How many mistakes has PATFO made since 2014?

[RC_Drunkford]

Long time lurker here, some of y'all might remember me for blowing up Jabari Young as Kawhi's mouthpiece on reddit and even putting his reddit burner accounts on blast.
Since it's basically impossible to criticize PATFO on reddit I just wanted to point out the mistakes that have been made since the 2014 championship. Kind of like a collection. As great as Pop and RC are, it seems like they have lost their touch and been fucking up plenty recently. With that being said I have watched about every game since 2014. I might've missed a combined 5 games in that time span.

2014/2015:

Drafting Kyle Anderson instead of Nikola Jokic
Overplaying an injured Tony Parker who couldn't make a jump shot against the Clippers while Patty Mills was on fire


2015/2016:

Drafting Nikola Milutinov instead of Larry Nance, Cedi Osman, etc.
Playing Boris Diaw and David West together all year so they can get outrebounded instead of staggering them with Duncan/Aldridge
Cutting Rasual Butler (R.I.P.) instead of Matt Bonner, cause Matt Bonner makes better sandwiches (which didn't have an effect on the results of that season at all to be fair)
Playing Kyle Anderson before Jonathon Simmons when Simmons was clearly the better player because of military pecking order


2016/2017:

Playing Kyle Anderson before Jonathon Simmons when Simmons was clearly the better player because this is the military and not an NBA team (luckily by the time the Playoffs came around, Pop figured this shit out)
signing Bryn Forbes
Not letting Dedmon shoot jump shots, so the offense gets clogged up when he made every bail out jumper and even shot 3s at the same rate as Pau Gasol the year after when he went to the Hawks
Saying Kawhi gets paid to do everything, so he has to play lockdown defense and score 25 when this team was clearly too dependent on Kawhi and it was kind of insulting when he wasn't even the highest paid player. I bet that didn't sit well with him/his camp


2017/2018:

Having Pau Gasol opt out to get a free agent who nobody knows about, because as reports said the Spurs were not interested in signing Chris Paul (So who did he opt out for? Paul George?)
Thinking Paul George would come to the Spurs
Resiging Patty Mills and Pau Gasol for a combined salary of 29 million (for that year) but letting Simmons and Dedmon walk when they could've been signed for 12 million combined
Saying we have to get more athletic in 2016 and then letting your 2 most athletic players walk for nothing in 2017
Resiging Patty Mills for 50 million (!!!!!) for 4 years (!!!!!!!)
Resigning Pau Gasol for 16.3 million (!!!!!)
Publicly criticizing Kawhi which has not only destroyed the relationship between Kawhi and the Spurs, but also contributed to a big media circus around the situation. You don't speak on issues publicly. This has also put the Spurs in a bad light, they should've kept it in house. Fuck Kawhi though.
not trading Kawhi at midseason to Boston for Tatum & Brown
not playing Derrick White when he's clearly a better player than Patty Mills & Bryn Forbes
playing Mills, Parker and Forbes at the same time


2017/2018


trading Danny Green instead of Mills or Gasol and getting Jacob Poetl back instead of Anonouby or Siakam (fuck the Raptors pick, I wouldve even thrown in another Spurs pick to get OG)
signing Dante Cunningham
signing Quincy Pondexter
playing Mills and Forbes at the same time
not signing any defenders



add to that the usual Popovich antics like:



still using all-bench line ups when the team has been more top heavy and less deep for years
make playing in the NBA feel like a job (remember reports saying Kawhi wants Pop to lighten up in practice? Remember J Simmons saying first thing Pop taught him was Basketball is your job? Who would want that? It's still supposed to be fun)
have a military pecking order which allows young players with more talent to go play in the G League and have worse players get consistent minutes because they been here longer and playing a rookie over them wouldn't be fair
trying to unload Danny Green when he's at least a good defender while Patty Mills can't do anything elite and earns 150% of the money Danny earns cause Mills is his guy
I hate to say it, but I agree with Stephen Jackson that Pop has his guys and won't even play better players because he likes their personality more
pulling young guys after one mistake to mess with their confidence (Bertans)


Bottom line is, they had all the tools and enough assets to contend for another 5 years minimum, but messed it up and are stuck in mediocrity now. I just hope the youth movement gets us back to contender status

[NASpurs]

Ether and napalm from the heavens. Serious post of the year candidate. :wow

[Fusternino]

Keeping Mills on the team instead of CoJo. And giving Parker the huge early contract extension.

[RC_Drunkford]

Keeping Mills on the team instead of CoJo. And giving Parker the huge early contract extension.

I agree. Although signing Mills who came off the best season of his life in 2014 scoring 10 PPG in 19 min for 3.5 million per year is extremely good value. In hindsight they probably should've traded that contract for assets

[K...]

Someone should tell pop to use hindsight more. Why he hasn't, I don't know. I've seen maybe people use hindsight to absolutely wreck arguments like a pro. You have to be a fool to take risks in basketball, it's much better to do what everyone else does and blame others for mistakes

[r0drig0lac]

not designing other wings to pair with kawhi (spurs have one of the best development systems), the league was really going by that way (of versatility) for at least three seasons

[Fusternino]

Also, I don't think we should have ever signed David West and instead got a legit 7-footer off the bench to pair for Diaw so both SL and bench had a stretch (LMA/Diaw) and traditional (Duncan/?) big. Turns out to have really cost us against OKC . . .

[RC_Drunkford]

Also, I don't think we should have ever signed David West and instead got a legit 7-footer off the bench to pair for Diaw so both SL and bench had a stretch (LMA/Diaw) and traditional (Duncan/?) big. Turns out to have really cost us against OKC . . .

I think the West signing really messed with Diaw's motivation. He was basically useless after that and was still our secret weapon to beat the Dubs in 2015. To be fair if David West wants to sign with you for the minimum in 2015, you don't turn it down. It was too good of a deal. But I agree, we would've produced better results without him in the Playoffs.

[DJR210]

Interesting read tbh, thanks for compiling this. The Spurs are due for another TP/Manu/Kawhi diamond in the rough front office find, but they've really blown it lately other than a Dejounte Murray and potentially Derrick White.. You got the Warriors over here with Kevon Looney playing significant playoff minutes on 1.1 million dollar deals, and getting creative purchasing seconds rounders to draft serviceable role players, and the Spurs are pretty much wasting all of their second round picks yearly and keeping their late 1st rounders hidden in Austin or penciled in behind wash ups. Cutting Blossomgame was pretty surprising IMO.

[r0drig0lac]

I hate to say it, but I agree with Stephen Jackson that Pop has his guys and won't even play better players because he likes their personality more


I really agree with your entire post but this part in question is the most worrisome and something I've been thinking about for a long time, Greg will simply live and die with useless guys (or far below what the team needs for reasons that have nothing to do with basketball),even if it overwhelms your best players
As someone said in another thread: the Spurs' big problem is when they fight against themselves, Pop is a genius as a coach, but FO decisions have been increasingly questionable

[TheGreatYacht]

Bold OP, timvp

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Zero. Point. Zero.

[superbigtime]

you don't need hindsight to know that the Mills and Gasol contracts were obvious mistakes. Yes Fk Kawhi, but not keeping this guy happy is ultimately PATFO's fault. Spurs are in a really bad position. It is going to be a rough season and likely more to come.

[iGetbuckets]

I completely agree

[Dverde]

I would agree with most. Not really fair doing the draft hindsights. Only fair when drafting in top 5 imo. They’ve done a decent job picking low.

[SpursDynasty85]

No matter how much I hate Gasol and Patty contracts, they were thank you contracts. They showed the league they always stick by their word. Patty signed at a super discount the years before got rewarded this time and Gasol opted out so they could get Rudy Gay and try to resign Jonathan Simmons. I think Cunningham can be given a little more slack. I think it will take time to adjust. He had a pretty good year last year and overall he has a decent jumpsuit. Pondexter wa risky but if he came along and got healthy he could've been a good veteran around the younger guys. I'm not sure why they ddint sign a SF after all these injuries to our gaurds but maybe it's because they are again keeping their word and had to sign the veterans to contracts. Hopefully other veterans want to come here to contend and extend their careers like Gay. Too bad the injury bug has been so severe the last 2 years.

PATFO made mistakes for sure but we still will probably make the playoffs this year barring more injuries I believe.

[RGMCSE]

Pop has flat out said basketball doesn’t matter. He’s trying to be a daddy to these players instead of just focusing on winning basketball games. I love pop and everything he’s accomplished but the moment he started putting basketball secondary was the moment he should’ve retired. I understand where he’s coming from and I can respect it but the league passed him by while he’s focusing on social issues. Pop started shaping his ultimate legacy and sacrificed the product on the court to do so.

[SAGirl]

The last two offseasons they really threw the basketball out of bounds

[james evans]

whaaat? NO disagreements in this thread? For sure I thought some popovich supporters would have claimed all of the OP's post were lies.

[Fusternino]

I think the West signing really messed with Diaw's motivation. He was basically useless after that and was still our secret weapon to beat the Dubs in 2015. To be fair if David West wants to sign with you for the minimum in 2015, you don't turn it down. It was too good of a deal. But I agree, we would've produced better results without him in the Playoffs.

Sure, you take him for the min, and the same with Lee. Still, neither is a 7-footer and or able to shoot the 3 consistently. We needed a legit back-up C that year and we get by OKC.

[SAGirl]

you don't need hindsight to know that the Mills and Gasol contracts were obvious mistakes. Yes Fk Kawhi, but not keeping this guy happy is ultimately PATFO's fault. Spurs are in a really bad position. It is going to be a rough season and likely more to come.
Both signings were heavily criticized at the time.

Its not even mentioned that b4 Kawhi “felt uncomfortable” with the FO, Lamarcus also wanted to leave.

I have wondered what has happened lately to cause so much player dissafection.

Sure everyone points to fuck Kawhi but b4 him was LMA wanting to leave, Dedmon looking out as a FA, JSimms asking to be released from his RFA status with his agent boldly declaring they were looking at offers elsewhere b4 he signed with the Magic. The Spurs are secretive and Pop is sarcastic with media and keeps family business in house. These are just things that have come out in spite of their CIA secrecy approach. I still admire Pop the coach but I have questions about the FO and the medical staff (Danny played with a torn groin and didn’t get followed up properly until the end of the season...). They haven’t been great.

[Fusternino]

I agree. Although signing Mills who came off the best season of his life in 2014 scoring 10 PPG in 19 min for 3.5 million per year is extremely good value. In hindsight they probably should've traded that contract for assets

His contract doesn't look so bad now after looking the numbers on the Marcus Smart contract. He played really well in 2016-2017. Not sure what happened after he got the new contract. If he's not getting at least 3 assists a game and shooting 40%+ from 3 then, well . . .

[RD2191]

PATFO is overrated tbh. They've made plenty of mistakes and have definitely fallen behind other front offices. The real stability behind this organization was Tim Duncan.

[SAGirl]

I would agree with most. Not really fair doing the draft hindsights. Only fair when drafting in top 5 imo. They’ve done a decent job picking low.
That’s true about the draft. I have pointed this out b4 and have little desire to debate about Anderson who I liked as a player but Jokic was really an unmotivated teen who by his own admission wasn’t great and very out of shape at the time. He wasn’t some prospect that anyone at the time thought of a must have.

They have drafted ok considering the late drafts. Also Kyle turned out an NBA player, not someone like Livio who never played a game or Milutinov who hasn’t played a game and may not ever at the rate things are developing with him.

[Fusternino]

I think in general though, Spurs have drafted well and each of their big $$$ FA signings (LMA, Gasol, Gay) have been great. I get what people say about Gasol making too much money but I still think he's very important to this team and is a net plus.

[Old School 44]

I think the mistake in losing Kawhi was how Pop treated LMA after his first year. Not that I think there is any personal issues with the two, but Pop always talked about "Kawhi being the new face of the franchise" and then after LMA complained after his initial season, Pop seemed to give in to LMA. My guess is that didn't sit well with Kawhi's group.

[lefty]

Ether and napalm from the heavens. Serious post of the year candidate. :wow

[superbigtime]

I think the ultra competitors Pop had in the big 3 just led him to assume great players want to lead and be great. But Kawhi never wanted to lead or "be the face" of the franchise/Spurs. I don't think Pop and RC and gang tried hard enough to get to know Kawhi. Yeah he's a mute weirdo but I think he's shy and sensitive and who knows Pop couldve been rubbing him the wrong way for a long time and was not insightful enough to pick up on Kawhi's dissatisfaction. Also the lifer spurs may have alienated him. Short term guys like Rudy and LMA probably caught in the middle. Bottom line is the Spurs fell apart on Pop and RC's watch. Their job is to find and keep the best players possible. They messed up an incredible thing with Kawhi. No one gets everything right. They drafted fine, can't complain about that. But the contracts they gave out were plainly poor. They let have made bad personnel decisions, we can all list a dozen Spurs with significant liability/limitation who got extensive burn in last 5 to 8 years. Spurs lucked out with Tim. Anyone will tell you that. Spurs are out of luck.

[FkLA]

A couple of things are legit gripes but most of it is dumb shit. Armchair GMs will love it though.

[kobyz]

2014/2015: not coming into the season with a real mindset and purpose of going after the back to back, not using the off season trying to re shape or bring addition to team like they could and should... pop and co going throw the motions that summer and during all season, being so soft and naive about the game and about winning caused us what should have been another title, and also caused real bad momentum and setup, still for years after...

[coachmac87]

Sweet.

Let’s do these Breakdowns for all other teams not named the Warriors...

Hindsight 20/20 BS. Honestly surprised OP didn’t go back to 04’ or in the 6-7 year gap between 07-14’

[Kobe'sAchilles]

I honestly think OP has never watched the Spurs before. I mean half of those mess ups aren't even mess ups. Duncan was injured so he didnt play that much. Patty was getting torched by Austin Rivers and shot horribly against the Clippers. So did Tony but it wasn't a mistake to not play patty more. I mean for goodness sake that's the year that Doc became a grandpa bc Austin is forever Patty's daddy. Jocic was 50 pounds overweight maybe even 70. I wouldn't have drafted him either. And our starting point guard is Dejounte who is injured and our back up point guard is Derrick white who is also injured. So yeah we are forced to play mills andForbes. Also we did go after chris Paul so idk what you're talking about.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Biggest mistakes Pop made since championship
Signed Pau Gasoft
Resigned patty mills to a 4 year deal. I dnt care about the amount if cash, it's the amount of years that matter.
Not adjust to the same fucking play that the clippers ran on us the entire series!!!
And not being Phil Jackson and getting fined 100k for the antics the refs got away with in game 1 of OKC so that game 5 antics never would have happened.
Not shutting down Kawhi for the year bc his back stabbing group went and cried to the media that pop didnt have his best interest bc Kawhi just wasn't healthy and yet the spurs say he is. Shut him down for the year *and I know it was bitchmade who refused to let that happen) and we dont go through this mud slinging drama

[RC_Drunkford]

2014/2015: not coming into the season with a real mindset and purpose of going after the back to back, not using the off season trying to re shape or bring addition to team like they could and should... pop and co going throw the motions that summer and during all season, being so soft and naive about the game and about winning caused us what should have been another title, and also caused real bad momentum and setup, still for years after...

this is another major Pop flaw. Running back the same group instead of trying to get better. Same can be said for last season when they came off a WCF loss vs. Dubs and thought they should run back the same group by adding Gay, Lauvergne, BP3 for Simmons, Lee, Dedmon instead of a roster overhaul.

[RC_Drunkford]

Biggest mistakes Pop made since championship
Signed Pau Gasoft
Resigned patty mills to a 4 year deal. I dnt care about the amount if cash, it's the amount of years that matter.
Not adjust to the same fucking play that the clippers ran on us the entire series!!!
And not being Phil Jackson and getting fined 100k for the antics the refs got away with in game 1 of OKC so that game 5 antics never would have happened.
Not shutting down Kawhi for the year bc his back stabbing group went and cried to the media that pop didnt have his best interest bc Kawhi just wasn't healthy and yet the spurs say he is. Shut him down for the year *and I know it was bitchmade who refused to let that happen) and we dont go through this mud slinging drama

It was Game 2 against OKC. Game 1 was a historic Spurs blow-out win. See, I watch the Spurs

and for the CP0 thing:

https://clutchpoints.com/chris-paul-opted-for-rockets-after-spurs-didnt-make-strong-enough-push/

[Kobe'sAchilles]

It was Game 2 against OKC. Game 1 was a historic Spurs blow-out win. See, I watch the Spurs
My mistake... But still the amount of wrong in your post is shocking. It devalues your premise which isn't a bad one per se.
Another mistake was keeping Bobo after the championship. The dude had no drive left after that and his play suffered because of his lack of motivation. But then again Pop does need his drinking buddy which today is Patty Mills.

[RC_Drunkford]

That wasn't the mistake, Bobo back then was a key component to beating the Warriors by posting up Harrison Barnes. I think the David West signing was the main reason for his loss of motivation

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Bobo was big for us in 2012-14, but by 2015 he had the infamous wine picture and clearly wasn't working out in the off-season. He arrived fat and out of shape and we all were saying just wait until the playoffs and Bobo will show out bc he is our new Robert Horry. And he never did. He got dominated by the eskimo twins Blake and DJ and then him and David Worst got dominated by OKC the next year.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Above all though I just hate injuries. We were all set to be the 2 seed this year tbh. We finally had athleticism and length to go along with shooting. Everyone else besides the Warriors suck in the west and have major flaws. I think we were the one team (besides the warriors) that didn't.
Houston has no defense. OKC still has chuckbrook. Jazz and Pelicans have no real offensive threat besides their #1 guy. Lakers have no defense and no shooting. Sota has in-house drama. Blazers peaked last year. I thought it was obvious we were going to the conference finals.

[Leetonidas]

A lot of these are hindsight complaints. Like lol you're going to bring up Jokic? Come on. Some legit points but most of this list is trash

[Mugen]

Lot of good points tbh. Sure, I complain about it a bunch today but I excuse Pop/RC for a bunch of different reasons, mainly:

a) I said that I'd be content after 2014 and I am tbh, 20 years of dominance for a small market team is insane. I basically forgive Pop for not giving a fuck anymore, don't blame him....
b) Timmy pretty much carried the franchise and Pop/RC always got way too much credit for having the best franchies player of all time fall into their laps
c) Kawhi ended up being the biggest faggot in sports history which you really can't put on RC/Pop....

My biggest issues were the thank you contracts given out to TP, Patty, and Pau and not blowing it up after it was clear Nephew was a huge faggot tbh. The rebuild being set back by 3-5 years because of the Derozan trade is pretty inexcusable tbh.....

[playblair]

its egregious that u left out one of the most horrible coaching/personnel decisions in spurs history..............playing dice over blair............& trying to turn a tenacious feared double double machine into a jump shooting dice clone

[spurraider21]

Lot of good points tbh. Sure, I complain about it a bunch today but I excuse Pop/RC for a bunch of different reasons, mainly:

a) I said that I'd be content after 2014 and I am tbh, 20 years of dominance for a small market team is insane. I basically forgive Pop for not giving a fuck anymore, don't blame him....
b) Timmy pretty much carried the franchise and Pop/RC always got way too much credit for having the best franchies player of all time fall into their laps
c) Kawhi ended up being the biggest faggot in sports history which you really can't put on RC/Pop....

My biggest issues were the thank you contracts given out to TP, Patty, and Pau and not blowing it up after it was clear Nephew was a huge faggot tbh. The rebuild being set back by 3-5 years because of the Derozan trade is pretty inexcusable tbh.....
the TP deal was awful at the time but still didnt prevent us from landing aldridge for max. honestly if kawhi doesnt pull his shit we're likely WCF last year and nobody is really complaining...

[Leetonidas]

its egregious that u left out one of the most horrible coaching/personnel decisions in spurs history..............playing dice over blair............& trying to turn a tenacious feared double double machine into a jump shooting dice clone

:lmao man stfu already with this dejuan Blair shit. I used to think you were a troll but you legit have a man crush on that fat loser

[Mugen]

the TP deal was awful at the time but still didnt prevent us from landing aldridge for max. honestly if kawhi doesnt pull his shit we're likely WCF last year and nobody is really complaining...

Yeah, again I'm not too broken up about the moves, I get it. The injuries to Dejounte and Lonnie really fucked the team, can't do much about that (though I was a big proponent of packing Dejounte for another star to pair with Derozan/LMA but whatevs)...

[RC_Drunkford]

its egregious that u left out one of the most horrible coaching/personnel decisions in spurs history..............playing dice over blair............& trying to turn a tenacious feared double double machine into a jump shooting dice clone

it says since 2014 in the thread title. Otherwise I would've mentioned signing Richard Jefferson and letting Matt Bonner start.

And I know the drafting is basically a long shot since they always got low picks and did pretty well recently. I just thought to still bring it up

[Mugen]

Gotta admit tho, the Cunningham and Quincy signings were stupid AF, anybody with half a brain knew those were fucking retarded. Not signing a PG during White's injury is also absolutely inexcusable considering how horrible Bryn and Patty are tbh

[playblair]

it says since 2014 in the thread title. Otherwise I would've mentioned signing Richard Jefferson and letting Matt Bonner start.

And I know the drafting is basically a long shot since they always got low picks and did pretty well recently. I just thought to still bring it up

sorry wrong year.........great op welcome :toast

[cd98]

Last couple of years it's hard to know if they drafted well or not. It will depend on how players recover from injuries.

[spurraider21]

Gotta admit tho, the Cunningham and Quincy signings were stupid AF, anybody with half a brain knew those were fucking retarded. Not signing a PG during White's injury is also absolutely inexcusable considering how horrible Bryn and Patty are tbh
signing patty and forbes in consecutive summers made no sense...

[ceperez]

Let's be honest, a lot of FO talent migrate to other teams in the league. So it isn't like the Spurs has a monopoly in smarts.

The best team today is GSW, who happened to become really good when Steve Kerr took over.

Then there's Utah, who basically have Quin Snyder (former Austin spurs coach). Did they not steal Golbert for under the Spurs?

What about OKC with Presti? The guy responsible for picking Parker and Ginobili. He went on a run to pick Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, Stevens from draft picks.

Then you got all these other teams like Atlanta, Brooklyn, Philidelphia that have former spurs brass lording over lottery and international picks.

Then there's teams like Memphis and Detroit that make it a habit of raiding Spurs players.

[ElNono]

tl;dr

[RC_Drunkford]

great point

[DAF86]

Off the top of my head, things every smart person complianed about when they happened and, as expected, ended up hurting the Spurs:

-Tony Parker's extension.
-Patty Mills' extension.
-Gasol's extension.
-Not being able to get something better in a trade where you are giving up, arguably, the best player in the World.

[KDKSpurs24]

Off the top of my head, things every smart person complianed about when they happened and, as expected, ended up hurting the Spurs:

-Tony Parker's extension.
-Patty Mills' extension.
-Gasol's extension.
-Not being able to get something better in a trade where you are giving up, arguably, the best player in the World.
Erase that last one. I can’t even believe you still haven’t gotten through your head that we didn’t have much leverage.

[Keepin' it real]

OP: I wonder how it would go over with you if someone called out all of your (perceived) mistakes in public.

[TheGreatYacht]

Usual Drunkford bath water drinkers are going with the hindsight spin on here, I see :lmao

Everyone with a brain saw all of these things coming, you were just too busy inserting cock into your mouths and pumping up Fatty's corporate knowledge and locker room presence or pretending that the Gasol contract was a LOYALTY contract to a player that curved you for the Bulls and had only spent a season before the extension.

Many here knew guys like Milutinov, Livio, Fathead, Walker, and White were whiffs except for you retards.

I, as well as other knowledgeable posters, could see the Kawhi situation being unfolded years in advance thanks to the shit roster he had to carry to back-to-back 60+ win seasons only to get the credit taken away by craterface. Keep believing he was injured you gullible scrubs.

[DAF86]

Erase that last one. I can’t even believe you still haven’t gotten through your head that we didn’t have much leverage.

You are crazy if you think the Spurs couldn't have done better than what they did. I'm not saying much better, but little things that could have done a world of difference like trading away Patty or Gasol instead of Green, or getting Anunoby or Siakam instead of Poeltl.

And if Raptors didn't agree you just don't trade Kawhi and that's that. You talk to Kawhi and say: "You want to be traded and we want to make you happy, but currently we aren't getting any good offers. Go out there, remind everyone just how good you are and we will be able to trade you".

[r0drig0lac]

I think in general though, Spurs have drafted well and each of their big $$$ FA signings (LMA, Gasol, Gay) have been great. I get what people say about Gasol making too much money but I still think he's very important to this team and is a net plus.

why?

[r0drig0lac]

Sweet.

Let’s do these Breakdowns for all other teams not named the Warriors...

Hindsight 20/20 BS. Honestly surprised OP didn’t go back to 04’ or in the 6-7 year gap between 07-14’

no one cares about the other teams

[snickles]

while i agree that PATFO have made mistakes, the biggest problem i have with posts like this....noone knows what they tried to do. Did they want to stand pat during such and such offseason, or did they try to swing trades and were unsuccessful? Did the pursue FAs X,Y, and Z and got rebuffed? even in hindsight, noone knows for sure.

[TheGreatYacht]

The real question should be how many disasters have PATFO avoided by the grace of other teams?

Wanting to draft Valenciunas over Kawhi in 2011 is one....

[DAF86]

Btw, this photo can't be real. :lmao

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/image.php?u=53010&dateline=1540211600

[Mugen]

Off the top of my head, things every smart person complianed about when they happened and, as expected, ended up hurting the Spurs:

-Tony Parker's extension.
-Patty Mills' extension.
-Gasol's extension.
-Not being able to get something better in a trade where you are giving up, arguably, the best player in the World.

Masai fleecing RC was hilariously sad tbh.

Anybody that thinks that Toronto wouldn't have done the deal if the Spurs insisted on OG or Siakam :lol....

[TD 21]

The intelligent posters have been beating this drum since '15.

After receiving praise in spades post '14 (team didn't have a stereotypical superstar, so media decided they were it), they clearly started to believe their own hype and have long since fallen behind the times. Unfortunately, this organization is more than likely going to continue to lag behind the modern NBA until they retire.

[Pavlov]

Threads like this pop up every season.

Including championship seasons.

[RD2191]

Threads like this pop up every season.

Including championship seasons.

One in the past 10 years tbh

[Pavlov]

One in the past 10 years tbhYou're calling scoreboard because the Spurs didn't win 10 championships?

lol

[sananspursfan21]

A lot of these “points” are fan perception based.

[gambit1990]

OP on the money.

[tbdog]

Every team makes mistakes. hindsight is one thing. Take the Sixers for example. They actively tanked and beat records for the worse team. They drafted 3 duds and were lucky enough that Embid didn't become Oden with so many injuries.

Also to note* Spurs avg draft pick in the last 20 years is like 28th or something. We also won all 5 titles while not paying any luxury tax.

[ducks]

they made a mistake of not firing pop two years ago when his wife was so sick
becky>>>>>>>>>>pop

[TheGreatYacht]

One in the past 10 years tbh
Chump getting owned as per :lol

[ducks]

Threads like this pop up every season.

Including championship seasons.

pop fucks up as often as the clintons

[Hoops Czar]

Every team makes mistakes. hindsight is one thing. Take the Sixers for example. They actively tanked and beat records for the worse team. They drafted 3 duds and were lucky enough that Embid didn't become Oden with so many injuries.

Also to note* Spurs avg draft pick in the last 20 years is like 28th or something. We also won all 5 titles while not paying any luxury tax.

PATFO has been living off of Tim Duncan's greatness for 18 years and now they're getting schooled for the frauds that they are. It's all well and good when they can sit back, do nothing and watch greatness happen but it's another thing when greatness retires and you get exposed for not knowing how to do your job. The Spurs need an active GM who's willing to go out and get things done, not a guy who's more reclusive than Kawhi Leonard and a personal secretary to the head coach.

[Pavlov]

they made a mistake of not firing pop two years ago when I found out he didn't like Trump.fify

[tbdog]

PATFO has been living off of Tim Duncan's greatness for 18 years and now they're getting schooled for the frauds that they are. It's all well and good when they can sit back, do nothing and watch greatness happen but it's another thing when greatness retires and you get exposed for not knowing how to do your job. The Spurs need an active GM who's willing to go out and get things done, not a guy who's more reclusive than Kawhi Leonard and a personal secretary to the head coach.

Can you name a franchise that not been exposed when a great retires? How are Bulls going? How many lotteries have the Mavs been in since Dirk stopped being an allstar? How the Pistons been since Billups, Wallace and Co left? How the Suns been since Nash signed with the Lakers. How the Twolves been since KG was traded? Or the Magic since Howard wanted to go to LA. Or the Nuggets when Melo wanted NY.

Newsflash, franchise players are the team. Management job is to make a championship team around them. Spurs won 5 and a few whistles here and there and they win more. In case you forgot, Spurs were in the WCF the season after Tim retired. Frauds? GTFO

[Cry Havoc]

You can tell how many brilliant minds are in this thread based on how many of them have ever been involved at any level of management in basketball that includes pay.

Sorry fellas, pee-wee leagues don't count.

[BD24]

A couple of things are legit gripes but most of it is dumb shit. Armchair GMs will love it though.
tbh

[therealtruth]

Biggest mistake was standing pat and what they did after every championship.

[Kawhitstorm]

Long time lurker here, some of y'all might remember me for blowing up Jabari Young as Kawhi's mouthpiece on reddit and even putting his reddit burner accounts on blast.
Since it's basically impossible to criticize PATFO on reddit I just wanted to point out the mistakes that have been made since the 2014 championship. Kind of like a collection. As great as Pop and RC are, it seems like they have lost their touch and been fucking up plenty recently. With that being said I have watched about every game since 2014. I might've missed a combined 5 games in that time span.

2014/2015:

Drafting Kyle Anderson instead of Nikola Jokic
Overplaying an injured Tony Parker who couldn't make a jump shot against the Clippers while Patty Mills was on fire


2015/2016:

Drafting Nikola Milutinov instead of Larry Nance, Cedi Osman, etc.
Playing Boris Diaw and David West together all year so they can get outrebounded instead of staggering them with Duncan/Aldridge
Cutting Rasual Butler (R.I.P.) instead of Matt Bonner, cause Matt Bonner makes better sandwiches (which didn't have an effect on the results of that season at all to be fair)
Playing Kyle Anderson before Jonathon Simmons when Simmons was clearly the better player because of military pecking order


2016/2017:

Playing Kyle Anderson before Jonathon Simmons when Simmons was clearly the better player because this is the military and not an NBA team (luckily by the time the Playoffs came around, Pop figured this shit out)
signing Bryn Forbes
Not letting Dedmon shoot jump shots, so the offense gets clogged up when he made every bail out jumper and even shot 3s at the same rate as Pau Gasol the year after when he went to the Hawks
Saying Kawhi gets paid to do everything, so he has to play lockdown defense and score 25 when this team was clearly too dependent on Kawhi and it was kind of insulting when he wasn't even the highest paid player. I bet that didn't sit well with him/his camp


2017/2018:

Having Pau Gasol opt out to get a free agent who nobody knows about, because as reports said the Spurs were not interested in signing Chris Paul (So who did he opt out for? Paul George?)
Thinking Paul George would come to the Spurs
Resiging Patty Mills and Pau Gasol for a combined salary of 29 million (for that year) but letting Simmons and Dedmon walk when they could've been signed for 12 million combined
Saying we have to get more athletic in 2016 and then letting your 2 most athletic players walk for nothing in 2017
Resiging Patty Mills for 50 million (!!!!!) for 4 years (!!!!!!!)
Resigning Pau Gasol for 16.3 million (!!!!!)
Publicly criticizing Kawhi which has not only destroyed the relationship between Kawhi and the Spurs, but also contributed to a big media circus around the situation. You don't speak on issues publicly. This has also put the Spurs in a bad light, they should've kept it in house. Fuck Kawhi though.
not trading Kawhi at midseason to Boston for Tatum & Brown
not playing Derrick White when he's clearly a better player than Patty Mills & Bryn Forbes
playing Mills, Parker and Forbes at the same time


2017/2018


trading Danny Green instead of Mills or Gasol and getting Jacob Poetl back instead of Anonouby or Siakam (fuck the Raptors pick, I wouldve even thrown in another Spurs pick to get OG)
signing Dante Cunningham
signing Quincy Pondexter
playing Mills and Forbes at the same time
not signing any defenders



add to that the usual Popovich antics like:



still using all-bench line ups when the team has been more top heavy and less deep for years
make playing in the NBA feel like a job (remember reports saying Kawhi wants Pop to lighten up in practice? Remember J Simmons saying first thing Pop taught him was Basketball is your job? Who would want that? It's still supposed to be fun)
have a military pecking order which allows young players with more talent to go play in the G League and have worse players get consistent minutes because they been here longer and playing a rookie over them wouldn't be fair
trying to unload Danny Green when he's at least a good defender while Patty Mills can't do anything elite and earns 150% of the money Danny earns cause Mills is his guy
I hate to say it, but I agree with Stephen Jackson that Pop has his guys and won't even play better players because he likes their personality more
pulling young guys after one mistake to mess with their confidence (Bertans)


Bottom line is, they had all the tools and enough assets to contend for another 5 years minimum, but messed it up and are stuck in mediocrity now. I just hope the youth movement gets us back to contender status

:wow:worthy::worthy::worthy::wow

[Kurgan]

You can tell how many brilliant minds are in this thread based on how many of them have ever been involved at any level of management in basketball that includes pay.

Sorry fellas, pee-wee leagues don't count.

^Ignore this faggot people. Has the absolute most vanilla takes when it comes to sports. He thought Connor would knock out Khabib :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Can you name a franchise that not been exposed when a great retires? How are Bulls going? How many lotteries have the Mavs been in since Dirk stopped being an allstar? How the Pistons been since Billups, Wallace and Co left? How the Suns been since Nash signed with the Lakers. How the Twolves been since KG was traded? Or the Magic since Howard wanted to go to LA. Or the Nuggets when Melo wanted NY.

Newsflash, franchise players are the team. Management job is to make a championship team around them. Spurs won 5 and a few whistles here and there and they win more. In case you forgot, Spurs were in the WCF the season after Tim retired. Frauds? GTFO

lmao comparing the Spurs to the Magic. If that's your standard then you should be pretty satisfied. That's like comparing your working career to the drunk bum on the corner. You look like a winner next to him.

[r0drig0lac]

^Ignore this faggot people. Has the absolute most vanilla takes when it comes to sports. He thought Connor would knock out Khabib :lol

lmao

[tbdog]

lmao comparing the Spurs to the Magic. If that's your standard then you should be pretty satisfied. That's like comparing your working career to the drunk bum on the corner. You look like a winner next to him.

I just named 8 teams off the top of my head, but you just hold onto that one team I mentioned to make whatever point you have worthwhile.

[RC_Drunkford]

I just named 8 teams off the top of my head, but you just hold onto that one team I mentioned to make whatever point you have worthwhile.

why don't you mention the Warriors?

[james evans]

PATFO has been living off of Tim Duncan's greatness for 18 years and now they're getting schooled for the frauds that they are. It's all well and good when they can sit back, do nothing and watch greatness happen but it's another thing when greatness retires and you get exposed for not knowing how to do your job. The Spurs need an active GM who's willing to go out and get things done, not a guy who's more reclusive than Kawhi Leonard and a personal secretary to the head coach.
There are hundreds of colleges in Amerika, not including the foreign leagues. Am I to believe that we can't fine ONE pg that can dribble and shoot throughout the entire world? ONE???? There are guys right now without an NBA contract that are better than Mills. Gasol is about 40 and moves like he's 50. When Popovich leaves, I hope who takes over for him aren't obsessed with old players

[Cry Havoc]

^Ignore this faggot people. Has the absolute most vanilla takes when it comes to sports. He thought Connor would knock out Khabib :lol

I actually said it was a true 50/50 fight. Nice try.

Accusing someone of vanilla takes on your shitty alt account = the most vanilla take.

My Team
Anybody but Spurs

Lol.

[tbdog]

why don't you mention the Warriors?

Warriors are well run with a huge support following being in San Fran. But they too have been irrelevant for years. They benefited to most from the salary increase and got Durant. Got Curry at 7th, Klay at 11, and Barnes also at 7. Draymond at 35 was the difference maker. To get a allstar calibre player in the second round is very uncommon. Spurs had Leonard at 15 and Walker at 17. Those the lowest we have drafted in years.

In the last 10 years Warriors have drafted in the first round Anthony Randolf (14), Edoh (6), Ezile (30), Looney (30), Jones (28). 3 of them are no longer in the league. And I don't see a long future for Looney and Jones. For the Spurs, LJC (28) has been the biggest dud and he was more of a draft and stash for salary cap reasons. James Anderson (20) didn't work out due to early career injuries. Hill (26) and Joseph (28) have both had good careers. Hill has been a starter for many. I still think Kyle Anderson will have a good career at pick 30.

But if you are comparing atm the best team to the spurs. How is being second make them frauds?

[Floyd Pacquiao]

pop fucks up as often as the clintons
:lmao

[MaNu4Tres]

Have followed the Spurs closely since '90, and I'll have to say I agree with the OP.

Love Pop for who he is and what he's done, but they've let emotions get in the way of doing what's best for the team multiple occasions.

I'll never forgive them for the Patty and Pau deals, and plenty other decisions.

[R. DeMurre]

Boston never offered Tatum and Brown for Kawhi. That's a complete fantasy. Plus the numbers don't work. Their offer was most likely heavy on future picks & shedding salary.

[DMC]

Nothing in the OP would have changed the Spurs fortunes to date. They are still a mid level playoff team at best, bubble at worst. Friend stacking and dick riding, though perfectly within the rules, makes all the shuffling of common card players irrelevant.

[dontouchmebwo]

I got one, playing David Lee over Dedmon in the playoffs

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Small market teams that never benefit from a high draft pick traditionally don't stay relevant very long. The Spurs have had to stay successful with end of the draft picks and opportunistic signings, mostly for situational role players. You lose your anchor in TD and his supporting cast and yeah, you're going to not stay super-relevant unless you land some new talent.


Pop and his staff have done pretty darn well, considering. Take a look at a franchise like Phoenix if you want to start counting mistakes.

[Seventyniner]

OP must be a married woman given the nitpicking while completely ignoring the positive moves.

[TDMVPDPOY]

to think that duncan/spurs could be sitting on +8 rings...but no, pop and frontoffice had to waste those years away

[therealtruth]

Have followed the Spurs closely since '90, and I'll have to say I agree with the OP.

Love Pop for who he is and what he's done, but they've let emotions get in the way of doing what's best for the team multiple occasions.

I'll never forgive them for the Patty and Pau deals, and plenty other decisions.

Pop likes to play it safe too much.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Pop likes to play it safe too much.

mofo wants to reinvent nba, he wants to be a trend setter by winning his way against the norm

he won with twin towers
he won small ball after wasting 4-5 seasons assembling a team of smalls
he won with the beautiful game
now his trying to win against small ball + beautiful game with his bs turd towers, but his towers love to shoot jumpshots then play the inside game...

and if you aint down with him, he show you the door....

[JakeCuenca]

^Ignore this faggot people. Has the absolute most vanilla takes when it comes to sports. He thought Connor would knock out Khabib :lol

:lmao

Thats like saying the Kings will beat the warriors in a seven game series :lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

^Ignore this faggot people. Has the absolute most vanilla takes when it comes to sports. He thought Connor would knock out Khabib :lol
:lmao

It really doesn't get worse than Cry Faggot, tbh

[superbigtime]

This list can go on and on TBH. They are not glaring mistakes per se and just minor gripes, but how about the oddball signings of Andre Miller and Kevin Martin. And those subpar late '00 teams with Bogans, Blair, McDyess, Mason, Ratliff, Bonner, Kurt Thomas. Outside the Big 3, spurs have always had such a poor support squad. Players with so many weaknesses. Standing pat with current players and extending mediocrity with loyalty contracts for players well past their prime are clearly biting the Spurs in the ass. Now with the absence of Tim's greatness on the court as well as the departure of TP and retirement of Manu, I believe the FO will be and is being completely exposed for being inept. No one expects perfection but just some real dumbfk decisions. Not armchair quarterback retrospective regrets, but outright errors that are apparent to any half-wit. This team will be within .050 of .500, north or south. Playoffs seem unlikely, and that's a polite way of putting it.

[TDMVPDPOY]

seriously if the spurs never chase lma in fa, and just focus retaining the bigs and build around kawhi, its not like they will fall off...

if they kept dedmon, simmons, lee, baynes and never chase lma/pau, is still a solid frontline rotation, ,just give them more freedom to chase their own offensive numbers,

[Dverde]

You forgot about chasing Andre Iquodala in free agency...

[therealtruth]

This list can go on and on TBH. They are not glaring mistakes per se and just minor gripes, but how about the oddball signings of Andre Miller and Kevin Martin. And those subpar late '00 teams with Bogans, Blair, McDyess, Mason, Ratliff, Bonner, Kurt Thomas. Outside the Big 3, spurs have always had such a poor support squad. Players with so many weaknesses. Standing pat with current players and extending mediocrity with loyalty contracts for players well past their prime are clearly biting the Spurs in the ass. Now with the absence of Tim's greatness on the court as well as the departure of TP and retirement of Manu, I believe the FO will be and is being completely exposed for being inept. No one expects perfection but just some real dumbfk decisions. Not armchair quarterback retrospective regrets, but outright errors that are apparent to any half-wit. This team will be within .050 of .500, north or south. Playoffs seem unlikely, and that's a polite way of putting it.

Don't forget Pop said he should be fired when they got Dice and RJ if they didn't win that year.

[TDMVPDPOY]

getting rid of your perimeter players which made you a defensive beasts on the perimeter, not replacing them with same type of players with potential to improve

not bringing Hanga over when ur down 3 defensive perimeter players, dunno if it was money issue, but they had no issue giving gay, pau, patty, belli deals

lol giving decolo the shaft cause he didnt develop quick enough due to the backlog of pops favoritism players and vets

[TDMVPDPOY]

Don't forget Pop said he should be fired when they got Dice and RJ if they didn't win that year.

remember the year they had gooden and fkn eddy curry? lmao front office wasting tims years.....u tell him t o do paycuts, but u go out sign trash surrounding him

[DAF86]

Any other Front Office would have gotten fired for the absolute shit-show of an offseason PATFO had this summer, tbh.

Just ignorance, dumbassery and negligence all around. A visceral display of ditachment from reality and a complete lack of understanding of what is needed to win in today's NBA.

[slick'81]

I dont blame the spurs for much.theyve always given out shit deals rose,rasho,jefferson,patty etc but i hated the way they handled the kawhi deal. You dont deal with a small market mentality when your giving up the best player in the trade

[objective]

When any front office decides to replace the pick-and-roll scoring big like David Lee AND the athletic defense of Dedmon by signing Joffrey Lauvergne to cover for both of them ... that's a front office that's underwater.

[Kurgan]

When any front office decides to replace the pick-and-roll scoring big like David Lee AND the athletic defense of Dedmon by signing Joffrey Lauvergne to cover for both of them ... that's a front office that's underwater.

Joffrey Lauvergne last year. Poeltl this year. That horrendous Gasol contract. This front office sure loves Euro scrub bigs.

[Spurs fever]

I really wonder if Pop just asked Kawhi if he wanted to be here and then folded his arms and said okay when he said no. He's very egotistical/stubborn and I don't think I can see him pushing too hard to keep him. Just wondering.

[TheGreatYacht]

Joffrey Lauvergne last year. Poeltl this year. That horrendous Gasol contract. This front office sure loves Euro scrub bigs.
RC had Valenciunas above Kawhi on his draft board :lol

[TimDunkem]

Let's be honest. This FO could've gotten a lot more out of the Big 3/Kawhi eras had they been a more competent front office. Not complaining, of course. 5 rings and 6 Finals are great, but they've built themselves an undeserving reputation in regards to roster construction.

The Big 3/Kawhi and Pop before he stopped caring were enough to carry bad rosters to 50 wins a season every year, and make you forget those bad contracts and bad draft picks. Unfortunately, Tim eventually had to go and we saw where it went from there starting with the awful loyalty deals to Pau and Mills. Those loyalty deals usually work with cerebral, all time greats, but not your scrubs of the world. Poor, poor, pooooor decisions and everyone here who understood where the NBA was trending knew it.

In the end though, nothing will change until Pop and his glorified secretary RC are gone. Expect more loyalty deals, expect guys like Patty and Gasol to retire here, and expect PATFO to remain content with just being a middle of the road team.

[TimDunkem]

But, to add to the list of mistakes:

Trading Kawhi and DG to the Raptors, thus needing a wing, while they have OG, Miles, Powell, Wright, Brown, and Richardson...but instead you get the worst big on their roster, 7ft Peter Peckerwood Poeltl. :vomit:

[slick'81]

But, to add to the list of mistakes:

Trading Kawhi and DG to the Raptors, thus needing a wing, while they have OG, Miles, Powell, Wright, Brown, and Richardson...but instead you get the worst big on their roster, 7ft Peter Peckerwood Poeltl. :vomit:

dont forget siakam

[TimDunkem]

dont forget siakam

I preferred him if you had to take a big, but the point was doubling down on Forbes and not finding an adequate replacement on the wing after losing Green, Manu, and Anderson was a bad move. No Belinelli wasn't enough.

[RC_Drunkford]

bump. Feel free to add on to this

[RC_Drunkford]

"Pop was asked if Bryn Forbes reminds him any of Gary Neal.
Pop: "No. ... He reminds me of Steph Curry.”

“Brandon is a guy who can guard a lot of positions and bring physicality,” Spurs assistant coach Ime Udoka said. “You can put him on a lot of guys. Bigger guys, smaller guys, he’s pretty versatile in that sense. We’re looking for some of the same things from him that Jonathon Simmons brought last year.”

"Who has been the biggest surprise outside of DeMar and LaMarcus? Ime Udoka: Bryn Forbes. Bryn has been great. He showed a nice progression between last year and summer league and all those things, but you never know until you’re put in that position playing major minutes and obviously starting. (https://theathletic.com/693596/2018/12/04/checking-in-with-the-assistants-ime-udoka-on-spurs-ups-downs-and-surprises/) He got forced into a starting role, and he’s been great. He’s not a natural point guard and never played the position in his career so for him to come out and somewhat run the team and try to hold us together with the new group that we have, it’s been great. He’s playing great defense and working extremely hard. Playing a new position with a young guy out there, you never know. So, he’s been great."

[slick'81]

"Pop was asked if Bryn Forbes reminds him any of Gary Neal.
Pop: "No. ... He reminds me of Steph Curry.”

“Brandon is a guy who can guard a lot of positions and bring physicality,” Spurs assistant coach Ime Udoka said. “You can put him on a lot of guys. Bigger guys, smaller guys, he’s pretty versatile in that sense. We’re looking for some of the same things from him that Jonathon Simmons brought last year.”

"Who has been the biggest surprise outside of DeMar and LaMarcus? Ime Udoka: Bryn Forbes. Bryn has been great. He showed a nice progression between last year and summer league and all those things, but you never know until you’re put in that position playing major minutes and obviously starting. (https://theathletic.com/693596/2018/12/04/checking-in-with-the-assistants-ime-udoka-on-spurs-ups-downs-and-surprises/) He got forced into a starting role, and he’s been great. He’s not a natural point guard and never played the position in his career so for him to come out and somewhat run the team and try to hold us together with the new group that we have, it’s been great. He’s playing great defense and working extremely hard. Playing a new position with a young guy out there, you never know. So, he’s been great."


forbes and mills numbers are near identical .talk about a dynamic defensive duo

[RC_Drunkford]

Bump:wakeup

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Pau Gasol was an insane waste of money

[dbreiden83080]

Well apparently they expected their best player to play through a degree of pain and not be a complete and total pussy. Shame on them.

[r0drig0lac]

Well apparently they expected their best player to play through a degree of pain and not be a complete and total pussy. Shame on them.

I did not understand the relationship of Kawhi's situation with the mistakes of the front office,Are you saying that Kawhi should play and hide the faults of the front office in the assembly of the roster? because what's in question here are the errors of the front office, and these errors have nothing to do with what the team is doing on the court (even because the complaints already existed when Kawhi was playing)

[dbreiden83080]

I did not understand the relationship of Kawhi's situation with the mistakes of the front office,Are you saying that Kawhi should play and hide the faults of the front office in the assembly of the roster? because what's in question here are the errors of the front office, and these errors have nothing to do with what the team is doing on the court (even because the complaints already existed when Kawhi was playing)

Who are we comparing the FO to exactly? You have a list of teams that are knocking it out of the park without a top end franchise level player? Everyone looks good when you have that guy. Spurs have been up there with some of the best teams ever in terms of building around that guy. Just a few years ago they were in the WCF and had a huge lead in game 1 against the mighty Warriors.. They even played well last year through all the drama surrounding that dip shit.. This year we are mediocre and a tear down is needed.

[tbdog]

Pau Gasol was an insane waste of money

It was a big overpay, sure. Giving him any guaranteed money on the third year is a head-scratcher. But his game looked really good coming into the season. Since the fracture, it has put him on retirement watch.

[TDMVPDPOY]

isnt his 3rd year partially teed? should be looking at dumping pau

as for patty fuck culture, get rid of him even if he plays for the minimum...overrated kent

[YGWHI]

Spurs' biggest mistakes was PATFO lack of ability to adapt to new times.

They kept signing "loyalty" contracts to players who didn't show on court they deserved that loyalty.

They treated all players like they were low-key Tim but Tim Duncan was unique.

You can call stars b*tches but like it or not, teams needed and adapted to find a different new approach with stars.

I doubt Kerr loved Dray or KD personalities but he could deal with it for 2 years and won 2 rings.
Can you imagine Pop dealing with Kobe's personality? Or MJ? Pop's "Get over yourself" wouldn't work for them.

With Pop has always been "my way" and that's not working in today NBA. GMs and coaches show more flexibility on these days.

But also Spurs' style on court doesn't fit in this league that well.

Spurs' cult of Pop's personality + old style of play + lack of adaptability to new times/new league = recipe for disaster/#8 seed right now.

[Dverde]

Good bump.

[Dverde]

Spurs' biggest mistakes was PATFO lack of ability to adapt to new times.

They kept signing "loyalty" contracts to players who didn't show on court they deserved that loyalty.

They treated all players like they were low-key Tim but Tim Duncan was unique.

You can call stars b*tches but like it or not, teams needed and adapted to find a different new approach with stars.



100% agree with this.

[Dverde]

Good bump.

[BackHome]

I’ll give them a pass this year since KY and Uncle Fester kinda screwed us not much we could do. But they better be aggressive this summer in trading/drafting players a minimum I want Gasol gone and I want Nikola to either be brought over or used in a trade. I want Poindexter and Cunningham and Forbes to be traded or released they all nice guys but should be replaced by guys we draft this year.

They need to hopefully draft some athletic players who have height and length and can play defense. No more drafting midgets if they under 6’6 I do not want them

[monty4329]

But also Spurs' style on court doesn't fit in this league that well.

Spurs' cult of Pop's personality + old style of play + lack of adaptability to new times/new league = recipe for disaster/#8 seed right now.

That might be true, but did anybody expected Silver transforming the league into a videogame for teenagers? I find it commendable that there still are a few coaches trying to play basketball. Actually when the beautiful gimmicks on defense work, and players move the ball and themselves (as opposite to the DDR iso shit) the Spurs still play quite well.

Anyway I expect next year to somehow the league try to fix the awfulness of this year's new rules. Otherwise we'll have 25 teams playing like Houston. Big fun...

[8sy21vd]

Leonard did a ton of long-term damage to the franchise, but 1) giving Gasol that insane contract when he was clearly done as a impact player and 2) taking on DeRozan's albatros of a contract were awful moves in retrospect. If the Spurs could unload both contracts this off season, you would have consider the off season a big win for the Spurs, which is pretty sad.

Sadly, I feel the decision making of the franchise is stuck in this state of purgatory trying to construct a 'competitive" roster which extremely unbalanced and doesn't fit to today's NBA as so many here have pointed out. Cutting salaries and building around a White, Murray, Walker, LMA core at least for next year seems like the prudent move since this team won't be a playoff contender in the near future.

[ceperez]

The biggest mistake was not trying to pry Draymond Green from the Warriors. That would have crippled them and made the Spurs more long term competitive. They should have passed on Aldridge.

[R. DeMurre]

I love Jokic, but no one saw him as a major draft pick. All 30 GMs passed on him in the first round and 10 passed on him a second time in the second round. Even Jokic himself jokes that he was a chubby, out of shape guy who ate junk food and wasn't very focused. The Nuggets themselves picked two guys ahead of him that year in the draft. It was a nice stab in the dark that worked out, but I think it's definitely a case of good luck and hindsight being 20/20.

[GusT15]

I love Jokic, but no one saw him as a major draft pick. All 30 GMs passed on him in the first round and 10 passed on him a second time in the second round. Even Jokic himself jokes that he was a chubby, out of shape guy who ate junk food and wasn't very focused. The Nuggets themselves picked two guys ahead of him that year in the draft. It was a nice stab in the dark that worked out, but I think it's definitely a case of good luck and hindsight being 20/20.

Jokic is still chubby and out of shape for NBA standards,mind you.
He is just focused now,and he is,as he always was,extremely good at basketball.He is good at all things basketball (except post defense vs dominant bigs-those get him in foul trouble pretty fast)

I can live with another franchise drafting a Manu Ginobili level talent in the second round,i really am.You can't expect to be the only team that has the fortune of "stealing" those kind of players in the draft.

I cannot however accept that we have such an awful,defensively AND offensively challenged back court,when Denver-for example,since we mentioned Jokic,has five (5),FIVE,guards,SG and PG,who would either start next to Derrick White or push him out of the starting line up completely.

I am not even exaggerating! Here they are :
Jamal Murray-no7 in 2016
Gary Harris-no19 in 2014
Will Barton-no40 in 2012
Malik Beasley-no19 in 2016
Monte Morris-no51 in 2017

And for some reason only they know,they went ahead and signed Isaiah Thomas in the summer.

And we are starting Bryn Forbes at SG? Really? Really?

There are no excuses,there are so many mistakes since 2014,they have put together such a terrible roster with so many weaknesses i can't even start counting them.

[SpurPadre]

50 Mill$, Gasol, Joffrey Lannister, not sucking Manu's dick to come back one more year, not sucking TP's dick to stay a Spur, not upgrading from Forbes during this season because of refusal for a good plan B after Murray went down, standing pat at the deadline. The biggest culprit is a pussy who single-handedly destroyed a championship franchise just so he can play in Toronto while taking games off just for the hell of it.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i think in the summer when the spurs loss simmons, lee, dedmon

was the sign for kawhi for following year to fkn leave....

he finally got the help he needs, younger team... yet they let them go, the money they save? they end up giving loyalty contracts extending tosb ginoboli and parker, let alone chasing that kent pau who turn them down once after signing with the bulls...

[RC_Drunkford]

bump. There's so much to add :wakeup

[spurspl]

its really hard to find any good decision

[RC_Drunkford]

bump. Can't say I didn't see it coming. The writing was on the wall ever since the 2017 offseason if not earlier

[TDMVPDPOY]

07-12 wasted so many draft picks looking for a backup pg...lol spurms, and how many of them worked out for the team let alone still in the league

couldve just sign some vet pgs to fill the void, but no..go waste draft picks and not developing them,,,...only one that worked out well was ghill who ended up getting traded

[Yogatti]

i think in the summer when the spurs loss simmons, lee, dedmon

was the sign for kawhi for following year to fkn leave....

he finally got the help he needs, younger team... yet they let them go, the money they save? they end up giving loyalty contracts extending tosb ginoboli and parker, let alone chasing that kent pau who turn them down once after signing with the bulls...

This post is spot on :tu

[Thomas82]

Hopefully we don't have another one this year to add to the already long list.

[XDT76]

The biggest mistake was not trying to pry Draymond Green from the Warriors. That would have crippled them and made the Spurs more long term competitive. They should have passed on Aldridge.

I agree the mistakes starts with LMA, when Utah snatched Gobert forcing Spurs to panic for Duncan replacement resulting in LMA. From there the Spurs needs to accommodate LMA by getting someone willing to play the 5 and able to shoot 3s that led to Gasol. After that the Mills loyalty reward and salary cap together with Leonard's departure leads to the other compounding issues. Some inevitable and others which might be avoided, like if Pop is willing to play Bertans as SF and sign Morris without considering Carroll.

[MultiTroll]

12 - 16 Craig Pops playoff record since Timmy Duncs retired.
4 - 12 since Leornard got Zaza'd

[gospursgojas]

12 - 16 Craig Pops playoff record since Timmy Duncs retired.
4 - 12 since Leornard got Zaza'd

You mean to tell me Pop’s PO record is not as great without the GOAT or pre-dead knee MVP Kawhitter?

Yadontsayyy??

If anything your post shows his greatness- 40 playoff games without them is quite the accomplishment.

[MultiTroll]

You mean to tell me Pop’s PO record is not as great without the GOAT or pre-dead knee MVP Kawhitter?

Yadontsayyy??

If anything your post shows his greatness- 40 playoff games without them is quite the accomplishment.
Pop has had 16 games without Duncan or Kawhi.
Not 40.

[MultiTroll]

not as great
"not as great"

I needed that. :lol Thank you.


https://media2.giphy.com/media/jQViSGNTsPq8w/source.gif https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/01/45/52/17193609/8/360x0.jpg

[RC_Drunkford]

Add giving Pop an extension to the list tbh

[RC_Drunkford]

I might have to make a new version of this thread. The list tripled by this season alone

[RC_Drunkford]

time to bump this

[TimDunkem]

:lmao Better get to work now if you want sleep tonight

[GAustex]

Pop broke out a bottle of his best to celebrate getting a dude with a broken leg

[slick'81]

First kawhi then lamarcus and now trey fucking lyles :lmao

[Prime BEEF]

Can we add the ddr 4yr max contract yet?

[slick'81]

Can we add the ddr 4yr max contract yet?


And mills for 3/45

[TimDunkem]

Pop broke out a bottle of his best to celebrate getting a dude with a broken leg
All to save the Holt's and some hedge fund a couple mill. :lmao

What has this great franchise become? Are we now just the Suns and Mavs fighting for playoff spot with the only goal being to turn a profit?

[Kurgan]

All to save the Holt's and some hedge fund a couple mill. :lmao

What has this great franchise become? Are we now just the Suns and Mavs fighting for playoff spot with the only goal being to turn a profit?

Our window closed the second Kawhi walked out that door. The mistake was Pop insisting on being competitive when we should have traded Nephew and LMA for pick heavy packages in the summer of 2017. Trading for Derozan was putting a bandaid on a gaping wound. Drafting the Lonnie Walkers and the Derrick Whites with mid to late 1sts is not going to make you a contender. We need real talent infusion with top ten quality picks.

[slick'81]

Our window closed the second Kawhi walked out that door. The mistake was Pop insisting on being competitive when we should have traded Nephew and LMA for pick heavy packages in the summer of 2017. Trading for Derozan was putting a bandaid on a gaping wound. Drafting the Lonnie Walkers and the Derrick Whites with mid to late 1sts is not going to make you a contender. We need real talent infusion with top ten quality picks.


We have one, devin vassell but hes buried on the benhc while halliburton is a roy candidate

[Prime BEEF]

And mills for 3/45
True. That one is coming too

[RC_Drunkford]

https://i.redd.it/yk22zkqx98p61.png

[Prime BEEF]

https://i.redd.it/yk22zkqx98p61.png
Who will it be next year? Got to keep the streak going

[Kurgan]

https://i.redd.it/yk22zkqx98p61.png

How much total money is that in buyouts? Pathetic what's become of this franchise.

[TD 21]

Our window closed the second Kawhi walked out that door. The mistake was Pop insisting on being competitive when we should have traded Nephew and LMA for pick heavy packages in the summer of 2017. Trading for Derozan was putting a bandaid on a gaping wound. Drafting the Lonnie Walkers and the Derrick Whites with mid to late 1sts is not going to make you a contender. We need real talent infusion with top ten quality picks.

Should have ripped the band-aid off Magic style. Now they're in the worst possible spot to be in, while continuing to embarrass themselves with virtually every non draft related transaction they make.

Pinching pennies and helping the Warriors luxury tax bill were apparently priority here; not getting something for the pseudo star who's got one foot out the door.

[TheGreatYacht]

ESPN needs to do a 30-for-30 on this :lol

From riding Duncan’s coattails to getting a train ran on by the entire league. They better count their lucky stars that the mainstream media doesn’t give a shit about the Spurms, or else they’d be laughed at worse than the Knicks or Hornets

[slick'81]

How much total money is that in buyouts? Pathetic what's become of this franchise.


Def not a good look for the franchise. Spurs are no longer viewed as a contender by vets .

Spurs have a decent young core but what they do this offseason with the trio of gay,mills and demar will determine their future dramatically

[GAustex]

The Holts are still paying DeMarre Carroll I think

[RC_Drunkford]

How much total money is that in buyouts? Pathetic what's become of this franchise.

over 50 million


The Holts are still paying DeMarre Carroll I think

yup 6.6 million to be exact and another 1.7 next year

[Ditty]

I have said it before and I will keep saying it again. No team is going to help the Spurs at fair trade value coming back to us. Especially after the 2011 robbery for Kawhi Leonard that should of put the Spurs for another 10+ years of contendership.

[TheGreatYacht]

- Hesitating on giving Kawhi the super max
- Paying Mills $50M, 1 minute into free agency
- Outbidding themselves and paying Gasol $48M for being “loyal”
- A year later that “loyal” player requests a buyout
- Pop gets the team to confront Kawhi in the locker room
- Going with DeRozan over better long-term packages, for Pop’s ego
- Refused to trade 32yr old LMA despite no longer being contenders
- Getting blue balled by Morris
- Revised DeMarre Carroll’s contract from 2yr/13M to 3yr/21M
- months later buy out the remaining 2.5 years of his contract
- Pop announces the LMA split, thus losing any little leverage we had
- bought out LMA
- Even career scrubs in Trey Lyles want out
- used as fucking cap relief and taking cash handouts

Not even gonna mention trade deadline/buyout splashes like Joel Anthony and Quincy pondexter :lol

[Kurgan]

over 50 million

holy shit :lol

[TimDunkem]

- Hesitating on giving Kawhi the super max
- Paying Mills $50M, 1 minute into free agency
- Outbidding themselves and paying Gasol $48M for being “loyal”
- A year later that “loyal” player requests a buyout
- Pop gets the team to confront Kawhi in the locker room
- Going with DeRozan over better long-term packages, for Pop’s ego
- Refused to trade 32yr old LMA despite no longer being contenders
- Getting blue balled by Morris
- Revised DeMarre Carroll’s contract from 2yr/13M to 3yr/21M
- months later buy out the remaining 2.5 years of his contract
- Pop announces the LMA split, thus losing any little leverage we had
- bought out LMA
- Even career scrubs in Trey Lyles want out
- used as fucking cap relief and taking cash handouts

Not even gonna mention trade deadline/buyout splashes like Joel Anthony and Quincy pondexter :lol

We just knew shit was going south that hot Texas night in the summer of 2017.

[GAustex]

Playing Forbes big minutes

[Prime BEEF]

- Hesitating on giving Kawhi the super max
- Paying Mills $50M, 1 minute into free agency
- Outbidding themselves and paying Gasol $48M for being “loyal”
- A year later that “loyal” player requests a buyout
- Pop gets the team to confront Kawhi in the locker room
- Going with DeRozan over better long-term packages, for Pop’s ego
- Refused to trade 32yr old LMA despite no longer being contenders
- Getting blue balled by Morris
- Revised DeMarre Carroll’s contract from 2yr/13M to 3yr/21M
- months later buy out the remaining 2.5 years of his contract
- Pop announces the LMA split, thus losing any little leverage we had
- bought out LMA
- Even career scrubs in Trey Lyles want out
- used as fucking cap relief and taking cash handouts

Not even gonna mention trade deadline/buyout splashes like Joel Anthony and Quincy pondexter :lol
Geez. Just awful

[RC_Drunkford]

We just knew shit was going south that hot Texas night in the summer of 2017.

A lot of us knew that right there was the beginning of the end. The sniffers still don’t want to believe it

[cool cat]

I don't see how an incident like the Morris situation could occur without someone getting fired. Then the amount of dead money this franchise has carried the last 5 years (outside of Timmy) is a complete failure.

[B1gduff]

1. Mills was easily worth his contract.
2. Gasol was the big question mark and plan out stupid.
3. No issue with the COnfrontation with Kawhi, he wasn't being clear about when he woulf have returned.
4. The only Package that i Regret not going after, is the Clips package of Harris+ 2 picks, which one of could have been SGA
5. refusing to trade LA at 32, can go either way. He was still in his Prime and still giving you 20+ pts, solid def. Unless you get a grand trade package, you try to work on it and keep it.
6. The real Issue with number 5, was Kawhi being an Bitch and wanting out. LA still had 2 all-start years.
7. No one expected Carrol of the cliff after a solid 2018. Can't blame the front office. Alot of teams have bad contracts....
8. Morris shit was on him and not the front office.

You know what are really bad and awful mistakes?
1. Trading Harden, with 2 years of control, for a jack shit. That is bad. heck the Cavs and Pacers got better returns in that trade than the Rockets.
2. Having 3 MVp and not wining anything
3. Overpaying mutple role player......
4. Imagine not picking up luka with top 3 picks

The Mistake the Spurs have made are nothing compared to some big mistakes other franchise have made.

[james evans]

Popovich is purposely destroying the team so we won’t be shit after he retires.

[RC_Drunkford]

1. Mills was easily worth his contract.
2. Gasol was the big question mark and plan out stupid.
3. No issue with the COnfrontation with Kawhi, he wasn't being clear about when he woulf have returned.
4. The only Package that i Regret not going after, is the Clips package of Harris+ 2 picks, which one of could have been SGA
5. refusing to trade LA at 32, can go either way. He was still in his Prime and still giving you 20+ pts, solid def. Unless you get a grand trade package, you try to work on it and keep it.
6. The real Issue with number 5, was Kawhi being an Bitch and wanting out. LA still had 2 all-start years.
7. No one expected Carrol of the cliff after a solid 2018. Can't blame the front office. Alot of teams have bad contracts....
8. Morris shit was on him and not the front office.

You know what are really bad and awful mistakes?
1. Trading Harden, with 2 years of control, for a jack shit. That is bad. heck the Cavs and Pacers got better returns in that trade than the Rockets.
2. Having 3 MVp and not wining anything
3. Overpaying mutple role player......
4. Imagine not picking up luka with top 3 picks

The Mistake the Spurs have made are nothing compared to some big mistakes other franchise have made.

if you’re comparing them to the Kings, Knicks and T-Wolves then yes. They right there with them

[timtonymanu]

Embarrassingly bad. And I’m not sure it’s over yet tbh.

[TheGreatYacht]

Popovich is purposely destroying the team so we won’t be shit after he retires.
This is exactly what is happening.

[DAF86]

I'm so beyond the barrier of anger that it's starting to get funny, tbh.

-Bertans signed for 4 mils per year for the next 4 years. Later turned out to be 9 mils per year for the next 2.
-Carrol signed for 5 mils per year on a 2 years contract. Nah, 21 and 3.
-Bertans traded to get Morris. Fuck that, Bertans traded for nothing.
-Aldridge getting moved. Nope, Aldridge bought out.
-Aldridge giving up 8 millions. No, make that 5. Correction, make that 2.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

***Disclaimer: I know those aren't the exact numbers, but I don't give a fuck about checking them.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

- Hesitating on giving Kawhi the super max
- Paying Mills $50M, 1 minute into free agency
- Outbidding themselves and paying Gasol $48M for being “loyal”
- A year later that “loyal” player requests a buyout
- Pop gets the team to confront Kawhi in the locker room
- Going with DeRozan over better long-term packages, for Pop’s ego
- Refused to trade 32yr old LMA despite no longer being contenders
- Getting blue balled by Morris
- Revised DeMarre Carroll’s contract from 2yr/13M to 3yr/21M
- months later buy out the remaining 2.5 years of his contract
- Pop announces the LMA split, thus losing any little leverage we had
- bought out LMA
- Even career scrubs in Trey Lyles want out
- used as fucking cap relief and taking cash handouts

Not even gonna mention trade deadline/buyout splashes like Joel Anthony and Quincy pondexter :lol

*standing ovation*

[ace3g]

At this point I'm waiting on the 30 for 30: Deals Spurs Almost Made.

[RD2191]

At this point I'm waiting on the 30 for 30: Deals Spurs Almost Made.
:lol:lol

[NASpurs]

This franchise is ran by a bunch of morons. Amazing how much Duncan covered up the stink from top to bottom.

[RC_Drunkford]

this will get bumped a lot :wakeup

[Capt Bringdown]

The driving event that brought us to the present moment was Leonard getting intentionally injured by the Warriors. Everything has been shit since then.

[daslicer]

The driving event that brought us to the present moment was Leonard getting intentionally injured by the Warriors. Everything has been shit since then.

It's why I enjoy seeing the Warriors suffer right now. I hope they continue to have their own bad luck for years to come.

[RC_Drunkford]

this will never get old :lol

[8sy21vd]

God help us this summer lol

[itzsoweezee]

Might be the dumbest franchise in the league at this point. Just threw away three seasons that could have gone towards rebuilding

[Prime BEEF]

God help us this summer lol
Yup. Not looking forward to what the FO will do

[timtonymanu]

Oof I'm nervous for what this offseason holds. Especially with all that cap space that I'm sure they will use wisely.

[Kurgan]

Might be the dumbest franchise in the league at this point. Just threw away three seasons that could have gone towards rebuilding

Yup. Also poisoned the minds of our youngsters who now want to emulate Demar's mid range bullshit. Murray is a lost cause as an offensive player. He's a mid range chucker now.

[poopbox]

Trading Kawhi for Demar was one of the dumbest trades in the history of sports

[Kurgan]

Trading Kawhi for Demar was one of the dumbest trades in the history of sports

Brought to you by:

Popovich - wanted to "compete" and insisted on having a 20+ ppg vet instead of trade packages that were pick heavy or youth heavy.
Buford - Pop's drunken yes man at the top of the Spurs organization
Brian Wright - architect of the trade. From the man that contributed to the current state of the Orlando Magic and the Detroit Pistons.

[slick'81]

Brought to you by:

Popovich - wanted to "compete" and insisted on having a 20+ ppg vet instead of trade packages that were pick heavy or youth heavy.
Buford - Pop's drunken yes man at the top of the Spurs organization
Brian Wright - architect of the trade. From the man that contributed to the current state of the Orlando Magic and the Detroit Pistons.


Wright was ,and still is a head scratcher of a hire

[Kurgan]

Wright was ,and still is a head scratcher of a hire

There was a puff piece of him two years ago talking about how much he meshes with the Spurs "culture". Like Mills, they overlooked the flaws and chose somebody they like to hang out with instead of the most qualified for the job.

[JeffDuncan]

Brought to you by:

Popovich - wanted to "compete" and insisted on having a 20+ ppg vet instead of trade packages that were pick heavy or youth heavy.
Buford - Pop's drunken yes man at the top of the Spurs organization
Brian Wright - architect of the trade. From the man that contributed to the current state of the Orlando Magic and the Detroit Pistons.


Wrong about Wright. He didn’t become GM until later. He was only assistant GM then. The Leonard trade was done by Pop and Buford. I don’t like Wright, but he can’t be blamed for that one.

[JeffDuncan]

Wright was ,and still is a head scratcher of a hire


Wright was hired because he’s - ahem - progressive. Check his background.

https://www.nba.com/spurs/finding-mr-wright

Notice the “diversity” crap etc.

[Kurgan]

Wrong about Wright. He didn’t become GM until later. He was only assistant GM then. The Leonard trade was done by Pop and Buford. I don’t like Wright, but he can’t be blamed for that one.

Wright worked the phones during the trade process with Toronto:

Bobby Webster was on the phone with everybody that week — so many calls and texts, he can’t remember them all — but the phone call that started it all was to his old pal Brian Wright. Webster is the young general manager of the Raptors, working under Masai Ujiri. Wright is the young assistant GM of the San Antonio Spurs, working under R.J. Buford. The two are considered among the elite of upcoming executives in the NBA. And Webster and Wright have been friends since they first interned together with the Orlando Magic. If not for their relationship — their friendship, really — it’s entirely possible the Raptors would not have traded for Kawhi Leonard. Webster did so much of the work to make the complicated deal happen, and in the background did so much of the due diligence. The relationship between Webster and Wright probably made it happen. They could say things to each other that most trading partners can’t — or wouldn’t — say. They could be a little more honest, a touch more straightforward. They’d grown up together in the NBA. Webster will steer you on the road to the deal, just not into many specific areas.“You may have to talk to Bell (phone company) to figure out the records,” he said of when he spoke to Wright and how often.

[JeffDuncan]

Wright worked the phones during the trade process with Toronto: ...


I know. I read that at the time, and I remember it. It’s a puff piece. But did Wright, himself, have any decision-making power then? Nope.

[rascal]

Duncan made the front office over rated.

[TDMVPDPOY]

current roster vs ex players still in the league... i know who im takin

[K...]

Duncan made the front office over rated.

Nah, Duncan didn't scout euros before anyone else. That was a one time rent. Now a better franchise could also overpay for domestic talent, ll and get Duncan his btb, but being cheap did extend the window a bit. Before and after that though we're not better than the raptors, Utah, Miami etc.

[Chomag]

The last time the FO made good tough decisions was Timmy, Manu , and TP ( after that it was pretty easy to build around the big 3 after getting them) and all of those players are retired now . I feel that does kind of put things in a good perspective.

[RC_Drunkford]

Anybody got anything to add?

[scott]

Anybody got anything to add?

Appreciate the bump.

[Mr. Body]

Wright was hired because he’s - ahem - progressive. Check his background.

https://www.nba.com/spurs/finding-mr-wright

Notice the “diversity” crap etc.

Good old fashioned racism on SpursTalk.

[scott]

While I appreciate the list of mistakes (and even the harsh ones, like passing on Jokic, just like every team did), and they do provide a nice digest of things that could have gone better, much of it is nitpicking. And yes, I read this entire thread.

The OP was written before the 2018 season and meant to cover the 2014-15 season to the 2017-18 season.

In that 4 season stretch:

-2014-15: 55-27, lost in first round to Clippers. Mistakes in that series well discussed in this thread. Those mistakes, largely coaching decisions (not FO)
-2015-16: 67-15, lost to OKC for a lot of reasons well discussed in this thread. Those mistakes, mostly coaching decisions (not FO)
-2016-17: 61-21, probably on our way to a 6th chip until Zaza happens
-2017-18: 47-35, the lost season due to KL

There are lots of coaching decisions that in hindsight were not right. And there are a lot of FO moves that were questionable, though few were franchise-direction altering other than one, the KL trade. Was there a better deal to be had? I don't really know... but really, EVERYTHING stems back to Zaza's dirty ass foot.

Despite all the things in the OP (and subsequent posts) that could have been done better, we were still in position to be dominant into the future if not for Zaza's foot.

With that said, I did enjoy this thread, and would love a similar thread that starts AFTER the KL trade. What mistakes have been made since then that could have us in a better spot today? Certainly, trading LMA before it was too late and DDR sooner is something we'd probably all point to.

This is good stuff, aside from normal SpursTalk bridge trolls.

[tmtcsc]

A lot of blame for the franchise's demise can be placed on Kawhi Leonard and his uncle. First of all, as great of a player as he was and maybe still is, he became a HUGE pain in the ass and diva. By most accounts he was NOT a leader, nor was he a good teammate. The Spurs tried to be flexible to the changing dynamic of his stardom but not to the extent they needed to be. He was NO Tim Duncan. They really underestimated #2's willingness to walk away from the team as well as his uncle's influence. He pretty much tore the franchise up and sent it back to the dark ages.

[JeffDuncan]

Good old fashioned racism on SpursTalk.


From you, as usual, of course. But everyone knows you can’t help being such a racist.

[JeffDuncan]

A lot of blame for the franchise's demise …


“Demise.” Lol. Congratulations, you’re currently #1 in the big Drama Queen contest. But watch out, the competition around here is fierce.

Kawhi did not force the Spurs to start Bryn Forbes for two years.

Kawhi did not force the Spurs to sign Marco Belinelli and make a hopeless effort to resuscitate his undead career.

Kawhi did not force the Spurs to start Trey Lyles.

Kawhi did not force the Spurs to sign Dante Cunningham, Quincy Pondexter or DeMarre Carroll.

Etc.

The Kawhi Leonard you describe is only your personal version of Emmanuel Goldstein (if you’re familiar with who that is,) against whom you can direct your two-minute hate. But you are not screaming at anything real, when you do that.

All Kawhi ever really did was deprive the Spurs of his personal presence. Kawhi, himself, never did more than that. And as you choose to describe him, you should only be saying good riddance, with a careless shrug. You can’t say you want somebody like that around.

The Spurs were always going to decline after Tim, Tony and Manu were gone, because such players cannot be readily replaced. They are far too rare. How often will you see such players assemble on the same team, along with good teammates for them? Once in a lifetime, if you’re lucky. And that’s all.

So now the Spurs are rebuilding. It was inevitable. It’s nobody’s fault, it’s only the reality of the world with the passage of time. The old truism applies, nothing lasts forever.

It’ll be interesting to watch - I think - as the Spurs try to build toward greatness again. I’m curious to see what they’ll do.

[RC_Drunkford]

While I appreciate the list of mistakes (and even the harsh ones, like passing on Jokic, just like every team did), and they do provide a nice digest of things that could have gone better, much of it is nitpicking. And yes, I read this entire thread.

The OP was written before the 2018 season and meant to cover the 2014-15 season to the 2017-18 season.

In that 4 season stretch:

-2014-15: 55-27, lost in first round to Clippers. Mistakes in that series well discussed in this thread. Those mistakes, largely coaching decisions (not FO)
-2015-16: 67-15, lost to OKC for a lot of reasons well discussed in this thread. Those mistakes, mostly coaching decisions (not FO)
-2016-17: 61-21, probably on our way to a 6th chip until Zaza happens
-2017-18: 47-35, the lost season due to KL

There are lots of coaching decisions that in hindsight were not right. And there are a lot of FO moves that were questionable, though few were franchise-direction altering other than one, the KL trade. Was there a better deal to be had? I don't really know... but really, EVERYTHING stems back to Zaza's dirty ass foot.

Despite all the things in the OP (and subsequent posts) that could have been done better, we were still in position to be dominant into the future if not for Zaza's foot.

With that said, I did enjoy this thread, and would love a similar thread that starts AFTER the KL trade. What mistakes have been made since then that could have us in a better spot today? Certainly, trading LMA before it was too late and DDR sooner is something we'd probably all point to.

This is good stuff, aside from normal SpursTalk bridge trolls.

I actually think DJ tearing his ACL combined with the Marcus Morris fiasco is what put the nail in the coffin. That team would've looked pretty good with a healthy DJ and Morris tbh.

Murray/White/DeRozan/Morris/Aldridge
Mills/Walker/Keldon/Gay/Poeltl

plus Forbes and Belinelli

would've probably made the playoffs. DJ tearing his ACL basically set him back for 2 years so you would've gotten that Dejounte from last year 1 or 2 years earlier. Morris contract would've ran for 2 years so after that period the Spurs would probably still be where they are right now anyway with all the vets gone on the way to a rebuild, but they probably don't miss the playoffs until 2022.

[RC_Drunkford]

With that said, I did enjoy this thread, and would love a similar thread that starts AFTER the KL trade. What mistakes have been made since then that could have us in a better spot today? Certainly, trading LMA before it was too late and DDR sooner is something we'd probably all point to.

This is good stuff, aside from normal SpursTalk bridge trolls.

the scouting of Demarre Carroll was definitely not good enough. He shot a bad percentage from 3 on the Nets the season before. I liked the signing on paper, but that percentage was a concern and I didn't watch any Nets games so the Spurs should've done a better job on that. The Morris signing was actually perfect in theory, he was the player I was saying the Spurs should get ever since the season ended. Him bailing on the deal wasn't the Spurs fault though. Signing Lyles instead was a mistake. Not trading Aldridge, Mills and Gay at the deadline was a mistake. Not playing the young guys until the bubble was also a bad idea.

[Mugen]

I actually think DJ tearing his ACL combined with the Marcus Morris fiasco is what put the nail in the coffin. That team would've looked pretty good with a healthy DJ and Morris tbh.

Murray/White/DeRozan/Morris/Aldridge
Mills/Walker/Keldon/Gay/Poeltl

plus Forbes and Belinelli

would've probably made the playoffs. DJ tearing his ACL basically set him back for 2 years so you would've gotten that Dejounte from last year 1 or 2 years earlier. Morris contract would've ran for 2 years so after that period the Spurs would probably still be where they are right now anyway with all the vets gone on the way to a rebuild, but they probably don't miss the playoffs until 2022.

You forgot who would have coached that team tbh

Forbes and Belinelli would have been racking up 25+ mins a game while White/Walker/Keldon would have been glorified towel boys.

[MultiTroll]

With that said, I did enjoy this thread, and would love a similar thread that starts AFTER the KL trade. What mistakes have been made since then that could have us in a better spot today? Certainly, trading LMA before it was too late and DDR sooner is something we'd probably all point to.

This is good stuff, aside from normal SpursTalk bridge trolls.
Pretty sure a thread was started on such, but don't know where.

[tmtcsc]

“Demise.” Lol. Congratulations, you’re currently #1 in the big Drama Queen contest. But watch out, the competition around here is fierce.

Kawhi did not force the Spurs to start Bryn Forbes for two years.

Kawhi did not force the Spurs to sign Marco Belinelli and make a hopeless effort to resuscitate his undead career.

Kawhi did not force the Spurs to start Trey Lyles.

Kawhi did not force the Spurs to sign Dante Cunningham, Quincy Pondexter or DeMarre Carroll.

Etc.

The Kawhi Leonard you describe is only your personal version of Emmanuel Goldstein (if you’re familiar with who that is,) against whom you can direct your two-minute hate. But you are not screaming at anything real, when you do that.

All Kawhi ever really did was deprive the Spurs of his personal presence. Kawhi, himself, never did more than that. And as you choose to describe him, you should only be saying good riddance, with a careless shrug. You can’t say you want somebody like that around.

The Spurs were always going to decline after Tim, Tony and Manu were gone, because such players cannot be readily replaced. They are far too rare. How often will you see such players assemble on the same team, along with good teammates for them? Once in a lifetime, if you’re lucky. And that’s all.

So now the Spurs are rebuilding. It was inevitable. It’s nobody’s fault, it’s only the reality of the world with the passage of time. The old truism applies, nothing lasts forever.

It’ll be interesting to watch - I think - as the Spurs try to build toward greatness again. I’m curious to see what they’ll do.

Oh I see, you're of the simple-minded variety. One that can't see the bigger picture of how all this works when building and drafting a team to support your super star. One that can't equate basketball "demise" with an NBA record 22 year streak of playoff appearances, five NBA titles and Six Championship appearances falling to a franchise record playoff drought of at least 3 consecutive losing seasons and enduring relocation rumors.

Kawhi's departure essentially meant the end of attracting significant free agents to San Antonio as well as any real championship contention. To make matters worse, the previous successful formula of drafting good role players in the bottom half of the draft were over.

A couple of aging HOF'ers in Manu and Tony, along with heartless frauds like LaMarcus Aldridge and Demar Derozan were never going to compete for a title w/o Kawhi. They would have been good enough to compliment Kawhi but NEVER achieve anything significant without him.

So yeah, Kawhi Leonard, being the soft-ass Diva who wouldn't even try to return in the WCF with a sore ankle, holds a lot of the blame for the franchise's demise. He insinuated the medical staff was inept, the players and coaching staff didn't support him, blah blah blah. Held out with questionable injuries, forced a trade before his contract was over...etc..Besides being a bitch, he was a terrible teammate and leader. Good Fucking Riddance (There you go, Jeff).

The Spurs aren't without blame. They're guilty of stalling the inevitable but not as much as Kawhi. Bad draft picks, Brynn Forbes, Marco, Lyles and the countless other sorry players brought in to plug the dam were never meant to make up for Leonard. It was just useless chair reshuffling on the Titanic.

No one plays forever but Kawhi was supposed to be a major part of transitioning from the big 3. He bailed on the team and shit on the rebuilding efforts.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Oh jesus, we were not beating the Warriors in 2017 even with a healthy Kawhi ffs. We have been a shitshow with the FO and coaching, but Warriors were gong to win that series regardless. Kawhi injury sucked, but we also smashed OKC in game 1 only to get backdoor swept.

[RC_Drunkford]

this thread will never get old. Add drafting Primo to the longass list

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Confirmation biases impact how we gather information but also influence how we interpret and recall information. For example, people who support or oppose a particular issue will not only seek information to support it, but they will also interpret news stories in a way that upholds their existing ideas. They will also remember details in a way that reinforces these attitudes (https://www.verywellmind.com/attitudes-how-they-form-change-shape-behavior-2795897).

[Atl Spur]

this thread will never get old. Add drafting Primo to the longass list

Damn homie…….primo is gone but still living rent free�������� You may need to take some time away from the keyboard to deal with some trauma!

[Leetonidas]

^ the definition of irony :lmao

[GAustex]

Miss Cleo is shameless
Pomp that old drunk senile POS still

[offset formation]

Damn homie…….primo is gone but still living rent free�������� You may need to take some time away from the keyboard to deal with some trauma!

You sure you're doing OK? You and a couple others spent most of the last year + looking down your nose at most of us for questioning the call to draft him at 12 and telling us we were shortsighted meanies that had poor BBIQ not to see Primo's obvious wizardry running PG.

Well I say to each of you now, even the ones that weren't as judgmental as you, come get your plate of crow.

[KingKev]

this thread will never get old. Add drafting Primo to the longass list

Yep.

There may or may not be a bigger story behind this but the trend remains PATFO is mortal.

Can’t win them all but need to strive for more wins than losses and when you do fail keep those failures small. I can’t honestly sit here and say PATFO’s last 5 years abide by those terms.

[Mugen]

:lmao Hits keep coming for the worst FO in the league these last 8 years

[RC_Drunkford]

Damn homie…….primo is gone but still living rent free�������� You may need to take some time away from the keyboard to deal with some trauma!

you good Miss Cleo? You wanna join your boy Primo at the mental health facility? :lmao

[Atl Spur]

Just for clarification, which primo “sniffer “ vouched for him regarding his character? His basketball ability is what we were high on. So please stop with the moving the goal post / change of narrative bs.

[GAustex]

BS you did all over place
Now u straight up lying

[RC_Drunkford]

downward spiral :lol

[Jordan Jackson]

downward spiral :lol

Slow painful death tbh

All they need to do now is win 30 games and miss the play-in per par.

To be fair - I think they’ve lost a lot of quality front office personnel over the years to other teams around the league. Might not be much left upstairs anymore.

[RC_Drunkford]

I thought this era was over, but nope

[SayTown]

Pop is still actively looking for the next Matt Bonner and won't retire until he finds him.

[The Truth #6]

I'm ok bringing in Becky next year. Let Pop hang around, brain storm big picture stuff. Hard to say with Pop what his goal and game plan is for this. The five-year contract could be real, or just something to make it seem like he's not going anywhere until he decides that he wants to.

[poopbox]

I'm ok bringing in Becky next year. Let Pop hang around, brain storm big picture stuff. Hard to say with Pop what his goal and game plan is for this. The five-year contract could be real, or just something to make it seem like he's not going anywhere until he decides that he wants to.

What big brain stuff? How to sign the next bryn forbes :rollin

[scott]

I'm ok bringing in Becky next year. Let Pop hang around, brain storm big picture stuff. Hard to say with Pop what his goal and game plan is for this. The five-year contract could be real, or just something to make it seem like he's not going anywhere until he decides that he wants to.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought Pop's deal was structured like a series of five 1-year deals with a Coach option? Did I just make this up in my brain?

I'd be all for this plan above. Hopefully Becky is the successor in waiting. It is in the franchise's effort for Pop to remain a part of the franchise after he retires, IMO, even if only in a figurehead/part-time capacity.

[The Truth #6]

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought Pop's deal was structured like a series of five 1-year deals with a Coach option? Did I just make this up in my brain?

I'd be all for this plan above. Hopefully Becky is the successor in waiting. It is in the franchise's effort for Pop to remain a part of the franchise after he retires, IMO, even if only in a figurehead/part-time capacity.

I will defer to you on the contract details, I only heard that it was a 5-year deal, I don't know details more than that. What you describe makes perfect sense also.

[Leetonidas]

2015/2016:

Drafting Nikola Milutinov instead of Larry Nance, Cedi Osman, etc.
Playing Boris Diaw and David West together all year so they can get outrebounded instead of staggering them with Duncan/Aldridge
Cutting Rasual Butler (R.I.P.) instead of Matt Bonner, cause Matt Bonner makes better sandwiches (which didn't have an effect on the results of that season at all to be fair)
Playing Kyle Anderson before Jonathon Simmons when Simmons was clearly the better player because of military pecking order


At least they finally fixed one mistake :cry

[Leetonidas]

tbh OP needs to update this list, there is plenty to add from 2019 to now :lol

[The Truth #6]

Según exploding. Halliburton exploding. Sigh...

[NASpurs]

- Making Rodman play point guard :lol

[objective]

Según exploding. Halliburton exploding. Sigh...

Jalen Johnson doing pretty good as the Atlanta starting power forward also

[RC_Drunkford]

tbh OP needs to update this list, there is plenty to add from 2019 to now :lol

several updates came during the Bryn Forbes era, but yeah it‘s been a while. How about:

-drafting a guy at 11 who can’t keep his dick in his pants over Sengun
-not signing a PG
-letting Sochan play PG
-not being able to have the right defensive schemes
-not being able to put together a starting line up with proper spacing since 2018

[scott]

I will defer to you on the contract details, I only heard that it was a 5-year deal, I don't know details more than that. What you describe makes perfect sense also.

Contract details for coaches aren't as available as player contracts, but Sportrac has it that the entire deal is non-guaranteed.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/greg-popovich-11748/

[TekXX]

I'm hopeful Pop is still HC because he's a nice guy and he's taking the rebuilding L's so a new guy or Becky can take the W's. So maybe give him 1 or 2 more years, longer than that and we still suck then Wemby will take his talents elsewhere that knows what it's doing.