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View Full Version : Republican vote cheating dealt a solid court defeat



RandomGuy
02-20-2018, 01:18 PM
GOP knows it can't win without cheating and devaluing Democratic votes, so the GOP-led Pennsylvania legislature couldn't come up with a compromise map.

State court drew it instead, and is unlikely to be overruled.

Odds of Democratic takeover of Congress this fall, just got better.
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"President Donald Trump on Tuesday encouraged Republicans to fight Pennsylvania's new court-imposed map of congressional districts, issued a day earlier in a move expected to improve Democrats' chances at chipping away at the GOP's U.S. House majority.

Trump tweeted that Republicans should challenge the new map of Pennsylvania's 18 congressional districts all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, if necessary.

The Democratic-majority state Supreme Court met its own deadline Monday to issue the new boundaries after it threw out a 6-year-old GOP-drawn map as unconstitutionally gerrymandered. The Republican-controlled Legislature and Democratic Gov. Tom Wolf did not produce a consensus replacement map in the three weeks allotted by the court.

The new map is to be in effect for the May 15 primary and substantially overhauls a Republican-drawn congressional map widely viewed as among the nation's most gerrymandered.

Congressional map raises Democrats' hopes, legal test ahead
New boundaries will likely usher in changes to Pennsylvania's predominantly Republican delegation, which has provided a crucial pillar of support for GOP control of the U.S. House.

Most significantly, the new map gives Democrats a better shot at winning a couple more seats, particularly in Philadelphia's heavily populated and moderate suburbs. There, Republicans have held seats in bizarrely contorted districts, including one described as "Goofy Kicking Donald Duck."
Republican Rep. Ryan Costello, whose suburban Philadelphia district was narrowly won by Democrat Hillary Clinton in 2016, is in even more dire straits now that his district adds the heavily Democratic city of Reading. "

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-pennsylvania-congressional-map-20180220-story.html

boutons_deux
02-20-2018, 01:26 PM
Pennsylvania Republicans want to impeach Supreme Court justices that killed their gerrymander scheme

When you can’t win the game fairly, replace the referees

https://www.salon.com/2018/02/06/pennsylvania-republicans-want-to-impeach-supreme-court-justices-that-killed-their-gerrymander-scheme/ (https://www.salon.com/2018/02/06/pennsylvania-republicans-want-to-impeach-supreme-court-justices-that-killed-their-gerrymander-scheme/)

baseline bum
02-20-2018, 01:31 PM
Wow

http://www.geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Goofy-Kicking-Donald-Duck.png

RandomGuy
02-20-2018, 01:42 PM
Wow

http://www.geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Goofy-Kicking-Donald-Duck.png

Stacking and packing.

The net effect is massive dilution of Democratic votes. This is why you get states that vote 60% Democratic, but have congressional delegations that are 75% Republican.

When your party doesn't have ideas, or votes, cheat.

RandomGuy
02-20-2018, 01:47 PM
Wow

http://www.geocurrents.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Goofy-Kicking-Donald-Duck.png

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/politics/courts-law/gerrymander

Here is a good way to quantify it, by measuring "wasted" votes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/politics/courts-law/gerrymander/img/states-980.jpg?c=1

Both sides indeed do it, but one side benefits far, far more.

Mark Celibate
02-20-2018, 02:14 PM
When your party doesn't have ideas, or votes, cheat.
Oh man the irony

vy65
02-20-2018, 03:08 PM
Should abolish congressional districts and the electoral college altogether.

Chucho
02-20-2018, 03:12 PM
Should abolish congressional districts and the electoral college altogether.
And replace it with?

spurraider21
02-20-2018, 03:15 PM
And replace it with?
i dont think you can, at least for the house of representatives. in smaller states, it would be feasible, just make it like the senate. each voter can vote for all senators/representatives. as for general election, popular vote. pretty straighforward. your vote shouldn't count for more just because you live in cleveland instead of houston

but as there are states like CA with 50+ representatives, its pretty absurd to have a person vote for 60 officials on one ballot. it would just enable more party-line voting, as nobody is going to be informed on that many decisions. people are somewhat able to identify their representative.

vy65
02-20-2018, 03:28 PM
And replace it with?

Nothing. Why would you need a replacement?

vy65
02-20-2018, 03:29 PM
but as there are states like CA with 50+ representatives, its pretty absurd to have a person vote for 60 officials on one ballot. it would just enable more party-line voting, as nobody is going to be informed on that many decisions. people are somewhat able to identify their representative.

Fair point, but I wonder if that's worse than the status quo's gerrymandering.

Mark Celibate
02-20-2018, 03:47 PM
Nothing. Why would you need a replacement?no voting at all I see, I like where you’re going with this. We don’t need democracy.

Chucho
02-20-2018, 03:59 PM
i dont think you can, at least for the house of representatives. in smaller states, it would be feasible, just make it like the senate. each voter can vote for all senators/representatives. as for general election, popular vote. pretty straighforward. your vote shouldn't count for more just because you live in cleveland instead of houston

but as there are states like CA with 50+ representatives, its pretty absurd to have a person vote for 60 officials on one ballot. it would just enable more party-line voting, as nobody is going to be informed on that many decisions. people are somewhat able to identify their representative.

:tu

RandomGuy
02-20-2018, 04:10 PM
Fair point, but I wonder if that's worse than the status quo's gerrymandering.

It is possible to allow computers to do it. the maps that they come up with tend to be a lot more neutral, with fewer "wasted" votes.

RandomGuy
02-20-2018, 04:17 PM
Oh man the irony

The Democratic party has better policies, and better ideas than the Trump party.

I think that is pretty clear at this point watching shithole states like Kansas and Oklahoma implode.

Pretty much every measure of human well being shows that red states suck. Not sure how much evidence you needs, but it isn't hard to find.

Mark Celibate
02-20-2018, 05:00 PM
The Democratic party has better policies, and better ideas than the Trump party.

I think that is pretty clear at this point watching shithole states like Kansas and Oklahoma implode.

Pretty much every measure of human well being shows that red states suck. Not sure how much evidence you needs, but it isn't hard to find.
Your team is so awesome!

BD24
02-20-2018, 09:36 PM
i dont think you can, at least for the house of representatives. in smaller states, it would be feasible, just make it like the senate. each voter can vote for all senators/representatives. as for general election, popular vote. pretty straighforward. your vote shouldn't count for more just because you live in cleveland instead of houston

but as there are states like CA with 50+ representatives, its pretty absurd to have a person vote for 60 officials on one ballot. it would just enable more party-line voting, as nobody is going to be informed on that many decisions. people are somewhat able to identify their representative.
Agree with this, popular vote wouldn't make sense for the house. Popular vote should be used for the presidential election though, as you said it doesn't make sense that someone in Montanas vote counts more than someones in Texas