The ugly side of a Kawhi trade, tbh...

[ElNono]

If this is what it comes to, Kawhi will have a lot of sway where he ends up and conversely, what the Spurs can get for him.

With a supermax from the Spurs out of the horizon in this case, it's very likely whoever team wants to bid for Kawhi would want him to sign an extension before agreeing to trade any major pieces, picks.

Teams that would potentially take on him on a one year rental are unlikely to offer anywhere as much, considering the risk he might walk at the end of the season.

Obviously, Kawhi can also just wait out the year, earn the last $19m on his current contract, become a free agent and do as he pleases, without the Spurs getting anything back. This would be the worst case scenario for the Spurs, and one they would want to avoid.

So be prepared for the fact that the Spurs might not have a lot of leverage if this situation plays out. Unfortunately, at this point they would be trying to make the best of a bad situation.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

No other team can offer him a supermax extension.

[ElNono]

No other team can offer him a supermax extension.

Sorry, you're correct. Well, unless he plays 8 season with his new team. The rest is accurate anyways, I believe, so still not a great position for the Spurs.

[r0drig0lac]

absolutely right, that sucks for the Spurs, although I'm very curious about the fact that Pop will have to do something this season other than delivering fat contracts to former players because of the "culture" of the franchise

[Darius Bieber]

Exactly. It would be like the Pacers and the Paul George situation. (Nobody figured Oladipo would become this good). We are getting back perhaps a pick and a fringe starter player for Kawhi.

[offset formation]

Sorry, you're correct. Well, unless he plays 8 season with his new team. The rest is accurate anyways, I believe, so still not a great position for the Spurs.

Can still only be with the team that drafted you, if I read it correctly.

[ElNono]

Can still only be with the team that drafted you, if I read it correctly.

A player needs to either be entering (or have just completed) his eighth or ninth season. As The Atlantic points outs, players aiming to eventually land a supermax deal would sign a contract extension after their rookie deal. After this extension, eligible players could sign a supermax contract. For most of the eligible players, the supermax deal would be their third NBA contract.

Not super clear to me either.

https://heavy.com/sports/2017/07/nba-supermax-contract-deal-salary-how-much-designated-player/

[phxspurfan]

There's many more risks at this point than just a long term deal. He's basically in a show-me state, where teams will want to see him play a year or two without stupid injuries and anxiety/panic attacks before deciding he can lead their franchise like a true max player should. He will be looked at as a player who couldn't succeed at one of the best franchises in all of pro sports, with hall of fame executives/coaching and hall of fame players all around him -- basically the easiest setup imaginable. That will not make his trade value better to a potential suitor, it will make him a talent with a shit ton of risk: injury, attitude and otherwise. Also, keep in mind he will be trade bait/player option/a free agent during these next 2-3 years when many other more proven stars are out there or on the horizon as competition for the same front offices to go after, like Paul George, LeBron, Giannis, KD, Cousins, Embiid, AD, Jokic etc. His competition will carry the same talent, pedigree, but far less injury/attitude risk.

[ElNono]

There's many more risks at this point than just a long term deal. He's basically in a show-me state, where teams will want to see him play a year or two without stupid injuries and anxiety/panic attacks before deciding he can lead their franchise like a true max player should. He will be looked at as a player who couldn't succeed at one of the best franchises in all of pro sports, with hall of fame executives/coaching and hall of fame players all around him -- basically the easiest setup imaginable. That will not make his trade value better to a potential suitor, it will make him a talent with a shit ton of risk: injury, attitude and otherwise. Also, keep in mind he will be trade bait/player option/a free agent during these next 2-3 years when many other more proven stars are out there or on the horizon as competition for the same front offices to go after, like Paul George, LeBron, Giannis, KD, Cousins, Embiid, AD, Jokic etc. His competition will carry the same talent, pedigree, but far less injury/attitude risk.

Nonsense. He's a top 5 player in the NBA that had a fallout with his team. Plenty of teams will lineup to max him out. Sure, they'll check the medical status, but unless there's something serious, there's a lot of teams that will take that gamble.

[phxspurfan]

Nonsense. He's a top 5 player in the NBA that had a fallout with his team. Plenty of teams will lineup to max him out. Sure, they'll check the medical status, but unless there's something serious, there's a lot of teams that will take that gamble.

Not saying teams won't gamble on him, but he's exactly that right now. A gamble. And why pursue the gamble first when you can use the same max dollar slot to pursue a Paul George, LeBron, Anthony Davis etc.

[Darius Bieber]

Not saying teams won't gamble on him, but he's exactly that right now. A gamble. And why pursue the gamble first when you can use the same max dollar slot to pursue a Paul George, LeBron, Anthony Davis etc.

Exactly. No team would offer up their best player or a high-value talent for perhaps a one year rental. We are screwed either way.

[RD2191]

Not saying teams won't gamble on him, but he's exactly that right now. A gamble. And why pursue the gamble first when you can use the same max dollar slot to pursue a Paul George, LeBron, Anthony Davis etc.

Teams have taken bigger gambles on lesser players. Kawhi will be fine.

[Hoops Czar]

Nonsense. He's a top 5 player in the NBA that had a fallout with his team. Plenty of teams will lineup to max him out. Sure, they'll check the medical status, but unless there's something serious, there's a lot of teams that will take that gamble.

You assume too much. When he's healthy, he's a top 5 player. We might have seen the last of that.

[Mugen]

Man, still crazy to believe how badly this situation has unfolded since last season.

Can't believe the Spurs are a few months away from trading away Kawhi (i'd put it at near 95% at this point tbh).

Really hope they completely blow it up after, trade Lamarcus and hopefully attach the Fatty/Pau contracts. Get as many first rounders as possible this draft and the next and figure out who's going to take over for Pop.

[Darius Bieber]

Man, still crazy to believe how badly this situation has unfolded since last season.

Can't believe the Spurs are a few months away from trading away Kawhi (i'd put it at near 95% at this point tbh).

Really hope they completely blow it up after, trade Lamarcus and hopefully attach the Fatty/Pau contracts. Get as many first rounders as possible this draft and the next and figure out who's going to take over for Pop.

I agree with everything you said except for trading LMA. He put the team on his back this season and balled out through injury. Keep him and rebuild. Unless he wishes to be traded, which is 100% possible since he probably is looking to be on a contending team, not a lottery one.

[CGD]

I think the one year rental thing is a little overstated. With the exception of maybe Philly, contending teams that might appeal to Leonard like Boston and LAC will need a trade in order to also acquire his bird rights. Look at Boston alone. They’ll have three max or near max deals with just what they have now.

Same for Clips and Cleveland. Assuming Jordan and Rivers (lol) opt-in Clips aren’t in a better place next summer either. Cavs financial situation is just dire.

[Clipper Nation]

I think the one year rental thing is a little overstated. With the exception of maybe Philly, contending teams that might appeal to Leonard like Boston and LAC will need a trade in order to also acquire his bird rights. Look at Boston alone. They’ll have three max or near max deals with just what they have now.

Same for Clips and Cleveland. Assuming Jordan and Rivers (lol) opt-in Clips aren’t in a better place next summer either. Cavs financial situation is just dire.
Even if Austin and DJ opt in, we still have plenty of cap space in 2019. Not exactly "dire."

[DPG21920]

Sorry, you're correct. Well, unless he plays 8 season with his new team. The rest is accurate anyways, I believe, so still not a great position for the Spurs.

Not even then. Part of the rule is you have to play with the team that drafted you in order to be eligible

[DPG21920]

Again, even though I don’t think they would, they should not trade Kawhi. Make him suffer both the financial and basketball ramifications of his decisions.

Make sure he loses 70M. Make sure you limit his options on where he can play to teams that have capspace when he’s a free agent after next season.

[Mugen]

Is there a window to how long they can offer the supermax?

Meaning they refuse trade him this summer, force him to play next year. He balls out and Spurs would be able to offer him 60-80mil more than any other team?

[RD2191]

Again, even though I don’t think they would, they should not trade Kawhi. Make him suffer both the financial and basketball ramifications of his decisions.

Make sure he loses 70M. Make sure you limit his options on where he can play to teams that have capspace when he’s a free agent after next season.

Did Kawhi turn down your daughter?

[baseline bum]

Man, still crazy to believe how badly this situation has unfolded since last season.

Can't believe the Spurs are a few months away from trading away Kawhi (i'd put it at near 95% at this point tbh).

Really hope they completely blow it up after, trade Lamarcus and hopefully attach the Fatty/Pau contracts. Get as many first rounders as possible this draft and the next and figure out who's going to take over for Pop.

Yes dump Aldridge for picks and/or prospects while he has value. People at Spurstalk have such short memories. Eleven months ago this guy couldn't score on James fucking Harden in the post. Pringles was sending James Harden to guard this guy in the post and he wasn't making him pay for it. Now everyone wants to act like he's some franchise legend for one season leading the team to a 7-seed.

[Mugen]

Again, even though I don’t think they would, they should not trade Kawhi. Make him suffer both the financial and basketball ramifications of his decisions.

Make sure he loses 70M. Make sure you limit his options on where he can play to teams that have capspace when he’s a free agent after next season.

Highly doubt that Pop and the front office would want that distraction looming around the team all of next year again. I'm pretty convinced that their image of Leonard is beyond repair (can't really say I blame them) and they probably want a fresh start by moving him this summer tbh.

[baseline bum]

Again, even though I don’t think they would, they should not trade Kawhi. Make him suffer both the financial and basketball ramifications of his decisions.

Make sure he loses 70M. Make sure you limit his options on where he can play to teams that have capspace when he’s a free agent after next season.

If they trade him he can't get the supermax anyways. He'd have to stay with the Spurs for one calendar year after signing it, they couldn't sign him to a supermax and then send him off to Boston or LA.

[r0drig0lac]

Yes dump Aldridge for picks and/or prospects while he has value. People at Spurstalk have such short memories. Eleven months ago this guy couldn't score on James fucking Harden in the post. Pringles was sending James Harden to guard this guy in the post and he wasn't making him pay for it. Now everyone wants to act like he's some franchise legend for one season leading the team to a 7-seed.

[tbdog]

Nonsense. He's a top 5 player in the NBA that had a fallout with his team. Plenty of teams will lineup to max him out. Sure, they'll check the medical status, but unless there's something serious, there's a lot of teams that will take that gamble.

Upon being traded, the new team will do a medical and say he is clear. The group however might have other opinions on the matter :D

[TheGreatYacht]

Said the exact thing last week when faggots wanted him traded to Brooklyn or Atlanta. Kawhi will control where he goes and there's not a damn thing Drunkford can do about it. So keep him happy and take calls from the list of teams he wants, and he'll keep quiet.

[Mugen]

Leonard not being on the team next year means you blow it up, plain and simple. There is no scenario where the Spurs are competing for a title in the next 3-4 years that doesn't involve Leonard being on the team.

Trading away Kawhi/LMA nets you a minimum of two lottery picks and hopefully sheds the awful Fatty/Pau contracts. The team will be garbage for the next 2-3 years but at least you still have all your own picks. Pop can still kick back and collect his checks and you could even give a fat thank you contract to Porky if you wanted...

[hater]

Just send the Mute Cancer wherever he goes and move on feom this situation tbqh

[TheGreatYacht]

Leonard not being on the team next year means you blow it up, plain and simple. There is no scenario where the Spurs are competing for a title in the next 3-4 years that doesn't involve Leonard being on the team.

Trading away Kawhi/LMA nets you a minimum of two lottery picks and hopefully sheds the awful Fatty/Pau contracts. The team will be garbage for the next 2-3 years but at least you still have all your own picks. Pop can still kick back and collect his checks and you could even give a fat thank you contract to Porky if you wanted...
Completely agree. Thank god LMA just had a career year tbh.

[DPG21920]

If they trade him he can't get the supermax anyways. He'd have to stay with the Spurs for one calendar year after signing it, they couldn't sign him to a supermax and then send him off to Boston or LA.

I know, but if they trade him, that team gets his bird rights and he can sign for more with another team (not SuperMax but the level below that). By making him go to a team in free agency, there are no bird rights and gets the lowest version of his max possible.

Not only that, a team would have to have cap space to sign him. So he will have limited choices and if a team that wants him has to open up cap space, they would need to shed assets to do so making them less competitive.

I don’t expect SA to do that, just saying I wish they would if all this is true.

[BD24]

If we can get Tatum and picks for Kawhi I would consider that a win.

Absolute amazing scenario would be Brown and Tatum for him, don't really see that happening though.

Another decent scenario could be some sort of package including Ingram from the Lakers.

Regardless, would give us a decent core moving forward of either.


Murray, White, Brown, Tatum, hopefully decent draft picks

OR

Murray, White, Tatum, Hopefully decent draft picks.

Will be odd to witness rebuilding years tbh.

[DPG21920]

There is zero reason to blow it up if you trade Kawhi. The team without him this year was 2 games from being a top 3 seed. Don’t be dumb.

If you add a few first round picks and a player and free agents (via SAs own first, a kawhi trade getting you picks and maybe a player and free agency) , this team could easily be a top 3-4 team in the league

[TheGreatYacht]

I know, but if they trade him, that team gets his bird rights and he can sign for more with another team (not SuperMax but the level below that). By making him go to a team in free agency, there are no bird rights and gets the lowest version of his max possible.

Not only that, a team would have to have cap space to sign him. So he will have limited choices and if a team that wants him has to open up cap space, they would need to shed assets to do so making them less competitive.

I don’t expect SA to do that, just saying I wish they would if all this is true.
Lol Lakers will have all of the cap space in the world ready then. It's been reported 2019 is their plan anyways.

Like I said before.... the money he loses will be made back in sponsorships once he's the face of the showtime Lakers.

As for the Spurs? They won't get a damn thing back but dog shit in a bag :lol and they'll have to eat those Fatty/Pau years or package picks to get rid of them.

[spursistan]

Lol Lakers will have all of the cap space in the world ready then. It's been reported 2019 is their plan anyways.

Like I said before.... the money he loses will be made back in sponsorships once he's the face of the showtime Lakers.
:lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

There is zero reason to blow it up if you trade Kawhi. The team without him this year was 2 games from being a top 3 seed. Don’t be dumb.

If you add a few first round picks and a player and free agents (via SAs own first, a kawhi trade getting you picks and maybe a player and free agency) , this team could easily be a top 3-4 team in the league
:lol Jesus Christ this has to be the best post yet. All of it is glorious. Good ol DPG

[picnroll]

Get the best picks you can for him, accept you’re going to be in high lottery territory for a couple of years, hope a couple of Emids and Simmons come along and hope you’re not rooting for the Seattle or Las Vegas Spurs.

[Kawhitstorm]

Exactly. It would be like the Pacers and the Paul George situation. (Nobody figured Oladipo would become this good). We are getting back perhaps a pick and a fringe starter player for Kawhi.

I always knew Dipo was a bad man since college just like Kawhi............:wakeup

[Budkin]

Man I love Kawhi as a player. Hoping like crazy all this shit blows over.

[TheGreatYacht]

Get the best picks you can for him, accept you’re going to be in high lottery territory for a couple of years, hope a couple of Emids and Simmons come along and hope you’re not rooting for the Seattle or Las Vegas Spurs.
Only way that happens is if Drunkford pays Manu until he's 45 :lol

These unloyal fat Mexicans barely showed up to watch 67-win teams much less a tanking Spurs team that has Fatty Mills and Pau Gasol starting. They better hope the old salvadorean doesn't retire because they'll lose so much money it'll be insane...

[UZER]

Hope Pop gets over himself and actually gets athletic wings.

[ElNono]

You assume too much. When he's healthy, he's a top 5 player. We might have seen the last of that.

Everybody is going to take a look at his health bill before putting up the dollars. But, unless it's something chronic and unlikely to get better (and we don't know that), then teams will gamble.

[ElNono]

I agree with everything you said except for trading LMA. He put the team on his back this season and balled out through injury. Keep him and rebuild. Unless he wishes to be traded, which is 100% possible since he probably is looking to be on a contending team, not a lottery one.

The problem with LMA is that if he confirms to only be a #1 in the regular season and can only be a #2 or #3 in the playoffs, we're spending a max contract with a known ceiling...

[DPG21920]

Lol Lakers will have all of the cap space in the world ready then. It's been reported 2019 is their plan anyways.

Like I said before.... the money he loses will be made back in sponsorships once he's the face of the showtime Lakers.

As for the Spurs? They won't get a damn thing back but dog shit in a bag :lol and they'll have to eat those Fatty/Pau years or package picks to get rid of them.

Nah - he’s not making that up in endorsements. Not even close. He got offered 20M/5 years from Jordan. He will be 70M less from LA vs SA’s SuperMax offer(not factoring in the additional money he loses with CA having state taxes vs TX having none). Jordan is not going to offer him 4x the money just for doing the same thing on a worse team because it’s a bigger market. Sorry.

[DPG21920]

Get the best picks you can for him, accept you’re going to be in high lottery territory for a couple of years, hope a couple of Emids and Simmons come along and hope you’re not rooting for the Seattle or Las Vegas Spurs.

Spurs weren’t in the lottery without him this year and they would have much more assets than before. Why would they get worse over the next couple years with that?

[TheGreatYacht]

Nah - he’s not making that up in endorsements. Not even close. He got offered 20M/5 years from Jordan. He will be 70M less (not factoring in the additional money he loses with CA having state taxes vs TX having none). Jordan is not going to offer him 4x the money just for doing the same thing on a worse team because it’s a bigger market. Sorry.
Have you seen the deals borderline Top10 players have received from Adidas or Nike? :lol He will make that $70M back, 100% guaranteed.

That 20M was offered after he missed a full season and was playing in the little creek of San Antonio. That will easily quadruple. You're uninformed if you believe otherwise.

Even Footlocker is asking fans what team he'll be at next. This city is fucking up his money.

[TD 21]

There is zero reason to blow it up if you trade Kawhi. The team without him this year was 2 games from being a top 3 seed. Don’t be dumb.

If you add a few first round picks and a player and free agents (via SAs own first, a kawhi trade getting you picks and maybe a player and free agency) , this team could easily be a top 3-4 team in the league

:lmao They were practically held together by duct tape. A 32 year old turning in a career season (and playing with the motivation to restore his standing in the league, which has more or less been accomplished) and a 40 year old, who's probably going to retire, occasionally turning back the clock to play closer.

Even if you add Tatum, the best case scenario would be barely making the playoffs, getting blown away by the Warriors or Rockets, ending up with a middling pick and getting on the treadmill of mediocrity.

If they have any sense, they should absolutely look to sell high on Aldridge (he's an awkward piece, so I still don't think his value would be commensurate with his ability). Between the two trades, that should leave them well on their way to an accelerated re-build/load, however you want to term it.

[ElNono]

There is zero reason to blow it up if you trade Kawhi. The team without him this year was 2 games from being a top 3 seed. Don’t be dumb.

If you add a few first round picks and a player and free agents (via SAs own first, a kawhi trade getting you picks and maybe a player and free agency) , this team could easily be a top 3-4 team in the league

But it's probably one of the worst situations to be in this league, tbh... good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to contend.

You don't get good picks, and you don't have legit shots at a championship...

Maybe it's not outright blowing it up entirely, but the Spurs will need to land some sort of star to make up for it. Lebron? Who knows.

This isn't Charlotte where you can con the fans about what it takes to win a championship or be a contender, tbh... once you tasted greatness, middle of the pack doesn't do it anymore, IMO.

[DPG21920]

Have you seen the deals borderline Top10 players have received from Adidas or Nike? :lol He will make that $70M back, 100% guaranteed.

That 20M was offered after he missed a full season and was playing in the little creek of San Antonio. That will easily quadruple. You're uninformed if you believe otherwise.

Even Footlocker is asking fans what team he'll be at next. This city is fucking up his money.

No. Not at all. Market doesn’t matter at all. Lebron doing great in CLE. DAME in POR. Westbrook in OKC. It’s already been debunked.

Yes, the top players are getting massive deals, but that is because they care and market themselves heavily off court. Unless Kawhi is willing to drastically change that side of himself (which seems unlikely) they aren’t just coughing up money for a really unmarketable star no matter how talented he is on the court.

[DPG21920]

But it's probably one of the worst situations to be in this league, tbh... good enough to make the playoffs, but not good enough to contend.

You don't get good picks, and you don't have legit shots at a championship...

Maybe it's not outright blowing it up entirely, but the Spurs will need to land some sort of star to make up for it. Lebron? Who knows.

This isn't Charlotte where you can con the fans about what it takes to win a championship or be a contender, tbh... once you tasted greatness, middle of the pack doesn't do it anymore, IMO.

I think this logic is so misguided.

Spurs would be getting excellent picks in this situation. They would already have a playoff-caliber team but would now add possible lottery picks to that?

If SA had 2 more wins they would have been the third seed. If any other team in the league was basically a third seed record-wise and could add a lottery pick(s) and possible players as well to that same team, who on Earth would advocate blowing it up??

You aren’t going to be able to build a favorite type team no matter what with GS around. You just do the best you can do and this team with lottery picks added along with free agent tweaking knowing what you know now with Kawhi gone, can be a top 4 team.

You under no circumstance blow that up. Ever. Good news is I highly doubt SA would do that so I’m not worried

[duncan2k5]

Kawhi wants to be a spur for life... He is just trying to get better... But it doesn't feel good that the fans he has played his ass off for for years is now turning against him because of the opinion of the medical staff...

The guy wants to stay, and will stay.... I'd quicker ship out LA than Kawhi... ANYDAY... I KNOW Kawhi will be a fighter in the playoffs... LA gives up during the middle of the game, and has very poor body language... He caused a turnover, then watched Gay like it was Gay's fault... Dude is a cancer... Wanted to leave a winning team because he was only scoring 17 a game...

[Hoops Czar]

There is zero reason to blow it up if you trade Kawhi. The team without him this year was 2 games from being a top 3 seed. Don’t be dumb.

If you add a few first round picks and a player and free agents (via SAs own first, a kawhi trade getting you picks and maybe a player and free agency) , this team could easily be a top 3-4 team in the league

but you have to admit it was so nice of Aldridge to have a career year so the Spurs could eek into one of the last remaining Western Conference playoffs spots only to get humiliated in the 1st round and miss out on a lottery pick.

[BD24]

Only way that happens is if Drunkford pays Manu until he's 45 :lol

These unloyal fat Mexicans barely showed up to watch 67-win teams much less a tanking Spurs team that has Fatty Mills and Pau Gasol starting. They better hope the old salvadorean doesn't retire because they'll lose so much money it'll be insane...
I'll elo bet anyone that Spurs don't leave SA in the next 5 years. They will honestly never leave San Antonio, but can't really make a bet on that now can we. I'm down to bet money as well if anyone is more comfortable with that.

So any of you faggots that love to push the faggy narrative of SA fans suck, spurs will leave, etc feel free to sack the fuck up. Until then stfu.

[baseline bum]

There is zero reason to blow it up if you trade Kawhi. The team without him this year was 2 games from being a top 3 seed. Don’t be dumb.


And they were 1 game from being the 9-seed.



If you add a few first round picks and a player and free agents (via SAs own first, a kawhi trade getting you picks and maybe a player and free agency) , this team could easily be a top 3-4 team in the league

They're not a title contending team without Leonard, so no one is coming here without the team grossly overpaying. Without Leonard the Spurs are just another Charlotte, Utah, or Sacramento to free agents.

[DPG21920]

:lmao They were practically held together by duct tape. A 32 year old turning in a career season (and playing with the motivation to restore his standing in the league, which has more or less been accomplished) and a 40 year old, who's probably going to retire, occasionally turning back the clock to play closer.

Even if you add Tatum, the best case scenario would be barely making the playoffs, getting blown away by the Warriors or Rockets, ending up with a middling pick and getting on the treadmill of mediocrity.

If they have any sense, they should absolutely look to sell high on Aldridge (he's an awkward piece, so I still don't think his value would be commensurate with his ability). Between the two trades, that should leave them well on their way to an accelerated re-build/load, however you want to term it.

Ummm, without Tatum and other lottery picks (and the benefit of planning in free agency knowing Kawhi is gone), this team was a playoff team that was every bit as close to the 3rd seed as they were being out.

It’s not hard to think that SA can get way better contributions than they got from MIlls/TP/Manu on a consistent basis which alone would net them 2 wins and put them in the third seed. Let alone lottery level talent and free agency.

[DPG21920]

And they were 1 game from being the 9-seed.



They're not a title contending team without Leonard, so no one is coming here without the team grossly overpaying. Without Leonard the Spurs are just another Charlotte, Utah, or Sacramento to free agents.

Yall are crazy people. Seriously.

:lol Hey, if you cant’ build a team that on paper is considered better than GS, what’s the point??????

GTFO with that IMO.

[TheGreatYacht]

No. Not at all. Market doesn’t matter at all. Lebron doing great in CLE. DAME in POR. Westbrook in OKC. It’s already been debunked.

Yes, the top players are getting massive deals, but that is because they care and market themselves heavily off court. Unless Kawhi is willing to drastically change that side of himself (which seems unlikely) they aren’t just coughing up money for a really unmarketable star no matter how talented he is on the court.
You obviously never saw Kawhi at SDSt... he wasn't the socially awkward dude he is now. The Pop Nazi regime turned him into that. You know, the guy that put Bertans in the doghouse after he fought in Milwaukee? The guy that's always telling his players to get over themselves?

He's willing to do commercials and the quiet stuff will sell easily. Just ask D Rose. Just needs the hype machine like they've put on the bearded terrorist. You see that guy everywhere whether it's on AllState/Adidas/Foot Locker commercials.

[Hoops Czar]

Everybody is going to take a look at his health bill before putting up the dollars. But, unless it's something chronic and unlikely to get better (and we don't know that), then teams will gamble.


Why? Is Kawhi's entourage holding an offseason training session and inviting prospectus GM's and coaches to watch him work out? According to his medical records, he's been cleared to play for months. I agree that a few teams will throw stupid money at him in 2019 but it's still a risky proposition to give up anything of real value this offseason until they know he's completely over his injury and he'll resign with said team.

[HarlemHeat37]

Yall are crazy people. Seriously.

:lol Hey, if you cant’ build a team that on paper is considered better than GS, what’s the point??????

GTFO with that IMO.

I don't completely disagree with you and I think that many of the posters who have mocked you are just covering their own asses, as they said the Spurs couldn't make the playoffs without Kawhi(and said that they were worse than OKC/Denver/Minnesota WITH Kawhi, you know who they are)..

However, the "close to the 3 seed" argument is pretty weak IMO..this was the first time the West had only 2 50-win teams in nearly 30 years..from a depth perspective, it's safe to say that this was the worst West in a looooooong time, so this was somewhat of a fluky season that shouldn't be an indicator of where the Spurs are at in this point of the franchise..

[DPG21920]

Kawhi wants to be a spur for life... He is just trying to get better... But it doesn't feel good that the fans he has played his ass off for for years is now turning against him because of the opinion of the medical staff...

The guy wants to stay, and will stay.... I'd quicker ship out LA than Kawhi... ANYDAY... I KNOW Kawhi will be a fighter in the playoffs... LA gives up during the middle of the game, and has very poor body language... He caused a turnover, then watched Gay like it was Gay's fault... Dude is a cancer... Wanted to leave a winning team because he was only scoring 17 a game...

My friend. The injury aside, which every player has publicly supported Kawhi in, is not the issue. Being around and engaged is the issue (along with communication from the face of the franchise).

Don’t you see that? Everyone wants him to stay and be healthy and get the money he’s earned. They also want him to be a better leader.

[ElNono]

I think this logic is so misguided.

Spurs would be getting excellent picks in this situation. They would already have a playoff-caliber team but would now add possible lottery picks to that?

If SA had 2 more wins they would have been the third seed. If any other team in the league was basically a third seed record-wise and could add a lottery pick(s) and possible players as well to that same team, who on Earth would advocate blowing it up??

You aren’t going to be able to build a favorite type team no matter what with GS around. You just do the best you can do and this team with lottery picks added along with free agent tweaking knowing what you know now with Kawhi gone, can be a top 4 team.

You under no circumstance blow that up. Ever. Good news is I highly doubt SA would do that so I’m not worried

Third seed sounds pretty, but barring significant injuries, this conference is a two team race, then the rest. And by the rest I mean a bunch of middle of the ground teams that are not actively trying to tank and then teams actively tanking.

Picks are obviously great, especially top 10, but they take at least 1-2 years to develop (if not more), and your best player is north of 32 years old. Thats provided the Spurs can actually get those kind of picks in this Kawhi situation, which is far from a sure thing.

I also doubt the Spurs would go that route, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be the best route to go in the long term, tbh.

[DPG21920]

but you have to admit it was so nice of Aldridge to have a career year so the Spurs could eek into one of the last remaining Western Conference playoffs spots only to get humiliated in the 1st round and miss out on a lottery pick.

It was nice. I would much rather have the playoffs and the 18th pick than the 14th and it’s not really even close. You don’t want to miss the playoffs just to jump up 4 spots. If you can be truly bad and get a top 3 pick, ok maybe but for 14th?? No.

[TD 21]

Ummm, without Tatum and other lottery picks (and the benefit of planning in free agency knowing Kawhi is gone), this team was a playoff team that was every bit as close to the 3rd seed as they were being out.

It’s not hard to think that SA can get way better contributions than they got from MIlls/TP/Manu on a consistent basis which alone would net them 2 wins and put them in the third seed. Let alone lottery level talent and free agency.

A '19 lottery pick wouldn't be on the team next season and whatever other young players/picks would be in it, would either be unlikely to be in the rotation or on the team. Most of this team is under contract and likely to return.

:lmao They've been trending down since the calendar turned to '18. If the season were 1 more game and they didn't play a tanking team, at home, in it, they more than likely miss the playoffs altogether. In their current state, they're probably the 11th best team in the West.

Ginobili is probably retiring, Parker probably can't get worse, but he could very well stagnate and Mills is probably going to continue to inexplicably play the expanded role he's graduated to fulltime. Those are not positives.

[SAGirl]

Nonsense. He's a top 5 player in the NBA that had a fallout with his team. Plenty of teams will lineup to max him out. Sure, they'll check the medical status, but unless there's something serious, there's a lot of teams that will take that gamble.
missing out a full year on a personal medical team rehab schedule is serious. I think until he can play the offers will be lukewarm... by that I mean, not really the kind of offers that you can build around.

We shall see. I hope he's healthy at this point, no matter what happens. Worsening chronic condition that needs private medical group treatment continues next season and it's over in terms of him being consider a top player... he's going to have to rehabilitate his value.

[DPG21920]

You obviously never saw Kawhi at SDSt... he wasn't the socially awkward dude he is now. The Pop Nazi regime turned him into that. You know, the guy that put Bertans in the doghouse after he fought in Milwaukee? The guy that's always telling his players to get over themselves?

He's willing to do commercials and the quiet stuff will sell easily. Just ask D Rose. Just needs the hype machine like they've put on the bearded terrorist. You see that guy everywhere whether it's on AllState/Adidas/Foot Locker commercials.

You were just presented with multiple examples of guys in small markets doing so much better than Kawhi.

[ElNono]

Why? Is Kawhi's entourage holding an offseason training session and inviting prospectus GM's and coaches to watch him work out? According to his medical records, he's been cleared to play for months. I agree that a few teams will throw stupid money at him in 2019 but it's still a risky proposition to give up anything of real value this offseason until they know he's completely over his injury and he'll resign with said team.

He's not been cleared by his personal doctor (allegedly), so the question is what's the actual health condition and it's outlook for the future. We're not privy to that info, but prospective teams will have to access that info to make a decision, that much is clear.

The question is when there's access to that info, what is it.

[DPG21920]

I don't completely disagree with you and I think that many of the posters who have mocked you are just covering their own asses, as they said the Spurs couldn't make the playoffs without Kawhi(and said that they were worse than OKC/Denver/Minnesota WITH Kawhi, you know who they are)..

However, the "close to the 3 seed" argument is pretty weak IMO..this was the first time the West had only 2 50-win teams in nearly 30 years..from a depth perspective, it's safe to say that this was the worst West in a looooooong time, so this was somewhat of a fluky season that shouldn't be an indicator of where the Spurs are at in this point of the franchise..

I think it was a fair assessment. The West wasn’t bad because there were only 2 50+ win teams; it was just that it was hyper competitive and jumbled up with no real seperation beneath HOU/GS. I think it will continue that way mostly (maybe there will be a third 50 win team next season).

That was not the point though. Spurs and many other teams were 1–3 wins from damn near everyone having 50 wins. I don’t evaluate things off of a few games here or there. The West was damn good, SA was right in the mix without Kawhi which was devastating because it was out of nowhere.

That was the point my man.

[SAGirl]

Again, even though I don’t think they would, they should not trade Kawhi. Make him suffer both the financial and basketball ramifications of his decisions.

Make sure he loses 70M. Make sure you limit his options on where he can play to teams that have capspace when he’s a free agent after next season.
It's risky but until he's healthy I don't think they will get offers that will allow them to really rebuild, which then doesn't make the trades worth it. You want a pick from the clippers? A pick that if it wasn't for a few good games from Manu Ginobili this year you would have gotten yourself without trading? No way. I think Pop is stuck in this situation.

Maybe I am delusional at this point. I don't think he gets traded...

[DPG21920]

It's risky but until he's healthy I don't think they will get offers that will allow them to really rebuild, which then doesn't make the trades worth it. You want a pick from the clippers? A pick that if it wasn't for a few good games from Manu Ginobili this year you would have gotten yourself without trading? No way. I think Pop is stuck in this situation.

Maybe I am delusional at this point. I don't think he gets traded...

He only gets traded if SA doesn’t want him here. If that decision is made, they will get the best they can even if it’s not what they wanted.

I don’t think it’s the reverse; meaning they won’t keep him because they don’t like the offers. They will make the decision and take what they can.

[TD 21]

It's risky but until he's healthy I don't think they will get offers that will allow them to really rebuild, which then doesn't make the trades worth it. You want a pick from the clippers? A pick that if it wasn't for a few good games from Manu Ginobili this year you would have gotten yourself without trading? No way. I think Pop is stuck in this situation.


Maybe I am delusional at this point. I don't think he gets traded...



He only gets traded if SA doesn’t want him here. If that decision is made, they will get the best they can even if it’s not what they wanted.

I don’t think it’s the reverse; meaning they won’t keep him because they don’t like the offers. They will make the decision and take what they can.


I've maintained this all along . . . yet I couldn't resist getting dragged into trade talk. :lol

[tim_duncan_fan]

Kawhi wants to be a spur for life... He is just trying to get better... But it doesn't feel good that the fans he has played his ass off for for years is now turning against him because of the opinion of the medical staff...

The guy wants to stay, and will stay.... I'd quicker ship out LA than Kawhi... ANYDAY... I KNOW Kawhi will be a fighter in the playoffs... LA gives up during the middle of the game, and has very poor body language... He caused a turnover, then watched Gay like it was Gay's fault... Dude is a cancer... Wanted to leave a winning team because he was only scoring 17 a game...

Kawhi isn't even in support of the team in this playoff. Where are you getting that he wants to be here?

[DMC]

If this is what it comes to, Kawhi will have a lot of sway where he ends up and conversely, what the Spurs can get for him.

With a supermax from the Spurs out of the horizon in this case, it's very likely whoever team wants to bid for Kawhi would want him to sign an extension before agreeing to trade any major pieces, picks.

Teams that would potentially take on him on a one year rental are unlikely to offer anywhere as much, considering the risk he might walk at the end of the season.

Obviously, Kawhi can also just wait out the year, earn the last $19m on his current contract, become a free agent and do as he pleases, without the Spurs getting anything back. This would be the worst case scenario for the Spurs, and one they would want to avoid.

So be prepared for the fact that the Spurs might not have a lot of leverage if this situation plays out. Unfortunately, at this point they would be trying to make the best of a bad situation.
Dude can't walk now. I doubt the other team would fear him leaving. I'd think they'd fear him getting his pussy hurt and deciding by posse committee that he's done for the season.

If your team doctors aren't good enough to release a player to play, what good are they? Maybe the NBA will eventually be such that players have to pay for their own doctors.

[Atl Spur]

Call me crazy, but I actually think they might trade Aldridge.

[baseline bum]

Yall are crazy people. Seriously.

:lol Hey, if you cant’ build a team that on paper is considered better than GS, what’s the point??????

GTFO with that IMO.

You're so focused on that 3-seed even though the Spurs are a 7-seed, and closer to the 9-seed than the 3-seed. They're nothing close to a typical WC (3) seed, which is a team that usually has an underdog shot at a title.

2017: Rockets 55-17
2016: Thunder 55-17
2015: Clippers 56-26
2014: Clippers 57-25
2013: Nuggets 57-25
2012: Lakers 41-25 (extrapolates to 51-31 in an 82 game season)
2011: Mavericks 57-25
2010: Suns 54-28
2009: Spurs 54-28
2008: Spurs 56-26
2007: Spurs 58-24

[SAGirl]

I think this logic is so misguided.

Spurs would be getting excellent picks in this situation. They would already have a playoff-caliber team but would now add possible lottery picks to that?

If SA had 2 more wins they would have been the third seed. If any other team in the league was basically a third seed record-wise and could add a lottery pick(s) and possible players as well to that same team, who on Earth would advocate blowing it up??

You aren’t going to be able to build a favorite type team no matter what with GS around. You just do the best you can do and this team with lottery picks added along with free agent tweaking knowing what you know now with Kawhi gone, can be a top 4 team.

You under no circumstance blow that up. Ever. Good news is I highly doubt SA would do that so I’m not worried

Hopefully the scenario you describe leads to a situation similar to current boston in the sense that you already have a somewhat good team but adding the picks and young talent to it makes you a very good team as in top tier team... when and where it can be termed a contender then you are getting into all sorts of semantics arguments with other fans but I know what you mean. A current good team adds picks and young talent that is carefully drafted and hopefully they take a leap. the youngsters are also in a better development environment. It sounds better to me than rebuild scenarios that involve a complete tear down... you can be in that purgatory for many, many years... look at the Mavs, there's worse examples too. So long as they ship off Patty tbh... just develop some young guards from now on and look around at someone better.

[DPG21920]

You're so focused on that 3-seed even though the Spurs are a 7-seed, and closer to the 9-seed than the 3-seed. They're nothing close to a typical WC (3) seed, which is a team that usually has an underdog shot at a title.

2017: Rockets 55-17
2016: Thunder 55-17
2015: Clippers 56-26
2014: Clippers 57-25
2013: Nuggets 57-25
2012: Lakers 41-25 (extrapolates to 51-31 in an 82 game season)
2011: Mavericks 57-25
2010: Suns 54-28
2009: Spurs 54-28
2008: Spurs 56-26
2007: Spurs 58-24

Im not focused on the third seed; I am providing context. The new West has a ton of talent still. There were only 2 50 win teams. It’s really hard to win 50+ (at least consistently). This year and beyond since there are so many really good 2nd tier teams (below HOU/GS) that winning 50 is tough because they beat each other up.

It doesn’t mean they all suck.

[SAGirl]

another example of good team that just adds a FA in Rubio in the offseason and a good pick (Mitchell) and take a leap is the Jazz.
I do think the Spurs are in a different timeline since both the Jazz and Boston are a lot younger and had been rebuilding for several years... you can debate whether they are contenders or not, but it's fine.
Spurs are a whole lot older. Whatever they decide to do, I am fine with. I still think Kawhi is a spur next season and we shall see what happens. I think Sprus will only trade him for top value (think it was objective who said the top 2 picks in this draft otherwise move along, I agree with him). If Spurs don't get what they want they hold on to him and see what happens next season.

[baseline bum]

Im not focused on the third seed; I am providing context. The new West has a ton of talent still. There were only 2 50 win teams. It’s really hard to win 50+ (at least consistently). This year and beyond since there are so many really good 2nd tier teams (below HOU/GS) that winning 50 is tough because they beat each other up.

It doesn’t mean they all suck.

You have been talking about them being 2 games from the 3-seed nonstop. They're at the low end of a bunch of playoff teams bunched up together for that have no chance at competing for the conference. You seem to act like it's some kind of fluke they're the 7-seed instead of the 3-seed but their road performance has been terrible since the All Star break and they're a team that just barely held on to make the playoffs. If it wasn't for Curry + Thompson + Durant + Green all being injured one game this is a lottery team. This just isn't a great situation worth holding on to. The team is way too flawed with stupid contracts for non-productive players and minimal young talent.

[DPG21920]

You have been talking about them being 2 games from the 3-seed nonstop. They're at the low end of a bunch of playoff teams bunched up together for that have no chance at competing for the conference. You seem to act like it's some kind of fluke they're the 7-seed instead of the 3-seed but their road performance has been terrible since the All Star break and they're a team that just barely held on to make the playoffs. If it wasn't for Curry + Thompson + Durant + Green all being injured one game this is a lottery team. This just isn't a great situation worth holding on to. The team is way too flawed with stupid contracts for non-productive players and minimal young talent.

Because it’s a counter/context to those saying “tank tank tank!” They are every bit as close to the top side of the playoff seeds as being out.

You are wrong about how to go about things, but like I said, unless LMA demands to be traded or something SA isn’t going to blow it up whether Kawhi is moved or not.

Also, your analysis is hilarious. You keep citing all the “lucky” breaks SA had. The “lucky” breaks are no where near the bad breaks. SA led by double digits in an insane amount of games and just statistically speaking they should have several more wins if they didn’t have some miraculous meltdowns.

Many of the road losses, even vs good teams, SA had those games and just something crazy happened at the end (like crappy Lonzo draining 3’s so far beyond his normal average).

[SAGirl]

It was nice. I would much rather have the playoffs and the 18th pick than the 14th and it’s not really even close. You don’t want to miss the playoffs just to jump up 4 spots. If you can be truly bad and get a top 3 pick, ok maybe but for 14th?? No.
I agree.
first of all, if you are going to tank do it properly. Get rid of vets that have no business playing in this team. I know you are a Tony fan but no. Play White to begin with.
Second, if you are tanking you want to lose early and often. It wasn't possible this year bc Kiwi really wanted to play (tried in December and shut himself down) he kept trying to come back as late as mid march. At some point Spurs lost hope that he would make it but then it was almost with the playoffs upon them. They had veterans who might retire in the team, and win now players like Gay,\ who really signed with the team to win and get in the playoffs and competed really hard towards that. Don't you think veterans also get upset with franchises when they are getting benched bc the team is tanking? It is not just Silver cracking down on that, but guys want the heck out. Good luck luring anyone else next summer with those circumstances. It wasn't feasible this year.
Third there is no much difference between 14-18 most of the time.

I also think you learn a lot of things in the playoffs about players, like regular season warriors folding in the playoffs, and hopefully, might be wishful thinking but you discover something good about someone. Even all this Kiwi saga would have been hushed up with the Spurs going into the summer in a lot of uncertainty with nothing to be heard from them until the draft perhaps... whereas now bc they are in the playoffs the media is inquiring.

Finally I'd hope that guys who have folded repeatedly in the playoffs whether or not they are culture guys, the Spurs have good reasons to move on from and can have an honest sit down with them based on recent performance including playoffs.

[DPG21920]

Even with an UNEXPECTED no Kawhi. Even with little from TP/Manu consistently. Even with Mills and a new starting PG, SA made the playoffs.

It’s not hard to imagine with simply replacing TP/Manu with either minutes for White and/or free agents, plus maybe some first round picks, that this team could win 4-6 more games which puts them over 50 AGAIN

[baseline bum]

Also, your analysis is hilarious. You keep citing all the “lucky” breaks SA had. The “lucky” breaks are no where near the bad breaks. SA led by double digits in an insane amount of games and just statistically speaking they should have several more wins if they didn’t have some miraculous meltdowns.

If something keeps happening all the time you just think it's bad luck?

[DPG21920]

If something keeps happening all the time you just think it's bad luck?

Sometimes, ya. That’s not to say SA doesn’t have legit issues. It’s clear they do. I”m saying you can’t just look at something only on the negative and conveniently forget about the bad luck too.

They played well in many of the road losses and then just melted down. Is what it is, but let’s not act like they just only won games and made the playoffs just because of good luck!!

[DPG21920]

I’m not saying SA doesn’t have holes. But they can improve and there is no way you blow up a playoff-level team that you can reasonably say that with some tweaks (free agency, draft picks, trades) can win 50+

Even with a team who you think sucks horribly, they won nearly 50. You are saying you don’t think a lottery pick or multiple plus some free agents and replacing TP/Manu and maybe Mills will net them 3 more wins?

[cjw]

Again, even though I don’t think they would, they should not trade Kawhi. Make him suffer both the financial and basketball ramifications of his decisions.

Make sure he loses 70M. Make sure you limit his options on where he can play to teams that have capspace when he’s a free agent after next season.

Finally someone who gets it. Cap space is going to be tight and his options will be severely limited if the Spurs don’t facilitate a S&T. Everyone looking at teams as having space in 15 months forget to project out the fact that they’ll sign players & rookies this offseason. The options may not look that great 15 months from now, especially if Lebron and George eat up some of that max space cooking in places like LA or Philly.

[acoelho1]

As I said in another thread, the Spurs need to keep Kawhi at all cost, which means offering the Supermax. You dont trade players with his talents. Obviously, if he declines and wants to be traded then you have to assess if this relationship can be repaired. My guess is if he wants out, he or his inner circle definitely wants to go to one of the L.A. teams and be closer to home. My hope is Pop and RC will resolve the issue in offseason. Remember LA was halfway out the door and he had a great year. Lets hope for the same ending in this saga.

[Strategic]

Yes, the top players are getting massive deals, but that is because they care and market themselves heavily off court. Unless Kawhi is willing to drastically change that side of himself (which seems unlikely) they aren’t just coughing up money for a really unmarketable star no matter how talented he is on the court. Maybe he’s taking some classes at the Julliard School during his spare time in New York. At least he could properly act like he gives a damn.

[baseline bum]

Again, even though I don’t think they would, they should not trade Kawhi. Make him suffer both the financial and basketball ramifications of his decisions.

Make sure he loses 70M. Make sure you limit his options on where he can play to teams that have capspace when he’s a free agent after next season.

So you want to lose Kawhi for nothing and not trade Aldridge?

[DPG21920]

So you want to lose Kawhi for nothing and not trade Aldridge?

The not trading him part was me being upset if all of this is true. I don’t really think that would happen. It was me frustrated at how snakey this Kawhi has been (if the reports are true)

[vy65]

You have been talking about them being 2 games from the 3-seed nonstop. They're at the low end of a bunch of playoff teams bunched up together for that have no chance at competing for the conference. You seem to act like it's some kind of fluke they're the 7-seed instead of the 3-seed but their road performance has been terrible since the All Star break and they're a team that just barely held on to make the playoffs. If it wasn't for Curry + Thompson + Durant + Green all being injured one game this is a lottery team. This just isn't a great situation worth holding on to. The team is way too flawed with stupid contracts for non-productive players and minimal young talent.

Holy fuck. Bold this man.

[RD2191]

The not trading him part was me being upset if all of this is true. I don’t really think that would happen. It was me frustrated at how snakey this Kawhi has been (if the reports are true)

Snakey:lol

[Mugen]

:lol This team sans Kawhi is so below championship level contention, it's not even funny. They're about to be swept ( i doubt any game is competitive tbh) by a team missing its most important player.

Calling them a piece or two away from FA and the draft from being a top 3-4 contender is such a massive mischaracterization.

Unfortunately, I doubt the FO will tank because Pop probably still has a couple of years left. But if Kawhi isn't on the team these next 3-4 seasons, the Spurs aren't even sniffing a Finals appearance let alone a championship.

[r0drig0lac]

:lol This team sans Kawhi is so below championship level contention, it's not even funny. They're about to be swept ( i doubt any game is competitive tbh) by a team missing its most important player.

Calling them a piece or two away from FA and the draft from being a top 3-4 contender is such a massive mischaracterization.

Unfortunately, I doubt the FO will tank because Pop probably still has a couple of years left. But if Kawhi isn't on the team these next 3-4 seasons, the Spurs aren't even sniffing a Finals appearance let alone a championship.

I would call it "a complete joke"

[DPG21920]

:lol This team sans Kawhi is so below championship level contention, it's not even funny. They're about to be swept ( i doubt any game is competitive tbh) by a team missing its most important player.

Calling them a piece or two away from FA and the draft from being a top 3-4 contender is such a massive mischaracterization.

Unfortunately, I doubt the FO will tank because Pop probably still has a couple of years left. But if Kawhi isn't on the team these next 3-4 seasons, the Spurs aren't even sniffing a Finals appearance let alone a championship.

No it’s not. It’s GS world right now, that doesn’t mean you blow things up. Other than GS and maybe HOU, who would be better than SA with this LMA and replacing TP/Manu with White and lottery pick(s) and some other hand pick free agents?

[SAGirl]

:lol This team sans Kawhi is so below championship level contention, it's not even funny. They're about to be swept ( i doubt any game is competitive tbh) by a team missing its most important player.

Calling them a piece or two away from FA and the draft from being a top 3-4 contender is such a massive mischaracterization.

Unfortunately, I doubt the FO will tank because Pop probably still has a couple of years left. But if Kawhi isn't on the team these next 3-4 seasons, the Spurs aren't even sniffing a Finals appearance let alone a championship.
I just assume a lot of dead weight they are carrying will be replaced with young talent or better FA.
Whether RC can pull that magic I don't know. They have saddled themselves with too much loyalty deals, etc..

[Mugen]

No it’s not. It’s GS world right now, that doesn’t mean you blow things up. Other than GS and maybe HOU, who would be better than SA with this LMA and replacing TP/Manu with White and lottery pick(s) and some other hand pick free agents?

Man, Deeps. I just can't believe you look at this roster and look back on this season and think "this team is a Derrick White and quality starter away from being a top 3-4 team in the league."

This squad would have been lucky to eek 2 games out against Denver. The lack of talent is frighteningly bad. Their 2nd best player this season is either 40 years old or Rudy F'N Gay coming off an achilles tear :lol

[DPG21920]

Dude, lol, the teams you all loved talent wise (Minny, Portland, OKC) had the same record basically as SA :lol

Maybe you all don’t evaluate talent properly. Answer the question though, besides Golden State and Houston, who would be better than the Spurs if they had this team + lottery picks + free agents?

Or if the Spurs had Kawhi, you don’t think they would have 5-10 more wins? That would have SA at 52-57 wins. That’s a contender my man.

Not better than GS or HOU maybe, but like a said the 3rd or 4th best team in the league.

[DPG21920]

I just don’t get the idea that if you can put yourself in the 3rd or 4th best team convo that just because it’s not above GS or HOU that blowing it up is better? Makes no sense to me.

[baseline bum]

No it’s not. It’s GS world right now, that doesn’t mean you blow things up. Other than GS and maybe HOU, who would be better than SA with this LMA and replacing TP/Manu with White and lottery pick(s) and some other hand pick free agents?

Which makes it an even better time to blow it up. At least with a healthy Leonard you had a puncher's chance (like we saw last season). But there is no realistic way to have a puncher's chance replacing him. The only way I'd keep the team together is if the Spurs want to call Kawhi's bluff by not trading him and daring him to be a bitch for a second season. Now that I think more about it, I think I'm on board with doing that since I don't think they'd trade Aldridge for value this summer.

[RD2191]

I just don’t get the idea that if you can put yourself in the 3rd or 4th best team convo that just because it’s not above GS or HOU that blowing it up is better? Makes no sense to me.

Why wait to blow it up though?

[CGD]

Even if Austin and DJ opt in, we still have plenty of cap space in 2019. Not exactly "dire."

You’re right re Clips in summer of 2019 (DJ and Austin come off books), i was looking at this summer so my f-up.

Still, the calculus is different but might still make the Clips move before then: (1) what team are Clips going to pitch Leonard on in 2019 vis-a-vis other destinations; and (2) do you move now when you have two first rounders (and amazingly none for a while after that) if you think another team has an inside track.

[baseline bum]

I just don’t get the idea that if you can put yourself in the 3rd or 4th best team convo that just because it’s not above GS or HOU that blowing it up is better? Makes no sense to me.

I don't think they can. You think they're going to be better than Boston? That's going to be a 60 win team next year. The Sixers will probably be close too. The Spurs are going to be better than Toronto? Or whoever LeBron goes to?

[Mugen]

Luckily for all the fans that will be happy just to keep a meaningless playoff streak alive only to get skullfucked by HOU/GS the next 3 years, PATFO will never ever blow it up.

We'll see a Kawhi trade for 50 cents on the dollar, give Porky a 2 year thank you contract, double down on the Patty/Pau deals, probably another 10mil/year deal to Danny, overpay Fathead...at least Manu won't have to sit through another season of this mediocrity.....

We'll convince ourselves that Dejounte/White is a star backcourt in the making, overhype whatever 18th pick we end up with....only to be curbstomped again by a real team. Maybe they overachieve tho and make a 2nd round appearance so Pop can get outcoached by Alvin Gentry or Billy Donovan :lol

[Chinook]

If this is what it comes to, Kawhi will have a lot of sway where he ends up and conversely, what the Spurs can get for him.

No, he won't. PG didn't get to go to LA despite having a clean bill of health and explicitly saying he wanted to go there. People like to complain about Indy's return, but it was about as good as you can expect . Imagine if they'd've gotten Kyrie's return instead. Shit, Cousins straight-up threatened to leave the team that traded for him, and he went for a lightly protected lotto first, a rookie mid-lotto pick and a decent vet. 80 percent of the offers discussed here are in that same caliber. If the offers are low, it will be because of health, not because of where he's going to reup.

That said, I do think teams will suppress offers with the idea that Kawhi may not play a game there. Phoenix may not risk the top pick for him, though I do think Warren and 15 would happen even if Kawhi had a leg amputated. A team like the Clippers, who are likely to buy into the LA hype, might comparatively sell the farm for Leonard. Boston may want to nickel and dime PATFO, but fuck Boston. Ultimately, the biggest determinant in how well the Spurs make out in a Leonard trade will be RC's ability to evaluate a package. Oladipo probably gets a top-five pick in this draft. No one would have thought that a year ago. As mentioned IT and Crowder were hot garbage, and the Brooklyn pick is mediocre. Going for the next Oladipo-like turnaround and avoiding the IT-like pitfall will make or break the team.

[DPG21920]

Which makes it an even better time to blow it up. At least with a healthy Leonard you had a puncher's chance (like we saw last season). But there is no realistic way to have a puncher's chance replacing him. The only way I'd keep the team together is if the Spurs want to call Kawhi's bluff by not trading him and daring him to be a bitch for a second season. Now that I think more about it, I think I'm on board with doing that since I don't think they'd trade Aldridge for value this summer.

No - you see with injuries (like Curry) that it’s way better to hang around. Trading LMA isnt going to net you the first pick or something.

I would rather have the 3rd or 4th best team in the league with lottery picks (maybe multiple with a Kawhi trade) and do your best for 2-3 years as they develop and then in 3 years you have a great core and lots of free agent money as LMA is on his way out.

You realize what you’re saying. If you think LMA can net you the 14th pick (not taking into considering money), then you would really not rather have a shot at being the 3rd or 4th best team in the league for 3 years that has lottery picks with or without a LMA trade for the sake of getting the 14th pick?

[DPG21920]

Why wait to blow it up though?

Because you don’t blow up teams that with a few tweaks that can both be a conf finals team and have lottery talent already (if Kawhi is traded).

[HarlemHeat37]

No, he won't. PG didn't get to go to LA despite having a clean bill of health and explicitly saying he wanted to go there. People like to complain about Indy's return, but it was about as good as you can expect . Imagine if they'd've gotten Kyrie's return instead. Shit, Cousins straight-up threatened to leave the team that traded for him, and he went for a lightly protected lotto first, a rookie mid-lotto pick and a decent vet. 80 percent of the offers discussed here are in that same caliber. If the offers are low, it will be because of health, not because of where he's going to reup.

That said, I do think teams will suppress offers with the idea that Kawhi may not play a game there. Phoenix may not risk the top pick for him, though I do think Warren and 15 would happen even if Kawhi had a leg amputated. A team like the Clippers, who are likely to buy into the LA hype, might comparatively sell the farm for Leonard. Boston may want to nickel and dime PATFO, but fuck Boston. Ultimately, the biggest determinant in how well the Spurs make out in a Leonard trade will be RC's ability to evaluate a package. Oladipo probably gets a top-five pick in this draft. No one would have thought that a year ago. As mentioned IT and Crowder were hot garbage, and the Brooklyn pick is mediocre. Going for the next Oladipo-like turnaround and avoiding the IT-like pitfall will make or break the team.

:vomit:

[DPG21920]

I don't think they can. You think they're going to be better than Boston? That's going to be a 60 win team next year. The Sixers will probably be close too. The Spurs are going to be better than Toronto? Or whoever LeBron goes to?

Ya - I do. Again, imagine this year if SA had Mitchell (a rookie lottery pick) + another free agent + no TP/Manu but instead White or other rotational players. You don’t think they would be better than the teams you listed?

[K...]

All this blow it up shit is dumb. It's not our decision and it's an unknowable decision.

The first issue: how healthy is kawhi, does that impact trade value or 2019 FA $$$.

The second: how good are the trade offers

The third: is that offer good enough to avoid the tank.

Spurs are not going to tank unless the vets retire and LMA agrees or consents to a trade. While to us, we have selfish demands, the team has relationships and business demands. It won't line up with spurtalk demands.

[DPG21920]

Luckily for all the fans that will be happy just to keep a meaningless playoff streak alive only to get skullfucked by HOU/GS the next 3 years, PATFO will never ever blow it up.

We'll see a Kawhi trade for 50 cents on the dollar, give Porky a 2 year thank you contract, double down on the Patty/Pau deals, probably another 10mil/year deal to Danny, overpay Fathead...at least Manu won't have to sit through another season of this mediocrity.....

We'll convince ourselves that Dejounte/White is a star backcourt in the making, overhype whatever 18th pick we end up with....only to be curbstomped again by a real team. Maybe they overachieve tho and make a 2nd round appearance so Pop can get outcoached by Alvin Gentry or Billy Donovan :lol

There’s the optimist I love.

Think about it, man. Let’s say you blow it up. How does that help you get past GS/HOU? Are you saying just wait them out for years on end? Who’s to say they won’t keep it going and land other stars?

SA is one of the few teams that can be in that 2nd tier while rebuilding on the fly (if you trade Kawhi) and get the best of both worlds.

Blowing it up only means trading LMA and Kawhi. It’s not like trading LMA is going to get you the top pick back or something. There is no reason to blow it up when you can have the best of both worlds if you trade Kawhi.

If you keep Kawhi, even with this exact same team we have this year, SA IS the third best team if not 2nd.

[baseline bum]

Ya - I do. Again, imagine this year if SA had Mitchell (a rookie lottery pick) + another free agent + no TP/Manu but instead White or other rotational players. You don’t think they would be better than the teams you listed?

So if Buford strikes gold on a single pick that plays at a star level from day 1 and the Spurs sign a hot shot free agent and White is good? Probably still not better than next year's Celtics or Sixers.

[DPG21920]

So if Buford strikes gold on a single pick that plays at a star level from day 1 and the Spurs sign a hot shot free agent and White is good? Probably still not better than next year's Celtics or Sixers.

So you are knocking my plan, but your plan is to sell a star for another pick that you seem to be questioning the value of :lol

[coachmac87]

Again, even though I don’t think they would, they should not trade Kawhi. Make him suffer both the financial and basketball ramifications of his decisions.

Make sure he loses 70M. Make sure you limit his options on where he can play to teams that have capspace when he’s a free agent after next season.


This.

[DPG21920]

So if Buford strikes gold on a single pick that plays at a star level from day 1 and the Spurs sign a hot shot free agent and White is good? Probably still not better than next year's Celtics or Sixers.

Also, you would not need a star from day 1. If you just added a solid rookie (Tatum wasn’t a star, but lets use him) and just a MLE type player (Tyreke Evans type) and White you think that is unreasonable that SA would not have gone over 50 wins with that?

If SA had Mitchell (a star from day 1) they would be even further ahead.

[Mugen]

There’s the optimist I love.

Think about it, man. Let’s say you blow it up. How does that help you get past GS/HOU? Are you saying just wait them out for years on end? Who’s to say they won’t keep it going and land other stars?

SA is one of the few teams that can be in that 2nd tier while rebuilding on the fly (if you trade Kawhi) and get the best of both worlds.

Blowing it up only means trading LMA and Kawhi. It’s not like trading LMA is going to get you the top pick back or something. There is no reason to blow it up when you can have the best of both worlds if you trade Kawhi.

If you keep Kawhi, even with this exact same team we have this year, SA IS the third best team if not 2nd.

I guess I'm just not interested in being a perennial 3rd - 7th seed for the next 5 years. I'd much rather go the Hinkie route and get as many cracks at landing a generational talent as you can. A team with Lamarcus Aldridge as it's best player isn't going to win a championship, I know I don't have to convince you of that :lol

My scenario of blowing it up is for when you're sure Kawhi isn't on the team anymore (i put it as high probability that he's traded this summer). If he's on the team then yeah keep taking your shots for the next 2 years and hope Curry or Dominos tear an ACL during the season.

[DPG21920]

I think when people get caught on this, they really don’t go through the exercise of thinking this out.

If you tank, there are no guarantees you can get back. You would have to not only nail your picks (which you just said doesn’t seem that much of a sure thing) but you also have to convince free agents to come (and you just admitted you’re tanking) and you have to hope you other guys Murray/White etc..develop. The downside is crazy and unless you are bad enough to get the top pick, the upside is limited.

OR

You keep making the playoffs, have a team that can 50 games or more (if you keep Kawhi or trade him) and you can still get almost as much lottery picks and not NEED them to be homeruns to be a playoff team. If they are homeruns, you are now a legit contender.

[Mugen]

Also, you would not need a star from day 1. If you just added a solid rookie (Tatum wasn’t a star, but lets use him) and just a MLE type player (Tyreke Evans type) and White you think that is unreasonable that SA would not have gone over 50 wins with that?

If SA had Mitchell (a star from day 1) they would be even further ahead.

Sure, that team wins 50 and flames out in the 1st round. What a successful season :lol

[baseline bum]

So you are knocking my plan, but your plan is to sell a star for another pick that you seem to be questioning the value of :lol

Your plan is put all your eggs into one basket with one draft pick who needs to be the ROY (which Mitchell would be most seasons).

[DPG21920]

I guess I'm just not interested in being a perennial 3rd - 7th seed for the next 5 years. I'd much rather go the Hinkie route and get as many cracks at landing a generational talent as you can. A team with Lamarcus Aldridge as it's best player isn't going to win a championship, I know I don't have to convince you of that :lol

My scenario of blowing it up is for when you're sure Kawhi isn't on the team anymore (i put it as high probability that he's traded this summer). If he's on the team then yeah keep taking your shots for the next 2 years and hope Curry or Dominos tear an ACL during the season.

Ya but if you blow it up, even if you land Embiid, how does that give you a better shot at beating GS assuming they don’t keep pulling off moves?

You have to be bad enough to get the number one pick (maybe twice) to get what PHI did and SA isn’t in any better situation to acquire those assets by trading LMA IMO. Kawhi is the piece that can get you those assets; not LMA.

[baseline bum]

Also, you would not need a star from day 1. If you just added a solid rookie (Tatum wasn’t a star, but lets use him) and just a MLE type player (Tyreke Evans type) and White you think that is unreasonable that SA would not have gone over 50 wins with that?

If SA had Mitchell (a star from day 1) they would be even further ahead.

I thought we were gonna be better than Boston and Philly and Toronto and Team LeBron.

[DPG21920]

Your plan is put all your eggs into one basket with one draft pick who needs to be the ROY (which Mitchell would be most seasons).

No - my plan is be a playoff team without anyone we’ve discussed and any help is better than no Kawhi. IF you get a Mitchell; you’re now a contender. If you get just a bleh player, you are still a playoff team.

In your scenario, there is no going back. If you don’t land a Mitchell, SA is in hell for God knows how long. If you DO get a Mitchell, you still have a ton of work to do just to get back to where SA ALREADY IS.

[Chinook]

:vomit:

Well, obviously, I don't want Warren. The point, though, is that even teams that probably don't feel like Kawhi will stay will offer the team a chance to start reloading. That forces the more confident/desperate teams to raise their bids. Like LA can't necessarily afford to sit back on their laurels and assume Kawhi's going to make it there. My guess is Magic learned for the PG trade that tampering isn't enough.

[DPG21920]

I thought we were gonna be better than Boston and Philly and Toronto and Team LeBron.

With no Kawhi you thought that??

[Mugen]

Maybe it's cuz I don't live in San Antonio so I don't give a fuck if the team is somewhat competitive to keep drawing the local crowd.

But I'd much rather be absolute shit for the next 4 seasons and be the Sixers in year 5. Then be a 4th seed for the next 10 years without any realistic chance at a ring.

[baseline bum]

With no Kawhi you thought that??

That's what you were telling me.

[DPG21920]

Sure, that team wins 50 and flames out in the 1st round. What a successful season :lol

Bruh - no. This SA team as currently constructed with old a** TP/Manu and no Kawhi would have a great shot at getting to the 2nd round if they played anyone but HOU/GS.

[Chinook]

Your plan is put all your eggs into one basket with one draft pick who needs to be the ROY (which Mitchell would be most seasons).

Why do you keep saying this? What's the downside if that pick doesn't work out? The "rebuild" takes longer? That we'll have to sit through another terrible 47-win season? Sounds so much worse than just blowing it up now and completely removing the possibility that they do draft a Mitchell of their own, or even another Kawhi in this draft.

[DPG21920]

That's what you were telling me.

I’m confused. I said that if you remove TP/Manu/Kawhi and replace them with White, our first round pick, whatever assets you get for Kawhi and free agency that SA would be better than all the teams you mentioned or at least be right there.

[DPG21920]

Maybe it's cuz I don't live in San Antonio so I don't give a fuck if the team is somewhat competitive to keep drawing the local crowd.

But I'd much rather be absolute shit for the next 4 seasons and be the Sixers in year 5. Then be a 4th seed for the next 10 years without any realistic chance at a ring.

The Sixers in year 5 isn’t a sure thing although it looks damn good now. What I’m saying is LMA doesn’t get you the assets to do what PHI did.

Kawhi does the best job of that. Trading LmA for let’s say an additional 14th pick or something doesn’t really do anything, so why freaking do that??

If LmA wants out, ok, but you should never break up a playoff team that you can also rebuild with hopefully top talent (in a Kawhi trade).

[Mugen]

Ya but if you blow it up, even if you land Embiid, how does that give you a better shot at beating GS assuming they don’t keep pulling off moves?

You have to be bad enough to get the number one pick (maybe twice) to get what PHI did and SA isn’t in any better situation to acquire those assets by trading LMA IMO. Kawhi is the piece that can get you those assets; not LMA.

Kawhi gets you a lottery pick in this year's draft. There's a good chance Lamarcus gets you a lottery pick in next year's draft as well. The Spurs sans Kawhi and LMA (regardless of what other mid-tier type players you get back in those trades) is at Phoenix Suns level of talent. That gives you a high lottery pick in the 2019 draft. That's 4 top 20 picks these next 2 drafts. Hell you might not even have to be as bad that long like Philly was considering how RC is good at drafting/scouting/player development. You'll be crappy for 2-3 seasons but you're gonna look at lot better in year 4 than what you're looking at if you just keep getting playoff spots with LMA as your best player.

[Chinook]

Maybe it's cuz I don't live in San Antonio so I don't give a fuck if the team is somewhat competitive to keep drawing the local crowd.

But I'd much rather be absolute shit for the next 4 seasons and be the Sixers in year 5. Then be a 4th seed for the next 10 years without any realistic chance at a ring.

The Sixers are barely the Sixers right now. Why people think they'd get to that level instead of being like SAC or ORL or MKE before Giannis is beyond me. Hell, they could draft extremely well and be like Denver is or like Utah was in before this season. The Spurs even now, are closer to a ring than a lot of teams that have been blowing it up for a lot longer.

[MannyIsGod]

There is zero reason to blow it up if you trade Kawhi. The team without him this year was 2 games from being a top 3 seed. Don’t be dumb.

If you add a few first round picks and a player and free agents (via SAs own first, a kawhi trade getting you picks and maybe a player and free agency) , this team could easily be a top 3-4 team in the league

This is the simple logic but it seems some people are hell bent on tanking. They think you're automatically going to end up with a franchise player.

[HarlemHeat37]

[/B]
Kawhi gets you a lottery pick in this year's draft. There's a good chance Lamarcus gets you a lottery pick in next year's draft as well. The Spurs sans Kawhi and LMA (regardless of what other mid-tier type players you get back in those trades) is at Phoenix Suns level of talent. That gives you a high lottery pick in the 2019 draft. That's 4 top 20 picks these next 2 drafts. Hell you might not even have to be as bad that long like Philly was considering how RC is good at drafting/scouting/player development. You'll be crappy for 2-3 seasons but you're gonna look at lot better in year 4 than what you're looking at if you just keep getting playoff spots with LMA as your best player.

Pop is coaching until his Team USA gig, no way the Spurs are going to rebuild in the next 2-3 years..I'd be cool with it, as well, but it isn't going to happen..

I don't think the Spurs can do anything to become a real contender, but they aren't too far from being a fun 2nd round team who could win 1 or 2 games in that round..that's good enough until Pop retires IMO..

[MannyIsGod]

Kawhi wants to be a spur for life... He is just trying to get better... But it doesn't feel good that the fans he has played his ass off for for years is now turning against him because of the opinion of the medical staff...

The guy wants to stay, and will stay.... I'd quicker ship out LA than Kawhi... ANYDAY... I KNOW Kawhi will be a fighter in the playoffs... LA gives up during the middle of the game, and has very poor body language... He caused a turnover, then watched Gay like it was Gay's fault... Dude is a cancer... Wanted to leave a winning team because he was only scoring 17 a game...


What the fuck are you smoking.

[tbdog]

Sixers were a disgrace of the league for a number of years. They blew a lot of drafts and were lucky that some stuck. Heck, even Embid breaking his foot before draft day allowed him to slip. Have a look at their success rate with the amount of draft picks they had. I have nothing against the players, but I would love to see Sixers strategy back fire on them, because it was appalling way to treat their fan base. It's just a pitty that Denver are in the West, because they would be playing in the playoffs while in the rebuild. They have an fun team to watch as well.

[baseline bum]

I’m confused. I said that if you remove TP/Manu/Kawhi and replace them with White, our first round pick, whatever assets you get for Kawhi and free agency that SA would be better than all the teams you mentioned or at least be right there.

Yes I know. One minute it's let's lose Leonard for nothing. Next minute it's we're just about a 3-seed. Then we're drafting Mitchell and top 3 in the league. It's quite a head spinning conversation.

[Mugen]

Bruh - no. This SA team as currently constructed with old a** TP/Manu and no Kawhi would have a great shot at getting to the 2nd round if they played anyone but HOU/GS.

I strongly disagree. This team feasted on lottery or injury plagued teams to get to a 7th seed.

What are their impressive wins from this year? A road win against a terrible Cavs team that has a chance of flaming out against the Pacers? Home win against Houston that had nothing to play for and was missing Paul?

This team struggled in a must win game against the Kings and was dogshit on the road for the entire season. This team minus MVP level performances from Lamarcus is a bottom 5 team in the league. They have very little NBA level talent at this point sans LMA/Kawhi.

[DPG21920]

Yes I know. One minute it's let's lose Leonard for nothing. Next minute it's we're just about a 3-seed. Then we're drafting Mitchell and top 3 in the league. It's quite a head spinning conversation.

My friend, you are the only one confused here with what I’m saying. :lol

[Mugen]

Guess I've been MIA from the board for too long this season because I'm genuinely surprised that people are still overrating the talent on the roster. Outside of Lamarcus and a 40yo Manu, there isn't a single guy on this roster I'd want on a team competing for a championship tbh.

[CGD]

Question: there is nothing in stone that the designated player level offer has to be made this summer as opposed to in the summer of 2019? If the spurs don’t move Leonard now, they still have that massive trump card to play in the summer of 2019, no?

[Mugen]

^ I take that back. I'd want Patty in a 12th man role waiving that towel. Great cheerleader.

[baseline bum]

The Sixers are barely the Sixers right now. Why people think they'd get to that level instead of being like SAC or ORL or MKE before Giannis is beyond me. Hell, they could draft extremely well and be like Denver is or like Utah was in before this season. The Spurs even now, are closer to a ring than a lot of teams that have been blowing it up for a lot longer.

It's because the Spurs have a front office that has a proven track record in making great picks. I don't know why you think Buford is going to pick Stauskas and Jimmer but you must think so since you keep bringing up the Kings.

[baseline bum]

Question: there is nothing in stone that the designated player level offer has to be made this summer as opposed to in the summer of 2019? If the spurs don’t move Leonard now, they still have that massive trump card to play in the summer of 2019, no?

If he makes an All-NBA Team next year I believe. I'd have to look it up though.

[Mugen]

It's because the Spurs have a front office that has a proven track record in making great picks. I don't know why you think Buford is going to pick Stauskas and Jimmer but you must think so since you keep bringing up the Kings.

:lol RC plucked Kawhi at 15t. Apparently, we're supposed to be fucking Vlade & the Kings if we have top 5 picks.

[DPG21920]

Guess I've been MIA from the board for too long this season because I'm genuinely surprised that people are still overrating the talent on the roster. Outside of Lamarcus and a 40yo Manu, there isn't a single guy on this roster I'd want on a team competing for a championship tbh.

This is INCREDIBLE to me :lol

People are saying the talent is OVERRATED when you are calling them trash and that the team should blow it up when without Kawhi all damn year this trash talent made the playoffs :lol

[DPG21920]

It's because the Spurs have a front office that has a proven track record in making great picks. I don't know why you think Buford is going to pick Stauskas and Jimmer but you must think so since you keep bringing up the Kings.

So if they are good at drafting, wouldn’t you rather be a contender now by drafting a top flight player and adding that person plus free agents to this current playoff team that was 3 games shy of 50 wins with no help?

[MannyIsGod]

Maybe it's cuz I don't live in San Antonio so I don't give a fuck if the team is somewhat competitive to keep drawing the local crowd.

But I'd much rather be absolute shit for the next 4 seasons and be the Sixers in year 5. Then be a 4th seed for the next 10 years without any realistic chance at a ring.

The Sixers have been shit for much longer than 4 years. The Sixers will go back to being shit if Embid is as fragile as Blake Griffin and he is. The sixers aren't the only team who's been tanking to get better, and they're not all good now. This shit isn't just as simple as lose for a few years and land the next franchise player.

[DPG21920]

Question: there is nothing in stone that the designated player level offer has to be made this summer as opposed to in the summer of 2019? If the spurs don’t move Leonard now, they still have that massive trump card to play in the summer of 2019, no?

Kind of. If in theory SA doesn’t offer Kawhi an extension and they agree to re-evaluate next Summer, Kawhi would have to re-qualify for that SuperMax to be eligible for it.

So it’s possible, but not guaranteed.

[DPG21920]

The Sixers have been shit for much longer than 4 years. The Sixers will go back to being shit if Embid is as fragile as Blake Griffin and he is. The sixers aren't the only team who's been tanking to get better, and they're not all good now. This shit isn't just as simple as lose for a few years and land the next franchise player.

The funny part is Kawhi will get them the assets to do what they want to do and they just want to toss out LMA for the sake of it.

[baseline bum]

So if they are good at drafting, wouldn’t you rather be a contender now by drafting a top flight player and adding that person plus free agents to this current playoff team that was 3 games shy of 50 wins with no help?

Do the Spurs have better odds drafting a franchise player at 18-20 or 1-4?

[MannyIsGod]

Guess I've been MIA from the board for too long this season because I'm genuinely surprised that people are still overrating the talent on the roster. Outside of Lamarcus and a 40yo Manu, there isn't a single guy on this roster I'd want on a team competing for a championship tbh.

Murray is what, 21? He's about to make an all defensive team and he's shown so much growth and you're writing him off? Kyle Anderson is a good role player for many roles, and you're writing him off?

[DPG21920]

Do the Spurs have better odds drafting a franchise player at 18-20 or 1-4?

If you trade Kawhi like we’ve discussed, then you would get that higher pick + have the 18th pick as well

[Mugen]

The funny part is Kawhi will get them the assets to do what they want to do and they just want to toss out LMA for the sake of it.

No, we're not tossing the LMA for the sake of it. We're getting some type of return for LMA while he still has value while making the team terrible enough to have a shot at a top lottery pick and land a DRob, Duncan, AD, LeBron, etc.

Again, this is all a moot point since we both know the FO would never do it. So let's go ahead and raise those "made playoffs during a year where no West team outside of HOU/GS is getting to the Finals" banners. Great season guys! :lol

[DPG21920]

It is a great job. For a roster you say isn’t worth keeping around, they sure were pretty damn good compared to most every other team in the league. This same team with Kawhi this year would be a legit threat to go to the WCF.

[Chinook]

It's because the Spurs have a front office that has a proven track record in making great picks.

And yet, you don't want to give them a chance to make a lotto pick while they still have a vet core around them...


I don't know why you think Buford is going to pick Stauskas and Jimmer but you must think so since you keep bringing up the Kings.

I don't know why you think he's immune to making bad picks just because he's been good at avoiding complete catastrophes almost exclusively low-firsts. Most of the guys who bust aren't obvious bad picks. And most of the guys drafted are neither booms nor busts. Look at 2016s top-10 and tell me which of the picks are busts and which are stars. I got Simmons as the only star and Bender and Chriss as the busts. The rest are completely inconsequential. They're decent players who will probably have three or four NBA contracts but who won't be the best player on anything but extreme bottom-feeding clubs.

Buford isn't going to always find the needle in the haystack. He may avoid the toxic waste, but that's not good enough to have a quick rebuild. Other teams are drafting too, and they get the better of the Spurs from time to time. Or even if he carries around a secret magnate with him, he might find himself in a draft like 2015 where the only guy drafted between 2 and 10 who is anything more than a replacement-level player is WCS, and even he is just a "goodish" player. Hell, even "pretty good" players like Turner and Booker aren't getting you out of the lotto in a decent amount of time.

[Mugen]

Murray is what, 21? He's about to make an all defensive team and he's shown so much growth and you're writing him off? Kyle Anderson is a good role player for many roles, and you're writing him off?

What do you think Murray's ceiling is tbh? He's a nice player but I legit doubt he ever gets above average starter level. The defense is nice, but at a position where it's least important. Kyle is a great 7th or 8th player in the rotation on a championship team. If you're team is absolutely stacked then sure bring him onboard. But I'm not resting easy for the next 5 years because Kyle F'n Anderson is locked up :lol

[baseline bum]

If you trade Kawhi like we’ve discussed, then you would get that higher pick + have the 18th pick as well

Are you more likely to find a franchise player picking once at 7-11, once at 18, and three times at 18-22 or once at 7-11, once at 18, and three times at 1-4?

[offset formation]

He only gets traded if SA doesn’t want him here. If that decision is made, they will get the best they can even if it’s not what they wanted.

I don’t think it’s the reverse; meaning they won’t keep him because they don’t like the offers. They will make the decision and take what they can.

Concur completely. If they decide to move him, it will be proactively done because they simply do not want him here.

I assume they will take the best offer among any out there. That said, I can potentially see them being motivated to NOT send him where he wants to go given his shenanigans this year. I can also sense them shipping him East just so you dont have to play him 3 or 4 times per year, once or twice back in the AT&T Center.

[Mugen]

It is a great job. For a roster you say isn’t worth keeping around, they sure were pretty damn good compared to most every other team in the league. This same team with Kawhi this year would be a legit threat to go to the WCF.

:lol Yeah because Kawhi is a top 3 player in the league when healthy. He's that damn good. You take him away, and you're looking at a roster that is several tiers below HOU/GS and was one game away from being with the Lakers/Kings of the league....

[DPG21920]

Are you more likely to find a franchise player picking once at 7-11, once at 18, and three times at 18-22 or once at 7-11, once at 18, and three times at 1-4?

Trading LMA doesn’t get you that opportunity.

[MannyIsGod]

What do you think Murray's ceiling is tbh? He's a nice player but I legit doubt he ever gets above average starter level. The defense is nice, but at a position where it's least important. Kyle is a great 7th or 8th player in the rotation on a championship team. If you're team is absolutely stacked then sure bring him onboard. But I'm not resting easy for the next 5 years because Kyle F'n Anderson is locked up :lol

I don't know what Murray's ceiling is, but I know all he needs is a jump shot and he's an above average point guard in this league without adding anything else. And he's fucking young. The idea that having a great defender at the 1 is not important is incredible. Not even sure what to say to that, honestly.

[DPG21920]

:lol Yeah because Kawhi is a top 3 player in the league when healthy. He's that damn good. You take him away, and you're looking at a roster that is several tiers below HOU/GS and was one game away from being with the Lakers/Kings of the league....

You are acting like the roster is trash. Trash is having Paul George, Russ, Melo & Adams...oh wait..

[Chinook]

:lol Yeah because Kawhi is a top 3 player in the league when healthy. He's that damn good. You take him away, and you're looking at a roster that is several tiers below HOU/GS and was one game away from being with the Lakers/Kings of the league....

SA pissed away almost every close game they encountered. They were closer to being with Portland than they were being out of the playoffs. It doesn't take a superstar to not lose like eight games in 11 when you're leading in the fourth-quarter or whatever it was. It just takes not relying on old or washed up guys to make big shots. You can fix that with good, targeted free-agent signings and trades.

[baseline bum]

Trading LMA doesn’t get you that opportunity.

How many wins do you see this year's team having if Aldridge was out for the season too?

[baseline bum]

SA pissed away almost every close game they encountered. They were closer to being with Portland than they were being out of the playoffs. It doesn't take a superstar to not lose like eight games in 11 when you're leading in the fourth-quarter or whatever it was. It just takes not relying on old or washed up guys to make big shots. You can fix that with good, targeted free-agent signings and trades.

Yes, which means it wasn't a fluke.

[DPG21920]

How many wins do you see this year's team having if Aldridge was out for the season too?

This year? With Kawhi unexpectedly missing the entire year and then LMA with no planning? 25 wins maybe.

But that wouldn’t be the case here. SA would be signing players, young guys would have more experience. There is no argument you can make to me that would justifying blowing up the team to get what would amount to MAYBE a late lottery pick for LMA.

[Mugen]

Yes, which means it wasn't a fluke.

Don't forget being absolute dogshit on the road. This team is fucking terrible and I guess we're supposed to be excited about it sans Kawhi because there are other trash teams in the West with also zero chance of winning a ring.

[DPG21920]

Yes, which means it wasn't a fluke.

But all their other wins were? They won the same/more games than most teams in the league.

[MannyIsGod]

Those of you who want to blow it up, whats the most you think you get from a LMA trade?

[Chinook]

Yes, which means it wasn't a fluke.

Not really. It means they underperformed their expected talent level. If you're legit bad, you don't even find yourself leading in the fourth so many times.

[MannyIsGod]

But all their other wins were? They won the same/more games than most teams in the league.

This is what I don't understand. People want to focus on how bad this team was, but a Kawhi trade gets you at least players who make you improve by 5-10 games easily with no other changes. How is the argument that this team is garbage without pointing out that the margin between this team and a top 4 team in the league is not very large.

[baseline bum]

And yet, you don't want to give them a chance to make a lotto pick while they still have a vet core around them...



I don't know why you think he's immune to making bad picks just because he's been good at avoiding complete catastrophes almost exclusively low-firsts. Most of the guys who bust aren't obvious bad picks. And most of the guys drafted are neither booms nor busts. Look at 2016s top-10 and tell me which of the picks are busts and which are stars. I got Simmons as the only star and Bender and Chriss as the busts. The rest are completely inconsequential. They're decent players who will probably have three or four NBA contracts but who won't be the best player on anything but extreme bottom-feeding clubs.

Buford isn't going to always find the needle in the haystack. He may avoid the toxic waste, but that's not good enough to have a quick rebuild. Other teams are drafting too, and they get the better of the Spurs from time to time. Or even if he carries around a secret magnate with him, he might find himself in a draft like 2015 where the only guy drafted between 2 and 10 who is anything more than a replacement-level player is WCS, and even he is just a "goodish" player. Hell, even "pretty good" players like Turner and Booker aren't getting you out of the lotto in a decent amount of time.

You're talking a single lotto pick, probably 7 or later. I'm talking multiple lotto picks. Of course Buford's not going to hit it out of the park on every pick, but I see it as the best way to get him a chance to do it once. The draft is the only way they're getting another Leonard, or a Davis, or a Simmons that could give them a foundation to build a contender around. If you're not going to blow the team up your best bet is probably just daring Kawhi to pull this act for another year and hoping he stops being a bitch or tells his uncle to go fuck himself next year.

[DPG21920]

Not really. It means they underperformed their expected talent level. If you're legit bad, you don't even find yourself leading in the fourth so many times.

Exactly. SA even on the road, led by DOUBLE DIGITS in over 60% of their games. You can’t suck and consistently do that. Let alone make the playoffs in the West. Sorry, doesnt happen.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

A player needs to either be entering (or have just completed) his eighth or ninth season. As The Atlantic points outs, players aiming to eventually land a supermax deal would sign a contract extension after their rookie deal. After this extension, eligible players could sign a supermax contract. For most of the eligible players, the supermax deal would be their third NBA contract.

Not super clear to me either.

https://heavy.com/sports/2017/07/nba-supermax-contract-deal-salary-how-much-designated-player/
So it doesn't HAVE to be the team that drafted you, as long as it was the team that you signed with for the first extension after the rookie contract was up.

So if you traded for the guy in his first 4 years or less, you can still extend him and then have the rights to his supermax 4-5 years later.

[MannyIsGod]

Not really. It means they underperformed their expected talent level. If you're legit bad, you don't even find yourself leading in the fourth so many times.

It also means they had a sub optimal approach. How many games did they lose because they were simply waiting for a savior to come back that was never going to come.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

How many wins do you see this year's team having if Aldridge was out for the season too?

35-40

[DPG21920]

You're talking a single lotto pick, probably 7 or later. I'm talking multiple lotto picks. Of course Buford's not going to hit it out of the park on every pick, but I see it as the best way to get him a chance to do it once. The draft is the only way they're getting another Leonard, or a Davis, or a Simmons that could give them a foundation to build a contender around. If you're not going to blow the team up your best bet is probably just daring Kawhi to pull this act for another year and hoping he stops being a bitch or tells his uncle to go fuck himself next year.

This makes no sense man, it really doesn’t. If you didn’t have a Kawhi (the player or trade asset) and you had no real base I can MAYBE see it. But you do. You have a playoff team that you can either add Kawhi too + free agents and really contend or a playoff team that you can trade Kawhi and be in the rare spot of being a playoff team with a top 10 pick (or maybe two) due to a trade.

[baseline bum]

Those of you who want to blow it up, whats the most you think you get from a LMA trade?

I'd hope for multiple future draft picks to stockpile like when Ainge fleeced Billy King for the corpses of Pierce and Garnett.

[DPG21920]

So it doesn't HAVE to be the team that drafted you, as long as it was the team that you signed with for the first extension after the rookie contract was up.

So if you traded for the guy in his first 4 years or less, you can still extend him and then have the rights to his supermax 4-5 years later.

I don’t believe what you said is true.

[r0drig0lac]

Guess I've been MIA from the board for too long this season because I'm genuinely surprised that people are still overrating the talent on the roster. Outside of Lamarcus and a 40yo Manu, there isn't a single guy on this roster I'd want on a team competing for a championship tbh.

it's useless, people only see what they want to see, this team has two players (Aldridge and Kawhi) and that's it

[objective]

If anyone thinks this team is close to the top without Kawhi they're just as out of their minds as the people who liked the Pau and Mills deals.

Unless they move Kawhi for Doncic or Ayton, they're going to tumble. Even getting one of those two would be a losing trade, but the best they could make. TJ Warren or Tobias Harris and picks in the teens are a cruel joke.

They barely got in the playoffs with being mostly healthy sans Kawhi and Rudy missing whatever he missed.

Just to bring back their big minutes free agents will be expensive. Are they supposed to spend another $98 on Anderson, Green, Bertans, Forbes and Parker? Or $148?

Pau will be older, worse, and I am sure more broken down and injured.

Mills will be older, worse, and fatter. Really fat. I'm thinking bigger than Felton.


Parker or Ginobili or both will be even older, worse, and less healthy.

Murray is at the crossroads of learning to shoot or being worth a second round pick like Elfrid Payton.

Joffrey will still be on the roster.

Aldridge had his best season, awesome. He's probably not topping that next year.

Even letting go of Green and Anderson, the most expensive of their possible free agents, won't get them big money under the cap. And even if it did, no free agent worth a damn is coming into this cauldron of confusion.

It's a mess. This team is primed for a lottery season without Kawhi or a big time prospect like Doncic who is overrated anyway.

[MannyIsGod]

I'd hope for multiple future draft picks to stockpile like when Ainge fleeced Billy King for the corpses of Pierce and Garnett.

Who's going to give you those picks? Multiple first round picks? Yeah, I don't think LMA is bringing back multiple firsts.

[DPG21920]

I for one am really looking forward to this off season. SA has a chance to keep Kawhi long-term, or pull off a franchise changing trade. They already have a solid first round pick and 2nd round pick.

They can and probably will try to make some other moves. We might have two other franchise legends done with SA. So much can go on.

[offset formation]

I for one am really looking forward to this off season. SA has a chance to keep Kawhi long-term, or pull off a franchise changing trade. They already have a solid first round pick and 2nd round pick. They can and probably will try to make some other moves. We might have two other franchise legends done with SA. So much can go on.Depressing and exciting at the same moment. I just hope the torch stays lit, and the bridge over troubled waters stays intact. If they move him, and get a pick from it that keeps the torch lit, I won't mind a couple down years.

[Mugen]

:lol I've never seen a fanbase be so excited to be the the Miami Heat from the last 5 years after LeBron left.

[baseline bum]

:lol I've never seen a fanbase be so excited to be the the Miami Heat from the last 5 years after LeBron left.

:rollin

[MannyIsGod]

:lol I've never seen such a fanbase be so excited to be the the Miami Heat from the last 5 years after LeBron left.

Dude you want to be the Bulls after Jordan left soooooooooo?

[UNT Eagles 2016]

:lol Yeah because Kawhi is a top 3 player in the league when healthy. He's that damn good. You take him away, and you're looking at a roster that is several tiers below HOU/GS and was one game away from being with the Lakers/Kings of the league....

Doesn't matter how "good" he is if he's a quivering pink vagina.

[objective]

:lol I've never seen a fanbase be so excited to be the the Miami Heat from the last 5 years after LeBron left.

Very true.

At least when Miami paid $107 million for James Johnson and Dion Waiters they younger and could handle more minutes.

But yeah, it gets them shat on by a million points by the higher seed in the playoffs.

[ace3g]

I've seen Ayton's name thrown around here and some of the hype he received during March Madness, couldn't comment on him though while on my hiatus. IMO he is too slow footed for today's NBA, wasn't impressed after watching some game tape of him.

[Chinook]

You're talking a single lotto pick, probably 7 or later. I'm talking multiple lotto picks.

I'm actually talking about giving him a single lotto pick to work with first and seeing what happens. You've yet to explain why that isn't a superior solution. Sure, they probably don't draft the next instant-star with the Brooklyn pick or whatever. But what if they do? Then they would have dumped LMA for nothing. Again, you can always blow it up. You can't always put it together. There's no an expiration date on your solution where we have to rush it along.

[Chinook]

It also means they had a sub optimal approach. How many games did they lose because they were simply waiting for a savior to come back that was never going to come.

That too. The team has been through the ringer emotionally this season. A fresh start with some new blood and not having to wait on what Kawhi does seems worth the experiment at least.

[MannyIsGod]

I've seen Ayton's name thrown around here and some of the hype he received during March Madness, couldn't comment on him though while on my hiatus. IMO he is too slow footed for today's NBA, wasn't impressed after watching some game tape of him.

Don't agree he's slow at all. I didn't watch a ton of his games, but I watched him when they played A&M and at no point did I think he was a slow big man. He's pretty fucking athletic man.

[ElNono]

No, he won't. PG didn't get to go to LA despite having a clean bill of health and explicitly saying he wanted to go there. People like to complain about Indy's return, but it was about as good as you can expect . Imagine if they'd've gotten Kyrie's return instead. Shit, Cousins straight-up threatened to leave the team that traded for him, and he went for a lightly protected lotto first, a rookie mid-lotto pick and a decent vet. 80 percent of the offers discussed here are in that same caliber. If the offers are low, it will be because of health, not because of where he's going to reup.

That said, I do think teams will suppress offers with the idea that Kawhi may not play a game there. Phoenix may not risk the top pick for him, though I do think Warren and 15 would happen even if Kawhi had a leg amputated. A team like the Clippers, who are likely to buy into the LA hype, might comparatively sell the farm for Leonard. Boston may want to nickel and dime PATFO, but fuck Boston. Ultimately, the biggest determinant in how well the Spurs make out in a Leonard trade will be RC's ability to evaluate a package. Oladipo probably gets a top-five pick in this draft. No one would have thought that a year ago. As mentioned IT and Crowder were hot garbage, and the Brooklyn pick is mediocre. Going for the next Oladipo-like turnaround and avoiding the IT-like pitfall will make or break the team.

That's what I said. The Spurs will not be getting as much in return if it's a one year rental, as opposed to a team that would get a thumbs up from Kawhi for an extension right after the trade.

OKC rented PG for a season, and Indy did good, but not great. Of course you can always ship his ass without his consent, but value is different if they're trading for a one season rental.

[davidbowie]

now that kawhi is pretty much out the door how much longer do u think Pop sticks around

[SAGirl]

I would not trade Kawhi for the record.

I understand the frustration everyone has had and I share it too (in terms of his isolation from the team, etc)... I assume he's affected by a chronic tendinopathy that will affect his trade value anyways and I hope... and that is just hope... that he can recover from it and that if he's healthy the relationship can be salvaged. If he can't bc he doesn't recover well enough, spurfan isn't getting enough for him anyway to make it worth it. He has a better ceiling than anyone we can get. I don't think he has asked for a trade IMO... I don't want to go too much into speculation bc that topic is in many threads. The only relevant point is that I would rather find out if he gets healthy and can play. Even if PATFO finds out they need to trade him, he has a lot more value healthy and in MVP shape. It would suck to lose him then, healthy and in MVP form, but then at least you can get a package that is better.... anyways, I still hope he stays. not dunca2k5 level of semenshielding... but I was pretty down on LMA last season and I don't think this is beyond repair, so long as he can be healthy.

Ok with that out of the way, if LMA had missed the 25 games they missed from Gay (on top of Kiwi's tendinopathy) they for sure are in the high lottery IMO. So a scenario where they end up in an involuntary tank is a possibility... just bc Kiwi may still be injured and LMA has knee issues and is getting up there in age... but I would take that risk bc the ceiling if they are both healthy (a possibility too, the optimistic view) is very high.

I would not stand pat with the rest of the roster another summer though. If next summer sucks and both players are injured then at least we will get a good lotto pick without having to trade anyone.

I am hoping this thing with Kiwi can be fixed. It's a risk to lose him for nothing but I would take that risk considering his current injury both depresses his value and also makes it likely that it caused all rifts in the first place.

[ElNono]

Chinook, I guess I can see how that could be misunderstood... I just wanted to point out that whoever thinks PATFO can just go ahead and get Lebron + 4 top-5 picks for Kawhi, don't understand the dynamics of this thing. Kawhi just saying he won't suit up for those guys can completely change whatever the Spurs get in return.

[Chinook]

That's what I said. The Spurs will not be getting as much in return if it's a one year rental, as opposed to a team that would get a thumbs up from Kawhi for an extension right after the trade.

OKC rented PG for a season, and Indy did good, but not great. Of course you can always ship his ass without his consent, but value is different if they're trading for a one season rental.

The rental part isn't the issue. Almost all of the deals we're talking about work just fine for rentals. Only a couple of people have argued the team is going to get like multiple top-flight assets or anything like that. The reason why Tatum-plus may not happen is not because Kawhi supposedly wants to go to LA; it's because no one knows if he's ever going to be healthy again. I think a number of teams are willing to risk him walking for a chance to put him with their best guys (like OKC did). No one wants a guy with a degenerative knee, though.


Chinook, I guess I can see how that could be misunderstood... I just wanted to point out that whoever thinks PATFO can just go ahead and get Lebron + 4 top-5 picks for Kawhi, don't understand the dynamics of this thing. Kawhi just saying he won't suit up for those guys can completely change whatever the Spurs get in return.

That's true. I think some people are expecting to get one of the biggest packages in NBA history for him. But I also think most here have already adjusted their expectations down to acceptable levels. This past year showed us the real market for stars that end up moving.

[ElNono]

The rental part isn't the issue. Almost all of the deals we're talking about work just fine for rentals. Only a couple of people have argued the team is going to get like multiple top-flight assets or anything like that. The reason why Tatum-plus may not happen is not because Kawhi supposedly wants to go to LA; it's because no one knows if he's ever going to be healthy again. I think a number of teams are willing to risk him walking for a chance to put him with their best guys (like OKC did). No one wants a guy with a degenerative knee, though.

Agreed on the health issue. Spurs or anybody else will look for a clean bill of health, or at least a diagnosis from an independent doctor before doing anything. That much is clear, IMO.

[ElNono]

Also, for people talking about the future, not only LMA is aging, but our 3rd best player this season and HoF, probably will retire this summer or the next, which will drop the whole system/corporate knowledge some more.

I was hoping we would see some of the youngsters on this team pick up the slack, but it just hasn't happened. And that's very disheartening... I'm giving Murray a pass because he's a rookie and at least he looks like he wants it, but he's still too green too.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol I've never seen a fanbase be so excited to be the the Miami Heat from the last 5 years after LeBron left.

:lol including Riley being senile, just like Pop..

[Ice009]

Not even then. Part of the rule is you have to play with the team that drafted you in order to be eligible

What was the talk about Chris Paul still being able to get the Supermax when he was traded? I take it that was wrong? I remember seeing it mentioned somewhere, or was that just for a regular max contract? How about guys like Harden that weren't drafted by their current team? Does the team you were on when the Supermax was created apply, or do you still go back to whatever team you were drafted by before the Supermax was in existence?

[DPG21920]

What was the talk about Chris Paul still being able to get the Supermax when he was traded? I take it that was wrong? I remember seeing it mentioned somewhere, or was that just for a regular max contract? How about guys like Harden that weren't drafted by their current team? Does the team you were on when the Supermax was created apply, or do you still go back to whatever team you were drafted by before the Supermax was in existence?

So Harden was different; I should have been more clear. If you were traded in the first four years (like Harden) and meet all the other qualifications, then yes you can sign as Harden did.

Kawhi (and CP3) however were not traded in their first four years. So they would only be eligible if they signed the SuperMax (assuming they met the other qualifications) with their respective teams.

[objective]

:lol including Riley being senile, just like Pop..

It fits to a tee. Damn.

[spurs10]

The reason we only found out today that Kawhi is out for the postseason is because he was trying to come back and play right up to the last minute. Today multiple sources from Shams to Jabari made it clear Kawhi’s rehab was in concert with the Spurs and their medical staff. Pop said “He’s in New York rehabbing trying to get healthy.” Another part of Pop’s interview, which was really funny, got spun into some more utter bullshit about how angry Pop was. Bullshit.

I expect Kawhi to sign the supermax this summer and remain on the Spurs for his entire career. If not, then it will be an interesting summer finding out who we will get in his place. However he can’t save us tomorrow and we have a game to play.
:flag:

[Ice009]

So Harden was different; I should have been more clear. If you were traded in the first four years (like Harden) and meet all the other qualifications, then yes you can sign as Harden did.

Kawhi (and CP3) however were not traded in their first four years. So they would only be eligible if they signed the SuperMax (assuming they met the other qualifications) with their respective teams.

Thanks for the explanation. Can any player that is traded from now on within the first 4 years of their career still get the Supermax? And do those qualifications have to be met with their new team or can it carry over from their old team?

Also, what did CP3 gain being traded to the Rockets? Just his regular Bird rights?

[szkorhetz]

George>>Leonard

[duncan2k5]

My friend. The injury aside, which every player has publicly supported Kawhi in, is not the issue. Being around and engaged is the issue (along with communication from the face of the franchise).

Don’t you see that? Everyone wants him to stay and be healthy and get the money he’s earned. They also want him to be a better leader.

But the Spurs want him to stay in NY... why are fans and media ignoring that? Smh

[duncan2k5]

Call me crazy, but I actually think they might trade Aldridge.

They should

[duncan2k5]

Sometimes, ya. That’s not to say SA doesn’t have legit issues. It’s clear they do. I”m saying you can’t just look at something only on the negative and conveniently forget about the bad luck too.

They played well in many of the road losses and then just melted down. Is what it is, but let’s not act like they just only won games and made the playoffs just because of good luck!!

Not sure if u watch other teams... But that's what bad teams do, bro...

[duncan2k5]

So if Buford strikes gold on a single pick that plays at a star level from day 1 and the Spurs sign a hot shot free agent and White is good? Probably still not better than next year's Celtics or Sixers.

The sad truth is, pop would probably send the pick to the GL for a year

[emanueldavidginobili]

Am I the only one that thinks Kawhi is going to stay on the Spurs? Yeah this season has been crazy and a lot of unanswered questions but do you expect anything less than the Spurs and the Mute himself Kawhi. IMO there is no way in hell Kawhi and his team is trying to dip and not get the super max done, I just cant see it. it is odd that Pop is making these comments about go ask his people and all that but maybe the Spurs training team did screw up who knows, I just dont see Kawhi trying to go else where and turning down the biggest pay day of his life.

[SAGirl]

Am I the only one that thinks Kawhi is going to stay on the Spurs? Yeah this season has been crazy and a lot of unanswered questions but do you expect anything less than the Spurs and the Mute himself Kawhi. IMO there is no way in hell Kawhi and his team is trying to dip and not get the super max done, I just cant see it. it is odd that Pop is making these comments about go ask his people and all that but maybe the Spurs training team did screw up who knows, I just dont see Kawhi trying to go else where and turning down the biggest pay day of his life.
I think he stays. Combination of Spurs really wanting him to, GMs being a pain trying to swindle the Spurs, Kawhi being injured putting them in a rough spot to get value, and the relationship being salvageable if he’s healthy. Lamarcus wanted to get traded and didn’t when the Spurs couldn’t get who they wanted for him. This is a similar situation. If someone throws the kitchen sink at the Spurs for Kawhi, then yeah he may be traded. But is any GM going to do that for a guy who missed a season with a chronic injury and has autism, an overbearing uncle and his own medical team? If he can’t play, no.

[Big Empty]

Man, still crazy to believe how badly this situation has unfolded since last season.

Can't believe the Spurs are a few months away from trading away Kawhi (i'd put it at near 95% at this point tbh).

Really hope they completely blow it up after, trade Lamarcus and hopefully attach the Fatty/Pau contracts. Get as many first rounders as possible this draft and the next and figure out who's going to take over for Pop.

[weeks]

Luckily for all the fans that will be happy just to keep a meaningless playoff streak alive only to get skullfucked by HOU/GS the next 3 years, PATFO will never ever blow it up.

We'll see a Kawhi trade for 50 cents on the dollar, give Porky a 2 year thank you contract, double down on the Patty/Pau deals, probably another 10mil/year deal to Danny, overpay Fathead...at least Manu won't have to sit through another season of this mediocrity.....

We'll convince ourselves that Dejounte/White is a star backcourt in the making, overhype whatever 18th pick we end up with....only to be curbstomped again by a real team. Maybe they overachieve tho and make a 2nd round appearance so Pop can get outcoached by Alvin Gentry or Billy Donovan :lol

orbital nuke bombardment

[Dex]

If Kawhi really does end up leaving, he really fucked the Spurs with this whole fiasco.

Pretty much wasted this entire season because the entire team was built around him.

If they end up trading him this summer, they are going to get pennies on the dollar because absolutely nobody knows how healthy he really is, and the only sample size we have since last year are those 9 games where he clearly looked injured.

Even a trade mid-next-season won't net a full return because teams know the Spurs are going to be desperate to unload him before he walks for nothing.

I'm still hanging on to that thread of hope that Kawhi really is just trying to get healthy, all of this animosity is just sensationalized media, and he signs his extension and comes back healthy next year. Any other scenario would pretty much mean Kawhi did the Spurs dirty.

[Vito Corleone]

Two best possible scenario for this situation are as follows.

Trade Kawhi for draft picks and young up and coming talent.

Sign him to super max and trade him for equal monetary value in contracts and draft picks. He will gut the next team he is with just to take that contract on The next team will have to give up between 40 and 50 million in contracts to get Kawhi, hard to do that without give up some quality.

My favorite option is to do the super-max and get a ton of draft picks and expiring contracts. I trust the Spurs leadership to find excellent players in the draft to rebuild.

The best part will be watching Kawhi flounder in a talent less team and the media crucify him for leaving a good thing for brighter lights.

[exstatic]

Question: there is nothing in stone that the designated player level offer has to be made this summer as opposed to in the summer of 2019? If the spurs don’t move Leonard now, they still have that massive trump card to play in the summer of 2019, no?

If he wants out, and all indications are that he does, he's already ready to leave that on the table. I doubt another year changes his mind, and then he walks for nothing.

[CGD]

If he wants out, and all indications are that he does, he's already ready to leave that on the table. I doubt another year changes his mind, and then he walks for nothing.

As we saw, a lot can happen in a year. On the one hand you have exhibit A, Kawhi. On the other, though, is LMA who this time last year people were starting to crucify. A year later he really showed us something after his heart to heart with Pop. You never know with Leonard, and it would good to be able to have that DPO next summer to fend of other suiters if things get somewhat reconciled

[DPG21920]

Two best possible scenario for this situation are as follows.

Trade Kawhi for draft picks and young up and coming talent.

Sign him to super max and trade him for equal monetary value in contracts and draft picks. He will gut the next team he is with just to take that contract on The next team will have to give up between 40 and 50 million in contracts to get Kawhi, hard to do that without give up some quality.

My favorite option is to do the super-max and get a ton of draft picks and expiring contracts. I trust the Spurs leadership to find excellent players in the draft to rebuild.

The best part will be watching Kawhi flounder in a talent less team and the media crucify him for leaving a good thing for brighter lights.

Spurs can’t trade Kawhi for one year from when he signs the SuperMax FYI>

[DPG21920]

As we saw, a lot can happen in a year. On the one hand you have exhibit A, Kawhi. On the other, though, is LMA who this time last year people were starting to crucify. A year later he really showed us something after his heart to heart with Pop. You never know with Leonard, and it would good to be able to have that DPO next summer to fend of other suiters if things get somewhat reconciled

Technically; yes. Sa can offer that again to Kawhi the following Summer*

*Kawhi would have to re-qualify which would be a big risk for him assuming his health.

So you have to ask yourself, why would Kawhi be ok with waiting? You could see why SA would want that since Kawhi hasn’t played all year, but Kawhi would not want to take the risk.

It’s going to come down to is he healthy and if SA is willing to offer him that SuperMax in light of him not only sitting out with his medical teams advice but with the “other” stuff going on.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

If Kawhi wants to leave, you basically blow it up, get rid of anything that was here as a supporting cast member and start over.



Again, I'll say "if" Kawhi wants to leave, because I want him to stay loyal, just based on my image of his character. But if this is all a ploy to get traded, I hope he realizes he's single-handedly sinking the ship on one of the greatest franchises in sports. Not only did he ruin this season, but he's diminished his trade value so the Spurs will be taking significant steps back in terms of talent for the foreseeable future.

Spurs will be going from a guaranteed top 3 seed for the next several seasons to a potential lottery team. It will be a true test of the Spurs' front office to pull a rabbit out of their hats in this most extreme of situations.


But, yeah, Spurs go from perennial power to rebuilding mode in one fell swoop. If anyone wanted to know what things would have been like in San Antonio had Tim Duncan bolted for Orlando back in the day, we're about to find out.

[DPG21920]

If Kawhi wants to leave, you basically blow it up, get rid of anything that was here as a supporting cast member and start over.



Again, I'll say "if" Kawhi wants to leave, I hope he realizes he's single-handedly sinking the ship on one of the greatest franchises in sports. Not only did he ruin this season, but he's diminished his trade value so the Spurs will be taking significant steps back in terms of talent for the foreseeable future.

Spurs will be going from a guaranteed top 3 seed for the next several seasons to a potential lottery team. It will be a true test of the Spurs' front office to pull a rabbit out of their hats in this most extreme of situations.


But, yeah, Spurs go from perennial power to rebuilding mode in one fell swoop. If anyone wanted to know what things would have been like in San Antonio had Tim Duncan bolted for Orlando back in the day, we're about to find out.

DUDE! Spurs without Kawhi this year, and with TP/Manu being really old, SA was TWO GAMES from being that 3rd seed you speak of.

Why would you blow that team up, even without Kawhi? You don’t think that with free agency, trades and the draft the team could get players to replace Kawhi that would have netted them 2+ more wins????

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

DUDE! Spurs without Kawhi this year, and with TP/Manu being really old, SA was TWO GAMES from being that 3rd seed you speak of.

Why would you blow that team up, even without Kawhi? You don’t think that with free agency, trades and the draft the team could get players to replace Kawhi that would have netted them 2+ more wins????

I think my post was probably more based on my emotion about the Kawhi situation. It's frustrating to think about what might have been, this year and beyond, having Kawhi on the roster. That post was my equivalent of throwing the computer against the wall. I'll come down off the ledge..............

You're right, realistically the Spurs can stay competitive (just perhaps not elite) if they do so with some careful planning. Which they historically have done very well, save for the Mills and Gasol contracts this year.




I just hate seeing my team get negatively affected by one of its own...especially when that guy has been one of my favorite Spurs players ever. The Spurs have overcome the hurdles that straddle almost every small market team, building a dynasty in a market that most thought couldn't sustain that sort of success.

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that Kawhi stays a Spur.

[DPG21920]

For sure - it royally sucks on multiple levels. It would be one thing if it were just a bad luck injury missed opportunity. But now the face of your franchise comes with a bunch of stinking baggage too? That’s a lot to deal with as a team and fans and it came out of no where.

I’m hopeful kawhi will be a Spur. It makes too much sense for them to not work it out. But Kawhi has some mending to do and maybe less so if Manu/TP are gone. But there will always be doubt now.

The best analogy I can think of with the Spurs/Kawhi situation is when a spouse cheats. Everyone reacts differently to that; but the act is the same.

Sometimes it’s immediate divorce. Sometimes people go to therapy and try and work it out.

Kawhi has “cheated” - the key will be how they react to this and if they are willing to work it out. In this case, there are so many more reasons on the surface to work it out than not. But even those that do work it out, there will always be that seed planted in the back of your mind. It’s impossible to fully forget even if you forgive. Kawhi has some making up to do and trust to be won back with the team, management and the fans.

We will see though.

[spurs10]

A lot of good things being said here regarding where Kawhi’s health will be. He seems to be taking his rehab seriously, so I’m hoping and even expecting him to be good to go. In which case I think he’ll be offered the supermax, as I don’t have any reason not to take Pop and Kawhi himself at anything other than face value. They have both expressed they were in concert regarding the process of getting well.

[ElNono]

Seems obvious, but supermax contract offer, provided he passes a physical, should include a clause that states Spurs' doctors decisions are final, tbh... subject to unsalaried suspension...

[DPG21920]

Seems obvious, but supermax contract offer, provided he passes a physical, should include a clause that states Spurs' doctors decisions are final, tbh... subject to unsalaried suspension...

Im 99% certain that is not allowed. You can put in a bunch of injury protections but I do not think you can contractually mandate the ability to pursue 2nd opinions.

[exstatic]

What do you think Murray's ceiling is tbh? He's a nice player but I legit doubt he ever gets above average starter level. The defense is nice, but at a position where it's least important. Kyle is a great 7th or 8th player in the rotation on a championship team. If you're team is absolutely stacked then sure bring him onboard. But I'm not resting easy for the next 5 years because Kyle F'n Anderson is locked up :lol

You think defense at PG is inconsequential in the Age of the Point Guard? He's also an elite rebounder at the position, with RW as his only competitor. Westbrook pulls down 9.9/36, and DeJounte grabs 9.5/36, and that's without his Spurs teammates letting balls hit the floor so he can skitter in and grab a couple of cheapies per game.

[exstatic]

I'd hope for multiple future draft picks to stockpile like when Ainge fleeced Billy King for the corpses of Pierce and Garnett.

Billy King is not walking through that door. Seriously, I don't think there is anyone with that level of stupid/naive running an NBA FO these days.

[exstatic]

now that kawhi is pretty much out the door how much longer do u think Pop sticks around

Two years. He'll leave after the 2019/2020 season.

[exstatic]

I would not trade Kawhi for the record.

I understand the frustration everyone has had and I share it too (in terms of his isolation from the team, etc)... I assume he's affected by a chronic tendinopathy that will affect his trade value anyways and I hope... and that is just hope... that he can recover from it and that if he's healthy the relationship can be salvaged. If he can't bc he doesn't recover well enough, spurfan isn't getting enough for him anyway to make it worth it. He has a better ceiling than anyone we can get. I don't think he has asked for a trade IMO... I don't want to go too much into speculation bc that topic is in many threads. The only relevant point is that I would rather find out if he gets healthy and can play. Even if PATFO finds out they need to trade him, he has a lot more value healthy and in MVP shape. It would suck to lose him then, healthy and in MVP form, but then at least you can get a package that is better.... anyways, I still hope he stays. not dunca2k5 level of semenshielding... but I was pretty down on LMA last season and I don't think this is beyond repair, so long as he can be healthy.

Ok with that out of the way, if LMA had missed the 25 games they missed from Gay (on top of Kiwi's tendinopathy) they for sure are in the high lottery IMO. So a scenario where they end up in an involuntary tank is a possibility... just bc Kiwi may still be injured and LMA has knee issues and is getting up there in age... but I would take that risk bc the ceiling if they are both healthy (a possibility too, the optimistic view) is very high.

I would not stand pat with the rest of the roster another summer though. If next summer sucks and both players are injured then at least we will get a good lotto pick without having to trade anyone.

I am hoping this thing with Kiwi can be fixed. It's a risk to lose him for nothing but I would take that risk considering his current injury both depresses his value and also makes it likely that it caused all rifts in the first place.

You're completely and utterly naive. The Spurs probably have THE most conservative injury return program in the league, and they said he's ready to go MONTHS ago. He wants out. You trade him. You do NOT let this drama drag into next season. You do NOT let him walk for nothing.

[exstatic]

Chinook, I guess I can see how that could be misunderstood... I just wanted to point out that whoever thinks PATFO can just go ahead and get Lebron + 4 top-5 picks for Kawhi, don't understand the dynamics of this thing. Kawhi just saying he won't suit up for those guys can completely change whatever the Spurs get in return.

He can say whatever he wants, but at the end of the day, he needs to be a good little rental player, or his value in 2019 is for shit. He needs to re-establish as an All NBA player, and he can't do that faking an injury for the SECOND year in a row.

[exstatic]

As we saw, a lot can happen in a year. On the one hand you have exhibit A, Kawhi. On the other, though, is LMA who this time last year people were starting to crucify. A year later he really showed us something after his heart to heart with Pop. You never know with Leonard, and it would good to be able to have that DPO next summer to fend of other suiters if things get somewhat reconciled

LMA isn't a dysfunctional person like Kawhi is. He never faked an injury, and fled the team, TWICE. He had some issues of where on the court, and when in the shot clock, he was getting his touches. That was pretty much it.

[RD2191]

LMA isn't a dysfunctional person like Kawhi is. He never faked an injury, and fled the team, TWICE. He had some issues of where on the court, and when in the shot clock, he was getting his touches. That was pretty much it.

Yeah, lma only requested a trade. :lol

[exstatic]

Yeah, lma only requested a trade. :lol

Because of those two issues I mentioned. If the Kawhi situation is a 10 on the dbag/diva scale, LMAs was like a 2 or 3. Not even close to the same.

Oh, and at least he had the fucking BALLS TO ACTUALLY REQUEST A TRADE, rather than all of this passive-aggressive girlie shit the "Group" is putting down.

[duncan2k5]

Because of those two issues I mentioned. If the Kawhi situation is a 10 on the dbag/diva scale, LMAs was like a 2 or 3. Not even close to the same.

Oh, and at least he had the fucking BALLS TO ACTUALLY REQUEST A TRADE, rather than all of this passive-aggressive girlie shit the "Group" is putting down.

Dude... LA sat quiet and pissed off the whole season... Choked in the playoffs, and had the heart to demand a trade without reason... They only had the sit down after they realized his value is worth shit and no one wanted him