OT: Baseball more luck determined - Soccer more skill determined [Archive]

Avante

07-01-2018, 06:25 PM

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 06:27 PM

Fatball the Dying Sport :lmao

Does anyone even fucking know who Bryce Haprper is?

Pretty sure bryn forbes is more popular

:lmao

More millennials follow the MLB than povertyball in the US. :lmao

"Succcer spose to be sport of the yuth :cry"

apalisoc_9

07-01-2018, 06:28 PM

But Our catcher spends the most time sitting on his down. :lmao

Fatball aka dyingsportball :lmao

apalisoc_9

07-01-2018, 06:28 PM

More millennials follow the MLB than povertyball in the US. :lmao

"Succcer spose to be sport of the yuth :cry"

Modnightpulp sources :lmao

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 06:31 PM

Modnightpulp sources :lmao

Apa's "sources" - nothing.

Even the college World Series is hitting ratings highs :wow

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2018/06/college-world-series-ratings-highest-years/

And participation?

Baseball and softball combined to rank as the most participated team sport in 2016, according to the annual report by the Sports & Fitness Industry Association, a leader in sports participation research.

Meanwhile the MLS can't beat billiards and US World Cup ratings are a "nightmare." :lol

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 06:32 PM

:lmao the College World Series beat a high profile matchup between Germany and South Korea that saw Germany exit the group stage for the first time in like 80 years

In the same window, South Korea-Germany had 1.0 million on FS1 and 1.2 million with streaming included.

1 million :lmao

DAF86

07-01-2018, 06:35 PM

So basketall is better designed than soccer? Seriously though, before you hit submit, you should understand what you're posting.

I think we all agree basketball is pretty fucking great, tbh.

apalisoc_9

07-01-2018, 06:35 PM

https://news.gallup.com/poll/224864/football-americans-favorite-sport-watch.aspx

But but my sources :lmao

Baseball os dying breh. Just accept it.

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 06:37 PM

You could take a team of baseball players who would totally destroy any team of soccer players in other athletic events.

Bo Jackson
Jackie Robinson
Deion Sanders
Mickey Mantle
Willie Davis
Willie Mays
Cool Papa Bell......was so fast he once hit a grounder between first and second. Rounding first for second he had to jump over the ball to keep from being hit. Ah....so the story goes.
Josh Gibson
Don Hutson
Golden Tate
Russell Wilson

The only events the soccer team would be able to gain few points in a decathlon vs. the baseball team would be possibly the pole vault and one mile. The baseball team would trounce the soccer team in every other event in general.

apalisoc_9

07-01-2018, 06:37 PM

Funny thing about baseball they're on for like 5 hrs. You're clickig from channel to channel trying to watch the show and boom baseball is there.

Lets count it as view :lmao

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 06:38 PM

I think we all agree basketball is pretty fucking great, tbh.

I think it's badly flawed, not as much as soccer though. But they have the constant motion with running and jumping so plebs think it's "great."

apalisoc_9

07-01-2018, 06:39 PM

You crazy how how basbeall is most popular among Conservatives.

https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/5I5s8.png

apalisoc_9

07-01-2018, 06:39 PM

I think it's badly flawed, not as much as soccer though. But they have the constant motion with running and jumping so plebs think it's "great."

As opposed to a left fielder standing and poping his bubblegum

:lmao

DAF86

07-01-2018, 06:40 PM

And yes, soccer is terribly designed. In today's knockout round, 2 fuckin games had the exact same score and were decided by Mario Party :lol

"Baseball playoffs are the worst at ensuring the best team wins". :lmao

Clipper Nation

07-01-2018, 06:42 PM

Apa's "sources" - nothing.

Even the college World Series is hitting ratings highs :wow

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2018/06/college-world-series-ratings-highest-years/

And participation?

Meanwhile the MLS can't beat billiards and US World Cup ratings are a "nightmare." :lol
Baseball. Always. Wins.

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 06:43 PM

Funny thing about baseball they're on for like 5 hrs. You're clickig from channel to channel trying to watch the show and boom baseball is there.

Lets count it as view :lmao

You're incredibly retarded. For a ratings point to count, the viewing time has to be over 20 minutes. Baseball is way more popular than povertytie in the US. Deal with it. I don't want to hear shit about this until professional povertyball ratings can crack 5 or 6 million in the playoff rounds. Doesn't look likely. The MLS loses to the WNBA :lmao

So soccer fans shouldn't worry about overtaking baseball. You need to worry about overtaking women's basketball first :lol

DAF86

07-01-2018, 06:45 PM

4 real hours to complete 15 minutes of actual playing time. Now that's a perfectly designed sport. :lmao

apalisoc_9

07-01-2018, 06:46 PM

An Actual legit poll. Wonder why Mid is ignroing this...

https://news.gallup.com/poll/224864/football-americans-favorite-sport-watch.aspx

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 06:47 PM

"Baseball playoffs are the worst at ensuring the best team wins". :lmao

Nope.

http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2016/12/which-sports-league-has-the-most-parity/

But again, I don't think you understand how any of this works.

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 06:48 PM

4 real hours to complete 15 minutes of actual playing time. Now that's a perfectly designed sport. :lmao

NFL is worse in this regard, but you love it. I'm not so retarded to conflate action with only when the ball is in play.

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 06:51 PM

An Actual legit poll. Wonder why Mid is ignroing this...

https://news.gallup.com/poll/224864/football-americans-favorite-sport-watch.aspx

Because it's horseshit. Favorite doesn't mean followed. If you polled ten people and asked them to name their two favorite sports, and 9 said football/baseball while the tenth said basketball/football, you could frame it as basketball being more popular than baseball, but that's not the case. Most American sports fans have football/baseball 1 and 2. And the real actual fuckin' sources here to cut through the bullshit polls and opinions are ratings. And soccer ratings blow here. Deal with it.

spursistan

07-01-2018, 06:52 PM

I'll be back to check on this thread later on :lol

https://i.giphy.com/media/UlqLDtI8Qc0j6/source.gif

apalisoc_9

07-01-2018, 06:54 PM

Because it's horseshit. Favorite doesn't mean followed. If you polled ten people and asked them to name their two favorite sports, and 9 said football/baseball while the tenth said basketball/football, you could frame it as basketball being more popular than baseball, but that's not the case. Most American sports fans have football/baseball 1 and 2. And the real actual fuckin' sources here to cut through the bullshit polls and opinions are ratings. And soccer ratings blow here. Deal with it.

Mid with the ultra spin :lmao

I remeber whe he was talking about committed fans :lol

DAF86

07-01-2018, 06:56 PM

Nope.

http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2016/12/which-sports-league-has-the-most-parity/

But again, I don't think you understand how any of this works.

"Nope" what? :lol

You are basically making my point. You call it "parity", reality and facts call it "randomness". Basketball has a socialist cap space to prevent teams from hoarding all the talent. Yet there's always dynasties, because basketball it's designed in a way that rewards talent and good systems. Baseball has no cap space, yet any team can win on any given season because it's random as fuck. Simple as that. You can twist and spin your way around this fact all you want, but it won't make it any less true.

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 06:58 PM

Mid with the ultra spin :lmao

I remeber whe he was talking about committed fans :lol

How'd that MLS Final do? Yeah, lost to the WNBA Finals :lol

Spin that.

"But real soccer fans watch EPL and the other Euroleagues."

They still don't beat the WNBA. :lol

But I got polls too. Harris Poll, an industry fuckin' standard.

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-popular-sports-in-the-us-2016-3

Only 5% call the NBA their favorite :lmao. Guess it's dying? No. NBA is usually 3rd on the list of sports American follow. That simple fact fuckin' escapes your tiny brain for some reason. Favorite doesn't mean "only sport a person follows."

DAF86

07-01-2018, 07:02 PM

NFL is worse in this regard, but you love it. I'm not so retarded to conflate action with only when the ball is in play.

I like the NFL because it's fun, unlike baseball. I don't give a fuck about biased perceptions of "design". I only bring it up because you do. :lol One thing is for sure, baseball is more random on the outcome of it's games than sports like Basketball and Soccer, and that's not because of parity.

apalisoc_9

07-01-2018, 07:07 PM

Randomball
Luckball

:lmao

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 07:09 PM

"Nope" what? :lol

You are basically making my point. You call it "parity", reality and facts call it "randomness". Basketball has a socialist cap space to prevent teams from hoarding all the talent. Yet there's always dynasties, because basketball it's designed in a way that rewards talent and good systems. Baseball has no cap space, yet any team can win on any given season because it's random as fuck. Simple as that. You can twist and spin your way around this fact all you want, but it won't make it any less true.

Still being fuckin' retarded?

Did you even pay attention to the video you watched? Luck playing a role in an outcome doesn't mean a sport is any more or less "luck based" than another. In the NBA, players can control possession much easier than they can in the NHL, meaning it's a lot easier to feed your best players possessions than it is in hockey. NBA stars can also conceivably play the entire game. In hockey, even the best players only play about 30 minutes per game (in a 60 minute game). In baseball, you can't send up your best hitters every at bat. Star pitchers can only pitch every 5 days. In both the NHL and MLB, you can't dominate through star power alone (which translates into more moving parts and thus more variance). The "study" was also context free. Many times, a bubble team in the MLB will make a run if they make good midseason trades and if their farm call ups deliver. Furthermore, injury rate for pitchers might be the highest in all of sports, so if a team loses a key starter/reliever near the post-season, their chances at winning obviously decline.

What you also didn't consider is they are comparing an EPL season where the winner who has the best record after the season wins the title to sports that have a tournament playoff structure (more variance in the latter). You also didn't consider the paradox of skill, which you would understand if you bothered to read the article on which the video was based.

Quit being retarded.

apalisoc_9

07-01-2018, 07:10 PM

Outside of pitchers, do you even need skill in baseball? :lmao

No wonder most failed athletes Join baseball d-leagues.

Skilllessball

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 07:13 PM

I like the NFL because it's fun, unlike baseball. I don't give a fuck about biased perceptions of "design". I only bring it up because you do. :lol One thing is for sure, baseball is more random on the outcome of it's games than sports like Basketball and Soccer, and that's not because of parity.

He thinks a single context free study proves anything. Are you seriously this dumb? Your logic would also have you deeming ice hockey 50% random and 50% skill. No. That's not how it works. Try thinking about what the study says on a deeper level (it's doubtful you can, which is why I'm not surprised you don't consider the designs of sports and just latch on to whatever is the most superficially entertaining).

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 07:17 PM

Outside of pitchers, do you even need skill in baseball? :lmao

No wonder most failed athletes Join baseball d-leagues.

Skilllessball

Do you even need skill in soccer? Lightly jog around, throw yourself to the grass, and miss a penalty shot :lol

:lmao

1012061609374593024

DAF86

07-01-2018, 07:20 PM

Still being fuckin' retarded?

Did you even pay attention to the video you watched? Luck playing a role in an outcome doesn't mean a sport is any more or less "luck based" than another. In the NBA, players can control possession much easier than they can in the NHL, meaning it's a lot easier to feed your best players possessions than it is in hockey. NBA stars can also conceivably play the entire game. In hockey, even the best players only play about 30 minutes per game (in a 60 minute game). In baseball, you can't send up your best hitters every at bat. Star pitchers can only pitch every 5 days. In both the NHL and MLB, you can't dominate through star power alone (which translates into more moving parts and thus more variance). The "study" was also context free. Many times, a bubble team in the MLB will make a run if they make good midseason trades and if their farm call ups deliver. Furthermore, injury rate for pitchers might be the highest in all of sports, so if a team loses a key starter/reliever near the post-season, their chances at winning obviously decline.

What you also didn't consider is they are comparing an EPL season where the winner who has the best record after the season wins the title to sports that have a tournament playoff structure (more variance in the latter). You also didn't consider the paradox of skill, which you would understand if you bothered to read the article on which the video was based.

Quit being retarded.

You do realize you are just listing a bunch of reasons as to why baseball is more random than other sports, right? :lol

apalisoc_9

07-01-2018, 07:23 PM

Do you even need skill in soccer? Lightly jog around, throw yourself to the grass, and miss a penalty shot :lol

:lmao

1012061609374593024

:lmao

This guy

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 07:35 PM

You do realize you are just listing a bunch of reasons as to why baseball is more random than other sports, right? :lol

Yeah, a playoff caliber team trading for an ace at the deadline and then going on to the win the World Series despite not having the league's best record at the end (when everyone with a brain knows this team is now the favorite) is an example of "randomness." The study is also shit, but you're too biased to see the problems with it. To make it a "fair study" why didn't they correlate EPL/La Liga/Bundesliga/Italian League/French league success with Champions League success? In the most recent CL, the two finalists didn't win their fuckin' league.

And you're still not understanding the heart of the study. Paradox of skill is more responsible for luck emerging in sports than anything else. When two/five/eleven players are closer in skill, luck begins to play a larger role. Baseball and hockey have relatively deep talent pools. Basketball doesn't (the nature of the sport excludes 99% of the general population from having any hope of being an NBA player). American football doesn't. Soccer obviously does, but the dipshit author of the "study" compared a full soccer season to the other sport's playoffs. Fuckin' stupid. I might have to waste the time and correlate League success to CL success just to blow you out once again (how many times will this have been now?)

DAF86

07-01-2018, 07:39 PM

Yeah, a playoff caliber team trading for an ace at the deadline and then going on to the win the World Series despite not having the league's best record at the end (when everyone with a brain knows this team is now the favorite) is an example of "randomness." The study is also shit, but you're too biased to see the problems with it. To make it a "fair study" why didn't they correlate EPL/La Liga/Bundesliga/Italian League/French league success with Champions League success? In the most recent CL, the two finalists didn't win their fuckin' league.

And you're still not understanding the heart of the study. Paradox of skill is more responsible for luck emerging in sports than anything else. When two/five/eleven players are closer in skill, luck begins to play a larger role. Baseball and hockey have relatively deep talent pools. Basketball doesn't (the nature of the sport excludes 99% of the general population from having any hope of being an NBA player). American football doesn't. Soccer obviously does, but the dipshit author of the "study" compared a full soccer season to the other sport's playoffs. Fuckin' stupid. I might have to waste the time and correlate League success to CL success just to blow you out once again (how many times will this have been now?)

Sure son, do that. :lol

Avante

07-01-2018, 08:34 PM

The only events the soccer team would be able to gain few points in a decathlon vs. the baseball team would be possibly the pole vault and one mile. The baseball team would trounce the soccer team in every other event in general.

Bo Jackson was a HS decathlete. I can see Deion being able to do most track and jumping events.

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 08:38 PM

Sure son, do that. :lol

I shouldn't have to do it. Analyze the shit you think about posting before you hit submit.

Avante

07-01-2018, 08:39 PM

The NFL has had Olympic decatletes, long jumpers, sprinters, hurdlers, shot putters.

A hand picked NFL team would trounce any other sports team in some best athletes competition. YES....all soccer players, basketballers are superior to 300 pounders, but not talking about them.

Silver&Black

07-01-2018, 08:40 PM

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 08:50 PM

I did see that the two World Cup matches today......

:lol Both ended on penalty kicks

Baseball still sucks, but gotdamn soccer is gay. How can a mini-game decide who advances this far into "The biggest sport in the World"?

Remember our insult for soccer as TicTacTrot? That's why they need minigames. One characteristic of a poorly designed sport or game is, for lack of a better term, scoring equilibrium. Soccer falls into a scoring equilibrium far, far more than other sports, this leads to more ties and less scoring variation. Soccer really isn't that dynamic of a sport. It just looks dynamic because they're jogging around and the lack of controlled possession leads to chaotic outcomes (i.e. a shitty shot deflecting off the heel of a player into the goal). They need these minigames to resolve the outcome because there's a possibility of the match literally never ending.

DMC

07-01-2018, 10:27 PM

HNlgISa9Giw&t=11s

But I heard soccer was awfully designed. :lol

Never seen a World Series decided by arbitrary penalty swings.

midnightpulp

07-01-2018, 10:48 PM

Never seen a World Series decided by arbitrary penalty swings.

Japan went through to the knockout stage on, get this, "fair play" (they had less yellow cards than Senegal). So this basically means you're penalized for playing hard/aggressive in povertytie. More to the point, DAF was once again being intellectually dishonest and tried to make it look like baseball has a much larger random factor than soccer. No.

http://i65.tinypic.com/1zfcqr.jpg

And that's comparing a situation where 38 games decide the champion to a playoff tournament structure. Shit study (although has some good points, about paradox of skill).

DAF86

07-02-2018, 12:34 AM

Japan went through to the knockout stage on, get this, "fair play" (they had less yellow cards than Senegal). So this basically means you're penalized for playing hard/aggressive in povertytie. More to the point, DAF was once again being intellectually dishonest and tried to make it look like baseball has a much larger random factor than soccer. No.

http://i65.tinypic.com/1zfcqr.jpg

And that's comparing a situation where 38 games decide the champion to a playoff tournament structure. Shit study (although has some good points, about paradox of skill).

lol son. Then you acusse me of not watching or reading what you post. The video explicitly says that playoffs were taken out of the equation. If playoffs were taking into consideration, baseball would fare a lot worse, since MLB playoffs are "the worst at ensuring the best team wins".

Chucho

07-02-2018, 12:51 AM

They're both faggy sports, but soccer is more boring and has a larger queer fanbase.

midnightpulp

07-02-2018, 12:54 AM

lol son. Then you acusse me of not watching or reading what you post. The video explicitly says that playoffs were taken out of the equation. If playoffs were taking into consideration, baseball would fare a lot worse, since MLB playoffs are "the worst at ensuring the best team wins".

You're right, which makes the study even more problematic since he now doesn't have a quantifiable baseline to compare results against. It makes sense if you're trying to correlate regular season success with playoff success and then establish a "luck factor" from there, but you can't simply use something like Vegas odds or last season results as a coherent baseline. The study is even shittier now. And :lol at taking the bolded as fact because it came from a "study." The stats don't agree with that assertion. Ice Hockey's postseason outcomes are more random.

But who gives a shit? What exactly is your point? The author himself basically concluded that luck begins to play a bigger role when the skill gaps are closer. I agree.

“Okay, you have gotten the memo on improving skill: 10,000 hours, hard work, deliberate practice, grit, and attentive teacher. We’ve all heard it. You also recognize that in many of life’s activities, the results you achieve combine skill and luck. No debate there. Now, what if I told you that in many cases improving skill leads to results that rely more on luck? That’s right. Greater skill doesn’t decrease the dependence on luck, it increases it. If you have an interest in sports, business, or investing, this lesson is for you.”

Hockey's "randomness" in this case is easily explained by the fact stars only get 30 minutes of ice time, so the relative skill gap between teams will be a lot closer since role players have a larger impact on the outcome than in a sport like basketball. Not to mention hockey's talent pool is much larger than basketball's.