Would Leonard Be The Player He Is Without The Spurs System?

[TekXX]

I'm curious what everyone thinks. I think he owes alot to the Spurs.

[look_at_g_shred]

Stop

[RD2191]

Whose alt is this?

[phxspurfan]

wgaf about him and his future in LA

[Play Boban]

He’d be playing in China tbh. Maybe in jail after stealing shoes though tbh......

[HarlemHeat37]

What system? What year is this?:lol

[spurraider21]

yes. his development might not have been the same though

[ducks]

He would not without chip
And spurs work ethic

[vander]

Spurs allowed him to be introverted/silent/etc, with another team he might have had this mental breakdown earlier

[james evans]

Mfs still mad haha

[daslicer]

You have to give him credit for his work ethic but if he was drafted by any other team he doesn't end up the player that he would become. A lot of coaches would have been lazy to pencil him in as a Tony Allen type of player and not try to develop his offensive game.

[gospursgojas]

China

[venitian navigator]

He had qualiyies but also flaws...otherwise nthere would have been no explanation on why multiple teams passed him till n° 15...expecially after being targeted as one of the best players in most of the mock drafts just days before the draft.
That means that a lot of teams scouted him deeply and went to the conclusion that his flaws were evident and probably too difficult to fix.
That means that a lot of teams have considered him not worth of spending time on his development...
This is obviious if you consider the price we had to pay for him, that has been high just because of sentimental reasons (Hill was Pop favourite) but not because of real player value reasons...and at the time the trade has been seen as legitimate by everyone (remember the Pacers had to add the rights of an early second draft choice - we called Bertans - and the rights of Lorbek, that was considered a good part of the trade, for having Hill).
I can tell you I don't like the players attitude of today "what have you done for me lately..."...Kiwi and his staff should value the dedication the team has had for his development...obviously he was a good materia and had the right will to succeed, but no way for him to succeed at this level if not for the confidence and nurturing the team had in and for him. EWe're talking about a 15th draft choice becaming a top three player in the league.
And not only this.
The dedication to the player has been evidenced by the behavior of the whole organization in his favor...
They elected him as the franchise when one of the best players ever was still playing in the same team...and that same player, in a typical spurs class act, shared this process of nomination him the new face of the franchise.
All the Spurs did has been make of him a real star and develop him as a player and as a man, in the best possible path a human being can have...

That situation, in his entire nature, is very, very peculiar...and the trying of his side to behave like the organization didn't care enough of him is childish...so childish that can not be considered natural, but obviously suspected of being the fruit of a bad advice. As has been his behavior in refusing to clarify publicly his position health wise, for helth could have been the only reason he was not playing for practically the whole season, and we are talking of a play ofs season.
And I don't even wanna talk about the word "betrayed" that has filtered from his environment...
That's not only incredible and unbelievable if referred to the Spurs organization, but also a lame try to defense in advance, 'cause the whole behavior potentially suggested to him by his "group" is more than easily susceptible to be called a a betrayal and fruit of a fraud...like the last clue (the stupid, time wise, advise from the Lakers ownership to all the franchise to avoid tampering behaviors...like if tampering previously exercised wasn't tampering).

[John B]

Nope :wakeup

[alpha_HaZE]

Hah, probably better!

[BillMc]

I'm curious what everyone thinks. I think he owes alot to the Spurs.

Are you RC? Or Kevin Durant?

[r0drig0lac]

What system? What year is this?:lol

[Atl Spur]

Some of you dudes sound bitter; if the dude leaves that’s his biz! Spurs will go on......

[acoelho1]

He will probably be MVP next year no matter which team he goes to, which is why I want him back.

[MoSpur02]

Yes he would be the same. He puts in the work. That's why he has improved so much.

[SpursDynasty85]

No one has a crystal ball. Both organization and player can thank each other. That is all.

[bdictjames]

Really doubt it. He was in a team with three future Hall-of-Famers. Whoever goes into the Spurs has a load of shoulders on their hands. Leonard wanted to be great, which is good for him, but I doubt he'd be where he is now without being surrounded by a Hall-of-Fame coach and a spectacular cast (especially that 2014 team).

[YGWHI]

Really doubt it. He was in a team with three future Hall-of-Famers. Whoever goes into the Spurs has a load of shoulders on their hands. Leonard wanted to be great, which is good for him, but I doubt he'd be where he is now without being surrounded by a Hall-of-Fame coach and a spectacular cast (especially that 2014 team).

Danny Green, Kyle Anderson, Richard Jefferson, SJax...Many wings had Pop as coach and the Big3 as teammates.

I wonder why any of those guys weren't MVP candidates...

[TheGreatYacht]

Chip and det system doing a lot for Fathead :lol

[YGWHI]

He would not without chip
And spurs work ethic

Well, Chip is with Kyle Anderson and DJ Murray too. I wonder why they can't shoot yet...

What's about Kawhi's work ethic? Or his talent? I guess you can work 24/7 and won't play like him.

Kawhi's talent is so underrated by most Spurs' fans...I wonder why they are mad at him for leaving if they never knew the player they had.

[YGWHI]

No one has a crystal ball. Both organization and player can thank each other. That is all.
Exactly :tu

[itzsoweezee]

Hell no. Could you imagine any other team develop and shelter and give major playing roles to a player that is basically a mute and doesn't interact with his teammates?

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

a load of shoulders on their hands.

https://i1.wp.com/media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/bcf.png

[cutewizard]

:bobo

[TheGreatYacht]

Kawhi saved PATFO from getting donkey fucked by the Suns and Grizzlies year in year out. Never forget that, Spurmfan.

[james evans]

If Leonard is this bad of a player, then why are most of you mad that he’s leaving?

[duncan2k5]

You have to give him credit for his work ethic but if he was drafted by any other team he doesn't end up the player that he would become. A lot of coaches would have been lazy to pencil him in as a Tony Allen type of player and not try to develop his offensive game.

We need to stop this... Let's not act like other teams don't have stars that were drafted in the teens... Spurs aren't special... Give Kawhi credit... Or else we would be pumping out superstars every year

[BSfromTX]

I do think he has benefited from the system in a lot of ways... that being said, the system might actually restrict him from being what he wants to be and maybe that’s a better version?

What you could argue is that kawhi most likely would not have been the same player had he gone to one of the more dysfunctional organizations

[daslicer]

We need to stop this... Let's not act like other teams don't have stars that were drafted in the teens... Spurs aren't special... Give Kawhi credit... Or else we would be pumping out superstars every year

They are guys like Lebron,Duncan,Shaq who I believe would have been great regardless where they played but don't act like Kawhi is like those guys in the sense he would have been great wherever he went. Let's not act stupid to deny that he didn't have flaws coming in. He had a broken jumpshot, and a very limited offensive game. His strength was that he was a great defensive player which is why the Spurs originally drafted him and why a lot of a teams passed on him due to only having that skill set. Spurs helped him fix his jump shot and then worked with him to develop an offensive game.

I remember hearing a story from Matt Barnes a few years ago in which he stated that while in Philadelphia he would work on his jump shot a lot after practice. One day Mo Cheeks who was his coach came up to him and said "I don't know why you are working on your shot because I'm never going to allow you to take those shots so don't waste your time practicing them." Most coaches believe it or not usually are not willing to work with a player to develop more skills or give a player an opportunity to do something out of their normal skill set. Spurs did both for Kawhi.

Here is where I give Kawhi credit which is he had the work ethic that allowed him to get better along with talent to become a great player. If he was drafted by a bad organization like the Hornets I do believe he turns out to be a good player but I doubt he's an MVP caliber player. Coaching makes a huge difference for players with raw talent. I believe for example Batum had he been drafted by the Spurs probably would have been a superstar instead of just at best a borderline all-star.

[Thomas82]

They are guys like Lebron,Duncan,Shaq who I believe would have been great regardless where they played but don't act like Kawhi is like those guys in the sense he would have been great wherever he went. Let's not act stupid to deny that he didn't have flaws coming in. He had a broken jumpshot, and a very limited offensive game. His strength was that he was a great defensive player which is why the Spurs originally drafted him and why a lot of a teams passed on him due to only having that skill set. Spurs helped him fix his jump shot and then worked with him to develop an offensive game.

I remember hearing a story from Matt Barnes a few years ago in which he stated that while in Philadelphia he would work on his jump shot a lot after practice. One day Mo Cheeks who was his coach came up to him and said "I don't know why you are working on your shot because I'm never going to allow you to take those shots so don't waste your time practicing them." Most coaches believe it or not usually are not willing to work with a player to develop more skills or give a player an opportunity to do something out of their normal skill set. Spurs did both for Kawhi.

Here is where I give Kawhi credit which is he had the work ethic that allowed him to get better along with talent to become a great player. If he was drafted by a bad organization like the Hornets I do believe he turns out to be a good player but I doubt he's an MVP caliber player. Coaching makes a huge difference for players with raw talent. I believe for example Batum had he been drafted by the Spurs probably would have been a superstar instead of just at best a borderline all-star.

+1

[dbestpro]

I do not think he would become the player he is without Chip.

[r0drig0lac]

They are guys like Lebron,Duncan,Shaq who I believe would have been great regardless where they played but don't act like Kawhi is like those guys in the sense he would have been great wherever he went. Let's not act stupid to deny that he didn't have flaws coming in. He had a broken jumpshot, and a very limited offensive game. His strength was that he was a great defensive player which is why the Spurs originally drafted him and why a lot of a teams passed on him due to only having that skill set. Spurs helped him fix his jump shot and then worked with him to develop an offensive game.

I remember hearing a story from Matt Barnes a few years ago in which he stated that while in Philadelphia he would work on his jump shot a lot after practice. One day Mo Cheeks who was his coach came up to him and said "I don't know why you are working on your shot because I'm never going to allow you to take those shots so don't waste your time practicing them." Most coaches believe it or not usually are not willing to work with a player to develop more skills or give a player an opportunity to do something out of their normal skill set. Spurs did both for Kawhi.

Here is where I give Kawhi credit which is he had the work ethic that allowed him to get better along with talent to become a great player. If he was drafted by a bad organization like the Hornets I do believe he turns out to be a good player but I doubt he's an MVP caliber player. Coaching makes a huge difference for players with raw talent. I believe for example Batum had he been drafted by the Spurs probably would have been a superstar instead of just at best a borderline all-star.

the only thing certain about this is that Mo Cheeks is an idiot

[Pako]

They are guys like Lebron,Duncan,Shaq who I believe would have been great regardless where they played but don't act like Kawhi is like those guys in the sense he would have been great wherever he went. Let's not act stupid to deny that he didn't have flaws coming in. He had a broken jumpshot, and a very limited offensive game. His strength was that he was a great defensive player which is why the Spurs originally drafted him and why a lot of a teams passed on him due to only having that skill set. Spurs helped him fix his jump shot and then worked with him to develop an offensive game.

I remember hearing a story from Matt Barnes a few years ago in which he stated that while in Philadelphia he would work on his jump shot a lot after practice. One day Mo Cheeks who was his coach came up to him and said "I don't know why you are working on your shot because I'm never going to allow you to take those shots so don't waste your time practicing them." Most coaches believe it or not usually are not willing to work with a player to develop more skills or give a player an opportunity to do something out of their normal skill set. Spurs did both for Kawhi.

Here is where I give Kawhi credit which is he had the work ethic that allowed him to get better along with talent to become a great player. If he was drafted by a bad organization like the Hornets I do believe he turns out to be a good player but I doubt he's an MVP caliber player. Coaching makes a huge difference for players with raw talent. I believe for example Batum had he been drafted by the Spurs probably would have been a superstar instead of just at best a borderline all-star.

This. Alot of people here believe that Kiwi was destined to be great but they do not realize Kiwi was able to become who he is because of the investment made by the Spurs. If he was not traded by Pacers, I doubt that he will reach his current standing right now.

[bdictjames]

Danny Green, Kyle Anderson, Richard Jefferson, SJax...Many wings had Pop as coach and the Big3 as teammates.

I wonder why any of those guys weren't MVP candidates...
Those guys had a higher ceiling. Well.. RJ and Jax already were in the league for a while before they were a Spur, and they had their skillsets already. I don't think Pop used RJ effectively, and Jax certainly did his role in San Antonio.

Danny Green was on his way out of the league and I don't think, as much as I like Kyle, he'd stay in the league very long if not for San Antonio because of his footspeed. Kawhi just had a higher ceiling because he has much more athleticism, more upside, and admittedly, a better work ethic. But it's all about upside. I don't doubt that the Spurs made Green and Anderson very serviceable players in the league either. But the Spurs definitely helped bring Kawhi's star potential, I doubt another team (only probably the Warriors) would have the talent to develop players the way Pop and his staff has.

[Mikeanaro]

Probably not, he had Bruce Bowen and Cheap during training, then had Manu Duncan and others to help him on court, now we will see how he handles 40 minutes per night.
My bet is he will explode.

[DMC]

"You know who's fackin' great? Jahnny Damon... fackin' love that guy" -Boston fan in 2004

"Jahnny Damon going to the Yankees? Guy's a bum, fack that clown" -Same Boston fan in 2006

[MultiTroll]

Depends on which other team(s) he is on.

Obviously being able to play with Timmy Dunkar was huge.

Beyond that, not so much.

[james evans]

Yea, Anderson and Green will be in the MVP race soon.

[duncan2k5]

They are guys like Lebron,Duncan,Shaq who I believe would have been great regardless where they played but don't act like Kawhi is like those guys in the sense he would have been great wherever he went. Let's not act stupid to deny that he didn't have flaws coming in. He had a broken jumpshot, and a very limited offensive game. His strength was that he was a great defensive player which is why the Spurs originally drafted him and why a lot of a teams passed on him due to only having that skill set. Spurs helped him fix his jump shot and then worked with him to develop an offensive game.

I remember hearing a story from Matt Barnes a few years ago in which he stated that while in Philadelphia he would work on his jump shot a lot after practice. One day Mo Cheeks who was his coach came up to him and said "I don't know why you are working on your shot because I'm never going to allow you to take those shots so don't waste your time practicing them." Most coaches believe it or not usually are not willing to work with a player to develop more skills or give a player an opportunity to do something out of their normal skill set. Spurs did both for Kawhi.

Here is where I give Kawhi credit which is he had the work ethic that allowed him to get better along with talent to become a great player. If he was drafted by a bad organization like the Hornets I do believe he turns out to be a good player but I doubt he's an MVP caliber player. Coaching makes a huge difference for players with raw talent. I believe for example Batum had he been drafted by the Spurs probably would have been a superstar instead of just at best a borderline all-star.

So why havent the spurs been pushikg out more top 3 players then? Its on kawhi...mostly on him, and to a lesser extent, the FO...look at Giannis...The bucks arent a first class organization...yet they have arguably a top 5 player in the mid-teens...and Pop doesnt give his players much freedom...dude has a super short hook...especially for young players...u think Steph Curry would have been the player he is today being coached under Pop? The first time he pulled up from 40 with 15 on tue clock would have been his last...draymond wouldnt have seen the court...especially not over david lee...whenever steph is within 1 three pointer of the record, he would hsve been benched

[duncan2k5]

Those guys had a higher ceiling. Well.. RJ and Jax already were in the league for a while before they were a Spur, and they had their skillsets already. I don't think Pop used RJ effectively, and Jax certainly did his role in San Antonio.

Danny Green was on his way out of the league and I don't think, as much as I like Kyle, he'd stay in the league very long if not for San Antonio because of his footspeed. Kawhi just had a higher ceiling because he has much more athleticism, more upside, and admittedly, a better work ethic. But it's all about upside. I don't doubt that the Spurs made Green and Anderson very serviceable players in the league either. But the Spurs definitely helped bring Kawhi's star potential, I doubt another team (only probably the Warriors) would have the talent to develop players the way Pop and his staff has.

So no other team has stars then?? Smh...u guys give the spurs way too much credit

[bdictjames]

So no other team has stars then?? Smh...u guys give the spurs way too much credit
No, I'm just saying, the Spurs have a great track record of developing players.

Case in point, Manu, 57th pick, Tony, 28th pick. Bruce Bowen, undrafted. Fabricio Oberto. Francisco Elson. Gary Neal. Roger Mason Jr. Ime Udoka. Beno Udrih. Aron Baynes, undrafted. Cory Joseph. Much more others.

Oberto, Elson, Neal, Mason Jr. played good roles for the Spurs in their time, and had a hard time keeping a job after. Udrih, Baynes and Joseph despite being undrafted or being drafted late went on to produce pretty good careers.

Story short, Spurs have done a great job developing players, Kawhi included. Kawhi just had a higher ceiling than Green or Anderson, and perhaps a better work ethic, that you see it being reflected to who he is today. He was a poor shooter out of college, and he's one of the top scorers because of Chip, and because of the patience and development that the Spurs staff have put. There is no doubt the Spurs played a huge role in him being who he is today.

[Gagnrath]

Those guys had a higher ceiling. Well.. RJ and Jax already were in the league for a while before they were a Spur, and they had their skillsets already. I don't think Pop used RJ effectively, and Jax certainly did his role in San Antonio.

Danny Green was on his way out of the league and I don't think, as much as I like Kyle, he'd stay in the league very long if not for San Antonio because of his footspeed. Kawhi just had a higher ceiling because he has much more athleticism, more upside, and admittedly, a better work ethic. But it's all about upside. I don't doubt that the Spurs made Green and Anderson very serviceable players in the league either. But the Spurs definitely helped bring Kawhi's star potential, I doubt another team (only probably the Warriors) would have the talent to develop players the way Pop and his staff has.
Boston seems to be developing talent well under ainge this time around.

[sexinthatsx]

Ex-Spurs player stats:

Dewayne Dedmon: 5 pts 6 reb (with Spurs); 10 pts 7.9 reb (Magic)
Jonathan Simmons: 6 pts 2 reb 1 ast (with Spurs); 14 pts 3 reb 2 ast (Magic)
Boban Marjanovic: 5 pts 3 reb (with Spurs); 5 pts 3 reb (post Spurs)
David West: 7 pts 4 reb 1 ast (with Spurs); 6 pts 3 reb 1 ast (Warriors)
Aron Baynes: 6 pts 4 reb (with Spurs); 6 pts 4 reb (Pistons)
Marco Belinelli: 10 pts 1 reb 1 ast (with Spurs); 12 pts 1 reb 1 ast (post Spurs) <-- I miss this guy, he was so good for the Spurs

The main takeaway is that Dewayne Dedmon and Jonathan Simmons played significantly more minutes than the rest listed. If Kawhi leaves, I think it's safe to say his stats would be relatively the same. The only exception is that his scoring might drop off a bit or fg% might dip because of poor shot selection.

[Brazil]

We need to stop this... Let's not act like other teams don't have stars that were drafted in the teens... Spurs aren't special... Give Kawhi credit... Or else we would be pumping out superstars every year

I cannot wait to see Kawhi traded and see you gtfo tbh..

[dbestpro]

Boston seems to be developing talent well under ainge this time around.

All are much higher picks, as well.

[bic50]

Hell yeah.

[Hoops Czar]

I'm curious what everyone thinks. I think he owes alot to the Spurs.
Same qjestion... would Forbes be the same player he is without the Spurs system?