Grades: Spurs vs. Timberwolves - Oct. 17, 2018

[timvp]

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The San Antonio Spurs kicked off the 2018-19 campaign with a 112-108 victory over the Minnesota Timberwolves. The Spurs trailed by two points heading into the fourth quarter but thanks to two timely three-pointers by Davis Bertans and a clutch performance by DeMar DeRozan down the stretch, San Antonio was able to begin their season on the right foot.

LaMarcus Aldridge
https://i.imgur.com/1nluyNF.png
Playing a game-high 42 minutes, LaMarcus Aldridge had his fingerprints all over this game. Offensively, Aldridge was extremely aggressive -- to a fault, in fact. He took a few ill-advised, contested jumpers. However, Aldridge going 7-for-23 from the field wasn't simply a case of taking bad shots, he missed a handful of looks he usually knocks down. His best attribute on offense on opening night was his work on the offensive glass. On defense, I thought Aldridge was really, really good. He not only dominated that boards on that end, he guarded the paint with force and was nimble on his switch-outs on the perimeter. Without Aldridge, the Spurs would have been in big trouble on defense.
Grade: B+
Summary: Aldridge's very good defense and great work on the boards made up for his shooting woes.

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DeMar DeRozan
https://i.imgur.com/ZKxGADZ.png
I was impressed by DeMar DeRozan's first outing in silver and black. Yes, he missed a couple of easy shots and rushed a few other possessions, but DeRozan did what the Spurs needed him to do. Defensively, he was San Antonio's best perimeter defender. While that's a sobering thought considering DeRozan has long been considered one of the worst perimeter defenders in the league, let's give him credit. He was far from great on defense but he competed, stayed in front of his man reasonable well and stayed mentally engaged on that end. On offense, DeRozan was literally the team's only reliable playmaker. He created a number of open shots for his teammates; he would have finished with double the number of assists if his teammates had knocked down open shots. In addition to taking on point guard responsibilities by bringing the ball up the court a number of times, DeRozan was able to produce in halfcourt situations by getting into the lane to either create a good shot, draw contact or kick to a shooter. To cap his Spurs debut, DeRozan lived up to his clutch reputation by scoring San Antonio's final six points by hitting both of his field goal attempts and both of his free throws in the game's final 90 seconds.
Grade: A
Summary: It wasn't DeRozan's cleanest game but he tried hard on defense and came up big on offense when it counted.

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Rudy Gay
https://i.imgur.com/vqYr2we.png
Rudy Gay continued his strong play from the preseason into the regular season. He has looked great on the offensive end -- he's getting good elevation and his touch has been deft. He's bullying smaller defenders and using his athleticism to blow by bigger defenders. Against the Wolves, Gay was also very helpful on the boards. His defense was decent to begin the game but after he hurt his foot, his mobility became extremely limited. He just didn't look the same after coming up hobbling. Let's hope that it's nothing major and Gay is able to quickly bounce back.
Grade: A-
Summary: The Spurs will need offense in order to win games this year and Gay was offense in a bottle tonight.

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Bryn Forbes
https://i.imgur.com/yXVIEAs.png
With Dejounte Murray and Derrick White sidelined, Bryn Forbes is the Spurs starting point guard to begin the season. Game 1 was definitely a learning experience for him. Defensively, he was bad individually. He just couldn't stay in front of Minnesota's guards, particularly Jeff Teague. Other team's point guards are going to continue to feast until Forbes learns how to keep quicker players in front of him. His help-defense was actually pretty good tonight, though. On offense, Forbes hit enough shots to keep the defense honest but he wasn't helping matters much on that end. His passing was sub par as he missed open teammates on a number of occasions. His ball-handling was weak -- so weak, in fact, that DeRozan brought the ball up whenever Forbes got pressure. The Spurs need Forbes to play better but he did just enough this game to keep hope alive that he has the ability to keep San Antonio above water until White gets back.
Grade: C
Summary: Forbes didn't embarrass himself but he also rarely moved the needle much in the positive direction.

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Jakob Poeltl
https://i.imgur.com/FUIlW00.png
Jakob Poeltl got the start at center but only played eight minutes. In those eight minutes, we witnessed what Poeltl brings to the table in a nutshell: very good offensive rebounding, poor defensive rebounding, good passing, too many fouls and an ability to finish at the rim. That was the book on Poeltl heading into the season and we witnessed it all. Early foul trouble had him on the bench less than five minutes into his Spurs career. Does Pop plan to put Poeltl on the DeJuan Blair one-stint-at-the-beginning-of-each-half plan? That looks like a strong possibility, at least to begin the season.
Grade: B+
Summary: Poeltl did what Poeltl does.

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Patty Mills
https://i.imgur.com/gTa4B5z.png
Patty Mills played 30 minutes off the bench but it's difficult to explain why. He was really bad on defense -- clearly the worst on the team. Quick players ran right by him and everyone muscled him out of the way. The Spurs just couldn't find a place to hide him on D. Offensively, he didn't bring much to the table. San Antonio was desperate for ball-handlers and playmakers yet Mills couldn't help in either category. I liked what I saw from Mills in preseason when he was pushing the pace and causing havoc with the bench unit. That tenacity was missing in the season opener.
Grade: D-
Summary: The Spurs and their point guard platoon are going to suffer this season unless Mills plays much, much better.

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Pau Gasol
https://i.imgur.com/oF0jVre.png
Pau Gasol has found a home coming off the bench. Outside of DeRozan, Gasol was the team's best playmaker (as scary as that is to type). His passing was elite, as evident by his game-high six assists. He did very good work on the glass, defended the rim well and was rarely caught out of position. The offense slowed to a halt at times with Gasol out there but the Spurs wouldn't have won without his production.
Grade: B+
Summary: The Spurs leaned on Gasol's talent and he delivered.

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Marco Belinelli
https://i.imgur.com/hP9vIFY.png
The Spurs needed every ounce of life Marco Belinelli injected on opening night. His perpetual motion in halfcourt sets opened up opportunities for himself and others. Belinelli's trigger finger, as it was in the preseason, remains itchy. He's at his best when he's being uber aggressive and that was the case against Minnesota. Defensively, Belinelli was iffy at best -- his poor transition defense had the coaching staff fuming at times. In retrospect, I would have liked to have seen Belinelli play more minutes given what the Spurs got from Mills and even post-injury Gay.
Grade: B+
Summary: Belinelli isn't Ginobili but he's the closest the Spurs have to that.

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Davis Bertans
https://i.imgur.com/ucY2jSF.png
It looked like Pop was hesitant to play Davis Bertans at all to begin the game. By the final buzzer, Bertans was indispensable. In fact, the Latvian played the game's final ten minutes. On offense, Bertans' ability to spread the floor at power forward was very much in focus. He shot with confidence and dropped two huge threes in the fourth quarter. Defensively, Bertans' mobility was helpful since the defense resorted to swarming the strong side of the court in order to get stops. His individual defense was lacking and he didn't help on the glass but the Spurs have to be happy with what they got out of Bertans overall.
Grade: B+
Summary: Bertans hit big shots and did enough on defense to aid the cause.

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Dante Cunningham
https://i.imgur.com/W3QWUCI.png
Yikes. Dante Cunningham had a rough outing in his maiden voyage. During his first stint, Pop had him at small forward and it was a disaster. He got in the way on offense and repeatedly lost his man on defense. Cunningham was slightly better in his second stint in which he played power forward. That said, with this Spurs team needing as much talent as possible on the court at all times, it's difficult to justify giving a hustle player like Cunningham minutes. He simply doesn't do anything well enough -- from what I can tell, at least -- to justify rotational playing time.
Grade: D
Summary: Cunningham played seven minutes too many.

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Pop
https://i.imgur.com/x7B1It7.jpg
Pop realized that Aldridge and DeRozan were going to have to carry huge loads in order for the Spurs to win and he allowed them to do just that. Pop also deserves credit for drawing up the play out of a timeout that led to a momentous three-pointer by Bertans. The defense wasn't great but the coaching staff produced enough smoke and had enough mirrors to help further discombobulate the chemistry-lacking Timberwolves. On the other side of the coin, I thought Mills and Cunningham played too much. A backcourt of Forbes and Mills should be actively avoided and Cunningham at small forward is an experiment that should already be over.
Grade: B
Summary: It wasn't pretty but Pop led the Spurs to yet another win to begin the season. He's now 20-2 as Spurs head coach on opening night.

Looking ahead: Let's hope Gay is healthy as the Spurs head out on the road to face the Trail Blazers in what promises to be a much more difficult test.

[Seventyniner]

Good stuff. :toast

Just happy to get dat W. This team has a long way to go in terms of chemistry, especially on team D.

wtf is up with the lighting on the photos for Poeltl and Bertans, they look like albinos.

[Mugen]

Patty & Bryn as the defensive backcourt the last 4 minutes of the game....Derozan at the 3 (even though he competed at least).....good God :shootme

[tbdog]

Pretty much agree. Just unsure who else Spurs can go to at SF with Gay hurting his foot and DD needing rest.

[Keepin' it real]

82-0 is still in play!

[benfti]

All pretty spot on but I reckon Cunningham was worse than Mills, and Mills was bad except for taking the charge that got Towns fouled out.

[Fusternino]

What's the next move? Sign Blossomgame to a two-way and have him compete with Q-Pon and Dante for minutes as a 3&D specialist at the 3? Cut Q-Pon now and sign Acy and see if he can do that job? This is the most glaring hole on the team outside of the injuries to our backcourt and Gay.

[DAF86]

Wolves, Blazers, Lakers, Pacers, Lakers. That's a pretty tough start to the season.

[MaNu4Tres]

Great write up.

If Derrick and Lonnie can earn the current roles of Patty and Forbes by March..watch out.

[DAF86]

Great write up.

If Derrick and Lonnie can earn the current roles of Patty and Forbes by March..watch out.

You know that will never happen.

[spurraider21]

lonnie looked lost over the summer tbh... white has a chance since bryn is incapable of playing pg

[Fusternino]

Let Forbes play . . . and then use him as a trade asset.

[NASpurs]

Next game might be a rare event in the NBA. Two guys on the same team going for 50 each (Lillard and McCollum).

[Chinook]

Cool. I really enjoyed Pop staggering LMA and DMDR. I think he really wanted to play two of them or Gay at all times. That's probably the best he can do to manage the roster as it stands now. The lack of a three is predictably killing the team. Gay could only do it as well as he did in this game because Wiggins isn't a good shooter. Cun can't get it done. I guess we'll see if Pon gets minutes going forward. The Spurs likely will be looking at cycling players pretty soon. With Gay's injury scares, I think Pop will rest him more going forward, which will mean more minutes for the stars, which means more rest games for them if possible. The 15th-17th spots will be important for the next couple of months until White and Walker return.

Bertans should be the first forward off the bench. I really do like what Gasol brings with Aldridge, but I'm putting Davis in at PF for Poeltl and only bringing Gasol in when Gay sits. They just need more minutes with legit spacing around Aldridge and DeRozan. I like the bench well enough, but they need some structure. Pau is a decent focal point when he plays well, but he's too passive to be the main driver of the second unit. Dude passed up open shots too many times. Beli hasn't met a shot he doesn't like, but having him as your main perimeter creator is a recipe for an awful stint. Without White, Mills isn't doing much either. Playing one or two of the top guys with the unit will help, but asking all three of them to have top impacts every game (they averaged 22 points each) just won't work. I'd still look into a trade that would allow Rudy to move to the bench again.

I still think the defense will be better. The Wolves seemed to have decent chemistry on the court outside of Towns. Holding them down enough for a win despite all of the misses and TOs was a nice accomplishment. They played a number of possessions of lock-down D. Minny actually shot worse in this game than they did in last year's season opener. They are likely going to foul more than we're used to, and they simply aren't going to be as good at stopping teams from scoring, but a lot of their higher-than-expected points-allowed totals are going to be due to the faster pace they'll play at this season. Pop had planned to run with Murray, but even with the injury, DeRozan and Forbes will continue to push the ball down the floor. The new rule on offensive rebounds will also add a couple of possessions to every game. I don't expect a full track meet, but I do expect to see them score over 100 points in more games than last year.

[NASpurs]

Let Forbes play . . . and then use him as a trade asset.

Dont you have to actually show something positive to be considered an asset?

[Fusternino]

Dont you have to actually show something positive to be considered an asset?

No, you only need Pop to praise you (true or not) after every game as something positive.

[Fusternino]

Cool. I really enjoyed Pop staggering LMA and DMDR. I think he really wanted to play two of them or Gay at all times. That's probably the best he can do to manage the roster as it stands now. The lack of a three is predictably killing the team. Gay could only do it as well as he did in this game because Wiggins isn't a good shooter. Cun can't get it done. I guess we'll see if Pon gets minutes going forward. The Spurs likely will be looking at cycling players pretty soon. With Gay's injury scares, I think Pop will rest him more going forward, which will mean more minutes for the stars, which means more rest games for them if possible. The 15th-17th spots will be important for the next couple of months until White and Walker return.

Bertans should be the first forward off the bench. I really do like what Gasol brings with Aldridge, but I'm putting Davis in at PF for Poeltl and only bringing Gasol in when Gay sits. They just need more minutes with legit spacing around Aldridge and DeRozan. I like the bench well enough, but they need some structure. Pau is a decent focal point when he plays well, but he's too passive to be the main driver of the second unit. Dude passed up open shots too many times. Beli hasn't met a shot he doesn't like, but having him as your main perimeter creator is a recipe for an awful stint. Without White, Mills isn't doing much either. Playing one or two of the top guys with the unit will help, but asking all three of them to have top impacts every game (they averaged 22 points each) just won't work. I'd still look into a trade that would allow Rudy to move to the bench again.

I still think the defense will be better. The Wolves seemed to have decent chemistry on the court outside of Towns. Holding them down enough for a win despite all of the misses and TOs was a nice accomplishment. They played a number of possessions of lock-down D. Minny actually shot worse in this game than they did in last year's season opener. They are likely going to foul more than we're used to, and they simply aren't going to be as good at stopping teams from scoring, but a lot of their higher-than-expected points-allowed totals are going to be due to the faster pace they'll play at this season. Pop had planned to run with Murray, but even with the injury, DeRozan and Forbes will continue to push the ball down the floor. The new rule on offensive rebounds will also add a couple of possessions to every game. I don't expect a full track meet, but I do expect to see them score over 100 points in more games than last year.

Don't worry . . . we didn't even bother looking at Quincy Acy for a spot and didn't even offer Blossomgame a two-way. We totally went with the best options in Dante and Q-Pon for 3&D SF's.

[Pavlov]

Acy is cancer. Think they'd rather wait for Huestis.

[DAF86]

BTW, he got away with it, but there's no reason to have both Mills and Forbes out there for defensive purposes at the end of games.

[Dingle Barry]

BTW, he got away with it, but there's no reason to have both Mills and Forbes out there for defensive purposes at the end of games.

Or offensive purposes.

[phxspurfan]

Was at the game. On the defensive smoke and mirrors bit, I saw one play where Minny clearly looked to get Butler going against DeRozan (they were force feeding Butler a lot). Butler cut to the top of the key and DeRozan followed him. But as soon as Butler caught it and went iso, the Spurs switched to a zone look and Butler drove into a swarm with DeRozan hanging back on the opposite side of the court. Genius. Then on the next possession, Butler ran right to the rim before the zone could set up and got a layup.

This seemed like it could happen a lot with the defense this year. Good coaching schemes, but the players lack of talent on the defensive end (especially the perimeter players) could result in a ton of easy baskets for the opposing team.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Man, this team is not very deep. I loved the energy and the heart displayed though. DeRozan and Aldridge are our team, by and large; proven all-star caliber players who need to be out there 35+ minutes if the team has a chance of winning. You then have one (and only one) 20-30 minute 2nd tier starter, Rudy Gay, who needs to be effective every game for the Spurs to win, but is a cut below LMA and DD. You then have 4 guys that are situational players, Gasol, Belli, Bertans and Mills, that I’d say are 8 to 20 minute players, who, depending on matchups, will have a role of varying significance from game to game. Then there’s some young talent that might blossom into more in Poetl, White and Walker, that should get minutes, but on a better team wouldn't be depended on to provide much. Their minutes would be an investment in grooming them for the future. Forbes deserves the occasional plug as that 12th man in situations where you’re looking for that “microwave” to provide a couple of quick baskets, but then go right back to the bench. And that’s it. No other player on the roster should see the floor. Sucks about Murray...we need him.

240 minutes is tough to cover with that group. Still excited to see us over-achieve this year!!

As I said in a different thread, if Pop coaches this group to the playoffs he should get COY and our best players should get MVP votes.


Awesome write-up and spot on! :tu

[phxspurfan]

Btw, game 1 of opposing backcourts going for 40. In this case, 50 actually. Some here were quick to say that won’t happen

[8FOR!3]

What's the next move? Sign Blossomgame to a two-way and have him compete with Q-Pon and Dante for minutes as a 3&D specialist at the 3? Cut Q-Pon now and sign Acy and see if he can do that job? This is the most glaring hole on the team outside of the injuries to our backcourt and Gay.

I would certainly rather have Blossomgame out there, but I think Pop's trying to go with a veteran just because there are so many new guys on the team (even though a lot of them are veteran players.) I think once White and Walker are back there won't be much extra rotational minutes to give so Pop's probably just trying guys out meanwhile to see if anything sticks and we're probably thinking too much into it.

[Hoops Czar]

Btw, game 1 of opposing backcourts going for 40. In this case, 50 actually. Some here were quick to say that won’t happen Chinook will be right you. Give him time to roll out of bed.

[sananspursfan21]

I’m holding on to some hope that there’s something about Cunningham that the coaching staff knows and we just don’t see it.

[ceperez]

Gay has become ridiculously efficient. His play in the offensive end has been simplified a lot and he's benefiting from it.

[superbigtime]

Felt lucky to win. Going to be a rough year with this squad. So many fringe players. Aldridge and DD our only real reliables. Concerned about minute loading 33 yo LMA.

[Chinook]

Btw, game 1 of opposing backcourts going for 40. In this case, 50 actually. Some here were quick to say that won’t happen


Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) will be right you. Give him time to roll out of bed.

I love how some folks are so immature that they look for every little victory, even in the wider context of the Spurs winning a game against a playoff team. Towns being in foul trouble forced more touches into Teague. Had KAT been healthy, the starting back court would have scored lower.

btb, trying to add in the entire back court into the 40 club would be dumb. That's assuming that four or more players combining for 40 points would be a bad thing. Such a combination happened all the time last year. Last night, the entire Wolves guard team scored 55 points on 69 possessions. That's horrible, and not at all a sign that the Spurs will be particularly unable to win games offensively.

[stu scotts eye]

This team really needs some explosive, momentum type players that will bring energy off the bench. That old school Ginobili, a spurt of Jonathan Simmons... that's why I cannot wait till Lonnie gets back.

We need him and his aggressive play, more than anything else. He may not be as fundamentally sound on D as Pop nornally likes, but he his juice and athleticism over weights that.

[SAGirl]

Thanks for the grades and review. I missed the 4th Q and parts of the 3rd and when I went to bed it was a cliffhanger of a game with Mills and Forbes gettting lit up, coupled with Lamarcus being off.

Glad to discover the team pulled it out. Kudos to Demar who made some clutch plays.

Too bad Poltl played only 8 minutes bc the team misses his minutes. Lamarcus isn’t going to last long at 42 minutes per game.

Overall glad to get this win though.

:flag::flag:

[Immortal Spur]

I wonder what it’d cost to get Pat Beverly. A player like him would be perfect for the time being...

im sure he’d be expendable with the guards they have there.

[Immortal Spur]

So the soonest QPon and Dante can be traded is December 15. Combined they have close to 5 million on non guaranteed contracts. So they can be moved and cut easily. But what could the Spurs add to sweeten the pot. I don’t want to touch picks. Maybe Militinov?

anyways pat bev is making 5 mill w 1 year left on his contract...

im fairly certain that’s why spurs still have q and Dante. No attachments and can be moved.

[SAGirl]

So the soonest QPon and Dante can be traded is December 15. Combined they have close to 5 million on non guaranteed contracts. So they can be moved and cut easily. But what could the Spurs add to sweeten the pot. I don’t want to touch picks. Maybe Militinov?

anyways pat bev is making 5 mill w 1 year left on his contract...

im fairly certain that’s why spurs still have q and Dante. No attachments and can be moved.
Think if you move those two you need to get back a wing. Spurs need one right now anyways and if Rudy needs to take some games off bc of some nags, it will be even more evident.

[Immortal Spur]

Think if you move those two you need to get back a wing. Spurs need one right now anyways and if Rudy needs to take some games off bc of some nags, it will be even more evident.
Well white and Walker would theoretically be back

[Chinook]

So the soonest QPon and Dante can be traded is December 15. Combined they have close to 5 million on non guaranteed contracts. So they can be moved and cut easily. But what could the Spurs add to sweeten the pot. I don’t want to touch picks. Maybe Militinov?

anyways pat bev is making 5 mill w 1 year left on his contract...

im fairly certain that’s why spurs still have q and Dante. No attachments and can be moved.

1) Cun's deal is almost certainly guaranteed 2) The non-guaranteed portion of contracts doesn't factor into trades.

I certainly think PATFO could look to use those contracts to find a real rotation piece. They're going to have to be willing to give up future value to get someone, though. Simply put, the amount of money they'd be able to take back means there really isn't a bad contract in that way that isn't a BAAAAD contract.

[emanueldavidginobili]

I just hope we can bring the same heart and intensity on the road. I feel like the Spurs are going to struggle immensely on the road.

[venitian navigator]

thanks for the grades...very well made, as always. then lack of a point guard, expecialy on defense, was clear...we won the game but our weakness won't give us the chance to win many games...expecially if we have to rely on lma and ddr for so much time.
I thought Poeltl was playing well, so i don't understand why so little yime for him...but is defense at the point and on the wings that is the main problem...hope at least White and Walker come back soon...

[SAGirl]

Well white and Walker would theoretically be back
White needs to play PG. you’d still have Forbes/Mills and an undersized perimeter crew.
Walker can hopefully help them on the wing though. I think they need some PG depth from r now but some wing depth all season.

I don’t believe Huestis will help bc he’s not finishing his rehab until late Dec.

[Chinook]

I'd start Walker at PG now it he were healthy. He doesn't have the greatest handles, but he can do as well as Bryn will on that end while adding size and speed to the back court.

[Immortal Spur]

1) Cun's deal is almost certainly guaranteed 2) The non-guaranteed portion of contracts doesn't factor into trades.

I certainly think PATFO could look to use those contracts to find a real rotation piece. They're going to have to be willing to give up future value to get someone, though. Simply put, the amount of money they'd be able to take back means there really isn't a bad contract in that way that isn't a BAAAAD contract.
Just some hair brain scheme I cooked up at work. Didn’t have time to fact check

[coachmac87]

I'd start Walker at PG now it he were healthy. He doesn't have the greatest handles, but he can do as well as Bryn will on that end while adding size and speed to the back court.

DeRozan at the 1 and Walker off the ball at the two..

DeRozan playmaking ability is really underrated and him not being a catch and shoot guy hurts his value as a true 2 in this system..

Walker isn’t the best option as a catch and shoot guy like a Mills, Forbes or White but his athleticism along with defensive potential makes him intriguing in SL.

Walker can be like Murray and bring things same to the table...along with just being a better shooter

[superbigtime]

Mills and Forbes. Gonna be hard to choke that down all year!

[SpursDynasty85]

More confirmation Forbes is outplaying Mills and easily outplays his low contract. Hopefully both play better soon though. Poeltl getting B+ seems weird when he cant even stay on the floor. Hoping Gay is ok.

[Seventyniner]

December 15 will be an interesting time. By then the Spurs can trade some of the new signings and should have some idea of what White and Walker will bring cause they will have been back for a week or two by then.

[TheGreatYacht]

I wonder what it’d cost to get Pat Beverly. A player like him would be perfect for the time being...

im sure he’d be expendable with the guards they have there.
He's fucking washed. Went 0-8 last night. You really need to watch the other 29 teams bklynspursfan

[bklynspursfan]

He's fucking washed. Went 0-8 last night. You really need to watch the other 29 teams bklynspursfan (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=25024)

You rang, Melo?

[kobyz]

So the soonest QPon and Dante can be traded is December 15. Combined they have close to 5 million on non guaranteed contracts. So they can be moved and cut easily. But what could the Spurs add to sweeten the pot. I don’t want to touch picks. Maybe Militinov?

anyways pat bev is making 5 mill w 1 year left on his contract...

im fairly certain that’s why spurs still have q and Dante. No attachments and can be moved.

Milotinuv is surely expendable now with jacov here

[BackHome]

Not really cause you want to replace Gasol next year

[phxspurfan]

I love how some folks are so immature that they look for every little victory, even in the wider context of the Spurs winning a game against a playoff team. Towns being in foul trouble forced more touches into Teague. Had KAT been healthy, the starting back court would have scored lower.

btb, trying to add in the entire back court into the 40 club would be dumb. That's assuming that four or more players combining for 40 points would be a bad thing. Such a combination happened all the time last year. Last night, the entire Wolves guard team scored 55 points on 69 possessions. That's horrible, and not at all a sign that the Spurs will be particularly unable to win games offensively.

2 players not all of the guards. I submit that the majority of games where we start Forbes/Mills at PG will result in us giving up at least 40 to the other team's starting backcourt. We'll see if it comes true but it certainly did yesterday. Just look at the stat line posted by OP.

[TimmyBuckets]

I wonder what it’d cost to get Pat Beverly. A player like him would be perfect for the time being...

im sure he’d be expendable with the guards they have there.

Ya Pat would be perfect, especially on Spurs.

[Cry Havoc]

:tu Nice work as usual.

Would be nice to see a rotation of game grades this year.

In retrospect I was admittedly a little harsh on Pau cause I saw him get blown by a couple of times. :lol

[Chris]

Good stuff Timvp :tu

Summary of Pop post Duncan: played Mills too much :lol

[Chinook]

2 players not all of the guards. I submit that the majority of games where we start Forbes/Mills at PG will result in us giving up at least 40 to the other team's starting backcourt. We'll see if it comes true but it certainly did yesterday. Just look at the stat line posted by OP.

Acting as if the majority of the league has two All-Stars in their back court is absurd. And if Mills/Forbes were really sieves, the bench guards should have been better. It's not like Beli is some defensive juggernaut himself. You don't have to convince me that Mills and Forbes are steps down from Murray, White and hopefully Walker. But the Spurs weathered a decent storm and came out with a win. Last year, they had hell stopping Shabazz fucking Muhammad from dominating them on the block, and that was with Murray, Green and Anderson.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

One thing I did like last night was seeing Pop run some plays for Bertans that they used to run for Green. Unlike Green, these last few years though, Bertans was hitting his shots. I hope that continues.

[Immortal Spur]

He's fucking washed. Went 0-8 last night. You really need to watch the other 29 teams bklynspursfan (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=25024)
Unlike you I have a life bro. Can’t just watch basketball all day in my parents basement <3

[kobyz]

Not really cause you want to replace Gasol next year

no point to keep both yacov and milotinuv as both same garbage man type player...

[FkLA]

wtf is up with the lighting on the photos for Poeltl and Bertans, they look like albinos.

Theyre just white af brah.

[Stabula]

Everyone on this board hates on Forbes way too much. He obviously has defensive limitations but he shot with confidence and opposing teams have to respect his shooting and he's definitely better than Patty.

[Cry Havoc]

One thing I did like last night was seeing Pop run some plays for Bertans that they used to run for Green. Unlike Green, these last few years though, Bertans was hitting his shots. I hope that continues.

Green last year reminded me a bit of Richard Jefferson on offense.

Seems like he misses EVERY shot, but when you look at his stats they're pretty good.

Still think he's going to be a fantastic player in Toronto.

[SpursDynasty85]

If Cunningham still struggling Metu should play more. Guy is athletic and has decent playmaking skills. Hope to see him next. He would help out our front court perimeter defense tremendously. He is more mobile than Gay and Bertans right now.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

I guess grades were based on expectations for each player? Bc having Poetle the same grade as LMA is ridiculous otherwise.
Also pat Beverley is straight trash. He never really recovered after his injuries.

[SpursDynasty85]

I guess grades were based on expectations for each player? Bc having Poetle the same grade as LMA is ridiculous otherwise.
Also pat Beverley is straight trash. He never really recovered after his injuries.

Yes grades are according to expectations. Poeltl for fouling sp much a starter played 8 minutes is a bit of a head scratcher but he did some good things while on the floor.

[TheGreatYacht]

Spurs should get rid of the useless scrubs like Cunningham, Pondexter, and Eubanks. They're just taking roster spots that could go to guys like Briante Weber, Troy Williams, and Trevor Booker.

[ceperez]

If Cunningham still struggling Metu should play more. Guy is athletic and has decent playmaking skills. Hope to see him next. He would help out our front court perimeter defense tremendously. He is more mobile than Gay and Bertans right now.

PATFO will need to realize that Cunningham has feet of lead. He also doesn't seem to be no bigger than a 6'6" guard.

I'm all for sinking or swimming with Metu. Spurs already lost 3 1st round draft picks, might as well roll the dice and give a guy with talent some exposure. Besides Cunningham is a one year rental. Either he delivers or he gets benched. So far he was looking really lost and unathletic.

Also, don't forget, Metu also has 3 point range. I don't think its any worse than Cunningham.

[SAGirl]

Everyone on this board hates on Forbes way too much. He obviously has defensive limitations but he shot with confidence and opposing teams have to respect his shooting and he's definitely better than Patty.
I backed off on the hate personally. He’s flawed and easy to pick on. Pop puts him in tough situations at times and it’s usually bc someone else is injured etc.

He is playing better than last season and the team needs him. Not my favorite player at all, I wished Murray had not gotten injured to begin with but c’est la vie. It’s going to be a long season at this rate of trolling with peeps. They aren’t even saving the trolling for when the team goes on a few losses ...

[SAGirl]

I guess grades were based on expectations for each player? Bc having Poetle the same grade as LMA is ridiculous otherwise.
Also pat Beverley is straight trash. He never really recovered after his injuries.
Good point. I don’t know how Poltl was a B with his fouling and inability to play more than 7 minutes or so.

[SAGirl]

Good stuff Timvp :tu

Summary of Pop post Duncan: played Mills too much :lol
So true.

[Seventyniner]

I backed off on the hate personally. He’s flawed and easy to pick on. Pop puts him in tough situations at times and it’s usually bc someone else is injured etc.

He is playing better than last season and the team needs him. Not my favorite player at all, I wished Murray had not gotten injured to begin with but c’est la vie. It’s going to be a long season at this rate of trolling with peeps. They aren’t even saving the trolling for when the team goes on a few losses ...

Forbes might end up being this team's version of Bonner. Not bad when he's 4th or 5th in the guard rotation (big rotation for Bonner), but not good at all when he's asked to be the 2nd or 3rd.

If Pop is just using him as a minutes sponge until White and Walker come back then it's fine. But we all know that isn't the case. PATFO didn't give Forbes that contract to have him be the 5th guard.

[DAF86]

I'd start Walker at PG now it he were healthy. He doesn't have the greatest handles, but he can do as well as Bryn will on that end while adding size and speed to the back court.

Walker's jumper isn't reliable enough yet to put him out there as an off-ball threat next to DeRozan and Aldridge (specially alongside a non-shooter like Poeltl and another hit and miss three point shooter like Gay).

Murray wasn't a great fit either, tbh. We might actually be benefiting on offense because of his absence.

Without a doubt the best fit at PG, on this roster, is White. His injury hurt the most.

[Hoops Czar]

I love how some folks are so immature that they look for every little victory, even in the wider context of the Spurs winning a game against a playoff team. Towns being in foul trouble forced more touches into Teague. Had KAT been healthy, the starting back court would have scored lower.

btb, trying to add in the entire back court into the 40 club would be dumb. That's assuming that four or more players combining for 40 points would be a bad thing. Such a combination happened all the time last year. Last night, the entire Wolves guard team scored 55 points on 69 possessions. That's horrible, and not at all a sign that the Spurs will be particularly unable to win games offensively.

Good thing the T-pups have Jones and Rose, yes that Rose on the roster. It remains to be seen if Minnesota will be a playoff team but let's see how well the Flaccid backcourt of Mills asnd Forbes handles Lillard and McCollum on Saturday. That should be fun.

[Cry Havoc]

Murray wasn't a great fit either, tbh. We might actually be benefiting on offense because of his absence.

Oof. I really don't know if I agree with this. If for no other reason than the fact that we lack depth now.

Also don't forget that defense begets offense. Murray's ability to disrupt could lead to a lot of easy transitions.

And that's all discounting the better jumper he's purported to have.

[Gagnrath]

Btw, game 1 of opposing backcourts going for 40. In this case, 50 actually. Some here were quick to say that won’t happen

Between Murray a proven above average perimeter defender, White who looked to be a decent perimeter defender last year, and Walker a rookie who has the tools to be a decent defender; All going down. That made my whole we should be ok, on perimeter defense after trading kawhi and green sort of void. I didn't really think we would be great on defense even with them just passible, but those injuries took any the defense should be ok predictions and laughed.

[MI21]

BTW, he got away with it, but there's no reason to have both Mills and Forbes out there for defensive purposes at the end of games.

I love Pop but shit like this has infuriated me for years. Just make the obvious adjustments in these situation.

[r0drig0lac]

I love Pop but shit like this has infuriated me for years. Just make the obvious adjustments in these situation.

he did not against the clippers (2015) or thunder (2016), he will not do in this situation

[MultiTroll]

nice writeup.
Unable to watch game.

Q. How in the hell was MN unable to score at will the last 4 minutes with Patty n Bryn as Pops wall defense? :spin

[Laughing Gravy]

Wow, Bertans is a goddam bobblehead in that pic lol.

[Chinook]

Good thing the T-pups have Jones and Rose, yes that Rose on the roster. It remains to be seen if Minnesota will be a playoff team but let's see how well the Flaccid backcourt of Mills asnd Forbes handles Lillard and McCollum on Saturday. That should be fun.

Stick to a point. Jones and Rose are the backups Lillard and McCollum are Portland's starters. Mills and Forbes are not the team's starting back court. Constantly acting like they are is dumb.

[DAF86]

Looking at some scoreboards around the league, our defense doesn't look that bad, tbh.

[skookumchuck]

Q. How in the hell was MN unable to score at will the last 4 minutes with Patty n Bryn as Pops wall defense? :spin

Aldridge&Bertans

[Hoops Czar]

Stick to a point. Jones and Rose are the backups Lillard and McCollum are Portland's starters. Mills and Forbes are not the team's starting back court. Constantly acting like they are is dumb.
The point was you saying opponent backcourts wouldn't light up the Spurs for 40+ on a consistent basis. Rose and Jones play in the backcourt. And it doesn't matter if Paddy and Forbes are starting, coming off the bench or CLOSING, they're playing in the backcourt TOGETHER and getting lit up. Forbes on Lillard is going to be a sight to behold.

[ragas]

Good point. I don’t know how Poltl was a B with his fouling and inability to play more than 7 minutes or so.

Take a look at the advanced and hustle stats, then you get an idea.

[tmtcsc]

If anyone has ever had the chance to interact with Patty Mills or had their kids around him, you know the guy is a pretty cool human being. However, I'd argue that he has not been the same player since 2014's championship year. I've not paid as much attention to his defense but his offense has been terrible. He's not a good ball handler, looks uncomfortable dribbling and his shot isn't what it used to be. He definitely isn't living up to his contract and most of his contributions to the team are coming when he's not on the court.

[ceperez]

If anyone has ever had the chance to interact with Patty Mills or had their kids around him, you know the guy is a pretty cool human being. However, I'd argue that he has not been the same player since 2014's championship year. I've not paid as much attention to his defense but his offense has been terrible. He's not a good ball handler, looks uncomfortable dribbling and his shot isn't what it used to be. He definitely isn't living up to his contract and most of his contributions to the team are coming when he's not on the court.

He's a good locker room guy. His talent is only at the level of a second team player and was fine when Parker was still around. He can't compete as a starter. I would rather have Forbes in his place as a starter. At least Forbes is a little bit taller than Mills. Beggars can't be choosers.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

If anyone has ever had the chance to interact with Patty Mills or had their kids around him, you know the guy is a pretty cool human being. However, I'd argue that he has not been the same player since 2014's championship year. I've not paid as much attention to his defense but his offense has been terrible. He's not a good ball handler, looks uncomfortable dribbling and his shot isn't what it used to be. He definitely isn't living up to his contract and most of his contributions to the team are coming when he's not on the court.

I thought the same thing about Green after his paycheck contract. Both guys took a step back after getting paid. Both have dealt with some injuries, but you can tell some of the fire was gone after '14.

[SpurSpike]

If anyone has ever had the chance to interact with Patty Mills or had their kids around him, you know the guy is a pretty cool human being. However, I'd argue that he has not been the same player since 2014's championship year. I've not paid as much attention to his defense but his offense has been terrible. He's not a good ball handler, looks uncomfortable dribbling and his shot isn't what it used to be. He definitely isn't living up to his contract and most of his contributions to the team are coming when he's not on the court.

He is enjoying his money. He is at a time in his life where he has already won a championship and got fat paid. He is coasting now, didn't seem to put much work in during the summer just pics of him vacationing on instagram, no workouts. If he is getting paid for culture its got to be the whole "life is bigger than basketball" culture that pop sometimes preaches...

[Coach X]

I'd start Walker at PG now if he were healthy. He doesn't have the greatest handles, but he can do as well as Bryn will on that end while adding size and speed to the back court.
Wouldn't you trust the more mature White as starting PG? We all can notice the great impact a year into the system had on D White, the same thing will happen with Walker. Remember how White didn't look the player he is now on his first games with the Spurs. The same thing could happen to Walker, he is even younger.

Given the circumstances, I'd play Walker in the second unit sharing the backcourt with Mills, using Forbes to sub them if they struggle. I think Walker position is still undetermined so playing next to Mills would help him to define his game into the system. He's way more athletic and talented than Patty but needs time to start going up the ladder and playing surrounded by smart veterans (Gasol, Belinelli, etc.) would help him to develop his NBA game.


Regarding Forbes, we all haters (I'm in) have to admit the boy has worked and improved this summer. He's not a good player but at least his presence on the court has stopped hurting the team too much. Continues to be a defensive liability, but not 100% of times and looks more engaged. In offense, he's more confident and is making his shots at least. Obviously, Forbes is not an NBA starting player and no way a point guard, but there is no reason for not giving him some minutes at the moment. Maybe these weeks give him some value that can be used by the franchise on a trade... in our dreams. I'm afraid PATFO is not trading Forbes.

The latest updates say Derrick White could be out just for two more weeks. I think we can pull up home wins vs Pacers, Lakers and Mavs and win one of the three road games in Portland, Lakers and Phoenix. That would put the Spurs 5-2 on the standings. Let's not be that optimistic and say 4-3 before a theoretical White return on a home game vs the Pelicans on Nov 4th. I'd consider this a good start of the season keeping in mind the schedule, the injuries and the adaptation stage where our new roster is.

Once again, I'd like to say Gay coming from the bench as 6th man would make more sense to me. Moreover, starting Cunningham or Bertans would give these two players a better chance to make a positive contribution to the team, whereas them playing in the second unit won't allow them to have a significative impact on the game. Rudy, leading the second unit, would have the usage he needs and the bench needs to activate the passing game. Also, he won't be that exposed in the defensive end.

[ceperez]

He is enjoying his money. He is at a time in his life where he has already won a championship and got fat paid. He is coasting now, didn't seem to put much work in during the summer just pics of him vacationing on instagram, no workouts. If he is getting paid for culture its got to be the whole "life is bigger than basketball" culture that pop sometimes preaches...

Let's be honest about effort, perhaps Mills doesn't make enough effort on the court. But he definitely is the one guy on the entire team that makes an big amount of effort on the bench and outside of the games. That is why he's part of the team.

Kawhi was the complete reverse. Made no effort in forming any relationship with any player on team. Made no effort outside of the games.

Fortunately, you can see Demar Derozan to be an entirely different person. He cares about his team mates. It showed in spades with the last win.

Spurs 2014 championship team cared about each other. That's what you need when you have LIMITED TALENT!

[Chinook]

Wouldn't you trust the more mature White as starting PG?

White's not healthy. If we're assuming everyone is healthy, I'm starting Murray, and Walker is in the d-league. But I'd totally start Walker over Forbes right now. At worst, I'd give him the Poeltl treatment where he'd get a handful of minutes each half with the starters. Outside of a championship run, the best thing that can happen from this season is that Walker develops into a legit starting option. As to a scenario where Walker and White are healthy, that's a difficult choice. I don't think Derrick has a higher upside with the starters, but he does fit them better and has a higher floor. I still want an actual PG on the second unit, though, and breaking up a potential Forbes/Mills pairing would encourage me to keep Derrick down there.

I don't think it makes sense to start Cunningham. He just hasn't shown enough. He's fine enough as injury filler, but I'm not starting with with his lack of size and agility to play either forward position well.

[Chinook]

The point was you saying opponent backcourts wouldn't light up the Spurs for 40+ on a consistent basis. Rose and Jones play in the backcourt. And it doesn't matter if Paddy and Forbes are starting, coming off the bench or CLOSING, they're playing in the backcourt TOGETHER and getting lit up. Forbes on Lillard is going to be a sight to behold.

There's no shame in giving up 40 points from four players in the back court. That would average out to 100 points a game, which would be very good D, given the pace of the new offense. The Spurs did that all the time last year despite having an elite defense. Hell, the Spurs gave up 60 to Miami (just from Dragic, Johnson and Waiters too) in the fourth game of the season last year, and people came in bitching about their defense without Leonard. You were likely among them.

Rose and Jones either count or they don't. If they do, then the Spurs actually played pretty good defense in the back court last game (the guards as a whole were really inefficient). If it's just about starters, then framing this is Lillard and McCollum against Mills and Forbes is dishonest. In reality, the Spurs don't need to worry about whether Lillard or McCollum score 40 or not. They need to worry about blunting the opposing offense enough to win the game. They can do that even with Forbes and Mills being in the rotation, though it's not as easy as it would have been with White and Murray. They need to help each other on D and rotate to guys on the perimeter. Stopping someone like Stauskas from knocking down so many threes is a much bigger part of the game plan than what Lillard or McCollum do, provided neither has a 60-point game or whatever.

[Coach X]

White's not healthy. If we're assuming everyone is healthy, I'm starting Murray, and Walker is in the d-league. But I'd totally start Walker over Forbes right now. At worst, I'd give him the Poeltl treatment where he'd get a handful of minutes each half with the starters. Outside of a championship run, the best thing that can happen from this season is that Walker develops into a legit starting option. Agree here. I wrote my post based on the most probable scenario this regular seaso: Murray out and White and Walker available from December.



As to a scenario where Walker and White are healthy, that's a difficult choice. I don't think Derrick has a higher upside with the starters, but he does fit them better and has a higher floor. I still want an actual PG on the second unit, though, and breaking up a potential Forbes/Mills pairing would encourage me to keep Derrick down there.
In the long term, I'd agree. Walker is more talented than White but rawer at the moment and not a PG yet. Speaking only about the current season, I'd say White has also a higher ceiling than Walker with the first unit. Thinking about Lonnie's progression, what would be a better scenario for him? running the team as starting PG or coming from the bench? I believe less pressure would be better for him at this initial stage of his development for the same reason we agree it would be better for him to play a lot with the Toros rather than being a third-string player in the NBA team. And I won't do the following, but considering how PATFO protects his young projects, I'd say Walker will play mainly in Austin this season as long as White plays the starting PG (unless more injuries come up and Walker's small contribution was key for the team to make the playoffs).

Yeah, the Forbes+Mills backcourt is totally unsustainable; no question. Nevertheless, we all know we will watch it too many times. My hope is that this just happens in games where it doesn't really affect, like a 20pt home win against Sacramento or a visit to the Oracle Arena.

[DAF86]

White's not healthy. If we're assuming everyone is healthy, I'm starting Murray, and Walker is in the d-league. But I'd totally start Walker over Forbes right now. At worst, I'd give him the Poeltl treatment where he'd get a handful of minutes each half with the starters. Outside of a championship run, the best thing that can happen from this season is that Walker develops into a legit starting option. As to a scenario where Walker and White are healthy, that's a difficult choice. I don't think Derrick has a higher upside with the starters, but he does fit them better and has a higher floor. I still want an actual PG on the second unit, though, and breaking up a potential Forbes/Mills pairing would encourage me to keep Derrick down there.

I don't think it makes sense to start Cunningham. He just hasn't shown enough. He's fine enough as injury filler, but I'm not starting with with his lack of size and agility to play either forward position well.

Neither is Walker.

[SAGirl]

Neither is Walker.

True... and since the Spurs media tends to get mixed up and both guys got injured right after the other, it's not even clear when they are really expected, though it appears that both could be back sooner than initially projected. I last saw projections on White for 2-4 weeks recovery time, so it's really possible White is back sooner anyways. Beyond that, before the injuries, White was projected to play regardless of Murray's minutes and he got the start as soon as Murray got injured. I hope Walker starts getting opportunities when he's ready to play, but I do expect Pop to go back to White as soon as he can play.

Then it's going to be a matter of whose bench minutes Walker takes? Bryn Forbes? Mills? At least cunningham's...

[Chinook]

Neither is Walker.

Read the exchange again and come back.

[MannyIsGod]

I can't argue with your analysis for Forbes but what is sad is that I thought he was decent for his standards. Man, for at least the first two months it is going to be rough watching him and Patty with no one better around.

[MannyIsGod]

Read the exchange again and come back.

I read it and it seems silly to say that White isn't healthy when Walker isn't either. Assuming both White and Walker come back at about the same time, I'm betting White gets minutes first. I'd be shocked if Walker is a consistent starter at any point this year. I think White should be given a shot first, assuming health, ofc.

They should both come back at about the same time, so we'll see what happens. In any event, I just want more backcourt depth so that we have alternatives.

[Chinook]

I read it and it seems silly to say that White isn't healthy when Walker isn't either. Assuming both White and Walker come back at about the same time, I'm betting White gets minutes first. I'd be shocked if Walker is a consistent starter at any point this year. I think White should be given a shot first, assuming health, ofc.

They should both come back at about the same time, so we'll see what happens. In any event, I just want more backcourt depth so that we have alternatives.

You didn't read it. The whole thing is based off a comment I made about starting Walker if he were healthy. It was about starting him with Forbes and Mills as the alternatives, not about starting him when everyone is healthy. So bringing up White doesn't make sense. It would be like bringing up Murray. Walker shouldn't be in the plans now until he shows he's back and can stay back.

[MannyIsGod]

You didn't read it. The whole thing is based off a comment I made about starting Walker if he were healthy. It was about starting him with Forbes and Mills as the alternatives, not about starting him when everyone is healthy. So bringing up White doesn't make sense. It would be like bringing up Murray. Walker shouldn't be in the plans now until he shows he's back and can stay back.

I did read it. It does make sense since both White and Walker are expected to come back at the same time and Murray is not. White and Walker are going to both be back this season which is why it makes perfect sense to bring one up with the other if we're considering playing one when healthy. Everyone who isn't being stubborn can see that logic, but carry on if you want.

[Chinook]

I did read it. It does make sense since both White and Walker are expected to come back at the same time and Murray is not. White and Walker are going to both be back this season which is why it makes perfect sense to bring one up with the other if we're considering playing one when healthy. Everyone who isn't being stubborn can see that logic, but carry on if you want.

Bruh, don't go around telling other people what they meant. I am not talking about in a few weeks. I'm talking about right now. White isn't healthy right now. Walker isn't either. If he were healthy, White still wouldn't not be. So no, it doesn't make sense to bring up White. If we are waiving a magic wand and making folks better, we may as well do so for Murray as well. It's important, because when Walker is healthy, I do NOT want him to start, with White or without White, because Lonnie is a health risk. Walker needs to spend quite a bit of time reestablishing himself in Austin. I love Lonnie's potential, but knee injuries are scary, and they can't afford to rush him back or put too big of a load on him. Best case for me would be giving him NBA minutes starting in like February, with him hopefully having a solid rotation spot by the end of the season.

So no, talking about White doesn't apply here. The previous poster thought it did, and I clarified. You, already knowing this, decided to jump in and say "Well, I thought it was this, so obviously you must have meant this." I didn't. You just thought wrong. Not being stubborn would mean admitting you just read it wrong, not being so bullish about your opinion that you decided to explain other people's points to them.

[MannyIsGod]

You seem to think conversations are one sided. No one is telling you what you meant. No one really cares what you meant. I'm explaining to you why others are bringing it up and why it makes perfect sense for them to do so in a conversation about our guards but you'd rather be insufferable in your stubbornness to stupid details in order to claim you're right.

You're right in your hypothetical situation and your magic wand waving. Great talk.

[DAF86]

Looking at some scoreboards around the league, our defense doesn't look that bad, tbh.

Wolves just dropped 131.

The all defensive Celtics allowed 113. The Warriors 123. The Pelicans scored 149.

The new offensive rebound rule is making a bigger difference than anticipated.

[DAF86]

Bruh, don't go around telling other people what they meant. I am not talking about in a few weeks. I'm talking about right now. White isn't healthy right now. Walker isn't either. If he were healthy, White still wouldn't not be. So no, it doesn't make sense to bring up White. If we are waiving a magic wand and making folks better, we may as well do so for Murray as well. It's important, because when Walker is healthy, I do NOT want him to start, with White or without White, because Lonnie is a health risk. Walker needs to spend quite a bit of time reestablishing himself in Austin. I love Lonnie's potential, but knee injuries are scary, and they can't afford to rush him back or put too big of a load on him. Best case for me would be giving him NBA minutes starting in like February, with him hopefully having a solid rotation spot by the end of the season.

So no, talking about White doesn't apply here. The previous poster thought it did, and I clarified. You, already knowing this, decided to jump in and say "Well, I thought it was this, so obviously you must have meant this." I didn't. You just thought wrong. Not being stubborn would mean admitting you just read it wrong, not being so bullish about your opinion that you decided to explain other people's points to them.

Dude, you selectively bringing Walker out of the injury list was random as fuck.

What's the point of saying "I would be starting Walker if he were healthy", when he's not going to be healthy earlier than White?

It could make some sense if you thought that, even with White back, you would still start Walker at PG. But since you wouldn't, that comment was pretty needless.

It's like saying "if I had fish right now, I would eat it", then another guy saying "I would prefer eating a stake", then you saying "yeah well, I would also prefer stake. I'm just saying that if there was fish I would eat it". :lol