The New Aristocracy: the 9.9%

[Winehole23]

A Tale of Three Classes (Figure 1):
The 9.9 percent hold most of the wealth in the United States.

Saez / ZucmanEvery piece of the pie picked up by the 0.1 percent, in relative terms, had to come from the people below. But not everyone in the 99.9 percent gave up a slice. Only those in the bottom 90 percent did. At their peak, in the mid-1980s, people in this group held 35 percent of the nation’s wealth. Three decades later that had fallen 12 points—exactly as much as the wealth of the 0.1 percent rose.


In between the top 0.1 percent and the bottom 90 percent is a group that has been doing just fine. It has held on to its share of a growing pie decade after decade. And as a group, it owns substantially more wealth than do the other two combined. In the tale of three classes (see Figure 1), it is represented by the gold line floating high and steady while the other two duke it out. You’ll find the new aristocracy there. We are the 9.9 percent.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy/559130/

[Winehole23]

Let’s suppose that you start off right in the middle of the American wealth distribution. How high would you have to jump to make it into the 9.9 percent? In financial terms, the measurement is easy and the trend is unmistakable. In 1963, you would have needed to multiply your wealth six times. By 2016, you would have needed to leap twice as high—increasing your wealth 12-fold—to scrape into our group. If you boldly aspired to reach the middle of our group rather than its lower edge, you’d have needed to multiply your wealth by a factor of 25 (http://apps.urban.org/features/wealth-inequality-charts/). On this measure, the 2010s look much like the 1920s.

[Winehole23]

If you are starting at the median for people of color, you’ll want to practice your financial pole-vaulting. The Institute for Policy Studies calculated (https://www.ips-dc.org/report-the-road-to-zero-wealth/) that, setting aside money invested in “durable goods” such as furniture and a family car, the median black family had net wealth of $1,700 in 2013, and the median Latino family had $2,000, compared with $116,800 for the median white family. A 2015 study in Boston found that the wealth of the median white family there was $247,500, while the wealth of the median African American family was $8. That is not a typo. That’s two grande cappuccinos. That and another 300,000 cups of coffee will get you into the 9.9 percent.

[Winehole23]

None of this matters, you will often hear, because in the United States everyone has an opportunity to make the leap: Mobility justifies inequality. As a matter of principle, this isn’t true. In the United States, it also turns out not to be true as a factual matter. Contrary to popular myth, economic mobility in the land of opportunity is not high, and it’s going down.

[Winehole23]

Economists represent this concept with a number they call “intergenerational earnings elasticity,” or IGE, which measures how much of a child’s deviation from average income can be accounted for by the parents’ income. An IGE of zero means that there’s no relationship at all between parents’ income and that of their offspring. An IGE of one says that the destiny of a child is to end up right where she came into the world.


According to Miles Corak, an economics professor at the City University of New York, half a century ago IGE in America was less than 0.3 (https://milescorak.com/2012/01/12/here-is-the-source-for-the-great-gatsby-curve-in-the-alan-krueger-speech-at-the-center-for-american-progress/). Today, it is about 0.5. In America, the game is half over once you’ve selected your parents. IGE is now higher here than in almost every other developed economy. On this measure of economic mobility, the United States is more like Chile or Argentina than Japan or Germany.

[Winehole23]

Rising immobility and rising inequality aren’t like two pieces of driftwood that happen to have shown up on the beach at the same time, he noted. They wash up together on every shore. Across countries, the higher the inequality, the higher the IGE (see Figure 2). It’s as if human societies have a natural tendency to separate, and then, once the classes are far enough apart, to crystallize.
The Great Gatsby Curve (Figure 2): Inequality and class immobility go together.

[Chris]

If you're born to a wealthy family you are more likely to be wealthy? WOW

Aristocracy? That's called Capitalism.

[boutons_deux]

yawn, old news for The Great Boutons, and other people who have been awake and watching.

USA was sold, bought, and delivered decades ago.

We frogs are fucked and unfuckable

Historically, when shit gets this bad, it's armed revolution.

And it's all going to get worse for the lower 4 quintiles, maybe lower 9 deciles.

[Winehole23]

In 1985, 54 percent of students at the 250 most selective colleges came from families in the bottom three quartiles of the income distribution. A similar review of the class of 2010 put that figure at just 33 percent. According to a 2017 study, 38 elite colleges—among them five of the Ivies—had more students from the top 1 percent than from the bottom 60 percent (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/18/upshot/some-colleges-have-more-students-from-the-top-1-percent-than-the-bottom-60.html). In his 2014 book, Excellent Sheep, William Deresiewicz, a former English professor at Yale, summed up the situation nicely: “Our new multiracial, gender-neutral meritocracy has figured out a way to make itself hereditary.”

[Winehole23]

Measured relative to the national median salary, tuition and fees at top colleges more than tripled from 1963 to 2013.

[Winehole23]

For those who made the mistake of being born to the wrong parents, our society offers a kind of virtual education system. It has places that look like colleges—but aren’t really. It has debt—and that, unfortunately, is real. The people who enter into this class hologram do not collect a college premium; they wind up in something more like indentured servitude.

[Chris]

Speaking of spamming <_<

[Winehole23]

By now we’re thankfully done with the tech-sector fairy tales in which whip-smart cowboys innovate the heck out of a stodgy status quo. The reality is that five monster companies—you know the names—are worth about $3.5 trillion combined, and represent more than 40 percent of the market capital on the nasdaq stock exchange. Much of the rest of the technology sector consists of virtual entities waiting patiently to feed themselves to these beasts.

[Winehole23]

If you're born to a wealthy family you are more likely to be wealthy? WOW

Aristocracy? That's called Capitalism.he's slamming the libs, not that you would notice

[Winehole23]

Speaking of spamming <_<by all means, find another thread if this one doesn't suit you

[Winehole23]

Hey Chris, it's called gold-plated socialism for the uber-rich.

bootstrap capitalism for the rest of us


The candy-hurling godfather of today’s meritocratic class, of course, is the financial-services industry. Americans now turn over $1 of every $12 in GDP to the financial sector; in the 1950s, the bankers were content to keep only $1 out of $40. The game is more sophisticated than a two-fisted money grab, but its essence was made obvious during the 2008 financial crisis. The public underwrites the risks; the financial gurus take a seat at the casino; and it’s heads they win, tails we lose. The financial system we now have is not a product of nature. It has been engineered, over decades, by powerful bankers, for their own benefit and for that of their posterity.

[Winehole23]

Let us count our blessings: Every year, the federal government doles out tax expenditures through deductions for retirement savings (worth $137 billion in 2013); employer-sponsored health plans ($250 billion); mortgage-interest payments ($70 billion); and, sweetest of all, income from watching the value of your home, stock portfolio, and private-equity partnerships grow ($161 billion). In total, federal tax expenditures exceeded $900 billion in 2013. That’s more than the cost of Medicare, more than the cost of Medicaid, more than the cost of all other federal safety-net programs put together. And—such is the beauty of the system—51 percent of those handouts went to the top quintile of earners, and 39 percent to the top decile.

[Winehole23]

If the secrets of a nation’s soul may be read from its tax code, then our nation must be in love with the children of rich people. The 2017 tax law raises the amount of money that married couples can pass along to their heirs tax-free from a very generous $11 million to a magnificent $22 million. Correction: It’s not merely tax-free; it’s tax-subsidized. The unrealized tax liability on the appreciation of the house you bought 40 years ago, or on the stock portfolio that has been gathering moths—all of that disappears when you pass the gains along to the kids. Those foregone taxes cost the United States Treasury $43 billion in 2013 alone—about three times the amount spent on the Children’s Health Insurance Program.

[Chris]

Hey Chris, it's called gold-plated socialism for the uber-rich.

bootstrap capitalism for the rest of us


The candy-hurling godfather of today’s meritocratic class, of course, is the financial-services industry. Americans now turn over $1 of every $12 in GDP to the financial sector; in the 1950s, the bankers were content to keep only $1 out of $40. The game is more sophisticated than a two-fisted money grab, but its essence was made obvious during the 2008 financial crisis. The public underwrites the risks; the financial gurus take a seat at the casino; and it’s heads they win, tails we lose. The financial system we now have is not a product of nature. It has been engineered, over decades, by powerful bankers, for their own benefit and for that of their posterity.


Hey I agree the Federal Banks are holding us down. Only problem is every time we have a President who wants to get rid of them, they get shot.

[Winehole23]

how many times did that happen, not including JFK?

[Chris]

Lincoln - Greenbacks

Just look up the creature from jeckyll island tbh

[Winehole23]

I've read it.

Parsimony cuts against the hypothesis that Lincoln was assassinated by international bankers, but I suppose that is at least plausible.

[sickdsm]

Born into a family where both my parents busted ass and gave up things in life in order to scrape together enough to buy some land. Fast forward to me and I'm doing the same. Any successful parent is pushing there kid to get a leg up on their peers. Valuable degree. Work hard and get good grades. Look a person in the eye, etc. Successful kids don't happen randomly. They also don't always get a hand out or inheritance from their parents. How many bottom 20% are instilling these values and traits in the next generation?

[Winehole23]

Kudos to you and your family.

Inheritance is a much better predictor of where one will end up financially in the USA than personal anecdotes and hunches about values.

[Winehole23]

Luck also figures into financial success, but I guess people like to hog all the credit for themselves.

[boutons_deux]

Kudos to you and your family.

Inheritance is a much better predictor of where one will end up financially in the USA than personal anecdotes and hunches about values.

yep, socio/economic mobility (upward) is now greater in Europe than in USA (where socioeconomic mobility is greater downward)

In USA, born rich or poor, die rich or poor.

sick's Horatio Alger anecdotal fairy tale totally ignores how inequality of opportunity, which includes exclusionism, discrimination of many types, keeps 10Ms of young people poor or nearly so their entire lives. The oligarchy/Repugs have been and will continue to fuck over poor people.

And of course real household income has been effectively unchanged for 35 years (thanks, oligarchy), and single male real income is actually down since the 70s.

sick's "it's your own damn fault" for not "succeeding" is right wing bullshit, blaming the victim (for being raped socio/economically)

[spurraider21]

Look up 'Greenbacks'. You're welcome.


Im not doing your homework for you.

Tell me. What federal banking system did Lincoln fight?


Lincoln - Greenbacks

Just look up the creature from jeckyll island tbh
What federal banking system did Lincoln fight?

[Vito Corleone]

When it comes to wealth Americans are their own worst enemy. Our lifestyle is what is holding us back from accumulating wealth. Only Americans think they need to buy a new car every 4 or 5 years. Our grand parents and great grand parents didn't think like this, they bought a car and paid for it, and then they drove it until the wheels fell off, they they put them back on and drove it more. Maybe much later in life they bought another new car.

How often do Americans buy new houses? It is almost unheard of for someone to pay off their mortgage today, most are ended within 12 years. They are ended not because they are paid off but because American's like to think they can afford a bigger and better home. Our grand parents and great grand parents didn't think like this, they bought a home and lived in that home until they took their dirt nap.

This is why that generation was the last to retire with dignity. If you want to become wealthy, you don't have to be born with money or have a great education, you need to learn how to Save your money.

My parents between them have one high school diploma, and they are millionaires. They didn't get that way by being lucky or having great jobs. My dad was career Army, he put in 20 years and got out, he then went to work for the post office, put in another 20 years and got out. My mom worked her whole life at department stores selling makeup.

What they didn't do was buy a lot of houses or cars. They bought a house back in 1980 and paid it off by 1992. Between now and 1992 they have been living without a mortgage and saving that money. Their cars were paid off after 5 years and they drove them until a car accident basically forced them to get a new one, and they paid cash for it because they saved. My dad is still driving his Dodge pickup he bought back in 1978. He replaced the transmission twice and the motor once, but it is still in good shape. He hates car payments.

Did they struggle, yes, but now they have accumulated over a million dollars and as I understand it, it's approaching 2 million. I don't know where that puts him on the scale of wealth, but I know what got him there.

[boutons_deux]

"When it comes to wealth Americans are their own worst enemy"

another anecdote, useless in the Big Picture

congrats to your parents for succeeding. Do you have any idea of the advantages, or lack of impediments, that they have had that 10Ms of other haven't, don't have?

So your idea is that EVERYBODY can be millionaires if they just quit spending money and work their asses off for decades?

[spurraider21]

What federal banking system did Lincoln fight? Chris every time you've brought up this lincoln story, i've asked this simple question. you've never responded tbh :lol... i believe this is the 3rd separate instance

[Vito Corleone]

"When it comes to wealth Americans are their own worst enemy"

another anecdote, useless in the Big Picture

congrats to your parents for succeeding. Do you have any of the advantages, or lack of impediments, that they have had that 10Ms of other haven't, don't have?

So your idea is that EVERYBODY can be millionaires if they just quit spending money and work their asses off for decades?

You can either do what they did or just cry that you weren't born with a silver spoon in your mouth and lament that you are poor. What I'm telling you works, save your money, quit spending, if you don't have a good job, join the military, excel at it and retire in 20. Go work a civil service job for another 20 years.

Hell go become a plumber, learn how to make cabinets, and do it for 40 years, it doesn't matter, what matters is living within your means quit spending on crap you don't really need and save.

Everybody can be millionaires, my parents proved that. I personally didn't see any advantage to that because when I was living in their home, it was as middle class as it gets, It wasn't until about 2000 when they started to see the fruits of all their savings, they are both still alive and my kids are seeing more of it than I was. I am working my ass off, I paid for my own college and I am following their example in my own life. I will have my house paid off in about 9 years so I will be going into my later years with no house payment and about 18 years of rent free living. Notice I didn't mention a thing about inheritance, I don't count money I don't have. If I am left anything from them, than I will be better off, but I'm not going to rely on what I don't have in my pocket.

70% of wealth building comes from what you contribute to it, not from luck or having elite situation, it comes from SAVINGS. Everyone can save, even people with terrible jobs can save some. You just have to chose to do it and stick to it.

Here is a list of shit you probably have that you don't need.

Cell phone, no phone equals between 600 and 1500 savings per year.
No cable TV, another 600 to 1200 per year in savings
Quit eating out, learn how to eat at home and you will save about 3000 to 5000 per year.
Walk, you don't have to drive everywhere, gas savings alone will be about 1000 per year if we just learn how to park the car and use the feet God gave us.
Raise the thermostat to 80 degrees, I know Texas is hot, but when I was a kid, my parents never set it below 80 degrees


I could go on and on, but if you say no to these things, then you are your own worst enemy and you need to look in the mirror because you don't really want to do the things you need to gain wealth.

[boutons_deux]

"cry that you weren't born with a silver spoon in your mouth and lament that you are poor."

false situation.

most of the Americans in or near poverty, going paycheck to paycheck, and on public assistance, are employed, are fucking WHITE, with maybe 2 or more shitty, low-paid, dead-end jobs.

[Chucho]

We live in a society super eager to give our monies back to the "corporate" elite and we foster a society that enables minimally skilled, non producing entertainers and athletes to join the elite, but they've little to return to the economy sans their taxes.

We are a materialistic, spend-first society fueled by how the entertainers, retailers and athletes present an unrealistic lifestyle to us. Couple in the "look at me, I'm awesome/caring/rich-but-not" culture that social media fosters.

Just like with guns, the class gap issue can best be addressed when we as a culture indict ourselves first and put some personal accountability onto ourselves.

[sickdsm]

Commence butt hurt libs because copy/paste brings more to a discussion than an actual discussion.

Wine and Bou arguing that children don't inherit their parent's habits. Do you have data to back that up or is it just another meaningless post?

[Chris]

I've read it.

Parsimony cuts against the hypothesis that Lincoln was assassinated by international bankers, but I suppose that is at least plausible.

Napoleon challenged the bankers when he started to print his own money. Guess how that turned out?

[Chris]

What federal banking system did Lincoln fight?

Not the creature from jeckyll island, but it was the same families.

[spurraider21]

Not the creature from jeckyll island, but it was the same families.
what federal banking system did lincoln fight? should be a fairly straightforward answer. no need for riddles

[Chucho]

"cry that you weren't born with a silver spoon in your mouth and lament that you are poor."

false situation.

most of the Americans in or near poverty, going paycheck to paycheck, and on public assistance, are employed, are fucking WHITE, with maybe 2 or more shitty, low-paid, dead-end jobs.




There is zero correlation between that counterpoint you made to the argument. You're a fucking moron.

[Winehole23]

Commence butt hurt libs because copy/paste brings more to a discussion than an actual discussion.

Wine and Bou arguing that children don't inherit their parent's habits. Do you have data to back that up or is it just another meaningless post?I didn't say so.

Feel free to continue to argue with yourself.
.

[Winehole23]

Napoleon challenged the bankers when he started to print his own money. Guess how that turned out?You're fond of hypotheses that turn on one data point.

[Vito Corleone]

"cry that you weren't born with a silver spoon in your mouth and lament that you are poor."

false situation.

most of the Americans in or near poverty, going paycheck to paycheck, and on public assistance, are employed, are fucking WHITE, with maybe 2 or more shitty, low-paid, dead-end jobs.





There is zero correlation between that counterpoint you made to the argument. You're a fucking moron.

Did I say anything about color? Do I care that moronic white people fall in the same category as others in our system? I know lots of people of color that are smart enough to get out of the dogma that is our social economic system and take control of their lives and their finances.

Again, it's not about how much you make, it's about how much you save and put away. And just for your information, I'm a wealth manager and teach people this on a daily basis. Anyone that knows me has heard my story countless times.

Oh and if you want to get a better idea of the principals I just taught you, pick up a Dave Ramsey book, he pretty much teaches the same principals, we differ in many things but are both on the same page when it comes to getting out of debt and saving for retirement.

[Spurtacular]

Occupy Wall Street ain't getting the Dems votes on this round. Chumpettes not gonna care, tbh.

[Spurtacular]

Occupy Wall Street ain't getting the Dems votes on this round. Chumpettes not gonna care, tbh.

:lol Didn't even have to look.

[SnakeBoy]

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/the-birth-of-a-new-american-aristocracy/559130/

Typical pseudo intellectual article from the Atlantic. Very long, riddled with statistics, zero solutions.

[Winehole23]

best of luck to you if read magazine articles hoping to find solutions to pressing social ills.

I thought it wasn't a bad description of the bad faith of good liberals in the top decile.

[Vito Corleone]

My feeling is both Democrats and Republicans are a bunch of Lemmings, following the leader off their proverbial cliff.

Try for a moment to actually think on you own, don't use canned comments and just decide who you are and what you believe. I have both liberal and conservative views and I reject all parties that try to fit me in their little box.

[pgardn]

There is zero correlation between that counterpoint you made to the argument. You're a fucking moron.

It’s very clear that being social creatures we are likely to mimic what others hold important. So it’s very difficult to argue your point. I would go further stating that what makes people “happy” is a bit rotten. We seem to seek material instead of moments. It seems very few people go back and recall the best moments they have had in their lives. Luckily for me these do not involve vacations or materials. Totally random moments with the right people at the right time given a random but precious situation, no planning.

I could go on. So... I won’t and will say:

I really liked the article Winehole put up. It involves self reflection and some interesting stats. Very Judeo-Christian in self reflection on one’s life as it relates to and how it affects others.

And... I have the good sense to realize I was born into a relatively great situation. If one reads Vito’s post, he needs to state that. Vito is lucky imo. So am I. I am not a Syrian child or a kid born to a crack mom. My parents somehow brought me up properly and allowed me to at least be able to analyze what self fulfillment and happiness entail for me. And to look at others and realize I don’t walk in their shoes, so be careful in judgement and realize what one does can affect others; Empathy is to be valued.

So now we Return to ragging on each other realizing it would never happen face to face.

[DarrinS]

If you have a net worth of $8, you’re doing it wrong.

[Winehole23]

DarrinS picking on the blacks for lacking character and smarts, like he does.

It's not racism because it's an "accurate group generalization"

[boutons_deux]

A $500 surprise expense would put most Americans into debt

Fifty-seven percent of Americans don’t have enough cash (http://www.bankrate.com/finance/consumer-index/money-pulse-0117.aspx) to cover a $500 unexpected expense,

according to a new survey from Bankrate, which interviewed 1,003 adults earlier this month.

While that may appear dire, it reflects

a slight improvement from 2016, when 63 percent of U.S. residents said they wouldn’t be able to handle such an expense.

The improvement reflects the stronger U.S. economy,

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-cant-afford-a-500-emergency-expense/

[Chucho]

It’s very clear that being social creatures we are likely to mimic what others hold important. So it’s very difficult to argue your point. I would go further stating that what makes people “happy” is a bit rotten. We seem to seek material instead of moments. It seems very few people go back and recall the best moments they have had in their lives. Luckily for me these do not involve vacations or materials. Totally random moments with the right people at the right time given a random but precious situation, no planning.

I could go on. So... I won’t and will say:

I really liked the article Winehole put up. It involves self reflection and some interesting stats. Very Judeo-Christian in self reflection on one’s life as it relates to and how it affects others.

And... I have the good sense to realize I was born into a relatively great situation. If one reads Vito’s post, he needs to state that. Vito is lucky imo. So am I. I am not a Syrian child or a kid born to a crack mom. My parents somehow brought me up properly and allowed me to at least be able to analyze what self fulfillment and happiness entail for me. And to look at others and realize I don’t walk in their shoes, so be careful in judgement and realize what one does can affect others; Empathy is to be valued.

So now we Return to ragging on each other realizing it would never happen face to face.


Ummm, ok.

I was just telling Retarded, Racist Boots that his rebuttal was completely irrelevant. Can't stop racist people from being stupid, but can point it out.

[pgardn]

Ummm, ok.

I was just telling Retarded, Racist Boots that his rebuttal was completely irrelevant. Can't stop racist people from being stupid, but can point it out.

Totally agree and adding to it.

You can’t pick your parents and their situation.
And this is huge.

[pgardn]

If you have a net worth of $8, you’re doing it wrong.


Not in Haiti necessarily.
And not if your Donald Trump with huge pending loans unpaid and getting very fortunate his debtors let him slide.

[RandomGuy]

If you're born to a wealthy family you are more likely to be wealthy? WOW

Aristocracy? That's called Capitalism.

:lmao

Blithely unselfaware criticism of capitalism.

[RandomGuy]

DarrinS picking on the blacks for lacking character and smarts, like he does.

It's not racism because it's an "accurate group generalization"

"highly correlated".


There is a reason for that.


White America’s racial resentment is the real impetus for welfare cuts, study says



White Americans are increasingly critical of the country’s social safety net, a new study suggests, thanks in part to a rising tide of racial resentment.

The study, conducted by researchers at two California universities and published Wednesday in the journal Social Forces, finds that opposition to welfare programs has grown among white Americans since 2008, even when controlling for political views and socioeconomic status.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/DNaqUob77rmKDmesNOr1HTtlRpM=/1484x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/3NTDBNWNZA73FP2ETVMFN67J2I.jpg

[boutons_deux]

"White America’s racial resentment is the real impetus for welfare cuts"

yep, and I read a couple years ago that the top reason that right wingers don't want Medicare for All / universal insurance is that black/brown people would be covered

Another poll a couple years ago said that the wealthy don't mind paying more taxes, as long as their taxes don't pay for the safety net.

And of course, Trash's win was based on racist white resentment rather than in the economic disastrous dead end that 10Ms of Trash's voters find themselves.

[RandomGuy]

We live in a society super eager to give our monies back to the "corporate" elite and we foster a society that enables minimally skilled, non producing entertainers and athletes to join the elite, but they've little to return to the economy sans their taxes.

We are a materialistic, spend-first society fueled by how the entertainers, retailers and athletes present an unrealistic lifestyle to us. Couple in the "look at me, I'm awesome/caring/rich-but-not" culture that social media fosters.

Just like with guns, the class gap issue can best be addressed when we as a culture indict ourselves first and put some personal accountability onto ourselves.

Mostly agree.

One has to factor in the stink of money in politics. People with money can, and do, pay for things that benefit themselves. Poor people can't afford lobbyists, who vastly outnumber Congress, and even state legislators.

Our system is rigged in favor of those with money, as is the case in most governments, but the gini co-efficient doesn't lie.

Almost all of the benefits of our economy go to those at the top. Resource asymmetry allows rent-seeking. (economics terms both)

[RandomGuy]

Typical pseudo intellectual article from the Atlantic. Very long, riddled with statistics, zero solutions.

Typical non-intellectual stark from SnakeBoy. Lazily short, riddled with sarcasm, and zero actual substance.

[pgardn]

If you're born to a wealthy family you are more likely to be wealthy? WOW

Aristocracy? That's called Capitalism.

No it’s not.
fckn idiot...

[Winehole23]

Typical non-intellectual stark from SnakeBoy. Lazily short, riddled with sarcasm, and zero actual substance.SnakeBoy used to shoot the shit a little bit. I miss that guy.

[RandomGuy]

You can either do what they did or just cry that you weren't born with a silver spoon in your mouth and lament that you are poor. What I'm telling you works, save your money, quit spending, if you don't have a good job, join the military, excel at it and retire in 20. Go work a civil service job for another 20 years.

Hell go become a plumber, learn how to make cabinets, and do it for 40 years, it doesn't matter, what matters is living within your means quit spending on crap you don't really need and save.

Everybody can be millionaires, my parents proved that. I personally didn't see any advantage to that because when I was living in their home, it was as middle class as it gets, It wasn't until about 2000 when they started to see the fruits of all their savings, they are both still alive and my kids are seeing more of it than I was. I am working my ass off, I paid for my own college and I am following their example in my own life. I will have my house paid off in about 9 years so I will be going into my later years with no house payment and about 18 years of rent free living. Notice I didn't mention a thing about inheritance, I don't count money I don't have. If I am left anything from them, than I will be better off, but I'm not going to rely on what I don't have in my pocket.

70% of wealth building comes from what you contribute to it, not from luck or having elite situation, it comes from SAVINGS. Everyone can save, even people with terrible jobs can save some. You just have to chose to do it and stick to it.

Here is a list of shit you probably have that you don't need.

Cell phone, no phone equals between 600 and 1500 savings per year.
No cable TV, another 600 to 1200 per year in savings
Quit eating out, learn how to eat at home and you will save about 3000 to 5000 per year.
Walk, you don't have to drive everywhere, gas savings alone will be about 1000 per year if we just learn how to park the car and use the feet God gave us.
Raise the thermostat to 80 degrees, I know Texas is hot, but when I was a kid, my parents never set it below 80 degrees


I could go on and on, but if you say no to these things, then you are your own worst enemy and you need to look in the mirror because you don't really want to do the things you need to gain wealth.

It’s expensive to be poor
Why low-income Americans often have to pay more

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2015/09/03/its-expensive-to-be-poor

[Chucho]

Being American in today's culture is expensive.

[RandomGuy]

It’s very clear that being social creatures we are likely to mimic what others hold important. So it’s very difficult to argue your point. I would go further stating that what makes people “happy” is a bit rotten. We seem to seek material instead of moments. It seems very few people go back and recall the best moments they have had in their lives. Luckily for me these do not involve vacations or materials. Totally random moments with the right people at the right time given a random but precious situation, no planning.

I could go on. So... I won’t and will say:

I really liked the article Winehole put up. It involves self reflection and some interesting stats. Very Judeo-Christian in self reflection on one’s life as it relates to and how it affects others.

And... I have the good sense to realize I was born into a relatively great situation. If one reads Vito’s post, he needs to state that. Vito is lucky imo. So am I. I am not a Syrian child or a kid born to a crack mom. My parents somehow brought me up properly and allowed me to at least be able to analyze what self fulfillment and happiness entail for me. And to look at others and realize I don’t walk in their shoes, so be careful in judgement and realize what one does can affect others; Empathy is to be valued.

So now we Return to ragging on each other realizing it would never happen face to face.

Why Rich Kids Are So Good at the Marshmallow Test
Affluence—not willpower—seems to be what’s behind some kids' capacity to delay gratification.


https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/06/marshmallow-test/561779

[RandomGuy]

SnakeBoy used to shoot the shit a little bit. I miss that guy.

He has retreated into his echo chamber, likely never to return.

Escape the echo chamber
First you don’t hear other views. Then you can’t trust them. Your personal information network entraps you just like a cult
https://aeon.co/essays/why-its-as-hard-to-escape-an-echo-chamber-as-it-is-to-flee-a-cult

[rmt]

When it comes to wealth Americans are their own worst enemy. Our lifestyle is what is holding us back from accumulating wealth. Only Americans think they need to buy a new car every 4 or 5 years. Our grand parents and great grand parents didn't think like this, they bought a car and paid for it, and then they drove it until the wheels fell off, they they put them back on and drove it more. Maybe much later in life they bought another new car.

How often do Americans buy new houses? It is almost unheard of for someone to pay off their mortgage today, most are ended within 12 years. They are ended not because they are paid off but because American's like to think they can afford a bigger and better home. Our grand parents and great grand parents didn't think like this, they bought a home and lived in that home until they took their dirt nap.

This is why that generation was the last to retire with dignity. If you want to become wealthy, you don't have to be born with money or have a great education, you need to learn how to Save your money.

My parents between them have one high school diploma, and they are millionaires. They didn't get that way by being lucky or having great jobs. My dad was career Army, he put in 20 years and got out, he then went to work for the post office, put in another 20 years and got out. My mom worked her whole life at department stores selling makeup.

What they didn't do was buy a lot of houses or cars. They bought a house back in 1980 and paid it off by 1992. Between now and 1992 they have been living without a mortgage and saving that money. Their cars were paid off after 5 years and they drove them until a car accident basically forced them to get a new one, and they paid cash for it because they saved. My dad is still driving his Dodge pickup he bought back in 1978. He replaced the transmission twice and the motor once, but it is still in good shape. He hates car payments.

Did they struggle, yes, but now they have accumulated over a million dollars and as I understand it, it's approaching 2 million. I don't know where that puts him on the scale of wealth, but I know what got him there.

Sounds like a summary of The Millionaire Next Door (highly recommended).

[Isitjustme?]

My feeling is both Democrats and Republicans are a bunch of Lemmings, following the leader off their proverbial cliff.

Try for a moment to actually think on you own, don't use canned comments and just decide who you are and what you believe. I have both liberal and conservative views and I reject all parties that try to fit me in their little box.

You sound like a deep, intellectual kind of guy

[RandomGuy]

You sound like a deep, intellectual kind of guy

I call it lazy cynicism. "I'm too cool to bother learning enough to make a choice or figure out which is better"

[Vito Corleone]

It’s expensive to be poor
Why low-income Americans often have to pay more

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2015/09/03/its-expensive-to-be-poor

I would counter this by saying, it's expensive to be stupid. Being poor should only be a temporary thing. I absolutely believe we chose to be poor by the choices we make with our money. If you are poor because you are out of a job, that is understandable, but if you are working and you feel poor, you aren't living right.

Look at how we as Americans lived back about 60 years ago. All you have to do is go look at a house built in the 1050's or 60's. Look closely at the size, the size of the closets, etc. Very small by today's standards. Why? Because it was unheard of for someone to own as much clothes as we have now. One phone, one car, one TV, no cable TV bill, no smart phones, no internet. It can be done. You do it by choice and you aren't poor, you do it by necessity and you are poor but smart. You get those things and complain you are poor, then you are dumb.

Oh, and I practice what I preach, I have no TV and no cable bill. I have internet for my work and a smart phone paid for by my job. I have no car payment, and I save roughly about 12% of my salary every month, some months I am saving a lot more. My biggest mistake, was college loans, and I'm paying them off as fast as I can. I expect to be 100% debt free in 5 years, including my house.


One more bit of free advise, Don't rely on the stock market for building wealth. There are other alternative ways of putting your money to work for you without risking it in the markets. Real Estate is a fantastic place to put your money, as is Annuities and even life insurance policy can be used as a wealth building tool. It's actually my favorite tool. You still should use a financial advisor, or do a hell of a lot of research, but don't think you can invest in real estate because you watch flip this house. That is like saying you can be a doctor because you watch ER.

[RandomGuy]

I would counter this by saying, it's expensive to be stupid. Being poor should only be a temporary thing. I absolutely believe we chose to be poor by the choices we make with our money. If you are poor because you are out of a job, that is understandable, but if you are working and you feel poor, you aren't living right.

Look at how we as Americans lived back about 60 years ago. All you have to do is go look at a house built in the 1050's or 60's. Look closely at the size, the size of the closets, etc. Very small by today's standards. Why? Because it was unheard of for someone to own as much clothes as we have now. One phone, one car, one TV, no cable TV bill, no smart phones, no internet. It can be done. You do it by choice and you aren't poor, you do it by necessity and you are poor but smart. You get those things and complain you are poor, then you are dumb.

Oh, and I practice what I preach, I have no TV and no cable bill. I have internet for my work and a smart phone paid for by my job. I have no car payment, and I save roughly about 12% of my salary every month, some months I am saving a lot more. My biggest mistake, was college loans, and I'm paying them off as fast as I can. I expect to be 100% debt free in 5 years, including my house.

One more bit of free advise, Don't rely on the stock market for building wealth. There are other alternative ways of putting your money to work for you without risking it in the markets. Real Estate is a fantastic place to put your money, as is Annuities and even life insurance policy can be used as a wealth building tool. It's actually my favorite tool. You still should use a financial advisor, or do a hell of a lot of research, but don't think you can invest in real estate because you watch flip this house. That is like saying you can be a doctor because you watch ER.

Last bit first:
My wife and I managed apartments for a decade, she managed, I did the books. I have more than a little financial background, so I am good with both real estate and investments. At this moment paying down our debts is probably our best investment, with the goal of being similarly debt free. We are in the exciting part of the snowball where every few months we get rid of some payment or another.

As for everybody else:
Can't really blame poor people.

Two words:
information asymmetry, and simple psychology. I have posted a bit on this here.

Poverty is a self-feeding cycle, and no amount of finger pointing and smugness will cure it. What will is a decent social safety net, with training, and increases in education spending.

Socialism is the answer, because we have been underinvesting in people for hundreds of years. We are fatter, sicker, and poorer than other Western countries because of it.

[Chris]

Socialism is the answer

I knew it.

[sickdsm]

Red districts have less income inequality than blue districts but Let's ignore that.

[Winehole23]

The OP doesn't. Who did?

[boutons_deux]

Red districts have less income inequality than blue districts but Let's ignore that.

only because they are missing the very high end, while very heavy on the low-wage, low-ed end