Officials:Dome Likely Ok For Saints games In 06

[Shiner Bock Girl]

Officials: Dome likely OK for some Saints games in '06
: link :

Associated Press

BATON ROUGE, La. -- Louisiana Superdome officials said Thursday that the stadium should be largely cleaned up from Hurricane Katrina and ready for the New Orleans Saints to play at least some of their games there in 2006.

However, the announcement came as San Antonio officials said they were working Saints owner Tom Benson to keep the team in Texas. The state must also respond to the team's assertions that its state-owned practice facility has been rendered unusable by damages caused by federal agencies in the weeks following the Aug. 29 storm.

The Superdome, severely damaged by high winds, should have a temporary roof in place within 10 days, said Doug Thornton, regional vice president for SMG, which manages the Superdome. An environmental assessment of its interior -- damaged by rainfall through holes in the roof and its use as a shelter for evacuees -- should be finished by Dec. 1, he said.

"We're working to make the Dome ready for the next season," Thornton said at a meeting of the Louisiana Stadium and Exposition District Commission, the state board that oversees the Superdome.

The Saints have drawn criticism recently with shake ups in upper-level staff, as Benson apparently leans toward moving the team from New Orleans to San Antonio.

On Monday, Benson fired Arnold Fielkow, the team's top business executive since 2000 and an advocate for keeping the Saints in Louisiana. Fielkow has said that stance led to his dismissal. On Tuesday, Conrad Kowal, senior director of marketing and business development, resigned.

The team also sent a letter to the Louisiana National Guard and the stadium commission, saying their Jefferson Parish practice facility, leased from the state for $1 per year, has been damaged so badly by federal actions after the storm that the team cannot return "for some time [if ever]."

"These actions have effectively terminated the Saints' lease for the facility and have caused great and continuing damage to the team," said the letter, signed by lawyers for the team.

Tim Coulon, head of the stadium commission and the state's negotiator with the team, said Thursday that state officials planned to inspect damage at the practice facility next week.

"If there's some damage to those buildings, we're going to rectify that," Coulon said.

Asked it he thought the letter was Benson's first step toward leaving New Orleans, Coulon said he hoped not.

"I don't want to speculate, because I haven't heard from him," Coulon said. "But it's not too late [for Benson] to step up to the plate and be the good citizen."

Under the terms of the state's contract with the team, the Saints could argue that the storm has made the stadium unusable, move to another state and avoid paying an $81 million penalty, Coulon said.

Coulon said the state would fight such a move, probably in court or in arbitration.

[Shiner Bock Girl]

So does this mean Benson can't get out of his contract if the dome is ruled usable??? This doesn't look good for SA....

[TheWriter]

So does this mean Benson can't get out of his contract if the dome is ruled usable??? This doesn't look good for SA....

He can still get out of the contract.

[Shiner Bock Girl]

He can still get out of the contract.

Their going to put a temporary roof on...LOL....GEEZZZ, why not just pitch a giant tent right next to the dome and play there....Let the players be even more humilated...

[Shiner Bock Girl]

I would think it would take many months just to disinfect the place and they said it would be ready by december...Somethings wrong with that picture if the smell is as bad as everyone said....Thats creepy...

[Shiner Bock Girl]

the saints are moving, but league lap dogs are try to spin it the other way.
(see Al Davis)

Al Davis?

[Extra Stout]

New Orleans officials are scrambling to clean up the Superdome as much as possible so they can take Benson to court when he inevitably exercises that "force majeure" clause.

They haven't played all their cards yet. My thinking is they try to tie up the move in litigation, get a Louisiana court jurisdiction, and have a judge issue an injunction against the Saints forcing them to play in New Orleans.

Will it stick? Probably not, but working through the system takes time, and that keeps the team in Louisiana a little while longer, and buys the city and Tagliabue some more time to twist the screws on Benson.

[Shiner Bock Girl]

good take......I think thats why benson's attorneys are already circling the wagons.......they are going for it and we are in for an awesome fight.

Benson not the most honest, but he is smart so he's up to something...He's also a man that does not like to lose so its going to be interesting....

[dknights411]

When your team threatens to move away, you tend to go all out to try to keep them.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

They haven't played all their cards yet. My thinking is they try to tie up the move in litigation, get a Louisiana court jurisdiction, and have a judge issue an injunction against the Saints forcing them to play in New Orleans.

:lol What are they going to do? Drive down to SA and drag everyone back there?

What good is having a stadium with a temporary roof when you don't have any residents in your city to fucking see the games?

[exstatic]

When the Force Majeur clause was first discussed, it was stated that the only thing neccessary was for an Act of God to prevent the Superdome from hosting one game. They've already failed to host three, our two, plus that HOME :rolleyes game at the Meadowlands.

I think Benson will wait for the last day to file it. Thanks to the recently fired blabbermouth, they have to play those 4 games at B.R. after the league stepped in. Those folks will not take kindly to the filing, and will probably take it out on the team. Those last two games in December are going to suck for the players.

[goliath]

My understanding from reading various articles is that the whole season doesnt have to be lost for the destruction clause to go into effect. Some even say it only has to be 1 game. If its envoked end of Nov, thats at least 4 missed games this year after its envoked and probably at least half the season next year.

Plus in the paper Monday, it had a quote from the LA Dome Authority saying they couldnt stop Benson from envoking it and getting out of it.

Further, the NFL doesnt want to stay in NO. I laugh every time I hear Saint fan act like he is their savior. He wants the team in Los Angl. Peter King first reported when Katrina hit that Tags plan was for 1 year in BR then to Los Angl

[exstatic]

Further, the NFL doesnt want to stay in NO. I laugh every time I hear Saint fan act like he is their savior. He wants the team in Los Angl.

Exactly.

I remember that article on the Force Majeur. Everyone did already act like the criteria had been met, and it only had to be invoked. I think Benson has played this pretty smart. He's giving them all the rope they want, and Nagin is running with it and throwing it over the branch. :lol

[TheWriter]

Even if Benson doesn't win the force majeur, he simply has to pay the state 81 million a poof he's out of his contract.

[tgrgrd00]

My understanding from reading various articles is that the whole season doesnt have to be lost for the destruction clause to go into effect. Some even say it only has to be 1 game. If its envoked end of Nov, thats at least 4 missed games this year after its envoked and probably at least half the season next year.


When the Force Majeur clause was first discussed, it was stated that the only thing neccessary was for an Act of God to prevent the Superdome from hosting one game. They've already failed to host three, our two, plus that HOME game at the Meadowlands.


http://forms.belointeractive.com/sharedcontent/datafiles/1128894548844_ORIGINAL_DiningRoom_After3.jpg




Just a reminder of what Force Majeur really means.

It is really great they get to enforce the Force Majeur clause isn't it????

[ChumpDumper]

So you'd rather have state money going into Benson's pocket than to, say, fixing houses like the one pictured.

Understood.

You're being done a favor -- now we get to waste money on Benson.

[tgrgrd00]

So you'd rather have state money going into Benson's pocket than to, say, fixing houses like the one pictured.

Understood.

You're being done a favor -- now we get to waste money on Benson.

No I am saying it took destruction like this in order for the contract to be broken and people are happy about it and are looking forward to when the "destruction" clause will go in to effect.

Don't do us anymore more favors if this is what you consider a favor.

[ChumpDumper]

No I am saying it took destruction like this in order for the contract to be broken and people are happy about it and are looking forward to when the "destruction" clause will go in to effect.Yeah, we were dancing in the streets when Katrina hit, idiot.
Don't do us anymore more favors if this is what you consider a favor.If you want to give Tom even more money than you promised before, when half your city now doesn't exist, be my guest. Nice priorities you've got there.

[tgrgrd00]

Yeah, we were dancing in the streets when Katrina hit, idiot.If you want to give Tom even more money than you promised before, when half your city now doesn't exist, be my guest. Nice priorities you've got there.

Sure looks like you are dancing in the streets now. I guess it makes it ok because it is 7 weeks later.

I noticed S.A. has their priorities in order too.

1.)help the people

2.)steal their team

Let this state worry about how much we pay Benson and how we do it. You have your priorities and we have ours.

The Saints economic impact in the long run is well worth whatever we pay them...saying that we can't afford them is a sorry excuse for your mayors etc. actions.

[ChumpDumper]

Sure looks like you are dancing in the streets now.Go fuck yourself. I don't think the team will end up here and have no say one way or the other.
Let this state worry about how much we pay Benson and how we do it.How much do you want the state to pay?

What rebuilding effort would you like to turn down because the money is earmarked for Benson's pocket?

A hospital?

A neighborhood?

What is Tom Benson's bottom line really worth to you?

Give me the answer in millions.

[goliath]

Even if Benson doesn't win the force majeur, he simply has to pay the state 81 million a poof he's out of his contract.

Thats why Nagins a dumbass for his comments yesterday. Who knows maybe Benson is forced to pay the $81 mil. Maybe then he rethinks his stance. But with Nagin and other La politicians telling him to go to hell he may pay it out of spite and because La burnt its bridges.

As for the dome comments, its all just spin.

The only hope NO has of getting the "Cleveland plan" is to play up the "Benson is the devil" card. Say the domes ok so when Benson opts out, the general uninformed population will get up in arms. I mean come on...."Other than the big ass holes in the roof, the domes ok" :rolleyes

[exstatic]

Hey turdgrid - Portland is stealing your musicians!!! Sic 'em!!!

[tgrgrd00]

Go fuck yourself. I don't think the team will end up here and have no say one way or the other.How much do you want the state to pay?

What rebuilding effort would you like to turn down because the money is earmarked for Benson's pocket?

A hospital?

A neighborhood?

What is Tom Benson's bottom line really worth to you?

Give me the answer in millions.

We should pay Benson what we agreed to pay Benson.

Hospitals have insurance.

Houses in neighborhoods have insurance too.

The state is going to recieve billions in federal aid for rebuilding and reconstruction projects.

The major hotels in the city are going to be at 100% by February. Mardi Gras is going to happen and so is Jazz Fest. The casino is going to be open shortly. The oil and gas rigs are coming back on line daily.

These are all ways by which we pay Benson his ransom...I don't see why any rebuilding effort would have to be left out.

You must understand that long term...paying Benson his money is the best thing for the city and the state. Once we are guaranteed another Super Bowl. Every payment made to the evil owner is worth it. We can't be short sighted here.

Oh and why was the "go fuck yourself" necessary? Your mayor sure seems to be dancing in the streets per say about the opportunity.

[Marcus Bryant]

Has the Super Bowl always been played in a NFL stadium?

[tgrgrd00]

Has the Super Bowl always been played in a NFL stadium?

I'm not sure as far as history back to the start of the league.

I know that now the Super Bowl can only be played in an NFL stadium. We have been told numerous times that if/when we lose the Saints we can't get any more Super Bowls.

[Marcus Bryant]

Ever hear of Pasadena, CA?

[tgrgrd00]

Ever hear of Pasadena, CA?

When was the last Super Bowl in Pasedena?

[samikeyp]

Super Bowl XXVII Dallas and Buffalo

[tgrgrd00]

Ok so that would be like 1993 or so and I think every superbowl through 2010 has been awared to an NFL city.

My point is...good luck getting a Superbowl in a non NFL city these days.

[samikeyp]

At the time, LA was still an NFL city. Since that SB the NFL passed a rule not allowing the game to be held in a non-NFL city. Although given NO's history with the game (10 total) I think a pass would be and should be given if they do not have a team.

Pasadena also hosted SB's 11, 17, 14, and 21.
Rice Stadium (although in an NFL city but not staduim) hosted SB 8
Palo Alto, CA is the only non NFL city to host a SB when they hosted SB 19 at Stanford Stadium.

[j-6]

Palo Alto, CA is the only non NFL city to host a SB when they hosted SB 19 at Stanford Stadium.

The Marino and Montana game, right?

I'm pretty sure the game was played in Palo Alto because the stadium held more people than the Stick or Oakland Coliseum (or Memorial over in Berkeley).

[samikeyp]

The Marino and Montana game, right?

You are correct, sir.

That was probably the reason.

[ChumpDumper]

You must understand that long term...paying Benson his money is the best thing for the city and the state. Once we are guaranteed another Super Bowl. Every payment made to the evil owner is worth it. We can't be short sighted here.You're being incredibly short-sighted here. Estimates are up to 1/3 of your population isn't coming back. Are you willing to give Benson even more than $20 million a year after 2010 because the market is even less able to support a franchise than it was when the $20 million/year subsidy was approved?

You still haven't said how many millions you're willing to give Benson every year once the contract is voided.

If all you're worrying about is the Super Bowl, let the Saints go now -- you'll be guaranteed one out of pity if nothing else.
Oh and why was the "go fuck yourself" necessary? Your mayor sure seems to be dancing in the streets per say about the opportunity.Then say "your mayor" and not me, dipshit. I'd respect you more if you didn't back down from your insults.

[Horry For 3!]

It doesn't matter if the Dome is playable, they're are not many people in NO to go to the games, why have it there..... Benson will not want to play there, he can be making more money in San Antonio than New Orleans so I expect the Saints to be playing in San Antonio next year.

[tgrgrd00]

You're being incredibly short-sighted here. Estimates are up to 1/3 of your population isn't coming back. Are you willing to give Benson even more than $20 million a year after 2010 because the market is even less able to support a franchise than it was when the $20 million/year subsidy was approved?.

Being short sighted is saying that 1/3 of the population isn't coming back. People in LA love LA and once they get the opportunity they will be back. They may be more spread out in the suburbs and North Shore but they will be back in the area. I know several people who are chomping at the bit to move back in to the city. I personally don't know anyone who isn't back or planning on coming back (not that there isn't anyone like that).

See if Benson was smart he would be in the city right now helping us rebuild. He could have his choice of land and have a new stadium with 1000 of his precious suites in the rebuilding plan.

You are presenting me with a loaded question that I can't answer. I don't know what the situation is going to be in 2010. Do you? You can assume there are going to be less people and less of a market. I can assume that there will be more people and even more of a market.



You still haven't said how many millions you're willing to give Benson every year once the contract is voided.

I would give him what he and the state agreed to in any new contract. I don't know any exact amount. I am not the governor or the mayor or anyone else who has anything to do with any amount he is paid. We would probably pay him whatever amount he demands with our hotel/motel tax and casino revenue.

Texas has already said his isn't going to get any state money so I really don't know how S.A. is going to be more profitable for Benson anyway.


If all you're worrying about is the Super Bowl, let the Saints go now -- you'll be guaranteed one out of pity if nothing else..

I'm not just worried about a Super Bowl. I have cheared this team on my entire life. Super Bowls are the bonus that brings in a lot of money to the city which helps to justify paying tax money to keep the team.


Then say "your mayor" and not me, dipshit. I'd respect you more if you didn't back down from your insults.

Your mayor represents YOU. I don't back down from anything. I never used your name once.

You can continue to insult me with names all you want it just shows your lack of dignity.

[Horry For 3!]

Actually, tgrgrd00, all of the people I know that used to live in NO are not coming back to live there.

[Horry For 3!]

See if Benson was smart he would be in the city right now helping us rebuild. He could have his choice of land and have a new stadium with 1000 of his precious suites in the rebuilding plan.

It seems as Benson doesn't want to be there, so why would he? I really think he wants them to stay in San Antonio.

[Marcus Bryant]

It doesn't matter if the Dome is playable, they're are not many people in NO to go to the games, why have it there..... Benson will not want to play there, he can be making more money in San Antonio than New Orleans so I expect the Saints to be playing in San Antonio next year.

It does have to do with population, but moreso to do with the dearth of sponsorship $ in New Orleans. That, as well as about 100,000 more TV households in the SA market plus close proximity to another market roughly the same size in Austin is why SA is more attractive. Some say the Saints are a regional team, but I'd say that the Valley is just about as attractive a market as South Louisiana and Mississippi.

[samikeyp]

Your mayor represents YOU. I don't back down from anything. I never used your name once.

He represents the city but not neccessarily everyones opinions.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Sure looks like you are dancing in the streets now. I guess it makes it ok because it is 7 weeks later.

I noticed S.A. has their priorities in order too.

1.)help the people

2.)steal their team

Let this state worry about how much we pay Benson and how we do it. You have your priorities and we have ours.

The Saints economic impact in the long run is well worth whatever we pay them...saying that we can't afford them is a sorry excuse for your mayors etc. actions.

Dude, if everyone down there is as fucked up in the head as you, the Saints deserve better.

Saints economic impact? Companies have to have businesses up and running. People have to have houses to live in. Visiting teams and tourists have to have hotels to stay in.

Right now NO has none of that, 75% of the city is going to have to be raised, and you're fucking whining about football?

Wake up.

No one here is happy about Katrina. But like I said - if you represent the typical New Orleanian, good riddance. NO and the state of Louisiana have a lot bigger problems to deal with than football.

Take the 500 million Blanco would have to spend to get the Saints to stay in NO and put it towards housing and infrastructure repairs.

Oh wait, you can just call FEMA have them write a check for the Saints, the rest of America will pick up that tab for you

[tgrgrd00]

He represents the city but not neccessarily everyones opinions.

True...but what everyone hears is his opinions.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The state is going to recieve billions in federal aid for rebuilding and reconstruction projects.

You're definitely a Louisianan. Government welfare is the only thing you know. Fitting that you want the government to give your state and city more money for rebuilding and take money that would have been devoted to the rebuilding effort to pay off Benson to stay.

Again, the federal government and taxpayers of America aren't here to help NO subsidize the New Orleans Saints.

Fuck that (and anyone who wants to try and use that as an argument about funding).

[Vashner]

I say we send a couple F16's from Lackland over... 4 1000'lbers on the structure should do the trick.

[samikeyp]

True...but what everyone hears is his opinions.

agreed but you have to acknowledge the fact that not all San Antonians may not feel the same way he does or, in my case, do not agree with his methods.

[tgrgrd00]

Dude, if everyone down there is as fucked up in the head as you, the Saints deserve better.

Saints economic impact? Companies have to have businesses up and running. People have to have houses to live in. Visiting teams and tourists have to have hotels to stay in.

Right now NO has none of that, 75% of the city is going to have to be raised, and you're fucking whining about football?

B.S. There are many companies up and running with more returning daily. Nobody knows how much of the city is going to have to be raised...I don't know where you get this number from. Downtown N.O. was comparatively unharmed.

I'm not saying N.O. could sustain a team today. I am thinking about the future. Without the Saints the city and state will be worse off than before when you look 5 years down the road. This isn't just about football.

Downtown hotels are going to be 100% by February. Mardi Gras is going to happen but you are telling me that tourists and teams will have no where to stay? Tourist are already coming in to the city just for the "shock" factor.


Wake up.

No one here is happy about Katrina. But like I said - if you represent the typical New Orleanian, good riddance. NO and the state of Louisiana have a lot bigger problems to deal with than football.

Yes, we do. So that gives anyone the right to take our team? So S.A. starts courting our team while we have bigger things to worry about. How nice of them. Turn your backs and repair your city while we take your team.

"Ignore that man behind the curtain." F dat.




Take the 500 million Blanco would have to spend to get the Saints to stay in NO and put it towards housing and infrastructure repairs.Oh wait, you can just call FEMA have them write a check for the Saints, the rest of America will pick up that tab for you



Your right LA does have bigger problems. We are constantly being screwed by the federal government. Not just FEMA and the legislators not wanting to give us federal aid anymore. It started waaayy before Katrina.

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers built and designed the levees that failed. But LA is supposed to fend for ourselves when they fail?

We aren't asking for any handouts from America. How about we start by the Federal government just giving us what Texas gets and we don't have to worry about any of this?

Why does Texas get oil and gas royalties 9 miles offshore while LA only gets royalties up to 3 miles offshore? If we would just get what Texas gets we could stop the coastal erosion ourselves.

Annually the federal gov. gets $5 billion from royalties drilled of of the LA coast. LA got $30 million of $5 billion. We went to congress and asked for a little more share of the royalties (or at least what Texas and Florida get) and we get shot down. We only want to use this money to help save our coast and our buffer against storms.

On top of all this the Oil and Gas companies are mostly responsible for the coastal erosion problems. They dredged pipeline canals all throughout the marsh that allows saltwater intrusion to erode the marsh and break down our barrier against hurricanes. Oh and what do you think taking all of that oil, gas and sulpher out of the ground is going to do? Make it sink?

I can go on and on about how we get screwed all the time...how about how they are building open loop LNG terminals that suck up billions of gallons of Gulf water killing marine life by the billions. Where are they building these terminals? Off the coast of LA that is where....what do we get out of it. A bunch of dead fish.

I don't want to hear shit about handouts and FEMA...we just want what is owed to us.

Stop taking us for granted. We are pissed off and this bickering about federal aid when it is the federal gov. who caused all of the problems is not making it any better.

It must be nice having a President from your home state. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Maybe he can pull some strings and help you get the Saints!

[tgrgrd00]

You're definitely a Louisianan. Government welfare is the only thing you know. Fitting that you want the government to give your state and city more money for rebuilding and take money that would have been devoted to the rebuilding effort to pay off Benson to stay.

Again, the federal government and taxpayers of America aren't here to help NO subsidize the New Orleans Saints.

Fuck that (and anyone who wants to try and use that as an argument about funding).

Fine, don't be surprised if you see our National Guard at the borders guarding our oil and gas pipelines. If our gov. had any balls (no pun intended) it would be done already.

Go get your oil and gas from Florida...oh wait.

[samikeyp]

Fine, don't be surprised if you see our National Guard at the borders guarding our oil and gas pipelines. If our gov. had any balls (no pun intended) it would be done already.

Go get your oil and gas from Florida...oh wait.

Why, when we could use our own?

[tgrgrd00]

Why, when we could use our own?

Well not Texas necessarily but the rest of the country who depends on the oil and gas that comes through our states.

[ChumpDumper]

Being short sighted is saying that 1/3 of the population isn't coming back. People in LA love LA and once they get the opportunity they will be back.Take it up withe those who are staying here.
See if Benson was smart he would be in the city right now helping us rebuild. He could have his choice of land and have a new stadium with 1000 of his precious suites in the rebuilding plan.I'm sure that's one of his plans.
You are presenting me with a loaded question that I can't answer. I don't know what the situation is going to be in 2010. Do you? You can assume there are going to be less people and less of a market. I can assume that there will be more people and even more of a market.But you have to sign a deal now. The question has to be answered. Admitting you aren't informed enough is fine, just quit speaking like you do know.
I would give him what he and the state agreed to in any new contract. I don't know any exact amount. I am not the governor or the mayor or anyone else who has anything to do with any amount he is paid. We would probably pay him whatever amount he demands with our hotel/motel tax and casino revenue.So you would pay any price to Tom Benson to keep the Saints. Fine. Just say so. You can bet taxpayers here will voice their opinion about how much to pay for an NFL team.
Texas has already said his isn't going to get any state moneyNot in a direct subsidy -- our government types are much smarter than that.
So I really don't know how S.A. is going to be more profitable for Benson anyway.The very fact that Benson is considering moving here without a subsidy should probably tell you something. Not every city has to pay a direct bribe to keep a team in town. SA will have to pay more than your average NFL market, that has been proven time and again -- but to my knowledge they haven't had to hit up the state to the tune of $20 million a year.
I'm not just worried about a Super Bowl. I have cheared this team on my entire life. Super Bowls are the bonus that brings in a lot of money to the city which helps to justify paying tax money to keep the team.So $20 million every year justifies the chance of getting a few million every few years from a Super Bowl?
Your mayor represents YOU.I live in Austin. nice try.
I don't back down from anything. I never used your name once. "You" is a pronoun representing me. If you meant "the mayor of San Antonio" why did you call him "you"? i await the backtrack.
You can continue to insult me with names all you want it just shows your lack of dignity.I see you haven't been here long. I'll call someone a dipshit if he is one.

And I don't back down because I do it right the first time.

[ChumpDumper]

Fine, don't be surprised if you see our National Guard at the borders guarding our oil and gas pipelines. If our gov. had any balls (no pun intended) it would be done already.Then Bush just federalizes the guard and you look like idiots.

Nice try.

[tgrgrd00]

But you have to sign a deal now. The question has to be answered. Admitting you aren't informed enough is fine, just quit speaking like you do know.

No we don't. We have a contract through 2010 and it has not been ended by either party yet.


So you would pay any price to Tom Benson to keep the Saints. Fine. Just say so. You can bet taxpayers here will voice their opinion about how much to pay for an NFL team.

B.S. Don't put words in my mouth...I never said that.

[ChumpDumper]

No we don't. We have a contract through 2010 and it has not been ended by either party yet. And if it is?

How much?
B.S. Don't put words in my mouth...I never said that.Then give a number. As an informed, taxpaying voter you must certainly have a threshold of tolerance regarding the amount of money you would pay Tom Benson directly in the very likely event that the current contract is voided before the end of this month, don't you?

Or are you telling me you will be completely lost if the contract is voided?

[TheWriter]

I'm pretty sure Benson can get out of that contract two ways.

1) The force majure.

2) Just pay 81 million to the state.

He's going to be doing the first.

[New Orleans Saints Fan]

And if it is?

How much?Then give a number. As an informed, taxpaying voter you must certainly have a threshold of tolerance regarding the amount of money you would pay Tom Benson directly in the very likely event that the current contract is voided before the end of this month, don't you?

Or are you telling me you will be completely lost if the contract is voided?

Honestly I think if the contract is voided we are most likely completely out of the picture with Benson.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Nobody knows how much of the city is going to have to be raised...I don't know where you get this number from

70% of the city was underwater. This is what's known as a fact. Do you understand what water does to structures, particularly wooden ones? Concrete used in buildings was also not built to be underwater for a month.

It's called civil engineering 101.


Fine, don't be surprised if you see our National Guard at the borders guarding our oil and gas pipelines. If our gov. had any balls (no pun intended) it would be done already.

Go get your oil and gas from Florida...oh wait.

:lol You realize that something like 70% of all gas consumed in the US has gone through refineries in Houston, right?


Your right LA does have bigger problems. We are constantly being screwed by the federal government. Not just FEMA and the legislators not wanting to give us federal aid anymore. It started waaayy before Katrina.

Maybe if your state wasn't the shining example of socialist governmental welfare, people with brains wouldn't have the reservations they're having.

Considering your dipshit legislators asked for enough money for La. so that every single person in the state could build like a $300K dream home, thank God someone in D.C. is doing something besides handing out blank checks.

[exstatic]

Honestly I think if the contract is voided we are most likely completely out of the picture with Benson.

Not necessarily. Word is that he will void the lease, schedule 2006 in SA, and leave the door open. Translate: the bidding will open.

[McKenzie]

After scanning many threads, I've learned we can fucking cuss here. Cool. :)

I'm a Louisiana native who has been forced to live in Texas for a long time. I love my home town, Nawlins. I've driven over there for YEARS to watch the Saints play. I understand that the $125 mil will be to rip out the interior of the Dome and replace it due to bio-hazard. Otherwise, I sure won't be going in there and you can bet that the Player's Association won't allow the players in there if it's not 100% clean.

Anyone know anyone who has personally entered the Dome since Katrina? I do. It's fucking unreal. A total nightmare. Clean by December 1st? LMFAO!

[Extra Stout]

70% of the city was underwater. This is what's known as a fact. Do you understand what water does to structures, particularly wooden ones? Concrete used in buildings was also not built to be underwater for a month.Once the support beams warp, wooden buildings become structurally unsound and uninhabitable. Every wooden building that was underwater for any length of time is up for condemnation.

With concrete, it depends. Some of those buildings in New Orleans very well may have been built to resist flooding, even extended flooding. It depends how well the concrete was sealed, if it was sealed at all.

Ordinarily, concrete is porous, and if immersed for an extended period of time, the rebar oxidizes and expands, which spalls the concrete. If this is superficial, it's no big deal. Otherwise, the building is structurally unsound and uninhabitable.

If the concrete is coated or sealed, the buildings may be salvageable.


:lol You realize that something like 70% of all gas consumed in the US has gone through refineries in Houston, right? He likes to spout off about how rich Louisiana would be if it were independent, because of this reason and that.

But with all those resources, shouldn't Louisiana be rich now?

Most other states are viewing wealth more in terms of knowledge and services, since that's where our economy is going. It's why, for example, the U.S. still has a growing economy, despite sky-high energy prices that in the past would have triggered a deep recession.

The Louisiana mindset still views wealth primarily as a function of natural resources and industry, which is another reason they trail the rest of the country.

His diatribe about how rich Louisiana would become based upon the duties it would force us to pay is yet another sign of antediluvian economic thinking. It's the thinking that led to the Great Depression. Restrictions to trade inhibit wealth; they don't create it, in this world economy. It's not 1800 anymore.

And I bet our friend is a well-educated, relatively successful person. But he's a product of a society that is totally backwards compared to the wealthier states, be they red or blue. It's like a time warp -- they even have blue-dog conservative Southern Democrats, still, a species that started fading in Texas in the 1980's, and pretty much had died out 10 years ago.

And our friend remains under the pleasant delusion that everybody that fled Louisiana inevitably will go back because it's so super-wonderful and they love it. Well, I've met many folks who already have found new jobs, are shocked at how high their salary is, and at how low the cost of living is, and at how much nicer the neighboorhoods and schools and roads and everything else are, and aren't ever going back. And it's not as if I'm living in a beautiful, well-run place. It's just that New Orleans was that bad, and that for those living there who never got the opportunity to see how other Americans live, ignorance was bliss.

Perhaps for the folks at the top of the economic food chain who sent their kids to private schools, and whose jobs are still there, there's reason to go back. But if you think the New Orleans area will be anywhere back near 1.3 million people within the next decade, you're in denial.


Maybe if your state wasn't the shining example of socialist governmental welfare, people with brains wouldn't have the reservations they're having.I wouldn't call Louisiana politics "socialist" by any stretch of the imagination. That's an idiotic right-wing talking point. Massachusetts is "socialist:" high taxes, big government.

In Louisiana, taxation for individuals is extremely low, and services are even lower. It's business taxes and corruption that siphon off people's wealth -- the extreme difficulty in doing business compared to Texas keeps jobs away, and their own politicans steal whatever money they do pay in taxes. It's like a Central American or Carribean banana republic, not Euro-style "social democracy."

Katrina should be an opportunity for Louisiana to look at how their way of doing things has let them down, and perhaps finally to start the meaningful reforms that will make their state competitive with those around them, and stop their slow, inextricable decline. Instead, it sounds like our buddy already has digested the talking points about how poor, poor Louisiana got a raw deal from the federal government and how much it deserves. This inability to practice introspection and take responsibility for one's own failures is the hallmark of dysfunctional societies, and I suppose our neighbors to the east won't be leaving that fold anytime soon.

I'll bet that mindset also lies behind this Saints controversy. Poor, poor us, we deserve our Saints, Benson has a lot of money, so he should take pity on us and keep his team here, and if he can't afford it, then the other owners should help him pay for it, because we deserve it,and if they won't, then Congress should give us money to keep them. Gimme, gimme, gimme.

Instead of saying, "Let's get the Saints in the fold, they're important to the local economy, they're a visible symbol of the city, and a new or substantially refurbished facility needs to be part of the campaign to redevelop New Orleans, as a new, vibrant cultural and economic center," we hear "let's patch the Superdome back together, put some tarp on the roof, do the bare minimum for decontamination, and buy off a judge to force them to play there."

My biggest fear is that all this money will be spent in New Orleans, and we'll have a city that's no less blighted, rebuilt in the same low spots, without much meaningful new infrastructure, with no real plan other than sprucing up the downtown tourist districts and handing out earmarks to loyal cronies, with the same inherently flawed earthen levees, just higher, and only superficial attempts at wetlands restoration. We'll have a metro area of 500,000 people, just as stagnant economically, with entire districts just left there, neither rebuilt nor restored nor razed, just abandoned to the gangs with city block after city block of collapsing crack houses, while politicans three blocks away smile into the cameras as they proclaim a "reborn" New Orleans in front of the newest casino. And any problems will be just because the mean ol' federal government screwed them over again, and by the way, NFL, where's our new football team? Because that's how things are done in Louisiana.

Our friend may hate to hear it, but it's the truth, and that state is never going to turn things around until they stop waiting for everbody else to give them their "due" and just start building. Texas gets 9 miles of royalties because it negotiates from a position of strength, while Louisiana negotiates from a position of weakness. Stop whining about how unfair it is. Reform your state to make it lean, mean, and competitive, cut out the graft and corruption and sense of entitlement and antiquated system of laws and governance, and people will deal with you in a more evenhanded way because you hold the cards and they have no other choice.

[Marcus Bryant]

If Benson is crafty enough, perhaps he can convince Tagliabue and the rest of the owners that he is indeed open to a LA move. That might make the league more hospitable to a move out of New Orleans. That might be why we are hearing that the Saints will play in SA in 2006 and then be a free agent after that.

[Marcus Bryant]

I believe the league recognizes that a team in New Orleans is simply not feasible at this time and that an owner cannot be forced to stay in such a market. The real battle is going to be SA v. LA.

[Extra Stout]

BTW, Marcus, your Saints helmet is out of date, if you care.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'm going back to the future, as it were.

[TOP-CHERRY]

Once the support beams warp, wooden buildings become structurally unsound and uninhabitable. Every wooden building that was underwater for any length of time is up for condemnation.

With concrete, it depends. Some of those buildings in New Orleans very well may have been built to resist flooding, even extended flooding. It depends how well the concrete was sealed, if it was sealed at all.

Ordinarily, concrete is porous, and if immersed for an extended period of time, the rebar oxidizes and expands, which spalls the concrete. If this is superficial, it's no big deal. Otherwise, the building is structurally unsound and uninhabitable.

If the concrete is coated or sealed, the buildings may be salvageable.

He likes to spout off about how rich Louisiana would be if it were independent, because of this reason and that.

But with all those resources, shouldn't Louisiana be rich now?

Most other states are viewing wealth more in terms of knowledge and services, since that's where our economy is going. It's why, for example, the U.S. still has a growing economy, despite sky-high energy prices that in the past would have triggered a deep recession.

The Louisiana mindset still views wealth primarily as a function of natural resources and industry, which is another reason they trail the rest of the country.

His diatribe about how rich Louisiana would become based upon the duties it would force us to pay is yet another sign of antediluvian economic thinking. It's the thinking that led to the Great Depression. Restrictions to trade inhibit wealth; they don't create it, in this world economy. It's not 1800 anymore.

And I bet our friend is a well-educated, relatively successful person. But he's a product of a society that is totally backwards compared to the wealthier states, be they red or blue. It's like a time warp -- they even have blue-dog conservative Southern Democrats, still, a species that started fading in Texas in the 1980's, and pretty much had died out 10 years ago.

And our friend remains under the pleasant delusion that everybody that fled Louisiana inevitably will go back because it's so super-wonderful and they love it. Well, I've met many folks who already have found new jobs, are shocked at how high their salary is, and at how low the cost of living is, and at how much nicer the neighboorhoods and schools and roads and everything else are, and aren't ever going back. And it's not as if I'm living in a beautiful, well-run place. It's just that New Orleans was that bad, and that for those living there who never got the opportunity to see how other Americans live, ignorance was bliss.

Perhaps for the folks at the top of the economic food chain who sent their kids to private schools, and whose jobs are still there, there's reason to go back. But if you think the New Orleans area will be anywhere back near 1.3 million people within the next decade, you're in denial.

I wouldn't call Louisiana politics "socialist" by any stretch of the imagination. That's an idiotic right-wing talking point. Massachusetts is "socialist:" high taxes, big government.

In Louisiana, taxation for individuals is extremely low, and services are even lower. It's business taxes and corruption that siphon off people's wealth -- the extreme difficulty in doing business compared to Texas keeps jobs away, and their own politicans steal whatever money they do pay in taxes. It's like a Central American or Carribean banana republic, not Euro-style "social democracy."

Katrina should be an opportunity for Louisiana to look at how their way of doing things has let them down, and perhaps finally to start the meaningful reforms that will make their state competitive with those around them, and stop their slow, inextricable decline. Instead, it sounds like our buddy already has digested the talking points about how poor, poor Louisiana got a raw deal from the federal government and how much it deserves. This inability to practice introspection and take responsibility for one's own failures is the hallmark of dysfunctional societies, and I suppose our neighbors to the east won't be leaving that fold anytime soon.

I'll bet that mindset also lies behind this Saints controversy. Poor, poor us, we deserve our Saints, Benson has a lot of money, so he should take pity on us and keep his team here, and if he can't afford it, then the other owners should help him pay for it, because we deserve it,and if they won't, then Congress should give us money to keep them. Gimme, gimme, gimme.

Instead of saying, "Let's get the Saints in the fold, they're important to the local economy, they're a visible symbol of the city, and a new or substantially refurbished facility needs to be part of the campaign to redevelop New Orleans, as a new, vibrant cultural and economic center," we hear "let's patch the Superdome back together, put some tarp on the roof, do the bare minimum for decontamination, and buy off a judge to force them to play there."

My biggest fear is that all this money will be spent in New Orleans, and we'll have a city that's no less blighted, rebuilt in the same low spots, without much meaningful new infrastructure, with no real plan other than sprucing up the downtown tourist districts and handing out earmarks to loyal cronies, with the same inherently flawed earthen levees, just higher, and only superficial attempts at wetlands restoration. We'll have a metro area of 500,000 people, just as stagnant economically, with entire districts just left there, neither rebuilt nor restored nor razed, just abandoned to the gangs with city block after city block of collapsing crack houses, while politicans three blocks away smile into the cameras as they proclaim a "reborn" New Orleans in front of the newest casino. And any problems will be just because the mean ol' federal government screwed them over again, and by the way, NFL, where's our new football team? Because that's how things are done in Louisiana.

Our friend may hate to hear it, but it's the truth, and that state is never going to turn things around until they stop waiting for everbody else to give them their "due" and just start building. Texas gets 9 miles of royalties because it negotiates from a position of strength, while Louisiana negotiates from a position of weakness. Stop whining about how unfair it is. Reform your state to make it lean, mean, and competitive, cut out the graft and corruption and sense of entitlement and antiquated system of laws and governance, and people will deal with you in a more evenhanded way because you hold the cards and they have no other choice.
Whoa.

I think you just scared our friend away.

[tgrgrd00]

70% of the city was underwater. This is what's known as a fact. Do you understand what water does to structures, particularly wooden ones? Concrete used in buildings was also not built to be underwater for a month.

It's called civil engineering 101.

70% of the CITY proper of NO may have had water. That doesn't mean that 70% of the houses are ruined and have to be raised. Some streets were under water but the houses/businesses are fine. The city of NO is only a small part of the Greater NO area. The suburbs of NO make up a majority of the population and these areas are flourishing and are recovering quite well.

I know what water does to structures. The entire roof came off of my house and water inundated the second and first floors. It is mostly wooden and is salvagable with some work. You gut the house down to the studs and bricks and treat the wood then you start rebuilding. Granted some of the places that held water for 2 weeks will be in much worse shape and will have to be raised but I believe you perception of the area where this is the case is quite exagerated.


You realize that something like 70% of all gas consumed in the US has gone through refineries in Houston, right?

Louisiana has the greatest concentration of crude oil refineries, natural gas processing plants and petrochemical production facilities in the Western Hemisphere.

Louisiana is America's third largest producer of petroleum and the third leading state in petroleum refining.

Louisiana is America's second largest producer of natural gas. It supplies slightly more than one-quarter of the total U.S. production.

There are some 3500 active oil rigs of the coast of Louisiana. How many does Texas have in comparison?

http://www.state.la.us/about_industry.htm (http://www.state.la.us/about_industry.htm)

The Louisiana Offshore Oil Port (LOOP) is a deepwater port in the Gulf of Mexico off the coast of Louisiana near the town of Port Fourchon. LOOP provides tanker offloading and temporary storage services for crude oil transported on some of the largest tankers in the world. Most tankers offloading at LOOP are too large for U.S. inland ports. LOOP handles 13 percent of the nation's foreign oil, about 1.2 million barrels a day, and connects by pipeline to 35 percent of the U.S. refining capability. This is just one pipeline that goes through LA and it provides 35% of the oil refined in the U.S.

I would love to see some confirmation of your 70% number. The oil may be refined in the Houston area but the oil being refined has to come from somewhere.


But with all those resources, shouldn't Louisiana be rich now?

We would be if we were awarded our fair share.


Most other states are viewing wealth more in terms of knowledge and services, since that's where our economy is going. It's why, for example, the U.S. still has a growing economy, despite sky-high energy prices that in the past would have triggered a deep recession.

Oh yea the people of LA have zero knowledge and we have no services whatsoever, that is what makes us poor. How about if we get the same money Texas and Florida and Alaska are entitled to so we use our money, services and knowlege to repair our coast?


The Louisiana mindset still views wealth primarily as a function of natural resources and industry, which is another reason they trail the rest of the country.

His diatribe about how rich Louisiana would become based upon the duties it would force us to pay is yet another sign of antediluvian economic thinking. It's the thinking that led to the Great Depression. Restrictions to trade inhibit wealth; they don't create it, in this world economy. It's not 1800 anymore.

I'm not asking for any duties that other states are not receiving. It is suppressionist antediluvian thinking like yours that led to segragation and womanizing. It's not the 1800's anymore. I never said we needed any more restrictions to trade than what is occurring now across the U.S. We only want want everyone else is entitled to.


You act as if LA doesn't have schools or institutions of higher learning. We have programs that reward scholarships to high school students who meet high standards.


And I bet our friend is a well-educated, relatively successful person. But he's a product of a society that is totally backwards compared to the wealthier states, be they red or blue. It's like a time warp -- they even have blue-dog conservative Southern Democrats, still, a species that started fading in Texas in the 1980's, and pretty much had died out 10 years ago.

Oh and I suppose this wealth you speak of is knowledge and services.

I am here to tell you that your shit does stink just like everyone elses. Blue dog conservative democrats? C'mon man. We have as many of those as you have Branch Davidians.


Katrina should be an opportunity for Louisiana to look at how their way of doing things has let them down, and perhaps finally to start the meaningful reforms that will make their state competitive with those around them, and stop their slow, inextricable decline. Instead, it sounds like our buddy already has digested the talking points about how poor, poor Louisiana got a raw deal from the federal government and how much it deserves. This inability to practice introspection and take responsibility for one's own failures is the hallmark of dysfunctional societies, and I suppose our neighbors to the east won't be leaving that fold anytime soon.

Your right Katrina is a huge opportunity for LA to change some of our ways. You spewing your rhetoric about how backwards we are and trying to steal our football team doesn't help any. Thanks for the support.

These aren't talking points....these are facts. Yeah LA isn't perfect you don't need much introspection to realize that. But I mean when you have representatives like Tom DeLay it is easy to point fingers.

We have been getting a raw deal from the federal government for decades. I said it before Katrina and I say it after Katrina.


I'll bet that mindset also lies behind this Saints controversy. Poor, poor us, we deserve our Saints, Benson has a lot of money, so he should take pity on us and keep his team here, and if he can't afford it, then the other owners should help him pay for it, because we deserve it,and if they won't, then Congress should give us money to keep them. Gimme, gimme, gimme.

Instead of saying, "Let's get the Saints in the fold, they're important to the local economy, they're a visible symbol of the city, and a new or substantially refurbished facility needs to be part of the campaign to redevelop New Orleans, as a new, vibrant cultural and economic center," we hear "let's patch the Superdome back together, put some tarp on the roof, do the bare minimum for decontamination, and buy off a judge to force them to play there."

B.S. I presented the new stadium plan and new contract through 2030 in several threads. I have presented the fact that they are important to the local economy several times as well as how they are most recognizable organization.

The refurbishing the superdome argument you are hearing is only for a temporary place to play. I mean hell we have to do something because someone is trying to steal our team and we can't possibly build a new stadium by next season. I mean WTF do you expect...just roll over and die?


My biggest fear is that all this money will be spent in New Orleans, and we'll have a city that's no less blighted, rebuilt in the same low spots, without much meaningful new infrastructure, with no real plan other than sprucing up the downtown tourist districts and handing out earmarks to loyal cronies, with the same inherently flawed earthen levees, just higher, and only superficial attempts at wetlands restoration.

The reason money isn't getting out to local goverments as quickly as it should is because they are making sure it is getting used correctly.

Not one "earthen" levee failed! Only the inherently flawed concrete levees failed. The earthen leveed performed flawlessley through the whole thing. Spending money on building earthen levees higher is nothing to fear. Besides the money for the levees will go to the US Army Corps of Engineers.

The only comment that really pisses me off in your whole attempt at degrading the great people of LA is that we would make superficial attempts at restoring our wetlands. This is complet bullshit! We have real plans and ability to restore our wetlands. Have you seen the Islands they are building over in Dubai I think it is. We can do it if we have the funding. You need to rethink your fears regarding this cause because you are waaaaaayyyy off.


Our friend may hate to hear it, but it's the truth, and that state is never going to turn things around until they stop waiting for everbody else to give them their "due" and just start building. Texas gets 9 miles of royalties because it negotiates from a position of strength, while Louisiana negotiates from a position of weakness. Stop whining about how unfair it is. Reform your state to make it lean, mean, and competitive, cut out the graft and corruption and sense of entitlement and antiquated system of laws and governance, and people will deal with you in a more evenhanded way because you hold the cards and they have no other choice.

What? This is your reasoning? Does your strength come from the fact that Pres. Bush is from Texas? I don't get it. I thought this great country of ours was built on equality.

I am not whining I am downright bitching. I think Texas should only get 3 miles worth of royalties because DeLay is being investigated for corruption.

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones at others.

The people of LA aren't asking for anything that other states are not getting, we don't feel as if we are entitled to anything over and above anyone else. Just treat us equally....that is all.


Whoa.

I think you just scared our friend away.

No....I'm not scared. it is a busy time around here. I wish I had more time to sit at the computer...that would be nice.

[SWC Bonfire]

It's called civil engineering 101.

I thought civil engineering 101 was "you can't push a rope and shit flows downhill" ?:lol

[McKenzie]

My bad. I thought the Hornets were calling themselves the Oklahoma City/New Orleans Hornets these days.

I may be from Louisiana, but I've been raised up here in Texas for about 30 some odd years. I love my birthplace and I've spent YEARS driving back and forth to be "at home" and watch the Saints, live at the SuperDome, but day-um! There is a terrible amont of freeloading and unemployment going on there. I have to hug my Daddy for moving us out, bringing us to Texas and sending all 7 of us to college so we wouldn't be waiting around Kelly USA for our $2000 ATM cards someday.

Continue the bickering. It's fun to read.