Betsy DeVos on why schools are performing worse under her policies

[RandomGuy]

Devos continues to serve up a heaping helping of incompetence, self-dealing, and cronyism. Icky.



Education Secretary Betsy DeVos had a rough go with Lesley Stahl of 60 Minutes when she was confronted over the fact that schools in her home state of Michigan have performed worse under policies she’s championed.

“In places where there is a lot of choice that’s been introduced, Florida for example, the studies show that where there’s a large number of students that opt to go to a different school or different schools, the traditional public schools actually, the results get better as well,” DeVos told Stahl.

Stahl then asked if DeVos’s example applied to her home state. “Have the public schools in Michigan gotten better?”

“I don’t know, overall, I can’t say overall that they have all gotten better,” Devos replied, before Stahl reminded her that school across the state are faltering.

DeVos then tried to claim that there are individual “pockets” in Michigan that are “doing well,” but Stahl still wasn’t buying it.

“But your argument, that if you take funds away the schools will get better, is not working in Michigan where you had a huge impact and influence over the school system here,” Stahl declared.

DeVos tried to pivot to how “individual” students are performing instead of focusing on the districts as a whole, suggesting that district performance is somehow unrelated to how students themselves perform. “Schools are made up of individual students attending them,” she said before conceding that schools in Michigan “need to do better.”

“Have you seen the really bad schools?” Stahl asked. “Maybe try to find to figure out what they’re doing?”

DeVos stuttered before replying, “I have not intentionally visited schools that are underperforming.

http://deadstate.org/leslie-stahl-confronts-betsy-devos-on-why-schools-are-performing-worse-under-her-policies/

[spurraider21]

great new thread for March 11 interview

[rmt]

The reason schools are doing better in Miami Dade County is not because of the Superintendent Carvalho or public schools - it is because of the proliferation of charter schools. They are given the same amount for each child but get to spend as they see fit - meaning more pay for the teachers, incentivizing them for student performance and spending efficiently. I laugh at the hurrah/pep rally display (when Super was offered that job in NY and declined), etc of our 4th largest in the nation district but the truth is that even here - when given a choice (thank you Rick Scott), most who work here choose to send their kids to charter schools.

[Pavlov]

The reason schools are doing better in Miami Dade County is not because of the Superintendent Carvalho or public schools - it is because of the proliferation of charter schools. They are given the same amount for each child but get to spend as they see fit - meaning more pay for the teachers, incentivizing them for student performance and spending efficiently. I laugh at the hurrah/pep rally display (when Super was offered that job in NY and declined), etc of our 4th largest in the nation district but the truth is that even here - when given a choice (thank you Rick Scott), most who work here choose to send their kids to charter schools.How much more are teachers paid in charter schools?

[rmt]

How much more are teachers paid in charter schools?

At our school, it's a merit/negotiable system - I would guess that a starting AP Physics teacher (rare) is paid more than a starting Spanish teacher (who would probably be quite common here in Miami). It is not like the public schools where it doesn't matter if you are a good or bad teacher, you get paid the same (depending on number of years/pay scale). Guess where the good teachers flock to.

They also do things like (3 year) teacher exchange program from Spain. Ds' pre-calc teacher is a chem engineer who is working on his PhD in Spain. His chem teacher is also in that program. I assume they get them for cheap (Spain's economy being what it is) - although both gave ds a 3 in effort - thinking that was the highest score :-) And of course, their not so great English is not a problem in this school.

[Pavlov]

At our school, it's a merit/negotiable system - I would guess that a starting AP Physics teacher (rare) is paid more than a starting Spanish teacher (who would probably be quite common here in Miami). It is not like the public schools where it doesn't matter if you are a good or bad teacher, you get paid the same (depending on number of years/pay scale). Guess where the good teachers flock to.

They also do things like (3 year) teacher exchange program from Spain. Ds' pre-calc teacher is a chem engineer who is working on his PhD in Spain. His chem teacher is also in that program. I assume they get them for cheap (Spain's economy being what it is) - although both gave ds a 3 in effort - thinking that was the highest score :-) And of course, their not so great English is not a problem in this school.I see precisely no numbers.

[rmt]

I see precisely no numbers.

You can google the public school numbers yourself - it's public record.

[Pavlov]

You can google the public school numbers yourself - it's public record.You made the claim.

How much more are they paid?

[Blake]

At our school, it's a merit/negotiable system - I would guess....

Stopped reading here

[Blake]

You can google the public school numbers yourself - it's public record.

Damn I hate when people talk out of their ass and then expect you to disprove their BS.

annoying as fuck

[boutons_deux]

Evidence that MIA charter schools are out-performing public schools?

[rmt]

What don't you understand about MERIT/NEGOTIABLE system in charter school? Public school teacher salaries are a matter of public record.

[Pavlov]

What don't you understand about MERIT/NEGOTIABLE system in charter school? Public school teacher salaries are a matter of public record.I understand I have seen no numbers at all to back up your claim.

[RandomGuy]

Evidence that MIA charter schools are out-performing public schools?

Charter schools have self-selected students all the time.

Easy to outperform other schools if you can boot troublemakers.

[monosylab1k]

You can google the public school numbers yourself - it's public record.

:lmao what is it with Conservatives on this board making bullshit claims and refusing to back them up?

[RandomGuy]

The reason schools are doing better in Miami Dade County ... is because of the proliferation of charter schools.

Interesting claim.

Are you familiar with the post hoc propter hoc fallacy? Does that fallacy form fit your statement?

[rmt]

Interesting claim.

Are you familiar with the post hoc propter hoc fallacy? Does that fallacy form fit your statement?

No, I am not familiar with whatever that is. I know as a well-informed parent with fellow concerned (parent) friends and co-workers who deals with public school data all day long.

[Blake]

Interesting claim.

Are you familiar with the post hoc propter hoc fallacy? Does that fallacy form fit your statement?

You can Google it yourself

[rmt]

The battle brewing is trying to move off the mainframe but not being able to force charter schools to pay for vendors' licensing fees.

[rmt]

You can Google it yourself

I don't care to know what it is.

[Pavlov]

The battle brewing is trying to move off the mainframe but not being able to force charter schools to pay for vendors' licensing fees.Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand here comes the subject change!

[rmt]

Having choice of school (which Rick Scott signed into Florida law) is a good thing. One can choose from magnet, virtual, charter, homeschooling, public school in neighborhood, or grandparents'/relatives' neighborhood or on the way/near work. Some research and networking will (IMHO) yield better schools for our kids than being STUCK in some poor-performing neighborhood school. But some of you are so married to the public school/teachers' union system - well, good luck with that with your kids. I firmly believe that the money should follow the student.

[Pavlov]

Having choice of school (which Rick Scott signed into Florida law) is a good thing. One can choose from magnet, virtual, charter, homeschooling, public school in neighborhood, or grandparents'/relatives' neighborhood or on the way/near work. Some research and networking will (IMHO) yield better schools for our kids than being STUCK in some poor-performing neighborhood school. But some of you are so married to the public school/teachers' union system - well, good luck with that with your kids. I firmly believe that the money should follow the student.Where are those numbers showing charter school teachers are paid more?

[Blake]

I don't care to know what it is.

I know. You'd rather talk directly out of your ass

[Winehole23]

DeVos attempt to revoke Obama era student debt relief slapped down as illegal, DOE forced to implement it:


A federal judge in September ruled that DeVos' efforts to stop the 2016 “borrower defense” regulations from taking effect was illegal. And in October, the same judge rejected a bid by for-profit colleges to immediately stop the regulations, clearing the way for them to take effect.


Education Department officials said Thursday that they will cancel the loans of about 15,000 borrowers who qualified for “closed school” loan discharges but who haven’t yet applied for that benefit. Those student loans total approximately $150 million.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/13/betsy-devos-student-loans-1063442

[DMX7]

We might be better off abolishing the whole department than keeping it with her in charge.

[CosmicCowboy]

What is the blue team argument against charter schools?

[boutons_deux]

for-profit charter schools have been numerous enough and around long enough to provide a mountain of evidence that they don't perform any better than public schools, often much worse, and lot of them have gone bankrupt, screwing the kids in charter schools, while sucking taxpayer $$$ from public schools

teacher pay is shittier, teachers are shittier, "pay peanuts, get monkeys"

First charter school teacher strike suspended after union wins concessions in Chicago

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2018/12/11/first-charter-school-teacher-strike-suspended-after-union-wins-concessions-chicago/?utm_term=.35100131c884

Billionaires are pushing for-profit charter schools, which is the dead giveaway that they suck, are MEANT to suck, meant to damage public schools and public school teacher benefits.

Just another way the oligarchy tries amass more Capital by fleecing public funds, and keeping people dumbed down.

If we know how to make charter public schools excel, then why can we make non-charter schools excel?

As with every fucking thing in America, it's all about $$$, not about non-$$$ outcomes or damage.

[CosmicCowboy]

Actually I was asking for a response from a rational poster.

[CosmicCowboy]

If it doesn't work why are public schools following the charter/magnet school model?

[Blake]

If it doesn't work why are public schools following the charter/magnet school model?

No link plus fallacy

Very rational

[ElNono]

I don't particularly have a problem with charter/magnet schools, however, I'm also unaware that they address an actual problem?

Magnet schools specifically were created to address racial segregation problems, although as that has diminished, they've focused on catering to specialization (which, IMO, it's not a bad thing). I wouldn't actually mind this converted to full blown trade schools.

Charter schools go to the premise that a privately run enterprise will be more efficient than a government run one, especially with looser regulations, and, again, I'm not sure that premise really holds true when the actual funding come from government. While it's true that this new middle man has an incentive to produce good academic results in order to continue to have a gravy train, it's still a gravy train, and an additional layer that effectively make the efficiency argument very debatable.

[CosmicCowboy]

No link plus fallacy

Very rational

Off the top of my head SAISD has Fox Tech 3000 kids in magnet/charter programs from 4th grade to 12th. NEISD and NISD all have magnet/charter programs. Blake you just showed your stupid again.

[Blake]

Lol "off the top of my head"

[CosmicCowboy]

Lol "off the top of my head"

Prove me wrong, dumbass.

[Blake]

Prove me wrong, dumbass.

No, I'll just say you're probably wrong and leave it there.

[CosmicCowboy]

No, I'll just say you're probably wrong and leave it there.

:lmao

You really are an idiot.

[Blake]

:lmao

You really are an idiot.

No, you are.

[CosmicCowboy]

No, you are.

You don't believe the local public schools have their own charter/magnet schools? Hell, my daughter went to one of NEISDs (International School of the Americas). They do exist, bozo.

[Blake]

You don't believe the local public schools have their own charter/magnet schools? Hell, my daughter went to one of NEISDs 10 years ago (International School of the Americas). They do exist, bozo.

Lol "charter/magnet"

There's no serious discussion here until you can get the facts and terminology straight, idiot.

[CosmicCowboy]

Look up the definition of charter school, idiot. It's a public school the kids go to by choice at no cost to them. Magnet schools qualify under the broader definition.

[Blake]

Look up the definition of charter school, idiot. It's a public school the kids go to by choice at no cost to them. Magnet schools qualify under the broader definition.

NEISD doesn't have the charter schools you're talking about. They have magnet schools.

Now you're gonna try to argue about these details to win the internet instead of going back to your original question/argument.

You're the idiot

[CosmicCowboy]

NEISD doesn't have the charter schools you're talking about. They have magnet schools.

Now you're gonna try to argue about these details to win the internet instead of going back to your original question/argument.

You're the idiot

You appear to be the one trying to win the internet.

[Blake]

You appear to be the one trying to win the internet.

Uh huh

[DMX7]

Profiteering education at tax payer expense is utterly shameless.

[boutons_deux]

Profiteering education at tax payer expense is utterly shameless.

billionaires have no shame, no ethics, no morals when amassing Capital is the goal

[spurraider21]

What is the blue team argument against charter schools?
because jon oliver had an episode about them

[boutons_deux]

Fed up and not taking it anymore

Thousands of LAUSD teachers march downtown as union moves closer to calling first strike in nearly 30 years

possible strike that L.A. educators have threatened if the district doesn’t meet demands that include

retroactive raises,

smaller class sizes and

more nurses and counselors.

“Amidst the wealth of Los Angeles, we should not have class sizes of 45 students,”

Teachers in L.A. Unified earn $44,000 to $86,000 a year depending on their education and experience

L.A. Unified says the average teacher salary is $75,000, which reflects the district’s older, more experienced workforce.

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-teachers-march-20181215-story.html#nws=mcnewsletter (https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-teachers-march-20181215-story.html#nws=mcnewsletter)

and billionaires have been pushing hard to elect school managers that are pro-charter school


=======================

As always, CA takes the national lead

California to End For-Profit Charter Schools

https://lasentinel.net/california-to-end-for-profit-charter-schools.html

[rmt]

In Florida, charter schools are privatively-run, publicly funded (by the state - not at county level). Miami-Dade County had on its ballot this past November a property tax raise for teachers' salary and more security. MDCPS heavily promoted it and NEGLECTED to inform parents that this money would not be going to charter schools (of which 20% of the counties' students attend).

As a parent, I find my ds' charter school to be very flexible and willing to put resources toward students' academics (instead of administrative costs like Facebook Workplace - which has got to be the most useless (and no doubt - expensive) software ever. For example, ds' college prep teacher was so impressed by ds' SAT prep books that he (in November) requested and was granted copies of these prep books (changed curriculum mid-semester). That would never happen in a public school which are as slow as molasses and very difficult to institute ANY change. Even the administrators send their kids to charter schools - just more efficient, flexible, pays their teachers more (but no pension). The result is simply a better product. One of the most sought-after charter schools is Archimedean charters - K-12 - my dd's best friend attended from its beginnings as a fledging program out of FIU about 17 years ago - the competition is so fierce that even sibling advantage doesn't always get you in.

I believe the money should follow the student - much like Canada and Finland? where student/parent can choose Catholic school, Jewish school, public, etc. Public school spends too much money on retiree health benefits and pensions - before the students. But, as always, buyer beware - check out schools/score/other parents before deciding on where to send your kids. How's that for choice - unlike the traditional public school where you are bound by geographic boundaries.

BTW, I highly recommend the following for SAT prep:

https://www.amazon.com/College-Pandas-SAT-Math-Advanced/dp/0989496422/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1545088266&sr=8-3&keywords=panda+sat

https://www.amazon.com/College-Pandas-SAT-Writing-Advanced/dp/098949649X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1545088266&sr=8-2&keywords=panda+sat

[boutons_deux]

"privatively-run, publicly funded"

... with nearly their entire budgets out-sourced to for-profit companies

[spurraider21]

there's no one size fits all answer. granada high is one of the best schools in all of LAUSD and its a charter school

[rmt]

"privatively-run, publicly funded"

... with nearly their entire budgets out-sourced to for-profit companies




Charters/magnets offer students/parents CHOICE as opposed to being stuck in some bad school just because one lives within its boundaries. How can you be against that? Just because they compete against your almighty government schools? In my opinion, if schools don't produce good results, the natural consequence should be that students go elsewhere and those schools (whether publicly or privately run) should shut down.

[boutons_deux]

...

[rmt]

National Enquirer Insider Says Ivanka Trump Engaged In Criminal Activity

Trump Officials Plan to Rescind Obama-Era School Discipline Policies

The Trump administration is planning to roll back Obama-era :lol policies

aimed at ensuring that minority children are not unfairly disciplined,

arguing that the

efforts have eased up on punishment and

contributed to rising violence in the nation’s schools, :lol

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/17/us/politics/trump-school-discipline.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Red meat thrown to White Male Nationalist racist animals


"delaying an Obama-era rule to prevent disproportionate numbers of minority children from being funneled into special education classes."

Don't you think that maybe these minority children might BENEFIT by being in these special education classes (and probably taught by teachers with specialized knowledge). As far as I know, there are procedural steps that evaluate if classes are needed - if admitted, there are periodic testing and review for eventual dismissal from programs. To deny admittance because of a perceived stigma or having numbers "look" good may be doing minority kids a disservice.

[boutons_deux]

National Enquirer Insider Says Ivanka Trump Engaged In Criminal Activity

Trump Officials Plan to Rescind Obama-Era School Discipline Policies

The Trump administration is planning to roll back Obama-era :lol policies

aimed at ensuring that minority children are not unfairly disciplined,

arguing that the

efforts have eased up on punishment and

contributed to rising violence in the nation’s schools, :lol

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/17/us/politics/trump-school-discipline.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Red meat thrown to White Male Nationalist racist animals

[Nbadan]

"delaying an Obama-era rule to prevent disproportionate numbers of minority children from being funneled into special education classes."

Don't you think that maybe these minority children might BENEFIT by being in these special education classes (and probably taught by teachers with specialized knowledge). As far as I know, there are procedural steps that evaluate if classes are needed - if admitted, there are periodic testing and review for eventual dismissal from programs. To deny admittance because of a perceived stigma or having numbers "look" good may be doing minority kids a disservice.

Nah....kids who are put into the special ed program are rarely exited from the program. Not only that, they get a blue diploma upon graduation...

[boutons_deux]

The Texas Legislature took away $118 million in pre-K funding. Now districts are scrambling.
https://www.texastribune.org/2018/03/27/texas-schools-lost-pre-k-funding-districts-scrambling/

Pre-K provides most benefits to the most needy kids, eg, blacks and browns, but racist shithole so-called Christian TX always screws non-whites.

and TX, along with other red/slave states, ranks near the bottom in educational spending per student

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html

pay peanuts, get monkeys

[boutons_deux]

10 Charter Schools Fail State Standards as Most Charter Districts Improve

In most cases, local charter school districts improved year-over-year.

However,

five charter districts – including KIPP Texas and Great Hearts Texas, which last year operated a total of 10 campuses in San Antonio – received lower grades than in the previous year.

Great Hearts Texas fell from an A to a B, while KIPP Texas got a B for the second year in a row.

Heritage Academy,
School of Science and Technology, and
Southwest Preparatory School

also were graded lower this year.

Southwest Preparatory had the most dramatic stumble, dropping two letter grades from a B to a D.

Overall, 22 of the state’s 179 charter districts got Ds and eight got Fs.

https://therivardreport.com/10-charter-schools-fail-state-standards-as-most-charter-districts-improve/?utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter-weekly&utm_content=editorial&utm_term=education&utm_source=Rivard+Report&utm_campaign=57ccdab475-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_12_21_08_41_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1576c62124-57ccdab475-84683437&mc_cid=57ccdab475&mc_eid=54a5432c74

hard evidence that charter schools, esp for-profit charter schools, are no better than public schools, and in many case, MUCH worse.