Clayton from ESPN! [Archive] - SpursTalk.com Forums

redskinfan

10-21-2005, 09:21 AM

got this from a saintsreport.com

Forget the Alamo: Tom Benson is handling the New Orleans situation all wrong. By firing key personnel who pushed to play games in Louisiana, he has completely alienated and scared officials in New Orleans into thinking that he will never bring the team back to the Superdome. Here's the problem: Benson has absolutely no support from commissioner Paul Tagliabue and the NFL about moving the team to San Antonio. The league considered the market too small and the stadium not good enough. Sure, it's an interim fix in San Antonio, but a full-time move to San Antonio will never be voted in by the NFL. The Saints owner better get some better advisors in the situation.

For a link to this article, click here: Clayton's Quick Hits

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Big Pimp_21

10-21-2005, 10:56 AM

dknights411

10-21-2005, 11:12 AM

Tags ha a prejudice on non-NFL markets NOT named Los Angeles.

blaze89

10-21-2005, 01:29 PM

I want Tagliabue to tell someone how LA Memorial Collisium or The Superdome are any better than The Alamodome. LA has proven too many times that they can't keep an NFL team. NO should get an NFL team back in expansion later...once they rebuild the city. They can even keep the logo and the name like the Browns did. Tags is an idiot who just has some sort of prejudice against San Antonio.

Los Angeles can have a renovated or a new stadium built. San Antonio can probably renovate the Alamodome but won't build a new one.

The Raiders and Rams left cause of bad stadiums and can't get a team cause of politics. The same group that built the Staples Center wanted to build a football stadium in Downtown Los Angeles using the funding method they used to build the Staple Center. However, folks at the Rose Bowl and the Memorial Coliseum told their elected leaders to they didn't want it for fear of losing UCLA and USC as tenants. The NFL wanted Los Angeles to have a team for over ten years and even gave them an expansion team but potential ownership groups were fighting each other and couldn't get a stadium plan.

I think fan support will be Los Angeles, although it is Los Angeles - we all know of their reputation but as another poster stated earlier, if Los Angeles builds their state-of-the-art stadium, the NFL will move to L.A. faster than Speedy Gonzalez.

I don't see this as an anti-San Antonio but more of anti-small market and let's be honest, we are a small market, we are growing but we are still a small market. Considering that all NFL gets a equal piece of the NFL pie from television, they will get more from Los Angeles than from San Antonio, Memphis, Birmingham or Orlando.

Vashner

10-21-2005, 01:59 PM

LA already failed with what 2 teams?

Screw them..
We are not a small market .. that's hogwash...

Wtf did all you anti San Antonio people crawl out from? Go back under the slimey rock's you crawled out from..

WTF people this is our chance to get a team so stfu and get behind the effort or get lost....

Marcus Bryant

10-21-2005, 02:01 PM

Yes, the league does not want a franchise in SA over LA. But is the league the primary decisionmaker here?

Horry For 3!

10-21-2005, 02:05 PM

j-6

10-21-2005, 02:14 PM

Yes, the league does not want a franchise in SA over LA. But is the league the primary decisionmaker here?

The answer to your question is somewhere between a no and a maybe.

There's something screwy going on with all this. Why appoint a committee if there isn't? The only thing I can think of is that some of the other small-market owners are bending Tagliabue's ear regarding the shared revenue from TV money, ticket sales, sponsorship deals, and licensing contracts.

Either that or Tags feels some moral obligation to investigate the uncouth romance between Mayor McCheese and Tommy Boy while the entire state of Louisiana is calling for their heads.

Marcus Bryant

10-21-2005, 02:26 PM

The answer to your question is somewhere between a no and a maybe.

There's something screwy going on with all this. Why appoint a committee if there isn't? The only thing I can think of is that some of the other small-market owners are bending Tagliabue's ear regarding the shared revenue from TV money, ticket sales, sponsorship deals, and licensing contracts.

Maybe he needs to get a taste of the feeling among the owners for Benson leaving NO and relocating to SA. Those topics are obviously connected, but each is certainly significant enough to be weighed individually. What do owners think the fallout from leaving a city due to the economic impact of a natural disaster is going to be? On a franchise in San Antonio, does that make sense? Is there a way to force Benson to LA? If the league wants to try to block a move to SA, what support is there among the owners?

The NO advisory committee is comprised of 8 owners. If those 8 are in unanimous agreement that the Saints should not leave NO, that SA is not a desirable location and that they would all vote to block a relocation of the Saints to SA, then perhaps Tagliabue goes over Benson hard.

Either that or Tags feels some moral obligation to investigate the uncouth romance between Mayor McCheese and Tommy Boy while the entire state of Louisiana is calling for their heads.

Yeah, could be CYA in effect for the league. As in, we investigated the situation and found that we don't have the legal standing to force Benson to stay in NO. There is also the possibility that the committee's role will be to conduct a post-mordem on the situation with NOLA after the Saints leave. As in, what kind of bones does the league throw the city's way (expansion, Super Bowls, etc...)

Nobody knows what Benson is thinking but if he was at least entertaining the notion of going back, would he not be handling things a little differently? I mean, it looks like he is ready to cut the cord. Saints fans and Nagin seem to think so. Nagin seems a bit hot tempered (who wouldn't be?) but to already be dumping on Benson and calling for an expansion team seems to be as though NO is resigned to life after Benson.

j-6

10-21-2005, 02:50 PM

The NO advisory committee is comprised of 8 owners. If those 8 are in unanimous agreement that the Saints should not leave NO, that SA is not a desirable location and that they would all vote to block a relocation of the Saints to SA, then perhaps Tagliabue goes over Benson hard.

One other thing about that committee. Here is their franchises rank in value among the NFL. Remember too, the Arizona Cardinals are ranked 32th, or last, in value in the NFL, and 33rd overall in the four major US sports leagues.

Robert Kraft (New England), 4
Jeff Lurie (Philadelphia), 5
Pat Bowlen (Denver), 6
Mike McCaskey (Chicago), 8
Jerry Richardson (Carolina), 12
Dan Rooney (Pittsburgh), 16
Lamar Hunt (Kansas City), 18
Wayne Weaver (Jacksonville), 21

This isn't exactly a group of the have-not's here.

Marcus Bryant

10-21-2005, 03:18 PM

One other thing about that committee. Here is their franchises rank in value among the NFL. Remember too, the Arizona Cardinals are ranked 32th, or last, in value in the NFL, and 33rd overall in the four major US sports leagues.

Robert Kraft (New England), 4
Jeff Lurie (Philadelphia), 5
Pat Bowlen (Denver), 6
Mike McCaskey (Chicago), 8
Jerry Richardson (Carolina), 12
Dan Rooney (Pittsburgh), 16
Lamar Hunt (Kansas City), 18
Wayne Weaver (Jacksonville), 21

This isn't exactly a group of the have-not's here.

That is interesting. Owners with a greater stake than most, some owners who are 'founding families' or pillars of the league, and no Jerry Jones. You could read a lot into this, as Tagliabue wants a group of owners with some clout in the league so whatever decision is arrived at is authoritative. Also, that you have a group of owners with more at stake than the average owner. You also have some longtime owners in that group, those with not only a financial interest but perhaps a concern about the league's image and what not in dealing with New Orleans post-Katrina.

That definitely looks like the NFL establishment there (who among the old guard is left out, the Giants' owner?). No Jerry Jones or Bob McNair. No Bud Adams. No Art Modell. No Al Davis. No Georgia Fronteria (sp?).

j-6

10-21-2005, 03:28 PM

That is interesting. Owners with a greater stake than most, some owners who are 'founding families' or pillars of the league, and no Jerry Jones. You could read a lot into this, as Tagliabue wants a group of owners with some clout in the league so whatever decision is arrived at is authoritative. Also, that you have a group of owners with more at stake than the average owner. You also have some longtime owners in that group, those with not only a financial interest but perhaps a concern about the league's image and what not in dealing with New Orleans post-Katrina.

That definitely looks like the NFL establishment there (who among the old guard is left out, the Giants' owner?). No Jerry Jones or Bob McNair.

NFL politicking at its finest. Lamar Hunt is as close to an elder statesman as the NFL ownership has anymore, with Art Rooney's death. And it's definitely geared toward an absolute decision, because trusting this particular group of men with a process and then going against its decision would be a foolhardy exercise.

http://espn.go.com/sportsbusiness/s/forbes.html

This is a list of the franchise value rankings, through 9/29. Very interesting to see Dallas is #2 and Houston at #3. I wonder how many owners Bob and Jerry can convince that there's no need for a third team in Texas while watching their teams skyrocket toward worth of a billion dollars.

Marcus Bryant

10-21-2005, 03:39 PM

NFL politicking at its finest. Lamar Hunt is as close to an elder statesman as the NFL ownership has anymore, with Art Rooney's death. And it's definitely geared toward an absolute decision, because trusting this particular group of men with a process and then going against its decision would be a foolhardy exercise.

http://espn.go.com/sportsbusiness/s/forbes.html

This is a list of the franchise value rankings, through 9/29. Very interesting to see Dallas is #2 and Houston at #3. I wonder how many owners Bob and Jerry can convince that there's no need for a third team in Texas while watching their teams skyrocket toward worth of a billion dollars.

True. Depends on how much of that Cowboys' valuation is tied to Central and South Texas. The Texans have made no inroads in SA as far as I can ascertain. Also, it's incredible that such a shitty team could be worth so much, but such is pro sport.

You know, it is interesting that Benson hosted the Austin mayor at the Falcons game. Perhaps Benson wants to make the case for a Central Texas market.

MannyIsGod

10-21-2005, 03:48 PM

I think the value of those franchises has more to do with the new stadiums they are playing in as opposed to any fan base here in South Texas. In fact, I'd wager San Antonio has very little to do with the value of either.

j-6

10-21-2005, 03:52 PM

True. Depends on how much of that Cowboys' valuation is tied to Central and South Texas. The Texans have made no inroads in SA as far as I can ascertain. Also, it's incredible that such a shitty team could be worth so much, but such is pro sport.

You know, it is interesting that Benson hosted the Austin mayor at the Falcons game. Perhaps Benson wants to make the case for a Central Texas market.

Metro Austin's 1.5+ million people is only like 200K less than SA and still more than the 1.3M NOLA claims. Not to mention that the median household income is over $10,000 higher than San Antonio's, and that Memorial Stadium already has 66 luxury suites.

samikeyp

10-21-2005, 03:56 PM

No Jerry Jones or Bob McNair.

Two guys who would torpedo any efforts to get a team here.

Marcus Bryant

10-21-2005, 03:57 PM

Metro Austin's 1.5+ million people is only like 200K less than SA and still more than the 1.3M NOLA claims. Not to mention that the median household income is over $10,000 higher than San Antonio's, and that Memorial Stadium already has 66 luxury suites.

Yep. Austin + SA would be pretty compelling. That's certainly not a small NFL market. You couldn't name it as a San Antonio team and certainly none of that New York-New Jersey hyphenated USFL or whatever shit. The team would probably have to be called something generic, like the "Texas Tornados" or whatever.

Of course, then you'd have a team named the Houston Texans and another one named the Texas whatevers. Cueing Tim Duncan to step in and tell us what that really sounds like.

TheWriter

10-21-2005, 04:01 PM

Metro Austin's 1.5+ million people is only like 200K less than SA

Try 1.4 versus 1.9

Marcus Bryant

10-21-2005, 04:02 PM

Try 1.4 versus 1.9

Include Round Rock & Georgetown.

TheWriter

10-21-2005, 04:03 PM

Include Round Rock & Georgetown.

I did.

Those are MSA numbers.

j-6

10-21-2005, 04:05 PM

Try 1.4 versus 1.9

Do you really think I wouldn't look up stats with an annoying little twat like you trolling around?

1,739,695 - San Antonio

1,503,128 - Austin

http://www.world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=1129928570&men=gcis&lng=en&gln=xx&dat=32&geo=-223&srt=npan&col=aohdq&va=&pt=a

TheWriter

10-21-2005, 04:08 PM

Do you really think I wouldn't look up stats with an annoying little twat like you trolling around?

1,739,695 - San Antonio

1,503,128 - Austin

http://www.world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=1129928570&men=gcis&lng=en&gln=xx&dat=32&geo=-223&srt=npan&col=aohdq&va=&pt=a

Good job, now here are the real numbers as of July 2004 and provided by the US Census:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73141

TheWriter

10-21-2005, 04:10 PM

Also, scroll down a bit and you'll get the combined consolidated and nonconsolidated metro numbers.

TheWriter

10-21-2005, 04:14 PM

As well, the San Antonio civilian labor force as of 2005 is 907,000.

j-6

10-21-2005, 04:14 PM

Good job, now here are the real numbers as of July 2004 and provided by the US Census:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73141&highlight=antonio+metro+population

Those are 2004 estimates off of a message board. I used 2005 estimates from a comprehensive worldwide project containing every national census listing available, including the US census from http://www.census.gov.

Skyscraperpage.com? What the fuck is that, anyway?

Marcus Bryant

10-21-2005, 04:17 PM

Leave it Buddy Holly to get the thread off topic.

Anyways, the point remains that Austin + SA is a pretty damn attractive NFL market.

TheWriter

10-21-2005, 04:19 PM

Those are 2004 estimates off of a message board. I used 2005 estimates from a comprehensive worldwide project containing every national census listing available, including the US census from http://www.census.gov.

Skyscraperpage.com? What the fuck is that, anyway?

Do you not know how to read?

The numbers you posted are a calculation! From the growth percentage during the 1990-2000.

What I posted are statistics from the US Census.

Skyscraperpage.com is website.

combined consolidated and non-consolidated metros -- i.e. the true* picture.

1 New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT-PA 21858830
2 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA 17516110
3 Chicago-Naperville-Michigan City, IL-IN-WI 9608458
4 Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, DC-MD-VA-WV 7986615
5 San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland, CA 7159693
6 Philadelphia-Camden-Vineland, PA-NJ-DE-MD 5951797
7 Dallas-Fort Worth, TX 5899336
8 Boston-Worcester-Manchester, MA-NH 5809111
9 Detroit-Warren-Flint, MI 5428855
10 Miami-Fort Lauderdale-Miami Beach, FL 5361723
11 Houston-Baytown-Huntsville, TX 5280752
12 Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Gainesville, GA 5034362
13 Seattle-Tacoma-Olympia, WA 3763569
14 Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ 3715360
15 Minneapolis-St. Paul-St. Cloud, MN-WI 3437464
16 Cleveland-Akron-Elyria, OH 2942303
17 San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA 2931714
18 St. Louis-St. Charles-Farmington, MO-IL 2824778
19 Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL 2587967
20 Denver-Aurora-Boulder, CO 2566162
21 Pittsburgh-New Castle, PA 2494949
22 Sacramento--Arden-Arcade--Truckee, CA-NV 2159756
23 Cincinnati-Middletown-Wilmington, OH-KY-IN 2100501
24 Charlotte-Gastonia-Salisbury, NC-SC 2067810
25 Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton, OR-WA 2064336
26 Kansas City-Overland Park-Kansas City, MO-KS 1992836
27 Indianapolis-Anderson-Columbus, IN 1939349
28 Orlando-The Villages, FL 1922412
29 Columbus-Marion-Chillicothe, OH 1920601
30 San Antonio, TX 1854050
31 Milwaukee-Racine-Waukesha, WI 1709926
32 Las Vegas-Paradise-Pahrump, NV 1688385
33 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC 1644250
34 Providence-New Bedford-Fall River, RI-MA 1628808
35 Salt Lake City-Ogden-Clearfield, UT 1541091
36 Nashville-Davidson--Murfreesboro--Columbia, TN 1470571
37 Raleigh-Durham-Cary, NC 1467434
38 Austin-Round Rock, TX 1412271
39 New Orleans-Metairie-Bogalusa, LA 1363750
40 Greensboro--Winston-Salem--High Point, NC 1335217
41 Louisville-Elizabethtown-Scottsburg, KY-IN 1334002
42 Grand Rapids-Wyoming-Holland, MI 1306768
43 Hartford-West Hartford-Willimantic, CT 1298907
44 Memphis, TN-MS-AR 1250293
45 Buffalo-Niagara-Cattaraugus, NY 1237557
46 Jacksonville, FL 1225381
47 Oklahoma City-Shawnee, OK 1211438
48 Louisville, KY-IN 1200847
49 Birmingham-Hoover-Cullman, AL 1161382
50 Richmond, VA 1154317
51 Albany-Schenectady-Amsterdam, NY 1141637
52 Rochester-Batavia-Seneca Falls, NY 1136263
53 Dayton-Springfield-Greenville, OH 1081164
54 Fresno-Madera, CA 1005723

TheWriter

10-21-2005, 04:20 PM

Leave it Buddy Holly to get the thread off topic.

I did? Who was the first to a link? Who was the first to insult.

That's right... not me.

Marcus Bryant

10-21-2005, 04:28 PM

TheWriter

10-21-2005, 04:33 PM

Oh man, I don't give a shit what you got from your city manager wannabe circle jerk forum. The point is that Austin + SA would be a great market for the NFL. Whether you like it or not, Austin metro has a pretty damn solid corporate base and a sizable affluent and football fan base.

If you want to compare SA v Austin, start a thread in that forum.

I'm not comparing any place or anyone, just stating the facts (population numbers) in this thread. Which seems to have gotten your panties in a bunch.

j-6

10-21-2005, 04:45 PM

So let's see. Austin's 1.5 and SA's 1.7 add up to 3.2M, or the equivalent of Minneapolis-St. Paul. Which is easily into the lower half of the top-20, right? The problem, which has been written about a hell of a lot in here, is that they're seventy miles apart. Which is easier, getting either people from SA to Austin, Austin to SA, or making people from each drive halfway?

I don't think this will work, especially since I don't even think metro LA is 70 miles from tip to tip on I-5. And inviting Austin in as a partner is one thing, one which I think is a much better idea than using the city as an afterthought and a way to get statwhores off and sell extra tickets. There has to be some sort of joint effort, not McCheese taking the ball and Wynn tagging along.

TheWriter

10-21-2005, 04:45 PM

So let's see. Austin's 1.5 and SA's 1.7 add up to 3.2M,

God you're a brainless idiot. :lol :lol :lol

Obstructed_View

10-21-2005, 04:52 PM

God you're a brainless idiot. :lol :lol :lol
I guess there's a reason you aren't called "TheMathematician"

TheWriter

10-21-2005, 04:53 PM

I guess there's a reason you aren't called "TheMathematician"

Because my hobby isn't math?

Oh, you're being sarcastic not literal... dumb me. :pctoss

Extra Stout

10-21-2005, 04:53 PM

God you're a brainless idiot. :lol :lol :lolIf he were to use your numbers instead, his point would remain the same.

But of course you don't care about his point. You care that everybody believe that San Antonio is The Most Superest Bestest Place Ever Featuring Pretty Pictures of Buildings And Other Pictures You Took of Your TV Screen.

TheWriter

10-21-2005, 04:59 PM

If he were to use your numbers instead, his point would remain the same.

But of course you don't care about his point. You care that everybody believe that San Antonio is The Most Superest Bestest Place Ever Featuring Pretty Pictures of Buildings And Other Pictures You Took of Your TV Screen.

Nope. The point is sound. The numbers aren't. All I'm doing is giving him the correct numbers.

Never said his point was incorrect. I agree with it.

j-6

10-21-2005, 06:48 PM

So here's the dilemma. We have somewhere between 3.2 and 3.3 million people, roughly divided in half by seventy miles of interstate. We all know Texans don't mind driving a decent ways to go somewhere, and we also know that Austin can't be a stepchild for this to work properly. And we know both cities love football more than anything than cheap beer and political scandals.

We also know that the commish wants the team in a connected metropolis six times larger and that Los Angeles has at least one stadium proposal in the pipeline.

San Antonio, of course, has the Alamodome, a twelve year old facility built for the NFL and outdated before a team ever played there.

So, what's the answer? A refurbished Alamodome that will become obsolete as soon as the paint dries in the new luxury boxes? Getting Texas State to pitch in and dropping a new facility in San Marcos? You don't rename a state school like the former SWT something like that if they don't want to go Division One in football, right? Putting the team in DKR-Memorial until someone comes up with a better idea?

samikeyp

10-21-2005, 07:28 PM

Putting the team in DKR-Memorial until someone comes up with a better idea?

That would work and there is precedent. Carolina played two years at Clemson before their stadium was ready.

TheWriter

10-21-2005, 08:20 PM

MannyIsGod

10-21-2005, 08:52 PM

Do you really think I wouldn't look up stats with an annoying little twat like you trolling around?

1,739,695 - San Antonio

1,503,128 - Austin

http://www.world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=1129928570&men=gcis&lng=en&gln=xx&dat=32&geo=-223&srt=npan&col=aohdq&va=&pt=a
Oh shit, maybe its the wine I've had tonight but you just made me laugh my ass off man. Nice!

j-6

10-21-2005, 08:59 PM

The Alamodome works. Many many people ahve said it already. That the Dome now is good enough. Of course you have to add the luxury seats.

No way is there going to a stadium built in New Braunfels or really anywhere to be honest.

As of now, Hardberger is saying the Alamodome will do for the foreseeable future.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

And if in the future the Saints need s new stadium, most likely it'll be built in the San Antonio area.

What a load of shit. Of course the mayor said that he thinks it's good enough. He's trying to lure a team in. And just because it fits you and Vashner's stadium needs doesn't mean that the NF'ingL thinks so.

Benson has been crying for a new stadium for years, and the Superdome is (well, was) far superior than the Alamodome. Look it up on your "public facilities of the United States" message board. Just because New Orleans has the Quarter doesn't mean that they automatically qualified to host the Super Bowl nine times. The facility had to be top-notch. And apparently that wasn't good enough for Benson. And now the same town who underwhelmingly voted for an arena for the NBA champs six years ago is going to get asked to bend over for Tommy Boy and the underachieving Saints.

Have you ever been to a real NFL stadium? Even that dump in Irving qualifies. It'll take a lot of renovation to the Dome to bring it to NFL standards...and by the time that's completed, New Orleans will have the Superdome completely rebuilt and ready to go and Los Angeles' renovation of the Coliseum will be either well underway or complete.

This is the problem with the whole situation. The Alamodome won't be good enough and by the time it is made adequate, it won't be anymore. For forms sake, a renovated white elephant for second rate college bowls and high school games. And there will be no national sympathy for San Antonio due to the actions of McCheese and company.

It's not like San Antonio spends top dollar on anything. And unfortunately, that's what the NFL and Benson are going to want.

Johnny_Blaze_47

10-21-2005, 09:51 PM

Getting Texas State to pitch in and dropping a new facility in San Marcos? You don't rename a state school like the former SWT something like that if they don't want to go Division One in football, right?

I'll step in here...

You're right. The only problem is that there is almost no way for State to go D1-A in the immediate future.

We don't have the attendance numbers (although our run right now is helping out).

Our athletics department couldn't promote itself out of a paper bag if it tried. Why haven't they tried to reach out to San Antonio or even little New Braunfels?

If you go to the Target or Wal-Mart here, there is NO State presence whatsoever.

There is more UT and A&M gear in those stores than they sell at athletic events.

Granted, the dept. just hired a new Marketing Director and a slew of e-mails from a rabid base just got us replica jerseys that don't look like ass (at least they tell us that they're coming).

State needs a lot more to become D1-A. We're (The Star) looking at some of the other schools to recently make the jump and what would be necessary for a series to be published (hopefully) before the end of the year.

TheWriter

10-21-2005, 10:46 PM

What a load of shit. Of course the mayor said that he thinks it's good enough. He's trying to lure a team in. And just because it fits you and Vashner's stadium needs doesn't mean that the NF'ingL thinks so.

It's not just the Mayor.

JT the Brick, Brian Cox have also said the Alamodome is a great place to play football. Just put the lux. suites in and that's all it needs.

Hell, JT said the press box was one of the best he's ever been in to watch a game. He also said even without any upgrades the place would be a hellava place to play in.

Benson has been crying for a new stadium for years, and the Superdome is (well, was) far superior than the Alamodome.

How so?

I have heard people say they were in awe of how much better it was compared to the superdome.

samikeyp

10-21-2005, 10:55 PM

Oh shit...I agree with Bryan Cox? Oy.... :)

j-6

10-21-2005, 11:29 PM

It's not just the Mayor.

JT the Brick, Brian Cox have also said the Alamodome is a great place to play football. Just put the lux. suites in and that's all it needs.

Hell, JT said the press box was one of the best he's ever been in to watch a game. He also said even without any upgrades the place would be a hellava place to play in.

How so?

I have heard people say they were in awe of how much better it was compared to the superdome.

Before I start, the Saints-Falcons game was the best NFL game I've ever been to, but it was the action and the drama onfield that did it for me, not the Alamodome experience. Seeing the UT band at halftime was an unexpected bonus.

If you think the NFL places stock in the opinions of you, me, or two sports radio guys, you are sorely mistaken. I know I asked this earlier, but have you ever been to a NFL stadium? Or the Superdome for any event? The Alamodome is what it is: a bare-bones facility about a decade behind the times. The Superdome seats 7,000 more people. It's got to be close to double the total size of the Alamodome adding in all the exhibit space. It's been renovated over and over due to Final Fours and Super Bowls over the years.

Benson isn't going to be happy with the Alamodome for any extended period of time, no matter what Cox thinks of the luxury box issue or JT the Brick's press box review. He wants top-of-the-line and SA doesn't have that available.

I'm still trying to figure Benson's infatuation with San Antonio out. Sure, I remember when the Saints came to SA when Ivan was threatening, so maybe that was the existing evac plan. Plenty of sports owners don't live where the team is based out of. There's more money and better facilities in other, larger markets. My gut feeling is that the city and the local government is being played.

I'm curious to see comparisons and opinions of people favoring the Alamodome over the Superdome for more than the Saints not getting booed. I haven't seen any that I recall, for what that's worth. If you come across some, post a link, will ya? Thanks.

TheWriter

10-22-2005, 03:44 AM

I'm still trying to figure Benson's infatuation with San Antonio out.

Probably has to do with his "falling in love with the city" when he started out working in a car dealership and then owning his own dealerships and making millions.

His granddaughter lives here and got married here. Hell, Tom Benson remarried last year (or the year before) in San Antonio as well.

His company Loan Star Bank is HQ'd in San Antonio.

My gut feeling is that the city and the local government is being played.

My gut feeling is Phil Hardberger knows what he's doing. Phil ain't no dumbass. He doesn't just hand out free money.

TheWriter

10-22-2005, 03:54 AM

Here's a an unbiased prespective of the Alamodome compared to the Superdome:

http://saintsreport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178033

my2sons

10-22-2005, 10:58 AM

as much as j-6 wants this team as close to austin as possible, looks like you are forgetting, ignoring or watching thru your rose pastel colored glasses about one person and the only person that matters....Tom Benson. if Tommy Boy wants his team in San Antonio, he'll put his team in san antonio and you can get on your yugo and make the 70 mile drive to the riverwalk or stay there and enjoy you college football.

Marcus Bryant

10-22-2005, 11:00 AM

That's not the point. The point is that if Benson wants to make the most $ in South Central Texas he is going to have to tap into the Austin market.

What happens when Benson says he needs a new $400 mil+ stadium with box seats and 120 suites? Will you dismiss Austin then?

j-6

10-22-2005, 11:05 AM

Here's a an unbiased prespective of the Alamodome compared to the Superdome:

http://saintsreport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178033

That's one guys (the thread starter) perception and then a bunch of people piling on and bitching about the Superdome is old.

As far as your Tom and Rita falling in love with San Antonio theories, they make as much sense as any other reason they are here, I guess. It's just not a sound reason to move from a business perspective. Modell didn't have a passion for life in the city of Baltimore. Same with Adams and Nashville, Frontiere and St Louis, Bidwell and Phoenix, or Irsay and Indiana.

Your gut McCheese theory is fine and all, but we're watching what Benson is doing to the folks in Louisiana. I'm a firm believer that anyone who will do something once (demanding subsidies, being sleazy to your support base, not speaking on NOLA at all) will do it twice, and the mayor is the nearest available target. SA has never had an asshole owner of the Spurs in this guy's caliber.

"Loan Star Bank" is pretty punny, if that's what you intended to write.

my2sons

10-22-2005, 11:05 AM

nope, but there's already a horse track in scherts, amphitheatre and the governor already said he would not object to putting state funds to attract a team, there is no need to go to new braunfels, san marcus or all the way to austin to include the ausin market. if and when this team is successful the austin population will make the trip down to see marquee players. i for one see san antonio growing in the next 8-10yrs where a bandaid fix on the dome will be temporary enough for the city to develop financially to pass a new stadium fix with state aid.

Marcus Bryant

10-22-2005, 11:29 AM

Perry might not oppose using state money but will the Lege go along with that? I don't see it.

You realize that Benson was getting $20 mil out of the state of Louisiana every year?

Marcus Bryant

10-22-2005, 11:36 AM

Props to j-6 for getting this thread back on track after a Thread Killa attack.

TheWriter

10-22-2005, 04:11 PM

What happens when Benson says he needs a new $400 mil+ stadium with box seats and 120 suites? Will you dismiss Austin then?

Why would it concern you?

:lol

Because you want it to?

TheWriter

10-22-2005, 04:14 PM

That's one guys (the thread starter) perception and then a bunch of people piling on and bitching about the Superdome is old.

The guy ha's been to both the Alamodome and Superdome. The rest were just emotionally bashing the Dome in favor of their Superdome.

Modell didn't have a passion for life in the city of Baltimore. Same with Adams and Nashville, Frontiere and St Louis, Bidwell and Phoenix, or Irsay and Indiana.

But the Benson's do here. If they wanted to make top dollar, they'd move to LA. It's that simple.

"Loan Star Bank" is pretty punny, if that's what you intended to write.

No pun intended. It's actually Lone Star Capital Bank. Just thought it was called that.