What is the Most You'd Want PATFO to Trade for Butler?

[Chinook]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24690557/jimmy-butler-tom-thibodeau-meeting-expected-set-tone-2018-19-minnesota-timberwolves-season

Assuming this ends up in a trade, and that PATFO could outbid other teams, where is your red line?

Is one year of Butler (and Bird rights) worth Murray and/or Walker plus unprotected picks? Is it worth taking on Dieng's contract, which is so bad that it makes Patty's deal seem reasonable?

Is a core of DeRozan, Butler and Aldridge good enough to beat the Warriors? If not, how close is it (like an injury away or a complete roster overhaul)?

[Robz4000]

Worth Murray or Walker plus picks? Yes. Both? No. I'd take on Dieng's contract if they'd only ask for one of Murray/Walker and take one of Gasol/Patty.

With a Butler/DeRozan/LMA core the Spurs would be on Houston's level, but would lack the defensive ability to beat GS even if they lost one of Curry/Durbeta.

[Spurtacular]

I'm not sold on Butler as a big difference maker in the first place; but I would consider him to be an upgrade over Gay.

[Spurtacular]

Worth Murray or Walker plus picks? Yes. Both? No.

If you believe in mortgaging the future for going from a 0.05 % chance of winning a title to 0.35 % chance of winning a title.

[cd021]

Gasol, Mills, Walker, Spurs 2019 first and Toronto's 2019 1st

For

Butler and Dieng

I think that is more than fair value. Tbh

[exstatic]

I’m not a fan, at this point. He’s pretty near his sell by date, and will be wanting a big contract next summer. He also
Cannot be considered a mentor in any way shape or form. Young players are an anathema to him. He’s flogged on them at both stops, so far. Also, he’s a rental. Unless it’s an extend and trade, you do NOT offer them your best young players.

Also, china doll. He’s only played over 70 games twice.

[Chinook]

In a vacuum, I think Walker and Murray have near-equal value. But in a trade for Butler, I'd be much more willing to trade Lonnie. Jimmy replaces what you'd hope Walker could do this year while also adding a ton more. But the team would lack a starting PG and secondary defender on the perimeter, which does hurt the team's chances at winning a series against Golden State. The most I'd trade I think is Walker, the Raps pick and a Spurs pick with decent protections in addition to Gasol's contract is my line. That gives the team a clear path to contend this season while not compromising the ability to tank if something goes wrong. Simply put, Butler is too unpredictable to be worth more. Even if he wants to re-up, the team may not be all that willing to give him a full-max deal given his age and injury history. They also have to consider him a risk in the locker room.

[Robz4000]

If you believe in mortgaging the future for going from a 0.05 % chance of winning a title to 0.35 % chance of winning a title.

Butler is an all-star caliber player that can play at both ends and happens to play the Spurs' biggest position of need. He isn't on Kawhi's level but he's as close as they could realistically get to replacing him. He's also young enough to where the Spurs could wait out the Dubs for another two years while developing the young players they'd keep (one of Murray/Walker, White, Metu). Heck, it also puts the Spurs another 3&D player away from being a challenge to the Dubs.

Not sure I'd want to pay Butler max money next offseason but from a basketball standpoint he makes perfect sense if the Spurs don't have to sell the farm for him.

[DAF86]

I would see if the Wolves would be interested on taking DeRozan. A DeRozan/Butler pairing on the wings would be an awful fit, specially with Murray at PG. We would be the worst 3 pt shooting team on the league.

[acoelho1]

The problem is getting Butler doesn’t make us better than the Warriors and no way do I trade Walker or Murray. The 2 have the potential of being special. This is Year will be a throw away although I expect the Spurs to be very good.

[Chinook]

Butler is an all-star caliber player that can play at both ends and happens to play the Spurs' biggest position of need. He isn't on Kawhi's level but he's as close as they could realistically get to replacing him. He's also young enough to where the Spurs could wait out the Dubs for another two years while developing the young players they'd keep (one of Murray/Walker, White, Metu). Heck, it also puts the Spurs another 3&D player away from being a challenge to the Dubs.

Not sure I'd want to pay Butler max money next offseason but from a basketball standpoint he makes perfect sense if the Spurs don't have to sell the farm for him.

Deeks updated his capulator. Doing the Butler trade that I proposed a few posts ago, then giving Jimmy a full-max deal results in this cap situation:

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=781350485b9ee84a28a31833316413

That would leave the team with about $7 Million under the tax with 11 guys on the roster. That's not bad, but that number comes from letting everyone walk this summer, including Gay. The lack of a sixth man feels like a really big deal for how much the team invested in its stars. They'd have a few expiring contracts to use for trades, but they'd have to give up more future assets white not knowing if two of their main guys would remain on the team. It also doesn't help that Poeltl and Murray would be free agents and thusly would need new deals.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Paying max contracts to 3rd tier stars is how you ruin a franchise tbh. It's why the Wolves are in the mess that they are in since they waaay overpaid for Wiggins and they can't trade him for anything. Say what you want about Demar, but he was leading the Raptors to the 1 seed and a conference finals while Butler was barely an 8th seed with the Bulls in the pathetic East and losing in the first round. Add on that he's injury prone and a bad leader = no thanks to him being a Spur.

[Chinook]

I would see if the Wolves would be interested on taking DeRozan. A DeRozan/Butler pairing on the wings would be an awful fit, specially with Murray at PG. We would be the worst 3 pt shooting team on the league.

I wouldn't trade DeRozan for Butler. DeRozan fits the timeline with Aldridge better, and he fills a more important role for the offense. I don't disagree that that would be a problematic perimeter group, though. The biggest draw-back to this trade is that they'd have little time to develop chemistry before the club had to make a decision on sinking a ton of money into keeping it together. Given enough time and a willingness to make it work, I think the three could fit together. But I wouldn't expect it to work much better than OKC's trio did last season.

[tbdog]

If it was Paul George, I'll try and pull the trigger. But Butler doesn't fit with the current makeup of this team. He needs to ball just as much as DD, and both are not great outside shooters to fit along with another. Besides, I think a healthy Gay gives 80% of Butler for a third of the cost. I would like the Spurs to try and nab Middleton if we are going to give up on our youth.

[baseline bum]

I wouldn't gut the team for a second tier star player.

[Chinook]

If it was Paul George, I'll try and pull the trigger. But Butler doesn't fit with the current makeup of this team. He needs to ball just as much as DD, and both are not great outside shooters to fit along with another. Besides, I think a healthy Gay gives 80% of Butler for a third of the cost. I would like the Spurs to try and nab Middleton if we are going to give up on our youth.

I like Mids and think he's a great fit for the team. However, I don't see MKE wanting to do a trade with SA. SA's two best assets are Walker and Murray, and the Bucks have their own versions in Donte and Brogdon. I would take what SA has, but I don't see them being appealing to Bucks as rebuilding or contending pieces. They might like Poeltl if they are over Thon, and they might like Pau just as a player on his own. But neither guy seems worth moving Middleton for.

Maybe the Bucks straight-up don't want to re-sign him and are willing to do something like Middleton and Lopez for Gasol, both picks and Milutinov. That's a steep price from my perspective, and I'd still argue the Bucks could balk. Regardless, the Spurs would face a similar financial situation as I outlined earlier, with the possible exception that they could get Middleton for a few million cheaper per season. That difference could mean keeping Gay or reserving the MLE to replace him. Compared to a situation with Butler, the team would be more balanced but less talented. Ultimately, I'm not sure they'd be better prepared to face GS, though at least they'd be younger.

[Chinook]

I wouldn't gut the team for a second tier star player.

That's nice to know. But I assume there's a gap between that sentiment and one proposed by exstatic implying that Jimmy with his contract situation and other baggage is undesirable.

[TheGreatYacht]

This roster is basically Aldridge, DeRozan, and shit. They can take guys 3-14 on this roster plus a first

[Spurtacular]

Butler is an all-star caliber player that can play at both ends and happens to play the Spurs' biggest position of need. He isn't on Kawhi's level but he's as close as they could realistically get to replacing him. He's also young enough to where the Spurs could wait out the Dubs for another two years while developing the young players they'd keep (one of Murray/Walker, White, Metu). Heck, it also puts the Spurs another 3&D player away from being a challenge to the Dubs.

Not sure I'd want to pay Butler max money next offseason but from a basketball standpoint he makes perfect sense if the Spurs don't have to sell the farm for him.

He's overrated on offense. Very middle of the road. And he has a history of being a chemistry killer.

[cd021]

I would add to my original post that if a trade were to happen at the trade deadline, I would do only Gasol, and the Spurs and Toronto's picks for Butler.

[RD2191]

Go all in tbh. If Pop really doesn't want to blow it up and rebuild before he retires then go all in and try to win a title.

[RD2191]

This roster is basically Aldridge, DeRozan, and shit. They can take guys 3-14 on this roster plus a first

Pretty much. Spur fan overrating their scrubs per usual. :lol

[tbdog]

I just don't see Butler moving the needle. And why give up young talent that we are in control of for a rental?

[Chinook]

I just don't see Butler moving the needle. And why give up young talent that we are in control of for a rental?

I do think Butler is better than some in here are implying. He's not as versatile as Kawhi on defense or as dominant of an offensive player, but he can defend the best players in the league and get others involved on O in a way Leonard can't. Had the Spurs had Butler instead of DeRozan, then I'd absolutely want the team to take a shot at contending. The Warriors seem like a juggernaut, but I'd compare SA favorably to any other team in the league if they had a core of Butler/Aldridge/some offensive-orient star guard.

[sananspursfan21]

Pass!! I really think Murray and Walker have potential to be special

[cool cat]

Gasol, Mills, Walker, Spurs 2019 first and Toronto's 2019 1st

For

Butler and Dieng

I think that is more than fair value. Tbh
If we can do it without losing Walker I’m down.

[Chinook]

Pass!! I really think Murray and Walker have potential to be special

I understand not wanting to do this trade for a number of reasons, but I don't get this reasoning. Butler is a boat. Walker and Murray could become anything. They might even end up becoming boats. Jimmy is already "special". Walker having the potential to be that good doesn't make him a better keep given that he could easily not reach that level and if he does won't likely get there until the team loses Aldridge and DeRozan.

[exstatic]

I just don't see Butler moving the needle. And why give up young talent that we are in control of for a rental?

I think a lot of teams will feel that way. I’m sure their offers will be scant.

[RD2191]

Plus if we land Jimmy we get Kyrie next season. :lobt2:

[exstatic]

Plus if we land Jimmy we get Kyrie next season. :lobt2:

Dude, Kyrie isn’t coming. Papa Irving and Uncle Dennis are besties, AND we won’t have diddly for cap space. Kyrie goina NY.

[mo7888]

If I were going after butler I'd rather create cap space next summer and try and get him that way. I just don't think he moves the needle enough this year. That said, I don't like his fit here being 29 years old and not being a great 3 point shooter. If I were wanting a player off of that team it would be Wiggins who's 23. His outside shot isn't any better than butler's but he has a chance to improve and his timeline fits our younger guys better. I realize he isn't on the market but, there's a chance (albeit small) that he could be soon if butler will commit to resigning there if thibs moves a guy or two that he doesn't get along with. Unlikely...yep.... but I'd rather roll with him than Jimmy IF I have to give up real assets.

[Chinook]

If I were going after butler I'd rather create cap space next summer and try and get him that way. I just don't think he moves the needle enough this year. That said, I don't like his fit here being 29 years old and not being a great 3 point shooter. If I were wanting a player off of that team it would be Wiggins who's 23. His outside shot isn't any better than butler's but he has a chance to improve and his timeline fits our younger guys better. I realize he isn't on the market but, there's a chance (albeit small) that he could be soon if butler will commit to resigning there if thibs moves a guy or two that he doesn't get along with. Unlikely...yep.... but I'd rather roll with him than Jimmy IF I have to give up real assets.

I think the majority of fans think Wiggins is hot garbage, and I'd assume a number of front offices agree there. Some may disagree, and I can't say which way PATFO would come down on it. But personally, I would need to sit down and really see where his head is before I'd make a deal for him. Even then, I'd have to be giving up nothing of value (like Gasol and Mills straight up). Wiggins is net-negative player and doesn't seem interested in getting better. Physically, there's no reason why he's not a high-impact two-way guy. But he hasn't been with the Wolves. DeRozan is significantly better than him.

[exstatic]

If I were going after butler I'd rather create cap space next summer and try and get him that way. I just don't think he moves the needle enough this year. That said, I don't like his fit here being 29 years old and not being a great 3 point shooter. If I were wanting a player off of that team it would be Wiggins who's 23. His outside shot isn't any better than butler's but he has a chance to improve and his timeline fits our younger guys better. I realize he isn't on the market but, there's a chance (albeit small) that he could be soon if butler will commit to resigning there if thibs moves a guy or two that he doesn't get along with. Unlikely...yep.... but I'd rather roll with him than Jimmy IF I have to give up real assets.

Wiggins is a Twinkie, a Ding Dong, a Ho Ho. He’s NBA junk food. He lacks the desire to be great, and that’s not something you can’t teach like a rip through, a post up, or a crossover.

[TheGreatYacht]

Pretty much. Spur fan overrating their scrubs per usual. :lol
:lol

[TimmyBuckets]

This roster is basically Aldridge, DeRozan, and shit. They can take guys 3-14 on this roster plus a first


He's overrated on offense. Very middle of the road. And he has a history of being a chemistry killer.


Pretty much. Spur fan overrating their scrubs per usual. :lol

[Immortal Spur]

don't want.. always felt he was overrated..

[DMC]

It doesn't matter except for ticket sales. If you are PATFO, do you want to keep raising young players in the hopes you hit a gem now and then, with no big 3 around to sell tickets, or do you adopt the well worn system of bringing in names to fill seats to weather the multi-year storm of mediocrity? Either way you're not going to win a ring.

[venitian navigator]

I think the majority of fans think Wiggins is hot garbage, and I'd assume a number of front offices agree there. Some may disagree, and I can't say which way PATFO would come down on it. But personally, I would need to sit down and really see where his head is before I'd make a deal for him. Even then, I'd have to be giving up nothing of value (like Gasol and Mills straight up). Wiggins is net-negative player and doesn't seem interested in getting better. Physically, there's no reason why he's not a high-impact two-way guy. But he hasn't been with the Wolves. DeRozan is significantly better than him.

I agree but I could give something more for him. I'd give Mills, Gasol (that's Butler's mate) and a pick or two...no more. However, that's the same offer I could make for Butler, considering he's a rental. In any case, imho, if by mid season we still have a problem at sf, market solution should be in the sense of a phoenix player...they have quite four players on the same role that could all fit our potential need...(Ariza, Jackson, Warren, Bridges).

[Fusternino]

Wiggins has one of the worst contracts in the league along with Griffin and Wall. I'd make the Wolves attach picks/assets (preferably Patton and Bates-Diop and a future 1st) to him for Gasol/Mills/Forbes. Tell the Wolves it's a not a deal otherwise.

[mo7888]

I think the majority of fans think Wiggins is hot garbage, and I'd assume a number of front offices agree there. Some may disagree, and I can't say which way PATFO would come down on it. But personally, I would need to sit down and really see where his head is before I'd make a deal for him. Even then, I'd have to be giving up nothing of value (like Gasol and Mills straight up). Wiggins is net-negative player and doesn't seem interested in getting better. Physically, there's no reason why he's not a high-impact two-way guy. But he hasn't been with the Wolves. DeRozan is significantly better than him.

I don't disagree with you one bit. It's a rather large gamble. He has all the physical attributes you could want but he has all of the issues you mention as well. I believe our staff can help him reach his potential but it's not a sure thing by any means. All I'm really saying is, I'd rather gamble on him than give up value for a 29 year old Butler.
If I'm making the call in not giving up much for either but Wiggins is my preferred player based on where we are today.

[venitian navigator]

Wiggins has one of the worst contracts in the league along with Griffin and Wall. I'd make the Wolves attach picks/assets (preferably Patton and Bates-Diop and a future 1st) to him for Gasol/Mills/Forbes. Tell the Wolves it's a not a deal otherwise.

it just depend if you believe he can play better defense than the one he played till now...he's a max contract under total control for five years. No player options...that means that, if you like the player, you have time to work on his game and his mind. Obviously he's a risk...but he can cìshoot and imho, just for this reason, he should be a better fit for us than Butler...

[TimDunkem]

Pretty much. Spur fan overrating their scrubs per usual. :lol

"B..b...b...the future! Who on the Spurs roster will make videos of themselves licking their girlfriend's feet if we trade Murray? :cry"

[exstatic]

it just depend if you believe he can play better defense than the one he played till now...he's a max contract under total control for five years. No player options...that means that, if you like the player, you have time to work on his game and his mind. Obviously he's a risk...but he can cìshoot and imho, just for this reason, he should be a better fit for us than Butler...

Read my sig for Pop's thought on changing players 'minds'. PATFO doesn't believe it can be done. You also don't take on a 'project' with that kind of a contract. What incentive is there for Wiggins to change anything about his game or effort? None.

[Fusternino]

it just depend if you believe he can play better defense than the one he played till now...he's a max contract under total control for five years. No player options...that means that, if you like the player, you have time to work on his game and his mind. Obviously he's a risk...but he can cìshoot and imho, just for this reason, he should be a better fit for us than Butler...

He's an extremely inefficient midrange player who has shown no real improvement since entering the league. I think the $$$ amount for his contract isn't so bad because it was signed as extension so there's that. Maybe if he would actually change his attitude once coming here then it would be worth it. He has all the physical tools but just has shown no real desire to improve. That's a long contract so the trade would need to be an absolute fleece in other areas for me to be excited about it.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

A core of Aldridge, Butler and DeRozan locked for 3 seasons can be formidable. Surround them with the right shooters and defenders and they're as good as Rockets but cheaper and with a longer window. Of course nowhere near as good as GS are right now but a 3 year window is a long one.

If Butler would commit long term I'd offer Minnesota 3 of : White, Walker, both 1sts. Hesitant about Murray, but probably would trade him as it's clear he's not a great fit next to these 3.

[Pavlov]

I wouldn't gut the team for a second tier star player.This.

I'd like to see the team play at least one game before an overhaul.

[Fusternino]

If it was Paul George, I'll try and pull the trigger. But Butler doesn't fit with the current makeup of this team. He needs to ball just as much as DD, and both are not great outside shooters to fit along with another. Besides, I think a healthy Gay gives 80% of Butler for a third of the cost. I would like the Spurs to try and nab Middleton if we are going to give up on our youth.

Agree with you on what Gay gives us and Butler needing the ball. Not sure what the point would be and he's probably too old for us to develop him much further.

[exstatic]

A core of Aldridge, Butler and DeRozan locked for 3 seasons can be formidable. Surround them with the right shooters and defenders and they're as good as Rockets but cheaper and with a longer window. Of course nowhere near as good as GS are right now but a 3 year window is a long one.

If Butler would commit long term I'd offer Minnesota 3 of : White, Walker, both 1sts. Hesitant about Murray, but probably would trade him as it's clear he's not a great fit next to these 3.

I'd be surprised if GS didn't disintegrate next summer. They basically asked Klay to take a $75M haircut by signing an extension instead of playing out his contract for a new one. He refused. Durant also seems to be fence sitting. I think if Klay bolts, and the Lakers seem VERY interested, that Durant will also leave (NYK?). That drops GS back into the pack again.

[tmtcsc]

Pass!! I really think Murray and Walker have potential to be special

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img845/8231/dnd.gif

[TimmyBuckets]

Offer everything except Walker, Murray, Derozan, LMA. Not a believer in these youngsters, but they're all we have for the future I guess.

[cd021]

Offer everything except Walker, Murray, Derozan, LMA. Not a believer in these youngsters, but they're all we have for the future I guess.

Yeah, LMA and DDR would probably never be on the table. Spurs, assuming that their is mutual interest, would certainly want to form a new big 3.

If Butler tells Minnesota he wants out before the start of the season, then I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being Gasol, Walker and the Spurs and Toronto's 1st round picks for Butler.

[rastaspur]

Derozan.

[DAF86]

I wouldn't trade DeRozan for Butler. DeRozan fits the timeline with Aldridge better, and he fills a more important role for the offense. I don't disagree that that would be a problematic perimeter group, though. The biggest draw-back to this trade is that they'd have little time to develop chemistry before the club had to make a decision on sinking a ton of money into keeping it together. Given enough time and a willingness to make it work, I think the three could fit together. But I wouldn't expect it to work much better than OKC's trio did last season.

Butler is a considerable better player than DeRozan, tbh.

[Chillen]

Getting Butler would cost us one of LMA or Derozan. Like Minny really wants to help the Spurs assemble a new big 3 of LMA, Derozan and Butler. They will trade him East or to Lakers probably. If your Spurs FO you try to land Jimmy if possible without giving up LMA and Derozan but it's unlikely they would do a deal without one of them included.

[RD2191]

I'd move LMA for butler tbh. LMA is a good player and all but his style sucks in the playoffs. Maybe not his style but just him in general. :lol

[r0drig0lac]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24690557/jimmy-butler-tom-thibodeau-meeting-expected-set-tone-2018-19-minnesota-timberwolves-season

Assuming this ends up in a trade, and that PATFO could outbid other teams, where is your red line?

Is one year of Butler (and Bird rights) worth Murray and/or Walker plus unprotected picks? Is it worth taking on Dieng's contract, which is so bad that it makes Patty's deal seem reasonable?

Is a core of DeRozan, Butler and Aldridge good enough to beat the Warriors? If not, how close is it (like an injury away or a complete roster overhaul)?

with Pop? yes

[TimmyBuckets]

with Pop? yes

Bingo. With Pop, even this current shithole of a squad has some type of a shot.

[exstatic]

Butler is a considerable better player than DeRozan, tbh.

He's also a china doll of the highest order. In 6 seasons, he's only played 70 or more twice. He's also a rental.

[exstatic]

Getting Butler would cost us one of LMA or Derozan. Like Minny really wants to help the Spurs assemble a new big 3 of LMA, Derozan and Butler. They will trade him East or to Lakers probably. If your Spurs FO you try to land Jimmy if possible without giving up LMA and Derozan but it's unlikely they would do a deal without one of them included.

Why on earth would you trade either of our All NBA players for a rental?

[DAF86]

He's also a china doll of the highest order. In 6 seasons, he's only played 70 or more twice. He's also a rental.

It doesn't have to be a rental, tbh. Butler has expressed some kind of interest on joining SA. I'm sure he wouldn't be too quick on dismissing the idea of signing with us long term. Trading for him would make signing him a lot more possible, that's for sure.

[exstatic]

It doesn't have to be a rental, tbh. Butler has expressed some kind of interest on joining SA. I'm sure he wouldn't be too quick on dismissing the idea of signing with us long term. Trading for him would make signing him a lot more possible, that's for sure.

Unless he does an extend and trade, he HAS to be considered a rental, and appropriate resources sent out in exchange. You don't send out good young pieces HOPING that he'll re-sign.

If he let's it be know that he wants a trade, the offers they will receive will be rental level, from everyone.

[cd021]

He's also a china doll of the highest order. In 6 seasons, he's only played 70 or more twice. He's also a rental.

If Butler requests a trade, he'll give Minny a list of teams that he is amenable to- probably the Lakers, Knicks and Spurs. It's not quite an assurance that he'll stay but if they were able to trade for him, then he'd likely only consider signing with the Lakers and Knicks and they don't have two other All-stars, Pop and most importantly his bird rights.

His injury history is a concern but throwing out his rookie year, he's missed 75 games in six seasons or about 12.5 games. That's about 68 games played per season. That's not iron man level but it's not like he's Orlando version of Grant Hill either.

[Payote75]

I'm still wondering what the trade was when they were pitching that diva whiny worm to stay with us if it was indeed Kembra or something else cause I truly do not think this team is terrible a another solid piece under pops system would make us compete. Especially if we not giving up the farm.

[cd021]

Murray
DDR
Butler
Bertans
LMA

Mills
White
Belinelli
Gay
Poeltl

That's a hell of a rotation. If it means giving up Gasol, Walker, and potentially both the Spurs and Raptor's picks- or at least the better of the two picks, then I am all in.

[TD 21]

If/when, I doubt the Timberwolves trade Butler to a Western Conference team or for a package headlined by an unestablished player or pick. Similar to the Spurs, expect their goal to be to remain as competitive as possible.

The 76ers would probably be the favorites. If they receive some level of confidence in his re-signing, they can offer what they did for Leonard: Saric, Covington, Heat '21 1st.

Sure, there's no star in it, but the Timberwolves are already paying Wiggins, aka the poor man's DeRozan, to be that, so they might as well give him the usage and surrounding pieces to give him the best chance of doing so. They also still have Teague, a prime, league average starter. So unlike the Spurs, they don't need a featured offensive perimeter player in return to remain competitive.

Even if the two things I said at the beginning didn't apply, I doubt the Timberwolves would be interested in either DeRozan (rich man's version, but 6 years older than Wiggins and negative overlap) or Murray/Walker (too much uncertainty for either to be the centerpiece for a top 10-15 player)

I don't even think the Spurs would be interested in doing either DeRozan (clearly inferior, but Spurs material, durable, signed for 2-3 seasons and no championship ceiling either way) or Murray/Walker (A Butler/Aldridge/DeRozan core would be ill-fitting, likely have chemistry issues and he'd probably walk).

[Chillen]

Why on earth would you trade either of our All NBA players for a rental?

I wouldn't just saying that's probably in reality what it's gonna take to get Butler to Spurs even if he is a rental. Minny will probably trade him East. If Spurs can keep their duo of DeMar and LaMarcus and just trade Pau, Patty, Walker or something for Butler I am all for it. Do not want to give up DeMar and LaMarcus for a Jimmy Butler rental.

[SouthTexasRancher]

This could have been done when we had KaWhitter but, it'd be hard to make numbers match now without giving up too many players. But, if Minny was willing to take Mills and Gasol and one of DM, DW, or LW4 plus a draft pick. If they would take Dejounte then Derrick could move into DJ's spot. With 4 talented players on the starting unit I think DW could end up doing quite well as a starting PG. But, with Patty and Manu gone in this scenario I don't think Pop would be very comfortable without an experienced ball handler. This is especially so with guys like DD, LMA and RG on the team now, Pop has to make a strong run for trophy #6 in the next couple of years. Adding Butler would or should get us much closer except we don't have a true PG to direct the team. Bottom line is I doubt PATFO will do anything at this point especially when you look at the salary situation. But, I'd love to have Butler or Porter.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

anyone and any picks except lma and ddr

[cd021]

This could have been done when we had KaWhitter but, it'd be hard to make numbers match now without giving up too many players. But, if Minny was willing to take Mills and Gasol and one of DM, DW, or LW4 plus a draft pick. If they would take Dejounte then Derrick could move into DJ's spot. With 4 talented players on the starting unit I think DW could end up doing quite well as a starting PG. But, with Patty and Manu gone in this scenario I don't think Pop would be very comfortable without an experienced ball handler. This is especially so with guys like DD, LMA and RG on the team now, Pop has to make a strong run for trophy #6 in the next couple of years. Adding Butler would or should get us much closer except we don't have a true PG to direct the team. Bottom line is I doubt PATFO will do anything at this point especially when you look at the salary situation. But, I'd love to have Butler or Porter.

Gasol for Butler should work straight up. Butler is only making $20 million this season. Mills and Gasol together would be around $28 million.

Probably Gasol, LW4, and the better of the two 1st rounder's would be the outline of potential trade.

[cool cat]

Crazy stat I didn't know, the Timberwolves have the lowest win % in NBA history, even lower then the Clips.

[szkorhetz]

If it was Paul George, I'll try and pull the trigger. But Butler doesn't fit with the current makeup of this team. He needs to ball just as much as DD, and both are not great outside shooters to fit along with another. Besides, I think a healthy Gay gives 80% of Butler for a third of the cost. I would like the Spurs to try and nab Middleton if we are going to give up on our youth.
Agreed. Having two wings, who are both below average three point shooters will clog the lane even more, and mess up the spacing.

[ElNono]

How's his health? Wasn't he hurt last season?

[Chinook]

How's his health? Wasn't he hurt last season?

Tore his meniscus then chose the surgery route to return ASAP.

[sananspursfan21]

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img845/8231/dnd.gif


Looks like someone hasn’t seen their ratings for ‘potential’ on 2k19 :rolleyes

[BillMc]

I'd be surprised if GS didn't disintegrate next summer. They basically asked Klay to take a $75M haircut by signing an extension instead of playing out his contract for a new one. He refused. Durant also seems to be fence sitting. I think if Klay bolts, and the Lakers seem VERY interested, that Durant will also leave (NYK?). That drops GS back into the pack again.

This. I think this could be the last year of the GS run, but the Lakers may be a pain in the ass again depending on LeBron's health and who they get to join him. Rockets will be around but their window is short and no D'Antoni team will ever triumph in the end. Spurs could be in the thick of things again in as little as 2 years if PATFO make the right moves. Pop may even stick around longer than we think.

[BillMc]

Isn't Butler a known malcontent? He'd have to come cheap for me to be happy, and doubt the Wolves wouldn't find better offers.

[exstatic]

Isn't Butler a known malcontent? He'd have to come cheap for me to be happy, and doubt the Wolves wouldn't find better offers.

Malcontent is probably too strong, but he is NOT a mentor of young players, and that's been documented at both of his NBA stops.

[gambit1990]

1042092218608058368

[RD2191]

1042092218608058368

Pulling a Kawhi :lol

[baseline bum]

I'm still wondering what the trade was when they were pitching that diva whiny worm to stay with us if it was indeed Kembra or something else cause I truly do not think this team is terrible a another solid piece under pops system would make us compete. Especially if we not giving up the farm.

It was probably Derozan.

[Ice009]

Darn, if Jimmy tells them he wants out, I hope the Spurs try to get him.

The other day I heard that the Raptors wanted him. I really don't want him to go there.

[SouthTexasRancher]

Gasol for Butler should work straight up. Butler is only making $20 million this season. Mills and Gasol together would be around $28 million.

Probably Gasol, LW4, and the better of the two 1st rounder's would be the outline of potential trade.

I could live with anything that rids us of Gasol's contract. When I had done the Butler trade on the ESPN Trade Machine back in July and knew there was no hope left of keeping KaWhitter I had some form of trade that worked where Minny got KL and we got Jimmy Butler. When I worked it with Gasol and Mills it was where we'd get Jimmy Butler and Taj Gibson at Power Forward. There was one other spur involved but, I don't remember who I used. I just don't think Pop would give up his two facvorite guys...PG & PM. But we still need an athletic wing with experience and who can score consistently. JMHO

FWIW:I'd still trade PG & PM for Otto Porter. It would give Washington some NBA Finals experience off their bench and in the locker room/practice. Gotta dream big these days.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Pulling a Kawhi :lol

Only if he doesn't show up.

[Proxy]

1042092218608058368

Kawhi-PTSD triggers reading tweets like this

[Mugen]

I mean if he agrees to an extension, anybody besides DD & LMA should be available tbh.

[NASpurs]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1042479195371266050

[marinoman]

Mills walker and a first. See if you can give up pau

[exstatic]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1042479195371266050

Welp...

[marinoman]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1042479195371266050
Surprised no lakers but clippers

[KDKSpurs24]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1042479195371266050
I see it as one less spot to compete for in the playoffs! They’re our first game too so good warmup.

[KDKSpurs24]

Surprised no lakers but clippers
I assume he wants to be the main guy.

[exstatic]

Surprised no lakers but clippers

Not everyone is interested in playing with LeBron.

[BillMc]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1042479195371266050

Nets, Clippers, and Knicks. I mean, yeah, cap space, but hardly quality franchises . Ambition seems to be money, big city. It's MELO 2.0. Winning???? Meh....

[BillMc]

Surprised no lakers but clippers

So, if you're West do you trade for Butler now or holdout out for Kawhi for next year?

[iGetbuckets]

So, if you're West do you trade for Butler now or holdout out for Kawhi for next year?

Trade for butler and Kawhi will come

[exstatic]

So, if you're West do you trade for Butler now or holdout out for Kawhi for next year?

I don't think they can get both. They don't have the cap room to absorb him in trade now, which means they'll need to send out some of those ending contracts that will create their room for next summer. I doubt Minnesota will take on any long term deals.

I would LMAO if West trades for Butler, and Magic signs Klay next summer, shutting the Nephew out of the LA market.

[kobyz]

Murray, Walker and Gasol for Jimmy, do it Brent!

[KDKSpurs24]

Murray, Walker and Gasol for Jimmy, do it Brent!
Not serious are you?

[baseline bum]

I don't think they can get both. They don't have the cap room to absorb him in trade now, which means they'll need to send out some of those ending contracts that will create their room for next summer. I doubt Minnesota will take on any long term deals.

I would LMAO if West trades for Butler, and Magic signs Klay next summer, shutting the Nephew out of the LA market.

I don't see them trading for Butler either. They would have to give up Gilgeous-Alexander who looks like a real player. All they'd have to do to sign both Butler and Leonard next summer would be finding someone to take either Lou Williams or the expiring deal on Montrezl Harrell.

[Seventyniner]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1042479195371266050

Odd. Why would Butler care about a destination team's cap space next summer if his Bird rights transfer in a trade?

[RD2191]

This is like a Kawhi situation, why would any of Butler's preferred teams trade assets for him when they can just sign him next season in free agency?

[Mikeanaro]

Why Spurs would want that scrub in the first place?

[TimmyBuckets]

Nets, Clippers, and Knicks. I mean, yeah, cap space, but hardly quality franchises . Ambition seems to be money, big city. It's MELO 2.0. Winning???? Meh....

I'm starting to think there's a general consensus out there among players that Pop is out soon, and without him Spurs are not a "winning" team. With that factor out, doesn't seem like players want to go to San Antonio.

[marinoman]

Im just curious, ignoring baggage and money issues, who do you guys think is better
Paul George or Butler? For us btw

[TimmyBuckets]

Im just curious, ignoring baggage and money issues, who do you guys think is better
Paul George or Butler? For us btw

George 100%

[baseline bum]

Odd. Why would Butler care about a destination team's cap space next summer if his Bird rights transfer in a trade?

Because them having capspace is leverage for him to use to try to get them to trade him now instead of getting nothing next summer.

[Payote75]

It was probably Derozan.

you think??? I don't think they would of been able to swing that if it took Leonard to get him. Had to of been someone else maybe green was part of the other trade and now for obvious reasons it's no longer feasible. I'd have to think though Danny green wouldn't be what ruins a trade but I definitely would love to know and make a move. I've said since diva left that I have been lobbying for Otto Porther jr. But that's a pipe dream.

[baseline bum]

This is like a Kawhi situation, why would any of Butler's preferred teams trade assets for him when they can just sign him next season in free agency?

They'll offer pennies on the dollar just like the Clippers, Lakers, Sixers, and Celtics did for rain man.

[baseline bum]

you think??? I don't think they would of been able to swing that if it took Leonard to get him. Had to of been someone else maybe green was part of the other trade and now for obvious reasons it's no longer feasible. I'd have to think though Danny green wouldn't be what ruins a trade but I definitely would love to know and make a move. I've said since diva left that I have been lobbying for Otto Porther jr. But that's a pipe dream.

Toronto wanted out of DeRozan's contract.

[iGetbuckets]

Odd. Why would Butler care about a destination team's cap space next summer if his Bird rights transfer in a trade?

Him and Kyrie are most likely planning to team up

[Payote75]

Toronto wanted out of DeRozan's contract.

They did but what Leonard was to us is what Demar was to them I'm thinking that wasn't it and the salary for Spurs wouldn't work with Leonard and Demar on the same squad.

[baseline bum]

They did but what Leonard was to us is what Demar was to them I'm thinking that wasn't it and the salary for Spurs wouldn't work with Leonard and Demar on the same squad.

Spurs could have dumped Gasol and Green. Since Gasol's deal only has like $3 million guaranteed for 2019-20 it would have saved the Raptors about $53 million.

[kobyz]

Not serious are you?

Why not, it's a wishful thinking but still, maybe the wolves too desperate and would see something in those two scrubs young players...

[Fusternino]

Could we actually do Gasol+Mills+Forbes+picks for Butler/Patton/Bates-Diop?

[kobyz]

Could we actually do Gasol+Mills+Forbes+picks for Butler/Patton/Bates-Diop?

no, you need to keep mills and forbes for shooting if you having butler

[SpursDynasty85]

I don't think they can get both. They don't have the cap room to absorb him in trade now, which means they'll need to send out some of those ending contracts that will create their room for next summer. I doubt Minnesota will take on any long term deals.

I would LMAO if West trades for Butler, and Magic signs Klay next summer, shutting the Nephew out of the LA market.

Loosely speaking, all 3 of those franchises were rumored to be possible Kawhi destinations. If they have or will have max space theoretically couldn't they send off enough money as well to fully absorb Butler's contract?

[exstatic]

Loosely speaking, all 3 of those franchises were rumored to be possible Kawhi destinations. If they have or will have max space theoretically couldn't they send off enough money as well to fully absorb Butler's contract?

It all depends on what Minnesota is willing to take. LA expected us to take out their trash this past summer, and PATFO shut them down hard. Minny probably wouldn't be too eager to both get screwed on value and take on bad contracts.

[Chillen]

Minny taking Gasol for Butler is a nice little pipe dream.

[SpursDynasty85]

It all depends on what Minnesota is willing to take. LA expected us to take out their trash this past summer, and PATFO shut them down hard. Minny probably wouldn't be too eager to both get screwed on value and take on bad contracts.

Well Butler at least gave them 3 different teams unlike Kawhi. Kawhi also had a lot of baggage. (uncle, injury, no personality)

[cool cat]

Also can’t do Bertans, Forbes until December I think because they just signed new contracts.

[cool cat]

Minny taking Gasol for Butler is a nice little pipe dream.

Well the title of the tread is “What is the Most You'd Want PATFO to Trade for Butler?” Not what is the most realistic trade options.

[RD2191]

Well the title of the tread is “What is the Most You'd Want PATFO to Trade for Butler?” Not what is the most realistic trade options.

:lol

[SpurPadre]

Well the title of the tread is “What is the Most You'd Want PATFO to Trade for Butler?” Not what is the most realistic trade options.

In that case, I'd give up Kawhi's used up tampons he left behind for Butler, tbh.

[rasuo214]

Don't want him, he's complained about both teams he has been on and KAT and Wiggins hate him. Seems like a bigger issue than Kawhi was, plus he probably wouldn't want to stay (rumors that him and Kyrie plan on teaming up) and we already have Derozan.

[RD2191]

Looks like he wants the Clippers.

[TDMVPDPOY]

his got nothing to offer besides chasing that last big contract...

[Leetonidas]

Wouldn't trade for him. He's a top 15 player but he's injury prone and a cancer. Sound familiar?

[SpursDynasty85]

Surprised no lakers but clippers

Myth has been busted. Superstars dont want to play with Lebron.

[tbdog]

Myth has been busted. Superstars dont want to play with Lebron.

When has Lebron ever recruited another star? He kinda joined Wade's team and Bosh joined up. Cavs traded for Love and ended up keeping him which is the biggest win of Lebron's career. Irving left. He never got anyone to stick around in his first stay in Cleveland.

[gambit1990]

he's complained about both teams he has been on
yeah, that's the only reason i wouldn't want him.

[gambit1990]

1042524320424226816

[gospursgojas]

When has Lebron ever recruited another star? He kinda joined Wade's team and Bosh joined up. Cavs traded for Love and ended up keeping him which is the biggest win of Lebron's career. Irving left. He never got anyone to stick around in his first stay in Cleveland.

Answers his own question all within the same post ^

[baseline bum]

Also can’t do Bertans, Forbes until December I think because they just signed new contracts.

That's unfortunate since I'm sure Minnesota was dying to land Bertans and Forbes.

[Ice009]

This is like a Kawhi situation, why would any of Butler's preferred teams trade assets for him when they can just sign him next season in free agency?

All three teams can't sign him, so they have to trade for him if they want him.

[Spurs da champs]

Wouldn't trade for him. He's a top 15 player but he's injury prone and a cancer. Sound familiar?

It's crazy too that both were never projected to be anywhere near what they are today. All that hard work still comes with that attitude (except to Butler's credit he never quit, I guess?)...damn shame.

[Fusternino]

Yeah at this point I say forget Butler and wait for the draft.

[kobyz]

Yeah at this point I say forget Butler and wait for the draft.

Even one year of butler worth murray and walker while getting rid of gasol, spurs would be crazy not to go for it

[Fusternino]

Even one year of butler worth murray and walker while getting rid of gasol, spurs would be crazy not to go for it

I'm not sure. I would rather wait 2-3 years when the Dubs fall apart and CP3 is really old to see what happens. I think there's something to be said for Butler potentially being toxic and not a good 3 point shooter. Next draft is absolutely loaded at the SF position as well so we probably only need to be in the 16-18 range to get a new starter.

And I really don't get why I'm the only one on this forum (in particular, but also in general) who still likes Gasol for 20-24 minutes a game.

[exstatic]

All three teams can't sign him, so they have to trade for him if they want him.

They could certainly sign him next summer without giving up anything. It was commented on earlier in the thread that his trade team choices were strange, since they could all just wait and sign him.

[John B]

Even one year of butler worth murray and walker while getting rid of gasol, spurs would be crazy not to go for it
Murray and Walker are potential star for a year rental. And Minnesota would be crazy to trade Butler to the West unless it’s for a star and someone who could help them now. I see Portland could try with McCollum. But I think he goes to Nets to inspite him. That could be a superteam destination though with Kyrie and Kawhitter next year... hmm

[Joseph Kony]

Even one year of butler worth murray and walker while getting rid of gasol, spurs would be crazy not to go for it
youre dumb as fuck

[SpursDynasty85]

When has Lebron ever recruited another star? He kinda joined Wade's team and Bosh joined up. Cavs traded for Love and ended up keeping him which is the biggest win of Lebron's career. Irving left. He never got anyone to stick around in his first stay in Cleveland.

Yea the Miami team was the best evidence of players wanting to play with him because they all chose Miami as a plan to play together. DWade happens to be an all time great who had his Batman seasons and is one of Lebron's best friends to that doesn't necessarily count. He does have a lot of superstar per se friends but other than that I don't think players want to play with him. Lebron is as selfish as they come. Will not adapt to anyone else's game or coaching style unless it's olympic team. I think he has the ability to and may show it more in LA now that his career is nearing the end.

[NASpurs]

Shams Charania: "Jimmy Butler would prefer trade by end of the week and there's potential for his list (of teams he'd like to go to) to be expanded even more. The list I heard was 5-6 teams"

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/9hgcfb/shams_charania_jimmy_butler_would_prefer_trade_by/

[rjv]

concede the title to the dubs this season, like everyone else, and wait to sign him as a FA or make a trade knowing then where the pick is as well as what you really have from murray, white and walker.

[TimDunkem]

Shams Charania: "Jimmy Butler would prefer trade by end of the week and there's potential for his list (of teams he'd like to go to) to be expanded even more. The list I heard was 5-6 teams"

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/9hgcfb/shams_charania_jimmy_butler_would_prefer_trade_by/

Tomorrow we're going to hear a report about expanding his list to 28 teams: "Anywhere but here...or San Antonio".

[sammy]

Tomorrow we're going to hear a report about expanding his list to 28 teams: "Anywhere but here...or San Antonio".

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[RD2191]

Tomorrow we're going to hear a report about expanding his list to 28 teams: "Anywhere but here...or San Antonio".

:lol that's a good one

[TheCerebral1]

Demar DeRozan, LaMarcus Aldridge and Pau Gasol, get it done.

[San Antonio Slayer]

Teague+Butler+Patton for Murray+Walker+Gasol

[TD 21]

I'm not sure. I would rather wait 2-3 years when the Dubs fall apart and CP3 is really old to see what happens. I think there's something to be said for Butler potentially being toxic and not a good 3 point shooter. Next draft is absolutely loaded at the SF position as well so we probably only need to be in the 16-18 range to get a new starter.

And I really don't get why I'm the only one on this forum (in particular, but also in general) who still likes Gasol for 20-24 minutes a game.

In general or in the context of this team?

He's fine for the former. Sure, he's not suited to playing against the majority of the elite, but that's inherently a small group.

He's not fine for the latter. The way this team is now constructed, a 3 and D wing should have his rotation spot, with Aldridge and Gay moving up a position.

The most inexplicable part of the trade was Green instead of Gasol (Richardson could have also been sent to Spurs for salary purposes).

[BillMc]

And I really don't get why I'm the only one on this forum (in particular, but also in general) who still likes Gasol for 20-24 minutes a game.

You're not. He's still a very effective player. There are groups here that want a youth movement, groups mad about his salary, and those that just want to dis Pau for trolling or various agendas.

Dude is the only player on the team that has a legit chance at a triple double when rolling, at least until DJ gets better at passing.

[Chillen]

Teague+Butler+Patton for Murray+Walker+Gasol

Pop wouldn't give up Murray but this works on ESPN trade checker. I don't think Pop wants to give up Murray and Walker for a Butler rental would need Jimmy to sign extension. For Minny not a bad trade both Murray and Walker have a ton of potential on cap friendly contracts.

I think Buford would do it and Pop would probably say hell no.

I would not want to give up Walker and Murray though, if Spurs can get Butler and not give them up that helps this team a ton.

[gambit1990]

so apparently KAT and wiggins don’t wanna play with butler... and butler doesn’t wanna be in minny... and thibs doesn’t wanna be in minny without butler :lol

[gambit1990]

wolves media day is monday :lol :corn:

[LCM]

Nets have a ton of 1 year contracts, like Lakers, which Sean Marks, Nets GM, could use to trade for Butler, get his bird rights, and then make a play for KL and/or Kyrie in the summer. YES sports network is one of the sports networks that Disney has to sell and YES, with the Yankees and Nets, could possibly buy themselves autonomy to go head to head with MSG in NYC. Wolves take the one year contracts because they will come off their books when KAT becomes a restricted FA.

From Spurs perspective, Gasol has to be a part of the deal, but LW4 is the only young player I make available, with the draft picks. I'd rather the Spurs passed and develop their own. If you wanted Jimmy Butler you should have drafted him instead of Cojo years ago.

[cd021]

You're not. He's still a very effective player. There are groups here that want a youth movement, groups mad about his salary, and those that just want to dis Pau for trolling or various agendas.

Dude is the only player on the team that has a legit chance at a triple double when rolling, at least until DJ gets better at passing.
I like Gasol just fine but 20-24 minutes is a bit high for him.

I think Pop will start him and play him for the first 7 minutes of each half with LMA and then go small with Bertans or Gay for the rest of the half. He'd still play around 20 mpg but the offense tends to be much better when it's LMA or Pau at center and not both playing together.

[Pavlov]

It just seems like players who aren't up for top endorsement money are angling for the biggest NBA salary in a big market tbh.

Fuck those players. Not worth trying.

[Russo21]

I heard Butler shagged KAT's girlfriend, which obviously played a part in their rift. We don't want this overrated prima donna. The Spurs obviously went for culture this summer which is obvious by trading our cancer for DDR whom by all accounts from Raptors fans is one of the nicest dudes on earth.

[exstatic]

I heard Butler shagged KAT's girlfriend, which obviously played a part in their rift. We don't want this overrated prima donna. The Spurs obviously went for culture this summer which is obvious by trading our cancer for DDR whom by all accounts from Raptors fans is one of the nicest dudes on earth.

Um, he's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Butler pass out at 31 Flavors last night.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Why would the Spurs' FO want to invite another disgruntled, entitled, spoiled player into the fold? One year rental is great, but does acquiring Butler push the Spurs back into elite status? Not so sure. Losing Pau would leave us pretty thin up front and the Spurs would have to bundle a lot more than Gasol to get that deal done.

I've always been a fan of Butler, but these guys demanding trades and holding their team and coaches hostage in the process just pisses me off. I lose respect for someone who is willing to say F' You to an entire organization and city, screwing both in the process.

[SAGirl]

I would see if the Wolves would be interested on taking DeRozan. A DeRozan/Butler pairing on the wings would be an awful fit, specially with Murray at PG. We would be the worst 3 pt shooting team on the league.
Agree.

I am not sold on Derozan. I realize he's now a Spur and after his depressive outburst and he has come around to be engaged and also he's very unlikely to be traded bc the Spurs just traded for him and dude might go into a deep depression considering his history... but I consider Butler to fit in better considering he's impactufl defensively and has played as a SF, which Demar is not (dude has played as a guard and has to be hidden on defense, even getting benched in the playoffs bc he's that awful)...

[Chillen]

Agree.

I am not sold on Derozan. I realize he's now a Spur and after his depressive outburst and he has come around to be engaged and also he's very unlikely to be traded bc the Spurs just traded for him and dude might go into a deep depression considering his history... but I consider Butler to fit in better considering he's impactufl defensively and has played as a SF, which Demar is not (dude has played as a guard and has to be hidden on defense, even getting benched in the playoffs bc he's that awful)...

Not going to happen and you know it. Spurs would not trade DeMar for a Butler rental. Trust me the T-wolves would take that and run. Spurs are lucky to have DeMar here and I don't think a Butler/DeMar backcourt would not work it would. Spurs don't have anything for Minny other than Pau and maybe Walker.

[daslicer]

Agree.

I am not sold on Derozan. I realize he's now a Spur and after his depressive outburst and he has come around to be engaged and also he's very unlikely to be traded bc the Spurs just traded for him and dude might go into a deep depression considering his history... but I consider Butler to fit in better considering he's impactufl defensively and has played as a SF, which Demar is not (dude has played as a guard and has to be hidden on defense, even getting benched in the playoffs bc he's that awful)...

You have gotta be crazy to want Butler. Butler is a toxic lockeroom guy who is very Hollywood. He definitely would bolt after this this season to go to LA or NYC. I just don't get why in the blue hell would you want to go through another year of drama after what happened last year.

[SAGirl]

Not going to happen and you know it. Spurs would not trade DeMar for a Butler rental. Trust me the T-wolves would take that and run. Spurs are lucky to have DeMar here and I don't think a Butler/DeMar backcourt would not work it would. Spurs don't have anything for Minny other than Pau and maybe Walker.
yea I know it's not happening... like so many other deals proposed here.

[SAGirl]

You have gotta be crazy to want Butler. Butler is a toxic lockeroom guy who is very Hollywood. He definitely would bolt after this this season to go to LA or NYC. I just don't get why in the blue hell would you want to go through another year of drama after what happened last year.
I am quite fine if they want to rebuild... but they want to contend or remain competitive. If he bolts, he bolts. Kiwi bolted and everyone thought he was the perfect Spur before this past season. You aren't getting another Timmy Duncan, have to make do with what you can find out there to be traded... or rebuild the old fashioned way tbh.

[daslicer]

I am quite fine if they want to rebuild... but they want to contend or remain competitive. If he bolts, he bolts. Kiwi bolted and everyone thought he was the perfect Spur before this past season. You aren't getting another Timmy Duncan, have to make do with what you can find out there to be traded... or rebuild the old fashioned way tbh.

Don't be stupid this not about finding a Duncan like player. You don't willingly trade for guys who are cancers. Butler is a fucking cancer. They are reports that he slept with KAT's girlfriend granted I know you are going to bring up Tony Parker. The point is this guy has low character and has been hated in both Chicago and Minnesota by his teammates. I'm sorry I'm not interested in having divas.

Also the Spurs are not going to be a contender even if they trade Demar for Butler. Right now it's about just being a 50 win team and exposing the young guys to a winning culture. The goal is that one of the young guys can eventually become a superstar.

[SAGirl]

Don't be stupid this not about finding a Duncan like player. You don't willingly trade for guys who are cancers. Butler is a fucking cancer. They are reports that he slept with KAT's girlfriend granted I know you are going to bring up Tony Parker. The point is this guy has low character and has been hated in both Chicago and Minnesota by his teammates. I'm sorry I'm not interested in having divas.

Also the Spurs are not going to be a contender even if they trade Demar for Butler. Right now it's about just being a 50 win team and exposing the young guys to a winning culture. The goal is that one of the young guys can eventually become a superstar.
Lol ok you wouldn’t trade for him.

I think he’s a better player than Derozan and I would.

Neither of us will make this call so what’s your problem?

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Lol ok you wouldn’t trade for him.

I think he’s a better player than Derozan and I would.

Neither of us will make this call so what’s your problem?

DeMar literally does everything better than Jimmy Butler. Like there's nothing I can think of that Butler does better than Demar. One guy led his team to the 1st seed in the east was beloved by his teammates and was a leader while the other guy (Butler) barely made the playoffs, was a hated by all his teammates, and was the worst leader you can ask for. Frankly, saying Butler is better than Demar is insulting and flat out wrong.

[SAGirl]

DeMar literally does everything better than Jimmy Butler. Like there's nothing I can think of that Butler does better than Demar. One guy led his team to the 1st seed in the east was beloved by his teammates and was a leader while the other guy (Butler) barely made the playoffs, was a hated by all his teammates, and was the worst leader you can ask for. Frankly, saying Butler is better than Demar is insulting and flat out wrong.
:madrun that's you.
Demar has lately been in much better teams. The Wolves were horrible b4 Jimmy played there, they were clearly so much worse without him. The Bulls are the laughinstock of the East. Even their fans hate their FO. I am not crazy about Jimmy, but even less about Demar frankly. Maybe he changes my opinion.

[KDKSpurs24]

:madrun that's you.
Demar has lately been in much better teams. The Wolves were horrible b4 Jimmy played there, they were clearly so much worse without him. The Bulls are the laughinstock of the East. Even their fans hate their FO. I am not crazy about Jimmy, but even less about Demar frankly. Maybe he changes my opinion.
I agree with him. DeMar is better on offense. He’s a better teammate and also something that’s very important that he’s better than is durability. Availability is sometimes the best ability.

But yeah Jimmy would wreck chemistry. I don’t see him getting along with hardly any team he goes to.

[BD24]

A second round pick, don't want.

He doesn't move the needle enough. Can't have three max guys and not be contenders. That team still isn't beating Golden State. Would rather develop our young guys for the future tbh.

[Pavlov]

Yeah, not desperate enough to be interested at this point.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

:madrun that's you.
Demar has lately been in much better teams. The Wolves were horrible b4 Jimmy played there, they were clearly so much worse without him. The Bulls are the laughinstock of the East. Even their fans hate their FO. I am not crazy about Jimmy, but even less about Demar frankly. Maybe he changes my opinion.

The Bulls were clearly tanking last year. But Butler just had another knee injury. He only played in 59 games last year and has so much wear and tear from playing under Thibs that the idea of signing him to a 5 year max scares me. Demar is under a really good contract (same as LMA) and it's shorter so we can move on from him sooner if need be. Raptors talent wasn't really that special last year tbh, but their chemistry and camaraderie was so good that they finished with a higher record than 3 teams with equal or more talent. And Demar was a big reason for that.
Butler doesn't mentor anyone young and is notorious for causing drama with youth in the locker room. I mean you know you're a bad leader when Rajon Rondo looks like a good one compared to you. He has had no playoff success to speak of either (it's sad when Demar has more playoff success than you). WE are better off this year with Demar since history suggests that he will play in almost every single regular season game, he will play well during those regular season, he is a good teammate/ team player, and will cost the Spurs less money and prospects (DJ or Walker).

[SAGirl]

The Bulls were clearly tanking last year. But Butler just had another knee injury. He only played in 59 games last year and has so much wear and tear from playing under Thibs that the idea of signing him to a 5 year max scares me. Demar is under a really good contract (same as LMA) and it's shorter so we can move on from him sooner if need be. Raptors talent wasn't really that special last year tbh, but their chemistry and camaraderie was so good that they finished with a higher record than 3 teams with equal or more talent. And Demar was a big reason for that.
Butler doesn't mentor anyone young and is notorious for causing drama with youth in the locker room. I mean you know you're a bad leader when Rajon Rondo looks like a good one compared to you. He has had no playoff success to speak of either (it's sad when Demar has more playoff success than you). WE are better off this year with Demar since history suggests that he will play in almost every single regular season game, he will play well during those regular season, he is a good teammate/ team player, and will cost the Spurs less money and prospects (DJ or Walker).That's a good point about his knee. I forgot about Thibs running him into the ground and him coming back from that injury pressing for the playoffs.

Raptors also played in the East. Demar is a good teammate but he's not that great of a player IMO. He can score and that's pretty much it. I am just not a fan of his, but perhaps he wins me over.

[exstatic]

That's a good point about his knee. I forgot about Thibs running him into the ground and him coming back from that injury pressing for the playoffs.

Raptors also played in the East. Demar is a good teammate but he's not that great of a player IMO. He can score and that's pretty much it. I am just not a fan of his, but perhaps he wins me over.

DeMar averaged over 5 assists per game last year. You didn’t know that. You didn’t know about Butlers fragility. It’s pretty clear that you just have no idea what your talking about.

[SAGirl]

DeMar averaged over 5 assists per game last year. You didn’t know that. You didn’t know about Butlers fragility. It’s pretty clear that you just have no idea what your talking about.
yea I knew. I forgot Butler was hurt last season. Demar averaged the assists but then he went to the playoffs and shit himself.

[exstatic]

yea I knew. I forgot Butler was hurt last season. Demar averaged the assists but then he went to the playoffs and shit himself.

Butler wasn’t just hurt last season, he’s been dinged and banged up for most of his career. As for the playoffs, he hasn’t exactly set the world on fire, himself. Lower numbers, and two second round appearances. Who knows? Maybe if he actually made a conference finals like DD, he would have shit the bed, too.

[Chinook]

If you could just isolate the on-the-court stuff. Butler is better. But you can't do that. DeRozan and Aldridge a great transition stars. I don't know if they can be more than that, and if so, what it would take to get them there. But when taking everything into account, I'd rather have DeRozan on the team than Butler. I just don't think the team could take another year or divisive shit.

Would still totally entertain trying to add Jimmy to the team, though.

[TXstbobcat]

All of my co-workers up in Minneapolis are saying that as good as Butler is, he isn’t worth the drama and and the distraction for the rest of the team. They are all hoping he gets traded quickly.

[cjw]

Nets have a ton of 1 year contracts, like Lakers, which Sean Marks, Nets GM, could use to trade for Butler, get his bird rights, and then make a play for KL and/or Kyrie in the summer. YES sports network is one of the sports networks that Disney has to sell and YES, with the Yankees and Nets, could possibly buy themselves autonomy to go head to head with MSG in NYC. Wolves take the one year contracts because they will come off their books when KAT becomes a restricted FA.

From Spurs perspective, Gasol has to be a part of the deal, but LW4 is the only young player I make available, with the draft picks. I'd rather the Spurs passed and develop their own. If you wanted Jimmy Butler you should have drafted him instead of Cojo years ago.

Good points on Nets

But people need to stop with this revisionist history on CoJo over Butler. The Spurs has just traded away their PG depth in the Kawhi-Hill trade. PG was a big need at that point in time ... the depth was Gary Neal, which is all you need to know.

Butler was fine at Marquette but showed no improvement from sophomore to junior year. Let’s stop acting like he was a sure thing.

[gambit1990]

i've always liked butler and hated demar. butler has always been the better player.

i'm starting to warm up to demar and sour on butler though... not big on the drama he seems to bring...

would la want out with all the touches demar and butler would get?

[gambit1990]

if butler goes to the bucks i hope the spurs are a trade partner and can manage to swap gasol + something for john henson.

[Chinook]

Good points on Nets

But people need to stop with this revisionist history on CoJo over Butler. The Spurs has just traded away their PG depth in the Kawhi-Hill trade. PG was a big need at that point in time ... the depth was Gary Neal, which is all you need to know.

Butler was fine at Marquette but showed no improvement from sophomore to junior year. Let’s stop acting like he was a sure thing.

If I had could go back in time and do one draft do-over, it wouldn't even be Butler. It would've been Jokic over Anderson. Could have dodged the whole Gasol era and used Tim's cap space on a perimeter player.

I don't see the Nets making a play for Butler, especially since it seems like Kyrie isn't 100-percent leaving Boston. Rather, I'd try to tank this year and get a high pick to add to the max slots. They aren't at the point where it makes sense to trade away future value. They need to get guys committed to the franchise first.

[Chinook]

if butler goes to the bucks i hope the spurs are a trade partner and can manage to swap gasol + something for john henson.

Fuck that. First, Gasol is better first off. And the only guy I want from MKE (who could even possibly be on the block) is Middleton.

[LCM]

Good points on Nets

But people need to stop with this revisionist history on CoJo over Butler. The Spurs has just traded away their PG depth in the Kawhi-Hill trade. PG was a big need at that point in time ... the depth was Gary Neal, which is all you need to know.

Butler was fine at Marquette but showed no improvement from sophomore to junior year. Let’s stop acting like he was a sure thing.

I understand your point, and Cojo gets a lot of flack for the "he was the roommate to RC's son". He's had a decent career in Toronto and Indiana. If Butler wasn't drafted by Chicago, how much run would he have gotten early in his career? Didn't the Spurs sign Patty that year too? 2011-12 season. 20 game win streak to end regular season and then start playoffs. Then Spurs loose 4 straight to Thunder. Patty and KL went off on the Warriors and Suns the last two games of the year in Spurs wins when Tim, Tony, Manu, and Pop didn't go on the road trip. Coach Bud took the helm in those games.

[sasaint]

Fuck that. First, Gasol is better first off. And the only guy I want from MKE (who could even possibly be on the block) is Middleton.

When Butler wanted out of Chicago, I really wanted the Spurs to swing a deal to acquire him (and RoLo). But three years later, he doesn't seem like a good fit here at all - and I won't even address the potential locker room issues. Middleton is a much better dream to dream today.

[KDKSpurs24]

When Butler wanted out of Chicago, I really wanted the Spurs to swing a deal to acquire him (and RoLo). But three years later, he doesn't seem like a good fit here at all - and I won't even address the potential locker room issues. Middleton is a much better dream to dream today.
Yes I really want Middleton more than anyone right now. I feel that if we were able to land him while keeping the young guys then we could contend (not necessarily win but contend because GS is unfair).

[cjw]

I understand your point, and Cojo gets a lot of flack for the "he was the roommate to RC's son". He's had a decent career in Toronto and Indiana. If Butler wasn't drafted by Chicago, how much run would he have gotten early in his career? Didn't the Spurs sign Patty that year too? 2011-12 season. 20 game win streak to end regular season and then start playoffs. Then Spurs loose 4 straight to Thunder. Patty and KL went off on the Warriors and Suns the last two games of the year in Spurs wins when Tim, Tony, Manu, and Pop didn't go on the road trip. Coach Bud took the helm in those games.

Yeah. Mills was later that season and was the writing on the wall for Neal.

CoJo just took a while to develop and by the time he was useful, Spurs needed all the cap room they could get to sign Aldridge.

[sasaint]

Yes I really want Middleton more than anyone right now. I feel that if we were able to land him while keeping the young guys then we could contend (not necessarily win but contend because GS is unfair).

Khris seems like the piece to perfectly fill the glaring hole we have at SF. But I don't think there is any way we could could swing a deal to bring him here and still keep the guys we need to keep to be really competitive.

[Ice009]

What would it take to get Middleton? Is he even on the block?

[sasaint]

What would it take to get Middleton? Is he even on the block?

I have no intel about that. He wouldn't be if I were in charge of the Bucks. I was just responding to an earlier post.

[gambit1990]

Fuck that. First, Gasol is better first off.
:lol

i'm taking henson over gasol easily. 27, $18 mil/two years remaining... pau is 38, $32 mil/two years remaining.

henson can actually run, finish at the rim a lot better, and his defense can improve whereas pau's is only going to get worse.

[Chinook]

:lol

i'm taking henson over gasol easily. 27, $18 mil/two years remaining... pau is 38, $32 mil/two years remaining.

henson can actually run, finish at the rim a lot better, and his defense can improve whereas pau's is only going to get worse.

Try actually representing the contracts fairly first. Henson has $20M/2 and Pau has $22.8M guaranteed. That they can get out of most of his second year is exactly why he's more valuable than Henson.

Saying vague shit like "he can run" doesn't mean anything. He was worse than Gasol last year, and he was dogshit compared to Gasol the year before. Moreover, he's completely redundant with Poeltl and isn't a great fit for a SL that needs spacing and passing. You even describe John's D as something that "can improve" like that's a plus. The biggest reason to hope it improves is because it's been pretty shitty for years. What sucks is that Henson's offense is even worse. The only reason why we're even talking about him is because he had a pretty good year last year. But MKE keeps trying to upgrade his spot, from drafting centers in back-to-back years to signing Lopez this summer. Maybe they don't like him for a reason?

[Spurtacular]

Pau for Butler centered trade would be a win, imo

[gambit1990]

Saying vague shit like "he can run" doesn't mean anything. He was worse than Gasol last year, and he was dogshit compared to Gasol the year before. Moreover, he's completely redundant with Poeltl and isn't a great fit for a SL that needs spacing and passing. You even describe John's D as something that "can improve" like that's a plus. The biggest reason to hope it improves is because it's been pretty shitty for years. What sucks is that Henson's offense is even worse. The only reason why we're even talking about him is because he had a pretty good year last year. But MKE keeps trying to upgrade his spot, from drafting centers in back-to-back years to signing Lopez this summer. Maybe they don't like him for a reason?
henson's had shitty coaches. that's why the bucks have managed to underachieve in the east even with giannis.

not saying he'll be an all star but he can produce more under pop than pau will.

[TE]

None. He’s cancerous.

[Ice009]

I'd only trade for him if we're not giving up anything of value. I don't really like the guy anymore. Decent player, but not someone I care to have on the team. A worse version of Kawhi, but would come with similar issues. No thanks.

[John B]

DJ, Demar, Butler, Gay, LMA is an intriguing thought. I think this group would have a chance to dethrone Dubs. RJ/Pops should explore especially if they can convince Butler to extend.

[Chillen]

DJ, Demar, Butler, Gay, LMA is an intriguing thought. I think this group would have a chance to dethrone Dubs. RJ/Pops should explore especially if they can convince Butler to extend.

I just can't see how the Spurs could land him unless some team helps them out in a 3 way deal. Spurs just lost a top 5 league player I would hope they have inquired about Butler. You definitely don't want to give up to much for a Butler rental. DeMar, LMA, Lonnie and DJ off limits I think, so any other Spur could be traded.

[dbestpro]

Do not want Butler. Disgruntled players who demand trades - If they are willing to stab one team in the back they are more than willing to do it a second time.

[Maddog]

DJ, Demar, Butler, Gay, LMA is an intriguing thought. I think this group would have a chance to dethrone Dubs. RJ/Pops should explore especially if they can convince Butler to extend.

I don't think adding Butler increases the chanvce of dethroning the GSW by much. I'm not really all that excited for a Pau-Butler trade.
Butler IMHO is a poor fit. Ball domonant, poor 3 point shooter and has worn his welcome out in two places already. Signing him long term is problematic. He is 29 with high milage and relies heavily on his atheleticism/physicality.

With regards to Pau? He is definitely overpaid, but is essentialy a large expiring contract and would hold out that something more intriguing will come up later, knowing full well the most likely scenario is tha nothing does.

[kobyz]

Butler is close to be traded to miami, can we get involve in this trade? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yb9amzw5%C2%A0%C2%A0

[TimDunkem]

^ No.

[John B]

I read he likes to wear cowboy boots, but likes to be traded to the Heat?

[bklynspursfan]

Butler is close to be traded to miami, can we get involve in this trade? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yb9amzw5%C2%A0%C2%A0

Whiteside?? Nah.. lol

Rather keep Poeltl

[SAGirl]

Phoenix making a move?
1045000493351796741

[Chillen]

Spurs just don't have the pieces to trade for this player right now and Thibs is not trading him to a Western Conference team. It looks like the Heat are the favorites to land Butler.

[DAF86]

DJ, Demar, Butler, Gay, LMA is an intriguing thought. I think this group would have a chance to dethrone Dubs. RJ/Pops should explore especially if they can convince Butler to extend.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[John B]

:lmao:lmao:lmao
Curry > DJ, but Murray slows Curry down with his reach, athleticism and ultimately slows down Dubs’ tempo. Still overall it’s Spurs’ advantage with Murray slowing down the tempo and able to closein on 3’s and control Dubs momentum. Dubs offense starts with Curry and Green’s playmaking. Murray slows down Curry, it’s Gay’s turn to distrupt Green;
Thompson = Demar. They cancel each other out in scoring. Spurs not needing to double team without Tony/Mills, Demar can stay with his man, and closeout on 3’s. Spurs can control the avalanche of 3’s;
Green < Gay. Gay has shown that he can postdown Green with much success and score on him. Gay can fight for rebounds and has learned to play good D. He disrupts Green’s playmaking and effectiveness, Spurs close the gap;
Durant > Butler. Durant scores but I think Butler can slow him down a bit. That’s all anyone can do. But Durant also need to play Butler on the other side and his physicality and that could take a toll;
Cousins < LMA. Cousins is untested in playoffs and could easily implode. I think LMA wins this;
Kerr < Pops. With good personnel, Pops easily outcoach Kerr. He showed with Spurs up 25 before Kawhi went down. And that was not all Kawhi, but because Kawhi being down created mismatches, not enough scoring, etc. I think Butler could fill that hole.
Dubs bench = Spurs bench. Spurs have long athletic guys who are fast footed and can switch on pnr, closeout on 3’s, run, score 3’s, etc. Poeltl/White/Mills/Bertran can score against any bench. If Lonnie matures fast is another advantage with his long reach and explosiveness;

It’s not laughable but it’s realistic that if the Spurs could get Butler sacrificing Pau, 1st round and filler, Spurs easily becomes 2nd best in the West and close the gap on Dubs tbh.

[Chinook]

Based on purely basketball ability, Murray/DeRozan/Butler/Gay/Aldridge is the second-best starting five in the West and REALLY close to GS' starting five. Curry and Durant are easily the best two players on the floor, but the Spurs probably have the next three. With Cousins being hurt, I could see him being sixth or worse on this list. The issue beyond that is that Spurs unit has no spacing or chemistry. There might be games where two of the perimeter guys are shooting well enough to keep GS honest, but it's a tall order to ask guys like DeRozan and Gay to play three-and-D roles, and when you play the Warriors, everyone on the floor has to be a two-way player. Replacing DeRozan with prime-ish Paul George would be a different matter. Then you'd have three strong perimeter defenders, a swing-forward who can get his own shot and swing on D, and Aldridge while having at least one top-level shooter on the court.

If the Spurs can keep Walker and the rest of the rotation players besides Gasol, then it'd be worth it to try. I want the team to be willing to gamble rather than to just on their current roster, content with fighting for the third round. There are just other gambles I'd rather them explore first.

[Emperor]

We ain't getting Butler and everyone knows it let's just move on and focus on the squad we have which in my opinion looks promising.

[TDMVPDPOY]

u only pull a trade if you think u can win now...

if not...dont u trade ur youth for a rental? walker, murry, white

if the spurs still had anderson, he couldve been a useful 4, or trade piece to get butler in a package that also includes pau/patty/forbes

[RD2191]

So Minny wants vets and a prospect. Mills/Gasol and their pick of DJ or Walker. Get it done RC.

[DAF86]

Curry > DJ, but Murray slows Curry down with his reach, athleticism and ultimately slows down Dubs’ tempo. Still overall it’s Spurs’ advantage with Murray slowing down the tempo and able to closein on 3’s and control Dubs momentum. Dubs offense starts with Curry and Green’s playmaking. Murray slows down Curry, it’s Gay’s turn to distrupt Green;
Thompson = Demar. They cancel each other out in scoring. Spurs not needing to double team without Tony/Mills, Demar can stay with his man, and closeout on 3’s. Spurs can control the avalanche of 3’s;
Green < Gay. Gay has shown that he can postdown Green with much success and score on him. Gay can fight for rebounds and has learned to play good D. He disrupts Green’s playmaking and effectiveness, Spurs close the gap;
Durant > Butler. Durant scores but I think Butler can slow him down a bit. That’s all anyone can do. But Durant also need to play Butler on the other side and his physicality and that could take a toll;
Cousins < LMA. Cousins is untested in playoffs and could easily implode. I think LMA wins this;
Kerr < Pops. With good personnel, Pops easily outcoach Kerr. He showed with Spurs up 25 before Kawhi went down. And that was not all Kawhi, but because Kawhi being down created mismatches, not enough scoring, etc. I think Butler could fill that hole.
Dubs bench = Spurs bench. Spurs have long athletic guys who are fast footed and can switch on pnr, closeout on 3’s, run, score 3’s, etc. Poeltl/White/Mills/Bertran can score against any bench. If Lonnie matures fast is another advantage with his long reach and explosiveness;

It’s not laughable but it’s realistic that if the Spurs could get Butler sacrificing Pau, 1st round and filler, Spurs easily becomes 2nd best in the West and close the gap on Dubs tbh.

Murray, DeRozan, Butler, Gay, Aldridge. Nobody shoots threes from that bunch, you need three point shooters to win in today's NBA. That Spurs lineup would get crushed by the Warriors, and would lose to the Rockets too. In fact, they could lose to any playoffs team. That lineup you proposed just isn't very good.

[Seventyniner]

There are just other gambles I'd rather them explore first.

Like what?

[SAGirl]

Based on purely basketball ability, Murray/DeRozan/Butler/Gay/Aldridge is the second-best starting five in the West and REALLY close to GS' starting five. Curry and Durant are easily the best two players on the floor, but the Spurs probably have the next three. With Cousins being hurt, I could see him being sixth or worse on this list. The issue beyond that is that Spurs unit has no spacing or chemistry. There might be games where two of the perimeter guys are shooting well enough to keep GS honest, but it's a tall order to ask guys like DeRozan and Gay to play three-and-D roles, and when you play the Warriors, everyone on the floor has to be a two-way player. Replacing DeRozan with prime-ish Paul George would be a different matter. Then you'd have three strong perimeter defenders, a swing-forward who can get his own shot and swing on D, and Aldridge while having at least one top-level shooter on the court.

If the Spurs can keep Walker and the rest of the rotation players besides Gasol, then it'd be worth it to try. I want the team to be willing to gamble rather than to just on their current roster, content with fighting for the third round. There are just other gambles I'd rather them explore first.

I frankly expect them to do the opposite. They only made the trade they made bc Kawhi cornered them into it. They will have to give up prospects they want to keep to trade for Butler and perhaps they aren't going to pay the price. For sure at least one of the most promising youngsters will be asked in the trade.

Thibs demands for a trade apparently are higher than the Spurs' were for KAwhi (he's been so ridiculous I have seen the twitterati accuse him of not really wanting to trade). Many teams just don't believe Thibs wants to trade after all bc his demands are outrageous.

[TXstbobcat]

I would rather keep our young prospects and see how they develop than include them in a trade for a one-year rental of Butler.

[kaji157]

Mills, Gasol and two first round picks, sas 2019 and sas 2020.

[tonight...you]

Mills, Gasol and two first round picks, sas 2019 and sas 2020.
I don't believe you can trade 2 consecutive years of 1st Rd draft picks, my friend.

[exstatic]

I don't believe you can trade 2 consecutive years of 1st Rd draft picks, my friend.

Exactly, which is why on draft night, you see so many pick and trades. It gives you the flexibility to trade the next year's pick. A pick and trade doesn't count, because you're actually trading the rights to a player, not a pick.

[Seventyniner]

I don't believe you can trade 2 consecutive years of 1st Rd draft picks, my friend.

Close. The rule is that you can't make a deal that leaves yourself with no firsts in two consecutive future drafts. This trade works because the Spurs would still have Toronto's 1st.

Or maybe not because it turns into two 2nds if it falls in the top 20. Including Toronto's 2019 1st and the Spurs' 2020 1st is fine.

That's still a lot to give up for a rental diva. I mean, if Butler cancers things up you can just let him walk, but Pop values chemistry too much imo.

[tonight...you]

Exactly, which is why on draft night, you see so many pick and trades. It gives you the flexibility to trade the next year's pick. A pick and trade doesn't count, because you're actually trading the rights to a player, not a pick.
Interesting... thank you!

[tonight...you]

Close. The rule is that you can't make a deal that leaves yourself with no firsts in two consecutive future drafts. This trade works because the Spurs would still have Toronto's 1st.

Or maybe not because it turns into two 2nds if it falls in the top 20. Including Toronto's 2019 1st and the Spurs' 2020 1st is fine.

That's still a lot to give up for a rental diva. I mean, if Butler cancers things up you can just let him walk, but Pop values chemistry too much imo.
I agree. And thank you for the clarification!

[Chinook]

Close. The rule is that you can't make a deal that leaves yourself with no firsts in two consecutive future drafts. This trade works because the Spurs would still have Toronto's 1st.

Or maybe not because it turns into two 2nds if it falls in the top 20. Including Toronto's 2019 1st and the Spurs' 2020 1st is fine.

That's still a lot to give up for a rental diva. I mean, if Butler cancers things up you can just let him walk, but Pop values chemistry too much imo.

It wouldn't work. Picks only count if they are guaranteed to convey in a given year. If it were conditional on 2019 but unprotected in 2020, then it would work.

[Seventyniner]

It wouldn't work. Picks only count if they are guaranteed to convey in a given year. If it were conditional on 2019 but unprotected in 2020, then it would work.

Got it, thanks for clearing that up. But I take it trading the conditional TOR 2019 1st and the Spurs' own 2020 1st is okay because it leaves the Spurs with their own 2019 1st.

[Chinook]

Got it, thanks for clearing that up. But I take it trading the conditional TOR 2019 1st and the Spurs' own 2020 1st is okay because it leaves the Spurs with their own 2019 1st.

Yep. Completely fine.

[BillMc]

I would rather keep our young prospects and see how they develop than include them in a trade for a one-year rental of Butler.

[kaji157]

Then Toronto 2019 and Sas 2020

[Hoops Czar]

I would rather keep our young prospects and see how they develop than include them in a trade for a one-year rental of Butler.
I would trade DeRozen for Butler straight up. I'd even throw in Poeltl for free.

[Kawhitstorm]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24690557/jimmy-butler-tom-thibodeau-meeting-expected-set-tone-2018-19-minnesota-timberwolves-season

Assuming this ends up in a trade, and that PATFO could outbid other teams, where is your red line?

Is one year of Butler (and Bird rights) worth Murray and/or Walker plus unprotected picks? Is it worth taking on Dieng's contract, which is so bad that it makes Patty's deal seem reasonable?

Is a core of DeRozan, Butler and Aldridge good enough to beat the Warriors? If not, how close is it (like an injury away or a complete roster overhaul)?

Butler is a mediocre off the ball shooter......makes sense to pair him up w/ a back court that can't space the floor:lol

They would basically be a poorman's Heatles on offense without the defensive versatility :downspin:

[couchman]

do not want. he is not a difference maker

[Biggems]

Patty Mills, 2020 first, and Toronto's 2019 first. To me that is fair. They get 2 firsts and a tenacious, energetic scorer and hustler. We get Butler to play alongside Aldridge, Derozen, and Murray....a win win for both teams.

[Biggems]

Mills, Gasol and two first round picks, sas 2019 and sas 2020.

Switcg it to raptors 2019 first and throw in 1 more player from minnesota and I will take it.

[gambit1990]

surprised he hasn't been traded yet. rumors were that it was gonna happen sooner rather than later.

[Fusternino]

Maybe we can still steal him close to the deadline, then. Mills/Bertans and both firsts for Butler and Bates-Diop.

[John B]

Wish Tibs was watching the scrimmage tonight. He could have hot shooting Forbes and 1st round pick for Butler.

[gambit1990]

1047645242772652033

[ismael-robert]

Minnesota's preferences in a Miami deal have included center Bam Adebayo, guard Josh Richardson and a protected 2019 first-round pick, league sources said. A trade could take on a larger construction to include more players, league sources said.

In any Butler deal, Minnesota has wanted to unload center Gorgui Dieng and the $48 million left on his contract.

[Ice009]

What do you guys think of that Miami proposal? Is Miami offering those players, or is that what Minnesota is asking for, plus unloading Dieng?

[Em-City]

What do you guys think of that Miami proposal? Is Miami offering those players, or is that what Minnesota is asking for, plus unloading Dieng?

can't see reilly overpaying by proposing an offer like that - it sounds more like wishful thinking on the minny side.

[baseline bum]

Patty Mills, 2020 first, and Toronto's 2019 first. To me that is fair. They get 2 firsts and a tenacious, energetic scorer and hustler. We get Butler to play alongside Aldridge, Derozen, and Murray....a win win for both teams.

Wow a shit contract and two garbage picks, how could they say no?

[ismael-robert]

can't see reilly overpaying by proposing an offer like that - it sounds more like wishful thinking on the minny side.

Which is why it stalled

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Butler waiting until camp starts to demand a trade puts Minny in a tough position. We already got rid of a team cancer, no need to add another one.

[exstatic]

Butler waiting until camp starts to demand a trade puts Minny in a tough position. We already got rid of a team cancer, no need to add another one.
This has been going on for weeks, Choppa. Thibs is being a stubborn ass. He’s getting nothing good, and him letting it drag into training camp was a huge mistake.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This has been going on for weeks, Choppa. Thibs is being a stubborn ass. He’s getting nothing good, and him letting it drag into training camp was a huge mistake.

Good to know.

I was always a fan of Butler...of course I was always a fan of KL, too. I’m probably sensitive now to guys demanding trades when they appear to be in a decent situation where they’re at. Minny will probably need to wait for a team to get desperate and up their offer after the season gets going. Some under-performing team will want him...or some over-performing team feeling like he’s their opportunity to get a shot at the Finals.

That’s unless T’Wolves ownership just dumps him on the cheap before then to turn the page. There’s no way they’re getting anything close to full value right now. You’re right if this is Thibs doing he’s f’d it up by not moving him earlier.

[SAGirl]

Good to know.

I was always a fan of Butler...of course I was always a fan of KL, too. I’m probably sensitive now to guys demanding trades when they appear to be in a decent situation where they’re at. Minny will probably need to wait for a team to get desperate and up their offer after the season gets going. Some under-performing team will want him...or some over-performing team feeling like he’s their opportunity to get a shot at the Finals.

That’s unless T’Wolves ownership just dumps him on the cheap before then to turn the page. There’s no way they’re getting anything close to full value right now. You’re right if this is Thibs doing he’s f’d it up by not moving him earlier.If you are sensitive to any player requesting a trade due to the Kiwi drama you will probably reject any star in the market. I am not saying go after Butler, Spurs team looks good provided they get good production from their youth (bc we know what the vets are already). But every FA star in the market is someone who wanted to leave their team. Whether they do in it in FA or in the last season of their deal is inmaterial. The ones who want to leave while they still have a year in their deal actually set up their departed team to be in a better situation than if they left like Lamarcus Aldridge, Durant, and Lebron. What makes the Kiwi drama actually drama was the year he sat out with the injury and the whole thing that went on last season while he was still under contract. Don't let that poison you bc any FA star you covet is going to be someone who wanted to leave their team.

[gambit1990]

1048242966307979270

[JPB]

Me love me some "why don't you take my washed up/bad contract garbage players + a couple of non lottery picks and I'll take your star" trade proposition...

[exstatic]

Me love me some "why don't you take my washed up/bad contract garbage players + a couple of non lottery picks and I'll take your star" trade proposition...

Jimmy actually isn't worth a ton. I get that there are ridiculous trades being floated, but in addition to an injury history that rivals Kawhi, he's also been overplayed like many Thibs proteges, and has a history of NOT mentoring young players to the point of near abuse. His best days are behind him, and I think a lot of teams realize that. I'm not sure teams want him as anything but a rental. He's going to command a big contract from someone. Like the game musical chairs, you don't want to be stuck being that team.

[gambit1990]

Jimmy Butler has returned to Minnesota and, in a meeting with president and coach Tom Thibodeau, reiterated his desire to traded, league sources told The Athletic.

Butler has not practiced with the team since training camp opened on Sept. 25, just over a week after he first met with Thibodeau to personally deliver his trade request. The Wolves have had conversations with a number of teams, most notably the the Miami Heat, but have yet to close a deal.

Butler worked out in Minneapolis on Monday and talked with Thibodeau, making clear that nothing has changed in the last three weeks, sources said. It remains unclear when, or if, he will join the team in practice as they prepare for the season opener at San Antonio on Oct. 17.

https://www.nba.com/article/2018/10/09/report-jimmy-butler-reiterates-trade-request