So say Kawhi doesn't get moved this summer or at deadline...

[davi78239]

Then what happens? If still wants out and he walks for free next summer then what for the Spurs? Do they blow it up, rebuild? Would they then try and move LMA (would he be on his last yr of contract). I would hope FO has some time of plan already in place.

[exstatic]

Then what happens? If still wants out and he walks for free next summer then what for the Spurs? Do they blow it up, rebuild? Would they then try and move LMA (would he be on his last yr of contract). I would hope FO has some time of plan already in place.

If they don’t get good offers this summer, I can see them doing what OKC did with Harden: take into camp, but not into the season. They moved The Beard in October. The only thing you can’t do is get nothing. You move him at the deadline if he’s still here.

[Othyus Lalanne]

i am not watching till this drama is over. Not as a protest, i just like to know what team i have.

[tholdren]

Stop watching nba. Its for kids

[K...]

you can trade him to the WNBA too, don't forget that.

[cd98]

They may need Kawhi to play so he can establish his value by showing he’s healthy and still an all NBA first team talent. That’s if they don’t want discounted offers. That said, if he’s not traded by camp, a lot of his value goes down bc teams that trade for him outside LA will need time to convince him to stay.

[DPG21920]

If Kawhi really tries screwing SA over not trading him may happen. It’s unlikely, but if Kawhi doesn’t do his part to make things palatable I can see SA saying fine, we have no choice but to hold onto you.

Again, that is worst case scenario, but it would not be the first time we’ve seen this.

[spurs10]

If Kawhi really tries screwing SA over not trading him may happen. It’s unlikely, but if Kawhi doesn’t do his part to make things palatable I can see SA saying fine, we have no choice but to hold onto you.

Again, that is worst case scenario, but it would not be the first time we’ve seen this. Yes not until recently have I thought of this, but it could go down like this. Also while you might not get anything for him in this scenario, you will have about $40 million you can spend elsewhere.

Not having a clear understanding of how the CBA works we might not have be able to spend that much, but his salary would be off the books I'm thinking.

[TheGreatYacht]

Lol delusional PATFO fluffers.

If you won't get anything for Kawhi on a 1-yr deal, you won't get shit when he has half a season left. Dull as always. Drunkford better be a good lapdog and do as Kawhi pleases.

[spurs10]

If you won't get anything for Kawhi on a 1-yr deal, you won't get shit when he has half a season left.
If he doesn't sign an extension you won't get much and in that scenario there's is not much motivation for them to do anything.

[gambit1990]

is kawhi even suiting up next season ? ...

[DPG21920]

is kawhi even suiting up next season ? ...

No one knows yet; Kawhi and his hand picked team of doctors have given zero updates on if the last 8 months have led to any more clarity.

He’s been with his most recent NY doctor for 3 months, but he and his team have controlled their doctors/rehab for 8 months now.

[ducks]

is kawhi even suiting up next season ? ...

If you know pick the lottery tickets numbers for me

[DPG21920]

Look at it as a relationship thing vs a value thing. Kawhi healthy has immense value. A ton. But this is about leverage/relationship.

Both parties have leverage over each other to varying degrees:

1) Kawhi can hurt the Spurs by playing hard ball and telling teams that try to trade for him that he will sit out and/or will not re-sign. That really limits what the Spurs will get in return. That doesn’t mean an OKC like team won’t take a swing, but even that is reduced value compared to if he has a wide list of teams and plays good soldier to let SA work a good deal that fits both parties well.

2) Spurs can say to Kawhi, we could have offered 219M but you and your team messed up and if you continue to act like a jerk we will just hold you and force you to walk to a team in free agency which means going down to 140M contract from where you could have had 219M. SA trading Kawhi means he can get 180M so they have 40M in leverage there outside of the additional 40M SuperMax.

So if both play hard ball they can hurt each other but if they play somewhat nice they should be able to find a decent enough deal. Just depends on the relationship and how much money Kawhi is willing to cost himself.

[daslicer]

Have him play out the first 10 or 20 games to re-establish himself as an All-NBA talent. If he's back to his normal self then it puts pressure on teams like the Celtics,Sixers to offer more than just crumbs for him.

[YGWHI]

They may need Kawhi to play so he can establish his value by showing he’s healthy and still an all NBA first team talent. That’s if they don’t want discounted offers. That said, if he’s not traded by camp, a lot of his value goes down bc teams that trade for him outside LA will need time to convince him to stay.


Have him play out the first 10 or 20 games to re-establish himself as an All-NBA talent. If he's back to his normal self then it puts pressure on teams like the Celtics,Sixers to offer more than just crumbs for him.

Only if you think he wasnt injured this season. But if he was and can't establish him as a top player again..In this case, how much would lose the Spurs for not trading him in offseason?
No one team would give a shit for him after they realize he's not the same player.

His injury and prognosis -if it's chronic, if it's some type of career altering injury- was one of the reasons for refusing to give him the supermax deal, I doubt that playing him some games next season will increase his value

[daslicer]

Only if you think he wasnt injured this season. But if he was and can't establish him as a top player again..In this case, how much would lose the Spurs for not trading him in offseason?
No one team would give a shit for him after they realize he's not the same player.

His injury and prognosis -if it's chronic, if it's some type of career altering injury- was one of the reasons for refusing to give him the supermax deal, I doubt that playing him some games next season will increase his value

It's still worth taking the risk since the Spurs are only getting bread crumb offerings for him. No team is offering star talent for Kawhi. So if Kawhi ends up being washed up next year then the Spurs just lost out on getting good role players.

You have read my posts before so you know I believe the injury is bs that's why I'm willing to take the risk of him playing 10-20 games next year to increase his value.

[gambit1990]

if kawhi comes back close to where he was and doesn't have more health issues then he's winning mvp somewhere.

[YGWHI]

Look at it as a relationship thing vs a value thing. Kawhi healthy has immense value. A ton. But this is about leverage/relationship.

Both parties have leverage over each other to varying degrees:

1) Kawhi can hurt the Spurs by playing hard ball and telling teams that try to trade for him that he will sit out and/or will not re-sign. That really limits what the Spurs will get in return. That doesn’t mean an OKC like team won’t take a swing, but even that is reduced value compared to if he has a wide list of teams and plays good soldier to let SA work a good deal that fits both parties well.

2) Spurs can say to Kawhi, we could have offered 219M but you and your team messed up and if you continue to act like a jerk we will just hold you and force you to walk to a team in free agency which means going down to 140M contract from where you could have had 219M. SA trading Kawhi means he can get 180M so they have 40M in leverage there outside of the additional 40M SuperMax.

So if both play hard ball they can hurt each other but if they play somewhat nice they should be able to find a decent enough deal. Just depends on the relationship and how much money Kawhi is willing to cost himself.

In the first case the player gets not being traded a team he doesn't want.

What does the team get in the 2nd case? The player loses money but what gets the team after playing hard ball? Do the Spurs gain the money the player loses in some way?

IDK..Better to trade him in this next offseason than losing him for nothing.

[YGWHI]

It's still worth taking the risk since the Spurs are only getting bread crumb offerings for him. No team is offering star talent for Kawhi. So if Kawhi ends up being washed up next year then the Spurs just lost out on getting good role players.

You have read my posts before so you know I believe the injury is bs that's why I'm willing to take the risk of him playing 10-20 games next year to increase his value.

If true that the Sixers are willing to give those many picks for Kawhi that sounds way better than the Spurs would get for him if he's injured.

But you think he's healthy so you will take the risk. I don't share your perspective but I get your point.

[TheGreatYacht]

Have him play out the first 10 or 20 games to re-establish himself as an All-NBA talent. If he's back to his normal self then it puts pressure on teams like the Celtics,Sixers to offer more than just crumbs for him.
Celtics have absolutely ZERO pressure to trade for Kawhi with a healthy Irving and Hayward being back. You're also betting on Philly whiffing on Lebron or George.

If what you get in the offseason is "crumbs", then that is what you will get.

[DPG21920]

In the first case the player gets not being traded a team he doesn't want.

What does the team get in the 2nd case? The player loses money but what gets the team after playing hard ball? Do the Spurs gain the money the player loses in some way?

IDK..Better to trade him in this next offseason than losing him for nothing.

Sure, he gets not being traded to a team he doesn’t want; but the question how many teams is he willing to play for. If he tells Spurs it’s Lakers or bust, then SA might say they have nothing we want.

The team gets nothing but that is the leverage they have. There is a point where if Kawhi is limiting their choices and they don’t like the options that hurting Kawhi becomes the main goal vs allowing him to win for the sake of getting a “return” you don’t really care for. SA sets a tone with agents/players that if you screw us over and think that will work, you will pay dearly for that in terms of your money which usually gets people’s attention. I wouldn’t be mad either; you don’t negotiate with terriost basically. If you want to play that game, then fine, eat 80M guaranteed to go where you want to go.

It probably wont come to that, but if it’s toxic I can see it happening.

[DPG21920]

Only if you think he wasnt injured this season. But if he was and can't establish him as a top player again..In this case, how much would lose the Spurs for not trading him in offseason?
No one team would give a shit for him after they realize he's not the same player.

His injury and prognosis -if it's chronic, if it's some type of career altering injury- was one of the reasons for refusing to give him the supermax deal, I doubt that playing him some games next season will increase his value

If his value is low enough to the point where they have to do this, there is nothing more to lose. But even if SA thinks long-term that he won’t be the same player but he’s 90% after playing some teams will up their offers. He may end up 70% 3 years from now, but that won’t show up playing 20 games now.

You are also assuming the injury is the reason or only reason for not getting the SuperMax. I can see your perspective some if you believe that but I believe that is only part of the reason why he’s not likely to get the SM deal.

[daslicer]

Celtics have absolutely ZERO pressure to trade for Kawhi with a healthy Irving and Hayward being back. You're also betting on Philly whiffing on Lebron or George.

If what you get in the offseason is "crumbs", then that is what you will get.

Actually the Celtics would have pressure to trade for Kawhi if your scenario played out of the Sixers getting Lebron James. There is a rumor where the Sixers could get both Lebron and PG. I personally think PG is LA bound and won't go to the Sixers unless Lebron is also going there. Realistically Celtics need a superstar perimeter player to match up with the Sixers if they get Lebron. Tatum and Brown are not there yet at that level while Kawhi is if he's healthy. Anyways I'm willing to risk losing Kawhi for nothing if the offer is just crumbs.

[YGWHI]

The team gets nothing
Then I wouldn't call it an option when both sides lose.



SA sets a tone with agents/players that if you screw us over and think that will work, you will pay dearly for that in terms of your money which usually gets people’s attention. I wouldn’t be mad either; you don’t negotiate with terriost basically. If you want to play that game, then fine, eat 80M guaranteed to go where you want to go.
That would set the tone...Also, it would tell other players/agents that the Spurs' way is too hard and inflexible. Many talented FAs would want to find a more friendly franchise.

I laughed when other franchises couldn't keep their best players...I laughed when Jazz refused to give Harwayd the max in 2014..When OKC traded Harden. Now, other fans are laughing of the Spurs losing Kawhi...This works like that Jef fMcDonald's tweet "it's their turn"

[daslicer]

Then I wouldn't call it an option when both sides lose.



That would set the tone...Also, it would tell other players/agents that the Spurs' way is too hard and inflexible. Many talented FAs would want to find a more friendly franchise.

I laughed when other franchises couldn't keep their best players...I laughed when Jazz refused to give Harwayd the max in 2014..When OKC traded Harden. Now, other fans are laughing of the Spurs losing Kawhi...This works like that Jef fMcDonald's tweet "it's their turn"

Spurs have never attracted A list FA's outside of LMA. Spurs will continue to get the typical FA's that they have always gotten which is young unproven players or old vets who are pass their primes. You laughed when the Jazz refused to give Hayward the Max? Wow for me personally I always felt Hayward was overrated and not even worth building a team around. I thought when Hayward walked away from the Jazz last summer it was actually a positive for the Jazz since they never going anywhere with Hayward being their franchise player. So who else did you laugh at for losing their best players? I'm just curious. Honestly shocked that you give a shit about opposing fans laughing at the Spurs but then again you are still kid so that stuff will bother you. TBH from what I have seen on realgm and other forums are the majority of fans actually feel Kawhi is screwing over the Spurs. The only fans I see who are pro-Kawhi are Laker fans and Sixers fans and that's because they feel their teams will land him.

[DPG21920]

Then I wouldn't call it an option when both sides lose.



That would set the tone...Also, it would tell other players/agents that the Spurs' way is too hard and inflexible. Many talented FAs would want to find a more friendly franchise.

I laughed when other franchises couldn't keep their best players...I laughed when Jazz refused to give Harwayd the max in 2014..When OKC traded Harden. Now, other fans are laughing of the Spurs losing Kawhi...This works like that Jef fMcDonald's tweet "it's their turn"

Sure it sucks. But like it or not, it is an option; even if it’s unlikely. If Kawhi wants to be a jerk, he will lose too. I don’t personally think it goes that far, but if Kawhi thinks he can bully SA he’s wrong.

Also I explained the PR battle situation. That is not really a concern. Kawhi has already lost the PR battle. Agents and teams and players have done business with SA. The only agent burned here is an agent with zero clout or players other than Kawhi. So that is not a concern IMO.

[duncan2k5]

Kawhi doesnt want to leave, and is being traded...if he was healthy and purposefully sat out like the conspiracy theorists claim, this would only hurt him...additionally he could have simply asked out while playing like everyone else...tje guyvwas legit worried about his health...he will be a spur...dont be stupid

[YGWHI]

If his value is low enough to the point where they have to do this, there is nothing more to lose. But even if SA thinks long-term that he won’t be the same player but he’s 90% after playing some teams will up their offers. He may end up 70% 3 years from now, but that won’t show up playing 20 games now.
The Spurs aren't getting great offers because the last images GMs had of Kawhi on court are those 9 games in the season, he wasn't even close to the MVP candidate they watched a year ago.

If 9 games didn't make a difference, I doubt that 20 games will change it


You are also assuming the injury is the reason or only reason for not getting the SuperMax. I can see your perspective some if you believe that but I believe that is only part of the reason why he’s not likely to get the SM deal.
In my post I said "was one of the reasons". Granted, I think it was the biggest reason, money fixes any deteriorating relationship but can't improve an injury.

[YGWHI]

Also I explained the PR battle situation. That is not really a concern. Kawhi has already lost the PR battle. Agents and teams and players have done business with SA. The only agent burned here is an agent with zero clout or players other than Kawhi. So that is not a concern IMO.

This makes me wonder what top players have done bussiness with SA. LMA was the only one and had issues to stay after just one-two years.

Losing Kawhi, Pop isn't getting younger...Unlike you, I think it would be a big concern in the future.

[YGWHI]

Honestly shocked that you give a shit about opposing fans laughing at the Spurs.
Have to agree with you on this one.

TBH from what I have seen on realgm and other forums are the majority of fans actually feel Kawhi is screwing over the Spurs. The only fans I see who are pro-Kawhi are Laker fans and Sixers fans and that's because they feel their teams will land him.
Well, I didn't read other forums nor realgm. I'm just on Tw/IG/FB and watch some TV shows, listen sports' shows on radio...
I only can say that after Brian Windhorst saying LBJ would want to play with him and that NBPA article, I saw more fans willing to give Kawhi the benefit of doubt.

[K...]

Since kawhi helps himself out of both playing and taking any press age can't get the pr battle. What the Spurs wanted to alienate their best player? GTFO

Even the most pro kawhi explanation can't explain the lack of media exposure. It's fucking off-season, do an interview, his agent/Uncle is so shitty for allowing it to come to this.

[spurs10]

There is too much money on the line to not try to come to a reasonable deal.

[YGWHI]

What the Spurs wanted to alienate their best player? GTFO
Jabari Young said this three months ago.
960654302040723458

The Spurs knew it. They didn't want to do it but let it happened.

They trusted so much in things that worked before with other people instead of trying to adapt some part of their old school way to new generations.

[daslicer]

Have to agree with you on this one.

Well, I didn't read other forums nor realgm. I'm just on Tw/IG/FB and watch some TV shows, listen sports' shows on radio...
I only can say that after Brian Windhorst saying LBJ would want to play with him and that NBPA article, I saw more fans willing to give Kawhi the benefit of doubt.

TW-FB-IG is flooded with casual idiots and those same people tend to be bandwagon fans so of course it doesn't shock me they would be supporting Kawhi because they probably feel their team has a chance at him. Got to factor teams like the Lakers have the largest fanbase on those forums you mentioned and their voice is going to drown out the voices of other fans. :lol at Lebron stans supporting Kawhi only because they feel Kawhi can help Lebron pad his ring count. TV/Radio will be pro-Kawhi simply because they want Kawhi in a big market which gives them more stuff to hype up and talk about. It reminds me of how the media became pro-Rodman once he joined the bulls and crafted a bs narrative in which David Robinson was an overbearing religious nutcase that bullied Rodman who was actually a good guy at heart.

[DPG21920]

Kawhi has been blasted by a ton of former players on TV shows and there is a thread dedicated to twitter posts being very harsh on Kawhi.

[DaBears]

Kawhi has been blasted by a ton of former players on TV shows and there is a thread dedicated to twitter posts being very harsh on Kawhi.

I would take the word of former NBA players, before i take word of causal fans, reason being players know the games that are being played behind the scenes.. So if they see that something stinks, i'll tend to lean with their opinions .. Even if they're missing some parts of story, or in-depth knowledge of the situation.

[cd98]

Jabari Young said this three months ago.
960654302040723458

The Spurs knew it. They didn't want to do it but let it happened.

They trusted so much in things that worked before with other people instead of trying to adapt some part of their old school way to new generations.

Eh, well Kawhi also needs to grow up. We don't know everything, but if Kawhi there was not a legit reason to sit the whole season or if he gets offended because people want to know what is going on, including and especially his teammates, then let him go. You don't pay a guy the super max if he doesn't have the maturity to lead your team to a title. He's never appeared to be much of a leader, but if you are paid the super max, you can't just be a good scorer and defender. You have to be a leader. Being a franchise guy is more than being a good player on the court. You got to play injured...you have to support your teammates...you have to be all in for your franchise. If not, then you aren't worth it. We don't know how healthy he is, but if he is 100% healthy, then he's still showing he's lacking in other areas.

And while it's tough to replace a top 5 NBA player, it's not as hard as you think. If you have a front office that is competent at drafting and developing players, and the Spurs are that, then they'll find another stud player, even if it takes a few tries in the lottery. But destroying any salary cap to pay a guy that isn't a leader and is more worried about endorsements than winning is a recipe for a disaster.

I'm not saying Kawhi can't be a leader, but he hasn't shown it so far.

[K...]

We're dealing with a rich mans Royce white scenario. NBA didn't come hard to keep him in the NBA so I don't think they cry about kawhi too much. Now granted, kawhi was a much bigger player, but it's so rich that people be blasting pop and company for being out of touch, when it's kawhi who broke the rule book about diva behavior.

[Seventyniner]

Eh, well Kawhi also needs to grow up. We don't know everything, but if Kawhi there was not a legit reason to sit the whole season or if he gets offended because people want to know what is going on, including and especially his teammates, then let him go. You don't pay a guy the super max if he doesn't have the maturity to lead your team to a title. He's never appeared to be much of a leader, but if you are paid the super max, you can't just be a good scorer and defender. You have to be a leader. Being a franchise guy is more than being a good player on the court. You got to play injured...you have to support your teammates...you have to be all in for your franchise. If not, then you aren't worth it. We don't know how healthy he is, but if he is 100% healthy, then he's still showing he's lacking in other areas.

And while it's tough to replace a top 5 NBA player, it's not as hard as you think. If you have a front office that is competent at drafting and developing players, and the Spurs are that, then they'll find another stud player, even if it takes a few tries in the lottery. But destroying any salary cap to pay a guy that isn't a leader and is more worried about endorsements than winning is a recipe for a disaster.

I'm not saying Kawhi can't be a leader, but he hasn't shown it so far.

This. Kawhi expects the Spurs to give him everything they can, why shouldn't the Spurs expect the same from Kawhi?

[DPG21920]

I would take the word of former NBA players, before i take word of causal fans, reason being players know the games that are being played behind the scenes.. So if they see that something stinks, i'll tend to lean with their opinions .. Even if they're missing some parts of story, or in-depth knowledge of the situation.

I was not trying to say take fans words for things. I was making a point regarding the PR battle with all of this on how virtually all levels Kawhi’s team has lost that battle.

[YGWHI]

Eh, well Kawhi also needs to grow up. We don't know everything, but if Kawhi there was not a legit reason to sit the whole season or if he gets offended because people want to know what is going on, including and especially his teammates, then let him go. You don't pay a guy the super max if he doesn't have the maturity to lead your team to a title. He's never appeared to be much of a leader, but if you are paid the super max, you can't just be a good scorer and defender. You have to be a leader. Being a franchise guy is more than being a good player on the court. You got to play injured...you have to support your teammates...you have to be all in for your franchise. If not, then you aren't worth it. We don't know how healthy he is, but if he is 100% healthy, then he's still showing he's lacking in other areas.

And while it's tough to replace a top 5 NBA player, it's not as hard as you think. If you have a front office that is competent at drafting and developing players, and the Spurs are that, then they'll find another stud player, even if it takes a few tries in the lottery. But destroying any salary cap to pay a guy that isn't a leader and is more worried about endorsements than winning is a recipe for a disaster.

I'm not saying Kawhi can't be a leader, but he hasn't shown it so far.

1-I truly believe Kawhi had a legit reason to sit, he was injured.

2-Until the Spurs drafted Kyle, Kawhi was the younger player on the team for many years...I like this old article talking about how much he wanted to be a positive leader since 2016.

Esp last part "he quietly deferred during the early portion of his career to Duncan, Parker and Ginobili while waiting in the wings for his role to gradually increase."

http://www.espn.com/blog/san-antonio-spurs/post/_/id/1013/the-next-evolution-of-kawhi-leonards-game-leadership

It's hard to think this was his team last season with two HOFers still there...

The good thing is that thing started to change, Kawhi kept in contact with his younger teammates all season and finally players could see a mentor in him.
The bad thing is that Parker/Manu aren't part of this relationship and all team was in a weird place after the "meeting"...having to support the locker room old leaders or Kawhi. Gasol opted to pick Manu/Parker side, Brandon and Danny still supported Kawhi in public.

[pad300]

Look at it as a relationship thing vs a value thing. Kawhi healthy has immense value. A ton. But this is about leverage/relationship.

Both parties have leverage over each other to varying degrees:

1) Kawhi can hurt the Spurs by playing hard ball and telling teams that try to trade for him that he will sit out and/or will not re-sign. That really limits what the Spurs will get in return. That doesn’t mean an OKC like team won’t take a swing, but even that is reduced value compared to if he has a wide list of teams and plays good soldier to let SA work a good deal that fits both parties well.

2) Spurs can say to Kawhi, we could have offered 219M but you and your team messed up and if you continue to act like a jerk we will just hold you and force you to walk to a team in free agency which means going down to 140M contract from where you could have had 219M. SA trading Kawhi means he can get 180M so they have 40M in leverage there outside of the additional 40M SuperMax.

So if both play hard ball they can hurt each other but if they play somewhat nice they should be able to find a decent enough deal. Just depends on the relationship and how much money Kawhi is willing to cost himself.

Actually, if the relationship is REALLY gone bad, you are underestimating the Spurs leverage. If SAS doesn't get a good enough offer, and he continues to be "not medically cleared", they can wait for a while, and then sue him for breach of contract (ie pulling a medical holdout), and a) ask for 2017-2018 and 18-19's salary back, and b) damages for breach of contract. That locks him up in court to a point where I suspect he would be nearly unemployable in the NBA (due to the contractual/legal factors), especially if they ask for more damages for him deliberately destroying his trade value...

[duncan2k5]

Eh, well Kawhi also needs to grow up. We don't know everything, but if Kawhi there was not a legit reason to sit the whole season or if he gets offended because people want to know what is going on, including and especially his teammates, then let him go. You don't pay a guy the super max if he doesn't have the maturity to lead your team to a title. He's never appeared to be much of a leader, but if you are paid the super max, you can't just be a good scorer and defender. You have to be a leader. Being a franchise guy is more than being a good player on the court. You got to play injured...you have to support your teammates...you have to be all in for your franchise. If not, then you aren't worth it. We don't know how healthy he is, but if he is 100% healthy, then he's still showing he's lacking in other areas.

And while it's tough to replace a top 5 NBA player, it's not as hard as you think. If you have a front office that is competent at drafting and developing players, and the Spurs are that, then they'll find another stud player, even if it takes a few tries in the lottery. But destroying any salary cap to pay a guy that isn't a leader and is more worried about endorsements than winning is a recipe for a disaster.

I'm not saying Kawhi can't be a leader, but he hasn't shown it so far.

So this season erased everything he has done so far? How isn't he a leader from his mvp season till last year?

[duncan2k5]

Actually, if the relationship is REALLY gone bad, you are underestimating the Spurs leverage. If SAS doesn't get a good enough offer, and he continues to be "not medically cleared", they can wait for a while, and then sue him for breach of contract (ie pulling a medical holdout), and a) ask for 2017-2018 and 18-19's salary back, and b) damages for breach of contract. That locks him up in court to a point where I suspect he would be nearly unemployable in the NBA (due to the contractual/legal factors), especially if they ask for more damages for him deliberately destroying his trade value...

Very stupid take... Can't sue for a medical holdout in this case

[ducks]

Very stupid take... Can't sue for a medical holdout in this case

you have doctors on both sides who say he could or could not play

and both sides have big money
what side gets best lawer

[cd98]

1-I truly believe Kawhi had a legit reason to sit, he was injured.

2-Until the Spurs drafted Kyle, Kawhi was the younger player on the team for many years...I like this old article talking about how much he wanted to be a positive leader since 2016.

Esp last part "he quietly deferred during the early portion of his career to Duncan, Parker and Ginobili while waiting in the wings for his role to gradually increase."

http://www.espn.com/blog/san-antonio-spurs/post/_/id/1013/the-next-evolution-of-kawhi-leonards-game-leadership

It's hard to think this was his team last season with two HOFers still there...

The good thing is that thing started to change, Kawhi kept in contact with his younger teammates all season and finally players could see a mentor in him.
The bad thing is that Parker/Manu aren't part of this relationship and all team was in a weird place after the "meeting"...having to support the locker room old leaders or Kawhi. Gasol opted to pick Manu/Parker side, Brandon and Danny still supported Kawhi in public.

When the offense runs through you, you are the team leader. Spurs did everything they could to establish him as the leader since 2014. It doesn't seem like part of his personality, but if you get super maxed, there are responsibilities that come with getting paid like that.

I don't think the vets criticized him heavily. At most, there was Parker talking about his injury, but even that wasn't as harsh as people want to make it sound. And it's hard to fault Manu and Parker for feeling like Kawhi should play given: (1) they played injured many times in their career; (2) they are at the tail end of their careers and they knew how much Kawhi was needed for them to continue to be contenders; and (3) they felt duty bound to play and play their best and win for the veterans on their teams.

That said, I think a lot of the turmoil could have been prevented with them being more open about what is going on instead of acting weird by keeping silent and running to NY to rehab and allowing rumors about wanting to go to LA permeate the media. I've seen people insinuate that a player wants to go somewhere and then have that player come out and call BS on the rumor. Kawhi never did that. So maybe it's true. I guess we'll see.

[superbigtime]

Spurs treated him respectfully the entire season. PATFO and players alike.

[dbestpro]

The league being what it is, if Kawhi plays this out to leaving the Spurs, I would not doubt if he never sees another favorable call. This is not because of the fans but rather the litany of former and present players who feel he is out of line. No one will come to his defense.

[cd98]

So this season erased everything he has done so far? How isn't he a leader from his mvp season till last year?

When he went off the reservation this year, he didn't act like a leader. And before you pay him 35% of the salary cap, you better make sure he's 100% invested in being a leader because his salary will tie up your ability to improve the roster in a way that Patty Mills' or Pau Gasol's or Tony Parker's salaries do not. If all the chatter is coming from his camp about wanting to be in a big market or wanting practices to change, etc., that's not a positive sign that you should pay him $$$$. I don't see him as the Melo (get a big contract and then whine your way to where you really want to play), but I never though last season would go the way it did when I dropped $$$$ to see a bunch of home games.

[exstatic]

1-I truly believe Kawhi had a legit reason to sit, he was injured.

2-Until the Spurs drafted Kyle, Kawhi was the younger player on the team for many years...I like this old article talking about how much he wanted to be a positive leader since 2016.

Esp last part "he quietly deferred during the early portion of his career to Duncan, Parker and Ginobili while waiting in the wings for his role to gradually increase."

http://www.espn.com/blog/san-antonio-spurs/post/_/id/1013/the-next-evolution-of-kawhi-leonards-game-leadership

It's hard to think this was his team last season with two HOFers still there...

The good thing is that thing started to change, Kawhi kept in contact with his younger teammates all season and finally players could see a mentor in him.
The bad thing is that Parker/Manu aren't part of this relationship and all team was in a weird place after the "meeting"...having to support the locker room old leaders or Kawhi. Gasol opted to pick Manu/Parker side, Brandon and Danny still supported Kawhi in public.

It's been his team to lead since Duncan walked out the door. If he grabbed the reins and led, neither Manu or Tony would have stood in the way. He didn't do that, remaining the silent sphinx.

[pad300]

Very stupid take... Can't sue for a medical holdout in this case

Why not? Do you have some legal precedent? As I understand the law, they have been humoring him so far because he is, of course, a star. As they are paying the bills, the Spurs doctors are the ones who count... If he was 7th man, they might not be putting up with this behaviour. If him and his uncle are still trying to bend them over a table next year (ie he's still "not medically cleared"), what reason do they have to continue to humor him?

[YGWHI]

If he grabbed the reins and led, neither Manu or Tony would have stood in the way.
We don't know that, we don't know how Spurs' locker room works.

[YGWHI]

(1) they played injured many times in their career;
And missed many games in their careers due injuries, too. But it seems like we don't remember that.


I've seen people insinuate that a player wants to go somewhere and then have that player come out and call BS on the rumor. Kawhi never did that. So maybe it's true. I guess we'll see.
In March, he told media he was working to return and admitted he wanted to finish his career as Spur. Another thing that people don't remember.

[BSfromTX]

Kawhi can only be defended so much. He needs to man up and clear the air. If he doesn’t, you can bet Spurs will look like the victim once the dust settles.

[cd98]

And missed many games in their careers due injuries, too. But it seems like we don't remember that.


In March, he told media he was working to return and admitted he wanted to finish his career as Spur. Another thing that people don't remember.

We all know that players miss games due to injuries. But I also remember Ginobili playing with a broken arm. Tim struggled through the 2005 season with plantar fasciitis and 2000 he wanted to play versus the Suns and Pop wouldn't let him. Parker has had injuries, but he's bounced back quickly from them, including last season's injury. Kawhi doesn't really have the same history and him not giving a go during the playoffs is a red flag to others that did. The fact that Kawhi was cleared to play is a big deal.

And while Kawhi did say that he wanted to remain a Spur, his actions have been very different. I've heard other players completely squash rumors. It's not like Kawhi said "I hear there are rumors of me wanting to go to L.A. to get better endorsements. That's nonsense. I've never said that and it's my goal to stay with the Spurs for life. Any report out there that says I'm demanding a trade or even asking to be traded is false."

But he doesn't say that. He makes a vanilla statement about wanting to stay with the Spurs and then he ditches the team to be in NY so none of his teammates could interact with him. And while I understand your desire to defend him, the media at large is noting his behavior and claiming that it looks like he wants out.

[Leetonidas]

And missed many games in their careers due injuries, too. But it seems like we don't remember that.


In March, he told media he was working to return and admitted he wanted to finish his career as Spur. Another thing that people don't remember.

Pssssh.....someone asked if he wanted to retire a Spur and he said something like "yeah sure." he never came out and said "I want to finish my career with the spurs."

[DejuanorwhatDude]

And missed many games in their careers due injuries, too. But it seems like we don't remember that.


In March, he told media he was working to return and admitted he wanted to finish his career as Spur. Another thing that people don't remember.

No people remember it. They just dont believe it because he conciously stayed away from the team for months, even after his head coach's wife died(the head coach who drafted him, took him to the Finals multiple times).

I can't think of a single professional player across any sport who has acted like this.

He either wants to stay or doesnt. If he wants to leave, then everything he's done since March makes sense. If he does want to stay, then he's an injury prone fucking weirdo who I personally don't want being the face of the Spurs.

[YGWHI]

The fact that Kawhi was cleared to play is a big deal.
He was cleared to play while he felt his quad wasn't right. And other doctors found calcifications on his leg that Spurs' doctors didn't. I wouldn't say it's the same case that other injured players.


I've heard other players completely squash rumors. It's not like Kawhi said "I hear there are rumors of me wanting to go to L.A. to get better endorsements. That's nonsense. I've never said that and it's my goal to stay with the Spurs for life. Any report out there that says I'm demanding a trade or even asking to be traded is false."
Do you want Kawhi to say these lines? I never heard him putting those many words together...He's not that type of guy.

This is part of that tweet about "alienate" him. Media guys asked if he wanted to stay in SA, he said, yes.

If that's not enough for you, it's not his fault. He has always been the same guy.


And while I understand your desire to defend him, the media at large is noting his behavior and claiming that it looks like he wants out.
If we think that Jabari Young has access to Kawhi, he always said the player wanted to stay and sign a super-max deal with SA. I believe the same.

[YGWHI]

If he does want to stay, then he's an injury prone fucking weirdo who I personally don't want being the face of the Spurs.
Unlike you, I'd love to have him playing for the Spurs again. Without him, this team can be back to being competetive with the right pieces, but won't be a contender again without him.