Who's available around the 20th Pick?

[raybies]

havent been following college basketball this year and draftexpress is gone...

[CGD]

Looking like the 19th pick

[mexicanjunior]

No one, we needed to be in the top 15 to get anyone decent...

[raybies]

and if we get lucky with the minny coin flip it could be 18
https://media.giphy.com/media/BZlNhp9L5WINi/giphy.gif

[TheGreatYacht]

Hopefully all the eurofags and ugly vending machine heads are gone by then. Drunkford is full on gay for those types

[SuperCam]

any soft eurofags or large skulled lightskin guards tbh?

[TheGreatYacht]

any soft eurofags or large skulled lightskin guards tbh?
Manig :tu

[raybies]

TGYs alternate is SuperCam confirmed

[TheGreatYacht]

Raybies faggot ass disappearing the whole season until the Spurs clinched a playoff spot :lol what a front running faggot. Got exposed for not watching the games in the GT too....

[raybies]

lol ok bub

even when i was around i rarely posted in game threads. I hate typing and watching

[r0drig0lac]

Musa draft and stash...lmao

[south side spur]

http://image.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/width600/img/ducks_impact/photo/troy-brown-jr-ac9c2ce01ccb78dapng-90e1cbabf97f11e9.png

[raybies]

i think we need a big with high upside. Robert Williams looks like he has two way potential. Any thoughts on him?

Granted I only watched a highlight vid and all...

[turkish spurs fan]

dzanan musa is a really nice guy. i hope spurs can draft him

[raybies]

dzanan musa is a really nice guy. i hope spurs can draft him
what's his skill set?

[DAF86]

i think we need a big with high upside. Robert Williams looks like he has two way potential. Any thoughts on him?

Granted I only watched a highlight vid and all...

No, son. Wings, wings, wings, more wings, and then a few more wings.

[raybies]

No, son. Wings, wings, wings, more wings, and then a few more wings.
i've been singing the same sad tune for about 5 years now smh...

[turkish spurs fan]

what's his skill set?

203-206 cm, sf/pf. terrific 3 pointer. can drive, creates his own shot. self-confident. this 18 years old boy is mentally a little crazy.

[BackHome]

Also injury prone.

[Spurs9]

and if we get lucky with the minny coin flip it could be 18
https://media.giphy.com/media/BZlNhp9L5WINi/giphy.gif

:lol

[r0drig0lac]

what's his skill set?

white and european

[r0drig0lac]

i've been singing the same sad tune for about 5 years now smh...

same here

[Thomas82]

i think we need a big with high upside. Robert Williams looks like he has two way potential. Any thoughts on him?

Granted I only watched a highlight vid and all...

I agree with us getting a big, but I like Mitchell Robinson better.

[south side spur]

Troy Brown Jr comparison Paul Pierce
Zhaire Smith...why make a comparison that you won’t take seriously?

[Chinook]

i think we need a big with high upside. Robert Williams looks like he has two way potential. Any thoughts on him?

Granted I only watched a highlight vid and all...

Yeah him or Porter. No wings plz

[Play Boban]

white and european
:wow

[objective]

no thanks on Musa. 6-8 skinnier Bertans.

Three guys that I think are very, very interesting: Zhaire Smith, Mitchell Robinson, and Robert Williams

But the great news is that by making the playoffs they'll probably all be off the board anyway!

[Spurtacular]

http://image.oregonlive.com/home/olive-media/width600/img/ducks_impact/photo/troy-brown-jr-ac9c2ce01ccb78dapng-90e1cbabf97f11e9.png

Nobody from that team, tbh. As a gambler, I can tell you they were a steaming pile of sh**.

[duncan2150]

A lot of guys... and it’s 18 or 19 i think.

Don’t really Know spurs needs, no pg with mirray imo but i Will go with the BPA.

[duncan2150]

what positions you guys think we have To draft ?

[Chinook]

what positions you guys think we have To draft ?

Would hope a big in the first, combo-forward in the second. If Kawhi is traded, that pick can go to a wing. Assuming he stays, though, they have him, Anderson, Blossom, White and Paul even if Danny leaves and Manu hangs them up. An LLE-level free agent could fill any gap still missing after all that. However, just like with the guards this year, the Spurs have to attack their big problem with excess

[duncan2150]

Agree with that.

But i don’t see a lot of good bigs, you have Robert williams Or guys like mc coy, metu...

you have a lot of guards/ forwards in this draft.

[MannyIsGod]

i think we need a big with high upside. Robert Williams looks like he has two way potential. Any thoughts on him?

Granted I only watched a highlight vid and all...

There's no way Williams is available at 19, IMO.

But if he were, the Spurs would be really stupid to not take him. The dude has all the physical skills you want and he's a defensive monster. He's incredibly long and he plays WAY above the rim. He's not a great shooter, but he actually does have a soft touch and good hands. If this guy had played for a competent college coach, I think he could have been a top 5 pick. He underwhelemed for A&M on offense, but that's on the system he played in.

But I'd be shocked if he makes it out of the top 10, honestly. He's got too many physical tools for many teams to pass on him. He is the next Capella/Jordan. I hope for him he ends up with a good coach, though. He seems a bit mentally fragile, so I think he will need a bit of a good situation/coach/organization to make him successful.

[MannyIsGod]

Agree with that.

But i don’t see a lot of good bigs, you have Robert williams Or guys like mc coy, metu...

you have a lot of guards/ forwards in this draft.


There are quite a few good bigs available in this draft.

[MannyIsGod]

I'll still this about Williams. Dude can be a great pick and roll defender. He's got the lateral speed to stay with smaller quicker players and has the length and athletic ability to erase shots after mistakes. He is an absolute defensive monster.

[SPURt]

They need someone capable of creating and making their own shot, position doesn’t matter. Offense this year was hot freaking garbage.

[duncan2150]

There are quite a few good bigs available in this draft.

Except the guys i mentionned williams metu mc coy who do you see as a good big ? i forgot mitchell robinson maybe wiley but i didn't see a lot .

this draft seems loaded by guards imo.

[Texas_Ranger]

probably someone that will not play at all in the first season or two.

[objective]

Yeah, going over rankings from the remaining free sites like Tankathon, Stepian, Ringer, and S.I. and I'm not seeing too many bigs after Robinson and Jontay Porter go off the board for a long time, and I am not to sure on Porter.

I'm already bracing myself for the Spurs taking Grayson Allen.

[Russ]

Here are some guys that may go around that time . . .

Khyri Thomas 6-3 210 PG/SG Creighton Jr.
Gary Trent Jr. 6-6 215 SG Duke Fr.
Lonnie Walker 6-4 200 SG Miami Fr.
Robert Williams 6-9 240 PF/C Texas A&M So.

Walker looks kind of interesting as a shooter. Williams has been commented on above.

[SpursforSix]

Here are some guys that may go around that time . . .

Khyri Thomas 6-3 210 PG/SG Creighton Jr.
Gary Trent Jr. 6-6 215 SG Duke Fr.
Lonnie Walker 6-4 200 SG Miami Fr.
Robert Williams 6-9 240 PF/C Texas A&M So.

Walker looks kind of interesting as a shooter. Williams has been commented on above.

:pop: they're all too tall for their position.

[SAGirl]

984293623993905152

[Russ]

984293623993905152

Zhaire Smith should be added in for athleticism and potential:

Zhaire Smith 6-5 195 SG Texas Tech Fr.

[raybies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyeV37oLQps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyeV37oLQps

this the type of knock down shooter we need at the two position... don't know much about him defensively and his potential at that side of the ball, but this dude averaged 14.5 as a Freshman and the types of shots he's hitting with a 40% percentage clip from three is impressive as heck. One more year and he'd be a lottery pick imo.

[rjv]

i think we need a big with high upside. Robert Williams looks like he has two way potential. Any thoughts on him?

Granted I only watched a highlight vid and all...

uber athletic and has a nasty streak. he can jump out of the gym and is a solid defender but he is limited offensively and has no jump shot to speak of. he also struggled to be consistent. he will not likely be around when the spurs pick though.

[raybies]

uber athletic and has a nasty streak. he can jump out of the gym and is a solid defender but he is limited offensively and has no jump shot to speak of. he also struggled to be consistent. he will not likely be around when the spurs pick though.
any big the spurs pick will have to be able to stetch the floor especially at the four position. Jontay Porter looked like he has decent form and shot. I just think you get more bang for your buck with the 18th pick with a guard or wing. Bigs that are usually high skilled and two way players usually are lottery picks. A Ibaka type would be awesome tho. Shooting and playmaking are our greatest weaknesses right now.

[rjv]

984293623993905152

i've seen smith in a few mocks to the spurs. i haven't seen that Divincenzo has declared though. he may declare but without an agent to cover his bases. another intriguing big from A&M would be tyler davis who declared but did not sign an agent. it will be interesting to see how he is assessed. not quite as athletic as williams but has a great touch around the rim and more offensive game. he was often the better of the two. he could be available somewhere in the 2nd round unless his stock rises.

[wildbill2u]

Take any one of Villanova's top 6 players. Come to think of it, I'd take all 6 and get rid of some current Spurs.

[raybies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWaUUGH5XXw

This dude's form looks just like Chris Bosh's. I like this kids skill set. He would compliment LMA very well in a Gasol role. He's good at passing out the low post and playing the high low and can stretch the floor. Hard to tell defensively speaking but it lists him with pluses in defense plus minus and steals and blocks. Anyone got a scouting report on him?

[DPG21920]

Spurs will take the best talent available. I don’t think they will be aiming for a position.

[raybies]

Spurs will take the best talent available. I don’t think they will be aiming for a position.
hope so... at 18-19 in a supposedly deep draft it's important to hit on this selection.

[TheGreatYacht]

The only Nova player that has any future in the NBA is Mikal Bridges. Let's be serious :lol

He'll be the steal of the draft. Would be willing to trade anyone besides Kawhi to go up and get him. Jazz traded their 24th pick and Trey Lyles last year to move up to #13 and draft Donovan Mitchell. Would package the 19th and GLeague Danny in a second.

[r0drig0lac]

go on the best wing available with real size and athleticism for a basketball player

[Play Boban]

no thanks on Musa. 6-8 skinnier Bertans.

Three guys that I think are very, very interesting: Zhaire Smith, Mitchell Robinson, and Robert Williams

But the great news is that by making the playoffs they'll probably all be off the board anyway!
Racist.

[Play Boban]

Let’s draft Doncic tbh.

[venitian navigator]

what is exactly our draft position? if i've understood correctly it will be 18 or 19 depending a coin flip in the lottery day...

[raybies]

what is exactly our draft position? if i've understood correctly it will be 18 or 19 depending a coin flip in the lottery day...
yup that is correct. we are 18/19 depending on coin flip with minny

[Dex]

We just have to hope a few teams outsmart themselves, and a lottery pick falls to 18/19 similar to how Dejounte fell.

It's still a heck of a lot better than choosing 29th tbh,

[DPG21920]

Playoffs + worst case 19th pick >>>>>>>>>14th pick.

[phxspurfan]

984293623993905152

Knew someone would want to pick DiVincenzo now. The tournament always produces one of these all hype Christian Laettner/Tyler Hansbrough-type kids.

[dabom]

Playoffs + worst case 19th pick >>>>>>>>>14th pick.

Can Spurs get 14th pick? :lol

[TheGreatYacht]

*IF Kawhi doesn't sign an extension this offseason and the Spurs decide to start taking offers, then I think this would be the best case scenario for Spurs fans...

Sixers get: Kawhi Leonard

Spurs get: Lakers pick (Mikal Bridges), Markelle Fultz, and Dario Saric

Then with the 18/19th pick they can draft Mitchell Robinson who is the perfect modern day Center and exactly what the Spurs need. In this scenario Murray would have to be human sacrifice in any deal to salary dump Gasol or Mills.

Next year's roster would look like this, hopefully.

Aldridge/Robinson
Saric/Gay
Bridges/Ginobili
Green/White
Fultz/Parker

[lebomb]

No one, we needed to be in the top 15 to get anyone decent...

Ummmmmmm.......WRONG!!! Manu pick #57, Parker pick #28, Dejounte Murray pick #29, Derrick White pick #29

[DAF86]

Yeah him or Porter. No wings plz

Why are you so against doing things right son? :lol

[Dex]

*IF Kawhi doesn't sign an extension this offseason and the Spurs decide to start taking offers, then I think this would be the best case scenario for Spurs fans...

Sixers get: Kawhi Leonard

Spurs get: Lakers pick (Mikal Bridges), Markelle Fultz, and Dario Saric

Then with the 18/19th pick they can draft Mitchell Robinson who is the perfect modern day Center and exactly what the Spurs need. In this scenario Murray would have to be human sacrifice in any deal to salary dump Gasol or Mills.

Next year's roster would look like this, hopefully.

Aldridge/Robinson
Saric/Gay
Bridges/Ginobili
Green/White
Fultz/Parker

Not a bad scenario, but doubt Spurs part with Murray. He's become Pops new pet project.

Also, taking on Fultz would just be trading one injury case for another.

[DPG21920]

Can Spurs get 14th pick? :lol

Not at this point, no. I was saying for people rooting for SA to miss the playoffs at the end. The difference in where the Spurs are vs what they wanted is Spurs in the playoffs + the 19th pick (or 18th) vs having the 14th pick.

[FvckMavs]

Not a bad scenario, but doubt Spurs part with Murray. He's become Pops new pet project.

Also, taking on Fultz would just be trading one injury case for another.

At least we are dealing with a real injury.

[spurraider21]

we need a modern center tbh... right now we're looking at Pau and Joff. just no

[TheGreatYacht]

Mitchell Robinson has to be the guy. 7'1 with shoes. 5-star recruit who didn't go to college, therefore will most likely be there at 18/19. Experts rate him as the best rim protector in his class and he's great at running the floor. The foundation for having a jumpshot is there too.

Just hope it's not Grayson Allen, DiVincenzo, or Dzanan Musa. Gross....

[SAGirl]

we need a modern center tbh... right now we're looking at Pau and Joff. just no
agreed... maybe make a deal and try to trade up if they can.

[vy65]

Getting trounced in 4 or 5 games is not worth losing 5 draft slots. Pining for a participation trophy is beyond pathetic.

[SAGirl]

^ :grim:

[TimDunkem]

They'll pick whoever has the biggest forehead.

[NASpurs]

Getting trounced in 4 or 5 games is not worth losing 5 draft slots. Pining for a participation trophy is beyond pathetic.

Hiroshima size truth nuke

[Dex]

Getting trounced in 4 or 5 games is not worth losing 5 draft slots. Pining for a participation trophy is beyond pathetic.

The team remaining "competitive" is huge from a fan support standpoint, not to mention free agents.

Selling tickets for even a couple playoff games helps keep the team financially viable.

Then there is the competitive drive of the players. Do you think LMA and Gay signed contracts expecting to miss the playoffs? Do you think Manu wants to potentially spend his last season in the lottery after never missing a postseason?

Spurs fans need to get out of this championship or bust mentality, especially during a year like this when it simply isn't in the cards. Making the playoffs is still an accomplishment that half the league would love to have, and the difference between #15 and #20 isn't that drastic considering the draft is a crapshoot anyways.

Don't know why some people want to just keep shoving their foot to keep the basement door open, without acknowledging that it could be years before the Spurs come out of it.

[vy65]

You know what’s a great way to sell tickets? Have a competitive team.

Know what’s a great way to have a competitive team? Having good draft picks.

Know what’s a great way to get good draft picks?

[raybies]

The team remaining "competitive" is huge from a fan support standpoint, not to mention free agents.

Selling tickets for even a couple playoff games helps keep the team financially viable.

Then there is the competitive drive of the players. Do you think LMA and Gay signed contracts expecting to miss the playoffs? Do you think Manu wants to potentially spend his last season in the lottery after never missing a postseason?

Spurs fans need to get out of this championship or bust mentality, especially during a year like this when it simply isn't in the cards. Making the playoffs is still an accomplishment that half the league would love to have, and the difference between #15 and #20 isn't that drastic considering the draft is a crapshoot anyways.

Don't know why some people want to just keep shoving their foot to keep the basement door open, without acknowledging that it could be years before the Spurs come out of it.
respect you for trying to reach the lost here man... but agreed completely. some people don't get it. playoffs home sales are all plus. they are not factored in so anything you get is net positive. And we typically have late first. be interesting to see what we get late mid. I have high hopes for this pick unless this draft is crap.

[SAGirl]

The team remaining "competitive" is huge from a fan support standpoint, not to mention free agents.

Selling tickets for even a couple playoff games helps keep the team financially viable.

Then there is the competitive drive of the players. Do you think LMA and Gay signed contracts expecting to miss the playoffs? Do you think Manu wants to potentially spend his last season in the lottery after never missing a postseason?

Spurs fans need to get out of this championship or bust mentality, especially during a year like this when it simply isn't in the cards. Making the playoffs is still an accomplishment that half the league would love to have, and the difference between #15 and #20 isn't that drastic considering the draft is a crapshoot anyways.

Don't know why some people want to just keep shoving their foot to keep the basement door open, without acknowledging that it could be years before the Spurs come out of it.
depressive personality types, negative nancys, spoiled, etc... to each their own.

[Dex]

You know what’s a great way to sell tickets? Have a competitive team.

Know what’s a great way to have a competitive team? Having good draft picks.

Know what’s a great way to get good draft picks?

The Mavericks, Suns, and Lakers have gotten good draft picks the past couple years. How competitive are they?

It took the Sixers four years of extreme tanking to finally get back into the playoffs.

It's not like the Spurs were going to find another Tim Duncan with the #15th pick.

[SAGirl]

respect you for trying to reach the lost here man... but agreed completely. some people don't get it. playoffs home sales are all plus. they are not factored in so anything you get is net positive. And we typically have late first. be interesting to see what we get late mid. I have high hopes for this pick unless this draft is crap.
I get people being depressed, upset and in a foul mood over the kawhi situation, but sometimes one has to watch fans of other teams, or other franchises that don't take this for granted to appreciate...
984351568983199744
984261645768638464

Of course I think Kawhi being hurt or whatever just saps all enthusiasm some fans can have.

[raybies]

I get people being depressed, upset and in a foul mood over the kawhi situation, but sometimes one has to watch fans of other teams, or other franchises that don't take this for granted to appreciate...
984351568983199744
984261645768638464

Of course I think Kawhi being hurt or whatever just saps all enthusiasm some fans can have.
Great Post. Even our players knew to adjust the expectations of the team. Manu said so... It's just some of these posters have the iq of a rock...

[vy65]

The Mavericks, Suns, and Lakers have gotten good draft picks the past couple years. How competitive are they?

It took the Sixers four years of extreme tanking to finally get back into the playoffs.

It's not like the Spurs were going to find another Tim Duncan with the #15th pick.

The Mavericks, Suns, and Lakers are irrelevant.

The choices are: 15th pick or the 20th a first round sweep. I don't really care to see my team get smoked in the first round. Nor do I think that ticket sales for two home games are that meaningful in the long scheme of things. It makes far more strategic sense to maximize your chances in the draft vs. desperately clinging to a participation trophy. You might not get a Tim Duncan with the 15th pick, but we got someone pretty decent the last time we had No. 15 in the draft.

[vy65]

Didn't realize we had a resident psychologist in our midst.

[vy65]

Spurs fans need to get out of this championship or bust mentality, especially during a year like this when it simply isn't in the cards. Making the playoffs is still an accomplishment that half the league would love to have, and the difference between #15 and #20 isn't that drastic considering the draft is a crapshoot anyways.

Don't know why some people want to just keep shoving their foot to keep the basement door open, without acknowledging that it could be years before the Spurs come out of it.

Why? This isn't little league baseball and participation trophies aren't handed out. These are professional athletes - it's their job to do everything in their power to compete for a championship.

I have never seen Spurs fans so aggressive fire off weaponized mediocrity so aggressively at people who remind them that the basic premise of professional sports is to be the best.

[MaNu4Tres]

If he declares, DeAndre Hunter ..

Mitchell Robinson is my other choice.

Get one of those two.

[Strategic]

Isn’t there a six feet shooting guard that need a couple seasons in Austin?

[Dex]

Why? This isn't little league baseball and participation trophies aren't handed out. These are professional athletes - it's their job to do everything in their power to compete for a championship.

I have never seen Spurs fans so aggressive fire off weaponized mediocrity so aggressively at people who remind them that the basic premise of professional sports is to be the best.

So you want the Spurs to be the best...by actively trying to lose games?

Spurs fans have been spoiled to have a competitive team for the last two decades. There is a reason that there hasn't been another run like that in the NBA...hell, in any other sport. It's not something to be taken for granted.

For every fan wanting their team to "do everything in their power to compete for a championship", there are five fans just wishing for their teams to sniff the playoffs. Teams have gone years, even decades, without playing a playoff game.

It's simply not reasonable to expect the Spurs (or ANY team) to win a championship every single year. History supports that.

When the Spurs really need to tank, get ready for years of shitty basketball. Are you really in such a rush to get there?

[spurraider21]

Why? This isn't little league baseball and participation trophies aren't handed out. These are professional athletes - it's their job to do everything in their power to compete for a championship.

I have never seen Spurs fans so aggressive fire off weaponized mediocrity at people who remind them what the basic premise of sports is: compete to be the best.
so everybody that ins't GSW/HOU/BOS/CLE should just be losing every game on purpose?

the concept of tanking only makes sense for teams that are in the midst of a rebuild and should bottom out... like the sixers. it's what the nets should have done instead of trading for KG/Pierce...

the spurs aren't there unless kawhi is off the team tbh

[vy65]

So you want the Spurs to be the best...by actively trying to lose games?

Spurs fans have been spoiled to have a competitive team for the last two decades. There is a reason that there hasn't been another run like that in the NBA...hell, in any other sport. It's not something to be taken for granted.

For every fan wanting their team to "do everything in their power to compete for a championship", there are five fans just wishing for their teams to sniff the playoffs. Teams have gone years, even decades, without playing a playoff game.

It's simply not reasonable to expect the Spurs (or ANY team) to win a championship every single year. History supports that.

When the Spurs really need to tank, get ready for years of shitty basketball. Are you really in such a rush to get there?

This is such a retarded response. No dude, of course I don't want the Spurs to lose games. I want them to be as competitive as possible and have the highest chance of winning a championship. Unfortunately, I, along with the team, live in this place called "reality." In reality, I recognize this team has severe flaws and has no chance of winning a playoff series. So what's the point? Are you going to feel good watching this team get murdered in 4 or 5 games? I ask that because I will derive no enjoyment seeing this team sent home after a 30 point L in game 5.

I do not EXPECT the Spurs to win a championship every year. I have no idea where you got this from. What I expect is for the team to maximize its ability to compete for a championship. And the idea of being the late 2010's version of the Atlanta Hawks is antithetical to that expectation.

As for the actual tank - yes, I am in a rush to get there. The sooner the process starts, the sooner it ends. But that's also because I have higher standards than mediocrity. Sadly, that's not a value shared with many posters.

[Chinook]

so everybody that ins't GSW/HOU/BOS/CLE should just be losing every game on purpose?

the concept of tanking only makes sense for teams that are in the midst of a rebuild and should bottom out... like the sixers. it's what the nets should have done instead of trading for KG/Pierce...

the spurs aren't there unless kawhi is off the team tbh

People bitch at the Nets trade, but the thinking wasn't the problem. They just paid too much. Had they never acquired Wallace, not only would have have kept that pick, but they would have probably been able to save an extra first or two off their deal with Boston. The idea of trading for HoFers for one last run wasn't wrong-headed. Indeed, even as oldies, Williams, Johnson, Pierce, Garnett and Lopez was a fine unit that might have been even better had they gotten a second year. It was worth A gamble. It just wasn't worth THAT gamble.

[Chinook]

No dude, of course I don't want the Spurs to lose games.

Yes you do. You want it temporarily as a means to and ends, but you want it all the same. Own that instead of acting like everyone's too stupid to understand what you mean.

And again, the Spurs were could have easily been in position to win a playoff series this season. So the whole idea that it was between getting GS in the first round or getting a lottery pick is disingenuous.

[vy65]

so everybody that ins't GSW/HOU/BOS/CLE should just be losing every game on purpose?

The point made was: 15th pick < 20th pick + playoffs. Your question is irrelevant to that point.


the concept of tanking only makes sense for teams that are in the midst of a rebuild and should bottom out... like the sixers. it's what the nets should have done instead of trading for KG/Pierce...

the spurs aren't there unless kawhi is off the team tbh

Disagree. When it became abundantly clear that Kawhi was not coming back, there was no point in remaining competitive this season. It's reasonable to me to start losing games when your best player doesn't play because you're a) not going to be competitive and b) can maximize your draft pick. Your last statement proves too much: Kawhi was off this team for the full year -- conditions were there to shoot for a higher pick.

[vy65]

Yes you do. You want it temporarily as a means to and ends, but you want it all the same.

So what? What point are you making here?

[keithington1]

Gary Clark & Chandler Hutchinson have all star potential.

[BackHome]

so everybody that ins't GSW/HOU/BOS/CLE should just be losing every game on purpose?

the concept of tanking only makes sense for teams that are in the midst of a rebuild and should bottom out... like the sixers. it's what the nets should have done instead of trading for KG/Pierce...

the spurs aren't there unless kawhi is off the team tbh

Say What? We got to the dance without his ass all we need to do is trade him get a high draft pick and a good player or two and we right back to being contenders

[spurraider21]

Say What? We got to the dance without his ass all we need to do is trade him get a high draft pick and a good player or two and we right back to being contenders
this roster without kawhi has such a tiny window (since its entirely dependent on 32 year old LMA)... and a high draft pick wont be developed by that time

[DAF86]

Would hope a big in the first, combo-forward in the second. If Kawhi is traded, that pick can go to a wing. Assuming he stays, though, they have him, Anderson, Blossom, White and Paul even if Danny leaves and Manu hangs them up. An LLE-level free agent could fill any gap still missing after all that. However, just like with the guards this year, the Spurs have to attack their big problem with excess

Anderson = Not worth keeping for over 5 mils per year.
Blossomgame = unproven. Can't count on him panning out.
White = Should play PG.
Paul = Scrub
Danny = will leave
Manu = will probably opt in.

So, if Kawhi stays (not a very likely "if") you only have him and a 42 year old as your only two wings. And you don't feel like getting more wings. :lol

Spurs need to get as many athletic, tall wings that can shoot as possible, tbh. The Spurs already have their bigmen inked for the next season: Aldridge, Gasol and Lauvergne, with Costello as a roster injury replacement. In today's NBA you don't need more than 3 or 4 bigs in your roster and like it or not, the Spurs already have those spots secured. They made their shit sandwich and now they have to eat it. Sure, if you can get other big by somehow trading Gasol it would be awesome. But if Gasol stays put, the Spurs can't afford wasting more roster spots on bigs.

Seriously son, get with the times already.

[BackHome]

As long as you got a window you got a chance I still think we have a good chance if we make the right moves. Retire Tony, trade Gasol and Mills, release Paul and Forbes. Trade Kawhi keep Rudy, Manu, White, Murray, LMA, figure out Bertans and Anderson.

So you got one or two good draft picks and probably a good starter in the trade. We still have some good foreign draft picks that I think could help us next year

[spurraider21]

Dejounte/White/Kawhi would be a great starting unit... but the depth after that is pretty bare. Hard to know who is going to be the backup 3

- Danny is likely gone, and I have no clue what Anderson's FA value.
- White isn't somebody who can be interchangeably played at the 2 or 3 imo, he lacks the size to match up with most 3's. He's a combo guard more than a wing.
- Unknown if Manu will be back, and realistically can't expect much more than 15-20 mpg even if he comes back, and that time would likely be split between the 2 and 3
- Paul sucks tbh... if we're counting on him to be in the rotation then we're doing something wrong
- Hanga would actually be useful, but that ship has sailed

[DaBears]

Anderson = Not worth keeping for over 5 mils per year.
Blossomgame = unproven. Can't count on him panning out.
White = Should play PG.
Paul = Scrub
Danny = will leave
Manu = will probably opt in.

So, if Kawhi stays (not a very likely "if") you only have him and a 42 year old as your only two wings. And you don't feel like getting more wings. :lol

Spurs need to get as many athletic, tall wings that can shoot as possible, tbh. The Spurs already have their bigmen inked for the next season: Aldridge, Gasol and Lauvergne, with Costello as a roster injury replacement. In today's NBA you don't need more than 3 or 4 bigs in your roster and like it or not, the Spurs already have those spots secured. They made their shit sandwich and now they have to eat it. Sure, if you can get other big by somehow trading Gasol it would be awesome. But if Gasol stays put, the Spurs can't afford wasting more roster spots on bigs.

Seriously son, get with the times already.

while i agree with you on pretty much everything... Its not like these players of which you speak ( "athletic, tall wings that can shoot" ) for grow on tree's..

[Chinook]

Anderson = Not worth keeping for over 5 mils per year.
Blossomgame = unproven. Can't count on him panning out.
White = Should play PG.
Paul = Scrub
Danny = will leave
Manu = will probably opt in.

So, if Kawhi stays (not a very likely "if") you only have him and a 42 year old as your only two wings. And you don't feel like getting more wings. :lol

Spurs need to get as many athletic, tall wings that can shoot as possible, tbh. The Spurs already have their bigmen inked for the next season: Aldridge, Gasol and Lauvergne, with Costello as a roster injury replacement. In today's NBA you don't need more than 3 or 4 bigs in your roster and like it or not, the Spurs already have those spots secured. They made their shit sandwich and now they have to eat it. Sure, if you can get other big by somehow trading Gasol it would be awesome. But if Gasol stays put, the Spurs can't afford wasting more roster spots on bigs.

Seriously son, get with the times already.

Typical ":cry Aldridge ball isn't winning ball :cry" take. The Spurs had eight players who switched between SG, SF and PF this year, and that's not including Forbes, Murray or LMA. Kawhi and his 30-plus mpg were missing, which made it look like wing depth was a problem. I've nothing against the idea of letting go of guys like Bryn and getting bigger dudes in there, or the idea of moving on from guys who can't shoot and getting guys who can. But ultimately, the lack of bigs hurt the team more, and it could have been even worse had LMA not been such an iron man.

You've continued to erroneously paint me as this traditionalist, anti-analytics guy, and I'll resist refuting that again for the sake of not derailing the thread. However, the team is going to play big from time to time to maximize their advantage, so strictly counting on three bigs isn't going to work, especially seeing as the top two are getting up there in age. That's also ignoring that Joff could well opt out of a min deal and Costello may not have to take a two-way deal again. Getting a) Fresh blood to groom for Pau's rotation spot in 2019 and b) a big who can play with the bench better than Joff is important. None of the "modern" NBA teams have shied away from bolstering their front courts recently. The Spurs would be dumb to not do the same.

There's a good chance that the team returns six of the eight "middle guys", which Manu and one of Bertans/Forbes being the only likely departures. Manu doesn't have an option, as far as I know. So if he plays next year, it will essentially be for free. That's why I don't think he'll be back. Blossom will fill one of those spots, and Porter/whatever big they draft will fill the other. So they're really looking at hoping one of Green/Anderson/the other of the Forbes-Bertans pair having to leave to get anyone else. That could happen, but even if it does, there's no reason to believe it has to be anyone special. There's always a pretty large number of those guys who end up in the d-league or at low-salary guys.

I agree with DPG that they'll be looking for overall talent more than just a position. But they'll need to build a roster both for next year and the future. When I look at current fits next to LMA and long-term fits with Murray and White, I see guys like Williams and Porter far and away better choices.

[objective]

Even if the Spurs got the #1 pick for Kawhi, they lose the trade. Kawhi is that good.

But if it has to be done, it has to be done.

Hopefully some team realizes how good he is and how much of a risk draft picks are.

Maybe McDunnough in Phoenix wins #1, realizes his job security isn't too hot, and trusts the Suns medical staff to fix the phantom pain Kawhi has (which would probably be fine wherever he goes). Guaranteed playoffs. I'd take #1 and filler like Jared Dudley, maybe Jackson has to be a part of it.

Because for as much hype as #1 picks get:

Towns just barely got into the playoffs and that's with two max money wings (including a #1 pick) and a big money prime point guard and a big name coach.

Davis has barely been enough to squeak in twice in all his years.

Kyrie was nothing before Lebron.

As a Spur fan I would be devastated because Kawhi is that top tier superstar, but I get sick of seeing the media puke out that these crap trades like a mid-lotto and trash for Kawhi. Kevin Love got the #1 pick, and that pick hasn't done anything but make money.

[duncan2150]

Here are some guys that may go around that time . . .

Khyri Thomas 6-3 210 PG/SG Creighton Jr.
Gary Trent Jr. 6-6 215 SG Duke Fr.
Lonnie Walker 6-4 200 SG Miami Fr.
Robert Williams 6-9 240 PF/C Texas A&M So.

Walker looks kind of interesting as a shooter. Williams has been commented on above.

I like thos guys except Gary Trent, Walker looks like a good energizing guard and Thomas is a very good defender who can score. But some people believe we can draft another PG/SG with murray or white on the roster ?

same thing i don't think we'll draft a center with mulitinov maybe coming next summer.

[BackHome]

We would all like the nightmare to end and Kawhi come back like nothing happened. But I just don’t see it happening his Uncle is pissing Pop off and we know Pop does not play welll with player agents who play games. So while it may suck if we have to trade him we should get a very high draft picks plus one or two skilled players. I can live with that and if this has to happen you get the best deal for the Spurs not for Kawhi.

If we do the trade we need wings who can handle the ball create offense and play defense. So right off the bat I am looking at releasing or trading Forbes, Green, Tony, and Mills. So that leaves us with White, Murray, and Manu and maybe Hillard at PG/SG position. So hopefully through trade or draft we can shore up the PG/SG position.

The next biggest need is offcourse SF so either draft and trade we can shore up this position. We could also bring in Hanga or Nemanja for tryouts this summer see if they might work out. And no Blossom is not even close to being NBA ready he needs one year.

Now moving to bigs PF hopefully Rudy Opts in and we still have Anderson I can play defense just don’t ask me to shoot the ball. Or Bertans I’ll shoot the ball biut weak on defense. Again have to be smart with what we can get for Kawhi trade. So for sure got LMA and Rudy, and maybe Anderson if he learns how to score.

Next is Center if I have to I can live with Gasol for one more year but no way am I keeping Joffrey. For this position I am would just bring Nikola over he has had a good year and getting better each year.

[cd98]

Spurs need to draft a new starting small forward.

[davi78239]

They'll waste it on Eurotrash

[MannyIsGod]

As for the actual tank - yes, I am in a rush to get there. The sooner the process starts, the sooner it ends. But that's also because I have higher standards than mediocrity. Sadly, that's not a value shared with many posters.

Only if you find a franchise player. I know that the Spurs have been insanely lucky with that, but it's not always going to be a David Robinson or Tim Ducan. There are far more Greg Odens and the like out there than franchise players.

Where's the franchise player at 14?

This also currently ignores that the Spurs can definitely stay competitive as built. You can deny that, but the results on the court show that's the case.

[Kawhitstorm]

we need a modern center tbh... right now we're looking at Pau and Joff. just no

They have one on the roster, his name is Aldridge (the team needs a modern day 4 like PJ Tucker:sleep)

[ElNono]

Typical ":cry Aldridge ball isn't winning ball :cry" take. The Spurs had eight players who switched between SG, SF and PF this year, and that's not including Forbes, Murray or LMA. Kawhi and his 30-plus mpg were missing, which made it look like wing depth was a problem. I've nothing against the idea of letting go of guys like Bryn and getting bigger dudes in there, or the idea of moving on from guys who can't shoot and getting guys who can. But ultimately, the lack of bigs hurt the team more, and it could have been even worse had LMA not been such an iron man.

You've continued to erroneously paint me as this traditionalist, anti-analytics guy, and I'll resist refuting that again for the sake of not derailing the thread. However, the team is going to play big from time to time to maximize their advantage, so strictly counting on three bigs isn't going to work, especially seeing as the top two are getting up there in age. That's also ignoring that Joff could well opt out of a min deal and Costello may not have to take a two-way deal again. Getting a) Fresh blood to groom for Pau's rotation spot in 2019 and b) a big who can play with the bench better than Joff is important. None of the "modern" NBA teams have shied away from bolstering their front courts recently. The Spurs would be dumb to not do the same.

There's a good chance that the team returns six of the eight "middle guys", which Manu and one of Bertans/Forbes being the only likely departures. Manu doesn't have an option, as far as I know. So if he plays next year, it will essentially be for free. That's why I don't think he'll be back. Blossom will fill one of those spots, and Porter/whatever big they draft will fill the other. So they're really looking at hoping one of Green/Anderson/the other of the Forbes-Bertans pair having to leave to get anyone else. That could happen, but even if it does, there's no reason to believe it has to be anyone special. There's always a pretty large number of those guys who end up in the d-league or at low-salary guys.

I agree with DPG that they'll be looking for overall talent more than just a position. But they'll need to build a roster both for next year and the future. When I look at current fits next to LMA and long-term fits with Murray and White, I see guys like Williams and Porter far and away better choices.

Manu signed a two year deal last summer, so he has a guaranteed $2.5m contract for next season (18-19), unless he retires.

[Thomas82]

Mitchell Robinson has to be the guy. 7'1 with shoes. 5-star recruit who didn't go to college, therefore will most likely be there at 18/19. Experts rate him as the best rim protector in his class and he's great at running the floor. The foundation for having a jumpshot is there too.

Just hope it's not Grayson Allen, DiVincenzo, or Dzanan Musa. Gross....

I'm with you 100% on that one!!

[Chinook]

Manu signed a two year deal last summer, so he has a guaranteed $2.5m contract for next season (18-19), unless he retires.

He has that guaranteed even if he retires (just like Tim did). That's why it seems he's going to hang them up. He'll get the same money either way.

[BD24]

havent been following college basketball this year and draftexpress is gone...
Someone may have already posted this, but don't really care to read through the whole thread. Here you go though OP

http://www.nbadraft.net/

[BD24]

Alot of good bigs in this draft, unfortunately most of them will be gone by the time we pick. Lottery, especially the top 10 is full of them.

[Thomas82]

Alot of good bigs in this draft, unfortunately most of them will be gone by the time we pick. Lottery, especially the top 10 is full of them.

I really hope we can get our hands on one. I would be pissed if we took another guard this year.

[keithington1]

I really hope we can get our hands on one. I would be pissed if we took another guard this year. We need players who can put the ball in the basket. We should probably draft a SG, SF.

[Thomas82]

We need players who can put the ball in the basket. We should probably draft a SG, SF.

We also need somebody to protect the basket.

[BD24]

I really hope we can get our hands on one. I would be pissed if we took another guard this year.
Maybe we get lucky and one of them drops, pretty doubtful though.

Ayton, Bagley, Porter, Jaren Jackson, and Bamba are all really good bigs. Unfourtanetly they will all most likely be picked in the top 10. We might get lucky and have Robert Williams or Mitchell Robinson drop to us though. Given Robinson is very high risk - high reward. Williams is more of the sure thing and could probably contribute fairly early, at least on the defensive end, his huge wingspan would pair nicely with our other players as well.

[keithington1]

We also need somebody to protect the basket.We have Militunnov overseas. The Spurs problem really is scoring and playmaking. Keep an eye on Mitchell Robinson

[Thomas82]

We have Militunnov overseas. The Spurs problem really is scoring and playmaking. Keep an eye on Mitchell Robinson

Mitchell Robinson is actually who I want us to draft.

[keithington1]

Mitchell Robinson is actually who I want us to draft. my worry is he hasn't played any college ball. He's not NBA ready more than likely and it's hard to see Pop draft someone like that.

[BatManu20]

Mitchell Robinson is actually who I want us to draft.

I think he goes in the Top 16 before it’s all said and done.

[BatManu20]

Anfernee Simmons is my guy. Wouldn’t be ready for a couple years though.

[coachmac87]

*IF Kawhi doesn't sign an extension this offseason and the Spurs decide to start taking offers, then I think this would be the best case scenario for Spurs fans...

Sixers get: Kawhi Leonard

Spurs get: Lakers pick (Mikal Bridges), Markelle Fultz, and Dario Saric

Then with the 18/19th pick they can draft Mitchell Robinson who is the perfect modern day Center and exactly what the Spurs need. In this scenario Murray would have to be human sacrifice in any deal to salary dump Gasol or Mills.

Next year's roster would look like this, hopefully.

Aldridge/Robinson
Saric/Gay
Bridges/Ginobili
Green/White
Fultz/Parker



This post just proves you’re an idiot...

[DAF86]

Typical ":cry Aldridge ball isn't winning ball :cry" take. The Spurs had eight players who switched between SG, SF and PF this year, and that's not including Forbes, Murray or LMA. Kawhi and his 30-plus mpg were missing, which made it look like wing depth was a problem. I've nothing against the idea of letting go of guys like Bryn and getting bigger dudes in there, or the idea of moving on from guys who can't shoot and getting guys who can. But ultimately, the lack of bigs hurt the team more, and it could have been even worse had LMA not been such an iron man.

You've continued to erroneously paint me as this traditionalist, anti-analytics guy, and I'll resist refuting that again for the sake of not derailing the thread. However, the team is going to play big from time to time to maximize their advantage, so strictly counting on three bigs isn't going to work, especially seeing as the top two are getting up there in age. That's also ignoring that Joff could well opt out of a min deal and Costello may not have to take a two-way deal again. Getting a) Fresh blood to groom for Pau's rotation spot in 2019 and b) a big who can play with the bench better than Joff is important. None of the "modern" NBA teams have shied away from bolstering their front courts recently. The Spurs would be dumb to not do the same.

There's a good chance that the team returns six of the eight "middle guys", which Manu and one of Bertans/Forbes being the only likely departures. Manu doesn't have an option, as far as I know. So if he plays next year, it will essentially be for free. That's why I don't think he'll be back. Blossom will fill one of those spots, and Porter/whatever big they draft will fill the other. So they're really looking at hoping one of Green/Anderson/the other of the Forbes-Bertans pair having to leave to get anyone else. That could happen, but even if it does, there's no reason to believe it has to be anyone special. There's always a pretty large number of those guys who end up in the d-league or at low-salary guys.

I agree with DPG that they'll be looking for overall talent more than just a position. But they'll need to build a roster both for next year and the future. When I look at current fits next to LMA and long-term fits with Murray and White, I see guys like Williams and Porter far and away better choices.

You really don't know Manu if you think money will be the deciding factor for him to keep playing or not. Unless his game completely vanishes during these playoffs, he will probably come back for one more year considering how he did this year and the things he said he felt about his game. So no, I don't think Manu is a likely departure.

Bertans probably is, unfortunately.

Forbes should be.

If Green doesn't opt in (which is far from a given, imho), he is probably out too.

Anderson depends on his price tag, I don't know why you paint his stay as a sure thing. And like I said: anything above 5 mil per year would be overpaying, imho. But PATFO gave Mills 10 mil per and Gasol 17, so you never know with them.

Heck, even Rudy could be gone.

On top of that, the collection of wings that the Spurs have is subpar, every single one of them has a major flaw. The one that can't shoot is a midget, the one that can't move laterally can't dribble, the one that isn't 42 years old is a scrub that doesn't even get minutes. The Spurs FO needs to take advantage of the fact that most of them are free agents, or potential free agents, and let them go. Signing Forbes to any kind of deal, or overpaying for Anderson, would be a huge mistake.

[keithington1]

Anfernee Simmons is my guy. Wouldn’t be ready for a couple years though. I like him too even thought he's a PG. I don't think Pop would draft someone who didn't play in college. I was looking at the stats and Freshman Lonnie Walker is comoztable to Sophomore Donovan Mitchell. All three guys are around 6'4"

[ElNono]

He has that guaranteed even if he retires (just like Tim did). That's why it seems he's going to hang them up. He'll get the same money either way.

so if he doesn't retire, he wouldn't be playing for free...

[Thomas82]

my worry is he hasn't played any college ball. He's not NBA ready more than likely and it's hard to see Pop draft someone like that.

If he's available, I don't see how we can pass on him.

[Thomas82]

I think he goes in the Top 16 before it’s all said and done.

Maybe so, but I actually saw a few mocks projecting us to take him.

[ElNono]

You really don't know Manu if you think money will be the deciding factor for him to keep playing or not. Unless his game completely vanishes during these playoffs, he will probably come back for one more year considering how he did this year and the things he said he felt about his game. So no, I don't think Manu is a likely departure.

Bertans probably is, unfortunately.

Forbes should be.

If Green doesn't opt in (which is far from a given, imho), he is probably out too.

Anderson depends on his price tag, I don't know why you paint his stay as a sure thing. And like I said: anything above 5 mil per year would be overpaying, imho. But PATFO gave Mills 10 mil per and Gasol 17, so you never know with them.

Heck, even Rudy could be gone.

On top of that, the collection of wings that the Spurs have is subpar, every single one of them has a major flaw. The one that can't shoot is a midget, the one that can't move laterally can't dribble, the one that isn't 42 years old is a scrub that doesn't even get minutes. The Spurs FO needs to take advantage of the fact that most of them are free agents, or potential free agents, and let them go. Signing Forbes to any kind of deal, or overpaying for Anderson, would be a huge mistake.

None of this matter much until the situation with Kawhi is sorted out, tbh...

And yeah, I'm afraid PATFO might be in love with Fathead, which pretty much guarantees we won't be competitive for a number of seasons, with or without Kawhi, tbh...

[Chinook]

so if he doesn't retire, he wouldn't be playing for free...

Yes, he would. He'd get the money regardless, so he's not going to be getting paid to play.

[keithington1]

If he's available, I don't see how we can pass on him.Because Pop likes humility

[ElNono]

Yes, he would. He'd get the money regardless, so he's not going to be getting paid to play.

Oh you mean free as him getting 'free money' whether he plays or not. I thought you meant he would play for free (as in, not receive compensation).

[SAGirl]

so if he doesn't retire, he wouldn't be playing for free...
He wouldn’t get anything additional whether he plays or not (beyond what’s already guaranteed to him... that is)

[tim_duncan_fan]

what positions you guys think we have To draft ?

Lol all of them.

[SAGirl]

None of this matter much until the situation with Kawhi is sorted out, tbh...

And yeah, I'm afraid PATFO might be in love with Fathead, which pretty much guarantees we won't be competitive for a number of seasons, with or without Kawhi, tbh...
:lol

[Chinook]

You really don't know Manu if you think money will be the deciding factor for him to keep playing or not. Unless his game completely vanishes during these playoffs, he will probably come back for one more year considering how he did this year and the things he said he felt about his game. So no, I don't think Manu is a likely departure.

:lmao Don't give me this "Manu's bigger than money" comment. Dude took $14 Million at 39 years of age.

Manu didn't sign a two-year deal with the plan to play both years. I know this seems counter-intuitive, but he wanted to play next year, he would have signed a one-year deal with an option. Doing that would have given him the flexibility to opt out and get more money while also giving the team a chance to renounce him for cap space (since they could give him a new min deal even if they went over the cap). It does nobody good for Manu to take the deal he did if he plan wasn't to retire. Obviously, he could change his mind, and perhaps this season has made him do that. But if he does come back, it will be for no more money than he will make not playing. It's not realistic to think he's going to do that, regardless of the conceit of pretending Argentinians are the only folks who can understand Manu after the dude has been with the team for so long.


Bertans probably is, unfortunately.

Forbes should be.

If Green doesn't opt in (which is far from a given, imho), he is probably out too.

Anderson depends on his price tag, I don't know why you paint his stay as a sure thing. And like I said: anything above 5 mil per year would be overpaying, imho. But PATFO gave Mills 10 mil per and Gasol 17, so you never know with them.

Heck, even Rudy could be gone.

The Spurs will know on Green and Rudy before the draft. They'll probably know on Kawhi too. They can definitely keep at least one of Anderson/Bertans if they want to. You throw in Blossomgame, White and Paul, and you really don't have that much uncertainty. Moreover, the team will have a lot of flexibility to replace any of those guys who leave in free agency, and they will have to do that rather than just drafting. Gay, Green and Anderson are rotation players. You aren't asking a rookie to fill those slots.


On top of that, the collection of wings that the Spurs have is subpar, every single one of them has a major flaw. The one that can't shoot is a midget, the one that can't move laterally can't dribble, the one that isn't 42 years old is a scrub that doesn't even get minutes. The Spurs FO needs to take advantage of the fact that most of them are free agents, or potential free agents, and let them go. Signing Forbes to any kind of deal, or overpaying for Anderson, would be a huge mistake.

The Spurs wings are fine. Shit, they're more than fine. Kawhi's loss has made everyone look worse. But if this rotation were healthy, it would be:

Murray, Ginobili
Leonard, Green
Anderson, Gay

Golden State is the only team that can argue it has a better rotation than that. I shudder to think how shit Houston's middle guys would be without Harden. Murray isn't going anywhere. Kawhi being traded is going to cause a cascade of changes that will result in a new starting SF among other things. White's ready to replace Manu. Gay's role as a go-to scorer will be replaced by an MLE vet, because it's too important to leave open. If Anderson leaves, you put Bertans there. They aren't both going to leave. Green's is the only role you might consider using a pick on, but even that would either be filled with a Kawhi trade or by a competition between guys like Paul and Blossomgame. It's not a critical spot.

I can't imagine what you'd be saying about the big rotation had LMA been the guy out all year and they run with Gasol and Joff getting big minutes.

[BD24]

Mitchell Robinson will be a project. He likely won’t be ready to contribute for two to three years tbh.

[Chinook]

Oh you mean free as him getting 'free money' whether he plays or not. I thought you meant he would play for free (as in, not receive compensation).

I would have meant that if I'd said he was "literally playing for free". I said "essentially" because him playing doesn't earn him any more money than him retiring would.

[FireMicoHalili]

The last time the Spurs drafted this high without having to trade up produced James Anderson. The Spurs missed out on Quincy Pondexter and Hassan Whiteside. Pondexter can probably come here as an FA and Whiteside was a gamble because of his on-court issues. Another dud was Livio Jean-Charles. Spurs narrowly missed out on Gobert, Crabbe, and Abrines. The draft will always be a crap shoot. I’d rather have Jokic over Kyle Anderson any day but there aren’t a lot of players I’d give up Kyle for between the 30th and 41st.

As an aside there’s always someone from the slated top 15 picks that falls. Spurs had the luxury of choosing among Murray, Deyonta Davis, and Brogdon. In hindsight Brogdon would’ve been nice, but Murray’s upside is showing its benefits and Pop’s investment seems to be paying off. I’m not saying I fully trust their draft strategy (at some point almost traded for Valanciunas) but they seem to do better than most. I just hope it’s not some cookie cutter white American kid whose value the NCAA improved by nationally televised games. DiVincenzo, Grayson Allen....just no.

[FireMicoHalili]

White American kids aren’t doing so great in the NBA tbh. Only white American kid in the ASG was Kevin Love. All the white people in the Rising Stars Challenge came from overseas. Zach Collins, Luke Kennard, TJ Leaf all look like they’ll be out of the league in 3-4 years. Unless you have extremely great shooting like Korver or Novak (lol) you’ll probably have a hard time carving out a career in the NBA. Guys like Grayson Allen and Donte DiVincenzo shouldn’t even be considered unless they fall in the second round.

[sananspursfan21]

Isn’t Kostas Antena..not even gonna try to spell the name, Giannis’s brother entering the draft? Probably doesn’t fall that far but he’s supposed to be the best shooter of the Antenaki brothers

[ElNono]

:lmao Don't give me this "Manu's bigger than money" comment. Dude took $14 Million at 39 years of age.

I don't get this line of argument, tbh... he took what the market said he was worth then, he also left money on the table at age 37 and possibly earlier than that too... It's not a situation like Parker who was always extended to the max allowed by the CBA...

That said, Manu coming back or not will likely have way more to do with how he feels than anything else, including Kawhi... I also fully expect Pop to tell him he wants him back next season, like it's been happening the last couple of times...

[Chinook]

I don't get this line of argument, tbh...

Yes you do.


he took what the market said he was worth then, he also left money on the table at age 37 and possibly earlier than that too...

Taking market value doesn't show money isn't important to you. And that's ignoring that by your definition, a player can never make more than market value.


It's not a situation like Parker who was always extended to the max allowed by the CBA...

Parker took a discount in his prime (the $50M/4 extension he signed prior to his current contract; his salary for each of those years was lower than salary he had the year before the extension). Manu, on the other hand, took the max in 2010 with all the bells and whistles thrown in after hinting that he'd leave that summer had the team not complied.


That said, Manu coming back or not will likely have way more to do with how he feels than anything else, including Kawhi... I also fully expect Pop to tell him he wants him back next season, like it's been happening the last couple of times...

I'm not going to say Manu will retire. That gets into prediction, and that's lame AF. All I can say is that he did not sign a contract one would sign if they intended to leave open the possibility of coming back another year.

[raybies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G0JrtkWreI

[duncan2150]

Difficult To say something about Mitchell Robinson as he didn’t play At least in NCAA.

He looks like mobile but a little thin so i don’t know if he can defend nba bigs. Shooting form is a akward but he can make some outside shots. Intriguing prospect.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't get this line of argument, tbh... he took what the market said he was worth then, he also left money on the table at age 37 and possibly earlier than that too... It's not a situation like Parker who was always extended to the max allowed by the CBA...

That said, Manu coming back or not will likely have way more to do with how he feels than anything else, including Kawhi... I also fully expect Pop to tell him he wants him back next season, like it's been happening the last couple of times...


I love Manu, but I hate when you fucks do this. Decades of having to listen to this bullshit and its REALLY annoying when its factually incorrect. Just fucking stop already.

[ElNono]

Yes you do.

No I don't.


Taking market value doesn't show money isn't important to you. And that's ignoring that by your definition, a player can never make more than market value.

Taking market value means you got paid what you were worth, AND in addition, he left money on the table to help the franchise, and we're not talking a few bucks. You know this, I don't really need to point it out.


Parker took a discount in his prime (the $50M/4 extension he signed prior to his current contract; his salary for each of those years was lower than salary he had the year before the extension). Manu, on the other hand, took the max in 2010 with all the bells and whistles thrown in after hinting that he'd leave that summer had the team not complied.

It was for the same (more actually) than Manu, who did take the max that time (Tony $50m/4, Manu 39.8/3). But why don't you go forward? What happened after that max extension? $7.5m, $7m, $2.8m, while Tony was (and still is) making upwards of $10m...

So don't tell me Manu didn't leave money on the table to give the team a lift. So did Duncan, BTW.


I'm not going to say Manu will retire. That gets into prediction, and that's lame AF. All I can say is that he did not sign a contract one would sign if they intended to leave open the possibility of coming back another year.

Well, honestly, I wish he would retire because he has nothing left to prove, and you don't want to retire looking like Tony, tbh... on the other hand, if you know anything about Manu, he probably would feel embarrassed of cashing checks and not working for them, so that, and the fact he had a solid season, actually makes me think he might come back for another rodeo.

[ElNono]

I love Manu, but I hate when you fucks do this. Decades of having to listen to this bullshit and its REALLY annoying when its factually incorrect. Just fucking stop already.

:lol

[TheGreatYacht]

This post just proves you’re an idiot...
Go make a podcast so your grandma can hear about it, high school coach.

[Chinook]

No I don't.

Yes you do. It's not a hard concept. You can disagree with it if you want.


Taking market value means you got paid what you were worth

You're conflating terms here. Market value is what you can command on the market. It is not how you stack up in comparison to other players in the league. Manu got what he could get and thusly got his market value. That showed money was important to him. What he didn't get was just what he was due. He got at least twice as much as that.


he left money on the table to help the franchise, and we're not talking a few bucks

Doesn't mean he didn't care a lot about money. Tim opted into a deal knowing he wasn't going to play that year to get the money. He cared about money too. Manu would not have taken one-year deals recently had he not cared about money.


It was for the same (more actually) than Manu, who did take the max that time (Tony $50m/4, Manu 39.8/3).

It was not the same for Manu. Manu took the max; Tony didn't. Tony gave up more than $10 Million over the life of that deal. Manu took every cent and got a trade kicker. Ginobili literally could not have gotten more in an extension. We've been through this exact conversation at least twice over the years. Manu didn't give up money until he got quite old. The closest he came was that rumored Denver deal, though that was never supported.


But why don't you go forward? What happened after that max extension? $7.5m, $7m, $2.8m, while Tony was (and still is) making upwards of $10m

$7Mish was Manu's value back then. We (meaning me and some guys like Mel and Bruno) hashed it out when Manu signed that contract. Guards his age with his production and impact were making that much back then. It felt like a discount because he had been overpaid the year before. By the time he actually took a legit paycut, he was 38 years old. When he was Tony's age, he was making almost as much against a cap almost half the size it is now. To put it into perspective, at the same age where Tony wants to retire, Manu was making $14 Million.


Well, honestly, I wish he would retire because he has nothing left to prove, and you don't want to retire looking like Tony, tbh... on the other hand, if you know anything about Manu, he probably would feel embarrassed of cashing checks and not working for them, so that, and the fact he had a solid season, actually makes me think he might come back for another rodeo.

Again this conceit. Manu took an option year on his room-exception 2015 contract. The whole point of doing that was so he could get deferred salary in case retired. That doesn't make him a bad guy (Tim did it), and deferring salary can be seen as good thing even. But no amount of "Manu's from my homeland, so I know him best" changes how these contracts work. A Ginobili who felt the way some fans think he does would not have taken that second year.

Not to mention that even if Manu decided he didn't want to be paid to not play, he could agree to leave that money on the table in a buyout.

[tbdog]

Anderson depends on his price tag, I don't know why you paint his stay as a sure thing. And like I said: anything above 5 mil per year would be overpaying, imho. But PATFO gave Mills 10 mil per and Gasol 17, so you never know with them.




Warren, Solomon Hill, James Johnson, Snell, Harkless, MKG, Ingles, Brogdonvaic are some SF names that recently gotten 10mil p/y plus contracts. Even veterans like Vince and Joe Johnston got 8mil and 9mil. To ask Kyle to take 5 mil playcut is awfully insulting. If he took TJ Tucker money 8mil, then that would be a huge discount. I dare say 10mil per year is right market price. Some of those guys I mentioned are getting 14mil.

[CGD]

It will be demoralizing as a fan if the spurs stand pat this draft/offseason. Even with Kawhi back, they can’t just roll it back with just a new redshirt rook and maybe Mulitinov, and call it an off-season. I hope they’re agressive with the pick and otherwise.

[TheGreatYacht]

Warren, Solomon Hill, James Johnson, Snell, Harkless, MKG, Ingles, Brogdonvaic are some SF names that recently gotten 10mil p/y plus contracts. Even veterans like Vince and Joe Johnston got 8mil and 9mil. To ask Kyle to take 5 mil playcut is awfully insulting. If he took TJ Tucker money 8mil, then that would be a huge discount. I dare say 10mil per year is right market price. Some of those guys I mentioned are getting 14mil.
:lol all of those guys except for Solomon Hill are better than Fathead

[BackHome]

What team other then the Spurs would want Anderson?

[lebomb]

Mitchell Robinson..........

I shook his hand at a AAU tourney in New Orleans. Dude needs to put on some weight. He is like a taller Dejountay Murray, not skill wise, but build. Very, very thin. I also wonder about his basketball IQ. He didnt want to go to college because of doing the class work. :rolleyes

That worries me, and I wonder if it worries Pop. :claw

[BackHome]

Someone will take a chance on him but it won’t be the Spurs.

[SAGirl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G0JrtkWreI
looks too skinny.
tell me he is at least beefier right now.

[ElNono]

You're conflating terms here. Market value is what you can command on the market. It is not how you stack up in comparison to other players in the league. Manu got what he could get and thusly got his market value. That showed money was important to him. What he didn't get was just what he was due. He got at least twice as much as that.

Market value is what the market offered for you, and then the Spurs get to choose to match, or improve that offer. That's what sets your value in that situation, and that's exactly what transpired. That's why there's a ton of overpaid or underpaid players (market had money or dried up). Conversely, players that never got into a FA situation have a difficult time assessing their real market value, and thus why some players like to go and test the waters, even if ultimately stick around.


Doesn't mean he didn't care a lot about money. Tim opted into a deal knowing he wasn't going to play that year to get the money. He cared about money too. Manu would not have taken one-year deals recently had he not cared about money.

I don't think Tim knew at all he was going to retire that year when he signed his deal. The fact that his knee got worse, I don't think entered the picture when he stamped that deal. Heck, if we're going to speculate, I would guess Tim would still be playing if his body didn't betray him, and has nothing to do with money.


It was not the same for Manu. Manu took the max; Tony didn't. Tony gave up more than $10 Million over the life of that deal. Manu took every cent and got a trade kicker. Ginobili literally could not have gotten more in an extension. We've been through this exact conversation at least twice over the years. Manu didn't give up money until he got quite old. The closest he came was that rumored Denver deal, though that was never supported.

What do you mean never supported? You just didn't even bother to look.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34132-2004Jul7.html

And of course his value was still rather high even when he aged. He's an exceptional, impactful player. The Philly offer does nothing but prove the point that he likely would've gotten more as a FA, if he actually cared about the bills more than the Spurs.


$7Mish was Manu's value back then. We (meaning me and some guys like Mel and Bruno) hashed it out when Manu signed that contract. Guards his age with his production and impact were making that much back then. It felt like a discount because he had been overpaid the year before. By the time he actually took a legit paycut, he was 38 years old. When he was Tony's age, he was making almost as much against a cap almost half the size it is now. To put it into perspective, at the same age where Tony wants to retire, Manu was making $14 Million.

No it wasn't, and you know it wasn't. Top SGs like Wade, Allen were making twice as much. Not even going to mention Kobe.


Again this conceit. Manu took an option year on his room-exception 2015 contract. The whole point of doing that was so he could get deferred salary in case retired. That doesn't make him a bad guy (Tim did it), and deferring salary can be seen as good thing even. But no amount of "Manu's from my homeland, so I know him best" changes how these contracts work. A Ginobili who felt the way some fans think he does would not have taken that second year.

Dude, has nothing to do with homeland. Heck, if he would be anything like the average Argie, he'll take the money and fake an injury for the rest of the season. That's exactly why DAF and I bring it up, he's anything but the average Argie, that's why he stands out like a sore thumb.

You're speculating that he asked for $5m or that he asked for the 2nd year, but neither of us know that. I could totally see Pop structuring the deal like that to keep 'culture' and 'corporate knowledge' around.


Not to mention that even if Manu decided he didn't want to be paid to not play, he could agree to leave that money on the table in a buyout.

That could be an option, but I don't think (not sure, would have to look if the CBA says anything about it) he could be bought out for $0.

[SAGirl]

What team other then the Spurs would want Anderson?
You will find out in the summer. He's not as hated as spurtroll who hates him. I have seen Knicksfan want him, but that's incidental to some other discussion, they really want to play Hardaway as a SG and get a wing with better size for SF. Kyle's in their price range.

[FireMicoHalili]

You will find out in the summer. He's not as hated as spurtroll who hates him. I have seen Knicksfan want him, but that's incidental to some other discussion, they really want to play Hardaway as a SG and get a wing with better size for SF. Kyle's in their price range.
I’m sure SA would love to keep him at a reasonable price range but holy mother of ducks do Spurs players play so awfully getting paid after the contract year. Splitter, Diaw, Mills all saw their production levels dip after getting rewarded with long-term contracts. Granted Pop really knows how to milk these guys’ contract years, it’s so despicable to see players get complacent after getting a pay day. Expecting the same with Anderson next year, and more so especially if Kawhi returns. They’ll be paying for stats he put up this season for bench production the next few years.

[BackHome]

Anderson is not a SF that ship has sailed. I like him at PF but man the kid is scarred to shoot the ball every time he gets a pass even when shot clock is low he passes the ball.

[SAGirl]

Anderson is not a SF that ship has sailed. I like him at PF but man the kid is scarred to shoot the ball every time he gets a pass even when shot clock is low he passes the ball.
as I said you will find out in the summer.

[mo7888]

Kyle is a valuable player imo. I do agree that his reluctance to shoot lowers is ceiling though and I think he's much better as a PF. It only takes one team to set the market though. If I'm the spurs 8M is as far as I'd go.

[DPG21920]

Trade the pick and anyone not named LMA or Kawhi for Kemba

[Chinook]

Market value is what the market offered for you, and then the Spurs get to choose to match, or improve that offer. That's what sets your value in that situation, and that's exactly what transpired. That's why there's a ton of overpaid or underpaid players (market had money or dried up). Conversely, players that never got into a FA situation have a difficult time assessing their real market value, and thus why some players like to go and test the waters, even if ultimately stick around.

This assumes a team can't or won't overpay for a guy. I don't disagree that with your idea of market value, btb. What I disagree with is you conflating that with a player not being money-oriented. Manu's agent specifically said his client was looking at that 2016 splurge and gunning for a huge deal. So someone giving him that deal doesn't all of the sudden make Manu not finance oriented.


I don't think Tim knew at all he was going to retire that year when he signed his deal. The fact that his knee got worse, I don't think entered the picture when he stamped that deal. Heck, if we're going to speculate, I would guess Tim would still be playing if his body didn't betray him, and has nothing to do with money.

He knew he might retire, which is why he put in the option year. Tim had to actively take the option, then retire. It wasn't a big mysterious thing, either. The Spurs immediately pursued Pau about a week later because they knew Tim was gone. Had Tim been feeling all right, he would have opted out just like Manu did.


No it wasn't, and you know it wasn't. Top SGs like Wade, Allen were making twice as much. Not even going to mention Kobe.

Manu wasn't a top SG at 36 coming off a horrible series. I know that's hard for you to accept, but comparing him to Heatles Wade is ridiculous, especially considering that Wade was still on a contract he signed in his prime as a superstar. Ray Allen was making just over $3 Million that year, so don't use him. Kobe was in Wade's position and was on a whole different level in terms of franchise importance and leverage for a deal.


Dude, has nothing to do with homeland. Heck, if he would be anything like the average Argie, he'll take the money and fake an injury for the rest of the season. That's exactly why DAF and I bring it up, he's anything but the average Argie, that's why he stands out like a sore thumb.

It has everything to do with "the homeland" and the conceit of thinking that means you know him better than a typical SA person does. I'm glad that you guys like his character, and I like it too for the most part. Him taking this money isn't a big deal, though. It's something both sides knew going in.


You're speculating that he asked for $5m or that he asked for the 2nd year, but neither of us know that. I could totally see Pop structuring the deal like that to keep 'culture' and 'corporate knowledge' around.

I'm "speculating" he signed a two-year min deal for the same reason most vets near the ends of their careers do: To get extra money while being able to fit onto a capped-out roster. The whole point of a player option is to guarantee money in case of a down-turn. That's why guys like Joff and West did it (and I know Joff is young). What you don't see vets do is sign multi-year vet contracts unless their stock is uber-low, for all the reasons I've already explained. Manu taking that deal with the intention to play it out makes no sense for him or the team. Two separate one-year deals save the club money (almost half the total value of the contract would have been reimbursed by the league) and gives them flexibility, while allowing Manu to change his compensation if he feels that's warranted. That is how a guy who doesn't care about money and a team work together, not by doing what he did.


That could be an option, but I don't think (not sure, would have to look if the CBA says anything about it) he could be bought out for $0.

Oh course he could. Kidd did that his final year with the Knicks.

[Chinook]

What do you mean never supported? You just didn't even bother to look.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34132-2004Jul7.html

And of course his value was still rather high even when he aged. He's an exceptional, impactful player. The Philly offer does nothing but prove the point that he likely would've gotten more as a FA, if he actually cared about the bills more than the Spurs.

I missed this. That WaPo article does not suggest the Nuggets offered more money, which is what some fans point to when they say Manu left money on the table. If the Spurs did give Manu as much as Denver did, then Manu didn't take a discount until he reached 38 years of age. Not very altruistic at all.

Philly only offered him a one-year deal at that rate. The next year, they offered JJ Redick almost twice that much. I don't think that demonstrates Manu's "high value" much at all.

[DAF86]

:lmao Don't give me this "Manu's bigger than money" comment. Dude took $14 Million at 39 years of age.

Manu didn't sign a two-year deal with the plan to play both years. I know this seems counter-intuitive, but he wanted to play next year, he would have signed a one-year deal with an option. Doing that would have given him the flexibility to opt out and get more money while also giving the team a chance to renounce him for cap space (since they could give him a new min deal even if they went over the cap). It does nobody good for Manu to take the deal he did if he plan wasn't to retire. Obviously, he could change his mind, and perhaps this season has made him do that. But if he does come back, it will be for no more money than he will make not playing. It's not realistic to think he's going to do that, regardless of the conceit of pretending Argentinians are the only folks who can understand Manu after the dude has been with the team for so long.

Who the fuck said Manu is bigger than money? :lol

He isn't as greedy as other players though, as we Spurs fans have come to realize this season, that's for sure.

What I'm saying is that, at this point of his career, Manu plays for pleasure. If he keeps enyoing playing basketball (like he seems to be doing right now) he won't stop playing just because he isn't going to get any extra money. Haven't you heard a single Manu's interview about the way that he looks at this retirement thing? he's not going to retire unless he's absolutely sure he wants to do it. He has the rest of his life to not play basketball anymore, instead if he retires, and then feels like he wanted to keep playing, there's no coming back.



The Spurs will know on Green and Rudy before the draft. They'll probably know on Kawhi too. They can definitely keep at least one of Anderson/Bertans if they want to. You throw in Blossomgame, White and Paul, and you really don't have that much uncertainty. Moreover, the team will have a lot of flexibility to replace any of those guys who leave in free agency, and they will have to do that rather than just drafting. Gay, Green and Anderson are rotation players. You aren't asking a rookie to fill those slots.

How are non-rotation guys like Paul, Blossomgame and White (who should be a PG anyways) not uncertainty?


The Spurs wings are fine. Shit, they're more than fine. Kawhi's loss has made everyone look worse. But if this rotation were healthy, it would be:

Murray, Ginobili
Leonard, Green
Anderson, Gay

Golden State is the only team that can argue it has a better rotation than that. I shudder to think how shit Houston's middle guys would be without Harden. Murray isn't going anywhere. Kawhi being traded is going to cause a cascade of changes that will result in a new starting SF among other things. White's ready to replace Manu. Gay's role as a go-to scorer will be replaced by an MLE vet, because it's too important to leave open. If Anderson leaves, you put Bertans there. They aren't both going to leave. Green's is the only role you might consider using a pick on, but even that would either be filled with a Kawhi trade or by a competition between guys like Paul and Blossomgame. It's not a critical spot.

I can't imagine what you'd be saying about the big rotation had LMA been the guy out all year and they run with Gasol and Joff getting big minutes.

Rockets wings outside of Harden: Gordon, Ariza, Gerald Green, Mbah Moute, Joe Johnson, P.J Tucker. Significantly better than the Spurs wing rotation minus Kawhi.

Utah: Mitchell, Ingles, Crowder, Exum.

Blazers: McCullum, Turner, Aminu, Harkless.

Wolves: Butler, Wiggins, Crowford, Bjelica.

Wizards: Beal, Porter, Morris, Satoransky, Oubre.

Bucks: Giannis, Middleton, Snell, Parker, Brogdon.

Sixers: Simmons, Reddick, Covington, Saric, Ilyasova, Bellinelli.

Celtics: Tatum, Brown, Morris, Hayward, Smart.

Cavs: Lebron, Smith, Korver, Hood, Hill, Clarkson, J.Green.

And I stopped looking because I got tired; but, yeah, the Spurs have the second best rotation of wings. :lmao

[DAF86]

Warren, Solomon Hill, James Johnson, Snell, Harkless, MKG, Ingles, Brogdonvaic are some SF names that recently gotten 10mil p/y plus contracts. Even veterans like Vince and Joe Johnston got 8mil and 9mil. To ask Kyle to take 5 mil playcut is awfully insulting. If he took TJ Tucker money 8mil, then that would be a huge discount. I dare say 10mil per year is right market price. Some of those guys I mentioned are getting 14mil.

Insulting for a guy that can't shoot and averages 8 pts on 28 minutes? Ok, he can go feel not insulted somewhere else, tbh. :lol

[BackHome]

I guess it is up to if Kawhi stays cause then you would keep him cause he doesn’t need to shoot. But if Kawhi is traded then we need more offense and he has to go.

[SAGirl]

Insulting for a guy that can't shoot and averages 8 pts on 28 minutes? Ok, he can go feel not insulted somewhere else, tbh. :lol
Roberson has only averaged 5-6 pts in almost 30 minutes per game and he makes over $10 mill a year. He's a reputable defensive player but the point is if you do other things that help a team win games games your value isn't solely determined by how much you score. Kyle's been better offensively than Roberson is not just bc he's scoring 2 pts more on good efficiency but bc he's a better passer and can make an occasional jumpshot when he has to take them and Kyle has been very good defensively this year.

Its fine if you don't value him... spurfan tends to overrate players in other teams ironically and devalue their own... and frankly he might just very well be gone, but wings nowadays once they are established are rare to get for $5 mill a season... it's just the truth.

This next summer though is really unpredictable though. I won't really venture to say how much he will get, he might end up with a similar JSimms deal for all I know, but I do think 5 mill is too low.

[DAF86]

Roberson has only averaged 5-6 pts in almost 30 minutes per game and he makes over $10 mill a year. He's a reputable defensive player but the point is if you do other things that help a team win games games your value isn't solely determined by how much you score. Kyle's been better offensively than Roberson is not just bc he's scoring 2 pts more on good efficiency but bc he's a better passer and can make an occasional jumpshot when he has to take them and Kyle has been very good defensively this year.

Its fine if you don't value him... spurfan tends to overrate players in other teams ironically and devalue their own... and frankly he might just very well be gone, but wings nowadays once they are established are rare to get for $5 mill a season... it's just the truth.

This next summer though is really unpredictable though. I won't really venture to say how much he will get, he might end up with a similar JSimms deal for all I know, but I do think 5 mill is too low.

Roberson is a defensive monster but even then that's a shitty ass contract, tbh.

[r0drig0lac]

Who the fuck said Manu is bigger than money? :lol

He isn't as greedy as other players, as we Spurs fans have come to realize this season, that's for sure.

What I'm saying is that, at this point of his career, Manu plays for pleasure. If he keeps enyoing playing basketball (like he seems to be doing right now) he won't stop playing just because he isn't going to get any extra money. Haven't you heard a single Manu's interview about the way that he looks at this retirement thing? he's not going to retire unless he's absolutely sure he wants to do it. He has the rest of his life to not play basketball anymore, instead if he retires, and then feels like he wanted to keep playing, there's no coming back.




How are non-rotation guys like Paul, Blossomgame and White (who should be a PG anyways) not uncertainty?



Rockets wings outside of Harden: Gordon, Ariza, Gerald Green, Mbah Moute, Joe Johnson, P.J Tucker. Significantly better than the Spurs wing rotation minus Kawhi.

Utah: Mitchell, Ingles, Crowder, Exum.

Blazers: McCullum, Turner, Aminu, Harkless.

Wolves: Butler, Wiggins, Crowford, Bjelica.

Wizards: Beal, Porter, Morris, Satoransky, Oubre.

Bucks: Giannis, Middleton, Snell, Parker, Brogdon.

Sixers: Simmons, Reddick, Covington, Saric, Ilyasova, Bellinelli.

Celtics: Tatum, Brown, Morris, Hayward, Smart.

Cavs: Lebron, Smith, Korver, Hood, Hill, Clarkson, J.Green.

And I stopped looking because I got tired; but, yeah, the Spurs has the second best rotation of wings. :lmao
unbelievable

[SAGirl]

Roberson is a defensive monster but even then that's a shitty ass contract, tbh.
It doesn't matter what you think, if that is his market value. Once guys are out of their rook deals they expect to get paid. He plays heavy minutes for the team so you have to pay him. Roberson is better defensively but much worse offensively and that is your tradeoff. If you had to start Roberson this year in this team, that has no stars other than Lamarcus I daresay he'd look worse than Kyle has. It is what it is... once players are out of their rookie deals you have to pay them.

The uncertainty for me lies in this market this summer and he may get squeezed out financially, it's very unpredictable to me in that sense. RFA last season lingered for a long time b4 finally signing relative short team deals with the original teams bc the market had dried up and I don't expect this market to be any better. I also think the situation for everyone this year is pretty uncertain due to Kiwi's injury. Maybe he gets traded and you get players with promise like Tatum and Brown (hypothetically speaking, bc I doubt that trade happens). So, IMO he's ready to hit FA anyways.

[DAF86]

It doesn't matter what you think, if that is his market value. Once guys are out of their rook deals they expect to get paid. He plays heavy minutes for the team so you have to pay him. Roberson is better defensively but much worse offensively and that is your tradeoff. If you had to start Roberson this year in this team, that has no stars other than Lamarcus I daresay he'd look worse than Kyle has. It is what it is... once players are out of their rookie deals you have to pay them. The uncertainty for me lies in this market this summer and he may get squeezed out financially, it's very unpredictable to me in that sense. RFA last season lingered for a long time b4 finally signing relative short team deals with the original teams bc the market had dried up and I don't expect this market to be any better. I also think the situation for everyone this year is pretty uncertain due to Kiwi's injury. Maybe he gets traded and you get players with promise like Tatum and Brown (hypothetically speaking, bc I doubt that trade happens). So, IMO he's ready to hit FA anyways.

Not necesarilly, do you think somebody else was going to pay Mills 10 millions per year or Pau 17 millions per year if the Spurs didn't? Sometimes teams just fuck up.

[ElNono]

This assumes a team can't or won't overpay for a guy. I don't disagree that with your idea of market value, btb. What I disagree with is you conflating that with a player not being money-oriented. Manu's agent specifically said his client was looking at that 2016 splurge and gunning for a huge deal. So someone giving him that deal doesn't all of the sudden make Manu not finance oriented.

He knew he might retire, which is why he put in the option year. Tim had to actively take the option, then retire. It wasn't a big mysterious thing, either. The Spurs immediately pursued Pau about a week later because they knew Tim was gone. Had Tim been feeling all right, he would have opted out just like Manu did.

Manu wasn't a top SG at 36 coming off a horrible series. I know that's hard for you to accept, but comparing him to Heatles Wade is ridiculous, especially considering that Wade was still on a contract he signed in his prime as a superstar. Ray Allen was making just over $3 Million that year, so don't use him. Kobe was in Wade's position and was on a whole different level in terms of franchise importance and leverage for a deal.

It has everything to do with "the homeland" and the conceit of thinking that means you know him better than a typical SA person does. I'm glad that you guys like his character, and I like it too for the most part. Him taking this money isn't a big deal, though. It's something both sides knew going in.

I'm "speculating" he signed a two-year min deal for the same reason most vets near the ends of their careers do: To get extra money while being able to fit onto a capped-out roster. The whole point of a player option is to guarantee money in case of a down-turn. That's why guys like Joff and West did it (and I know Joff is young). What you don't see vets do is sign multi-year vet contracts unless their stock is uber-low, for all the reasons I've already explained. Manu taking that deal with the intention to play it out makes no sense for him or the team. Two separate one-year deals save the club money (almost half the total value of the contract would have been reimbursed by the league) and gives them flexibility, while allowing Manu to change his compensation if he feels that's warranted. That is how a guy who doesn't care about money and a team work together, not by doing what he did.

Oh course he could. Kidd did that his final year with the Knicks.


I ran out of time for this discussion, tbh. Waiving the white flag. I pretty much disagree with the whole notion, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

We'll see what happens this summer, tbh...

[Chinook]

How are non-rotation guys like Paul, Blossomgame and White (who should be a PG anyways) not uncertainty?

They literally take up roster spots. That's why they matter in terms of drafting a wing. It's funny how keen you are to except White, though, looking at the rest of your post.


Gordon, Ariza, Gerald Green, Mbah Moute, Joe Johnson, P.J Tucker

Sucks. You're pumping up Gerald Green like he wasn't a min guy for a reason. I've been interested in signing him a couple of times, but he's not a needle-mover. Joe is ancient. PJ and Mbah a Moute aren't better than Anderson.


Utah: Mitchell, Ingles, Crowder, Exum.

You're starting to list people's wing rotations not excluding their best player from here on out. A healthy Kawhi is worth that whole rotation by himself. And :lol at trying to list Exum when he lost his spot to Royce fucking O'Neal.


Blazers: McCullum, Turner, Aminu, Harkless.

You're kidding if you think that's better than the Spurs' wing rotation when healthy.


Wolves: Butler, Wiggins, Crowford, Bjelica.

... Oh, you're serious? Butler is better than any Spurs wing besides Kawhi. Sure. But the rest of that rotation is hot garbage. Wiggins and Crawford are net-negatives.


Wizards: Beal, Porter, Morris, Satoransky, Oubre.

Even worse than Minny's rotation.


Bucks: Giannis, Middleton, Snell, Parker, Brogdon.

Closest you've gotten so far, because Middleton is also better than any Spurs wing besides Kawhi. I wouldn't hate too hard on the idea that this rotation is better, though listing their backup PG as a wing is weird, and Snell is hardly a needle-mover.


Sixers: Simmons, Reddick, Covington, Saric, Ilyasova, Bellinelli.

You really stretched it with Ersan and Saric, who are as much wings as Aldridge is. Assuming Simmons !> Kawhi in your book, I would say this is even at best. Covington has fallen off a bit this season. Redick too.


Celtics: Tatum, Brown, Morris, Hayward, Smart.

Just trying to pad a list at this point. Has nothing on a healthy Spurs rotation. Did you forget how good Leonard is? Why do I of all people have to remind you?


Cavs: Lebron, Smith, Korver, Hood, Hill, Clarkson, J.Green.

Lebron? Check. You've included both of the team's PGs in this list. Without them, you get a worse Gay, an ancient Korver and a net negative.


And I stopped looking because I got tired

You stopped looking because you had stretched your own confines way too far. Again, it's disturbing how comfortable you seem to be at overlooking Kawhi's impact. Almost all of those rotations are intact, so they both have their best players and the rest of the guys have the benefit of having those players take pressure off them. We got to see a fully healthy rotation once, and we never got to see them in rhythm. I know you're the most "prisoner of the moment" guy on this forum when it comes to making sweeping evaluations, but some of these aren't even debatable if we were drunk.

[Chinook]

I ran out of time for this discussion, tbh. Waiving the white flag. I pretty much disagree with the whole notion, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

We'll see what happens this summer, tbh...

Watch Manu come back now and be like "I've always intended to do this."

[duncan2k5]

looks too skinny.
tell me he is at least beefier right now.

Too skinny? Ppl said the same about KD... you never draft a player based on how much muscle they lack, because that's something that can always be easily gained... Skill is where it's at

[SAGirl]

Not necesarilly, do you think somebody else was going to pay Mills 10 millions per year or Pau 17 millions per year if the Spurs didn't? Sometimes teams just fuck up.
Pau deal occurred as a result of a negotiation with PATFO. His original deal he got in that season where the market really was inflated so it was a good market deal that year. You just have to look around at other contracts given that year and realize it was market value. He then opted out and got rewarded by PATFO for their own reasons and circumstances. PATFO gambled and lost. It sucks but it was a special situation.

Patty I didn't want back bc I think the Spurs have needed a better PG for years now and they needed at least one elite offensive guard in the team. I don't care if he was a SG or PG, but at least one of their guards had to be able to be an offensive stud. As you know Tony and Manu can't do it, on top of that limited minutes and consistency. Patty is not that guy either. But if you were going to re-sign him, he plays a lot of rotation minutes for the team so in theory he's worth at least 7 mill. 10 mill was too much and the length of the contract was appalling since he's a small guard that is 29 years old at the time he was given that deal. I don't expect him to age all that well bc while his shooting will likely not desert him what's going to happen to him when he slows down. It's more a criticism of the fact the Spurs needed a better player for that money than the contract itself.

and I think that's the objection guys like Nono have, they probably don't want Kyle back at any price. but who are you replacing him with. if you have someone better for that money by all means don't pay him. But if you want him back you have to pay him.

[ElNono]

and I think that's the objection guys like Nono have, they probably don't want Kyle back at any price. but who are you replacing him with. if you have someone better for that money by all means don't pay him. But if you want him back you have to pay him.

I don't him back and any price, but since I'm preparing to the fact that I'm going to eat a shit sammich this summer with this, if he does come back, I hope it's not for Patty kind of money.

Heck, as soon as any other team makes an offer for him, I'll chip in a couple extra millions to sweeten the deal :lol

[DAF86]

They literally take up roster spots. That's why they matter in terms of drafting a wing. It's funny how keen you are to except White, though, looking at the rest of your post.



Sucks. You're pumping up Gerald Green like he wasn't a min guy for a reason. I've been interested in signing him a couple of times, but he's not a needle-mover. Joe is ancient. PJ and Mbah a Moute aren't better than Anderson.



You're starting to list people's wing rotations not excluding their best player from here on out. A healthy Kawhi is worth that whole rotation by himself. And :lol at trying to list Exum when he lost his spot to Royce fucking O'Neal.



You're kidding if you think that's better than the Spurs' wing rotation when healthy.



... Oh, you're serious? Butler is better than any Spurs wing besides Kawhi. Sure. But the rest of that rotation is hot garbage. Wiggins and Crawford are net-negatives.



Even worse than Minny's rotation.



Closest you've gotten so far, because Middleton is also better than any Spurs wing besides Kawhi. I wouldn't hate too hard on the idea that this rotation is better, though listing their backup PG as a wing is weird, and Snell is hardly a needle-mover.



You really stretched it with Ersan and Saric, who are as much wings as Aldridge is. Assuming Simmons !> Kawhi in your book, I would say this is even at best. Covington has fallen off a bit this season. Redick too.



Just trying to pad a list at this point. Has nothing on a healthy Spurs rotation. Did you forget how good Leonard is? Why do I of all people have to remind you?



Lebron? Check. You've included both of the team's PGs in this list. Without them, you get a worse Gay, an ancient Korver and a net negative.



You stopped looking because you had stretched your own confines way too far. Again, it's disturbing how comfortable you seem to be at overlooking Kawhi's impact. Almost all of those rotations are intact, so they both have their best players and the rest of the guys have the benefit of having those players take pressure off them. We got to see a fully healthy rotation once, and we never got to see them in rhythm. I know you're the most "prisoner of the moment" guy on this forum when it comes to making sweeping evaluations, but some of these aren't even debatable if we were drunk.

I could have added OKC with George, Melo, Grant and Abrines. If I look deep into, I'm sure I will also come to the conclusion that teams like the Pacers, Nuggets, Raptors and some others will probably have better wings than the Spurs.

Also, in this whole "let's take each team's best wing out of the equation. You are forgetting that the Spurs was the only team, alongside Boston, that actually played the entire season without it's best wing, so the lesser wings of the Spurs had more minutes and responsabilities to shine. If it wasn't for Kawhi's injured Anderson would probably be seen as lesser player than how he is percieved right now. But whetever, take the best guy out of everyteam and the Spurs are still nowhere close to the second best team in the league in terms of wings.

Who was the Spurs best wing this season? Anderson? A guy that averages 8ppg on 30 mmp? Manu, a 42 year old? Green, a 3 and D guy who has completely lost his shot and doesn't know how to dribble? You are very mistaken if you think the Spurs' wing rotation is some kind of major strength.

[rjv]

I could have added OKC with George, Melo, Grant and Abrines. If I look deep into, I'm sure I will also come to the conclusion that teams like the Pacers, Nuggets, Raptors and some others will probably have better wings than the Spurs.

Also, in this whole "let's take each team's best wing out of the equation. You are forgetting that the Spurs was the only team, alongside Boston, that actually played the entire season without it's best wing, so the lesser wings of the Spurs had more minutes and responsabilities to shine. If it wasn't for Kawhi's injured Anderson would probably be seen as lesser player than how he is percieved right now. But whetever, take the best guy out of everyteam and the Spurs are still nowhere close to the second best team in the league in terms of wings.

Who was the Spurs best wing this season? Anderson? A guy that averages 8ppg on 30 mmp? Manu, a 42 year old? Green, a 3 and D guy who has completely lost his shot and doesn't know how to dribble? You are very mistaken if you think the Spurs' wing rotation is some kind of major strength.

good points. i think our wings are efficient and effective (more so on the defensive end) but they hardly come off as a formidable group.

[Chinook]

I could have added OKC with George, Melo, Grant and Abrines. If I look deep into, I'm sure I will also come to the conclusion that teams like the Pacers, Nuggets, Raptors and some others will probably have better wings than the Spurs.

:lmao Melo has been shit warmed over this season. You could have added them just as a capper to show you much you've been stretching your point.


Also, in this whole "let's take each team's best wing out of the equation. You are forgetting that the Spurs was the only team, alongside Boston, that actually played the entire season without it's best wing, so the lesser wings of the Spurs had more minutes and responsabilities to shine.

No, I'm literally not. That's the whole point. Some guys need stars to help them, if anything just to take attention from them. That's a flaw but not an automatic disqualifier.


But whetever, take the best guy out of everyteam and the Spurs are still nowhere close to the second best team in the league in terms of wings.

They're a damned sight better than most of those teams you listed.


Who was the Spurs best wing this season? Anderson? A guy that averages 8ppg on 30 mmp? Manu, a 42 year old? Green, a 3 and D guy who has completely lost his shot and doesn't know how to dribble? You are very mistaken if you think the Spurs' wing rotation is some kind of major strength.

It was probably Gay in terms of average (not counting Kawhi's short stint) and Anderson in terms of aggregate. Anderson, Gay, Kawhi and Aldridge has to be strongest forward rotation in the league. Even Golden State doesn't have one like it. When you insist a guy like Kyle is worth half the MLE, obviously you're going to come out with a skewed view of reality. Bertans is fine depth behind those guys, and Paul has a role to play. That leaves the guards, which has been the team's weak spot for years now. I can agree that Green and Manu have fallen off as a two-guard rotation and wouldn't rank too highly this season based on their (especially Danny's) performance. I also think Murray's dicey, though you and other folks love him. That should count as points toward the wing rotation, but I guess it doesn't here...

[tbdog]

:lol all of those guys except for Solomon Hill are better than Fathead

I'll argue that Inglis, James Johnson and Pacers brogv are, but the rest are turds in comparison. Want to get upset with Kyle's shooting. Imagine MKG.

[K...]

18 mother fucker we get 18,

[K...]

984909257568112646

[raybies]

984909257568112646
it already happened that fast??!! heck yeah man.

[sasaint]

:lmao Don't give me this "Manu's bigger than money" comment. Dude took $14 Million at 39 years of age.

Manu didn't sign a two-year deal with the plan to play both years. I know this seems counter-intuitive, but he wanted to play next year, he would have signed a one-year deal with an option. Doing that would have given him the flexibility to opt out and get more money while also giving the team a chance to renounce him for cap space (since they could give him a new min deal even if they went over the cap). It does nobody good for Manu to take the deal he did if he plan wasn't to retire. Obviously, he could change his mind, and perhaps this season has made him do that. But if he does come back, it will be for no more money than he will make not playing. It's not realistic to think he's going to do that, regardless of the conceit of pretending Argentinians are the only folks who can understand Manu after the dude has been with the team for so long.



The Spurs will know on Green and Rudy before the draft. They'll probably know on Kawhi too. They can definitely keep at least one of Anderson/Bertans if they want to. You throw in Blossomgame, White and Paul, and you really don't have that much uncertainty. Moreover, the team will have a lot of flexibility to replace any of those guys who leave in free agency, and they will have to do that rather than just drafting. Gay, Green and Anderson are rotation players. You aren't asking a rookie to fill those slots.



The Spurs wings are fine. Shit, they're more than fine. Kawhi's loss has made everyone look worse. But if this rotation were healthy, it would be:

Murray, Ginobili
Leonard, Green
Anderson, Gay

Golden State is the only team that can argue it has a better rotation than that. I shudder to think how shit Houston's middle guys would be without Harden. Murray isn't going anywhere. Kawhi being traded is going to cause a cascade of changes that will result in a new starting SF among other things. White's ready to replace Manu. Gay's role as a go-to scorer will be replaced by an MLE vet, because it's too important to leave open. If Anderson leaves, you put Bertans there. They aren't both going to leave. Green's is the only role you might consider using a pick on, but even that would either be filled with a Kawhi trade or by a competition between guys like Paul and Blossomgame. It's not a critical spot.

I can't imagine what you'd be saying about the big rotation had LMA been the guy out all year and they run with Gasol and Joff getting big minutes.

I think Gay is opting in. I don't think he showed he was worth more. Plus, if Kawhi is dealt, I think he sees his role kind of cemented.

[BackHome]

Jontay Porter 6’11 PF
Dzanan Musa 6’9 SF
Shake Milton 6’6 PG/SG

[Chinook]

I think Gay is opting in. I don't think he showed he was worth more. Plus, if Kawhi is dealt, I think he sees his role kind of cemented.

I think most will be back. The point about Gay is that you don't draft some guy and hope to replace Gay's role. You'd have to attack it in free agency with a vet. I actually do see Gay opting out, though, and signing like a two-year deal at a slight raise and without an option. He seems to live SA, and he fits well there. He could age gracefully as a designated bench scorer. Only way he leaves is if he's THAT desperate to ring-chase of is taking Kawhi's side in all this.

[SAGirl]

going back to this thread though... think the initial point is they will take the best player available. They just need someone that can help the most and is talented... if he happens to be a guard, guess what they have needed good guards and may need to move on from some current guys, if it's a big, they need that too (I don't know what happens with Milutinov), but if you get someone better you snag him. If it's a wing, they could use him too. Whoever is the best player.

Let's not pass on Jimmy Butlers bc we need a CoJo, kind of situation.

[raybies]

My Top 3 for our draft slot:

Knox
J. Porter
Trent

[sasaint]

going back to this thread though... think the initial point is they will take the best player available. They just need someone that can help the most and is talented... if he happens to be a guard, guess what they have needed good guards and may need to move on from some current guys, if it's a big, they need that too (I don't know what happens with Milutinov), but if you get someone better you snag him. If it's a wing, they could use him too. Whoever is the best player.

Let's not pass on Jimmy Butlers bc we need a CoJo, kind of situation.

With PATFO in charge that is exactly what scares me. Moreover, if Kawhi is dealt, having PATFO handling that scares me more - especially if even more draft picks are involved. But what really disturbs me is the way Pop handles young prospects. Whether they pick a guard, a big, or a wing - regardless of the guy's ability, Pop will likely relegate him to G-league duty. He won't help the parent club for a couple of years at the earliest.

[raybies]

With PATFO in charge that is exactly what scares me. Moreover, if Kawhi is dealt, having PATFO handling that scares me more - especially if even more draft picks are involved. But what really disturbs me is the way Pop handles young prospects. Whether they pick a guard, a big, or a wing - regardless of the guy's ability, Pop will likely relegate him to G-league duty. He won't help the parent club for a couple of years at the earliest.
i dunno man... it kinda depends on necessity. Kawhi was starting his first year for example but for the most part you are right.

Everything depends on Kawhi but after watching today's game, we need play makers and knockdown shooters on the wing. White has the potential to be huge, but the more the merrier. I think J. Porter would be great but if there's a wing that can play make and shoot you have to go for it. It's just the nature of the game right now. Manu is our best play maker and the dude is 40. Parker looks done. Can't hit the mid range or get to the rim. Patty isn't a threat at the rim. Gay is a post up wing so you can start him at the four next year. We just don't have the luxury to have the Danny Greens of the world on our team. Bryn had more than enough chances, can't create, not bad as a 15th man off the bench etc. Paul is another Green basically. All we have is Murray and White and Murray is what 21 and White played in the G League most the year. Kyle did really well in the PNR early in the year... where did that go??? Why did that stop???

Bottom line, we need an overhaul next year at least in the rotation. Theoretically they would've been fine with Kawhi but who knows what happens next.

[outmap]

Mitchell Robinson pls

[vy65]

Oh, hi

[$pursDynasty]

Why does Pop hate players with athleticism? Simmons was the last Spur that had any, we lucked into him, didn't draft him and then let him leave. Yet we will probably try to keep fathead. We extend Pau for ridiculous cash but lose Dedmon to the Hawks, smh. We will probably get some euro that won't see the nba for 4 years or some college senior with a high bbiq and no athleticism whatsoever that isn't even on most teams draft boards.

[MR-Clutch]

Would love to get Deandre Hunter but my guess is he moves out of our range as the draft gets closer. If he’s unavailable I would love Robert Williams or taking a risk on Mitchell Robinson.

btw anyone looking for a decent site to replace draftexpress should check out thestepien.com

[FireMicoHalili]

For this year’s pick, my guess is Shake Milton. 6’6, solid wingspan, great defender, can play three positions. For the 49th pick I’m betting on Goga Bitadze.

[Thomas82]

Mitchell Robinson pls

Yes sir!! Cosign!!

[r0drig0lac]

Pop will draft Musa, and everyone here knows that.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Pop and RC don't get draft and stash euros anymore. They're obsessed with the light skin 6'3 small guard who can't shoot but has long arms...

[Big Empty]

how cool would it be to have another center with the last name of Robinson

[Big Empty]

http://youtu.be/EvFYtuhDA_M

[r0drig0lac]

in a perimeter oriented league, which is exactly the most serious fault of the roster, let's draft a bigmen, that's exactly what PATFO would do

[TD 21]

in a perimeter oriented league, which is exactly the most serious fault of the roster, let's draft a bigmen, that's exactly what PATFO would do

It's not like they couldn't use a legit big prospect (someone with at least 3rd big potential) in the pipeline. Aldridge and Gasol will turn 33 and 38, respectively, during the summer. They at least have Murray and White at guard.

Really, the greatest need isn't positional though; it's high end you talent in general. If the pick is retained, they should be aiming as close as possible to that, no matter the position.

[wildbill2u]

Did White just not impress enough to get some more courtesy minutes this year on the big club? I thought he played pretty decent in the one playoff game he got in, even if it was garbage time.

[lmbebo]

http://youtu.be/EvFYtuhDA_M

Honestly, I'll admit that I didn't watch the whole 5 mins. But what I did see just shows me he's taller than the competition and tall....Lobs, dunks and blocks on people half his size.

[tholdren]

I think most will be back. The point about Gay is that you don't draft some guy and hope to replace Gay's role. You'd have to attack it in free agency with a vet. I actually do see Gay opting out, though, and signing like a two-year deal at a slight raise and without an option. He seems to live SA, and he fits well there. He could age gracefully as a designated bench scorer. Only way he leaves is if he's THAT desperate to ring-chase of is taking Kawhi's side in all this.

Lol he cant score for shit. Do you watch games?

[dbestpro]

Bates-Diop keeps getting better, plays both defense and shoots the three. Buys into the team concept but also carried Ohio St. into the NCAA tourney when many projected them last in the Big 10.
Has the wheels to become a SG, and size to play SF or small ball PF at 6-7 235 pounds and be replacement for Danny Green.

[raybies]

Bates-Diop keeps getting better, plays both defense and shoots the three. Buys into the team concept but also carried Ohio St. into the NCAA tourney when many projected them last in the Big 10.
Has the wheels to become a SG, and size to play SF or small ball PF at 6-7 235 pounds and be replacement for Danny Green.
I actually like him to man. Don't know why he isn't rated higher in most mocks. The dude a solid all round player

[cjw]

Lol he cant score for shit. Do you watch games?

Name a player other than Aldridge/Leonard who can create points out of nothing more than Gay. The rest of the roster struggled mightily and it’ll only get worse once Manu retires.

[duncan2150]

I actually like him to man. Don't know why he isn't rated higher in most mocks. The dude a solid all round player

Bates diop looks solid, he could be a steal if he goes early in the second round.

imo he’s ranking a little bit low because he’s 22 yr old and has less upside than some younger players.

[exstatic]

Bates diop looks solid, he could be a steal if he goes early in the second round.

imo he’s ranking a little bit low because he’s 22 yr old and has upside than some younger players.

This. The longer you stay in college, and DONT DOMINATE, the lower your ceiling is perceived to be.

[duncan2150]

This. The longer you stay in college, and DONT DOMINATE, the lower your ceiling is perceived to be.

That’s true, younger and talented players didn’t stay a lot in NCAA in general, so players who stay four years in university are undervaluated sometimes.

[tholdren]

That’s true, younger and talented players didn’t stay a lot in NCAA in general, so players who stay four years in university are undervaluated sometimes.

Right. You get hyped for dunking, not skill. Then you turn into players like murray, who are pgs but cant shoot pass or dibble. Dumb fans fault. Stop buying espn fake news

[keithington1]

BPA in this order:
Mitchell Robinson
Lonnie Walker
Anfernee Simons
Troy Brown Jr.
Jontay Porter
Gary Trent Jr.
Zhaire Smith
Chandler Hutchinson
Dznan Musa
Kieta Bates Diop

[dbestpro]

This. The longer you stay in college, and DONT DOMINATE, the lower your ceiling is perceived to be.

Bates-Diop did not dominate until his senior year because he finally had a coach who would give him the ball. He handles the ball well, shoots the three, plays physical defense, and can post up lighter weight defenders. He has the work ethic and will have a solid NBA career.

[exstatic]

Bates-Diop did not dominate until his senior year because he finally had a coach who would give him the ball. He handles the ball well, shoots the three, plays physical defense, and can post up lighter weight defenders. He has the work ethic and will have a solid NBA career.
Unfortunately, most GMs aren’t looking for solid, they’re looking for unicorns.

[BatManu20]

Bummer. He was one of my favorite prospects who might’ve been available. He’ll prob be a lottery pick next year though.


1001901638007885825

[Spurtacular]

Bummer. He was one of my favorite prospects who might’ve been available. He’ll prob be a lottery pick next year though.


1001901638007885825

If Kawhi takes another year off, we might get him then. :lol

[tholdren]

Unfortunately, most GMs aren’t looking for solid, they’re looking for unicorns.

Thats part of the fan fault. They want to win but they need to be entertained. Why nba talentless

[cd021]

This. The longer you stay in college, and DONT DOMINATE, the lower your ceiling is perceived to be.

Or when players have big production jumps in year 3 or year 4, its often viewed as a more experienced, physically mature player bullying less experienced and rawer talent. Buddy Heild comes to mind, he had a 7.5 ppg jump between year 3 and year 4 (17.4 to 25 ppg)

[smaka]

Brace yourselves, we're drafting Musa... *sigh*

[Twisted_Dawg]

Bates diop looks solid, he could be a steal if he goes early in the second round.

imo he’s ranking a little bit low because he’s 22 yr old and has less upside than some younger players.

GSW will buy a high second round pick and draft him.

[Texas_Ranger]

Brace yourselves, we're drafting Musa... *sigh*

ugh :vomit:

[Russ]

Brace yourselves, we're drafting Musa... *sigh*

Musa has completely disappeared from the NBADraft.net mock draft. (He used to be around #18.)

I can't find any evidence that he's withdrawn, so it seems strange that he's completely fallen off the map.

[dbestpro]

He keeps moving up draft boards in the first round and most likely will not be there for the Spurs in the first round let alone in the 2nd round.

[cd021]

Musa has completely disappeared from the NBADraft.net mock draft. (He used to be around #18.)

I can't find any evidence that he's withdrawn, so it seems strange that he's completely fallen off the map.

Draft net is notorious for that. They'll have players listed as late second rounders while other mocks consistently have them as 1st round picks, and often they won't have players in their top 60 that end up getting drafted. Pat Connaghton was one that I remember. He was wasn't listed in any of their mocks yet ended up going 41 to the Blazers.

[cd021]

Don't know if he actually gets drafted but the ringer ha Issac Bonga going to us at 48. 6'9 play making wing with a 7'0 wing span. Still really young (doesn't turn 19 until November)

[Maj_G]

1003358561857163265

[John B]

Zhaire Smith if available. He’ll be so much fun to watch and will forget how FO let Simmons walked

[CGD]

1003358561857163265

Duh

[John B]

There’s actually a handful of them in this draft. I like Zhaire Smith explosiveness and block shots. Fans will be entertained by this kid. Big man as undervalued in today’s NBA game. I hope Robinson dropped in early 2nd round, and maybe Spurs can trade up for him maybe for Gasols expiring contract. He can bring veteran leadership to a rebuilding team.aybe Mem wants to pair him with his brother. Have Milutinov come to replace. Hey it’s my wish :flag:

[SilverSpur]

We need to trade are first and second round pick to move up in draft and get impact player

[tholdren]

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Spurs also eyeing the best player at this pick.
Spurs are eyeing to improve their team. Spurs eyeing winning more ganes. Keep this dumb shit off the board

[BackHome]

Fuck almost every team is looking at getting an athletic wing. Lol

[BatManu20]

Fuck almost every team is looking at getting an athletic wing. Lol


Theyre at a premium in the NBA right now.

[BatManu20]

Athletic wings that could be available at #18:


1. Zhaire Smith, SG (best athlete but unlikely he's available)

2. Gary Trent Jr., SG (would be a solid pick; A higher upside Danny)

3. Troy Brown, SF (my fav of the bunch; Chip could work his magic)

4. Lonnie Walker, SG (little undersized but attacks the rim well & we need that badly)

5. Dzanan Musa, SF (would be a classic Spurs pick)

6. Keita Bates-Diop, SF (oldest of the bunch but well-rounded role player)

7. Chandler Hutchinson, SF (another Senior with a well-rounded game; Seems like a Spurs-type personality)

[Chinook]

Walker's my favorite guy on that list. I'm hesitant to say the Spurs would need to be aggressive in acquiring him, because he didn't have great production in college. But his athleticism and slashing would make him a great compliment to Kawhi if the team goes that route. He and Murray aren't a natural fit, but if they can make it work, that three-guard rotation with White would be fantastic on paper. He'd probably be relegated to a bench player with Patty in the lineup though.

[keithington1]

Walker's my favorite guy on that list. I'm hesitant to say the Spurs would need to be aggressive in acquiring him, because he didn't have great production in college. But his athleticism and slashing would make him a great compliment to Kawhi if the team goes that route. He and Murray aren't a natural fit, but if they can make it work, that three-guard rotation with White would be fantastic on paper. He'd probably be relegated to a bench player with Patty in the lineup though.I feel like one of TP or Patty has to go if we draft someone 6'5" and under.

[Chinook]

I feel like one of TP or Patty has to go if we draft someone 6'5" and under.

I was taking it as a given that Parker would be gone in that scenario. I don't think he can fit on the roster unless Patty is traded, regardless of who they draft.

[duncan2150]

Walker's my favorite guy on that list. I'm hesitant to say the Spurs would need to be aggressive in acquiring him, because he didn't have great production in college. But his athleticism and slashing would make him a great compliment to Kawhi if the team goes that route. He and Murray aren't a natural fit, but if they can make it work, that three-guard rotation with White would be fantastic on paper. He'd probably be relegated to a bench player with Patty in the lineup though.

Walker's one of my favourite too in this draft, he could provide us a lot of things.

i aslo like Troy Brown jr as a SG/SF playmaker ala Evan Turner but more athletic ( less talented than turner when coming from NCAA)

[BackHome]

I feel like one of TP or Patty has to go if we draft someone 6'5" and under.

Add Forbes to that short list to.

[rjv]

i'd be shocked if walker is still around by the time the spurs pick. who would let another donovan mitchell slip that far? and, if were there, i'd also be surprised if the spurs picked him.

[keithington1]

Kieta Bates Diop could defend any one of the Warriors big 4

[Chinook]

i'd be shocked if walker is still around by the time the spurs pick. who would let another donovan mitchell slip that far? and, if were there, i'd also be surprised if the spurs picked him.

Easiest way to get Walker would be as part of a Leonard trade for sure. He'd still be an interesting pick for his potential paring with Murray, but adding a dynamic guard is the best thing the Spurs can do to revamp their current core.

[rjv]

Easiest way to get Walker would be as part of a Leonard trade for sure. He'd still be an interesting pick for his potential paring with Murray, but adding a dynamic guard is the best thing the Spurs can do to revamp their current core.

i'd love to have him, if the spurs were to covet him, not to mention that it would also likely signal the end of the TP era.

[Gordy58]

I wonder why anyone isn’t hyping Chandler Hutchinson up more, he’s a legit 6’7 do it all forward, can shoot well enough, great handles, aggressive to the basket, can finish above the rim, I hope we draft him.

[keithington1]

Does anyone think Zhaire Smith could fit on our roster? If he starts with Murray I don't know about that spacing. If he comes off the bench he'd be stuck fighting for minutes with Patty, TP, White, Forbes, Paul, and Ginobili. He's also like 6'4"