Pro Wrestling in general

[Avante]

Been watching Kenny Omega over at New Japan, I really like the guy. And if you're familiar with that brand then you know we see some really unusual and different things. Obviously Jim Ross a HUGE upgrade over anything we see at the WWE.

I'm starting to learn who is who over there.

Lucha Underground is fun, kinda weird but this is pro wrestling. Johnny Mundo looking far better than he did before he left the WWE, What the hell was his name over there....duh!

I'm into the history of all, what I didn't see (pre 1958) I have researched. I find the biz fascinating. The people involved in the biz very interesting.

I do it pre Hogan and post Hogan. He is the guy who made a huge impact on the sport.

Just think once upon a time we had World Class, UWF, CWA, AWA, WCW, WWF, all on TV. Yep, the best of times.

I play this totally childish game. I have all the wrestlers (about a 1000) listed on little index card squares. Cut out and in a can. So ya reach into the can......Mr. Moto vs Seth Rollins. You can have tag teams, tournaments, make cards. I mean how else is "Superstar" Billy Graham facing off vs A.J.Styes?

[Avante]

Top 10 Pre Hogan

1.Lou Thesz
2.Bruno Smmartino
3."Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers
4.Verne Gagne
5.Killer Kowalski
6.Fred Blassie
7.Edouard Carpentier
8.Antonio Rocca
9.The Sheik
10.Harley Race

Post Hogan

1.Hulk Hogan
2."Nature Boy" Ric Flair
3.Andre the Giant
4.Dusty Rhodes
5.John Cena
6.Shawn Michaels
7.Stonecold Steve Austin
8.Randy Orton
9.The Undertaker
10.Kurt Angle

[007nites]

Top 10 Pre Hogan

1.Lou Thesz
2.Bruno Smmartino
3."Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers
4.Verne Gagne
5.Killer Kowalski
6.Fred Blassie
7.Edouard Carpentier
8.Antonio Rocca
9.The Sheik
10.Harley Race

Post Hogan

1.Hulk Hogan
2."Nature Boy" Ric Flair
3.Andre the Giant
4.Dusty Rhodes
5.John Cena
6.Shawn Michaels
7.Stonecold Steve Austin
8.Randy Orton
9.The Undertaker
10.Kurt Angle

No Bret Hart or the Rock?

Andre is more pre Hogan than post Hogan. When Andre wrestled Hogan he was a shell of his former self and could barely move. Andre's prime was 70s. Hogan didn't hit the scene till about 1980.

Post Hogan:

1. Hulk Hogan
2. The Rock
3. Stone Cold Steve Austin
4. The Undertaker
5. John Cena
6. Ric Flair
7. Shawn Michaels
8. Macho Man Randy Savage
9. Bret Hart
10. Ultimate Warrior

^^^if you want to go off of pure popularity/fame and disregard any in ring wrestling ability.

[Avante]

I don't think Andre was any bigger in the biz until after 80.

The Rock wrestled how many years? Longevity at the top is huge.

When talking the greatest of All Time Ric Flair would be 4/5. He was HUGE.

No way you can leave Dusty Rhodes off the list. He was far more important than The Rock, Ulltimate Warrior.

DUHO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ how in the hell did I whiff on Savage? Dump Angle, enter The Macho Man on my list.

I don't expect to find anyone in total agreement over this stuff, and I can see you know your stuff.

[Avante]

Trivia

1.Give me 20 one name tagteams.

1. The Roadwarriors

2.Give me 10 father/son/sons wrestlers.

3.Who started out as Jack Long?

4.Give me 10 pro footballers/wrestlers

5.Give me 30 wrestlers in the movies.

[Chucho]

No Bret Hart or the Rock?

Andre is more pre Hogan than post Hogan. When Andre wrestled Hogan he was a shell of his former self and could barely move. Andre's prime was 70s. Hogan didn't hit the scene till about 1980.

Post Hogan:

1. Hulk Hogan
2. The Rock
3. Stone Cold Steve Austin
4. The Undertaker
5. John Cena
6. Ric Flair
7. Shawn Michaels
8. Macho Man Randy Savage
9. Bret Hart
10. Ultimate Warrior

^^^if you want to go off of pure popularity/fame and disregard any in ring wrestling ability.



If just by popularity, Rey Misterio and Jeff Hardy and probably CM Punk would trounce Warrior. Their merch numbers were incredible and were the only two-three dudes who would outsell Cena merch. Throw in Rey's success on SD with the Latino demos and he definitely passes Warrior and Brett Hart.

[Avante]

All Time Top 10

1.Lou Thesz
2.Bruno Sammartino
3.Hulk Hogan
4."Nature Boy" Ric Flair
5."Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers
6.Verne Gagne
7.Andre the Giant
8.John Cena
9.Killer Kowalski
10.Dusty Rhodes

[Avante]

Ok since nobody knows trivia.

Trivia

1.Give me 20 one name tagteams.

The Bolos
The Grahams
The Kangaroos
The Medics
The Interns
The Kentickians
The Vob Brauners
The Von Sroheims
The Von Stigers
The Nielsons
The Fargos
The Daltons
The Bastiens
Demolitian
The Kalmikoffs
The Roadwarriors
The Freebirds
The Assasins


2.Give me 10 father/son/sons wrestlers.

Fritz Von Erich with Kerry, Kevin. David and Mike
Rocky Johnson and The Rock
Jerry Lawler and Brian Christopher
Tony and Matt Borne
Johnny and Greg Valentine
Bob and Brad Armstrong
The Guerrero clan
Grizzley Smith and Jake "Snake" Roberts
The Orton Family
Afa & Sika and how many relatives?


3.Who started out as Jack Long?

Harley Race

4.Give me 10 pro footballers/wrestlers

Leo "Lion" Nomellini
Wahoo McDaneil
Leon "Van Vader" White
Bill Golderg
Hacksaw Duggan
JBL
Dick the Bruiser
Tom Pritchard
Don Manoukian
Brian Pillman

5.Give me 30 wrestlers in the movies.

Hardboiled Haggarty
Lenny Montana
Primo Carnera
Hulk Hogan
Randy Orton
The Miz
Big John Studd
Kevin Nash
Batista
Triple H
Dean Ambrose
Stonecold Steve Austin
Earl "Mr.Universe" Maynard
Prof Taru Tanaka
Andre the Giant
The Big Show
Kane
Judo Gene LaBell
Samson Burke
EDGE
Ted DiBiaseJr.
Jeep Swenson
Haystacks Calhoun
Pepper Martin
Mil Mascaras
El Santo
The Great Kali
Terry Funk
Mike Mazurki

[007nites]

Trivia

1.Give me 20 one name tagteams.

1. The Roadwarriors

2.Give me 10 father/son/sons wrestlers.

3.Who started out as Jack Long?

4.Give me 10 pro footballers/wrestlers

5.Give me 30 wrestlers in the movies.

Without googling.

Question 1

Dudley Boys
Hardy Boys
Nasty Boys
The Bashams
Harlem Heat
The Steiners
The Rockers
The Power Trip
Kai En Tai
The Head Bangers

Question 2

Dusty Rhodes/Goldust/Cody Rhodes
Ted DiBease/Ted DiBease Jr
Rocky Johnson/The Rock
Cow Boy Bob Orton/Randy Orton
Jerry the King Lawler/Brian Christopher
Vince McMahon/Shane McMahon
IRS/Bray Wyatt
Ric Flair/David Flair
Davey Boy Smith/David Smith
Scott Hall/Cody Hall

Question 3

Dont know

Question 4

Bill Goldberg
Big Van Vader
Lawrence Taylor
Lex Luger
Brock Lesnar (Does he count?)
Thats about all i know

Question 5. Im just going to name the successful/some what successful ones here. Not going to name 30.

The Rock
Stone Cold
Cena
Hogan
Piper
Jesse Ventura
Nash
Batista
Andre the Giant
Goldberg



This list can go on and on. Not going to list 30 lol.

[Avante]

Without googling.

Question 1

Dudley Boys
Hardy Boys
Nasty Boys
The Bashams
Harlem Heat
The Steiners
The Rockers
The Power Trip
Kai En Tai
The Head Bangers

Question 2

Dusty Rhodes/Goldust/Cody Rhodes
Ted DiBease/Ted DiBease Jr
Rocky Johnson/The Rock
Cow Boy Bob Orton/Randy Orton
Jerry the King Lawler/Brian Christopher
Vince McMahon/Shane McMahon
IRS/Bray Wyatt
Ric Flair/David Flair
Davey Boy Smith/David Smith
Scott Hall/Cody Hall

Question 3

Dont know

Question 4

Bill Goldberg
Big Van Vader
Lawrence Taylor
Lex Luger
Brock Lesnar (Does he count?)
Thats about all i know

Question 5. Im just going to name the successful/some what successful ones here. Not going to name 30.

The Rock
Stone Cold
Cena
Hogan
Piper
Jesse Ventura
Nash
Batista
Andre the Giant
Goldberg



This list can go on and on. Not going to list 30 lol.

Good job!!!

Love to see those who know the sport.

[Mitch]

Good job!!!

Love to see those who know the sport.

You got a ranking for best wrasslers on technical ability alone over the last 30yrs, avante?

[Avante]

You got a ranking for best wrasslers on technical ability alone over the last 30yrs, avante?

That isn't something I've thought about, but right off the top of me and just tossing out the first to come to mind.

Kurt Angle
Brett Hart
Dolpf Ziggler
Seth Rollins

In "pro"wrestling the most important element is selling your character putting butts in the seats. Mic skills actually more important than real wrestling ability. Dusty Rhodes a great example. he was fantastic on the mic, couldn't wrestle a lick, same with Hulk Hogan.

[Mitch]

That isn't something I've thought about, but right off the top of me and just tossing out the first to come to mind.

Kurt Angle
Brett Hart
Dolpf Ziggler
Seth Rollins

In "pro"wrestling the most important element is selling your character putting butts in the seats. Mic skills actually more important than real wrestling ability. Dusty Rhodes a great example. he was fantastic on the mic, couldn't wrestle a lick, same with Hulk Hogan.

That's true, although I was aiming for just the wrasslin part of wrasslin, pulling off athletic moves. I stopped watching most of it years ago, but I remember Benoit and Bret Hart really stood out when it came down to wrasslin. Then you had Kurt angle, you can tell he had a good base to get into the game after being a gold medalist wrestler.

[Avante]

That's true, although I was aiming for just the wrasslin part of wrasslin, pulling off athletic moves. I stopped watching most of it years ago, but I remember Benoit and Bret Hart really stood out when it came down to wrasslin. Then you had Kurt angle, you can tell he had a good base to get into the game after being a gold medalist wrestler.

There have been a handful of NCAA wrestlers in the rasslin' biz, the most important was Verne Gagne. Cowboy Dick Hutton an NWA World Champion a great college wrestler also.

In a real wrestling match with NCAA rules I can't see anyone beating Angle, yep, not even Lesnar.

I miss Benoit.

[Mitch]

There have been a handful of NCAA wrestlers in the rasslin' biz, the most important was Verne Gagne. Cowboy Dick Hutton an NWA World Champion a great college wrestler also.

In a real wrestling match with NCAA rules I can't see anyone beating Angle, yep, not even Lesnar.

I miss Benoit.

Just saw Kurt was 230-240lbs, was surprised he's bigger than he looks. Yeah he'd easily toss Lesnar around on a mat.

Yeah, any wrasslin fan misses benoit i figure despite how terrible a crime he did. You don't see that much talent in the game very often, one of my favorite matches was the submission match vs kurt - lots of great moves.

From what I've seen from Japanese wrasslin, they love the technical side of the game while we're more into characters in the US

[Avante]

Just saw Kurt was 230-240lbs, was surprised he's bigger than he looks. Yeah he'd easily toss Lesnar around on a mat.

Yeah, any wrasslin fan misses benoit i figure despite how terrible a crime he did. You don't see that much talent in the game very often, one of my favorite matches was the submission match vs kurt - lots of great moves.

From what I've seen from Japanese wrasslin, they love the technical side of the game while we're more into characters in the US

That was a hell of a match also on my list of favorites.

New Japan is FAR FAR better than anything out there when it comes to....wrestling. They don't spend a lot of time on cartoonish BS, a little but nothing like what we see from the WWE.

We have six hours of New Japan just waiting for the time to watch (my son and I)

[Architects08]

Pro wrestling is fuckin garbage. Get a life old faggot.

[Avante]

Pro wrestling is fuckin garbage. Get a life old faggot.

Now too damn bright are ya half pint? So how many other things are you totally stupid about? Go ahead I love long lists.

Queers in hiding, not good.

[DJR210]

Pretty sure you specifically hated on Kenny Omega when saying you thought all that flippy shit was garbage and all that mattered was the characters.. now you're a huge fan :lol

[Chucho]

Best technical wrestlers in the last 30 years...

Benoit
Daniel Bryan
Ric Flair
Dynamite Kid
Misawa
Bret Hart
HBK
Owen Hart
Mr. Perfect
Kobashi
Hella Japs actually
Dean Malenko


Rofl @ Dolph Ziggler.

[DJR210]

Best technical wrestlers in the last 30 years...

Benoit
Daniel Bryan
Ric Flair
Dynamite Kid
Misawa
Bret Hart
HBK
Owen Hart
Mr. Perfect
Kobashi
Hella Japs actually
Dean Malenko


Rofl @ Dolph Ziggler.

You catch All In?

[Chucho]

You catch All In?

Saw some highlights. Want to catch Omega/Pentagon and the hardcore match. The fuckin Joey Ryan thing tho...fuck mang.


It's very awesome to know that Cody Rhodes and a load of "no-name" (to the mainstream obviously) sold out MSG. Wrestling is the most popular it's been in ten years at least. Now, we just need Vince and Stephanie to die so the main product is more like NXT.

The E has the greatest roster of talent ever assembled as far as in-ring work. The fact they give you zero reason to care about 85% of the roster is what kills them. Scripted promos and pushing the same super-man face they've pushed the majority of the last 30 years wont work.

[DJR210]

Saw some highlights. Want to catch Omega/Pentagon and the hardcore match. The fuckin Joey Ryan thing tho...fuck mang.


It's very awesome to know that Cody Rhodes and a load of "no-name" (to the mainstream obviously) sold out MSG. Wrestling is the most popular it's been in ten years at least. Now, we just need Vince and Stephanie to die so the main product is more like NXT.

The E has the greatest roster of talent ever assembled as far as in-ring work. The fact they give you zero reason to care about 85% of the roster is what kills them. Scripted promos and pushing the same super-man face they've pushed the majority of the last 30 years wont work.

Yeah I just want to catch that main event.. I can only tolerate so much wrestling these days.. and :lol Joey Ryan is garbage. He made a surprise appearance here in SA for a recent RoH show and I was one of the few in attendance that wasn't amused by his faggotry. He gave some queer in the front row the blowpop outta his mouth and the fan couldn't have been any more happy about sharing spit with him.

[Chucho]

Yeah I just want to catch that main event.. I can only tolerate so much wrestling these days.. and :lol Joey Ryan is garbage. He made a surprise appearance here in SA for a recent RoH show and I was one of the few in attendance that wasn't amused by his faggotry. He gave some queer in the front row the blowpop outta his mouth and the fan couldn't have been any more happy about sharing spit with him.

A male ring rat that was happy to get hepatitis from a never-was who fucks up the suspension of disbelief.

Same here, don't watch Raws or SDs anymore. Will watch a PPV on a Sunday, tho, especially over football. Summerslam was a great show as far as wrestling was going and Joe needs to be champion ASAP.

Fuck dudes up and then mack to their women...holy shit, that's a license to print money.

[Avante]

Pretty sure you specifically hated on Kenny Omega when saying you thought all that flippy shit was garbage and all that mattered was the characters.. now you're a huge fan :lol

First time I heard Charlie Patton "The King of Mississippi Delta Blues", I thought he sucked. It took me awhile to "get it" now he's the best example of that music.

It's taken me awhile to warm up to New Japan. BUT.....still prefer the WWE.

[DJR210]

First time I heard Charlie Patton "The King of Mississippi Delta Blues", I thought he sucked. It took me awhile to "get it" now he's the best example of that music.

It's taken me awhile to warm up to New Japan. BUT.....still prefer the WWE.

WWE has a ton of talent they're sitting on but how can you prefer it to NJPW? If you are somewhat interested in NJPW now, but don't necessarily prefer the junior high flyer style check out the matches from the most recent G1 Climax.. Omega had amazing matches with everyone they matched him up with, high flyer or not.. Check out some Kota Ibushi and Tetsuya matches too, all three of them are killing it right now in Japan

https://www.iwnerd.com/dave-meltzer-star-ratings-njpw-g1-climax-28-2018/


(https://www.iwnerd.com/dave-meltzer-star-ratings-njpw-g1-climax-28-2018/)

[Avante]

WWE has a ton of talent they're sitting on but how can you prefer it to NJPW? If you are somewhat interested in NJPW now, but don't necessarily prefer the junior high flyer style check out the matches from the most recent G1 Climax.. Omega had amazing matches with everyone they matched him up with, high flyer or not.. Check out some Kota Ibushi and Tetsuya matches too, all three of them are killing it right now in Japan

https://www.iwnerd.com/dave-meltzer-star-ratings-njpw-g1-climax-28-2018/


(https://www.iwnerd.com/dave-meltzer-star-ratings-njpw-g1-climax-28-2018/)

Pro rasslin' really is a lot like a soap opera. The angles. mic skills, fueds, the silliness of it all is a big part of the attraction. And as you know those in that biz are some pretty interesting characters. A lot more to this than actual..wrestling...ability. The politics involved, the behind the scenes going ons.

Dusty Rhodes, Hulk Hogan, are gigantic in the biz, yet neither one of them could "wrestle" a lick. The Roadwarriors?

I get the...WOW~~~...that we see in New Japan but.....without a story to tell, an angle to sell it's just a cheap thrill, nothing sustains.

Right now The Shield have reunited and the whole roster is down on them, so what now? Where is Triple H vs The Undertaker going, hell....Shawn Michaels? Orton vs Jeff Hardy....is somebody going to really get hurt, they are pushing it.

I have seen a dozen or so (three in waiting) New Japan shows, think I've seen the roster. Yes the action is amazing, so many.......never seen that before. But, they come up short selling.........can't wait to see where this goes.

Yes, Kenny Omega is fantastic.

[DJR210]

Pro rasslin' really is a lot like a soap opera. The angles. mic skills, fueds, the silliness of it all is a big part of the attraction. And as you know those in that biz are some pretty interesting characters. A lot more to this than actual..wrestling...ability. The politics involved, the behind the scenes going ons.

Dusty Rhodes, Hulk Hogan, are gigantic in the biz, yet neither one of them could "wrestle" a lick. The Roadwarriors?

I get the...WOW~~~...that we see in New Japan but.....without a story to tell, an angle to sell it's just a cheap thrill, nothing sustains.

Right now The Shield have reunited and the whole roster is down on them, so what now? Where is Triple H vs The Undertaker going, hell....Shawn Michaels? Orton vs Jeff Hardy....is somebody going to really get hurt, they are pushing it.

I have seen a dozen or so (three in waiting) New Japan shows, think I've seen the roster. Yes the action is amazing, so many.......never seen that before. But, they come up short selling.........can't wait to see where this goes.

Yes, Kenny Omega is fantastic.

You need to watch more if you think NJPW doesn't have character, gimmicks, light story line.. they're just more more subtle unless you're Bullet Club..

Look at Tetsuya Naito's entire gimmick.. It's all based around the fact that he was force pushed as a baby face for so many years, finally gets to headline Wrestle Kingdom, then gets subbed out of the main event because of a shitty fan reaction (kinda like Batista did when they tried to force an Orton vs Batista WM XXX main event).. He goes down to Mexico and reinvents himself into the "tranquilo" gimmick so basically gets over for being exactly opposite of what NJPW wanted.. now his gimmick is to constantly shit on NJPW's legacy every chance he gets. It's not much, but it adds another layer to the match for sure.

[Avante]

You need to watch more if you think NJPW doesn't have character, gimmicks, light story line.. they're just more more subtle unless you're Bullet Club..

Look at Tetsuya Naito's entire gimmick.. It's all based around the fact that he was force pushed as a baby face for so many years, finally gets to headline Wrestle Kingdom, then gets subbed out of the main event because of a shitty fan reaction (kinda like Batista did when they tried to force an Orton vs Batista WM XXX main event).. He goes down to Mexico and reinvents himself into the "tranquilo" gimmick so basically gets over for being exactly opposite of what NJPW wanted.. now his gimmick is to constantly shit on NJPW's legacy every chance he gets. It's not much, but it adds another layer to the match for sure.

There is no pro rasslin' without story lines, gimmicks, but..............as we all know the Japanese do lack "peronality" they can't sell emotion worth a damn. Hell, just look at the facial expressions of the crowd, there it is. In a word.....bland.

Every week in the WWE we find an interesting character in some new predictament, angle, bit. And we do see a whole other level of interesting personalities.

Kenny Omega stands out like a sore thumb in New Japan because he is charismatic, interesting and extremely talented, BUT....he would just blend in over in the WWE. Just another...............

YES....variety is the spice of life, so if I want....WOW...never saw that before....I need some New Japan and the great Jim Ross. But when it comes to getting lost in fueds, politics, angles,gimmicks, interesting characters.......WWE.

[Chucho]

There is no pro rasslin' without story lines, gimmicks, but..............as we all know the Japanese do lack "peronality" they can't sell emotion worth a damn. Hell, just look at the facial expressions of the crowd, there it is. In a word.....bland.

Every week in the WWE we find an interesting character in some new predictament, angle, bit. And we do see a whole other level of interesting personalities.

Kenny Omega stands out like a sore thumb in New Japan because he is charismatic, interesting and extremely talented, BUT....he would just blend in over in the WWE. Just another...............

YES....variety is the spice of life, so if I want....WOW...never saw that before....I need some New Japan and the great Jim Ross. But when it comes to getting lost in fueds, politics, angles,gimmicks, interesting characters.......WWE.


Just because you don't understand the culture and their spin on it doesn't mean Puro isn't everything that is "pro rasslin.".

The biggest difference between Jap wrestling and American wrestling is that EVERY match has a reason- even if it's for ranking position- nothing happens for no reason other than filling tv show time.

You're ignorant to Puro and it's obvious. You don't know what good wrestling is, you think Roman Reigns should be booked like Cena. You probably LOVED TNA from 07-15 and thought it was amazing.

[Avante]

Just because you don't understand the culture and their spin on it doesn't mean Puro isn't everything that is "pro rasslin.".

The biggest difference between Jap wrestling and American wrestling is that EVERY match has a reason- even if it's for ranking position- nothing happens for no reason other than filling tv show time.

You're ignorant to Puro and it's obvious. You don't know what good wrestling is, you think Roman Reigns should be booked like Cena. You probably LOVED TNA from 07-15 and thought it was amazing.

Then there is always reality.

Have never watched TNA other than flipping stations and there it was. So it got 3-5 minutes of......this shit sucks. So add that to all the times you are 100% wrong about. What I have watched however is....

WWA out of LA
Big Time Wresting...NORCAL
CWA...Memphis
AWA
UWF
World Class...Texas
WWWF/WWF/WWE
WCW
TONS of Youtube videos

Been into the rasslin' since the late 50's. I think I have it figured out by now and a pretty good judge of what's good.

Dude, are you capable of sticking to the topic of a thread? Why this need to be a total asshole? Just talk about the wrestling guy and cool it with the YOU ARE....ok punk?

YES....I'm just now starting to pay attention to New Japan so OBVIOUSLY I'm ignorant of......where is the count?.....why no interesting story lines?....why only an hour? BUT....the action is second to none, constantly......wow! The characters are not as interesting.

Dude, trust me I know what's good, ok?

[Chucho]

Then there is always reality.

Have never watched TNA other than flipping stations and there it was. So it got 3-5 minutes of......this shit sucks. So add that to all the times you are 100% wrong about. What I have watched however is....

WWA out of LA
Big Time Wresting...NORCAL
CWA...Memphis
AWA
UWF
World Class...Texas
WWWF/WWF/WWE
WCW
TONS of Youtube videos

Been into the rasslin' since the late 50's. I think I have it figured out by now and a pretty good judge of what's good.

Dude, are you capable of sticking to the topic of a thread? Why this need to be a total asshole? Just talk about the wrestling guy and cool it with the YOU ARE....ok punk?

YES....I'm just now starting to pay attention to New Japan so OBVIOUSLY I'm ignorant of......where is the count?.....why no interesting story lines?....why only an hour? BUT....the action is second to none, constantly......wow! The characters are not as interesting.

Dude, trust me I know what's good, ok?

You don't know what's good. And this is on topic. You were discussing Jap wrestling and you don't understand it and said it has no storylines. It does. Just because you're culturally inept and ignorant doesn't mean what you said is true.

[Avante]

You don't know what's good. And this is on topic. You were discussing Jap wrestling and you don't understand it and said it has no storylines. It does. Just because you're culturally inept and ignorant doesn't mean what you said is true.

Wrong once again. Dude, do you ever get anything right?

When it comes to angles, mic skills. generating interest in the character, storylines...New Japan totally sucks, that from a guy with far more experience than you have...ok? Hell, I can talk rasslers you've never even heard of, trust me.

BUT...............if just talking in ring action, yep.....LOVE IT. BUT....it does end there. Everything else........BORINNGGGGGGGGG.......ok guy?

Now how about....ok ok ok I was wrong about you and TNA......ok?

[Avante]

Mr. Moto
Rikidozan
Sholhi "Giant" Baba
Kenji Shibuya
Mitzu Arawakawa
Mr. Saito
Mr. Fuji
Prof.Taru Tanaka
Antoni Inoki
Jushin "Thunder" Liger
The Great Muta
Jumbo Tsuruta

All had one thing in common......they all sucked at selling the story. In a word....bland. The Japanese struggle with showing emotions. We all see it. And we see it in the rasslin', they aren't .....exciting.

Just look at the fans in New Japan, there it is right there. Totally different that what we see with all other Pro Rasslin' crowds.

[Chucho]

Wrong once again. Dude, do you ever get anything right?

When it comes to angles, mic skills. generating interest in the character, storylines...New Japan totally sucks, that from a guy with far more experience than you have...ok? Hell, I can talk rasslers you've never even heard of, trust me.

BUT...............if just talking in ring action, yep.....LOVE IT. BUT....it does end there. Everything else........BORINNGGGGGGGGG.......ok guy?

Now how about....ok ok ok I was wrong about you and TNA......ok?

All you got to do is watch the interviews after matches to get the storylines in New Japan. That's as old school as good old school rasslin gets.

You don't understand it. You mock the culture because they don't react raucously like Americas do. You don't understand it.

You think Roman Reigns is over. You don't understand what's good.

[Avante]

All you got to do is watch the interviews after matches to get the storylines in New Japan. That's as old school as good old school rasslin gets.

You don't understand it. You mock the culture because they don't react raucously like Americas do. You don't understand it.

You think Roman Reigns is over. You don't understand what's good.

Wrong again.

Dude, when you have seen Freddie Blassie in his prime, Ray Stevens, Dusty Rhodes, Ric Flair sell an angle, trust me......New Japan totally sucks when it comes to that aspect of the sport. And I don't give a damn what you think, yep.....you're 100% wrong.

Dude, it's not about understanding shit, it's about the Japanese are unemotional.....ok guy? I've been there, ok?

Roman Reigns has been in how many Wrestlemania main events....why?

Dude, are you ever right about anything?

[Chucho]

Wrong again.

Dude, when you have seen Freddie Blassie in his prime, Ray Stevens, Dusty Rhodes, Ric Flair sell an angle, trust me......New Japan totally sucks when it comes to that aspect of the sport. And I don't give a damn what you think, yep.....you're 100% wrong.

Dude, it's not about understanding shit, it's about the Japanese are unemotional.....ok guy? I've been there, ok?

Roman Reigns has been in how many Wrestlemania main events....why?

Dude, are you ever right about anything?

Showing you don't know...per par. Reigns is in Wrestlemania events because Vince loves him. He doesn't draw and the last three years with him on top, the company's live event attendance has gone down, Raw shows heavier than SD, noticeably. He's so disliked, he even fucked up the Undertaker's retirement. Just stop.

You were wrong about why people didn't like working with Vader.

You think Hogan was the biggest star ever when Austin made thrice the money in 1/3rd the time.

You think Reigns is money.

[Avante]

Showing you don't know...per par. Reigns is in Wrestlemania events because Vince loves him. He doesn't draw and the last three years with him on top, the company's live event attendance has gone down, Raw shows heavier than SD, noticeably. He's so disliked, he even fucked up the Undertaker's retirement. Just stop.

You were wrong about why people didn't like working with Vader.

You think Hogan was the biggest star ever when Austin made thrice the money in 1/3rd the time.

You think Reigns is money.

Wrong again, wow~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well aware of all that as usual, but it simply doesn't matter. Who was given the job to retire The Undertaker....Roman Reigns. Who just ran off Brock Lesnar....Roman Reigns Who said anything about money? I was talking about who is the top Dawg in the WWE, yep....Roman Reigns. Why is that? Why does Vince and myself who know more about the sport tan anyone else, have him ruling?

I was 100% right about Vader, even showed you where guys had said they didn't like working with him. What you didn't read it?

Hulk Hogan is without question the biggest rasslin' star ever. Dude, people who have never seen a rasslin' match know who Hulk Hogan is.

Dude, Do you get off being wrong all the time?


3. Ric Flair – Not as athletic as Savage, but better on the mic. Flair is No. 1 on a lot of people’s lists, but he did most of his great work in the minor leagues of the NWA and WCW.
2. “Stone Cold” Steve Austin – Austin was the face of the WWF/WWE during its most popular period ever in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Great on the mic, great in the ring.
1. Hulk Hogan – Sorry wrestling geeks. It’s true. If you took a survey of 100 people on the streets of New York today – in 2017 – and asked them to name one pro wrestler, Hulk Hogan would still be mentioned more than anyone else. He was the first person in the history of man to take pro wrestling mainstream.

[Chucho]

Wrong again, wow~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well aware of all that as usual, but it simply doesn't matter. Who was given the job to retire The Undertaker....Roman Reigns. Who just ran off Brock Lesnar....Roman Reigns Who said anything about money? I was talking about who is the top Dawg in the WWE, yep....Roman Reigns. Why is that? Why does Vince and myself who know more about the sport tan anyone else, have him ruling?

I was 100% right about Vader, even showed you where guys had said they didn't like working with him. What you didn't read it?

Hulk Hogan is without question the biggest rasslin' star ever. Dude, people who have never seen a rasslin' match know who Hulk Hogan is.

Dude, Do you get off being wrong all the time?


3. Ric Flair – Not as athletic as Savage, but better on the mic. Flair is No. 1 on a lot of people’s lists, but he did most of his great work in the minor leagues of the NWA and WCW.
2. “Stone Cold” Steve Austin – Austin was the face of the WWF/WWE during its most popular period ever in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Great on the mic, great in the ring.
1. Hulk Hogan – Sorry wrestling geeks. It’s true. If you took a survey of 100 people on the streets of New York today – in 2017 – and asked them to name one pro wrestler, Hulk Hogan would still be mentioned more than anyone else. He was the first person in the history of man to take pro wrestling mainstream.


Doesn't make Hogan the top wrestler ever. That's Austin. Austin sold more ppvs, sold out more arenas than Hogan did in his WWF and WCW runs where he was the top face and top heel in a 12 year period. Austin did that in 3 years. Obliterated every financial record Hogan set. Took the WWE from nearly bankrupt in late 97 to a billion dollar company that went public in less than 14 months.

You can't be this stupid. Austin is the most successful wrestler, ever. Money says so. Statistics say so. Vince McMahon says so. Doesn't matter what Avante says or thinks.

Stay on the shallow end of the rasslin pool, old man.

[Avante]

Doesn't make Hogan the top wrestler ever. That's Austin. Austin sold more ppvs, sold out more arenas than Hogan did in his WWF and WCW runs where he was the top face and top heel in a 12 year period. Austin did that in 3 years. Obliterated every financial record Hogan set. Took the WWE from nearly bankrupt in late 97 to a billion dollar company that went public in less than 14 months.

You can't be this stupid. Austin is the most successful wrestler, ever. Money says so. Statistics say so. Vince McMahon says so. Doesn't matter what Avante says or thinks.

Stay on the shallow end of the rasslin pool, old man.


Dude..........................IMPACT.............. ....ok stupid?

One of a ton.....


Not the best looking, not the most talented, and not the most respected, however, Hulk is The Biggest draw and most popular and well known wrestler in wrestling history! People who don't watch wrestling know the name Hulk Hogan! How many fans in attendance for Hogan vs Andre, Hogan vs Rock, Hogan vs Warrior? Remember, pro wrestling is not olympic wrestling, it's not entirely real like a sport, it's entertainment! Hulk and Vince M have done more for wrestling than anybody else! From Japan, Canada, and the States, Hulk has received the loudest and longest ovations/cheers in history! Love him or hate him, Hulk Hogan is, by far, the Greatest wrestler of all time! Facts are Facts!

Hulk Hogan couldn't wrestle a lick, ok dummy? I am talking about his place in ....Pro Rasslin;....history, got it? NOBODY....made a bigger ...IMPACT...on the sport than Hulk Hogan.

Rookies, sheesh~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Make No Mistake About It: Hulk Hogan Had The Biggest Impact On Wrestling

[DJR210]

Wrong once again. Dude, do you ever get anything right?

His analysis was spot on

[Avante]

His analysis was spot on

Steve Ausin is not a bigger name that Hulk Hogan. The impact Hogan made on the biz has never been matched.

[Chucho]

Steve Ausin is not a bigger name that Hulk Hogan. The impact Hogan made on the biz has never been matched.


You're saying that subjectively you idiot. I am giving you quantifiable evidence to prove who the biggest star is.

Senile Pedo: "Hulk Hogan made the biggest impact ever. Everyone knows it".

Expert Chucho: "Well, to show who made the biggest impact, let's talk figures. It's safe to say the most impact would be the person who the most people came to see and that's Austin. He drew way more money, sold out more arenas and sold more PPVs in a 3 year run than Hogan did in a decade.

Want to talk about impact? How about the fact that under Austin, the WWF KILLED off all of it's competition and became a nearly global monopoly?" He impacted the business well beyond Hogan's impact.

Get over it. You're 100% wrong, per par. Are you going to deny these facts like you denied little Pinoy girls their innocence? You can't deny it the way Judy can't deny herself a full carrot cake for dessert.

[Avante]

You're saying that subjectively you idiot. I am giving you quantifiable evidence to prove who the biggest star is.

Senile Pedo: "Hulk Hogan made the biggest impact ever. Everyone knows it".

Expert Chucho: "Well, to show who made the biggest impact, let's talk figures. It's safe to say the most impact would be the person who the most people came to see and that's Austin. He drew way more money, sold out more arenas and sold more PPVs in a 3 year run than Hogan did in a decade.

Want to talk about impact? How about the fact that under Austin, the WWF KILLED off all of it's competition and became a nearly global monopoly?" He impacted the business well beyond Hogan's impact.

Get over it. You're 100% wrong, per par. Are you going to deny these facts like you denied little Pinoy girls their innocence? You can't deny it the way Judy can't deny herself a full carrot cake for dessert.

Do you have any idea at all what is even being talked about here?

PRE...HOGAN vs POST..HOGAN....ok?

No pro wrestler ever did what Hulk Hogan did and if you can't see it then that explains why you think little kids can run a 20,00, dude......just how damn dumb are you?

HOGAN....is why others could do what they did, you really can't figure that out?

Work with me here stupid.

Where was pro football before THE GREATEST GAME EVER PLAYED....Colts vs Giants sudden death game?

Stupid, what IMPACT did Elvis make, how about The Beatles?

All that really has to be explained to you, really?

Dummy, Hogan is the guy who brought fans to the sport, you really don't know that?

What an idiot.

[Chris]

The territories are not technically back, but you can see a rise in non-WWE sanctioned promotions. Interesting to see what happens when Vince calls it quits or bites the dust. TNA was the closest things to real competition, but they decided to hire Vince Russo (twice) and of course Hogan and Nash came in and sucked everything dry. Dixie Carter - yikes!

NXT (Triple H) has been outperforming Vince's Raw and Smackdown PPVs for years....Vince just needs to move on already and let it ride.

[Chucho]

The territories are not technically back, but you can see a rise in non-WWE sanctioned promotions. Interesting to see what happens when Vince calls it quits or bites the dust. TNA was the closest things to real competition, but they decided to hire Vince Russo (twice) and of course Hogan and Nash came in and sucked everything dry. Dixie Carter - yikes!

NXT (Triple H) has been outperforming Vince's Raw and Smackdown PPVs for years....Vince just needs to move on already and let it ride.


Make no mistake about it. TNA was never considered competition. TNA considered Vince competition but when your're best show is still about 3 million away from your "competitor"'s show on the same time and you sell only 10% to 30% of the monthly ppvs they do, you're not a competitor. Giving old dudes jobs that weren't working doesn't make you a competitor. LOLTNA.

And yeah, Vince needs to die. He's never giving up power unless he's physically incapable . He's a control freak and a workaholic.

[Avante]

Make no mistake about it. TNA was never considered competition. TNA considered Vince competition but when your're best show is still about 3 million away from your "competitor"'s show on the same time and you sell only 10% to 30% of the monthly ppvs they do, you're not a competitor. Giving old dudes jobs that weren't working doesn't make you a competitor. LOLTNA.

And yeah, Vince needs to die. He's never giving up power unless he's physically incapable . He's a control freak and a workaholic.

Dude....

Vince needs to die??? We are talking fake ass rasslin' here, ok little man? Vince need to die??? Dude, what's wrong with you?

[Avante]

I miss how things were when we had all the territories. Wild Bull Curry in Texas, Dangerous Danny McShane, Out west Ray Stevens, Pepper Gomez, Fred Blassie, The Detroyer. In the midwest Dick the Brusier, Verne Gagne, while up in Canada Czaya Nandor, Killer Kowalski. Back East Bruno Sammartino, "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers. Down south Jackie Fargo, Sputnik Monroe.

Best of times.

Must have been 50 big name rasslers,

[augo]

Wrestling is good. Those guys make a big work on their body and skills to perform such fights. I don't often watch WWE on TV but I use the app on my tablet to know better about fight results and fighters' statistics. Here (http://appotatos.com/wwe) is the description. It allows watching after all of the competitions and viewing the best moments using smartphone or tablet. Very convenient stuff, especially while on the road.

[JohnnyZ]

And I think boxing is a hundred times more spectacular and more interesting than wrestling.

Being into the history of both, I'd be hard pressed to come up with which one is more anything. Both a long and interesting story,

[JohnnyZ]

The biggest difference from back in the day and today is tagteams.

The Scufflin' Hillbillies
The Torres Bros
The Sharpes
The Brunetties
The Neilsons
The Fargos
The Valiants
The Grahams
The Von Stroheims
The Von Brauners
The Fabulous Kangaroos
The Von Stigers
The Stanlees
The Kalmikoffs
The Gallaghers
The Mongols


Al those masked teams.

[JohnnyZ]

Braun Strowman vs any NFLer in a five yard war, hmmm?

[Sir Johnny]

Kenny Omega
Cody Rhodes
Dean Ambrose
Randy Orton
Dustin Rhodes
Chris Jericho
CM Punk
The Young Bucks

Hmmmm?

[TDMVPDPOY]

Kenny Omega
Cody Rhodes
Dean Ambrose
Randy Orton
Dustin Rhodes
Chris Jericho
CM Punk
The Young Bucks

Hmmmm?

AEW doesnt need former wwe wrestlers or even the retirees/friends and relatives of the first 2nd generation wrestlers, how u think wcw failed...

AEW should have ppv where they vs other indigo promotions...nwjp is a good example they can cross over ppv since most of them use to work for them, and ALL-IN worked....

fck wwe, always the same matches, fueds, wrong idiots getting pushed down viewers throats

[Sir Johnny]

AEW doesnt need former wwe wrestlers or even the retirees/friends and relatives of the first 2nd generation wrestlers, how u think wcw failed...

AEW should have ppv where they vs other indigo promotions...nwjp is a good example they can cross over ppv since most of them use to work for them, and ALL-IN worked....

fck wwe, always the same matches, fueds, wrong idiots getting pushed down viewers throats

I'm with you but they could use some "names" getting started.

Yes the WWE has been sucking for awhile now, first thing they should do is dump Smackdown. Just have two Raw twice a week with the full roster.

[Avant]

Did we see the most BIG NAMES ever in one angle as we on the last RAW?

Ric Flair
Triple H
Sting
Ricky Steamboat
Seth Rollins
Shawn Michaels
Kurt Angle
Batista

[Chucho]

Did we see the most BIG NAMES ever in one angle as we on the last RAW?

Ric Flair
Triple H
Sting
Ricky Steamboat
Seth Rollins
Shawn Michaels
Kurt Angle
Batista

Is this a real angle or just a segment?

[Avant]

Is this a real angle or just a segment?

Faking a Ric Flair B-day celebration was the angle they used to bring back Batista, not sure why all that was needed.

[Avant]

Lesnar vs Rollins
Orton vs Styles
Triple H vs Batista
McIntyre vs Reigns

So far so good.

[kevin80]

Lesnar vs Rollins
Orton vs Styles
Triple H vs Batista
McIntyre vs Reigns

So far so good.

You're absolutely right pal.

[Chris]

R.I.P Harley Race



https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. ZuRCD32LEOXk-VldYiA7vgAAAA%26pid%3DApi&f=1

[Chucho]

^^ Looks like a white Redd Fox in that pic.

RIP, Harley. Legit bad ass.

[Sir Johnny]

First time I saw Harley Race he was going with Jack Long and the tag partner of Larry "Ax" Hennig the father of Curt. This in Fresno in the early 60's.

They didn't stay long.

As Harley Race he had one of the great careers and would have to be on every serious wrestling fans top 20 list, some might have him in the top10.

RIP

[Mitch]

First time I saw Harley Race he was going with Jack Long and the tag partner of Larry "Ax" Hennig the father of Curt. This in Fresno in the early 60's.

They didn't stay long.

As Harley Race he had one of the great careers and would have to be on every serious wrestling fans top 20 list, some might have him in the top10.

RIP

'Sup avante, who do you think had the best product back in the day before Vince had WWF take over?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/NWA_Professional_Wrestling_Territories.png

[Sir Johnny]

Mitch

The WWWF which was ran by McMahans dad was the best because they had Madison Square Garden and the great "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers ans Bruno Sammartino.

All I got was both Cali shows as far as TV went but I did buy the magazines which kept me up on all of it. There were at least 100 "name" rasslers back then, every territory had their stars. Some like Jackie Fargo never left the south. While others roamed.

That was the very best of times.

[Mitch]

Sounds like the real golden age of wrasslin, Avante. All those wrestling associations must have butted heads regularly, who would put on the better show and who had the bigger star. We thought it was tits when WCW and WWF were feuding

[Sir Johnny]

Sounds like the real golden age of wrasslin, Avante. All those wrestling associations must have butted heads regularly, who would put on the better show and who had the bigger star. We thought it was tits when WCW and WWF were feuding

Actually, the deal was to act like no other wrestling association existed back then.

Like I mentioned all I actually saw was Cali wrestling, TV was different back then. LA wrestling was far better than NORCAL. The biggest names in the biz were back east other than Ray Stevens NORCAL and Fred Blassie SOCAL. The AWA was big with Verne Gagne but the NWA/WWWF had so many of the top guys back then, far more "action" going on there.

So many legends were around then....

Lou Thesz
Buddy Rogers
Bruno Sammartino
Verne Gagne
Killer Kowalski
Antonio Rocca
Edouard Carpentier
The Sheik
Dick the Brusier
Fritz Von Erich
Fred Blassie
Ray Stevens

and another 50ish.

[Mitch]

Actually, the deal was to act like no other wrestling association existed back then.

Like I mentioned all I actually saw was Cali wrestling, TV was different back then. LA wrestling was far better than NORCAL. The biggest names in the biz were back east other than Ray Stevens NORCAL and Fred Blassie SOCAL. The AWA was big with Verne Gagne but the NWA/WWWF had so many of the top guys back then, far more "action" going on there.

So many legends were around then....

Lou Thesz
Buddy Rogers
Bruno Sammartino
Verne Gagne
Killer Kowalski
Antonio Rocca
Edouard Carpentier
The Sheik
Dick the Brusier
Fritz Von Erich
Fred Blassie
Ray Stevens

and another 50ish.

Cool stuff, I wonder if all the broadcasted footage was archived somewhere. Be cool to watch a full block of wrasslin in the 60s-70s way before my time

[Sir Johnny]

Cool stuff, I wonder if all the broadcasted footage was archived somewhere. Be cool to watch a full block of wrasslin in the 60s-70s way before my time

Youtube....

Lou Thesz vs Verne Gagne
Buddy Rogers vs Killer Kowalski
Lou Thesz vs Buddy Rogers
Fred Blassie vs Bruno Sammartino

As a starter.

Also....Pat O' Conner vs Buddy Rogers....this was the biggest gate ever (at that time) with over 30, 000 in the stands.

The biggest difference is this....

Any time a guy breaks a rule, it was a big deal. Which made things real dramatic.

[Mitch]

Youtube....

Lou Thesz vs Verne Gagne
Buddy Rogers vs Killer Kowalski
Lou Thesz vs Buddy Rogers
Fred Blassie vs Bruno Sammartino

As a starter.

Also....Pat O' Conner vs Buddy Rogers....this was the biggest gate ever (at that time) with over 30, 000 in the stands.

The biggest difference is this....

Any time a guy breaks a rule, it was a big deal. Which made things real dramatic.

Rules doesn't seem to matter too much these days, I remember a match ending abruptly in the wwe because of a closed hand hit :lol

[Chris]

this is really good NWA gettinga reboot :tu props to Billy Corgan


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