There is No God (And You Know It)

[Nbadan]

An excerpt from An Atheist Manifesto, to be published at www.truthdig.com in December.


Somewhere in the world a man has abducted a little girl. Soon he will rape, torture, and kill her. If an atrocity of this kind not occurring at precisely this moment, it will happen in a few hours, or days at most. Such is the confidence we can draw from the statistical laws that govern the lives of six billion human beings. The same statistics also suggest that this girl’s parents believe -- at this very moment -- that an all-powerful and all-loving God is watching over them and their family. Are they right to believe this? Is it good that they believe this?

No.

The entirety of atheism is contained in this response. Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply a refusal to deny the obvious. Unfortunately, we live in a world in which the obvious is overlooked as a matter of principle. The obvious must be observed and re-observed and argued for. This is a thankless job. It carries with it an aura of petulance and insensitivity. It is, moreover, a job that the atheist does not want.

It is worth noting that no one ever need identify himself as a non-astrologer or a non-alchemist. Consequently, we do not have words for people who deny the validity of these pseudo-disciplines. Likewise, “atheism” is a term that should not even exist. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make when in the presence of religious dogma. The atheist is merely a person who believes that the 260 million Americans (eighty-seven percent of the population) who claim to “never doubt the existence of God” should be obliged to present evidence for his existence -- and, indeed, for his benevolence, given the relentless destruction of innocent human beings we witness in the world each day. Only the atheist appreciates just how uncanny our situation is: most of us believe in a God that is every bit as specious as the gods of Mount Olympus; no person, whatever his or her qualifications, can seek public office in the United States without pretending to be certain that such a God exists; and much of what passes for public policy in our country conforms to religious taboos and superstitions appropriate to a medieval theocracy. Our circumstance is abject, indefensible, and terrifying. It would be hilarious if the stakes were not so high.

Consider: the city of New Orleans was recently destroyed by hurricane Katrina. At least a thousand people died, tens of thousands lost all their earthly possessions, and over a million have been displaced. It is safe to say that almost every person living in New Orleans at the moment Katrina struck believed in an omnipotent, omniscient, and compassionate God. But what was God doing while a hurricane laid waste to their city? Surely He heard the prayers of those elderly men and women who fled the rising waters for the safety of their attics, only to be slowly drowned there. These were people of faith. These were good men and women who had prayed throughout their lives. Only the atheist has the courage to admit the obvious: these poor people spent their lives in the company of an imaginary friend.

Of course, there had been ample warning that a storm “of biblical proportions” would strike New Orleans, and the human response to the ensuing disaster was tragically inept. But it was inept only by the light of science. Advance warning of Katrina’s path was wrested from mute Nature by meteorological calculations and satellite imagery. God told no one of his plans. Had the residents of New Orleans been content to rely on the beneficence of the Lord, they wouldn’t have known that a killer hurricane was bearing down upon them until they felt the first gusts of wind on their faces. And yet, a poll conducted by The Washington Post found that eighty percent of Katrina’s survivors claim that the event has only strengthened their faith in God.

As hurricane Katrina was devouring New Orleans, nearly a thousand Shiite pilgrims were trampled to death on a bridge in
Iraq. There can be no doubt that these pilgrims believed mightily in the God of the Koran. Indeed, their lives were organized around the indisputable fact of his existence: their women walked veiled before him; their men regularly murdered one another over rival interpretations of his word. It would be remarkable if a single survivor of this tragedy lost his faith. More likely, the survivors imagine that they were spared through God’s grace.

Only the atheist recognizes the boundless narcissism and self-deceit of the saved. Only the atheist realizes how morally objectionable it is for survivors of a catastrophe to believe themselves spared by a loving God, while this same God drowned infants in their cribs. Because he refuses to cloak the reality of the world’s suffering in a cloying fantasy of eternal life, the atheist feels in his bones just how precious life is -- and, indeed, how unfortunate it is that millions of human beings suffer the most harrowing abridgements of their happiness for no good reason at all.

Of course, people of faith regularly assure one another that God is not responsible for human suffering. But how else can we understand the claim that God is both omniscient and omnipotent? There is no other way, and it is time for sane human beings to own up to this. This is the age-old problem of theodicy, of course, and we should consider it solved. If God exists, either He can do nothing to stop the most egregious calamities, or He does not care to. God, therefore, is either impotent or evil. Pious readers will now execute the following pirouette: God cannot be judged by merely human standards of morality. But, of course, human standards of morality are precisely what the faithful use to establish God’s goodness in the first place. And any God who could concern himself with something as trivial as gay marriage, or the name by which he is addressed in prayer, is not as inscrutable as all that. If He exists, the God of Abraham is not merely unworthy of the immensity of creation; he is unworthy even of man.

There is another possibility, of course, and it is both the most reasonable and least odious: the biblical God is a fiction. As Richard Dawkins has observed, we are all atheists with respect to Zeus and Thor. Only the atheist has realized that the biblical god is no different. Consequently, only the atheist is compassionate enough to take the profundity of the world’s suffering at face value. It is terrible that we all die and lose everything we love; it is doubly terrible that so many human beings suffer needlessly while alive. That so much of this suffering can be directly attributed to religion -- to religious hatreds, religious wars, religious delusions, and religious diversions of scarce resources -- is what makes atheism a moral and intellectual necessity. It is a necessity, however, that places the atheist at the margins of society. The atheist, by merely being in touch with reality, appears shamefully out of touch with the fantasy life of his neighbors.

Sam Harris, Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20051007/cm_huffpost/008459)

I'm not an atheist, but to each his own.

:hat

[Medvedenko]

I like it...kind of heavy handed....like a dogmatic proffession.....hmmm...

[gtownspur]

Weak. NOThing new.. "GOd doesnt exist because there's cruelty in the world" that is something i've heard from stoners in sixth grade in middle school.. what a dumbass!!

if you want a good philosopher or apologist for belief in God check COrnelius Van Tilt!

[bigzak25]

An excerpt from An Atheist Manifesto, to be published at www.truthdig.com in December.



Sam Harris, Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20051007/cm_huffpost/008459)

I'm not an atheist, but to each his own.

:hat


then what are you? take a stand for ONCE. STOP HIDING!

TIME TO COME OUT.

i'd guess you are of muslim background.

perhaps homosexual.

if i am wrong, please correct me.

I am here to tell you there is a God.


if you want a good philosopher or apologist for belief in God check COrnelius Van Tilt!

or better yet, read the 1st 4 books of the new testament. A prophet, known as the Son of Man, the Son of God, Jesus, makes no apologies. He only speaks the TRUTH. BELIEVE...or be damned...the choice is YOURS 2 Make.

Goodluck. :tu

[mookie2001]

yeah only homesexuals and muslims dont believe in god
wait...

[bigzak25]

mookie, what the fuck are you talking about?

[Nbadan]

then what are you? take a stand for ONCE. STOP HIDING!

TIME TO COME OUT.

i'd guess you are of muslim background.

perhaps homosexual.

if i am wrong, please correct me.

I am here to tell you there is a God.

I believe in a superior being, just not sure if he is your God.

Even in chaos we find order, so there has to be more than our tiny brains can comprehend.

Believing in Evolution and believing in God are not mutually exclusive.

[bigzak25]

I believe in a superior being, just not sure if he is your God.

Even in chaos we find order, so there has to be more than our tiny brains can comprehend.

Believing in Evolution and believing in God are not mutually exclusive.


I agree with all of this. :tu

[Oh, Gee!!]

I don't know that there is a God, I don't know that there is not. I don't care really. I'll just go on being me--crazy old me.

[bigzak25]

you'll care one day, but it will be too late.

[RandomGuy]

I believe in a superior being, just not sure if he is your God.

Even in chaos we find order, so there has to be more than our tiny brains can comprehend.

Believing in Evolution and believing in God are not mutually exclusive.

Yup. I have a lot of coffee table discussions about this very thing.

The universe is a VERY big place. I think it is just as arrogant to completely dismiss God altogether.


But what about the Babel fish? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/hitchhikers/guide/babelfish.shtml)

[Gatita]

mookie, what the fuck are you talking about?

I've been trying to figure that out myself, for sometime now. Its like he purposely chooses to be bad at writing. :bang

[Nbadan]

There's an old saying which goes that in times of war, there are no atheists in the foxhole. This is funny, but I think it philosophically relates to the very core of what religion means to most people, hope when there is no hope, prayer when there is little good, salvation when all is lost. It's a very empowering feeling.

Meaning to a otherwise mudane human experience.

[RandomGuy]

Meaning to a otherwise mudane human experience.


So God is like warm oozy, yummy chocolate chip cookies? (drools) :lol

[Oh, Gee!!]

you'll care one day, but it will be too late.

assuming (1) there is a god and (2) that god cares whether I believe in his existence.

[Dos]

this only proves man is in control of his own destiny... God has basically left it up to man to believe in him or not... to follow His precepts or not... to live by a universal truth or not... but thats to philospical for some to think about...

[bigzak25]

There's an old saying which goes that in times of war, there are no atheists in the foxhole. This is funny, but I think it philosophically relates to the very core of what religion means to most people, hope when there is no hope, prayer when there is little good, salvation when all is lost. It's a very empowering feeling.

Meaning to a otherwise mudane human experience.

that is the problem. many do not turn to HIM until they have no other choice.

choose to Believe when you have a choice, and i mean TRULY BELIEVE, and He will KNOW you, and you will have eternal life.

there will be many that will turn to Him when the Nuclear Holocaust is upon us. sadly, it will be too late for most of them.

do not fool yourselves. we are in the Last Days. are you ready?

[SWC Bonfire]

there will be many that will turn to Him when the Nuclear Holocaust is upon us. sadly, it will be too late for most of them.

do not fool yourselves. we are in the Last Days. are you ready?

For the machines? You watch too many Schwartzeneger movies.

[Oh, Gee!!]

this only proves man is in control of his own destiny... God has basically left it up to man to believe in him or not... to follow His precepts or not... to live by a universal truth or not... but thats to philospical for some to think about...


I wouldn't say anything has been proven. But if you do decide to take it on faith that there is God (and/or salvation), this is the logical conclusion that you would reach.

[IcemanCometh]

The is no God there is only Zuul

[Mr. Peabody]

that is the problem. many do not turn to HIM until they have no other choice.

choose to Believe when you have a choice, and i mean TRULY BELIEVE, and He will KNOW you, and you will have eternal life.
there will be many that will turn to Him when the Nuclear Holocaust is upon us. sadly, it will be too late for most of them.

do not fool yourselves. we are in the Last Days. are you ready?

If I don't get enternal life because I don't believe in him, I guess I never really did have much of a choice. It's either believe or get f*cked.
________
How To Roll A Joint (http://howtorollajoint.net/)

[Mr. Peabody]

The is no God there is only Zuul

Not Zuul, not God, but Zod.

http://www.sutv.org/zod-sticker.gif
________
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[Nbadan]

this only proves man is in control of his own destiny... God has basically left it up to man to believe in him or not... to follow His precepts or not... to live by a universal truth or not... but thats to philospical for some to think about...

Yes, but sometimes man has within him the power to commit great evil or great good in the name of his religious beliefs.

[Mr. Peabody]

assuming (1) there is a god and (2) that god cares whether I believe in his existence.

God does care whether you believe. You see, he is extremely insecure, which is odd because most people in his position have a God complex (damn, I'm funny).

You could live a good life, be kind, generous, and loving, but if you don't give God his due, he will be vengeful.
________
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[Mr. Peabody]

this only proves man is in control of his own destiny... God has basically left it up to man to believe in him or not... to follow His precepts or not... to live by a universal truth or not... but thats to philospical for some to think about...

Not really, not if he punishes him for not believing. Also, how can you choose to believe in something or not? I mean, either you believe in a thing or you don't, I don't think you can really choose one way or the other. You would just be kidding yourself.
________
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[bigzak25]

Yes, but sometimes man has within him the power to commit great evil or great good in the name of his religious beliefs.


exactly right my friend. any true believer in God and Jesus Christ will only raise arms against those seen as evil. And even then, only when necessary to protect the innocent.

the others that committ great evil have a religious belief system that is not based on Jesus Christ or His Father. the beliefs of the evil are based on Satan and the defeat of Truth and Love, which is what Jesus is all about brother.

opposite of Truth and Love?

Lies and Lust.

just like Kanye says, we are at war.

with terrorism. with racism. with ourselves. Wake Up!

much of our outwardly projected hate stems from inner hate.
self-hate, self-regret. self-pity.

why do people lie? cuz they lie to themselves!!!

the Truth shall set you Free.

Love conquers All.

remember. :tu

[Mr. Peabody]

exactly right my friend. any true believer in God and Jesus Christ will only raise arms against those seen as evil. And even then, only when necessary to protect the innocent.



If you really believe in God and that God knows all and will reward/punish you based on your actions on Earth, why the need to raise arms? Why the need to protect the innocent?

The innocent will ultimately be rewarded for their innocence and the evil will ultimately be punished. If this world is merely temporary, why the need to see justice done here, when justice will eventually be done by the Almighty?
________
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[bigzak25]

Not really, not if he punishes him for not believing. Also, how can you choose to believe in something or not? I mean, either you believe in a thing or you don't, I don't think you can really choose one way or the other. You would just be kidding yourself.



if you choose to not believe? you punish yourself.

it's called free will.

Life is a test.

will we have Faith in the Lord our Father and His Son Jesus Christ

without 'scientific proof'?

That's the whole point of FAITH, my friend.

To BELIEVE what you cannot see.

But i'll tell you a secret.

When one flushes all the bullshit from their lives, and set themselves free by turning their lives over to God 100%?

One's vision becomes much, much clearer.

I see much good now...much God.

But I also see much evil.

it is a mixed blessing.

I feel I am here to help shine a light for others to see.

I must not point it directly in their faces or they will turn away.

i must be subtle.

i am learning. day by day. i still have much to learn.

May Godbless us.

[bigzak25]

If you really believe in God and that God knows all and will reward/punish you based on your actions on Earth, why the need to raise arms? Why the need to protect the innocent?

The innocent will ultimately be rewarded for their innocence and the evil will ultimately be punished. If this world is merely temporary, why the need to see justice done here, when justice will eventually be done by the Almighty?


because I do not believe it is God's will for the innocent to suffer.

it is a consequence of destroying evil.

the innocent must be saved when possible so that they have more time to turn to Him.

but you are correct in that the Final Judgement is in God's Hands and only His Hands.

I do not know His plan. I could be wrong. I am learning, but I am still very ignorant. I have much of the Good Book left to read. :tu

[Mr. Peabody]

if you choose to not believe? you punish yourself.



That's my point. How can you choose to believe or not believe in something?

If I offered you a billion dollars to believe that you were a giraffe, you may tell me that you believe, but not matter how hard you tried, you wouldn't not be able to make yourself really believe that you were a giraffe.

You don't choose to believe or not believe in the existence of something.
________
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[bigzak25]

For the machines? You watch too many Schwartzeneger movies.


many men are already machines.

working only for money, power and sex. escaping with drugs and alcohol.

it's reality, not a movie. wake up.

[Mr. Peabody]

the innocent must be saved when possible so that they have more time to turn to Him.



What if they don't have enough time to turn to him? Do the innocent suffer with all the non-believers?
________
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[bigzak25]

That's my point. How can you choose to believe or not believe in something?

If I offered you a billion dollars to believe that you were a giraffe, you may tell me that you believe, but not matter how hard you tried, you wouldn't not be able to make yourself really believe that you were a giraffe.

You don't choose to believe or not believe in the existence of something.


then tell me what you believe in?

[Mr. Peabody]

then tell me what you believe in?

I don't believe in Elvis, I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me.
________
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[bigzak25]

What if they don't have enough time to turn to him? Do the innocent suffer with all the non-believers?



that is a Good question.

if by innocent you mean one that has never sinned, then I believe that God will not judge them harshly. the majority in this category are children. I cannot believe that God would turn innocent children away.

[bigzak25]

I don't believe in Elvis, I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me.


then I shall pray for you. God loves you, man...His Son Jesus showed us the way. watch and learn. it's not too late. :tu

[Mr. Peabody]

that is a Good question.

if by innocent you mean one that has never sinned, then I believe that God will not judge them harshly. the majority in this category are children. I cannot believe that God would turn innocent children away.

So then believing in God is not necessary, but merely....encouraged.
________
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[bigzak25]

So then believing in God is not necessary, but merely....encouraged.


it is necessary for salvation.

you have free will.

nobody will force you.

you always have a choice.

what will you choose?

the darkness or the light?


tick tock, tick tock...

[Mr. Peabody]

it is necessary for salvation.

you have free will.

nobody will force you.

you always have a choice.

what will you choose?

the darkness or the light?


tick tock, tick tock...

But you just said that God would not turn away innocent children who did not believe in Him. So then belief is not necessary, only encouraged or recommended.
________
Sexfactor (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/sexfactor/)

[bigzak25]

But you just said that God would not turn away innocent children who did not believe in Him. So then belief is not necessary, only encouraged or recommended.


i've never claimed to be the all knowing, my friend.

if you are an innocent child? you can take your chances.

but you are not. you are a stubborn person that chooses the dark

because you cannot see the light.

hint hint...open your eyes, the light is right in front of you. :tu

Goodluck. I've already prayed for you. The rest is up to you.

[bigzak25]

But you just said that God would not turn away innocent children who did not believe in Him. So then belief is not necessary, only encouraged or recommended.

also, i said no such thing. i NEVER said God would not turn away children who did not believe in Him. i said, i do not believe that He would turn away innocent children that do not Know of Him.

there is a difference.
one is ignorance of the truth, the other is denial of the truth.

[Guru of Nothing]

you are a stubborn person that chooses the dark

because you cannot see the light.

hint hint...open your eyes, the light is right in front of you. :tu



"Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding."

... or so I've heard.

[bigzak25]

"Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding."

... or so I've heard.



now watch this....

Yet MISERY AND MAN'S INFESTATIONS
arise from the same source.
this source is called DARKNESS.

any questions?

i gotta go, wifey is on my arse. til next time. Godlbess.

[Mr. Peabody]

also, i said no such thing. i NEVER said God would not turn away children who did not believe in Him. i said, i do not believe that He would turn away innocent children that do not Know of Him.

there is a difference.
one is ignorance of the truth, the other is denial of the truth.

But those who do not know of Him obviously do not believe in him. How can you believe in something you do not know about?

Also, how can God punish children who do not believe in Him? Obviously they cannot investigate these matters for themselves, most of them are dependent on their parents for any spiritual guidance.

So what if a child asks his atheist parent about God and the parent says, "he doesn't exist." Can we then fault the child for not believing?

I am only asking your opinion. What do you think?
________
Head Shop (http://headshop.net/)

[bigzak25]

But those who do not know of Him obviously do not believe in him. How can you believe in something you do not know about?

Also, how can God punish children who do not believe in Him? Obviously they cannot investigate these matters for themselves, most of them are dependent on their parents for any spiritual guidance.

So what if a child asks his atheist parent about God and the parent says, "he doesn't exist." Can we then fault the child for not believing?

I am only asking your opinion. What do you think?

the pure of heart see many things that we do not.

i will read more and see if i can find an answer for you.

when we are young, we look to our parents for guidance.

many times they are lost themselves. this is a sad but true fact.

there comes a time in our lives when we can no longer

point the finger at our parents for the choices we make.

i believe that an innocent child's soul will NOT be sent to Hell.

God is vengeful, but fair. He is a LOVING God. We are all his children.

Innocent children are His uncorrupted angels. Why would He send them

to hell? It makes no sense.

[JoeChalupa]

There sure are a lot of "God" threads on this board.



Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[cecil collins]

When one flushes all the bullshit from their lives, and set themselves free by turning their lives over to God 100%?

One's vision becomes much, much clearer.

I see much good now...much God.

But I also see much evil.

it is a mixed blessing.

I feel I am here to help shine a light for others to see.

I must not point it directly in their faces or they will turn away.

i must be subtle.

i am learning. day by day. i still have much to learn.

May Godbless us.

I think christianity only adds bullshit and makes your vision murkier. Good effort trying to scare some people with the thought of eternal hellfire, but that is just another useful scare tactic. The bible is full of shit.

[Mr. Peabody]

God is vengeful, but fair.

Do you really think God is vengeful? Isn't that a somewhat negative trait to have? I mean, c'mon, if God really is vengeful and holds grudges because you don't believe in him or don't worship him, doesn't that make him somewhat of an ass? You know, it's like being all-powerful and creating the universe is not enough for this guy. He needs to be well-liked. He is the Willie Loman of deities (my 2nd Death of a Salesman reference in a week -- thank you English freshman year of high school).
________
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[cecil collins]

God is like T.O.(this is a sports website.)

[Spam]

Do you really think God is vengeful? Isn't that a somewhat negative trait to have? I mean, c'mon, if God really is vengeful and holds grudges because you don't believe in him or don't worship him, doesn't that make him somewhat of an ass? You know, it's like being all-powerful and creating the universe is not enough for this guy. He needs to be well-liked. He is the Willie Loman of deities (my 2nd Death of a Salesman reference in a week -- thank you English freshman year of high school).

Thank you Mr. Knowitall!!

[Triumph]

I think christianity only adds bullshit and makes your vision murkier. Good effort trying to scare some people with the thought of eternal hellfire, but that is just another useful scare tactic. The bible is full of shit.


yes yes, try pulling your head out of your ass and you might see even clearer...:lmao



the bible is not a 'scare tactic'. The Book is a recipe for salvation.

you have the wrong point of view my friend.

i can argue more, but let me go lick my nutz, it's my moment of zen.

[SpursWoman]

There's an old saying which goes that in times of war, there are no atheists in the foxhole. This is funny, but I think it philosophically relates to the very core of what religion means to most people, hope when there is no hope, prayer when there is little good, salvation when all is lost. It's a very empowering feeling.

Meaning to a otherwise mudane human experience.


Well, I'd certainly like to think that my loved ones as well as myself move on to something better when they die. That whole "decomposing and getting devoured by maggots" and then ...... nothing ...... kind of leaves me cold.

:fro

[Oh, Gee!!]

God is a Concept by which
we measure our pain
I'll say it again
God is a Concept by which
we measure our pain
I don't believe in magic
I don't believe in I-ching
I don't believe in Bible
I don't believe in Tarot
I don't believe in Hitler
I don't believe in Jesus
I don't believe in Kennedy
I don't believe in Buddha
I don't believe in Mantra
I don't believe in Gita
I don't believe in Yoga
I don't believe in Kings
I don't believe in Elvis
I don't believe in Zimmerman
I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me...and that reality

The dream is over
What can I say?
the Dream is Over
Yesterday
I was the Dreamweaver
But now I'm reborn
I was the Walrus
But now I'm John
and so dear friends
you'll just have to carry on
The Dream is over

[Yonivore]

It always boils down to the question, "Where did matter come from?"

[Oh, Gee!!]

It always boils down to the question, "Where did matter come from?"


What is matter? Never mind.
What is mind? Never matters.
:owned

[Triumph]

I just believe in me...and that reality


so this begs the question...who are you?

a lost man with the beatles on your mind?

you can learn alot from the beatles if you know how to look.


Help (this is a song about needing the Help of Jesus, check the lyrics, see for yourself)

Yesterday (this song speaks about holding onto the pain of the past. it is a SAD song. we are not supposed to hold onto the pain of the past. learn what NOT to do from this song)

let all the pain from your past go brother. wake up. you are only dead if you choose to be. it's YOUR choice. choose LIFE. wake up...the sun feels great!

rub some sunshine on you face...today can be the 1st day of the rest of your life...

[Oh, Gee!!]

so this begs the question...who are you?

a lost man with the beatles on your mind?

you can learn alot from the beatles if you know how to look.


Help (this is a song about needing the Help of Jesus, check the lyrics, see for yourself)

Yesterday (this song speaks about holding onto the pain of the past. it is a SAD song. we are not supposed to hold onto the pain of the past. learn what NOT to do from this song)

let all the pain from your past go brother. wake up. you are only dead if you choose to be. it's YOUR choice. choose LIFE. wake up...the sun feels great!

rub some sunshine on you face...today can be the 1st day of the rest of your life...

you are so insightful













































not! :stfu

[gtownspur]

^I wouldnt go about and act superior because you believe in what you only see. it doesnt take much introspection to come up with that.THE REASON YOU ARE AFRAID TO BELIEVE IN ANYTHING HIGHER THAN YOURSELF CAN BE BECAUSE YOU ARE DEATHLY AFRAID OF CONFRONTING SUCH THINGS. kind of like the same way the whole public would react if there were other Intelligent life from other worlds who visited us. ANd ofcourse there can be many reasons of cowardice and the fact that you enjoy not having to awnser for your wrong. This is no insight at all. SO take it, i'm sure it will not jog your brain to exhaustion.

[Oh, Gee!!]

^I wouldnt go about and act superior because you believe in what you only see. it doesnt take much introspection to come up with that.THE REASON YOU ARE AFRAID TO BELIEVE IN ANYTHING HIGHER THAN YOURSELF CAN BE BECAUSE YOU ARE DEATHLY AFRAID OF CONFRONTING SUCH THINGS. kind of like the same way the whole public would react if there were other Intelligent life from other worlds who visited us. ANd ofcourse there can be many reasons of cowardice and the fact that you enjoy not having to awnser for your wrong. This is no insight at all. SO take it, i'm sure it will not jog your brain to exhaustion.

You have no clue what I believe. I posted the lyrics to a John Lennon song not my religious beliefs you douche.

[Guru of Nothing]

so this begs the question...who are you?

a lost man with the beatles on your mind?

you can learn alot from the beatles if you know how to look.


Help (this is a song about needing the Help of Jesus, check the lyrics, see for yourself)

Yesterday (this song speaks about holding onto the pain of the past. it is a SAD song. we are not supposed to hold onto the pain of the past. learn what NOT to do from this song)

let all the pain from your past go brother. wake up. you are only dead if you choose to be. it's YOUR choice. choose LIFE. wake up...the sun feels great!

rub some sunshine on you face...today can be the 1st day of the rest of your life...

Don't forget Why Don't We Do It in the Road, which implies that the truth is always found somewhere near the center, correct?

[Spurminator]

:lol

I hear the lost fourth verse of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" had something to do with the Crucifi... Wait, I probably shouldn't go there...

[gtownspur]

You have know clue what I believe. I posted the lyrics to a John Lennon song you douche.

Dont be a coward and dodge from what you have posted before the stupid song.(as if you posted the song for just kicks. :rolleyes ) You said you dont believe in God, you believe in yourself. Live up to what you said. If i called you on it and i hurt your feelings, i'm sorry,...NOT! Grow balls you coward.

I bet your now gonna deflect my statement by claiming your all of a sudden agnostic.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Dont be a coward and doge from what you have posted before the stupid song.(as if you posted the song for just kicks. :rolleyes ) You said you dont believe in God, you believe in yourself. Live up to what you said. If i called you on it and i hurt your feelings, i'm sorry,...NOT! Grow balls you coward.

I bet your now gonna deflect my statement by claiming your all of a sudden agnostic.

Show me where I said I didn't believe in God

[gtownspur]

My bad, you said you dont know anything and dont care. But even at that your still acting like a tart to somone who was trying to show you how he sees it, and to anyone that was very assinine.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Show me where I said I didn't believe in God


gtown just got owned like the little bitch that he is

[Oh, Gee!!]

My bad

at least you admit to being owned.

[gtownspur]

misqouting you doent constitute being owned bitch. Your just another brick on the wall. I wouldnt celebrate if you were all on my jock, and i cant see how anyone would brag about getting approval from you.

[Oh, Gee!!]

gtown just went on my Ignore List

[gtownspur]

IF it makes your life better, and it will help to boost your IQ along with knowing that your sperm donor has been promoted to fry grill at the Burger Tex, then by all means go ahead and claim victory. I mean you didnt win a blow up doll or anything but its a shiny day for you by all means.

[gtownspur]

gtown just went on my Ignore List
No dont do that,.. (sarcasm) i'll miss all those man love emails you sent. :lol

[Guru of Nothing]

gtown just went on my Ignore List

Live and Let Die is now the working Beatles reference.

[Mr. Peabody]

^I wouldnt go about and act superior because you believe in what you only see. it doesnt take much introspection to come up with that.THE REASON YOU ARE AFRAID TO BELIEVE IN ANYTHING HIGHER THAN YOURSELF CAN BE BECAUSE YOU ARE DEATHLY AFRAID OF CONFRONTING SUCH THINGS. kind of like the same way the whole public would react if there were other Intelligent life from other worlds who visited us. ANd ofcourse there can be many reasons of cowardice and the fact that you enjoy not having to awnser for your wrong. This is no insight at all. SO take it, i'm sure it will not jog your brain to exhaustion.

I disagree. I think people who cling to belief in a higher power or an afterlife are deathly afraid of the idea that this may be it. There is no higher power looking out for us or making sense of seemingly random acts. There is no afterlife in which we are rewarded for all of the good things that we do that go unseen. We will not be reunited with our loved ones after death, once they're gone, they're gone. We are alone in a cold and dark universe that will someday itself die and then there will be nothing.

These aren't comforting thoughts and I think to accept these sobering ideas as your reality takes just as much introspection as believing in God.

So get off your soapbox and quit looking down on people who have opinions that are different from your own.
________
Live sex (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[MannyIsGod]

Zak,

Perhaps you should leave the speaking out on Christianity to those who present it in a much better manner.

Sorry dude, but you're doing a really shitty job and condescending Christians - intentional or not - such as yourself are a main reason why I will never put myself in that type of surrounding.

[gtownspur]

I disagree. I think people who cling to belief in a higher power or an afterlife are deathly afraid of the idea that this may be it. There is no higher power looking out for us or making sense of seemingly random acts. There is no afterlife in which we are rewarded for all of the good things that we do that go unseen. We will not be reunited with our loved ones after death, once they're gone, they're gone. We are alone in a cold and dark universe that will someday itself die and then there will be nothing.

These aren't comforting thoughts and I think to accept these sobering ideas as your reality takes just as much introspection as believing in God.

So get off your soapbox and quit looking down on people who have opinions that are different from your own.

I'm sorry but as much as you spin it.. Eternal hell sounds much worse than non existance.

[bigzak25]

Zak,

Perhaps you should leave the speaking out on Christianity to those who present it in a much better manner.

Sorry dude, but you're doing a really shitty job and condescending Christians - intentional or not - such as yourself are a main reason why I will never put myself in that type of surrounding.


perhaps. but until i see another with the balls to speak the truth, i will carry on and carry the torch. but you are right, i am only beginning to see and i am still blind.

maybe i am doing a shitty job. i will take your criticism to heart and concentrate on reading the Bible much more than I have. my intention is to bring non-believers, such as yourself, into the fold, not push them further away.

but why fear a condescending opinion? unless one has insecurity about their own self-truths. my opinion does not matter one bit to anyone but myself. as it is with anyone. as it should be. what you are saying is that you do not want anyone judging you and refuse to put yourself in a surrounding where you might be judged, in a surrouding, where you feel the people their will believe their shit don't stink.

i've got news for you. my shit stinks. i don't pretend to be holier than thou. i readily admit my ignorance, but it is something i don't like and something i will fight to overcome. i am not here to pass judgement. i refuse to pass judgement. i let peoples own words pass judgement on themselves. if it appears as condescending, then so be it.

i am a mirror. people can look away if they cannot handle the truth.

but i do love you, man. and i definitely respect you.

i know you have Good intentions, so please continue with any constructive criticism as I feel it helps me to post better.

I mean this sincerely,

Thanks. :tu


sac

[cecil collins]

I disagree. I think people who cling to belief in a higher power or an afterlife are deathly afraid of the idea that this may be it. There is no higher power looking out for us or making sense of seemingly random acts. There is no afterlife in which we are rewarded for all of the good things that we do that go unseen. We will not be reunited with our loved ones after death, once they're gone, they're gone. We are alone in a cold and dark universe that will someday itself die and then there will be nothing.

These aren't comforting thoughts and I think to accept these sobering ideas as your reality takes just as much introspection as believing in God.

So get off your soapbox and quit looking down on people who have opinions that are different from your own.
Agreed. It's easy to never question what your parents taught you to believe from the time you were to young to tie your shoes.

[cecil collins]

perhaps. but until i see another with the balls to speak the truth

Takes a lot of balls to perpetuate some rhetoric that has been spewed for thousands of years.

i am a mirror. people can look away if they cannot handle the truth.
What makes it the truth?

[jochhejaam]

You could live a good life, be kind, generous, and loving, but if you don't give God his due, he will be vengeful.
If you lived a good life, were kind, generous and loving yet ignored, disowned and utterly and completely failed to acknowledge those that had provided you with the attention, love and nurture you needed in order for you to even exist, then you should be branded as nothinig more than a hypocrite for imagining that you could possibly qualify as one that would trumpet the mantra of "being a good person" with any sense of conviction.

[Mr. Peabody]

If you lived a good life, were kind, generous and loving yet ignored, disowned and utterly and completely failed to acknowledge those that had provided you with the attention, love and nurture you needed in order for you to even exist,

So if I ignore, disown and utterly and completely fail to acknowledge those that provided me with life, I deserve eternal damnation? That seems a little extreme. I would think that all of you would be a little more kind to your loved ones. In that sense, I guess we are superior to God in that we can forgive those that we love and not wish harm upon them no matter their actions.
________
Live Sex Webshows (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[Mr. Peabody]

I'm sorry but as much as you spin it.. Eternal hell sounds much worse than non existance.

I don't know. Non-existence is very frightening to us in the Western world. It is evident in that our concept of the afterlife involves us maintaining our identity. To have that identity extinguished,never to return, is a scary thought for many.
________
ARETHA cam (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/ARETHA)

[BronxCowboy]

I guess I'm in the wrong place. I thought this was the political forum (?)

[jochhejaam]

Do you really think God is vengeful? Isn't that a somewhat negative trait to have? I mean, c'mon, if God really is vengeful and holds grudges because you don't believe in him or don't worship him, doesn't that make him somewhat of an ass? You know, it's like being all-powerful and creating the universe is not enough for this guy.
Do you know the absolutes that God asks us to live by and if you do which of those do you have a problem with?

There are laws all over the place and if we break them is that the fault of those that established the perameters of what is and isn't acceptable or does the fault lie with those that knew the parameters and willfully chose to exceed those boundaries. Do you seriously define that as God being vengeful? What does our breaking laws have to do with the lawgiver being vengeful?

Let me help you with the answer, there isn't anything approaching vengence there. The asses are the ones that think they can ignore laws with total immunity and aren't responsible enough to accept the consequences when they breach existing law.

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE=Mr. Peabody]So if I ignore, disown and utterly and completely fail to acknowledge those that provided me with life, I deserve eternal damnation? That seems a little extreme.
It's applied evenly, applies to everyone and it is what it is. Feel free to take it up with God if you choose, He'll listen, it's up to you to decide if you wish to learn to figure out how to look and listen for His response, it's there if you want it bad enough.



I would think that all of you would be a little more kind to your loved ones. In that sense, I guess we are superior to God in that we can forgive those that we love and not wish harm upon them no matter their actions.
You're just beggin' for scriputer Peabod...not just yet.
He doesn't wish anyone harm, that's why He makes His precepts and tenets we are to live by and the consequence of ignoring them crystal clear. If we break those guidelines and ask for forgiveness then forgiveness is what we get.

[jochhejaam]

I guess I'm in the wrong place. I thought this was the political forum (?)
No problemo, you are forgiven for you transgression.

[smeagol]

perhaps. but until i see another with the balls to speak the truth, i will carry on and carry the torch. but you are right, i am only beginning to see and i am still blind.

maybe i am doing a shitty job. i will take your criticism to heart and concentrate on reading the Bible much more than I have. my intention is to bring non-believers, such as yourself, into the fold, not push them further away.

but why fear a condescending opinion? unless one has insecurity about their own self-truths. my opinion does not matter one bit to anyone but myself. as it is with anyone. as it should be. what you are saying is that you do not want anyone judging you and refuse to put yourself in a surrounding where you might be judged, in a surrouding, where you feel the people their will believe their shit don't stink.

i've got news for you. my shit stinks. i don't pretend to be holier than thou. i readily admit my ignorance, but it is something i don't like and something i will fight to overcome. i am not here to pass judgement. i refuse to pass judgement. i let peoples own words pass judgement on themselves. if it appears as condescending, then so be it.

i am a mirror. people can look away if they cannot handle the truth.

but i do love you, man. and i definitely respect you.

i know you have Good intentions, so please continue with any constructive criticism as I feel it helps me to post better.

I mean this sincerely,

Thanks. :tu


sac
I like the new Zak :tu

[gtownspur]

I don't know. Non-existence is very frightening to us in the Western world. It is evident in that our concept of the afterlife involves us maintaining our identity. To have that identity extinguished,never to return, is a scary thought for many.


Its not that it's scary. Its that its incomprhensible. Let me give you an example. IF you took a poll(excluding CBF, OH Gee, and Guru of Nothing), and asked wether you'd rather take it in the anus eternally by a large hung demon than not exist. You'd get a unaninmous "I'd rather be extinct!!"

[bigzak25]

Takes a lot of balls to perpetuate some rhetoric that has been spewed for thousands of years.

What makes it the truth?


perpetuate some rhetoric?

excuse you.

what do you think your doing?

the non-believers have been spewing just as long my friend.

what makes you think you have the truth.

I have the following:

Love conquers all.
Truth sets you free.

JESUS IS LOVE AND JESUS SET US ALL FREE.

what do you have?


So if I ignore, disown and utterly and completely fail to acknowledge those that provided me with life, I deserve eternal damnation? That seems a little extreme. I would think that all of you would be a little more kind to your loved ones. In that sense, I guess we are superior to God in that we can forgive those that we love and not wish harm upon them no matter their actions.

you guess wrong.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son.

checkmate. :tu



Its not that it's scary. Its that its incomprhensible. Let me give you an example. IF you took a poll(excluding CBF, OH Gee, and Guru of Nothing), and asked wether you'd rather take it in the anus eternally by a large hung demon than not exist. You'd get a unaninmous "I'd rather be extinct!!"


there are many people in this world that are raped by a 'demon' so to speak. it is horrific, sad, and unfortunate that such a traumatic experience does in fact rob them of their identities and thus may have a propensity to make them 'extinct' as you so eloquently put it. it is therefore, not as incomprehensible as you may think, my friend.

[gtownspur]

^lighten up. I'm sorry if it hit home because of someone you know, that was not my intention. I was just trying to prove a point by using extremes. Unfortunately it was taken as a blanket endorsement of rape.

[gtownspur]

I'd also like to point out that 99.9% of the time people chose "self extinction", it is not done in a stable state of mind that would decide whether such things as eternal damnation or annihalation are more desirable.

[Nbadan]

Repenting has never been easier - IGOD (http://www.titane.ca/concordia/dfar251/igod/main.html)

[RandomGuy]

It always boils down to the question, "Where did matter come from?"

Matter is composed of very tiny strings osciallating at different frequencies. These tiny strings came from the collision of two 11 (or 26)dimensional membranes and the oscillation of that impact (think of the surface of a busy swimming pool) caused some points of those two membranes to be closer together than other points. Wherever those two membranes were closer, matter clumped.

Or at least that is what quantum physics has come up with so far. This has some interesting implications, like parallel dimensions.

[RandomGuy]

NIMA ARKANI-HAMED (Harvard University): Gravity certainly does not look weak in everyday life. It's responsible for keeping our feet on the ground and keeping Earth spinning around the Sun and so on, but actually gravity is incredibly weak compared to the, to the other forces. This is easy to appreciate if you take an ordinary refrigerator magnet and stick it on top of a metal pin. We all know this fridge magnet will actually pick that pin up off the table, so that sort of dramatically illustrates how feeble gravity is compared even to the magnetic force of a tiny fridge magnet.

LISA RANDALL: It turns out that there are very new ideas on how to explain the weakness of gravity if we have extra dimensions.

NARRATOR: When M Theory emerged, Randall and her colleagues wondered if it might provide the explanation. Could gravity be leaking from our Universe into the empty space of the eleventh dimensions?

NIMA ARKANI-HAMED: Gravity might only appear to be weak even though it's fundamentally just as strong as everything else because it dilutes its strength out in all these extra dimensions that we can't see.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/parallelunitrans.shtml

[RandomGuy]

Or...

You can try to understand this bit:
The main problem in Cosmology is: where does MASS comes from, at the most fundamental level? To find that answer physicists try to find via large accelerators the Higgs boson which should be a spin-zero particle with nonzero mass.

The central point of our approach is that MASS is created by a very special non-ecludian manifold. We call that manifold: a pelastration. By movements of a space - which has an infinite elastic membrane - parts of that space can be doubled, ... that way creating - locally - a new dimension (or layer) of a part of that same space. It's at first sight a paradox, but it is in fact adding a kind of 'isolated' part. The incident manifold location acts like a type of pressure valve, a wormhole. A new double layered tube is created with other internal conditions (tension, space curvature, horizon, density, ....), and general and specific local movements create friction between the layers ... creating resonance and all other interactions (EM, strong and weak forces).
This pelastration approach is not contradictory to most basics of the Superstring theory and M-Brane theory. (To us the Kaluza-Klein approach contains anti-unification elements since it creates discrete 'traps' which boundary/brane origin is mystic again. In stead of simplifying KK makes it even more complex). When we start from a MAMA-Brane which is unbreakable, and super-elastic (but has it's limits in stretchability) then the Mama-Brane can create strings, which are thus parts of the brane. The basic 'difference' to all previous scientific approaches is that the Brane (and following sub-branes) is unbreakable. That's essential. The creation of a string can start on two levels: (1) starting via an outer bending of the Mama-Brane, or (2) starting via an inner bending of the Mama-Brane. (more). This has implications on the further layering since the center tube will be different. (see layering paradoxes)
Essential is the possibility to couple parts of the Mama-Brane. This goes by complete penetrations (several types), called pelastrations.
This new type of Branification approach explains the essential boundaries to understand 'gauge' levels of spin. What we call Spin is thus caused by orientation or layer-history.
The essence of string theory: 'The subatomic particles we see in nature are nothing more than different resonances of the vibrating superstrings' is also respected in this approach. Resonances are however mechanical string-contacts, and not 'magic' fiels.

Different combinations of these manifolds and combinations with other types of connections create the basic particles of our Universe, thus: leptons, quarks and mediators (bosons). The black area (below) is only a section of the membrane.
The combinations of these basic particles create the more dense levels of matter as we know them. Each time a connection is made with another tube the qualities or appearance changes.

Since the original space (Void) is surrounded by an unbreakable almost infinite elastic membrane each particle is in fact connected with each other by the membrane which becomes thus gravity. [You can compare this with the blood-vessel system in our body: there is only one wand (blood cells can flow anywhere inside)]. The small tubes have internal shifting layer movements which provoke specific vibrations in the total microtube, that way creating resonance with other similar microtubes in the neighborhood or through the common membrane. Such interactions create the weak, electromagnetic and strong forces.
A microtube can be called a quantum package, a wave, a particle, a string ...depending from the observers point of view ... but the tube concept adds the common membrane which acts as the graviton field. Only with one starting 'membrane tube' everything can be explained. This approach can although also be applied on a torus which gives a more complex approach....

http://www.mu6.com/

It gets wierder, too...

[boutons]

Yes, quantum physics is weird and getting weirder, beyond rationalism, mathematics, intuition. yes, even getting into, horrors!!, meta-physics.

Literal Bible thumpers, IDer's, creationists look stupider with every passing day. They are a living insult to humanity, and God.

[jochhejaam]

Literal Bible thumpers, IDer's, creationists look stupider with every passing day. They are a living insult to humanity, and God.
Creationists are an insult to God? Presuming God thinks that those that support his creativity are stupid is the pinnacle of arrogance and stupidity At least your consistent.

[Mr. Peabody]

Creationists are an insult to God? Presuming God thinks that those that support his creativity are stupid is the pinnacle of arrogance and stupidity At least your consistent.

Well, if God gave you the faculties to inquire about your surroundings and search for answers and explanations in the universe, he might look down on those who merely accept what they have been told, instead of using the intelligence he blessed them with to seek answers for themselves.
________
Vape info (http://johan-luis.tumblr.com/)

[jochhejaam]

Well, if God gave you the faculties to inquire about your surroundings and search for answers and explanations in the universe, he might look down on those who merely accept what they have been told, instead of using the intelligence he blessed them with to seek answers for themselves.
Which is what Creationist scientists are doing but not to the exclusion of God...Hello!

[JoeChalupa]

God is good...God is healthy and wise.

[RandomGuy]

Which is what Creationist scientists are doing but not to the exclusion of God...Hello!



:rollin
Creationist "scientists"

:lmao

Say that again.

Creationist scientists attempt at ever turn to dismiss evolution, and turn their backs on their god-given intellects.

Heh, I noticed that nobody has tried to explain the Babel Fish yet... ;)

[gtownspur]

The scientific method can only discredit the genesis account. But it can't discredit the theory of Divine creation. You cannot prove that There was Divine creation and you also cant disprove it.

[jochhejaam]

Creationist "scientists"

Say that again.
Creationist scientists attempt at ever turn to dismiss evolution, and turn their backs on their god-given intellects.

The term simply refers to scientists that believe in Creation and that gets a lmao smiley? :lol

It would be helpful if you would do some independent research before posting but I'll do it for you.
Here's some information for you from the Institute for Creation Research including a partial yet extensive list Scientists of the Physical Sciences and another extensive list of those in the Biological Sciences (all of who would surely make you look like "little johnny dumdum" when it comes to knowledge of these sciences and there corresponding research). There's also info into the areas of research in their graduate programs.

Today there are thousands of scientists who are creationists and who repudiate any form of molecules-to-man evolution in their analysis and use of scientific data. Creation scientists can now be found in literally every discipline of science, and their numbers are increasing rapidly. Evolutionists are finding it increasingly difficult to maintain the fiction that evolution is "science" and creation science is "religion". When news media personnel and others make such statements today, they merely reveal their own liberal social philosophies — not their awareness of scientific facts. http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=research&action=index&page=research_physci

Seriously consider giving something resembling an authorative and educated response to this area of study by educating yourself.
At least then you'll be able to post something deeper and more substantial than a wisecrack and a couple of smileys.

[RandomGuy]

I am very familiar with the scientific method thank you.

I will never bother with reading much about "creation" science because it is a conclusion looking for evidence, not the other way around.

When you start with a given set of faith-based assumptions (see the "tenets" page on the IRC), and then go out and only look for data that supports your conclusion THAT is not science.

It is a bit like weighing a gnat and a small dog on a balance scale with your thumb on the side with the gnat and then saying "AHA!! I told you this gnat weighs more than the Chiahuahua!"

Whenever this group encounters something that doesn't fit, they can wave their hands and say "God did it".

"the RATE group suspects that a large amounts of radioactive decay may have occurred during the first two and a hald days of Creation as part of the supernatural Creation process."
Pg2 of http://www.icr.org/pdf/research/RATE_ICC_Vardiman.pdf

That isn't science, that is theology.

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE=RandomGuy]
I will never bother with reading much about "creation" science because it is a conclusion looking for evidence, not the other way around.
Evolution has it's own conclusion it's Adaption plus Time equals Evolution, so what it comes down to, given your admitted myopia regarding scientific study into ID, is that you fall into the category aforementioned which is that you have merely revealed your own liberal social philosophies.
You cling with every fiber of your being to a theory, even to the exclusion of viable alternative scientific study, as if it's a law. The true scientific community welcomes alternative scientific study.
Another conclusion promoted by evolutionists is that there is no God and with that unprovable conclusion they then set out to discover how we came into existence.



When you start with a given set of faith-based assumptions (see the "tenets" page on the IRC), and then go out and only look for data that supports your conclusion THAT is not science.
Evolution starts out and ends with the "faith based" assumption that there is no God and they move on from there. The evolutionist's assumptions are no more or less valid than those in the scientific study of ID so why the acrimonious and unwarranted assault on ID's scientific study?




It is a bit like weighing a gnat and a small dog on a balance scale with your thumb on the side with the gnat and then saying "AHA!! I told you this gnat weighs more than the Chiahuahua!"Whenever this group encounters something that doesn't fit, they can wave their hands and say "God did it".
Thanks for the silly preschool analogy, next time don't bother and save the wear and tear on your keyboard.
Now can you come up with a scientifically sound reason why ID can never be substantiated through study or why they are wasting their time with study?

Related question, would you happen to be an atheist or agnostic?






That isn't science, that is theology.
Evolution and athiesm go hand in hand and many feel that athiesm is also a religion, so I'll match your unprovable statement and say that evolution isn't science, it's theology.

[jochhejaam]

Atheism is listed in the BBC website in it's list of Religions.

One of the definitions of religion is A cause, a principle, or an activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion." -
Atheists pursuit their theory of evolution fits nicely into this defition.

Atheist Rites and Rituals

People often mark the major life stage events in life - like being born, getting married and so on - with religious ceremonies like christenings, weddings and funerals.

Atheist and Humanist organisations offer their own rituals for these events that give them meaning and significance without any religious content.

Ceremonies:
Namings, Weddings, Funerals

Such a ceremony can have as much significance and be as dignified as a religious ceremony.

These ceremonies differ from mainstream secular ceremonies like civil weddings, in that they are highly personalised for the individuals concerned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/atheism/


In fact, Atheists comprise the third largest religion in the World

1. Christianity: 2.1 billion

2. Islam: 1.3 billion

3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion

4. Hinduism: 900 million

5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million

6. Buddhism: 376 million

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

[RandomGuy]

Evolution has it's own conclusion it's Adaption plus Time equals Evolution, so what it comes down to, given your admitted myopia regarding scientific study into ID, is that you fall into the category aforementioned which is that you have merely revealed your own liberal social philosophies.
You cling with every fiber of your being to a theory, even to the exclusion of viable alternative scientific study, as if it's a law. The true scientific community welcomes alternative scientific study.

Egads, Jochhe, I have I touched a nerve? I guess I must have by the level of hostility evident in your post. You will pardon me if I do not return the favor.

You make an awful lot of assumptions about what I believe in here, so let's start with that.

I am sure your mention of "liberal social philosophies" was meant as an epithet, as most conservatives think people who don't agree with them are some form of sub-human, but I am a liberal, and I do have social philosphies, so: mea culpa.

I do not "cling with every fiber of [my] being to a theory". That is the job of creationists, as their statement of tenets readily attests.

In the balance of things, I think the weight of evidence simply doesn't support the theory of a universe that is only a few thousand years old. There is no more, or no less to it than that. Give me a theory supported by evidence to make it work, holds up to honest peer review, and I will give it the weight it deserves. A good critical thinker would do no less for any topic.

As for "evolution has it's own conclusion", you have it backwards. Evolution is simply an attempt to encompass the bulk of available evidence. Evolution IS a conclusion, but does not HAVE conclusions.


Another conclusion promoted by evolutionists is that there is no God and with that unprovable conclusion they then set out to discover how we came into existence.

Not all "evolutionists" are atheists. The conclusion that there is no God is not part of evolutionary theory that I know of. Perhaps you have read different books on it than I have.


Evolution starts out and ends with the "faith based" assumption that there is no God and they move on from there. The evolutionist's assumptions are no more or less valid than those in the scientific study of ID so why the acrimonious and unwarranted assault on ID's scientific study?


Acrimonious? (shrugs) If you say so. I will try to ratchet it down then, as it really wasn't my intention.


Thanks for the silly preschool analogy, next time don't bother and save the wear and tear on your keyboard.
Now can you come up with a scientifically sound reason why ID can never be substantiated through study or why they are wasting their time with study?


I thought my analogy rather apt. I find that simplifying things makes concepts more relatable to my readers/listeners. I am told I am rather good at explaning complicated concepts to lay people, so I think I will keep bothering with them, thank you.

Hmm, scientifically sound reason...
I will decline. Honestly, this is not a debate that holds much interest for me, as I think it has been done to death.
I think ID pretty much lands in the realm of pseudoscience (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience) as wikipedia lays it out. I really don't feel it deserves much weight.


Related question, would you happen to be an atheist or agnostic?

Niether.

I can assume you think of yourself as a Christian, then?


Evolution and athiesm go hand in hand and many feel that athiesm is also a religion, so I'll match your unprovable statement and say that evolution isn't science, it's theology.

You can "match" my "unprovable" statement and say that apples are turnips, but that doesn't make you right about that either.

In the end, ID is simply a new tactic from Biblical literalists to cloak the Bible in the mantle of science, and somehow shoehorn reality into something that makes a literal interpretation of the Bible possible.

The big problem is that the universe doesn't jibe with this. THAT is the ultimate weakness of ID theory.

[RandomGuy]

In fact, Atheists comprise the third largest religion in the World

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Actually, according to the website given above:
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist:
This is a highly disparate group and not a single religion. Although atheists are a small subset of this grouping, this category is not synonymous[author's emphasis] with atheism...

Different type of data collection methodologies using different types of questions showed a consistent pattern: In most countries only a tiny number of people (zero to a fraction of 1 percent) will answer "atheism" or "atheist" when asked an open-ended question about what their religious preference."

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE=RandomGuy]Egads, Jochhe, I have I touched a nerve? I guess I must have by the level of hostility evident in your post. You will pardon me if I do not return the favor.
I'll pardon you for misreading my post as hostile if you'd like. :)





In the balance of things, I think the weight of evidence simply doesn't support the theory of a universe that is only a few thousand years old. There is no more, or no less to it than that. Give me a theory supported by evidence to make it work, holds up to honest peer review, and I will give it the weight it deserves. A good critical thinker would do no less for any topic.
I have a thought of my own on the age and aging techniques used to date the earth, tell me what you think of it.
If God has always been, as I believe, let's assume for arguements sake that the substances he used to create the earth have always been, wouldn't that account for the dating of the earth reaching into the millions of years? I haven't heard of any discussion regarding this possibility. There could be good reason why there's not.
There is a readily detectable degree of angst and an obvious bias from atheists directed towards Religion/God. I would surmise that this is easily transferred to those many scientists who believe in God and wish to confront the evolutionists theory with ID research through scientific study of their own.




I can assume you think of yourself as a Christian, then?
I have a deep and heartfelt love for God and Jesus Christ but I do not see myself as realizing the potential of aligning my life with that of Christ's to the point where others would see Him through me and be impacted or reactive because of that aligning.
That being said tomorrow is a new day.

[jochhejaam]

Actually, according to the website given above:
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist:
This is a highly disparate group and not a single religion. Although atheists are a small subset of this grouping, this category is not synonymous[author's emphasis] with atheism...

Different type of data collection methodologies using different types of questions showed a consistent pattern: In most countries only a tiny number of people (zero to a fraction of 1 percent) will answer "atheism" or "atheist" when asked an open-ended question about what their religious preference."
However you slice the pie of atheism the sum total is 1.1 billion. If they answer Agnostic, Atheist or Humanist or any of the other groups that deny the existence of a diety it all amounts to the same thing, disbelief in God. There are varying degrees of Atheistic fervor just as there are with Christianity, and they can range from apathetic to luke warm to zealous.

To each his own. :)

[RandomGuy]

I have a thought of my own on the age and aging techniques used to date the earth, tell me what you think of it.
If God has always been, as I believe, let's assume for arguements sake that the substances he used to create the earth have always been, wouldn't that account for the dating of the earth reaching into the millions of years? I haven't heard of any discussion regarding this possibility. There could be good reason why there's not.

I think that sounds reasonable, given what I know of the particulars of radiological dating and such things. I understand the process of radioactive decay, but that is about it.

My expertise lies elsewhere. :)


There is a readily detectable degree of angst and an obvious bias from atheists directed towards Religion/God. I would surmise that this is easily transferred to those many scientists who believe in God and wish to confront the evolutionists theory with ID research through scientific study of their own.

More power to 'em. Healthy scientific debate is a good thing. Assumptions should be challenged. You and I are both for that.


I have a deep and heartfelt love for God and Jesus Christ but I do not see myself as realizing the potential of aligning my life with that of Christ's to the point where others would see Him through me and be impacted or reactive because of that aligning.
That being said tomorrow is a new day.

We are more in agreement on this bit than you might think.
;)

[Oh, Gee!!]

What the fuck is the point? Why the hell does anyone still argue about the existence of God these days? It makes no difference. Either side will continue to believe whatever they want to believe no matter what evidence they are presented with.

[Mr. Peabody]

What the fuck is the point? Why the hell does anyone still argue about the existence of God these days? It makes no difference. Either side will continue to believe whatever they want to believe no matter what evidence they are presented with.

Ummm, I am pretty sure that I can convince these people that there is no God.
________
The Peak Towers Condo (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)

[Oh, Gee!!]

Ummm, I am pretty sure that I can convince these people that there is no God.

You sir couldn't convince Tom Benson to move the Saints to SA. :pctoss

[bigzak25]

What the fuck is the point? Why the hell does anyone still argue about the existence of God these days? It makes no difference. Either side will continue to believe whatever they want to believe no matter what evidence they are presented with.

the point is salvation. i am not here to argue. i am here to guide. to show people the way so that they can turn to Jesus 100% and thus, save themselves through Him. yes, i am still blind, but i am seeing more day by day. I won't give up on anyone. The hardest and most stubborn are those that judge themselves looking down instead of up. I was there, we all are/were. But you are right, ultimately, Mankind must make a choice. Such is free will.

I will say this,

Do not trust me, do not trust any man.
Do not trust your mind or your heart.

All of the above are decievers.

Trust in Jesus. He is the Life, the Truth, the Way.



Ummm, I am pretty sure that I can convince these people that there is no God.

that's because your God is yourself.

lets put your faith in yourself to the test.

go ahead and convince me my friend. :tu

All the science in the world cannot overcome my faith.

But you are free to try.

Plus, I assume that those that are such hardline Believers in Man and Science have in fact done their scientific research.

Meaning, I have to assume that those that want to teach that there is no God must have read the Bible. At least the New Testament, i'd avoid revelation if I was you, and then at least Proverbs and Psalms from the Old Testament.

I mean, i'm on the book of Mark right now, i'm just beginning, so I offer no credentials for myself whatsoever.

I offer NONE. Except my faith.

So put all yours on the table, vs. my faith, and lets play the game of life shall we?

who is 1st to cast their stone?

hit me, i am unarmed except for the Good Book. :)

[Mr. Peabody]

that's because your God is yourself.

lets put your faith in yourself to the test.

go ahead and convince me my friend. :tu

All the science in the world cannot overcome my faith.

But you are free to try.

Plus, I assume that those that are such hardline Believers in Man and Science have in fact done their scientific research.

Meaning, I have to assume that those that want to teach that there is no God must have read the Bible. At least the New Testament, i'd avoid revelation if I was you, and then at least Proverbs and Psalms from the Old Testament.

I mean, i'm on the book of Mark right now, i'm just beginning, so I offer no credentials for myself whatsoever.

I offer NONE. Except my faith.

So put all yours on the table, vs. my faith, and lets play the game of life shall we?

who is 1st to cast their stone?

hit me, i am unarmed except for the Good Book. :)

You should quit taking yourself so seriously.

If you could not tell that I was joking in my response to Oh, Gee!!, you should quit reading the Bible and start living life.
________
DEPAKOTE SIDE EFFECTS (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/depakote/)

[RandomGuy]

What the fuck is the point? Why the hell does anyone still argue about the existence of God these days? It makes no difference. Either side will continue to believe whatever they want to believe no matter what evidence they are presented with.

Heh, until we get giant flaming letters in the sky letting us know what the Big Guy (Gal, Elephant, whatever) is thinking, we will have to keep debating...

[RandomGuy]

You should quit taking yourself so seriously.

If you could not tell that I was joking in my response to Oh, Gee!!, you should quit reading the Bible and start living life.

Yeah, talk about melodrama.


http://www.trephination.net/gallery/macros/ohdramaimage.jpg

[bigzak25]

You should quit taking yourself so seriously.

If you could not tell that I was joking in my response to Oh, Gee!!, you should quit reading the Bible and start living life.


agreed. but please know that i do not take myself seriously, i am but a fool.

however, i will take your advice to heart and go feed my dog now.

and then look at the paper for employment opportunities as I am in

need of a job in the worst way. i am sorry to have misinterpreted your post,

but you see, i take many posts here at face value.

especially in a thread such as this one where such contrasting viewpoints

have been layed on the table. i guess i just didn't get the joke.

my apologies. :tu

[JoeChalupa]

Believe and let live.

[RandomGuy]

agreed. but please know that i do not take myself seriously, i am but a fool.

however, i will take your advice to heart and go feed my dog now.

and then look at the paper for employment opportunities as I am in

need of a job in the worst way. i am sorry to have misinterpreted your post,

but you see, i take many posts here at face value.

especially in a thread such as this one where such contrasting viewpoints

have been layed on the table. i guess i just didn't get the joke.

my apologies. :tu

No apologies to make. We all take ourselves a bit seriously here sometimes, myself being one of the worst offenders... Give your foofer a scratch behind the ears for me.

[Guru of Nothing]

If there is a heaven and a hell, all I ask is that I don't wind up in the same place as this guy.

http://www.tbn.org/about/newsletter/0102/010205.jpg

[Marcus Bryant]

Ditto, GoN.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's sad when I drive past that scumbag's temple to himself on the death loop.

[Mr. Peabody]

If there is a heaven and a hell, all I ask is that I don't wind up in the same place as this guy.

http://www.tbn.org/about/newsletter/0102/010205.jpg

Who is that guy?
________
Web shows (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[Guru of Nothing]

The one, the grotesque, the only, John Hagee (http://www.rickross.com/reference/tv_preachers/tv_preachers7.html)

[Swishy McJackass]

Ugh, that link about Hagee's earnings makes me want to vomit.

[bigzak25]

any true Man of Jesus does not hoard money and riches.

save maybe. provide for their family yes. but greedily hoard? NO.

that is the sure sign of a false witness.

when I make my millions from music? watch as I give it all away to the needy.

I will keep some for my family and such. the rest? I will give it away.

talk is cheap. no one will believe me until I do it. so please, just be patient. :tu

[Spam]

I do that now.