Young: sources tell @ExpressNews that Kawhi Leonard wants to be traded from Spurs

[spurs10]

Who knows. I'm not a lawyer but I doubt a player commits fraud just for not being available.

However, I didn't hear he was healthy after game 5 of Spurs' 2018 playoffs. Yeah I'm not a lawyer either and I'm sure it's legit if his injury is still prohibiting him from playing, but then why hide from your team and not bring them up to speed. It's the deceptive part that would be illegitimate. It's very lame he left everyone that was paying him tens of thousands a day to rehab in the dark, including the fans, but probably not fraudulent........unless he was good to go and quit on his team.

[LCM]

YOU didn't hear anything about his quad.

But Danny Green said on Chris Broussard's podcast that Kawhi's quad got worse in the summer, it's pretty clear his quad was an issue back then...


Simmons is the only one talking about 6-7 doctors at the same time he's one of the many guys saying his quad wouldn't allow him to be the same player he was...
Very incoherent and contradictory



Could be permanent damage if team-doctors misdiagnosed/mishandled an injury for a whole season (2017) and the offseason.

Even Woj said all the issues between Kawhi and the Spurs started with this injury. If the player thought Spurs' doctors ruined his career and the Spurs didn't fire those guys, I would get why he said he was doing everything for his teammates but not for the organization.

Then add a greedy uncle to this situaton.

1) Michael C Wright told Tom Haberstrough and his guest Kawhi looked at different doctors on the Back 2 Back podcast July 5th 2018. Wright didn't put out a number like Simmons did. But it's not surprising what Simmons did either. Any major player that could be going to the Celtics or one of their rivals, 76ers, Simmons is going to be all over it. He is just that much of a Celtics homer. So Simmons wasn't the only one who knew of the doctor search.

2) If the Spurs actively went through the 2016 playoffs, the entire 2016 -17 regular season, and the 2017 playoffs knowing Kawhi was hurting, knowing the quad wasn't right, prevented Kawhi from not playing to get healthy, didn't allow him any chance of a second opinion and never reported on any injury report of Kawhi's quad condition the Spurs would be not only destroying one the best athletes that has ever been apart of their franchise, but opening the Spurs franchise up to possible multiple CBA infractions which could lead to major fines, possible suspensions within management, medical staff firings in disgrace, draft picks stripped, Pop and RC Buford would be out the door, and the trust of any player in the San Antonio Spurs franchise would be ruined for a generation. Because if the Spurs would directly and intentionally harm this player, the face of their franchise, what would they do any player and their health.

Questions need to be asked. It isn't about being right, it's about what is the truth. Trying to discover it any way we can. Because once the true facts are known, then people will make up their own minds about them and then move on. But right now this issue isn't going to go away. Nor should it until the true details of what happened during last season are fully known.

[YGWHI]

1) Michael C Wright told Tom Haberstrough and his guest Kawhi looked at different doctors on the Back 2 Back podcast July 5th 2018. Wright didn't put out a number like Simmons did. But it's not surprising what Simmons did either. Any major player that could be going to the Celtics or one of their rivals, 76ers, Simmons is going to be all over it. He is just that much of a Celtics homer. So Simmons wasn't the only one who knew of the doctor search.

2) If the Spurs actively went through the 2016 playoffs, the entire 2016 -17 regular season, and the 2017 playoffs knowing Kawhi was hurting, knowing the quad wasn't right, prevented Kawhi from not playing to get healthy, didn't allow him any chance of a second opinion and never reported on any injury report of Kawhi's quad condition the Spurs would be not only destroying one the best athletes that has ever been apart of their franchise, but opening the Spurs franchise up to possible multiple CBA infractions which could lead to major fines, possible suspensions within management, medical staff firings in disgrace, draft picks stripped, Pop and RC Buford would be out the door, and the trust of any player in the San Antonio Spurs franchise would be ruined for a generation. Because if the Spurs would directly and intentionally harm this player, the face of their franchise, what would they do any player and their health.

Not sure why you say the Spurs didn't report Kawhi's quad injury before when they said often "knee" "quad" in the games he missed in previous seasons..

It's not a secret anymore that the "conservative" Spurs doctors let injured players to play if those players wanted, even knowing they could aggravate their injuries. It happened to Danny and Patty, in Mills' case he aggravated it at the point to need a surgery.


Questions need to be asked. It isn't about being right, it's about what is the truth. Trying to discover it any way we can. Because once the true facts are known, then people will make up their own minds about them and then move on. But right now this issue isn't going to go away. Nor should it until the true details of what happened during last season are fully known.
I guess you will never get those answers. Media will write many articles, all them will be just speculation and theories because neither RC/Pop/Kawhi will talk about...

[SAGirl]

Have a good time no matter who you watch, but how many games of DeRozan did you watch last season when the Raptors were on an absolute roll? Is your feelings about him based on multiple games or just a glance in the playoffs? Derozan is an All-Star. Maybe not a superstar, but a big improvement on someone that doesn't play and definitely an improvement at the 2 spot.
He’s a one way player and I really don’t like players that don’t play defense. He’s also been a big choke artist when it counts. Many fans here watch multiple teams. Heck some do it bc they gamble.

This is is an entertainment. I actually like Aldridge though I know he’s not that popular but haven’t really liked DeRozan when I have watched him.
l like Murray though and think he has potential bc he’s developed defensively first. I don’t know how much improved he will be but he’s the one who intrigues me. I hope to catch some of White. I thought he should have played more last season. I am still interested in seeing how Kawhi and Danny are playing. I haven’t lived in San Antonio for 4 years and I probably can catch on with any other up and coming team. TBH, I am in the east coast so the times of their games might even be all the more friendly to my schedule to watch. I also like Philly and Boston and have opportunities to watch eastern conference teams more often.

I am glad I got to watch the big 3 b4 Timmy retired while I still lived in SA though.

I am also not completely abandoning interest fir the Spurs but it’s really not what it was unless some unforeseen development from their guards happen.

[NickiRasgo]

He’s a one way player and I really don’t like players that don’t play defense. He’s also been a big choke artist when it counts. Many fans here watch multiple teams. Heck some do it bc they gamble.

This is is an entertainment. I actually like Aldridge though I know he’s not that popular but haven’t really liked DeRozan when I have watched him.
l like Murray though and think he has potential bc he’s developed defensively first. I don’t know how much improved he will be but he’s the one who intrigues me. I hope to catch some of White. I thought he should have played more last season. I am still interested in seeing how Kawhi and Danny are playing. I haven’t lived in San Antonio for 4 years and I probably can catch on with any other up and coming team. TBH, I am in the east coast so the times of their games might even be all the more friendly to my schedule to watch. I also like Philly and Boston and have opportunities to watch eastern conference teams more often.

I am glad I got to watch the big 3 b4 Timmy retired while I still lived in SA though.

I am also not completely abandoning interest fir the Spurs but it’s really not what it was unless some unforeseen development from their guards happen.

I'm with you and thinking the same way. I'm not completely abandoning the Spurs, in fact still a fan but it's not the same as before when I'm supporting the team. It's like I'm not expecting anymore. Damn this is sad. :depressed

[SAGirl]

I'm with you and thinking the same way. I'm not completely abandoning the Spurs, in fact still a fan but it's not the same as before when I'm supporting the team. It's like I'm not expecting anymore. Damn this is sad. :depressed
I actually like their young players and understand their desire to remain competitive vs going on a rebuild.? It’s the best business decision.

If I still lived in SA I would probably continue to watch them and attend the ocasional game no matter what, but I am not local anymore and now the Spurs are like any other team for me bc my favorites are gone. It is what it is.

I have to develop some new favorites or bandwagon elsewhere...

East coast teams are more friendly to my timezone anyways.

[NickiRasgo]

I actually like their young players and understand their desire to remain competitive vs going on a rebuild.? It’s the best business decision.

If I still lived in SA I would probably continue to watch them and attend the ocasional game no matter what, but I am not local anymore and now the Spurs are like any other team for me bc my favorites are gone. It is what it is.

I have to develop some new favorites or bandwagon elsewhere...

East coast teams are more friendly to my timezone anyways.

Or maybe it's Pop ego that he doesn't to be part of fully rebuilding anymore (I'm talking about Celtics' offer if it's true) since he'll soon going to retired as well.
I don't even live in SA nor even in USA but I used to be a die-hard Spurs fan since 2003 (when I'm still 10 or 11 years old) maybe until 2016.

It seems I'm starting losing interest (in NBA) lately since Tim Duncan retired, I'm slowly turning watching more eSports (Dota, CSGO) games lately than NBA. For the record, I think I've only watch less than 10 or even only 5 (full) games last season of the Spurs and mostly just watch highlights on YouTube when they won against .500 teams.

[offset formation]

I'm with you and thinking the same way. I'm not completely abandoning the Spurs, in fact still a fan but it's not the same as before when I'm supporting the team. It's like I'm not expecting anymore. Damn this is sad. :depressed


He’s a one way player and I really don’t like players that don’t play defense. He’s also been a big choke artist when it counts. Many fans here watch multiple teams. Heck some do it bc they gamble.

This is is an entertainment. I actually like Aldridge though I know he’s not that popular but haven’t really liked DeRozan when I have watched him.
l like Murray though and think he has potential bc he’s developed defensively first. I don’t know how much improved he will be but he’s the one who intrigues me. I hope to catch some of White. I thought he should have played more last season. I am still interested in seeing how Kawhi and Danny are playing. I haven’t lived in San Antonio for 4 years and I probably can catch on with any other up and coming team. TBH, I am in the east coast so the times of their games might even be all the more friendly to my schedule to watch. I also like Philly and Boston and have opportunities to watch eastern conference teams more often.

I am glad I got to watch the big 3 b4 Timmy retired while I still lived in SA though.

I am also not completely abandoning interest fir the Spurs but it’s really not what it was unless some unforeseen development from their guards happen.

So...self-admitted bandwagoners, not a true team fan. They aren't "fun" anymore. Aren't in the hunt. Lost my favorite player. Boring. Dont live there anymore.

Good fucking riddance. So fucking pathetic.

[daslicer]

So...self-admitted bandwagoners, not a true team fan. They aren't "fun" anymore. Aren't in the hunt. Lost my favorite player. Boring. Dont live there anymore.

Good fucking riddance. So fucking pathetic.

Agreed.

[NickiRasgo]

So...self-admitted bandwagoners, not a true team fan. They aren't "fun" anymore. Aren't in the hunt. Lost my favorite player. Boring. Dont live there anymore.

Good fucking riddance. So fucking pathetic.

I've (Join Date 06-13-2009) been here more than you (Join Date 07-09-2015) then calling me a bandwagon. I've been a fan of the Spurs since 2003 because of Tim Duncan then the key members of the team.
Not because I'm saying negative things about the Spurs, doesn't mean I'm no longer a fan. I didn't said it too in a harsh way.

But whatever, don't care what you say. It's hilarious I've triggered someone. :lol

[offset formation]

I've (Join Date 06-13-2009) been here more than you (Join Date 07-09-2015) then calling me a bandwagon. I've been a fan of the Spurs since 2003 because of Tim Duncan then the key members of the team.
Not because I'm saying negative things about the Spurs, doesn't mean I'm no longer a fan. I didn't said it too in a harsh way.

But whatever, don't care what you say. It's hilarious I've triggered someone. :lol

Did you see that SA Girl literally used the term "bandwagon..?"

You said you agreed with her take earlier. Just own that you're a piss-poor scumbag of a fan that only sucks on to winners. Now that you see a potential hiccup in the plan, it's time to slowly remove yourself. Look for greener pastures.

You didn't trigger me. You merely revealed yourself, fool.

[NickiRasgo]

Did you see that SA Girl literally used the term "bandwagon..?"

You said you agreed with her take earlier. Just own that you're a piss-poor scumbag of a fan that only sucks on to winners. Now that you see a potential hiccup in the plan, it's time to slowly remove yourself. Look for greener pastures.

You didn't trigger me. You merely revealed yourself, fool.

:bobo

[bklynspursfan]

Or maybe it's Pop ego that he doesn't to be part of fully rebuilding anymore (I'm talking about Celtics' offer if it's true) since he'll soon going to retired as well.
I don't even live in SA nor even in USA but I used to be a die-hard Spurs fan since 2003 (when I'm still 10 or 11 years old) maybe until 2016.

It seems I'm starting losing interest (in NBA) lately since Tim Duncan retired, I'm slowly turning watching more eSports (Dota, CSGO) games lately than NBA. For the record, I think I've only watch less than 10 or even only 5 (full) games last season of the Spurs and mostly just watch highlights on YouTube when they won against .500 teams.

Fans don't realize how ugly a rebuild is. I'm glad Pop/RC didn't go that route. They're competitors just like the players, why should they turn into a shit show because 1 player decided to go rogue?

[NickiRasgo]

Fans don't realize how ugly a rebuild is. I'm glad Pop/RC didn't go that route. They're competitors just like the players, why should they turn into a shit show because 1 player decided to go rogue?

I know maybe because I'm not really solve with the pieces we got from Kawhi considering if the rumors of the Celtics offered is true.
Just wish Kawhi didn't said he's preferred destination, just ask he wants to be traded then maybe we could've got a better deal.

[TD 21]

I and I suspect the front office would have preferred to somewhat re-build, if they could have gotten a concrete building block as the centerpiece of the package (Brown, Ingram and I don't think they wanted Fultz, but maybe if he could have been re-routed for Jackson, etc.).

No matter how appealing they might have the potential to be 1-2 years in advance, straight picks for a star, much less a superstar, are too risky. Too much unknown, especially that far out. I realize there's a good chance a few end up top 5-10 (in a supposedly weak draft), but look no further than the past 5 drafts to find out how meaningless that could be (Len, Noel, McLeMore, Burke, Exum, Stauskas, Vonleh, Okafor, Hezonja, Mudiay, Johnson, Kaminsky, Bender, Chriss).

Flawed as he is, the odds of even landing a player as good as DeRozan are slim. Sure, he caps the ceiling relatively low, but if 3-5 years down the line those picks became the players I mentioned, how bad would it look to have traded Leonard for essentially nothing?

Aldridge-DeRozan become virtual expiring's in a year. If this (bridge?) era fails to meet modest expectations, they could shop both by the '20 deadline, recoup some (albeit lesser) picks/prospects and enter a re-build then.

[Dex]

I’ll miss him. Might watch the Raptors some tbh.

I am really not a DeRozan fan. This team needs some development from Murray or someone else to really keep me engaged. They aren’t very likeable right this moment...

:td to this mentality.

It is about the name on the front of the jersey, not the back.

[SpursDynasty85]

I and I suspect the front office would have preferred to somewhat re-build, if they could have gotten a concrete building block as the centerpiece of the package (Brown, Ingram and I don't think they wanted Fultz, but maybe if he could have been re-routed for Jackson, etc.).

No matter how appealing they might have the potential to be 1-2 years in advance, straight picks for a star, much less a superstar, are too risky. Too much unknown, especially that far out. I realize there's a good chance a few end up top 5-10 (in a supposedly weak draft), but look no further than the past 5 drafts to find out how meaningless that could be (Len, Noel, McLeMore, Burke, Exum, Stauskas, Vonleh, Okafor, Hezonja, Mudiay, Johnson, Kaminsky, Bender, Chriss).

Flawed as he is, the odds of even landing a player as good as DeRozan are slim. Sure, he caps the ceiling relatively low, but if 3-5 years down the line those picks became the players I mentioned, how bad would it look to have traded Leonard for essentially nothing?

Aldridge-DeRozan become virtual expiring's in a year. If this (bridge?) era fails to meet modest expectations, they could shop both by the '20 deadline, recoup some (albeit lesser) picks/prospects and enter a re-build then.

Good points on a possible rebuild in 2 years if things turn south this and the following next year. I would hate to see that happen though. I foresee st least 50+ wins each next 2 seasons with at least 2nd round of the playoffs. By then Dejounte, White, Walker. And Poeltl should be entering maturity.

[bklynspursfan]

:td to this mentality.

It is about the name on the front of the jersey, not the back.

Word... I'm hype for this season to start already. I feel like this team will be playing with some edge this year. Season can't start soon enough.

Idk how anyone can't be excited after what was witnessed last season.

[TimmyBuckets]

So...self-admitted bandwagoners, not a true team fan. They aren't "fun" anymore. Aren't in the hunt. Lost my favorite player. Boring. Dont live there anymore.

Good fucking riddance. So fucking pathetic.

Everyone supports and follows their team differently. I think they've always been fun, but that's because it's fun watching them win and watching the youth grow because they're my team. I've been in LA all my life and never stepped foot in SA, but I grew up watching them. I don't think it makes you a "bandwagoner" if you follow the team less when they're losing than when their winning. Even though I would never do it, it's not "pathetic" to root for other teams. Some fans don't want to go through the emotions of watching games or growing pains of new players for a lower payoff (making the PF, instead of contending for a chip). In my mind, however, as long as Pop is at the helm, Spurs have a shot at the chip, idgaf what anyone says.

[offset formation]

Everyone supports and follows their team differently. I think they've always been fun, but that's because it's fun watching them win and watching the youth grow because they're my team. I've been in LA all my life and never stepped foot in SA, but I grew up watching them. I don't think it makes you a "bandwagoner" if you follow the team less when they're losing than when their winning. Even though I would never do it, it's not "pathetic" to root for other teams. Some fans don't want to go through the emotions of watching games or growing pains of new players for a lower payoff (making the PF, instead of contending for a chip). In my mind, however, as long as Pop is at the helm, Spurs have a shot at the chip, idgaf what anyone says.

To her credit and shame, SAGirl acknowledged being a bandwagon fan a few posts later and said she would be auditioning other teams, in essence. And you know, that's fine, just don't keep coming to ST and then represent yourself as a fan because in my mind, being a fan does not entail either bandwagoning or looking for a more exciting opportunity.

That. Is. Pathetic.

Nor does it entitle actual fans to check out because even though they'll still be good, they're not title contenders. It's antithetical to fandom. Were the Chicago Cubs fans of similar constitutional makeup, Wrigley would have been empty by the 1930s, ffs. Winning is not a prerequisite for fandom, though I certainly acknowledge it might attract initial fans. But a habitual bandwagoner is among the lowest specimen on the planet, imo, tbh.

As for rooting for other teams, I agree it's ok to a point, but should never be done as a quest to find a usurper to your original favorite.

These are the Galaxy's rules of fandom. Learn them. Live them. Or, GTFOH.

[bklynspursfan]

1027998479715655682

[iGetbuckets]

1027998479715655682

Will he actually have the balls to play tho

[offset formation]

Will he actually have the balls to play tho

Vaginitis. Nope.

[Ron Swanson]

Kawhi on the morning of January 3rd:

https://media.giphy.com/media/q9HHyHPISNZD2/giphy.gif

[Pound the rock]

To her credit and shame, SAGirl acknowledged being a bandwagon fan a few posts later and said she would be auditioning other teams, in essence. And you know, that's fine, just don't keep coming to ST and then represent yourself as a fan because in my mind, being a fan does not entail either bandwagoning or looking for a more exciting opportunity.

That. Is. Pathetic.

Nor does it entitle actual fans to check out because even though they'll still be good, they're not title contenders. It's antithetical to fandom. Were the Chicago Cubs fans of similar constitutional makeup, Wrigley would have been empty by the 1930s, ffs. Winning is not a prerequisite for fandom, though I certainly acknowledge it might attract initial fans. But a habitual bandwagoner is among the lowest specimen on the planet, imo, tbh.

As for rooting for other teams, I agree it's ok to a point, but should never be done as a quest to find a usurper to your original favorite.

These are the Galaxy's rules of fandom. Learn them. Live them. Or, GTFOH.
Well said, have to stick with and support your team through the lean years

[RC_Drunkford]

1007674468452458496


His group leaked it to 5 different journalists :lmao

[NickiRasgo]

Really wished that pushes-thru before. If only if the Kings are stupid or desperate enough during that time. We could have Doncic now. This was the only rumor I was excited about before. Not totally rebuilding but going youth.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2781297-nba-draft-rumors-kings-discussed-trading-no-2-pick-kawhi-leonard-linked

[Yogatti]

TATUM + ROZIER

Ingram + Kuzma

Fultz + Saric + 10th pick.




Get it done PATFO

Derozen and a bag of chips :lmao

also paying Father Masai $5 million Dollars to complete the trade:lmao

R.C. Drunkford :lmao

Poop:lmao

[Yogatti]

My take is that Pop didn't offer the Super Max and he's balking. That or his uncle... Either way I don't care how good Kawhi is, he didn't deserve the Super Max after missing a full year. It's not worth the risk and frankly not how PATFO does things. Good for them. As for Kawhi, don't let the door hit you on the way out.


:lmao

[raybies]

:lmao
still feel the same... hindsight it was a bad call but at the time when I trusted he was injured it was too big a risk.

[Genovaswitness]

kawhi is the best player in the league and took the spurs out of the late 00s muck and we didn’t want to give him the super max :lmao

PATFO :lmao

[SpursDynasty85]

kawhi is the best player in the league and took the spurs out of the late 00s muck and we didn’t want to give him the super max :lmao

PATFO :lmao

Even though your mind is already made up. They wanted a Super Max deal at a time when his entourage were already weird, they admitted they were eventually going to LA, and wanted a No-trade clause, and did not want to promote Spurs culture. I would say they made it pretty hard on themselves too.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Fuck Kawhi.

[DPG21920]

Bump

[offset formation]

Fuck neph. Un-bump.

[Ariel]

Are we going to bump every f*cking thread with Kawhi's name on its title??? :bang

[slick'81]

Are we going to bump every f*cking thread with Kawhi's name on its title??? :bang

as long as spurs keep losing and it still hurts

[SupremeGuy]

PATFO fucked this team up until we land another golden ticket like David Robinson or Tim Duncan.

[Leetonidas]

Why does this stupid thread keep getting bumped? It still hurts...

[The Truth #6]

Kawhi isn’t going to be happy anywhere. Also, his best days are behind him, and he’s basically doing a fucked up though brilliant scheme of getting as much money as he can from the Clippers while playing as little as possible. The Clippers’, oddly, have a jinxed history players with weird knee injuries, so he’s right at home. The national media underappreciated him while he was in San Antonio, which is not shocking, and he personally torpedoed his value by being an asshole, so that sucked. But yeah, they could’ve gone a different direction in trading him, for sure

[MultiTroll]

Fuck neph. Un-bump.


Are we going to bump every f*cking thread with Kawhi's name on its title??? :bang


Why does this stupid thread keep getting bumped? It still hurts...
Motion to move this thread to NBA Forum.

Kwa is no longer a Spur.

[KingKev]

Like him or not that hoe Kawhi is still top 5 in the NBA when healthy.

Again, IF healthy that Clippers team will be a damn good team. I personally am looking forward to a Clippers/GS showdown in the west and seeing the Lakers get curb stomped in the first or second round.

[exstatic]

Like him or not that hoe Kawhi is still top 5 in the NBA when healthy.

Again, IF healthy that Clippers team will be a damn good team. I personally am looking forward to a Clippers/GS showdown in the west and seeing the Lakers get curb stomped in the first or second round.

He’ll never be healthy again. His best days are far, far behind him. He’s played 178 games over the past 5 seasons. 178 games. This season will also be his ACL recovery season, always a down year.

[KingKev]

He’ll never be healthy again. His best days are far, far behind him. He’s played 178 games over the past 5 seasons. 178 games. This season will also be his ACL recovery season, always a down year.

Take your Spurs cap off for a minute. I understand the hate, I do but manage his minutes and he goes into the playoffs as a top 5-10 NBA player. By April he will be two years removed from that injury. Have you seen how much he has built his physique since? He may not be as quick on the perimeter but everything else he needs is still there.

[wildbill2u]

This thread is still click bait, but there is nothing new about anything relating to Spurs. I vote we archive it and only start another thread if there is something about Kwahi currently that pertains to the Spurs.

[TD 21]

Like him or not that hoe Kawhi is still top 5 in the NBA when healthy.

Again, IF healthy that Clippers team will be a damn good team. I personally am looking forward to a Clippers/GS showdown in the west and seeing the Lakers get curb stomped in the first or second round.

People always say that or "two-time Finals MVP" (without context), as if that excuses his behavior.

It's not even true. He's had stretches of that caliber play for sure, but so have about 10 other players since he rose to prominence. Longevity/consistency, doing it in less-than-ideal circumstances (health/quality of team wise) matters, which he's failed miserably at.

Loved seeing Scream A. and Jefferson call his punk ass out today.

[KingKev]

People always say that or "two-time Finals MVP" (without context), as if that excuses his behavior.

It's not even true. He's had stretches of that caliber play for sure, but so have about 10 other players since he rose to prominence. Longevity/consistency, doing it in less-than-ideal circumstances (health/quality of team wise) matters, which he's failed miserably at.

Loved seeing Scream A. and Jefferson call his punk ass out today.

I’ll need to see that. Hated Jefferson as a player but like him as an analyst.

I’m not putting Leonard in all time great convos because of lack of longevity but when healthy he is mighty elite. He only needs 3 months of health to string together another deep playoff run or finals appearance. His running mates are pretty damn good too. That 2018 finals doesn’t happen versus a healthy Warriors team but a healthy Leonard versus a healthy GS would be fucking entertaining this season.

[TD 21]

I’ll need to see that. Hated Jefferson as a player but like him as an analyst.

I’m not putting Leonard in all time great convos because of lack of longevity but when healthy he is mighty elite. He only needs 3 months of health to string together another deep playoff run or finals appearance. His running mates are pretty damn good too. That 2018 finals doesn’t happen versus a healthy Warriors team but a healthy Leonard versus a healthy GS would be fucking entertaining this season.

But that's just it, I don't care if he plays 50 or whatever games his sleazebag uncle lets his brainwashed ass out of his cage for, then turns it on while rested with his best on paper team in the league surrounding him and wins a championship. Big deal.

He'll still be behind Jokic, Antetokounmpo, Embiid, Doncic, Durant, James, Curry and possibly Davis (depending on whether he can bounce back). You know, guys who don't need pristine circumstances to flash that form for stretches.

[KingKev]

But that's just it, I don't care if he plays 50 or whatever games his sleazebag uncle lets his brainwashed ass out of his cage for, then turns it on while rested with his best on paper team in the league surrounding him and wins a championship. Big deal.

He'll still be behind Jokic, Antetokounmpo, Embiid, Doncic, Durant, James, Curry and possibly Davis (depending on whether he can bounce back). You know, guys who don't need pristine circumstances to flash that form for stretches.

Agreed fully. Injuries are apart of the game. KD, Embiid and James are new age iron-men whether you like their off court persona or not.

AD, admittedly doesn’t build his body so I can’t appreciate him in the same regard.

You can’t tell me Leonard doesn’t put in the work.

[TD 21]

Agreed fully. Injuries are apart of the game. KD, Embiid and James are new age iron-men whether you like their off court persona or not.

AD, admittedly doesn’t build his body so I can’t appreciate him in the same regard.

You can’t tell me Leonard doesn’t put in the work.

The difference between all of them and him is, they play hurt (injured is different), he won't play with a broken fingernail and not only that, but he makes decisions independent of his organizations, oftentimes not even keeping them in the loop so they can pretend to be instep to the media.

He's a disgrace in every sense and the free pass/ass kissing he's received (while the media pretends Irving, Harden, Simmons and Davis slaughtered 100 people) is the most bizarre thing I've ever seen in a league filled with them.

[daslicer]

The difference between all of them and him is, they play hurt (injured is different), he won't play with a broken fingernail and not only that, but he makes decisions independent of his organizations, oftentimes not even keeping them in the loop so they can pretend to be instep to the media.

He's a disgrace in every sense and the free pass/ass kissing he's received (while the media pretends Irving, Harden, Simmons and Davis slaughtered 100 people) is the most bizarre thing I've ever seen in a league filled with them.

He gets away with it because he's not on social media, and hardly ever talks. Those guys put themselves out there too much and say stupid things which gets them more criticism than him granted I think he deserves to get bashed on the same level as those guys.

[gambit1990]

rip spurs. we had an amazing run.

[slick'81]

He gets away with it because he's not on social media, and hardly ever talks. Those guys put themselves out there too much and say stupid things which gets them more criticism than him granted I think he deserves to get bashed on the same level as those guys.

and mostly because its San Antonio. Plus being mute does seem to play in his favor

[stephen jackson]

We coulda had doncic ? I don’t remember that smh

[slick'81]

We coulda had doncic ? I don’t remember that smh

one rumor was boston offered tatum early in the saga but spurs passed because they thought they could still work things out. Who knows what deals or scenarios could of actually played out

[Ice009]

People always say that or "two-time Finals MVP" (without context), as if that excuses his behavior.

It's not even true. He's had stretches of that caliber play for sure, but so have about 10 other players since he rose to prominence. Longevity/consistency, doing it in less-than-ideal circumstances (health/quality of team wise) matters, which he's failed miserably at.

Loved seeing Scream A. and Jefferson call his punk ass out today.

People keep saying Kawhi's washed, but again, when healthy, you look at his numbers his last three playoff runs and his numbers are better than 95% of the players in the playoffs. Sure, he's been injured, but like KingKev said, when he's healthy, he's still been pretty darn good/great. Better than nearly everyone else in the playoffs (I don't care about the regular season that much), so I can't put Lebron, AD, Kyrie, Durant ahead of him as they simply haven't played better than him these past few playoffs. His last playoff run he was playing better than Giannis IMO before he tore his ACL (Clippers may have beaten the Bucks in the finals had Kawhi not torn his ACL and if they did, that would have been 2 rings in 3 years. Freak injury that could have changed the perception of everything had it not happened. They could have even won it in 2020 if they didn't choke away the series to the Nuggets. It should have been Clippers Vs Lakers WCF, but that was a choke). Anyway, looking back at the 2021 playoffs, IMO he was completely dominating, playing one of his most efficient playoffs ever up to that point. So the last time we saw him, he was playing great up until a freak injury took him out.

[Seventyniner]

He gets away with it because he's not on social media, and hardly ever talks. Those guys put themselves out there too much and say stupid things which gets them more criticism than him granted I think he deserves to get bashed on the same level as those guys.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."

[lefty20]

People keep saying Kawhi's washed, but again, when healthy, you look at his numbers his last three playoff runs and his numbers are better than 95% of the players in the playoffs. Sure, he's been injured, but like KingKev said, when he's healthy, he's still been pretty darn good/great. Better than nearly everyone else in the playoffs (I don't care about the regular season that much), so I can't put Lebron, AD, Kyrie, Durant ahead of him as they simply haven't played better than him these past few playoffs. His last playoff run he was playing better than Giannis IMO before he tore his ACL (Clippers may have beaten the Bucks in the finals had Kawhi not torn his ACL and if they did, that would have been 2 rings in 3 years. Freak injury that could have changed the perception of everything had it not happened. They could have even won it in 2020 if they didn't choke away the series to the Nuggets. It should have been Clippers Vs Lakers WCF, but that was a choke). Anyway, looking back at the 2021 playoffs, IMO he was completely dominating, playing one of his most efficient playoffs ever up to that point. So the last time we saw him, he was playing great up until a freak injury took him out.

He was also playing really good against the Nuggets the year before. Until he got tired, cuz of no load management in playoffs, and started playing like straight dog shit in the 2nd halfs of games 6 & 7.

Dude need absolutely perfect circumstances in regular season and playoffs, otherwise his legs peace out.


Edit PS

He was also visibly hobbled in the Finals w/ the Raps. It was just lucky that Dubs were worse off with their health.

[exstatic]

and mostly because its San Antonio. Plus being mute does seem to play in his favor

Dude,he hasn’t been a Spur in half a decade.

[Dex]

He was also playing really good against the Nuggets the year before. Until he got tired, cuz of no load management in playoffs, and started playing like straight dog shit in the 2nd halfs of games 6 & 7.

Dude need absolutely perfect circumstances in regular season and playoffs, otherwise his legs peace out.


Edit PS

He was also visibly hobbled in the Finals w/ the Raps. It was just lucky that Dubs were worse off with their health.


Dude,he hasn’t been a Spur in half a decade.

Pretty much this. Obviously Kawhi was a great talent and helped us to a ring...but all of the Spurs concerns have come to fruition. Known diva with too much outside influence, forced a trade and leaked rumors, left a team who just helped him win a championship and rolled out the red carpet, still went to LA and colluded to bring in Paul George...and then there is his health.

Years later, he is still synonymous with load management, has broken down in the playoffs, missed a year with an ACL injury, and now has to prove he can come back healthy and 100% (doubtful).

And as mentioned, he doesn't "drag the Raptors to a ring" if that GSW is healthy...probably goes out in 5, tbh

Staying with the Spurs wasn't going to greatly alter this timeline. If he had stayed he was never gonna be our next Duncan, he would just be collecting checks while sitting on the bench. But more likely he just bolts to LA either way.

[paperboy77]

Motion to move this thread to NBA Forum.

Kwa is no longer a Spur.

I second that shit

[tonight...you]

I second that shit
Thirded, but the powers that be need traffic and discussions.

I remember when we had TheGreatYacht (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43719) and dabom (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=47543) and when lefty (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=6896), our Argentine brothers and calf-tats dominated the board and things were lively.

Now... we have something else and the board is nearly dead.

Probably for the better, but dead.

[Dex]

Thirded, but the powers that be need traffic and discussions.

I remember when we had TheGreatYacht (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43719) and dabom (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=47543) and when lefty (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=6896), our Argentine brothers and calf-tats dominated the board and things were lively.

Now... we have something else and the board is nearly dead.

Probably for the better, but dead.

This board needs a new Bonner to hate on.

[tonight...you]

This board needs a new Bonner to hate on.
More than a Bonner.
Like the biggest magnet of discussion was Manu and TP and how certain posters hated against either in their ways.

Sochan is a good candidate, should he underperform for a season, or two...
But most likely not good enough with a tanking team.
They all stink, in ways.

This site is going to be about 9-10 guys talking serious, a few other enjoying a message board for what it is and the argument that ensue.

Which will get boring very quickly.


There is not much to care about right now except for the future, which means present discussion is...
Not much. Just pissing into the wind.

[Ice009]

He was also playing really good against the Nuggets the year before. Until he got tired, cuz of no load management in playoffs, and started playing like straight dog shit in the 2nd halfs of games 6 & 7.

Dude need absolutely perfect circumstances in regular season and playoffs, otherwise his legs peace out.


Edit PS

He was also visibly hobbled in the Finals w/ the Raps. It was just lucky that Dubs were worse off with their health.

Fair call on all that stuff. My main point is that until he comes back and his level of play drops even when load managing, can't say he's washed up yet as he was playing like the best player in the playoffs the last time we saw him (just cannot call someone washed up when they were at that level last time we saw them). The perception could be completely different had he have not torn his ACL and won the Championship in 2021. He could also fall off the cliff at any time, though, as like you said, it seems he needs perfect conditions with load management to succeed these days, but both the Clippers and Raptors knew that when they signed him, so they were willing to work with that for the potential return of a Championship. You're also right about the Nuggets series as I remember Kawhi being dead tired in the second half of those last two games, but also, he had to carry a huge load as his teammates weren't playing great in his first playoff run with the Clippers. PG didn't play anywhere near as well as he did the following season's playoffs.

If he does fall off a cliff, it still kind of pisses me off that the Spurs sent him to the Raptors and he got a ring out of it. Should have sent him elsewhere because if he didn't ring and breaks down completely, Spurs would have been proven right 100%. That ring with the Raptors gives him more leeway with casual fans and teams that could sign him if he wears out his welcome with the Clippers.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Pretty much this. Obviously Kawhi was a great talent and helped us to a ring...but all of the Spurs concerns have come to fruition. Known diva with too much outside influence, forced a trade and leaked rumors, left a team who just helped him win a championship and rolled out the red carpet, still went to LA and colluded to bring in Paul George...and then there is his health.

Years later, he is still synonymous with load management, has broken down in the playoffs, missed a year with an ACL injury, and now has to prove he can come back healthy and 100% (doubtful).

And as mentioned, he doesn't "drag the Raptors to a ring" if that GSW is healthy...probably goes out in 5, tbh

Staying with the Spurs wasn't going to greatly alter this timeline. If he had stayed he was never gonna be our next Duncan, he would just be collecting checks while sitting on the bench. But more likely he just bolts to LA either way.

He's definitely a guy whose NBA journey benefited from some good fortune along the way. On the Spurs he was able to hone his game for several years playing alongside 3 hall-of-famers, and then got his first Finals MVP as essentially the team's 4th option (not taking anything away from his incredible play in that series of course). GSW would have crushed the Raps had they been remotely healthy, giving Kawhi Finals MVP #2. Those Finals MVPs cemented his legacy.

His injury prone nature is just going to get worse as he ages. The Clips have paid him a whole lot of money to sit on the sidelines. If he was here folks would be cursing him at every opportunity. Not sure SA has another title even if he'd stayed.

[Mugen]

If he rings though...would have made him all his bullshit worth it for the Clippers tbh :lol

[JuneJive]

Kawhi on how different it is returning off a long layoff this season compared to his comeback with Toronto. He says his rehab process is “very different” this time than in San Antonio before Toronto trade because of “having the team behind my back… they want what’s best for me.”
via Youngmisuk


Wasn't there something about the whole thing that made the Spurs not so innocent after all. timvp has enough time passed for the story to come out? who was the mystery man?

[Joseph Kony]

:lol still hung up on the autist. move on already

[tonight...you]

Kawhi on how different it is returning off a long layoff this season compared to his comeback with Toronto. He says his rehab process is “very different” this time than in San Antonio before Toronto trade because of “having the team behind my back… they want what’s best for me.”
via Youngmisuk


Wasn't there something about the whole thing that made the Spurs not so innocent after all. timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) has enough time passed for the story to come out? who was the mystery man?
The Mystery Man was the city of Los Angeles and his tio.

[KingKev]

PATFO doesn’t make mistakes. Lock this thread.

[exstatic]

Fuck Kawhi.

[tbdog]

What a cunt

[John B]

Ka-Who?

[slick'81]

Hes still shitting on us

[MultiTroll]

Wasn't there something about the whole thing that made the Spurs not so innocent after all. timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) has enough time passed for the story to come out? who was the mystery man?

[kht]

SPURS AND POP LITERALLY WANTED TO DECLARE HIM OUT FOR THE SEASON to protect him from the media... you really think a lifelong professional like Manu would throw a guy, a clear #1 in Kawhi, under the bus unless Kawhi was doing some shady shit that got on people's last nerve?

[exstatic]

Hes still shitting on us

And he still can’t wipe.

[SupremeGuy]

Fuck why are we still on this?

TP talking shit and then PATFO not defending him is what led to his departure. His group whispering in his ear didn't help but I think TP's comments convinced him that the team didn't have his back.

[exstatic]

Fuck why are we still on this?

TP talking shit and then PATFO not defending him is what led to his departure. His group whispering in his ear didn't help but I think TP's comments convinced him that the team didn't have his back.

It started long before that. It also wasn’t TP, it was LA. He was always going there, from the moment he started faking his injury extent, to when he ran away to NY. That was months before TP.

[ambchang]

Haha. Left Toronto after a ring with his uncle asking for unreasonable and illegal shit but he went to LA because the team is good to him.

[daslicer]

Fuck why are we still on this?

TP talking shit and then PATFO not defending him is what led to his departure. His group whispering in his ear didn't help but I think TP's comments convinced him that the team didn't have his back.

Wow you are really that retarded. He wanted to go to LA way before TP said anything. He had sat out for several months before TP opened his mouth with a bogus injury. He's a star player if he was truly offended by what TP said he could have gotten him traded and stayed but he didn't want to stay.

[Leetonidas]

the fact that he left Toronto where they treated him like royalty and bent over backwards to give him special treatment after winning a ring should tell you all you need to know. Dude was always leaving SA, he just accelerated his departure

[daslicer]

The spurs biggest mistake was not trading him immediately when he started pulling this stunt. They should have traded him around December of 2017 instead of wanting until the summer of '18 which gave him time to sabotage his value. They also should have done the rebuild immediately in the summer of '18 instead of committing the next several years to being a low playoff seed to borderline playoff team. They didn't do it because of Pop's massive ego of wanting to chase the all-time coaches win record but I have to say the last 4 years were a complete waste that could have gone into rebuilding.

[manufan10]

Was TP's comments before or after Nephew hid from the team in NY?

[lefty]

744 pages


Leonard is living RENT FREE here :lmao

[Rocalcio]

:lol still hung up on the autist. move on already

Actually it looks like it’s him who can’t move on, he’s the one who shitted on the Spurs again.

[daslicer]

Was TP's comments before or after Nephew hid from the team in NY?

It was after he hid in NY. It was in March 2018 when he made those comments.

[JuneJive]

Imagine, HOTS being responsible...

[R. DeMurre]

:lol In the year 2072, there will be old senile men in San Antonio nursing homes, foaming at the mouth, and young nurses asking co-workers, "who the hell is Kawhi?"

[R. DeMurre]

This will be an unpopular opinion, but so be it. The guy grew up in L.A., his childhood wasn't easy, his father was murdered, and he's almost certainly somewhere on the autism spectrum with Asperger's Syndrome... it's not all that shocking that he wanted to return to the familiarity of home. The fact that he didn't feel as close as some others did to an elderly white coach with a military background, a caustic wit, and an obsession with $2000 bottles of french red wine from the Bordeaux region just doesn't seem that hard to believe. Did he handle it well with deft diplomacy? No... most people with Asperger's don't handle social awkwardness well. It's kind of a given considering the specific circumstances.

[daslicer]

This will be an unpopular opinion, but so be it. The guy grew up in L.A., his childhood wasn't easy, his father was murdered, and he's almost certainly somewhere on the autism spectrum with Asperger's Syndrome... it's not all that shocking that he wanted to return to the familiarity of home. The fact that he didn't feel as close as some others did to an elderly white coach with a military background, a caustic wit, and an obsession with $2000 bottles of french red wine from the Bordeaux region just doesn't seem that hard to believe. Did he handle it well with deft diplomacy? No... most people with Asperger's don't handle social awkwardness well. It's kind of a given considering the specific circumstances.

Agreed I got over him leaving after the spring of 2021. I felt after he tore his ACL that he's already been embarrassed the last few years. Especially the choke job in the bubble against the Nuggets.

[KingKev]

It stilllllll hurts.

I’m over Kawhi, I actually still enjoy watching him play when healthy. Big when, but still.

Maybe in time i’ll forgive PATFO for the next 4 years of fuckery that ensued after he went dipshit on us.

[poopbox]

Who cares. He was always going to leave. And if he hadn't we would have had to supermax him. With his injury history we might be in even worse shape with him now. Imagine having a trash team AND you paying a guy who can't play back to back's 40 + million a year.

[RC_Drunkford]

The spurs biggest mistake was not trading him immediately when he started pulling this stunt. They should have traded him around December of 2017 instead of wanting until the summer of '18 which gave him time to sabotage his value. They also should have done the rebuild immediately in the summer of '18 instead of committing the next several years to being a low playoff seed to borderline playoff team. They didn't do it because of Pop's massive ego of wanting to chase the all-time coaches win record but I have to say the last 4 years were a complete waste that could have gone into rebuilding.

totally agree with that assessment

[K...]

totally agree with that assessment

So knowing how close Duncan was to signing with Orlando, you would trade him prior to that? Because the odds of duncan bolting were as high as kawhi forgiving whatever happened and taking the supermax.

[daslicer]

So knowing how close Duncan was to signing with Orlando, you would trade him prior to that? Because the odds of duncan bolting were as high as kawhi forgiving whatever happened and taking the supermax.

Stupid comparison. Duncan didn't sit out a year before free agency. He was rational and was willing to keep contact open. Kawhi wasn't willing to do that. He cut off contact the moment he went to NYC.

[RC_Drunkford]

So knowing how close Duncan was to signing with Orlando, you would trade him prior to that? Because the odds of duncan bolting were as high as kawhi forgiving whatever happened and taking the supermax.

:lmao yeah right, Duncan was hiding in NY with his uncle

[K...]

:lmao yeah right, Duncan was hiding in NY with his uncle

Correct he was on a plane to Orlando ready to play with Grant Hill. It was over for the spurs. Better to get a pick off duncan, for fuck sake we let him play out the contract. Absolute clown front office. You can't play favorites as a small market team.

I'm obv joking, in real life duncan should ghosted that whore wife and feasted on Orlando pussy . Yeah grant hill sucked but Orlando gets enough free.agent support to get him to the HOF in the weaker east. Easily correct hindsight choice

[TD 21]

This will be an unpopular opinion, but so be it. The guy grew up in L.A., his childhood wasn't easy, his father was murdered, and he's almost certainly somewhere on the autism spectrum with Asperger's Syndrome... it's not all that shocking that he wanted to return to the familiarity of home. The fact that he didn't feel as close as some others did to an elderly white coach with a military background, a caustic wit, and an obsession with $2000 bottles of french red wine from the Bordeaux region just doesn't seem that hard to believe. Did he handle it well with deft diplomacy? No... most people with Asperger's don't handle social awkwardness well. It's kind of a given considering the specific circumstances.

I'm so tired of this excuse.

First, it's no longer referred to as "Asperger's Syndrome" as that was deemed offensive, so it's now just considered "on the spectrum".

Second, many with autism, particularly of the high functioning variety, aren't mentally deficient. On the contrary, they're often exceptionally intelligent in certain ways, they just see the world differently and can be socially awkward.

It's disparaging to those people to pretend that explains his actions.



Agreed I got over him leaving after the spring of 2021. I felt after he tore his ACL that he's already been embarrassed the last few years. Especially the choke job in the bubble against the Nuggets.

This will be an unpopular opinion, but so be it. I hope he suffers a career ending injury which in this day and age virtually guarantees it being something that will affect his qualify of life going forward.

[Sugus]

Correct he was on a plane to Orlando ready to play with Grant Hill. It was over for the spurs. Better to get a pick off duncan, for fuck sake we let him play out the contract. Absolute clown front office. You can't play favorites as a small market team.

I'm obv joking, in real life duncan should ghosted that whore wife and feasted on Orlando pussy . Yeah grant hill sucked but Orlando gets enough free.agent support to get him to the HOF in the weaker east. Easily correct hindsight choice

You're much more spot-on than most here would like to admit. Terribly easy to judge not trading Duncan, and not trading Kawhi, with Monday's newspaper in your hands (is that a saying in English too?).

Also, the conversations and optics regarding disgruntled stars and how teams should manage them has changed exponentially in the last few years, ironically with Nephew's spurning at the blazing front. It's all too easy now to ship out your star, get 6 picks in return, and be halfway over a rebuild in an off-season. That wasn't the case at the time, and especially not so given Nephew's injury/condition, and the mystery that surrounded it, had teams low-balling offers to the Spurs.

[daslicer]

This will be an unpopular opinion, but so be it. I hope he suffers a career ending injury which in this day and age virtually guarantees it being something that will affect his qualify of life going forward.

I definitely understand where you are coming from. I'm just not emotionally invested in wasting my time hating him. I will never respect him or his family, but I just don't care about him going forward.

[TD 21]

I definitely understand where you are coming from. I'm just not emotionally invested in wasting my time hating him. I will never respect him or his family, but I just don't care about him going forward.

It takes no time or energy away from me to wish that on him.

I honestly don't even pay attention to anything regarding him outside of this board and wouldn't comment here if not for the overt mythologizing and/or excuses that are constantly made for him.

[Proxy]

I know timvp pointed to there being fault on both sides, but the level of intensity SA played when Nephew returned, and TD's high praise for the medical staff in his HoF speech speaks volumes tbh

[Extra Stout]

Correct he was on a plane to Orlando ready to play with Grant Hill. It was over for the spurs. Better to get a pick off duncan, for fuck sake we let him play out the contract. Absolute clown front office. You can't play favorites as a small market team.

I'm obv joking, in real life duncan should ghosted that whore wife and feasted on Orlando pussy . Yeah grant hill sucked but Orlando gets enough free.agent support to get him to the HOF in the weaker east. Easily correct hindsight choice
It’s not apples to apples. Duncan was becoming an unrestricted free agent after a 3-year rookie contract according to the rules of 20 years ago. Kawhi ghosted his team with several years left on his contract. I understand the team’s desire to try to reconcile with him back then, though in retrospect Boston’s alleged offer of Tatum and Brown in February would have been the way to go.

[Maddog]

It’s not apples to apples. Duncan was becoming an unrestricted free agent after a 3-year rookie contract according to the rules of 20 years ago. Kawhi ghosted his team with several years left on his contract. I understand the team’s desire to try to reconcile with him back then, though in retrospect Boston’s alleged offer of Tatum and Brown in February would have been the way to go.


The only offer for Nephew with any significant veracity was Tobias Harris and LAC two firsts.
Which in retrospect may have been inferior to what they got. Tobias was an expiring and probably not a lot of trade value.


Stars leave small markets all the time and historically have even forced trades (see Kareem and Chamberlin). The Spurs got a title out of nephew and now have a lot of assets-
Time to move on.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Time to move on.
lol
They will whine about it for another 20 years.