Inside the tension between Kawhi Leonard and the Spurs - Woj

[SAGirl]

I think DPG is referring to Michael Wright's information, that the Spurs gave up all control of Kawhi's rehab as of August 8th, and that the current doctor (the one in NYC) is doctor #3. So from August 8th, medical opinion/clearance/etc. have been coming from Kawh's doctor(s) (At least, that's what I got out of the interview.)
thanks for clearing that up toki9

[dbreiden83080]

His condition is related to a series of contusions from two years ago? What in the world is that shit? You recover from that shit. How fragile is this guy? So his quad hurts because somebody kneed him hard in the quad from two years ago? Are they serious?

[hater]

Ship his ass out asap

[SAGirl]

Doctor shopping.
yea... there is a huge difference between an irreversible degenerative chronic injury and one that can be rehabbed and come back from at %

So far the scales are tilting towards chronic and degenerative.

[coachmac87]

Where on Earth did you come up with that? He's been CLEARED TO PLAY by the Spurs.

Uhhhh yeah he’s been cleared...but he’s got tendonopathy which is chronic injury with no way of truly healing..something he’ll have to deal with.

If that’s true..is he damaged goods? Worth the max? I dunno. You tell me

[offset formation]

Dennis man, what makes you think you're the millionaire talent when you're piggybacking off your nephew, son?

:lmao

[MaNu4Tres]

Uhhhh yeah he’s been cleared...but he’s got tendonopathy which is chronic injury with no way of truly healing..something he’ll have to deal with.

If that’s true..is he damaged goods? Worth the max? I dunno. You tell me

Leonards group is saying it's the muscle, not the tendon. Spurs were the ones who diagnosed the tendinopathy -- but still maintained he was cleared to play.

[exstatic]

Uhhhh yeah he’s been cleared...but he’s got tendonopathy which is chronic injury with no way of truly healing..something he’ll have to deal with.

If that’s true..is he damaged goods? Worth the max? I dunno. You tell me

He's not worth the MAX, because his group wants him elsewhere. If he's offered the SuperMax, and signs it, look for more mysterious medical issues to manifest. If we have to trade him, don't reward him in the process.

[coachmac87]

Leonards group is saying it's the muscle, not the tendon. Spurs were the ones who diagnosed the tendinopathy -- but still maintained he was cleared to play.

I know that’s what I said in my previous post.

Still trying to figure out who was right and who was wrong cause that’s the 219M question...

[Chinook]

Where on Earth did you come up with that? He's been CLEARED TO PLAY by the Spurs.

So? Being cleared to play isn't a bill of clean health. If Kawhi has a chronic injury that will not improve with rest, then there's no point in sitting him out. Tim was injured most of his career, but the team still cleared him.

[rjv]

as usual, some ST posters coming to their own medical conclusions. there are so many complex variables surrounding tendinophathy and so many specific and unique circumstances to each patient, that making conclusions about the long-term prospects of leonard, health-wise, is just guessing.

[MaNu4Tres]

as usual, some ST posters coming to their own medical conclusions. there are so many complex variables surrounding tendinophathy and so many specific and unique circumstances to each patient, that making conclusions about the long-term prospects of leonard, health-wise, is just guessing.

Spurs shouldn't offer the super max. Especially if they are left on the dark by Kawhis Uncle/ "camp" in regards to his injury ( they've been in 100% control of Kawhi since August 8th)..

Spurs can still try to mend the relationship without the super max.

[exstatic]

Spurs shouldn't offer the super max. Especially if they are left on the dark by Kawhis Uncle/ "camp" in regards to his injury ( they've been in 100% control of Kawhi since August 8th)..

Spurs can still try to mend the relationship without the super max.

Every indication is that is a non-starter. Less than the SuperMax is an exit strategy for his 'group'. If they won't SM him, they need to trade him this summer, preferably at the draft so we know what we're getting.

[MaNu4Tres]

Every indication is that is a non-starter. Less than the SuperMax is an exit strategy for his 'group'. If they won't SM him, they need to trade him this summer, preferably at the draft so we know what we're getting.

That process should have or could have already started. And if Kawhi & his group use it as an out, then he doesn't want to be here.

Spurs would be dumb to wait til June to figure it out. I'm pretty sure they already have a good grasp on where Kawhis group stands & what they should do next -- even if the public and media think it hasn't been addressed yet.

[rjv]

Spurs shouldn't offer the super max. Especially if they are left on the dark by Kawhis Uncle/ "camp" in regards to his injury ( they've been in 100% control of Kawhi since August 8th)..

Spurs can still try to mend the relationship without the super max.

we don't know what the spurs medical opinion is or to what extent they are "in the dark" or if what they may not know to this point has any impact on any long-term considerations. if the spurs don't offer the super-max, it wouldn't be far-fetched to infer that it's because of the spurs long term prognosis for leonard lacks confidence. if the spurs do offer the max, one could reasonably infer the opposite.

[baseline bum]

Kawhi's uncle needs to go back to Compton and build a home there.

Probably get involved in the drug game while he's there.

Compton has actually become a pretty hot housing market allegedly with how ridiculous home prices are in LA. Just like Furious was telling Rick and Tre 27 years ago.

[daslicer]

Compton has actually become a pretty hot housing market allegedly with how ridiculous home prices are in LA. Just like Furious was telling Rick and Tre 27 years ago.

I remember watching that movie as a kid on TV and that scene always stood out to me. It's crazy how it's even more true today with all the gentrification that is going across the country.

[exstatic]

we don't know what the spurs medical opinion is or to what extent they are "in the dark" or if what they may not know to this point has any impact on any long-term considerations. if the spurs don't offer the super-max, it wouldn't be far-fetched to infer that it's because of the spurs long term prognosis for leonard lacks confidence. if the spurs do offer the max, one could reasonably infer the opposite.

But also not necessarily accurate, either. If they sense that the 'group' wants him out of here, even if he were to get MAXed, they won't reward him, and it will have nothing to do with his health.

[acoelho1]

Only Kawhi knows how he feels. Being ready and able to play requires the doctor's and the player's clearance. If Kawhi feels he's injured then we have to assume that he is legitimately hurt. However, the question still remains if his doctors can get him back to full health without whatever discomfort he is feeling. If not, you can't really say the Spurs doctors had a wrong since you have 2 groups that weren't able to resolve it. It could be as some have suggested a degenerative condition that he will have to manage for this entire career.

[exstatic]

That process should have or could have already started. And if Kawhi & his group use it as an out, then he doesn't want to be here.

Spurs would be dumb to wait til June to figure it out. I'm pretty sure they already have a good grasp on where Kawhis group stands & what they should do next -- even if the public and media think it hasn't been addressed yet.

I agree, and they may already be accepting feelers on a trade. My guess is that they're not hanging up on ANYONE, these days.

[lmbebo]

Only Kawhi knows how he feels. Being ready and able to play requires the doctor's and the player's clearance. If Kawhi feels he's injured then we have to assume that he is legitimately hurt. However, the question still remains if his doctors can get him back to full health without whatever discomfort he is feeling. If not, you can't really say the Spurs doctors had a wrong since you have 2 groups that weren't able to resolve it. It could be as some have suggested a degenerative condition that he will have to manage for this entire career.

Question is if he is malingering to get out of playing and force his way out ...

[rjv]

But also not necessarily accurate, either. If they sense that the 'group' wants him out of here, even if he were to get MAXed, they won't reward him, and it will have nothing to do with his health.

well, yes, that is why i indicated that it would be an inference but at that point it wouldn't be a far-fetched inference. in the case of the latter, i think it would be a more reasonable inference to make. but clearly one of the scenarios, in the case of coming in under the max, would be that it was due to Leonard's group.

[Russ]

From the article:


His agent, Mitch Frankel, and uncle, Dennis Robertson, began pressing the Spurs to consult outside opinions.

Last fall, Dr. Keith Pyne, the managing partner of SportsLab NYC, who is affiliated with the Washington Nationals and New York Islanders, began consulting on the case.

The Washington Nationals?

They shut down the best young pitcher in baseball, Stephen Strasburg, when he was uninjured and pitching very well.

When? -- literally days before the Nats were to enter the postseason with the best record in baseball (in 2012).

Why? Because they were afraid if he continued to pitch the Nats into the World Series he might get injured.

As a result the Washington Nationals, to this day, have never won the World Series.

Enjoy the ride, Spurs fans. :)

[MoSpur02]

Compton has actually become a pretty hot housing market allegedly with how ridiculous home prices are in LA. Just like Furious was telling Rick and Tre 27 years ago.

It was just a billboard. :lmao

[TD 21]

Spurs shouldn't offer the super max. Especially if they are left on the dark by Kawhis Uncle/ "camp" in regards to his injury ( they've been in 100% control of Kawhi since August 8th)..

Spurs can still try to mend the relationship without the super max.

I don't see how they could and even if they could, it's too risky. Not only would he more than likely leave in free agency next off season, but the organization would be under immense pressure and stress throughout the season and the awkward atmosphere from last season would increase tenfold.

One way or another, this needs to be settled as soon as possible. The entire franchise is hanging in the balance.

[duncan2k5]

Ppl saying Kawhi doctors are leaving the Spurs in the dark are severely stupid... Spurs doctors were there with him the entire time... And him and Pop said they talked all the time... Dont make stuff up because of ur feelings

[gospursgojas]

From the article:



The Washington Nationals?

They shut down the best young pitcher in baseball, Stephen Strasburg, when he was uninjured and pitching very well.

When? -- literally days before the Nats were to enter the postseason with the best record in baseball (in 2012).

Why? Because they were afraid if he continued to pitch the Nats into the World Series he might get injured.

As a result the Washington Nationals, to this day, have never won the World Series.

Enjoy the ride, Spurs fans. :)

Great take tbh.

Drs with a history of overly precautionary measures that don’t necessarily have the team’s success in mind.

[duncan2k5]

Great take tbh.

Drs with a history of overly precautionary measures that don’t necessarily have the team’s success in mind.

But if he plays and gets injured worse, he won't be able to play, AND we won't win... Kawhi wasn't being overly cautious... He was injured... Dude was limping all over the place

[rjv]

Ppl saying Kawhi doctors are leaving the Spurs in the dark are severely stupid... Spurs doctors were there with him the entire time... And him and Pop said they talked all the time... Dont make stuff up because of ur feelings

[rjv]

But if he plays and gets injured worse, he won't be able to play, AND we won't win... Kawhi wasn't being overly cautious... He was injured... Dude was limping all over the place


yeah, local coverage went from the dude can barely get on the plane to why the hell isn't he playing?

[Phenomanul]

Ppl saying Kawhi doctors are leaving the Spurs in the dark are severely stupid... Spurs doctors were there with him the entire time... And him and Pop said they talked all the time...

I agree with the bolded part... But...



Dont make stuff up because of ur feelings

You made stuff up about Manu being jealous of Kawhi... you should follow your own advice.

[Russ]

But if he plays and gets injured worse, he won't be able to play, AND we won't win...

But, to be fair, the Spurs have a history of not doing that.

Just ask your namesake. :)

[duncan2k5]

But, to be fair, the Spurs have a history of not doing that.

Just ask your namesake. :)

Pop had a history of not benching Duncan on the game clinching defensive possession of a finals game..... Until he did...

[Joseph Kony]

http://amicohoops.net/nba-rumors-kawhi-leonard-san-antonio-spurs-peter-vecsey-gregg-popovich-nba-injuries/



The San Antonio Spurs are “done” with star small forward Kawhi Leonard and will look to trade him this offseason, according to Hall-of-Fame basketball writer Peter Vecsey on his Patreon page.

The well-connected Vecsey cited a source who said Spurs coach Gregg Popovich didn’t even want Leonard attending practices.

“Keep him away from us,” Popovich would say, via Vecsey’s source. Apparently, Leonard’s uncle had been “poisoning (Leonard’s) mind against everyone.”

According to Vecsey, Leonard’s uncle “convinced Kawhi the Spurs’ medical staff were more concerned with the team’s best interests, not his.”

Meanwhile, an opposing Western Conference executive told Vecsey that “San Antonio’s hoary Holy Grail has lost its luster. I’m convinced Kawhi will be traded, but it’ll be to an Eastern team.”

[Joseph Kony]

sounds like a bunch of bullshit tbh tho

[NASpurs]

http://amicohoops.net/nba-rumors-kawhi-leonard-san-antonio-spurs-peter-vecsey-gregg-popovich-nba-injuries/

Amico... strike 1.

Peter Vecsey... strike 2.

Wait, the "well-connected" Vecsey has a Patreon page? :lol At least I had a good laugh while reading the bs.

[gospursgojas]

BULlshit rom Kawhi’s “group “

[MoSpur02]

That article is somewhat true. However, Vescey isn't that credible.

[baseline bum]

I wouldn't trust any fucking thing Vescey ever reports. I still remember him reporting Grant Hill was going to take the MLE to sign with the Spurs back in 2000.

[barbacoataco]

can anyone name ONE player who missed a whole season with a nagging injury that didn't require a surgery, at a young age like Leonard, who then came back to have a long durable career? I've been watching sports for years and I can't think of someone off hand.

[DPG21920]

Ppl saying Kawhi doctors are leaving the Spurs in the dark are severely stupid... Spurs doctors were there with him the entire time... And him and Pop said they talked all the time... Dont make stuff up because of ur feelings

SA doctors could be there, but still have no control and very little access to back room medical exams. I agree with you; it seems crazy that it could get to the point where they are cut out, but there is a lot of smoke there.

I think Kawhi and SA work things out but there is so much noise here.

[DPG21920]

yeah, local coverage went from the dude can barely get on the plane to why the hell isn't he playing?

You think SA would clear Kawhi if they thought he couldn’t play at about as good of a level as you could hope and/or they thought it couldn’t get worse?

[exstatic]

can anyone name ONE player who missed a whole season with a nagging injury that didn't require a surgery, at a young age like Leonard, who then came back to have a long durable career? I've been watching sports for years and I can't think of someone off hand.

You’re assuming this wasn’t a medical holdout. He was fine in August, well enough to travel to China for his camp. His sister verified that. Yet, suddenly, in September when it’s time for camp, his quad is bad. Nothing shows up on any scan, but he can’t play.

[offset formation]

I don't see how they could and even if they could, it's too risky. Not only would he more than likely leave in free agency next off season, but the organization would be under immense pressure and stress throughout the season and the awkward atmosphere from last season would increase tenfold.

One way or another, this needs to be settled as soon as possible. The entire franchise is hanging in the balance.

Yep. And fuck Kawhi for letting it get there. I mean, seriously, fuck that guy. He has singlehandedly created a schism in a franchise that did not need to be there. And that has nothing to do with whether or not he is legitimately injured or not.

There are so many places along the way he could have avoided this mess.

[BackHome]

Only Kawhi knows how he feels. Being ready and able to play requires the doctor's and the player's clearance. If Kawhi feels he's injured then we have to assume that he is legitimately hurt. However, the question still remains if his doctors can get him back to full health without whatever discomfort he is feeling. If not, you can't really say the Spurs doctors had a wrong since you have 2 groups that weren't able to resolve it. It could be as some have suggested a degenerative condition that he will have to manage for this entire career.

If I got hurt and couldn’t really play without pain but I was told I could still play I probably wouldn’t play but if you tell me I can get 200 mill contract I am telling everyone I am HEALED it’s a MIRACLE and then every practice I shoot up pain meds until that damn contract is signed and once it is I am checking out welfare time

[ceds]

DURING A STOP through Los Angeles at the beginning of April, a reporter asked Popovich which organizations he admired when he first started coaching.

"Utah Jazz," Popovich said. "I thought from top to bottom, it was a classy organization. You never heard anything out of there. Nothing negative. Kept their business to themselves, they worked hard. No showy stuff. They just did their work and they went home."

This is what we have to look forward to at best if Kawhi leaves.

Fkn Utah :lol

we better damn well offer the supermax & cross our fingers / pray

[DaBears]

As far as mistakes go, one of the biggest would be TP & Manu calling out there teammate, I mean shit TP sexting Brent B’s wife and no call out was made public.. I’m am thinking if Kiwi was going to resign TP would need to be gone, it wasn’t cool calling out your teammate like that, no matter the circumstance. But he is French they are use to stabbin people in the back... *ouch to soon :)

— just playing fellow Frenchies, love all over.


___________________________

[exstatic]

This is what we have to look forward to at best if Kawhi leaves.

Fkn Utah :lol

we better damn well offer the supermax & cross our fingers / pray

Utah is still in the playoffs.

[ceds]

Utah is still in the playoffs.

fools gold...always have been for the last 25 years.

without kawhi i'd rather go the 76ers route until we draft a generational talent or two

[daslicer]

This is what we have to look forward to at best if Kawhi leaves.

Fkn Utah :lol

we better damn well offer the supermax & cross our fingers / pray

Don't care if Kawhi doesn't resign. If he resigns that's great but if he doesn't for me it's not the end of the world. I'm in my 30's and got to see the Spurs win 5 titles in my lifetime. I'm good if the Spurs never contend again granted I hope that's not the case.

[ceds]

Don't care if Kawhi doesn't resign. If he resigns that's great but if he doesn't for me it's not the end of the world. I'm in my 30's and got to see the Spurs win 5 titles in my lifetime. I'm good if the Spurs never contend again granted I hope that's not the case.

yeah we were all lucky to witness the TD era & 5 rings but we still have a top 3 player that's only 26 years old.

We need to roll the dice on him

[ElNono]

I'm happy that my image of Unc as a money-hungry POS wasn't a mischaracterization tbh


Honestly, this article just makes me feel bad for Kawhi tbh. For whatever reason (dad's death, personality, not too bright, etc), he seems to be reliant on those around him to dictate his life. Unfortunately, those around him don't see to be the most professional, competent, or free of ulterior motive.

Not saying the Spurs are free of any blame but he needs to man up and realize that this is his life, his career, and his future. He needs to do what's best for him and not the leeches around him tbh......


Good article, it confirms what many of us have been saying for months, Kawhi isn't calling the shots, it's his uncle and agent..Kawhi doesn't have that type of personality, he isn't LeBron or Chris Paul, he doesn't run his own shit..

It's easy to say "Kawhi should get real representation" or "Kawhi should get his uncle to back off", but that's typically something you hear from white people who don't understand the hood dynamic of bringing your mans and family along for the ride..

Tough situation for the Spurs, looks almost exactly like the Derrick Rose saga(uncle rather than brother, in this case)..Kawhi has a mental disability, it wouldn't be that difficult for family or friends to manipulate him, it's very typical in pro sports..

I do feel bad for Pop, though, very difficult year for him..beginning with Aldridge asking for a trade, to this terrible season with the superstar not playing all year, obviously his wife passing away, and now the possibility that Donald Trump may win a Nobel Peace Prize..wow, money is nice, but that's a stressful year for a 70-year old..

:lol

[ElNono]

Somebody PM me when Uncle decides to have a press conference and talk for Kawhi, tbh...

[nym]

"The treatment course for each diagnosis (a muscle issue vs. a tendon issue) is different, which has become another source of tension in the relationship."

Because SA doctors' misdiagnosed it and didn't admit he had other type of injury? I guess it's hard to work with doctors that want to use different treatments for a different injury.

If this is true, I get Kawhi's doctors' mistrust in team's doctors.

People (not just you YGWHI) keep saying the Spurs medical staff misdiagnosed the injury. But could it be, since the two sides disagree with whether it's a degenerative disease or not, that Kawhi´s camp simply refuses to believe that at 27-ish he has a condition that could completely derail his career and possibly (worst case scenario) end it before it fully flourishes? I mean they could be running with this medical teams's opinion because it goes against the degenerative diagnosis and to something that they feel could be cured with intense rehab and rest.

Not sure if someone else has said this because it´s hard keeping up with all the posts. But I really do wonder if Kawhi's camp is lashing out irrationally at the Spurs because they don´t wantto face the possibility of him having a very very serious condition.

[SAGirl]

I don't see how they could and even if they could, it's too risky. Not only would he more than likely leave in free agency next off season, but the organization would be under immense pressure and stress throughout the season and the awkward atmosphere from last season would increase tenfold.

One way or another, this needs to be settled as soon as possible. The entire franchise is hanging in the balance.
True. Frankly I am tired, burned out, of this saga. It took all year, was immensely draining on everyone and got guys involved in dramas getting asked about him. I don’t think he gets traded but at this point I don’t care.

For me the supermax isn’t even about the money. I know it’s a huge amount of meney and will affect future roster building, but it’s not even about that. He didn’t play almost an entire season. I am not assured in any way this isn’t happening again. I don’t know how you can build around that. His career might be, maybe not over, but derailed. Hopefully not, but I am not reassured by anything that has gone on or said about that injury up to this point.

I think other GMs will have the same concerns and so you aren't getting a package for an MVP player. It’s tough.

[Ginobilly]

People (not just you YGWHI) keep saying the Spurs medical staff misdiagnosed the injury. But could it be, since the two sides disagree with whether it's a degenerative disease or not, that Kawhi´s camp simply refuses to believe that at 27-ish he has a condition that could completely derail his career and possibly (worst case scenario) end it before it fully flourishes? I mean they could be running with this medical teams's opinion because it goes against the degenerative diagnosis and to something that they feel could be cured with intense rehab and rest.

Not sure if someone else has said this because it´s hard keeping up with all the posts. But I really do wonder if Kawhi's camp is lashing out irrationally at the Spurs because they don´t wantto face the possibility of him having a very very serious condition.


Kawhi needs to heal the san anto south way if that's the case. Kawhi needs to go to the south side, find himself an indian healer/curandera, massage that tendon right, take 1 or 2 yrs off, eat tacos/tortas/menudo/caldo de pollo, smoke/vape dro, take it easy on working out and just jog and do the elyptical machine. He should be good to go after the vato loco treatment.

[TheDoctor]

Kawhi needs to heal the san anto south way if that's the case. Kawhi needs to go to the south side, find himself an indian healer/curandera, massage that tendon right, take 1 or 2 yrs off, eat tacos/tortas/menudo/caldo de pollo, smoke/vape dro, take it easy on working out and just jog and do the elyptical machine. He should be good to go after the vato loco treatment.
Man now I want to do that!

Seems like a dope mind-expanding life experience :lol Damn, sounds wicked tbh

[rjv]

Kawhi needs to heal the san anto south way if that's the case. Kawhi needs to go to the south side, find himself an indian healer/curandera, massage that tendon right, take 1 or 2 yrs off, eat tacos/tortas/menudo/caldo de pollo, smoke/vape dro, take it easy on working out and just jog and do the elyptical machine. He should be good to go after the vato loco treatment.

you forgot about putting some Vicks on his quad.

[Russ]

But could it be, . . . that Kawhi´s camp simply refuses to believe that at 27-ish he has a condition that could completely derail his career and possibly (worst case scenario) end it before it fully flourishes?

People want to believe. Doctors in New York (and Mexico) count on it.

[rjv]

kawhi can afford the nice big decorated prayer candles too

if this turns into an atheist v. believers thread, we would have the quintessential ST thread of all time.

[baseline bum]

if this turns into an atheist v. believers thread, we would have the quintessential ST thread of all time.

https://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/manu_bird_attack.jpg

... y luego dije "no soy creyente"

[Ginobilly]

you forgot about putting some Vicks on his quad.

Some healers are using peyote/weed infused massaging balms. Peyote might be a way to repair fucked up "incojido" muscle/tendon and nerves. Kawhi's problem might be that his muscle/tendon is tired after pushing it since he was in his teens. Sometimes the body needs time to heal. Esp after pushing it hard for soo many years like kawhi has. Or maybe he needs lebrons ped doctor to pay him a visit.

[rjv]

Some healers are using peyote/weed infused massaging balms. Peyote might be a way to repair fucked up "incojido" muscle/tendon and nerves. Kawhi's problem might be that his muscle/tendon is tired after pushing it since he was in his teens. Sometimes the body needs time to heal. Esp after pushing it hard for soo many years like kawhi has. Or maybe he needs lebrons ped doctor to pay him a visit.

with tendinopathy, sometimes the tissue forms nerve "sprouts" and this creates an oversensitivity to pain. there is hypercellular activity around the region that creates increased pain signaling. of course, that's if he in fact does have tendinopathy, which would make more sense. if one believes the NY doctors, the ossification is the source of the pain, but i don't know how tissue really "ossifies". maybe there is calcium build up there. hell, i'd try a curandero and it would be puro san antonio to have one on staff.

[lmbebo]

with tendinopathy, sometimes the tissue forms nerve "sprouts" and this creates an oversensitivity to pain. there is hypercellular activity around the region that creates increased pain signaling. of course, that's if he in fact does have tendinopathy, which would make more sense. if one believes the NY doctors, the ossification is the source of the pain, but i don't know how tissue really "ossifies". maybe there is calcium build up there. hell, i'd try a curandero and it would be puro san antonio to have one on staff.

Its called Heterotopic ossification. See it commonly with joint replacements and major trauma.

[YGWHI]

The feeling back in January was that the Spurs doctors felt Kawhi was clear to play. Meaning they didn't think there was an injury. However, his uncle and him wanted to see different doctors because "apparently" he still felt pain. That is why some felt this was more of a mental issue or a personal issue.

Spurs' doctors thought that wasn't even an injury...And now, all we know there is one. A physical injury.

Team's doctors didn't believe him when he said his quad wasn't fine, didn't believe him when he said he was feeling pain...Do you think the player should trust in team-doctors who didn't even believe he was injured?

[exstatic]

Spurs' doctors thought that wasn't even an injury...And now, all we know there is one. A physical injury.

Team's doctors didn't believe him when he said his quad wasn't fine, didn't believe him when he said he was feeling pain...Do you think the player should trust in team-doctors who didn't even believe he was injured?

With the injury that his 'group' says he has, blood should show on an MRI. Nothing did.

[YGWHI]

People (not just you YGWHI) keep saying the Spurs medical staff misdiagnosed the injury.


The feeling back in January was that the Spurs doctors felt Kawhi was clear to play. Meaning they didn't think there was an injury. However, his uncle and him wanted to see different doctors because "apparently" he still felt pain. That is why some felt this was more of a mental issue or a personal issue.

Spurs' doctors thought he wasn't even injured, they didn't believe him when he said he was feeling pain...

Can you imagine Kawhi lying about that? A player that only loves to play basketball in his life?

Spurs doctors did more than mishandling his injury, they didn't believe in their patient.

We already know he has a physical injury, a quad injury.

Other thing we know...this issue with Spurs doctors isn't new.

This isn't the first time that Kawhi has to work with outside doctors to heal an injury.

He did it in 2015 to heal his hand.

I guess he was tired of Spurs' doctors not believing him, he got tired of hearing "our doctors have never seen an injury like this years",

[YGWHI]

With the injury that his 'group' says he has, blood should show on an MRI. Nothing did.
1-His NYC doctors who have great rep in sports world are part of that "group".
2-Even X-Ray show calcifications
3-You would find it if you know what type of injury you're looking for...
Spurs' doctors never thought there was other injury, they didn't even looking for other thing more than thendionopathy for overuse.

[Russ]

Spurs' doctors thought he wasn't even injured, they didn't believe him when he said he was feeling pain...

Can you imagine Kawhi lying about that? A player that only loves to play basketball in his life?

Spurs doctors did more than mishandling his injury, they didn't believe in their patient.

We already know he has a physical injury, a quad injury.

Other thing we know...this issue with Spurs doctors isn't new.

This isn't the first time that Kawhi has to work with outside doctors to heal an injury.

He did it in 2015 to heal his hand.

I guess he was tired of Spurs' doctors not believing him, he got tired of hearing "our doctors have never seen an injury like this years",

Is your contempt reserved only for the "Spurs' doctors" or does it extend to the Spurs team/organization in general?

[YGWHI]

Is your contempt reserved only for the "Spurs' doctors" or does it extend to the Spurs team/organization in general?
I'm a Spurs' fan. The organization is the best in sports world. But his doctors aren't that infallible like other fans want to believe.

[Russ]

I'm a Spurs' fan. The organization is the best in sports world. But his doctors aren't that infallible like other fans want to believe.

Okay, I'm reassured (somewhat).

[lmbebo]

1-His NYC doctors who have great rep in sports world are part of that "group".
2-Even X-Ray show calcifications
3-You would find it if you know what type of injury you're looking for...
Spurs' doctors never thought there was other injury, they didn't even looking for other thing more than thendionopathy for overuse.

Calcification is harder to appreciate on MRI. Xray will only show it if its large. CT best in this respect. MRI would better show hemorrhagic products.

[rjv]

Calcification is harder to appreciate on MRI. Xray will only show it if its large. CT best in this respect. MRI would better show hemorrhagic products.

....or weighted imaging.

[lmbebo]

....or weighted imaging. Gradient and susceptibility weighted imaging (SWI) can.

[MoSpur02]

Is your contempt reserved only for the "Spurs' doctors" or does it extend to the Spurs team/organization in general?

His contempt is for anyone who doesn't blame the Spurs for all this crap.

[rjv]

Gradient and susceptibility weighted imaging (SWI) can. and it can also differentiate between the presence of calcium from iron. CT is still the gold standard, as you mentioned.

[lmbebo]

and it can also differentiate between the presence of calcium from iron. CT is still the gold standard, as you mentioned.


:bobo

[YGWHI]

His contempt is for anyone who doesn't blame the Spurs for all this crap.
You're wrong.

Also, I'm not the guy who said that the Spurs doctors didn't even think there was an injury or didn't believe him when he said he feels pain.

I wouldn't post it because I know that data coming from me would sound weird...Coming from you, a PATFO supporter, makes my point.

[DaBears]

Spurs' doctors thought that wasn't even an injury...And now, all we know there is one. A physical injury.

Team's doctors didn't believe him when he said his quad wasn't fine, didn't believe him when he said he was feeling pain...Do you think the player should trust in team-doctors who didn't even believe he was injured?

FACT - NY doctors have yet resolve his issue w/ KIWI, tell you even they dont know how to fix or put together the proper rehab.
FACT - SPURS doctors stated he has a degenerative issue, KIWI camp wanted 2nd opinion on that diagnosis ( potential $$ money loss, if it were true ) if you stick w/ that. hence the 2nd opinion.
OPINION - Hence get to a doctor outside of the network to give different opinion, which in turn would force a trade to a team willing to give max money, even if its not the SM.

Think logically here - when was the last time you needed to spend weeks getting a diagnosis on something and then you've been out months for a noninvasive injury. If KIWI is not healthy yet after months, that tells you something, and i would lean towards SPURS team diagnosis.

[YGWHI]

Think logically here - when was the last time you needed to spend weeks getting a diagnosis on something and then you've been out months for a noninvasive injury. If KIWI is not healthy yet after months, that tells you something, and i would lean towards SPURS team diagnosis.
When a player gets a wrong dignosis and receives treatments for that instead of receiving the right treatment, it could take long time to heal.

Not just players, we see how many times it happens to normal people, too.

[DaBears]

When a player gets a wrong dignosis and receives treatments for that instead of receiving the right treatment, it could take long time to heal.

Not just players, we see how many times it happens to normal people, too.

It hasn't been proven he got the wrong Diagnosis, your going off reports. It has never been confirmed he received the wrong diagnosis, his 2nd opinion has to do with not agreeing with what SPURS have told him. Because if it was true he'd lose out on a lot of money..

** I do agree with you that wrong diagnosis happen alot among the average person. I am fairly confident SPURS ran multiple tests and ideas before settling on the 1 they decided to diagnosis Kiwi with.
It was not like they did a 5 sec session and then gave it a name.

[MoSpur02]

It hasn't been proven he got the wrong Diagnosis, your going off reports. It has never been confirmed he received the wrong diagnosis, his 2nd opinion has to do with not agreeing with what SPURS have told him. Because if it was true he'd lose out on a lot of money..

** I do agree with you that wrong diagnosis happen alot among the average person. I am fairly confident SPURS ran multiple tests and ideas before settling on the 1 they decided to diagnosis Kiwi with.
It was not like they did a 5 sec session and then gave it a name.

Unfortunately you are probably wasting your time because Kawhi and his group are the victims here.

[DPG21920]

When a player gets a wrong dignosis and receives treatments for that instead of receiving the right treatment, it could take long time to heal.

Not just players, we see how many times it happens to normal people, too.

You mean like 8 months long? Because it appears Kawhi’s team has been handling the course of treatment for 8 months now.

[DaBears]

You mean like 8 months long? Because it appears Kawhi’s team has been handling the course of treatment for 8 months now.

:toast

[DaBears]

And just pointing out this... Say Kiwi went to NY to get himself diagnosis-ed & then prescribed a rehab plan, why would he need to stay in NY for this, you can easily get w/ medical staff back here in SA where your home is.
Even rehab with the spurs staff of doctors to implement your rehab ( i am of the upmost confidence they would assist. ). Lends you to believe it is something completely not medical related.

[DaBears]

And just pointing out this... Say Kiwi went to NY to get himself diagnosis-ed & then prescribed a rehab plan, why would he need to stay in NY for this, you can easily get w/ medical staff back here in SA where your home is.
Even rehab with the spurs staff of doctors to implement your rehab ( i am of the upmost confidence they would assist. ). Lends you to believe it is something completely not medical related.

From everything we've ever heard of Kiwi as a person he is conservative w/ his money why would he stay in NY spending money on temp home for the weeks of rehab when you wouldn't need to.

[daslicer]

Unfortunately you are probably wasting your time because Kawhi and his group are the victims here.

:lol

[SpursforSix]

And just pointing out this... Say Kiwi went to NY to get himself diagnosis-ed & then prescribed a rehab plan, why would he need to stay in NY for this, you can easily get w/ medical staff back here in SA where your home is.
Even rehab with the spurs staff of doctors to implement your rehab ( i am of the upmost confidence they would assist. ). Lends you to believe it is something completely not medical related.

I suppose that he might stay in New York so the doctor can monitor him frequently while he's doing the rehab.

[DaBears]

I suppose that he might stay in New York so the doctor can monitor him frequently while he's doing the rehab.

I thought that the reason why we invented Twitter & Snapchat & Facebook live and smartphones w/ camera's webex sessions & Apple Facetime. Allowing us to be reach others, so that we can be in different locals. this injury is not a day to day type injury, and checkup every few weeks i am thinking would work.. But what do i know, or do not know, about it..

Kiwi and his staff could just be completely in the dark as you or I.

[toki9]

Thinking about this, Kawh's camp's behavior makes sense if you assume that they believed that the Spurs didn't want to give out the Supermax. Per the Spurs doctors, Kawhi has a degenerative disease--which would mean a 5 year supermax is not a good choice. So if you're Kawhi's agent/uncle, your immediate reaction to that diagnosis is that the Spurs are looking for ways to not hand out the Supermax. So you look for a second opinion. But the second opinion doesn't work out, so you look for a third opinion. In the meantime, you tell the Spurs that it's not a degenerative condition and only needs a right kind of rehab--and fight over who has the right diagnosis while not saying anything that may come to haunt you later (such as, yeah, your doctors were right about the diagnosis). In other words, Kawhi's people do not want to confirm that it is a degenerative disease and that's probably the most logical reason as to why they haven't said anything. And this is also why his people can tell Kawhi that the Spurs don't care about you, but just the franchise, that they're trying to lowball you on the contract by saying you have a degenerative condition.

[toki9]

From everything we've ever heard of Kiwi as a person he is conservative w/ his money why would he stay in NY spending money on temp home for the weeks of rehab when you wouldn't need to.

He's probably living with his uncle, who is based out of New Jersey.

[TD 21]

Thinking about this, Kawh's camp's behavior makes sense if you assume that they believed that the Spurs didn't want to give out the Supermax. Per the Spurs doctors, Kawhi has a degenerative disease--which would mean a 5 year supermax is not a good choice. So if you're Kawhi's agent/uncle, your immediate reaction to that diagnosis is that the Spurs are looking for ways to not hand out the Supermax. So you look for a second opinion. But the second opinion doesn't work out, so you look for a third opinion. In the meantime, you tell the Spurs that it's not a degenerative condition and only needs a right kind of rehab--and fight over who has the right diagnosis while not saying anything that may come to haunt you later (such as, yeah, your doctors were right about the diagnosis). In other words, Kawhi's people do not want to confirm that it is a degenerative disease and that's probably the most logical reason as to why they haven't said anything. And this is also why his people can tell Kawhi that the Spurs don't care about you, but just the franchise, that they're trying to lowball you on the contract by saying you have a degenerative condition.

Duncan had a degenerative disease, yet still managed to have a long, highly successful career. Obviously, that doesn't mean Leonard necessarily will, but it doesn't automatically mean he'll be another Stoudemire, Roy, Granger, etc., either. Attempting to ascertain which category he'll fall into will be key.

[toki9]

Duncan had a degenerative disease, yet still managed to have a long, highly successful career. Obviously, that doesn't mean Leonard necessarily will, but it doesn't automatically mean he'll be another Stoudemire, Roy, Granger, etc., either. Attempting to ascertain which category he'll fall into will be key.

But if you're his agent thinking about the upcoming contract, your first thought would be how this diagnosis affects the contract negotiation. You're not worried about long term prognosis as much as what's going to happen on the next contract--particularly if the agent himself is having business issues.

[TD 21]

But if you're his agent thinking about the upcoming contract, your first thought would be how this diagnosis affects the contract negotiation. You're not worried about long term prognosis as much as what's going to happen on the next contract--particularly if the agent himself is having business issues.

The part I highlighted was from the Spurs perspective.

[ducks]

Spur fans are the victims here not Leonard or the front office

[toki9]

The part I highlighted was from the Spurs perspective.

Sorry, I should have been more precise with my writing. I was speculating from Kawhi's camp perspective--so if the Spurs doctors are saying that it's degenerative disease, the agent would believe that it would make the Spurs hesitant about the 5-year deal. So the agent believes the diagnosis would give Spurs a basis to lowball so he seeks out a second opinion, and then a third opinion. But they can't come up with anything definitive that says the Spurs diagnosis is wrong, so they're keeping everything quiet. I think it was in a podcast, but Ramona Shelburne mentioned that she was getting a lot of these medical explanation from Kawhi's agent, Frankel, and she asked him if Kawhi's doctor could comment to her directly--and he would not let that happen.

Anyways, this is all pure speculation, so who knows.

[BackHome]

Always follow the money

[duncan2k5]

You’re assuming this wasn’t a medical holdout. He was fine in August, well enough to travel to China for his camp. His sister verified that. Yet, suddenly, in September when it’s time for camp, his quad is bad. Nothing shows up on any scan, but he can’t play.

So he was fake limping? Great actor then...

[duncan2k5]

People (not just you YGWHI) keep saying the Spurs medical staff misdiagnosed the injury. But could it be, since the two sides disagree with whether it's a degenerative disease or not, that Kawhi´s camp simply refuses to believe that at 27-ish he has a condition that could completely derail his career and possibly (worst case scenario) end it before it fully flourishes? I mean they could be running with this medical teams's opinion because it goes against the degenerative diagnosis and to something that they feel could be cured with intense rehab and rest.

Not sure if someone else has said this because it´s hard keeping up with all the posts. But I really do wonder if Kawhi's camp is lashing out irrationally at the Spurs because they don´t wantto face the possibility of him having a very very serious condition.

It can't be that... Because the doctors Kawhi is seeing are better than the sports doctors of a basketball team... And the Spurs doctors are in agreement with the other ones

[duncan2k5]

True. Frankly I am tired, burned out, of this saga. It took all year, was immensely draining on everyone and got guys involved in dramas getting asked about him. I don’t think he gets traded but at this point I don’t care.

For me the supermax isn’t even about the money. I know it’s a huge amount of meney and will affect future roster building, but it’s not even about that. He didn’t play almost an entire season. I am not assured in any way this isn’t happening again. I don’t know how you can build around that. His career might be, maybe not over, but derailed. Hopefully not, but I am not reassured by anything that has gone on or said about that injury up to this point.

I think other GMs will have the same concerns and so you aren't getting a package for an MVP player. It’s tough.

Every single GM in the league would trade for Kawhi so fast... Including the warriors... And laugh at us while doing it... Good thing we aren't stupid and won't trade him

[SAGirl]

Every single GM in the league would trade for Kawhi so fast... Including the warriors... And laugh at us while doing it... Good thing we aren't stupid and won't trade him
sure they will trade you austin rivers and the likes... by that I mean, worse contracts and bad assets... no one that you really want.

[duncan2k5]

sure they will trade you austin rivers and the likes... by that I mean, worse contracts and bad assets... no one that you really want.

Disagree... Anyone outside of Westbrook, Durant, Curry will be traded

[SAGirl]

Disagree... Anyone outside of Westbrook, Durant, Curry will be traded
:lol
you are delusional, nothing against you... dude is either growing bones ectopically in muscles or he simply has a knee that looks like a
50 year old, bc even duncan on no knees was playing...

I wish for nothing but the best for him, but he will only fetch low value assets until he shows he can play regular minutes in consecutive games, no babying.

[MaNu4Tres]

You mean like 8 months long? Because it appears Kawhi’s team has been handling the course of treatment for 8 months now.

10 months brah.

August 8th..

[acoelho1]

I’m still waiting for the prognosis from the NY doctors since they have supposedly figured it out. Kawhi has been on their regiment for a few months now. Will it take the whole summer or will he miss another year. I’m not saying anyone got it wrong or right until we hear that Kawhi is fully healthy. Until that time, we can’t be certain about anything.

[BillMc]

More talking heads. Only worth noting because supposed "insider to the Kawhi group" Carter seems to be backing off a little on his "Kawhi has played his last game in SA" rhetoric. Now, he sort of sounds like maybe, just maybe, the supermax might get him. Either this is all BS from Carter or he's been a vocal tool for positioning in negotiations.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR5-i19x-k4

[lmbebo]

More talking heads. Only worth noting because supposed "insider to the Kawhi group" Carter seems to be backing off a little on his "Kawhi has played his last game in SA" rhetoric. Now, he sort of sounds like maybe, just maybe, the supermax might get him. Either this is all BS from Carter or he's been a vocal tool for positioning in negotiations.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR5-i19x-k4

Tend to believe some of what Carter says because what Ramona? said on the lowe podcast. Essentially, Kwahi is about the only nba player in his agency that deals with NFL players. And Carter's brother? is part of his rehab/PT team in NY ....

[Drom John]

10 months brah.

August 8th..

Let's compromise.
August 8, 2017 to May 5, 2018, almost nine months.

[offset formation]

Let's compromise.
August 8, 2017 to May 5, 2018, almost nine months.

:bobo

[tholdren]

Tend to believe some of what Carter says because what Ramona? said on the lowe podcast. Essentially, Kwahi is about the only nba player in his agency that deals with NFL players. And Carter's brother? is part of his rehab/PT team in NY ....

Trade this pos

[bklynspursfan]

993550616688562177

[DPG21920]

So he came back to SA and is now headed to Cali? Wonder if the meeting already took place.

[Phenomanul]

993550616688562177

I don't see uncle Dennis...

Latest reports pretty much insinuated that Kawhi needed to be held by the hand to do anything... so the picture quickly dispels that notion. :lol :lol :lol

[Phenomanul]

Unless of course he is texting him for direction...

[lmbebo]

Came back to clean out his unused empty locker for the summer ...

[FvckMavs]

Or this: “uncle Dennis, I need to poop...”.

[rjv]

the real question is how long had Kawhi been here? supposedly, the exit interviews ended on April 26th.

[ducks]

like he could not get another flight back from ca anytime when pop is ready to meet him

[exstatic]

Or this: “uncle Dennis, I need to poop...”.

Kawhi, you know there’s no One There to wipe for you. You’ll just have to hold it.

[Dex]

More talking heads. Only worth noting because supposed "insider to the Kawhi group" Carter seems to be backing off a little on his "Kawhi has played his last game in SA" rhetoric. Now, he sort of sounds like maybe, just maybe, the supermax might get him. Either this is all BS from Carter or he's been a vocal tool for positioning in negotiations.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR5-i19x-k4

Media backpedaling already.

Despite all the drama, I still expect Kawhi to be back.

[stxspurs]

I don't see uncle Dennis...

Latest reports pretty much insinuated that Kawhi needed to be held by the hand to do anything... so the picture quickly dispels that notion. :lol :lol :lol


Uncle D is probably getting him his chocolate milk.

[SAGirl]

It is so weird that he HAD TO stay in NYC to rehab with his medical team and his "group" most of the Post ASB time frame and he couldn't be spared to be away during the playoffs, but then as soon as the season is over, he NOW can afford to leave his medical group in NYC, spend a couple of weeks in SA and head to his offseason home in San Diego... it's just so really strange the timing of him being released from NYC to continue his rehab elsewhere with no problem...

[exstatic]

It is so weird that he HAD TO stay in NYC to rehab with his medical team and his "group" most of the Post ASB time frame and he couldn't be spared to be away during the playoffs, but then as soon as the season is over, he NOW can afford to leave his medical group in NYC, spend a couple of weeks in SA and head to his offseason home in San Diego... it's just so really strange the timing of him being released from NYC to continue his rehab elsewhere with no problem...

Its' only weird if you think his rehab was anything other than a medical holdout. It makes perfect sense to me. The charade is over, because it's no longer needed.

[SAGirl]

Its' only weird if you think his rehab was anything other than a medical holdout. It makes perfect sense to me. The charade is over, because it's no longer needed.
I have given him the benefit of the doubt that he has really been hurt all this time... I chose to go with the limited but first hand interviews given by him and Pop.

If it turns out he was faking things as you said... I would not want him back. It's almost as serious as him being "crippled." (Not as serious as him being crippled bc at least he'd have trade value, an injured Kiwi on a Danny Granger career path has not much of a trade value IMO.) Also, if he was really injured there was always hope for a reconciliation since IMO the injury was the source of their rift. If it's something else, then he really might be gone.

[exstatic]

I have given him the benefit of the doubt that he has really been hurt all this time... I chose to go with the limited but first hand interviews given by him and Pop.

If it turns out he was faking things as you said... I would not want him back. It's almost as serious as him being "crippled." (Not as serious as him being crippled bc at least he'd have trade value, an injured Kiwi on a Danny Granger career path has not much of a trade value IMO.) Also, if he was really injured there was always hope for a reconciliation since IMO the injury was the source of their rift. If it's something else, then he really might be gone.

Pop was patient for a time, but there was a point where he was clearly done, and not willing to cater to the 'group' any longer. I can't ever see him getting to that point if he thought the injury was legit.

[DPG21920]

The best news is Kawhi was doing a medical holdout. If he’s clean bill of health that helps in giving him money or trade value as snakey as that would be.

[baseline bum]

Its' only weird if you think his rehab was anything other than a medical holdout. It makes perfect sense to me. The charade is over, because it's no longer needed.

This. Fucking Eric Gordon 2018.

[baseline bum]

The best news is Kawhi was doing a medical holdout. If he’s clean bill of health that helps in giving him money or trade value as snakey as that would be.

If they give him the supermax they can't trade his ass for a year. I don't want the motherfucker who has already checked out on his team.

[DPG21920]

Sure, as unpalatable as that might be it’s still easily best case scenario value wise. I’d rather wait a year and get insane value

[coachmac87]

The best news is Kawhi was doing a medical holdout. If he’s clean bill of health that helps in giving him money or trade value as snakey as that would be.


Tbh the more you think about it the more it makes the most sense...now whether you agree if it’s right or not is a different story. I get both sides though and like you said if all can just shake hands and move past this then cool...

I think the whole thing makes sense if you really break it all down..it was an absolute medical hold out.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Tbh the more you think about it the more it makes the most sense...now whether you agree if it’s right or not is a different story. I get both sides though and like you said if all can just shake hands and move past this then cool...

I think the whole thing makes sense if you really break it all down..it was an absolute medical hold out.

This.

[baseline bum]

Sure, as unpalatable as that might be it’s still easily best case scenario value wise. I’d rather wait a year and get insane value

I disagree. It wastes a year of the rebuild that will be absolutely necessary if he wants out. Plus the Spurs would have to take back a horrible contract or two to move Leonard in a year when he's due $38 million under a supermax deal. If you wanted to for example trade Leonard to Boston for Tatum+Brown this summer you'd only need to take a small contract such as Marcus Morris' $5 million or so to make the trade work under the cap. If you do it next summer when Leonard is owed $18 million more all of a sudden now you're having to take Horford's ridiculous contract off their hands instead of Morris' cheap one.

[baseline bum]

Plus who wants to deal with all this Leonard drama for another year? If the Spurs pay him the supermax it's to stay here longterm if he tells Uncle Dennis to fuck off.

[NASpurs]

I disagree. It wastes a year of the rebuild that will be absolutely necessary if he wants out. Plus the Spurs would have to take back a horrible contract or two to move Leonard in a year when he's due $38 million under a supermax deal. If you wanted to for example trade Leonard to Boston for Tatum+Brown this summer you'd only need to take a small contract such as Marcus Morris' $5 million or so to make the trade work under the cap. If you do it next summer when Leonard is owed $18 million more all of a sudden now you're having to take Horford's ridiculous contract off their hands instead of Morris' cheap one.

I think that's called the Danny Ainge Special... to get fucked in the ass by him in a trade. Yeah don't want none of that.

[DPG21920]

Bruh, if Kawhi is healthy and playing under contract (super max or not) he’s a top 5 player in the nba and teams will line up to trade for him.

The only reason his value is somewhat muted currently is the injury (which in this scenario the medical hold out eliminated that concern) and the fact he can bolt in a year if a team trades for him. If you eliminate that every team in the league will bid.

[FkLA]

This. Fucking Eric Gordon 2018.


Quiet doesn't always equal classy or humble. There are plenty of quiet pieces of shit out there.

He wants out and is pretty much pulling an Eric Gordon (New Orleans).


I can't believe people still think he's not playing because he's "soft". He's fine and he's not really soft, he just wants out. Basically the same shit Eric Gordon pulled when he was with the Pelicans.

[FkLA]

Shoe deal/brand and new ambitious agent/unc:


I coined the name Kawhichael and saw his potential in the post/midrange before many did. Still think he can be an awesome point forward too. So you could say I'm a Kawhi fanboy but shit just doesn't add up. The Spurs are by far the most conservative team with injury management, resting, etc so if they've said he's been ready to go for about 6 months my brain tells me to believe them. Tendinopathy(?) isn't anything structural, it's probably something you can play with if you really want to--which he doesn't.

Kawhi fired his agent and scoffed at the Jordan shoe deal he was offered (rightfully so). I think he really cares about his brand. He's been rocking his klaw gear for years and has made international tours to promote it. He feels the SA market limits his ability to grow his name/brand, imo.

Hate that I called it and that he really is the faggot I thought he was.

[spursistan]

How fuckin' convenient he got released from his NY Rehab HQ after the Spurs got eliminated and he is now back roaming the country.. :lol.


Apologists and fanboys need to see it for what it is: he quit on this franchise/team. That will never be forgotten or forgiven in my book..

[daslicer]

How fuckin' convenient he got released from his NY Rehab HQ after the Spurs got eliminated and he is now back roaming the country.. :lol.


Apologists and fanboys need to see it for what it is: he quit on this franchise/team. That will never be forgotten or forgiven in my book..

A lot of people can't admit when they have been played. I live by the advice my father told me when I was 18 which is everybody gets played at one point of time in life but acknowledge it when it happens to you so it doesn't happen again.

[Keepin' it real]

Kawhi has never even had 10 assists in a game ... how the hell is he a top 5 player?

Overrated mental case.

[bklynspursfan]

Kawhi has never even had 10 assists in a game ... how the hell is he a top 5 player?

Overrated mental case.

Ha.. that's the barometer now?

[MaNu4Tres]

Shoe deal/brand and new ambitious agent/unc:



Hate that I called it and that he really is the faggot I thought he was.

I warned you and everyone about his Uncle months ago but you scoffed at my information.

Glad you can see the light now.

[Ice009]

I warned you and everyone about his Uncle months ago but you scoffed at my information.

Glad you can see the light now.

So what have you heard currently on the situation from the people you know?

[Keepin' it real]

Ha.. that's the barometer now?

It's one of them, clearly. Especially for a player who touches the ball way more than anyone else.

[alpha_HaZE]

It is so weird that he HAD TO stay in NYC to rehab with his medical team and his "group" most of the Post ASB time frame and he couldn't be spared to be away during the playoffs, but then as soon as the season is over, he NOW can afford to leave his medical group in NYC, spend a couple of weeks in SA and head to his offseason home in San Diego... it's just so really strange the timing of him being released from NYC to continue his rehab elsewhere with no problem...

Good observation, the article pretty much says that Kawhi has looked pretty good in practices and 5 on 5 games.

It seems to me that Kawhi is saying, I don't feel 100%, and the Spurs are like, it's OK will take you at 80%, that's good enough for a deep playoff run.

But speculation is that Kawhi realized that this might be his only opportunity to look to look around for another team.

[gambit1990]

It is so weird that he HAD TO stay in NYC to rehab with his medical team and his "group" most of the Post ASB time frame and he couldn't be spared to be away during the playoffs, but then as soon as the season is over, he NOW can afford to leave his medical group in NYC, spend a couple of weeks in SA and head to his offseason home in San Diego... it's just so really strange the timing of him being released from NYC to continue his rehab elsewhere with no problem...
i hadn't thought about that before... but maybe he's taking a break from rehab because the season is over ?

[gambit1990]

to be a realist... rehabbing would be more important than just sitting on the bench. spurs wouldn't have beat the warriors with him there...

i get that he could've been there for support. but if i was kawhi i'd rather be working on myself to get back to playing than to helplessly watch my team lose.

[blizz]

to be a realist... rehabbing would be more important than just sitting on the bench. spurs wouldn't have beat the warriors with him there...

i get that he could've been there for support. but if i was kawhi i'd rather be working on myself to get back to playing than to helplessly watch my team lose.
It was so important that he could not tear himself away but now that th season is over he can come here for weeks and then fly to SD for who knows what and who knows how long. That’s bullshit. Now that the season is over, he’s magically good and no longer needs rehab? Fuck that dude. He has gotten some horrible advice and I hope he gets exposed for being a douche and his uncle never gets any traction with his stupid endeavor.

[blizz]

i hadn't thought about that before... but maybe he's taking a break from rehab because the season is over ?
What does that matter? He knew he wasn’t coming back so the season has been over for him for a while now. SG is right. He’s able to get away now because the season is over and he doesn’t need to continue the scharade.

[daledondale]

How fuckin' convenient he got released from his NY Rehab HQ after the Spurs got eliminated and he is now back roaming the country.. :lol.


Apologists and fanboys need to see it for what it is: he quit on this franchise/team. That will never be forgotten or forgiven in my book..This.

[BillMc]

It is so weird that he HAD TO stay in NYC to rehab with his medical team and his "group" most of the Post ASB time frame and he couldn't be spared to be away during the playoffs, but then as soon as the season is over, he NOW can afford to leave his medical group in NYC, spend a couple of weeks in SA and head to his offseason home in San Diego... it's just so really strange the timing of him being released from NYC to continue his rehab elsewhere with no problem...

This. I guess the most optimistic view would be he was rehabbing like mad to make a comeback and just missed it because Spurs were eliminated in the first round. But it is pretty suspicious.

[Play Boban]

How fuckin' convenient he got released from his NY Rehab HQ after the Spurs got eliminated and he is now back roaming the country.. :lol.


Apologists and fanboys need to see it for what it is: he quit on this franchise/team. That will never be forgotten or forgiven in my book..

Troof bomb tbh :wow

[SuperCam]

How fuckin' convenient he got released from his NY Rehab HQ after the Spurs got eliminated and he is now back roaming the country.. :lol.


Apologists and fanboys need to see it for what it is: he quit on this franchise/team. That will never be forgotten or forgiven in my book..

:lmao




YGWHI and duncan2k5 can't :downspin: this

[stxspurs]

Anyone else see this nonsense from NBA updates on FB

BREAKING NEWS:

After having a confrontation with his teammates and denying to attend/play for the Spurs playoff run. Kawhi Leonard has been traded to the Boston Celtics for Gordon Hayward and Sacramento Kings 2019 1st round pick (via sixers) this trade will be approved this summer. According to Peter Vescey

[MoSpur02]

Anyone else see this nonsense from NBA updates on FB

BREAKING NEWS:

After having a confrontation with his teammates and denying to attend/play for the Spurs playoff run. Kawhi Leonard has been traded to the Boston Celtics for Gordon Hayward and Sacramento Kings 2019 1st round pick (via sixers) this trade will be approved this summer. According to Peter Vescey

:lol Peter Vescey

[Joseph Kony]

Anyone else see this nonsense from NBA updates on FB

BREAKING NEWS:

After having a confrontation with his teammates and denying to attend/play for the Spurs playoff run. Kawhi Leonard has been traded to the Boston Celtics for Gordon Hayward and Sacramento Kings 2019 1st round pick (via sixers) this trade will be approved this summer. According to Peter Vescey
:lmao

[MultiTroll]

:lol Peter Vescey (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=12465)
I'm thinking we should have a thread to just completely make stuff up re Kawhi.
Just like the overpaid media tards do.

[palangi]

A lot of people can't admit when they have been played. I live by the advice my father told me when I was 18 which is everybody gets played at one point of time in life but acknowledge it when it happens to you so it doesn't happen again.
Or the is 2 sides to one story and the truth lays somewhere in the middle.

But go on and take sides

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Kawhi isn't coming back, the fact that very little has been said since the exit interview is alarming. He was only rehabbing as an excuse to not sit on the Spurs bench. He's been fine to play for some time but didn't want to risk further injury while seeking a trade.

We have officially entered the darkest timeline.

[KDKSpurs24]

It's one of them, clearly. Especially for a player who touches the ball way more than anyone else.
Then you don’t know the Spurs “new” system. The last year Kawhi played, the team averaged 24 assists per game (I think that was like 4th or 5th). The leader was Tony Parker with only 4.5! It’s just not how the team operates. Another thing, I admit I was an even bigger Kawhi fan at the time so I was rooting for him to be very successful so I’d follow what he did on the court often and when he found an open man and kicked it out to them or dropped off a decent pass down low they’d miss it. It takes two people to get an assist.

[Spur|n|Austin]

Kawhi isn't coming back, the fact that very little has been said since the exit interview is alarming. He was only rehabbing as an excuse to not sit on the Spurs bench. He's been fine to play for some time but didn't want to risk further injury while seeking a trade.

We have officially entered the darkest timeline.

What exit interview? When did that happen? Do you have a source?

[coachmac87]

What exit interview? When did that happen? Do you have a source?

No..,he’s just a cliff jumper with a noose around his neck..

I mean if Kawhi really requested a trade it’d be breaking news..just like every leaked story regarding this tning

[DaBears]

How fuckin' convenient he got released from his NY Rehab HQ after the Spurs got eliminated and he is now back roaming the country.. :lol.


Apologists and fanboys need to see it for what it is: he quit on this franchise/team. That will never be forgotten or forgiven in my book..

I stand with you 100% if it turns out to be true.

[SAGirl]

to be a realist... rehabbing would be more important than just sitting on the bench. spurs wouldn't have beat the warriors with him there...

i get that he could've been there for support. but if i was kawhi i'd rather be working on myself to get back to playing than to helplessly watch my team lose.
the point was really that he could have rehabbed anywhere... he didn't NEED to be in NYC. I wouldn't think he has stopped rehabbing even in SA or San Diego if he really was injured. He could follow a protocol established by his doctors anywhere... and he could sit and watch and cheer his teammates for a couple of hours and then go to the team dinners, etc... since rehab is not a 24-7 proposition. But obviously this thing is getting really shady at this point.

[daslicer]

What exit interview? When did that happen? Do you have a source?

Jabari Young reported the exit interviews happened on 4/26 and were private so the media was shut out from them.

https://twitter.com/JabariJYoung/status/993598412040884224

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I have a feeling Kawhi is going to stay a Spur.

[gospursgojas]

Plus who wants to deal with all this Leonard drama for another year? If the Spurs pay him the supermax it's to stay here longterm if he tells Uncle Dennis to fuck off.

He’s a mute tho

[BackHome]

Could you imagine if LeBron has done something like this man oh man he would have been hounded and crucified.

[BillMc]

He’s a mute tho

He can write it on the Supermax contract, just below his signature.

[Dex]

I have a feeling Kawhi is going to stay a Spur.

Same.

And all these idiots talking shit about him will go right back to sucking him off when he starts playing well again.

[FkLA]

I warned you and everyone about his Uncle months ago but you scoffed at my information.

Glad you can see the light now.

:lol gtfo

I've had this theory of Kawhi really caring about his brand for like 1-2 years. It's a conclusion I came to just based on his behavior (tendency to promote his klaw apparel). Doesn't mean I'm going to suddenly claim I have "sources" that "fed me information" though.

I also had my doubts about his uncle as soon as his name started popping up and news that Kawhi fired his old agent came out. There's been enough bits of information come out from actual journalists (not posters with sauces) to question the unc.

[dabom]

:lol gtfo

I've had this theory of Kawhi really caring about his brand for like 1-2 years. It's a conclusion I came to just based on his behavior (tendency to promote his klaw apparel). Doesn't mean I'm going to suddenly claim I have "sources" that "fed me information" though.

I also had my doubts about his uncle as soon as his name started popping up and news that Kawhi fired his old agent came out. There's been enough bits of information come out from actual journalists (not posters with sauces) to question the unc.

:lol

[SpursforSix]

Is this really someone capable of orchestrating a hold out for money or someone capable of marketing himself?

http://giant.gfycat.com/PerkyDescriptiveBobwhite.gif

[spurs10]

I have a feeling Kawhi is going to stay a Spur. :toast


Same.

And all these idiots talking shit about him will go right back to sucking him off when he starts playing well again. I have seen so many comments receive a ridiculous spin that I have no reason to believe they will not sit down and work it out. Thinking they might even 'put the ball in Kawhi's court' when discussing money and who he wants to go to war with. I think LMA, Gay, Murray (after a summer with Chip), and Danny (who too needs to devote his summer getting his offense back on track) are a good place to start, but I wonder what they think they need to win.

We are seeing another predictable playoffs and I can only hope we can compete with the Cupcakes next season.

[Keepin' it real]

I have a feeling Kawhi is going to stay a Spur.

http://blog.tmcnet.com/voice-of-ip/images/Dads%20Army%20Frazier%20-%20doomed.png

[DPG21920]

Same.

And all these idiots talking shit about him will go right back to sucking him off when he starts playing well again.

Kawhi deserves to be shit talked for how he and his group have acted. That does not mean SA fans don’t want him back and playing well. You can mess up and still be wanted; humans aren’t just black and white.

[Lakers999]

I have a feeling Kawhi is going to stay a Spur.

i hope he goes to the lakers

[Dex]

Kawhi deserves to be shit talked for how he and his group have acted. That does not mean SA fans don’t want him back and playing well. You can mess up and still be wanted; humans aren’t just black and white.

He deserves criticism for how he has handled the situation, yes. But frankly, no one really knows what the hell is going on, and some posters around here are going well overboard.

[weeks]

He deserves criticism for how he has handled the situation, yes. But frankly, no one really knows what the hell is going on, and some posters around here are going well overboard.

i think you'd have to be blind to not see he was avoiding the team during the playoffs and is completely under the spell of his uncle
i think he deserves a little bit more than 'criticism'

if anyone else had done this (LMA, LeBron, KD) they'd be eviscerated

[r0drig0lac]

i think you'd have to be blind to not see he was avoiding the team during the playoffs and is completely under the spell of his uncle
i think he deserves a little bit more than 'criticism'

if anyone else had done this (LMA, LeBron, KD) they'd be eviscerated

I like how you've included Aldridge in a list with Lebron and Durant

[MoSpur02]

There was trouble brewing since before the season started if you believe that article. I wasn't made aware of anything until right before the trade deadline. It was bad enough that the front office was asked about trading him. From there it just got worse.

I don't see it getting any better. I think the situation is horrible and was handled wrong by both sides, but more by Kawhi and his group. He has to know that he's the franchise and with that comes responsibility, which IMO means addressing the media more than he did and being more present during home games. Especially during the playoffs. I have serious doubts that the rehab HAD to take place in N.Y. and that it was so demanding that he couldn't attend home games to support the team. It came off as selfish and arrogant.

Do I still want him on the Spurs roster? Hell yes! IF healthy. Big if. I'm also okay with him being traded, but IF it brings back very good players and pick(s).

[lmbebo]

Twitter reacting to some store discounting Leonard apparel by 50%.

[lmbebo]

There was trouble brewing since before the season started if you believe that article. I wasn't made aware of anything until right before the trade deadline. It was bad enough that the front office was asked about trading him. From there it just got worse.

I don't see it getting any better. I think the situation is horrible and was handled wrong by both sides, but more by Kawhi and his group. He has to know that he's the franchise and with that comes responsibility, which IMO means addressing the media more than he did and being more present during home games. Especially during the playoffs. I have serious doubts that the rehab HAD to take place in N.Y. and that it was so demanding that he couldn't attend home games to support the team. It came off as selfish and arrogant.


Childish and immature too if he was too proud to sit by his teammates after the players meeting.

[noles1983]

There was trouble brewing since before the season started if you believe that article. I wasn't made aware of anything until right before the trade deadline. It was bad enough that the front office was asked about trading him. From there it just got worse.

I don't see it getting any better. I think the situation is horrible and was handled wrong by both sides, but more by Kawhi and his group. He has to know that he's the franchise and with that comes responsibility, which IMO means addressing the media more than he did and being more present during home games. Especially during the playoffs. I have serious doubts that the rehab HAD to take place in N.Y. and that it was so demanding that he couldn't attend home games to support the team. It came off as selfish and arrogant.

Do I still want him on the Spurs roster? Hell yes! IF healthy. Big if. I'm also okay with him being traded, but IF it brings back very good players and pick(s).

That bitch immediatly started traveling right after the season ended. Fuck Kawhi, hope he gets AIDS tbh.

[weeks]

I like how you've included Aldridge in a list with Lebron and Durant

wasnt meant to be skills related, just off the top of my head examples of guys this forum would shit all over for pulling the same stunt

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

He deserves criticism for how he has handled the situation, yes. But frankly, no one really knows what the hell is going on, and some posters around here are going well overboard.

Absolutely.





That bitch immediatly started traveling right after the season ended. Fuck Kawhi, hope he gets AIDS tbh.


I give you exhibit A. noles1983 will be slurping from Kawhi’s bagpipe next April when KL is in the MVP discussion.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

What exit interview? When did that happen? Do you have a source?

Exit interviews already happened in SA already

[noles1983]

Absolutely.







I give you exhibit A. noles1983 will be slurping from Kawhi’s bagpipe next April when KL is in the MVP discussion.

Bookmark this shit, not happening.

[tmtcsc]

humans aren’t just black and white.

Don't tell that to these guys:

http://celebritysurgerynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/michael-jackson-plastic-surgery-before-after.jpghttps://tribwtic.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/sammy-sosa.jpg?quality=85&strip=all&w=400&h=225&crop=1