What role does not offering the supermax have in this?

[FkLA]

Not trying to defend Kawhitter obviously, but we can't deny that things completely changed after Woj reported that the Spurs were far from offering the supermax. Even their bottom bitch Jabari was reporting that "tensions had cooled" and was basically suggesting that an extension was imminent prior to the Woj report.

[SpursDynasty85]

Kawhi's camp probably thought they played it well enough to get the super max and Buford and Pop laughed in their face.

[Dingle Barry]

Seems like he wanted out, but would stay if they gave him the 218 million right now. Even he probably doesn't trust his bum ass quad, so any talk of proving his fitness was a non-starter.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Honestly, if he's not 100% exactly the player he was before the injury or better, we dodged a bullet.

[Marcus Bryant]

Seems like an overreaction to jump to your last card with the trade demand this early.

But expecting the supermax after the last few months? Maybe if Kawhi phased out his uncle they could get there by October?

Still, at some point this falls on Leonard. He chose not to play. He's not a functional retard he's a grown ass man.

[Marcus Bryant]

Let's not forget that between Leonard's group, ESPN, and the Lakers that last weekend was supposed to be the coup de grace, the trade demand leaked when Pop was supposed to meet with Leonard in Manhattan. Oh, and Jeannie Buss with the cryptic tweet geo-stamped in NYC.

I think this ends with Leonard being moved to Milwaukee or Charlotte. Too much dumbass drama and collusion going on. Those teams are desperate enough to take the chance that Leonard might re-sign or that they could flip him for something better.

The point of no return has been reached. Still frankly a mystery how it ended up here, but you can't escape the conclusion that this is what Leonard wanted.

[coachmac87]

Let's not forget that between Leonard's group, ESPN, and the Lakers that last weekend was supposed to be the coup de grace, the trade demand leaked when Pop was supposed to meet with Leonard in Manhattan. Oh, and Jeannie Buss with the cryptic tweet geo-stamped in NYC.

I think this ends with Leonard being moved to Milwaukee or Charlotte. Too much dumbass drama and collusion going on. Those teams are desperate enough to take the chance that Leonard might re-sign or that they could flip him for something better.

The point of no return has been reached. Still frankly a mystery how it ended up here, but you can't escape the conclusion that this is what Leonard wanted.


What was the cryptic tweet?

[KimmyGib]

It's not surprising the Spurs were far from offering supermax at the time woj reported it, considering everything. The bigger mystery in my mind is what role the supermax played earlier on, with Kawhi sitting out the entire second half of the season.

[Marcus Bryant]

Seems like he wanted out, but would stay if they gave him the 218 million right now. Even he probably doesn't trust his bum ass quad, so any talk of proving his fitness was a non-starter.

Feels like panic from Leonard's camp. After spending last season basically spreading the idea that the Spurs screwed up his health and avoiding playing, now it's give us the supermax! But trade me to LA first!

[FkLA]

It's just weird though how everything seemed patched up before that. Even after the trade demand both Woj and Jabari kept stating that "it could still be worked out" and that they wouldn't be surprised if it did. I took that as them saying that if the supermax is offered, he signs.

Was Pop expecting a hometown discount even before this shit unfolded or would he have had no problem offering it if Kawhi repeated his 16-17 season? I'm also wondering if Kawhi's group wanted their cake and to eat it too. Maybe they wanted to cash out (hence why they made it seem like the relationship was well on it's way to being repaired) and then demand a trade a year later.

[sasaint]

Feels like panic from Leonard's camp. After spending last season basically spreading the idea that the Spurs screwed up his health and avoiding playing, now it's give us the supermax! But trade me to LA first!

Don't forget that,"He's 100%"

[Mugen]

Honestly, Kawhi probably just needed to show up to the Pop meeting, give some lip service about how dedicated he is to the team and the Spurs likely offer the supermax.

If their end goal was just end up with a supermax, they couldn't have gone about it in a stupider fashion. But, I think there is definitely some truth to Kawhi wanting to play in LA.

[Dingle Barry]

Honestly, Kawhi probably just needed to show up to the Pop meeting, give some lip service about how dedicated he is to the team and the Spurs likely offer the supermax.

If their end goal was just end up with a supermax, they couldn't have gone about it in a stupider fashion. But, I think there is definitely some truth to Kawhi wanting to play in LA.

I could see that. Could also see PATFO wanting to see some demonstration of good faith and health from him first.

[Marcus Bryant]

The funny thing is that I am sure the Spurs already had reservations about giving Leonard the supermax and with Pop nearing the end of his coaching career were probably thinking that this would be a good time for a rebuild. Moving Leonard for a package of picks and young players would jump start that process.

Now they have all the cover they'd ever need with the fanbase to do just that.

[Mr. Body]

Why the fuck does the supermax exist in the first place?

[weebo]

Chicken shit doesn't deserve the supermax--the supermax is reserved for guys that actually play

[Mugen]

The funny thing is that I am sure the Spurs already had reservations about giving Leonard the supermax and with Pop nearing the end of his coaching career were probably thinking that this would be a good time for a rebuild. Moving Leonard for a package of picks and young players would jump start that process.

Now they have all the cover they'd ever need with the fanbase to do just that.

Are you talking about reservations after the shit he pulled this season or before? Because if they had reservations before he pulled all this bullshit then that would have been retarded as hell.

[baseline bum]

Why the fuck does the supermax exist in the first place?

To give elite players more incentive to stay in small markets.

[Marcus Bryant]

Why the fuck does the supermax exist in the first place?

In theory to help smaller market teams retain great players and of course greater revenue share for those players.

[SpurPadre]

Fuck Fredo Leonard, tbh.

[spurs50_]

For Elite players who don't have a blood sucking Uncle

[FkLA]

I'm thinking PATFO put that "far from offering the supermax" info out there to draw a line of where negotiations would start and Kawhi's group is so incompetent that they took it as a hostile act and decided to press the nuclear button.

I mean pound for pound (no pun intended) SA doesn't stack up to LA, then you add the fact that that is home for him and I don't really blame him for preferring LA. The supermax was always supposed to be our trump card. Was it not offered because Kawhi's incompetent group prematurely pressed the nuclear button or because Pop was always expecting a hometown discount?

[sasaint]

Honestly, Kawhi probably just needed to show up to the Pop meeting, give some lip service about how dedicated he is to the team and the Spurs likely offer the supermax.

If their end goal was just end up with a supermax, they couldn't have gone about it in a stupider fashion. But, I think there is definitely some truth to Kawhi wanting to play in LA.

There is room between what another team could offer and the supermax. I think that was always PATFO's targeted landing area - not the full supermax. Just based on their history.

[Spurs9]

Why would they offer it to a dude who was essentially out all season without a discussion first?

[Marcus Bryant]

I'm thinking PATFO put that "far from offering the supermax" info out there to draw a line of where negotiations would start and Kawhi's group is so incompetent that they took it as a hostile act and decided to press the nuclear button.

I mean pound for pound (no pun intended) SA doesn't stack up to LA, then you add the fact that that is home for him and I don't really blame him for preferring LA. The supermax was always supposed to be our trump card. Was it not offered because Kawhi's incompetent group prematurely pressed the nuclear button or because Pop was always expecting a hometown discount?

With this phantom injury would the Spurs want to be on the hook for six more seasons and $240 mil? I'm thinking there's some resistance from the people who sign the checks.

[Mugen]

There is room between what another team could offer and the supermax. I think that was always PATFO's targeted landing area - not the full supermax. Just based on their history.

Sure, that'd be great. But if Kawhi said nah I want the full supermax, you pay his ass (before this bullshit season obviously).

[sasaint]

Sure, that'd be great. But if Kawhi said nah I want the full supermax, you pay his ass (before this bullshit season obviously).

Based on PATFO's history, I don't know that they would have acquiesced. Moot point. We will never know. In fact, one of the frustrating things about the way things will apparently end up is that we will probably never know exactly what happened and what everybody's motives were for the whole last year.

[TD 21]

Honestly, Kawhi probably just needed to show up to the Pop meeting, give some lip service about how dedicated he is to the team and the Spurs likely offer the supermax.

If their end goal was just end up with a supermax, they couldn't have gone about it in a stupider fashion. But, I think there is definitely some truth to Kawhi wanting to play in LA.

:tu

I mentioned this a few days ago. That's pride/ego, though. Neither side, probably particularly Leonard's, wants to be seen as the one capitulating.

Spurs need to be the bigger man and do it. Even if they don't mean whatever clichés they spout (and why would they?), just do whatever it takes to attempt to get him signed and if it doesn't work out in the next year, they'll at least have gained virtually all of the leverage.

[BillMc]

Honestly, Kawhi probably just needed to show up to the Pop meeting, give some lip service about how dedicated he is to the team and the Spurs likely offer the supermax.

If their end goal was just end up with a supermax, they couldn't have gone about it in a stupider fashion. But, I think there is definitely some truth to Kawhi wanting to play in LA.

Spot on

[BillMc]

If the Holts were really hesitant, it's gonna be hard for Pop to go to them with a "he's committed, he's a leader, he's worth it" speech now.

[TD 21]

If the Holts were really hesitant, it's gonna be hard for Pop to go to them with a "he's committed, he's a leader, he's worth it" speech now.

I get the sense that Holt trusts Pop and Buford implicitly and will go off of their recommendation. Think their being satisfied (or at least pretending to be; I don't buy that this can truly be fixed over conversations in the off season) would take precedent.




After the events of the last 9-10 months, you would have a very hard time convincing me to pay $219MM of my money to Kawhi.

Pay it and gain control of the process or don't, lose a superstar and good luck finding one anytime soon. Some teams haven't had one in the last 15, 20, 25 or more years.

[sasaint]

If the Holts were really hesitant, it's gonna be hard for Pop to go to them with a "he's committed, he's a leader, he's worth it" speech now.

After the events of the last 9-10 months, you would have a very hard time convincing me to pay $219MM of my money to Kawhi.

[John B]

Would Kawhi consider discount if LeBron is coming? Maybe wait until July 1st?

[sasaint]

Would Kawhi consider discount if LeBron is coming? Maybe wait until July 1st?

LeBron ain't coming to SA.

[sasaint]

I get the sense that Holt trusts Pop and Buford implicitly and will go off of their recommendation. Think their being satisfied (or at least pretending to be; I don't buy that this can truly be fixed over conversations in the off season) would take precedent.





Pay it and gain control of the process or don't, lose a superstar and good luck finding one anytime soon. Some teams haven't had one in the last 15, 20, 25 or more years.


Your approach shifts the focus of the conversation back to the rest of the roster. I do not see the current roster as a real championship threat - especially if Rudy is bolting. And going forward, I don't know how you put together a true contender on a "Spurs payroll." The days of TD et al taking less pay in order to acquire good teammates are gone with Timmy.

[FlAVaK]

Let's not forget that between Leonard's group, ESPN, and the Lakers that last weekend was supposed to be the coup de grace, the trade demand leaked when Pop was supposed to meet with Leonard in Manhattan. Oh, and Jeannie Buss with the cryptic tweet geo-stamped in NYC.

I think this ends with Leonard being moved to Milwaukee or Charlotte. Too much dumbass drama and collusion going on. Those teams are desperate enough to take the chance that Leonard might re-sign or that they could flip him for something better.

The point of no return has been reached. Still frankly a mystery how it ended up here, but you can't escape the conclusion that this is what Leonard wanted.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DElU0PvXoAQEn7K?format=jpg

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, yeah.


Multiple league sources also told ESPN that the Spurs have grown worried that Leonard's group has an ulterior motive to fray the relationship and get Leonard traded to a larger market like Los Angeles (Leonard's hometown) or New York or Philadelphia (Robertson lives in New Jersey).

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kawhi-leonard-trade-rumors-spurs-worried-leonards-camp-has-ulterior-motive-to-force-move-to-larger-market/

[sasaint]

Well, yeah.



https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kawhi-leonard-trade-rumors-spurs-worried-leonards-camp-has-ulterior-motive-to-force-move-to-larger-market/

PATFO... sharp as ever.

[tbdog]

Leonard's talent is a supermax, every....single....day. But not showing up to work, not communicating, not attending games, not being in a timeout huddle, not doing 'NBA Cares' events, not recruiting players, and not representing the team - is IMO what makes a max player a supermax, franchise-altering player. Leonard's group cost him the supermax. If he was injured with the team, we will have him agreeing to the supermax and getting a meeting with Lebron.

[Marcus Bryant]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23366667/inside-tension-kawhi-leonard-spurs

Good overview.

[apalisoc_9]

The spurs arent dumb. They would have given Leonard the supermax easy if all this shit didnt happen.

Its hard for them now to give him the supermax because they question his committment.

[Mr. Body]

In theory to help smaller market teams retain great players and of course greater revenue share for those players.

It's just a good chance to blow your budget on a suck ass player and garrotte your future.

[cool cat]

Not playing this year is why he is not offered the supermax, again another bad call by his "group". If he played and had 3 MVP caliber years in a row he gets the Supermax hands down. He also only averages 58 games a season and his body isn't getting healthier.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Honestly, Kawhi probably just needed to show up to the Pop meeting, give some lip service about how dedicated he is to the team and the Spurs likely offer the supermax.

If their end goal was just end up with a supermax, they couldn't have gone about it in a stupider fashion. But, I think there is definitely some truth to Kawhi wanting to play in LA.

Really doubt it. Whether they thought he had a serious degenerative injury or the alternative - that he's been a snake and has been faking the severity and could have played, the red flags would have been too many to hand such a guy the biggest contract in NBA history. Besides, it's not only the FO's decision - ownership would have to approve this and I can't see them being OK with it, especially with the Holt turmoil in recent months/year.

My guess is their stance was "play next season, prove you're healthy qualify for the supermax again and you'll get it", which was a big no no for Kawhi's group and they went the trade route. They don't seem to have a clear plan and are playing it really amateurish. Imagine if posters on a message board are so anxious and angry how the FO would be feeling about the whole thing.

[TD 21]

Your approach shifts the focus of the conversation back to the rest of the roster. I do not see the current roster as a real championship threat - especially if Rudy is bolting. And going forward, I don't know how you put together a true contender on a "Spurs payroll." The days of TD et al taking less pay in order to acquire good teammates are gone with Timmy.

The current roster isn't a real championship contender and they'd be hard pressed to become one with Leonard. But, if your team starts with a superstar, there's at least a plausible path to becoming one. If your're the Horford Hawks, Gasol Grizzlies, George Pacers, Lowry Raptors, etc., no matter what you do, your ceiling is capped a tier below that.

[BSfromTX]

Not trying to defend Kawhitter obviously, but we can't deny that things completely changed after Woj reported that the Spurs were far from offering the supermax. Even their bottom bitch Jabari was reporting that "tensions had cooled" and was basically suggesting that an extension was imminent prior to the Woj report.


Everything, IF i had to guess. I'm guessing Kawhi got wind last summer that the spurs were looking to see if he would take less in order to stay flexible and sign future players. I don't think he has ever fully embraced being a Spur and this was all he and his camp needed to start this whole circus.

[DAF86]

If Kawhi's camp was so desperate to sign the supermax, it might mean that Kawhi's quad is fucked for good and they only said it's 100% to get teams to trade for him (or get the supermax offer from Spurs).

[sasaint]

The current roster isn't a real championship contender and they'd be hard pressed to become one with Leonard. But, if your team starts with a superstar, there's at least a plausible path to becoming one. If your're the Horford Hawks, Gasol Grizzlies, George Pacers, Lowry Raptors, etc., no matter what you do, your ceiling is capped a tier below that.

The common threads I see are not necessarily superstar vs. non-superstar but big contracts in small markets.

[sasaint]

Everything, IF i had to guess. I'm guessing Kawhi got wind last summer that the spurs were looking to see if he would take less in order to stay flexible and sign future players. I don't think he has ever fully embraced being a Spur and this was all he and his camp needed to start this whole circus.


I wouldn't want to leave millions of dollars on the table so that PATFO could give it to the likes of Pau and Patty, either. PATFO's recent track record would reinforce Kawhi's skepticism/mistrust. I personally believe (without any sauces) that Kawhi was less enamored with the mantle of Timmy being thrust upon him. He has never been face-of-the-franchise material and never will be.

[spurraider21]

dont really see how the supermax "helps" small market teams. seems like the supermax mainly helps teams that were willing to exceed the salary cap, as the supermax just allows them to exceed it even more. small market teams trying to play somewhere near the cap wont be able to field a roster if with a supermax contract clogging them up

[bluebellmaniac]

Seems like an overreaction to jump to your last card with the trade demand this early.

But expecting the supermax after the last few months? Maybe if Kawhi phased out his uncle they could get there by October?

Still, at some point this falls on Leonard. He chose not to play. He's not a functional retard he's a grown ass man.


Why can't he be both?

[Spurs4#5]

I wonder if pop went to New York not to meet with Leonard but to meet with the doctors that are treating him and after he found out that he wasn’t 100% still they came back with they’re not offering the Supermax then Leonard’s camp comes out and says we’re 100% and want a trade. Seems logical