Teams droppping 120+ on the regular nowadays...

[ElNono]

The league is probably the most popular it has ever been, tbh, outside maybe the Dad killer days, but did they ruin the game in the process?

Only one team didn't score 100+ pts tonight (Suns), and we even had a game finishing 140-136, without overtime. Are the rules so tilted that defense rarely matters anymore, tbh? Maybe it's too early, and it's just a fluke, but I don't remember the scores being so high in general in the first few days of the season, seemingly league-wide.

[SpursDynasty85]

It is really sad. I dont like these high scores. Defense is becoming less important for sure. Its same thing as NFL but no legitimate safety issue in the NBA.

[dabom]

League rules brah.

[Chinook]

Question is if with all of these other changes would the league feel comfortable bringing some rules in to make big men or at least inside play relevant again. I guess three are more exciting than long-twos and post-ups, but dunks are most exciting of all. Incentivizing drives and cuts makes more sense than making long shots more and more necessary.

[TheGreatYacht]

All those elite scorers and PATFO are closing games with Fatty Mills and Dante Cunningham :lol

[ElNono]

I don't even understand how that new rule about not impeding movement can survive alongside screens, tbh... and screens have always given a huge tactical depth to the game...

[Mr. Body]

It's kind of rough to watch.

[JakeCuenca]

I love it.

Only thing I dont like is the extreme softness in calls. I think the league fails to understand that most contact is natural and for players to prevent themselves from natural contact to avoid fouls..its hard to watch sometimes.

[tbdog]

The offensive rebound shot clock rule just put a nail on big man. Oh and it helped the two best teams in the NBA in the process.

[skin27]

NBA fogrot how to play defense

[daslicer]

I thought about this earlier in the day about how in just about all of these games I have seen defense be non-existent due to the new rule changes. I feel today offense is king and defense doesn't really matter under these current rules.

[Fireball]

it looked bad ... but if this is a home game you could switch the score probably

[Hoops Czar]

It is really sad. I dont like these high scores. Defense is becoming less important for sure. Its same thing as NFL but no legitimate safety issue in the NBA.
Apparently you don't remember the 80's and 90's when the Nuggets were averaging almost 130 points a night.

[SpursDynasty85]

Apparently you don't remember the 80's and 90's when the Nuggets were averaging almost 130 points a night.

Yea. I started watching basketball around 95. By then it was a big mans game with scores in the 90s.

[sananspursfan21]

The game seems to get less and less strategic. The Warriors are just insanely good chuckers. And now you’ve got every team imitating their success. And the league loves it. Also the offensive rebounding rule kinda sucks if you ask me

[tesseractive]

Apparently you don't remember the 80's and 90's when the Nuggets were averaging almost 130 points a night.
IIRC, lots of people thought the complete lack of defense in those games was an embarrassment back then, too.

[JakeCuenca]

Apparently you don't remember the 80's and 90's when the Nuggets were averaging almost 130 points a night.

Different things. They didnt play defense in the 80s today the league wont allow them to play defense

[FkLA]

I just attributed the higher scores to more shot attempts because of the new offensive rebound rule.

What other new rules are there that are contributing to it?

[tbdog]

I just attributed the higher scores to more shot attempts because of the new offensive rebound rule.

What other new rules are there that are contributing to it?

You can't grab players off ball. Well, they are enforcing it. But they are calling illegal screens tighter though. Still a strong emphasis on protecting shooters. So you can't hand check, can't hold them off ball, can't crowd their shooting.

[313]

Through two games, the SA Spurs are playing at the slowest pace in the league, at 96.00. That would rank around late teens to early 20s from 2015-2018. From 2012 to 2014 it would rank top 5. Any time before that it would rank #1 or 2 most years.

The Spurs are one of only three teams playing under a pace of 100, and four points behind the second slowest(Suns at 99.25).

:lol Patfo thinking they were ahead of the curve by going back to the post up

[TimDunkem]

And the PATFO fluffers here really thought we could outscore teams with 2s thanks to the all-world defense of Charity Case Forbes and Fatty Mills. :lmao

[NASpurs]

And the PATFO fluffers here really thought we could outscore teams with 2s thanks to the all-world defense of Charity Case Forbes and Fatty Mills. :lmao

:lol we don't have the personnel to outscore the majority of teams and we don't have the personnel to play top 5 defense to compensate that. We're fucked. It just screams a mediocre, lottery bound team.

[John B]

We don’t have personnel to outscore teams into the 120’s. Spurs need to walk it and keep it in the 90’s. Call it boring but that’s the only way Spurs have a chance. Spurs design to run was with Murray’s rebounding, big strides and athleticism (and because he can’t shoot). He’s not available and Forbes/Mills would be trampled by athletic big avalanche. Walk it, pound it low, make it a grind-fucking-boring game where other teams would hate to play. GSG :flag:

[LaSíSí]

Apparently you don't remember the 80's and 90's when the Nuggets were averaging almost 130 points a night.

Cos they played fast, shot awesome, and took advantage of oxygen deprivation in the mile-high air; not because teams weren't playing defense or the rules were soft.

[Mirrornick]

I watched the Heat vs Wizards game. It was the worst defensive game I have ever seen. There was absolutely no defense from either team. The entire game consisted of chucking long range bombs from 3-5FT from the 3pt line. I don't know how anyone can sit and say that this is entertaining to watch.

[DAF86]

Cos they played fast, shot awesome, and took advantage of oxygen deprivation in the mile-high air; not because teams weren't playing defense or the rules were soft.

lol son. It wasn't just the Nuggetts. Every team back then put around 140 pts on the regular. The difference is that it wasn't because of the rules or a change in focus to attempt more 3´s. No, it was because nobody played defense back then. People need to stop being nostalgic faggots, tbh.

[K...]

I wonder if anyone actually watches now days or if they know we're all device broken. If that were the case why not turn games into essentially highlight attempt set pieces?

[urunobili]

Not sure if I like it or not...

[Ginobili2Duncan]

Why even watch tbh? This current NBA isn't even entertaining anymore. They're trying too hard to appeal to casuals.

[rjv]

i knew the drop from :24 to :14 on the offensive board was going to impact the scoring but add that to teams generally opting in to raining 3s all over in an effort to be the next GS, along with rules that allow players like harden to get half their points from the free throw line and there you go. and i get that offense sells tickets but free throws don't, or at least all the whistles.

[marinoman]

Well 14 sec clocks on offensive rebounds lead to more possessions

[Coach X]

The number of good shooters from 3pt range has increased and, consequentially, the spacing is better. Shooters can barely be touched whilst post players can be pushed, smacked, etc. The new rules add difficulties to the defenses as players away from the ball can't be touched either. Small players are more useful than big guys so small ball is the rule and that makes teams on court faster and faster, speeding up the pace as well.

This is the basketball we have. To me, is not nice at all because it's completely unbalanced. The game looks more like a GlobeTrotters game rather than professional basketball. Post players have been thrown out from the league by the NBA and its ruling and referring. Why they don't apply the same contact criteria to the post-game they apply to the 3pt shooters?
Basketball is constantly evolving, swinging between extremes about inside/outside, individual/collective, high/low pace, contact and physicality, etc. Through the Beautiful Game basketball beauty peaked finding an almost perfect balance. First two good GSW years were enjoyable but, sadly, that style is radicalizing as we see in the Rockets and more and more teams following that path.

These 18/19 Spurs aren't contending for the ring so I'm happy with our team playing the romantic hero role, standing the test of time until the championship chances are higher.

[spurraider21]

i knew the drop from :24 to :14 on the offensive board was going to impact the scoring but add that to teams generally opting in to raining 3s all over in an effort to be the next GS, along with rules that allow players like harden to get half their points from the free throw line and there you go. and i get that offense sells tickets but free throws don't, or at least all the whistles.
why would the offensive board thing incentivize 3 point shooting?

[dabom]

why would the offensive board thing incentivize 3 point shooting?

Harder to set up a half court offense, especially after a rebound. Easier to chuck a 3 faggot. :lmao

[LaSíSí]

lol son. It wasn't just the Nuggetts. Every team back then put around 140 pts on the regular. The difference is that it wasn't because of the rules or a change in focus to attempt more 3´s. No, it was because nobody played defense back then. People need to stop being nostalgic faggots, tbh.

They played defense, son; especially by today's standards.

[vander]

I think this should work in Spurs favor, teams are going to score all the time even against good athletic defenders working hard, so if you have terrible defenders how much difference does that even make? 130 points instead of 120?

play zone, switch on everything, go under screens, jump passing lanes, keep those old and unathletic legs fresh. cause even if they work their asses off fighting through screens and chasing guys around, they're still going to give up the basket.
Spurs need to play high risk high reward defense.

[baseline bum]

:lol we don't have the personnel to outscore the majority of teams and we don't have the personnel to play top 5 defense to compensate that. We're fucked. It just screams a mediocre, lottery bound team.

Can't win with the offense, can't win with the defense, yet this team is going to win 50 games? :lol

[baseline bum]

They played defense, son; especially by today's standards.

Nobody played defense in the 80s until Detroit

[spurraider21]

Harder to set up a half court offense, especially after a rebound. Easier to chuck a 3 faggot. :lmao
i dont see it, we'd need numbers that more 3pointers are being taken after offensive rebounds to verify that. i get that the 14 second shot clock means more possessions and more FGA, leading to more points. but would need data to show that it specifically benefits 3pt shooting

[ducks]

denver has not given up 100
held gs to 98

[midnightpulp]

The offensive rebound rule is a fuckin travesty to the sport. I can't take seriously the NBA as a legitimate league nor is NBA basketball a legitimate sport after implementing such a contrived rule to further increase scoring and pace to appeal to the twitterverse. I mean, :lol, what other sport in the world would penalize a team for retaining possession after a missed shot? As bad as povertyball is, you don't see a 20 second countdown or some bullshit when they retain possession after the shot rebounds to a teammate. Don't see it in ice hockey, field hockey, lacrosse, or any other goal sport in the world.

NBA basketball is a gimmick.

[Spurminator]

I mean, :lol, what other sport in the world would penalize a team for retaining possession after a missed shot?

How is it a penalty?

[midnightpulp]

How is it a penalty?

You get 24 seconds for an offensive possession in the NBA. The team that secures the offensive board now gets 10 less seconds for retaining possession. So defensive incompetence/offensive hustle isn't being rewarded fairly. In addition to speeding up pace and scoring (like the NBA fuckin' needed it), this rule was implemented to also produce more last seconds shots at the end of the games (i.e. a team grabbing an o-board with 20 seconds left on the clock doesn't have enough time now run the clock out/induce intentional fouls).

[midnightpulp]

^in addition, this is just more of the NBA's agenda of marginalizing bigs. The value of offensive and defensive boards goes down.

[Spurminator]

You get 24 seconds for an offensive possession in the NBA. The team that secures the offensive board now gets 10 less seconds for retaining possession. So defensive incompetence/offensive hustle isn't being rewarded fairly. In addition to speeding up pace and scoring (like the NBA fuckin' needed it), this rule was implemented to also produce more last seconds shots at the end of the games (i.e. a team grabbing an o-board with 20 seconds left on the clock doesn't have enough time now run the clock out/induce intentional fouls).

But they still get possession and 14 seconds to run their offense (or let time tick off), so it's not like the defense suddenly has less incentive to corral a defensive rebound.

If it's truly a penalty for offenses, then it should result in a much lower FG% on second possessions. I don't see that happening but I guess we'll have the numbers at the end of the season.

I think you're basically defining "penalty" as "less than what they've had in the past." To me, it's just a new standard, like going from 10 seconds to 8 seconds for a backcourt violation.

[Spurminator]

I much prefer the NBA boosting scoring through rule changes like this vs. what the NFL has done by increasing penalties to make defense more difficult. A 14 second clock reset doesn't fundamentally change a team or player's approach to a possession, or skew the advantage toward the offense. The defense still has every motivation to get a rebound on a missed shot, as does the offense.

[midnightpulp]

But they still get possession and 14 seconds to run their offense (or let time tick off), so it's not like the defense suddenly has less incentive to corral a defensive rebound.

If it's truly a penalty for offenses, then it should result in a much lower FG% on second possessions. I don't see that happening but I guess we'll have the numbers at the end of the season.

I think you're basically defining "penalty" as "less than what they've had in the past." To me, it's just a new standard, like going from 10 seconds to 8 seconds for a backcourt violation.

No. It's shit. No other sport in the world does this. And it's not equitable to a backcourt violation or anything of the sort. They quite literally changed a fundamental aspect of the game. And it's more than just about setting up offenses (and still, 24 seconds is a hell of a lot better than 14 seconds for setting up an offense). During the endgame, offensive rebounds are backbreakers because the team that retained possession can milk more and more clock. This rule devalues a fundamental aspect of basketball: rebounding.

It's working as intended, though. Already factored into tonight's game. LMA had a big o-board with 1:21 left. Spurs had to get a shot up at 1:12. Last year, you kill clock here till about the 1:05-1:00 min mark before shooting. And of course, the seconds this new shitty rule saved gave the Lakers an extra possession. It's gimmick garbage for a gimmick league.

[midnightpulp]

I much prefer the NBA boosting scoring through rule changes like this vs. what the NFL has done by increasing penalties to make defense more difficult. A 14 second clock reset doesn't fundamentally change a team or player's approach to a possession, or skew the advantage toward the offense. The defense still has every motivation to get a rebound on a missed shot, as does the offense.

Scoring was fine. This rule change was unneeded.

[emanueldavidginobili]

These scores are bonkers

[midnightpulp]

Let's take a look at how the "Twitter Rule" affects the end game:


1:21

LaMarcus Aldridge offensive rebound
126 - 120

1:12

DeMar DeRozan misses 27-foot three point jumper
126 - 120

1:10

LaMarcus Aldridge offensive rebound
126 - 120

1:10

LaMarcus Aldridge makes two point shot
128 - 120

1:10

Lakers Full timeout
128 - 120

1:04

JaVale McGee makes 3-foot dunk (Kyle Kuzma assists)
128 - 122

41.7

Rudy Gay misses 23-foot three point jumper
128 - 122

39.6

Josh Hart defensive rebound
128 - 122

35.6

Kyle Kuzma makes 25-foot three point jumper (LeBron James assists)
128 - 125

12.5

Bryn Forbes misses 27-foot three point jumper
128 - 125

8.9

Josh Hart defensive rebound
128 - 125

3.3

LeBron James makes 28-foot running pullup jump shot
128 - 128

2.4

Spurs Full timeout
128 - 128

2.4

Johnathan Williams enters the game for JaVale McGee
128 - 128

1.4

DeMar DeRozan misses 26-foot three point shot
128 - 128

1.0

Spurs offensive team rebound
128 - 128

0.0

End of the 4th Quarter


LMA grabs an o-board with 1:21 left. DeFrozen takes a shot at 1:12 (5 seconds left on the "new clock.") LMA put back at 1:10. Last season, this sequence probably plays out: Defrozen shot at 1:01, LMA put back at :59.

So, last year the Lakers have :59 seconds to make their comeback. Let's look at how the Lakers come back would've played out last year.

Lakers time out at :59.

Quick 6 second McGee bucket. :53 seconds left.

Rudy Gay's missed shot to the Lakers rebound took 24.4 seconds.

29.6 seconds left.

Kuzma takes 4 seconds to hit a 3. Spurs ball with 25.6 seconds left. Lakers would be in intentional foul territory last year or at the very best, quickly rebound and call a time out, leaving ~1 second on the clock. But most coaches are intentionally fouling.

And that's exactly why the rule was implemented. To produce more late game dramatics. As if the NBA didn't have enough of that, either.

[DAF86]

I have no problem with teams actually having to play to win games, instead of running down the clock, tbh.

[Immortal Spur]

Exactly ^^^ All it does is polish the game more. Aesthetically it kills the flow of the game and on the other hand it’s quite literally a waste of time. They want movement and flow. Visually it keeps the momentum going and continues stimulation which essentially makes it more entertaining. From a basketball purist POV I understand but tbh, it’s a kids game. Should be entertaining. Otherwise why do we watch and pay are hard earned money. I actually thoroughly enjoyed tonight’s game. It was a roller coaster ride. It was fun and exhilarating.

[DJR210]

These scores are bonkers

It's corny as fuck, this shit feels like all star weekend

[midnightpulp]

I have no problem with teams actually having to play to win games, instead of running down the clock, tbh.

Um, fighting for an o-board with 20 seconds left on the clock to force the opponent to intentional foul is "having to play to win the game." This is actually bails out inept defense during late game situations and makes it where "defense doesn't really have to play the game" in order to win games. It's a shitty arbitrary rule not consistent with what an "offensive possession" regularly is (i.e. 24 seconds to shoot the ball).

There's also other stupid fuckin' rules that have nothing to do with "having to play to win games." Like the offense being able to advance the ball after a time out. The offense didn't have to dribble across the half court line, maybe fighting a press or other defense. No. Call a time out and you get a free 48 feet of space (the seconds of which to traverse become mightily important in late game situations). We don't pay attention to how goddamn retarded the advance the ball rule is because we're so used to it, but it's contrived to produce more late game drama.

[midnightpulp]

It's corny as fuck, this shit feels like all star weekend

Corny league. When you think about it, why did the NBA ever need "more scoring?" Even in the grit-and-grind era when games ended up 85-80, that is still a shitload of scoring relative to other sports. One complaint I've noticed from people who don't like basketball is that there is too much scoring and no score feels meaningful (until the closing moments). I see that point more clearly than ever. Attritional baskets are a great deal more entertaining that walk up and launch or waltz in undefended for a layup because the spacing is so immense.

[JakeCuenca]

The bigger change is the softer calls. Implementing a 14 second shot clock rule does increase possessions but its not whats causing the increased in scoring overall.

Because teams shoot lots of threes, move better offball, and run a lot of high pick and roll..the emphasis on calling touch fouls offball has really opened the game up even more.

Less and less shots are being contested. And when threes are at an all time high..you get these scores.

The players who defend are actually very frustrated with these. If you watched even a few games this year..simply accidently touching an offensive player during offball is a foul now.

Its not the NBAs intention to discourage defense but thats ceetainly the outcome. This is good short term imo..

But things will get stale and they might find thesmelves in a hole in the future if this keeps up.

Good short term, bad long term.

[JakeCuenca]

Basically.

Last few years teams have been playing faster, shooting more threes. Teams would generally try to slow things down by aggressively switching or going through screens.

Thats not somwthing defense can do now..the defense is practiclly being told " dont defend"

[BanditHiro]

three point line is the worst case of affirmative action in American history.

[TDMVPDPOY]

high scoring pts avg

means scrubs with inflated empty stats = can ask for more money on next contract, when they are fake ass franchise players or scoring goto guys

[DAF86]

Um, fighting for an o-board with 20 seconds left on the clock to force the opponent to intentional foul is "having to play to win the game." This is actually bails out inept defense during late game situations and makes it where "defense doesn't really have to play the game" in order to win games. It's a shitty arbitrary rule not consistent with what an "offensive possession" regularly is (i.e. 24 seconds to shoot the ball).

You still have to rebound, you still need to defend. Those things haven't been banned from the NBA, tbh. What the NBA got rid of is of the 16 seconds of a guy just standing on half court with the ball doing nothing after offensive rebounds. How can anyone miss that is beyond me.


There's also other stupid fuckin' rules that have nothing to do with "having to play to win games." Like the offense being able to advance the ball after a time out. The offense didn't have to dribble across the half court line, maybe fighting a press or other defense. No. Call a time out and you get a free 48 feet of space (the seconds of which to traverse become mightily important in late game situations). We don't pay attention to how goddamn retarded the advance the ball rule is because we're so used to it, but it's contrived to produce more late game drama.

And that's bad why? Stop being such a grumpy old man. :lol

[Spurminator]

No. It's shit. No other sport in the world does this.

Every sport makes rule changes. The NFL has made several rule changes in its history related to play clock and clock stoppage. They've moved kickoffs 5 yards up, and moved touchbacks 5 yards up. MLB took away the 4-pitch intentional walk and gives relievers less time to warm up than they used to. The NHL has changed rules for where the goalie can make a play on the puck.

I have no problem with the NBA reducing the number of "hold the ball and run out the clock" seconds that occur within a game. The players and coaches don't seem to have a problem with it, either. Fans certainly seem to like it. Really the only argument against it is that it's not like it used to be.


During the endgame, offensive rebounds are backbreakers because the team that retained possession can milk more and more clock. This rule devalues a fundamental aspect of basketball: rebounding.

It only devalues rebounding compared to previous seasons. No player is going to be less motivated to grab a rebound in the last minute of a game. 14 seconds are still important.

What becomes more important than it was in the past is scoring after an offensive rebound. You can't just throw up a brick at the end of the clock and still have the benefit of having milked almost half a minute off the clock.

I would argue an offensive rebound is more correctly valued now. You're still running time off, but converting the possession into points becomes a more necessary result to take advantage.

[Spurminator]

It's corny as fuck, this shit feels like all star weekend

During the All Star Game, players go back and forth dunking in open lanes. Players don't even try to play defense because half of them are waiting on the other side of the court for a long inbound pass.

I'm not seeing a whole bunch of uncontested dunks in these games. Players today are faster and shoot better than they ever have. There are certainly aspects of foul calling that impact scoring... You certainly can't get in someone's face the way you used to. But for the most part (at least from where I'm sitting) scoring is up because NBA offenses are really fucking good right now.

It's evolution baby. Larry Bird would be a bit player on most of these teams.

[HarlemHeat37]

The problem is the whistles, not the new rule or lack of effort..faster pace and replacing mid-range with 3s was inevitable with evolution, but the emphasis on calling fouls has been annoying..

As Draymond said, the players were warned that the refs would be calling everything tighter, which has forced defenders to fear playing aggressive defense..I expect regression, though, and the playoffs will revert to physicality and more of an emphasis on defense(like GS vs. Houston last year)..

[TDomination]

The problem is the whistles, not the new rule or lack of effort..faster pace and replacing mid-range with 3s was inevitable with evolution, but the emphasis on calling fouls has been annoying..

As Draymond said, the players were warned that the refs would be calling everything tighter, which has forced defenders to fear playing aggressive defense..I expect regression, though, and the playoffs will revert to physicality and more of an emphasis on defense(like GS vs. Houston last year)..

which is crazy to think about given the fact that the defense has already been restrained the last 15 years or so. now its where you just try your best to annoy the player your guarding but forget about actually guarding them. it will be next to impossible.

the next rule change i expect will be where the defense will not be allowed to enter the paint area for more than 1 second and the no charge zone arc will be pushed up to the ft line.

i'm fine with the pace, but i absolutely HATE that they can no longer be physical.

[RC_Drunkford]

this is lame, I used to get excited when the Spurs got an important stop. I actually like seeing good defense, but I guess I'm in the minority. Question is, how can a team defend efficiently nowadays? I think that is the one thing that would make a team elite if they can hold teams to 100 or 110 points per game while being able to go for 130

[SAGirl]

On the Spurs it appears that it's going to become a regular occurrence. Spurs are next to last on defense in the league. It is early in the season tho....

[313]

The 14 second shot clock on Orebs makes sense, that's why every other basketball league in the world already implemented it. It doesn't make defense, worse, the increase in scores is coming from the increased pace.

The main ones detrimentally affected by this will be the 30+ y/o players, trying to keep up with the pace. We'll possibly see more injuries if players aren't properly conditioned, which is hard to imagine with all the injuries we already see.

[313]

I will say, this is the start of a new era in the nba and should get more media coverage.

[313]

The problem is the whistles, not the new rule or lack of effort..faster pace and replacing mid-range with 3s was inevitable with evolution, but the emphasis on calling fouls has been annoying..

As Draymond said, the players were warned that the refs would be calling everything tighter, which has forced defenders to fear playing aggressive defense..I expect regression, though, and the playoffs will revert to physicality and more of an emphasis on defense(like GS vs. Houston last year)..Funny enough, I feel like I can count on one hand how many moving screen calls I've seen

[james evans]

which is crazy to think about given the fact that the defense has already been restrained the last 15 years or so. now its where you just try your best to annoy the player your guarding but forget about actually guarding them. it will be next to impossible.

the next rule change i expect will be where the defense will not be allowed to enter the paint area for more than 1 second and the no charge zone arc will be pushed up to the ft line.

i'm fine with the pace, but i absolutely HATE that they can no longer be physical.
I hate taking charges. If they would remove taking charges from the game I'd be happy with it. The only way for that to happen is if someone breaks their neck on a play. Someone coming down full speed for a dunk and a player slides up under him. It's dangerous and bails out those who can't play defense.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I hate taking charges. If they would remove taking charges from the game I'd be happy with it. The only way for that to happen is if someone breaks their neck on a play. Someone coming down full speed for a dunk and a player slides up under him. It's dangerous and bails out those who can't play defense.

If they remove charges and call them as fouls then the scores will be in the 200s.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Feels like we're watching an And1 tournament with today's pace. I hate the lack of D, and the inability to body up and slow folks down. Makes the game one-dimensional and takes away strategy. It's now just a score-fest. Lame.

[Coach X]

Feels like we're watching an And1 tournament with today's pace. I hate the lack of D, and the inability to body up and slow folks down. Makes the game one-dimensional and takes away strategy. It's now just a score-fest. Lame.
100% agree.

It's not the new possession ruling but the new fouling ruling. Players can't play defense. It's ridiculous.

[midnightpulp]

You still have to rebound, you still need to defend. Those things haven't been banned from the NBA, tbh. [B]What the NBA got rid of is of the 16 seconds of a guy just standing on half court with the ball doing nothing after offensive rebounds. How can anyone miss that is beyond me.

Why doesn't this rule exist in soccer, hockey, Lacrosse, water polo and similar sports? Soccer, hockey, etc all have "time killing" strategies to milk clock. No, the "16 seconds" a team gets to run off is the "reward" they get for fighting and grabbing that offensive board. How can anyone argue against the inconsistency of what an ordinary offensive possession is vs. an offensive possession that came via an offensive rebound is beyond me. But consistent and organic design be damned. As long it's "entertaining," right? Here's a better fuckin' idea. Make the shot clock 14 seconds from the beginning (but the time it take to get across half court. Don't start the clock until the player crosses half court. What about presses, you take those away now. Have a half court clock like they have time lines in college basketball). I think 24 seconds is fine in all cases, but I guess this shit tier ADD culture we live in needs even more pace.


And that's bad why? Stop being such a grumpy old man. :lol

Because it's an artificial way of manufacturing it that devalues a key basketball play. Just make the shot clock shorter all around if the NBA needs "more" late game drama. "Old man." Yeah, criticizing dumbass shit makes me "old and bitter." Do you just open wide for every novel spoonful of shit the culture industry serves up to you? (rhetorical question. I know you do. Enjoy Avengers 14 or whatever coming soon to a theater near you!).

[midnightpulp]

]Every sport makes rule changes.[/B] The NFL has made several rule changes in its history related to play clock and clock stoppage. They've moved kickoffs 5 yards up, and moved touchbacks 5 yards up. MLB took away the 4-pitch intentional walk and gives relievers less time to warm up than they used to. The NHL has changed rules for where the goalie can make a play on the puck.

I have no problem with the NBA reducing the number of "hold the ball and run out the clock" seconds that occur within a game. The players and coaches don't seem to have a problem with it, either. Fans certainly seem to like it. Really the only argument against it is that it's not like it used to be.



It only devalues rebounding compared to previous seasons. No player is going to be less motivated to grab a rebound in the last minute of a game. 14 seconds are still important.

What becomes more important than it was in the past is scoring after an offensive rebound. You can't just throw up a brick at the end of the clock and still have the benefit of having milked almost half a minute off the clock.

I would argue an offensive rebound is more correctly valued now. You're still running time off, but converting the possession into points becomes a more necessary result to take advantage.

What I was talking about is that no goal sport (i.e. soccer, field hockey, ice hockey, water polo, lacrosse, etc) has a dumbass rule where the rules of second chance offensive possessions are different from the initial offense possession. If a water polo player shoots a shot that's saved, but is rebounded by his teammate, the rules are the still the same. This rule is a superficial contrivance to make the game more "exciting," no matter how asymmetrical it is to the overall rule set. If the NBA really has an issue with clock killing (which is a fundamental tactic in all clock based sports), then just lower the damn shot clock instead of this Calvinball nonsense they're going with. My gripe is that a hard fought offensive rebound should be rewarded with the same possession rules as the initial possession. The half minute off the clock you speak of is the reward a team gets for grabbing that board and outplaying the defense.

[midnightpulp]

Here's how Lacrosse does it. Once they cross midfield (which they have 20 seconds to do), the proper shot clock begins.


Under the proposal, a team will have 20 seconds to cross the midfield line when it gains possession in its defensive half of the field. If a team fails to clear the defensive half of the field, the ball is awarded to the opposing team. The referees will keep this time on the field, as they do currently.
After advancing the ball to the offensive half the visible 60-second shot clock will start. If the offensive team regains possession after satisfying the shot clock, such as with a save, rebound off goal, etc., the shot clock will reset to 60 seconds. If no shot is taken in the 60 seconds, the defending team will be awarded possession.

NBA should take note. 8 seconds to advance to the offensive half and then the 14 second shot clock begins. This way you keep secondary possessions consistently valuable with initial possessions.

[DAF86]

Why doesn't this rule exist in soccer, hockey, Lacrosse, water polo and similar sports? Soccer, hockey, etc all have "time killing" strategies to milk clock. No, the "16 seconds" a team gets to run off is the "reward" they get for fighting and grabbing that offensive board. How can anyone argue against the inconsistency of what an ordinary offensive possession is vs. an offensive possession that came via an offensive rebound is beyond me. But consistent and organic design be damned. As long it's "entertaining," right? Here's a better fuckin' idea. Make the shot clock 14 seconds from the beginning (but the time it take to get across half court. Don't start the clock until the player crosses half court. What about presses, you take those away now. Have a half court clock like they have time lines in college basketball). I think 24 seconds is fine in all cases, but I guess this shit tier ADD culture we live in needs even more pace.



Because it's an artificial way of manufacturing it that devalues a key basketball play. Just make the shot clock shorter all around if the NBA needs "more" late game drama. "Old man." Yeah, criticizing dumbass shit makes me "old and bitter." Do you just open wide for every novel spoonful of shit the culture industry serves up to you? (rhetorical question. I know you do. Enjoy Avengers 14 or whatever coming soon to a theater near you!).

I can see folks back in the 50's complaining about the shot clock being introduced to basketball because it was "an artificial way of manufacturing it that devalues the sport" :lol

[midnightpulp]

I can see folks back in the 50's complaining about the shot clock being introduced to basketball because it was "an artificial way of manufacturing it that devalues the sport" :lol

No. Because the rule is a general rule that is always the same. Now we have two different shot clock rules. Again, why does no other sport do this? Lacrosse is probably the most similar sport to basketball in how you can control possession and their shot clock on any offensive possession is the same.

[Brunodf]

NBA is trying too hard to be like the NFL tbh

The offense already is overpowered , if anything they should make new rules to lower the scoring.

[Seventyniner]

So what if secondary possessions get fewer seconds? Just because it's not what other sports do and not what the NBA used to do? This is turning into cloud-yelling.

[JeffDuncan]

To balance it all out, between big ball and small ball, they should make dunks worth 3 points.

[DAF86]

To balance it all out, between big ball and small ball, they should make dunks worth 3 points.

Actually, that's not that crazy of an idea, tbh. Getting a dunk means that you ran perfect offense and left the other team without any kind of defense. You should get rewarded for running perfect offense.

[midnightpulp]

So what if secondary possessions get fewer seconds? Just because it's not what other sports do and not what the NBA used to do? This is turning into cloud-yelling.

Because it's a gimmick rule that wasn't needed. Has nothing to do with being adverse to change because it's change. There's good change and bad change. This is bad change. How about some change to increase the value of what used to be one of the most essential (and most interesting) offensive skills in basketball: post play. Shots from the post are now one of the least efficient shots in the league. But no, let's implement a rule instead that will increase chucking even more.

[SAGirl]

Articles popping about this already:
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/10/community-shootaround-nbas-scoring-increase.html?fv-home=true&post-id=109545


NBA teams are averaging 113.4 points per game, the highest rate in nearly 50 years. Last season, teams averaged 106.3 PPG, which was the highest mark since 1990/91.
NBA teams are on pace to break the records for made 3-pointers per game (11.3 so far) and 3-point attempts per game (31.6) for the seventh straight year.
Teams have reached the 100-point mark 88.2% of the time so far. As recently as 2014/15, teams reached 100 points 51.5% of the time.
The Timberwolves scored 136 points in a non-overtime game and lost, the first time that has happened since 1992.
The Lakers are averaging 125.3 PPG (second in the NBA) and have yet to win a game.

the NBA’s officials are emphasizing “freedom of movement” this season, which means they’re being less forgiving of defenders who are grabbing, holding, or bumping offensive players to hinder cuts and other moves. Fouls per game are up from 19.9 last season to 23.1 this year, partly as a result of those tighter calls.

[HarlemHeat37]

The Pacers filed a complaint with the league about the freedom of movement rule..Draymond keeps complaining about it, as well, and it'll probably be echoed by many throughout the season..

We'll see if they tone it down..it's strange, nobody asked for this IIRC, their ratings were already the highest they've been since Jordan, it's the most popular off-season and social media league, Silver really didn't have to implement this stupid emphasis:lol the scoring was already going to be higher with the pace increase, there's no need to disallow all physicality..

[SAGirl]

The Pacers filed a complaint with the league about the freedom of movement rule..Draymond keeps complaining about it, as well, and it'll probably be echoed by many throughout the season..

We'll see if they tone it down..it's strange, nobody asked for this IIRC, their ratings were already the highest they've been since Jordan, it's the most popular off-season and social media league, Silver really didn't have to implement this stupid emphasis:lol the scoring was already going to be higher with the pace increase, there's no need to disallow all physicality..
In the depth of my mind I have a sense that perhaps it’s motivated by trying to diminish injuries, but i have no basis for this.

Many games get unwatchable since they are basically FT shooting parades. Boring.

[snickles]

did they ruin the game in the process?


yes

[TDomination]

Bring back hand checking! Jordan was able to dominate with it.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Bring back hand checking! Jordan was able to dominate with it.

so thugs or no talent hacks who cant play defense to remain in the league?

[dontouchmebwo]

I love it, the league seems more balanced now that every team can score. It was getting stale with golden state at the top, now any team poses a threat to them.

[SAGirl]

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[LaSíSí]

Nobody played defense in the 80s until Detroit

You need to go back and watch 1981 ECF Gm 7. Most brutal game of all-time.

[Hoops Czar]

1055945230795587584
Kerr obviously isn't familar with the Spurs new look defense.

[Rick Von Braun]

The league is moving more towards high scoring games, street ball and1, all offense no defense. If the Spurs had someone like Bruce Bowen in his prime, they could be disruptive. Damn Kawitter!

[Seventyniner]

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but but but the Spurs need to shoot more threes