View Full Version : Warriors: If they lose this series, is it a bigger choke than the 2016 Finals?
Clipper Nation
05-24-2018, 10:49 PM
I can't decide, but I'm leaning towards this being the bigger choke.
In 2016, the Warriors hadn't added KD yet, and LeBron straight-up took that series from them with GOAT-level performances.
In 2018, the Warriors have KD. And this series hasn't been the story of a GOAT doing GOAT things. The Rockets have been absolutely terrible in clutch situations themselves, and have tried so hard to gift these last two games away to the Warriors - and the Warriors have still managed to outchoke them. Add on to the fact that they should be sweeping every series they play in with how much they've stacked the deck, and I really think this will surpass the 2016 Finals as the biggest choke in sports history if they lose this.
midnightpulp
05-24-2018, 10:51 PM
I can't decide, but I'm leaning towards this being the bigger choke.
In 2016, the Warriors hadn't added KD yet, and LeBron straight-up took that series from them with GOAT-level performances.
In 2018, the Warriors have KD. And this series hasn't been the story of a GOAT doing GOAT things. The Rockets have been absolutely terrible in clutch situations themselves, and have tried so hard to gift these last two games away to the Warriors - and the Warriors have still managed to outchoke them. Add on to the fact that they should be sweeping every series they play in with how much they've stacked the deck, and I really think this will surpass the 2016 Finals as the biggest choke in sports history if they lose this.
I think it is. Made a thread about it, as well. There's no excuse for losing a series when you have 3 of the top 10 players in the league on the same team, in their prime, and number 4 who is one of the great shooters in the league. Rockets have Clint Capela and the corpse of Eric Gordon as their 3 and 4 :lol
Chris Fall
05-24-2018, 10:59 PM
Who are the THREE top 10 players on Golden State?
Eric Gordon and Capella are good. Donkey is overrated.
No need to exaggerate the potential choke. 73-9 team adding an in his prime, once in a lifetime talent is enough to make them the biggest chokers ever if they manage to lose.
midnightpulp
05-24-2018, 11:50 PM
Eric Gordon and Capella are good. Donkey is overrated.
No need to exaggerate the potential choke. 73-9 team adding an in his prime, once in a lifetime talent is enough to make them the biggest chokers ever if they manage to lose.
Green is constant fixture in the top 10 players per RPM, finishing high as 2nd and 4th, and ranks 2nd on the Warriors this year. I have my issues with the metric, but it's the best we've got thus far in measuring player impact.
Come on man. He's in a perfect situation where his glaring weaknesses don't matter. That makes his strengths stand out that much more. He's a really really good role player, but that's it. Top 10 guys are the type of players you build around. Any team that builds around Donkey will be lucky to win 10 games.
Clipper Nation
05-25-2018, 12:02 AM
Green is constant fixture in the top 10 players per RPM, finishing high as 2nd and 4th, and ranks 2nd on the Warriors this year. I have my issues with the metric, but it's the best we've got thus far in measuring player impact.
Green is a scrub who was manufactured by the league/refs into a DPOY and All-Star. His artificial impact still contributes to the Warriors being a stacked team, but you're overrating his true talent.
Kawhitstorm
05-25-2018, 12:20 AM
2015 Vs Rockets is still the biggest choke..Gosh Smith:lmao
Clipper Nation
05-25-2018, 12:21 AM
2015 Vs Rockets is still the biggest choke..Gosh Smith:lmao
That was an all-timer for sure, but it pales in comparison to either of these chokes.
AlexJones
05-25-2018, 12:59 AM
Narratives suck. Loser of this series is going to be labelled chokers. We're watching 2 historically great teams duel it out.
UNT Eagles 2016
05-25-2018, 01:16 AM
That was an all-timer for sure, but it pales in comparison to either of these chokes.
Still, that one was pretty epic... up 27 at home near the end of the 3rd quarter in a game 6 up 3-2 and find a way to lose? :lol
This one really isn't a choke, though. Up 2-1, but plenty of teams come back from that. Houston is a high quality team and the #1 overall team, better than GSW all year, for a reason. 2016 was the GOAT choke for sure.
Caltex2
05-25-2018, 01:34 AM
Eric Gordon and Capella are good. Donkey is overrated.
No need to exaggerate the potential choke. 73-9 team adding an in his prime, once in a lifetime talent is enough to make them the biggest chokers ever if they manage to lose.
Sometimes it's addition by subtraction. You noticed they had a worse record last year after finishing 73-9, right?
Perhaps Durant disrupts their flow of chemistry. He's good for bailing them out if they have a cold shooting night but is a ball stopper in a more free flowing offense, taking shots away from the other stars.
Caltex2
05-25-2018, 01:39 AM
Still, that one was pretty epic... up 27 at home near the end of the 3rd quarter in a game 6 up 3-2 and find a way to lose? :lol
This one really isn't a choke, though. Up 2-1, but plenty of teams come back from that. Houston is a high quality team and the #1 overall team, better than GSW all year, for a reason. 2016 was the GOAT choke for sure.
It was 19 but they easily would have lost had it been 27.
David Stern
05-25-2018, 02:34 AM
How about giving the Rockets defense some fucking credit? How about realizing that championships are fucking hard to win (Warriors 2 titles came with the exceptions of injuries to their biggest threats)? That having it “easy” doesn’t last forever. Eventually, you’ll have to face real playoff adversity. I don’t care how fucking talented you are. This isn’t NBA 2K18 where you easily win every game by 30+. This Warriors team is simply getting exposed FFS.
apalisoc_9
05-25-2018, 03:03 AM
Yawn
Boring.
Just end this season already.
Hopefully Boston wins just to shut everyone up.
Chris
05-25-2018, 03:17 AM
Nothing will top 3-1 unless they choke again in the Finals :lol
Chris
05-25-2018, 03:18 AM
No Popovich to stop D'Antoni fun and gun. They might go all the way which is hard to fathom but anything is possible in today's NBA :lol
Caltex2
05-25-2018, 03:30 AM
Yeah, it's crazy, the Rockets didn't even play all that good the last couple games. They beat the Dubs not once but twice without scoring 100. If you told me they would fail to score 100 three straight games, I'd tell you the series wasn't going any further than 6 games and likely a sweep.
Raven
05-25-2018, 03:38 AM
not even close
JuegaBonito
05-25-2018, 04:40 AM
Green is constant fixture in the top 10 players per RPM, finishing high as 2nd and 4th, and ranks 2nd on the Warriors this year. I have my issues with the metric, but it's the best we've got thus far in measuring player impact.
You are on Drugs if you think Draymond Green is a top 10 player, this dude would not even be talked about if he didn't have 3 all stars around him. Top 30 player? Maybe.
All this hoopla of people thinking there's going to be something different this year. I have a feeling it's going to be the Cavs and the Warriors again and the Warriors will win. I will certainly welcome some difference though.
Caltex2
05-25-2018, 10:44 AM
No one can win in Boston and the Cavs aren't playing the Raptors, whom they can get away with not having a coach against.
AlexJones
05-25-2018, 10:45 AM
1000015893240299520
Since there's so many bad takes/narrative hunters here
Clipper Nation
05-25-2018, 11:13 AM
1000015893240299520
Since there's so many bad takes/narrative hunters here
Speaking of bad takes, this is a really bad tweet. Game 1 wasn't even over yet last year when Kawhi got injured. Tough to say that series "turned" when neither team had even won a game yet. For all we know, maybe the Spurs still would have blown that lead even if Kawhi stayed healthy. And just :lol at pretending that Curry was injured in 2016.
It's weird how whenever LeBron is anything less than perfect, he's blamed and called a choker. But now that the Warriors are actually starting to choke, the blog boys are starting up with excuses like "the playoffs are totally random" and "there's no such thing as choking." Ridiculous. The Warriors added another prime MVP to their 73-win/championship roster. Since they've stacked the deck that much, the expectations are that they either win the Finals every year or they've choked - there's no middle ground.
LkrFan
05-25-2018, 11:27 AM
Nope. 3 of the greatest Spurs of all time were on that 2001 team. Didn't matter. Kobe mopped the floor with their fucking ass.
Kobe
:lmao
If you win the last game of the series, no one remembers how shitty you played the games prior.
Nope. 3 of the greatest Spurs of all time were on that 2001 team. Didn't matter. Kobe mopped the floor with their fucking ass.
Kobe
:lmao
You'd know about mopping floors, eh squidmo?
LkrFan
05-25-2018, 12:15 PM
You'd know about mopping floors, eh squidmo?
:lol
SpursforSix
05-25-2018, 12:17 PM
Narratives suck. Loser of this series is going to be labelled chokers. We're watching 2 historically great teams duel it out.
With Paul out, Rockets are off the hook for the choker label.
But it does increase the choke factor should GSW lose.
Sometimes it's addition by subtraction. You noticed they had a worse record last year after finishing 73-9, right?
Perhaps Durant disrupts their flow of chemistry. He's good for bailing them out if they have a cold shooting night but is a ball stopper in a more free flowing offense, taking shots away from the other stars.
That's retarded. You don't add a player of Durbeta's caliber and get worse. He's a bitch but he's far from a cancer. Coasting/injuries is why their regular season record wasn't as good not because they got worse. :lol
spurraider21
05-25-2018, 01:08 PM
to CN, there is no way a team can lose this series without choking.
to CN, there is no way a team can lose this series without choking.
So if both teams play to their potential, we could have 3 or 4 teams in the Finals.
spurraider21
05-25-2018, 05:22 PM
So if both teams play to their potential, we could have 3 or 4 teams in the Finals.
thats the only logical outcome of his position
Capt Bringdown
05-25-2018, 05:22 PM
Not a CP3 fan, but the Rockets don't win game 5 without his contributions, obviously.
If the Warriors can't beat the Rockets without CP3, that's a huge choke but there's only one team in NBA history that's choked away a 3-1 finals lead. That's a singular event that can't be topped, until someone blows a 3-0 lead I reckon.
Unfortunately, the Warriors ain't losing, since I can't imagine how the Rockets compensate for CP3's loss.
Warriors get the benefit of an injury AGAIN.
Just once, I'd like to see one of their starters go down.
Ghazi
05-25-2018, 06:44 PM
It just isnt a historical choke losing to a 65 win team with 2 top 10 players.
Clipper Nation
05-25-2018, 06:54 PM
It just isnt a historical choke losing to a 65 win team with 2 top 10 players.
When you have two prime MVPs, two All-Stars, and a Finals MVP coming off the bench, losing any series to any team is a choke.
Ghazi
05-25-2018, 07:02 PM
True... but this isnt as big a choke as 2016 IMO tbh fwiw we staaaaacked
Caltex2
05-25-2018, 07:24 PM
FkLA, post 30.
I'm talking about disrupting chemistry. Just because you have a team full of all-stars doesn't mean you always win, look at Team USA after 1992.
When you have two prime MVPs, two All-Stars, and a Finals MVP coming off the bench, losing any series to any team is a choke.
If the Rockets lose, they choked because they are the 1st seed.
If the Warriors lose, they choked because they are better than that.
The truth is when a series goes 6 or more games, especially the conference finals, no one chokes unless they are up 25 in the 4th and lose. Both teams have moments of brilliance and ball movement and both teams have longer moments of chaotic, ready to go home, YMCA level play. Even the worst of that is better than the 1st round losing team (cough SPURS cough)
FkLA, post 30.
I'm talking about disrupting chemistry. Just because you have a team full of all-stars doesn't mean you always win, look at Team USA after 1992.
They won last year, in KD's first year. So magically in his 2nd year he's a chemistry killer?
lol no
Clipper Nation
05-26-2018, 12:06 AM
They won last year, in KD's first year. So magically in his 2nd year he's a chemistry killer?
lol no
Actually, yes. I wouldn't say he's a "chemistry killer," but he's certainly making it worse.
Last year, Durbeta fit in more to the team concept and they won. Since winning a cheap ring didn't end up changing anyone's opinion of him, Durbeta has now gone full iso-chucker like the OKC days in a desperate attempt to convince everyone that he's carrying the team. However, all his isoball has accomplished is exposing his lack of truly elite playmaking skills and underwhelming BBIQ, preventing his teammates from getting in rhythm and hurting their chances of winning.
Spurtacular
05-26-2018, 02:08 AM
Eric Gordon and Capella are good. Donkey is overrated.
No need to exaggerate the potential choke. 73-9 team adding an in his prime, once in a lifetime talent is enough to make them the biggest chokers ever if they manage to lose.
The 73-9 was more a reflection on the lack of decent teams in the NBA, tbh.
Caltex2
05-26-2018, 02:30 AM
They won last year, in KD's first year. So magically in his 2nd year he's a chemistry killer?
lol no
They could win this year and he could still be considered one. Their choke in 2016 aside, the Warriors have been the best team each of the last three years but have gotten progressively worse since Durant came on board. It's fair to speculate that he has hurt the flow of their offense and is good for bailing them out against above average or worse teams when the sharpshooters are having an off game.
There's no way the Warriors should be trailing this series, granted, they were lucky to beat the Rockets in 5 three years ago.
They could win this year and he could still be considered one. Their choke in 2016 aside, the Warriors have been the best team each of the last three years but have gotten progressively worse since Durant came on board. It's fair to speculate that he has hurt the flow of their offense and is good for bailing them out against above average or worse teams when the sharpshooters are having an off game.
There's no way the Warriors should be trailing this series, granted, they were lucky to beat the Rockets in 5 three years ago.
They're still a basketball team, not gods. They can be beaten just like Miami could be beaten by a team of mostly D league players. All it takes is to find their Achilles heel. Easier said than done, but the Rockets have gone after Steph relentlessly to the point where he's even lost some of his swag until he gets back home and even then only after he hits a few long range shots. KD probably feels like it's on him. Steph isn't 100%, his shooting is still off just a bit and he's hesitant (did you see him pass up that wide open look last game on that steal?, never happens otherwise). So outside of the big 3, they have no real offense other than Iggy. He's injured.
Fabbs
05-26-2018, 10:38 AM
Actually, yes. I wouldn't say he's a "chemistry killer," but he's certainly making it worse.
Last year, Durbeta fit in more to the team concept and they won.
Phucking asterisk with the bitch Zaza takeout of Kwa.
He looked full on OKC Durant up to that point.
mudyez
05-26-2018, 11:58 AM
Top3 NBA Choke Jobs IMO:
1. 2016 Finals: Historical great Warriors team losing despite being up 3:1. This one is on Donkey.
2. 2007 First Round: Dallas losing to the Warrior in the first round (well Denver beating Seattle in '94 was good too but that was a 5 game series).
3. 2013 Finals Game 6: It hurts but the final seconds of regulation need to be mentioned...But it doesn't hurt anymore as this got us 2014 (I believe, we ain't winning this one, if we win in 2013).
Clipper Nation
05-26-2018, 12:06 PM
(I believe, we ain't winning this one, if we win in 2013).
Wade and Bosh were so washed by 2014 that the Spurs had a repeat on lock if 6 didn't happen.
mudyez
05-26-2018, 12:15 PM
Wade and Bosh were so washed by 2014 that the Spurs had a repeat on lock if 6 didn't happen.
I think what happened 2013 gave the Spurs the motivation to go all the way again. They don't get past OKC in the WCF without that.
Also, if they win the prior year that again puts the bullseye on them, which they never liked.
I may be wrong with all of this, but in my book, it wasn't a wasted championship but only a perfect revenge story.
Ghazi
05-26-2018, 12:17 PM
As time passes by the 2007 Mavs choke doesnt fee that bad. That tram won 67 games but wasnt historic ir special at all, metrics wise... Warriors flat outplayed us.
Clipper Nation
05-26-2018, 12:20 PM
The Mavs would have just choked against Utah instead if they got past GSW.
AlexJones
05-26-2018, 01:01 PM
I didn't think it would be a choke before the series started b/c Houston was just as good as them.. but it would be now. They're -165 favorites down 3-2 because the market either thinks CP3 will be out or at the very least ineffective for G7. You shouldn't lose
Chris Fall
05-26-2018, 02:51 PM
That Golden State team had Dallas’ number that year. Bad match-up for the Mavs. Don Nelson knew the Mavs team inside and out and had a game plan to exploit what he thought were best exploitable. Golden State won all three regular season games too. Plus, Warriors arguably should have been a higher seed if not for all their injuries to their main core players. Their top 5 players missed a combined some 130 or so games. Maybe it was still a choke simply because it was 1-8. But it wasn’t as bad as some are suggesting when you consider all the factors.
Spurs as a 1 seed losing to Memphis a few years later was way more surprising than the Mavs losing to Golden State that year.
Caltex2
05-26-2018, 02:55 PM
They're still a basketball team, not gods. They can be beaten just like Miami could be beaten by a team of mostly D league players. All it takes is to find their Achilles heel. Easier said than done, but the Rockets have gone after Steph relentlessly to the point where he's even lost some of his swag until he gets back home and even then only after he hits a few long range shots. KD probably feels like it's on him. Steph isn't 100%, his shooting is still off just a bit and he's hesitant (did you see him pass up that wide open look last game on that steal?, never happens otherwise). So outside of the big 3, they have no real offense other than Iggy. He's injured.
No one is 100% at this time of year, Steph is as healthy as can be expected, probably as good as Klay with his sprained knee. People only make that excuse when the Warriors lose uncharacteristically, but when he's bombing away they say no one can beat them.
Clipper Nation
05-26-2018, 03:28 PM
That Golden State team had Dallas’ number that year. Bad match-up for the Mavs. Don Nelson knew the Mavs team inside and out and had a game plan to exploit what he thought were best exploitable. Golden State won all three regular season games too. Plus, Warriors arguably should have been a higher seed if not for all their injuries to their main core players. Their top 5 players missed a combined some 130 or so games. Maybe it was still a choke simply because it was 1-8. But it wasn’t as bad as some are suggesting when you consider all the factors.
Spurs as a 1 seed losing to Memphis a few years later was way more surprising than the Mavs losing to Golden State that year.
The problem with the "bad matchup" excuse is that the Mavs tanked on purpose specifically to face GSW. It was an arrogant decision on their part and it cost them.
Chris Fall
05-26-2018, 08:35 PM
The problem with the "bad matchup" excuse is that the Mavs tanked on purpose specifically to face GSW. It was an arrogant decision on their part and it cost them.
How do you tank to get the #1 seed?
Clipper Nation
05-26-2018, 08:46 PM
How do you tank to get the #1 seed?
Huh? They didn't tank for their own seeding, obviously. They tanked to keep the Warriors in the playoffs and the Clippers out.
Chris Fall
05-26-2018, 09:05 PM
Huh? They didn't tank for their own seeding, obviously. They tanked to keep the Warriors in the playoffs and the Clippers out.
Man you warp everything to your own imaginary fictions.
Dallas had wrapped up the #1 seed and homecourt throughout the playoffs well before the final few games of the season. Them conceding one game against Golden State wasn’t arrogance. It was the benefit of being so far ahead of every other team in the standings to have the luxury of resting guys and not trying to win games desperately the final week. They shouldn’t have been scared of Golden State or the Clippers or any other possible 8 seed. But they didn’t owe anything to the Clippers either. It just so happened GS was a bad match up for them. Had nothing to do with arrogance. SMH.
ambchang
05-26-2018, 09:31 PM
That Golden State team had Dallas’ number that year. Bad match-up for the Mavs. Don Nelson knew the Mavs team inside and out and had a game plan to exploit what he thought were best exploitable. Golden State won all three regular season games too. Plus, Warriors arguably should have been a higher seed if not for all their injuries to their main core players. Their top 5 players missed a combined some 130 or so games. Maybe it was still a choke simply because it was 1-8. But it wasn’t as bad as some are suggesting when you consider all the factors.
Spurs as a 1 seed losing to Memphis a few years later was way more surprising than the Mavs losing to Golden State that year.
How can you state warriors injuries and not the spurs injuries in the playoffs or Memphis going on a year in the second half that year?
Chris Fall
05-26-2018, 09:51 PM
How can you state warriors injuries and not the spurs injuries in the playoffs or Memphis going on a year in the second half that year?
Mentioning the Golden State injuries was to suggest their talent was probably better than an 8 seed. Injuries didn’t affect the Spurs playoff seed obviously since they were a #1. Not the same point.
Uhh okay sure Memphis went on a tear in the second half, I guess. I don’t remember tbh. I still think that was a more surprising upset than GS over Dallas.
HarlemHeat37
05-26-2018, 10:31 PM
Not even close..Houston won 65 games, had the best offense of all-time and a really good defense, they aren't some scrub team..
2016 Warriors blew a 3-1 lead and lost to a team with a minimal impact player(Kyrie) killing them:lol
ambchang
05-26-2018, 10:52 PM
Mentioning the Golden State injuries was to suggest their talent was probably better than an 8 seed. Injuries didn’t affect the Spurs playoff seed obviously since they were a #1. Not the same point.
Uhh okay sure Memphis went on a tear in the second half, I guess. I don’t remember tbh. I still think that was a more surprising upset than GS over Dallas.
Once ginobili got hurt it wasn’t that much of a surprise. Those spurs teams were focused on letting ginobili be the focal point of the offense. Started around 09 or so. Parker took it around 12.
TD 21
05-27-2018, 05:06 PM
I didn't for a second buy that they were going to even had Paul stayed healthy, so I damn sure don't now, but yeah, it would.
The '18 Warriors have Durant, arguably the 2nd best player in the league, so despite more mileage and worse depth than the '16 Warriors, they have a higher ceiling and the '18 Rockets no longer have Paul, which makes them worse than the '16 Cavaliers.
The '16 Warriors also lost to one of the 2 greatest players of all time, playing at his peak. Both teams had a superstar and 2 stars. The '18 Warriors have 2 superstars and 2 stars, while the Rockets have 1 healthy superstar and no stars.
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