Why We Have to be Cautious in Transforming Society

[Nathan89]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiRRXDZ3cOE

[Nathan89]

A reasonable perspective on immigration and why we need to control it.

[monosylab1k]

Another youtube video you didn’t watch

[Nathan89]

I watch every video. If you ask me a question that doesn't make sense then you'll get me asking for you to be more specific.

Continue with your nonsense that you don't even believe though.

[Chris]

Another youtube video you didn’t watch

Typical projection from the Left. If they can't take the time to watch it then you didn't. So predictable and trite.

[Nathan89]

Typical projection from the Left. If they can't take the time to watch it then you didn't. So predictable and trite.

Derailing the topic is easier than staring at your own idiocy.

[Pavlov]

Who says borders are unreasonable?

[Nathan89]

People going to the end of the earth to protect illegals and not wanting to do shit to stop more coming into this country.

[Pavlov]

People going to the end of the earth to protect illegals and not wanting to do shit to stop more coming into this country.Who says borders are unreasonable?

[Chris]

Derailing the topic is easier than staring at your own idiocy.

Absolutely.

[Nathan89]

Who says borders are unreasonable?

The left has vilified the very idea of it. They set up sanctuary cities to protect them. They've brainwashed their people to think it's a human right to come into this country and take advantage of our tax dollars.

If it's not unreasonable then surely the left is ready to do something to prevent illegals, right?

[monosylab1k]

Typical projection from the Left. If they can't take the time to watch it then you didn't. So predictable and trite.

:lmao he already got called out for making a thread and not watching the video, you dipshit.

[AaronY]

Derailing the topic is easier than staring at your own idiocy.
Don't worry I'm sure the next shitty thread you start today will go much better

[Nathan89]

"called out" :lmao

[Nathan89]

Me- Be specific because your comment doesn't make sense with what I saw in the video.

Idiot- You didn't watch the video.:lol

[Chris]

:lmao he already got called out for making a thread and not watching the video, you dipshit.


"called out" :lmao

Poor fella gets confused easily. :lol

[ElNono]

The problem with these videos is that they don't ignite a conversation, they're just talking points of a single view that can't answer back.

It would be much more engaging to get OP's personal thoughts on the matter, in his own words, developed by his careful thinking, and then presented, and debated.

[Chris]

The problem with these videos is that they don't ignite a conversation, they're just talking points of a single view that can't answer back.

It would be much more engaging to get OP's personal thoughts on the matter, in his own words, developed by his careful thinking, and then presented, and debated.

Yeah that doesn't happen here. I don't know if you've noticed but the Left on this board consists of trolls and sock accounts.
They also have it to make it personal when they are losing the debate inevitably squashing any kind of civil discourse. The political forum is nothing more than a game of Gotcha.

[Pavlov]

The left has vilified the very idea of it. They set up sanctuary cities to protect them. They've brainwashed their people to think it's a human right to come into this country and take advantage of our tax dollars.

If it's not unreasonable then surely the left is ready to do something to prevent illegals, right?So no one actually said borders are unreasonable.

Thanks.

Your video is a straw man argument.

[Nathan89]

The problem with these videos is that they don't ignite a conversation, they're just talking points of a single view that can't answer back.

It would be much more engaging to get OP's personal thoughts on the matter, in his own words, developed by his careful thinking, and then presented, and debated.

Only to be followed with some frivolous question that ignores all reality. I mean just look at the first comment by mono. Nobody actually believes that but it's frivolous remark that he was compelled to make. Not exactly the ecosystem that encourage one to put substantial effort into a thread. So I just post things that I think are interesting. A conversation can still happen from that point.

[Spurminator]

Next thread:
Why White Genocide is a Bad Idea

[spurraider21]

OP should make a video called "Why We Have to be Cautious in Transforming our Entire World View and Politics in a One Year Span"

[Expert]

First we need to agree that the term "illegals" is referring, in large part, to people who otherwise have done nothing to be considered a threat to the public. That if we were born in the squalor they were, we'd probably be here illegally as well. Once we do that, we need to agree that these are human beings, not pieces on a chess board separated by imaginary lines.

Ok, now we've done that, we need to decide if the plight of people from other countries, even bordering ones, are more important than our own. We need to prioritize our own issues. Getting new computers in your local school could be more important to you than the fact that several families who weren't born here could perish in the desert while trying to get here so they can survive. We need to find a way to make coming to the US easier. We need to put our resources in immigration, not against it. We need to not equate all immigration with illegal immigration, and not equate illegal immigration with home intruders.

[koriwhat]

First we need to agree that the term "illegals" is referring, in large part, to people who otherwise have done nothing to be considered a threat to the public. That if we were born in the squalor they were, we'd probably be here illegally as well. Once we do that, we need to agree that these are human beings, not pieces on a chess board separated by imaginary lines.

Ok, now we've done that, we need to decide if the plight of people from other countries, even bordering ones, are more important than our own. We need to prioritize our own issues. Getting new computers in your local school could be more important to you than the fact that several families who weren't born here could perish in the desert while trying to get here so they can survive. We need to find a way to make coming to the US easier. We need to put our resources in immigration, not against it. We need to not equate all immigration with illegal immigration, and not equate illegal immigration with home intruders.

i'd like to think of it more like... they should revolt vs their own gov's and change their countries for the better instead of camping out in ours. create the change, be the change.

we have too many people here as it is and feelings don't need to get involved in this issue. yeah it's sad human lives are at stake trying to cross the border but why is that our problem?

[ElNono]

Yeah that doesn't happen here. I don't know if you've noticed but the Left on this board consists of trolls and sock accounts.
They also have it to make it personal when they are losing the debate inevitably squashing any kind of civil discourse. The political forum is nothing more than a game of Gotcha.

I don't think the echo chamber is circumscribed to 'the left' in here, tbh...

[ElNono]

Only to be followed with some frivolous question that ignores all reality. I mean just look at the first comment by mono. Nobody actually believes that but it's frivolous remark that he was compelled to make. Not exactly the ecosystem that encourage one to put substantial effort into a thread. So I just post things that I think are interesting. A conversation can still happen from that point.

I still have no idea what you think about the topic. I mean, now I know you find it interesting.

I see DMC at least stepped up to the plate, which is good!

[ElNono]

First we need to agree that the term "illegals" is referring, in large part, to people who otherwise have done nothing to be considered a threat to the public. That if we were born in the squalor they were, we'd probably be here illegally as well. Once we do that, we need to agree that these are human beings, not pieces on a chess board separated by imaginary lines.

Ok, now we've done that, we need to decide if the plight of people from other countries, even bordering ones, are more important than our own. We need to prioritize our own issues. Getting new computers in your local school could be more important to you than the fact that several families who weren't born here could perish in the desert while trying to get here so they can survive. We need to find a way to make coming to the US easier. We need to put our resources in immigration, not against it. We need to not equate all immigration with illegal immigration, and not equate illegal immigration with home intruders.

There's also natsec implications with border crossing, tbh... this is a complex topic that needs engagement... unfortunately simple solutions like 'build a wall!' are not the answer. There really is no silver bullet here.

This is, again, an area where better oversight, clear policy need to be guided by better understanding of the economic impact, national security, birth rates, etc.

[Chris]

Twitter CEO says we all need to be more like California


983103421191479297

[ElNono]

i'd like to think of it more like... they should revolt vs their own gov's and change their countries for the better instead of camping out in ours. create the change, be the change.

we have too many people here as it is and feelings don't need to get involved in this issue. yeah it's sad human lives are at stake trying to cross the border but why is that our problem?

A lot of these countries are democracies and capitalist (ie: Honduras)... there's nothing to revolt against. There is pervasive corruption in leadership, true, but that's also cultural at this point.

They're just poor and small countries, and mostly are used as the cheap labor/dumpster of the industrialized world.

Lack of opportunity is the main motivator in a lot of cases.

[Nathan89]

I still have no idea what you think about the topic. I mean, now I know you find it interesting.

I see DMC at least stepped up to the plate, which is good!

The second post should give you some idea on what I think.

[ElNono]

Twitter CEO says we all need to be more like California

983103421191479297

Here's the last part of the series, which was linked in the tweet:

https://medium.com/s/state-of-the-future/the-great-lesson-of-california-in-americas-new-civil-war-e52e2861f30

[ElNono]

The second post should give you some idea on what I think.

But I don't. That's commentary on the video, not what *you* think.

[Spurminator]

Twitter CEO says we all need to be more like California


983103421191479297

Boycott Twitter!

[ElNono]

Actually, it's a great read indeed. You might not agree with the conclusions drawn, but the historical background of the current polarization makes complete sense, tbh.

[koriwhat]

Boycott Twitter!

:tu fuck jack the free speech oppressing satanist.

[Nathan89]

First we need to agree that the term "illegals" is referring, in large part, to people who otherwise have done nothing to be considered a threat to the public. That if we were born in the squalor they were, we'd probably be here illegally as well. Once we do that, we need to agree that these are human beings, not pieces on a chess board separated by imaginary lines.

Ok, now we've done that, we need to decide if the plight of people from other countries, even bordering ones, are more important than our own. We need to prioritize our own issues. Getting new computers in your local school could be more important to you than the fact that several families who weren't born here could perish in the desert while trying to get here so they can survive. We need to find a way to make coming to the US easier. We need to put our resources in immigration, not against it. We need to not equate all immigration with illegal immigration, and not equate illegal immigration with home intruders.

That's irrelevant. If that's a major factor then we should just go ahead and welcome billions of people. Obviously I can see why they would want to come over here. I can also see why a homeless person would want to sleep in my house. I still don't think it's acceptable for them to break in. We have a legal process for immigration.

Yeah, I've decided and the plight of our own citizens is more important than citizens from other countries. They are capable of improving their own countries. Sure it's a slow process but that's a process that every country needs to go through. Yeah, just like all the luxuries in your life is more important than providing for hundreds of people in Africa.

Nobody equates all immigration with illegal immigration. Literally nobody. Illegal immigration is everyone that doesn't go through the legal process.

There is significant benefit to the rest of the world to making America the best country possible. Welcoming hoards of people that don't even learn the language, just take advantage of the welfare state, just want to bring their own country into this country and not integrate with what has made this country successful is not going to help us.

In an era of automation and welfare you simply can't let whoever wants to come over here just come. We should recognize that they can make a difference in their country or the process will just persist forever. We already provide immense charity to the world. We create great innovations that improve the world. That is the process in which we should help the world not open our boarders to anyone that wants to come here. Long term that just doesn't help as many people.

[Nathan89]

There's also natsec implications with border crossing, tbh... this is a complex topic that needs engagement... unfortunately simple solutions like 'build a wall!' are not the answer. There really is no silver bullet here.

This is, again, an area where better oversight, clear policy need to be guided by better understanding of the economic impact, national security, birth rates, etc.

We can start with getting rid of anchor babies, cracking down on employers, and not letting them free load the system.

[Nathan89]

But I don't. That's commentary on the video, not what *you* think.

Well I think this perceptive is "reasonable" like I stated.

[ElNono]

That's irrelevant. If that's a major factor then we should just go ahead and welcome billions of people. Obviously I can see why they would want to come over here. I can also see why a homeless person would want to sleep in my house. I still don't think it's acceptable for them to break in. We have a legal process for immigration.

Yeah, I've decided and the plight of our own citizens is more important than citizens from other countries. They are capable of improving their own countries. Sure it's a slow process but that's a process that every country needs to go through. Yeah, just like all the luxuries in your life is more important than providing for hundreds of people in Africa.

Nobody equates all immigration with illegal immigration. Literally nobody. Illegal immigration is everyone that doesn't go through the legal process.

There is significant benefit to the rest of the world to making America the best country possible. Welcoming hoards of people that don't even learn the language, just take advantage of the welfare state, just want to bring their own country into this country and not integrate with what has made this country successful is not going to help us.

In an era of automation and welfare you simply can't let whoever wants to come over here just come. We should recognize that they can make a difference in their country or the process will just persist forever. We already provide immense charity to the world. We create great innovations that improve the world. That is the process in which we should help the world not open our boarders to anyone that wants to come here. Long term that just doesn't help as many people.

This is what I'm talking about!

I agree that illegal immigration is not the answer, even if for different reasons. Realistically speaking, some of the US Economy thrives on the low-wage, temporary workers, and in that case what's going to need to happen is to sort those cases out.

The biggest problem is that ending illegal immigration, much like the drug trade, is not a solvable problem overnight. It's probably even more complicated than the drug trade, in the sense that a lot of illegal stays stem from originally legal visitors.

On the other hand, closing that area can severely impact local economies that rely on tourism, like Florida, New York, etc.

I still think attacking this through better oversight on employers is probably the right way to go.

[Nathan89]

A lot of these countries are democracies and capitalist (ie: Honduras)... there's nothing to revolt against. There is pervasive corruption in leadership, true, but that's also cultural at this point.

They're just poor and small countries, and mostly are used as the cheap labor/dumpster of the industrialized world.

Lack of opportunity is the main motivator in a lot of cases.

Yeah, we should let hoards of people with the culture of corruption come into the US at free will. Thanks for outlining the problem of not controlling the boarder. And if these are the people that lack that culture then we are doing a disservice to their country by allowing them to come here. They are part of the solution for their country. Leaving them their leads to the best outcome long term.

[ElNono]

We can start with getting rid of anchor babies, cracking down on employers, and not letting them free load the system.

Anchor babies is really an oversight problem again. If you can't stop the illegal from coming in, after that, you're screwed.

The main reason is the same we spout for the 2nd Amendment: it would take a Constitutional amendment to modify the 14th Amendment, and in the current political climate, it's simply not viable.

Agree about employers though, as I pointed out earlier.

[koriwhat]

Actually, it's a great read indeed. You might not agree with the conclusions drawn, but the historical background of the current polarization makes complete sense, tbh.

lmao

"Life on the Other Side of Democratic One-Party Rule

There is life on the other side of that Republican political collapse. There is a clear way forward in the land of Democratic, progressive supermajorities. California is thriving right now, the economy is booming, state government budgets are setting aside surpluses, and the public is happy with its political leaders (as we have laid out in other articles in this series). California is leading the world in technological innovation and creative policies to counter climate change."

ATX is going to be a shithole soon enough too. calilosers bringing not only high prices to residences but also skidrow to 6th street. fuck california!

as well, mr. peter leyden sounds like he has the whole DNC in his throat. hope he has a great gag reflex.

[ElNono]

Yeah, we should let hoards of people with the culture of corruption come into the US at free will. Thanks for outlining the problem of not controlling the boarder. And if these are the people that lack that culture then we are doing a disservice to their country by allowing them to come here. They are part of the solution for their country. Leaving them their leads to the best outcome long term.

I didn't say we should let anybody in, I'm trying to explain where the plight comes from.

It's easy to sit in the big couch and theorize about how people can wait 60+ years for their government/country to get better/change.

In the real world, people have more immediate needs: want to send their kids to the actual local country college, but can't afford to do so, etc.

One could just pretend this stuff doesn't happen, but they do. People that migrate ain't doing it generally for adventure. They're normally addressing some specific needs.

[Nathan89]

Anchor babies is really an oversight problem again. If you can't stop the illegal from coming in, after that, you're screwed.

The main reason is the same we spout for the 2nd Amendment: it would take a Constitutional amendment to modify the 14th Amendment, and in the current political climate, it's simply not viable.

Agree about employers though, as I pointed out earlier.

Anchor babies is a motivation for illegal immigration. If you get rid of it there will be less of it.

Of course it's not likely at the moment. Dems want them future voters as well as a notch to win the current Hispanic vote.

[ElNono]

lmao

"Life on the Other Side of Democratic One-Party Rule

There is life on the other side of that Republican political collapse. There is a clear way forward in the land of Democratic, progressive supermajorities. California is thriving right now, the economy is booming, state government budgets are setting aside surpluses, and the public is happy with its political leaders (as we have laid out in other articles in this series). California is leading the world in technological innovation and creative policies to counter climate change."

ATX is going to be a shithole soon enough too. calilosers bringing not only high prices to residences but also skidrow to 6th street. fuck california!

as well, mr. peter leyden sounds like he has the whole DNC in his throat. hope he has a great gag reflex.

He's completely correct about the polarization though... we can disagree about whether the country is ready to go California-style or not (and most southerners will probably disagree) as he mentions, but the historical context about the 1930's and polarization back then is actually interesting and no less true.

Political climate has become very toxic, and the gap and vitriol between left and right is only getting wider. At some point, something gotta give.

[ElNono]

Anchor babies is a motivation for illegal immigration. If you get rid of it there will be less of it.

Of course it's not likely at the moment. Dems want them future voters as well as a notch to win the current Hispanic vote.

Can't even clear Obamacare, and you want to modify the Constitution? Yeah, it's not happening. But there's other ways to address it.

[Nathan89]

I didn't say we should let anybody in, I'm trying to explain where the plight comes from.

It's easy to sit in the big couch and theorize about how people can wait 60+ years for their government/country to get better/change.

In the real world, people have more immediate needs: want to send their kids to the actual local country college, but can't afford to do so, etc.

One could just pretend this stuff doesn't happen, but they do. People that migrate ain't doing it generally for adventure. They're normally addressing some specific needs.

That's how the world operates. It takes generations of people fighting for progress to make things better for the long run. It's an unfortunate reality.

On the individual level I recognize what people want. The homeless people in your city want you to let them sleep in your house. The want of others is not your duty.

Sure, and billions of people have those same needs. Our country also has needs and that doesn't involve providing welfare to illegals. It involves a legal process to immigration. This safe guards our culture from becoming corrupt like you mentioned was the norm in those other countries. If you just accept enormous amounts of illegals you can fuck up the system for everybody.

[Nathan89]

Can't even clear Obamacare, and you want to modify the Constitution? Yeah, it's not happening. But there's other ways to address it.

It's a goal. I didn't say it was likely to happen at this very moment. A second go your perspective of anchor babies was an oversight issue. It is indeed a motivation for them coming here in the first place. Now one more American has a better perspective.

[koriwhat]

He's completely correct about the polarization though... we can disagree about whether the country is ready to go California-style or not (and most southerners will probably disagree) as he mentions, but the historical context about the 1930's and polarization back then is actually interesting and no less true.

Political climate has become very toxic, and the gap and vitriol between left and right is only getting wider. At some point, something gotta give.

the dude isn't interested in both sides obviously and thinks his side has taken us to the promised land. has he actually looked around california or is he just falling in line like most cult members?

here's to hoping him and those like him just stay out west and never venture past those fault lines which might one day sink them all.

[koriwhat]

That's how the world operates. It takes generations of people fighting for progress to make things better for the long run. It's an unfortunate reality.

On the individual level I recognize what people want. The homeless people in your city want you to let them sleep in your house. The want of others is not your duty.

Sure, and billions of people have those same needs. Our country also has needs and that doesn't involve providing welfare to illegals. It involves a legal process to immigration. This safe guards our culture from becoming corrupt like you mentioned was the norm in those other countries. If you just accept enormous amounts of illegals you can fuck up the system for everybody.

:tu

[ElNono]

That's how the world operates. It takes generations of people fighting for progress to make things better for the long run. It's an unfortunate reality.

On the individual level I recognize what people want. The homeless people in your city want you to let them sleep in your house. The want of others is not your duty.

Sure, and billions of people have those same needs. Our country also has needs and that doesn't involve providing welfare to illegals. It involves a legal process to immigration. This safe guards our culture from becoming corrupt like you mentioned was the norm in those other countries. If you just accept enormous amounts of illegals you can fuck up the system for everybody.

It's easy to say that now, but the US has been deeply involved in a lot of these countries, shaping both the economy and government, not always in hopes of improving the actual countries.

So, again, the discourse of what you want is understandable, but some people would like you to walk in their shoes and see what decisions you would make in those positions.

[ElNono]

the dude isn't interested in both sides obviously and thinks his side has taken us to the promised land. has he actually looked around california or is he just falling in line like most cult members?

here's to hoping him and those like him just stay out west and never venture past those fault lines which might one day sink them all.

Have you actually read the article, or just skimmed through it?

He draw parallels on the political climate in California in the 90's and the current federal political climate.

[Nathan89]

This is what I'm talking about!



Yeah, I use the video to start the conversation. If people disagree we can go from there.

[ElNono]

Yeah, I use the video to start the conversation. If people disagree we can go from there.

I didn't even watch the video, but your thoughts, I'm sure, are way more interesting.

I can't reply back or have a chat with Mr Peterson, tbh

[koriwhat]

It's easy to say that now, but the US has been deeply involved in a lot of these countries, shaping both the economy and government, not always in hopes of improving the actual countries.

So, again, the discourse of what you want is understandable, but some people would like you to walk in their shoes and see what decisions you would make in those positions.

we were lucky enough to be born here in the USA. sorry to all those who weren't but it isn't our responsibility to deal with them and allow them in this country. why is that so hard to understand?

i don't fault those that try to come here and those that are here illegally but go back to your own country and be the change you want to see. we aren't the world's savior and we have plenty of our own people struggling that need help first.

i don't give a fuck about their plight at all. sorry but not sorry.

as much as i wish everyone world wide prosperity the "progressives" utopia is nothing more than a trojan horse of sorts.

[BD24]

Lol at conservatives in here saying California is a mess. High salaries, a booming economy, the most gdp of any state, an amazing job market, fantastic companies headquartered there.

yea what a shit hole.

Lol at these same stupid asses saying Austin will be “shit” soon as well. Austin is an extremely nice city which shares many of the qualities listed above.

i would love to hear the definition of a great state/city from those on the right. Please enlighten me with what you are looking for

[koriwhat]

Have you actually read the article, or just skimmed through it?

He draw parallels on the political climate in California in the 90's and the current federal political climate.


I didn't even watch the video, but your thoughts, I'm sure, are way more interesting.

I can't reply back or have a chat with Mr Peterson, tbh

i watched nathan's video, because i like peterson, and i also read the whole article you linked to.

[Nathan89]

Lol at conservatives in here saying California is a mess. High salaries, a booming economy, the most gdp of any state, an amazing job market, fantastic companies headquartered there.



That has nothing to do with illegals.

[BD24]

That has nothing to do with illegals.
So why is California a mess?

what makes a great state/city in your opinion?

[ElNono]

we were lucky enough to be born here in the USA. sorry to all those who weren't but it isn't our responsibility to deal with them and allow them in this country. why is that so hard to understand?

i don't fault those that try to come here and those that are here illegally but go back to your own country and be the change you want to see. we aren't the world's savior and we have plenty of our own people struggling that need help first.

i don't give a fuck about their plight at all. sorry but not sorry.

as much as i wish everyone world wide prosperity the "progressives" utopia is nothing more than a trojan horse of sorts.

I wasn't born in the US.

Your post illustrates the disconnect though, but I'm not faulting you.

As I've learned through the years, the average American is fairly disconnected from what their government does overseas, unless a war happens, etc.

I've found most Americans to be largely compassionate and good people, regardless of political leaning. That's why I'm not faulting them, there's just part of the story they don't know about.

[ElNono]

i watched nathan's video, because i like peterson, and i also read the whole article you linked to.

You don't think the parallels drawn about the vitriol and polarization of the political climate in the 90's in Cali and the US in the 30's are interesting? I thought they were.

Everybody has their own cup of tea, I guess.

[BD24]

Kori doesn’t do critical thinking bono. You should know this, valiant of you to try and engage with him though.

[koriwhat]

Kori doesn’t do critical thinking bono. You should know this, valiant of you to try and engage with him though.

perception my friend... yall don't really engage me like el nono is doing at the moment. i'm more receptive to el nono's posts tbh. never had a problem with him at all not even after all these years.

[koriwhat]

btw, i would really have to go back and reread sections of that article to get a better grasp on it. i read it but i'll give it another go here soon enough.

[ElNono]

btw, i would really have to go back and reread sections of that article to get a better grasp on it. i read it but i'll give it another go here soon enough.

You don't have to. I wouldn't bet $1 the outcome he predicts would come through right now, but I did find the parallels he drawn interesting nonetheless.

[Expert]

i'd like to think of it more like... they should revolt vs their own gov's and change their countries for the better instead of camping out in ours. create the change, be the change.

we have too many people here as it is and feelings don't need to get involved in this issue. yeah it's sad human lives are at stake trying to cross the border but why is that our problem?
We don't have too many people. We don't have control over what their country does or what they do, only what we do. We can hope but we have to deal with reality. In reality poor folks are coming into the US looking for a better life. It's our problem because humans are humans, and I happen to care about lives.

[Expert]

That's irrelevant. If that's a major factor then we should just go ahead and welcome billions of people. Obviously I can see why they would want to come over here. I can also see why a homeless person would want to sleep in my house. I still don't think it's acceptable for them to break in. We have a legal process for immigration.

We don't have billions of people trying to get in. This country isn't your house. The border isn't owned by you. Like I said, we cannot treat illegal immigration like a home intruder. If someone broke into my home because they were starving to death and their kids were also, I'd feed them. Actually they only need to knock.

This is why I say the immigration system needs resources, then illegal immigration wouldn't be as prevalent as it is now. There are issues all around that building a wall won't eradicate, just like building a wall around your house won't stop homeless people from dying on the street out front. If you choose to live in a neighborhood where neighbors allow people to die without offering help, that's on you. Hard to believe that's a Christian value though.


Yeah, I've decided and the plight of our own citizens is more important than citizens from other countries. They are capable of improving their own countries. Sure it's a slow process but that's a process that every country needs to go through. Yeah, just like all the luxuries in your life is more important than providing for hundreds of people in Africa.

Your ancestors didn't improve their own countries. They came here. The immigration system needs work. It shouldn't be so hard to get legal status here.


Nobody equates all immigration with illegal immigration. Literally nobody. Illegal immigration is everyone that doesn't go through the legal process.

Not true. You have no idea how many illegals are in the US. You only know legal immigration numbers. If the US has enough people already, why does it matter if more are legal or not? All immigrants should be documented.


There is significant benefit to the rest of the world to making America the best country possible. Welcoming hoards of people that don't even learn the language, just take advantage of the welfare state, just want to bring their own country into this country and not integrate with what has made this country successful is not going to help us.

There are parts of NY where Italian is still spoken. In Chinatown Chinese is spoken. Same in many different areas. The Italians, Irish, Chinese, etc... all built this country. Even my people, the Native Americans, they came down from up North chasing food. It's what people do. Putting invisible or visible borders won't stop that. I will just create more division.

The US isn't England. Why should everyone speak English?


In an era of automation and welfare you simply can't let whoever wants to come over here just come. We should recognize that they can make a difference in their country or the process will just persist forever. We already provide immense charity to the world. We create great innovations that improve the world. That is the process in which we should help the world not open our boarders to anyone that wants to come here. Long term that just doesn't help as many people.

I am not in favor of porous borders. I am in favor of understanding why they want to be here and not blaming them for coming. Sure their country should get their act together, they won't. All we can do is what we are capable of doing.

On one hand you say we should be a great country. On the other you don't want others to want to come here. Those seem to be in direct conflict with each other.

[Spurtacular]

Another youtube video I didn’t watch

Thanks for that public service announcement, monoslob.

[Nathan89]

We don't have billions of people trying to get in. This country isn't your house. The border isn't owned by you. Like I said, we cannot treat illegal immigration like a home intruder. If someone broke into my home because they were starving to death and their kids were also, I'd feed them. Actually they only need to knock.

This is why I say the immigration system needs resources, then illegal immigration wouldn't be as prevalent as it is now. There are issues all around that building a wall won't eradicate, just like building a wall around your house won't stop homeless people from dying on the street out front. If you choose to live in a neighborhood where neighbors allow people to die without offering help, that's on you. Hard to believe that's a Christian value though.

Your ancestors didn't improve their own countries. They came here. The immigration system needs work. It shouldn't be so hard to get legal status here.

Not true. You have no idea how many illegals are in the US. You only know legal immigration numbers. If the US has enough people already, why does it matter if more are legal or not? All immigrants should be documented.

There are parts of NY where Italian is still spoken. In Chinatown Chinese is spoken. Same in many different areas. The Italians, Irish, Chinese, etc... all built this country. Even my people, the Native Americans, they came down from up North chasing food. It's what people do. Putting invisible or visible borders won't stop that. I will just create more division.

The US isn't England. Why should everyone speak English?


I am not in favor of porous borders. I am in favor of understanding why they want to be here and not blaming them for coming. Sure their country should get their act together, they won't. All we can do is what we are capable of doing.

On one hand you say we should be a great country. On the other you don't want others to want to come here. Those seem to be in direct conflict with each other.

With your leadership we'd turn this country into the type of country they are fleeing. That's what happens if you don't restrict immigration. It's not comparable to immigration in the past. The welfare state is much more expansive than in the past. Therefore, immigrants have different motivations. The journey for old immigrants used to take 12 weeks and then was reduce to a week. There was a filtering process that simply doesn't happen when illegals come from Mexico.


On one hand you say we should be a great country. On the other you don't want others to want to come here. Those seem to be in direct conflict with each other.

No, I'd prefer to educate our citizens not illegals from Mexico. Protecting our culture is also important to be a great country and infusing vast amount of people in short periods of time that don't give a shit about it ruins the foundation of the country.


There are parts of NY where Italian is still spoken. In Chinatown Chinese is spoken. Same in many different areas. The Italians, Irish, Chinese, etc... all built this country. Even my people, the Native Americans, they came down from up North chasing food. It's what people do. Putting invisible or visible borders won't stop that. I will just create more division.

The US isn't England. Why should everyone speak English?

Correct. We have pockets of many different types of people and then we have Mexico flooding our country for decades. That's not a pocket.


Not true. You have no idea how many illegals are in the US. You only know legal immigration numbers. If the US has enough people already, why does it matter if more are legal or not? All immigrants should be documented.

There are an estimated 12.5 illegals in the US.


The immigration system needs work. It shouldn't be so hard to get legal status here.

Why not? I want quality immigrants. I want people that know about the country. I want people that are going to contribute more than they take. We take in a lot of legal immigrants. Perhaps that could use a boost but it still mean the majority of the illegals don't get to come over here.

[Nathan89]

We don't have too many people. We don't have control over what their country does or what they do, only what we do. We can hope but we have to deal with reality. In reality poor folks are coming into the US looking for a better life. It's our problem because humans are humans, and I happen to care about lives.

You can donate a massive portion of your paycheck to Africa if you care about lives.

[rmt]

We don't have billions of people trying to get in. This country isn't your house. The border isn't owned by you. Like I said, we cannot treat illegal immigration like a home intruder. If someone broke into my home because they were starving to death and their kids were also, I'd feed them. Actually they only need to knock.

This is why I say the immigration system needs resources, then illegal immigration wouldn't be as prevalent as it is now. There are issues all around that building a wall won't eradicate, just like building a wall around your house won't stop homeless people from dying on the street out front. If you choose to live in a neighborhood where neighbors allow people to die without offering help, that's on you. Hard to believe that's a Christian value though.

Your ancestors didn't improve their own countries. They came here. The immigration system needs work. It shouldn't be so hard to get legal status here.

Not true. You have no idea how many illegals are in the US. You only know legal immigration numbers. If the US has enough people already, why does it matter if more are legal or not? All immigrants should be documented.

There are parts of NY where Italian is still spoken. In Chinatown Chinese is spoken. Same in many different areas. The Italians, Irish, Chinese, etc... all built this country. Even my people, the Native Americans, they came down from up North chasing food. It's what people do. Putting invisible or visible borders won't stop that. I will just create more division.

The US isn't England. Why should everyone speak English?


I am not in favor of porous borders. I am in favor of understanding why they want to be here and not blaming them for coming. Sure their country should get their act together, they won't. All we can do is what we are capable of doing.

On one hand you say we should be a great country. On the other you don't want others to want to come here. Those seem to be in direct conflict with each other.

We already have more than enough of our own Americans in need than to be welcoming more illegals. What don't you understand about every tax dollar that goes towards educating these illegal children (and they cost MUCH more to educate because they need special classes/teachers) is a dollar less to educate YOUR own American child. Teachers teach to the "lowest denomination" - meaning bringing up the lesser students - often to the detriment of teaching what they're supposed to - to the others. And we wonder why people complain about the state of US education.

[Expert]

With your leadership we'd turn this country into the type of country they are fleeing. That's what happens if you don't restrict immigration. It's not comparable to immigration in the past. The welfare state is much more expansive than in the past. Therefore, immigrants have different motivations. The journey for old immigrants used to take 12 weeks and then was reduce to a week. There was a filtering process that simply doesn't happen when illegals come from Mexico.

I am not speaking as a leader but as a citizen of this country. I wasn't aware Mexico was once a great nation until they let all the illegals in.

Maybe you didn't read my response. I am not for porous borders, but for putting more into legal immigration reform.


No, I'd prefer to educate our citizens not illegals from Mexico. Protecting our culture is also important to be a great country and infusing vast amount of people in short periods of time that don't give a shit about it ruins the foundation of the country.

There's nothing great about a self-serving country. If you want to wall everything off once your folks got here and call everything yours, that's not going to work out since immigration is legal. Do you think legal immigrants have more concern for this "foundation of the country" you're talking about (a nebulous concept to be sure, and the culture of Walmart and McDonalds is pretty safe I think).


Correct. We have pockets of many different types of people and then we have Mexico flooding our country for decades. That's not a pocket.

We are living in what used to be Mexico, at least many of us are.


There are an estimated 12.5 illegals in the US.

Estimated based on what exactly?


Why not? I want quality immigrants. I want people that know about the country. I want people that are going to contribute more than they take. We take in a lot of legal immigrants. Perhaps that could use a boost but it still mean the majority of the illegals don't get to come over here.
Are you against immigration or against illegal immigration? If every single illegal immigrant in the US now passed the immigration test and were deemed legal, would that change anything in your perspective?

[Expert]

We already have more than enough of our own Americans in need than to be welcoming more illegals. What don't you understand about every tax dollar that goes towards educating these illegal children (and they cost MUCH more to educate because they need special classes/teachers) is a dollar less to educate YOUR own American child. Teachers teach to the "lowest denomination" - meaning bringing up the lesser students - often to the detriment of teaching what they're supposed to - to the others. And we wonder why people complain about the state of US education.
"Our own Americans in need"

Who here does anything for these people? What is this need? Are they starving to death?

I see this phrase thrown around without context. Let's apply some. An American in need means they have to work two jobs to provide for the family because they are a single parent household. They could very well be obese. Their kids could very well be obese and they could have luxuries beyond what a 3rd world family has. Is it your goal to give these people more money? (welfare) Is it your goal to create better opportunities so that a single mom of 3 or 4 can make more money with the same skill set? (inflation)

Tell me what these needs are and how they are going to be met that somehow the immigrants are stealing away.

[Expert]

You can donate a massive portion of your paycheck to Africa if you care about lives.
Who says I don't?

If you don't, then based on your statement you don't care about lives.

[Nathan89]

There's nothing great about a self-serving country. If you want to wall everything off once your folks got here and call everything yours, that's not going to work out since immigration is legal. Do you think legal immigrants have more concern for this "foundation of the country" you're talking about (a nebulous concept to be sure, and the culture of Walmart and McDonalds is pretty safe I think).

We are living in what used to be Mexico, at least many of us are.

Estimated based on what exactly?

Are you against immigration or against illegal immigration? If every single illegal immigrant in the US now passed the immigration test and were deemed legal, would that change anything in your perspective?

The US focusing on making itself the best possible isn't self serving. The more we advance the more the world advances. If we invent a lightbulb the world take a gigantic leap forward. If we invent the internet the world takes a leap forward. If we create advanced ways to produce food the world benefits. If we have a system that produces the cures to diseases then the world benefits. On top of that the US provides a lot of aid to countries around the world.

Yeah, the fact that they go through the legal process shows a great deal of respect for the country. It says something about them as well. They are willing to do the necessary steps and wait for as long as needed to become a citizen. The quality of the legal immigrant from Mexico has to be substantially better than the illegal immigrant from Mexico imo.

It's not about the culture of McDonalds or Walmart. It is about the culture that produces great companies like those though.

I don't care if this was once part of Mexico. That literally means nothing to me. They aren't coming here for the land. If they had this land they'd still come into the land we had.

I'm against illegals but I wouldn't accept every illegal as a legal immigrant. I want them to pass the immigration test but I also want to seek higher quality. So I'd aim for those with an education.

[rmt]

"Our own Americans in need"

Who here does anything for these people? What is this need? Are they starving to death?

I see this phrase thrown around without context. Let's apply some. An American in need means they have to work two jobs to provide for the family because they are a single parent household. They could very well be obese. Their kids could very well be obese and they could have luxuries beyond what a 3rd world family has. Is it your goal to give these people more money? (welfare) Is it your goal to create better opportunities so that a single mom of 3 or 4 can make more money with the same skill set? (inflation)

Tell me what these needs are and how they are going to be met that somehow the immigrants are stealing away.

You don't think that all that money that was spent on educating illegals kids could have been spent on American kids? That those funds couldn't have brought the level of education/passing rates/graduation rates/ability to qualify for college up thereby giving our citizens better jobs/opportunity? In simple terms, I take care of my own BEFORE others. Sure, I could give away my kids' college fund but how would that affect my kids' chances of themselves becomes welfare recipients instead of contributing tax dollars. Feel free to do what you want with YOUR money but I have an obligation to take care of my own before I give to others and I'd like to STAY in a position where I can do both - which doesn't include letting in every Tom, Dick and Harry who wants to come here (especially illegally) - spending more to educate, feed and clothe them - legal/border/administrative costs.

And yes, training for that single mom so that she can get off welfare and contribute tax dollars instead of taking up tax dollars.

Welfare Use
Immigrant 51%
Native 30%

Figure 1 of https://cis.org/Report/Welfare-Use-Immigrant-and-Native-Households

I would like to work on getting our natives off welfare and changing the immigration system to a merit-based one so that 51% of LEGAL immigrants aren't ending up on welfare (that they can take care of themselves and hopefully contribute tax dollars instead of using them).

[AaronY]

A reasonable perspective on immigration and why we need to control it.
You are such an impressionable goober. Nothing but regurgitated talking points.

[boutons_deux]

Of course, with America being rigged, corrupted by the oligarchy over the past 40+ years, this asshole is bloviating against touching that status quo.

This privileged white male racist asshole is worried about the predicted, INEVITABLE demographic "transformation" where his white population, not reproducing at replacement level, and children becoming just another financial planning input, becomes the minority group as browns and black "breed" more prolifically.

[rmt]

Of course, with America being rigged, corrupted by the oligarchy over the past 40+ years, this asshole is bloviating against touching that status quo.

This privileged white male racist asshole is worried about the predicted, INEVITABLE demographic "transformation" where his white population, not reproducing at replacement level, and children becoming just another financial planning input, becomes the minority group as browns and black "breed" more prolifically.

He is not the only one advocating controlling illegal immigration and changing our legal immigration system. I, a chinese female, from a country where 92%? of the country is BLACK is advocating the same. Am I worried about the above? NO - I'm worried that more and more people coming into this country are headed to welfare and sooner or later, the workers will not be able to support that.

[boutons_deux]

[QUOTE=rmt;9343766I'm worried that more and more people coming into this country are headed to welfare and sooner or later, the workers will not be able to support that.[/QUOTE]

More browns are leaving America than are coming.

Study after study show the the 10M+ browns are a net positive for the American economy.

White Americans on public assistance, aka "leeches, moochers, Welfare Queens in Cadillacs", outnumber the non-whites.

If you weren't primarily a racist, you would worry more accurately about the white male oligarchy pushing Trash's "white (male) working class" into poverty, near-poverty, and keeping them there, and on $Bs of public assistance (which the white male oligarchy has EVERY intention of reducing dramatically to "pay for" the white male oligarchy's tax cuts).

[Aztecfan03]

Lol at conservatives in here saying California is a mess. High salaries, a booming economy, the most gdp of any state, an amazing job market, fantastic companies headquartered there.

yea what a shit hole.

Lol at these same stupid asses saying Austin will be “shit” soon as well. Austin is an extremely nice city which shares many of the qualities listed above.

i would love to hear the definition of a great state/city from those on the right. Please enlighten me with what you are looking for

You forgot high taxes(which are completely wasted) and high costs.

[boutons_deux]

You forgot high taxes(which are completely wasted) and high costs.

how are, where are CA's high taxes completely wasted?

[BD24]

You forgot high taxes(which are completely wasted) and high costs.
I disagree with the wasted part, of people are willing to pay a very high premium to live somewhere isn’t it safe to assume that is probably a great place to live? I don’t see anyone lining up to pay over a million for homes in shit states like Alabama,Louisiana, and the rest of the southern shit holes.

high cost of living sucks, but if you can afford to live there California is a pretty fantastic place to be. If money wasn’t an object I would settle in San Diego personally

[boutons_deux]

I disagree with the wasted part, of people are willing to pay a very high premium to live somewhere isn’t it safe to assume that is probably a great place to live? I don’t see anyone lining up to pay over a million for homes in shit states like Alabama,Louisiana, and the rest of the southern shit holes.

high cost of living sucks, but if you can afford to live there California is a pretty fantastic place to be. If money wasn’t an object I would settle in San Diego personally

Apart from zoning regs which limits the housing stock, the housing demand is high because because people want to live there, there's lots of money to be made. Poor people are suffering, homeless (esp LA) or being forced out, and rich retired people are cashing in their homes and moving out, but middle and upper income people want to be there. Pacific coast, forests, mountains, snow, deserts, rivers, national/state parks.

[rmt]

More browns are leaving America than are coming.

Study after study show the the 10M+ browns are a net positive for the American economy.

White Americans on public assistance, aka "leeches, moochers, Welfare Queens in Cadillacs", outnumber the non-whites.

If you weren't primarily a racist, you would worry more accurately about the white male oligarchy pushing Trash's "white (male) working class" into poverty, near-poverty, and keeping them there, and on $Bs of public assistance (which the white male oligarchy has EVERY intention of reducing dramatically to "pay for" the white male oligarchy's tax cuts).

Well, at least in this post, (according to you) it's the white male oligarchy sticking it to the white male working class. The whites on public assistance probably outnumber the non-whites because there are just more whites in the country - got some studies that show the percentages? And racist? I'm used to the goddamn stupid criticism but iirc, that one's a first for you.

[rmt]

Apart from zoning regs which limits the housing stock, the housing demand is high because because people want to live there, there's lots of money to be made. Poor people are suffering, homeless (esp LA) or being forced out, and rich retired people are cashing in their homes and moving out, but middle and upper income people want to be there. Pacific coast, forests, mountains, snow, deserts, rivers, national/state parks.

I don't think it's the above bolded - it's the jobs and that the tech companies like Google and Apple insist on building in CA. Slight shift this year - only 3 from dd's circle are going to Google - guess they had enough of high cost of living in SV - more went MicroSoft or FB in Seattle (no state tax and more reasonable housing cost).

[Nathan89]

Of course, with America being rigged, corrupted by the oligarchy over the past 40+ years, this asshole is bloviating against touching that status quo.

This privileged white male racist asshole is worried about the predicted, INEVITABLE demographic "transformation" where his white population, not reproducing at replacement level, and children becoming just another financial planning input, becomes the minority group as browns and black "breed" more prolifically.

"privileged white male racist asshole":lmao

I love how the left just jumps to terrible conclusions and tries to shut it all down with some trite insult. May as well add homophobic, sexist, trans-phobic, etc. to your baseless remarks only mean't to shut down conversation, mislead, and polarize.

Of course lost in all your ridiculousness is the fact that the guy in the video was born and lives in Canada.

But...but... he's a white male so I can all him every name in the book and assume every motive about him to shut down conversation. You need to grow up and get out of your toxic and idiotic bubble.

[boutons_deux]

I don't think it's the above bolded - it's the jobs and that the tech companies like Google and Apple insist on building in CA. Slight shift this year - only 3 from dd's circle are going to Google - guess they had enough of high cost of living in SV - more went MicroSoft or FB in Seattle (no state tax and more reasonable housing cost).

yes, ok, the high-paying jobs (high enough live decently) in Bay Area, LA county, San Diego, obviously keep people in CA but the bolded stuff, esp for the under 40s, helps a lot.

Of course the tech companies want to bring 10Ks of South Asians to pay them peanuts compared to US techies.