Game Thoughts: Preseason Game 4 - Spurs @ Hawks - 10/10/18

[timvp]

https://i.imgur.com/HChDBac.jpg

-In their first game without their defensive dynamo, the Spurs were really, really terrible on defense. To say Dejounte Murray’s presence on that end was missed would be a monumental understatement. For most of the game, the Hawks did whatever they wanted to do against San Antonio’s defense. The Spurs looked slow and disjointed on that end.

-Offensively, the Spurs did well. White next to DeRozan worked well, as did letting Gasol facilitate at the top of the key. Even with Lamarcus Aldridge resting, the Spurs got a whole host of open shots.

-All eyes were on Derrick White as he took the reins as San Antonio’s new starting point guard. I thought he played well. The fact that he’s not a true, true point guard isn’t a big deal when he’s playing next to DeRozan. In fact, DeRozan is the better playmaker and passer (and maybe even a better ballhandler), so White can play off the ball. Thankfully, the second-year pro is a quality spot-up shooter and moves well without the ball. If he’s playing well, White should average double figures in points playing next to DeRozan in the starting lineup. Defensively against the Hawks, I thought his defense in the first quarter was solid. Unfortunately, his D fell off a cliff (with the rest of the team) as the game progressed.

-DeMar DeRozan was going to take on a lot of point guard responsibilities with Murray starting. That’s going to be even more the case with White starting. In terms of playmaking, DeRozan did well. He created a plethora of open shots for his teammates, while rarely appearing to be out of control. His scoring underwhelmed, though, as it has for much of the preseason. His aggression was better but his shot selection was iffy. On the plus side, he showed what he can do in terms of drawing contact and getting to the line. On defense, DeRozan was definitely part of the problem. He had a couple decent plays here and there but for the most part he was detrimental on that end.

-Rudy Gay’s night was a tale of two sides of the court. On offense, he was once against pretty damn great. His shot looks fantastic; he’s getting really good elevation and his touch is at midseason form. At this rate, it really does look like he could average north of 15 points per game. Passing – never Gay’s strong suit – was another area he shined against Atlanta. But, oh my, was his defense bad. Taurean Prince roasted him, particularly in the first quarter. When the Hawks ran Prince through screens, Gay couldn’t stay close to him at all. Watching Gay in this game makes me really question whether he can play small forward anymore. He looked completely overmatched against Prince on the perimeter, which is a scary thought. What’s going to happen when Gay goes up an actual All-Star level small forward? Later in the game, Gay played power forward on defense and that allowed him to be not as much of a negative. As the season progresses, Pop may learn that playing Gay at small forward is simply not possible due to his lack of mobility on defense.

-Pau Gasol has now put together back-to-back encouraging outings. His passing was outstanding, as evident by his team-high ten assists. He also took advantage of open looks, battled on the boards and ran the court well. The blemish on his night was, you guessed it, his defense. He wasn’t putting in much effort at guarding the perimeter or helping defend pick-and-rolls.

-Dante Cunningham got the start in place of Aldridge and offered a mixed bag. I liked that he was physical, didn’t hesitate taking open shots and made the right reads passing-wise. On the other side of the coin, his lack of flexibility on defense just made matters worse. In theory, you’d think he could help Gay on someone like Prince but Cunningham was probably even more overmatched that Gay was when trying to move his feet out on the perimeter. He’s decently mobile for a stretch four but don’t confuse him for someone who can buy minutes at small forward.

-Bryn Forbes was locked in offensively. He emerged from the gates full of confidence looking for his own shots and he delivered. Given his shortcomings, Forbes has to be a high-volume sharpshooter to have positive value in the NBA – and he was exactly that on this night. Unfortunately, he too was part of the problem on defense. A rather large part, in fact. His defense against ballhandlers was poor and he made a handful of mental mistakes when navigating switches.

-Patty Mills looked comfortable in his new yet very similar role as White’s backup. He pushed the pace, made things happen and his passing was a positive for the second straight preseason affair. But, yes, his defense was poor. He just didn’t look very interested on that end of the court.

-Marco Belinelli continues to fire away. He provided a spark and helped the Spurs stay afloat during a couple lulls in their offensive output. I actually liked his defensive effort but he was caught overplaying a few times and found himself out of position. That said, I’d say he was one of the few players who didn’t play far below his potential defensively.

-It was another forgettable outing for Jakob Poeltl. Yes, he grabbed six rebounds in 17 minutes but seemingly another half-dozen bounced off his fingertips. His passing remains as good as advertised but his softness finishing around the basket is puzzling for someone what was nearly automatic in the paint last season. He needs to gather himself and go up stronger than what we’ve seen in preseason.

-Davis Bertans didn’t do himself any favors on this night. Even with Aldridge taking the evening off, Bertans couldn’t gain any traction in his attempt to secure a spot in the rotation. I thought he was poor in just about every aspect. He rushed shots on offense, was weak on the glass and didn’t provide any resistance on defense. It’s looking questionable whether Bertans will be part of the rotation on opening night, which is surprising since he appeared to be a lock heading into the preseason.

-With Pop playing a somewhat real-life rotation, it was interesting to see Chimezie Metu get some burn. I actually liked what I saw. He doesn’t seem to lack confidence and he was probably the best bigman in terms of moving his feet on defense. If he can add a consistent jumper, there’s a chance that Metu could eventually crack the regular season rotation because he brings an element of length, athleticism and swiftness that this team otherwise is lacking.

[DAF86]

Hopefully the lack of defense is due to folks being extra cautious in terms of effort during the preseason after seeing two teammates getting season ending injuries even before the season started.

[phxspurfan]

Opposing backcourts will go for 40 on us every night. It will get old fast.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

I could see bertans and maybe one of the picks get traded for a SF at some point this season.

[playbonner15]

I could see bertans and maybe one of the picks get traded for a SF at some point this season.
Or they'll just call up Huestis

[Russ]

This team is slow . . .

[Jay.From.NbTx]

Agree on everything.
Looked good offensively, liked what i saw. But defense was Pretty shitty.
Hawks were making everything tho tbh, scrubs Taureen Prince and Alex Len were playing like Allstars 😂
Silver lining was our offense.

[TDomination]

If our offense can be remotely close to this good every night, I'm sure well be decent enough on defense to win plenty of games.

Even with this lineup, well have a top 15 defense.

[Holden_Caulfield]

so our main ballhanders/playmakers that are actually good at handling the ball is gay and dede, who are iso players, this is gonna be a long season.

[MaNu4Tres]

This team wont make the playoffs. They are way too vulnerable on D on the perimeter. Its about personnel first and foremost, not some magic shell drill or system.

Maybe next year they can bring back Barry with the MLE so Pop can run out Mills, Forbes, Marco, and Barry at the 4 -- you know they need more 3 pointers!

Mills, Pau and Marco were unnecssary fools gold additions or re ups that move the needle as much as I do. At least they have gotten the drafts right.

[venitian navigator]

I agree they could have been scared by the two injuries, but the point is that you're gonna be injured a lot more playing on offense than on defense...for sure they will play with more intensity in real games, but its a point we don't have the personel for playing a decent perimeter defense...expecially considering that the best two at it are actually out respectively for the seson and at least two months.
I think the main reason why Pop could have played Walker was this...he's actually our second best defensive player.

[Dhbsr555]

Let’s wait for the season this group may suprise us

[ceperez]

Defense against a young mobile team is going to be a very big problem. Bertans just looked out of place!

The bright side, at least the team had some offense.

White had decent numbers, +6 and 6 rebounds too. I think he's going to get better as he gets more reps. He's got no choice, nobody else is taking his place.

The offense looked good, the defense was just not there.

Interesting that Metu got some time. Spurs may need to play him more to get some young legs on the court.

Cunningham appears to have questionable mobility. He was doing a lot of good things like screening, but his shot percentages weren't great.

DeRozan has a habit of taking really bad shots. He still needs to figure out how to be more efficient.

[tbdog]

Defense will be a concern all year. But Pop's plan should be top 15 and not bottom 10 when it comes down to defense. Will be interesting what schemes the team runs. I usually pick it but I haven't seen a pre season game except for some of the Pistons game.

[r0drig0lac]

-I never would never ever play mills and forbes together (NEVER)

-would use only Aldridge and Jakob as center (and in cases of small ball Gay or Bertans, maybe Metu), Gasol simply can not play basketball on both sides of the court in an acceptable way, all his offensive quality does not make up for the complete defensive disaster in an alloy based almost 100% on screens and pick and roll.


-the Spurs need physical wings, the team is small in the 1/2/3 positions (especially without Dejounte), and this will hurt the team in every game, it's really scary.

[r0drig0lac]

This team wont make the playoffs. They are way too vulnerable on D on the perimeter. Its about personnel first and foremost, not some magic shell drill or system.

Maybe next year they can bring back Barry with the MLE so Pop can run out Mills, Forbes, Marco, and Barry at the 4 -- you know they need more 3 pointers!

Mills, Pau and Marco were unnecssary fools gold additions or re ups that move the needle as much as I do. At least they have gotten the drafts right.
this time people will realize this from day 1


I agree they could have been scared by the two injuries, but the point is that you're gonna be injured a lot more playing on offense than on defense...for sure they will play with more intensity in real games, but its a point we don't have the personel for playing a decent perimeter defense...expecially considering that the best two at it are actually out respectively for the seson and at least two months.
I think the main reason why Pop could have played Walker was this...he's actually our second best defensive player.
x1000


I do not agree with the OP when he speaks of lack of effort and defensive interest, Forbes and Mills will never be positive because they simply do not have what it takes to defend in the nba due to ridiculous current rules, they will be negative even in good offensive games, they are easily emasculated and can not fight between the screens. Marco even being a bad defender, at least he has the size to annoy opponents
Gasol can not play anymore, he's old and slow, simple like that.

[spurs10]

Thanks for the write-up! Well done and not complicated. It is the party line that we probably can improve our offense from last season and the issue is going to be the defense. This game illuminated that. My biggest focus is how to use the 2nd or 3rd best player on our team, Rudy Gay? 6th man if he can't start at SF? Now I do wonder if Pop will start Gay at the 4 ever. Perhaps it doesn't matter too much if he gets on the court soon and plays big minutes. I've been really hoping for Bertans being able to play SF strong enough on defense to fill that gap.

Pop should be compelled. I am.

[ceperez]

Spurs need a quick footed player to guard SFs. I'm guessing that's going to be either Metu or possibly even Huestis. Cunningham and Gay are just too slow for this job.

[bklynspursfan]

I agree they could have been scared by the two injuries, but the point is that you're gonna be injured a lot more playing on offense than on defense...for sure they will play with more intensity in real games, but its a point we don't have the personel for playing a decent perimeter defense...expecially considering that the best two at it are actually out respectively for the seson and at least two months.
I think the main reason why Pop could have played Walker was this...he's actually our second best defensive player.

Would be very surprised if they don't make the playoffs. It's still very early, and if they're putting up a lot of points, it'll be enough for them to get the Ws needed to get in.

Pop is still seeing what works, who works with who, and it's gonna take time for guys to figure out the defensive scheme's. They won't be shutting anyone down most nights, but they can be decent on that end.

[weeks]

DD does command attention and has good playmaking, defense will look better with LMA, trae young made a hats-off shot...
overall im happy with the game. we knew defense was gonna take a hit, but the offense looks promising. demar looks very smooth, just needs to tweak that shot selection. he makes some good finds too, and gets respect from the opponent's d*
gay looks fully comfortable in his new role on the team and i expect him to continue starting indefinitely
bryn showing out like this really annoys me tbh


*cept at the 3pt line probably..that one missed 3 was painful

[Fireball]

as expected the defense will be THE challenge in this season ... Murray and Aldridge are good enough to give a Starting 5 enough consistency on that end, but without Murray the Spurs are Toast.

really sad that Bertans once again fell into Pops doghouse and is mentally crushed by it ... looked solid in the first preseason game but fell off since then

Poeltl weakness puzzles me ... he looked like a tank in Toronto

[Floyd Pacquiao]

2010-11 all over again. Bad defense, good offensively.

[SAGirl]

-I never would never ever play mills and forbes together (NEVER)

-would use only Aldridge and Jakob as center (and in cases of small ball Gay or Bertans, maybe Metu), Gasol simply can not play basketball on both sides of the court in an acceptable way, all his offensive quality does not make up for the complete defensive disaster in an alloy based almost 100% on screens and pick and roll.


-the Spurs need physical wings, the team is small in the 1/2/3 positions (especially without Dejounte), and this will hurt the team in every game, it's really scary.
Agree.

Multiple quotes function is disabled but I agree with Manu4tres as well.

[venitian navigator]

I just don't understand why Bertans isn't playing more (expecilly after the two years contract). This lack of confidence (to the point Cunningham has been preferred to him in the starting line up) isn't gonna improve him...imho he's better suited than Cunningham for playing in the wings...not only because (on defense) he has faster legs, but also 'cause (on offense) he should be a far better shooter and he has always played explointing screens...

[SAGirl]

as expected the defense will be THE challenge in this season ... Murray and Aldridge are good enough to give a Starting 5 enough consistency on that end, but without Murray the Spurs are Toast.

really sad that Bertans once again fell into Pops doghouse and is mentally crushed by it ... looked solid in the first preseason game but fell off since then

Poeltl weakness puzzles me ... he looked like a tank in Toronto
What I am about to say is premature and I hope my perception changes but I see Bertans falling off. He’s never been a physical player, doesn’t grab rebounds like he’s 6’10’and he’s playing with a lot of really defensively challenged guards that Pop isn’t going to bench. If Metu or Cunningham come in and do a better job defending, where the team is bad, Pop would rather cut Davis minutes than separate or bench guards that are conceding everything. Perhaps competition for playing time will give Davis a sense of urgency but he’s the easiest one to sub out bc the team has no alternatives with their guards unless they trade...

[kobyz]

Bartens just doesn't have what it takes, he was patethic with his softness even in europe, dont know why spurs even borough him, i wrote him off long time...

[ceperez]

I just don't understand why Bertans isn't playing more (expecilly after the two years contract). This lack of confidence (to the point Cunningham has been preferred to him in the starting line up) isn't gonna improve him...imho he's better suited than Cunningham for playing in the wings...not only because (on defense) he has faster legs, but also 'cause (on offense) he should be a far better shooter and he has always played explointing screens...

The problem is... they signed Belinelli who also plays the same natural position as Bertans! Bertans is too thin at the PF position.

[skookumchuck]

The problem is... they signed Belinelli who also plays the same natural position as Bertans! Bertans is too thin at the PF position.
Bertans is way better defensively than Beli, but Beli is, once again, a bit of the coache's pet.
Davis looked bad on defensive end last night, at times, uncharacteristically, giving up on possessions. But, a really large lump of it goes to the guards he played with. They were so bad on defence, that Poeltl, Bertans and Metu had to cover too much.

[Fireball]

What I am about to say is premature and I hope my perception changes but I see Bertans falling off. He’s never been a physical player, doesn’t grab rebounds like he’s 6’10’and he’s playing with a lot of really defensively challenged guards that Pop isn’t going to bench. If Metu or Cunningham come in and do a better job defending, where the team is bad, Pop would rather cut Davis minutes than separate or bench guards that are conceding everything. Perhaps competition for playing time will give Davis a sense of urgency but he’s the easiest one to sub out bc the team has no alternatives with their guards unless they trade...

I do not see this as a premature statement at all ... I always wanted for Davis to have more consistent playing time, but I am losing my patience ... but I guess thats because all is for naught anyway after Murray's injury

[emanueldavidginobili]

The Spurs are not physically tough enough literally every single player on this team is a finesse player. Don’t have a single player with any type of grit and toughness, well we have one player but he just blew out his knee the other day. Especially the second unit, Mills, Forbes, Marco, Bertans and Poeltl have to be bottom 20 in the entire league in physicality and athletic ability. Any NBA player in this league sees those players and salivates at the opportunity to go at them. We need players that are athletic and tough It’s 2018 and these kids are super athletic now and we have one of those on this team maybe two with Lonnie. Offensively we will be fine but defensively we are going to get pushed around and dominated.

[Dverde]

To lose DJ for the entire season is so depressing. :pctoss

[ceperez]

The Spurs are not physically tough enough literally every single player on this team is a finesse player. Don’t have a single player with any type of grit and toughness, well we have one player but he just blew out his knee the other day. Especially the second unit, Mills, Forbes, Marco, Bertans and Poeltl have to be bottom 20 in the entire league in physicality and athletic ability. Any NBA player in this league sees those players and salivates at the opportunity to go at them. We need players that are athletic and tough It’s 2018 and these kids are super athletic now and we have one of those on this team maybe two with Lonnie. Offensively we will be fine but defensively we are going to get pushed around and dominated.

That's why I've been promoting the idea of getting Huestis. Yet some moron in ST keeps arguing that he can't shoot. We've got shooters galore but nobody in the roster can stop anyone!

I would like to say Metu has potential, but he's a rookie and needs years of experience to really be a good defensive player.

This team can't guard an athletic 6'7" player!

Bertans is too thin and can easily get muscled.
Cunningham has feet of lead.
Gay has lost all speed in moving his feet.
DeRozan has arms that are too short.
Pondexter... is three years removed from his healthy years.

[MaNu4Tres]

That's why I've been promoting the idea of getting Huestis. Yet some moron in ST keeps arguing that he can't shoot. We've got shooters galore but nobody in the roster can stop anyone!

I would like to say Metu has potential, but he's a rookie and needs years of experience to really be a good defensive player.

This team can't guard an athletic 6'7" player!

Bertans is too thin and can easily get muscled.
Cunningham has feet of lead.
Gay has lost all speed in moving his feet.
DeRozan has arms that are too short.
Pondexter... is three years removed from his healthy years.

Lol Metu is not a 3, hes a modern day 5 that can play the 4. But yes, he will be able to defend wings better than any other big off switches/hedges. Last night he had a really awesome possession defending Prince.

[ceperez]

Lol Metu is not a 3, hes a modern day 5 that can play the 4. But yes, he will be able to defend wings better than any other big off switches/hedges. Last night he had a really awesome possession defending Prince.

This is my point, Metu may be the best player in team to guard an athletic 6'7" wing player. BTW, Metu gets bullied against average PF/C in the NBA.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Spurs need to call up Shane Heal, Nando De Colu, and Alex Garcia tbh. All hands on deck.

[Dex]

Hopefully the lack of defense is due to folks being extra cautious in terms of effort during the preseason after seeing two teammates getting season ending injuries even before the season started.

This is my hope as well. I'll reserve judgement on the defense until the regular season actually starts. I don't really expect the guys to be going 100% on defense during the preseason, especially after seeing what happened to Walker and Murray.

[Dex]

Spurs need to call up Shane Heal, Nando De Colu, and Alex Garcia tbh. All hands on deck.

http://e.lvme.me/plmusf5.jpg

[SpursDynasty85]

Metu will need to play more. He was apparently the best shot blocker in training camp and looks like it in preseason. Also moves his feet well on the perimeter.

Aldridge, Metu, Gay, DeRozan, Forbes starting line up

Poeltl/Gasol, Bertans/Cunningham, Belli, White, Mills

[slick'81]

Poodle power is def still is bust tier

[Kobe'sAchilles]

I wouldn't out too much stock into this game. The hawks are a juggernaut offensively. It's unfair to ask Forbes/mills to be able to guard Jeremy lin or a rookie trae money young.
On a side note I miss blue font

[buujness]

It's too bad that the Spurs didn't look into bringing one of their stashed wings over this past offseason; either Hanga or Dangubic would be useful to throw at some of these athletic wing scorers.

As it stands, it seems like the Spurs are going to go with what they have, and hope that either Walker or Huestis can give them something defensively. Failing that, they're going to try and hold on until the buy-out market opens and look for someone there (Ariza or DeMarre Carroll would be the top candidates).

[Amuseddaysleeper]

DeRozan was a terrible move. The scary thing is it gets even worse in the playoffs.

Spurs should've gone for draft picks instead.

[Chinook]

People are making too much out of this game. The problem with the defense had as much to do with the pace than anything else. Without Aldridge, the Spurs had no way to slow the game down. They scored really well without him, but their defense eventually got tired and broke down. Despite what some people think, I don't not believe the loss of Murray will have no effect on the defense. I don't think they can be an elite defense with the personnel they have now (though I guess I was skeptical even before DeJounte got hurt). But there's a wide gap between being an elite D and being good enough on that end, and they can still do the later with proper scheming. Pairing Forbes and Mills hurts them there, as does Poeltl regressing.

Having two bigs play together is the solution so long as the players hold onto the mentality of contesting threes and forcing their men to move inside the arc. I really did like what Cunningham brought, but he was also part of the problem. He was definitely not helping with the rebounding either, and that killed the Spurs almost as much. The issue with playing Gasol and Aldridge together is that Poe isn't getting it done on the bench. This isn't like 2016 where the team had Lee and Dedmon on the bench to play big the whole time. Poe was so bad that Pop pulled him out and talked to him, and Metu came in and looked immediately better, to the extent that Pop had to quickly sub him back out to prevent Jakob's confidence from shattering. As I've said, I'm not done with Poeltl, but the dude needs to EARN his spot in the rotation, not be given it by lack of competition. I actually like Bertans and have no idea why he's struggling to get minutes every game. Yes, he does some things wrong, but so many guys are doing wrong things right now. He can shoot, has size and is an active shot-blocker. Him getting time is important for the team's two-way destiny.

[8FOR!3]

http://e.lvme.me/plmusf5.jpg

Bring back the hammer!!

[SAGirl]

I wouldn't out too much stock into this game. The hawks are a juggernaut offensively. It's unfair to ask Forbes/mills to be able to guard Jeremy lin or a rookie trae money young.
On a side note I miss blue font
what no blue font? damn. no blue font, no multiple quotes... :pctoss

[Kobe'sAchilles]

testing

[Kobe'sAchilles]

testing
didn't work​

[Namundy]

Projecting this team to miss the playoffs based on one preseason game immediately following DJ's injury seems like a knee jerk reaction. They are going to struggle mightily on the defensive end, particularly on the perimeter early in the season -- that is a given. I don't have faith in Huestis to fill this role nor do I have faith that Walker can come back in January with elite defensive traits (although I am optimistic about his long term defensive potential). This seems like a time where RC needs to be earning his paycheck and gauging the market on Mills, Forbes, & Bertans. Those guys are expendable but isn't there a time frame restriction on trading Forbes & Bertans since they just re-signed? Offloading Mills is the best option but that seems unlikely considering the intangibles that Pop covets and his unattractive contract. Mills/Forbes in particular needs to be sorted out though, there is no point in having them both. I'm glad Forbes had a nice game and maybe that helps his confidence but yeah, smoking the pre-season Atlanta Hawks does not impress me one bit.

[bklynspursfan]

This is my hope as well. I'll reserve judgement on the defense until the regular season actually starts. I don't really expect the guys to be going 100% on defense during the preseason, especially after seeing what happened to Walker and Murray.

Agreed, even then it'll take a little time. Guys gotta learn the schemes, positioning, etc... I don't think last night is a reflection how they'll be defensively this year.

[rjv]

i'm going to hold off on defensive evaluations for now as veterans rarely put all their effort on that end in the preseason and i would also think that there are some that are weary of injury considering what has happened over the last week.

[SAGirl]

1050363718620631040
1050367000982245376
1050369033760100352

[SpurSpike]

Come on you pussies season hasnt even started yet. Stop with all the depression you all are worse than demar! At least watch the 1st month of real basketball before you all cliff jump from preseason games...

[r0drig0lac]

1050363718620631040
1050367000982245376
1050369033760100352

....

[coachmac87]

DeRozan was a terrible move. The scary thing is it gets even worse in the playoffs.

Spurs should've gone for draft picks instead.

Honestly shocked you even mentioned playoffs tbh...

[Gordy58]

Hoping Carroll gets bought out

[John B]

Spurs don’t have premier defender right now with Murray’s absence. Hopefully chemistry will help develop team defense

[Chinook]

Spurs don’t have premier defender right now with Murray’s absence. Hopefully chemistry will help develop team defense

Murray wasn't a perimeter defender, tbh. He was essentially a guard version of Draymond Green. Team chemistry might help replace Murray's impact, but if the team needs an ace defender on check outside scorers, they needed one before. If they didn't need one before, they don't now. A guy like Huestis was only going to be able to replace so much of what Murray did. Just different roles.

[Em-City]

Murray wasn't a perimeter defender, tbh. He was essentially a guard version of Draymond Green. Team chemistry might help replace Murray's impact, but if the team needs an ace defender on check outside scorers, they needed one before. If they didn't need one before, they don't now. A guy like Huestis was only going to be able to replace so much of what Murray did. Just different roles.

can you elaborate on how you're coming to this conclusion? Murray was a plus on both individual and team defense, surely his loss makes the problem of on-ball and perimeter defense even bigger.... especially since murray was one of the few players who would have allowed spurs to switch on the PnR and not get completely destroyed.

[Chinook]

can you elaborate on how you're coming to this conclusion? Murray was a plus on both individual and team defense, surely his loss makes the problem of on-ball and perimeter defense even bigger.... especially since murray was one of the few players who would have allowed spurs to switch on the PnR and not get completely destroyed.

Murray's analytics put him as a below-average defender individually. His team numbers were great. Impact stats, on/offs and the player pairings -- those gave him high regards. But NBA.com's stats for how he did against guys actually shooting against him -- those were poor. He hung around the middle or the road in the league there. That's not normal for an ace defender, in case you're wondering Green and Leonard both enjoyed years of great results in terms of stopping the man in front of them as well as helping the whole team. I understand that people want to be skeptical of some stats (the numbers said Forbes was great/lucky when guys went at him), but defensive stats are always about taking a suite of numbers and trying to make sense of them. Eye-tests and those analytics suggest Murray's one-on-one D was not anything to write home about.

Neither was Anderson's though. As some folks are keen to remind me, there's a lot more to D than one-on-one play. That's no more true than in in the case of Murray. His loss hurts. His loss combined with picking Anderson over Bertans (another guy whose one-on-one analytics were great, btb) hurts even more. But he wasn't going to check anyone unless that part of his game had developed over the summer. The lack of a legit stopper was going to hurt the team no matter what. They just won't have their ace either. Think of Murray being a safety or MLB in the NFL rather than a cornerback. You wouldn't look for free-agent corners to replace Eric Berry.

[SAGirl]

Think Murray is more impactful than given credit for, but he had his moments where he was ineffective last season. Lonzo is the one that I remember the most but no one expected him to shoot the 3...

[sasaint]

http://e.lvme.me/plmusf5.jpg

:lol NO KIDDING! What I was thinking - but without the visual! :toast