Just how wrong were we about Kawhi?

[spursistan]

The dam has broken, it is time to call a spade a spade..


Kawhi is:

either (a) the softest and most cowardly superstar the game has ever seen (it might actually engender empathy if it is a deeply intricate mental issue).

or (b) a most calculating bastard who is having a hand played on his behalf that's all about the future fortune he could rake in..


Duncan set the gold standard for the concept of a franchise player: it is unreachable-- a kind of utopia really..But to see Leonard fall flat on his face at the first hurdle has been quite shocking for me.

No matter how this turns out, I have already lost respect for this dude. He is not who I thought he was.

[SAGirl]

I have inched towards him being similar to Tiago Splitter, potential career ender if he never gets right. Tiago lost like 30 games with a sore calf and was on minutes restrictions. The following season he barely played a game and ended up with something like 19 games played in 2 years b4 retiring. He gave an interview where he mentioned the pain at times affected very simple daily activities like driving a car etc.
I hope that's not Kiwi, but it has crossed my mind more than once.

No one knows of course. Teammates have had team meetings and they also don't know.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Kawhi doesn’t want to be here anymore, I wish him the best elsewhere.

[SpursforSix]

The dam has broken, it is time to call a spade a spade..


Kawhi is:

either (a) the softest and most cowardly superstar the game has ever seen (it might actually engender empathy if it is a deeply intricate mental issue).

or (b) a most calculating bastard who is having a hand played on his behalf that's all about the future fortune he could rake in..



yeah...if those are the only choices, it has to be "a".

http://giant.gfycat.com/PerkyDescriptiveBobwhite.gif

[spursistan]

Kawhi doesn’t want to be here anymore, I wish him the best elsewhere.
I won't..

Pulling the most disgraceful bush league move on the most respected NBA franchise in the last 2 decades would be worthy of the collective "fuck him" following him on on the way out..

[dbreiden83080]

Dead Fucking Wrong!! I just want to watch some classic Spurs and TD at this point. The hell with him. Trade him and rebuild..

[Hoops Czar]

Still can't believe the Spurs traded George Hill for Davis Bertans.

[dbreiden83080]

Kawhi doesn’t want to be here anymore, I wish him the best elsewhere.

I don't give a fuck. And he is not doing this on purpose because it makes zero sense. He is soft. He would be doing this on any team. He is not getting traded and turning into an iron man playing 82 games. SOFT!!

[phxspurfan]

I don't give a fuck. And he is not doing this on purpose because it makes zero sense. He is soft. He would be doing this on any team. He is not getting traded and turning into an iron man playing 82 games. SOFT!!

A player like Kawhi will never be an iron man. He's brittle/China Doll af. Even if we give him Super Max money, he will be as injury prone as Splitter. Book it.

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/kawhi-leonard-player-injuries

Date Description
01/17/2018 Sore Right Quadriceps
01/07/2018 Partial Left Shoulder Tear
12/23/2017 Sore Right Quadriceps
09/30/2017 Sore Right Quadriceps
05/14/2017 Sore Ankle
05/09/2017 Sprained Left Ankle
03/10/2017 Concussion
02/06/2017 Quad Contusion
01/23/2017 Sore Hand
12/28/2016 Illness
03/23/2016 Right Quad Contusion
02/21/2016 Sore Left Calf
12/07/2015 Gastroenteritis
11/14/2015 Upper Respiratory Infection
12/19/2014 Torn Ligament, Right Hand
10/27/2014 Eye Infection
04/14/2014 Sore Hand
01/22/2014 Hand
12/21/2013 Dental Prodecure

[FkLA]

Quiet doesn't always equal classy or humble. There are plenty of quiet pieces of shit out there.

He wants out and is pretty much pulling an Eric Gordon (New Orleans).

[spurs1990]

(b) a most calculating bastard who is having a hand played on his behalf that's all about the future fortune he could rake in..


Of the two choices, for the sake of us as Spurs fans, we probably want this to be true - primarily that's he protecting his supermax deal.

Then at least the team gets a top 5 player who (you would hope..?) would continue to be a beast like he was the last two years.
Sports fans tend to have short memories, so we'd probably be willing to forgive/forget about this in a year or two.

[NASpurs]

This summer is when they’ll offer him the super max and we’ll see if he wants to be here or not right? Well accepting the super max doesn’t technically mean that he wants to be here but either way we’ll know a lot this summer.

:lol I don’t give a shit about the playoffs with all the drama that’s going to happen in the offseason. I need to stock on popcorn. Having two divas on the team and at least one of them is being a workhorse with heart problems.

[apalisoc_9]

Man if i was a 26 year old man, I want to go to LA.

Imagine the things you can eat in LA....Blonde whores, Latina burnettes, Big booty black girls...shit if i can sustain that lifestyle and get proper media recognition.

Why would I stay in San Antonio? Fat mexican and white trash arent exactly appealing.

[spurraider21]

Man if i was a 26 year old man, I want to go to LA.

Imagine the things you can eat in LA....Blonde whores, Latina burnettes, Big booty black girls...shit if i can sustain that lifestyle and get proper media recognition.

Why would I stay in San Antonio? Fat mexican and white trash arent exactly appealing.
only in san antonio can one truly get over himself

[tholdren]

I was always right

[Play Boban]

The dam has broken, it is time to call a spade a spade..


Kawhi is:

either (a) the softest and most cowardly superstar the game has ever seen (it might actually engender empathy if it is a deeply intricate mental issue).

or (b) a most calculating bastard who is having a hand played on his behalf that's all about the future fortune he could rake in..


Duncan set the gold standard for the concept of a franchise player: it is unreachable-- a kind of utopia really..But to see Leonard fall flat on his face at the first hurdle has been quite shocking for me.

No matter how this turns out, I have already lost respect for this dude. He is not who I thought he was.

I wasn't wrong. I've been saying this for years tbh...

[coachmac87]

A player like Kawhi will never be an iron man. He's brittle/China Doll af. Even if we give him Super Max money, he will be as injury prone as Splitter. Book it.

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/kawhi-leonard-player-injuries

Date Description
01/17/2018 Sore Right Quadriceps
01/07/2018 Partial Left Shoulder Tear
12/23/2017 Sore Right Quadriceps
09/30/2017 Sore Right Quadriceps
05/14/2017 Sore Ankle
05/09/2017 Sprained Left Ankle
03/10/2017 Concussion
02/06/2017 Quad Contusion
01/23/2017 Sore Hand
12/28/2016 Illness
03/23/2016 Right Quad Contusion
02/21/2016 Sore Left Calf
12/07/2015 Gastroenteritis
11/14/2015 Upper Respiratory Infection
12/19/2014 Torn Ligament, Right Hand
10/27/2014 Eye Infection
04/14/2014 Sore Hand
01/22/2014 Hand
12/21/2013 Dental Prodecure



Issues with quad started back in 16’?

Maybe that’s why Kawhi is so pissed...he’s been dealing with this for years and it’s been treated poorly by staff?!

[SAGirl]

Issues with quad started back in 16’?

Maybe that’s why Kawhi is so pissed...he’s been dealing with this for years and it’s been treated poorly by staff?!
In one of the podcasts someone posted a while back it was revealed that he has suffered with quad issues since college and he's always had them properly managed. This season his quad took a life of its own apparently.

Everyone assumes Kiwi is pretending and truly I don't. I keep coming back to what if he really is impaired. Tiago said pain after games would sometimes be so intense it interfered with normal daily activities. Kiwi had apparently been doing 4 on 4 and regressed on his rehab routine. I think despite him saying he's doing better than in January he's still not well enough and his issues flare with intense workouts. I honestly don't expect him back this season and it's really an enigma at this point.

[tholdren]

Issues with quad started back in 16’?

Maybe that’s why Kawhi is so pissed...he’s been dealing with this for years and it’s been treated poorly by staff?!

So just say that. All he had to do

[SanAntonioSpurs23]

Not all of us were wrong..... just sayin.

[MVPCues]

yeah...if those are the only choices, it has to be "a".

http://giant.gfycat.com/PerkyDescriptiveBobwhite.gif

I have seen that gif before, but never realized until just now his scratching and biting of the tongue are perfectly timed together.

[coachmac87]

So just say that. All he had to do

It was obviously treated of diagnosed due to report...

But look at the injuries since..80% right quad related and now it’s so bad the pain won’t go away.. “contusion” turned into tendonopathy within a year..

[phxspurfan]

Issues with quad started back in 16’?

Maybe that’s why Kawhi is so pissed...he’s been dealing with this for years and it’s been treated poorly by staff?!

Yes, it's been written about. In 2016 there was the below article about how the Spurs have solved it with strength training. But Kawhi doesn't trust the Spurs, remember... :lol

Devotion to the data: How Kawhi Leonard became a superstar
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/14763202/how-biometrics-turned-kawhi-leonard-star

It was a twist of the knee that helped Leonard fulfill that vision. During his second NBA season in 2012, Leonard was sidelined for 18 games with quadriceps tendinitis near his left knee. That offseason, the Spurs sent him to P3 to assess his vastus medialis, a teardrop-shaped muscle in the quads that powers the knee joint. "They focus on trying to balance out your body," Leonard explains. "You don't train there. I learned more about the body."

When P3's evaluation showed imbalances from his injury -- the particulars of which P3 refused to reveal to ESPN -- Leonard and Shelton devoted that summer to ensuring his quads weren't just strong but symmetrically and multidirectionally strong. "Most players are linear; they can run in a straight line and jump vertically," Shelton says. "But with Kawhi, we focus on perfecting change of direction."


Little did we know, it wasn't his quad he learned about, but about changing direction :stirpot: :stirpot:

[tholdren]

It was obviously treated of diagnosed due to report...

But look at the injuries since..80% right quad related and now it’s so bad the pain won’t go away.. “contusion” turned into tendonopathy within a year..

Again, the easiest and only thing kl had to do was keep everyone informed so they couldnt speculate. Now, for the first time since rodman, spurs have an annoyance

[coachmac87]

In one of the podcasts someone posted a while back it was revealed that he has suffered with quad issues since college and he's always had them properly managed. This season his quad took a life of its own apparently.

Everyone assumes Kiwi is pretending and truly I don't. I keep coming back to what if he really is impaired. Tiago said pain after games would sometimes be so intense it interfered with normal daily activities. Kiwi had apparently been doing 4 on 4 and regressed on his rehab routine. I think despite him saying he's doing better than in January he's still not well enough and his issues flare with intense workouts. I honestly don't expect him back this season and it's really an enigma at this point.


Quad was a serious issue in the offseason..even tho Kawhi has been really odd..for him to feel this way must mean something has led to this with the staff..

The staff easily could’ve made mistakes..shit happens..Boston fired their whole staff due to Isiah Thomas hip injury

[phxspurfan]

Again, the easiest and only thing kl had to do was keep everyone informed so they couldnt speculate. Now, for the first time since rodman, spurs have an annoyance

Stephen Jackson was also annoying. That's part of the reason the Spurs didn't re-sign him after '03.

[tholdren]

Stephen Jackson was also annoying. That's part of the reason the Spurs didn't re-sign him after '03.

Youre right, but he wanted to win.

[coachmac87]

Again, the easiest and only thing kl had to do was keep everyone informed so they couldnt speculate. Now, for the first time since rodman, spurs have an annoyance

What makes you think they weren’t informed? It’s the medical team job to do all of that and test..We don’t know all the details but from what I’m gathering it’s been bothering him for awhile. Probably didn’t want to risk missing significant time during the run mid season.. attacked it during the offseason and Tactics didn’t work

[dbreiden83080]

Issues with quad started back in 16’?

Maybe that’s why Kawhi is so pissed...he’s been dealing with this for years and it’s been treated poorly by staff?!

Tim had a bad knee for like 7 years.. This is pro sports. Pain and injuries are part of the deal. And his injury has been so poorly handled that no doctor from SA to NY has told him to have surgery.

[florige]

So why does he want out? Is he not happy with Pop or something?

[dbreiden83080]

So why does he want out? Is he not happy with Pop or something?

He is not doing this because he wants out. Nobody just refuses to play. He is soft. He could be playing on the Moon and he would be whining about his quad..

[tholdren]

He is not doing this because he wants out. Nobody just refuses to play. He is soft. He could be playing on the Moon and he would be whining about his quad..

Trade his ass

[bic50]

Whine

[313]

Why would he come back and possibly worsen a serious injury just to lose in the 2nd round? we should be tanking

[HarlemHeat37]

Why would he come back and possibly worsen a serious injury just to lose in the 2nd round? we should be tanking

Serious injury?:lol dead..

[BD24]

Man if i was a 26 year old man, I want to go to LA.

Imagine the things you can eat in LA....Blonde whores, Latina burnettes, Big booty black girls...shit if i can sustain that lifestyle and get proper media recognition.

Why would I stay in San Antonio? Fat mexican and white trash arent exactly appealing.
says the 26 year old living in butt fuck Canada :lol

[Ice009]

Quad was a serious issue in the offseason..even tho Kawhi has been really odd..for him to feel this way must mean something has led to this with the staff..

The staff easily could’ve made mistakes..shit happens..Boston fired their whole staff due to Isiah Thomas hip injury

They fired their whole medical staff you mean?

All those people that are saying that he wants out. Why? What are the reasons you guys think he wants out for? Start listing what you think the reasons are he wants out instead of just saying he wants out. I'm curious to see what people think are the reasons.

[florige]

He is not doing this because he wants out. Nobody just refuses to play. He is soft. He could be playing on the Moon and he would be whining about his quad..



So basically he is just milking it. He didn't seem like the type. But this has been the longest injury I can remember. Heck Hayward's foot was almost on the floor in front of him, and the way it looks he may be back before Leonard.

[Clipper Nation]

They fired their whole medical staff you mean?

All those people that are saying that he wants out. Why? What are the reasons you guys think he wants out for? Start listing what you think the reasons are he wants out instead of just saying he wants out. I'm curious to see what people think are the reasons.
1. He wants to be a Clipper.

2. He wants to unfurl a championship banner in the new Inglewood arena.

3. Jerry West wants him.

:downspin:

[offset formation]

1. He wants to be a Clipper.

2. He wants to unfurl a championship banner in the new Inglewood arena.

3. Jerry West wants him.

:downspin:

And other musings from a championship-starved Clipper fan.

[Mikeanaro]

I dont think this is helping him economically, his value is decreasing not the opposite.

[313]

Serious injury?:lol dead..
Kawhi has been plagued with unorthodox injuries his whole career, tbh :wakeup

He also doesn't have a track record of being a diva either. If six months from now we get the whole story and kawhi was really just sitting out because of whatever the hypothesized reason is, then fine. It's all wild speculation at this point though

[phxspurfan]

Tim had a bad knee for like 7 years.. This is pro sports. Pain and injuries are part of the deal. And his injury has been so poorly handled that no doctor from SA to NY has told him to have surgery.

Tim also played an entire year with plantar fasciitis, a condition that makes it painful to even walk. Pretty sure he still averaged 20/10 and led the Spurs to round 2 or 3 of the playoffs too (I think that was 06 when Manu fouled Dirk). And David Robinson played an entire year with a bad back in 02 or something, having to guard Shaq in the playoffs.

Parker played the finals and playoffs in 2013 with a bad leg, and Mills played the entire 2014 playoffs with a torn shoulder

[duncan2k5]

Tim also played an entire year with plantar fasciitis, a condition that makes it painful to even walk. Pretty sure he still averaged 20/10 and led the Spurs to round 2 or 3 of the playoffs too (I think that was 06 when Manu fouled Dirk). And David Robinson played an entire year with a bad back in 02 or something, having to guard Shaq in the playoffs.

Parker played the finals and playoffs in 2013 with a bad leg, and Mills played the entire 2014 playoffs with a torn shoulder

Kawhi played through injuries also... Just like those guys missed playoff games with injuries

[cutewizard]

Kawhi pussy for Irving, just do it RC

[cutewizard]

:bobo

[Chillen]

Here is an idea if Leonard does not want to play because he does not feel comfortable or afraid of reinjuring his quad. Put him on minutes restriction and bring him off the bench, if he doesn't feel comfortable on the court get him out. Win/win.

[cutewizard]

Here is an idea if Leonard does not want to play because he does not feel comfortable or afraid of reinjuring his quad. Put him on minutes restriction and bring him off the bench, if he doesn't feel comfortable on the court get him out. Win/win.gre


agree

[Russo21]

Didn't Charlotte offer Kemba Walker at the trade deadline? Dude just put up 46 points. Would have been nice to have a young explosive point guard on the roster. Should have pulled the trigger on that one. Everything is clearer in hindsight though. Would have loved Kemba in the team and unlike the big 3 I'm just not as attached to Kawhi. Hard to get attached to a robot I suppose.

[BillMc]

Didn't Charlotte offer Kemba Walker at the trade deadline? Dude just put up 46 points. Would have been nice to have a young explosive point guard on the roster. Should have pulled the trigger on that one. Everything is clearer in hindsight though. Would have loved Kemba in the team and unlike the big 3 I'm just not as attached to Kawhi. Hard to get attached to a robot I suppose.

R2D2 more lovable than Kawhi?

[tbdog]

Didn't Charlotte offer Kemba Walker at the trade deadline? Dude just put up 46 points. Would have been nice to have a young explosive point guard on the roster. Should have pulled the trigger on that one. Everything is clearer in hindsight though. Would have loved Kemba in the team and unlike the big 3 I'm just not as attached to Kawhi. Hard to get attached to a robot I suppose.

They were packaging him with Bantum. They will give it another shot in the off season.

[YGWHI]

This troll-tread.

OP has said Kawhi will retire at 26...Better find other sport to watch when Kawhi plays next season.

I wonder what will happen with these few guys hating on him if he stays in SA and plays great...

Would they make a new thread saying how wrong they were about Kawhi :cry :cry..again??? I'll laugh so hard...Poor guys.

[rastaspur]

At this point he is coming across like baron davis during his last season with new orleans.

I remember going to see the spurs play the hornets and baron had been out all year due to injury. But before the game and at halftime hes out there shooting and practicing moves and there didnt serm to be anything wrong with him at all.

[$pursDynasty]

What are Kawhi's reasons for not playing? If he is still hurting then why not just say that. If he wants the medical staff fired, that might be a little issue since they have probably no doubt been there forever and probably have close relationships with Manu and Tony, but if the choice comes down to ticking off a couple of original gangsters or your elite young MVP candidate, Tony and Manu probably have to take that one on the chin. The only real scary issue is Pop. Has Pop wearied of the modern player bs? The same thing reared its head in Miami, where even though LBJ was the best player on the planet his conflicts with Pat Riley were well known. Some have speculated that Pop has directly via his pressers and indirectly by unleashing Tony and Manu has tried to end this to no avail. A Pop vs Kawhi issue is the one thing that I can see ending the relationship with the KingSlayer unless he does just secretly want to go to a big market.

[sammy]

Tim also played an entire year with plantar fasciitis, a condition that makes it painful to even walk. Pretty sure he still averaged 20/10 and led the Spurs to round 2 or 3 of the playoffs too (I think that was 06 when Manu fouled Dirk). And David Robinson played an entire year with a bad back in 02 or something, having to guard Shaq in the playoffs.

Parker played the finals and playoffs in 2013 with a bad leg, and Mills played the entire 2014 playoffs with a torn shoulder

Not to mention Manu playing with a broken elbow.

I have plantar fasciitis and it's like nails in your heels! It hurts like a mother and Timmy playing on them for a year, damn Kawhi is soft! So disappointed in him! I just wish he would make a statement and say he's out for the season and let the team know, this silence crap is getting old!

[acoelho1]

This issue is so bizarre that I can’t even begin to know what’s in Kawhi’s head. All we know is he’s not communicating it to the fans or the Spurs. He’s not really in pain since he was asked that question directly in his last on camera interview and only gave a more confusing response that it’s something different. I’m surprised the media is not on his case more about it given he’s one of the best players in the league. Can you imagine if LeBron or Curry behaving in this way and the media giving them a pass on answering what the hell is wrong with them. Kawhi’s reputation is definitely taking a hit and his lack of respect for the fans and league is upsetting. I guess we just sit and wait but I’ve already given up hope that he returns this season. Maybe he will be ready next season.

[phxspurfan]

Not to mention Manu playing with a broken elbow.

I have plantar fasciitis and it's like nails in your heels! It hurts like a mother and Timmy playing on them for a year, damn Kawhi is soft! So disappointed in him! I just wish he would make a statement and say he's out for the season and let the team know, this silence crap is getting old!

That's the other issue I have with the way HE (Kawhi, not the Spurs) handled this whole thing. You or I can't not go to work for an entire year and just remain "day to day" and keep sending sick leave notices ever day all year. At some point you have to just say "guys, I'm taking a leave of absence for a few months" or whatever. If he just said "guys I'm afraid of getting Grant Hill'd here...this injury feels really bad and I can't play, I'm going to have to sit out the year", that would be cleaner than this day to day for the entire season crap.


Also, will the Spurs sue him after he leaves to get their insurance money back? Serious question, as if they paid his game checks with insurance money, the premiums are probably substantial, maybe totaling over $10M, considering his pay this season is $19M. And if they are just paying his salary, wow.

[SAGirl]

Here is an idea if Leonard does not want to play because he does not feel comfortable or afraid of reinjuring his quad. Put him on minutes restriction and bring him off the bench, if he doesn't feel comfortable on the court get him out. Win/win.
Kiwi has his own medical team and they haven't cleared him. There is nothing you can do about that. So long as he complains of pain, he won't be cleared either... so at this rate, he's simply not going to play this season.

[SAGirl]

They fired their whole medical staff you mean?

All those people that are saying that he wants out. Why? What are the reasons you guys think he wants out for? Start listing what you think the reasons are he wants out instead of just saying he wants out. I'm curious to see what people think are the reasons.
I don't know if Kiwi wants out or not, nor have I been pushing that agenda, but I think at least one of the reasons fans think that he wants to leave is that they question his commitment to the team. There is a group that thinks he could be playing if he pushed through his pain but he doesn't want to. But beyond that, it's the fact he has distanced himself from everybody. Teammates don't see him, he barely spends time with them, he's missed a lot of their games, and hasn't really kept himself involved with the team. In fact teammates had to basically stage "an intervention" just to talk to him and see what is up and whether he will indeed come back or not. That shouldn't be necessary if you are the team's leader.

[Keepin' it real]

Tim also played an entire year with plantar fasciitis, a condition that makes it painful to even walk. Pretty sure he still averaged 20/10 and led the Spurs to round 2 or 3 of the playoffs too (I think that was 06 when Manu fouled Dirk). And David Robinson played an entire year with a bad back in 02 or something, having to guard Shaq in the playoffs.

Parker played the finals and playoffs in 2013 with a bad leg, and Mills played the entire 2014 playoffs with a torn shoulder

Millennials

/ thread

[sasaint]

I don't know if Kiwi wants out or not, nor have I been pushing that agenda, but I think at least one of the reasons fans think that he wants to leave is that they question his commitment to the team. There is a group that thinks he could be playing if he pushed through his pain but he doesn't want to. But beyond that, it's the fact he has distanced himself from everybody. Teammates don't see him, he barely spends time with them, he's missed a lot of their games, and hasn't really kept himself involved with the team. In fact teammates had to basically stage "an intervention" just to talk to him and see what is up and whether he will indeed come back or not. That shouldn't be necessary if you are the team's leader.

In retrospect, it seems obvious that the team leadership thing was totally manufactured, and Kawhi really wanted none of it. I'd say that the "LMA has shown great leadership" line seems just as rehearsed. Does anybody in his heart-of-hearts believe that LMA is a great leader? Nothing I have ever seen or heard makes me believe that. Fool me twice...

[SAGirl]

That's the other issue I have with the way HE (Kawhi, not the Spurs) handled this whole thing. You or I can't not go to work for an entire year and just remain "day to day" and keep sending sick leave notices ever day all year. At some point you have to just say "guys, I'm taking a leave of absence for a few months" or whatever. If he just said "guys I'm afraid of getting Grant Hill'd here...this injury feels really bad and I can't play, I'm going to have to sit out the year", that would be cleaner than this day to day for the entire season crap.


Also, will the Spurs sue him after he leaves to get their insurance money back? Serious question, as if they paid his game checks with insurance money, the premiums are probably substantial, maybe totaling over $10M, considering his pay this season is $19M. And if they are just paying his salary, wow.
It's a big problem that he has been "day to day" the entire year. I frankly wonder about the mystery of his condition. Are a few summer months going to help it? He has basically missed an entire season. He says he's better but apparently not good enough to play.

[sasaint]

This issue is so bizarre that I can’t even begin to know what’s in Kawhi’s head. All we know is he’s not communicating it to the fans or the Spurs. He’s not really in pain since he was asked that question directly in his last on camera interview and only gave a more confusing response that it’s something different. I’m surprised the media is not on his case more about it given he’s one of the best players in the league. Can you imagine if LeBron or Curry behaving in this way and the media giving them a pass on answering what the hell is wrong with them. Kawhi’s reputation is definitely taking a hit and his lack of respect for the fans and league is upsetting. I guess we just sit and wait but I’ve already given up hope that he returns this season. Maybe he will be ready next season.

Yep. It has been a media conspiracy all season. Are they ignoring the Spurs because that's what they do or because they are trying to promote Kawhi's departure?

[SpursforSix]

I have seen that gif before, but never realized until just now his scratching and biting of the tongue are perfectly timed together.

You're right. So weird.

Maybe he's like Rainman.

[Expert]

Not wrong at all. I called it.

[Expert]

If he does this to improve his trade odds and super max, he's going to taint his reputation like Lamar Odom did to his in Dallas. You cannot screw your team over and be heralded as a star unless your name is Kobe.

On the other hand, if he's just playing it close to the vest, he could be back next season ready to go. Hard to say. Dude doesn't seem to give a shit what everyone else thinks.

[pgardn]

Still can't believe the Spurs traded George Hill for Davis Bertans.

And got a championship out of it...

[hater]

The poor bastard cannot even wipe his own ass, much less have someone be wrong about him

[tholdren]

If he does this to improve his trade odds and super max, he's going to taint his reputation like Lamar Odom did to his in Dallas. You cannot screw your team over and be heralded as a star unless your name is Kobe.

On the other hand, if he's just playing it close to the vest, he could be back next season ready to go. Hard to say. Dude doesn't seem to give a shit what everyone else thinks.

Hes not a star. Never won a thing. Less valuable than bowen

[spursfan09]

Is he even on the bench?

[Spurs9]

Kawhi for Mitchell and gobert?

[offset formation]

He's not even at the game. Pathetic. I've turned. The writing appears to be in his complete disinterest.

[tholdren]

Kawhi for Mitchell and gobert?

Yes

[Play Boban]

He's not even at the game. Pathetic. I've turned.
It’s disgusting. I’m not sure I’ll ever watch another Spurs game if he’s ever in uniform again tbh.

[tholdren]

Just goes to show how not needed and overrated "star" players are

[spursistan]

So much respect for everyone who suited up and pulled his weight to get us firmly back in the playoff picture; he can go heal or fuck himself away from the team. Spurs will address his case in the off-season..

[K...]

Kawhi for Mitchell and gobert?

Jazz hang up on that shit

[james evans]

i'm a spurs fan, but the end of the day, it's a new era and some birds aren't meant to be caged. Kawhi just isn't the dude to put up with the bullshit the Spurs have been doing. I personally feel it has nothing to do with an injury(how the fuck did he get injured anyway) but moreso with people in the front office and Kawhi looking around seeing guys in the league WE KNOW he's better than able to stat pad and build up their rep as when he gets 30 and we're up by 20, he doesn't play the rest of the game because Popovich wants to be in control. Thats just my theory. Either way, I hope we get something for him. I aint mad at him. Everyone isn't Duncan, Ginobli, or Robinson willing the give the team a discount for the sake of winning titles. I know I sure as hell wouldn't fuck that. If you're at a job and the boss wants to cut your pay by 25% to build a better company, there isn't a person on this say that wouldn't say, "fuck you".

[Ozballer]

This is all about money now. Insurance, medical teams (which one is right or not), etc. I'm sure the Spurs are doing their due diligence to sue Kawhi's camp if push comes to shove and if the smell of rotten fish proves true. A lot of cashola at stake. Besides, why would a medical team (Spurs) clear a player if he is not fit? Does not make sense.
Who would you trust more, Spurs medical or Kawhi's? C'mon man!
Anyhow, anybody who thinks Kawhi will be an easy fit with his teammates anywhere else is totally deluded. Kawhi got away with his zombie like personality because he had an organisation with mature and ego free players to support him and a full plan behind him. In ANY other team, things would blow up in a flash with the diva style playing profiles in the league. Kawhi cannot lead yet he takes the stardom in full rights on the court. A big dilemma.

[Expert]

i'm a spurs fan, but the end of the day, it's a new era and some birds aren't meant to be caged. Kawhi just isn't the dude to put up with the bullshit the Spurs have been doing. I personally feel it has nothing to do with an injury(how the fuck did he get injured anyway) but moreso with people in the front office and Kawhi looking around seeing guys in the league WE KNOW he's better than able to stat pad and build up their rep as when he gets 30 and we're up by 20, he doesn't play the rest of the game because Popovich wants to be in control. Thats just my theory. Either way, I hope we get something for him. I aint mad at him. Everyone isn't Duncan, Ginobli, or Robinson willing the give the team a discount for the sake of winning titles. I know I sure as hell wouldn't fuck that. If you're at a job and the boss wants to cut your pay by 25% to build a better company, there isn't a person on this say that wouldn't say, "fuck you".

When Pop benched Kawhi and the starters in the opening round last year, pretty sure that forged the relationship going forward with him. Kawhi has come to realize that for all of Pop's well wishes and platitudes, he's a company man and couldn't give 2 shits about the players.

[UZER]

When Pop benched Kawhi and the starters in the opening round last year, pretty sure that forged the relationship going forward with him. Kawhi has come to realize that for all of Pop's well wishes and platitudes, he's a company man and couldn't give 2 shits about the players.

Yeah that really didn’t fit well with Kawhi. For a guy who never says anything, he spoke up about it.

This is one of Pops absolutely tired shticks.

[Expert]

Yeah that really didn’t fit well with Kawhi. For a guy who never says anything, he spoke up about it.

This is one of Pops absolutely tired shticks.
When Pop says "I'm surprised everyday that these guys let me coach them how I coach them", he has to also not be surprised when one doesn't.

[r0drig0lac]

In one of the podcasts someone posted a while back it was revealed that he has suffered with quad issues since college and he's always had them properly managed. This season his quad took a life of its own apparently.

Everyone assumes Kiwi is pretending and truly I don't. I keep coming back to what if he really is impaired. Tiago said pain after games would sometimes be so intense it interfered with normal daily activities. Kiwi had apparently been doing 4 on 4 and regressed on his rehab routine. I think despite him saying he's doing better than in January he's still not well enough and his issues flare with intense workouts. I honestly don't expect him back this season and it's really an enigma at this point.

no way, it is obvious that he is feeling something, the guy was a maniac for playing basketball and suddenly he is satisfied for being a year without playing seeing farces like james harden getting all the glory in the league

[Chomag]

Staying healthy for LA TBH

[south side spur]

Issues with quad started back in 16’?



Maybe that’s why Kawhi is so pissed...he’s been dealing with this for years and it’s been treated poorly by staff?!

This didn’t just start in 2016.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2012/11/16/kawhi-leonard-out-up-to-two-weeks-due-to-tendinitis-in-his-left-knee/

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Knee-to-keep-Leonard-out-of-U-S-camp-4669108.php

Once again the only people that believe this misdiagnosis bullshit have a homoerotic affection towards Leonard. First it was he needs more minutes PATFO are keeping his numbers down now the Kawhite knights are saying they’ve mismanaged his tendinopathy. Don’t fall to the dark side you seem reasonable coachmac.

[cjw]

This is all about money now. Insurance, medical teams (which one is right or not), etc. I'm sure the Spurs are doing their due diligence to sue Kawhi's camp if push comes to shove and if the smell of rotten fish proves true. A lot of cashola at stake. Besides, why would a medical team (Spurs) clear a player if he is not fit? Does not make sense.
Who would you trust more, Spurs medical or Kawhi's? C'mon man!
Anyhow, anybody who thinks Kawhi will be an easy fit with his teammates anywhere else is totally deluded. Kawhi got away with his zombie like personality because he had an organisation with mature and ego free players to support him and a full plan behind him. In ANY other team, things would blow up in a flash with the diva style playing profiles in the league. Kawhi cannot lead yet he takes the stardom in full rights on the court. A big dilemma.

The “all about money” thing may be about making sure he’s 100% right because the worst thing for him to do would be to come back and be hurt again or not be at 100%. That would jeopardize him receiving a super max offer and even chill some interest if that injury lasts through next year and he hits the open market.

He’s worth the max and every team should offer it to him assuming he’s healthy. But we’re 15 months away from all teams being able to offer it and a lot can happen between now and then. If he truly wants to lock up the money, staying on the sideline and forcing the Spurs to make a decision completely in the dark might be his best play.

[spursistan]

Ok, this dude might have actually quit on the team..Like not even bothering to attend a home game of this magnitude?

[$pursDynasty]

But but it hurts. Way too much to sit on the bench. Man even if he wants out this is such a bad look, that I am not sure he will ever shake.

[KDKSpurs24]

Ok, this dude might have actually quit on the team..Like not even bothering to attend a home game of this magnitude?
I’m just actually hoping that he is in some sort of rest stage for his quad. Like having to stay off of it completely or something. But if it’s not that then you may be right.

[MaNu4Tres]

Biggest game of the year and he elects to stay home instead of being there with the team.

Pretty pathetic.

[KDKSpurs24]

I just really hate the fact that if this guy were to come back and dominate for us, most of you will just cheer him on and act like y’all never said anything bad. I guarantee it. That’s ridiculous but I guess that’s just how the people in this world work.

[ElNono]

Biggest game of the year and he elects to stay home instead of being there with the team.

Pretty pathetic.

to be fair, the Spurs seem to the "biggest game of the year" every 2 days, tbh

[Hoops Czar]

Biggest game of the year and he elects to stay home instead of being there with the team.

Pretty pathetic.

Like being at the game and faking it is less pathetic than just staying home. Why is this still a story?

[dbreiden83080]

I just really hate the fact that if this guy were to come back and dominate for us, most of you will just cheer him on and act like y’all never said anything bad. I guarantee it. That’s ridiculous but I guess that’s just how the people in this world work.

Well he is not coming back this season. At this point he probably just wont say shit and the team will have to officially announce it’s all over. Next season good Lord he has a lot to prove. I don’t want to hear about Max money at all. Get your ass back on the court and play.

[SAGirl]

I just really hate the fact that if this guy were to come back and dominate for us, most of you will just cheer him on and act like y’all never said anything bad. I guarantee it. That’s ridiculous but I guess that’s just how the people in this world work.
It’s what have you done for me lately world?
Actually fans have stood by him through thick and thin this season. Only Chinook has mildly criticized him and spursistan and a few others very recently and it’s really egregious stuff.

I am perplexed. Long ago I chose to believe the official version. He’s injured but even David Robinson is calling him out for his lack of leadership... video was posted by BillMc somewhere

[Capt Bringdown]

I just really hate the fact that if this guy were to come back and dominate for us, most of you will just cheer him on and act like y’all never said anything bad. I guarantee it. That’s ridiculous but I guess that’s just how the people in this world work.

Wow, that's deep man.

[SAGirl]

Well he is not coming back this season. At this point he probably just wont say shit and the team will have to officially announce it’s all over. Next season good Lord he has a lot to prove. I don’t want to hear about Max money at all. Get your ass back on the court and play.
I think you are right in your first point: not showing up at home games that are so important for seeding and even stay in the playoffs is more a sign that he’s not playing again this season. He’s not mentally invested in this team.

[Keepin' it real]

Tsk tsk, Kenwi.

[baseline bum]

Well he is not coming back this season. At this point he probably just wont say shit and the team will have to officially announce it’s all over. Next season good Lord he has a lot to prove. I don’t want to hear about Max money at all. Get your ass back on the court and play.

He is costing himself a lot of money then since the Spurs can't offer him supermax in summer 2019 unless he wins MVP or something next season.

[cd98]

Is it a coincidence that Kawhi hasn’t attended a home game since the meeting?

[baseline bum]

Is it a coincidence that Kawhi hasn’t attended a home game since the meeting?

God he wasn't there again?

[Russ]

I just got back from the game and Kawhi missed a helluva show.

The amount of contempt that he shows this organization and its fans is palpable.

[cd98]

God he wasn't there again?

No. And he wasn’t at the Jazz game. Radio silent for a guy that people think could be back any game.

[baseline bum]

I just got back from the game and Kawhi missed a helluva show.

The amount of contempt that he shows this organization and its fans is palpable.

Fuck this guy if he isn't even going to Spurs home games any more.

[$pursDynasty]

Is it a coincidence that Kawhi hasn’t attended a home game since the meeting?
Man even if the meeting pissed you off, how big of a puss must you be to scare you away? Does he have any friends on the team he wants to support . How could you trust a teammate that thin skinned, so univested in the fate of the team, so unwilling to push through an injury?

[Keepin' it real]

His teammates hurt his feelings with that team meeting. Don't forget Kenwi is a millennial a.k.a. snowflake. He's likely cowering in a safe space during games.

[MaNu4Tres]

Not sure how his teammates can respect him and his actions.

Sure they can respect his injury and his health, but his actions regarding him being so disinterested has to weigh on the team.

[dbreiden83080]

He is costing himself a lot of money then since the Spurs can't offer him supermax in summer 2019 unless he wins MVP or something next season.

He made $19 million this season to appear in less than 10 games and in spite of the fact that he was cleared to play numerous times by team doctors, refused to play. As far as I’m concerned he owes the Spurs a $19 million refund.

[dbreiden83080]

Not sure how his teammates can respect him and his actions.

Sure they can respect his injury and his health, but his actions regarding him being so disinterested has to weigh on the team.

They don’t and they can’t. Tim Duncan was quiet especially early on in his career, but he was always all about the team. He would do anything for the team. Sacrifice parts of his own game, play with numerous injuries, step up in the locker room, whatever needed to be done he was going to do it. Leonard. He seems to be all about himself honestly.

[baseline bum]

No. And he wasn’t at the Jazz game. Radio silent for a guy that people think could be back any game.

Maybe the Spurs can pull something like Leonard for Cleveland's Brooklyn pick, Nance, Korver, and Clarkson if they're lucky. :vomit:

[sasaint]

Is it a coincidence that Kawhi hasn’t attended a home game since the meeting?

I think it is possible that the team invited him to stay away.

[spursistan]

Fuck this guy if he isn't even going to Spurs home games any more.
Where have you been? :lol..

It is like he doesn't even pretend anything to the contrary: "I'm done with this organization."

Obviously PATFO got all the facts and have a better pulse on the situation that is not reflected in their canned media answers, but i have a sneaky feeling he will get traded this summer..

A combination of factors (health prospects and attitude) could seal his fate..

IF he is worried about the Supermax, how the fuck doesn't he think the Spurs would give it to him on good faith? Just keep your word like a man and suit up even if it is for just another token 10 games.. Weren't we told he looked good in practice?

[baseline bum]

Where have you been? :lol..


All this crap has cast a black cloud over this season and I can't enjoy watching this team at all because of it, so I don't watch most Spurs games. Even the 20 win seasons were much more fun to watch than this one.

[offset formation]

Man even if the meeting pissed you off, how big of a puss must you be to scare you away? Does he have any friends on the team he wants to support . How could you trust a teammate that thin skinned, so univested in the fate of the team, so unwilling to push through an injury?

To me, this is why I've shifted into the camp that he's gone. Forget the injury, why isn't he at least on the bench cheering on his team in the heat of a playoff run? The team that drafted him and helped make him into a top 5 player in the league. It just seems selfish, from the outside.

Now I'm perfectly willing to concede that perhaps there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for his absences...an illness, a family problem, training in NY with his outside doctors, getting treatment. But it's just noteworthy that he went Kawhi is Missing after the team meeting became public. Now throw in he's been distant and uncommunicative and you can at minimum draw some depressing guesses as to where he's at mentally.

[spursistan]

979553876167737345

[MaNu4Tres]

979553876167737345

LA BOUND

Thank Uncle Dennis. Been telling you guys for months..

[daslicer]

To me, this is why I've shifted into the camp that he's gone. Forget the injury, why isn't he at least on the bench cheering on his team in the heat of a playoff run? The team that drafted him and helped make him into a top 5 player in the league. It just seems selfish, from the outside.

Now I'm perfectly willing to concede that perhaps there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for his absences...an illness, a family problem, training in NY with his outside doctors, getting treatment. But it's just noteworthy that he went Kawhi is Missing after the team meeting became public. Now throw in he's been distant and uncommunicative and you can at minimum draw some depressing guesses as to where he's at mentally.

I have heard from Stephen A and some of these other talking heads say that when his uncle became his agent this summers that's when tensions between him and spurs started. I'm reading in between the lines and assuming his uncle mindfucked him which shows he's a weak person mentally and that his uncle wants him out of SA.

[HarlemHeat37]

I just really hate the fact that if this guy were to come back and dominate for us, most of you will just cheer him on and act like y’all never said anything bad. I guarantee it. That’s ridiculous but I guess that’s just how the people in this world work.

:lol this is a Spurs forum, not a Kawhi forum..

Most of us cheer for the Spurs and the success of the team, rather than an individual player(obviously there are player fans here, but most are fans of the team itself)..we don't know the players personally and they don't give a fuck about us either..

Being a sports fan is being selfish, sports fans want their feel-good..read a game thread, posters are wishing death on niggas if they miss 3 shots in a row, but praising them if they make one in clutch time, that's sports fandom..

[sasaint]

This is all about money now. Insurance, medical teams (which one is right or not), etc. I'm sure the Spurs are doing their due diligence to sue Kawhi's camp if push comes to shove and if the smell of rotten fish proves true. A lot of cashola at stake. Besides, why would a medical team (Spurs) clear a player if he is not fit? Does not make sense.
Who would you trust more, Spurs medical or Kawhi's? C'mon man!
Anyhow, anybody who thinks Kawhi will be an easy fit with his teammates anywhere else is totally deluded. Kawhi got away with his zombie like personality because he had an organisation with mature and ego free players to support him and a full plan behind him. In ANY other team, things would blow up in a flash with the diva style playing profiles in the league. Kawhi cannot lead yet he takes the stardom in full rights on the court. A big dilemma.

And he had an organization behind him that obviously has run interference for him with the press. I doubt many teams will permit their star to hermetically seal himself in his own isolation bubble.

[spursistan]

LA BOUND

Thank Uncle Dennis. Been telling you guys for months..
He will get traded to some basketball backwater (Magic,Hawks ,Suns) before he gets that wish assuming SA are adequately compensated.

Even this franchise would throw their class act out of the window if they realize they have been subject to the biggest bush league move done by a star player against his team in league history.

[baseline bum]

I just really hate the fact that if this guy were to come back and dominate for us, most of you will just cheer him on and act like y’all never said anything bad. I guarantee it. That’s ridiculous but I guess that’s just how the people in this world work.

Of course I would. It would mean I was wrong and I'd rather be wrong than see the Spurs lose a player they probably won't be lucky enough to replace through the draft for 10-20 years.

[Chinook]

My guess is the Spurs are already gauging interest in him and will know where they stand by the draft. There's an outside chance that Kawhi is dealt as soon as SA and their partner are eliminated from the playoffs. But it would make more sense to wait until the draft to get the best and clearest offer. If Charlotte keeps losing, perhaps they can workout a deal for Kemba and their first. Something like that is the only deal I could see happening in April or May.

[baseline bum]

My guess is the Spurs are already gauging interest in him and will know where they stand by the draft. There's an outside chance that Kawhi is dealt as soon as SA and their partner are eliminated from the playoffs. But it would make more sense to wait until the draft to get the best and clearest offer. If Charlotte keeps losing, perhaps they can workout a deal for Kemba and their first. Something like that is the only deal I could see happening in April or May.

I want a Philly style rebuild if Kawhi is gone. Dump Leonard and Aldridge for picks and tank for three years, hoping RC can pick the right guys. If they trade for Walker dump him for a pick too.

[sasaint]

I want a Philly style rebuild if Kawhi is gone. Dump Leonard and Aldridge for picks and tank for three years, hoping RC can pick the right guys. If they trade for Walker dump him for a pick too.

No. Not with Pop and RC still at the helm.

[Chinook]

I want a Philly style rebuild if Kawhi is gone. Dump Leonard and Aldridge for picks and tank for three years, hoping RC can pick the right guys. If they trade for Walker dump him for a pick too.

Wouldn't even consider it. A lot of folks are having a hard time rooting for the team when they are still solidly in the playoffs. I honestly think most folks wanting them to tank legit don't appreciate what that would entail. I'd much prefer them being a cleaner version of this year's team and taking shots between 15 and 22 to find another impact player. I find it absurd to write off the team's ability to do that or to attract the necessary free agents to take this roster to the next level.

[baseline bum]

No. Not with Pop and RC still at the helm.

Aldridge is going to be 33 in three months. No way you can rebuild around him and no good reason to be a six seed for a couple of years and then get stuck with the nasty rebuild anyways after instead of trying to gain some assets that will be useful long term. This team has no young talent whatsoever to build on right now assuming Leonard is out. Murray looks like he'll become a slightly below average starter and he is far and away this team's second best young talent behind Leonard.

[TimDunkem]

Celtics rebuilt on the fly. The Spurs can too so long as they move on from this "loyalty and culture" bs. Move the bums, let the mummies ride into the sunset, try to grab some picks, and hope a decent FA signs.

[baseline bum]

Wouldn't even consider it. A lot of folks are having a hard time rooting for the team when they are still solidly in the playoffs. I honestly think most folks wanting them to tank legit don't appreciate what that would entail. I'd much prefer them being a cleaner version of this year's team and taking shots between 15 and 22 to find another impact player. I find it absurd to write off the team's ability to do that or to attract the necessary free agents to take this roster to the next level.

It would be a horrible few years, but the Spurs best competitive advantage right now is RC's eye for talent in the draft. This team has minimal young talent without Leonard, it's all depreciating assets and this is as good as it's going to get unless you think they're pulling another Aldridge drafting at around #20. You think the Spurs are landing any good free agents when the Spurs way is considered dead around the league?

[Spurs9]

I don’t see him playing another game as a spur tbh

[baseline bum]

Celtics rebuilt on the fly. The Spurs can too so long as they move on from this "loyalty and culture" bs. Move the bums, let the mummies ride into the sunset, try to grab some picks, and hope a decent FA signs.

The Celtics rebuilt on the fly because they found some idiot in Brooklyn to trade them a boatload of picks for Garnett and Pierce. I would love the Spurs to do the same with Aldridge this summer.

[TimDunkem]

The Celtics rebuilt on the fly because they found some idiot in Brooklyn to trade them a boatload of picks for Garnett. I would love the Spurs to do the same with Aldridge this summer.
The problem is that the Spurs need to actually try. I still believe that they're going to try to "run this back" while remaining "loyal" to their bums/mummies unless Kawhi really wants out.

Even then, I still see them keeping the bums/mummies around no matter what.

[jbspurs]

Was Kawhi on/behind bench earlier? I haven't seen him join the team after their players meeting last week.

[TimDunkem]

Was Kawhi on/behind bench earlier? I haven't seen him join the team after their players meeting last week.
He was a no show yet again.

[Chinook]

It would be a horrible few years,

In your mind, it would be a horrible 10-20 years. That's longer than a lot of us are even going to be alive.


this is as good as it's going to get unless you think they're pulling another Aldridge drafting at around #20

I think with the 11th- and 22nd-overall selections, the team could get an impact player. Aldridge-good, I don't know. But I damned sure thing they could get someone like Mitchell or Miles Turner. In this draft in particular, there is a good chance a very good player falls into the second-half of the lotto, because the first half is almost set in stone. I don't necessarily think they'll get the next RoY, but a long-term top-15 guy at his position seems doable. Hell, they could get another with their second pick, or they could combine them to move higher.


You think the Spurs are landing any good free agents when the Spurs way is considered dead around the league?

I doubt Kawhi is the determining factor here. He clearly wasn't doing much as a draw, so being in a similar situation that LMA was in 2015 with LMA passing the torch like Duncan was supposed to do with him. Walker and Aldridge are a solid foundation.

[Chinook]

The problem is that the Spurs need to actually try. I still believe that they're going to try to "run this back" while remaining "loyal" to their bums/mummies unless Kawhi really wants out.

Even then, I still see them keeping the bums/mummies around no matter what.

I have to believe the team was trying to trade Mills during the deadline. Maybe Pop legit thought Bradley or Beli were upgrades over Green, but it seems more like he was looking to dump Patty's deal. It makes even more sense if you look at his new rotations. Marco off the bench with Tony and Manu with Green at the starting two would actually be a decent perimeter rotation. With Tony moving down this early, I think Pop no longer has Mills as a lock for the roster. Sure, he can sort of pair with Murray, but it's the easiest spot to upgrade.

As far as Pau, I think Pop still wants him. It may well be easier to trade Gasol's semi-expiring than Patty's deal, though. A single first in this new market may get it done. I am not sure they'd pay that, but if we hear them lining up for meetings with free agents, then it would at least suggest they are willing to.

[jbspurs]

He was a no show yet again.

I think Spurs are done with Kawhi and ready to move on. I think Spurs will trade him this coming off season. I hope we get a young, full of potential player in return. Ingram and sweetener will be good for Spurs.

[bklynspursfan]

Celtics rebuilt on the fly. The Spurs can too so long as they move on from this "loyalty and culture" bs. Move the bums, let the mummies ride into the sunset, try to grab some picks, and hope a decent FA signs.

One could argue the Spurs did rebuild on the fly, towards the end of the Timmy years.

[TimDunkem]

I have to believe the team was trying to trade Mills during the deadline. Maybe Pop legit thought Bradley or Beli were upgrades over Green, but it seems more like he was looking to dump Patty's deal. It makes even more sense if you look at his new rotations. Marco off the bench with Tony and Manu with Green at the starting two would actually be a decent perimeter rotation. With Tony moving down this early, I think Pop no longer has Mills as a lock for the roster. Sure, he can sort of pair with Murray, but it's the easiest spot to upgrade.

As far as Pau, I think Pop still wants him. It may well be easier to trade Gasol's semi-expiring than Patty's deal, though. A single first in this new market may get it done. I am not sure they'd pay that, but if we hear them lining up for meetings with free agents, then it would at least suggest they are willing to.

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum here. I think they were listening, but have my doubts about how serious they were (although I do think they were trying to move Danny considering that rumor pops up every year).

I'm hopeful you're right though, and hope they go even further and move on from not just one, but BOTH Pau and Mills.

[TimDunkem]

One could argue the Spurs did rebuild on the fly, towards the end of the Timmy years.
They need to do it again.

[SAGirl]

Spurs aren’t going to tank intentionally. It may happen as a result of injuries and one too many bad contracts given, but not intentionally.

[BillMc]

If Spurs trade Kawhi he becomes ineligible for the supermax, correct?

[daslicer]

If Spurs trade Kawhi he becomes ineligible for the supermax, correct?

According to this article about Demarcus Cousin losing his supers max after the Kings traded him the answer would be yes. Players are only eligible for the supermax by the team that drafts them and the only circumstance that changes it is if they are traded during their rookie contract.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/demarcus-cousins-will-miss-out-on-close-to-30-million-due-to-kings-pelicans-trade/

[BillMc]

According to this article about Demarcus Cousin losing his supers max after the Kings traded him the answer would be yes. Players are only eligible for the supermax by the team that drafts them and the only circumstance that changes it is if they are traded during their rookie contract.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/demarcus-cousins-will-miss-out-on-close-to-30-million-due-to-kings-pelicans-trade/

Cheers man. Many thanks. :toast

Then if this is a gambit by Kawhi and his uncle as some assert then its a risky one. Kawhi will lose a ton of money if they trade him before offering the supermax.

I wonder if there is a chance that the Spurs have said in the past they can't afford the supermax, both literally in terms of cash flow, but also in terms of manuverability under the cap. And, if Kawhi knows he won't be offered the supermax, he wants out or feels less motivation to fight through injury. OBVIOUSLY pure speculation on my part. The truth of what is actually going on will all come out eventually.

[BillMc]

979553876167737345

No matter what your views DA's report makes it sound like the injury itself is not the key component in his absence. :depressed

[daslicer]

Cheers man. Many thanks. :toast

Then if this is a gambit by Kawhi and his uncle as some assert then its a risky one. Kawhi will lose a ton of money if they trade him before offering the supermax.

I wonder if there is a chance that the Spurs have said in the past they can't afford the supermax, both literally in terms of cash flow, but also in terms of manuverability under the cap. And, if Kawhi knows he won't be offered the supermax, he wants out or feels less motivation to fight through injury. OBVIOUSLY pure speculation on my part. The truth of what is actually going on will all come out eventually.

Here is my theory about this I feel that Kawhi's uncle believes even if Kawhi misses out on the supermax that they can recover the financial loss through endorsements in a big market like LA. For example look at how his uncle rejected team Jordan's shoe deal and asked for a larger deal. I think the uncle believes that if Kawhi plays in LA that he could get a James Harden like Adidas shoe deal. Unfortunately I think Kawhi will come out on top in this situation. Even if the spurs trade him to a shitty team he can leave after 1 year and sign with the Lakers during free agency.

[BillMc]

Here is my theory about this I feel that Kawhi's uncle believes even if Kawhi misses out on the supermax that they can recover the financial loss through endorsements in a big market like LA. For example look at how his uncle rejected team Jordan's shoe deal and asked for a larger deal. I think the uncle believes that if Kawhi plays in LA that he could get a James Harden like Adidas shoe deal. Unfortunately I think Kawhi will come out on top in this situation. Even if the spurs trade him to a shitty team he can leave after 1 year and sign with the Lakers during free agency.

That's a good theory in the big picture. You may be right. But it still doesn't quite explain why he'd sit out this whole season, unless its is to deliberately make the Spurs so exasperated they'll trade him. But, if that was your goal, why not simply demand a trade?

[daslicer]

That's a good theory in the big picture. You may be right. But it still doesn't quite explain why he'd sit out this whole season, unless its is to deliberately make the Spurs so exasperated they'll trade him. But, if that was your goal, why not simply demand a trade?

I think why they didn't demand a trade last summer was because Kawhi's reputation would take a huge hit by the media. Could you imagine how many people would be calling him out in the media for wanting to leave the Spurs after the recent success he has with them. He would take a much bigger hit than Durant or Kyrie did when they left their teams. I don't think Kawhi could take the type of scrutiny from the media that Durant has taken. By having Kawhi sit out for a year and saying the spurs mishandled his injury makes Kawhi end up looking like the good guy while the spurs are painted as the bad guy by the media. This erases any media scrutiny Kawhi would get if he gets traded. Look at what's happening right now with the spurs reputation being trashed by the media while they are portraying Kawhi as this innocent victim.

[BillMc]

I think why they didn't demand a trade last summer was because Kawhi's reputation would take a huge hit by the media. Could you imagine how many people would be calling him out in the media for wanting to leave the Spurs after the recent success he has with them. He would take a much bigger hit than Durant or Kyrie did when they left their teams. I don't think Kawhi could take the type of scrutiny from the media that Durant has taken. By having Kawhi sit out for a year and saying the spurs mishandled his injury makes Kawhi end up looking like the good guy while the spurs are painted as the bad guy by the media. This erases any media scrutiny Kawhi would get if he gets traded Look at what's happening right now with the spurs reputation being trashed by the media while they are portraying Kawhi as this innocent victim.

This is all true. Pop, Manu and Tony have all taken hits. And for the most part ex-playes seems to support KL. Look at this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcKbYcyflIE

Still, if he is really sitting out when you can go....hard to make that guy the leader of the team...

[daslicer]

This is all true. Pop, Manu and Tony have all taken hits. And for the most part ex-playes seems to support KL. Look at this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcKbYcyflIE

Still, if he is really sitting out when you can go....hard to make that guy the leader of the team...

Yes I saw this segment tonight and I have seen other segments where all these ex-players are Pro-Kawhi. All these guys are black so it's basically tribalism at work here when it comes to them supporting Kawhi. You also have to factor in these media guys all want to be Kawhi's insider. It's like they are auditioning for a job. I saw Jalen Rose get into a heated argument with Jacoby a week or two ago about Kawhi trying to get a big shoe deal. Jacoby pretty much trashed Kawhi and said he doesn't deserve a big shoe deal since he lacks charisma and doesn't have the big personality to sell shoes like other superstars. Jalen got angry and started getting super defensive of Kawhi saying he deserved a big deal. The reason Jalen got upset is because he's the one who has claimed to have inside sources that tell him that Kawhi most likely will not be a spur again. Safe to say that inside source is Kawhi's uncle and Jalen is one of the many media guys auditioning to be Kawhi's insider.

Anyways Pop,RC and management got blindsided by Kawhi's uncle. Kawhi's uncle has gone to war with the Spurs and Pop didn't realize it until it was too late. Pretty embarrassing for Pop since he was a former CIA guy to be out smarted by an amateur like Kawhi's uncle. Spurs have already gotten beaten pretty badly in this war. Spurs need to fire shots back at Kawhi through the media and leak out all the dirt on him. The damage Kawhi has done to them can't be undone but they need to prevent further damage by Kawhi's camp and do some damage to Kawhi's reputation.

[Ice009]

To me, this is why I've shifted into the camp that he's gone. Forget the injury, why isn't he at least on the bench cheering on his team in the heat of a playoff run? The team that drafted him and helped make him into a top 5 player in the league. It just seems selfish, from the outside.

Now I'm perfectly willing to concede that perhaps there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for his absences...an illness, a family problem, training in NY with his outside doctors, getting treatment. But it's just noteworthy that he went Kawhi is Missing after the team meeting became public. Now throw in he's been distant and uncommunicative and you can at minimum draw some depressing guesses as to where he's at mentally.

Didn't he attend one game after the meeting?


My guess is the Spurs are already gauging interest in him and will know where they stand by the draft. There's an outside chance that Kawhi is dealt as soon as SA and their partner are eliminated from the playoffs. But it would make more sense to wait until the draft to get the best and clearest offer. If Charlotte keeps losing, perhaps they can workout a deal for Kemba and their first. Something like that is the only deal I could see happening in April or May.

Can you do trades when the season is still going on? What are the rules? I didn't think you could until after the playoffs are over, but now that I think about it, I think I've seen trades during the playoffs before. If that is possible, is it only teams that have been eliminated from the playoffs that are able to make trades?

[SAGirl]

No matter what your views DA's report makes it sound like the injury itself is not the key component in his absence. :depressed
DA is not some click bait journalist. David Robinson in that video you posted acknowledged something else besides the injury is going on, he said “yea I think there’s some validity to some of that stuff that’s been rumored but every team goes through stuff”. He then called out Kawhi for lack of leadership.

This is like the Lamarcus rumors last season. There’s was definitely something going on. Woj may have embellished something or not.

[Keepin' it real]

B-b-but it's tendinopathy. It's a mysterious injury. Kawhi would never fake it. Anyone who thinks so is an idiot! -- spurstalk

[baseline bum]

In your mind, it would be a horrible 10-20 years. That's longer than a lot of us are even going to be alive.



I think with the 11th- and 22nd-overall selections, the team could get an impact player. Aldridge-good, I don't know. But I damned sure thing they could get someone like Mitchell or Miles Turner. In this draft in particular, there is a good chance a very good player falls into the second-half of the lotto, because the first half is almost set in stone. I don't necessarily think they'll get the next RoY, but a long-term top-15 guy at his position seems doable. Hell, they could get another with their second pick, or they could combine them to move higher. I want the Philly style rebuild to hopefully land a Simmons and an Embiid to give the franchise some hope of being a contender again.



I doubt Kawhi is the determining factor here. He clearly wasn't doing much as a draw, so being in a similar situation that LMA was in 2015 with LMA passing the torch like Duncan was supposed to do with him. Walker and Aldridge are a solid foundation.

I think the Spurs are in for a nasty rebuild no matter what after losing Leonard. I would rather use Aldridge to help that rebuild be a little shorter as opposed to two more years of being a playoff bubble team and killing draft positioning while coming out of it with an Aldridge who might have the trade value of current Gasol. He and Leonard are the only assets the Spurs have with any trade value and they're not likely to build a very good team around Aldridge considering the crap roster they're working with right now from 3-12. No reason to half ass the rebuild when the franchise leaves town.

[tbdog]

I have to believe the team was trying to trade Mills during the deadline. Maybe Pop legit thought Bradley or Beli were upgrades over Green, but it seems more like he was looking to dump Patty's deal. It makes even more sense if you look at his new rotations. Marco off the bench with Tony and Manu with Green at the starting two would actually be a decent perimeter rotation. With Tony moving down this early, I think Pop no longer has Mills as a lock for the roster. Sure, he can sort of pair with Murray, but it's the easiest spot to upgrade.

As far as Pau, I think Pop still wants him. It may well be easier to trade Gasol's semi-expiring than Patty's deal, though. A single first in this new market may get it done. I am not sure they'd pay that, but if we hear them lining up for meetings with free agents, then it would at least suggest they are willing to.

Do you think Spurs gave Gasol the contract because they were always planning to trade him this coming offseason? Its a very easy contact to trade and the 6mil bonus is an apology.

[baseline bum]

Do you think Spurs gave Gasol the contract because they were always planning to trade him this coming offseason? Its a very easy contact to trade and the 6mil bonus is an apology.

The Spurs probably gave him that ridiculous contract after promising it to him if he opted out to make cap room to sign CP3 and CP3 said no.

[SAGirl]

B-b-but it's tendinopathy. It's a mysterious injury. Kawhi would never fake it. Anyone who thinks so is an idiot! -- spurstalk
No. Not spurstalk in general. He has a name: YGWHI...
Duncan2K5 is a super Kiwi Homer too.

[exstatic]

Didn't he attend one game after the meeting?



Can you do trades when the season is still going on? What are the rules? I didn't think you could until after the playoffs are over, but now that I think about it, I think I've seen trades during the playoffs before. If that is possible, is it only teams that have been eliminated from the playoffs that are able to make trades?

There is a trade period that opens after the regular season. Only teams not in the playoffs, or knocked out of the playoffs can participate. It’s VERY rare for teams to actually trade during this period.

[exstatic]

I think the Spurs are in for a nasty rebuild no matter what after losing Leonard. I would rather use Aldridge to help that rebuild be a little shorter as opposed to two more years of being a playoff bubble team and killing draft positioning while coming out of it with an Aldridge who might have the trade value of current Gasol. He and Leonard are the only assets the Spurs have with any trade value and they're not likely to build a very good team around Aldridge considering the crap roster they're working with right now from 3-12. No reason to half ass the rebuild when the franchise leaves town.
The thing is, after this year’s stacked draft, the next couple of years are looking like a desert. SA might want to kick that can down the road two or three years. It’s nice to be able to choose, in any case.

[Clipper Nation]

B-b-but it's tendinopathy. It's a mysterious injury. Kawhi would never fake it. Anyone who thinks so is an idiot! -- spurstalk
It's not just tendinopathy. He also has a severe case of WantsToBeAClipperitis. The only known cure for that is being traded to the Clippers for Austin Rivers, Wes Johnson and Sam Dekker. :downspin:

[UZER]

If Kawhi is choosing to sit out, he’s a dick.

That’s said, if that’s true, I really believe Pops coaching style and all the shticks it involves are a big part of it. Pop needs to get over himself, or better yet, just retire already.

[tbdog]

If Kawhi is choosing to sit out, he’s a dick.

That’s said, if that’s true, I really believe Pops coaching style and all the shticks it involves are a big part of it. Pop needs to get over himself, or better yet, just retire already.

No one else has had a problem. Jazz chose D Will over Sloan. Didn't work out for them.

[dbreiden83080]

If Kawhi is choosing to sit out, he’s a dick.

That’s said, if that’s true, I really believe Pops coaching style and all the shticks it involves are a big part of it. Pop needs to get over himself, or better yet, just retire already.

Pops coaching style was all good with TD, D-Rob, Tony and Manu. All either in or going to the Hall of Fame. Leonard needs to grow a pair. Because IMO he would be sitting out with any team right now. He is soft..

[UZER]

Pops coaching style was all good with TD, D-Rob, Tony and Manu. All either in or going to the Hall of Fame. Leonard needs to grow a pair. Because IMO he would be sitting out with any team right now. He is soft..

I’m not disagreeing with you. But this Pop is definitely not the Pop of yesteryear. Kawhi is getting the old senile grandpa who passes gas in the middle of the grocery store isle because “fuck it, what are you gonna do.”

[offset formation]

Didn't he attend one game after the meeting?



Can you do trades when the season is still going on? What are the rules? I didn't think you could until after the playoffs are over, but now that I think about it, I think I've seen trades during the playoffs before. If that is possible, is it only teams that have been eliminated from the playoffs that are able to make trades?

Entirely possible that he was, but I haven't noticed. And I think he was at the one after the meeting, before it became known to the outside world.

[exstatic]

I’m not disagreeing with you. But this Pop is definitely not the Pop of yesteryear. Kawhi is getting the old senile grandpa who passes gas in the middle of the grocery store isle because “fuck it, what are you gonna do.”
It’s all about the Benjamins. If it were about Pop, he would never have signed his second contract with SA. He already had his ring and FMVP.

[Ice009]

Entirely possible that he was, but I haven't noticed. And I think he was at the one after the meeting, before it became known to the outside world.

I am sure he attended one game after the meeting, but you also raise a good point, was that one game he attended after word of the meeting got out? So now what I really want to know is if he's attended a game after news of the "meeting" broke?

Man, 6 months ago I never ever thought I'd be here talking about this subject matter. What a terrible place to be in considering how great the future looked for KL in a Spurs uniform just a mere six, seven months ago. This whole situation makes Kawhi's ascension last season and amazing playoff run feel evanescent right about now.

[YGWHI]

This is all true. Pop, Manu and Tony have all taken hits. And for the most part ex-playes seems to support KL.
Why would this be surprising? Kawhi has a strong rep as gym-rat, unmatchable work ethic.

Like Shaq said "He's a class act, I'm not gonna question him. If the man says he's hurt, he's hurt"


Yes I saw this segment tonight and I have seen other segments where all these ex-players are Pro-Kawhi. All these guys are black so it's basically tribalism at work here when it comes to them supporting Kawhi.

This TD21 and daslicer theory about media black men supporting Kawhi...IDK. I think is more about a status issue -and to a lesser extent, knowledge about how injuries work-

Media is about fans/people buying stories, these guys on TV can't talk about old players like Parker who most fans barely remember who is...
"Parker? Jabari Parker, the Greek Freak teammate? Who's Eva? latin actress? Eva Mendes? Barry wife? Who....?"

I'm 24 years old, when I talk with non-spurs fans friends I have a hard time trying to explain who are Spurs players, they remember they beat LeBron in 2014 but forgot about the whole roster.

On other hand, Kawhi isn't exactly the most charismatic guy in the league but people remember he was MVP candidate last season, the LeBron/KD vs Kawhi games of last season...
It's weird, the Zaza thing made Kawhi more visible for masses...Kawhi turned into the good guy of movie who couldn't beat Warriors three-headed dragon just for that horrible Zaza.

Parker and Manu are legends, they're HOFers. At the same time for the fans-target audience of most sports TV shows, they're old af, just role players talking about an NBA MVP candidate, it's pretty obvious media would support Kawhi for business.

Also, former players know that many times in NHL/NBA/MLB/NHL history, doctors were wrong when they cleared players who were still injured.

These former players on TV are just saying they knew their own bodies better than other teammates and team's doctors.


Spurs have already gotten beaten pretty badly in this war. Spurs need to fire shots back at Kawhi through the media and leak out all the dirt on him. The damage Kawhi has done to them can't be undone but they need to prevent further damage by Kawhi's camp and do some damage to Kawhi's reputation.
Why do you thing that Parker/Manu talked about Kawhi? Don't be naive. Anything with Pop is purely coincidence.

Everyone knows in this league that no player talks about the franchise player in public.

Thunder, Pacers, Clips...They had chemistry issues but KD/PG13/CP3's teammates and coaches never talked about them until the big dog leaves the team

In this case, Parker and Manu already did it. What they said could damage other role player's rep but not Kawhi's. Like I've said before there is a status reason giving to Parker/Manu's words a negative effect for the Spurs in public.

Something like "These old guys trying to rush humble-gym rat Kawhi back?? WTF? Look at IT & Boston, it's Kawhi's own right not to play injured"

977165366504783873

978794063741665280

Most NBA non-spurs fans see this like...
979057712419033089

[tholdren]

This TD21 and daslicer theory about media black men supporting Kawhi...IDK. I think is more about a status issue -and to a lesser extent, knowledge about how injuries work-

Media is about fans/people buying stories, these guys on TV can't talk about old players like Parker who most fans barely remember who is...
"Parker? Jabari Parker, the Greek Freak teammate? Who's Eva? latin actress? Eva Mendes? Barry wife? Who....?"

I'm 24 years old, when I talk with non-spurs fans friends I have a hard time trying to explain who are Spurs players, they remember they beat LeBron in 2014 but forgot about the whole roster.

On other hand, Kawhi isn't exactly the most charismatic guy in the league but people remember he was MVP candidate last season, the LeBron/KD vs Kawhi games of last season...
It's weird, the Zaza thing made Kawhi more visible for masses...Kawhi turned into the good guy of movie who couldn't beat Warriors three-headed dragon just for that horrible Zaza.

Parker and Manu are legends, they're HOFers. At the same time for the fans-target audience of most sports TV shows, they're old af, just role players talking about an NBA MVP candidate, it's pretty obvious media would support Kawhi for business.

Also, former players know that many times in NHL/NBA/MLB/NHL history, doctors were wrong cleared players who were still injured. These former players on TV are just saying they knew their own bodies better than other teammates and team's doctors.


Why do you thing that Parker/Manu talked about Kawhi? Don't be naive. Anything with Pop is purely coincidence.

Everyone knows in this league that no player talks about the franchise player in public.

Thunder, Pacers, Clips...They had chemistry issues but KD/PG13/CP3's teammates and coaches never talked about them until the big dog leaves the team

In this case, Parker and Manu already did it. What they said could damage other role player rep but not Kawhi's. Like I've said before there is a status reason giving to Parker/Manu's words a negative effect for the Spurs in the non-spurs public.
Something like "These old guys trying to rush humble-gym rat Kawhi back?? WTF? Look at IT and Boston, Kawhi's in his own right not to play injured"

977165366504783873

978794063741665280

Did not read. Waste of life

[sasaint]

Aldridge is going to be 33 in three months. No way you can rebuild around him and no good reason to be a six seed for a couple of years and then get stuck with the nasty rebuild anyways after instead of trying to gain some assets that will be useful long term. This team has no young talent whatsoever to build on right now assuming Leonard is out. Murray looks like he'll become a slightly below average starter and he is far and away this team's second best young talent behind Leonard.

I don't believe Pop and RC are capable of a rebuild and certainly not with young guys. Their time is past.

[YGWHI]

I don't believe Pop and RC are capable of a rebuild and certainly not with young guys. Their time is past.
Agree. Pop's 70 years old, he could be there coaching one/two years more. Look at Philly, rebuilding around young guys takes at least four-five years.

With Pop as head-coach they won't rebuild, they will be a competitive 4/5/6 seed in the West until he retires or LeBron joins the team.

Also, being a 2nd round exit is fantastic, there is nothing negative about it. As Spurs fans we should learn to appreciate this.

Look at Wolves, they didn't make playoffs since 2003. Look at Bulls, they needed ton of years after MJ to make playoffs again...While the Spurs are still a playoffs team.

[YGWHI]

Did not read. Waste of life

I know, you praised me for posting more than ten tweets yesterday..I just posted two in this...Wait until I find other 8... :lol

[Play Boban]

This didn’t just start in 2016.

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2012/11/16/kawhi-leonard-out-up-to-two-weeks-due-to-tendinitis-in-his-left-knee/

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Knee-to-keep-Leonard-out-of-U-S-camp-4669108.php

Once again the only people that believe this misdiagnosis bullshit have a homoerotic affection towards Leonard. First it was he needs more minutes PATFO are keeping his numbers down now the Kawhite knights are saying they’ve mismanaged his tendinopathy. Don’t fall to the dark side you seem reasonable coachmac.

Truth bombs all up in here.

[bklynspursfan]

If Kawhi is choosing to sit out, he’s a dick.

That’s said, if that’s true, I really believe Pops coaching style and all the shticks it involves are a big part of it. Pop needs to get over himself, or better yet, just retire already.

Pop's coaching style helped Kawhi get a finals MVP (don't forget the "Thanks for pushing me" quote from Kawhi to Pop) and allowed Kawhi to do what he wanted and show his game all season last yr, which probably hurt Aldridge's production.

[baseline bum]

The thing is, after this year’s stacked draft, the next couple of years are looking like a desert. SA might want to kick that can down the road two or three years. It’s nice to be able to choose, in any case.

The 2011 draft was supposed be the 2000 draft redux but Kawhi and Klay Thompson came out of it. Meanwhile the 2012 draft was hyped as the 1984 draft all over again and didn't turn out any better than the 2011 draft. I could see your point if the Spurs had a lesser GM making their picks, but Buford has time and again showed an incredible eye for talent and I fully trust him to rebuild in the draft given high picks.

[Budkin]

It's just depressing tbh. Kawhi is a hell of a player and it sucks seeing this happen.

[baseline bum]

It's just depressing tbh. Kawhi is a hell of a player and it sucks seeing this happen.

It is depressing as hell, because players as amazing as Kawhi don't come around in a draft every year and you need someone at his level to have much of a chance of being a real contender.

[baseline bum]

I don't believe Pop and RC are capable of a rebuild and certainly not with young guys. Their time is past.

I completely disagree. RC has been nothing but excellent in the draft and Pop and his staff are exceptional at player development. Pop probably doesn't want to stick around for a rebuild considering his age and the mountain of money he's sitting on, but he'd be my first choice of coach to rebuild with.

[YGWHI]

Pop's coaching style helped Kawhi get a finals MVP (don't forget the "Thanks for pushing me" quote from Kawhi to Pop) and allowed Kawhi to do what he wanted and show his game all season last yr, which probably hurt Aldridge's production.

I guess only LMA hurts his own production last season. He didn't want #2 option spot and let it's clear in games where he didn't even tried to make an effort...

Also, Pop didn't find a way to make Kawhi/LMA mesh in two seasons. He refused to run P&Rs together, he didn't design plays where both players work together.

It was just "take your turn" offense.
Since Kawhi was the most versatile scorer and superior player on the team it's obvious he would be the main guy. But it shouldn't have been an issue, shouldn't hurt LMA if he would have been willing to be the second guy.

[dbreiden83080]

I’m not disagreeing with you. But this Pop is definitely not the Pop of yesteryear. Kawhi is getting the old senile grandpa who passes gas in the middle of the grocery store isle because “fuck it, what are you gonna do.”

So you are saying he has lost it as a coach? The team is still probably going to make the playoffs. And this roster is not that great when you take the best player off the team. So he is still a great coach. In terms of dealing with personalities. It’s always been the Spurs way or you don’t play here. If KL is not down with that so long. Hell he’s not playing period.

[daslicer]

Why would this be surprising? Kawhi has a strong rep as gym-rat, unmatchable work ethic.

Like Shaq said "He's a class act, I'm not gonna question him. If the man says he's hurt, he's hurt"



This TD21 and daslicer theory about media black men supporting Kawhi...IDK. I think is more about a status issue -and to a lesser extent, knowledge about how injuries work-

Media is about fans/people buying stories, these guys on TV can't talk about old players like Parker who most fans barely remember who is...
"Parker? Jabari Parker, the Greek Freak teammate? Who's Eva? latin actress? Eva Mendes? Barry wife? Who....?"

I'm 24 years old, when I talk with non-spurs fans friends I have a hard time trying to explain who are Spurs players, they remember they beat LeBron in 2014 but forgot about the whole roster.

On other hand, Kawhi isn't exactly the most charismatic guy in the league but people remember he was MVP candidate last season, the LeBron/KD vs Kawhi games of last season...
It's weird, the Zaza thing made Kawhi more visible for masses...Kawhi turned into the good guy of movie who couldn't beat Warriors three-headed dragon just for that horrible Zaza.

Parker and Manu are legends, they're HOFers. At the same time for the fans-target audience of most sports TV shows, they're old af, just role players talking about an NBA MVP candidate, it's pretty obvious media would support Kawhi for business.

Also, former players know that many times in NHL/NBA/MLB/NHL history, doctors were wrong when they cleared players who were still injured.

These former players on TV are just saying they knew their own bodies better than other teammates and team's doctors.


Why do you thing that Parker/Manu talked about Kawhi? Don't be naive. Anything with Pop is purely coincidence.

Everyone knows in this league that no player talks about the franchise player in public.

Thunder, Pacers, Clips...They had chemistry issues but KD/PG13/CP3's teammates and coaches never talked about them until the big dog leaves the team

In this case, Parker and Manu already did it. What they said could damage other role player's rep but not Kawhi's. Like I've said before there is a status reason giving to Parker/Manu's words a negative effect for the Spurs in public.

Something like "These old guys trying to rush humble-gym rat Kawhi back?? WTF? Look at IT & Boston, it's Kawhi's own right not to play injured"

977165366504783873

978794063741665280

Most NBA non-spurs fans see this like...
979057712419033089


I think of you as probably a young sheltered suburban kid with no real life experience. Posting that video of Cris Carter does not help your argument. Carter is going to be biased as fuck towards supporting Kawh simply because he says that he knows Kawhi's people which again helps my earlier argument in which I said these guys are auditioning to be Kawhi's insider. Anyways look at several posters who are super pro-black and feel Kawhi is sticking it to the man by what he's doing to the spurs. I feel a lot of these black sports analysts and former players have the same mindset when it comes to defending Kawhi. In their eyes the spurs are a very white organization that is bullying an innocent black man in Kawhi when it comes to this injury. You may have a hard time accepting that these guys have that racial mindset but I believe their mindset is much more closer to Harlem Heat than your world outlook. To me you showed your were clueless about race when you were getting emotional in a post a few weeks ago because you were shocked that your black friends had told you that they believed Draymond was a real black man since he shows emotions and speaks out on issues. I guarantee you that if Kawhi's traded and it's proven Kawhi's uncle set this up and the injury wasn't legit these black analysts will then spin it by saying "Kawhi made a power move you can't hate on that. He was showing empowerment as a player by taking control of the situation." The majority of people have racial biases towards their own race in this world and to act like they don't is showing you lack awareness.

You could be right about Pop being behind Tony and Manu peaking out about Kawhi's injury to the media. But ask yourself this question why would Parker and Manu then willingly take the bullet for Pop? I know you are going to say loyalty but I doubt it. Its possible that Manu and Tony could know the real deal behind Kawhi's injury in which it's not legit and know of the bs Kawhi's uncle is trying to pull. I'm guessing they are fed up with this bs and just have had enough of it. Both Manu and Parker are on the verge of retiring so unlike other teammates they are in a position where they don't have to worry about their future in this league. Also when you get older like these guys are you tend to not tolerate bs. Your Paul George example is a terrible example because PG was actually honest with his teammates from the get go that he wanted to be in LA and because of that there was no drama with his teammates. Your KD example is another bad example because there was no chemistry problems in OKC. KD was very passive in OKC so his teammates didn't know that he actually hated playing with Westbrook including Westbrook himself. How are they going to trash KD during the time they played with him if they didn't know he actually hated playing with them? Hence why KD has gotten the nickname the snake.

I'm not buying the IT alibi. IT is an undersized 5'7 PG which physically is a major turn off for a lot of teams when it comes to offering the max. I know Boston prior to the injury was hesitate to give him the max simply because they felt his height made him a huge disability and that he was only good because of Steven's system but was not a legit superstar. Boston was never going to win a championship with IT and Ainge knew this. I believe if IT was healthy the Celtics still wouldn't have given him the max because they would have seen him fail again against Lebron-Cavs and see he wasn't worth that investment when it comes to building a a championship team. Kawhi on the other hand is a legit superstar. I have heard Nick Wright even say he was going to get the max regardless of this injury. The only thing he risks possibly losing is the super max but he would still get offers on the open market for the max.

My last point is this injury is a farce in my eyes. I don't believe it's legit. I have talked to a good friend of mine whose a doctor along with my uncle who is also a doctor. They have both said they believe this injury is not legit. The spurs medical staff has cleared Kawhi and I actually trust them because for years they have been one of the best staffs in the league. Pop and RC also have a history of being super cautious when it comes to injuries. It's hard for me to believe the spurs medical staff and RC/Pop have suddenly jumped the shark when it comes to credibility.

If I'm proven wrong about this I will gladly eat crow like I have in the past about other subjects on this forum. I have taken my stance on this issue and you have taken yours. We will see who is right.

[SpursforSix]

No one else has had a problem. Jazz chose D Will over Sloan. Didn't work out for them.

Who would have a problem? The overpaid players? Or LMA getting all the touches he wants?

And if any of the young guys had a problem, they sure aren't going to voice it with Manu and Parker around.

[Ozballer]

Meshing of players is more on the leading player of the team offering direction and player chemistry on court than it is on the coach. That IS Kawhi 's biggest dilemma in any team. He cannot be anything but the leading player and ball getter but he can't lead his team or make other star players better. For a team's benefit he fits in much better as a strong second option following leadership (14-15 Spurs) which in turn is a total disservice to his immense on baller talent.



I guess only LMA hurts his own production last season. He didn't want #2 option spot and let it's clear in games where he didn't even tried to make an effort...

Also, Pop didn't find a way to make Kawhi/LMA mesh in two seasons. He refused to run P&Rs together, he didn't design plays where both players work together.

It was just "take your turn" offense.
Since Kawhi was the most versatile scorer and superior player on the team it's obvious he would be the main guy. But it shouldn't have been an issue, shouldn't hurt LMA if he would have been willing to be the second guy.

[spursistan]

979569987793940480

The subtle shots keep on coming.

Manu may not be there next season, but it hard to see how this guy can ever look his teammates in the eye again..He wasn't much of leader before, but his actions have been cancerous by default throughout the whole saga..

Dude could have shutdown his own ass from way back in January and let the team avoid any distraction. They probably could have salvaged the season with a 3rd seed and better chance at winning a playoff round.

[BillMc]

979569987793940480

The subtle shots keep on coming.

Manu may not be there next season, but it hard to see how this guy can ever look his teammates in the eye again..He wasn't much of leader before, but his actions have been cancerous by default throughout the whole saga..

Dude could have shutdown his own ass from way back in January and let the team avoid any distraction. They probably could have salvaged the season with a 3rd seed and better chance at winning a playoff round.

I guess the (small) silver lining is LMA is gaining a ton of team respect.

[weebo]

979569987793940480

The subtle shots keep on coming.

Manu may not be there next season, but it hard to see how this guy can ever look his teammates in the eye again..He wasn't much of leader before, but his actions have been cancerous by default throughout the whole saga..

Dude could have shutdown his own ass from way back in January and let the team avoid any distraction. They probably could have salvaged the season with a 3rd seed and better chance at winning a playoff round.

What the hell do you expect him say when asked how a teammate played after missing a game with a minor injury? :lol

[BillMc]

So, taking Kawhi at his word, how often does "his medical staff" review his injury? Weekly? Daily? If he is really trying to comeback, I wonder how frequent those checkups are? Most likely after his rehab workouts he has to report how he's feeling and then how well he recovers, but I wonder what the frequency is?

[exstatic]

So, taking Kawhi at his word, how often does "his medical staff" review his injury? Weekly? Daily? If he is really trying to comeback, I wonder how frequent those checkups are? Most likely after his rehab workouts he has to report how he's feeling and then how well he recovers, but I wonder what the frequency is?

It’s not about any injury. DRob basically said so on the national telecast. Think of it as a very subtle holdout to force a trade. He might not wind up where he wants though. Spurs are usually accommodating, but I don’t think they will be this time. They’ll get the best package, and if Kawhi bolts his new team, he loses even more money, one year, and lower raises on a non-Bird FA deal.

[baseline bum]

It’s not about any injury. DRob basically said so on the national telecast. Think of it as a very subtle holdout to force a trade. He might not wind up where he wants though. Spurs are usually accommodating, but I don’t think they will be this time. They’ll get the best package, and if Kawhi bolts his new team, he loses even more money, one year, and lower raises on a non-Bird FA deal.

What exactly did David say? I missed it.

[daslicer]

What exactly did David say? I missed it.

I remember him just saying straight up that Kawhi doesn't have leadership skills and he's just not a leader. He kept on saying there was a leadership problem going on with Kawhi.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

We weren't wrong. He's coming back next season and owning the f'ing league.

[spursistan]

I guess the (small) silver lining is LMA is gaining a ton of team respect.
979713535843405824

Yeah, but in the meantime the message is getting really obvious and awkward for the intended recipient.

[exstatic]

979713535843405824

Yeah, but in the meantime the message is getting really obvious and awkward for the intended recipient.

It should be awkward for him. He’s being a little bitch.

It seems like the gloves are coming off, at this point. They’re not really trying to hide their disdain. That tells me there is a divorce on the horizon.

[offset formation]

It should be awkward for him. He’s being a little bitch.

It seems like the gloves are coming off, at this point. They’re not really trying to hide their disdain. That tells me there is a divorce on the horizon.

Yep, I think he gone. Didn't want to believe it but I'm starting to lean heavily that way.

There are two things that make me hesitant to go all in though.

1. Why did the Spurs team doctors come around to agreeing with his NY doctors that he's still hurt?

2. The whole "return from injury management" thing still doesn't make sense to me though. It seems as if he is gone, they'd simply list him out for the year...unless they are just trying to really put it on him. But then #1, really, really wouldn't make sense.

So, I'm flustered.

[Slippy]

It should be awkward for him. He’s being a little bitch.

It seems like the gloves are coming off, at this point. They’re not really trying to hide their disdain. That tells me there is a divorce on the horizon.

Ya its becoming pretty obvious. The quotes keep topping each other for frankness

[DenialTwist]

I remember him just saying straight up that Kawhi doesn't have leadership skills and he's just not a leader. He kept on saying there was a leadership problem going on with Kawhi.

The best player on the team is not always the best leader. Look at Curry. Draymond is the vocal leader on the Warriors. When KD was in OKC, Westbrook was the leader. LMA was the same way in Portland. Lillard was seen more as a leader. For the Spurs, Pop will always be the leader. It's his way or the highway. It doesn't matter who leads the team vocally in the lockerroom when Tony and Manu are still there too.

All the comments from Pop and the players seem to be digs at Kawhi. No other team in the NBA would do that to their franchise player unless they already made up their mind like David Aldridge said on NBA TV, that they are going to trade him. The comments are stupid because it just lowers his trade value.

[spurs10]

979569987793940480

The subtle shots keep on coming.

Manu may not be there next season, but it hard to see how this guy can ever look his teammates in the eye again..He wasn't much of leader before, but his actions have been cancerous by default throughout the whole saga..

Dude could have shutdown his own ass from way back in January and let the team avoid any distraction. They probably could have salvaged the season with a 3rd seed and better chance at winning a playoff round. Now even the local media is publicly doing their very best 'Tony Parker.' If Pop hasn't told Jeff Mc that Kawhi is leaving and these are just Jeff Mc's 'read what you will' personal digs at Kawhi it's not a great idea.

[exstatic]

The best player on the team is not always the best leader. Look at Curry. Draymond is the vocal leader on the Warriors. When KD was in OKC, Westbrook was the leader. LMA was the same way in Portland. Lillard was seen more as a leader. For the Spurs, Pop will always be the leader. It's his way or the highway. It doesn't matter who leads the team vocally in the lockerroom when Tony and Manu are still there too.

All the comments from Pop and the players seem to be digs at Kawhi. No other team in the NBA would do that to their franchise player unless they already made up their mind like David Aldridge said on NBA TV, that they are going to trade him. The comments are stupid because it just lowers his trade value.

Either they know they won’t get much for him, anyway, or maybe they already have a deal in place, and it doesn’t matter

[Ice009]

When did David Aldridge say they've made up their mind? Was it during the Thunder game or was it some sort of interview/talk show segment off the court?

[jermaine]

He's said that there is a bunch of moving parts that's factoring into Kawhi not playing. Basically Kawhi could play if he really wanted to, but he doesn't know if he wants to play here.

[jermaine]

Also the Spurs aren't sure they want Kawhi to be the "Leader" anymore. They're tired of him an ready to move on.

[Ice009]

When/where did he say this? During the last game or on a segment after the game off court?

[Twisted_Dawg]

1. Why did the Spurs team doctors come around to agreeing with his NY doctors that he's still hurt?.

When did this happen? Were those his doctors or league doctors?[

[BillMc]

He's said that there is a bunch of moving parts that's factoring into Kawhi not playing. Basically Kawhi could play if he really wanted to, but he doesn't know if he wants to play here.

Yeah, that's what I got out of that too.

It must be nice to collect 19 million and still have the option not to play PRESENTLY because your unsure if you want to play here in the FUTURE. All those saying he needs to protect himself for the next contract, seem to forget he's been paid to play now.

[Russ]

Does anyone know who Kawhi's doctors are or where they are based? That might be telling.

For example, are they based in LA, NY, SA? How many or them are they? Are they an existing "team" or group of doctors or are they an ad hoc assembly?

Are there more than one set of doctors and have some cleared him and some not? Where do the NY doctors fit in to this mix?

What are their reputations? Are they esteemed experts who must be respected or "yes men" hacks who would give the patient (or his employer) any opinion (or prescription) the patient wanted?

It is surprising in this much examined story that such basic reporting seems too be missing.

[cd98]

979713535843405824

Yeah, but in the meantime the message is getting really obvious and awkward for the intended recipient.

Meanwhile, Kawhi has stopped attending home games.

[Big Empty]

This injury has lingered for 6 months now. Ud think he reptured his achillis.

[Brunodf]

Does anyone know who Kawhi's doctors are or where they are based? That might be telling.

For example, are they based in LA, NY, SA? How many or them are they? Are they an existing "team" or group of doctors or are they an ad hoc assembly?

Are there more than one set of doctors and have some cleared him and some not? Where do the NY doctors fit in to this mix?

What are their reputations? Are they esteemed experts who must be respected or "yes men" hacks who would give the patient (or his employer) any opinion (or prescription) the patient wanted?

It is surprising in this much examined story that such basic reporting seems too be missing.
Every single one (including the NY) cleared him but his personal ones who said that it's possible that there's some micro fractures that they didn't catch

[offset formation]

When did this happen? Were those his doctors or league doctors?[

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/87n5gq/simmons_pop_now_says_spurs_medical_staff_in/

[YGWHI]

Meshing of players is more on the leading player of the team offering direction and player chemistry on court than it is on the coach.
If we talk about how the roster is built, the style of game of a team, how the offense works, it's all on the coach.

Chemistry can help to make the system successful but it's not that crucial. Kobe-Shaq won rings while hating each other, there are many examples of lack of chemitry among sports champs.


That IS Kawhi 's biggest dilemma in any team. He cannot be anything but the leading player and ball getter but he can't lead his team or make other star players better. For a team's benefit he fits in much better as a strong second option following leadership (14-15 Spurs) which in turn is a total disservice to his immense on baller talent.

His only presence on court makes his teammates better, this whole team looked better with him last seasons.

I've said before it's so hard for a young guy to be a leader off-court with multiple HOFers and CIA Pop on the same team.

Look at this season. LMA's Spurs best player on court but Manu/Parker are still the vocal leaders off-court.

We know that Kawhi stayed close to some young Spurs' players, they already said he called/texted them all season.

I guess if Kawhi joins a young team, he would feel like it's his team finally and not Pop/Manu/Parker's team.

But also, like DenialTwist (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49803) said, I wouldn't worry that much about leadership on/off court.

There were many successful teams where tops players have been the #1 option/leader on court while other teammates were the vocal, locker-room leaders.

[BillMc]

Well, Kawhi being not a leader but our best player isn't always a problem. Kareem was the best player on the 80s Lakers through at least 86, but Magic was the leader. Manu and Tony are there to provide the leadership if Kawhi and LMA lack it. DJ is clearly trying to make strides in the leadership department. Patty too (though it would help a lot if his game was better).

There are ways around it if your best player is not your best leader. There aren't many ways around it if your best player won't step on the court.

[YGWHI]

Now even the local media is publicly doing their very best 'Tony Parker.' If Pop hasn't told Jeff Mc that Kawhi is leaving and these are just Jeff Mc's 'read what you will' personal digs at Kawhi it's not a great idea.

Do you really think that SAEN beat writter would say something that Pop disapproves? Just read his articles/tweets, he's PATFO media voice.

When media sports "personalities" on National TV are like "if Kawhi says he's injured, he's injured", RC/Pop need to do some damage-control, Jeff is the perfect "yes, man" for this.

[YGWHI]

He's said that there is a bunch of moving parts that's factoring into Kawhi not playing. Basically Kawhi could play if he really wanted to, but he doesn't know if he wants to play here.
He didn't say the latter.

[101A]

This about this financially. It may not be about Kawhi's brand, making more in a larger market. It could be about a degenerative condition. Kawhi simply might not be the player he was ever again. Stepping on the court for an extended period when he is supposed to be "healthy" could prove that beyond any doubt. This summer is the ONE shot, therefore, to sign a supermax, but he can't show his cards. Make the story about wanting a trade, and not about limited ability. MILLIONS on the line. Spurs could play along. A Supermax player trade nets more.

[baseline bum]

This about this financially. It may not be about Kawhi's brand, making more in a larger market. It could be about a degenerative condition. Kawhi simply might not be the player he was ever again. Stepping on the court for an extended period when he is supposed to be "healthy" could prove that beyond any doubt. This summer is the ONE shot, therefore, to sign a supermax, but he can't show his cards. Make the story about wanting a trade, and not about limited ability. MILLIONS on the line. Spurs could play along. A Supermax player trade nets more.

They can't trade him for a year after signing a supermax extension.

[daslicer]

The best player on the team is not always the best leader. Look at Curry. Draymond is the vocal leader on the Warriors. When KD was in OKC, Westbrook was the leader. LMA was the same way in Portland. Lillard was seen more as a leader. For the Spurs, Pop will always be the leader. It's his way or the highway. It doesn't matter who leads the team vocally in the lockerroom when Tony and Manu are still there too.

All the comments from Pop and the players seem to be digs at Kawhi. No other team in the NBA would do that to their franchise player unless they already made up their mind like David Aldridge said on NBA TV, that they are going to trade him. The comments are stupid because it just lowers his trade value.

:lol Don't shoot the messenger I was just reporting what Drob said. Yes I have known for years the best player on a team is not always the leader. Also the Spurs taking shots at Kawhi will not lower his trade value. Teams are more than willing to take a chance on a superstar regardless of him having a bad reputation.

[sasaint]

This about this financially. It may not be about Kawhi's brand, making more in a larger market. It could be about a degenerative condition. Kawhi simply might not be the player he was ever again. Stepping on the court for an extended period when he is supposed to be "healthy" could prove that beyond any doubt. This summer is the ONE shot, therefore, to sign a supermax, but he can't show his cards. Make the story about wanting a trade, and not about limited ability. MILLIONS on the line. Spurs could play along. A Supermax player trade nets more.

Interesting take. Personally I believe Kawhi has a physical issue and possibly a mental one, as well. So, your theory sounds plausible to me. One thing is certain - we on ST don't have a clue, and will not have one until almost immediately before it happens - be it trade or contract extension. It will have to percolate up to the national media level because the probing local media will be just as self-blinded and self-gagged as ever regarding the Spurs.

I don't remember who was tarred and feathered for the suggestion, but some prescient poster observed a year or more ago that the Spurs would be best served by utilizing Kawhi as a super second option. Turns out that is probably what would have been best for the team and Kawhi. It seems clear that the "it's Kawhi's team now" drumbeat that started up after his finals MVP was never embraced or endorsed by Kawhi, himself. Before that he was the league's best defender and, for most of a season, it's best 3-point shooter. But Pop wanted a Kobe, instead, so he transformed Kawhi into the iso-focus of the offense, trying to turn a great, albeit totally reticent BB player into a team leader on offense and defense as well as the off-court leader/face of the franchise. It seems that may not have sat very well.

[sasaint]

:lol Don't shoot the messenger I was just reporting what Drob said. Yes I have known for years the best player on a team is not always the leader. Also the Spurs taking shots at Kawhi will not lower his trade value. Teams are more than willing to take a chance on a superstar regardless of him having a bad reputation.

The problem was that the Spurs tried to shoe-horn Kawhi into a leadership role without regard for his ability or desire. I suspect the team recognized that there was a serious leadership crisis looming with Timmy's departure. As old as he was, Tim had the resume, cachet and personality to still be the leader of a team that was changing character. But Manu and Tony do not appear to have that same ability with the younger guys. (In fact, they may be perceived as mere Pop-puppets.) As many have noted, LMA wants to be the #1 option on the floor, but he doesn't really work as a leader on or off the floor. Certainly not the face of the franchise. Patty was given an audition, but he has been undermined by his very patchy play this season. Pau and Rudy aren't viable options. Who is there to fill the leadership void that Tim left behind?

[spurs10]

Do you really think that SAEN beat writter would say something that Pop disapproves? Just read his articles/tweets, he's PATFO media voice.

When media sports "personalities" on National TV are like "if Kawhi says he's injured, he's injured", RC/Pop need to do some damage-control, Jeff is the perfect "yes, man" for this. That's my point, Pop hasn't said anything negative about Kawhi. He's says it's unfortunate and every one is doing the best they can. Jeff's post seems like a negative dig at Kawhi. If Jeff is speaking for Pop then things are worse than I thought.

[SAGirl]

979713535843405824

Yeah, but in the meantime the message is getting really obvious and awkward for the intended recipient.
Specially note the reference that Lamarcus did it for his teammates. it’s just the truth that they don’t win the last game without him. For that reason I am glad that they pulled out the win. His efforts weren’t wasted.

Kawhi just doesn’t feel like a part of the team at this point.

[YGWHI]

I feel a lot of these black sports analysts and former players have the same mindset when it comes to defending Kawhi. In their eyes the spurs are a very white organization that is bullying an innocent black man in Kawhi when it comes to this injury.

Those black media guys have white bosses, ESPN/ABC/TNT owners who only care about selling stories, ratings, views/RTs/likes.

If they support Kawhi is just for business. Because it how media works, they have always done it that way.

If the story about Kawhi's stoic guy being bullied doesn't have rating/followers, they would have changed their narrative about him in a second.


To me you showed your were clueless about race when you were getting emotional in a post a few weeks ago because you were shocked that your black friends had told you that they believed Draymond was a real black man since he shows emotions and speaks out on issues...The majority of people have racial biases towards their own race in this world and to act like they don't is showing you lack awareness.
I just try that other people racial biases don't affect my life. I know it sounds naive/candid/stupid but I really try.


You could be right about Pop being behind Tony and Manu peaking out about Kawhi's injury to the media. But ask yourself this question why would Parker and Manu then willingly take the bullet for Pop? I know you are going to say loyalty but I doubt it. Its possible that Manu and Tony could know the real deal behind Kawhi's injury in which it's not legit and know of the bs Kawhi's uncle is trying to pull. I'm guessing they are fed up with this bs and just have had enough of it. Both Manu and Parker are on the verge of retiring so unlike other teammates they are in a position where they don't have to worry about their future in this league.
I truly believe Kawhi's injured so "uncle" version doesn't make sense to me. I guess if Parker/Manu talked about him, it was for the same reason that JeffMcDonald is doing it...Just PATFO doing damage control.


Your Paul George example is a terrible example because PG was actually honest with his teammates from the get go that he wanted to be in LA and because of that there was no drama with his teammates.
I was talking about...
PG/Hibbert issues, not for Hibbert wife, just because they really hate each other
PG throwing his coach under the bus in public when he suggested PG should play at 4 "It's not going to be logging 30 minutes at the power forward...I don't know if I'm cut out for a 4 spot"
PG throwing shit on CJ Milles..."I gotta get the last shot".

Paul George wasn't exactly the most beloved player in that locker room.


Your KD example is another bad example because there was no chemistry problems in OKC. KD was very passive in OKC so his teammates didn't know that he actually hated playing with Westbrook including Westbrook himself. How are they going to trash KD during the time they played with him if they didn't know he actually hated playing with them? Hence why KD has gotten the nickname the snake.

We all watched OKC games where KD asked for the ball and Russ didn't even look at him...KD's face told a lot about...I doubt KD/Russ teammates ignored the whole thing.


I have heard Nick Wright even say he was going to get the max regardless of this injury. The only thing he risks possibly losing is the super max but he would still get offers on the open market for the max.
For the record the difference between max and super max is...ton of millions.


It's hard for me to believe the spurs medical staff and RC/Pop have suddenly jumped the shark when it comes to credibility.
"Pop says Spurs medical staff in agreement with Kawhi's doctors"...Who knows.
https://twitter.com/GregSimmonsKSAT/status/976272660953956360


If I'm proven wrong about this I will gladly eat crow like I have in the past about other subjects on this forum. I have taken my stance on this issue and you have taken yours. We will see who is right.
I just read a guy here saying Kawhi's cancer...He doesn't know shit. He deserves a player who says all what Paul George said about his teammates/coach.

He deserves a player questioning Mills/Pau deals in public like "I have to carry old guys my whole career in SA and these two overpaid now?"

He deserves a guy like KD using fake Tw accounts to talk shit about his coach and teammates...

When the team gets that player, he'll know how a cancer-locker room realy looks..

[SAGirl]

He's said that there is a bunch of moving parts that's factoring into Kawhi not playing. Basically Kawhi could play if he really wanted to, but he doesn't know if he wants to play here.
That meeting with his teammates “imploring” him to return gets a whole new meaning in context.
him not showing up at games and the comments from David Robinson about his lack of leadership also implies he doesn’t care about them.

[YGWHI]

That's my point, Pop hasn't said anything negative about Kawhi. He's says it's unfortunate and every one is doing the best they can. Jeff's post seems like a negative dig at Kawhi. If Jeff is speaking for Pop then things are worse than I thought.
It's really bad.

I try to stay positive, at the same time I can't imagine Pop Kawhi Parker Manu coexisting, working together again after what they said.

[offset formation]

It's really bad.

I try to stay positive, at the same time I can't imagine Pop Kawhi Parker Manu coexisting, working together again after what they said.

Enough man. Does Kawhi have no blame in this? Or has your fandom clouded your judgment? In what world would you be cool with a teammate acting like he has? And I'm even granting you that he could be injured. His aloofness and inability to make the situation clear to his team and coaches ought to be concerning to you.

[SAGirl]

before this season i thought kawhi was a spurs warrior. now hes just a mermaid
:lmao
Well mermaids are beautiful... oh wait I got sidetracked :lol

[SAGirl]

This about this financially. It may not be about Kawhi's brand, making more in a larger market. It could be about a degenerative condition. Kawhi simply might not be the player he was ever again. Stepping on the court for an extended period when he is supposed to be "healthy" could prove that beyond any doubt. This summer is the ONE shot, therefore, to sign a supermax, but he can't show his cards. Make the story about wanting a trade, and not about limited ability. MILLIONS on the line. Spurs could play along. A Supermax player trade nets more.
I’ve thought of this too. Specially bc him being injured is sometimes put in doubt, which is a perfect deflection. Make it about anything else but the injury.

I always come back to the injury though. What if he’s ok to play but he’s just not going to be the same player?

I’ve also thought about the possibility that he’s not ever going to be really pain free. There could be flaring up if it’s a chronic or degenerative condition. There’s careers that have ended bc of things like that. Or guys who look washed up like Chandler Parsons. Do the Spurs want to have a supermaxed Chandler Parsons?

It’s not good any way we look at it. If he’s injured beyond repair is worse than if he’s just autistic and doesn’t care about anyone or whatever.

[YGWHI]

Enough man. Does Kawhi have no blame in this?

On what? On being injured? I've said before I truly believe he's injured.

If people are willing to believe a guy with super strong work ethic who loves to play basketball more than anything "suddenly" doesn't want to play...Well, I won't trust them. I'll trust what I saw in that player the whole six years he was in SA.


His aloofness and inability to make the situation clear to his team and coaches ought to be concerning to you.
If he has this issue, how Parker/Manu questioning him in public can help??

Nah, my "fandom" has nothing to do with this. Unlike you, I realize that players talking in public about a teammate never is a good thing. Never. It doesn't matter if they're Tony Parker or Paul George, it never led to good things.

No one player should wash dirty laundry in public.

[YGWHI]

Meanwhile, Kawhi has stopped attending home games.

Explains why he hasn't been on the bench, he's in NYC still rehabbing.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22979734/kawhi-leonard-san-antonio-spurs-returned-new-york-rehabilitation?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true

[jimbo]

This about this financially. It may not be about Kawhi's brand, making more in a larger market. It could be about a degenerative condition. Kawhi simply might not be the player he was ever again. Stepping on the court for an extended period when he is supposed to be "healthy" could prove that beyond any doubt. This summer is the ONE shot, therefore, to sign a supermax, but he can't show his cards. Make the story about wanting a trade, and not about limited ability. MILLIONS on the line. Spurs could play along. A Supermax player trade nets more.

Yeah tbh if I'm Kiwi and I know i'm falling apart I'm just gonna stay out cause I know that some team is going to offer me a Supermax based on "potential."

Then he can just sit back and laugh as he collects his Derrick Rose checks.

[SAGirl]

The problem was that the Spurs tried to shoe-horn Kawhi into a leadership role without regard for his ability or desire. I suspect the team recognized that there was a serious leadership crisis looming with Timmy's departure. As old as he was, Tim had the resume, cachet and personality to still be the leader of a team that was changing character. But Manu and Tony do not appear to have that same ability with the younger guys. (In fact, they may be perceived as mere Pop-puppets.) As many have noted, LMA wants to be the #1 option on the floor, but he doesn't really work as a leader on or off the floor. Certainly not the face of the franchise. Patty was given an audition, but he has been undermined by his very patchy play this season. Pau and Rudy aren't viable options. Who is there to fill the leadership void that Tim left behind?
you don’t want to acknowledge it bc you don’t like him but Lamarcus has really been the team’s leader this season and the player around whom everyone has rallied. DJ made progress too but he’s too young and specially, he is still learning too much himself to lead others. He’s coming along though and he’s always exerting effort. There’s no game one could say DJ was slacking... he’s just still learning and coming along with his own game at this point.

In terms of being vocal and the spirit animal Manu is, just bc of how he plays, how he always competes and the way he’s helped close games out. When he retires there will be a vaccum.

Patty is just a good teammate, but hopefully someone better comes along.

I agree with you Pop pressured him to be a leader and perhaps it’s even made Kiwi uncomfortable. He might welcome DJ or someone else becoming more vocal. I have trouble continuing to see Kiwi with the Spurs though.

[YGWHI]

Yeah tbh if I'm Kiwi and I know i'm falling apart I'm just gonna stay out cause I know that some team is going to offer me a Supermax based on "potential."

Then he can just sit back and laugh as he collects his Derrick Rose checks.

You use your troll-account only for this...While your main accounts knows that no one team but Spurs can offer him the super-max.... Good job!

[exstatic]

That's my point, Pop hasn't said anything negative about Kawhi. He's says it's unfortunate and every one is doing the best they can. Jeff's post seems like a negative dig at Kawhi. If Jeff is speaking for Pop then things are worse than I thought.

I’m not sure how you’re getting “Jeff is speaking for Pop” out of a direct quote from Pop. When asked directly, Pop says all of the right things, but he, and the senior players, are definitely throwing shade Kawhi’s way when they laud LMA for playing through pain. That’s not Jeff speaking for Pop, in any way shape or form.

[sasaint]

you don’t want to acknowledge it bc you don’t like him but Lamarcus has really been the team’s leader this season and the player around whom everyone has rallied. DJ made progress too but he’s too young and specially, he is still learning too much himself to lead others. He’s coming along though and he’s always exerting effort. There’s no game one could say DJ was slacking... he’s just still learning and coming along with his own game at this point.

In terms of being vocal and the spirit animal Manu is, just bc of how he plays, how he always competes and the way he’s helped close games out. When he retires there will be a vaccum.

Patty is just a good teammate, but hopefully someone better comes along.

I agree with you Pop pressured him to be a leader and perhaps it’s even made Kiwi uncomfortable. He might welcome DJ or someone else becoming more vocal. I have trouble continuing to see Kiwi with the Spurs though.

My friend, the last game was literally the first game that LMA didn't disappear or even hurt the team in crunch time. LMA is somewhat less reticent than Kawhi, but he lacks the personality and the crunch time presence to truly be the leader. As I posted some time back, the "LMA is a great leader" chorus smacks of the same illusory drumbeat about "this is Kawhi's team now" that the team pounded in the past. You introduced the term "spirit animal" to our chats awhile back, and as I intuitively grasp the term, there is nobody who really fills that role on this team - not even Manu, as hard as he plays. I believe that he and Tony are closing in on irrelevancy in a locker room with a bunch of guys young enough to be their sons. The lack of any bridge between those old guys and the young guys is what is hurting this team the most. Age-wise, Kawhi was the obvious bridge, but he has declined in a most emphatic way. As evidenced by its play since the early, soft schedule, this team is essentially rudderless, and there is no spirit animal in sight.

[dbreiden83080]

Specially note the reference that Lamarcus did it for his teammates. it’s just the truth that they don’t win the last game without him. For that reason I am glad that they pulled out the win. His efforts weren’t wasted.

Kawhi just doesn’t feel like a part of the team at this point.

He would be alienated from every team in the league pulling this crap. And if he was in LA right now, the media there would be camped out on his door 24/7 demanding he explain himself..

[daslicer]

Those black media guys have white bosses, ESPN/ABC/TNT owners who only care about selling stories, ratings, views/RTs/likes.

If they support Kawhi is just for business. Because it how media works, they have always done it that way.

If the story about Kawhi's stoic guy being bullied doesn't have rating/followers, they would have changed their narrative about him in a second.


I just try that other people racial biases doesn't affect my life. I know it sounds naive/candid/stupid but I really try.


I truly believe Kawhi's injured so "uncle" version doesn't make sense to me. I guess if Parker/Manu talked about him, it was for the same reason that JeffMcDonald is doing it...Just PATFO doing damage control.


I was talking about...
PG/Hibbert issues, not for Hibbert wife, just because they really hate each other
PG throwing his coach under the bus in public when he suggested PG should play at 4 "It's not going to be logging 30 minutes at the power forward...I don't know if I'm cut out for a 4 spot"
PG throwing shit on CJ Milles..."I gotta get the last shot".

Paul George wasn't exactly the most beloved player in that locker room.



We all watched OKC games KD asked for the ball and Russ didn't even look at him...KD's face told a lot about...I doubt KD/Russ teammates ignored the whole thing.


For the record the difference between max and super max is...ton of millions.


"Pop says Spurs medical staff in agreement with Kawhi's doctors"...Who knows.
https://twitter.com/GregSimmonsKSAT/status/976272660953956360


I just read a guy here saying Kawhi's cancer...He doesn't know shit. He deserves a player who says all what Paul George said about his teammates/coach.

He deserves a player questioning Mills/Pau deals in public like "I have to carry old guys my whole career in SA and these two overpaid now?"

He deserves a guy like KD using fake Tw accounts to talk shit about his coach and teammates...

When the team gets that player, he'll know how a cancer-locker room realy looks..

Won't address all your points but only a few since we disagree on just about everything

1. I don't need you to illustrate what a cancer is. :lol I saw it first hand with Dennis Rodman back in '95 when you were in diapers but you wouldn't know about that since you are a Kawhi fanboy. You trying to illustrate what a cancer is to me is like some young kid trying to illustrate what suffering is to a World War 2 holocaust survivor. Pretty stupid and laughable.

2. Props to you for figuring out why these black media sports analysts are allowed to get away with being biased because like you said their white bosses are making money off of this. Still doesn't take away from the fact they are biased and have their own agenda which just happens to coincide with the media's agenda of wanting Kawhi out of San Antonio and in a big market like LA. ESPN and these other big media outlets has a history of hiring these guys to spread their propaganda when it's profitable and then firing them when their racial bias becomes offensive and costs them money. They have even fired Stephen A Smith in the past because they found him too offensive when he wasn't generating money for them. If you work a little bit harder you might actually become a three dimensional thinker one day.

3. I think we all knew Kevin hated playing with Russell Westbrook and everyone suspected that by his reactions on TV when Russ didn't pass him the ball. The problem however is KD on many occasions kept on saying in interviews that he liked Russ taking all the shots and he wanted him to continue to do it. It's one of the many reasons why I think KD is a dumbass. I have heard his teammates thought he was fine with Russ hogging ball mainly because he kept on stating he had no problem with Russ taking all the shots. Also there was no fights in the locker room among teammates or coaches. So there really was no chemistry problem since KD didn't voice out his frustrations to his teammates or the media about Russ being a ball hog.

4 You posting that tweet about Pop saying the medical staff is in agreement with Kawhi's doctors is very vague. It could mean so many different things. It doesn't confirm or deny anything about this mysterious injury.

5. The difference between the max and the super max goes away once you factor in the endorsements Kawhi would receive in a big market in LA that he wouldn't receive in SA. I think it's unfortunate for a small market teams in the future that the super max might not be good enough to protect them from losing a star player to a market like NYC,LA due to the endorsement money those markets can provide.

[SAGirl]

My friend, the last game was literally the first game that LMA didn't disappear or even hurt the team in crunch time. LMA is somewhat less reticent than Kawhi, but he lacks the personality and the crunch time presence to truly be the leader. As I posted some time back, the "LMA is a great leader" chorus smacks of the same illusory drumbeat about "this is Kawhi's team now" that the team pounded in the past. You introduced the term "spirit animal" to our chats awhile back, and as I intuitively grasp the term, there is nobody who really fills that role on this team - not even Manu, as hard as he plays. I believe that he and Tony are closing in on irrelevancy in a locker room with a bunch of guys young enough to be their sons. The lack of any bridge between those old guys and the young guys is what is hurting this team the most. Age-wise, Kawhi was the obvious bridge, but he has declined in a most emphatic way. As evidenced by its play since the early, soft schedule, this team is essentially rudderless, and there is no spirit animal in sight.
Think all the young guys look up to Manu and Lamarcus. It’s just they don’t have anyone right now that fits your definitions. It’s obvious Pop wanted Kawhi to be that guy. It’s I think why Robinson said what he said about leadership and he did mention the team having younger members right now that weren’t around in championship seasons that don’t know what it takes. If we are talking about championships you could say LMA also doesn’t know what it takes since he’s never won any, and they aren’t going to win one this season. They do need Kawhi back and committed to the team...

[sasaint]

Think all the young guys look up to Manu and Lamarcus. It’s just they don’t have anyone right now that fits your definitions. It’s obvious Pop wanted Kawhi to be that guy. It’s I think why Robinson said what he said about leadership and he did mention the team having younger members right now that weren’t around in championship seasons that don’t know what it takes. If we are talking about championships you could say LMA also doesn’t know what it takes since he’s never won any, and they aren’t going to win one this season. They do need Kawhi back and committed to the team...

I think it is your definition, also. I think the young guys probably do look up to LMA and Manu (why no Tony?), even Pau because of his past accomplishments. But I think that's a far cry from their being a "spirit animal." Literally nobody on this team fills that role. (You even point out that LMA doesn't know what it takes to earn a championship and wear that mantle.) The team does, indeed, need a contented and committed Kawhi to be anything other than an also-ran. But they need a "spirit animal" perhaps even more - not only for the team's direction, but to relieve Kawhi of any responsibility beyond being a great player (assuming he will be physically able to deliver.)

[daslicer]

The problem was that the Spurs tried to shoe-horn Kawhi into a leadership role without regard for his ability or desire. I suspect the team recognized that there was a serious leadership crisis looming with Timmy's departure. As old as he was, Tim had the resume, cachet and personality to still be the leader of a team that was changing character. But Manu and Tony do not appear to have that same ability with the younger guys. (In fact, they may be perceived as mere Pop-puppets.) As many have noted, LMA wants to be the #1 option on the floor, but he doesn't really work as a leader on or off the floor. Certainly not the face of the franchise. Patty was given an audition, but he has been undermined by his very patchy play this season. Pau and Rudy aren't viable options. Who is there to fill the leadership void that Tim left behind?

Tim was always going to command respect in the locker room like you said simply because he was the GOAT spur and he had the personality to lead along with physically being imposing just by being 7 feet. Tim was also a very smart guy he had a degree psychology and knew how to read people. All those things factored in made him a great leader. I'm not sure if you follow wrestling but I have always compared Duncan to the Undertaker. They have the same type of aura and presence . Ironically I have heard the Undertaker is Duncan's favorite wrestler of all time.

The spurs situation when it comes to leadership similar to what the Lakers and Celtics dealt with when they lost Magic and Bird to retirement. Just like in the Spur case both organization still had some key veteran guys left over from the title runs in Mchale,Parish,Worthy. McHale,Parish,Worthy all had the same types of problem in leading that Manu and Tony have in their current situation.

[SAGirl]

I think it is your definition, also. I think the young guys probably do look up to LMA and Manu (why no Tony?), even Pau because of his past accomplishments. But I think that's a far cry from their being a "spirit animal." Literally nobody on this team fills that role. (You even point out that LMA doesn't know what it takes to earn a championship and wear that mantle.) The team does, indeed, need a contented and committed Kawhi to be anything other than an also-ran. But they need a "spirit animal" perhaps even more - not only for the team's direction, but to relieve Kawhi of any responsibility beyond being a great player (assuming he will be physically able to deliver.)
I didn’t include Tony due to his own injury struggles this season. Missed many games and has been in a transitional stage, going through a period of adjustment in the bench. I do think Tony is declining in relevancy. Manu too but him still being relied on to close games and teammates talking so much about the grandpa Juice and other things make me think of all the old guys Manu is the most influential. He can’t carry a team anymore though. None of the old guys can.

I would much rather this be over with a happy ending where Kiwi comes back and ends up being who everyone wants him to be. They are what they are this season. We shall see what happens next.

[sasaint]

Tim was always going to command respect in the locker room like you said simply because he was the GOAT spur and he had the personality to lead along with physically being imposing just by being 7 feet. Tim was also a very smart guy he had a degree psychology and knew how to read people. All those things factored in made him a great leader. I'm not sure if you follow wrestling but I have always compared Duncan to the Undertaker. They have the same type of aura and presence . Ironically I have heard the Undertaker is Duncan's favorite wrestler of all time.

The spurs situation when it comes to leadership similar to what the Lakers and Celtics dealt with when they lost Magic and Bird to retirement. Just like in the Spur case both organization still had some key veteran guys left over from the title runs in Mchale,Parish,Worthy. McHale,Parish,Worthy all had the same types of problem in leading that Manu and Tony have in their current situation.

Haha! No, I don't follow wrestling. Probably the last wrestler I watched was Rapid Ricky Romero. You describe well some of the attributes that made Tim the GOAT, although I cannot speak to the Undertaker comparison. But your analogies with the Celtics and Lakers are pretty apt. (I am compelled to add that the Celt's predicament was exacerbated immeasurably by the death of Len Bias before he even joined the team.)

[SAGirl]

The spurs situation when it comes to leadership similar to what the Lakers and Celtics dealt with when they lost Magic and Bird to retirement. Just like in the Spur case both organization still had some key veteran guys left over from the title runs in Mchale,Parish,Worthy. McHale,Parish,Worthy all had the same types of problem in leading that Manu and Tony have in their current situation.
I wish I knew what you meant here.^ Inevitable decline?

[sasaint]

I didn’t include Tony due to his own injury struggles this season. Missed many games and has been in a transitional stage, going through a period of adjustment in the bench. I do think Tony is declining in relevancy. Manu too but him still being relied on to close games and teammates talking so much about the grandpa Juice and other things make me think of all the old guys Manu is the most influential. He can’t carry a team anymore though. None of the old guys can.

I would much rather this be over with a happy ending where Kiwi comes back and ends up being who everyone wants him to be. They are what they are this season. We shall see what happens next.

Manu giveth, and Manu taketh away, but I still respect his champion's heart, and I am occasionally still awed by his play. Clearly among the old guys he commands the most respect from the young guys, but that is not the same as commanding what the "spirit animal" commands.

I would amend your comment about Kawhi, though. Many fans want(ed) him to be the new Tim, the new "spirit animal." He won't. What we need is some other guy to fill that role. We need Kawhi to be the basketball machine he was before he was Zaza'ed.

[daslicer]

Haha! No, I don't follow wrestling. Probably the last wrestler I watched was Rapid Ricky Romero. You describe well some of the attributes that made Tim the GOAT, although I cannot speak to the Undertaker comparison. But your analogies with the Celtics and Lakers are pretty apt. (I am compelled to add that the Celt's predicament was exacerbated immeasurably by the death of Len Bias before he even joined the team.)

Go to 2:25 to see the Undertaker
lBr_Kz2MCrk

[daslicer]

I wish I knew what you meant here.^ Inevitable decline?

They were on the decline just like Manu,Parker and couldn't command the respect of the younger players like Bird and Magic could. They were also viewed as Bird and Magic's sidekicks much like Manu and Parker are viewed as Duncan's sidekicks by younger players.

[SAGirl]

They were on the decline just like Manu,Parker and couldn't command the respect of the younger players like Bird and Magic could. They were also viewed as Bird and Magic's sidekicks much like Manu and Parker are viewed as Duncan's sidekicks by younger players.
Got you. Thanks for clarifying.

[sasaint]

Go to 2:25 to see the Undertaker
lBr_Kz2MCrk

You and I are clearly from different generations. I don't see an iota of Tim in that clip. I thought Tim was genuine, and therefore a stark contrast to that staged theatricality. But if they seem comparable to you, you just see things differently than I. We both just know that nobody like that currently wears a Spurs uniform.

[duncan2k5]

kawhi not coming to some games has more to do with him rehabbing (pop said so himself) than anything else...additionally, if he WAS being reclusive, it would be because of how his teammates and management has been treating him...if i was injured and trying hard to come back...actually tried to by playing, and ended up in pain afterward (kawhi had a VERY clear limp), then these old farts wanted to jeopardize my career so they had a better chance of winning before they retire (very selfish), i wouldnt wanna be around them either...everyone on the spurs' side is handling this wrong...kawhi has literally nothing to gain from sitting out in a contract year...are u guys stupid?

[YGWHI]

I don't need you to illustrate what a cancer is.
Then you know Kawhi's not a cancer.


Props to you for figuring out why these black media sports analysts are allowed to get away with being biased because like you said their white bosses are making money off of this. Still doesn't take away from the fact they are biased and have their own agenda which just happens to coincide with the media's agenda of wanting Kawhi out of San Antonio and in a big market like LA. ESPN and these other big media outlets has a history of hiring these guys to spread their propaganda when it's profitable and then firing them when their racial bias becomes offensive and costs them money. They have even fired Stephen A Smith in the past because they found him too offensive when he wasn't generating money for them.

I was the first guy here saying there are other NBA PRs behind Woj's this year creating false rumors about Kawhi, and the Spurs too...Woj is white.


The difference between the max and the super max goes away once you factor in the endorsements Kawhi would receive in a big market in LA that he wouldn't receive in SA. I think it's unfortunate for a small market teams in the future that the super max might not be good enough to protect them from losing a star player to a market like NYC,LA due to the endorsement money those markets can provide.
A player would need like $25M deal per year from a endorsement to get the same supermax contract money. It's gonna happen.

[Ibleedslvrnblk]

Could you imagine if this was all some master plan to show that LMA still has it and they trade him away next year? That would be amazing

[SAGirl]

Could you imagine if this was all some master plan to show that LMA still has it and they trade him away next year? That would be amazing
keep dreaming...

[DPG21920]

kawhi not coming to some games has more to do with him rehabbing (pop said so himself) than anything else...additionally, if he WAS being reclusive, it would be because of how his teammates and management has been treating him...if i was injured and trying hard to come back...actually tried to by playing, and ended up in pain afterward (kawhi had a VERY clear limp), then these old farts wanted to jeopardize my career so they had a better chance of winning before they retire (very selfish), i wouldnt wanna be around them either...everyone on the spurs' side is handling this wrong...kawhi has literally nothing to gain from sitting out in a contract year...are u guys stupid?

LMAO the way his teammates are treating him :lol

Kawhi is handling this wrong. SA has been amazingly gracious shielding Kawhi from having to answer for his actions/absence along with being patient.