Thoughts on Spurs Trading Danny Green For DeMar DeRozan and Jakob Poeltl

[baseline bum]

If RC and Pop let the deal go down they wanted him gone. They could have kept him and made him play and hope that things would come around. They definitely gave up on that thought. Glad they got an All-Star to play with LMA. Surround them with some 3 pt shooters and maybe we'll score some points. We will need to!

They did not want him gone man, otherwise Pop wouldn't have made that trip to San Diego to try to sell him on the Spurs trading for another allstar to pair with him. This trade was an enormous kick to Pop's nuts.

[cd98]

The trade was to be rid of the headache. Kawhi’s guys tanked his trade value. So they gave the headache to Toronto. And Toronto knows he doesn’t want to be there. That’s why they gave up the minimum to get him. They’ll be trying to trade him in December.

[DMC]

Bad moves. Kawhi's value is pretty low because no one has seen him play in a year. The smart move would have been to bring him back to at least bring up his trade value. Also winning cures all so you never know. Pop was going to coach him on USA basketball anyway. This is a classic control move by Pop. He doesn't like not being in control of the situation.

No. You don't poison your organization by having your superstar be disgruntled (publicly I might add) and yet getting minutes just the same, knowing his eye is on the door. You cut bait and move on.

At least, in the process, Tony Parker was shipped out.

[offset formation]

Funny thing is Pop says kawhi did his thing and was good teammate etc. So basically he says everything was fine but Leonard just wanted to be traded and they did trade him and all sides benefits from it.

Damn how come this trade is equal from basketball standpoint?

Pop was never going to trash Kawhi in public.

[Seventyniner]

:lol at those bitching about wanting a deal to get done already, then bitching when the deal is done.

[ndbutch]

Since we apparently have a slew of people who have direct lines to GMs in this league, what other offers were made for Kawhi? Keep in mind that hearing it on RealGM or Lakersground doesn't count.

Nobody knows. But that didn't seem to be a problem with fans turning up their noses at "reported" offers until the Spurs got who they actually got.

[barbacoataco]

DeRozan is better than this board is giving him credit. He's the type of player who will play well with Akdridge. And Poeltl is the type of big we need, a real big who plays defense.

Spurs - go Spurs

[ernest787]

Posted something similar in another thread but I’ll drop this here too:

Simmons pod alluded to the fact that the Celtics never seriously pursued Kawhi and seems their offer centered around a Marcus Smart sign and trade, Morris, and possibly a pick.

They also talked about Fultz never being in the conversation and the Lakers not willing to put Ingram or Kuz or possibly even Hart in the trade.

This board just talked themselves into trades using trade machines and are disappointed that none of those materialized. At the end of the day we got a top 20 player in the league for a player that destroyed his value and sabotaged the team. I consider that a win, especially considering it seems like no one else was offering much.

[cjw]

They'd be guessing alright. If you're talking about Peoti, most teams have gone away from the traditional Centers and gone with hyprid and stretch 5's for a reason. He'll be virtually useless against a team like the Warriors. The league continues to zig and the Spurs continue to zag.

Poeltl can’t shoot from outside of the paint but if he can eventually develop into an Adams or Capella type role (not at the same level, but at a competent one) he’s useful against a number of teams.

Don’t get me wrong, as I agree that OG or Siakam would have been much more versatile. And I don’t like what this means for the prospects of bringing Nikola over.

[r0drig0lac]

We were never going to get the same value in return. Kawhi pooped all over the Spurs. There was no way to recover because of his stupid PR.

that's all, we have a 2nd all nba team for a guy who did not want to be on the team and did everything to completely destroy his value, no team would get anything in this situation, thanks Kawhi

[TheCerebral1]

Time to flip DeRozan for youth and build it back up. I am now hoping we start peddling Gasol and Aldridge out there as well.

[Chinook]

I think the worst part of this is that I had intended to keep up with whichever team Green signed with had he opted out. But this Leonard shit has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I don't think I can watch Toronto outside of following the progress of their pick.

[Marcus Bryant]

The trade was to be rid of the headache. Kawhi’s guys tanked his trade value. So they gave the headache to Toronto. And Toronto knows he doesn’t want to be there. That’s why they gave up the minimum to get him. They’ll be trying to trade him in December.

Likely.

[Marcus Bryant]

:lol at those bitching about wanting a deal to get done already, then bitching when the deal is done.

You must be new here

[polandprzem]

Pop was never going to trash Kawhi in public.

Yea it's not about trashing but not saying something that is not true. Of course we all can be wrong and Kawhi did support his team during playoffs...

Anyway good that Pop mentioned Danny as a guy that contributed in community and that he will be missed/ he did not said that about Leo :D /

[ceperez]

Time to flip DeRozan for youth and build it back up. I am now hoping we start peddling Gasol and Aldridge out there as well.

Exactly, Spurs have enough assets to keep on trading!

Spurs still have a playoff team though!

Murray Mills White
Derozan Walker Forbes
Gay Cunningham Bellineli Blossomgame(?)
Aldridge Bertans Metu(?)
Gasol Poetl

Manu?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Poeltl was a guy I would have been fine with in addition to OG. By the time I heard the trade was going down, I had rationalized Leonard and Green for DeRozan, OG and Poeltl. I would have been okay with Leonard and Gasol for DeRozan, Siakam, Miles and a first. I just feel like SA gave up the easiest package they could and took back the lowest deal they could possibly justify to themselves. Maybe that would have been fine back in June (or better yet as soon as they and Toronto were eliminated from the playoffs). A strong and immediate reaction seems justifiable. But to let it sit this long before making the dive: I just can't see why they wouldn't wait longer. None of this was going anywhere.

I wonder too if DeRozan was the "additional All-Star" all along. It seems very much like Toronto did this deal to get rid of DeMarr as much as to get Kawhi. Maybe there's a universe where SA traded 18, Green and Gasol for DeRozan to pair with Leonard and Aldridge. No reason to wonder about the impact such a trio could have had. Now, I'm just hoping there's something else in the works. If there is a trade they have access to still, I hope they still go for it, especially if it's for a guard. The team might have enough offense or ways to get enough points, but they still lack talent. Getting a perimeter-oriented guard definitely feels like the best avenue going forward. They "attacked" that by singing Forbes. But if they're going to sacrifice assets to contend, they need to be more committed to doing that than they seem to be.

I think the additional all star was Kemba Walker

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I think the worst part of this is that I had intended to keep up with whichever team Green signed with had he opted out. But this Leonard shit has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I don't think I can watch Toronto outside of following the progress of their pick.

I'll send you weekly local reports.

[MannyIsGod]

Funny thing is Pop says kawhi did his thing and was good teammate etc. So basically he says everything was fine but Leonard just wanted to be traded and they did trade him and all sides benefits from it.

Damn how come this trade is equal from basketball standpoint?

Pop was just not going to throw him under a bus in the press conference. He's a professional. Everyone there knew that answer was bullshit.

[Hoops Czar]

:lol at those bitching about wanting a deal to get done already, then bitching when the deal is done.
Turning down a philly package minus Fultz that included Covington, Saric and a miami 2021 first because they wanted more and then ultimately surrendering to a DeRozen salary dump so they could help Toronto clear their books of all that stank is really quite laughable. As it they even needed to sweeten the pot by throwing in Danny Green and 5M absolutely free of charge.

[spurs10]

This. After sitting on it for 24hrs still think it's not a good or fair trade but Kawhi made that impossible. Pop though drained at the pressor seemed defiant and Spur fan is right they did win 47 last year.
Biggest concern is defense on the wing. Spurs will play good team defense but no matter how you spin it Spurs took a big step back on that end talent wise even if Green had slipped some and Kawhi was injured.
But I think Pop coaches his ass off and you guys will be strong in regular season. I just think come playoffs a perimeter d of Belli, DD etc won't be enough. Yes the D is going to be the concern, but like you said I think Pop will be rejuvenated coaching-wise. I guess there is still time to improve on paper, but the spirit will be high. I know I'm looking forward to going to games...hope we can keep that 'hot at home' streak alive, as it's more fun walking back to your car after a "W." :toast
:flag:

[offset formation]

Yea it's not about trashing but not saying something that is not true. Of course we all can be wrong and Kawhi did support his team during playoffs...

Anyway good that Pop mentioned Danny as a guy that contributed in community and that he will be missed/ he did not said that about Leo :D /

Yep, I agree.

[Chinook]

I'll send you weekly local reports.

Thanks.

[wildbill2u]

-Honestly, after I read the total package of today’s big trade, my word for word reaction was:
https://i.imgur.com/YcAQlkx.gif

-After letting the trade digest a bit, I still don’t love it but I’m starting to understand the thinking behind it.

-Firstly, sad to see Danny Green go. He goes down as one of my favorite Spurs of all-time. He came out of nowhere to give the Spurs more than a half decade worth of championship-caliber starting shooting guard play. I’m proud of the way he bounced back from laying an egg in the 2012 playoffs by putting together a couple of the greatest shooting postseason runs this league has ever seen. Along the way, he became an elite defender, a great teammate and a player who kept a positive, wins-focused attitude no matter what. Thanks, Danny. Well done, man.

-I’m not ready to take a deep dive into Kawhi Leonard’s Spurs legacy. (It still hurts :lol) On one hand, the ride was damn fun while it lasted. On the other hand, it’s difficult to forgive Nephew for how things ended. I’m sure the Spurs deserve some blame but to sabotage your trade value by demanding a trade to the archrival Los Angeles Lakers … I mean, I can’t imagine a more villainous ending to what appeared even a year ago to be a perfect marriage between superstar and franchise.

-Let us take a moment to realize that not everyone is built like David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Those two are true legends. It takes more than just supreme basketball talent to carry a small market team to championship-relevancy year after year. Gentlemen, Spurs fans are forever grateful.

-Considering the trash offers the Spurs were reportedly getting for Nephew, you can’t be too unhappy with DeMar DeRozan. He’s much better than anyone the Lakers, Clippers or 76ers were offering. He has three years left on his contract and he’s due $27,739,975 per season, with the last season a player-option. While there’s some risk because he could decline physically during that time (he’s turning 29 next month), as it stands he should be worth that amount of money.

-Offensively, DeRozan is elite. Last season, his offensive real plus-minus was +3.42, which ranked 15th in the NBA. His ORPM has been consistently very good the last three seasons. He can create shots for himself in the halfcourt; DeRozan is very capable from all depths inside the three-point line. He has averaged more than 23 points per game for three-straight seasons. Last year, he took a big step forward playmaking-wise. He shattered his career-high by averaging 5.2 assists and was one of the top swingmen in the league in terms of assist-to-turnover ratio. And perhaps best of all, DeRozan is great at getting to the free throw line. He has averaged at least ten attempts per 100 possessions the last five seasons and knocks them down at a nearly 83% clip.

-While a top 20 player in the league on offense, DeRozan isn’t as good as a 100% healthy Nephew on the offensive end. I should make that clear. But speaking of health, that brings me to another positive DeRozan brings to the table: durability. DeRozan has been extremely reliable; his only extended absence in his career was a groin injury back in 2014. He has played 675 of 722 (93.5%) possible regular season games in his career. Nephew, on the other hand, has played in 407 of 558 (72.9%).

-Where DeRozan has been a liability his entire career is on the defensive end. He’s been really bad on that end – and that’s probably putting it kindly. DeRozan’s defensive real plus-minus was a ghastly -1.76 … and that was actually an improvement over his previous campaigns. He has athleticism and length but he’s never been able to be even an adequate defender.

-Fit-wise, I’m less than enthralled. For all of DeRozan’s talents on offense, he’s a poor three-point shooter (28.9% for his career). That’s a rather huge flaw considering he’ll be playing next to the longball-limited Dejounte Murray while occupying the same space LaMarcus Aldridge likes to operate in. Spacing is going to be an issue. A big issue.

(-Speaking of spacing, it now makes a whole lot of sense why the Spurs went with Davis Bertans over Kyle Anderson. The signing of Marco Belinelli also now makes more sense. As constructed, this team needs every perimeter player outside of Murray and DeRozan to be able to shoot if they have any hope of having decent spacing.)

-Pop has his work cut out for him when it comes to making DeRozan decent on D. If Pop can hide him (Murray should help in this matter) and cajole (gently, I’m sure) more effort from him on that end, it’s theoretically possible for DeRozan to become someone who doesn’t kill the Spurs on defense. I wouldn’t bet on it due to DeRozan’s long history of being a sieve, but maybe it could happen.

-In a DeRozan trade, I wanted OG Anunoby to be included. If not OG, then I wanted Pascal Siakam. If not Siakam, I wanted an unprotected first round pick. That said, Jakob Poeltl is a solid young center. Though he was somewhat lost in the Raptors impressive bigman depth, Poeltl is someone you can easily imagine sticking around the Spurs for the next decade.

-Poeltl, a 7-foot-1 center from Austria, has two main strengths: offensive rebounding and shotblocking. He’s top ten in the league in both categories on a per possession basis. Those two numbers alone make him a very interesting prospect. The 22-year-old, even though he’s 250 pounds, is also mobile enough to survive today’s perimeter-oriented NBA. He’s not David Robinson reborn but he can move his feet decently enough. I’ve also been impressed with his basketball IQ in the times I’ve watched him play.

-On the other hand, Poeltl is a shockingly poor defensive rebounder, especially for someone his size. To put it in perspective, his defensive rebounding percentage last season was worse than Gasol, King Joffrey, Murray, Gay, Nephew, Anderson, Aldridge and even Derrick White. How can someone so big and so good on the offensive glass be so pitiful when it comes to rebounding on the defensive end of the court?

-Perhaps even more damning for Poeltl in Pop’s eyes is the fact that he led the league in fouls per minute last season. Pop loathes fouls, even by active bigmen (See: Mahinmi, Ian). Poeltl fouls more than anyone else. That is going to be a rough fit unless the Austrian really improves on that end. Poeltl, even though he can be a sneaky-good passer at times, also turns it over quite a bit for someone who had limited touches with the Raptors. That, too, won’t sit well with Pop.

-Since Poeltl doesn’t have an outside shot, I can’t imagine him starting alongside Murray, DeRozan and Aldridge. That would be a spacing nightmare. But coming off the bench, he could be really useful from Day 1. At 22, he has upside and projects to one day be a possible starter. I wouldn’t be too surprised if he’s starting in three years and giving the Spurs 12 points, ten rebounds and two blocks per game. All in all, Poeltl was definitely a positive asset to get in the Nephew trade.

-I’m hoping even more now for Manu Ginobili to return because Poeltl could be his best pick-and-roll partner since Tiago Splitter was traded. A big guy who sets solid screens and rolls hard will be good for Ginobili as he quarterbacks the bench. And, probably more importantly, Poeltl’s fit on the second unit would be seamless with Ginobili spoon-feeding him. Without Ginobili, he could get lost in the shuffle.

-What will the starting lineup be? I think with the addition of Poeltl, Pau Gasol has to be the starting center, right? That would open up a spot in the rotation for Poeltl and it would help try to mask DeRozan’s defensive weakness. If Pop starts someone like Bertans at power forward and slides Aldridge to center, while that could help offensively spacing-wise, that starting lineup would be really bad defensively – especially since it looks like Mills, Gay or Belinelli would have to round out the starting five.

-The best fit to me as it stands would be to start Murray, DeRozan, Belinelli, Aldridge and Gasol. That’s the best hope for adequate defense and adequate spacing. (Belinelli gets the nod over Gay due to the desperate need for three-point shooting in that lineup and the nod over Mills due to size.) A bench of Mills, Ginobili, Gay, Bertans and Poeltl actually could be pretty strong, honestly.

-I was really hoping for a better haul in the Nephew trade. I can’t try to pretend I’m thrilled with what the Spurs ended up getting. (No OG? No Pascal? Only one highly protected first round pick? Man, that’s tough to swallow.) That said, following the trade, I think the Spurs can win 50-plus games. Are they championship contenders? I’d say it’s fair to call them a dark horse that needs something totally unforeseen (like Murray blossoming into an All-Star in 2019) if they are to reenter that conversation.

-Again, thanks to Danny Green. Poeltl should be a solid piece for a long time. DeRozan will be a breath of fresh air. He’s a good guy by all accounts. In fact, you can make the case he’s been the most loyal and team-first star in the league over the last half decade. No star player has ever shown Toronto any type of loyalty in their history as a franchise. DeRozan never wavered, never looked for greener and less-taxed pastures, and never tried to threaten his way back to Los Angeles. Basketball is again the focus and the playoffs should once again be attainable. I’m not upset about that.

"Pau Gasol has to be the starting center, right? That would open up a spot in the rotation for Poeltl and it would help try to mask DeRozan’s defensive weakness."

Doesn't make sense to me. IMO Gasol's defense is getting worse as he gets older--and that is to be expected as his speed/mobility fade with age. The legs always go first.

So I'd put Poetl in the fire as early as he can learn the system and plays. He seems to be very mobile for a 7'1" white guy :rolleyes with pretty good hands and handle. To be better at offensive rebounding than DRB is almost weird. The DRB should almost be low hanging fruit for a big mobile defender--unless the opponents are trying to draw him away from the basket as a defensive measure. At 22, with some additional coaching from Chip and our defensive bigs coach, not only could he be around for years, he might be the starting center as well.

Otherwise, I agree with you. Not as bad a deal as first thought after some reflection--and probably the best deal the Spurs were going to get. No point in playing out the string or waiting for more time for a miracle to occur as TOR could have taken the deal off the table. Time to move on.

[rjv]

so basically you know we got hosed but have rationalized it over time.

sounds like he rationalized it pretty well to me.

[ndbutch]

Shaq "healed on company time" and derailed our 2003 season. Same diff.

No. Kobe's "there can only be one sun in the sky" attitude beat the Lakers in the finals vs. Detroit (along with Malone's knee injury). I don't call 56 wins and a Finals appearance "derailing". I still recall the game in Detroit where LA was rallying behind Shaq, and Kobe having none of that, promptly shot them out of it. Spurs fans don't remember or give a rats rear. Lakers fans do. I think that was the season somebody got into trouble in Colorado. It wasn't Shaq. O'Neal played in 67 games that season. Kobe 65. Try again.

[Marcus Bryant]

Gasol's contract as a trade chip will start to gain value next season given the partial guarantee for the last year.

[gambit1990]

pop and demar both have bad skin so maybe they’ll be able to connect on a higher level than pop and kawhi.

[vy65]

At least Methlahoma is in the states. Kiwi now needs a passport to attend his autism classes after practice. That's some bullshit son :lmao


:lol Not sure if you're serious or not and this has nothing to do with anything Kawhi related....but Toronto is a significantly better city than Oklahoma City...

Have you even been outside the US since entering it? :lol

Murked

[kwhitegocubs]

I'm pretty shocked by the responses to this trade in here. You get two years of DeRozan, at least, in exchange for 1 year of Kawhi. Danny Green is a nice 3 and D player, but you also get either 2 2nd round picks (which the Spurs have done great with historically) or, fairly likely, a late first round pick. Oh, and a 22 year old center with a PER of almost 18.

DeMar is a healthy, high-minutes combo guard who was 2nd team All-NBA *LAST YEAR*. I get that he has had defensive weaknesses but he has all the tools to be at least an average defender in a much better defensive system like San Antonio. Look at how LaMarcus went from an average to an above-average defensive center just by being in a better system.

Yes, this will be a throwback mid-range team next year with DeMar, but the idea that getting 2-3 years of control for a durable 2nd Team All-NBA player in his physical prime in exchange for giving up a guy who has burned every bridge, promises that he'll only sign with one team (LA) that's unwilling to give up anything, and who only played a dozen games last year... is a BAD TRADE... is shockingly unrealistic.

The Cavs got smoked in the Kyrie deal. The Spurs salvaged a surprisingly good return on a toxic asset that destroyed his trade value by announcing his future plans in advance. Period.

[therealtruth]

So Kawhi was willing to go to USA basketball camp even though Pop was the coach and Pop thought the situation couldn't be resolved? They were in the same situation with LMA last year but didn't end up trading him. Regardless of how you feel about Kawhi, this trade does not make the Spurs better. That's sour grapes.

Also last year Paul George announced he wanted to go to the Lakers and the Thunders still ended up being able to hang on to him. I find it hard the believe the relationship couldn't have been salvaged.

[BillMc]

Kawhi's sister just thanked San Antonio.

https://foxsanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/look-kawhi-leonards-sister-posts-thank-you-message-to-san-antonio

Verbosity clearly runs in the family.

[ohmwrecker]

I don’t know what you guys are talking about. DeRozan and Poeltl for Danny Green is a great trade.

[J_Paco]

Nice to see timvp around, but have to sincerely disagree about Ginobili coming back for another season.

The Spurs have two young guards (White & Walker) that need time on the court to develop and improve. Marco was already brought back and will eat into that time. Ginobili sticking around would insure that neither sees significant court time (two 1st round picks in the G League?) or gains a prominent role.

Manu is 40 or 41 which is well, well past the age for an effective, rotational guard in the NBA. And I think White has the skillset to at least best what old ass/washed Manu can produce on a nightly basis (+ much fresher legs and more athleticism). He can be paired with any of Mills, Belinelli or Murray and likely be effective.

Time to think ahead and let the old dogs die/sleep.

Lastly, they should keep a roster spot open for a possible trade of either Mills or Gasol for multiple players or for a "diamond in the rough" signing of a SF. I don't think a group of Gay, DeRozan, Cunningham and Belinelli gets it done in today's NBA.

[SAGirl]

Spurs had the third best defense last year despite Mills, Fathead, Gasol, Old Man Parker, Joff, Hobbit Forbes etc...playing significant minutes.

Losing Green will hurt, but Pop and co. seriously don't get enough credit for having a defensive scheme that manages to be successful despite the sum of its pieces.

They aren't going to be a great defensive team, but they shouldn't be awful either. I expect the system will make Derozan look like a much better defender than he has been historically.
Fit the record, Fathead doesn’t belong with the rest of your hobbitses or traffic cones like Tony and Joff. You may hate that he was a reluctant shooter but a traffic cone he wasn’t tbh.

[SAGirl]

When Murray was drafted he was considered a high-upside offensive talent with no D whatsoever.

He was utterly atrocious on D in college -- people on this board either never knew that or have forgotten it.

Now, Murray is almost considered a defensive specialist. It was a transformative coaching job only surpassed by what the Spurs did for Leonard.

The Spurs will elevate Derozan's game significantly on D.
Murray’s effort and awareness in college was terrible. First if all he was really skinny, he has added muscle in his 3 years in the league. And he gave up on plays, but he was always a special rebounder and his length allowed him to rack up steals at a great rate. He had potential to develop defensively with great tools and already a great rebounder, good motor and steals hawk. It’s one thing to talk about a young prospect that has never been in the NBA and is raw and another about a veteran of 8-9 seasons.

But Pop will figure something out.

[Dex]

Fit the record, Fathead doesn’t belong with the rest of your hobbitses or traffic cones like Tony and Joff. You may hate that he was a reluctant shooter but a traffic cone he wasn’t tbh.

Probably a stretch to include him with those other guys...but I do think Kyle also benefited from being in the Spurs defensive scheme. Will be interesting to see if it carries over into Memphis.

[buujness]

As a long-time lurker, it's good to see a timvp analysis. Good stuff.

I'm pretty happy with this trade for a number of reasons:

1. This is clearly the best offer, with regards to the balance of staying competitive and staying in contention in the future. Even with all of DeRozan's faults, the guy can get his own shot, which is something the Spurs were desperately missing last year. That alone will make the offense work far better than it did last year. His defense does leave quite a bit to be desired, but he has been apparently focusing on improving that this summer, and he's known for always adding components to his game. Maybe he makes a jump in quality in that area here in SA (LMA is a pretty good example of that very thing happening).

2. I was initially pretty unhappy with the lack of OG Anunoby in the deal. Obviously he would still be nice to have, but the more I read about Poeltl, the more I like him. He's huge, mobile, protects the rim exceptionally well and is almost as good at finishing at the rim, too (above average). He's also an offensive rebounding nightmare for opponents. All of this, and he's still only 22. His ceiling would be Steven Adams, who is a pretty damn good player, and I would bet on him getting close to that.

PS: Here's a crazy stat (not sure how much I buy how indicative it is, but it's interesting): he's second in his draft class in WS-only Ben Simmons is higher (Dejounte Murray is tenth, ahead of Brandon Ingram, btw).

3. Kawhi going to Toronto was my second favorite choice in terms of sheer laughs. Want LA? Good to know. Here's the next flight to Toronto. Enjoy the cold, Canadian lifestyle, and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. Only better option? Charlotte.

[Seventyniner]

Probably a stretch to include him with those other guys...but I do think Kyle also benefited from being in the Spurs defensive scheme. Will be interesting to see if it carries over into Memphis.

Not just a stretch. It's, ahem, indefensible. Anderson was at worst the 4th-best defender on the team (Aldridge, Murray, Green) last year and light years ahead of the rest of that list.

[SAGirl]

:claw


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dib4PCfVMAAE8MT.jpg
:lol

[cjw]

Gasol's contract as a trade chip will start to gain value next season given the partial guarantee for the last year.

His contract has value TODAY. Free agency is for all intents and purposes over and teams shouldn’t be concerned with cap space now.

Yes, there is more value in the offseason or even at the deadline when teams know they’re out of it. But it’s a valuable trade chip - not quite like the Kendrick Perkins completely non-guaranteed deal a few years ago - but good nonetheless.

[SAGirl]

What sucks is if Leonard stayed they would have probably gotten DeRozan for Gasol + Green. When it leaked that Pop was trying to sell Leonard on staying at that meeting in San Diego a few weeks ago with promises of another allstar they had a trade lined up for we all assumed it was Kemba, but it was probably DeMar.
Good guess. We know Kiwi said no.

[wildbill2u]

I wonder if we will ever get a "Thank you, San Antonio" from Nephew himself. I just find it hard to believe he has such a big grudge against anyone on the team, or Pop, or the fans that he can't be gracious and say goodbye in a nice way.

[MultiTroll]

4. The timing of this trade has me suspicious. If Nephew is broken, don't you have to trade him before the Team USA camp next week? Hmm...
While I would certainly agree...…

Article claimed NBA execs, GMs/those with player acquisition power would not consider Kwa camp performance to mean squat.
Kind of like the NFL Pro Bowl where it's understood everyone is there to take it easy and anyone playing a lick of D thus even coming a mile within causing an injury to another is shunned.

[MultiTroll]

I wonder if we will ever get a "Thank you, San Antonio" from Nephew himself. I just find it hard to believe he has such a big grudge against anyone on the team, or Pop, or the fans that he can't be gracious and say goodbye in a nice way.
I'm in the camp that something huge has not been revealed yet.
Do not believe that Kwa character is at all as douchey* as Bitter Spurs Fan makes it out to be.

*Do believe he should have said something. Issued some kind of phucking statement.

[SAGirl]

I think the worst part of this is that I had intended to keep up with whichever team Green signed with had he opted out. But this Leonard shit has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I don't think I can watch Toronto outside of following the progress of their pick.
Perhaps Kiwi will not play in Toronto all that much after all, if his group keeps demanding a trade. Toronto may yet get more assets for their rebuild if Kiwi turned out healthy but still cancerous in wanting out.

Kiwi may also continue with his injuries too. There’s a real possibility Danny ends up playing a lot more games than Kiwi does for Toronto.

[DPG21920]

I will be obsessed with watching TOR. I hate Kawhi but as a basketball fan he’s a stud and if he’s remotely healthy TOR could terrorize teams. I will watch damn near every single game to see how things develop and TOR/PHI/BOS will be awesome to watch in the East with IND too.

[SAGirl]

I'll send you weekly local reports.
Your jinxing powers are nothing like daboms. It’s underrated how dabom jinxed Kiwi. :lol

[NASpurs]

I will be obsessed with watching TOR. I hate Kawhi but as a basketball fan he’s a stud and if he’s remotely healthy TOR could terrorize teams. I will watch damn near every single game to see how things develop and TOR/PHI/BOS will be awesome to watch in the East with IND too.

He’s dead to me. Only reason why I would watch Toronto is because of Danny and that’s it. Otherwise fuck Kawhi and whatever team he’s on.

[DPG21920]

I’m going to be really pissed when TOR trades Danny to a team and gets their pick back basically.

1020372444178198529

[Leetonidas]

Wonder when the press conference will be to introduce them. Haven't heard a peep from DD since his emo post the nite of the trade

[BatManu20]

I’m going to be really pissed when TOR trades Danny to a team and gets their pick back basically.

1020372444178198529


That would be dumb of them, as well as the team they'd be trading him to. Toronto's not going to find a better value than Danny and his friendly contract at the SG position, which he's supposed to start at for them this season.

On the flip side, I don't think any team would be willing to give up a First Round pick for one year of 31 year-old Danny Green… That would be pretty dumb. That GM would likely be on the hot seat after that move.

[mclinejr]

Wonder when the press conference will be to introduce them. Haven't heard a peep from DD since his emo post the nite of the trade

I can’t wait until Kawhi addresses the media. Cannot freakin wait.

DD will get over it and love being in SA. Not worried about that.

[Chinook]

I’m going to be really pissed when TOR trades Danny to a team and gets their pick back basically.

1020372444178198529

I'd be very happy, especially if that team buys Green out and PATFO re-signs him. Even if they don't buy him out, I could root for that other team much more easily.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I will be obsessed with watching TOR. I hate Kawhi but as a basketball fan he’s a stud and if he’s remotely healthy TOR could terrorize teams. I will watch damn near every single game to see how things develop and TOR/PHI/BOS will be awesome to watch in the East with IND too.

But don’t root for Toronto

I’m in a major conundrum right now as it is

[Gino20]

I'd be very happy, especially if that team buys Green out and PATFO re-signs him. Even if they don't buy him out, I could root for that other team much more easily.

Would they still need to wait one (1) year after trading him?

[gambit1990]

would much rather have one year of healthy kawhi than demar :rolleyes

[SpursDynasty85]

I've never been high on Philly except Joel Embiid. He is the true test of whether a true center can be an mvp in today's league. Just realizing, how good Toronto can be if everyone is healthy. They are neck and neck with Celtics as long as their coach can keep it together. Big question Mark's with Kawhi. I wonder how much his psyche has been affected. He was on his way to being the most dominant force in today's NBA. *snif. Like TIMVP says, still hurts.

[SpursDynasty85]

I'd be very happy, especially if that team buys Green out and PATFO re-signs him. Even if they don't buy him out, I could root for that other team much more easily.

Green is already on a one year deal. They will try to move Ibaka, Lowry, then Valucianas in that order I would think.

[DPG21920]

But don’t root for Toronto

I’m in a major conundrum right now as it is

I kind of am rooting for TOR because I think PHI are stupid cowards for not stepping up. So now I want TOR to knock them off so they can be ridiculed for blowing their chances. But I’m petty. Tom Petty.

[spursistan]

would much rather have one year of healthy kawhi than demar :rolleyes
He doesn't give a flying fuck about you. You got jilted. Are you still gonna be on your knees for him? Have some pride.

[Chinook]

Would they still need to wait one (1) year after trading him?

Nope. The NBA came out last year and said being traded to another team first means the original team is allowed to re-sign their guy.

[LkrFan]

1020365356441964544

:wow

[gambit1990]

He doesn't give a flying fuck about you. You got jilted. Are you still gonna be on your knees for him? Have some pride.:lol

has nothing to do with me.

healthy kawhi >>> demar

spurs with a healthy kawhi >>> spurs with demar

as simple as that.

[DPG21920]

:lol

has nothing to do with me.

healthy kawhi >>> demar

spurs with a healthy kawhi >>> spurs with demar

as simple as that.

Well no sh*t dude. But welcome to planet Earth. That was not a real world scenario. So would you rather have 0 Kawhi and no Demar or 0 Kawhi and Demar?

[spursistan]

I kind of am rooting for TOR because I think PHI are stupid cowards for not stepping up. So now I want TOR to knock them off so they can be ridiculed for blowing their chances. But I’m petty. Tom Petty.
I still can't believe Philly didn't bend just a little to close the deal despite the camp sending out feelers that he could resign there. Maybe, just maybe the intelligence on his health prospects is really grim. There are a lot of spurs connections in that organization who know quite something about this saga (Brett, Monty Williams, physician who kept tabs on that quad etc..)

[CitizenDwayne]

Is Demar the one with mental health issues or is that Lowry?

[spursistan]

:lol

has nothing to do with me.

healthy kawhi >>> demar

spurs with a healthy kawhi >>> spurs with demar

as simple as that.
You want it worded differently: Healthy/Damaged Goods Kawhi DID NOT WANT to be here, wtf are you gonna do? Supplicate to him more? That was the best deal out there. Stop living message board bubble..

[marinoman]

1020365356441964544

:wow
https://media.giphy.com/media/XWZi4377aAp7a/giphy.gif

[weebo]

Well no sh*t dude. But welcome to planet Earth. That was not a real world scenario. So would you rather have 0 Kawhi and no Demar or 0 Kawhi and Demar?

I would have rather just benched Leonard the entire year and tanked for a higher pick in next year's draft. Traded LMA for another pick, asked Manu to retire, and hoped Gasol would have another bicycle accident where he crushes his vertebrae so he could be forced into retirement.

[CitizenDwayne]

I would have rather just benched Leonard the entire year and tanked for a higher pick in next year's draft. Traded LMA for another pick, asked Manu to retire, and hoped Gasol would have another bicycle accident where he crushes his vertebrae so he could be forced into retirement.
This was never really feasible. A locker room just couldn’t take the pressure of having that situation going on for a full season. And imagine the fucking attendance

[ducks]

I want to win lma is not getting any younger
lma, demar, murray could be a big three

[CitizenDwayne]

I want to win lma is not getting any younger
lma, demar, murray could be a big three
Maybe like a medium 3?

[gambit1990]

Well no sh*t dude. But welcome to planet Earth. That was not a real world scenario. So would you rather have 0 Kawhi and no Demar or 0 Kawhi and Demar?
You want it worded differently: Healthy/Damaged Goods Kawhi DID NOT WANT to be here, wtf are you gonna do? Supplicate to him more? That was the best deal out there. Stop living message board bubble..

a) spurs should've waited until after the minicamp, why they didn't is mind boggling. if he didn't show up then the spurs would've been in the same position they already were. if he did show up healthy then his trade value would've rocketed.

b) if kawhi wanted to sit the upcoming season out then the spurs would've retained his rights after it ended. they could've at least tried to force him to play some games... and his trade value would've rocketed.

getting kawhi on court is a risk the spurs should've taken because it's a long shot that they were gonna beat the warriors anyways.

[marinoman]

Another allstar is needed for us to be contenders

[ducks]

Maybe like a medium 3?

Well gay would make it a medium 4

[ducks]

How much better will gay be this year?

[gambit1990]

i understand the spurs didn't wanna deal with the drama... but it was never a case of the spurs need to trade kawhi or else they won't win the championship. the situation was definitely undesirable but not dire.

spurs could've afforded to wait a little longer.

but whatever, i'm over it.

[weebo]

This was never really feasible. A locker room just couldn’t take the pressure of having that situation going on for a full season. And imagine the fucking attendance

I know but let's face it we aren't winning jack this year or next or the year after. Leonard gave us a punchers chance but thats over and done with. Majority of ST is just happy being competitive and DD paired with LMA will give us just that but we aren't winning--just PO fodder--we're the Trailblazers.
So I would have preferred if the Spurs just blew the whole thing up and started from square one.

[weebo]

I want to win lma is not getting any younger
lma, demar, murray could be a big three

:lol

lamarsha and defrozen are proven choke artist

[DPG21920]

i understand the spurs didn't wanna deal with the drama... but it was never a case of the spurs need to trade kawhi or else they won't win the championship. the situation was definitely undesirable but not dire.

spurs could've afforded to wait a little longer.

but whatever, i'm over it.

I think that is a fair point about waiting a little longer to see what happens, but if SA was neverous because no one was offering much for Kawhi - you can see why SA took it. I can see TOR backing out if you wait. You can tell it weighed on them and it took some big concessions for TOR to even pull the trigger it appears.

Look at how they are talking now and how DeRozan is so hurt. If you gave them more time I can see TOR talking themselves out of it.

I agree it’s fair to think if SA would have waited a little longer and Kawhi helped them would they have gotten more, but those are high stakes.

[Hoops Czar]

I think that is a fair point about waiting a little longer to see what happens, but if SA was neverous because no one was offering much for Kawhi - you can see why SA took it. I can see TOR backing out if you wait. You can tell it weighed on them and it took some big concessions for TOR to even pull the trigger it appears.

Look at how they are talking now and how DeRozan is so hurt. If you gave them more time I can see TOR talking themselves out of it.

I agree it’s fair to think if SA would have waited a little longer and Kawhi helped them would they have gotten more, but those are high stakes.

Toronto was desperate to dump DeRozen. That deal would have been available in October if the Spurs wanted it. How you go from Covington, Saric and a Miami 2021st pick (probably the most value of anything being offered) to a DeRozen salary dump just to buy a little mediocrity is beyond me. It's going to be fun if Toronto packages him to Philly for the same exact package the Spurs would have gotten.

[SpursDynasty85]

Both teams wanted a full training camp. Let's not forget both teams are trying to win. 1 Curry injury can equalize a lot out west.

[BackHome]

To be honest I am suprised we got anything for him. When you look at his injury he didn’t play all year and his camp demands were crazy. Who is going to trade a one year rental who you do not have a clue how bad his injury is.

[-21-]

Turning down a philly package minus Fultz that included Covington, Saric and a miami 2021 first because they wanted more and then ultimately surrendering to a DeRozen salary dump so they could help Toronto clear their books of all that stank is really quite laughable. As it they even needed to sweeten the pot by throwing in Danny Green and 5M absolutely free of charge.

WTF? Have you not been keeping up? The Sixers kept Simmons, Embiid, Fultz, AND Saric off the table. The Lakers refused to include Ingram and Kuzma. The Celtics reportedly made five players untouchable: Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Horford, and Irving.

[Hoops Czar]

WTF? Have you not been keeping up? The Sixers kept Simmons, Embiid, Fultz, AND Saric off the table. The Lakers refused to include Ingram and Kuzma. The Celtics reportedly made five players untouchable: Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Horford, and Irving.
Boston offered Irving straight up for Leonard. There were several tweets suggesting Philly did offer Saric. It's natural for any team to back track and say a said player wasn't offered for the sake of the player. The Spurs did the same with Green and Parker in the past.

[marinoman]

My biggest issue is patty or pau wasn’t even dumped

[BatManu20]

1020321199270662144

[FkLA]

Toronto was desperate to dump DeRozen. That deal would have been available in October if the Spurs wanted it. How you go from Covington, Saric and a Miami 2021st pick (probably the most value of anything being offered) to a DeRozen salary dump just to buy a little mediocrity is beyond me. It's going to be fun if Toronto packages him to Philly for the same exact package the Spurs would have gotten.

Please explain why the MIA pick was so valuable. Spo is a good coach and the organization has built a strong culture. What makes you think that it would even be a lottery pick?

[gambit1990]

i know most of the board probably prefer irving but fuck him. my least favorite player in the league.

demar is in my top five least favorite players in the league but i'll gladly take him over kyrie.

kyrie would be would as renown as john wall if not for lebron.

[gambit1990]

people were giving kyrie credit he didn't deserve for boston's success. i'm glad they went on to do as good as they did without him.

[Seventyniner]

I think that is a fair point about waiting a little longer to see what happens, but if SA was neverous because no one was offering much for Kawhi - you can see why SA took it. I can see TOR backing out if you wait. You can tell it weighed on them and it took some big concessions for TOR to even pull the trigger it appears.

Look at how they are talking now and how DeRozan is so hurt. If you gave them more time I can see TOR talking themselves out of it.

I agree it’s fair to think if SA would have waited a little longer and Kawhi helped them would they have gotten more, but those are high stakes.

If Kawhi had been willing to lift even a single prodigiously long finger, other than the middle one aimed in the Spurs' direction, the team could have gotten a lot more in return.

[SAGirl]

To be honest I am suprised we got anything for him. When you look at his injury he didn’t play all year and his camp demands were crazy. Who is going to trade a one year rental who you do not have a clue how bad his injury is.

Yup, never mind that his camp was very public trying to dissuade trades to anywhere but LA... threatening to not play, the risk of not passing the physical etc. The physical was waived, and Toronto took a risk. People think this is the Kawhi from 2016. Instead this is the Kawhi pupeteered by Uncle and that had Kyle start 73 games last season and playoffs in his stead with an alleged bone stuck in his thigh.

[BatManu20]

More hurt that that he was betrayed, or more hurt that he has to live in San Antonio, tbh.

1020433717813235712

[RD2191]

More hurt that that he was betrayed, or more hurt that he has to live in San Antonio, tbh.

1020433717813235712

Great, another emo fag.

[gambit1990]

Great, another emo fag.
https://i.imgur.com/vTPsPRp.jpg

[SuperCam]

1020452739887902722

First pic of Kiwi in Toronto and he looks like he's still being held hostage :lol

[Payote75]

Well no sh*t dude. But welcome to planet Earth. That was not a real world scenario. So would you rather have 0 Kawhi and no Demar or 0 Kawhi and Demar?

perfectly said!!!!!

[Kurik]

First pic of Kiwi in Toronto and he looks like he's still being held hostage :lol


1020453150103257089 (https://twitter.com/whoismikereed/status/1020453150103257089?s=21)

[SAGirl]

1020452739887902722

First pic of Kiwi in Toronto and he looks like he's still being held hostage :lol
He looks like he’s lost weight, muscle mass really..

[MoSpur02]

1020452739887902722

First pic of Kiwi in Toronto and he looks like he's still being held hostage :lol

He looks like he hasn't slept in two weeks and has been smoking Virginia Slim's and drinking Henney

[TVI]

healthy kawhi >>> demar

Healthy Kawhi who is hell bent on not playing for the Spurs ever again <<<<<<<<<<<<< demar

Simple as that.

[spurs10]

He looks like he hasn't slept in two weeks and has been smoking Virginia Slim's and drinking Henney :lol Maybe Benson & Hedges menthol longs, the kind that turns your skin that sickly green color eventually.

[r0drig0lac]

1020453150103257089 (https://twitter.com/whoismikereed/status/1020453150103257089?s=21)

perfect

[ElNono]

Nice to see timvp around, but have to sincerely disagree about Ginobili coming back for another season.

The Spurs have two young guards (White & Walker) that need time on the court to develop and improve. Marco was already brought back and will eat into that time. Ginobili sticking around would insure that neither sees significant court time (two 1st round picks in the G League?) or gains a prominent role.

Manu is 40 or 41 which is well, well past the age for an effective, rotational guard in the NBA. And I think White has the skillset to at least best what old ass/washed Manu can produce on a nightly basis (+ much fresher legs and more athleticism). He can be paired with any of Mills, Belinelli or Murray and likely be effective.

Time to think ahead and let the old dogs die/sleep.

Lastly, they should keep a roster spot open for a possible trade of either Mills or Gasol for multiple players or for a "diamond in the rough" signing of a SF. I don't think a group of Gay, DeRozan, Cunningham and Belinelli gets it done in today's NBA.

Look, whether Manu comes back or not, doesn't matter, this team isn't rebuilding. Young kids will play some spare minutes, but the bulk is going to go with the vets/guys with 1+ season on the team, tbh...

Just wanna make sure you set your expectations accordingly...

[playblair]

Great, another emo fag.

hes a crip hes not emo

[RD2191]

hes a crip hes not emo

Crips can be emo tbh :lol

[playblair]

Crips can be emo tbh :lol

derozan is going to have innocent mexican spurs fans throwing gang sings
https://fadeawayworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/derozan-added-to-his-highlight-reel-on-tuesday-the-canadian-press.jpgw650h330crop1.jpeg

[Mikeanaro]

Not bad, also Cancerwhi lost 80 million by sitting on bench a whole year and then creating a drama.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I kind of am rooting for TOR because I think PHI are stupid cowards for not stepping up. So now I want TOR to knock them off so they can be ridiculed for blowing their chances. But I’m petty. Tom Petty.

I kinda wondered if philly not stepping up and being so close with kawhi’s medical record was a red flag but maybe not

[spursistan]

I kinda wondered if philly not stepping up and being so close with kawhi’s medical record was a red flag but maybe not
Me and DPG21920 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=13014) have been hammering this point home..Unless Philly medical team know something we don't or only suspect (the damaged goods theory), they stand out as one of the biggest losers of this summer free agency (No, Lebron, PG13 or Kawhi when they just got rolled by Boston missing its two best players)..I mean it i not like their timeline with Embiid/Simmons will be decade-long-- both of whom have career-curtailing injury issues that could pop up at any time..

[BatManu20]

Kawhi still wearing his silver & black signature Jordan's :cry

[J_Paco]

Look, whether Manu comes back or not, doesn't matter, this team isn't rebuilding. Young kids will play some spare minutes, but the bulk is going to go with the vets/guys with 1+ season on the team, tbh...

Just wanna make sure you set your expectations accordingly...

I know where my expectations are at (40 - 50 wins & possible top 4 seed) and I think White will see time. But if Manu is around (a long with Marco) to eat up his potential minutes.

[objective]

Manu might be the best option at small forward to back up DeRozan

It's sad but I'd trust Manu to guard SFs a lot more than Marco and Forbes, and Manu will be easier to watch in his 15-18 minutes

[Ice009]

Nope. The NBA came out last year and said being traded to another team first means the original team is allowed to re-sign their guy.

Are you sure? I thought that was a loophole that was closed so you can't trade someone, have them bought out and then have them come back to your team in the same season?

[ElNono]

I know where my expectations are at (40 - 50 wins & possible top 4 seed) and I think White will see time. But if Manu is around (a long with Marco) to eat up his potential minutes.

I don't think White will play SG, I think he's very likely to be the third string PG. He would be fighting with Patty and Murray for mins.

With DeRozan in the fold, SG minutes will be extremely limited, IMO. I think even if Manu comes back, most of his and Marco mins might end up at the SF position providing some stretching...

[tbdog]

I wrote this in the Forbes thread but it makes sense here.

It's not that I hate the money or the player (Forbes). It's that we are guard heavy. There are only limited minutes available for Forbes, and that is if Manu retires and DD plays majority SF. If Manu plays on and DD splits minutes at SG, there are no mins for two of White/Manu/Fobes/Beli, because I would assume that Murray and Mills split the point minutes. And that means Walker is buried deeeeeep in the bench. It would take 3 guard injuries for Walker to sniff even garbage time. It only makes sense if Spurs trade Mills for a SF like Chandler.

[Ice009]

I kinda wondered if philly not stepping up and being so close with kawhi’s medical record was a red flag but maybe not

Yeah, that's something I've really wondered. I wonder if the doctor told them his medical opinion on Kawhi. I know he's not supposed to divulge medical information, but maybe he did. If he did break client/patient confidentiality, no one would really be able to find out, would they?

[Chinook]

Are you sure? I thought that was a loophole that was closed so you can't trade someone, have them bought out and then have them come back to your team in the same season?

The CBA a few iterations back closed the loophole of a team trading a guy, that guy getting waived and then immediately joining the original team. However, the new rule is worded in such a way that if a team A trades a guy to B, B trades to C and then C waives the player, then A can sign the player. B is still restricted. Larry Coon believed that this wording would be clarified by the league later on to prevent that indirect loophole.

However, the league actually went the other way on this. From 02/23/17:


Adrian Wojnarowski‏
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Sources: After an NBA review, @BobbyMarks42 interpretation is correct: Golden State is eligible to sign Andrew Bogut as a free agent.

That precedent should hold for all players in this situation. There's room to argue against Danny if he were traded and waived soon, but the basic reacquisition restriction does not apply.

[Gagnrath]

The CBA a few iterations back closed the loophole of a team trading a guy, that guy getting waived and then immediately joining the original team. However, the new rule is worded in such a way that if a team A trades a guy to B, B trades to C and then C waives the player, then A can sign the player. B is still restricted. Larry Coon believed that this wording would be clarified by the league later on to prevent that indirect loophole.

However, the league actually went the other way on this. From 02/23/17:



That precedent should hold for all players in this situation. There's room to argue against Danny if he were traded and waived soon, but the basic reacquisition restriction does not apply.

Honestly it will be interesting to see how that turns out, seems like post Kobe, the warriors gained the Lakers special consideration from the league office on rules clarification and punishment.

[024]

Trade was bad and no question the Spurs are worse off swapping a proven playoff performer, 2x DPOY, 27yo, and most likely future MVP for a proven playoff loser who is 2 years older.

Pop wants to compete and I guess you can't really blame him. There probably were better offers out there. Don't see why the sixers or Celtics wouldn't offer a few picks plus one of their many promising players like brown or saric/fultz. Could have set the spurs up on a different timeline than the warriors and lakers when Leonard joins. Now they are stuck in the same window as the warriors.

[SAGirl]

Manu might be the best option at small forward to back up DeRozan

It's sad but I'd trust Manu to guard SFs a lot more than Marco and Forbes, and Manu will be easier to watch in his 15-18 minutes
Agreed.

[SAGirl]

I wrote this in the Forbes thread but it makes sense here.

It's not that I hate the money or the player (Forbes). It's that we are guard heavy. There are only limited minutes available for Forbes, and that is if Manu retires and DD plays majority SF. If Manu plays on and DD splits minutes at SG, there are no mins for two of White/Manu/Fobes/Beli, because I would assume that Murray and Mills split the point minutes. And that means Walker is buried deeeeeep in the bench. It would take 3 guard injuries for Walker to sniff even garbage time. It only makes sense if Spurs trade Mills for a SF like Chandler.
:tu

[Marcus Bryant]

Trade was bad and no question the Spurs are worse off swapping a proven playoff performer, 2x DPOY, 27yo, and most likely future MVP for a proven playoff loser who is 2 years older.

Eh, that's not a given, to say the least. He's unlikely to end up in a system which emphasizes defense like SA. He'll be judged on his offensive production and will be an also-ran.



Pop wants to compete and I guess you can't really blame him. There probably were better offers out there. Don't see why the sixers or Celtics wouldn't offer a few picks plus one of their many promising players like brown or saric/fultz. Could have set the spurs up on a different timeline than the warriors and lakers when Leonard joins. Now they are stuck in the same window as the warriors.

He was on the block six weeks. This was the best offer. That's his standing in the league for a 1 year rental. That should tell you all you need to know about the prognosis for his future.

[DPG21920]

I mean, I am fine with people not liking the offer. I think it’s fair to say it was the best offer for a win-now player available but if your preference was to get picks and younger players then it might not be viewed as the best offer in total.

But SA wanted keep fielding a competitive team and this was the best offer in that lense.

[objective]

I agree that as far as offers go, they held out long enough to shake out deals. I would have still rather see them play harder ball and even sit Kawhi, but that's me.

But they didn't trade him weeks before the deadline without fielding offers like Memphis did with Pau. Everyone knew he was available, and every team had weeks of negotiating to put packages together.

[weebo]

I mean, I am fine with people not liking the offer. I think it’s fair to say it was the best offer for a win-now player available but if your preference was to get picks and younger players then it might not be viewed as the best offer in total.

But SA wanted keep fielding a competitive team and this was the best offer in that lense.

Just because you're competitive doesn't make you a contender. I think this is where the problem lies with this trade for us Spurs fans. Let's face it we'll win a few games but lose to teams with legitimate shot at winning a championship.
As much as I hated this KL saga, the Spurs pulled the trigger on this too soon on a player that at best would be a second banana on a championship team...and lest we forget we already have one of those in Lamarsha.

[024]

Eh, that's not a given, to say the least. He's unlikely to end up in a system which emphasizes defense like SA. He'll be judged on his offensive production and will be an also-ran.



He was on the block six weeks. This was the best offer. That's his standing in the league for a 1 year rental. That should tell you all you need to know about the prognosis for his future.
Spurs have been giving Leonard a lot of isos (to the lament of Spurs fans who wanted a return to the beautiful game) and his defense can be enhanced by a good coach but it's still amazing individually due to his physical gifts and instincts. If Leonard was exaggerating his injury, I don't see why he can't keep putting up 2017 numbers and results on the Lakers when he is more engaged.

"Best offer" is subjective. Like I said, Spurs probably could have gotten better value through a younger package and picks but Pop went with the compete-now package. No other team probably offered their established all-star so was the "best" offer in that sense. But DeRozan consistently failed in the playoffs and his stats have always gone down in the postseason so I don't see any silver lining in this trade especially since OG was not included.

[Marcus Bryant]

The other offers were what, Covington, Saric and a pick? This package was objectively better.

[sasaint]

I believe the Marco signing was the first indication that Manu was gone. We are so guard-heavy that Bryn's signing seals it imho. Manu is gone.

[spurs10]

The other offers were what, Covington, Saric and a pick? This package was objectively better. I don't think they had Saric in that deal. I sure haven't watched all the guys I was hearing about play, but I bet RC had.

I'm just thrilled that we have a new all-star best player at the 2 who can help LMA and our shooters. It's certainly going to be a better team than last year. Team with DeRozan is going to be better. I also like the prospect of Jakob. Looking forward to this season after that debacle last year.

[spurs10]

I believe the Marco signing was the first indication that Manu was gone. We are so guard-heavy that Bryn's signing seals it imho. Manu is gone. Or a sign that he might want to come back and end his career on a positive note enjoying playing with Beli and giving DD the keys to the car.

[therealtruth]

Spurs have been giving Leonard a lot of isos (to the lament of Spurs fans who wanted a return to the beautiful game) and his defense can be enhanced by a good coach but it's still amazing individually due to his physical gifts and instincts. If Leonard was exaggerating his injury, I don't see why he can't keep putting up 2017 numbers and results on the Lakers when he is more engaged.

"Best offer" is subjective. Like I said, Spurs probably could have gotten better value through a younger package and picks but Pop went with the compete-now package. No other team probably offered their established all-star so was the "best" offer in that sense. But DeRozan consistently failed in the playoffs and his stats have always gone down in the postseason so I don't see any silver lining in this trade especially since OG was not included.

Yeah the Raptors wanted to move Derozan because of their lack of postseason success with him. Maybe he can change his fortunes with the Spurs but I really don't think he is mentally capable of being the #2 guy on a championship team.

[r0drig0lac]

Trade was bad and no question the Spurs are worse off swapping a proven playoff performer, 2x DPOY, 27yo, and most likely future MVP for a proven playoff loser who is 2 years older.

Pop wants to compete and I guess you can't really blame him. There probably were better offers out there. Don't see why the sixers or Celtics wouldn't offer a few picks plus one of their many promising players like brown or saric/fultz. Could have set the spurs up on a different timeline than the warriors and lakers when Leonard joins. Now they are stuck in the same window as the warriors.

maybe he had not been a "proven playoff loser" had he been in SA in his career before, let's see ..

ps: however he will never be the player that Kawhi Leonard is

[spurs10]

In the last day or so I've been slowly coming out of the bad dream that was last year's bad experience. It was strange because you kept hoping that everything was going to be alright and it was great seeing LMA hold the line. However as everyone's worse case scenario turned out to be true it wasn't a good feeling to say the least. I thought RC would just keep 'him' for a season, but in the end they wanted him the hell outta there. Good! It feels great looking forward to a new season where someone can share the scoring with LMA.

So in the end I'm glad to see this debacle resolved- for the Spurs at least. The roster could use some tweaking, but we are already much better than last year on multiple levels.
:flag:

[spurs10]

maybe he had not been a "proven playoff loser" had he been in SA in his career before, let's see ..

ps: however he will never be the player that Kawhi Leonard is DeRozan will definitely benefit from playing with the Spurs. Also Kawhi didn't play for a year and his whole situation was such a nightmare that they decided to get rid of him. Undoubtedly he was great two years ago and hopefully his injury isn't going to be chronic and shorten his basketball life at that level.

I think he is a poison boy, but I don't wish him harm. :toast

[callo1]

Me and DPG21920 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=13014) have been hammering this point home..Unless Philly medical team know something we don't or only suspect (the damaged goods theory), they stand out as one of the biggest losers of this summer free agency (No, Lebron, PG13 or Kawhi when they just got rolled by Boston missing its two best players)..I mean it i not like their timeline with Embiid/Simmons will be decade-long-- both of whom have career-curtailing injury issues that could pop up at any time..

I was wondering about the same thing. Didn't know if it was attributed to that, or simply the issue of him moving on to LA the following season.


I think people are currently in the habit of severely underestimating the potential for this team next year. Jakob will add something the Spurs have been lacking since TD left....rim protection. DeMar is going to fit well with LA. That being said, losing Danny is going to hurt perimeter defense to a degree. It will be interesting to see who can step up and fill that void.

I hope White can bring his Summer League shooting with him next season. I see no reason that he can't, as he doesn't seem afraid of the moment. Having Beli back will add some clever shot creation and scoring off the bench.

DeMar is going to vastly improve his defense under the Spurs system. He has all of the physical tools to do so.

[SpursDynasty85]

Me and DPG21920 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=13014) have been hammering this point home..Unless Philly medical team know something we don't or only suspect (the damaged goods theory), they stand out as one of the biggest losers of this summer free agency (No, Lebron, PG13 or Kawhi when they just got rolled by Boston missing its two best players)..I mean it i not like their timeline with Embiid/Simmons will be decade-long-- both of whom have career-curtailing injury issues that could pop up at any time..

Philly are one of the favorites out East and have one of the youngest teams. Spurs calling out Philly for not giving them better assets when they did not have to. It was risky for them to go after Kawhi. Philly staying put and developing their younger players is exactly what the Spurs would have probably done.

[Marcus Bryant]

I was wondering about the same thing. Didn't know if it was attributed to that, or simply the issue of him moving on to LA the following season.


I think people are currently in the habit of severely underestimating the potential for this team next year. Jakob will add something the Spurs have been lacking since TD left....rim protection. DeMar is going to fit well with LA. That being said, losing Danny is going to hurt perimeter defense to a degree. It will be interesting to see who can step up and fill that void.

I hope White can bring his Summer League shooting with him next season. I see no reason that he can't, as he doesn't seem afraid of the moment. Having Beli back will add some clever shot creation and scoring off the bench.

DeMar is going to vastly improve his defense under the Spurs system. He has all of the physical tools to do so.

:tu

[Marcus Bryant]

Me and DPG21920 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=13014) have been hammering this point home..Unless Philly medical team know something we don't or only suspect (the damaged goods theory), they stand out as one of the biggest losers of this summer free agency (No, Lebron, PG13 or Kawhi when they just got rolled by Boston missing its two best players)..I mean it i not like their timeline with Embiid/Simmons will be decade-long-- both of whom have career-curtailing injury issues that could pop up at any time..

Well, if a Durant or a James became available, even on a 1 year rental, and sure, after a season of missing a lot of games, you'd expect better offers...

[spurs10]

I think people are currently in the habit of severely underestimating the potential for this team next year. Jakob will add something the Spurs have been lacking since TD left....rim protection. DeMar is going to fit well with LA. That being said, losing Danny is going to hurt perimeter defense to a degree. It will be interesting to see who can step up and fill that void.

I hope White can bring his Summer League shooting with him next season. I see no reason that he can't, as he doesn't seem afraid of the moment. Having Beli back will add some clever shot creation and scoring off the bench.

DeMar is going to vastly improve his defense under the Spurs system. He has all of the physical tools to do so. Yep! :toast

[spurs10]

Well, if a Durant or a James became available, even on a 1 year rental, and sure, after a season of missing a lot of games, you'd expect better offers... There would be better offers, I would think it was a combination of the injury and the behavior of he and his team. It wasn't a good look. I'd be cautious and weary too.

[Marcus Bryant]

There would be better offers, I would think it was a combination of the injury and the behavior of he and his team. It wasn't a good look. I'd be cautious and weary too.

I think there's a tendency to overrate him in general among NBA fans and commentators. That is, he's not top 3 or 5. Top 10, somewhere between 7 to 10 sounds about right.

[Marcus Bryant]

And that's in SA, with a team structured and focused on defense and allowing him to showcase his talent.

[Marcus Bryant]

And assuming he is truly 100% healthy and can get his game back to that same level. A lingering quad issue is no bueno for any perimeter player. Also he's been a bit of a China doll in his career.

[baseline bum]

Most depressing Spurs related video ever


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfC64yKMbm4

[spurs10]

And assuming he is truly 100% healthy and can get his game back to that same level. A lingering quad issue is no bueno for any perimeter player. Also he's been a bit of a China doll in his career. Yes his minutes played would be alarming to any team, not even counting last year which of course put him at the bottom of the scale...below Chandler Parsons. :wow

[Marcus Bryant]

Most depressing Spurs related video ever


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfC64yKMbm4

Yeah if that bitch can get on the court.

[DMC]

Wonder when the press conference will be to introduce them. Haven't heard a peep from DD since his emo post the nite of the trade

Maybe it will coincide with Tim's press conference to announce his retirement.

[DMC]

Most depressing Spurs related video ever


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfC64yKMbm4

Kawhi is clearly better, and I like these segments, however showing every DeRozan shot as a miss and every Kawhi shot as a make just pulls the viewer into coach's corner with his take. He shouldn't need to cherry pick that way. You'd think Kawhi never missed and DeRozan never made a shot.

hvBd8E9t0e8

Here coach Nick shows DeMar's short range ability.

Take most of these things with a grain of salt. While KL is obviously a better all around player, presentations like these are built on convincing you of a take, not teaching you the facts. It's designed so you'll say "oooh coach nick is smart and objective".

[tbdog]

If anything you can take from these videos is that DD is a SG and is best playing against smaller or equal sized players. As soon as someone is bigger, he can't bounce off them and create space. Luckily we have a tone of SF and a few guards /s

[picnroll]

Most depressing Spurs related video ever


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfC64yKMbm4
A lot of the comparison and advantage given to Leonard was his strength in absorbing contact and getting his shot off. When he came back for the nine games last year the difference I saw in his game was that he was thinner, not as strong couldn’t back defenders down like before. Also his theee point shot was less reliable but that could just be sample size. It will be interesting to see how he comes back this year.

[tbdog]

Another issue I have with this roster is rebounding. If we are going with 3 guard lineups at time (most of the time) and having Gay and Bertans play the 4, we simply don't have the rebounders to compete. We would simply need to run and gun. Luckily we have Gasol who is a super athletic big man, right? /s. See Leonard was a great rebounder for his size and playing SF. replacing him with DD, means our rebounding is significantly worse. Players like Carroll or Wilson Chandler would really help here.

Atm, I assume the rotation is this.

PG: Murray 27 / Mills 21
SG: Beli 18 / White 10 / Forbes 10
SF: DD 33 / Manu 12
PF: LMA 31 / Gay 24 / Bertans 14
C: Gasol 25 / Poeltl 15

That's a 12 man rotation and probably 2 more than needed on big games. I see White and Bertans/Poeltl losing most of their minutes with a boost to LMA/DD/Gay/Manu in those bigger games. Overall I am not happy with how many guards we have. I have no idea how Walker will see any time this season. Honestly, how can the Spurs not at this stage consider trading Mills for a SF. By trading Mills for a starting rotational calibre SF, will address many issues. White would become the backup to Murray, which he seems ready for with Walker and Manu being the 3rd string. DD can move to SG, which is his better position to play. This enables Beli and Forbes to be backup SG's which is who they are at the end of the day. Walker/Manu will add depth if need be.

Players who I think the Spurs could straight up trade Mills for to address this issue are.

Harkless
Carroll (expiring)
Lance Thomas
Wilson Chandler (expiring)
James Johnson

[ducks]

DeMar DeRozan is one of 10 players to average 20+ points in each of the last five seasons. Nine others:
LeBron
Durant
Westbrook
Harden
Curry
Lillard
Cousins
Griffin
A. Davis

[Immortal Spur]

Most depressing Spurs related video ever


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfC64yKMbm4
Dude is like I don’t want to rag on DeMar but makes an entire video ragging on him... then says at the end he just needs to play well in the playoffs. Vid was depressing

[therealtruth]

Pretty much explains why Derozan sucks in the playoffs where they allow more contact. 20+ ppg seasons don't mean anything if you can't perform when the brightest lights are on.

[tbdog]

Tor is starting to falter. Currently, 27th pick is coming to SA. 76ers breathing down their neck.

[DAF86]

The Spurs had a lot of better options if they wanted them (and we know because some have even been reported). The problem is that they overrated DeRozan's value.

Yep.


Also, White needs to be in the rotation. Him and Murray's possible development are the only things worth looking forward to next season.

Crazy to think that if Murray wouldn't have got injured, White might not even be part of the rotation.


I'm leaning to not wanting Manu back, tbh. I just want the Spurs to get one bonafide SF, at least one.

:depressed

[BD24]

The Clippers deal around Harris and their picks seem like it would have been the way to go if what they were rumored to offer was true

[cd98]

Yep.



Crazy to think that if Murray wouldn't have got injured, White might not even be part of the rotation.



:depressed

I think White would have been part of the rotation, for sure. But he would be a super sub a la Manu. He would have been the perfect Manu replacement from a play-making and scoring perspective.

[DAF86]

I think White would have been part of the rotation, for sure. But he would be a super sub a la Manu. He would have been the perfect Manu replacement from a play-making and scoring perspective.

I don't think he would have started as part of the rotation, tbh. I think he eventually would have made it, but not with the type of minutes he's getting now.

[cd021]

Tor is starting to falter. Currently, 27th pick is coming to SA. 76ers breathing down their neck.

Toronto has one of the easiest remaining schedules tbh. Ideally at least Milwaukee and GSW finish ahead of them.

[RC_Drunkford]

White would've been the 2nd string PG that's why Parker left

[TheGoatishere]

Glad we have a guard who can actually dribble tbh

[DAF86]

White would've been the 2nd string PG that's why Parker left

To start the season Pop played the SL of Forbes, DeRozan, Gay, Aldridge, Poeltl. Without Murray's injury it is safe to say that Murray would have Taken Forbes' place.

And we all know Forbes, Mills and Belinelli were ahead of White in Pop's pecking order, so those 3 plus Bertans and Gasol would have probably been the bench rotation.

[timtonymanu]

What the fuck am I reading? Do you guys really think teams are going to gamble on Kawhi? There are already rumors that he's considering sitting the entire 2018 season. This isn't mid-2016, and other teams have eyes and ears. They know Kawhi intentionally took himself out of last season.

This is way, way more than I would have expected us to get given the circumstances. You guys were expecting the moon when we have a headcase of a player who has said he only wants to play for the Lakers. If you were a GM not named Pelinka, would you buy Kawhi right now?

Raptors fans are really upset by this trade. That should tell you all you need to know about the relative value we're giving.

:lmao :lmao that last sentence , but seems like most people on here knew this was trash from day 1.

[DPG21920]

SA badly needs Murray/Lonnie/White to Pop.

I don’t get how SA could so strongly want to win now and not be making other moves. They have to know the roster isn’t well built and that they need more. If you are going to harm the franchise long-term for the sake of Pop short-term, why not go all in and make a move for another true win-now piece?

Still rings true. Baffling

[DPG21920]

No, LA did. Just like PG. Im calling it now: Unless LA trades for Kawhi this season, Kawhi will NOT be a Laker.

:wow

[RC_Drunkford]

Trading Danny Green so you can start Bryn Forbes :lmao

[timtonymanu]

“Take away our franchise player but here’s a solid, championship material role player just to top it off.”

Danny would still look like trash on this current Spurs system but man I would still prefer him over Dumbmar. :lol at least Danny never moped when Pop gets mad at him.

[timvp]

-Honestly, after I read the total package of today’s big trade, my word for word reaction was:
https://i.imgur.com/YcAQlkx.gif

That's why I always trust my gut, tbh.

[DPG21920]

Lotta truth bombs in this thread. Most had a good read on this crap from the beginning and no one felt good about it

[slick'81]

only the misinformed actually thought derozan would help this team or improve it

[objective]

I don't think he would have failed a physical, only refused to take one

And if value went down even more, so what? So instead of a depressed Max player who doesn't play defense, a number 28-30 pick, and a back up center that was abused by the Cavs ... They get nothing? Sounds good to me.

...

The Spurs caved because they're nice guys, way too nice.

Look at what treating Simmons will got them. Morey would have forced him into the Qualifying Offer, so would most GMs. But the Spurs being so nice let him it so he could go get paid. Even now, he has a bum wrist still not healed, and had he entered this market instead he'd be begging for a bi-annual.

But the Spurs were nice, let him go increase his career earnings from what was shaping up to be 5 million to 20 million and live a good lifestyle for him and his 4+ kids.

And how does Simmons treat them now? By shitting on the Spurs with his Kawhi tweets.

That bum was on his way to China and a life of debt and broken dreams without the Spurs' kindness, and he just spit in their face.

That's why they gave in, they're too soft.

I am not necessarily on the 'Must Trade DeRozan NOW!' team, because I don't want them to take back bad contracts or even more pet-scrubs for Pop to over-play.

He can opt-out and screw off, that's good enough for me.

[spurraider21]

That's why I always trust my gut, tbh.
:lol first fucking comment after your OP

so basically you know we got hosed but have rationalized it over time.

[DPG21920]

Just a disaster of a trade for the franchise. Lost Kawhi and have absolutely nothing to show for it and it’s actively hurting SA now.

And no, Derozan just playing doesn’t count for “something”

[slick'81]

Just a disaster of a trade for the franchise. Lost Kawhi and have absolutely nothing to show for it and it’s actively hurting SA now.

And no, Derozan just playing doesn’t count for “something”


As soon as i saw poodle included with derozan i cringed soo hard...like timvp said its one of the worst trades in sports history

[timvp]

:lol first fucking comment after your OP

:depressed

[Excessive Egotist]

At the time of the Leonard trade, it was reported that Philly's offer for Kawhi was RoCo, Saric, and Miami's 2021 first and the Lakers' offer was Ingram, Randle, and a first. Hard to say what pick the Spurs would have got from the Lakers. But would you rather have either the 76ers or Lakers over DeRozan, Poeltl, and Keldon Johnson? X factor is whether Danny Green would have been included to either Lakers or 76ers.

From my standpoint, Ingram is developing into a good player and either Keldon Johnson will have to turn into a good NBA starter or the Spurs need to flip DeRozan for a young player and/or pick who does. Otherwise, I think PATFO chose the wrong deal.

[JeffDuncan]

....X factor is whether Danny Green would have been included to either Lakers or 76ers.
...

Add up the salaries to find out. Green, at a nice round $10 million, was included in the Raptors trade to match salaries.

[DAF86]

Everybody but the hardcore sniffers knew this was an awful trade from the get go (the sniffers probably knew it too, but the need for sniffing got the best of them). But then we have to hear from folks like Pavlov that we can't possibly ever know more than PATFO about what's better for the Spurs on any single aspect. And once it is impossible to keep pretending that PATFO didn't fuck up, they pull the dishonest "hindsight card". Thankfully there's recorded evidence to expose their bullshit, tbh.

[K...]

Everybody but the hardcore sniffers knew this was an awful trade from the get go (the sniffers probably knew it too, but the need for sniffing got the best of them). But then we have to hear from folks like Pavlov that we can't possibly ever know more than PATFO about what's better for the Spurs on any single aspect. And once it is impossible to keep pretending that PATFO didn't fuck up, they pull the dishonest "hindsight card". Thankfully there's recorded evidence to expose their bullshit, tbh.

You people would bitch whether they took picks or demarr. No one defends this as a good option, but it's good enough considering the straits.

[DAF86]

You people would bitch whether they took picks or demarr. No one defends this as a good option, but it's good enough considering the straits.

Nah, that's just your dishonest sniffing traits talking.

[Cry Havoc]

:lmao :lmao that last sentence , but seems like most people on here knew this was trash from day 1.

Alright dude. Who do you propose we should have traded Kawhi for instead? No one claimed we won the trade.

[ezau]

Kawhi lovers are purposely ignoring the fact that DD has been balling lately. Over 20 ppg on 50% shooting in the last 9 games.

[HarlemHeat37]

Kawhi lovers are purposely ignoring the fact that DD has been balling lately. Over 20 ppg on 50% shooting in the last 9 games.

Kawhi just won a championship, I don't think his fanboys are too worried about a 9-game stretch in January by a player most Spurs fans hated 2 weeks ago:lol.

[BD24]

Alright dude. Who do you propose we should have traded Kawhi for instead? No one claimed we won the trade.
The Lakers package centered around Brandon Ingram and picks tbh

[Frenchfred]

Everybody but the hardcore sniffers knew this was an awful trade from the get go (the sniffers probably knew it too, but the need for sniffing got the best of them). But then we have to hear from folks like Pavlov (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=7343) that we can't possibly ever know more than PATFO about what's better for the Spurs on any single aspect. And once it is impossible to keep pretending that PATFO didn't fuck up, they pull the dishonest "hindsight card". Thankfully there's recorded evidence to expose their bullshit, tbh.

there were not that many good deals at the time. No team wanted to offer something for an injured player who said that he only wanted to play for LA. Insight is 20/20, maybe Ingram and Hart would have been better

[ezau]

Kawhi just won a championship, I don't think his fanboys are too worried about a 9-game stretch in January by a player most Spurs fans hated 2 weeks ago:lol.

Ok, Kawhi fan:lol Enjoy your two rings. :lol

[DAF86]

there were not that many good deals at the time. No team wanted to offer something for an injured player who said that he only wanted to play for LA. Insight is 20/20, maybe Ingram and Hart would have been better

Again with this hindsight shit. Dude, read the thread: no hindsight was needed at all. :lol

[exstatic]

The Lakers package centered around Brandon Ingram and picks tbh

Except that was never offered. Magic even admitted that. It was like Kuzma, Hart and a pick.

[BD24]

Except that was never offered. Magic even admitted that. It was like Kuzma, Hart and a pick.
That’s bullshit. Multiple people confirmed it was on the table. And lol if you believe anything Fagic says

[rascal]

Except that was never offered. Magic even admitted that. It was like Kuzma, Hart and a pick.

Tobias Harris and the two lottery picks. I then contact Philly who has the 10th pick and trade one of the draft picks for Mikal Bridges. Then draft Michael Porter Jr. with the 12th pick. Come away with Tobias Harris, Mikal Bridges and Michael Porter Jr.

[rascal]

there were not that many good deals at the time. No team wanted to offer something for an injured player who said that he only wanted to play for LA. Insight is 20/20, maybe Ingram and Hart would have been better

Tobias Harris and 12 and 13 were offered.

[r0drig0lac]

the irony is that with the new form that SA is playing, Danny (replacing Forbes) would solve half the problems on this roster.

[RC_Drunkford]

the irony is that with the new form that SA is playing, Danny (replacing Forbes) would solve half the problems on this roster.

this, but Pop didn't want him anymore

[Chinook]

Tobias Harris and 12 and 13 were offered.

Nope. It was just something fans speculated on. Clips were only willing to offer 12 and filler.

[rascal]

Nope. It was just something fans speculated on. Clips were only willing to offer 12 and filler.

Not true! I saw Harris and the 12 and 13 and it was not just fans speculation.

[rascal]

The Spurs were not interested in trading Leonard on draft night or before then. The longer they waited the market value fell.


Spurs are willing listeners on Kawhi Leonard trade proposals, but haven't been proactive in chasing down offers, league sources tell ESPN. For now, make an offer and they'll add it to their board. Spurs and Lakers have had no dialogue on Leonard.

Spurs were not proactive in chasing down offers. They did what any super conservative organization does, nothing, until they were forced to make a trade to get something back but by then the market value had fallen.

[rascal]

League sources say the Clippers have been trying to lure the Spurs into Kawhi Leonard trade talks with an offer featuring their two lotto picks and Tobias Harris, but it appears they'll be making the 12th and 13th pick for themselves — with Michael Porter Jr. still on the board.

Marc Stein

On June 19th it was Tobias Harris with the 12th OR 13th pick but by the 21st reports had the Clippers sweetening the offer with Tobias Harris, the 12th And 13th picks.

The Spurs were not interested in either offer that is why there was no trade.

[Slippy]

Sometimes you don't realize what you have until it's gone and then you realize the alternative is Bryn Forbes so you really miss what's gone.

Oh Danny boy

[ezau]

Imagine these Kawhi-stans' reaction if we only got Harris and a pick😂😂😂 The saltiness and hatred towards Harris would've been funny😂😂😂

[RC_Drunkford]

Imagine these Kawhi-stans' reaction if we only got Harris and a pick The saltiness and hatred towards Harris would've been funny

especially if he walked right after his first season :lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

especially if he walked right after his first season :lol

Or worse - if he got re-signed on a 5 year $180 mil contract :lmao

[DPG21920]

Or worse - if he got re-signed on a 5 year $180 mil contract :lmao

I wouldn’t want him at that price, but he would be a perfect fit next to LMA. Imagine Harris instead of Lyles/Rudy. Huge upgrade.

[DAF86]

I wouldn’t want him at that price, but he would be a perfect fit next to LMA. Imagine Harris instead of Lyles/Rudy. Huge upgrade.

White
Green
Bertans
Harris
Aldridge

Top 4 team in the West.