNono]

When the empire is too busy waging wars and supporting terrorists, these things will happen.

Its ok for empire to be seething but to publicly cry about it everyday is kinda embarrasing. Methinks they are doing it more as a political stunt to disparrage Trump whom they obviously despise and use it as excuse to keep their warmachine going.

Its getting pathetic

It doesn't help Trump constantly embarrasses himself, tbh, plus he's clearly a puppet when it comes to geopolitics and warfare... not unlike most of his predecessors...

[hater]

“When I was in CIA in the 70s and 80s in Europe, I would say that the CIA and the US government basically were interfering in elections — almost every election that was taking place in Europe. There were legitimate concerns about communists getting in government in places like Italy and France, in Spain and Portugal. But other than that, this was just routine that the US wanted a friendly government of a certain type, and was willing to do certain things to enable that to happen,” he noted.

If we are going to claim that America has the right to interfere behind the scenes in the politics of another country, it is a little hypocritical for America to say ‘Russian intelligence has been interfering in American elections.’ You don’t get to have it both ways: Either no one should be doing this, or you accept that that’s what goes on in the world. — Gene Coyle, CIA veteran and Russia specialist.

[hater]

It doesn't help Trump constantly embarrasses himself, tbh, plus he's clearly a puppet when it comes to geopolitics and warfare... not unlike most of his predecessors...

Puppet of whom?

[hater]

I still don't understand this line of reasoning. It's like saying we shouldn't be pissed about Zaza Pachulia fucking up Kawhi because Bruce Bowen used to be on our roster. You still have to play defense.

Bitching and moaning and threatening nuclear war because of it is not being pissed.

Its being a hypocryticql bitch qbout it

Its like if RC had sued the Warriors and Pop indicted Zaza

[pgardn]

“When I was in CIA in the 70s and 80s in Europe, I would say that the CIA and the US government basically were interfering in elections — almost every election that was taking place in Europe. There were legitimate concerns about communists getting in government in places like Italy and France, in Spain and Portugal. But other than that, this was just routine that the US wanted a friendly government of a certain type, and was willing to do certain things to enable that to happen,” he noted.

If we are going to claim that America has the right to interfere behind the scenes in the politics of another country, it is a little hypocritical for America to say ‘Russian intelligence has been interfering in American elections.’ You don’t get to have it both ways: Either no one should be doing this, or you accept that that’s what goes on in the world. — Gene Coyle, CIA veteran and Russia specialist.

Hater sees I'm present and posts this for th 40th time

No historical context whatsoever.
Of course we have tried to manipulate.
WE have books written about it bozo, WE write them.

Where is the Russian press on this one?
What does RT news got for you?

And this is part of the point. It is illegal for foreign or US citizens to take cash from a dictator in Russia who plans not only attempting to ruin free and fair elections, but also authorizes screwing around with the finances of private companies and government agencies. You get payed by Putin the thug, you go to jail if we can get you.

We have probably reciprocated in some way Putin knows about and we will read about at some future date. Because we have a real press.

The Russian people should vote Putin out... Wait a sec.... elections....
Donald Trump, basically a game show host, gets voted in as president? This could happen in Russia #free elections?
Nope.

[pgardn]

And more about Gene Coyle , hater's hero:

The "reset" campaign was an excellent idea; too bad no one in our Department of State knew how to correctly spell the word in Russian when Secretary Hillary Clinton presented (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/03/06/clinton-reset-button-gift-to-russian-fm-gets-lost-in-translation/?fbid=dv3DutFfNAT) the "button" to the Russian Foreign Minister. However, there is a line between seeking a mutually beneficial relationship and delusional pandering.


The "reset" button that Trump pushed?
Delusional pandering? And you can have it both ways, Russia and the US have proven this.
There ya go, another Hater backfire.
Hilarity...

Ask yourself if an exKGB agent would be allowed to become a professor at a major university in Russia and be allowed to criticize Putin? Coyle is ex CIA and is a very valuable person for a free country. Even though, in hindsight, Coyle has gotten things horribly wrong.

[Spurminator]

Bitching and moaning and threatening nuclear war because of it is not being pissed.

Its being a hypocryticql bitch qbout it

Its like if RC had sued the Warriors and Pop indicted Zaza

No one is threatening nuclear war, though. That's like saying Pop tried to murder Steve Kerr and his family when he criticized Pachulia last year.

[hater]

No one is threatening nuclear war, though. That's like saying Pop tried to murder Steve Kerr and his family when he criticized Pachulia last year.

Oh yeah we are. Sqntions after sanctions. Going after kremlin guys. NATO drills in black sea and our new “nuclear doctrine” where we say we can nuke someone after a cyberattack

Damn hell yes we are threatening war

[RandomGuy]

Still butthurt about that?

lol

I find his schtick in that regard positively bizarre. It's like he thinks that it is some sort of sick burn in his head, like calling someone "applehead" or something that no one else finds meaningful.

It really is weird.

[RandomGuy]

Oh yeah we are. Sqntions after sanctions. Going after kremlin guys. NATO drills in black sea and our new “nuclear doctrine” where we say we can nuke someone after a cyberattack

Damn hell yes we are threatening war

I have been hoping the next time one of their jets buzz our ships, we blow it out of the sky.

[Spurtacular]

I have been hoping the next time one of their jets buzz our ships, we blow it out of the sky.

Neocon.

#StillWithHer

[hater]

I have been hoping the next time one of their jets buzz our ships, we blow it out of the sky.

Yeah ure a neocon. Of course youd hope that