‘Yes, I’m Running as a Socialist.’

[RandomGuy]

HOUSTON — There was no question on primary night in Texas last month that Franklin Bynum would win the Democratic nomination to become a criminal court judge in Houston. The 34-year-old defense attorney had no challengers.

But for his supporters who packed into a Mexican restaurant that evening, there was still something impressive to celebrate. Many in the crowd were members of the Democratic Socialists of America, or D.S.A., a group that has experienced an enormous surge of interest since the election of President Trump, even in conservative states. And Mr. Bynum was one of their own — a socialist who, along with at least 16 others, appeared on the ballot in primary races across the state of Texas.

“Yes, I’m running as a socialist,” Mr. Bynum said. “I’m a far-left candidate. What I’m trying to do is be a Democrat who actually stands for something, and tells people, ‘Here’s how we are going to materially improve conditions in your life.’”

Rather than shy away from being called a socialist, a word conservatives have long wielded as a slur, candidates like Mr. Bynum are embracing the label. He is among dozens of D.S.A. members running in this fall’s midterms for offices across the country at nearly every level. In Hawaii, Kaniela Ing, a state representative, is running for Congress. Gayle McLaughlin, a former mayor of Richmond, Calif., is running to be the state’s lieutenant governor. In Tennessee, Dennis Prater, an adjunct professor at East Tennessee State University, is running to be a county commissioner.

Supporters, many of them millennials, say they are drawn by D.S.A.’s promise to combat income inequality, which they believe is tainting every facet of American life, from the criminal justice system to medical care to politics. They argue that capitalism has let them down, saddling them with student debt, high rent and uncertain job prospects. And they have been frustrated by the Democratic Party, which they say has lost touch with working people.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/20/us/dsa-socialism-candidates-midterms.html

[RandomGuy]

Outrage over rising inequality has simmered for years, erupting into the Occupy Wall Street movement and the groundswell of support for Senator Bernie Sanders, a self-described democratic socialist. But it was the election of Mr. Trump that convinced tens of thousands that both parties were broken and that the country was in need of a radical fix.

Since November 2016, D.S.A.’s membership has increased from about 5,000 to 35,000 nationwide. The number of local groups has grown from 40 to 181, including 10 in Texas. Houston’s once-dormant chapter now has nearly 300 members.

“We want to see money stop controlling everything. That includes politics,” said Amy Zachmeyer, 34, a union organizer who helped revive the moribund Houston chapter. “That just resonates with millennials who are making less money than their parents did, are less able to buy a home and drowning in student debt.”

Ms. Zachmeyer, who pays about $1,000 a month in student loans, says that financial burden helped convince her to become a socialist.

Studies suggest that young people with few memories of the Cold War embrace socialism far more than older people do. A 2016 survey of 18- to 29-year-olds by Harvard’s Institute of Politics found that 16 percent identified as socialists, while 33 percent supported socialism. Only 42 percent supported capitalism, while a majority — 51 percent — said they did not.

Those results surprised John Della Volpe, the institute’s director of polling, so much that he thought they might be a mistake. He conducted a new study, this time of the general population, and got the same result.

“The only group that expressed net positive support for capitalism were people over 50 years old,” he said. “The largest generation of Americans in history — millennials — have lost confidence. They are interested in finding a better way.”

Many socialist candidates sound less like revolutionaries and more like traditional Democrats who seek a return to policies in the mold of President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal. They want single-payer health care, a higher minimum wage, and greater protections for unions. But others advocate more extreme changes, such as abolishing the prison system. In the case of Mr. Bynum, he wants an end to a cash bail system that requires people accused of crimes, even minor offenses, to pay money to be released from jail before trial.

(same article)

[sickdsm]

I was on a reading kick on Democratic socialism the last few weeks. Every pro site used the explanation of a co-op to explain it. As a farmer,I have more first hand experience than most with coops. Outdated, inefficient, joke of a business compared to a private business every time. I can't get past that, since they say that like it's a compliment. I have more I wouldn't mind discussing but on a trip right now.

[CosmicCowboy]

Bitch actually admitted that her loan debt "made her" a socialist. Boo fucking hoo. :lol

[boutons_deux]

I was on a reading kick on Democratic socialism the last few weeks. Every pro site used the explanation of a co-op to explain it. As a farmer,I have more first hand experience than most with coops. Outdated, inefficient, joke of a business compared to a private business every time. I can't get past that, since they say that like it's a compliment. I have more I wouldn't mind discussing but on a trip right now.

social democracy is not just coops

[spurraider21]

**** admitted that her loan debt "made her" a socialist. :lol
politics are typically a mixture of principle and self interest

[Chris]

I thought this thread would be about Bernie.

[RandomGuy]

Bitch actually admitted that her loan debt "made her" a socialist. Boo fucking hoo. :lol

Outside your echo chamber, most young people I talk to are chafing at the "slavery" of student loan debt, because that is essentially what it has become.

The Europeans I talk to can only shake their head at impoverishing people who go to college for years.

We need to stop stealing from the poor to give to the rich.

[CosmicCowboy]

College is ridiculously expensive but that is hardly stealing from the poor to give to the rich.

[RandomGuy]

College is ridiculously expensive but that is hardly stealing from the poor to give to the rich.

The wealthy own the companies that charge the interest, and get to charge that for a decade, even through bankruptcy.

The same goes for just about every other business in this country.

When the largest corporations have substantial portions of their workforce on government food assistance, while at the same time those corporations funnel record profits into stock buybacks...

Shit's broken man. The world you grew up on is long gone.

[RandomGuy]

772422941715890176

[RandomGuy]

College is ridiculously expensive but that is hardly stealing from the poor to give to the rich.

772421140807581696

[RandomGuy]

College is ridiculously expensive but that is hardly stealing from the poor to give to the rich.

772571088794554369

[CosmicCowboy]

What poor job market? Unemployment is at historic lows.

[RandomGuy]

772495778401189892

heh

[RandomGuy]

What poor job market? Unemployment is at historic lows.

Clueless.

Honestly, I could explain it to you, but meh. I'm kinda tired of trying to show you how the world has changed.

LOL open mind.

You have google, same as I do. If you don't understand how it's different, go find out. Take some personal responsibility for informing yourself.

[SpursforSix]

politics are typically a mixture of principle and self interest

Ding. And over time, I think the order reverses.

Just like in real life, at the end of the day, most people are going to go whichever way has the best chance of increasing their net worth.

Or in cases of the extremely wealthy, whatever boosts their ego the most.

[Chris]

Clueless.

Honestly, I could explain it to you, but meh. I'm kinda tired of trying to show you how the world has changed.

LOL open mind.

You have google, same as I do. If you don't understand how it's different, go find out. Take some personal responsibility for informing yourself.

RandomGoogleGuy is woke AF get on his level breh

[rmt]

Outside your echo chamber, most young people I talk to are chafing at the "slavery" of student loan debt, because that is essentially what it has become.

The Europeans I talk to can only shake their head at impoverishing people who go to college for years.

We need to stop stealing from the poor to give to the rich.

Nobody forced her to take on what was probably a $86k loan (at 7% interest for 10 years = $998 per month). Cry me a river. Go to cc and local university or maybe the cc offers bachelor's like MDC.

http://www.mdc.edu/academics/programs/bachelors.aspx

You may graduate without any debt at all. That’s the case for 93% of our students.

https://www.dollartimes.com/loans/mortgage-rate.php?length=10&amount=150000 (plug in $86000 and 7% interest)

[spurraider21]

Nobody forced her to take on what was probably a $86k loan (at 7% interest for 10 years = $998 per month). Cry me a river. Go to cc and local university or maybe the cc offers bachelor's like MDC.

http://www.mdc.edu/academics/programs/bachelors.aspx

You may graduate without any debt at all. That’s the case for 93% of our students.

https://www.dollartimes.com/loans/mortgage-rate.php?length=10&amount=150000 (plug in $86000 and 7% interest)
the bolded is not a representative figure... like at all

[CosmicCowboy]

Clueless.

Honestly, I could explain it to you, but meh. I'm kinda tired of trying to show you how the world has changed.

LOL open mind.

You have google, same as I do. If you don't understand how it's different, go find out. Take some personal responsibility for informing yourself.
I havent noticed STEM graduates having a hard time getting good paying jobs. One needs to take that in consideration when choosing a major. There is a definite correlation between the difficulty of the major and post graduate compensation.

[spurraider21]

I havent noticed STEM graduates having a hard time getting good paying jobs. One needs to take that in consideration when choosing a major. There is a definite correlation between the difficulty of the major and post graduate compensation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inxoRyD9c-8

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Clueless.

Honestly, I could explain it to you, but meh. I'm kinda tired of trying to show you how the world has changed.

LOL open mind.

You have google, same as I do. If you don't understand how it's different, go find out. Take some personal responsibility for informing yourself.

It's funny. GOPotards understood how low unemployment did not mean good wages, salaries, or even jobs when Obama was in office.

[baseline bum]

LOL anthropology

[sickdsm]

Pretty common for the same ones bitching about cost of college and student loans also to look down upon those who didn't go to college or went to a cc.

Job market bad? Nah. Your in a congested market with a congested field. Everyone wants to live in a temperate climate/bustling city and work in an exiting field.

[CosmicCowboy]

Pretty common for the same ones bitching about cost of college and student loans also to look down upon those who didn't go to college or went to a cc.

Job market bad? Nah. Your in a congested market with a congested field. Everyone wants to live in a temperate climate/bustling city and work in an exiting field.

And get paid six figures to start.

[rmt]

the bolded is not a representative figure... like at all

Feel free to experiment with interest rates - I provided the calculator. 7% seems middle ground - mix between private and government loan rates.

[AaronY]

Lol socialism. OP is becoming more retardedly embarrassing by the day. By the hour even

[Nathan89]

There is absolutely no justification for the public to pay for the useless degrees that colleges are dishing out.

[Isitjustme?]

Outside your echo chamber, most young people I talk to are chafing at the "slavery" of student loan debt, because that is essentially what it has become.

The Europeans I talk to can only shake their head at impoverishing people who go to college for years.

We need to stop stealing from the poor to give to the rich.

Lol its literally slavery!

[CosmicCowboy]

There is absolutely no justification for the public to pay for the useless degrees that colleges are dishing out.

X2

[FlAVaK]

the bolded is not a representative figure... like at all

987426984195174405

Here is your source :downspin:

[Expert]

politics are typically a mixture of principle and self interest
/fortune cookie wisdom

[Spurtacular]

/fortune cookie wisdom

Gee, no fucking kidding. These kids holding onto to hope cos they haven't come to terms that politicians fuck them in the ass all day long.

[SpursforSix]

Outside your echo chamber, most young people I talk to are chafing at the "slavery" of student loan debt, because that is essentially what it has become.

The Europeans I talk to can only shake their head at impoverishing people who go to college for years.

We need to stop stealing from the poor to give to the rich.

Says the guy who is mad because shit just didn't pan out and isn't willing to work hard enough to try something else. And/or isn't able to enjoy life because he's envious of material shit he can't have.

You've become transparent as fuck.

[SpursforSix]

Sorry but that's how you come across. Bitter.

[SpursforSix]

And at least blacks have an argument. You've got white privilege and still can't figure it out.

[AaronY]

/fortune cookie wisdom
You still can't find the password to DMC? lmao

[Mikeanaro]

So he wants a Venezuela?

[spurraider21]

/fortune cookie wisdom
/chirp

[Expert]

You still can't find the password to DMC? lmao

Different devices have different saved PWs

I haven't tried. :lol

[rmt]

the bolded is not a representative figure... like at all

Your underlined statement is straight off MDC's webpage (4th gray box down). I didn't say that all other cc are like that, but she didn't need to take on huge amounts of debt.

[spurraider21]

Your underlined statement is straight off MDC's webpage (4th gray box down). I didn't say that all other cc are like that, but she didn't need to take on huge amounts of debt.
Do you know what representative means?

[AaronY]

Different devices have different saved PWs

I haven't tried. :lol
Haha

[rmt]

Do you know what representative means?

Yes, and the majority of cc are affordable as in not taking on tens and tens of thousands of debt. She chose her path, and now we all should pay for it?

[spurraider21]

Yes, and the majority of cc are affordable as in not taking on tens and tens of thousands of debt. She chose her path, and now we all should pay for it?
The idea that 93% of students getting a bachelors can do so debt free is not representative. CC’s generally don’t emphasize bachelors degrees and those that offer them don’t offer that great a variety.

[CosmicCowboy]

My niece is one of those loaded up on student loans. Changed majors three times and took seven years to graduate from Tech. Borrowed not just enough for school but 100% of living expenses for her and her boyfriend including buying him a Harley. I was shocked at how much she was borrowing.

[sickdsm]

The idea that 93% of students getting a bachelors can do so debt free is not representative. CC’s generally don’t emphasize bachelors degrees and those that offer them don’t offer that great a variety.
I don't think graduating debt free is a realistic end goal. I know how frugal my wife was getting her bachelor's and she worked multiple jobs. We still have some debt but even 12 years ago it was eye opening how many lived like CCs niece.

[RandomGuy]

I havent noticed STEM graduates having a hard time getting good paying jobs. One needs to take that in consideration when choosing a major. There is a definite correlation between the difficulty of the major and post graduate compensation.

No one is saying otherwise.

Again, clueless.

How has the US job market changed since you were 20?

[RandomGuy]

Says the guy who is mad because shit just didn't pan out and isn't willing to work hard enough to try something else. And/or isn't able to enjoy life because he's envious of material shit he can't have.

You've become transparent as fuck.

You seem to have me confused with someone else. lol "transparent"

Project much?

[RandomGuy]

Gee, no fucking kidding. These kids holding onto to hope cos they haven't come to terms that politicians fuck them in the ass all day long.

That may be the one thing you and I agree on.

[Nathan89]

Employers could just start filtering through candidates using other criteria to find intelligent employees. Then they could train them. Instead of the current process of requiring a useless piece of paper.

[RandomGuy]

Employers could just start filtering through candidates using other criteria to find intelligent employees. Then they could train them. Instead of the current process of requiring a useless piece of paper.

A lot of your posts on race were worth getting to, and deserved a bit more time. My time here varies a lot, but I wish I had more time to poke at them. FWIW.

[sickdsm]

No one is saying otherwise.

Again, clueless.

How has the US job market changed since you were 20?
Not directed at me but you can ask 100 business owners around here and they will all say you can't find anyone to show up and not be methed out. Everyone will agree it has gotten alot worse in 20 years.

[boutons_deux]

Not directed at me but you can ask 100 business owners around here and they will all say you can't find anyone to show up and not be methed out. Everyone will agree it has gotten alot worse in 20 years.

where? what kind of jobs? low-pay/no-future jobs for low-end people?

The War on Drugs is a huge success, is why JeBo is trying to ramp it up.

Incarceration (for-profit) (police state) Nation getting a lot bigger, even as violent crime nationwide is at historic lows

The substance abuse problem, 100+ dead EVERY FUCKING DAY (and that's just drugs, excluding legal alcohol and cigarettes) indicates a sick society, rigged by the oligarchy against everybody except the oligarchy.

Blaming the victims of the oligarchy rather than the oligarchy is ignorance supreme, being duped by the oligarchy's propaganda.

[sickdsm]

where? what kind of jobs? low-pay/no-future jobs for low-end people?

The War on Drugs is a huge success, is why JeBo is trying to ramp it up.

Incarceration (for-profit) (police state) Nation getting a lot bigger, even as violent crime nationwide is at historic lows

The substance abuse problem, 100+ dead EVERY FUCKING DAY (and that's just drugs, excluding legal alcohol and cigarettes) indicates a sick society, rigged by the oligarchy against everybody except the oligarchy.

Blaming the victims of the oligarchy rather than the oligarchy is ignorance supreme, being duped by the oligarchy's propaganda.

Anything and everything. Show up and pass piss test, if you're competent you'll be $25/hr within a year building bins. Local agent dealership in desperate need for precision ag specialist, working with gps, monitors, etc. I love tech, I would jump into that in a heartbeat if I wasn't doing what I'm doing.

$17/hr convenience store cashier.


All of them, including gas station job have room to promote. Good enough jobs for me, probably not special enough for the elite.


Got to realize that cost of living is pretty cheap here. My brother in law bought a 30yr old house, 3 bedroom, half finished basement, huge lot, etc. for under $40k couple years ago. Nice houses in small towns go pretty reasonable.

[Nathan89]

Anything and everything. Show up and pass piss test, if you're competent you'll be $25/hr within a year building bins. Local agent dealership in desperate need for precision ag specialist, working with gps, monitors, etc. I love tech, I would jump into that in a heartbeat if I wasn't doing what I'm doing.

$17/hr convenience store cashier.


All of them, including gas station job have room to promote. Good enough jobs for me, probably not special enough for the elite.


Got to realize that cost of living is pretty cheap here. My brother in law bought a 30yr old house, 3 bedroom, half finished basement, huge lot, etc. for under $40k couple years ago. Nice houses in small towns go pretty reasonable.


$17 cashier and $40k house doesn't exist in the same place tbh

[sickdsm]

$17 cashier and $40k house doesn't exist in the same place tbh

I co-signed for that house. It's on 3 City lots. It's 90s decorated but very solid. Basement was gutted, framed up and wired. Bank foreclosure. Listed, not an auction.

$17/hr cashier was from the owners mouth. Buddy of mine owns 3 gas stations in there different towns in a 30 mile radius. Tribal reservation. $17/hr will also get you farm work. Sit in a tractor and hold the wheel.

[spurraider21]

30yr old house, 3 bedroom, half finished basement, huge lot, etc. for under $40k couple years ago.
housing market is by far the worst thing about living in LA... i cant even think of buying anything worthwhile until i can throw something in the ballpark of 6 figures into a down payment

[Xevious]

Eliminate Sallie Mae and you'll see college prices drop real quick. Colleges/Universities can charge whatever the fuck they want because we pass out guaranteed loans to 18-year-olds with no credit or job history. No other industry does that. Getting a four year degree is not a right, nor is it a guarantee of financial success. Yet people spend tens of thousands of dollars on expensive schools and dumbass degrees and expect somebody to hand them a decent paying job.

Pick a reasonably priced school and work your ass off. And maybe pick a marketable field of study.

[CosmicCowboy]

housing market is by far the worst thing about living in LA... i cant even think of buying anything worthwhile until i can throw something in the ballpark of 6 figures into a down payment
Yeah, I was shocked. My sons 1800 sf average nice 40 year old house in Culver City was over a million.

[RandomGuy]

Yeah, I was shocked. My sons 1800 sf average nice 40 year old house in Culver City was over a million.

But, but, it's the socialism that is driving people out of California... right?

The answer, as always, is staring at you, but you can't see it because of your ideological blinders.

[sickdsm]

$17 cashier and $40k house doesn't exist in the same place tbh

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1207-34th-St-SW-Watertown-SD-57201/114543206_zpid/

[sickdsm]

https://hydrokleanllc.ourcareerpages.com/job/323867?source=hydrokleanllc&returnURL=https://www.hydro-klean.com/generalinformation/careers&jobFeedCode=hydrokleanllc

[sickdsm]

There's a lot of jobs at$17/hr no experience. I know that's not a cashier but some of those jobs don't get posted. You'll have every idiot coming in that can't get up in the morning trying to find a job. Word of mouth weeds out the bad seeds.

[Winehole23]

Ten term Democratic machine boss Joe Crowley -- the number four Democrat in the House -- loses the primary to Alexandra Cortez-Ocasio:


Crowley had seemingly every advantage in the race – as the head of the Queens County machine, he is essentially the definition of a candidate with all of the institutional support. He had raised $3.35 million in the race – compared with just over $300,000 raised by Ocasio-Cortez.

[Winehole23]

four DSA candidates won primaries in PA:

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/387901-four-socialist-backed-candidates-win-pennsylvania-elections

[AaronY]

four DSA candidates won primaries in PA:

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/387901-four-socialist-backed-candidates-win-pennsylvania-elections
Sad times tbh

[SnakeBoy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFRHX6glTSM

[AaronY]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFRHX6glTSM
I thought they were pussies and if there was a civil war they would lose in two seconds so what is there to worry about?

[SnakeBoy]

I thought they were pussies and if there was a civil war they would lose in two seconds so what is there to worry about?

There's nothing to worry about as long as you don't vote for them.

I can tell your on the edge. In time you'll see the light and come on down to the big tent party. We all float down here. You'll float, too.

[RandomGuy]

There's nothing to worry about as long as you don't vote for them.

I can tell your on the edge. In time you'll see the light and come on down to the big tent party. We all float down here. You'll float, too.

"big tent party"

What percentage of Republican elected officials are women?
--non-white?

Please explain the term "RINO".

[Blake]

There's nothing to worry about as long as you don't vote for them.

I can tell your on the edge. In time you'll see the light and come on down to the big tent party. We all float down here. You'll float, too.

Naw, looks swampy

[TeyshaBlue]

There's nothing to worry about as long as you don't vote for them.

I can tell your on the edge. In time you'll see the light and come on down to the big tent party. We all float down here. You'll float, too.
Logan's Run?

[RandomGuy]

Ten term Democratic machine boss Joe Crowley -- the number four Democrat in the House -- loses the primary to Alexandra Cortez-Ocasio:

Crowley was as crooked as they come from what I have seen. I will never pretend Democrats don't have their POS politicians, but I am hopeful that more of them are going to be shown the door.

[RandomGuy]

come on down to the big tent party. We all float down here.

(bites tongue about unflattering things that float)

[SnakeBoy]

Poor girl

1018707668993626112

[spurraider21]

Poor girl

1018707668993626112
are you saying israel is not occupying the west bank and gaza strip?

[AaronY]

1022538953579290624

Lol

[AaronY]

are you saying israel is not occupying the west bank and gaza strip?
Shes really retarded dude, c'mon

[RandomGuy]

Shes really retarded dude, c'mon

Seems like she is taking a principled stand for something she believes.

I thought that was what you want.

[KenMcCoy]

1022538953579290624

Lol

My family fled the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia before I was born. They were subjected to "re-education" camps (forced labor), witnessed the rape and execution of relatives and friends, had to swim across the Mekong River to Thailand, and then stay in a refugee camp for 3 years until they could legally enter the US. I've always wondered how differing political views could ever escalate to the mass murder of an entire people. I see now, especially with social media, how a mob mentality can create these situations. God bless the 2nd.

I wonder how many people have ever fled capitalism?

[RandomGuy]

My family fled the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia before I was born. They were subjected to "re-education" camps (forced labor), witnessed the rape and execution of relatives and friends, had to swim across the Mekong River to Thailand, and then stay in a refugee camp for 3 years until they could legally enter the US. I've always wondered how differing political views could ever escalate to the mass murder of an entire people. I see now, especially with social media, how a mob mentality can create these situations. God bless the 2nd.

I wonder how many people have ever fled capitalism?

Communism is a failure as an idea, just like libertarianism, for many of the same reasons.

I would not ever advocate communism, and no one I know thinks we should try that here.

Means of production should be kept in private hands.

The right in this country LOVES to blur the lines there, in a rush towards ad hominems and strawmen, which are dishonest ways to frame discussions and control a narrative.

This is why the old saw of "but Venezuela" is always trotted out, while any discussion of Norway, Denmark, Germany, et al. are always avoided.

[RandomGuy]

My family fled the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia before I was born. They were subjected to "re-education" camps (forced labor), witnessed the rape and execution of relatives and friends, had to swim across the Mekong River to Thailand, and then stay in a refugee camp for 3 years until they could legally enter the US. I've always wondered how differing political views could ever escalate to the mass murder of an entire people. I see now, especially with social media, how a mob mentality can create these situations. God bless the 2nd.

I wonder how many people have ever fled capitalism?

Capitalism has its own inherent flaws. Monopolies, special interests, nepotism, etc. Capitalism MUST be given solid rules to protect the interests of societies.

Pure capitialism in this country has led to the country lurching from financial crisis to financial crisis. Depression to Recession.

The problem is that, like in many Communist states, pure capitalism tends to concentrate wealth into fewer and fewer hands.

two words:
Gini coefficient

[KenMcCoy]

Confused with socialism, which you apparently believe in now?

Article II. PurposeWe are socialists because we reject an economic order based on private profit, alienated labor, gross inequalities of wealth and power, discrimination based on race, sex, sexual orientation, gender expression, disability status, age, religion, and national origin, and brutality and violence in defense of the status quo. We are socialists because we share a vision of a humane social order based on popular control of resources and production, economic planning, equitable distribution, feminism, racial equality and non-oppressive relationships. We are socialists because we are developing a concrete strategy for achieving that vision, for building a majority movement that will make democratic socialism a reality in America. We believe that such a strategy must acknowledge the class structure of American society and that this class structure means that there is a basic conflict of interest between those sectors with enormous economic power and the vast majority of the population.

https://www.dsausa.org/constitution

Sounds pretty similar to the Khmer Rouge...

[boutons_deux]

Confused with socialism, which you apparently believe in now?

Article II. Purpose

We are socialists because we reject an economic order based on private profit, alienated labor, gross inequalities of wealth and power, discrimination based on race, sex, sexual orientation, gender expression, disability status, age, religion, and national origin, and brutality and violence in defense of the status quo. We are socialists because we share a vision of a humane social order based on popular control of resources and production, economic planning, equitable distribution, feminism, racial equality and non-oppressive relationships. We are socialists because we are developing a concrete strategy for achieving that vision, for building a majority movement that will make democratic socialism a reality in America. We believe that such a strategy must acknowledge the class structure of American society and that this class structure means that there is a basic conflict of interest between those sectors with enormous economic power and the vast majority of the population.

https://www.dsausa.org/constitution

Sounds pretty similar to the Khmer Rouge...

not at all.

for me (key) "resources" includes eg water, air, energy, transportation, capital.

All of which are out of control of The People.

Khmer Rouge? scare tactics by the bad faith ignorant

[KenMcCoy]

Khmer Rouge? scare tactics by the bad faith ignorant

No scare tactics...just personal family experiences and trying to generate discussion.

[RandomGuy]

No scare tactics...just personal family experiences and trying to generate discussion.

worth pointing out what concentration of power, and a lack of free press and other rights can do.

[KenMcCoy]

worth pointing out what concentration of power, and a lack of free press and other rights can do.

Yes...on either side of the spectrum.

[DMC]

Seems like she is taking a principled stand for something she believes.

I thought that was what you want.

Some US Americans don't have maps, such as, and the occupation of Palestine, and such as the children in Africa and such as

[DMC]

My family fled the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia before I was born. They were subjected to "re-education" camps (forced labor), witnessed the rape and execution of relatives and friends, had to swim across the Mekong River to Thailand, and then stay in a refugee camp for 3 years until they could legally enter the US. I've always wondered how differing political views could ever escalate to the mass murder of an entire people. I see now, especially with social media, how a mob mentality can create these situations. God bless the 2nd.

I wonder how many people have ever fled capitalism?

See the DNC

[KenMcCoy]

:rollin

[RandomGuy]

Confused with socialism, which you apparently believe in now?

Article II. PurposeWe are socialists because we reject an economic order based on private profit, alienated labor, gross inequalities of wealth and power, discrimination based on race, sex, sexual orientation, gender expression, disability status, age, religion, and national origin, and brutality and violence in defense of the status quo. We are socialists because we share a vision of a humane social order based on popular control of resources and production, economic planning, equitable distribution, feminism, racial equality and non-oppressive relationships. We are socialists because we are developing a concrete strategy for achieving that vision, for building a majority movement that will make democratic socialism a reality in America. We believe that such a strategy must acknowledge the class structure of American society and that this class structure means that there is a basic conflict of interest between those sectors with enormous economic power and the vast majority of the population.

https://www.dsausa.org/constitution

Sounds pretty similar to the Khmer Rouge...

Hmm. If that is the case, I am out.

Thanks for the info. I am back to being a mere Democrat again. That goes counter to my previous understanding.

[RandomGuy]

Yes...on either side of the spectrum.

Fully agree.

At this point though, political power is entirely concentrated in the U.S. in line with weath concentration. .4% of the population owns roughly 50% of all assets, and essentially control the country, acting in their interests over everyone elses.

[boutons_deux]

No scare tactics...just personal family experiences and trying to generate discussion.

No social democracies in Europe are Khmer Rouge, and proponents of American democratic socialism are not proposing Khmer Rouge, USSR Stalinism, Maoist Communism, or any other such crap.

Khmer Rouge? bad faith scare tactics.

Unless you are a Capitalist, capitalism sucks.

[KenMcCoy]

No social democracies in Europe are Khmer Rouge, and proponents of American democratic socialism are not proposing Khmer Rouge, USSR Stalinism, Maoist Communism, or any other such crap.

Khmer Rouge? bad faith scare tactics.

Unless you are a Capitalist, capitalism sucks.

Which European social democracy do you think we should pattern the new American social utopia after?

[AaronY]

Which European social democracy do you think we should pattern the new American social utopia after?
Whichever one didnt lead to people eating out of Garbage cans Venezuela style I'm guessing

[RandomGuy]

Which European social democracy do you think we should pattern the new American social utopia after?

Denmark would be fine. Holland, Norway.

Each has a sovereign wealth fund that invests and earns a return. Part of the returns are then used to fund the government, and is run by a investment management board.

Each has better standards of living, and lower poverty rates than the US.

[KenMcCoy]

Denmark would be fine. Holland, Norway.

Each has a sovereign wealth fund that invests and earns a return. Part of the returns are then used to fund the government, and is run by a investment management board.

Each has better standards of living, and lower poverty rates than the US.

Denmark poverty rate of 13.4% is only 1.7% lower than the US poverty rate, not that much difference for a high welfare country. And how do the people of Denmark better themselves by using all of that welfare? Turns out not a whole lot:

The first big idea is that Denmark is not a nation of Horatio Algersens. Its high social mobility is not the result of an economy that is uniquely good at helping poor children earn middle-class salaries. Instead, it is a country much like the U.S., where the children of poor parents who don’t go to college are also unlikely to attend college or earn a high wage. Social mobility in Denmark and the U.S. seem to be remarkably similar when looking exclusively at wages—that is, before including taxes and transfers.

...

But despite this far greater investment in young children and public colleges, Danish children of high-school graduates are still extremely unlikely to go onto college. Put slightly differently, a tiny share of Denmark’s college graduate population comes from homes where neither parent finished high school. The children of college-grads almost always go to college; the children of non-grads often don’t—even in Denmark.

...

The third big idea is that Denmark’s welfare policies might reduce its citizens’ incentives to go to college. In the early 1990s, when Denmark raised the minimum age of eligibility for social assistance, college enrollment among Danish twentysomethings fell below its trajectory. Based on this finding, the researchers conclude that welfare policies may reduce college enrollment. Denmark makes it more comfortable to be poor and less lucrative to be rich, so many young people decide to end their education after high school

...

The most significant implication of this paper is not a happy one: Equality of opportunity is a fantasy. It does not exist in the U.S., it does not exist in Denmark, and it probably doesn’t exist anywhere. The children of rich college graduates are far more likely to grow up to become rich college graduates, even in the world's social-democratic fantasyland. That is because, everywhere, parents matter.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/08/the-american-dream-isnt-alive-in-denmark/494141/

[RandomGuy]

Denmark poverty rate of 13.4% is only 1.7% lower than the US poverty rate, not that much difference for a high welfare country. And how do the people of Denmark better themselves by using all of that welfare? Turns out not a whole lot:

The first big idea is that Denmark is not a nation of Horatio Algersens. Its high social mobility is not the result of an economy that is uniquely good at helping poor children earn middle-class salaries. Instead, it is a country much like the U.S., where the children of poor parents who don’t go to college are also unlikely to attend college or earn a high wage. Social mobility in Denmark and the U.S. seem to be remarkably similar when looking exclusively at wages—that is, before including taxes and transfers.

...

But despite this far greater investment in young children and public colleges, Danish children of high-school graduates are still extremely unlikely to go onto college. Put slightly differently, a tiny share of Denmark’s college graduate population comes from homes where neither parent finished high school. The children of college-grads almost always go to college; the children of non-grads often don’t—even in Denmark.

...

The third big idea is that Denmark’s welfare policies might reduce its citizens’ incentives to go to college. In the early 1990s, when Denmark raised the minimum age of eligibility for social assistance, college enrollment among Danish twentysomethings fell below its trajectory. Based on this finding, the researchers conclude that welfare policies may reduce college enrollment. Denmark makes it more comfortable to be poor and less lucrative to be rich, so many young people decide to end their education after high school

...

The most significant implication of this paper is not a happy one: Equality of opportunity is a fantasy. It does not exist in the U.S., it does not exist in Denmark, and it probably doesn’t exist anywhere. The children of rich college graduates are far more likely to grow up to become rich college graduates, even in the world's social-democratic fantasyland. That is because, everywhere, parents matter.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/08/the-american-dream-isnt-alive-in-denmark/494141/

So what?

I see some bolded here, with other important bits from the article left out.

If you are attempting to show "socialism doesn't work", this article does not do that.

For example:
College attainment is not a good in and of itself. Differing rates have different consequences and meanings. The comparison of the two is interesting but without you saying why you feel it important, somewhat moot, if you can't spell out how it is meaningful.

Ironically:

This large public investment in kids seems to increase cognitive skills among poor Danish children compared to their American peers. In international math and reading scores, for example, the poorest quartile in Denmark far outperforms their counterparts in the U.S.

[KenMcCoy]

I left out a lot because I didn't want to copy/paste the entire article. It's a good article that looks at both sides...

"This final idea may be the most controversial. After all, it’s not clear how to frame this finding. Democrats can say: Despite conservative arguments that a welfare state could destroy poor young people’s ambition, Denmark’s educational mobility is no worse than the U.S. But Republicans can say: Despite liberal arguments that Denmark is so much better than the U.S. at social mobility, its poor kids are no more likely to go to college. “There is something here for the Republicans and for the Democrats,” Heckman told me."

Socialism isn't the "Easy Button" that solves all of societies inequalities. The only way to do that is through generational improvement...want a better life for your kids? Stay home, read to them, teach them the value of work and persistence. Give them a head start through knowledge and education. Encourage them to learn a skill or a trade. Encourage them to join the military to learn respect and discipline. Encourage them to go to college. Instill these values in your children so that they pass them on to their kids, and so on.

Upward social mobility isn't something that can be instilled by the government. As the article says "...parents matter."

[RandomGuy]

I left out a lot because I didn't want to copy/paste the entire article. It's a good article that looks at both sides...

"This final idea may be the most controversial. After all, it’s not clear how to frame this finding. Democrats can say: Despite conservative arguments that a welfare state could destroy poor young people’s ambition, Denmark’s educational mobility is no worse than the U.S. But Republicans can say: Despite liberal arguments that Denmark is so much better than the U.S. at social mobility, its poor kids are no more likely to go to college. “There is something here for the Republicans and for the Democrats,” Heckman told me."

Socialism isn't the "Easy Button" that solves all of societies inequalities. The only way to do that is through generational improvement...want a better life for your kids? Stay home, read to them, teach them the value of work and persistence. Give them a head start through knowledge and education. Encourage them to learn a skill or a trade. Encourage them to join the military to learn respect and discipline. Encourage them to go to college. Instill these values in your children so that they pass them on to their kids, and so on.

Upward social mobility isn't something that can be instilled by the government. As the article says "...parents matter."


Thanks much. I agree. It did have a bit of both, even though the data reviewed was rather limited.

On that note:
https://theintercept.com/2018/07/30/medicare-for-all-cost-health-care-wages/

Seems like that bit of Canadian style socialism would end up saving trillions of dollars.

[KenMcCoy]

Thanks much. I agree. It did have a bit of both, even though the data reviewed was rather limited.

On that note:
https://theintercept.com/2018/07/30/medicare-for-all-cost-health-care-wages/

Seems like that bit of Canadian style socialism would end up saving trillions of dollars.

saving $Ts overall (assuming ALL rates are renegotiated to match Medicare rates, which is a stretch) but someone still has to pay for it. Would take higher employment taxes (paid for by business + employees), federal VAT (estimated at 20%), plus income tax hikes.

A federal VAT would wipe out almost all of the wage increase benefits they estimate and be added on top of current State rates (up to 10% in some areas). That's 30 cents in tax for every dollar! Transaction taxes affect low income people much more than high earners...

[ElNono]

It's all a give or take. Some people will moan for paying even 1% in taxes. Some people would gladly pay in half their salary to get guaranteed healthcare coverage (sure, they don't make a lot, but that's the point).

Nice to see some civil debate. I will chip in with my own anecdote about the previous discussion about communism/socialism. I grew up in a country with a military dictatorship, and the difference really is democracy. A social democracy has nothing to do with communism, and not much to envy to a capitalist democracy (granted, depending who you ask).

Democracy is the central point though. It's an interesting point because democracy in and of itself is very socialistic in nature (in practice, it's more debatable): It's free to vote, barriers that prevent voting are largely either illegal or shunned (in any solid democracy anyways), and a vote from the rich or poor counts the same.

[CosmicCowboy]

That three trillion a year number number being kicked around for "medicaid for all" is based on the faulty premise that they can just pay hospitals medicaid rates. Hospitals as we know them couldnt survive at those rates.

[Th'Pusher]

That three trillion a year number number being kicked around for "medicaid for all" is based on the faulty premise that they can just pay hospitals medicaid rates. Hospitals as we know them couldnt survive at those rates.

Why is that?

[boutons_deux]

American for-profit health care, as we see now, will never be affordable, and will continue to be denied to 10Ms who can't pay, esp if the oligarchy totally kills ACA

for-profit health care is so wealthy and powerful (it owns legislators who are both cheap and corrupt) that it will defeat legislatively all attempts at alternatives that would reduce its payout to Capital

so

America is fucked and unfuckable

... condemned to overpay for health care by $1T+ / year while under-serving 10Ms, and of course those 10Ks who suffer and die for want of health care, and while overall obtaining worse health care outcomes than any other industrial country, including nobody in those countries going bankrupt from medical debt.

and don't forget the 50K to 100K people killed every year by avoidable medical mistakes.

All y'all's inane debates may be a fun exercise in bullshit, but nothing about health care will change for the better, and the Repugs are working relentlessly hard to it change for the worse.

[CosmicCowboy]

Boo is right. Democrats are just posturing for the elections with the "medicaid for all" bullshit so the stupid ones will vote for them. They know there is no fucking way their campaign promises will ever become legislation.

[Th'Pusher]

Boo is right. Democrats are just posturing for the elections with the "medicaid for all" bullshit so the stupid ones will vote for them. They know there is no fucking way their campaign promises will ever become legislation.

Boots the engineer and CC reporting for duty as his second in command on the fucked and unfuckable train!

I like it.

[boutons_deux]

CC's point was the Dems are lying and that Medicare for all would be cheaper than for-profit health care, therefore, impossible.

While my point was the for-profit health care has been and will continue to fleece Americans over their entire lives, and that there is no possible solution.

Avg health insurance cost / year for family of 4 is approaching, inexorably, $30K.

"The total costs for a typical family of four

insured by the most common health plan offered by employers

will average $28,166 this year,

according to the annual Milliman Medical Index.

That's up from 2010, when the cost crossed $20,000.

Just two years ago, it topped $25,000.

The estimate includes the average cost of health insurance paid by employers and employees, as well as deductibles and out-of-pocket expenses."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2018/06/06/health-care-costs-price-family-four/676046002/

[RandomGuy]

saving $Ts overall (assuming ALL rates are renegotiated to match Medicare rates, which is a stretch) but someone still has to pay for it. Would take higher employment taxes (paid for by business + employees), federal VAT (estimated at 20%), plus income tax hikes.

A federal VAT would wipe out almost all of the wage increase benefits they estimate and be added on top of current State rates (up to 10% in some areas). That's 30 cents in tax for every dollar! Transaction taxes affect low income people much more than high earners...

All those taxes!!! :dramaquee

I'm sure that the analysis totally didn't consider that. :D

Seriously though, they did. :king

Free up people from having to fork over 20k/year for health insurance, and it becomes affordable, not only that you aren't paying for massive amounts of overhead, and profit margins for CEOs.

A dollar out of my pocket is a dollar out of my pocket where it ends up is sort of irrelevant, and that is what your analysis is missing. Yes taxes would have to be imposed to pay for it, and yes that is not really an added burden for most people.

As I have said all along, we already have tons of inefficient cost-shifting. Our health care and health insurance system is broken and expensive relative to the alternative. We are all poorer for keeping it.

[RandomGuy]

That three trillion a year number number being kicked around for "medicaid for all" is based on the faulty premise that they can just pay hospitals medicaid rates. Hospitals as we know them couldnt survive at those rates.

How specifically is that premise faulty?

The hospital CEO that I spoke to would be thrilled to have all the people who came in his doors actually pay their bills. He seemed pretty sure that meant he could drop prices for the people who were paying.

(full disclosure, this was years ago, when they were debating the ACA)

[RandomGuy]

two identical people in the hospital for identical everything.

one pays current rates 100k for their stay.

the other pays zero.


Hospital revenue 100k.

Medicaid pays 75k, well under that 100k threshold.

both are covered.

Hospital revenue now 150k.

Tell me again how the hospital goes under? Assuming the 100k was the absolute breakeven point for the hospital?

Not sure what the exact numbers are, but this sure seems to pass the initial smell test. A good fleshing out with actual data would be more warranted than a casual dismissal.

[SnakeBoy]

Wow you just solved the healthcare puzzle RG

Good Job! :toast

[RandomGuy]

Wow you just solved the healthcare puzzle RG

Good Job! :toast

10 whole words. I can see you've had your coffee this morning. Try to lay off a little, I worry you might strain something.

[RandomGuy]

Wow you just solved the healthcare puzzle RG

Good Job! :toast

Here is what a little thought and effort looks like. I hope my virtue signaling doesn't trigger you, snowflake. ;)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Year after year, it becomes easier and easier to point out how little American capitalism is doing to make people's lives better.

The benefits of our economy increasingly go to fewer and fewer hands.


The new Roosevelt Institute and NELP research examines public firms in three major but notoriously low-wage industries— food production, retail, and restaurants—weighing buybacks against worker compensation. Unsurprisingly, Tung and Milani found that companies were aggressive in purchasing their own shares. The restaurant industry spent 140 percent of its profits on buybacks from 2015 to 2017, meaning that it borrowed or dipped into its cash allowances to purchase the shares. The retail industry spent nearly 80 percent of its profits on buybacks, and food-manufacturing firms nearly 60 percent. All in all, public companies across the American economy spent roughly three-fifths of their profits on buybacks in the years studied. “The amount corporations are spending on buybacks is staggering,” Milani said. “Then, to look a little deeper and see how this could impact workers in terms of compensation, was staggering.”

How much might workers have benefited if companies had devoted their financial resources to them rather than to shareholders? Lowe’s, CVS, and Home Depot could have provided each of their workers a raise of $18,000 a year, the report found. Starbucks could have given each of its employees $7,000 a year, and McDonald’s could have given $4,000 to each of its nearly 2 million employees.

“Workers around the country have been pushing for higher wages, but the answer is always, ‘We can’t afford it. We’d have to do layoffs or raise prices,’” Tung said. “That is just not true. The money is there. It’s just getting siphoned out of the company instead of reinvested into it.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/07/are-stock-buybacks-starving-the-economy/566387

[SnakeBoy]

Here is what a little thought and effort looks like. I hope my virtue signaling doesn't trigger you, snowflake. ;)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Year after year, it becomes easier and easier to point out how little American capitalism is doing to make people's lives better.

The benefits of our economy increasingly go to fewer and fewer hands.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/07/are-stock-buybacks-starving-the-economy/566387

That's what googling looks like. It's not hard, it's not thoughtful, and it's not productive.

You get your bills paid off yet?

[boutons_deux]

Capitalism is fantastic for Capitalist, everybody else is at risk

[RandomGuy]

Boo is right. Democrats are just posturing for the elections with the "medicaid for all" bullshit so the stupid ones will vote for them. They know there is no fucking way their campaign promises will ever become legislation.


I think progressives know their swing voter isn't red-to-blue, its non-voter to voter

I am willing to fight that fight at this point. Doing jack shit hasn't really gotten us anywhere, but lining the pockets of the hyperwealthy.

[RandomGuy]

That's what googling looks like. It's not hard, it's not thoughtful, and it's not productive.

You get your bills paid off yet?

[yawn]

[RandomGuy]

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dd5ad2cf76932cbfe99a95d25aede717ee8fb2f50f3455d1a5 ed78942c787bbd.jpg?w=800&h=341

[AaronY]

1024673918488141827

lmao adding the "demoratic" really does take some of the stink off doesnt it

[RandomGuy]

Wow you just solved the healthcare puzzle RG

Good Job! :toast

It's odd. You never see a country with universal health care trying to repeal it.

It's almost... as if it works or something.


:D

[SnakeBoy]

It's odd. You never see a country with universal health care trying to repeal it.

It's almost... as if it works or something.


:D

I'm not philosophically opposed to universal healthcare as I have stated many times on this forum but first you have to have a plan. To date there is no plan for universal healthcare in the USA. Bernie and the Socialist's latest album "everything is free and we'll figure out the details later" doesn't qualify as a plan.

[RandomGuy]

I'm not philosophically opposed to universal healthcare as I have stated many times on this forum but first you have to have a plan. To date there is no plan for universal healthcare in the USA. Bernie and the Socialist's latest album "everything is free and we'll figure out the details later" doesn't qualify as a plan.

Actually, the conservative think tank already told us how to pay for it, through their analysis of it, and I have already outlined it here. Private health insurers will be a huge loser here, but that will come at the benefit of everybody else.

Every other industrialized country has figured it out, so there are plenty of options to pick from.

[Winehole23]

National Review backs AOC's take on corporate welfare:


I can’t believe I’m saying this, but Ocasio-Cortez is mostly correct on this matter, and her conservative critics are wrong. Handouts like this to Amazon and other prominent companies are appalling in their cronyism, pure and simple. I agree that she doesn’t understand economics and that her socialist ideal (https://www.aier.org/article/economic-realities-democratic-socialism) is a recipe for fiscal and economic disaster. But her conservative critics reveal their own economic misunderstanding when they support targeted tax breaks as a means of creating jobs.https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/rep-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-right-about-amazons-corporate-welfare/

[RandomGuy]

National Review backs AOC's take on corporate welfare:

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/rep-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-is-right-about-amazons-corporate-welfare/

She "doesn't understand economics".


Ocasio-Cortez, 28, graduated from the College of Arts & Sciences in 2011, with a degree in economics and international relations
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2018/06/27/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-championed-social-justice-boston-university/hijSs266a6aQe6cSR1E1uI/story.html

Confirmation bias anyone?

[boutons_deux]

Capitalism is a failure, is fundamentally incompatible with democracy.

But the oligarchy's brain-washing for 50+ years, helped by the Cold War, has fooled people into believing Capitalism and greed are the only ways to organize society.

[CosmicCowboy]

Capitalism is a failure, is fundamentally incompatible with democracy.

But the oligarchy's brain-washing for 50+ years, helped by the Cold War, has fooled people into believing Capitalism and greed are the only ways to organize society.

what is your alternative proposal?

[Winehole23]

what is your alternative proposal?do you have any proposals for fixing fucked up shit, or do you just like to bitch about people who complain?

[CosmicCowboy]

do you have any proposals for fixing fucked up shit, or do you just like to bitch about people who complain?

When Boo comes in here and proclaims capitalism an evil failure I don't think it's unreasonable to ask what his proposed alternative is.

As for my proposals:

1) Get the fuck out of all foreign pointless wars. I could give a shit about any of them. Cut the military budget
2) give up on the war on drugs. Legalize, educate, and treat
3) I'm OK with raising the retirement age
4) Move the homeless into rural healthy camps where they can be housed and fed cheaply and receive basic medical care.
5) I'm OK with nationwide government health clinics for primary care. Free medical school for 15 years service in same. Insurance would only be for catastrophic events.

That's a start.

[CosmicCowboy]

The homeless camps could evaluate and train the ones that want to better their lives. The crazy/hopeless ones can just be housed. Bring back vagrancy laws. No freaking panhandlers, no urban homeless. Pick em up and move them out or give em a bus ticket to San Francisco

[CosmicCowboy]

Do away with the bail system. Don't show up for court? Automatic jail time when you get caught.

[CosmicCowboy]

Make all employers use EVerify on all employees. Automatic fine and jail time for violators no exceptions. Besides curing immigration issues it cures child support issues and eliminates or severely curtails the cash economy.

[CosmicCowboy]

City/county/state/federal should have to set up realistic reserves for pension obligations. If they cant afford that then privatize it and do 401Ks like everyone else. Having government employees retire after 30 years on full salary/benefits is bullshit when the ones paying for it are working till 70.

[CosmicCowboy]

Have a three track school system. One for the gifted and ambitious kids that live to learn. One for the average kids that also want to learn. One for the fuckups to keep from dumbing down the curriculum for the rest. Bring back real vocational training in the schools for those that want it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Totally rethink building codes to allow more affordable housing including finance. Tiny house communities with shared community facilities are a great starter homes for young people but zoning and finance are all about 3-2-2 suburbia which prices them out of range unless you move to the boondocks.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm all about legal immigration and a path to citizenship. Start with a green card, work ten years, pay your taxes, stay out of trouble, learn English (free classes) and you get to be a citizen after ten years.

[CosmicCowboy]

How is that for starters winehole?

[spurraider21]

i can get behind a lot of that... dno about the 3 track school system, and 10 years wait for citizenship after already having permanent residency is a very long time

[CosmicCowboy]

i can get behind a lot of that... dno about the 3 track school system, and 10 years wait for citizenship after already having permanent residency is a very long time

It weeds out the ones you don't want. Keep your nose clean, keep a job, assimilate and be a positive to the community and you get full citizenship. Fuck up and you lose your green card. With everify mandatory, no work, no benefits, self deport or crime/jail. They are in the system with fingerprints, DNA, and an identity.

[Winehole23]

Thanks for the candid and somewhat lengthy reply, CC.

The openness is appreciated.

[Pavlov]

lol internment camps

[ElNono]

Good takes there by CC, IMO. Might not agree with all of them, but it's a good start.

[AaronY]

When Boo comes in here and proclaims capitalism an evil failure I don't think it's unreasonable to ask what his proposed alternative is.

As for my proposals:

1) Get the fuck out of all foreign pointless wars. I could give a shit about any of them. Cut the military budget
2) give up on the war on drugs. Legalize, educate, and treat
3) I'm OK with raising the retirement age
4) Move the homeless into rural healthy camps where they can be housed and fed cheaply and receive basic medical care.
5) I'm OK with nationwide government health clinics for primary care. Free medical school for 15 years service in same. Insurance would only be for catastrophic events.

That's a start.
Except for number 3 I like all of these lol

[boutons_deux]

CC's "take" is unsurprisingly racist, concentrating on immigrants, while natural born Americans can do 10x worse and mostly get away with it. It's Jaime Cuervo.

[CosmicCowboy]

CC's "take" is unsurprisingly racist, concentrating on immigrants, while natural born Americans can do 10x worse and mostly get away with it. It's Jaime Cuervo.

How is a clear path to citizenship for immigrants racist, shithead?

[RandomGuy]

what is your alternative proposal?

A government that puts peoples interests first.

I think government that solely represents the rich isn't fucking working for the rest of us.

[RandomGuy]

When Boo comes in here and proclaims capitalism an evil failure I don't think it's unreasonable to ask what his proposed alternative is.

As for my proposals:

1) Get the fuck out of all foreign pointless wars. I could give a shit about any of them. Cut the military budget
2) give up on the war on drugs. Legalize, educate, and treat
3) I'm OK with raising the retirement age
4) Move the homeless into rural healthy camps where they can be housed and fed cheaply and receive basic medical care.
5) I'm OK with nationwide government health clinics for primary care. Free medical school for 15 years service in same. Insurance would only be for catastrophic events.

That's a start.

Agreed, all points.

[RandomGuy]

Totally rethink building codes to allow more affordable housing including finance. Tiny house communities with shared community facilities are a great starter homes for young people but zoning and finance are all about 3-2-2 suburbia which prices them out of range unless you move to the boondocks.

Also agreed.

[boutons_deux]

raising the retirement age has almost no effect on SS finances

and the increase in SS payout for after 70 is not a lump sum but stretched out for years, meaning Ms will die before they are compensated for working another 5 years.

jobs available after 65, if findable, Agism Rules!, for the vast majority of work is degradingly shitty, and employee's SS contribution on shitty wage is peanuts

America's biggest problem now is inequality, due to the oligarchy rigging the economy, tax structure. Close all loopholes exploited by wealthy and BigCorp, and implement a highly regressive tax on all income, earned and unearned.

Add $1B to IRS staffing and enforce the fucking IRS rules, every $1 in enforcement returns $7 recovered

Why should we continue to believe that Capitalists shouldn't be taxed? Fuck those assholes

[Nbadan]

Medicare for all that covers the basic stuff and the cost of prescriptions. Federal tax stipend for cancer, stroke and heart disease so everyone buys their own supplemental plan.

Spend money on Infrastructure. There is no better way to spend money than on yourself and there is no better way to stimulate an economy.

Get rid of Gerrymandering by letting a committee of people from all party affiliations in each state draw the district and prescient boundaries. Reaffirm the full voting rights act.

10% of the yearly defense budget goes to pay off part of our $21 trillion dollar debt

Combat global warming by researching and creating atmospheric carbon dioxide reducing technology

[SnakeBoy]

Medicare for all that covers the basic stuff and the cost of prescriptions. Federal tax stipend for cancer, stroke and heart disease so everyone buys their own supplemental plan.

Spend money on Infrastructure. There is no better way to spend money than on yourself and there is no better way to stimulate an economy.

Get rid of Gerrymandering by letting a committee of people from all party affiliations in each state draw the district and prescient boundaries. Reaffirm the full voting rights act.

10% of the yearly defense budget goes to pay off part of our $21 trillion dollar debt

Combat global warming by researching and creating atmospheric carbon dioxide reducing technology

You solved all the major problems in 5 sentences...sweet.

[Winehole23]

DSA-backed candidate beats four-time incumbent in mayoral race in Buffalo, NY.

In response, the Buffalo Common Council is considering doing away with the office of the mayor.

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[Winehole23]

striking comtempt for popular sovereignty