Report: Spurs wanted to declare Kawhi Leonard out for the season, but he wouldn’t let

[ducks]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-spurs-wanted-declare-kawhi-005335575.html

spurs get money from insurance and also maybe could pick someone else
if this is true he is a real loser

[marinoman]

Posted this part yesterday
" Popovich begged Leonard to let him announce to the media that the forward would be forced to sit out the season due to his injury, according to sources with knowledge of the situation. Believing he'd eventually return, Leonard declined each time, leaving Popovich to field queries from the media that he couldn't definitively answer. Popovich simply didn't know."

[Twisted_Dawg]

Where did it say the Spurs could collect insurance money and pick someone else? But, assuming the insurance statement is correct, the insurance company would have required proof meaning all the medical reports which would have exposed him as a fraud. No wonder he resisted the Spurs listing him as disabled

[Marcus Bryant]

Where did it say the Spurs could collect insurance money and pick someone else? But, assuming the insurance statement is correct, the insurance company would have required proof meaning all the medical reports which would have exposed him as a fraud. No wonder he resisted the Spurs listing him as disabled

They were already making trade demands back then, putting 2 and 2 together. Listing him as out would've dampened trade interest (ironic I know) at the deadline.

This is the beginning, the middle, and the end:


This is just more evidence those around Leonard might not know what they’re doing.

[SAGirl]

Posted this part yesterday
" Popovich begged Leonard to let him announce to the media that the forward would be forced to sit out the season due to his injury, according to sources with knowledge of the situation. Believing he'd eventually return, Leonard declined each time, leaving Popovich to field queries from the media that he couldn't definitively answer. Popovich simply didn't know."
I remember seeing it yesterday.

This is one of those bits of information that makes me believe that injury was very real (and I believe was at the source of the problem... Like slavery triggering the civil war). Who knows how he is doing from that injury really...

[ernest787]

He wasn’t injured. Bill Simmons has talked about this like 3 different times that he has sources that have told him Kawhi’s camp shopped around to find a doctor that would say he was injured. He mentioned it yesterday on his pod again. He said he heard that he went to 6-7 different doctors before he finally found the NY doctor that told him what he wanted.

Pop wanted to announce he was out for the season to salvage last year. It seems the locker room was divided, the media was constantly asking about him, and it seems it was taking a toll on everyone. If they were able to just end the saga then and say he was out it would have shut all of that down.

[LittleCriminal]

Where did it say the Spurs could collect insurance money and pick someone else? But, assuming the insurance statement is correct, the insurance company would have required proof meaning all the medical reports which would have exposed him as a fraud. No wonder he resisted the Spurs listing him as disabled

That's what pop and the spurs FO were after as well... The required proof of medical records.
Which is why leonard declined.

[ceperez]

He wasn’t injured. Bill Simmons has talked about this like 3 different times that he has sources that have told him Kawhi’s camp shopped around to find a doctor that would say he was injured. He mentioned it yesterday on his pod again. He said he heard that he went to 6-7 different doctors before he finally found the NY doctor that told him what he wanted.

Pop wanted to announce he was out for the season to salvage last year. It seems the locker room was divided, the media was constantly asking about him, and it seems it was taking a toll on everyone. If they were able to just end the saga then and say he was out it would have shut all of that down.



So he shopped around to fake an injury? Meanwhile he didn't show up to support the team on the bench? WTF?

[duncan2k5]

So he faked the limp? And the diagnosis that the spurs docs then agreed with? Amazing talent *sarcasm

[Chinook]

He wasn’t injured. Bill Simmons has talked about this like 3 different times that he has sources that have told him Kawhi’s camp shopped around to find a doctor that would say he was injured.He mentioned it yesterday on his pod again.He said he heard that he went to 6-7 different doctors before he finally found the NY doctor that told him what he wanted.

Pop wanted to announce he was out for the season to salvage last year. It seems the locker room was divided, the media was constantly asking about him, and it seems it was taking a toll on everyone.If they were able to just end the saga then and say he was out it would have shut all of that down.



Simmons isn't really a great source of info though. I still firmly believe that Kawhi's injured in a way that would have allowed him to play but removed his All-World upside.

[ernest787]

Simmons isn't really a great source of info though. I still firmly believe that Kawhi's injured in a way that would have allowed him to play but removed his All-World upside.

Bill is pretty plugged into the NBA circles. Jalen, Reddick, Morey, the Celtic connection, etc. Sometimes he speculates but usually makes it very clear that is what he is doing. In regards to the shopping for doctors, he has said that he has heard from sources that is what happened. I think Bill holds weight in that regard.

[Chinook]

Bill is pretty plugged into the NBA circles. Jalen, Reddick, Morey, the Celtic connection, etc.Sometimes he speculates but usually makes it very clear that is what he is doing.In regards to the shopping for doctors, he has said that he has heard from sources that is what happened.I think Bill holds weight in that regard.


I don't think he does. I sure don't think he knows why Kawhi shopped for the doctors.

[ernest787]

you're right. Let's just all speculate on here with all the sources we all have.

[Marcus Bryant]

Simmons isn't really a great source of info though. I still firmly believe that Kawhi's injured in a way that would have allowed him to play but removed his All-World upside.

The injury remains paramount. Teams were making crap offers, with return well below what the 1 year rental of a 'top 5' player would command. NBA GMs deal with asshole agents all the time. This guy missed 73 games last season and whatever injury he had, it was serious enough for a severe falling out between a star player otherwise known for his commitment and a well-regarded organization. The Sixers had good intel on Leonard's health, and it seems likely that whatever permission was needed for his info to officially be shared with the Sixers was granted - and they still did not improve their offer, even knowing Toronto was in the lead and he would otherwise be headed into their conference.

Sure, between Philly and Boston both could view life post-LeBron as an easier path to the Finals, no need to break up good young cores to take a chance on a player who at best will take a 1 year rental to recover his elite game before bolting next summer. Or perhaps there's something more...

[8FOR!3]

He wasn’t injured. Bill Simmons has talked about this like 3 different times that he has sources that have told him Kawhi’s camp shopped around to find a doctor that would say he was injured.He mentioned it yesterday on his pod again.He said he heard that he went to 6-7 different doctors before he finally found the NY doctor that told him what he wanted.

Pop wanted to announce he was out for the season to salvage last year. It seems the locker room was divided, the media was constantly asking about him, and it seems it was taking a toll on everyone.If they were able to just end the saga then and say he was out it would have shut all of that down.



That COULD be true. But it could also be true that he knew that something was wrong and doctors just weren't seeing it or finding it so he kept searching until he found one that did. Idk how it is with injuries, but I got an illness one time overseas and when I got back I had a really bad cough for a couple of months and doctors here couldn't figure out what was wrong because they weren't used to seeing that specific illness. Not saying that's the case with Kawhi bc well illness doesn't really pertain to it it's an injury we're talking about, but it could be a rare one that the doctors were missing something. Again, not saying it's true just saying it does happen.

[ernest787]

That COULD be true. But it could also be true that he knew that something was wrong and doctors just weren't seeing it or finding it so he kept searching until he found one that did. Idk how it is with injuries, but I got an illness one time overseas and when I got back I had a really bad cough for a couple of months and doctors here couldn't figure out what was wrong because they weren't used to seeing that specific illness. Not saying that's the case with Kawhi bc well illness doesn't really pertain to it it's an injury we're talking about, but it could be a rare one that the doctors were missing something. Again, not saying it's true just saying it does happen.

I agree with everything you are saying. In one of the podcast that was brought up though and Bill said that it was not framed like that him. I have no sources and I don't think anyone on this board does either. But I do know that Bill is really plugged into the NBA and does talk to people, so I think it’s silly to write this off especially when he’s mentioned it now several times on different podcast

[Marcus Bryant]

Leonard was on the trade block what, six weeks? That's a long time in the NBA, enough time for teams to devote the time and resources to do their diligence. Even with the prospect of a 1 year rental, the offers we saw were absolute crap up until Toronto's, which wasn't exciting considering where Leonard's game was at last year. But it was the best and the Spurs took it.

People often don't want to accept the verdict of the market, but it is what it is - there are serious questions about Leonard and I think his health is central to those concerns.

[coachmac87]

Again we still don’t know the OFFICIAL diagnosis. There’s speculation from both sides what they thought it was but we still
don’t know...

Someone please tell me so if I’m wrong

[8FOR!3]

I agree with everything you are saying. In one of the podcast that was brought up though and Bill said that it was not framed like that him. I have no sources and I don't think anyone on this board does either. But I do know that Bill is really plugged into the NBA and does talk to people, so I think it’s silly to write this off especially when he’s mentioned it now several times on different podcast

Right. And for that reason I don't think it's fair to say he sat out all year because he didn't want to play. That's accusing when we really just don't know. But I do think it's fair to say he could have handled it like a professional and there's a good chance it would have never come down to this.

It's as easy as "Hey coach, I know the Spurs doctors are great and they're saying nothing's wrong, but I am absolutely sure there's an underlying issue that's wrong here and I'd like to seek out treatment from outside sources until I get to the bottom of it."

Hell for all we know it could just be the case where we're so concerned about the injury we just don't want to play him longterm and saw the Toronto trade as a way out. Again, we still really don't know much. All I will blame Kawhi for, is not being a man and speaking for himself. That is the origin of this problem it's allowed all of us to speculate for months.

[Marcus Bryant]

Being skeptical - if I'm a NBA GM and I see this situation play out, where all of a sudden the franchise player, one of the best in the league (and up to this point with a hard-working, good rep), and the most stable team organization with a championship pedigree in the league have a public falling out because of an injury, its treatment and the player's rehabilitation, with the player demanding to be traded and the team willing to trade him, does this look right? What do both parties know that nobody else does?

Why the rush to be traded? Why the rush to trade? He's a free agent in a year. Players play out the final year of a contract before entering free agency all the time.

Sure, relationships between players and coaches and players and front offices change and can sour over time. Looking at the various bits of info starting to emerge, Uncle Denny was indeed making ridiculous demands and creating drama. Still, is that enough to dump a player who otherwise is top 5 caliber and who presumably will get back to that level when he returns to the court? Especially when maybe you got 50 cents on the dollar in that trade?

It still doesn't add up.

[ceperez]

Being skeptical - if I'm a NBA GM and I see this situation play out, where all of a sudden the franchise player, one of the best in the league (and up to this point with a hard-working, good rep), and the most stable team organization with a championship pedigree in the league have a public falling out because of an injury, its treatment and the player's rehabilitation, with the player demanding to be traded and the team willing to trade him, does this look right? What do both parties know that nobody else does?

Why the rush to be traded? Why the rush to trade? He's a free agent in a year. Players play out the final year of a contract before entering free agency all the time.

Sure, relationships between players and coaches and players and front offices change and can sour over time. Looking at the various bits of info starting to emerge, Uncle Denny was indeed making ridiculous demands and creating drama. Still, is that enough to dump a player who otherwise is top 5 caliber and who presumably will get back to that level when he returns to the court? Especially when maybe you got 50 cents on the dollar in that trade?

It still doesn't add up.

Makes sense if (1) Toronto didn't want to hold on to DeRozan's contract (2) Leonard is injured long term. In short, both teams got what they wanted.

People keep thinking that both teams were trying to get a deal. Perhaps both teams wanted to get out of bad contracts!

[james evans]

He wasn’t injured. Bill Simmons has talked about this like 3 different times that he has sources that have told him Kawhi’s camp shopped around to find a doctor that would say he was injured.He mentioned it yesterday on his pod again.He said he heard that he went to 6-7 different doctors before he finally found the NY doctor that told him what he wanted.

Pop wanted to announce he was out for the season to salvage last year. It seems the locker room was divided, the media was constantly asking about him, and it seems it was taking a toll on everyone.If they were able to just end the saga then and say he was out it would have shut all of that down.


so bill Simmons got access to not only the Celtics behind the act but the spurs. Ok gotcha. I never liked that mutha ducks. If he died tomorrow id probably smile

[Chillen]

Those last 9 games he play as a Spur in the highlights I didn't really see anything wrong with him, he looked healthy ready to play the season out.

Anyway have fun in Toronto Kawhi and if you go to Lakers have fun being LeBron's new toy.

[Killakobe81]

Being skeptical - if I'm a NBA GM and I see this situation play out, where all of a sudden the franchise player, one of the best in the league (and up to this point with a hard-working, good rep), and the most stable team organization with a championship pedigree in the league have a public falling out because of an injury, its treatment and the player's rehabilitation, with the player demanding to be traded and the team willing to trade him, does this look right? What do both parties know that nobody else does?

Why the rush to be traded? Why the rush to trade? He's a free agent in a year. Players play out the final year of a contract before entering free agency all the time.

Sure, relationships between players and coaches and players and front offices change and can sour over time. Looking at the various bits of info starting to emerge, Uncle Denny was indeed making ridiculous demands and creating drama. Still, is that enough to dump a player who otherwise is top 5 caliber and who presumably will get back to that level when he returns to the court? Especially when maybe you got 50 cents on the dollar in that trade?

It still doesn't add up.

This.
I have serious conserns about Kawhi and so glad we did not come to a deal teh SPurs would accept.
I refuse to buy he was faking injury, is now 100% and that this is all on Pop/the FO.

I know it was just a pressor but listening to Pop yesterdaty tells me there is more to this story.
Spurs will move on and be fine but the ceiling sure got lower with Kawhi's exit.
Not buying this was strictly a culture/lets end this saga move.

[Killakobe81]

Those last 9 games he play as a Spur in the highlights I didn't really see anything wrong with him, he looked healthy ready to play the season out.

Anyway have fun in Toronto Kawhi and if you go to Lakers have fun being LeBron's new toy.

He looked good not great in those games to my eye test.
BEfore that remember the last time we saw Kawhi he was giving Golden state the business.
That was two years ago.

[daslicer]

This.
I have serious conserns about Kawhi and so glad we did not come to a deal teh SPurs would accept.
I refuse to buy he was faking injury, is now 100% and that this is all on Pop/the FO.

I know it was just a pressor but listening to Pop yesterdaty tells me there is more to this story.
Spurs will move on and be fine but the ceiling sure got lower with Kawhi's exit.
Not buying this was strictly a culture/lets end this saga move.

:lol Wow a Laker fan defending Kawhi when it comes to his fraudulent injury. You are as credible in my eyes as Fox News when it comes to defending Trump. Real talk I actually respect the Laker fans who have been honest about this situation and just straight up admit Kawhi did the Spurs dirty but are still cool with Kawhi being a Laker.

[SAGirl]

In March 13,2018 Pop said that he had observed Kawhi work out and that he needed more time. At the time he had been riding stationary bike and doing some 3 on 3 drills with coaching and their support staff, nothing with teammates. It was Pop's assessment he didn't look ready or right. He obviously never made it to play.
https://www.slamonline.com/nba/gregg-popovich-kawhi-leonard-not-ready-return/

I don't think Pop would lie on something like this and they really wanted to rule him out for the season (and Kawhi didn't let them) to focus with the rest of their team on the remaining schedule and avoid the media distractions since the situation was blowing up in the media with no definitive answers.

Shortly thereafter, the team meeting happened, Manu and Tony basically admitted he wasn't coming back to play and Kawhi bolted.

Simmons saying Kawhi shopped for doctors doesn't = made up injury to me. He's shopped around bc Spurs staff back in August diagnosed him and treated him as having one condition but treatments made him worse per reports. He's could have shopped around for someone who told him he didn't have What the Spurs said for any number of reason , including denial of the mortality of his NBA career, money, his contract extension looming, perhaps real distress that he wasn't getting better...

[MoSpur02]

It's my understanding that back in December or some time after that he wasn't injured. The Spurs doctors felt he was ready. This is why the Spurs considered trading him. The Spurs had the okay to trade him to Boston, but R.C and Pop decided not to.

This is where all the problems started happening in the locker room. The guys are the team were frustrated. Pop, Murray, and Kawhi had dinner together and Kawhi really didn't speak. I'm assuming the dinner was to try to figure out what was going on and maybe settle things down before they got outta hand.

It obviously didn't work because things went down hill from there.

[SAGirl]

Leonard was on the trade block what, six weeks? That's a long time in the NBA, enough time for teams to devote the time and resources to do their diligence. Even with the prospect of a 1 year rental, the offers we saw were absolute crap up until Toronto's, which wasn't exciting considering where Leonard's game was at last year. But it was the best and the Spurs took it.

People often don't want to accept the verdict of the market, but it is what it is - there are serious questions about Leonard and I think his health is central to those concerns.
Yes notice Philadelphia didn't want to give up a guy with emotional or mental blocks who barely played last season himself. I didn't even want that guy if I am honest but Philly wouldn't give that guy up or Saric. They wouldn't give up anyone they needed or even someone they had some hope for still.

Toronto made the deal and the still wanted insurance in case both Kawhi insisted on the trade or that he wasn't playable due to the injury. That's why they didn't give up OG, and why they required DG. They wanted players to play both Derozan and Kawhi s spot. They were just encouraged in talking to him and his group that he would play, sufficiently to take the risk. But they wanted all insurance available to survive if the move didn't own out and they got it. SA had to acquiesce to these requests if they wanted Derozan. Those were the terms.that's why it was reported they were inn the drivers seat. making this deal for Kawhi was a risky play. Raptors were ready enough to move on from Derozan to take that risk, and move on with Lowry, DG, OG and the rest of their guys if need be.

[MoSpur02]

I can confirm what Bill Simmons reported is true. Not sure of the number of doctors he sought out, but he did seek different opinions

[SAGirl]

It's my understanding that back in December or some time after that he wasn't injured. The Spurs doctors felt he was ready. This is why the Spurs considered trading him. The Spurs had the okay to trade him to Boston, but R.C and Pop decided not to.

This is where all the problems started happening in the locker room. The guys are the team were frustrated. Pop, Murray, and Kawhi had dinner together and Kawhi really didn't speak. I'm assuming the dinner was to try to figure out what was going on and maybe settle things down before they got outta hand.

It obviously didn't work because things went down hill from there.
Yes, and he played some games in between December and January at the time he was judged ready to play, but then continued to complain from pain at which time Pop held him out again.

It's a very elaborate and difficult to maintain a lie for such a long time, including faking limps and pain like some fans assume that he did. Of course I am no insider and I am going by what has been made public but I give more weight to what Pop said at the time than the media speculation and unnamed sources.

I just really belive he had some type of injury. Maybe it's the kind that's chronic and recurs. That affects the group's bottom line. They might have even felt the urgency to get him traded bc Kawhi s career will not be as lengthy and durable as Lebron. Whatever he wanted to happen it needed to happen now, soon, immediately. This is from the groups and the exterior interest point of view.

[Marcus Bryant]

So a trade demand in 2017?

[ducks]

Pop tried

[ernest787]

I can confirm what Bill Simmons reported is true. Not sure of the number of doctors he sought out, but he did seek different opinions


Maybe now people will believe Bill Simmons?

People can not like Bill Simmons style or think he doesn't know the game like a hardcore basketball guy should, or whatever. But the fact remains. The dude is super plugged into the NBA. He has a current NBA player podcasting for his site. He just did a documentary on the NBA Finals. He is friends with a current NBA GM, etc.

My point with all of this is the guy who is plugged into the NBA and has legit sources is questioning the validity of the injury. He is also saying that he has heard from sources that Kawhi and his team shopped to get the answer they wanted and went to 6-7 different doctors until they got one they told them what they wanted to hear. When asked about the possibility of that being that he shopped until he found a doctor that actually diagnosed him correctly, Bill said that is not how it was framed to him. He has not mentioned this once but on several occasions.

Do I believe Kawhi had an injury to start the year... yes. Do I believe that early on the Spurs doctors cleared him to come back and play... yes. Do I believe that at that point Kawhi was fine... yes.

From that point on, I believe Kawhi sat out. This all goes hand in hand with what guys like Jalen were reporting that Kawhi wanted out of SA.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's my understanding that back in December or some time after that he wasn't injured. The Spurs doctors felt he was ready. This is why the Spurs considered trading him. The Spurs had the okay to trade him to Boston, but R.C and Pop decided not to.

This is where all the problems started happening in the locker room. The guys are the team were frustrated. Pop, Murray, and Kawhi had dinner together and Kawhi really didn't speak. I'm assuming the dinner was to try to figure out what was going on and maybe settle things down before they got outta hand.

It obviously didn't work because things went down hill from there.

Kawhi, blink once if you're ready to order.

[SAGirl]

Maybe now people will believe Bill Simmons?

People can not like Bill Simmons style or think he doesn't know the game like a hardcore basketball guy should, or whatever. But the fact remains. The dude is super plugged into the NBA. He has a current NBA player podcasting for his site. He just did a documentary on the NBA Finals. He is friends with a current NBA GM, etc.

My point with all of this is the guy who is plugged into the NBA and has legit sources is questioning the validity of the injury. He is also saying that he has heard from sources that Kawhi and his team shopped to get the answer they wanted and went to 6-7 different doctors until they got one they told them what they wanted to hear. When asked about the possibility of that being that he shopped until he found a doctor that actually diagnosed him correctly, Bill said that is not how it was framed to him. He has not mentioned this once but on several occasions.

Do I believe Kawhi had an injury to start the year... yes. Do I believe that early on the Spurs doctors cleared him to come back and play... yes. Do I believe that at that point Kawhi was fine... yes.

From that point on, I believe Kawhi sat out. This all goes hand in hand with what guys like Jalen were reporting that Kawhi wanted out of SA.
It's possible, but what do you make of Pop's statements in mid March of this year that he had watched him and he didn't look ready and that he had more work to do. At sine point all this becomes a mystery and its on what and who you choose to believe.

I can believe he shopped around for doctors bc he was looking for something specific. There's many injuries that players can play through. Just on Timmys history alone he played on a bad knee almost his entire career but what if Timmy was looking for a doctor who told him his knee could be fixed. He could have shipped around until he found Someone to tell him maybe, there was a small possibility that he had something other than a bum knee like a bone growing out of his muscle. And prescribed some treatment that takes months to see if it works or not really.

You see where I am going? He could have shopped for doctors simply bc he's in denial this is going to be his career now. He's going to have to play through some pain and manage this condition.

Only time will tell if I am right. Nit that I care to keep score. It's just been little nuggets of information that have come out to make me believe he did have a nag the entire season. Shopping around fir doctors doesn't mean he didn't have a nag necessarily.

[beirmeistr]

Kawhi, blink once if you're ready to order.

Siri probably orders for him.

[YGWHI]

Those last 9 games he play as a Spur in the highlights I didn't really see anything wrong with him, he looked healthy ready to play the season out.
Highlighs dont show all 3s he missed and how his quad affected that shot and jump


Yes, and he played some games in between December and January at the time he was judged ready to play, but then continued to complain from pain at which time Pop held him out again.

It's a very elaborate and difficult to maintain a lie for such a long time, including faking limps and pain like some fans assume that he did. Of course I am no insider and I am going by what has been made public but I give more weight to what Pop said at the time than the media speculation and unnamed sources.

I just really belive he had some type of injury. Maybe it's the kind that's chronic and recurs. That affects the group's bottom line. They might have even felt the urgency to get him traded bc Kawhi s career will not be as lengthy and durable as Lebron. Whatever he wanted to happen it needed to happen now, soon, immediately. This is from the groups and the exterior interest point of view.
Like you say, Pop saw some Kawhi’s practices in March and he said Kawhi wasn’t ready to play yet... Danny Green said Kawhi’s injury got worse in the summer…

There is no reason these guys to lie about…It’s pretty obvious that Kawhi was injured.But it’s more attractive for some media guys like Simmons create conspiracy theories. I'm sure that he wouldn't say that Kawhi shooped doctors if Simmons' loved C's would have gotten him.

It's funny because if you listen to his whole podcast, he also said who knows if Kawhi will be the same player again after this quad injury...

So Bill...Kawhi shopped doctors or was really injured?


It's my understanding that back in December or some time after that he wasn't injured. The Spurs doctors felt he was ready.

The same Spurs doctors that didn’t know that Mills needed a surgery in 2014 and the same doctors that didn’t know what type of hand-injury had Kawhi in 2015…

Just because Spurs doctors thought he was ready, it doesn't mean he was.

This is why the issues between Kawhi and the Spurs started. He didn't trust in team-doctors since 2015 when he had to get a 2nd opinion on his hand-injury.

On Chris Broussard podcast, Danny Green said Kawhi played injured in the playoffs, his camp told Ramona that he felt pain in his quad in 2017 playoffs and during the preseason but Spurs' doctors didn't believe it.

Sadly, he didn't get treatments in 2017 season. His NYC doctors told him that letting pain go on too long in his quad could make it much harder to treat last season.
That's why he had others doctors before but they couldn't make the pain disappear.

[paperboy77]

I remember seeing it yesterday.

This is one of those bits of information that makes me believe that injury was very real (and I believe was at the source of the problem... Like slavery triggering the civil war). Who knows how he is doing from that injury really...

What? Farfetched comparison. Nothing in a game is like slavery anything except actual slavery.

[SAGirl]

What? Farfetched comparison. Nothing in a game is like slavery anything except actual slavery.
Don't want to go on a tangent. Ignore the comment if you please.

[Marcus Bryant]

:lol at the doctor excuse. If the Spurs had any inkling that their medical team was fucking up that badly, especially with respect to their franchise player, then guess what? Spurs get a new medical team.

[paperboy77]

No problem here just saying what I think. Moving on....

[YGWHI]

:lol at the doctor excuse. If the Spurs had any inkling that their medical team was fucking up that badly, especially with respect to their franchise player, then guess what? Spurs get a new medical team.

RC said the Spurs made mistakes too...Who knows if it was for the way they handle his injury.

Spurs doctors aren't infallible, they misdiagnosed players' injuries in the past -Kawhi's hand included-...But it seemed the Spurs didn't change their medical staff for that.

[Marcus Bryant]

RC just said that shit when they were in we can reconcile mode.

Next month RC traded him to another country. Figure it out.

[ducks]

:lol at the doctor excuse. If the Spurs had any inkling that their medical team was fucking up that badly, especially with respect to their franchise player, then guess what? Spurs get a new medical team.

Yes

[YGWHI]

RC just said that shit when they were in we can reconcile mode.

Next month RC traded him to another country. Figure it out.

Traded him to another country because only a team of other country made a decent offer...Otherwise they would lose Kawhi for nothing next season.

It doesn't mean that Spurs' doctors are infalible/never misdiagnosed a player before.

[Marcus Bryant]

And Leonard played hide and go seek when Spurs personnel came to check on his rehab because he was scared that the evil docs were with them. Yeah.

[Marcus Bryant]

Traded him to another country because only a team of other country made a decent offer...Otherwise they would lose Kawhi for nothing next season.

It doesn't mean that Spurs' doctors are infalible/never misdiagnosed a player before.

It's an excuse created to justify holding out. Have fun following Toronto.

[lefty20]

Kiwi is a pos, we knew this already.

[YGWHI]

It's an excuse created to justify holding out. Have fun following Toronto.

I doubt Patty's shoulder would agree with you...But it's fine.

[SAGirl]

:lol at the doctor excuse. If the Spurs had any inkling that their medical team was fucking up that badly, especially with respect to their franchise player, then guess what? Spurs get a new medical team.
I disagree on the doctor issue from the frame of reference that YGWHi gives it, making it an excuse, making them seem incompetent. No way.

I see it as someone who is getting bad news medically looking for anyone that they hope can help. I do believe the injury was a trigger in all this. Obviously it didn't have to be. His uncle and people influenced him to make sure to exploit that rift for all it was worth. There were other factors and the shut hit the fan and got really ugly, but I simply don't believe the injury was fake.

[Leetonidas]

I doubt Patty's shoulder would agree with you...But it's fine.

:lol what does this even mean

[Marcus Bryant]

More excuses. Wanted to get paid for doing nothing, that's why he was dumped.

[L.I.T]

Interesting the dinner was including Murray. Helps explain how Murray (publicly at least) has seemingly started taking more of a leadership/ownership of the team role. And, probably why Spurs were ok with letting TP walk.

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh, he'll be back next week, rehab's going great!

[YGWHI]

:lol what does this even mean
Just when people talk about Spurs's doctors and wrong diagnosis, they use Patty's shoulder injury and Kawhi's hand injury cases.

[Marcus Bryant]

Kawhi did finally locate a competent medical professional who prescribed work-free paychecks.

[YGWHI]

I disagree on the doctor issue from the frame of reference that YGWHi gives it, making it an excuse, making them seem incompetent. No way.

We already know they made mistake before, Kawhi wasn't the first nor the only Spurs' player that got a second medical opinion before...But there is a difference saying they aren't infallible and they're incompetent. I never said that.

[sasaint]

Interesting the dinner was including Murray. Helps explain how Murray (publicly at least) has seemingly started taking more of a leadership/ownership of the team role. And, probably why Spurs were ok with letting TP walk.

Murray is Pop's new favorite.

[sasaint]

Kawhi did finally locate a competent medical professional who prescribed work-free paychecks.

Is he taking any new patients?

[TheRemix]

http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y315/aer0z1/FB_IMG_1532058949418.jpg (http://s1025.photobucket.com/user/aer0z1/media/FB_IMG_1532058949418.jpg.html)

[TekXX]

Is it really so hard to believe that he doctor shopped? Dude didn't want to play for legit or unlegit reasons and he found a doctor who would agree, not really that hard to believe. I personally think he was of course injured and then at some point he heeled but by that point he said fuck the spurs because uncle Dennis told him he deserves more of everything, money, fame, respect.

[J_Paco]

Those last 9 games he play as a Spur in the highlights I didn't really see anything wrong with him, he looked healthy ready to play the season out.

Anyway have fun in Toronto Kawhi and if you go to Lakers have fun being LeBron's new toy.

Exactly, there wasn't any wincing, limping or laboring during the highlights I've seen from last season.

I think at some point he was injured and needed a second opinion, but then it became something else (a smokescreen to leave the Spurs for home) entirely.

He and his group just handled it in the worst way possible and threw the medical staff, Pop and his teammates (especially Tony and Manu) under the bus.

[R to the P McMurphy]

Lmaooo....That T-shirt is f'ing amazing

[ernest787]

It's possible, but what do you make of Pop's statements in mid March of this year that he had watched him and he didn't look ready and that he had more work to do. At sine point all this becomes a mystery and its on what and who you choose to believe.

I can believe he shopped around for doctors bc he was looking for something specific. There's many injuries that players can play through. Just on Timmys history alone he played on a bad knee almost his entire career but what if Timmy was looking for a doctor who told him his knee could be fixed. He could have shipped around until he found Someone to tell him maybe, there was a small possibility that he had something other than a bum knee like a bone growing out of his muscle. And prescribed some treatment that takes months to see if it works or not really.

You see where I am going? He could have shopped for doctors simply bc he's in denial this is going to be his career now. He's going to have to play through some pain and manage this condition.

Only time will tell if I am right. Nit that I care to keep score. It's just been little nuggets of information that have come out to make me believe he did have a nag the entire season. Shopping around fir doctors doesn't mean he didn't have a nag necessarily.


You are also over looking all the reports that have come out that said the spurs were trying to protect Kawhi all season. They didnt want to throw him under the bus. That could be because they were trying to protect him or could be bc they didnt want his value to drop to where it got.

Either way that would 100% explain why PATFO said the things they said. Also explains why they begged them to announce that Kawhi would be out the entire season.

There have also been reports that Kawhi sought a second opinion all the way back in his 2nd season when he had an injury and that it is actually fairly routine for guys to do that. Which then brings up the question if that is routine and hes done it before why all the sudden would he not trust the spurs doctors and feel the need to go see 6 or 7 different ones?

Let's also not forget the reports that the spurs feel the riff began with the China trip when they couldnt even get in touch with him.

Was there an injury? Yes. Did the injury cause all of this? No.

There had plans to get out of SA the entire time. They tried a power play and screwed it up. The full story will eventually come out but there is a lot of info that points to hold out here.

[JPB]

I can confirm what Bill Simmons reported is true. Not sure of the number of doctors he sought out, but he did seek different opinions

I can can confirm it was 6, wife of the first one, Margareth, just experienced early menopause and daughter of the second, Tricia, one just got twins.

Here are the full names of the six docs :

1. Dr Shut
2. Dr the
3. Dr Fuck
4. Dr up
5. Dr Sauce
6. Dr Clown

[MoSpur02]

I can can confirm it was 6, wife of the first one, Margareth, just experienced early menopause and daughter of the second, Tricia, one just got twins.

Here are the full names of the six docs :

1. Dr Shut
2. Dr the
3. Dr Fuck
4. Dr up
5. Dr Sauce
6. Dr Clown

You feel better after posting that? Hope you do.

[picnroll]

Part of the story will play out over the ensuing year.
Will kawitter go to the Lakers for a discounted deal compared to what he’d get elsewhere?
Will kawitter go to the Clips for more money and his own legacy?
Can Toronto convince him to stay?
Are latest rumors true that kawitter wants to build a super team in Brooklyn no doubt with uncle Festus having a piece of the pie?

We’ve heard a lot of rumors out of kawitter’s group. His actions to me will show how much of the past year was dishonest BS. Personally I don’t believe a word of anything kawitter or his group have said. He goes out last season with a sprained ankle and mysteriously after that develops a hamstring injury that makes him a cripple. wtf is that?

[acoelho1]

We already know they made mistake before, Kawhi wasn't the first nor the only Spurs' player that got a second medical opinion before...But there is a difference saying they aren't infallible and they're incompetent. I never said that.

We know Kawhi's doctors were treating him since August and he still missed an entire year of his prime. We still don't know where he's at physically since he hasn't offered any real explanation and has been "close" to 100% for 6 months. This is not about a misdiagnosis. It's about a player that didn't want to be in SA anymore. Whether that is his uncle poisoning him on the Spurs, I don't know. What I do know is that Kawhi is a grown man and he's ultimately responsible for his actions. He chose to misinform the Spurs on his progress and return. He decided to go to China and not keep the Spurs in the loop. He enabled his uncle to manufacture a rift in the relationship. He decided not to support his teammates during the playoffs. None of his actions showed at any time that he wanted to continue to be a Spur, period.

At the end of the day, he wanted out and used these ancillary issues through his leaks in the media to provide the rational to leave an organization that has treated him like family. I think if he handled it like a man and played out his contract, I would have had a lot more respect for him. Nevertheless, I think any rational person can see that this is not about an injury. Further, I think Kawhi will eventually regret his decision. The grass isn't always greener as other players have found out. He may be the top dog now but let's see his team's loyalty as he ages. Time will tell how both parties will fair but I put my money on the Spurs coming out on top.

[ducks]

the plan is when he was in china to have spurs security guards which he ditched

which is not smart

[Maddog]

It's my understanding that back in December or some time after that he wasn't injured. The Spurs doctors felt he was ready. This is why the Spurs considered trading him. The Spurs had the okay to trade him to Boston, but R.C and Pop decided not to.

This is where all the problems started happening in the locker room. The guys are the team were frustrated. Pop, Murray, and Kawhi had dinner together and Kawhi really didn't speak. I'm assuming the dinner was to try to figure out what was going on and maybe settle things down before they got outta hand.

It obviously didn't work because things went down hill from there.


I can confirm what Bill Simmons reported is true. Not sure of the number of doctors he sought out, but he did seek different opinions

I wonder if at anytime the Spurs considered broaching all this with the league office. I know there has been talk about not sitting out your contract year and losing your free agency.
Although knowing the Spurs that wouldn't be how they have ever operated.

[wildbill2u]

This is all so confusing and will probably continue to be until he plays for someone. The thing that really puzzles me is that on the one hand we get stories from the Kwahi camp that the Spurs didn't believe he was injured and wanted him to play per their doctors. And we are to believe that made him mad enough to turn to dreams of playing in LA and sit out the season without supporting his teammates?

OK, but if the Spurs wanted to put him on the unable to perform list per the new reports why wouldn't he have been happy with that?. So he worked the NYC doctors until he found one who would back him up but he wouldn't release those medical reports? Why? Supposedly Because he wanted to deny he was seriously injured so he could go elsewhere with a big contract?

Do any of these contrary arguments make any sense at all to anyone? One thing for sure, this is going to affect the Spurs going forward in signing talent. I can hear the mantra now, "Man, if a brotha don't feel like they treated him right after he won a championship for them and was DPOY and an All Star, then why do I want to go there?"

[TheDoctor]

Highlighs dont show all 3s he missed and how his quad affected that shot and jump


Like you say, Pop saw some Kawhi’s practices in March and he said Kawhi wasn’t ready to play yet... Danny Green said Kawhi’s injury got worse in the summer…

There is no reason these guys to lie about…It’s pretty obvious that Kawhi was injured.But it’s more attractive for some media guys like Simmons create conspiracy theories. I'm sure that he wouldn't say that Kawhi shooped doctors if Simmons' loved C's would have gotten him.

It's funny because if you listen to his whole podcast, he also said who knows if Kawhi will be the same player again after this quad injury...

So Bill...Kawhi shopped doctors or was really injured?



The same Spurs doctors that didn’t know that Mills needed a surgery in 2014 and the same doctors that didn’t know what type of hand-injury had Kawhi in 2015…

Just because Spurs doctors thought he was ready, it doesn't mean he was.

This is why the issues between Kawhi and the Spurs started. He didn't trust in team-doctors since 2015 when he had to get a 2nd opinion on his hand-injury.

On Chris Broussard podcast, Danny Green said Kawhi played injured in the playoffs, his camp told Ramona that he felt pain in his quad in 2017 playoffs and during the preseason but Spurs' doctors didn't believe it.

Sadly, he didn't get treatments in 2017 season. His NYC doctors told him that letting pain go on too long in his quad could make it much harder to treat last season.
That's why he had others doctors before but they couldn't make the pain disappear.

https://i.imgur.com/nq813QP.gif

[NickiRasgo]

This is all so confusing and will probably continue to be until he plays for someone. The thing that really puzzles me is that on the one hand we get stories from the Kwahi camp that the Spurs didn't believe he was injured and wanted him to play per their doctors. And we are to believe that made him mad enough to turn to dreams of playing in LA and sit out the season without supporting his teammates?

OK, but if the Spurs wanted to put him on the unable to perform list per the new reports why wouldn't he have been happy with that?. So he worked the NYC doctors until he found one who would back him up but he wouldn't release those medical reports? Why? Supposedly Because he wanted to deny he was seriously injured so he could go elsewhere with a big contract?

Do any of these contrary arguments make any sense at all to anyone? One thing for sure, this is going to affect the Spurs going forward in signing talent. I can hear the mantra now, "Man, if a brotha don't feel like they treated him right after he won a championship for them and was DPOY and an All Star, then why do I want to go there?"

This is only an isolated case, it's not like the didn't took care with Duncan, Parker and Ginobili. Spurs is still respected in the league. Big names not signing with the Spurs it's because it's in San Antonio not because on how they treated their players. The negative impact on the trade is more on Toronto rather than San Antonio, heck some of them probably blaming Kawhi and his camp.

[picnroll]

I doubt Patty's shoulder would agree with you...But it's fine.

Hey dingus, how is it knitter is playing like Superman, steps on Zaza’s and comes back a couple of months later with a near fatal hamstring booboo? Did uncle Festus go all Tonya Harding on him?