Investigating Starting Lineup Possibilities

[timvp]

With all the upheaval that shook San Antonio over the summer, it’s not surprising that the Spurs rotation remains out of focus. However, it’s more than that. It’s not just that the Big 3 Era has ended and that the Kawhi Leonard bomb detonated, it’s that San Antonio’s roster still hasn’t really been put back together in a manner that makes much sense.

More specifically, the Spurs have a ton of options at shooting guard, no traditional option at small forward, and essentially three modern day centers among their top eight or so most talented players. I’m not saying it’s a bad roster but it certainly is an odd conglomeration.

The first step in figuring out the rotation Pop is going to utilize this coming season is to figure out the starting lineup he’s going to use out of the gates. As I write this, I legitimately have no idea which way Pop is leaning.

Anti-Gervin
C Pau Gasol
PF LaMarcus Aldridge
SF DeMar DeRozan
SG Patty Mills
PG Dejounte Murray

When Bob Bass (R.I.P.) moved George Gervin from small forward to shooting guard, he changed the course of Spurs history, not to mention basketball history in general. That happened 44 years ago (oh damn, 44 – mind blown) and Gervin credits the move for turning him into a Hall of Famer.

The 2018-19 Spurs roster would suddenly make a lot more sense if Pop decides to permanently move DeMar DeRozan from shooting guard to small forward. Listed at 6-foot-7 and 220 pounds, DeRozan is a bit thin for the position but he did spend about 40 percent of his minutes last year at small forward.

In this lineup, Mills doesn’t have to necessarily start at shooting guard, however this would give the team some continuity as it’s basically the lineup that Pop settled on last season. Against smaller teams, the coaching staff could exchange out Gasol for a mobile power forward such as a Gay or Bertans.

Pros
The glut at shooting guard wouldn’t be so messy with DeRozan out of the way. This solution also allows an easy way to get more shooting and playmaking into the starting lineup. With Gasol basically a part-time starter, it’d give Pop a lot of flexibility on a game-to-game basis.

Cons
DeRozan isn’t a good defender at shooting guard. As a full-time small forward, he’d probably have even more issues – to the point that his offensive game could suffer. It’s difficult to imagine a lineup like this being able to finish even in the top ten in the league on the defensive end of the court.


Gay Old Time
C Pau Gasol
PF LaMarcus Aldridge
SF Rudy Gay
SG DeMar DeRozan
PG Dejounte Murray

After getting a full season under his belt following the torn Achilles tendon, Pop could view Gay as ready to get back to big minutes. Remember, Gay is a guy who never averaged fewer than 33.8 minutes per game in the ten season prior to joining the Spurs, during which he was always a full-time starter. Last season, Gay averaged 21.6 minutes and started only six games during the regular season.

Pros
Gay and DeRozan have experience starting next to each, so that would hypothetically lessen some of the growing pains. The offense wouldn’t be highly efficient but it’d probably be better than what Spurs fans witnessed last season.

Cons
The perimeter defense against speedy shooting guards and small forwards would be so bad that Pop would likely be forced to start Gasol or Poeltl alongside Aldridge to try to clog the paint. The three-point shooting would be really lacking. Adding another midrange shooter like Gay to the starting lineup equation would really clog things up.

The Centerpiece II
C Pau Gasol
PF LaMarcus Aldridge
SF Quincy Pondexter
SG DeMar DeRozan
PG Dejounte Murray

Spurs fans will remember the time Pop notoriously called Keith Bogans “The Centerpiece” of the 2009-10 squad. With Bruce Bowen retired, Pop turned to Bogans as a starter in hopes of getting a defensive stopper into starting lineup. It didn’t work, to say the least.

Pop, as one would imagine, is already talking about hoping for a defender to emerge from training camp: “I’m more worried about defense than anything because of those guys being gone. They did a great job in that regard. That’s something we’ll have to replace. We’ll find out who is capable of doing it.”

Enter Quincy Pondexter. Or Jaron Blossomgame. Or Okaro White. Or whoever. Adding a 3-and-D small forward to the starting lineup would be a very Popovichian move.

Pros
If defense is the number one focus, this would probably be the way to go. It’s difficult to imagine the Spurs being an elite defensive team this year without adding an ace defender at small forward to the starting lineup.

Cons
The offense would undoubtedly suffer. Dealing with Murray’s offensive shortcomings is difficult enough. Adding a one-dimensional (at best) small forward could really cause spacing issues, particularly against the better teams in the league. Even adding Bruce Bowen himself to the starting lineup would be difficult to justify long-term due to the hit that would be suffered on the offensive end.

Back to Beauty
C LaMarcus Aldridge
PF Davis Bertans
SF Marco Belinelli
SG DeMar DeRozan
PG Dejounte Murray

Three-pointers have never been more important than they are in today’s NBA. Last season, the Spurs were 28th in the league in three-pointers made and 26th in the league in three-point percentage. To compare, back in the 2014 championship season, the Spurs led the league in three-point percentage and were 12th in makes.

Pros
This would be a really good offensive unit. If the Spurs are return to beautiful basketball, this is probably the lineup that would do it. The amount of shooting on the court would hide Murray’s deficiencies and it would give DeRozan plenty of room to create.

Cons
The defense would be really bad. I mean, you’re talking the worst defensive team in Pop’s history of coaching basketball.

Run, Run, Run
C LaMarcus Aldridge
PF Davis Bertans
SF DeMar DeRozan
SG Lonnie Walker IV
PG Dejounte Murray

Pop has said he wants Murray to run early and run often. If the coaching staff is going to emphasize speed, this is probably the fastest starting lineup possible. Maybe switch out Chimezie Metu for Bertans if Pop wants to go 100 percent gazelle.

Pros
It’d be pretty fun to watch. Young players would play a lot of minutes in order to keep the pace high.

Cons
I don’t imagine this lineup would result in a lot of wins. Even if Pop hired Doug Moe and Paul Westhead to institute the run-and-fun offense, the efficiency would still leave a lot to be desired.

Big Ballers
C Pau Gasol
PF LaMarcus Aldridge
SF Davis Bertans
SG DeMar DeRozan
PG Dejounte Murray

Don’t forget that Pop has a history of toying with big ball. Early in Duncan’s career, he started Duncan at small forward for a stretch by inserting Will Perdue at center and shifting David Robinson to power forward. Pop also started lumbering blokes like Danny Ferry and Chucky Brown (shudder) at small forward.

If not Bertans, another Ferry/Brown type choice would be Dante Cunningham or even Metu.

Pros
With that much size on the court, the defense would probably be okay. In fact, during Pop’s big ball experiments, defense was never really a problem.

Cons
The offense would be difficult to watch. It’d pretty much be impossible to be anything other than a 15th-20th ranked offense in the league.

Youth Movement
C Jakob Poeltl
PF LaMarcus Aldridge
SF DeMar DeRozan
SG Bryn Forbes
PG Dejounte Murray

If Pop wants to start a youth movement while also staying as competitive as possible, I could see him going with something like this. To start Poetl over Gasol, the Spurs would likely have to put a sharpshooter like Forbes (in theory, at least) on the court if they have any hopes of creating adequate spacing.

Pros
Poeltl is likely to be the team’s long-term answer at center so throwing him into the fire sooner rather than later is preferred. And while I’m not convinced this is a grouping that would result in a lot of wins, this unit would give good effort and would be active on both ends.

Cons
DeRozan and Forbes would be a poor defensive duo. Who would defend strong, elite swingmen? Gasol still spreads the court a little bit. Poeltl doesn’t . . . and that’s not good when it comes to hiding Murray’s weaknesses.

Old Boys Club
C Pau Gasol
PF LaMarcus Aldridge
SF Rudy Gay
SG DeMar DeRozan
PG Patty Mills

If Pop gets tired of trying to hide Murray’s weaknesses, going old is an option. If Murray doesn't take steps in the right direction this season, I actually wouldn’t be surprised to see Pop make a move. There’s only so much you can hide a point guard in today’s league.

Pros
Mills and DeRozan would actually work together offensively due to DeRozan’s outstanding playmaking ability. The three-point shooting marksmanship would still be less than ideal but Mills would help quite a bit in that area. I don’t imagine that scoring would be much of an issue.

Cons
This would very likely be the worst of all the options defensively. Any player with even average quickness would would repeatedly exploit this starting lineup. San Antonio might be forced to change their logo to an orange traffic cone.

Degonete
C Jakob Poeltl
PF LaMarcus Aldridge
SF Rudy Gay
SG DeMar Derozan
PG Derrick White

If Murray doesn’t improve and White lives up to some of the promise we saw over the summer, the other option for Pop is handing the keys over to the Colorado native. And since it looks like one of White’s main strengths would be as a pick-and-roll initiator, it’d make sense to swap out Gasol and put in Poeltl.

Pros
If White’s starting, that means something has gone right in his development. In that timeline, this is a lineup that has a chance to be pretty good on both ends of the court, especially because White plays bigger than he is on the defensive end.

Cons
Gay doesn’t really fit as the small forward of this lineup. Unfortunately, I don’t see anyone else on the roster who would make more sense in this scenario. But, then again, that’s the story of this mismatch roster.

[NASpurs]

You should write the pros and cons of the Murray, Mills, DeRozan, Gay and Aldridge lineup. :lol

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275827&goto=newpost

[BillMc]

Wow , TimVP, so good to have you back. Your write ups are why I started coming to this site 10 years ago.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Over the course of the season.. Pop might try this: Murray, White, Derozan, Bertans, Aldridge. ..

[timvp]

You should write the pros and cons of the Murray, Mills, DeRozan, Gay and Aldridge lineup. :lol

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275827&goto=newpost

That's the alternate Anti-Gervin lineup mentioned. It'd be pretty interesting and one of the less surprising choices.

Buuuuuuuuut, the chances of Pop's starting lineup leaking more than 24 hours early and the new PA announcer getting the leaked lineup are somewhere between 0 percent and 0 percent. I doubt Pop even cares enough about the preseason to have officially made the choice by now.

[tonight...you]

That's the alternate Anti-Gervin lineup mentioned. It'd be pretty interesting and one of the less surprising choices.

Buuuuuuuuut, the chances of Pop's starting lineup leaking more than 24 hours early and the new PA announcer getting the leaked lineup is are somewhere between 0 percent and 0 percent. I doubt Pop even cares enough about the preseason to have officially made the choice by now.
He probably hasn't even thought about coaching the game.

[MaNu4Tres]

Be prepared for a lot of experimenting throughout the preseason and regular season with players around LaMarcus, DeRozan, and Murray. Those 3 are the only permanent locks. The starting lineup opening night, likely won't be the starting lineup come April.

[SAGirl]

Nothing seems like a slam dunk at this point. More than anything bc we don't know how well the young players are playing, how much they have improved, etc. and can't take Pondexter, Cunningham and co. for granted either. There's too much still unknown to really know. I expect Pop is looking around at all of those lineups and some other combinations, maybe including Marco.

[tonight...you]

Nothing seems like a slam dunk at this point. More than anything bc we don't know how well the young players are playing, how much they have improved, etc. and can't take Pondexter, Cunningham and co. for granted either. There's too much still unknown to really know. I expect Pop is looking around at all of those lineups and some other combinations, maybe including Marco.
I just like the smell of the freshness of this team. There's talent. They have potential. I'm not calling a championship, but we could see some real growth and entertaining play from this year's squad.
I have the itching inking that the conflagration of events from the past 16, or so months could be a rejuvenating salve for Pop's coaching.
We might see him on the squad for another 3 years...

[TD 21]

Times have changed. Moving DeRozan from SG to SF wouldn't be some seismic change. In fact, it would be a change in name only because wings are mostly interchangeable. It just depends on matchups. He lacks the length/strength to defend most big wings who can create their own shot, as well as the lateral quickness to defend most guards who can create their own shot.

If Mills in place of Gasol holds true, that would afford the defensive flexibility to mostly spare him from having to do either.

[SpursDynasty85]

It is funny that the obvious lineup was not in the write up:

DJ, Mills, DeRozan, Gay, Aldridge.

Also White only being a pg is something I hope wont happen. This team needs defensive and offensive shooters on the perimeter and we all hope Derrock can provide that along with our foundational staples, DD and DJ.

Next best lineup would be

Murray, Belli/White, DD, Gay, Aldridge.

If we need to go bigger we move to:

Mills, DD, Gay, Bertans, Aldridge

Or Murray, DD, Bertans, Aldridge, and Poeltl/Gasol.

[DAF86]

The two lineups that make the most sense would be:

Murray - White - DeRozan - Bertans - Aldridge

Offense: enough three pt shooting from Bertans and White to play off DeRozan and Aldridge. If Murray develops a semi-reliable three pt shot, then it would be even better.

This lineup would also be very good at running, which suppossedly is what Pop wants to do.

Defense: What White has over other good three pt shooters on the roster like Mills, Bellinelli or Forbes, is that he doesn't suck on defense (at least on paper). It is still not ideal as having a true defensive ace, but having 2 out of 3 perimeter players being average to above average on defense would mitigate some of the expected problems on that end.

Bertans' defense is also underrated. He's far from a liability out there, like most people would think.


Or...

Murray - White - DeRozan - Aldridge - Gasol

Offense: Gasol wouldn't provide the volume three pt shooting that Bertans would but he would still be able to keep defenses honest. He's certainly a much better fit alongside Aldridge and DeRozan than Poetl would be.

The whole running thing would go out the window though.

Defense: Having two 7 footers out there would definitely help the defense on the long run during the regular season.

Roster fit: Starting with 2 traditional bigmen allows for the Spurs to have a rotation of its 10 best players: Murray-White-DeRozan-Aldridge-Gasol on the SL, and Mills-Bellinelli-Gay-Bertans-Poetl on the second unit.

With the previous lineup I gave (the one with Bertans over Gasol on the SL) one of Poetl or Gasol would have to be left off.

[spurs10]

Wow , TimVP, so good to have you back. Your write ups are why I started coming to this site 10 years ago. Hear, hear! It's going to be a fun year watching the lineup changes. Great thread here, thanks! I'm thinking Pop might be upping Rudy's minutes and maybe starting him for the familiarity reasons mentioned. As mentioned here, the 3 pt.shooting would be my concern. We definitely need to see Pau shooting the ball again and we can hope that LMA and Gay will improve in that area.

[spurs10]

That's the alternate Anti-Gervin lineup mentioned. It'd be pretty interesting and one of the less surprising choices.

Buuuuuuuuut, the chances of Pop's starting lineup leaking more than 24 hours early and the new PA announcer getting the leaked lineup are somewhere between 0 percent and 0 percent. I doubt Pop even cares enough about the preseason to have officially made the choice by now. Yeah I think the pre-season will be full of experiments. That being said, I'm hoping in the name of getting DeRozan acclimated Pop might try to find some rhythm in the pre-season. I'm ready for tomorrow that's for sure.
:bobo

[timvp]

Over the course of the season.. Pop might try this: Murray, White, Derozan, Bertans, Aldridge. ..

That's probably a more realistic version of the Run, Run, Run lineup. It's small but it would be fun to watch :tu


Times have changed. Moving DeRozan from SG to SF wouldn't be some seismic change.

True. Obviously it'd be nowhere near as seismic as Bass' decision.

Then again, I haven't heard much speculation locally or nationally that DeRozan would basically just hop in and fill the same position Nephew vacated.


It is funny that the obvious lineup was not in the write up:

DJ, Mills, DeRozan, Gay, Aldridge.


It's in the explanation of the first proposed starting lineup. It'd be a throwback to last season in which Gasol starts against bigger teams and Pop adds mobility with Gay against smaller teams.

The difficult aspect about not starting Gasol or Poeltl is that you'd then have to cut one completely out of the rotation.

[DPG21920]

If I had my way:

Murray / White / DeRozan / Poeltl / LMA

[Spurs Homer]

Youth Movement
C Jakob Poeltl
PF LaMarcus Aldridge
SF DeMar DeRozan
SG Bryn Forbes
PG Dejounte Murray

I would put Derrick White into Forbes spot - and ride with that lineup!

[Das Texan]

That's the alternate Anti-Gervin lineup mentioned. It'd be pretty interesting and one of the less surprising choices.

Buuuuuuuuut, the chances of Pop's starting lineup leaking more than 24 hours early and the new PA announcer getting the leaked lineup are somewhere between 0 percent and 0 percent. I doubt Pop even cares enough about the preseason to have officially made the choice by now.

Pop is probably putting all names into a hat and picking out the starting lineup in the locker room tomorrow afternoon!

:lol

[urunobili]

Wow , TimVP, so good to have you back. Your write ups are why I started coming to this site 10 years ago.

[XDT76]

The two lineups that make the most sense would be:

Murray - White - DeRozan - Bertans - Aldridge

Offense: enough three pt shooting from Bertans and White to play off DeRozan and Aldridge. If Murray develops a semi-reliable three pt shot, then it would be even better.

This lineup would also be very good at running, which suppossedly is what Pop wants to do.

Defense: What White has over other good three pt shooters on the roster like Mills, Bellinelli or Forbes, is that he doesn't suck on defense (at least on paper). It is still not ideal as having a true defensive ace, but having 2 out of 3 perimeter players being average to above average on defense would mitigate some of the expected problems on that end.

Bertans' defense is also underrated. He's far from a liability out there, like most people would think.


Or...

Murray - White - DeRozan - Aldridge - Gasol

Offense: Gasol wouldn't provide the volume three pt shooting that Bertans would but he would still be able to keep defenses honest. He's certainly a much better fit alongside Aldridge and DeRozan than Poetl would be.

The whole running thing would go out the window though.

Defense: Having two 7 footers out there would definitely help the defense on the long run during the regular season.

Roster fit: Starting with 2 traditional bigmen allows for the Spurs to have a rotation of its 10 best players: Murray-White-DeRozan-Aldridge-Gasol on the SL, and Mills-Bellinelli-Gay-Bertans-Poetl on the second unit.

With the previous lineup I gave (the one with Bertans over Gasol on the SL) one of Poetl or Gasol would have to be left off.

Actually I would choose ypur first line up, we could still run with 2 bigs in the 2nd team as Pau would help provide some creativity that the 2nd time is lacking. Pau would play centre on Def and PF on Off, while Poeltl would be reverse. The 2nd team perimeter Def would be so bad that 2 7 footers in the mid would be required.

[Nathan89]

Degonete because White is the player I'm most interested in and I'm still not a fan of Murray.

[venitian navigator]

Thanks TIMVP for the quality thread, as you always are able to make, and because that's the real thought of us all, considering our off season...
I'm not gonna choose one of the starting five of TIMVP cause, imho, we lack perimeter defense...and DDR, also if focused on defense, can't become in one season a defensive stopper...
imho that's our biggest problem...we have tons of offensive players but we gave away all of our perimeter defenders in just one season (Kiwhi, Green, Kyle, Gino).
That's a really difficult situation...because all the people coming for them or that should play their minutes (DDR, Belli, Forbes, Mills) are all of them, no exception, considered from very bad to awful defenders...and of all of them, imho, only DDR has the tools to become something like a decent player on defense, considering he'll have to be necessarly focused on it, just because of the team clear flows.

White and Walker, on the opposite, have good or at least decent reputation as playing both sides players...but they are extremely young and unproven. The point is that, imho, we frankly have no other option than play them and make them make experience as soon as we can, despite the obvious growing pains and losses that could come just 'cause they're so young and unproven.

So, back about the starting five's projected by timvp, the one that comes the nearest to my wiew is the one with the young ones (youth movement) but no way I'd start Forbes, that's maybe our worst defensive player.
I know it will be quite impossible to start him from the beginning, but my hope is that Lonnie shows in training camp just enough to be considered starting material, also 'cause I like the pair of him and DJM together.
So starting five (aka youth movement improved): DJM - Walker - DDR - LMA - Poeltl
bench White - Belli (Mills/Forbes)- Bertans (Pondex.) Gay (Cunning.) Pau (Metu)

[cd021]

I think the best realistic lineup is Mills, Murray, DDR, LMA, and Gasol.

Mills provides a high volume 3pt shooter, something the starting lineup desperately needs. Gasol and Aldridge, together, have always yielded great defensive units-granted that often had Kawhi, Green, and Anderson playing alongside of them. Murray will be matched up against the opposing team's best guard while one of Aldridge or Gasol protect the rim.

Bench wise, Gay would play around 28 mpg including closing each half and make it more likely that Pop goes with all bench units i.e White, Beli, Betans, Gay, Poeltl.

That lineup is probably unplayable against GSW, and Houston but Pop can tweak the lineup in those games.



The Murray, DDR, Gay, LMA and Gasol lineup does have length and size which might be useful defensively but Gasol is probably the best 3pt shooter in that lineup and a low volume shooter at that. The spacing would be a mess and the offense would struggle and the defense likely wouldn't be good enough to justify making that the permanent starting unit.

[cd021]

Degonete because White is the player I'm most interested in and I'm still not a fan of Murray.

White would have to really impress to go from the Spurs rookie with the fewest played minutes in a decade to starting. He could be a good to decent NBA defender and an above average shooter. It that happens, then it would make since to start him alongside Murray and DDR with LMA and Gasol protecting the rim.

[cd021]

Youth Movement
C Jakob Poeltl
PF LaMarcus Aldridge
SF DeMar DeRozan
SG Bryn Forbes
PG Dejounte Murray

I would put Derrick White into Forbes spot - and ride with that lineup!

Rather Mills instead of Forbes and pending how White looks.

Poeltl as a Blair starter (1st six minutes of each half and some second quarter run) is an interesting move. Gasol is certainly better than him but him as a vertical spacer might signal more 3pt shooting from Aldridge. He's a good rim protector and offensive rebounder, runs the floor well, sets good screens, finishes at the rim strong, played - all good things but he fouls a lot and is poor FT shooter too.

The bench in that scenario would be White, Beli, Bertans, Gay and Gasol- potentially a very good bench unit.

[benefactor]

If I had my way:

Murray / White / DeRozan / Poeltl / LMA
:tu

[YGWHI]

All these different lineups make me think how versatile is this team now...Can't wait to see these guys on court.

[Uriel]

Surprised you left out the lineup you thought would be best in the immediate aftermath of the Leonard trade:

Murray / Bellinelli / DeRozan / Aldridge / Gasol

[dabom]

Best Lineup OP.

DD, LMA, MVPatty and anyone else. :smokin

[Drom John]

2018 the Spurs had 24 different starting lineups.
2017 27
2016 19
2015 23
2014 30 Beautiful
2013 19
2012 17
2011 8
2010 23
2009 13

I think timvp is correct on all starting lineups.

And welcome back timvp.

My current favorite: White/Murray/DeRozan/Aldridge/Poetl

[Seventyniner]

2018 the Spurs had 24 different starting lineups.
2017 27
2016 19
2015 23
2014 30 Beautiful
2013 19
2012 17
2011 8
2010 23
2009 13

I think timvp is correct on all starting lineups.

And welcome back timvp.

My current favorite: White/Murray/DeRozan/Aldridge/Poetl

Good stats. Note how little correlation there is to team success.

[BWS-1994]

Wow , TimVP, so good to have you back. Your write ups are why I started coming to this site 10 years ago.

:tu

I think Pop will revert back to The Centerpiece starting line up. But with Gay and LMA as bigs.

[cd021]

:tu

I think Pop will revert back to The Centerpiece starting line up. But with Gay and LMA as bigs.

I would be very surprised if Pop played Gay as the starting 4, he has a long history of starting two bigs and it may be the best chance for this team to stop teams - relying on rim protection.

[cd021]

Surprised you left out the lineup you thought would be best in the immediate aftermath of the Leonard trade:

Murray / Bellinelli / DeRozan / Aldridge / Gasol

Man, can't get mind around behind just how bad that defense could be. I would rather Mills than Beli for several reasons; mainly he has good chemistry with Aldridge, hustle plays like legging out long rebounds, better shot selection and is probably a better shooter and defender too.

[phxspurfan]

Against smaller/better/modern teams (GSW, Rockettes etc) Pop will go with LMA, Gay, DeRozan, Mills, Murray

off the bench:

Gasol
Bertans
Belinelli
Forbes
White/Walker/Metu
Cunningham/Pondexter/BGame/Poeltl


Walker/Metu may see a lot of time in the G League as well, since for some reason the team brought in randoms like Cunningham/Pondexter


Against the fewer larger teams or in random crappy regular season patsy matchups Pop will go with minutes eater lineups

Gasol
LMA (or rest him)/Bert/Poeltl (spot starts to see what he has)
Gay (or rest him)/Cunningham/Pondexter (to see if either have anything)
White/Mills/Beli
Murray

[timvp]

Pop goes with Gay Old Time for Game 1 of the preseason. Interesting.

[Raven]

Gay Old Time is the obvious choice.

[Chinook]

Pop goes with Gay Old Time for Game 1 of the preseason. Interesting.

Not that informative, though. I could totally see Pop playing bigger in exhibition games to save guys' legs. No reason to have DeRozan bag with Winslow in a meaningless game. Moreover, the GOT lineup matches up well with a Heat team that uses its own share of two-big, large-wing lineups.

[SAGirl]

Thought Gay had a chance but didn't know if his body was up to it. He looks in great shape and played very well starting.

[DAF86]

Regardless of who starts I think our best 5 men unit will be White, DeRozan, Gay, Bertans, Aldridge.

That lineup is as complete as this roster can offer:

-Playmaking
-Three pt shooting
-Size
-Versatility
-Good enough defense

I really wish Pop, at some point this season, considers those 5 men as the closing unit.

[Mugen]

:lol @ ^ "good enough defense" tbh.... that lineup would give up 150 to a Murderball team

[DAF86]

:lol @ ^ "good enough defense" tbh.... that lineup would give up 150 to a Murderball team

-White is a very good defender at PG.
-Bertans is an underrated defender and rim protector.
-Aldridge is our defensive anchor.
-Gay is the only guy we have with the size and physical tools to put on the elite SF's of this league.
-And well, the idea with DeRozan is that he will improve his defense under Pop.

6'4'' at PG, 6'7" at SG, 6'9" at SF, 6'10" at PF and 7 foot at center. All that size paired with the Spurs system should make for a more than decent defensive squad, tbh.

Which Spurs lineup do you think would be better than that 5 men unit I proposed?

[007nites]

I wouldn't mind

Poetl
Aldridge
Gay
Derozan
Murray

Then maybe an early sub for Gay and put Patty in the lineup at the 2 around the 6 minute mark of the 1st. I think Patty and Gay are interchangeable in the starting lineup depending on who we are facing on any given night. Murray is capable of defending any 2 in the league so you could just throw Patty on the 1.

For instance, when we face teams like GSW, Lakers, Bucks, teams with big/long SF's you would have to start Gay no matter what.

[szkorhetz]

I would like to see Murray/Demar/Gay/Bertans/LMA, TBH.

[TDomination]

I expect poetl to be starting by seasons end

[duncan2k5]

I wouldn't mind seeing Bertans at the 3 at times this season... Dude even shut down Klay Thomson while he was on him in the playoffs... Remember he was a SF internationally

[offset formation]

Over the course of the season.. Pop might try this: Murray, White, Derozan, Bertans, Aldridge. ..

This might be my favorite, on paper at least.

I've been high on White since catching several of his games in Austin. Dude will surprise Spurfan.

[SAGirl]

Regardless of who starts I think our best 5 men unit will be White, DeRozan, Gay, Bertans, Aldridge.

That lineup is as complete as this roster can offer:

-Playmaking
-Three pt shooting
-Size
-Versatility
-Good enough defense

I really wish Pop, at some point this season, considers those 5 men as the closing unit.

I am going to give you a very hot take: take Derozan out and place Murray. I am only half joking.

[ceperez]

Excellent post!

At least Spurs have a lot of flexibility in their lineup!

For many of the smaller teams in today's NBA, spurs can just beat them up with a traditional big man game. This is enough to get enough wins to make the playoffs.

The 2nd team with say Poetl, Bertans, Belinelli, White, Mills can throw in a ton of points in a very short time. You can build insurmountable leads using the 2nd team.

[YGWHI]

If Gay can hit 3's that way, I'd rather see Rudy starting at 3/4. I'm not big fan of Belli or Mills in SL...I would avoid every lineup with DeMar-Belli, DeMar-Forbes, Belli-Forbes on the floor.

[Nathan89]

I am going to give you a very hot take: take Derozan out and place Murray. I am only half joking.

Hot take or shit take? Now that's podcast segment.

[SAGirl]

Hot take or shit take? Now that's podcast segment.
It’s a hot take bc it’s premature based on what I saw in one game. Derozan hustled the least and didn’t look good.

[Mugen]

-White is a very good defender at PG.
-Bertans is an underrated defender and rim protector.
-Aldridge is our defensive anchor.
-Gay is the only guy we have with the size and physical tools to put on the elite SF's of this league.
-And well, the idea with DeRozan is that he will improve his defense under Pop.

6'4'' at PG, 6'7" at SG, 6'9" at SF, 6'10" at PF and 7 foot at center. All that size paired with the Spurs system should make for a more than decent defensive squad, tbh.

Which Spurs lineup do you think would be better than that 5 men unit I proposed?

Disagree a little bit about Bertans' defense and Rudy just doesn't have the quickness to stay in front of truly elite wings anymore.

I'm honestly fine with your lineup, just disagree with your statement that they'd be okay defensively. I'd maybe go with Murray/White/Derozan/Gay or Bertans/Lamarcus.

Spurs will be absolutely obliterated by wing scorers this year, they literally don't have a single body to put on a competent scorer out there.

How they were able to go from arguably the best wing defense in the league to likely one of the bottom 3-5 is mind boggling. Trading away Kawhi/Danny and losing Fathead without getting anything back to cover up what they did on the perimeter is actually a pretty impressive fuck up from Pop/RC this offseason even with the shitty cards they were dealt tbh....

[ATXtbh]

Ugh. A lineup with DeRozan and Mills in it would get torched.

[bklynspursfan]

Disagree a little bit about Bertans' defense and Rudy just doesn't have the quickness to stay in front of truly elite wings anymore.

I'm honestly fine with your lineup, just disagree with your statement that they'd be okay defensively. I'd maybe go with Murray/White/Derozan/Gay or Bertans/Lamarcus.

Spurs will be absolutely obliterated by wing scorers this year, they literally don't have a single body to put on a competent scorer out there.

How they were able to go from arguably the best wing defense in the league to likely one of the bottom 3-5 is mind boggling. Trading away Kawhi/Danny and losing Fathead without getting anything back to cover up what they did on the perimeter is actually a pretty impressive fuck up from Pop/RC this offseason even with the shitty cards they were dealt tbh....

I doubt they'll be that bad. I'd say maybe middle of the pack, (tho wouldn't be surprised if they sneak in the top 10 barely) mainly because they will still protect the paint/rim well and Murray will likely improve a bunch on that end. Team defense/communication will be big for these guys, it's going to have to be a group effort.

[playbonner15]

I wouldn't mind seeing Bertans at the 3 at times this season... Dude even shut down Klay Thomson while he was on him in the playoffs
This is interesting. I wonder why Pop wont experiment with Bertans at the 3

[NASpurs]

Is there any combination of lineups that doesn't cause either the starters or bench to get royally screwed over on defense? Just seems no matter what, there has to be compromises defensively so one-trick ponies like Forbes (who's not even that good at what he does) may or may not get it going offensively for any individual game. Seems like that's going to be the narrative for this year.

[DAF86]

If you try to form the best defensive team with this roster it will probably be:

Murray, Blossomgame, Cunningham, Aldridge and Poeltl.

Absolutely atrocious, and the worst thing is they probably wouldn't even be that good on D. :lol

[ceperez]

Disagree a little bit about Bertans' defense and Rudy just doesn't have the quickness to stay in front of truly elite wings anymore.

I'm honestly fine with your lineup, just disagree with your statement that they'd be okay defensively. I'd maybe go with Murray/White/Derozan/Gay or Bertans/Lamarcus.

Spurs will be absolutely obliterated by wing scorers this year, they literally don't have a single body to put on a competent scorer out there.

How they were able to go from arguably the best wing defense in the league to likely one of the bottom 3-5 is mind boggling. Trading away Kawhi/Danny and losing Fathead without getting anything back to cover up what they did on the perimeter is actually a pretty impressive fuck up from Pop/RC this offseason even with the shitty cards they were dealt tbh....

I agree that Spurs don't have anybody to stop an all-star wing. I don't think Cunningham or Pondexter are cut out for that job. Gay is too old to do that full time. DeRozan needs the energy for offense. Murray, Walker, White aren't big enough for the likes of LeBron, Durant or Leonard.

[TD 21]

Disagree a little bit about Bertans' defense and Rudy just doesn't have the quickness to stay in front of truly elite wings anymore.

I'm honestly fine with your lineup, just disagree with your statement that they'd be okay defensively. I'd maybe go with Murray/White/Derozan/Gay or Bertans/Lamarcus.

Spurs will be absolutely obliterated by wing scorers this year, they literally don't have a single body to put on a competent scorer out there.

How they were able to go from arguably the best wing defense in the league to likely one of the bottom 3-5 is mind boggling. Trading away Kawhi/Danny and losing Fathead without getting anything back to cover up what they did on the perimeter is actually a pretty impressive fuck up from Pop/RC this offseason even with the shitty cards they were dealt tbh....

Bertans rates as a plus defender overall and was 15th in defensive fg% at the rim last season. As an aside, Gasol was 3rd, Poeltl was 8th, Aldridge was 10th . . . https://stats.nba.com/players/defensive-impact/?Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&CF=DEF_RIM_FGA*GE*150&sort=DEF_RIM_FG_PCT&dir=-1

White-DeRozan-Gay-Bertans-Aldridge, is probably the most balanced, well rounded lineup possible on this team. Saying that speaks to how poorly constructed this roster is and because of the lack of balance, they won't be able to get to it often.

:tu

[SpursDynasty85]

New Starting Lineup now that the Spurs are playing like a lower tier lottery team:

Poeltl
Aldridge
Derozan
Forbes
White

This line up has the best combination of shooting and playmaking along with defense to surround Aldridge and Derozan. Like TIMVP mentioned earlier, Derozan, Aldridge, and White need to be regulars. Forbes is young and shooting well from the 3 but he should be limited to around 20 mpg as well because he is a defensive liability eventually. Derozan will fill in at the SG the other times with a combination of Gay/Bertans/Metu for the 3 the other times. I insert Poeltl (still limited minutes) because Aldridge likes to play the 4 although he has been playing the 5 capably he seems to gaurd most 4's ok but on offense he is such an isolation long midrange guy that when he misses (been a lot lately) there is aboslutely no chance of offensive rebounds. Poelt'l should help in that regard.

Bench (sooner than later)

Gasol
Bertans/Gay
Metu
Walker
Mills

Gasol is a decent backup 5 and can help with communication, chemistry, and ball movement. Metu is young and athletic and needs to be in there purely for those reasons alone. Bertans is a solid backup 3/4 to couple with Metu and Gay. (Please no Cunningham) Since Derozan will play half his minutes at SG/SF that leave good minutes to split between Metu, Bertans, and Gay each getting around 15-25 mpg. Walker should probably just get his legs under him and get experience with Gasol and Mills in the 2nd lineup but if he is playing and defending well he can replace Forbes in the finishing line with White, Derozan, Walker, and Aldridge. Depending on who we need we can choose between these other 5 to play along with them finishing the game: Metu, Bertans, Gay, Poelt'l, Gasol.

[JeffDuncan]

Derozan will fill in...

If you're using our best player like a Band-aid your ideas are not even worth discussing.

[DAF86]

Regardless of who starts I think our best 5 men unit will be White, DeRozan, Gay, Bertans, Aldridge.

That lineup is as complete as this roster can offer:

-Playmaking
-Three pt shooting
-Size
-Versatility
-Good enough defense

I really wish Pop, at some point this season, considers those 5 men as the closing unit.

We haven't seen this lineup once all season. :lol

[SpursDynasty85]

If you're using our best player like a Band-aid your ideas are not even worth discussing.

What are you talking about? Im just saying he will be starting SF and playing SG at times during the game. That is probably what he has been doing his whole career. Although he really acts like the pg on offense.

[slick'81]

Im all for starting poodle/white or bertans. At this point let the tinkering begin

[DAF86]

New Starting Lineup now that the Spurs are playing like a lower tier lottery team:

Poeltl
Aldridge
Derozan
Forbes
White

This line up has the best combination of shooting and playmaking along with defense to surround Aldridge and Derozan. Like TIMVP mentioned earlier, Derozan, Aldridge, and White need to be regulars. Forbes is young and shooting well from the 3 but he should be limited to around 20 mpg as well because he is a defensive liability eventually. Derozan will fill in at the SG the other times with a combination of Gay/Bertans/Metu for the 3 the other times. I insert Poeltl (still limited minutes) because Aldridge likes to play the 4 although he has been playing the 5 capably he seems to gaurd most 4's ok but on offense he is such an isolation long midrange guy that when he misses (been a lot lately) there is aboslutely no chance of offensive rebounds. Poelt'l should help in that regard.

Bench (sooner than later)

Gasol
Bertans/Gay
Metu
Walker
Mills

Gasol is a decent backup 5 and can help with communication, chemistry, and ball movement. Metu is young and athletic and needs to be in there purely for those reasons alone. Bertans is a solid backup 3/4 to couple with Metu and Gay. (Please no Cunningham) Since Derozan will play half his minutes at SG/SF that leave good minutes to split between Metu, Bertans, and Gay each getting around 15-25 mpg. Walker should probably just get his legs under him and get experience with Gasol and Mills in the 2nd lineup but if he is playing and defending well he can replace Forbes in the finishing line with White, Derozan, Walker, and Aldridge. Depending on who we need we can choose between these other 5 to play along with them finishing the game: Metu, Bertans, Gay, Poelt'l, Gasol.

Sorry bro, but that lineup sucks.

-Only two players that can hit threes.
-Two defensive liabilities on the perimeter.
-And an awkard fit of two traditional bigmen. We have already tried that and failed miserably.

[r0drig0lac]

this team has already proved that the problem is not with the rotations tbh

[SpursDynasty85]

Sorry bro, but that lineup sucks.

-Only two players that can hit threes.
-Two defensive liabilities on the perimeter.
-And an awkard fit of two traditional bigmen. We have already tried that and failed miserably.

When we tried that Forbes, White, and Poeltl were all playing worse. Each of them took a good step forward since the beginning of the year.

[SpursDynasty85]

this team has already proved that the problem is not with the rotations tbh

Well if you think Belli and Cunningham deserve tons of minutes, then I'll disagree with you. They had their moments but the point I'm making is we need to get the best combinations on the floor that will: maximize our wins and give young guys experience. I think these lineups do that. Will we miraculously be a 50 win team. Nope. My expectations are set we are likely a lottery team anyway this year.

You could argue we will actually lose more playing Cunningham, Belli, and Mills so much this making our tank even better but tanking should include giving our young guys on the roster experience. It so happens our young guys could probably outplay our older guys even if they dont grasp the system as well.

[r0drig0lac]

Well if you think Belli and Cunningham deserve tons of minutes, then I'll disagree with you. They had their moments but the point I'm making is we need to get the best combinations on the floor that will: maximize our wins and give young guys experience. I think these lineups do that. Will we miraculously be a 50 win team. Nope. My expectations are set we are likely a lottery team anyway this year.

You could argue we will actually lose more playing Cunningham, Belli, and Mills so much this making our tank even better but tanking should include giving our young guys on the roster experience. It so happens our young guys could probably outplay our older guys even if they dont grasp the system as well.

It's actually the opposite, I agree with you about it, these players do not even deserve to be on the team (and another 4 or 5), so I say no matter how much you try to change the lineups, the scrubs will still have minutes on the court.

[SpursDynasty85]

It's actually the opposite, I agree with you about it, these players do not even deserve to be on the team (and another 4 or 5), so I say no matter how much you try to change the lineups, the scrubs will still have minutes on the court.

We'll see. Pop has never faced lottery times since the 90's so at some point it only makes sense to give the young guys burn. Unfortunately my expectations of this team are lottery. I have never seen such an incredible jump in depth around the league especially the West. Well you could probably blame these league rule changes. Gives young loweriq players more freedom to do what they do best, jack up 3's.

[DAF86]

At this point I would play this rotation:

Start game: Forbes, DeRozan, Gay, Bertans, Aldridge

6 minutes in: White, Mills, DeRozan, Bertans, Gasol

9 minutes in: White, Mills, Belinelli (or Walker), Aldridge, Gasol

Start 2Q: White, Mills, Belinelli (or Walker), Aldridge, Gasol

3 minutes in: Mills, Forbes, DeRozan, Gay, Gasol

6 minutes in: White, DeRozan, Gay, Bertans, Aldridge

Repeat on the second half.

DeRozan - 36 minutes
Aldridge - 36 minutes
Bertans - 30 minutes
White - 30 minutes
Gay - 30 minutes
Gasol - 24 minutes
Mills - 24 minutes
Forbes - 18 minutes
Belinelli (or Walker) - 12 minutes

[DAF86]

Regardless of who starts I think our best 5 men unit will be White, DeRozan, Gay, Bertans, Aldridge.

That lineup is as complete as this roster can offer:

-Playmaking
-Three pt shooting
-Size
-Versatility
-Good enough defense

I really wish Pop, at some point this season, considers those 5 men as the closing unit.

25 games in and we have yet to see this lineup. :lol

[r0drig0lac]

no matter the adjustments, the lack of talent causes that at some point all the effort is lost (besides Pop's insistence on keeping the small and useless shooters in the court in every fucking minute), it is useless

[TheGreatYacht]

Start Poeltl or Bertans. Anyone but Dante Cunningham for fucks sake. He shouldn't even be in the rotation much less starting and playing 30+ a night.

[DAF86]

Regardless of who starts I think our best 5 men unit will be White, DeRozan, Gay, Bertans, Aldridge.

That lineup is as complete as this roster can offer:

-Playmaking
-Three pt shooting
-Size
-Versatility
-Good enough defense

I really wish Pop, at some point this season, considers those 5 men as the closing unit.

Been saying it all season long. Great to finally see it happen. More of this please.