SF, SF, SF, Small Forwards, Small Forwards

[ace3g]

Should I go on. I've been saying it since the Kawhi went down with injury in the WCF; Spurs need 2-3 more small forwards on our roster. Even when Kawhi is healthy we didn't have true depth at that spot.

Spurs need to draft a SF.

Sign SFs in Free Agency.

Just the way of the league now.

[HarlemHeat37]

They need a PG and a SG, too, though:lol

[ace3g]

Early look to FA 2018 for @spurs (https://twitter.com/spurs/) (only for SG/SF spots)

1. Belinelli
2. Will Barton
3. Wilson Chandler
4. Casspi
5. Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
6. Mario Hezonja
7. Garrett Temple
8. Rodney Hood

[dbestpro]

They need a PG and a SG, too, though:lol

Don't they have like 5-6 PGs?

[DAF86]

They need a PG and a SG, too, though:lol

Just get a SF that can play the PG, tbh.

[DAF86]

BTW, Chinook disagrees with OP, for some odd reason.

[HarlemHeat37]

Early look to FA 2018 for @spurs (https://twitter.com/spurs/) (only for SG/SF spots)

1. Belinelli
2. Will Barton
3. Wilson Chandler
4. Casspi
5. Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
6. Mario Hezonja
7. Garrett Temple
8. Rodney Hood

None of those guys are starting-caliber, though(maybe Barton but his style is better suited for 6th man)..hopefully White will be decent enough start at SG..

[ace3g]

I'm just tired of these combo guards.

[gambit1990]

Early look to FA 2018 for @spurs (https://twitter.com/spurs/) (only for SG/SF spots)

1. Belinelli
2. Will Barton
3. Wilson Chandler
4. Casspi
5. Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
6. Mario Hezonja
7. Garrett Temple
8. Rodney Hood
i'll take barton and mbah a moute over beli. chandler too.

[ace3g]

Looking for depth, not starters.

[gambit1990]

They need a PG and a SG, too, though:lol
:lol

[DAF86]

My dream team would have 4 guys of around 6'6'' to 6'9 and one Athletic 7 footer that just goes around blocking shots and setting screens.

[ace3g]

Combo guards just don't have the ability to create space over the modern rosters.

[Play Boban]

We were set at SF before Kawhi pussied. Kawhi as the starter and Gay as the backup is top notch tbh.

[Atl Spur]

Our players weak mentally........ Draymond clearly knock the crap out of Bertans and then called him a bitch!! Wow

[ace3g]

Still need more depth than Kawhi/Gay. When they aren't on the court that is when you have to use the Forbes/Patty, TP/Patty, etc lineups.

[Chinook]

BTW, Chinook disagrees with OP, for some odd reason.

I bet you're queuing up a bump for you "Aldridge-ball" thread right now

[DAF86]

I bet you're queuing up a bump for you "Aldridge-ball" thread right now

Yeah, no. Go check the last post I made on that thread.

[NASpurs]

They need a PG and a SG, too, though:lol

What if you could draft a 6'3" combo guard...

[Atl Spur]

Wow

[r0drig0lac]

BTW, Chinook disagrees with OP, for some odd reason.

it's normal

[phxspurfan]

Don't they have like 5-6 midget SGs?

FIFY

[UZER]

Manu gonna be on the roster until he's 50. And pop will still be playing him because he can score 9 points in 17 minutes once every 6 games. :cry

[r0drig0lac]

tyreke evans, wilson chandler and mario hezonja would be a good addition to the depth

[phxspurfan]

What if you could draft a 6'3" combo guard...

In no universe is Forbes 6'3"

[r0drig0lac]

Our players weak mentally........ Draymond clearly knock the crap out of Bertans and then called him a bitch!! Wow

this is about pop

[Atl Spur]

Can someone please Kyle to compete vs walking around with that fake ass intensity look?

[HarlemHeat37]

Our players weak mentally........ Draymond clearly knock the crap out of Bertans and then called him a bitch!! Wow

Pop benched Bertans for like 3 weeks last time he defended himself..

[UZER]

Our players weak mentally........ Draymond clearly knock the crap out of Bertans and then called him a bitch!! Wow

Ask Bertans what happened the last time he stood up for a teammate.

[DAF86]

Manu gonna be on the roster until he's 50. And pop will still be playing him because he can score 9 points in 17 minutes once every 6 games. :cry

He has scored 9+ in two consecutive playoffs games so far, tbh.

BTW, how are the young guys you love so much (Murray, Forbes, Anderson) doing?

Shitting on Manu when he's the third best Spurs player right now. :lol

[Atl Spur]

Forbes is scared, Murray can’t shoot and plays out of control. Danny needs to be a leader as well as Kyle! Tony is done.....let White have his minutes!

[TheGreatYacht]

I disagree.

SG has been the worst position on the team for about 3 years now..... despite there being 10 of them on the roster

[UZER]

He has scored 9+ in two consecutive playoffs games so far, tbh.

BTW, how are the young guys you love so much (Murray, Forbes, Anderson) doing?

Shitting on Manu when he's the third best Spurs player right now. :lol

I'm not shitting on Manu. I'm saying he shouldn't' be on the roster anymore.

[DAF86]

I'm not shitting on Manu. I'm saying he shouldn't' be on the roster anymore.

Sure, if you are on the "The Spurs should have tanked wagon", because the Spurs wouldn't be in the playoffs if Manu weren't on the roster.

[Mugen]

Spurs have holes at pretty much every position minus small ball center (LMA)....

I said it another thread that minus LMA, 40 yo Manu....I wouldn't want anybody else on my roster if i'm competing for a championship. Rudy's been nice I guess but that's about it.

The roster is terrible, not sure how so many people still don't see that :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

There's no point in projecting until we know what happens with Kawhi, though, obviously..

[HarlemHeat37]

Spurs have holes at pretty much every position minus small ball center (LMA)....

I said it another thread that minus LMA, 40 yo Manu....I wouldn't want anybody else on my roster if i'm competing for a championship. Rudy's been nice I guess but that's about it.

The roster is terrible, not sure how so many people still don't see that :lol

I wouldn't go that far..most of the players starting could be good bench players that a team doesn't rely on, but they shouldn't be starting and/or playing more than 20MPG..

The Rockets current roster is actually a good example of just adding flawed role players around stars and relying on depth..

[Atl Spur]

Rudy at the 4 with Kawhi would be a Lethal team! Let White run the point....

[UZER]

What happened?

I said to ask Bertans.

[Ditty]

We are getting Tatum and Brown this summer for Kawhi's ass. We will be stacked next year with young talent.

[Atl Spur]

We are getting Tatum and Brown this summer for Kawhi's ass. We will be stacked next year with young talent.

No thanks

[DAF86]

No thanks

The fuck are you smoking? That's about the best we can do.

[Atl Spur]

Our players need Manu’s passion; he has more than any player on our current team@ 40......sad!

[Atl Spur]

The fuck are you smoking? That's about the best we can do.

Let it play out before you go giving up a top 4 player in the world!

[DAF86]

Our players need Manu’s passion; he has more than any player on our current team@ 40......sad!

It's not about passion (only), it's about skill and inteligence to play the game. If we had a 20 year old with half the skill, IQ and all around game of Manu we would be fine.

We might have it with White, but Pop won't let us know.

[DAF86]

Let it play out before you go giving up a top 4 player in the world!

And risk not getting anything? You offer Kawhi the supermax, if he doesn't sign trade him on the spot.

[testies]

Manu shat the bed too. Honeslty the guy should be playing in the paralympics but our front office is so awful that he looks good in this shit roster

[Mugen]

I wouldn't go that far..most of the players starting could be good bench players that a team doesn't rely on, but they shouldn't be starting and/or playing more than 20MPG..

The Rockets current roster is actually a good example of just adding flawed role players around stars and relying on depth..

I mean if Pau and Patty were on reasonable contracts, sure. But we're overpaying a shitton for Danny, Patty, and Pau. I wouldn't want any of those guys with those contracts if I'm building a championship roster tbh

[duncan2k5]

My dream team would have 4 guys of around 6'6'' to 6'9 and one Athletic 7 footer that just goes around blocking shots and setting screens.

This

[Ditty]

We are getting Lebron also this summer tbh

[HarlemHeat37]

I mean if Pau and Patty were on reasonable contracts, sure. But we're overpaying a shitton for Danny, Patty, and Pau. I wouldn't want any of those guys with those contracts if I'm building a championship roster tbh

If you're including contracts, then ya, I agree..Green should be getting PJ Tucker money and Mills should be making half of what he currently makes..I wouldn't want Pau, regardless, I just dislike everything about him:lol

[Arcadian]

They need people who can play positionless basketball. At one point, GS had 5 guys on the floor who were all about 6'6-6'10 and all could handle and shoot the ball.

[Chinook]

Yeah, no. Go check the last post I made on that thread.

Nope. I'm not bumping it for you.

[Mugen]

They need people who can play positionless basketball. At one point, GS had 5 guys on the floor who were all about 6'6-6'10 and all could handle and shoot the ball.

We have 3-4 guys on the roster that can't play a single position in the NBA, does that count?

[DAF86]

Nope. I'm not bumping it for you.

Who said anything about bumping it? :lol

Do whatever you want, I don't even know why you brought it up, tbh. :lol

[UZER]

Sure, if you are on the "The Spurs should have tanked wagon", because the Spurs wouldn't be in the playoffs if Manu weren't on the roster.

Shhh...It's time man. It's time.

[jbspurs]

They need a PG and a SG, too, though:lol

And a center!

[Chinook]

Who said anything about bumping it? :lol

Do whatever you want, I don't even know why you brought it up, tbh. :lol

Yeah I'm the one bringing up stuff out of nowhere...

[ace3g]

They need people who can play positionless basketball. At one point, GS had 5 guys on the floor who were all about 6'6-6'10 and all could handle and shoot the ball.

[DAF86]

Shhh...It's time man. It's time.

How is time when Manu could easily go to any contender and still be a rotation guy? Unfortunately, he has to be a top 3 player for the Spurs. :lol

[UZER]

How is time when Manu could easily go to any contender and still be a rotation guy? Unfortunately, he has to be a top 3 player for the Spurs. :lol

Dude. Let it go. It's time.

[DAF86]

Yeah I'm the one bringing up stuff out of nowhere...

I brought your idea that we are fine in terms of wings to a thread that talks about wings. How is that bringing stuff out of nowhere? :lol

[DAF86]

Dude. Let it go. It's time.

Your lack of argumentation is being fully noted son. :lol

[Arcadian]

We have 3-4 guys on the roster that can't play a single position in the NBA, does that count?

:lol

[UZER]

Your lack of argumentation is being fully noted son. :lol

He's not your dad. You don't owe him anything. It's just time.

[HarlemHeat37]

They don't need to go all the way to positionless basketball IMO..

There's a MASSIVE middle ground between the current Spurs' 1996 style of play and the progressive teams of the NBA..they can begin by simply acquiring a guard with penetration and scoring skills:lol they have so much room for growth..

This roster and it's style is so bad that people actually get excited about a trash player like Rudy Gay occasionally playing well:lol

[DAF86]

He's not your dad. You don't owe him anything. It's just time.

No, he's not. He's only the third best player of my favourite NBA team, and I like my NBA team to suck as less as possible, so I would rather keep him, tbh. Hopefully on a more suitable role like being the 7th or 8th best player.

[Chinook]

I brought your idea that we are fine in terms of wings to a thread that talks about wings. How is that bringing stuff out of nowhere? :lol

Because it shows the depth of your butt-hurt to bring up a past conversation with a guy who wasn't even in the thread. Like if I started this thread, it would make sense to "call me out" for changing my mind. As it was, it was you just choosing to rub salt in what you think is a wound.

You weren't wrong, though: I do disagree with the OP. I didn't physically see this game (just radio for bits and Gamecast for the rest), so I can't say if there was anything specifically about this game to trigger the thread. In general though:

a) The Spurs' depth at small-forward is great assuming a healthy Kawhi. Their weakness comes at guard right now, really just any kind of guard. That will require drastic changes and real dollars to fix. Kawhi being healthy would help, but you still have a declining Green, a limited Mills, a green and relatively unskilled Murray an unknown White, a bad Forbes and an old Manu and Tony there. Not good. White's the only one I absolutely want to see back next year.

b) The Spurs' lack of bigs outside of LMA and guards in general is getting confused with the idea that focusing on bigs and guards is inferior to a wing-centric approach. Pop seems to want to go for specialists over generalists, and that SHOULD actually work out well considering the way the market has shfited away from specialists and how many specialist skills are falling by the wayside. However, the only legit specialist he has on the entire freaking roster is LMA. He has no other bigs who can score reliably in the post, no guards who can get into the paint, no consistent spot-up guys and maybe one real defensive specialist (who's getting to be more icy than hot on that end too).

The plan itself is simple, straight-forward and doesn't have many weaknesses. He wants a ball-control offense with guys (specialists) who can score one-on-one on mismatches (otherwise known as the generalists everyone loves), and make the right play out of doubles to get some good shots. On D, he wants an aggressive switching scheme to keep guys from getting a lot of good looks from three. You get the right guys to run that system, and they should outscore generalist teams more often than not. These just aren't the right guys.

For a Kawhi-less season, the only path to making noise this roster had was if guys like Gay, Green, Tony and Manu had great seasons. Didn't happen. Probably shouldn't have expected it to.

[Chinook]

They don't need to go all the way to positionless basketball IMO..

There's a MASSIVE middle ground between the current Spurs' 1996 style of play and the progressive teams of the NBA..they can begin by simply acquiring a guard with penetration and scoring skills:lol they have so much room for growth..

This roster and it's style is so bad that people actually get excited about a trash player like Rudy Gay occasionally playing well:lol

I have to think Pop believed Tony would be better than he has been. It wasn't a very well-founded belief, but he built the roster thinking that in a smaller role, Tony could still do prime-Tony things. I'll be interested in seeing how Pop plays this. He's already benched Parker and reduced his role pretty far down. While I do think he could trade Murray and/or Mills for an impact guard this summer, I'm not sure he's going to be able to keep making room for Tony, especially if Green and Manu depart.

[Hoops Czar]

Chinook what is your assesment on Kyle Anderson's Ghastly postseason performance so far? The little nig is flying under the radar with all the Green, Forbes and Paddy talk. Surely, he deserves a little criticism too.

[Chinook]

Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) what is your assesment on Kyle Anderson's Ghastly postseason performance so far? The little nig is flying under the radar with all the Green, Forbes and Paddy talk. Surely, he deserves a little criticism too.

I didn't SEE today's game (as I mentioned upthread), so I can't say much about how Anderson played qualitatively tonight. But his line looks unremarkable, though not "ghastly". I didn't think he played all that poorly in Game One. He couldn't guard KD, but that's not his fault. He needs to be more aggressive, but that's pretty much par for the course. Dude wasn't giving it up like he was in love, the way Forbes and Patty were. Nor did he foul like three times in a minute like Murray did. He's not earning himself money right now, but I don't think he should be much closer to the "radar" than he currently is.

[DAF86]

Because it shows the depth of your butt-hurt to bring up a past conversation with a guy who wasn't even in the thread. Like if I started this thread, it would make sense to "call me out" for changing my mind. As it was, it was you just choosing to rub salt in what you think is a wound.

You weren't wrong, though: I do disagree with the OP. I didn't physically see this game (just radio for bits and Gamecast for the rest), so I can't say if there was anything specifically about this game to trigger the thread. In general though:

a) The Spurs' depth at small-forward is great assuming a healthy Kawhi. Their weakness comes at guard right now, really just any kind of guard. That will require drastic changes and real dollars to fix. Kawhi being healthy would help, but you still have a declining Green, a limited Mills, a green and relatively unskilled Murray an unknown White, a bad Forbes and an old Manu and Tony there. Not good. White's the only one I absolutely want to see back next year.

b) The Spurs' lack of bigs outside of LMA and guards in general is getting confused with the idea that focusing on bigs and guards is inferior to a wing-centric approach. Pop seems to want to go for specialists over generalists, and that SHOULD actually work out well considering the way the market has shfited away from specialists and how many specialist skills are falling by the wayside. However, the only legit specialist he has on the entire freaking roster is LMA. He has no other bigs who can score reliably in the post, no guards who can get into the paint, no consistent spot-up guys and maybe one real defensive specialist (who's getting to be more icy than hot on that end too).

The plan itself is simple, straight-forward and doesn't have many weaknesses. He wants a ball-control offense with guys (specialists) who can score one-on-one on mismatches (otherwise known as the generalists everyone loves), and make the right play out of doubles to get some good shots. On D, he wants an aggressive switching scheme to keep guys from getting a lot of good looks from three. You get the right guys to run that system, and they should outscore generalist teams more often than not. These just aren't the right guys.

For a Kawhi-less season, the only path to making noise this roster had was if guys like Gay, Green, Tony and Manu had great seasons. Didn't happen. Probably shouldn't have expected it to.

Can we stop making the difference between "guards" and "forward"? Shooting guards have a lot more in common with Small forwards than with point guards.

I agree that point guard is our weakest position, but I would rather have wings that can handle the ball instead of true midget point guards (unless we can somehow get an all-star caliber PG like Irving or Paul). Luckily we have two 6'5 PG's (in White and Murray) that could he the future of the franchise. We just need to make up for the wings that will no longer be with us (Green, Kawhi and hopefully Anderson, unless he is signed for nothing higher than around 3/5 millions per year, just as a regular season minutes eater) and find a long term stretch 4 starter (I think it can still be Bertans, but if not you need to find one).

So yeah, get as many 6'6" or higher guys that can move their feet and shoot. Then you can worry about getting a 3rd big to play behind Aldridge and 17 millions per year Gasol, tbh.

[HarlemHeat37]

I didn't SEE today's game (as I mentioned upthread), so I can't say much about how Anderson played qualitatively tonight. But his line looks unremarkable, though not "ghastly". I didn't think he played all that poorly in Game One. He couldn't guard KD, but that's not his fault. He needs to be more aggressive, but that's pretty much par for the course. Dude wasn't giving it up like he was in love, the way Forbes and Patty were. Nor did he foul like three times in a minute like Murray did. He's not earning himself money right now, but I don't think he should be much closer to the "radar" than he currently is.

He was the best KD defender tonight, but his offense was pathetic..bricked an open corner 3 then ajrballed a corner 3, then passed up an open 3 later on which ultimately led to a bad shot by a teammate..

His game will never open up with the Spurs IMO..

[Chinook]

Can we stop making the difference between "guards" and "forward"? Shooting guards have a lot more in common with Small forwards than with point guards.

No, because the problem the team has is it's missing guard skills, not wing size. In that regard, two-guards and small-forwards are very different, especially when talking about depth guys. Getting a 6-3 guy who can put up 20-plus points with quickness and ball-handling is much more important than getting a 6-6 guy who can switch everything and shoot a decent percentage. That latter is for a roster with their main guys already identified.


I agree that point guard is our weakest position, but I would rather have wings that can handle the ball instead of true midget point guards (unless we can somehow get an all-star caliber PG like Irving or Paul). Luckily we have two 6'5 PG's (in White and Murray) that could he the future of the franchise. We just need to make up for the wings that will no longer be with us (Green, Kawhi and hopefully Anderson, unless he is signed for nothing higher than around 3/5 millions per year, just as a regular season minutes eater) and find a long term stretch 4 starter (I think it can still be Bertans, but if not you need to find one).

I've never disagreed with that, though. In fact, I went further in saying that I want guys like Forbes replaced with bigger dudes and guys like Green potentially replaced with younger shooters. We disagreed on what to do with the 18th pick. If they lose Gay and Kawhi, they have to replace them with vets or guys like Jackson or Tatum that you can pen in as starters, not some post-lottery rookie. The low-level guys can be replaced with other low-level guys who are bigger, can shoot or otherwise have more upside. The 18th pick is sitting primed for a pretty good big man to fall, and the team needs that, because they only have one legit big right now


So yeah, get as many 6'6" or higher guys that can move their feet and shoot.

Those guys are a dime a dozen, though. The only position that's easier to fill off the scrap heap is offense-first combo-guard. There's a reason why a new "gem" comes out of the d-league each year. Starting-caliber bigs are significantly less rare, which is why Golden State has been drafting at least one every year.

[Chinook]

He was the best KD defender tonight, but his offense was pathetic..bricked an open corner 3 then ajrballed a corner 3, then passed up an open 3 later on which ultimately led to a bad shot by a teammate..

His game will never open up with the Spurs IMO..

I'll be really curious to see how his free agency goes. I think he wants to leave, but PATFO seems to like him.

[Gagnrath]

2 cents from watching the first half and third quarter of last night's game. Tony is beyond done. Oh wow he's past his sell by date. Oddly Manu isn't he's being asked to do to much and on a bad roster. Should he be kept another year? Eh I would keep him for anything under 7 mill with some performance bonuses. Anderson,. He is to where he should have been last year, that said he offense has regressed he isn't passing confidently, he is scared to shoot from any range, he won't drive and he isn't boarding aggressively. I don't know if he's worth bringing back. I don't feel like he's growing as a player. OMG Patty Mills got overpaid. He shows flashes from time to time of being able to run an offense, but isn't close to consistent with that and it's no where close to being able to be counted on. Otherwise he is short volume shooter

[eDizzle20]

I would love to see the Spurs draft Big Ten player of the year Keita Bates Diop. He doesn't look extremely athletic, but is extremely long. He is 6'7" with a 7'4" wingspan. Briefly watching video on him he guards pretty well on ball. His length allows him to play off the offensive player a little bit. Offensively he has a nice touch and a solid shooting stroke. Gone are the days of rim protectors. It's best to draft small forwards and strecth 4's.

[BackHome]

2 cents from watching the first half and third quarter of last night's game. Tony is beyond done. Oh wow he's past his sell by date. Oddly Manu isn't he's being asked to do to much and on a bad roster. Should he be kept another year? Eh I would keep him for anything under 7 mill with some performance bonuses. Anderson,. He is to where he should have been last year, that said he offense has regressed he isn't passing confidently, he is scared to shoot from any range, he won't drive and he isn't boarding aggressively. I don't know if he's worth bringing back. I don't feel like he's growing as a player. OMG Patty Mills got overpaid. He shows flashes from time to time of being able to run an offense, but isn't close to consistent with that and it's no where close to being able to be counted on. Otherwise he is short volume shooter

+ 1000000000

[cd98]

Spurs are in a quandary this series. Gay can score, but he can't defend Durant. Slo Mo is a decent defender on Durant, but he can't score. I do think Slo Mo does better in S.A.

[SAGirl]

My dream team would have 4 guys of around 6'6'' to 6'9 and one Athletic 7 footer that just goes around blocking shots and setting screens.
basically the Warriors except they have that plus Curry...

[SAGirl]

They don't need to go all the way to positionless basketball IMO..

There's a MASSIVE middle ground between the current Spurs' 1996 style of play and the progressive teams of the NBA..they can begin by simply acquiring a guard with penetration and scoring skills:lol they have so much room for growth..

This roster and it's style is so bad that people actually get excited about a trash player like Rudy Gay occasionally playing well:lol
truth bomb

[SAGirl]

Chinook (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) what is your assesment on Kyle Anderson's Ghastly postseason performance so far? The little nig is flying under the radar with all the Green, Forbes and Paddy talk. Surely, he deserves a little criticism too.
There is not much to criticize when he's playing 6-7 minutes outside garbage time is there? missed 2 3s, how many did your specialists missed? that is really about as much as could be said. Would have played better than Forbes for sure.

[SAGirl]

a) The Spurs' depth at small-forward is great assuming a healthy Kawhi. Their weakness comes at guard right now, really just any kind of guard. That will require drastic changes and real dollars to fix. Kawhi being healthy would help, but you still have a declining Green, a limited Mills, a green and relatively unskilled Murray an unknown White, a bad Forbes and an old Manu and Tony there. Not good. White's the only one I absolutely want to see back next year.
They can't continue to patch that up or hide it...

[spurraider21]

i find it weird that pop has given forbes a longer leash than anderson in this series.

[spursistan]

If you're including contracts, then ya, I agree..Green should be getting PJ Tucker money and Mills should be making half of what he currently makes..I wouldn't want Pau, regardless, I just dislike everything about him:lol
It still boggles mind how PATFO bent over backwards to accommodate this mercenary (the very same faggot who turned them down in summer 2014 when he actually still had something left). Mills at least had a small sweat equity in this team/franchise and is a legit good lockeroom guy compared to this sulking giraffe. I really don't know what Pop and RC were smoking last summer.

[keithington1]

Troy Brown Jr. is the best SF in our pick range

[SAGirl]

i find it weird that pop has given forbes a longer leash than anderson in this series.
Anderson is falling on the sword bc the team can't score. I have never taken for granted that he's coming back and it is probably for the best both for Spurs and himself. Spurs need to look for young talent with offensive potential and he is not it. He needs to play with guys who can score bc he's a passer/defender and this Spurs team barely has any scoring talent.

It would suck to replace his minutes with Forbes though as Pop is doing, but maybe the spurs are heading to the tank anyways.

[pad300]

It still boggles mind how PATFO bent over backwards to accommodate this mercenary (the very same faggot who turned them down in summer 2014 when he actually still had something left). Mills at least had a small sweat equity in this team/franchise and is a legit good lockeroom guy compared to this sulking giraffe. I really don't know what Pop and RC were smoking last summer.

It's not really surprising. They obviously had a wink-wink deal with Pau that if he opted out, allowing them to compete for Chris Paul, he would be made whole for the 16.5 Million he was opting out of. I will admit, this current contract is not how I would have chosen to make it up to him... Rather, I would have offered him $18.5 (million) (using non-bird rights for a 20% raise) and another 18.5 (6 guaranteed) as opposed to the 16/16/16 (6 guaranteed) that they did put in front of him.

[ace3g]

Early look to FA 2018 for @spurs (https://twitter.com/spurs/) (only for SG/SF spots)

1. Belinelli
2. Will Barton
3. Wilson Chandler
4. Casspi
5. Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
6. Mario Hezonja
7. Garrett Temple
8. Rodney Hood

I would also add Tyreke Evans and explore trades for Stanley Johnson again.

[ace3g]

2019 Free Agents:

Allen Crabbe (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2531210/allen-crabbe) (P),
DeMarre Carroll (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3970/demarre-carroll)
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6601/michael-kidd-gilchrist)
Jeremy Lamb (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6603/jeremy-lamb),
Marvin Williams (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2797/marvin-williams) (P)
Harrison Barnes
Khris Middleton (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6609/khris-middleton)

[Dex]

I'm just tired of these combo guards.

All our guys are the wrong combo.

If you are a SG/SF who can play some point, you are golden. Ginobili was a perfect example of this in his prime, and helped revolutionize the position.

Most PG/SGs are guys who are too short to be a shooting guard, but not good enough passers to be point guards.

I also don't think it's a coincidence that teams (Spurs included) keep reaching on these guys while the Steph Curry phenomenon is happening.

[-21-]

Not a lot of interesting options in FA tbh. Will Barton and Tyreke Evans are okay I guess. Maybe through a trade or the draft.

[ace3g]

Also look the trade route for players that were rumored unhappy with their current teams in Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker (bit more risk with Parker).

[alfahdlan]

I would love to see the Spurs draft Big Ten player of the year Keita Bates Diop. He doesn't look extremely athletic, but is extremely long. He is 6'7" with a 7'4" wingspan. Briefly watching video on him he guards pretty well on ball. His length allows him to play off the offensive player a little bit. Offensively he has a nice touch and a solid shooting stroke. Gone are the days of rim protectors. It's best to draft small forwards and strecth 4's.
+1

[ace3g]

Well now that the offseason is here, my stance hasn't changed on what type of player(s) the Spurs need to add.

[ace3g]

BUMP

[TDMVPDPOY]

isnt corey brewer still available?

[DAF86]

Manu gonna be on the roster until he's 50. And pop will still be playing him because he can score 9 points in 17 minutes once every 6 games. :cry

I wish we still had Manu to savage this abortion, tbh. He would easily be our best perimeter defender. :lol

[Chinook]

Now folks can see what it really means to not have any SFs.

[DAF86]

Get as many 6'6" or higher guys that can move their feet and shoot.



Those guys are a dime a dozen, though. The only position that's easier to fill off the scrap heap is offense-first combo-guard. There's a reason why a new "gem" comes out of the d-league each year. Starting-caliber bigs are significantly less rare, which is why Golden State has been drafting at least one every year.

You were right son. Dante Cunningham and Quincy Pondexter. Just an ocean full of those types of players to choose from.

[Chinook]

You were right son. Dante Cunningham and Quincy Pondexter. Just an ocean full of those types of players to choose from.

They are a dime-a-dozen. PATFO literally just avoided picking up anyone good. Shit Toronto had like five or six just lying around, but instead ... Poeltl

[DAF86]

You didn't have to be a fucking genius to realize, last season, that the Spurs' wing future was looking bleak. We added a fricking 6'7" all-star and we are still at least 3 capable wings away from having a good roster.

[Chinook]

That happens when you trade away or let go of their three best defensive wings and replace them with minus defenders or guys who can't defend the position they're playing. Like people thought the wing situation was bad when the team was an elite D despite missing their DPOY. Now they can see what it really looks like to have a shitty wing situation. If they had Green, Anderson and Murray this year, they'd again be fine.

As I said in this very thread, they needed to replace the guys they lost with vet wings or at least top prospects who could be counted on to play roles. I was VERY happy they used 18 on Walker and didn't reach for the next available forward. I was less happy about letting Anderson go for Bertans and Forbes. I was annoyed at them using their MLE on Beli. And I was livid over them including Green along with Kawhi and not getting back a defensive wing.

[DAF86]

That happens when they traded away or let go of their three best defensive wings. Like people thought the wing situation was bad when the team was an elite D despite missing their DPOY. Now they can see what it really looks like to have a shitty wing situation. If they had Green, Anderson and Murray this year, they'd again be fine.

You are missing the point son. Last season, every smart Spurs fan realized that there was a very good chance that we would lose the players we lost. The rumour of Kawhi wanting out was already floating and Anderson and Green were free agents. That's why many of us were worried about this position.

Also, many people also thought that Green and specially Anderson weren't good enough; so yeah, even if those guys would have stayed we still needed more wings. In today's NBA you can't have too many wings, just get that through your head once and for all.

A perfect NBA roster today would consist of 3 or 4 bigmen and the rest all wing players. Midget PG's (unless super-talents like Curry) are unnecesary if you have the most important type of player in today's NBA, which is a playmaking wing.

You have a playmaking wing that works as the defacto PG and surround that guy with 3 wings that can defend and shoot and a bigmen. That's it, that's what you need.

Or do you not think that a lineup of say:

DeRozan, Green, Ariza, Gay, Aldridge

Wouldn't be better than:

Forbes, DeRozan, Gay, Aldridge and Poeltl?

[DAF86]

That happens when you trade away or let go of their three best defensive wings and replace them with minus defenders or guys who can't defend the position they're playing. Like people thought the wing situation was bad when the team was an elite D despite missing their DPOY. Now they can see what it really looks like to have a shitty wing situation. If they had Green, Anderson and Murray this year, they'd again be fine.

As I said in this very thread, they needed to replace the guys they lost with vet wings or at least top prospects who could be counted on to play roles. I was VERY happy they used 18 on Walker and didn't reach for the next available forward. I was less happy about letting Anderson go for Bertans and Forbes. I was annoyed at them using their MLE on Beli. And I was livid over them including Green along with Kawhi and not getting back a defensive wing.

Two of those players can't shoot, and the other can't dribble. No, we wouldn't have been fine. Sure, our defense would still be good but we would also be an extremely flawed offensive team. DeRozan wouldn't be having the offensive season he's having next to Murray and Anderson, tbh.

[Chinook]

You are missing the point son.

Nah. You missed the point I made toward the end of this thread's original run. The team drafting an SF at 18 was not important. Such a player wouldn't have closer to a rotation spot than Walker. It doesn't help that guy the time SA got to draft, there wasn't even a decent forward in the range. The Spurs failed to address the position in free agency.


Also, many people also thought that Green and specially Anderson weren't good enough

And they were wrong. That's what this year should be teaching people. The Spurs badly need good guard play last year. They finally have a top guard again, but now they let their wings go. The Spurs were a tremendous defensive team last year, but "smart" folks constantly shat on them. Now their gone, and it turns out that they weren't that bad after all. Hell, OP (who is a perfectly good poster) even got his top guy signed in Beli, and it still looks like an abortion.


A perfect NBA roster today would consist of 3 or 4 bigmen and the rest all wing players.

This is where we still disagree. It's not like the Spurs have a bunch of good players, but they're not wings so it's not working out. They have a bunch of shitty players. When you don't have talent, it doesn't matter what position you play. You add Derozan instead of Leonard's injured ass last year, and the team probably makes the WCF. That's not because of them being a modern team or whatever. They just literally had no one last year who could do anything on the perimeter. Hell, even 2013 Parker would have made the Spurs a top-level team.


Or do you not think that a lineup of say:

DeRozan, Green, Ariza, Gay, Aldridge

Wouldn't be better than:

Forbes, DeRozan, Gay, Aldridge and Poeltl?

This is disingenuous as shit. You're asking if Green and Ariza are better than Forbes and Poeltl. Yes. Obviously if Danny plays the way he seems to be playing this year. This is setting aside that Ariza signed for way more than SA could offer and that Green was a part of the DeRozan trade. It's also overlooking that Forbes was forced into the starting unit because of injuries. Have a couple unknown, cheap wings in there instead of guys with many years of good or great service. I don't know if it is better or not. I do know that an elite 6-2 player is much more helpful than a mediocre 6-7 player. If you have a chance to get the elite talent, you do it. You don't worry about modern trends. The good players use their differences to their advantage and don't let generalists dictate the tempo. An elite big doesn't let a 6-8 guy hold him down in the post. An elite guard doesn't let a slower wing keep him from the rim. Mismatches go both ways, and the specialists have the advantage in a stable environment.

[Chinook]

Two of those players can't shoot, and the other can't dribble. No, we wouldn't have been fine. Sure, our defense would still be good but we would also be an extremely flawed offensive team. DeRozan wouldn't be having the offensive season he's having next to Murray and Anderson, tbh.

He doesn't need to be great. The team was three wins from the three-seed as they were, and that included an insanely bad record in close games. Just having a reliable perimeter player down the stretch would have made the difference in some of those. They won 47 games despite folks acting like they were the shittiest team ever. They were fine last year. Adding an elite guard would not have made them worse. It's plum absurd to argue it would.

[r0drig0lac]

tyreke evans, wilson chandler and mario hezonja would be a good addition to the depth

.

[r0drig0lac]

You are missing the point son. Last season, every smart Spurs fan realized that there was a very good chance that we would lose the players we lost. The rumour of Kawhi wanting out was already floating and Anderson and Green were free agents. That's why many of us were worried about this position.

Also, many people also thought that Green and specially Anderson weren't good enough; so yeah, even if those guys would have stayed we still needed more wings. In today's NBA you can't have too many wings, just get that through your head once and for all.

A perfect NBA roster today would consist of 3 or 4 bigmen and the rest all wing players. Midget PG's (unless super-talents like Curry) are unnecesary if you have the most important type of player in today's NBA, which is a playmaking wing.

You have a playmaking wing that works as the defacto PG and surround that guy with 3 wings that can defend and shoot and a bigmen. That's it, that's what you need.

Or do you not think that a lineup of say:

DeRozan, Green, Ariza, Gay, Aldridge

Wouldn't be better than:

Forbes, DeRozan, Gay, Aldridge and Poeltl?

this

[SAGirl]

:pop:
You mean to say that Bryn is not a SF?

And neither is Bertans?

[DAF86]

He doesn't need to be great. The team was three wins from the three-seed as they were, and that included an insanely bad record in close games. Just having a reliable perimeter player down the stretch would have made the difference in some of those. They won 47 games despite folks acting like they were the shittiest team ever. They were fine last year. Adding an elite guard would not have made them worse. It's plum absurd to argue it would.

Let's say Murray wouldn't have got hurt and Anderson would have been resigned.

Do you really think a lineup of Murray, DeRozan, Anderson, Aldridge and Poeltl would have done much better than the 47 wins we had last year?

Anderson worked the last regular season because he was kind of the perimeter playmaker of the 1st unit. On that role, his lack of shooting was mitigated. He wouldn't have worked as an off-ball player next to DeRozan, much less with Murray at PG. That's why many of us said that simply adding a playmaker to the team we had last season wasn't going to be enough.

[DAF86]

Nah. You missed the point I made toward the end of this thread's original run. The team drafting an SF at 18 was not important. Such a player wouldn't have closer to a rotation spot than Walker. It doesn't help that guy the time SA got to draft, there wasn't even a decent forward in the range. The Spurs failed to address the position in free agency.

Your problem is trying to make a distinction between SG and SF as if the positions were so different. Walker is a wing, and I'm completely fine with picking him up.

And no, "playmaking skills" isn't a characterstic of guards that forwards don't have. Patty Mills isn't more of a playmaker than Lebron fucking James. You don't think the comparisson is fair? Well, Patty Mills isn't more of a playmaker than Joe Ingles or even Kyle Anderson. So stop it with that prehistoric idea that guards are quick, skilled players and Forwards are rugged, skill limited players.



And they were wrong. That's what this year should be teaching people. The Spurs badly need good guard play last year. They finally have a top guard again, but now they let their wings go. The Spurs were a tremendous defensive team last year, but "smart" folks constantly shat on them. Now their gone, and it turns out that they weren't that bad after all. Hell, OP (who is a perfectly good poster) even got his top guy signed in Beli, and it still looks like an abortion.

Like I told you in a post above, simply adding DeRozan to Murray and Anderson wouldn't have made us any better. So no, people that thought we should have got more wings weren't wrong.


This is where we still disagree. It's not like the Spurs have a bunch of good players, but they're not wings so it's not working out. They have a bunch of shitty players. When you don't have talent, it doesn't matter what position you play. You add Derozan instead of Leonard's injured ass last year, and the team probably makes the WCF. That's not because of them being a modern team or whatever. They just literally had no one last year who could do anything on the perimeter. Hell, even 2013 Parker would have made the Spurs a top-level team.

Sure, if you can choose between Kemba Walker or Trevor Ariza, you should choose the all-star level player. I didn't think I needed to clarify thay. What I'm saying is that at equally level of talent, you should always go with the wing sized player.


This is disingenuous as shit. You're asking if Green and Ariza are better than Forbes and Poeltl. Yes. Obviously if Danny plays the way he seems to be playing this year. This is setting aside that Ariza signed for way more than SA could offer and that Green was a part of the DeRozan trade. It's also overlooking that Forbes was forced into the starting unit because of injuries. Have a couple unknown, cheap wings in there instead of guys with many years of good or great service. I don't know if it is better or not. I do know that an elite 6-2 player is much more helpful than a mediocre 6-7 player. If you have a chance to get the elite talent, you do it. You don't worry about modern trends. The good players use their differences to their advantage and don't let generalists dictate the tempo. An elite big doesn't let a 6-8 guy hold him down in the post. An elite guard doesn't let a slower wing keep him from the rim. Mismatches go both ways, and the specialists have the advantage in a stable environment.

You don't like the Green and Ariza examples? Use any wings that you think are equally in level to Forbes and Poeltl and make the comparisson.

Let's say:

Josh Hart (who is averaging the same kind of minutes and pts that Forbes is averaging) and Pascal Siakam (a third year player who played about the same amount of minutes that Poeltl played last season).

Forbes, DeRozan, Gay, Aldridge, Poeltl

Vs

DeRozan, Hart, Siakam, Gay, Aldridge

Which team is better?

[r0drig0lac]

spurs should seek a trade with some team with stacking of wings like the heat

[SAGirl]

Spurs didn’t value the wings they had (other than Kiwi)

Regardless of what your opinions are on them, the worse thing was giving them all away, while not having anyone else in the pipeline to take their place or get any wing back in return.

Spurs had all these guys that are gone for nothing the last couple of seasons: (1) Simms— you asked to be let out of you RFA status? Off you go; (2) Hanga- you got a fat contract (not as phat as Patty), but ofc you go too. (3) Danny, you are good in a good contract, we have to retain Tony, Paddy and Pau, let’s see what we can get for you. Result= thrown in a trade bc Nephew by himself wasn’t good enough for Toronto (yeah, right)...:wtf (4) Anderson? yeah thanks for your 3 seasons of nice blue collar hustle, but we ain’t paying you. You will be fine in Memphis. (5) Manu? nothing we can do about your retirement, you earned it. I mean we had planned to bring Hanga over had you retired a year b4 but it’s cool. It’s not like we didn’t know beforehand that this was coming. We are shocked that we miss you. We panicked when Timmy retired and we gave a huge deal to Gasol, but we will be fine with Belli bc it’s not like we have other shooters in Forbes and Davis. We don’t need anyone who hustles like you did. We are fine.

But wait!

last season

:pop: we are going to do it again but with more talent.

Also Pop:

This season
:pop: We are defensively challenged. :smchode::smchode:

/end blue font where it applies.

I hope people appreciate the humor.

———————-

Sometimes I think they will look to do a small trade but I am not sure. They can chalk this terrible defense to missing 2nd team D Murray and just stumble all season. The only reason that a trade even crosses my mind is Pop acknowledging the personnel they have is not ideal but they also said in preseason they were looking around and still left a 2 way spot open for a guy in a walking boot for the rest of the year and kept Pondexter who only comes in garbage time and has no upside.

[r0drig0lac]

while gsw signs with Alfonzo McKinnie, a 6'8''SF for a 2-way contract while already has a stack of athletic and versatile guys on the perimeter (
Bell, Derickson, Dray, Iggy, Livingston, Klay, etc.),It's really depressing.

[TDMVPDPOY]

defense wins games is what the spurs are known for,

dont tell me pop is going away from that mantra?

[palangi]

Are we really talking about Danny green and KA as the missing parts to this roster? Oh good God!
KA is averaging 4 points and 4 rebounds in 22 minutes a game and still hasn't made a 3 pointer

Green still can't dribble.

Those two need to go. The error was in ignoring sounds to replace them with.

[Chinook]

Your problem is trying to make a distinction between SG and SF as if the positions were so different. Walker is a wing, and I'm completely fine with picking him up.

Yet Walker wouldn't do shit against KD in the playoffs either, which is what people were bitching about last year. Dude is 6-4 and change. To act like that's the same thing as a legit small-forward is obtuse. Four Walkers and a big isn't going to stop anyone.


And no, "playmaking skills" isn't a characterstic of guards that forwards don't have. Patty Mills isn't more of a playmaker than Lebron fucking James. You don't think the comparisson is fair? Well, Patty Mills isn't more of a playmaker than Joe Ingles or even Kyle Anderson. So stop it with that prehistoric idea that guards are quick, skilled players and Forwards are rugged, skill limited players.

Patty doesn't have guard skills. He pretty much just shoots. That's why he needed to play off a play-making wing. More importantly, that's why I said the team lacked "guard skills" despite Mills being on the roster last year. It's like you really can't comprehend the idea that the team didn't have good guards last year. The D was fine. They didn't need taller guys than Patty or Forbes. They needed guys who were better play-makers than those two. Hence the need for guards over wings and why just getting 6-6 three-and-D players wouldn't have helped them.


Like I told you in a post above, simply adding DeRozan to Murray and Anderson wouldn't have made us any better. So no, people that thought we should have got more wings weren't wrong.

And that was a lie. Adding DeRozan wouldn't have hurt the team at all. Anderson would have been able to play on the bench like he had always been planned to, and you would have had Murray, DeRozan, Green and Aldridge as the main crew with Gasol and Bertans rotating the other starting spot. The offense was shit last year because they had one guy who could score more than 20 points in a given game and no one who could break down a defense. That team managed to be a decent offense with just Kawhi on the perimeter. They would have been at least as good with DeRozan.


Sure, if you can choose between Kemba Walker or Trevor Ariza, you should choose the all-star level player. I didn't think I needed to clarify thay. What I'm saying is that at equally level of talent, you should always go with the wing sized player.

What does equal levels of talent mean to you? It doesn't mean having a wing and guard with the same skill-set. Then the wing inherently has more talent. Lebron and Chris Paul aren't equal talents. Lebron is just way better, because he can do everything Paul can do while also being 6-8. A team of Lebron, Kawhi, Durant, Giannis and Davis would crush any team in any era. That's a talent thing, not a "new NBA" thing. But a team of Prime Parker, Green, Leonard, Aldridge and Prime Splitter would beat a team of wings, even good wings. It's much easier to compensate for Parker's lack of height and Aldridge's lack of mobility (compared to wings) than it is to compensate for everyone on your team being at a disadvantage against two of the opposing players unless you constantly double.


Josh Hart (who is averaging the same kind of minutes and pts that Forbes is averaging) and Pascal Siakam (a third year player who played about the same amount of minutes that Poeltl played last season).

Forbes, DeRozan, Gay, Aldridge, Poeltl

Vs

DeRozan, Hart, Siakam, Gay, Aldridge

I don't think it's fair to compare Poe of this year to Siakam. Last year, Jakob was better. This year, he's at a nadir of value. If Jakob can figure out how to stop getting in the way on offense and how to be a better rebounder, he'll at least have some type of advantage to work. But as of right now, he's a bad big, much worse than Siakam is a forward. Then you have Forbes, who is playing a position because of injuries compared to a 3-and-D wing who's able to play that way because he has two or three top-level play-makers. Also ignores that Hart was a first-rounder and Forbes was a UDFA.

I do wonder about Siakam's ability to defend threes and Hart's ability to defend 1s. Pascal is a big more than he's a forward. He'd fit in well with Aldridge but less well with Gay. With DeRozan also on the team, I could see them performing much worse than you seem to think they'd do.

[DAF86]

Yet Walker wouldn't do shit against KD in the playoffs either, which is what people were bitching about last year. Dude is 6-4 and change. To act like that's the same thing as a legit small-forward is obtuse. Four Walkers and a big isn't going to stop anyone.



Patty doesn't have guard skills. He pretty much just shoots. That's why he needed to play off a play-making wing. More importantly, that's why I said the team lacked "guard skills" despite Mills being on the roster last year. It's like you really can't comprehend the idea that the team didn't have good guards last year. The D was fine. They didn't need taller guys than Patty or Forbes. They needed guys who were better play-makers than those two. Hence the need for guards over wings and why just getting 6-6 three-and-D players wouldn't have helped them.



And that was a lie. Adding DeRozan wouldn't have hurt the team at all. Anderson would have been able to play on the bench like he had always been planned to, and you would have had Murray, DeRozan, Green and Aldridge as the main crew with Gasol and Bertans rotating the other starting spot. The offense was shit last year because they had one guy who could score more than 20 points in a given game and no one who could break down a defense. That team managed to be a decent offense with just Kawhi on the perimeter. They would have been at least as good with DeRozan.



What does equal levels of talent mean to you? It doesn't mean having a wing and guard with the same skill-set. Then the wing inherently has more talent. Lebron and Chris Paul aren't equal talents. Lebron is just way better, because he can do everything Paul can do while also being 6-8. A team of Lebron, Kawhi, Durant, Giannis and Davis would crush any team in any era. That's a talent thing, not a "new NBA" thing. But a team of Prime Parker, Green, Leonard, Aldridge and Prime Splitter would beat a team of wings, even good wings. It's much easier to compensate for Parker's lack of height and Aldridge's lack of mobility (compared to wings) than it is to compensate for everyone on your team being at a disadvantage against two of the opposing players unless you constantly double.



I don't think it's fair to compare Poe of this year to Siakam. Last year, Jakob was better. This year, he's at a nadir of value. If Jakob can figure out how to stop getting in the way on offense and how to be a better rebounder, he'll at least have some type of advantage to work. But as of right now, he's a bad big, much worse than Siakam is a forward. Then you have Forbes, who is playing a position because of injuries compared to a 3-and-D wing who's able to play that way because he has two or three top-level play-makers. Also ignores that Hart was a first-rounder and Forbes was a UDFA.

I do wonder about Siakam's ability to defend threes and Hart's ability to defend 1s. Pascal is a big more than he's a forward. He'd fit in well with Aldridge but less well with Gay. With DeRozan also on the team, I could see them performing much worse than you seem to think they'd do.

There are no such things as having "guard skills" or "forward skills" because there are many different types of guards and forwards. Kyle Anderson has nothing to do with Kyle Korver and both are listed as small forwards. Patty Mills has nothing to do with JJ Barea and both play PG. You just have off-ball players and playmakers, and both of those type of players come in all sizes and positions, BUT, at equal level of talent, it is always better to have both of those types of skillsets in wing sized players,

[JeffDuncan]

There are no such things as having "guard skills" or "forward skills" ...

Sure there are. A point guard is a primary ball handler, a play caller, an excellent passer, an effective threat to score at least from either the outside or on drives, and the primary defender of the other team's point guard. Among a couple other things, like being very quick and fast.

A forward is not the team's primary ball handler (except in unusual cases like LeBron sometimes,) not the play caller (usually,) not necessarily an excellent passer (altho that always helps,) more of a scorer from the inside, and a guy who can defend the other team's bigs. Etc. And not with such a need for quickness.


...because there are many different types of guards and forwards. Kyle Anderson has nothing to do with Kyle Korver ...

But that's just mentioning different players. It says nothing about the desired skill sets, when teams have to play who they've got.


... BUT, at equal level of talent, it is always better to have both of those types of skillsets in wing sized players

Trouble is, if you go all midsize, you'll give up speed on the outside, and height and weight on the inside.

[Dex]

Fuck that, lets sign 15 undersized SGs and then watch the best ones' legs fall off.

[TDMVPDPOY]

why didnt they try to get powell from raptors... they have so many wings, yet spurms didnt try asking for one, but went for the great white hope

[SAGirl]

why didnt they try to get powell from raptors... they have so many wings, yet spurms didnt try asking for one, but went for the great white hope
I suspect Powell was gettable.

I also suspect they didn't want him. To be fair, he's the same size as Walker and White give or take a half an inch... he's not exactly of sufficient size to help much, he's really a guard and the team had a lot of guards already and then they signed Belli.

[BWS-1994]

spurs should seek a trade with some team with stacking of wings like the heat

Stanley Johnson doesn’t seem to get much playing time from the Pistons. But can he help?

[DAF86]

Sure there are. A point guard is a primary ball handler, a play caller, an excellent passer, an effective threat to score at least from either the outside or on drives, and the primary defender of the other team's point guard. Among a couple other things, like being very quick and fast.

A forward is not the team's primary ball handler (except in unusual cases like LeBron sometimes,) not the play caller (usually,) not necessarily an excellent passer (altho that always helps,) more of a scorer from the inside, and a guy who can defend the other team's bigs. Etc. And not with such a need for quickness.

That's just theory. In reality, more and more wings are taking playmaking responsabilities: Lebron, Harden, Draymond Green, DeRozan, Giannis, Butler, Oladipo, among others. And that's not taking into account wings like Durant and Kawhi, who are more traditional scoring wings but that have the ball in their hands so much that end up functioning as defacto PG's for great parts of the game.


But that's just mentioning different players. It says nothing about the desired skill sets, when teams have to play who they've got

Everybody that isn't trying to be intentionally obtuse knows what the differences between Kyle Anderson and Kyle Korver are.


Trouble is, if you go all midsize, you'll give up speed on the outside, and height and weight on the inside.

If you don't have extremely slow footed wings like Anderson or Gay, you can make up for speed with long strides and size. Why do you think everytime a team wants to stop an opposing PG, they put a wing on him?

And traditional bigmen size isn't as important in today's NBA. If you have wings with length, any type of disadvantage you may have for lack of size, you more than make up for it with advantages on quickness, speed, agility, versatility and athleticism. There's a reason why the most deadly lineup in the entire NBA has an originally 6'7" SF playing center.

[Spurs da champs]

Stanley Johnson doesn’t seem to get much playing time from the Pistons. But can he help?

It's worth a shot, he's still very young and he's a big wing.

[Chinook]

There are no such things as having "guard skills" or "forward skills" because there are many different types of guards and forwards. Kyle Anderson has nothing to do with Kyle Korver and both are listed as small forwards. Patty Mills has nothing to do with JJ Barea and both play PG. You just have off-ball players and playmakers, and both of those type of players come in all sizes and positions, BUT, at equal level of talent, it is always better to have both of those types of skillsets in wing sized players,

So there's a lot wrong with this. They are many types of skills and multiple types of players. But some skills tend to show up in certain players more frequently, and some skills work better on certain positions. Having a guard who's a great shot-blocker is just not as useful as having a big who is a great shot-blocker. It tends to be easier for guards to be elite ball-handlers because of biomechanics. That's why guys like Giannis and Kristaps are considered unicorns. They display skills you would expect to find in guys much shorter than them.

We don't disagree that in the modern age, kids are learning guard skills despite being taller. That's why almost every big coming out of school today has some semblance of a three-point shot. In even the recent past, those kids would have been discouraged from learning those skills over perfecting their post game or bulking up to defend inside. That creates a more skilled front-court crop to select from, which makes it less important to have guards with those skills.

This has two results. The first is that having "6-6 guys who can move their feet and shoot" is becoming extremely common. Those players aren't rare, even if PATFO treats them like they are. The d-league is full of those players. What you'd want is for the Spurs to identify the best of those players and cycle through them to find someone who sticks. They did this in the past leading to them finding Green. They tried it with guys like Malcolm Thomas and JaMychal Green. There's no excuse why they aren't doing it now. They aren't good enough to let guys like Pon eat up a spot and to earmark a precious two-way for Huestis. Those are spots to try out players like Davon Reed and Jarrod Uthoff. Them sitting on their haunches is frustrating to everyone.

The second result is where I think we are having our disconnect. Because of the more skilled front-court crop, back-court players are more available than ever. Again, I know it doesn't look like it, but it's easier than ever to acquire a shorter guy who can handle the ball and score points. Just because forwards got better doesn't mean guards got worse. So for the same resources available to pick up C-level wings, PATFO should be able to get B-level guards. If for some reason bigs were still learning post skills, them those skills would be cheaper to acquire than every. But since there's a finite amount of improvement someone can make during their development, those elements fell off for the aforementioned perimeter elements.

So it's cheaper and easier to get quality guards, and if you can find them, it's cheaper to get inside, post bigs. That gives the justification for considering a specialist approach to roster building. The next step is talking about its efficacy. This is getting really long as it is, so I'll leave it there for now, but as a short explanation, I'll say that a team with a methodical and disciplined offensive game plan does better with specialists, and a team with a faster-paced, free-flowing game plan does better with generalists. When the Spurs had their elite defense, it made much more sense to have the former game plan. But with their lack of talent (really on both sides of the ball outside of their main two guys and maybe Gay), it's becoming less advantageous.

[r0drig0lac]

Stanley Johnson doesn’t seem to get much playing time from the Pistons. But can he help?

he is a starter, I doubt they are interested in trading, there are probably some options for low value in intermediate teams or even in the g-league, Spurs definitely needs a small forward (two imo)

[RC_Drunkford]

let's sign Brandon Paul, he's supposedly as good as Jonathon Simmons some people say

[Chinook]

let's sign Brandon Paul, he's supposedly as good as Jonathon Simmons some people say

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jonathon+Simmons&player_id1_select=Jonathon+Simmons&y1=2019&player_id1=simmojo02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Bryn+Forbes&player_id2_select=Bryn+Forbes&y2=2019&player_id2=forbebr01&idx=players&player_id3_hint=Patty+Mills&player_id3_select=Patty+Mills&y3=2019&player_id3=millspa02&idx=players&player_id4_hint=Brandon+Paul&player_id4_select=Brandon+Paul&y4=2018&player_id4=paulbr01&idx=players

Simmons has been effin' terrible this year (like absolutely as bad as Patty). I'd much rather than Paul right now than Jon.

[paperboy77]

Could they trade for Simmons? Yeah he's shit right now probably one of those deals where the SA system made him look good.

[DAF86]

let's sign Brandon Paul, he's supposedly as good as Jonathon Simmons some people say

lol I'm watching the Magic right now. Simmons is a fucking scrub. :lol

On the season, he's shooting 25% from the field and 9% from 3, and his defense is even worse :lmao

Bryn Forbes >>> Simmons. Let that sink in. :lol

[BWS-1994]

he is a starter, I doubt they are interested in trading, there are probably some options for low value in intermediate teams or even in the g-league, Spurs definitely needs a small forward (two imo)

Casey likes himself some 2-3 PG line ups. Maybe he’ll like Bryn Forbes? :D

Based on his minutes, I didn’t notice Stanley was a starter.

Was thinking also of Justin Holiday. But Bulls are pretty banged up. Though if they get ahigh pick in next year’s 2019 SF rich draft...

[DAF86]

Could they trade for Simmons? Yeah he's shit right now probably one of those deals where the SA system made him look good.

When was he good with the Spurs? :lol

[phxspurfan]

What a weird thread

[paperboy77]

DAF86.... When was he good with the Spurs? :lol

He was an important part of a very good team, a key cog. Not sure why anyone wouldn't see that? You're implying he was not good but instead bad.. what's your basis? It's not all about stats. I'm just saying the team today sucks ass and a guy like Simmons who was an important piece back then might put some fire under their ass (effort and attitude wise). Besides he's better than any 3 we have on the roster. The thigk missing is a guy with fire.

[DAF86]

DAF86.... When was he good with the Spurs? :lol

He was an important part of a very good team, a key cog. Not sure why anyone wouldn't see that? You're implying he was not good but instead bad.. what's your basis? It's not all about stats. I'm just saying the team today sucks ass and a guy like Simmons who was an important piece back then might put some fire under their ass (effort and attitude wise). Besides he's better than any 3 we have on the roster. The thigk missing is a guy with fire.

Well, what is it about then? Flashy dunks? :lol

My basis is seeing him play and suck ass, and then go to the stats and reaffirm that, Indeed, he sucks ass.

Simmons is going into his 4th season as an NBA player, and he has yet to post positive impact numbers. His teams have always been worse with him on the court than without him.

[SAGirl]

JSimms suffered a wrist injury late last season and missed training during the summer. He only just started playing in training camp. He has always been streaky and considering lack of summer training shooting with his hand the bad start doesn't surprise me. He might not get in rhythm until later in the season. Hoping for him that wrist injury doesn't affect him like Pattys shoulder. (Patty was very bad the season immediately succeeding the injury.)That missed the point of the thread badly though.

[paperboy77]

Well, what is it about then? Flashy dunks? :lol

My basis is seeing him play and suck ass, and then go to the stats and reaffirm that, Indeed, he sucks ass.

Simmons is going into his 4th season as an NBA player, and he has yet to post positive impact numbers. His teams have always been worse with him on the court than without him.


Nah.. I don't go ape-shit about "the closest shot possible" like most shallow fans do.... it's still just 2 points. However, a dunk under the right circumstances can change the course of the game.

I'm just sayin DAFuck86, that in this Spurs fans opinion "the Juice" could help maybe bring back some of the Spurs grit we are accustomed to. Even Manu endorsed this guy. Don't want to argue about it it's just my thought. Still he would be more welcome by this Spurs fan than any other SF on the current squad.

[SouthTexasRancher]

Simmons has gone into the sewer. He is terrible these days.

[paperboy77]

Just saying SouthTexasRancher, if you worked at a shitty place you may not be fulfilling your potential right? Sometimes the grass isn't greener on the other side.

[cool cat]

Was Simmons ever good? He would get hot like 1 out of 15 games, that's worst then Pattys 1 out of 14 games.

[anon]

Was Simmons ever good? He would get hot like 1 out of 15 games, that's worst then Pattys 1 out of 14 games.

He could defend three positions, and was often the most reliable dribble penetrator not named Leonard. Finishing consistently is a different story but getting the defense to collapse on the ball inside the paint to free up more space for shooters is half the point of dribble penetration. Those two skills alone are already worth more than what Fiddy brings to the floor.

[RC_Drunkford]

DAF86.... When was he good with the Spurs? :lol

He was an important part of a very good team, a key cog. Not sure why anyone wouldn't see that? You're implying he was not good but instead bad.. what's your basis? It's not all about stats. I'm just saying the team today sucks ass and a guy like Simmons who was an important piece back then might put some fire under their ass (effort and attitude wise). Besides he's better than any 3 we have on the roster. The thigk missing is a guy with fire.


He could defend three positions, and was often the most reliable dribble penetrator not named Leonard. Finishing consistently is a different story but getting the defense to collapse on the ball inside the paint to free up more space for shooters is half the point of dribble penetration. Those two skills alone are already worth more than what Fiddy brings to the floor.

at least some guys in here understand Basketball.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sasRd7n0fzY

Besides the Magic being trash and players playing better when they play together with better players, the guy plays too big of a role for Orlando. He's not supposed to be 6th man. He's a glue guy with enforcer personality. Him as 7th or better yet 8th guy on the roster would be perfect. He always brought that energy and with Manu missing, we really need somebody like him off the bench. Sadly PATFO thinks that guy is 50 Mills. Even last season with Kawhi sitting out, we really could've needed Simmons. He was clearly better than Kyle Anderson and I see quite a lot of people complaining we let Anderson go. His cap hold was 1.5 million and we had bird rights. And he seemed to get along with everybody on the team from Lamarcus, Kawhi, Danny, Dejounte, Kyle and so on. They still all like each others posts on IG. So Pop really must've had a problem with him, even though he said Simmons was in a class by himself when they played the Warriors in the Playoffs, cause he was the only one fighting to win while everybody else played like scared bitches. How you wouldn't make a player like that an offer at all is beyond my understanding.

[r0drig0lac]

He could defend three positions, and was often the most reliable dribble penetrator not named Leonard. Finishing consistently is a different story but getting the defense to collapse on the ball inside the paint to free up more space for shooters is half the point of dribble penetration. Those two skills alone are already worth more than what Fiddy brings to the floor.

this, it is not difficult to understand honestly.... and he really can defend on a pro level, hell, Semi Ojeleye does not even have regular minutes in Boston, and would probably starting here just for his defensive versatility

[r0drig0lac]

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2018/10/26/indiana-pacers-guard-tyreke-evans-out-game-against-cleveland-cavaliers/1774968002/

[SAGirl]

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2018/10/26/indiana-pacers-guard-tyreke-evans-out-game-against-cleveland-cavaliers/1774968002/

You think a trade is cooking?

Edit: can't be it bc I believe he can't be traded yet right? Chinook thanks.

[Chinook]

You think a trade is cooking? I loved Evans, I wanted him as a FA.

Evans can't be traded until 12/15, so no, there's nothing cooking on that front.

[DAF86]

The Magic defense is 3 pts worse when Simmons gets into the game. Quite the defender he is.

[RC_Drunkford]

luckily there will be plenty of SFs in next years free agency. If we can somehow manage to open up cap space by moving Gasol and maybe even Mills or Bertans/Belinelli I would love if we make a run at Kelly Oubre and Stanley Johnson who are both 22 years old (would fit the timeline of our new young core) and are also RFA's. Especially Johnson should come cheap. I don't know how high Oubre's price would be and if Pop would want a player of his character around.

Ariza, Demare Carroll and Danny Green are FA's as well

[SAGirl]

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2018/10/26/indiana-pacers-guard-tyreke-evans-out-game-against-cleveland-cavaliers/1774968002/


Evans can't be traded until 12/15, so no, there's nothing cooking on that front.
Well turns out San Antonio is not the only one that's like the army.

Indiana detailing Evans to cleaning floors or something... On detention. :lol
1055941250849873921

[spurraider21]

:lmao using a 4 game sample size... simmons can bring something to a basketball team. brandon paul doesn't. simmons playing too big a role will be exposed... that's what happened with patty too. patty always played well in his microwave role. he got exposed when we started playing him absurd minutes.

brandon paul isn't an NBA talent

[DAF86]

Don't know who you taking about, but if it's me, I'm using 4 seasons of sample size with Simmons, tbh.

[Chinook]

:lmao using a 4 game sample size...

Are you serious? You're way too active on this forum to not know the Simmons thread that was bumped all last year where we went over his numbers for his whole career. He's NEVER been good. He's always been a flashy guy with a negative impact.

:lol at you acting like Orlando was trying to put Simmons in some big role. They weren't. He's like a consistent fourth option and is shitty at it.

[spurraider21]

Don't know who you taking about, but if it's me, I'm using 4 seasons of sample size with Simmons, tbh.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jonathon+Simmons&player_id1_select=Jonathon+Simmons&y1=2019&player_id1=simmojo02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Bryn+Forbes&player_id2_select=Bryn+Forbes&y2=2019&player_id2=forbebr01&idx=players&player_id3_hint=Patty+Mills&player_id3_select=Patty+Mills&y3=2019&player_id3=millspa02&idx=players&player_id4_hint=Brandon+Paul&player_id4_select=Brandon+Paul&y4=2018&player_id4=paulbr01&idx=players

Simmons has been effin' terrible this year (like absolutely as bad as Patty). I'd much rather than Paul right now than Jon.

[spurraider21]

Are you serious? You're way too active on this forum to not know the Simmons thread that was bumped all last year where we went over his numbers for his whole career. He's NEVER been good. He's always been a flashy guy with a negative impact.

:lol at you acting like Orlando was trying to put Simmons in some big role. They weren't. He's like a consistent fourth option and is shitty at it.
huh? he averaged over 29 minutes per game last year, coming off seasons averaging 15 and 18 minutes with the spurs. he led the magic in minutes played for the entire season :lmao

his usage was also marginally higher last year than his spurs years

[Chinook]

huh? he averaged over 29 minutes per game last year, coming off seasons averaging 15 and 18 minutes with the spurs. he led the magic in minutes played for the entire season :lmao

his usage was also marginally higher last year than his spurs years

So his usage was only a little better on an injury-riddled team than it was on a contending team where he was a clear 8th-10th man? That doesn't sound like someone who was doing more. He just played more than guys who missed 25-plus games last year.

[spurraider21]

So his usage was only a little better on an injury-riddled team than it was on a contending team where he was a clear 8th-10th man? That doesn't sound like someone who was doing more. He just played more than guys who missed 25-plus games last year.
being a 20% usage player for 15 mpg is very different than being a 20% usage player for 30 mpg

[Chinook]

being a 20% usage player for 15 mpg is very different than being a 20% usage player for 30 mpg

Yeah, I guess Simmons got tired more often? We're not talking about a guy whose efficiency dropped a little. We're talking about a dude who failed to impact games positively despite his athleticism and highlight plays. As bad as the Magic were, they were better without him. That says a lot, especially for someone who said he felt stifled with his previous team.

[Fusternino]

I still think Otto Porter Jr. could be had since Grunfield is a horrible GM (I'm from MD, I would know), the Wizards already have a million SFs and no real depth at other positions, and they are way over the cap so have no real way of fixing this outside of trades.

Him playing with Wall and Beal his whole career has really deflated his stats. He would break out with the Spurs.

[RC_Drunkford]

I want Middleton and Millsap as a forward duo. Sign Stanley Johnson and let him work on his shot with chip

[r0drig0lac]

Chris Singleton would be a good option

[mo7888]

I still think Otto Porter Jr. could be had since Grunfield is a horrible GM (I'm from MD, I would know), the Wizards already have a million SFs and no real depth at other positions, and they are way over the cap so have no real way of fixing this outside of trades.

Him playing with Wall and Beal his whole career has really deflated his stats. He would break out with the Spurs.

The wizards will most likely be sellers a and they'll probably fall in love with oubre.

[TD 21]

I still think Otto Porter Jr. could be had since Grunfield is a horrible GM (I'm from MD, I would know), the Wizards already have a million SFs and no real depth at other positions, and they are way over the cap so have no real way of fixing this outside of trades.

Him playing with Wall and Beal his whole career has really deflated his stats. He would break out with the Spurs.

Agreed. Gasol, Mills (preferably) or Gay, lottery protected '19 1st, probably gets it done. The Wizards would gain a lot of cap relief, a useful rotational piece (either of which they could use) and a pick.

If the Spurs could give up their Mills fetish, Porter's bloated salary could be viewed in this light: Instead of paying Mills, Gasol's quasi-expiring and the MLE on an SF over the next 2-3 years, it would all essentially be consolidated into one much needed player.

They have enough young, inexpensive depth for it, none of them are due to get paid in the next 2 years and Porter's 3rd year is a p/o. At that point, they could try to get him to pull a Jefferson: opt out and secure more long term money at a more palatable average annual value.

[gambit1990]

wrong thread.

[anonymouse]

2 words. Nassir Little. Get him at all cost. Tank the season. Trade whoever. Got megastar written all over him. NBA ready with length, 3s and bbiq. Makes kawhi look like a chump if he doesn't already. LeBron level.

You heard it here first.

[RC_Drunkford]

2 words. Nassir Little. Get him at all cost. Tank the season. Trade whoever. Got megastar written all over him. NBA ready with length, 3s and bbiq. Makes kawhi look like a chump if he doesn't already. LeBron level.

You heard it here first.

He screams after he dunks. Pop would never draft him

[anonymouse]

Pop will tame him. If not, time for someone to retire...

[DAF86]

Fucking Rudy Gay goes out and the cards castle goes to shit. :lol

I'm so glad PATFO thought Bellinelli was the player we were needing during the offseason. :lmao

[DAF86]

Having to start Dante fucking Cunningham because you didn't realize in time that you didn't have a single decent wing on your roster. :lmao:lmao:lmao

[Mugen]

Nahhhhhhh homie, the Spurs zig when the league zags... what a job done by PATFO

[K...]

also having only one nba level big sucks. Gasol "i need to rest" isn't going to cut it, especially when LMA goes full diva like tonight

[DAF86]

If Manu would have stayed, he would be the closest thing we would have to a 3 and D wing. Have you realized that? :lol

[Mugen]

Don't forget RC paying Masai 5mil to get fucking bent over :lmao

[DAF86]

Don't forget RC paying Masai 5mil to get fucking bent over :lmao

Wait, what? Did we also have to send money consideration to the Raptors?

[Mugen]

Wait, what? Did we also have to send money consideration to the Raptors?

Not sure if serious, my dude. But RC had to shell out 5mil for the right to toss Masai and Dennis' salad tbh.

[Kurgan]

Wait, what? Did we also have to send money consideration to the Raptors?

Yeah, to make the salaries match. If Kawhi resigns with Toronto, it probably goes down as one of the worst trades in NBA history. Thankfully, he won't.

[SAGirl]

Pop will tame him. If not, time for someone to retire...
That avatar is just hilarious. Keep it.

[ace3g]

Might be able to obtain one during the Wizard's inevitable fire sale.

[r0drig0lac]

with the lack of size and physicality in the wings (specifically in sf) patfo should have signed Shabazz

[SpursDynasty85]

Might be able to obtain one during the Wizard's inevitable fire sale.

Butler, Beal, Oubre, and Porter all potentially for sale. Any one of then would be nice. I could see all them staying put until trade deadline except Butlee though. We shall see.

[sasaint]

Butler, Beal, Oubre, and Porter all potentially for sale. Any one of then would be nice. I could see all them staying put until trade deadline except Butlee though. We shall see.

Posters here focus on Porter, but I would rather try for Oubre. He would be much cheaper, with great potential.

[BackHome]

i agree

[J_Paco]

Butler, Beal, Oubre, and Porter all potentially for sale. Any one of then would be nice. I could see all them staying put until trade deadline except Butlee though. We shall see.

I think you mean Troy Brown since there isn't anyone named Butler currently on the Wizards.

I doubt they'd offload someone on a rookie scale deal when they have Oubre (impending free agent) and Porter making or going to make a lot more.

[SpursDynasty85]

I think you mean Troy Brown since there isn't anyone named Butler currently on the Wizards.

I doubt they'd offload someone on a rookie scale deal when they have Oubre (impending free agent) and Porter making or going to make a lot more.

I was talking about Jimmy Butler. Most of those names are on the Wizards but I was just speaking to the overall number of quality SFs that were basically on sale right now.

[sasaint]

I was talking about Jimmy Butler. Most of those names are on the Wizards but I was just speaking to the overall number of quality SFs that were basically on sale right now.

Butler may be "for sale" right now, but not "on sale" or he wouldn't still be in Minny.

[SpursDynasty85]

Butler may be "for sale" right now, but not "on sale" or he wouldn't still be in Minny.

Still the closer it gets to the trade deadline the likely a something might get done at a lower price. Rockets is the only significant offer i've heard and those are just draft picks spread out over many years. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Market is softening for Butler I think. Not many teams want him unless they become contenders (he is older and costs a lot of money) and the rebuilding teams don't want to give up their young talent and picks.

[sasaint]

Still the closer it gets to the trade deadline the likely a something might get done at a lower price. Rockets is the only significant offer i've heard and those are just draft picks spread out over many years. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Market is softening for Butler I think. Not many teams want him unless they become contenders (he is older and costs a lot of money) and the rebuilding teams don't want to give up their young talent and picks.

No doubt Minny agrees that the market is soft. You failed to mention that, besides his contract, his antics have depressed his market value plenty. All moot as far as the Spurs are concerned; pretty sure he is a pariah to Pop.

[FireMicoHalili]

Posters here focus on Porter, but I would rather try for Oubre. He would be much cheaper, with great potential.
he's an IG baller so definitely not PATFO's type. If anyone could be had that the Spurs are likelier to covet it would be Porter or Markieff.

[sasaint]

he's an IG baller so definitely not PATFO's type. If anyone could be had that the Spurs are likelier to covet it would be Porter or Markieff.

You think PATFO could get over the Morris brothers' past?

[SpursDynasty85]

No doubt Minny agrees that the market is soft. You failed to mention that, besides his contract, his antics have depressed his market value plenty. All moot as far as the Spurs are concerned; pretty sure he is a pariah to Pop.

Maybe. I think he is overrated as a superstar. He is solid in every facet but not transcendent. I think Derozan and him are on similar levels because Derozan just has an it factor with him even though Butler has more tools. What helps is Butler md Detrozan are good friends. It probably won’t happen but it’s a small possibility

[Fusternino]

If we had to do a same # number of players swap for OPJ, what would it be? Mills/Gasol/pick for OPJ/Satoransky?

[venitian navigator]

If we had to do a same # number of players swap for OPJ, what would it be? Mills/Gasol/pick for OPJ/Satoransky?

IT WORKS ON NBA TRADE MACHINE...

[J_Paco]

Unless Poetl pulls his head out of his ass or LaMarcus' legs look 5 years younger; trading away Gasol would create a huge hole at center. Don't get me wrong, Porter (although over paid) would be a solid third/fourth wheel (once DeJounte returns next season) and 3-and-D wing the team desperately needs.

[tbdog]

Gasol is playing well and he works well with LMA on offense. Look how LMA couldn't get going without Gasol feeding him gimmies against the Heat. Pop playing Gasol in the second unit and on lower minutes is really the perfect role and Gasol is now one of the best bigs off the bench in the league. The issue is his 16mil p/y contract.

[ace3g]

Every time the Spurs lose, I get to bump this thread.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcMgt3JQDxw

[SAGirl]

Every time the Spurs lose, I get to bump this thread.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcMgt3JQDxw
Bump

[r0drig0lac]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/251682/Wizards-Ready-To-Discuss-John-Wall-Bradley-Beal-Trade
it's time

[Chinook]

Alternate Universe Time:

Let's say the Spurs did have a deal on the table for Kemba that did not involve Leonard or Green (I do think Danny was a necessary part of any Walker trade, but you never know). Let's also say that Philly was willing to do Saric, Covington and 10th for Leonard (very likely). With those assumptions fixed, let's consider the following scenario:

-- Trade Leonard to Philly for 10, Saric and Covington
-- Trade 10, Mills and Murray to Charlotte for Kemba
-- Draft Walker and Metu just like in real life
-- Re-sign Gay, Anderson and Parker (all other free agents from the team let go)
-- Sign Belinelli, Cunningham and Milutinov ($10M/3)
-- Ginobili still retires

That scenario leads to the following roster:

PG: Walker, Parker, White
SG: Green, Belinelli, Walker
SF: Covington, Gay, Cunningham
PF: Anderson, Saric, Metu
C: Aldridge, Gasol, Milutinov

That roster would actually be well under the tax threshold and could afford to bring back every player from the rotation other than Gasol provided Pau was waived and stretched. They'd even have left enough to sign an LLE player or to re-sign Cunningham. If guys are willing to give a bit back (this supposes Kemba getting a full max, so there's room for guys to give up a couple million here or there), they'd even have enough to try to work something out with Gasol to keep him for a final year. It's a sustainable roster is the point I'm making here. They'd be able to mix and match under the tax for four or five years without trouble. With guys like Walker and Metu on the roster and with the team having all their future picks, they should be able to maintain a pipeline of talent, off-setting role-players they have to let walk in the future.

The real question, though, is how viable that roster would be against elite teams. I don't doubt that the team would have a top defense with three elite defenders in addition to a lack of a good deal of their liabilities. They could also have an elite bench if the second unit gelled correctly. A lot of passing, decent shooting and some nice one-on-one scoring ability. They wouldn't have any more star power than they do now, however; though they would have the contracts and assets left over to make a bid for a third star if one were available on trade market. Failing that, I'd see their ceiling as WCF team that would need a Warriors injury to win a title. They'd be really dependent on Aldridge and Walker consistently playing well, and as this year is showing, that can't be counted on for the latter. We'll see if Kemba can keep up his tear for the rest of the season.

[TD 21]

Saric would start over Anderson and Gay would be the nominal backup PF.

Of course that team is much better than the garbage one they've put together because it actually makes sense (other than the top 4 forwards and Gasol all probably being unhappy with their minutes). They'd still lack a secondary play maker in the starting lineup, but they'd be loaded with valuable archetypes (elite pull up 3-point shooting primary ball handler, multiple 3 and D wings, play making PF's) and depth.

As I've said countless times though, even going the route they did, had they just not signed Belinelli, instead signed more of a 3 and D type (Robinson, Ennis, Graham, etc.), while insisting that the Raptors take Gasol instead of Green, they could have somewhat salvaged their current predicament.

[JakeCuenca]

Man if the spurs got Anunoby in the trade instead of Jakob theyd probably be a 50 win team even without murray. The Guy is the prototypical elite role player wing.

But i suppose popvich can be popvich.

[Mr. Body]

Man if the spurs got Anunoby in the trade instead of Jakob theyd probably be a 50 win team even without murray. The Guy is the prototypical elite role player wing.

But i suppose popvich can be popvich.

Yeah, it's too bad they couldn't have pulled him.

[ace3g]

bump

[ace3g]

bump

[ace3g]

bump

[ace3g]

bump

[ace3g]

bump

[JeffDuncan]

Truly.

[spin8]

https://twitter.com/marchmadness/status/1070562923637075968

[r0drig0lac]

https://twitter.com/marchmadness/status/1070562923637075968

meh, Pop will probably draft Bol Bol, Morant (the only dwarf quoted to go in the lottery), or Doumbouya (which by playing in Europe is a complete unknown)

[ace3g]

I should bump this twice for losing to the Bulls. Dunn hits a jumper over our smallest player on the court... Patty shouldn't even be out there defensively especially after a timeout.

[BackHome]

Rui is a PF not a SF.

[timtonymanu]

:cry but we have Rudy Gay and Quincy Pondexter

[RC_Drunkford]

with Ariza and Oubre off the table, does anybody see any trade targets besides Demarre Carroll?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

with Ariza and Oubre off the table, does anybody see any trade targets besides Demarre Carroll?

Apparently Pistons have kind of given up on Stanley Johnson and the Spurs are known to have shown interest in him before. Pistons are in the same boat as Washington were with Oubre - they have a lot of salary committed for next season already and are unlikely to be able to keep him. Oubre didn't cost much so I can't imagine the price for Johnson would be higher. The problem is a trade with the Spurs would be complicated cause of the cap situation of both teams ( hard capped ) but it's doable and I hope the Toronto pick + fillers would be a good deal for Pistons.

Now, his advanced stats suck but he's young and could probably develop into a PJ Tucker type if developed. One problem is that a very similar player in Justice Winslow got 3yr/40mil contract , so not sure if the Spurs could be ready to match a similar offer for Johnson and next summer there'll be a lot of teams with cash to throw around.

[RC_Drunkford]

Apparently Pistons have kind of given up on Stanley Johnson and the Spurs are known to have shown interest in him before. Pistons are in the same boat as Washington were with Oubre - they have a lot of salary committed for next season already and are unlikely to be able to keep him. Oubre didn't cost much so I can't imagine the price for Johnson would be higher. The problem is a trade with the Spurs would be complicated cause of the cap situation of both teams ( hard capped ) but it's doable and I hope the Toronto pick + fillers would be a good deal for Pistons.

Now, his advanced stats suck but he's young and could probably develop into a PJ Tucker type if developed. One problem is that a very similar player in Justice Winslow got 3yr/40mil contract , so not sure if the Spurs could be ready to match a similar offer for Johnson and next summer there'll be a lot of teams with cash to throw around.

True I been saying he's probably one of their offseason targets and they must think Chip can fix his shot. I'm just not sure which player we could send their way that they would want

[Coach X]

I like Stanley Johnson, that would be a great addition to the roster. A valuable piece the Spurs doesn't have now.

[TD 21]

I like Stanley Johnson, that would be a great addition to the roster. A valuable piece the Spurs doesn't have now.

For the Raptors 1st, Cunningham and Pondexter, I'd be down. The chances of his becoming a Tucker or Crowder (Celtics version) type are greater than that pick turning into commensurate value.

I know he's been a disappointment so far, but there's a dearth of players with his physical tools and volume 3-point shooting. The Spurs' supposed interest as recently as last season suggests Engelleand is confident in helping him turn that volume into a decent or better percentage.

The Pistons are in a difficult situation financially and between that and him not living up to his draft position, might want to re-set the clock and get out in front of a potential offer sheet. They'll be more money floating around than last off season and one of the many teams who need his type and can't attract front line talent might take a flier.

[8FOR!3]

Stanley Johnson is not a good basketball player. I would rather go after Justin Holiday for a higher price

[TD 21]

Stanley Johnson is not a good basketball player. I would rather go after Justin Holiday for a higher price

Holiday is significantly older and far too light in the pants to jostle with big wings. Spurs' need is more of a combo forward than wing.

[mo7888]

I wouldn't give a 1st for SJ. Oubre went for an expiring contract that a good locker room presence and he's better than SJ. I'd take a flyer on him if I could get him cheap.

[TD 21]

Oubre went for an expiring, but a useful, valued player, who they clearly intend to re-sign.

It's debatable whether Oubre is better than Johnson or not, but Oubre's build is more like Holiday's. Going forward, Murray, Walker and White all project as decent or better defenders against wings/guards.

[timvp]

I'm on the Stanley Johnson bandwagon. Perfect build for the type of SF the Spurs need. Moves his feet well -- his combination of size, strength and quickness actually had Nephew really struggling to score against him, for one example. Bad three-point shooter accuracy-wise so far but he can get them off without issue and his form appears to be fixable. Can rebound. He's still only 22 so his upside remains intriguing.

I'd do SJ for Cunningham, Pondexter and the Raptors first in a hot second. Fills a need now and is the type of player you want going forward. The main risk with SJ is that someone will overpay him before the Spurs are ready to commit long-term. The upside is he provides an upgrade over Cunningham right away and eventually becomes a defensive stopper at multiple positions while bombing away from beyond the three-point line on the other end.

[RC_Drunkford]

He shouldn't be expensive to resign since he doesn't have 3-point shot and is an RFA. I'm assuming he can be had for MLE money. I been saying they should and will probably go after him in the offseason since he's on Dejounte's timeline, but if they can get him in a trade they should do it. Once he becomes consistent from 3 he would be a key player

[ace3g]

I'm on the Stanley Johnson bandwagon. Perfect build for the type of SF the Spurs need. Moves his feet well -- his combination of size, strength and quickness actually had Nephew really struggling to score against him, for one example. Bad three-point shooter accuracy-wise so far but he can get them off without issue and his form appears to be fixable. Can rebound. He's still only 22 so his upside remains intriguing.

I'd do SJ for Cunningham, Pondexter and the Raptors first in a hot second. Fills a need now and is the type of player you want going forward. The main risk with SJ is that someone will overpay him before the Spurs are ready to commit long-term. The upside is he provides an upgrade over Cunningham right away and eventually becomes a defensive stopper at multiple positions while bombing away from beyond the three-point line on the other end.

Couldn't have said it any better, SJ is the ideal mold for today's SF and fits a need (defensively) for the Spurs.

I always call back to this story about SJ

https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/967208878831226881

[phxspurfan]

we need to get Tobias, by whatever means necessary. Including LMA or Demar for him + LouWill.

[ace3g]

Imagine a closing lineup of DeRozan, SJ, Bertans, Gay, and Aldridge/Jakob.

[mo7888]

Oubre went for an expiring, but a useful, valued player, who they clearly intend to re-sign.


Washington won't be able to resign him unless they can unload OPJ, they are in cap he'll with the wall extension kicking in.

[RC_Drunkford]

Imagine a closing lineup of DeRozan, SJ, Bertans, Gay, and Aldridge/Jakob.

Imagine a line up of Murray, White, Walker, Johnson, Poeltl where the oldest player is 23

[SpurSpike]

Think the Lakers would trade Kentavious Caldwell-Pope for Belinelli? They need shooters, right? Do you think KCP would agree to come here (he is on a one year bird and would have to agree to the trade)?

Would feel weird trading with the Lakers but iv always liked KCP's game and i think both teams win the trade.

[RC_Drunkford]

Think the Lakers would trade Kentavious Caldwell-Pope for Belinelli? They need shooters, right? Do you think KCP would agree to come here (he is on a one year bird and would have to agree to the trade)?

Would feel weird trading with the Lakers but iv always liked KCP's game and i think both teams win the trade.

doesn't work cap wise, we'd have to include another 6-7 million

[RC_Drunkford]

Terrence Ross is drawing interest from multiple teams and the Magic are looking for a PG. Man how I wish Pop would get over himself and trade Mills for Ross expiring. Would work without a problem numbers wise and improve the team + salary cap situation

[marinoman]

According to windhorst on the jump right now nets are going to be buyers not sellers for draft picks so don’t count on gasol and a pick for carroll

[Fusternino]

I'm gonna take a controversial stance and say we should trade for Danilo and try to get 2 assets alongside him in the process.

[mo7888]

I'm gonna take a controversial stance and say we should trade for Danilo and try to get 2 assets alongside him in the process.

Giving up what? and what 2 assets would we get back alongside him?

[dbestpro]

Cunningham and White gets Johnson.

[Fusternino]

Giving up what? and what 2 assets would we get back alongside him?

Mills and Gasol for Danilo, Harrell, and Robinson.

Actually, that's a terrible trade for both teams.

[RC_Drunkford]

Cunningham and White gets Johnson.

you don't trade White. Especially when you can sign Johnson in free agency. I'm not sure what Detroit is looking for tbh

[TD 21]

Washington won't be able to resign him unless they can unload OPJ, they are in cap he'll with the wall extension kicking in.

Maybe so, but I suspect acquiring him was step 1 of a 2 step process, which will include dumping Porter Jr. either by the deadline or in the offseason.

[Namundy]

Lol that Eubanks bench reaction.

[ace3g]

Hopefully Spurs get SJ before the Pelicans do.

https://twitter.com/Sportando/status/1075709320124354560

[Chinook]

Really think the obsession with Stan is out of control. Dude hasn't been a good player in the NBA. He's been mostly terrible offensively, and hasn't played D nearly good enough to make up for it. I could get wanting him if he got bought out, like with Corey Brewer back in the day. I could even see something like Beli and Pon for Bullock and Johnson. But giving up a first-rounder? Nah. At least give Ben Moore some games first to show he can't come in and do as much as Stan can. There will be good players available in the late-first. PATFO didn't get to make a trade for Johnson a couple of years ago, and they have Derrick White as a result. I'd rather them find a good player like maybe Wilkes and have four years and a solid developmental plan.

[Coach X]

Now the team is working well and winning but until Gasol returns we won't know what will be the final rotation. Then we have to play some good teams in full strength and see what happens and then it will be clear what the roster exactly needs. I think all this will happen in the next weeks so PATFO will have in time the necessary info in order to work on potential trades.

Forbes is making his shots but Marco, Davis too and White is showing he deserves to play starter minutes. Brynn biggest contribution is scoring, just the area of the game best covered in this team. To me, it makes sense to take advantage of his market value and trade him for a physical and defensive player. I'd add Toronto's pick as Spurs still have his own 1st round and, what it's more important to me, they already have a handful of young players to develop in the mid/long term, being 3 of these players guards as well.

The Spurs could probably look for a physical forward, able to play good defense and important minutes at the SF-PF. This player would fill Cunningham's role, making him dispensable. So that could be a reasonable pack: Forbes, Cunningham and Toronto's pick. What can Bufford get for that?

[Fusternino]

I still think we can wait until after the season to move both picks and Forbes to get Sekou at the 10-12 position.

[sasaint]

Really think the obsession with Stan is out of control. Dude hasn't been a good player in the NBA. He's been mostly terrible offensively, and hasn't played D nearly good enough to make up for it. I could get wanting him if he got bought out, like with Corey Brewer back in the day. I could even see something like Beli and Pon for Bullock and Johnson. But giving up a first-rounder? Nah. At least give Ben Moore some games first to show he can't come in and do as much as Stan can. There will be good players available in the late-first. PATFO didn't get to make a trade for Johnson a couple of years ago, and they have Derrick White as a result. I'd rather them find a good player like maybe Wilkes and have four years and a solid developmental plan.

:tu Desperation wears rose-colored glasses. Stanley is not worth a first-round pick.

[ace3g]

I don't think it will take a 1st round pick to get SJ anyway.

[RC_Drunkford]

wouldn't make sense since he's expiring. Forbes and a 2nd rounder maybe. But that would also mean that either Mills has to start or DeRozan moves back to SG. With Derrick White not being much of an offensive threat that could create problems. Especially when Johnson is also not a good shooter. I see them rather moving Gasol since he's been out and the team really doesn't need a 3rd big at this point.

[r0drig0lac]

I still think we can wait until after the season to move both picks and Forbes to get Sekou at the 10-12 position.

nah

[NASpurs]

What about this trade suggested by BR, would you do it?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2811586-nba-trade-ideas-off-latest-buzz-deals-for-carmelo-anthony-jeremy-lin-jr-smith

Detroit Pistons Receive: Wayne Ellington

Miami Heat Receive: Bryn Forbes, Henry Ellenson

San Antonio Spurs Receive: Stanley Johnson, 2019 second-round pick (via Detroit)

Making mid-year trades is not the Spurs' style. The last deal they struck in-season was the legendary Nando de Colo-for-Austin Daye swap of...February 2014. They're overdue for a wintertime shakeup.

Heck, the Western Conference's overcrowded playoff race essentially demands one. Fourteen million of 15 teams fancy themselves playoff hopefuls at the moment, and FiveThirtyEight (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2019-nba-predictions/) gives the Spurs a sub-10 percent chance of cracking the postseason.

Stanley Johnson doesn't solve everything, but he caught their eye last February, per The Athletic's Michael Scotto (https://theathletic.com/229016/2018/02/01/scotto-breaking-down-the-nba-trade-deadline-possibilities-team-by-team/). He should be more gettable now. His restricted free agency is on the horizon, he still can't shoot, and Detroit has cut his minutes from last season. San Antonio can hope to reinvent his jumper, but his defensive portability alone plugs a gaping void.

Fresh off his return from a left knee injury, Johnson dropped 20 points on a tidy 8-of-14 shooting in a Dec. 17 loss to the Milwaukee Bucks. The Pistons know better than to read into his performance. They rank 29th in three-point accuracy overall (32.5 percent (https://stats.nba.com/teams/traditional/?sort=FG3_PCT&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateTo=12%2F19%2F2018)) and 28th when firing off the catch (33.3 percent (https://stats.nba.com/teams/catch-shoot/?sort=CATCH_SHOOT_FG3_PCT&dir=1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateTo=12%2F19%2F2019)). Wayne Ellington is canning more than 37 percent of his triples and shooting slightly better on spot-up looks (37.5 percent (https://stats.nba.com/players/catch-shoot/?CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*wayne&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateTo=12%2F19%2F2018))

One Eastern Conference executive told The Athletic's Jordan Brenner (https://theathletic.com/714293/2018/12/17/the-prescription-anthony-davis-has-the-pelicans-brass-in-fight-or-flight-mode-heres-a-plan-to-make-sure-the-team-keeps-their-all-world-big-man/) that Detroit might "give Johnson away," so the structure of this deal should suffice. Ellington is an offensive boomstick who doesn't vault the Pistons into the luxury tax, and they don't need to view this as a partial-season investment. His Bird rights won't transfer if he approves a move—he has an implicit no-trade clause—but they don't need them. Non-Bird rights on a $6.3 million salary should be enough to retain him.

Miami is without question fielding other offers for Ellington. The Lakers are among those who have a crush on him, according to Sporting News' Sean Deveney (http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-trade-rumors-lakers-search-for-depth-goes-beyond-trevor-ariza-sn-sources-say/g7s7347ib3nj1dviucjfibkon). His rumor mill should increase tenfold with Goran Dragic expected to miss the next two months following right knee surgery, per ESPN.com's Adrian Wojnarowski (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25573271/goran-dragic-miami-heat-expected-miss-8-weeks)

Most teams would take this as a sign to throw in the towel. The Heat aren't most teams. President Pat Riley turns 74 in March and will forever believe he can a pull a rabbit out of his hair-gel tub. (Though, if he's vibing a teardown, he should totally offer Ellington and Josh Richardson to the Philadelphia 76ers for Markelle Fultz and all the first-round picks, including Miami's own 2021 selection.)

Bryn Forbes helps steady the ship in Dragic's absence and costs next to nothing next year. The Heat have other ball-handlers, but no one who thrives as a from-scratch creator. Even with a recent downtick, Forbes is posting a 50.4 effective field-goal percentage on pull-up jumpers—a top-10 mark among 67 players (https://stats.nba.com/players/pullup/?CF=PULL_UP_FGA*GE*4&sort=PULL_UP_EFG_PCT&dir=1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DateTo=12%2F19%2F2018) averaging at least four such shots per game.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Miami can easily do better for Ellington, also they're very unlikely to add any salary commitments on top of their own terrible cap situation.

Would snap their hands off if I'm Spurs FO.