"White coach" bias among the analytics community..

[spursistan]

This former Grantland writer goes HAM in this thread :wow

I don't think this trend can be overlooked/downplayed anymore. Even here at ST we have this "Black Coaches" shtick running. :lol


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PS. TD21 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=908) often mentions this point among this growing breed of Lowe-wannabes in the NBA blogosphere/twitter

[midnightpulp]

PS. TD21 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=908) often mentions this point among this growing breed of Lowe-wannabes in the NBA blogosphere/twitter

I just got done criticizing that phenomenon in the coaching doesn't matter thread. Bloggers/Vloggers invent tactical patterns that aren't really there to give themselves something to write about and look smart to casual NBA fans. I even think NBA coaches don't buy into that malarkey. When Pop is asked what went wrong during any given game, the press probably expects some Zach Lowe style breakdown and he usually answers something like, "They made more shots." I don't think he's being flippant, either. That is what basketball games literally come down to. I also think there's little differences between Tyron Lue and Steve Kerr. Glorified babysitters.

[endrity]

If you turn the NBA, the most non-white elite institution in the world, into an example of white-race-dominance, you deserve the Identity Politics award for the entire.

This some B.S on the highest level, on the assumptions, interpretations, and conclusions.

[endrity]

I just got done criticizing that phenomenon in the coaching doesn't matter thread. Bloggers/Vloggers invent tactical patterns that aren't really there to give themselves something to write about and look smart to casual NBA fans. I even think NBA coaches don't buy into that malarkey. When Pop is asked what went wrong during any given game, the press probably expects some Zach Lowe style breakdown and he usually answers something like, "They made more shots." I don't think he's being flippant, either. That is what basketball games literally come down to. I also think there's little differences between Tyron Lue and Steve Kerr. Glorified babysitters.

Can't say much about the Lue v. Kerr difference, and Lue definitely won one over him in 2016. But Kerr definitely made an impact on the Warriors compared to Mark Jackson. Part of that difference is that he trusted more the ability of Curry and Klay to carry the team, two partly African-Americans, rather than keep relying on David Lee and Andrew Bogut pick-and-rolls, two white players.

And I think every Dallas fan can point out very well how Avery Johnson essentially destroyed any concept of ball movement and execution while Carlisle restored and made even bad players seem effective in spurts. It's unfortunate for some that one is black and the other is white, but I can't deny whose merit that is.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Since when is Doc getting "roasted"? He just got a contract extension for missing the playoffs and the media narrative has been that he's a great coach who overachieved.

[DMC]

Can't say much about the Lue v. Kerr difference, and Lue definitely won one over him in 2016. But Kerr definitely made an impact on the Warriors compared to Mark Jackson. Part of that difference is that he trusted more the ability of Curry and Klay to carry the team, two partly African-Americans, rather than keep relying on David Lee and Andrew Bogut pick-and-rolls, two white players.

And I think every Dallas fan can point out very well how Avery Johnson essentially destroyed any concept of ball movement and execution while Carlisle restored and made even bad players seem effective in spurts. It's unfortunate for some that one is black and the other is white, but I can't deny whose merit that is.
When Mark was coaching, the Warriors had the fewest passes per possession in the league. After Steve took over, they had the most. Prior to Steve, the PG got the lions share of the assists. After Steve, the assists were shared. This meant more open looks and more involvement on both ends.

Like Carlisle did in Dallas, Steve instituted ball movement and defense. Mark Jackson was just an NBA fan and former player. He had no business coaching and notice he hasn't coached since. Of course, you cannot appreciate the butterfly without giving some love to the caterpillar.

[DMC]

This former Grantland writer goes HAM in this thread :wow

I don't think this trend can be overlooked/downplayed anymore. Even here at ST we have this "Black Coaches" shtick running. :lol


1001304201547386880
1001304708928196608
1001308389622894592
1001311086493171713


PS. TD21 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=908) often mentions this point among this growing breed of Lowe-wannabes in the NBA blogosphere/twitter


Cause vs correlation is in effect here.

It's only a correlation that some shitty coaches are black. I think it's a double edged sword as well - the large majority of NBA players are black, and former "star" players often make shitty head coaches. It's not because they are black. Meanwhile the white kid who couldn't make the team but could run a camera and dissect the film sessions became a coach under someone else who couldn't play worth a shit. How good of a player was Pop? How about Phil Jackson? Steve Kerr? Brad Stevens? None of these guys were great players. It doesn't mean a great player cannot be a great coach, but you can only focus on one thing at a time, and guys who focus on being great because they have the ability to be great (either at coaching or playing) cannot just switch gears and be great elsewhere very often.

Results are all that matters. The tweeter in the OP is just looking for social justice points.

[endrity]

When Mark was coaching, the Warriors had the fewest passes per possession in the league. After Steve took over, they had the most. Prior to Steve, the PG got the lions share of the assists. After Steve, the assists were shared. This meant more open looks and more involvement on both ends.

Like Carlisle did in Dallas, Steve instituted ball movement and defense. Mark Jackson was just an NBA fan and former player. He had no business coaching and notice he hasn't coached since. Of course, you cannot appreciate the butterfly without giving some love to the caterpillar.

The funny thing is that Stephen A. repeatedly says that Mark Jackson deserves to be coaching when the last time he was removed his team went from a low seed in the playoffs to borderline dynasty.

I tried to discuss with this guy on Twitter, and he blocked me. I don't consider myself a "conservative", let alone "alt-right", but these weird identity politics/equity arguments are getting shittier and shittier and its understandable that now there is finally some push back.

I think there is a lot of the "great player doesn't make a great coach" part here too, as you said. I see the same thing in European soccer nowadays, where some of the most innovative coaches coming up are people who barely played at a professional level. They were by all accounts "nerds", who studied film, and numbers, and tried to understand and interpret concepts like time and space. The internet and the information technology age has provided an avenue for little-know talents to break into coaching ranks like never before. Yet you will never hear any of this be called a form of racism or bias like you will see immediately in the US.

[spursistan]

:lol Since when is Doc getting "roasted"? He just got a contract extension for missing the playoffs and the media narrative has been that he's a great coach who overachieved.
Nah he was never credited with any "system"/Xs & Os and mostly lumped together with the rah-rah/players coaches ie. high-end Marc Jackson :lol..

[Clipper Nation]

Nah he was never credited with any "system"/Xs & Os and mostly lumped together with the rah-rah/players coaches ie. high-end Marc Jackson :lol..
There's a difference between "not credited for a system" (it's hard to do that when he doesn't have one) and "roasted." Media rarely ever criticizes Doc.

[TD 21]

There's a difference between "not credited for a system" (it's hard to do that when he doesn't have one) and "roasted." Media rarely ever criticizes Doc.

Newsflash: Very few teams play system basketball anymore and of those that do, it's mostly because of the lack of a superstar(s) or star(s) creator. Most teams run the same stuff, just use different terminology. Of course, there's variations based on the personnel's strengths/weaknesses and the aesthetics are obviously based on that too.

Rivers receives far more criticism than any other championship winning coach in recent memory and this is a guy whose media friendly. Imagine how bad it would be if he treated them like Pop.

[Mitch]

White people are good at coaching, black people are good at playing. I don't see a big deal, tbh

[Arcadian]

Cause vs correlation is in effect here.

It's only a correlation that some shitty coaches are black. I think it's a double edged sword as well - the large majority of NBA players are black, and former "star" players often make shitty head coaches. It's not because they are black. Meanwhile the white kid who couldn't make the team but could run a camera and dissect the film sessions became a coach under someone else who couldn't play worth a shit. How good of a player was Pop? How about Phil Jackson? Steve Kerr? Brad Stevens? None of these guys were great players. It doesn't mean a great player cannot be a great coach, but you can only focus on one thing at a time, and guys who focus on being great because they have the ability to be great (either at coaching or playing) cannot just switch gears and be great elsewhere very often.

Results are all that matters. The tweeter in the OP is just looking for social justice points.

Good point.

[Chucho]

Doc Rivers gets roasted because he's a borderline .500 coach sans a few seasons a stacked roster in a vastly inferior conference netted him.

Tyrone Lue is roasted because he's just a puppet coach that inherited a stacked team in a vastly inferior conference.

[DMC]

The funny thing is that Stephen A. repeatedly says that Mark Jackson deserves to be coaching when the last time he was removed his team went from a low seed in the playoffs to borderline dynasty.

I tried to discuss with this guy on Twitter, and he blocked me. I don't consider myself a "conservative", let alone "alt-right", but these weird identity politics/equity arguments are getting shittier and shittier and its understandable that now there is finally some push back.

I think there is a lot of the "great player doesn't make a great coach" part here too, as you said. I see the same thing in European soccer nowadays, where some of the most innovative coaches coming up are people who barely played at a professional level. They were by all accounts "nerds", who studied film, and numbers, and tried to understand and interpret concepts like time and space. The internet and the information technology age has provided an avenue for little-know talents to break into coaching ranks like never before. Yet you will never hear any of this be called a form of racism or bias like you will see immediately in the US.

SAS is going to say that because it's a brotha thing. No one deserves to be coaching. They get hired based on the owners' needs and whether the owner is convinced enough that the coach fits those needs and can be successful, usually based on his past experiences and based on, in no small degree, references from respected voices around the league. Rest assured that Mark isn't coaching because he didn't get recommended by the right people. Plus he sorta had a dramafest in GS, now they have a dynasty and it's not going away real soon.

[dfens]

identity politics :lol
merica :lol
black coaches :lol
nba racist allright but not against blacks :lol
doc rivers and ty lue good coaches :lmao
smh pop, kerr, stevens, budenholzer, carlisle wipe their assess with the best plays from lue and rivers smh :lol

good job good effort on the thread tbh :lol