Trump slowly starts to realize his North Korea gambit is failing

[RandomGuy]

(shrugs)

As predicted.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Publicly, Donald Trump pretends his policy toward North Korea is a historic success. The Republican president has assured the American public that he’s “solved” the problem posed by the rogue nuclear state, to the point that North Korea is no longer a threat.

“President Obama said that North Korea was our biggest and most dangerous problem,” Trump declared last month. “No longer – sleep well tonight!”

Privately, however, it’s a different story. The Washington Post reported over the weekend:


The lack of immediate progress, though predicted by many analysts, has frustrated the president, who has fumed at his aides in private even as he publicly hails the success of the negotiations. […]

[L]ate last week in meetings with his aides, Trump bristled about the lack of positive developments in the negotiations.



In a bizarre way, I find this is oddly reassuring. The reality is that the president’s gambit is failing, just as experts predicted. Confronted with these facts, Trump can either accept reality and launch a public-deception campaign in the hopes of convincing voters he’s succeeding, or he can pretend reality is what he wants it to be and genuinely believe the nonsense he’s peddling.

If the Post’s reporting is accurate, the president has chosen the former over the latter. And while the lying is obviously a problem, I take some comfort in the fact that Trump realizes his policy isn’t working.

Because it really isn’t. From the Post’s article:


Diplomats say the North Koreans have canceled follow-up meetings, demanded more money and failed to maintain basic communications, even as the once-isolated regime’s engagements with China and South Korea flourish.

Meanwhile, a missile-engine testing facility that Trump said would be destroyed remains intact, and U.S. intelligence officials say Pyongyang is working to conceal key aspects of its nuclear program.

Wait, what was that about “demanding more money”? Apparently, North Korea has requested that the United States pay for “the transportation and storage costs” associated with delivering the remains of fallen American soldiers who were killed during the Korean War.

It’s just one more aspect of the process that’s not going well.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-slowly-starts-realize-his-north-korea-gambit-failing

[boutons_deux]

... solved world peace

[Blake]

I don't think Trump realizes it's failing

[Pavlov]

HEY, YOU'RE NOT DIEDED FROM A NUKULAR BOMB ARE YOU? WORLD PEACE! YOU'RE WELCOME!

[boutons_deux]

I don't think Trump realizes it's failing

His reality testing is broken

[Fabbs]

HEY, YOU'RE NOT DIEDED FROM A NUKULAR BOMB ARE YOU? WORLD PEACE! YOU'RE WELCOME!
True.

[TSA]

(shrugs)

As predicted.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Publicly, Donald Trump pretends his policy toward North Korea is a historic success. The Republican president has assured the American public that he’s “solved” the problem posed by the rogue nuclear state, to the point that North Korea is no longer a threat.

“President Obama said that North Korea was our biggest and most dangerous problem,” Trump declared last month. “No longer – sleep well tonight!”

Privately, however, it’s a different story. The Washington Post reported over the weekend:


The lack of immediate progress, though predicted by many analysts, has frustrated the president, who has fumed at his aides in private even as he publicly hails the success of the negotiations. […]

[L]ate last week in meetings with his aides, Trump bristled about the lack of positive developments in the negotiations.



In a bizarre way, I find this is oddly reassuring. The reality is that the president’s gambit is failing, just as experts predicted. Confronted with these facts, Trump can either accept reality and launch a public-deception campaign in the hopes of convincing voters he’s succeeding, or he can pretend reality is what he wants it to be and genuinely believe the nonsense he’s peddling.

If the Post’s reporting is accurate, the president has chosen the former over the latter. And while the lying is obviously a problem, I take some comfort in the fact that Trump realizes his policy isn’t working.

Because it really isn’t. From the Post’s article:


Diplomats say the North Koreans have canceled follow-up meetings, demanded more money and failed to maintain basic communications, even as the once-isolated regime’s engagements with China and South Korea flourish.

Meanwhile, a missile-engine testing facility that Trump said would be destroyed remains intact, and U.S. intelligence officials say Pyongyang is working to conceal key aspects of its nuclear program.

Wait, what was that about “demanding more money”? Apparently, North Korea has requested that the United States pay for “the transportation and storage costs” associated with delivering the remains of fallen American soldiers who were killed during the Korean War.

It’s just one more aspect of the process that’s not going well.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/trump-slowly-starts-realize-his-north-korea-gambit-failing

:lol Maddow
:lol WaPo
:lol OP

1021481200261718016

[clambake]

don't worry. he'll take their word for it. lol

[Reck]

:lol Maddow
:lol WaPo
:lol OP

1021481200261718016

:lol TSA believes North Korea fake propaganda.

[TSA]

:lol TSA believes North Korea fake propaganda.

Forum dunce thinking 38 north is North Korean propaganda

“38 North is a program of the Stimson Center dedicated to providing the best possible analysis of events in and around North Korea.”

[TSA]

The Washington Post’s Impatient Reporting

Talk about getting a story half-right. The Washington Post right-hand lead story on Sunday, July 22, reports that the lack of immediate progress from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s talks in Pyongyang last week “has frustrated the president, who has fumed at his aides in private even as he publicly hails the success of the negotiations.”

What the story got right was that negotiating denuclearization will take patience.

Pompeo, with the support of President Trump, has been trying to get that message across ever since July 1, when National Security Adviser John Bolton told “Face the Nation” that Pompeo will be discussing a “plan” with the North Koreans on “how to dismantle all of their WMD and ballistic missile programs in a year.” Bolton’s timeline turned denuclearization into “mission impossible.”

What the Post story got wrong was not bothering to report whether Pompeo was authorized to put any offers as well as demands on the negotiating table and, if not, whether the failure to do so caused the North to respond the way it did.

The Post quoted liberally from skeptics and opponents of negotiations in and out of the Trump administration. It cites a “half-dozen White House aides, State Department officials and diplomats” as sources. How many of the unnamed “White House aides” are close to Bolton? How many of the other insiders have had any experience negotiating with North Korea?

The story said, “U.S. negotiators have faced stiff resistance from a North Korean team practiced in the art of delay and obfuscation.” When officials met in early June with Pompeo’s interlocutor, Kim Yong Chol, to arrange his visit, Kim “said he was authorized only to receive a letter Trump had written to Kim Jong Un. When US officials tried to raise substantive issues, Kim Yong Chol resisted and kept asking for the letter. Unable to make headway, the Americans eventually handed over the letter and ended the meeting after only an hour.” During Pompeo’s July 6-7 visit to Pyongyang, when he raised the repatriation of US Korean war remains, “the North Koreans insisted they were still not ready to commit to specific plans, according to diplomats familiar with the discussions.” When a working-level meeting was arranged to discuss the issue at the demilitarized zone on July 12, “the North [Koreans], however, kept U.S. defense officials waiting for three hours before calling to cancel, the diplomats said.” They instead asked for a meeting at the general-officers level.

The story quotes North Korea’s over-the-top reaction to the Pompeo meeting,[1] denouncing the “unilateral and gangster-like demand for denuclearization” but ignored the substance of its objections:

The U.S. side never mentioned the issue of establishing a peace regime on the Korean peninsula which is essential for defusing tension and preventing a war. It took the position that it would even backtrack on the issue it had agreed on to end the status of war under certain conditions and excuses. As for the issue of announcing the declaration of the end of war at an early date, it is the first process of defusing tension and establishing a lasting peace regime on the Korean peninsula, and at the same time, it constitutes a first factor in creating trust between the DPRK and the U.S.

Reporters failed to ask: Did Pompeo neglect to address the key US commitment at the Singapore Summit “to build a lasting and stable peace regime” in Korea? Did that lead to the North’s delayed response on the US remains? Did the North Koreans raise the peace process during the June 15 general-officers’ meeting?

Contrast the Washington Post account with CNN’s report of a teleconference by the US commander in Korea, General Vincent Brooks, with the Aspen Strategy Forum on Friday, July 20. Despite all the talk about lack of progress, he noted that the peninsula had “gone now 235 days without a provocation,” and that he had seen a slowdown in the operating tempo of North Korean armed forces. “We’ve seen some changes in terms of how much time they’re spending in the field. Some of that might be attributed to fuel shortages; some of that might be because of the renewed engagement,” he said. He added, “We are confident we’ll succeed in transferring some of the remains. Not all of them, but some of them.”

Nor did Brooks hyperventilate about intelligence reports of continuing North Korean nuclear and missile production in advance of any detailed agreement: “We don’t overreact to things like that,” he said. “If those things are true, what does it mean to us as we go forward?… It could mean several things…We know what our end point is and we know what [they’ve] agreed to, so let’s keep our eye on that and not get distracted.”

Then Brooks delivered his main message:

Our challenge now, candidly, is to continue to make progress but to make that progress in an environment that is essentially void of trust, and without trust, we’ll find it difficult to move forward. So, building that trust while that pressure continues and while the efforts for diplomacy continue is the order of the day. In many ways, the lack of trust is the enemy we now have to defeat.

The North needs to take viable action to back up Kim Jong Un’s summit commitment to denuclearize, Brooks said, but he emphasized that building trust was not a job for the North Koreans alone. “There has to be demonstrable action in that direction, or we cannot be satisfied and we probably can’t be friends, and we probably won’t be at peace,” Brooks told the audience. “So, we have to see something moving in both directions simultaneously in order to get us there.”

That’s called diplomatic give-and-take, and whatever the impatience in some parts of Washington, it will take time.

https://www.38north.org/2018/07/lsigal072318/

[clambake]

Forum dunce thinking 38 north is North Korean propaganda

“38 North is a program of the Stimson Center dedicated to providing the best possible analysis of events in and around North Korea.”

sat image, lol

[TSA]

https://www.38north.org/2018/07/sohae072318/

[clambake]

dismantling obsolete sites is wut i heard. several sources have confirmed.

[TSA]

dismantling obsolete sites is wut i heard. several sources have confirmed.

In an important first step towards fulfilling a commitment made by Kim Jong Un at the June 12 Singapore Summit, new commercial satellite imagery of the Sohae Satellite Launching Station (North Korea’s main satellite launch facility since 2012) indicates that the North has begun dismantling key facilities. Most notably, these include the rail-mounted processing building—where space launch vehicles are assembled before moving them to the launch pad—and the nearby rocket engine test stand used to develop liquid-fuel engines for ballistic missiles and space launch vehicles. Since these facilities are believed to have played an important role in the development of technologies for the North’s intercontinental ballistic missile program, these efforts represent a significant confidence building measure on the part of North Korea.

[clambake]

In an important first step towards fulfilling a commitment made by Kim Jong Un at the June 12 Singapore Summit, new commercial satellite imagery of the Sohae Satellite Launching Station (North Korea’s main satellite launch facility since 2012) indicates that the North has begun dismantling key facilities. Most notably, these include the rail-mounted processing building—where space launch vehicles are assembled before moving them to the launch pad—and the nearby rocket engine test stand used to develop liquid-fuel engines for ballistic missiles and space launch vehicles. Since these facilities are believed to have played an important role in the development of technologies for the North’s intercontinental ballistic missile program, these efforts represent a significant confidence building measure on the part of North Korea.
no shit. thats what I'm talking about.

[ducks]

[QUOTE=RandomGuy;9490069](shrugs)

As predicted.




you want America to fail and usa to go backwards because Clinton lost
YOU ARE WRONG YOU SHOULD MOVE TO RUSSIA ! You might meet a hot woman there!

[RandomGuy]

Nuance and patience good now.

[RandomGuy]

dismantling obsolete sites is wut i heard. several sources have confirmed.

Dismantling and moving to more secure sites. Trump's bellicosity probably made them re-think how survivable their facilities, I would wager

[RandomGuy]

[QUOTE=RandomGuy;9490069](shrugs)

As predicted.


you want America to fail and usa to go backwards because Clinton lost
YOU ARE WRONG YOU SHOULD MOVE TO RUSSIA ! You might meet a hot woman there!

No move to Russia!! You move to Russia!! Your leader is already sucking Putin's dick.

[ducks]

THat is why he slapped 22 sanctions on Russia
more then any president in the usa

[ducks]

Dismantling and moving to more secure sites. Trump's bellicosity probably made them re-think how survivable their facilities, I would wager

what .50 cents?

[ducks]

Clinton said Russia needs to be strong and usa wants a strong Russia not trump!

[clambake]

...the fuck you babbling about?

[RandomGuy]

THat is why he slapped 22 sanctions on Russia
more then any president in the usa

No sanctions, YOU'RE the sanctions!!

[pgardn]

:lol Maddow
:lol WaPo
:lol OP

1021481200261718016

You laugh at the Washington Post after the pure shit you put up...
Just joined the Cosmo club.

Child parts in your hamper fella.

NK themselves said they would stop zero unless we get serious. So keep up those tweets. They dismantled part of a facility that they were going to dismantle before the summit, behind schedule....

[pgardn]

THat is why he slapped 22 sanctions on Russia
more then any president in the usa

Forced by Congress and in NO WAY INITIATED by Trump.
In fact he hinted he might not sign it.

Ducks ahoy...

[ducks]

why did congress not force them before if it was just congress

[Pavlov]

why did congress not force them before if it was just congressBecause that's not how sanctions work. Congress passes sanctions. The executive implements sanctions.

[Spurtacular]

:cry

Musty-vag-blake alt :lmao

[ducks]

Because that's not how sanctions work. Congress passes sanctions. The executive implements sanctions.

got it other presidents would not sign off on them just trump

[Pavlov]

got it other presidents would not sign off on them just trumpNo, that's not how it works.

That's not how any of this works.

[Reck]

Musty-vag-blake alt :lmao

Dude, what's with you and mis-identifying members regularly? Clambake is not Blake. Not even close.

Did the "bake" trip you up? Fucking derp. smh

[Spurtacular]

Dude, what's with you and mis-identifying members regularly? Clambake is not Blake. Not even close.

Did the "bake" trip you up? Fucking derp. smh

Tranny detective chiming in. :lmao

[TeyshaBlue]

Dude, what's with you and mis-identifying members regularly? Clambake is not Blake. Not even close.

Did the "bake" trip you up? Fucking derp. smh

Clambake is a 15 year old black chick who loves her some high octane. Everybody knows this. Jeebus.

[DMX7]

Nobel Peace Prize Count: Obama 1, Trump 0.

[pgardn]

got it other presidents would not sign off on them just trump

Ducks.

Why were the sanctions implemented against these Russians in the first place?
Look at the timing Ducks, ok?
Ya migratory marsh avian ...

[Blake]

The Washington Post’s Impatient Reporting

Talk about getting a story half-right. The Washington Post right-hand lead story on Sunday, July 22, reports that the lack of immediate progress from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s talks in Pyongyang last week “has frustrated the president, who has fumed at his aides in private even as he publicly hails the success of the negotiations.”

What the story got right was that negotiating denuclearization will take patience.

Pompeo, with the support of President Trump, has been trying to get that message across ever since July 1, when National Security Adviser John Bolton told “Face the Nation” that Pompeo will be discussing a “plan” with the North Koreans on “how to dismantle all of their WMD and ballistic missile programs in a year.” Bolton’s timeline turned denuclearization into “mission impossible.”

What the Post story got wrong was not bothering to report whether Pompeo was authorized to put any offers as well as demands on the negotiating table and, if not, whether the failure to do so caused the North to respond the way it did.

The Post quoted liberally from skeptics and opponents of negotiations in and out of the Trump administration. It cites a “half-dozen White House aides, State Department officials and diplomats” as sources. How many of the unnamed “White House aides” are close to Bolton? How many of the other insiders have had any experience negotiating with North Korea?

The story said, “U.S. negotiators have faced stiff resistance from a North Korean team practiced in the art of delay and obfuscation.” When officials met in early June with Pompeo’s interlocutor, Kim Yong Chol, to arrange his visit, Kim “said he was authorized only to receive a letter Trump had written to Kim Jong Un. When US officials tried to raise substantive issues, Kim Yong Chol resisted and kept asking for the letter. Unable to make headway, the Americans eventually handed over the letter and ended the meeting after only an hour.” During Pompeo’s July 6-7 visit to Pyongyang, when he raised the repatriation of US Korean war remains, “the North Koreans insisted they were still not ready to commit to specific plans, according to diplomats familiar with the discussions.” When a working-level meeting was arranged to discuss the issue at the demilitarized zone on July 12, “the North [Koreans], however, kept U.S. defense officials waiting for three hours before calling to cancel, the diplomats said.” They instead asked for a meeting at the general-officers level.

The story quotes North Korea’s over-the-top reaction to the Pompeo meeting,[1] denouncing the “unilateral and gangster-like demand for denuclearization” but ignored the substance of its objections:

The U.S. side never mentioned the issue of establishing a peace regime on the Korean peninsula which is essential for defusing tension and preventing a war. It took the position that it would even backtrack on the issue it had agreed on to end the status of war under certain conditions and excuses. As for the issue of announcing the declaration of the end of war at an early date, it is the first process of defusing tension and establishing a lasting peace regime on the Korean peninsula, and at the same time, it constitutes a first factor in creating trust between the DPRK and the U.S.

Reporters failed to ask: Did Pompeo neglect to address the key US commitment at the Singapore Summit “to build a lasting and stable peace regime” in Korea? Did that lead to the North’s delayed response on the US remains? Did the North Koreans raise the peace process during the June 15 general-officers’ meeting?

Contrast the Washington Post account with CNN’s report of a teleconference by the US commander in Korea, General Vincent Brooks, with the Aspen Strategy Forum on Friday, July 20. Despite all the talk about lack of progress, he noted that the peninsula had “gone now 235 days without a provocation,” and that he had seen a slowdown in the operating tempo of North Korean armed forces. “We’ve seen some changes in terms of how much time they’re spending in the field. Some of that might be attributed to fuel shortages; some of that might be because of the renewed engagement,” he said. He added, “We are confident we’ll succeed in transferring some of the remains. Not all of them, but some of them.”

Nor did Brooks hyperventilate about intelligence reports of continuing North Korean nuclear and missile production in advance of any detailed agreement: “We don’t overreact to things like that,” he said. “If those things are true, what does it mean to us as we go forward?… It could mean several things…We know what our end point is and we know what [they’ve] agreed to, so let’s keep our eye on that and not get distracted.”

Then Brooks delivered his main message:

Our challenge now, candidly, is to continue to make progress but to make that progress in an environment that is essentially void of trust, and without trust, we’ll find it difficult to move forward. So, building that trust while that pressure continues and while the efforts for diplomacy continue is the order of the day. In many ways, the lack of trust is the enemy we now have to defeat.

The North needs to take viable action to back up Kim Jong Un’s summit commitment to denuclearize, Brooks said, but he emphasized that building trust was not a job for the North Koreans alone. “There has to be demonstrable action in that direction, or we cannot be satisfied and we probably can’t be friends, and we probably won’t be at peace,” Brooks told the audience. “So, we have to see something moving in both directions simultaneously in order to get us there.”

That’s called diplomatic give-and-take, and whatever the impatience in some parts of Washington, it will take time.

https://www.38north.org/2018/07/lsigal072318/

Lol 38north.org

[Blake]

Musty-vag-blake alt :lmao

Lol detective

[RandomGuy]

https://www.38north.org/2018/07/sohae072318/

So, they dismantled an engine test site that they no longer needed.

This makes Trump not frustrated how?

[RandomGuy]

why did congress not force them before if it was just congress

No Congress, you're the congress!!!

[RandomGuy]

THat is why he slapped 22 sanctions on Russia
more then any president in the usa

https://twitter.com/rvawonk/status/892775425277124610

Signing statement, says all you need to know ducks.

[rmt]

Nobel Peace Prize Count: Obama 1, Trump 0.

That's kinda like - MVP count: Nash 2, Shaq 1.

[boutons_deux]

Trash shamelessly crawled over the Pacific to tete-a-tete with a murderer, gave away war games with SK, is still empty handed :lol

Why North Korea is in no hurry to do what the US wants

Things have since taken a rockier path. Although Pyongyang appears to have begun dismantling a rocket site (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44933126),

there have been reports that it is secretly continuing its weapons programme (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44679144).

Meanwhile, Pyongyang has accused the US of "gangster-like" tactics (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44751283).

So, why has there been a lack of clear progress?

A misfit power

North Korea's notoriety and ability to capture global headlines may have led to its power being overestimated.
It appears Pyongyang has sought

to disguise a position of relative weakness as one of unqualified strength.

It framed the summit as one between equal nuclear powers. :lol another HUGE loss by loser Trash

Despite its new-found confidence as a nuclear-armed country, it remains a weak state preoccupied by its very survival.

That

its influence is disproportionately dependent on its military strength may, ironically,

make it less willing to make serious concessions than the US and others have hoped.

Military capability

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/10EFF/production/_97757396_korea_military_balance_624.png

North Korea may be one of the top military powers in Asia, but its emphasis is on quantity over quality.

Pyongyang has large numbers of battle tanks and even its navy maintains a fleet of about 70 ageing submarines (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35793980).

But it is its development of intercontinental ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons that enables the regime to make threats far beyond its immediate region.

However, to actually use this capability would be to provoke retaliation that would end the regime.

The country spends upwards of 24% of its GDP on the military (https://www.state.gov/t/avc/rls/rpt/wmeat/2017/index.htm),

chronic impoverishment explained away as the result of the actions of foreign aggressors.

The consequence is that, on all non-military measures of resources and influence, North Korea is flatlining.

The productivity of North Korea's workers is the lowest in Asia (http://www.ilo.org/ilostat/faces/wcnav_defaultSelection?_afrLoop=1421644058756563&_afrWindowMode=0&_afrWindowId=null#!%40%40%3F_afrWindowId%3Dnull%26 _afrLoop%3D1421644058756563%26_afrWindowMode%3D0%2 6_adf.ctrl-state%3D16y1zptls5_4) and it suffers from an unusually low share of natural resources.

The country relies substantially on imports of food, refined metals and fuel, while

its main export to the outside world is coal briquettes (http://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/explore/?country=178&partner=undefined&product=undefined&productClass=HS******Year=undefined&target=Product&year=2016).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44702223

NK's nuclear/ICBM "apparent" abilities are the only reason a sucker loser like Trash bows to, even salutes NK.

NK ain't giving up its nukes and ICBMs.

[RandomGuy]

https://www.38north.org/2018/07/sohae072318/

https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/11/11-kim-jong-un-farm.w710.h473.jpg

Here is Kim Jung Un meeting with Pompeo to further these negotiations.

oh wait, I'm sorry, that's Kim visiting a potato farm instead of Pompeo. :rollin

[hater]

That's kinda like - MVP count: Nash 2, Shaq 1.

:lmao

[Chris]

https://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intelligencer/2018/07/11/11-kim-jong-un-farm.w710.h473.jpg

Here is Kim Jung Un meeting with Pompeo to further these negotiations.

oh wait, I'm sorry, that's Kim visiting a potato farm instead of Pompeo. :rollin

ObpcGNCU944

[koriwhat]

lmao at all you losers wishing trump/kim denuclearization fails. so progressive in yall's thinking... anything to shit on the USA, right? yall gained everything and enjoyed the freedom that comes with being an AMERICAN and yet yall cry daily about bullshit and wish the worst for this country. the USA has done way too much for you sissy fucks! bunch of stupid fucks yall are.

[boutons_deux]

North Korea is continuing to produce nuclear bomb fuel in spite of Trump deal: Pompeo

North Korea is continuing to produce fissile material for nuclear bombs in spite of its pledge to denuclearize,

U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said on Wednesday.

Asked at a Senate committee hearing whether this was the case,

Pompeo responded to Democratic Senator Ed Markey by saying:

“Yes, that’s correct … Yes, they continue to produce fissile material.”

https://www.politicususa.com/2018/07/25/north-korea-is-continuing-to-produce-nuclear-bomb-fuel-in-spite-of-trump-deal-pompeo.html

:lol of course NK continues, because without nukes and missiles, NK is vulnerable shit hole

How's them 'war games' with SK workin' out fer ya, Trash? :lol

[Chris]

welp


1022634701167706116