Colorado River -- Water Wars may affect 1 in 8 Norteamericanos

[Winehole23]

What’s happening could be seen as the slow death of an era of easy living, the unwinding of a nearly 100-year-old series of multi-state compacts (https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/g1000/lawofrvr.html) (collectively called “The Law of the River”) that’s been widely viewed as too permissive. Over-reliance on the Colorado River has helped pave the way for rapid population growth across the region, from Southern California to Denver, which may now, ironically, begin to pose a threat to those same cities.

For many reasons, Arizona is last in line (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2015/05/arizona_water_shortages_loom_the_state_prepares_fo r_rationing_as_lake_mead.html) for the Colorado River’s water, and the state is already preparing for the mandatory restrictions that could be less than two years away. The latest official projections (https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/g4000/24mo.pdf) from the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation, the federal agency that manages the Colorado River system, shows that Lake Mead is likely to dip below the critical threshold of 1,075 feet above sea level late next year. That could trigger the first official “call on the river” — a legally-mandated cutback for certain users aimed at avoiding an all-out free-for-all.
https://grist.org/article/the-water-war-that-will-decide-the-fate-of-1-in-8-americans/

[Winehole23]

Users of Colorado River water below Lake Mead — including the cities of Phoenix, Los Angeles, Las Vegas (collectively referred to as the “lower basin (https://www.usbr.gov/lc/images/maps/CRBSmap.jpg)”) — rely on the reservoir as a lifeline. The people in the lower basin exist partly at the mercy of what happens in the upper basin, an area encompassing the snowcapped peaks of Wyoming, Utah, Colorado, and northern New Mexico, the source region of the river.


Big water users in the upper basin — Salt Lake City, Denver, Albuquerque, among others — are also getting nervous because snowpack in the Rockies has been dwindling, and there’s no physical way for them to store the water they depend on (https://www.newsdeeply.com/water/articles/2018/04/30/big-challenges-for-colorado-river-states-that-want-to-conserve-water). There are no big reservoirs in the Rockies.


In recent weeks, tensions are rising (https://www.apnews.com/7c18b7a58f034df6b6341ebf1cd6d8c0/Feud-erupts-between-utility,-US-states-over-Colorado-River) after states in the upper basin sent a strongly worded letter to one of the river’s biggest users, the Central Arizona Water Conservation District, or CAWCD, which supplies water to Tucson and Phoenix. The upper basin states accused the utility of manipulating the complex system (https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/states-accuse-arizona-water-agency-of-gaming-lake-mead-undermining-colorado-river-drought-plans) that governs Lake Mead in order to get more water. The Arizona utility denied the charges.

[boutons_deux]

The Southwest is pretty fucked. Low water means severe water restriction, AND lower electricity generation.

US govt should be pouring $Bs into water desal "moon shots", but of course the oligarchy wants to own all the water, like they want to own all the food, and then shake down humans who want to live.

[SpursforSix]

The Southwest is pretty fucked. Low water means severe water restriction, AND lower electricity generation.

US govt should be pouring $Bs into water desal "moon shots", but of course the oligarchy wants to own all the water, like they want to own all the food, and then shake down humans who want to live.

And fucking BigAmusment charging the shit out of Human Americans just to go down a slide or wade in a tide pool.
Schlitterbahn uses more water a day than most major cities.

[TeyshaBlue]

Occupy Schlitterbahn!

[boutons_deux]

Occupy Schlitterbahn!

San Padre Island SB failed, for sale, it's all yours.

Then there's the kid decapitated at SB, SB people indicted for criminal manslaughter.

A "Verrückt" year for SB.

[sickdsm]

The Southwest is pretty fucked. Low water means severe water restriction, AND lower electricity generation.

US govt should be pouring $Bs into water desal "moon shots", but of course the oligarchy wants to own all the water, like they want to own all the food, and then shake down humans who want to live.

Of course.

[Winehole23]

Federal water managers wanted a deal to sign at the annual Colorado River Water Users Association conference beginning Wednesday in Las Vegas, and threatened earlier this year to impose unspecified measures from Washington if a voluntary drought contingency plan wasn’t reached.


However, Bureau of Reclamation Commissioner Brenda Burman is signaling that the agency that controls the levers on the river is willing to wait. She is scheduled to talk to the conference on Thursday.


“Reclamation remains cautiously optimistic that the parties will find a path forward,” the bureau said in a statement on Friday, “because finding a consensus deal recognizing the risks of continuing drought and the benefits of a drought contingency plan is in each state’s best interest.”


Colorado River water supports about 40 million people and millions of acres of farmland in the U.S. and Mexico.


After 19 years of drought and increasing demand, federal water managers project a 52 percent chance that the river’s biggest reservoir, Lake Mead behind Hoover Dam, will fall low enough to trigger cutbacks under agreements governing the system.
https://www.apnews.com/c23e15b5a22b4b73920ff5bd8fc65821

[SpursforSix]

San Padre Island SB failed, for sale, it's all yours.

Then there's the kid decapitated at SB, SB people indicted for criminal manslaughter.

A "Verrückt" year for SB.

Schlitterbahn is fucked and unfuckable.

[Winehole23]

US West prepares for possible 1st water shortage declaration
(https://apnews.com/article/arizona-colorado-lakes-water-shortages-colorado-river-09302e61c5e0ef051f50459f3dcb771f)

The man-made lakes that store water supplying millions of people in the U.S. West and Mexico are projected to shrink to historic lows in the coming months, dropping to levels that could trigger the federal government’s first-ever official shortage declaration and prompt cuts in Arizona and Nevada.


The U.S. Bureau of Reclamation released 24-month projections this week forecasting that less Colorado River water will cascade down from the Rocky Mountains through Lake Powell and Lake Mead and into the arid deserts of the U.S. Southwest and the Gulf of California. Water levels in the two lakes are expected to plummet low enough for the agency to declare an official shortage for the first time, threatening the supply of Colorado River water that growing cities and farms rely on.

[Winehole23]

Nestlé doesn't have valid rights to water it's been bottling, California officials say (https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2021/04/23/california-officials-tell-nestle-halt-authorized-water-diversions/7353217002/)

[SnakeBoy]

US West prepares for possible 1st water shortage declaration
(https://apnews.com/article/arizona-colorado-lakes-water-shortages-colorado-river-09302e61c5e0ef051f50459f3dcb771f)

Yeah this mega-drought sucks. Probably only going to get worse unless we get lucky.


https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/368/6488/314/F3.large.jpg?width=800&height=600&carousel=1

[Winehole23]

1440706109090582537

[Winehole23]

1440677977969152016

[Winehole23]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_5OFVbVUAAEd4m?format=png&name=small
https://scitechdaily.com/images/Lake-Mead-August-2000-Annotated.jpg (https://scitechdaily.com/images/Lake-Mead-August-2000.jpg)August 7, 2000

https://scitechdaily.com/images/Lake-Mead-August-2021-Annotated.jpg (https://scitechdaily.com/images/Lake-Mead-August-2021.jpg)
August 9, 2021

[Thread]

Fire up all those desalination plants they built a way's back. Can you imagine it? tee, hee.

Or, have a water pipeline from the water area's to the unwatered areas. WW3 would result.

Or, best yet:::close all the golf courses, the car washes and stop planting produce in the deserts and irrigating them.

[MultiTroll]

Since oil is piped thousands of miles, cannot water also?

[SnakeBoy]

Since oil is piped thousands of miles, cannot water also?

Sure. Idk what the cost per barrel would be tho.

[CosmicCowboy]

Since oil is piped thousands of miles, cannot water also?

San antonio is already piping it hundreds of miles.

[boutons_deux]

SAWS Vista Ridge pipeline is 142 miles long

[CosmicCowboy]

Canyon Lake that provides most of the water for Boerne, New Braunfels, San Marcos, Buda, etc will suffer the same fate in your lifetimes.

[SnakeBoy]

Canyon Lake that provides most of the water for Boerne, New Braunfels, San Marcos, Buda, etc will suffer the same fate in your lifetimes.

Why do you say that?

We're in a region that gets recharged with flooding events regularly even during megadroughts

[boutons_deux]

LA Times --

"On average, Californians reduced water use by just 1.8% statewide during July, compared with the same month last year."

[ChumpDumper]

Thank goodness we aren't doing anything about this.

[CosmicCowboy]

Why do you say that?

We're in a region that gets recharged with flooding events regularly even during megadroughts

Because GBRA continues to add pipelines and expand its pumping of Canyon/Dunlop as people continue to flood the area. They continue to pump it lower and lower. Its one of the fastest growing areas in the US.

[boutons_deux]

There's a 1-in-3 chance Lake Powell won't be able to generate hydropower in 2023 due to drought conditions

the dam produces power that is distributed to some 5.8 million homes and businesses (https://www.usbr.gov/uc/rm/crsp/gc/gcdbrochure.pdf)spanning from Nebraska to Nevada.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/23/weather/lake-powell-power-generation-outlook/index.html

[Winehole23]

in the US west, water is power

https://spectrum.ieee.org/in-the-american-southwest-the-energy-problem-is-water

[Winehole23]

projections got a little worse for Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming and Utah


While the reservoir on the Nevada-Arizona border is key for those three lower Colorado River basin states, Lake Powell (https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-science-business-environment-and-nature-lakes-b5e987404cbb8ca59c1bac2907522ef5) on the Arizona-Utah border is the guide for Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming and Utah in the upper basin. Smaller reservoirs upstream of Lake Powell have been releasing water into the massive lake so it can continue producing hydropower. But any bump from the releases that started this summer isn't factored into the five-year projections, the Bureau of Reclamation said.

The agency's projections show a 3 percent chance Lake Powell will hit a level where Glen Canyon Dam that holds it back cannot produce hydropower as early as July 2022 if the region has another dry winter.


“The latest outlook for Lake Powell is troubling,” Wayne Pullan, the bureau’s director for the upper basin, said in a statement. “This highlights the importance of continuing to work collaboratively with the basin states, tribes and other partners toward solutions.”


Lake Powell and Lake Mead, the largest man-made reservoirs in the U.S., largely rely on melted snow. They have been hard hit by persistent drought (https://apnews.com/hub/droughts) amid climate change, characterized by a warming and drying trend in the past 30 years.


Both have dipped to historic lows. The lakes had a combined capacity of 39 percent on Wednesday, down from 49 percent at this time last year, the Bureau of Reclamation said.https://indiancountrytoday.com/news/drought-hit-colorado-river-projections-grow-more-dire

[Winehole23]

1445040998527164420

[Winehole23]

https://cdn.substack.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:s teep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F 453cca8f-f59b-408d-b60f-28fa703e79ba_1190x660.png

[Thread]

Just run a water pipeline from the East to the West.

Reopen all those desalination plants up & the down the Western seaboard.

Close all the golf courses.
Close all the car washes.
Stop planting produce in the desserts.

Chop/chop!!!

[Winehole23]

could lead to generation problems later this year at Glen Canyon Dam

1498729519598895105

[Winehole23]

The low range of probable forecasts, Patno said, show that hydropower generation at the dam may become impossible before the end of 2022, marking an uncertain new reality for the 40 million people who rely on Colorado River water between Denver and Tijuana.


The dam’s hydroelectric intakes are at 3,470 feet above sea level, but as the reservoir level drops below 3,525 feet the risk of equipment damage increases due to the possibility of air passing through the turbines.
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2022/02/23/climate-change-drought/

[Winehole23]

Long-term forecasts produced by the Bureau of Reclamation in the early 2000s did not take into account the climate change-based models available at the time. In 2007, the federal agency set interim drought guidelines that are still largely in effect today, using a model that concluded there was less than a 10% probability that Lake Powell’s elevation would fall below 3,570 feet by 2050. The reservoir reached that level last March.

[Thread]

Just run a water pipeline from the East to the West.

Reopen all those desalination plants up & the down the Western seaboard.

Close all the golf courses.
Close all the car washes.
Stop planting produce in the desserts.

Chop/chop!!!

Let us proceed...

[Winehole23]

1508989734743277572

[Winehole23]

About to get real

1513657592999911426

[Winehole23]

worst drought in Cali in 1200 years, reportedly

1519098605222518785

1519140111623016448

[Thread]

If it were really that bad they'd close the golf courses and the car washes toot sweet.



If it were really that bad they'd open up those dozens of desalination plants up and down the Western seaboard.

If it were really that bad they'd construct water pipelines from the East to the West like they're running from Northern California to Southern California.


Chop/chop!!!

[Winehole23]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRuRZo1VEAAE1sW?format=jpg&name=medium

https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-las-vegas-lakes-droughts-national-park-service-97f6fa0efb74f693bdd014a2cd07c870

[Winehole23]

"unprecedented cutbacks"

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/environment-and-energy/worsening-drought-forces-interior-to-withhold-water-from-states

[boutons_deux]

they can't build, or afford to build, de-sal plants fast enough

Capitalism has fucked us all, and Capitalists DGAF. BigFinance still finaces BigOil with $100Bs

[Winehole23]

The Great Salt Lake is drying up


If the Great Salt Lake, which has already shrunk by two-thirds, continues to dry up, here’s what’s in store:

The lake’s flies and brine shrimp would die off — scientists warn it could start as soon as this summer — threatening the 10 million migratory birds that stop at the lake annually to feed on the tiny creatures. Ski conditions at the resorts above Salt Lake City, a vital source of revenue, would deteriorate. The lucrative extraction of magnesium and other minerals from the lake could stop.

Most alarming, the air surrounding Salt Lake City would occasionally turn poisonous. The lake bed contains high levels of arsenic and as more of it becomes exposed, wind storms carry that arsenic into the lungs of nearby residents, who make up three-quarters of Utah’s population.

“We have this potential environmental nuclear bomb that’s going to go off if we don’t take some pretty dramatic action,” said Joel Ferry, a Republican state lawmaker and rancher who lives on the north side of the lake.

As climate change continues to cause record-breaking drought, there are no easy solutions. Saving the Great Salt Lake would require letting more snowmelt from the mountains flow to the lake, which means less water for residents and farmers. That would threaten the region’s breakneck population growth and high-value agriculture — something state leaders seem reluctant to do.

Utah’s dilemma raises a core question as the country heats up: How quickly are Americans willing to adapt to the effects of climate change, even as those effects become urgent, obvious, and potentially catastrophic?

The stakes are alarmingly high, according to Timothy D. Hawkes, a Republican lawmaker who wants more aggressive action. Otherwise, he said, the Great Salt Lake risks the same fate as California’s Owens Lake, which went dry decades ago, producing the worst levels of dust pollution in the United States and helping to turn the nearby community into a veritable ghost town.

“It’s not just fear-mongering,” he said of the lake vanishing. “It can actually happen.”





1987:


https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/06/02/science/00cli-SALTLAKE-satellite/00cli-SALTLAKE-satellite-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale



2022:


https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/06/02/science/00cli-SALTLAKE-satellite-02/00cli-SALTLAKE-satellite-02-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale






https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/07/climate/salt-lake-city-climate-disaster.html

[Winehole23]

1536863641194049536

[boutons_deux]

Repugs are attacking index funds because they are woke about climate change, and because they disinvest in the oil and gas industry..

Iow. Freedom for the Repugs means the Repugs decide who is free from Repug political attacks and punishment.

"You must agree with us or we will hurt you" fascism

[DMC]

:lol this thread

The polar caps are melting, we'll be 20' below sea level soon!

The water is magically going away! Lakes are drying up!

Biblical level breaking of the laws of physics, bedlam is upon us. Where's Batman now?

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao DMC thinks oceans are lakes.

[Winehole23]

:lmao DMC thinks oceans are lakes.seems to think his voice throwing bit is clever, but it just makes him look like a sad, out of touch grandpa.

[Winehole23]

With the Colorado River’s depleted reservoirs continuing to drop to new lows, the federal government has taken the unprecedented step of telling the seven Western states that rely on the river to find ways of drastically cutting the amount of water they take in the next two months.

The Interior Department is seeking the emergency cuts to reduce the risks of Lake Mead and Lake Powell, the country’s two largest reservoirs, declining to dangerously low levels next year.

“We have urgent needs to act now,” Tanya Trujillo, the Interior Department’s assistant secretary for water and science, said during a speech on Thursday. “We need to be taking action in all states, in all sectors, and in all available ways.”

Trujillo’s virtual remarks to a conference at the University of Colorado Law School in Boulder underscored the dire state of the river under the stresses of climate change, and the urgency of scaling up the region’s response to stop the reservoirs from falling further. She provided details about the federal government’s approach to the crisis two days after Reclamation Commissioner Camille Calimlim Touton announced that major cuts (https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2022-06-14/big-water-cutbacks-ordered-amid-colorado-river-shortage) of between 2 million and 4 million acre-feet will be needed next year to keep reservoirs from dropping to “critical levels.”

For comparison, California, Arizona and Nevada used a total of about 7 million acre-feet.
https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2022-06-20/as-colorado-river-reservoirs-drop-states-urged-to-act-now

[Winehole23]

The Bureau of Reclamation’s required cuts of up to 4 million acre-feet is a stopgap measure, intended to only address water shortages in 2023. Beyond that, new guidelines (https://www.usbr.gov/ColoradoRiverBasin/Post2026Ops.html) must also be developed to govern water use after 2026. Schmidt and his colleagues did offer up some potential solutions that would theoretically stabilize the river in the face of continuing drought conditions. One such scenario would involve capping upper basin use at 4.5 million acre-feet per year, while the lower basin and Mexico cut their usage by 3 million acre-feet; that would put both basins at around 67 percent of their original allocation.


But Schmidt told Grid that even that sort of scenario has risks, since their analysis basically assumed the present conditions remain — but they are likely to get worse. “The atmosphere is going to keep getting warmer, which means the flow is going to keep getting less, which means the amount of cuts have to keep going down even more,” he said.


Experts agree that basically all sectors will have to make some concessions, but with 70 to 80 percent of all the water used going to agriculture, it is clear where the bulk of the reduction in use will have to come from. And while there is a very obvious requirement — both legally and practically — to come to an agreement to stabilize the river and its reservoirs, no one seems quite prepared to offer up the needed cuts just yet. In a sense, it mirrors international climate change negotiations.
https://www.grid.news/story/climate/2022/07/25/the-colorado-river-drought-is-the-first-climate-disaster-the-us-legally-has-to-deal-with/

[Winehole23]

as related to Texas

1552383686565298178

[SnakeBoy]

Experts warn California of a disaster 'larger than any in world history.' It's not an earthquake.
A new study says that as the Earth warms, a massive California flood gets more likely — one that would swamp Los Angeles, displace millions and cause historic damage.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/08/12/megafloods-could-devastate-california-new-study-says/10308979002/

[ElNono]

Experts warn California of a disaster 'larger than any in world history.' It's not an earthquake.
A new study says that as the Earth warms, a massive California flood gets more likely — one that would swamp Los Angeles, displace millions and cause historic damage.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/08/12/megafloods-could-devastate-california-new-study-says/10308979002/

bring it :tu

[SnakeBoy]

bring it :tu

I'd never heard of California’s Great Flood of 1862. Do you really want 10 feet of rain in a month and a half?

If these ARkStorm's occur in Cali every 150-200 years maybe we'll get to see one, timing is right. Would be cool to watch and lol at the libs.

[ElNono]

I'd never heard of California’s Great Flood of 1862. Do you really want 10 feet of rain in a month and a half?

If these ARkStorm's occur in Cali every 150-200 years maybe we'll get to see one, timing is right. Would be cool to watch and lol at the libs.

I couldn't care less. Plus, it's not like I get to choose. We're also not in 1862 anymore, tbh, there was no drainage or anything like that back then.

And if that nukes a few houses/neighborhoods and have to build up again, bring it. Big fuck you to the NIMBYs.

[SnakeBoy]

I couldn't care less. Plus, it's not like I get to choose. We're also not in 1862 anymore, tbh, there was no drainage or anything like that back then.

And if that nukes a few houses/neighborhoods and have to build up again, bring it. Big fuck you to the NIMBYs.

According to the study, a similar flood now would displace 5 million to 10 million people, cut off the state’s major freeways for perhaps weeks or months with massive economic damage, and submerge major Central Valley cities as well as parts of Los Angeles.

You're denying the climate science.

[ElNono]

According to the study, a similar flood now would displace 5 million to 10 million people, cut off the state’s major freeways for perhaps weeks or months with massive economic damage, and submerge major Central Valley cities as well as parts of Los Angeles.

You're denying the climate science.

Mostly in Sacramento and inland. If they all move to Utah, it'll be better for California long term :tu

[CosmicCowboy]

So was the flood of 1862 weather or climate change?

[ElNono]

So was the flood of 1862 weather or climate change?

pre-industrial era, can't pin it on carbon

[ElNono]

Though if you ask Qhris, it was probably a CIA program from the deep state funded by the Rothschild (even though the CIA didn't exist before 1947).

[CosmicCowboy]

pre-industrial era, can't pin it on carbon

If the exact amount of rainfall in 2023 falls that fell in 1862 will it be weather or climate change?

[Winehole23]

^^^ devil's advocate for the dreckeffekt, open minded to the last!

[ElNono]

If the exact amount of rainfall in 2023 falls that fell in 1862 will it be weather or climate change?

We certainly have the tools to look into this much more scientifically now. I don't think we have that from 1862.

[Winehole23]

Chinook/Coho runs, CA native tribes threatened by water diversion


On Aug. 17, the Shasta River Water Association sent a letter (https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/shasta-river-water-assn-letter.docx) to the Division of Water Rights Deputy Director Erik Ekdahl, informing the agency of plans to defy the curtailment order through exceptions listed by the order.


“The Shasta River Water Association has chosen to follow the suggested curtailment of 15% on the Shasta River,” the association said in its letter. “We will start pumping to supply water to livestock as the weather is over 90 degrees per the suggestion. We will also follow the suggestion to fill ponds for fire suppression and attempt to water the tree base to reduce fire hazards to the community and our families.”


The association closed its letter by saying it "looks forward to working with the numerous agencies in effort to protect the health of the river. At this time, we are choosing to protect the health of livestock, wildlife and families.”
https://www.courthousenews.com/northern-california-ranchers-defy-state-orders-to-cut-water-usage/

[Winehole23]

Klamath Irrigation District bows up to regulators


Tucker also sees the situation as a test of whether the state can keep water in rivers as the climate continues to dry. “I think if these guys get away with it here, next thing you know, farmers and ranchers are just going to ignore state agencies and federal agencies when they try to regulate,” said Tucker.


And that’s what nearly happened in southern Oregon on Monday. As reported by Capital Press (https://www.capitalpress.com/ag_sectors/water/klamath-irrigation-district-defies-order-to-cease-water-deliveries/article_78d8923e-2245-11ed-a1d3-738be4de18b2.html), the Klamath Irrigation District announced plans to defy the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation’s orders to halt water deliveries to farmers in the region.

[baseline bum]

I'd never heard of California’s Great Flood of 1862. Do you really want 10 feet of rain in a month and a half?

If these ARkStorm's occur in Cali every 150-200 years maybe we'll get to see one, timing is right. Would be cool to watch and lol at the libs.

LOL all those libs in the central valley

[Winehole23]

What does that mean for the country’s food supply?
This is the big question. I don’t want to be flippant, but people don’t understand the food-water nexus. Do we try to bring more water to the southern high plains, to Arizona, to California, because if the food system’s optimized, maybe that’s the cheapest thing to do? Or does agriculture move to where the water is? Does it migrate north and east? It’s not just food production. What about the workers? Transportation? If we were to move all of our agriculture to northern California, into Idaho, into North Dakota over the next decade, that’s a major upheaval for millions and millions of people who work in the ag industry.


It’s really interconnected, isn’t it? The nation essentially expanded West beginning in the 19th century in order to build a food system that could support East Coast growth. The Homestead Act, the expansion of the railroads, was partially to put a system in place to bring stock back to the meat houses in Chicago and to expand farming to supply the urban growth in the East.
I don’t think a lot of people really realize that, right? When I go to the grocery store in Saskatoon, my berries are coming from Watsonville, California. The lettuce is coming from Salinas, California.
https://www.propublica.org/article/colorado-river-water-shortage-jay-famiglietti

[Winehole23]

Water wars. It’s an idea that gets batted around a whole bunch. Once, negotiating water use more than a century ago, California and Arizona amassed armed state guard troops on opposite banks of the Colorado River. Is this hyperbole or reality for the future?
Well, it’s already happening. Florida and Georgia were in court as was Tennessee. There’s the dispute between Texas and New Mexico. Even within California they’re still arguing environment versus agriculture, farmers versus fish, north versus south. Sadly, we’re at a point in our history where people are not afraid to express their extreme points of view in ways that are violent. That’s the trajectory that we’re on. When you put those things together, especially in the southern half or the southwestern United States, I think it’s more of a tinderbox than it ever has been.


That’s hopeful.
You’re not going to get any hope out of me. The best you’re going to get out of me is we can manage our way through.

[Winehole23]

“Mexico has overdeveloped their water supply,” Hinojosa said. “They’re farming desert land. They increased their acreage with water that should have gone to the US. And it was US companies doing it.”

“It’s gonna get real interesting,” he said, leaning back into his leather chair.



https://www.texasobserver.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/AmistadFalconReservoirChart.pnghttps://www.texasobserver.org/rio-grande-water-drifting-toward-disaster/

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If the exact amount of rainfall in 2023 falls that fell in 1862 will it be weather or climate change?

Only simpletons take a single data point and handwave. Used to be extreme weather events were the outliers not that they never happened. The actuarial data from the past 75 years is plain as is the tracking of data points.

[Th'Pusher]

If the exact amount of rainfall in 2023 falls that fell in 1862 will it be weather or climate change?
DoEs cLiMatE cHanGe eXisT?!?

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't deny that climate change exists but I also believe a lot of normal weather is blamed on climate change. Bad hurricanes, etc.

[Winehole23]

I don't deny that climate change exists but I also believe a lot of normal weather is blamed on climate change. Bad hurricanes, etc.not in this thread. extraordinary, long lasting drought is the theme.

a hurricane along the Rio Grande would be very welcome, tbh.

[Winehole23]

The Dallas-Fort Worth region in particular is pinning its hopes on several new reservoirs — including the recently completed Bois d’Arc Lake in Fannin County, which is still “waiting on rain (https://www.kltv.com/2022/10/14/north-texas-municipal-water-district-celebrates-completion-bois-darc-lake/)” to fill up.

Two counties to the east, plans to dam the Sulphur River and flood thousands of acres for the benefit of growing North Texas cities have alarmed local residents whose homes and land could be swallowed by a new reservoir.
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/31/texas-water-plan-reservoirs-climate-change/

[leemajors]

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/31/texas-water-plan-reservoirs-climate-change/

Couldn't possibly have downstream/unintended effects

[Winehole23]

drill baby drill


“Our research has shown that the groundwater in the lower basin has been disappearing nearly seven times faster than the combined water losses from Lakes Powell and Mead,” said Jay Famiglietti, a hydrology professor and executive director of the University of Saskatchewan’s Global Institute for Water Security. “Groundwater losses of that magnitude are literally an existential threat to desert cities like Phoenix and Tucson.”https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nation-and-world/i-dont-think-there-is-enough-water-colorado-river-crisis-stokes-worry-in-arizona-2701985/

[Winehole23]

Good luck, Rio Verde

https://www.12news.com/article/news/local/water-wars/rio-verde-residents-prepare-to-lose-water-on-sunday/75-dc39a0f9-b658-4189-8c65-e2f545b85499

[Winehole23]

Sounds bad



The Great Salt Lake in Utah is facing “unprecedented danger,” experts say, as it has fallen to an alarmingly low level (http://www.cnn.com/2022/07/06/us/great-salt-lake-record-low-climate/index.html) amid a climate change-fueled megadrought that’s tightening its grip in the West.

Less than two weeks away from Utah’s 2023 legislative session, nearly three dozen scientists and conservationists released a dire report (https://pws.byu.edu/great-salt-lake) that calls on the state’s lawmakers to take “emergency measures” to save the Great Salt Lake before drains to nil.

Without a “dramatic increase” in inflow by 2024, experts warn the lake is set to disappear in the next five years.



The Great Salt Lake, plagued by excessive water use and a worsening climate crisis, has dropped to record-low levels two years in a row. The lake is now 19 feet below its natural average level and has entered “uncharted territory” after losing 73% of its water and exposing 60% of its lakebed, the report notes.

“The lake’s ecosystem is not only on the edge of collapse. It is collapsing,” Benjamin Abbott, a professor of ecology at Brigham Young University and lead author of the report, told CNN. “It’s honestly jaw-dropping and totally disarming to see how much of the lake is gone. The lake is mostly lakebed right now.”
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/06/us/great-salt-lake-disappearing-drought-climate/index.html

[Winehole23]

Mind bogglingly dumb, just wildly guessing what to do instead of conserving water.

Alfalfa accounts for ~68% of water drawn from the Great Salt Lake. Saudi Arabia banned it in 2018 -- they grow their supply in the US now.

1616638653010423809

[MultiTroll]

drill baby drill

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nation-and-world/i-dont-think-there-is-enough-water-colorado-river-crisis-stokes-worry-in-arizona-2701985/
As far as these recent rains helping, yes of course they did.
Thought the article said barely tho. Urgently need about 10 more rains like this and that was just to go up a small level.

[Winehole23]

1622277220155924482

1622277224861962240

1622277229278560256

1622277233074110464

[Winehole23]

Is there a word or idiom that describes the slow approach of a big problem everyone sees, while doing nothing to stop it?


Summers marked by roiling, poisonous clouds sweeping in off the lake is something that “of course worries me”, says Mendenhall. A host of respiratory, cardiac and cancer-related problems could be stirred through the city’s 200,000-strong population, which is part of a broader string of urban and suburban development of 2.8 million people wedged between the lake and the Wasatch mountain range in Utah (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/utah).https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/18/salt-lake-city-mayor-erin-mendenhall-utah-great-lake-decline-climate-crisis

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Is there a word or idiom that describes the slow approach of a big problem everyone sees, while doing nothing to stop it?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/18/salt-lake-city-mayor-erin-mendenhall-utah-great-lake-decline-climate-crisis

You can put a frog in boiling water and it will attempt to escape. Put a frog in water brought to a boil and it will die oblivious.

[Winehole23]

You can put a frog in boiling water and it will attempt to escape. Put a frog in water brought to a boil and it will die oblivious.Not a bad analogy, but the Great Salt Lake *could* dry up in about 5 years. Barring a biblical flood, that burner is on high.

[boutons_deux]

Is there a word or idiom that describes the slow approach of a big problem everyone sees, while doing nothing to stop it?https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/18/salt-lake-city-mayor-erin-mendenhall-utah-great-lake-decline-climate-crisisthe big problem is extremely profitable for the oligarchy causing the big problem, the same oligarchy owns and operates with Untouchable power, so the people who will suffer from the big problem are powerless

[Winehole23]

the big problem is extremely profitable for the oligarchy causing the big problem, the same oligarchy owns and operates with Untouchable power, so the people who will suffer from the big problem are powerlessuntouchable power you say. the putatively powerless masses. it's almost like the privileges of ownership crowd everything else out for you.

[Winehole23]

are you an owner, boutons?

[Winehole23]

Arizona officials announced Thursday the state will no longer grant certifications for new developments within the Phoenix area, as groundwater rapidly disappears amid years of water overuse and climate change-driven drought.

A new study showed that the groundwater supporting the Phoenix area likely can’t meet additional development demand in the coming century, officials said at a news conference. Gov. Katie Hobbs and the state’s top water officials outlined the results of the study looking at groundwater demand within the Phoenix metro area, which is regulated by a state law that tries to ensure Arizona’s housing developments, businesses and farms are not using more groundwater than is being replaced.

The study found that around 4% of the area’s demand for groundwater, close to 4.9 million acre-feet, cannot be met over the next 100 years under current conditions – a huge shortage that will have significant implications for housing developments in the coming years in the booming Phoenix metro area, which has led the nation in population growth.

State officials said the announcement wouldn’t impact developments that have already been approved. However, developers that are seeking to build new construction will have to demonstrate they can provide an “assured water supply” for 100 years using water from a source that is not local groundwater.https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/01/us/arizona-phoenix-groundwater-limits-development-climate/index.html

[Extra Stout]

Las Vegas is next.

[Extra Stout]

And then Salt Lake City.

It will start to hit Texas in the 2040’s.

[Winehole23]

Is there a word or idiom that describes the slow approach of a big problem everyone sees, while doing nothing to stop it?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/18/salt-lake-city-mayor-erin-mendenhall-utah-great-lake-decline-climate-crisisI still can't pick a winner for this one, one has yet to emerge.

[MultiTroll]

Gov. Katie Hobbs Shuts Down Corrupt GOP Deal With Saudi Arabia For Arizona Water (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/gov-katie-hobbs-shuts-down-corrupt-gop-deal-with-saudi-arabia-for-arizona-water/ar-AA1hDa8T?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5e83b66158ee48ad80a3159c20fbf4fb&ei=10)