What would be your long term strategy to get back in the title hunt?

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm seeing quite a lot of different perspectives in this forum, so I thought this topic deserves its own thread. Hopefully we can have a productive discussion. While some say we should blow it up and clean house, I would say keep Derozan, LA and Gay around to stay competitive and just keep stacking young talent under 25. A young core of Murray/White/Walker/Metu/Poetl/Bertans looks quite promising. The only thing we are really missing are 1 or better 2 SFs and maybe a 3-and-D SG a la Danny Green which PATFO might even be able to find without a draft pick. Additionally we got 2 first round picks for next years draft which could be packaged to move up.

I think key is definitely getting rid of Gasol and Mills contracts, that is probably the one thing we all agree on. Then use cap space to sign 3-and-D wings to pair with Derozan/Aldridge. I'd say internal development is the way to go and it's what the Spurs are best at. Pop should give all the young guys playing time. Lock all of them in on cheap long term contracts. At worst they can still be used as trade assets.

[WallyTiger]

:lobt2::tu

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I would say signing Kawhi Leonard to a free agent deal next summer would be a step in that direction.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I would say signing Kawhi Leonard to a free agent deal next summer would be a step in that direction.

:lmao

[WallyTiger]

will send to PATFO as soon as possible, hope they read it.

[RD2191]

I was thinking about this last night. Waiting out the Dubs seems to be like the best possible strategy. Although unless we attract a top tier free agent it might be a failing plan. Building through the draft would seem like the most realistic option but the problem there is the Spurs rarely have high draft picks. We can't build a contender with late 20s picks. Maybe try and move LMA and DD for a top pick? Although I'm not sure how realistic that would be. In conclusion, who the hell knows? :lol that's why RC gets paid the big bucks.

[RD2191]

By the way Spurs ain't winning a title with LMA and DD, them is just facts. :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

I was thinking about this last night. Waiting out the Dubs seems to be like the best possible strategy. Although unless we attract a top tier free agent it might be a failing plan. Building through the draft would seem like the most realistic option but the problem there is the Spurs rarely have high draft picks. We can't build a contender with late 20s picks. Maybe try and move LMA and DD for a top pick? Although I'm not sure how realistic that would be. In conclusion, who the hell knows? :lol that's why RC gets paid the big bucks.

They have 2 picks. I'd say if they can't sign a big time free agent (which they most likely can't sign) they might just take on one of those bad contracts due to the cap jump. Some type of reclamation project. Somebody that's overpaid, but Pop could plug in and still get decent value out of. And with that aquire a pick or 2 while moving Mills/Gasol. Just having 2 picks in the 20 range should be enough to move up to 15-18 where they might be able to find another diamond in the rough.

[RC_Drunkford]

By the way Spurs ain't winning a title with LMA and DD, them is just facts. :lol

if they had a legit #1 option while those are options 2 and 3 they could

[RD2191]

if they had a legit #1 option while those are options 2 and 3 they could

Assuming the warriors disband, otherwise hell no. :lol

[TDomination]

Good thread.

We need to attract one more star. That would go a long way to helping us.

But If we had completely healthy players this year it would be much easier to analyze certain things. Is Murray the future? Can white be an effective player? Does Walkers game translate to the nba level? But with these injuries were left guessing if those players will be good enough for us.

I really like our trio of gay DeRozan and Aldridge. But gay should be a bench guy, like manu.

The only positive I've seen so far this year with the unknowns is Forbes. If he can gain experience this year he may someone that fits better in the starting lineup with DeRozan leading the point. Then have Murray come off the bench to the lead the 2nd unit with gay. I wouldn't mind that as long as Forbes continues to improve like he has been.

I feel we have enough scorers, we need a defensive guy. Cunningham is our guy for right now but I wouldn't mind getting someone who struggles to score but can get it done in the defensive end and is a hustle player. Obviously if they were a 2 way player it would be better but they would be pricier.

We need to get rid of Mills. Someway, somehow. Knicks? Can you do us a favor and take him? Even if we got nothing back. I dont care this would be addition by subtraction. Sorry patty, I'll always love you for 2014 but you gots to go.

Pau is an old big man that could be serviceable if he was like the 3rd or 4th big man. I'm glad hes not starting. I'd rather crash and burn with poeltl. At least then we can see what we have and dont have with poeltl.

Belinelli is fine, although we need more defense for him to look okay. Otherwise he just adds to our lack of defense. And stop with the I'll advised shots. Play smart basketball. I'm okay him staying or leaving either way.

But I would go all out to try and find someone to trade with during the season. But make sure its Pau or mills your giving up. If you gotta include bertans, and some picks to get some wing players that can play some D then so be it.

I hate tanking. BUT I would think it would be a blessing in disguise if both DeRozan and Aldridge got hurt somehow. Then we just tank and not say were wasting a year of their prime. And then we get a lotto pick and get Murray back. Next year would look a lot more promising.

[Fusternino]

I agree that we keep LMA/DDR/Gay for the next 3 years (hope DDR opts-in with promise of another contract and sign Gay for 2 years with Early Bird rights after this season) in order to stay competitive. After this season, Murray will be healthy again and I think the Warriors will fall apart as I really think Klay's dad wants him to get a real contract with the Lakers and Durant will then go elsewhere. Kawhi will almost certainly go to the Clippers. I think we should keep Gasol for both years because there's already been a lot of roster turnover and he can mentor our young bigs. Next off-season, trade both picks and Forbes for a better pick so that we can draft a young, tall SF. De'Andre Hunter has been talked about as a possibility. Don't re-sign either Dante or Q-Pon and instead bring in Blossomgame and Milutinov. I think this seems likely considering Blossomgame is back in Austin-an informal agreement may be in place and if he can develop a 3-ball, he instantly becomes much more valuable. Next year's rotation would be:

Murray/DDR/pick/LMA/Gasol
White/Walker/Gay/Bertans/Poetl
Mills/Marco/Blossomgame/Metu/Milutinov

After the 2019-2020 season, you'd have to think that one of Poetl or Milutinov works out well enough to replace Gasol once he retires. Maybe also replace Marco and Bertans. In any case by the summer of 2020 our oldest player will be LMA (35) and we will need to do new contracts with Murray and Poeltl. Maybe Murray's injury lets us re-sign him on the cheap as was the case with Curry.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Tbh I think we were very freaking close this year before all the injuries hit. We have a point guard who is long and athletic and disruptive on defense and who also was hitting open shots. We have a shooting guard who is all offense and covers up for the lack of play-making from our point guard. We have an all star 4 who can slide to the 5. Make Rudy Gay our PF. We have a good bench with Lonnie Derrick Marco Bertans and if we can ever teach Poetl how to play basketball, he should be a good rim protector. We are just missing a SF and we have 2 drft picks to find one.

[SAGirl]

By the way Spurs ain't winning a title with LMA and DD, them is just facts. :lol
I'd have to agree.

To win a title they probably need to tank, they need a player that is not currently in this roster.

[sasaint]

By the way Spurs ain't winning a title with LMA and DD, them is just facts. :lol

DeMar could have a role on a title contending Spurs team. LMA will end up being an aging ring-chaser and possibly ring like DWest finally did with a stacked team that didn't really need him.

[ducks]

break durrants legs

actually gs will break down soon
they are not maxing klay and green IMO

[gambit1990]

sell the team to someone who would actually hold PATFO accountable tbh.

[ducks]

sell the team to someone who would actually hold PATFO accountable tbh.

other then gs what team has done more and won more titles recently then the spurs

murray looks great

someone in office said something that leonard got upset at
I do not think it was rc
that person could have or should have been fired
but it could have been something that leonard should have moved on

[phxspurfan]

The 5 Stages of Grief

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

[JPB]

Moving the team to Seattle

[JPB]

And bring Javtokas in already ffs.

[gambit1990]

i don’t see the spurs winning with la and demar either... they’re both second options.

[Spurs fever]

By the way Spurs ain't winning a title with LMA and DD, them is just facts. :lol What player that's obtainable do you think could get the Spurs back in the mix of things? Butler?

[sasaint]

sell the team to someone who would actually hold PATFO accountable tbh.

Yep.

[pad300]

Lets see, we've already made a hash of the previous 2 off-seasons.

.
2 years ago, the Mills contract - he's not a starter guy, so don't pay him like starter guy, The Pau contract - although the tea-leaves suggest that was a "opt out and we will take care of you deal", he should have got 18.3, 19.5 (partially guaranteed), rather than 16, 16, 16 (partially guaranteed). Not being sufficiently aggressive in the depressed FA market for my liking - a full MLE to lock down a good FA, (yeah, Rudy Gay would have been a good choice, or Tyreke Evans).
This year - Danny Green vs Mills as the Kawhi fill in (or not getting either Delon Wright or OG Anunoby back as well), Bertans over Anderson for essentially the same year to year money. (Yeah, people don't like Kyle - but Bertans is giving us 16 mpg, while Anderson is averaging 22, with a roster hole in front of Bertans: a desperate need for wing depth and defense. Which Anderson spent the previous year providing effectively, at 26.7 mpg vs 14.1). And again, Not being sufficiently aggressive in the depressed FA market for my liking - a full MLE to lock down a good FA, (again, Tyreke Evans), vs spending the money on Beli...


Ok, for the foreseeable future, the FA market is going to have money - not like the last 2 seasons, so to make useful noise, we would need caps space. Which isn't to likely without moving Pau and Mills.

But in the longer term, you generally need one of the top 5 players in the NBA to compete. (There is also a pretty much 1 to 1 correlation with a having a #1 to #3 overall on the roster, and the potential to win - Consider the last 20 years Durant (2nd pick, 2 rings), Lebron (1st, 4 rings), Bogut (1st, 1), Duncan (1st, 5), Chandler & Kidd (both 2nd, 1), Pau (3ed, 2), Celtics in 08 were an exception, Billups (3ed, 1 Also Darko 2nd, 1), Shaq (1st, 4), and in 1998, MJ (3ed, 6 going back to more than 20 years ago).) .

For the Spurs, that means draft picks (We have pursued players like in FA : Durant - Warriors, Chris Paul-Rockets, Lebron (prior to the Kawhi fiasco) - Lakers, back in the day we were in for Jason Kidd - back to NJ. It never seems to work though...). If this years team is as bad as I dread, we get a lottery pick this season, and should be sellers at the deadline... Unfortunately, the draft can be a crapshoot, so this may be a long project. Also, I think PATFO is looking at hanging them up soon, and won’t want to have a longer term rebuild project, so they will try to compete, thus tread-milling rather than rebuilding…

[sasaint]

I'm seeing quite a lot of different perspectives in this forum, so I thought this topic deserves its own thread. Hopefully we can have a productive discussion. While some say we should blow it up and clean house, I would say keep Derozan, LA and Gay around to stay competitive and just keep stacking young talent under 25. A young core of Murray/White/Walker/Metu/Poetl/Bertans looks quite promising. The only thing we are really missing are 1 or better 2 SFs and maybe a 3-and-D SG a la Danny Green which PATFO might even be able to find without a draft pick. Additionally we got 2 first round picks for next years draft which could be packaged to move up.

I think key is definitely getting rid of Gasol and Mills contracts, that is probably the one thing we all agree on. Then use cap space to sign 3-and-D wings to pair with Derozan/Aldridge. I'd say internal development is the way to go and it's what the Spurs are best at. Pop should give all the young guys playing time. Lock all of them in on cheap long term contracts. At worst they can still be used as trade assets.

The “young core” that you are betting on is unproven, except Bertans who is on his way to proving he belongs in Europe. This season we aren’t going anywhere anyway, so just ride it out with Pau and then get rid of him next off-season. Mills also isn’t going anywhere before next off-season. At that time, perhaps we could dump Pau and Patty without giving up too much else. Then, if a couple of the young guys have shown something we could be in a position to make some noise either through trade or FA signing.

[RD2191]

What player that's obtainable do you think could get the Spurs back in the mix of things? Butler?

Short of Anthony Davis I don't think there's a player that would move the needle much with our current roster. Butler would definitely push us to a WCF berth though.

[r0drig0lac]

I'm seeing quite a lot of different perspectives in this forum, so I thought this topic deserves its own thread. Hopefully we can have a productive discussion. While some say we should blow it up and clean house, I would say keep Derozan, LA and Gay around to stay competitive and just keep stacking young talent under 25. A young core of Murray/White/Walker/Metu/Poetl/Bertans looks quite promising. The only thing we are really missing are 1 or better 2 SFs and maybe a 3-and-D SG a la Danny Green which PATFO might even be able to find without a draft pick. Additionally we got 2 first round picks for next years draft which could be packaged to move up.

I think key is definitely getting rid of Gasol and Mills contracts, that is probably the one thing we all agree on. Then use cap space to sign 3-and-D wings to pair with Derozan/Aldridge. I'd say internal development is the way to go and it's what the Spurs are best at. Pop should give all the young guys playing time. Lock all of them in on cheap long term contracts. At worst they can still be used as trade assets.

basically what I would do too, maybe I would have gone after Hanga and Dangubic in this season of big changes, but your plan is okay

[sasaint]

They have 2 picks. I'd say if they can't sign a big time free agent (which they most likely can't sign) they might just take on one of those bad contracts due to the cap jump. Some type of reclamation project. Somebody that's overpaid, but Pop could plug in and still get decent value out of. And with that aquire a pick or 2 while moving Mills/Gasol. Just having 2 picks in the 20 range should be enough to move up to 15-18 where they might be able to find another diamond in the rough.

It has always been conventional wisdom that we could not sign a big-time FA because of the location of the team in small market, back water SA. I have never been 100% confident that was the whole truth, but I wonder how much impact PATFO have had. Who wants to enlist in the army except committed old ring-chasers? Especially now I suspect many FAs will look upon PATFO as a year-to-year question mark. That likely adds an element of uncertainty that substantially devalues SA in the FA market.

[BackHome]

What we need to to this season:
1. Tank - so far so good
2. Find out if Métu is a NBA player and at what position SF or PF?
3. Find out if White can stay healthy and is he a Backup PG?
4. Hold out Walker until her is 200% healthy both knees
5. Is Poodle an NBA player for us? “ I don’t think he is”

Off Season:
1. Try to trade your Mills and Gasol
2. Let Cunningham and Q. go
3. Try and sign a legit 3rd starting caliber player.
4. If Poodle doesn’t work out trade and bring in Nikola

Draft:
This will be the most important draft in a long time based on what our record could be I am thinking 10 to 18 . Am hoping Toronto takes a tumble and we get a pick in the 21 to 25 range.

[RC_Drunkford]

It has always been conventional wisdom that we could not sign a big-time FA because of the location of the team in small market, back water SA. I have never been 100% confident that was the whole truth, but I wonder how much impact PATFO have had. Who wants to enlist in the army except committed old ring-chasers? Especially now I suspect many FAs will look upon PATFO as a year-to-year question mark. That likely adds an element of uncertainty that substantially devalues SA in the FA market.

As much as people praise Popovich, nobody seems to be wanting to play for him. At least no superstars

[kaji157]

I'm seeing quite a lot of different perspectives in this forum, so I thought this topic deserves its own thread. Hopefully we can have a productive discussion. While some say we should blow it up and clean house, I would say keep Derozan, LA and Gay around to stay competitive and just keep stacking young talent under 25. A young core of Murray/White/Walker/Metu/Poetl/Bertans looks quite promising. The only thing we are really missing are 1 or better 2 SFs and maybe a 3-and-D SG a la Danny Green which PATFO might even be able to find without a draft pick. Additionally we got 2 first round picks for next years draft which could be packaged to move up.

I think key is definitely getting rid of Gasol and Mills contracts, that is probably the one thing we all agree on. Then use cap space to sign 3-and-D wings to pair with Derozan/Aldridge. I'd say internal development is the way to go and it's what the Spurs are best at. Pop should give all the young guys playing time. Lock all of them in on cheap long term contracts. At worst they can still be used as trade assets.

I think we are pretty much set, once Murray, Lonnie and white are back all you need to do is to go hard at the best sg/sf defender you can get.
I wouldn't "get rid" of Patty and Gasol contacts as of now unless someone ask for them, because in order to trade them out you'll most likely have to give something for nothing.
I would wait till everyone's back and use our picks and maybe Poetl (if he shows he belongs to the NBA) or Bertans to go for that defender we miss.

A core of Murray, LMA and DD, plus gay as 6th man should be enough to build around.
And the thought of transforming Mills and Gasol in a third star is delusional.

[sasaint]

As much as people praise Popovich, nobody seems to be wanting to play for him. At least no superstars

True. You also have to factor in a FAs perceived compatability with Spurs culture. I honestly doubt that PATFO has been very interested in many high-profile FAs through the years. Plus the Spurs have almost never had much cap space. Not knowing how much longer he will be here adds an element of uncertainty that can only hurt the Spurs more.

[Spurs Homer]

Just a thought - before everyone plays GM and gets really involved:

The NBA is not going to be about DEFENSE for a few years.

No defense and a lot of gunning at will so whichever team wins rings in the next few years will be an offensive juggernaut.

I would not invest in any Bruce Bowens or Kawhi's for a few years.
Maybe when the cycle runs out and something happens in the league where DEFENSE is suddenly needed - then we might go back to the Pistons bad boys or the bulls/knicks brawls again.

[JeffDuncan]

Change coaches. At the end of the season, which can't come too soon, hand Pop the gold watch, give him a firm handshake, look him in the eye, and tell him, "Mah nigga, you are free!"

Free coach Pop from the cruel chains of having to coach this team.

Free Coach Pop! Free Coach Pop!

[RC_Drunkford]

Just a thought - before everyone plays GM and gets really involved:

The NBA is not going to be about DEFENSE for a few years.

No defense and a lot of gunning at will so whichever team wins rings in the next few years will be an offensive juggernaut.

I would not invest in any Bruce Bowens or Kawhi's for a few years.
Maybe when the cycle runs out and something happens in the league where DEFENSE is suddenly needed - then we might go back to the Pistons bad boys or the bulls/knicks brawls again.

I actually think the total opposite. There are quite a lot of teams who can score. But especially in the Playoffs when physicality increases, getting stops will be crucial. And finding a way to defend effectively with these ridiculous whistles might be the new coaching innovation which can catapult a team to contender status.

[r0drig0lac]

Just a thought - before everyone plays GM and gets really involved:

The NBA is not going to be about DEFENSE for a few years.

No defense and a lot of gunning at will so whichever team wins rings in the next few years will be an offensive juggernaut.

I would not invest in any Bruce Bowens or Kawhi's for a few years.
Maybe when the cycle runs out and something happens in the league where DEFENSE is suddenly needed - then we might go back to the Pistons bad boys or the bulls/knicks brawls again.

I see the opposite, perimeter defenders will be even more valuable, you may still have at least one offensively challenged player on the team if he is a defensive stud (Roberson imo), players who can defend three positions will be the most valuable pieces to have on their team in this era

[Chinook]

The single-best way to get back into the title hunt would be for the team to tank and get lucky by picking a superstar/RoY with their lottery pick then adding him to Murray, Walker, DeRozan and LMA.

Along those lines:

The only pick the Spurs should absolutely try to protect is the current year. Both the Toronto pick and the 2020 pick are on the table.

I'd trade Mills and Gasol with the Toronto pick to Cleveland for Tristan Thompson and Kyle Korver. The total salary $47 Million in committed salary from Cleveland for $60 Million for SA. If Cleveland rejects it, be willing to go for JR Smith instead. That'll put the Spurs at $54 Million, making it a financial win for the Cavs to make up for the poor financial structure.

Then you trade Beli, Bertans and Forbes for expiring deals (all should have enough value to at least get that if not get assets back).

Draft the best forward available on what is hopefully a 20s pick (for reasons to be explained in a bit).

Then in 2019, you trade the 2020 pick and Milutinov to some team like ATL to dump Thompson.

You do all that, renounce cap holds and stretch Korver, and the Spurs end up with a with a roster of:

Murray, White
DeRozan, Walker
Drafted Forward
Metu
Aldridge, Poeltl

Depending on how well DeRozan and Aldridge perform this year, that roster can seem enticing. They could also sacrifice Metu to make it work with a much higher pick. In any event, here's the Capulator scenario:


http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=7361425875bd362cb9a039500722898

[RC_Drunkford]

The single-best way to get back into the title hunt would be for the team to tank and get lucky by picking a superstar/RoY with their lottery pick then adding him to Murray, Walker, DeRozan and LMA.

Along those lines:

The only pick the Spurs should absolutely try to protect is the current year. Both the Toronto pick and the 2020 pick are on the table.

I'd trade Mills and Gasol with the Toronto pick to Cleveland for Tristan Thompson and Kyle Korver. The total salary $47 Million in committed salary from Cleveland for $60 Million for SA. If Cleveland rejects it, be willing to go for JR Smith instead. That'll put the Spurs at $54 Million, making it a financial win for the Cavs to make up for the poor financial structure.

Then you trade Beli, Bertans and Forbes for expiring deals (all should have enough value to at least get that if not get assets back).

Draft the best forward available on what is hopefully a 20s pick (for reasons to be explained in a bit).

Then in 2019, you trade the 2020 pick and Milutinov to some team like ATL to dump Thompson.

You do all that, renounce cap holds and stretch Korver, and the Spurs end up with a with a roster of:

Murray, White
DeRozan, Walker
Drafted Forward
Metu
Aldridge, Poeltl

Depending on how well DeRozan and Aldridge perform this year, that roster can seem enticing. They could also sacrifice Metu to make it work with a much higher pick. In any event, here's the Capulator scenario:


http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=7361425875bd362cb9a039500722898

so that would be your way of moving Pau and Patty while creating cap space if I'm not mistaken? The thing is who could we sign that moves the needle? The only star player who I think might at least consider to come over is Porzingis and he doesn't make sense with Aldridge on the roster. Maybe Demar might be able to recruit somebody else? I just don't see it, especially with Pop retiring soon.

[picnroll]

No need to move Gasol or $50Mills. Spurs will be lottery quality until they’re contracts are history and a littlevsalary cap won’t do anything. Spurs need to tank until another Duncan comes along, drafted or signed because they have the players to attract him.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't know if it's realistic, but what if we trade Pau and Mills to the Hornets for Batum, Parker and the Hornets pick?

We get a little more salary back and can stretch Parker if he decides to hang it up so he can retire a Spur. We take on the Batum contract since 19/20 will be another lost season anyway. Our salary cap stays almost the same, but at least we get a serviceable 3-and-D wing that can start, fits the culture and plays well with Lamarcus. In addition to that we get the Hornets pick which would probably be in the 9-15 range. Combine that with the Toronto and our own pick and we could move up into the Top 5 and draft a future star SF.

The Hornets shred about 13 million of salary and can waive Gasol's partially guaranteed. Mills fills out the back up PG role in Charlotte and plays for Borrego.

I mean we could even send the Toronto or our own pick with them to Charlotte and we could still move up with the other pick and the Hornets pick together. This is also a scenario that might work with other teams who are trying to open up cap space.

Batum likely opts in in 2020, but then his deal would be expiring and you would be able to move it to a team that wants to open up cap space again. LA and Demar's contract would also expire in 2021 which opens up cap room of 78 million in the 2021 offseason where you could go after Giannis

[sananspursfan21]

RC! Glad to see you finally signed up!

Here’s mine:

Get Dejounte’s and Walker’s buy in so they’ll take the hometown discount throughout their careers, try to trade for a protected lottery pick in a year projected to produce a great crop of talent, keep DeRozan as “grandpa juice” aire apparent, find a solid, mobile Center as a defensive specialist, and give the “past their prime” stars who might ring chase a reason to take the vet minimum and help some brothas out.

Its a glass pipe dream, but my plan nonetheless. I dunno, works in 2k fairly well.

[TD 21]

No disrespect intended, but this is not even worthy of discussion until they luck into another superstar. In this league, especially in this era, you don't have a conceivable path to championship contention without one.

This organization has been fortunate to have one for the better part of the past 29 seasons, but the reality is there's usually about 10 at a given time, so they're long overdue to not have one for an extended time. The path they've chosen to take also decreases the odds.

[blizz]

Tank this season.

[objective]

No disrespect intended, but this is not even worthy of discussion until they luck into another superstar. In this league, especially in this era, you don't have a conceivable path to championship contention without one.

This organization has been fortunate to have one for the better part of the past 29 seasons, but the reality is there's usually about 10 at a given time, so they're long overdue to not have one for an extended time. The path they've chosen to take also decreases the odds.

That's fair.

IF LMA got injured and sat out the season with something that wouldn't linger long term, they would lose games pretty hard. Probably bottom 10 in the league with this defense, or worse. Given the evened out lottery odds, they could get a top 4 pick. IF that top 4 pick worked out somehow into a superstar, maybe they could get back into theoretical contention in a couple of years if DeRozan didn't fall off, LMA didn't fall off, Murray exploded, etc. But that's a whole lot of IFs.

[TDMVPDPOY]

be a bit late to be tanking, when theres a few teams already ahead of the curve with the tanking

fkn league needs to do something man...

[skin27]

Trade for a top 5 pick..remember aldridge came here to win a title not to play for a rebuilding team..like I said if they want to be a contender again they should trade for a top 5 pick or some how they get lucky just like how they got kawhi..

[SpursGenius]

Popobitch retires asap

[Chinook]

so that would be your way of moving Pau and Patty while creating cap space if I'm not mistaken? The thing is who could we sign that moves the needle? The only star player who I think might at least consider to come over is Porzingis and he doesn't make sense with Aldridge on the roster. Maybe Demar might be able to recruit somebody else? I just don't see it, especially with Pop retiring soon.

I don't think the team is as unattractive as they were in 2015. Aldridge and DeRozan are getting older, but they are both still seen as players in their prime. Murray has the air of being the next big thing. I don't necessarily see them landing KD, Butler, Irving or Kawhi (most of those are obvious), but if Klay for example wants to go somewhere else, I don't think the Spurs will be very far down the list. Walker, Middleton, Harris, Barnes. There are players out there who could be had, and some of them might be gettable to a decent chunk less than a max slot. Might be able to save a guy like Beli, Bertans or Forbes or allow for the team to be bad enough this year to get a high lottery pick.

Something like this:

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=11491293865bd402985d773137789064

Could also split up money into solid role-players to put around a starting unit of Murray, Walker, DeRozan, Rookie, Aldridge

[venitian navigator]

The god draft was the past one...with al least six/seven clear potential all stars in the near future (Ayton, Bagley, Doncic, Jackson, Young, Bamba...maybe Porter). If its true we were offered on draft night some of the top three, then I frankly think we could have missed our future...
As of now, our hope is that we found one to three a diamonds in the rough with White, Walker, Murray, Poeltl and Metu...but the outcome till now is just an unlucky one 'cause injuries. The jury will be out in any case for at least two years.
One risky move I'll try is to play Bertans as a shooting guard on offense and as a point guard on defense.
His main quality, apart shooting, is that he' a agile and can run the court extremely well. So transition defense and offense shouldn't be a problem. Defensively, in half court defense, he can't be worse than Mills and on offense he has an ovbvious size advantage over quite every opponent and, more, he's good at using screens.
If this pans out, considering that for this season our real point guards will be (or should be) DDR and White (once he came back), we could have found a new starter and a good third weapon...and maybe a first step for a team able to be back on the title hunt.

[JeffDuncan]

... but if Klay for example wants to go somewhere else, I don't think the Spurs will be very far down the list.

The Lakers will be madly after Klay T. Bribes, death threats, and suspicious packages are not out of the question. Just mentioning that.


There are players out there who could be had, ...

No doubt. There are players available now, unemployed, who would be better than some of what the Spurs have.

What's the trade status of Bertans? I mean, can he be moved now? He should be worth a journeyman point guard.

We don't want to keep Ferrari or Forbes. Defense. Is the word.

Maybe Forbes will continue to develop, as a shooting 2, until he's seriously tradeable for a decent wing. Hope so.


... Could also split up money into solid role-players to put around a starting unit of Murray, Walker, DeRozan, Rookie, Aldridge

Is that in order? DDR at the 3? Or just a list? DDR can't play 3.

[Chinook]

The Lakers will be madly after Klay T. Bribes, death threats, and suspicious packages are not out of the question. Just mentioning that.

Not sure Klay cares about joining Lebron. LAL is going to put the hard sell on him and all the other free agents, but I'm skeptical that they'll be all that successful.


What's the trade status of Bertans? I mean, can he be moved now? He should be worth a journeyman point guard.

Bert can't be traded until 1/15. Same with Forbes. Beli can be traded a month earlier. All of those guys would have to be dealt toward the deadline when teams are looking for a little bit extra to make a playoff push.


Is that in order? DDR at the 3? Or just a list? DDR can't play 3.

It's a possible lineup given the "core" guys on the roster. I think DeRozan can totally play the three, especially given the current climate where most of the elite SFs are playing PF right now.

[Rick Von Braun]

Lots of good ideas in this thread. Some food for thought:

- High draft picks: Parker was 28th, Manu 57th, 2 HOFers. So while improbable to find jewels in high draft picks, it is not impossible, no need to tank yet.

- TBH, the best move for the Spurs would be to move the team to the East. The West has too much star power, and the imbalance has been strongly in place for more than 20 years now. I am sick of hearing the NBA corporate line that things will correct themselves, keep the traditions, etc. Fuck it, since 1998/1999 (and many argue even before this) the East-West imbalance has not been corrected, and it will not for the foreseeable future. Get rid of most of the pre-season games, add 5 games to the schedule and play every other team 3 times during the year for 87 games. Sort all teams by general standing position and be ready to battle in the playoffs. With modern charter travel, this is doable. If you want to keep the East-West All Star useless weekend, so be it, I don't care. Fuck it, get it done.

- Gasol/Mills contracts must be moved, there seem to be consensus here. The onus is on the young players to show they can live up to their potential, specially Murray. I am not convinced by any of them yet, and injuries do not help.

- I agree that Bertrans is closer to Europe than the NBA nowdays. He seems to be 2c short of a buck. Not that he is dumb or anything, but rather that he is not physical or mentally strong enough to take it to the next level, he only has shown glimpses.

- No one is going to trade with the Spurs for valuable players and get our garbage. That is the reality... trades would be lateral moves at best. I agree the draft is the way to go to rebuild the team. San Antonio is simply too small of a market to be attractive to big name players, this is just a fact. I think we were very lucky to have both Parker and Manu playing for the Spurs with relatively cheap contracts, specially the latter. Manu was a steal, a max player in almost any other team in the league. If you don't believe it, remember the Beard as a sixth man in OKC.

- The next couple of years are going to be rough, so Spurs' fans better develop a thicker skin. You are going to realize very soon that the Spurs had an incredible historic run for more than 20 years, and those times are now gone.

[JeffDuncan]

Not sure Klay cares about joining Lebron. ...

Right. Especially not if the LeBron team is still the Los Angeles Dumpsters at that time.


Bert can't be traded until 1/15. Same with Forbes. Beli can be traded a month earlier. All of those guys would have to be dealt toward the deadline when teams are looking for a little bit extra to make a playoff push.

I'd keep Forbes for the rest of the year because the nasty injury situation at guard has scared me. We need a defensive wing more than Beli or Bertans I think. Sure, it's a blistering year for scoring, but scores are already starting to come back down, and there are lots of complaints about the touchy touchy foul calling. I think D will be back, as a respectable thing, in the second half, if not even sooner.


... I think DeRozan can totally play the three, especially given the current climate where most of the elite SFs are playing PF right now.

Nah. It's that problem that he has a big red D with a diagonal line through it tattooed on his forehead. Gotta have some kind of defense from the 3 position.

Heck, I'd try DDR as the starting point guard long before I'd put him at the 3. Forbes at the starting 2.

Y'know, I'd almost try Murray at the 3 when he comes back, at least in one preseason game. He's way too light, but he plays tough D and he hits the boards like a maniac. As long as we're throwing ideas around.

[JeffDuncan]

... Gasol/Mills contracts must be moved, there seem to be consensus here.

"Consensus" is a delicate way to put it. It's not quite at the point where the screaming mob that wants to hang them has to be held back by a police cordon, but close.


No one is going to trade with the Spurs for valuable players and get our garbage. That is the reality... trades would be lateral moves at best. ...

Unless there's some team with which the Spurs can make a financially beneficial arrangement in which the players are virtually irrelevant. Tricky.


San Antonio is simply too small of a market to be attractive to big name players, this is just a fact.

That "fact" is bs. It's a tired old excuse for managerial incompetence. Good players will go where:

1) They have a good chance to win.

2) The pay is good.

3) They can turn all the way around without seeing a horse's rear end in every direction they look.


The next couple of years are going to be rough, ...

And a helluva lot rougher than they ever should have been or needed to be.

[ElNono]

https://us-wotp.wgcdn.co/dcont/fb/image/pudel_tank_only_338.png

[ElNono]

Bringing back Parker next season would be a great way to start tanking, tbh...

[tbdog]

This team was not built around the DD trade. It was built with the intention of Leonard coming back. The Spurs were still trying to sort things with Leonard. He was traded on the 19th (19 days after free agency commence). You can argue that not dealing Leonard on draft night was the incorrect move however, it is unsure what offers were on the table and if any of them were better than the one the Spurs currently got.

The Spurs problem the last 2 seasons was 3 point shooting. Getting Beli was the right thing to do. Re-upping Bertans was the correct thing to do. Forbes was questionable but it worked out well for what his is worth and doing with his shooting. Letting Parker go for White was all the correct moves to make.

Murray/Green/Leonard/Gay/LMA was the defense lineup that was going to go the distance. The Spurs believed Murray was ready for the next step. Gay was healthy. They had shooters. That was the team Bufford had in mind. But Leonard hate for the Spurs was too much and the Spurs got what they felt was the best deal that could get, DD. All of a sudden, there were questions of if DD and Murray could work. DD defense would not work with Mills or Beli starting. This is not the team Bufford had in mind but the team they were forced to have. Then the injuries occurred and now it was forced upon Pop to play Mill, Beli, Forbes along with DD, Bertans etc. It was not the plan.

The point is, next season we should get a better direction of what this team is capable of, rather than judging what team is now, which is just random puzzle pieces.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't think the team is as unattractive as they were in 2015. Aldridge and DeRozan are getting older, but they are both still seen as players in their prime. Murray has the air of being the next big thing. I don't necessarily see them landing KD, Butler, Irving or Kawhi (most of those are obvious), but if Klay for example wants to go somewhere else, I don't think the Spurs will be very far down the list. Walker, Middleton, Harris, Barnes. There are players out there who could be had, and some of them might be gettable to a decent chunk less than a max slot. Might be able to save a guy like Beli, Bertans or Forbes or allow for the team to be bad enough this year to get a high lottery pick.

Something like this:

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=11491293865bd402985d773137789064

Could also split up money into solid role-players to put around a starting unit of Murray, Walker, DeRozan, Rookie, Aldridge


I see what you did there, but I think we should go with younger players in general. Stanley Johnson should be available for cheap. Was also thinking about Middleton, Harris or even making a run at Porzingis. I don't know if the Spurs will be able to sign them though, cause about half the NBA is free agents next year and there are a lot of teams with a lot of cap room. In general, there are a lot of Spursy players free agents next offseason, especially wings. Guys like Ariza, Millsap, Carroll, Danny Green, Bradley, Wes Matthews, Pat Beverly, etc. Some of them would probably be available for a very reasonable price, so you could assemble a nice supporting cast for Derozan/Aldridge.

I think the Spurs could definitely free up a decent amount of cap space cause Bertans and Belinelli's contract are easy to move with Mills and Gasol. Other than that, I still think we could take on a bad contract just to get a lottery pick and either move up in the draft or use it in a trade to get a 3rd star. Possibilities are definitely out there to improve the team, I just hope the Spurs will be very aggressive in doing so. Bottom line is they have to move both Gasol and Mills.

I would do something like this:



Trade Pau to the Bulls for Rob Lo's expiring (which makes a lot of sense for both teams tbh)
Trade Mills and Bertans for Iman Shumpert and Yogi Ferrell expiring (attach Toronto pick if you have to)
Trade Belinelli to Charlotte for Tony Parker and a 2nd rounder, waive Parker, then stretch his contract



Not only does this give us cap room for next year, we get a C that can play well with LA, a 3-and-D player and we get our vet PG back. For 2019



let Rudy Gay walk
Trade both 1st rounders to move up in the draft and draft a SF.
Then sign Middleton, Millsap, Stanley Johnson. Might have to trade Forbes to sign Johnson, but it could also work while keeping him.
Fill out the rest of the roster with vets on minimum deals like Tyson Chandler, Dante Cunningham, etc.
If Huestis works out he's the 3rd PG, otherwise get a vet for the min


http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=8046255315bd486aa887ad342119187

LA/Poetl/Chandler
Millsap/Cunningham/Metu
Middleton/Johnson/Rookie
Derozan/Walker/Forbes
Murray/White/Huestis

I think that's a roster that can go far and has a lot of defenders. Players like Middleton, Millsap and Chandler would give this team that classic Spurs character and grit, while also improving the defense tremendously.
Johnson and a rookie would give us 2 SFs to develop who are on the timeline of our young generation.

[r0drig0lac]

Lots of good ideas in this thread. Some food for thought:

- High draft picks: Parker was 28th, Manu 57th, 2 HOFers. So while improbable to find jewels in high draft picks, it is not impossible, no need to tank yet.

- TBH, the best move for the Spurs would be to move the team to the East. The West has too much star power, and the imbalance has been strongly in place for more than 20 years now. I am sick of hearing the NBA corporate line that things will correct themselves, keep the traditions, etc. Fuck it, since 1998/1999 (and many argue even before this) the East-West imbalance has not been corrected, and it will not for the foreseeable future. Get rid of most of the pre-season games, add 5 games to the schedule and play every other team 3 times during the year for 87 games. Sort all teams by general standing position and be ready to battle in the playoffs. With modern charter travel, this is doable. If you want to keep the East-West All Star useless weekend, so be it, I don't care. Fuck it, get it done.

- Gasol/Mills contracts must be moved, there seem to be consensus here. The onus is on the young players to show they can live up to their potential, specially Murray. I am not convinced by any of them yet, and injuries do not help.

- I agree that Bertrans is closer to Europe than the NBA nowdays. He seems to be 2c short of a buck. Not that he is dumb or anything, but rather that he is not physical or mentally strong enough to take it to the next level, he only has shown glimpses.

- No one is going to trade with the Spurs for valuable players and get our garbage. That is the reality... trades would be lateral moves at best. I agree the draft is the way to go to rebuild the team. San Antonio is simply too small of a market to be attractive to big name players, this is just a fact. I think we were very lucky to have both Parker and Manu playing for the Spurs with relatively cheap contracts, specially the latter. Manu was a steal, a max player in almost any other team in the league. If you don't believe it, remember the Beard as a sixth man in OKC.

- The next couple of years are going to be rough, so Spurs' fans better develop a thicker skin. You are going to realize very soon that the Spurs had an incredible historic run for more than 20 years, and those times are now gone.

with due respect I do not understand that kind of comment, I do not give a shit about the other teams or about the 20 year run (Duncan was the ONLY reason, that this is clear), I want the spurs always be among the best teams of the league, if that is not possible, at least do not cause self damage with ridiculous contracts like Pau and Mills, mistakes should and will be pointed out ALWAYS

[dbestpro]

The quickest way is to go all defense. Forget the rule book and play defense like its the 90s. Force the refs to call 100 fouls a game if you have to. They will eventually ease up just for the sake of the game. When the playoffs come, you then get to play defense at a higher level than the rest of the teams are use to playing.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think a lot of people have a way too negative outlook. We have 2 All-Stars and some young guys. Derozan/Aldridge ain't enough to win a title, so if we can't get All-Stars we gotta get multiple players close to that level to build a supreme supporting cast and do it by committee while at the same time betting on internal improvement of our young guys. If we could get Middleton and Millsap, which is actually more realistic than signing a Jimmy Butler or Kyrie, our starting line up would be crazy good. Especially if Dejounte can improve. If Lonnie Walker can be anything close to Donovan Mitchell there is your 6th man. The moves just have to be totally on point and all the dead weight has to get cut.

[RC_Drunkford]

The quickest way is to go all defense. Forget the rule book and play defense like its the 90s. Force the refs to call 100 fouls a game if you have to. They will eventually ease up just for the sake of the game. When the playoffs come, you then get to play defense at a higher level than the rest of the teams are use to playing.

I was also thinking about that. Kinda like the grit and grind Grizzlies. Refs just knew it will get physical and allowed a lot more contact than usual.

[r0drig0lac]

The quickest way is to go all defense. Forget the rule book and play defense like its the 90s. Force the refs to call 100 fouls a game if you have to. They will eventually ease up just for the sake of the game. When the playoffs come, you then get to play defense at a higher level than the rest of the teams are use to playing.

i agree that the focus should be on defense (we have enough offense with Demar and Aldridge if the support roster is good enough), but I think the slower pace will work if the team has size. In a league where the backcourt need to get bigger (or more robust) and the frontcourt faster (and versatile defensively), Pop is simply doing the opposite, there is no reason to have players smaller than 6'4" in current league, if you do not have the talent to beat the best teams, you can attack them physically,but you need size and hardness to do it (especially in the perimeter)

[hitmantb]

In all honesty, this team will never win a championship again without getting lucky on someone of Tim Duncan's caliber ON TOP OF A 50 WINS ROSTER.

Pop is about to retire and the front office will likely go through major transition.

Most small market teams do not ever win it. Owners just won't go deep into luxury tax to construct a roster that can compete.

Spurs had zero chance until that 1997 year. Heck if the Spurs was a true lottery team, Duncan would have likely bolted in 2000 with no ring in hand.

[John B]

Package Murray with our 2 1st picks and Gasol’s expiring contract for Butler and filler now.
DD/Forbes/Butler/Gay/LMA
White/LW4/Dante/Bertans/Poeltl
Mills/Belli/Filler/Filler/Filler

[offset formation]

other then gs what team has done more and won more titles recently then the spurs

murray looks great

someone in office said something that leonard got upset at
I do not think it was rc
that person could have or should have been fired
but it could have been something that leonard should have moved on

gambit is trolling. Don't give him the pleasure.

[Ibleedslvrnblk]

Right now the league is in a go for broke at all costs (4 1st for Butler) mentality but it's going to set a lot of franchises back. Also a lot of old stars going to be leaving soon. It's turn over time for most teams.

This franchise is smart and I'm fine just having them being competitive and who knows for the next few years. Honestly if it's 5 years before this team is top three then so be it. Better than throwing it all in, losing and having 15+ years of dark days.

[gambit1990]

gambit is trolling. Don't give him the pleasure.
:lol i wasn’t. accountability is a good thing.

[Mr. Body]

LMA and DDR are good pieces, but almost everything else is junky. I like Gay, but he's a role-player, and the three young guards are promising. The team badly needs young, dynamic athletes who can learn how to score. Defense is good but secondary now. I don't see a way of infusing this team with the young talent needed, but it sure as hell doesn't help to have all of Murray, White, and Walker out. That's unbelievably bad luck. Walker looks like the prototype guard for this era.

But they need wings, too, and even big guys, if Poeltl is going to suck. I don't believe in Bertans at all. Unfortunately the team is close to treadmill mediocrity. I don't see many small fixes, much less a big one.

[BatManu20]

if they had a legit #1 option while those are options 2 and 3 they could

We cant afford another star (KD, Jimmy Butler, Klay) with two Max Contracts already on the books. And I’m 95% sure none of those 3 would sign to live in San Antonio regardless. Spurs don’t really have options.

[RC_Drunkford]

We cant afford another star (KD, Jimmy Butler, Klay) with two Max Contracts on the books. And I’m 95% sure none of those 3 would sign to live in San Antonio regardless. Spurs don’t really have options.

What about Middleton and Millsap? I think we could get them. No superstar but supreme role payers basically

[wildbill2u]

What player that's obtainable do you think could get the Spurs back in the mix of things? Butler?

I saw some film the other day on D. Rose. He really looked like he has recovered the quickness that made him a superstar. But with all the injuries, maybe he could be had from the Timberwolves. He is on their bench but I believe he could start for this current team with all the injuries. https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=cx6ZhDfU6lM

I know this isn't a long term solution, but we need to weather this year. Or just go ahead and tank.

[BatManu20]

What about Middleton and Millsap? I think we could get them. No superstar but supreme role payers basically

Middleton will also be too expensive, although I’d welcome him with open arms.

And Millsap, even though we’re only 5 games in, looks washed this season. Averaging 10 PPG on 37% shooting... yuck. Looked horrible against the Lakers the other night. Plus he’s almost 34. So maybe the Spurs will go after him :lol

[BackHome]

Tank I am all in but still want to see the young guys get the playing time Metu, White, Walker, Poodle. They all need to play and if they get better great if they suck well now you know we’re to go for free agents and draft.

[RC_Drunkford]

Middleton will also be too expensive, although I’d welcome him with open arms.

And Millsap, even though we’re only 5 games in, looks washed this season. Averaging 10 PPG on 37% shooting... yuck. Looked horrible against the Lakers the other night. Plus he’s almost 34. So maybe the Spurs will go after him :lol

Middleton is gettable if we can get him for 20-25 million. Millsap is focusing on defense and should get better as the season progresses cause he was injured for a while. As long as he can play defense I'd love to have him on the team. His age should make him gettable. Plus both are great defenders, can shoot the 3 and are good passers. And they would fit culturally. Let the young guys make another leap and get a SF in the draft and that team could go far. There are plenty of high level role players out there, especially 3-and-D guys. Spurs would just have to get rid of Gasol, Mills, Bertans, Belinelli and go after those.

Murray/DeRozan/Middleton/Millsap/LA would have length, quickness, athleticism, defense, shooting, rebounding, passing and 4 players who can go for 30 when they get hot. You could perfectly stagger them with the bench.

[wildbill2u]

How about a modified hang-out all-out tank> We play what we have until the trade deadline. By that time LMA and DeRozen will be convinced that there is no future here and be ready to move on if given the chance. We ask them if they are ready to be traded and treat them right. We look for draft picks rather than players an trade them ==and throw in Patty and Gasol if anyone will take them, even if we have to pay part of their salary for the remainder of their contracts.

Teams with a current potential who need skilled vets at their positions might be induced to give up some stashed draft picks. Or is this all a dream?

It will be interesting to see if any of us come up with the actual strategy of the FO/

[daslicer]

I think a lot of people have a way too negative outlook. We have 2 All-Stars and some young guys. Derozan/Aldridge ain't enough to win a title, so if we can't get All-Stars we gotta get multiple players close to that level to build a supreme supporting cast and do it by committee while at the same time betting on internal improvement of our young guys. If we could get Middleton and Millsap, which is actually more realistic than signing a Jimmy Butler or Kyrie, our starting line up would be crazy good. Especially if Dejounte can improve. If Lonnie Walker can be anything close to Donovan Mitchell there is your 6th man. The moves just have to be totally on point and all the dead weight has to get cut.

The season was going to be exciting up until the Spurs got dicked over with injuries to their 3 young prospects. I don't think the Spurs are title contenders if their young prospects are healthy but they would have been much better overall.

[sasaint]

How about a modified hang-out all-out tank> We play what we have until the trade deadline. By that time LMA and DeRozen will be convinced that there is no future here and be ready to move on if given the chance. We ask them if they are ready to be traded and treat them right. We look for draft picks rather than players an trade them ==and throw in Patty and Gasol if anyone will take them, even if we have to pay part of their salary for the remainder of their contracts.

Teams with a current potential who need skilled vets at their positions might be induced to give up some stashed draft picks. Or is this all a dream?

It will be interesting to see if any of us come up with the actual strategy of the FO/

Yes, this is all a dream. Go back to sleep; we will awaken you in a few years. Personnel moves like you propose are not ever a possibility for PATFO.

[gambit1990]

ariza and mcgee are free agents next summer.

murray/demar/ariza/la/mcgee

[Millennial_Messiah]

Move to Seattle


Maybe that could save a lot on my grandma's taxes on her 2400 square foot house by Sea World

[dbestpro]

Move to Seattle


Maybe that could save a lot on my grandma's taxes on her 2400 square foot house by Sea World

Yeah, the could fill the empty seats with homeless people and have shared needle night in Seattle.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Yeah, the could fill the empty seats with homeless people and have shared needle night in Seattle.

At least they could fill two to a seat in Seattle instead of needing 7.3 seats per person to accomodate those big ol' women in SA...


... that's my theory on Seattle, CenturyLink and the Legion of Boom, & I'm sticking to it.

[JeffDuncan]

At least they could fill two to a seat in Seattle instead of needing 7.3 seats per person to accomodate those big ol' women in SA...

Hey c'mon, that's just more to love.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Hey c'mon, that's just more to love.

Enjoy the grief/funeral expenses when your mutant balloon wife dies at age 39 from "natural" causes, and taking care of defective children... nah, I'll take the fit chicks.

[siraulo23]

be bad for a couple of years or so, collect assets

get lucky and draft a franchise player, spurs aint gonna be a real contender for a while

[skin27]

If they really want to rebuild as in total rebuild..they should trade LMA and derozan for top 5 pick..

[Spurtacular]

The 5 Stages of Grief

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

[Chinook]

Right. Especially not if the LeBron team is still the Los Angeles Dumpsters at that time.



I'd keep Forbes for the rest of the year because the nasty injury situation at guard has scared me. We need a defensive wing more than Beli or Bertans I think. Sure, it's a blistering year for scoring, but scores are already starting to come back down, and there are lots of complaints about the touchy touchy foul calling. I think D will be back, as a respectable thing, in the second half, if not even sooner.



Nah. It's that problem that he has a big red D with a diagonal line through it tattooed on his forehead. Gotta have some kind of defense from the 3 position.

Heck, I'd try DDR as the starting point guard long before I'd put him at the 3. Forbes at the starting 2.

Y'know, I'd almost try Murray at the 3 when he comes back, at least in one preseason game. He's way too light, but he plays tough D and he hits the boards like a maniac. As long as we're throwing ideas around.

Murray's a strong defender, and Walker should also be great. Get a strong defender at PF, and I don't see why DeRozan should have a huge defensive burden.

I think they'll keep all of those guys (Forbes, Beli and Bertans). But if I'm trying to win now, getting that max slot is more important than worry about the rotation this year. Plus they can always get bodies to play at guard, like Jerrad Bayless. We're talking about the Spurs getting a decent pick as part of this.

[Chinook]

I would do something like this:



Trade Pau to the Bulls for Rob Lo's expiring (which makes a lot of sense for both teams tbh)
Trade Mills and Bertans for Iman Shumpert and Yogi Ferrell expiring (attach Toronto pick if you have to)
Trade Belinelli to Charlotte for Tony Parker and a 2nd rounder, waive Parker, then stretch his contract


It doesn't make sense for Chicago to take Pau's guarantee for free.

If Vlade is willing to take Mills for the Toronto pick, you do it whether you're trying to win or not. He's not, though. He might take on Bertans for free/give a small asset, but they aren't hurting for guards or shooters, so they probably wouldn't value Mills beyond his contract.

Parker's deal next year isn't guaranteed. I'd not stretching him at all. Charlotte probably intends to keep Parker anyway. If they are going to want Beli, they'll have to legit pay for him some other way.


let Rudy Gay walk
Trade both 1st rounders to move up in the draft and draft a SF.
Then sign Middleton, Millsap, Stanley Johnson. Might have to trade Forbes to sign Johnson, but it could also work while keeping him.
Fill out the rest of the roster with vets on minimum deals like Tyson Chandler, Dante Cunningham, etc.
If Huestis works out he's the 3rd PG, otherwise get a vet for the min

Rudy probably does have to walk.

I'm really not up on ditching the Toronto pick so lightly. It doesn't have a ton of value for moving up (maybe two or three spots), but it has decent value as a potential flier. Unless that one great player is available, I'm holding onto it or using it in a separate deal.

They definitely wouldn't be able to sign all three of those guys. That is a really low contract for Middleton, and if Millsap can be had for that little of an APY, the contract is a very big risk to be worse than Pau's or Mills'. Johnson may end up being available for that cheap, but I think Detroit would match that deal without thought.

They'll have to do the min route regardless. I don't mind the ones you picked.

Huestis is not anything like PG. Dude has worse handles than Green. He's a wing with very little offensive skill. They'll need a real PG to play third fiddle.

[JeffDuncan]

Murray's a strong defender, and Walker should also be great. Get a strong defender at PF, and I don't see why DeRozan should have a huge defensive burden.

And DDR suddenly shows us some D in the Laker game.

But no, we cannot move our star player out of his usual position. Certainly not just on some theory of roster building. He stays right where he is. Because we know for a fact that works.

We get somebody else to play the SF.

Ah, I look at the Wizards struggling, and I look at Otto Porter. Just no way to get him, I suppose. It would be worth every tradeable asset in the house if he could be snagged. The Wiz are not using him correctly, and don't even seem to be trying to. Porter can shoot the 3, and the Wiz will run plays where they get him wide open in the corner - and they don't throw him the ball! Stupid. Also, he's only 25.



I think they'll keep all of those guys (Forbes, Beli and Bertans). ...

I think Bertans is on his way out. He got the start against the Lakers and did nothing useful with it. He's quickly running out of chances.

I like Ferrari, in some ways, but when the injured guys come back he's superfluous. Even PATFO should see that. Call me an optimist.

I'm good with Forbes, as long as he just keeps doing what he's doing.

Why is that Purrtle cat even here??

[DAF86]

Just get a good SF.

[RC_Drunkford]

[/LIST]

It doesn't make sense for Chicago to take Pau's guarantee for free.

If Vlade is willing to take Mills for the Toronto pick, you do it whether you're trying to win or not. He's not, though. He might take on Bertans for free/give a small asset, but they aren't hurting for guards or shooters, so they probably wouldn't value Mills beyond his contract.

Parker's deal next year isn't guaranteed. I'd not stretching him at all. Charlotte probably intends to keep Parker anyway. If they are going to want Beli, they'll have to legit pay for him some other way.



Rudy probably does have to walk.

I'm really not up on ditching the Toronto pick so lightly. It doesn't have a ton of value for moving up (maybe two or three spots), but it has decent value as a potential flier. Unless that one great player is available, I'm holding onto it or using it in a separate deal.

They definitely wouldn't be able to sign all three of those guys. That is a really low contract for Middleton, and if Millsap can be had for that little of an APY, the contract is a very big risk to be worse than Pau's or Mills'. Johnson may end up being available for that cheap, but I think Detroit would match that deal without thought.

They'll have to do the min route regardless. I don't mind the ones you picked.

Huestis is not anything like PG. Dude has worse handles than Green. He's a wing with very little offensive skill. They'll need a real PG to play third fiddle.

Good points. I'd really like for them to go for Middleton. Besides being a good shooter and defender, he's also a good passer and great as an offball player so he should be the perfect fit next to Demar. How much do you think would he cost? The main problem I see with getting him is that the Spurs had to get under the cap and I don't really see them doing that tbh. Other options for the wing should be players like Demarre Carrol, Trevor Ariza, or getting Danny Green back, although I think he'd be expensive with the way that he's playing in Toronto. Maybe even Tobias Harris or Hezonja, but I don't think they would help on D. Cheaper versions could be Jeff Green, Wilson Chandler, Shumpert, KCP or Wes Matthews.

I really think Pop will try to get Stanley Johnson, as they have been really high on him for years. I guess they see a little Kawhi in him. Not the superstar, but more what he projected to be when they drafted him. If Chip can get him to improve his shot, he'd fit right in and he's still very young. Might cost around 6-8 million per year depending on how he plays this season.

Millsap would also fit in well. I don't know what his price will be, but he got paid, declined some what and is older now, so there should be a possibility of getting him, maybe with a longer deal. I just guessed he might be able to still get 15 million.

Pau and Mills have to go for sure. I'd also ship out Belinelli and Bertans, as I think 7 million is too much for him, and would try to sign 2 starter level 3-and-D wings to play with Demar/LA. A SF in the draft, Stanley Johnson and maybe one of Carroll/Ariza/Green would look promising. I think attaching Belinelli/Bertans to Pau/Mills should also make it easier to move them.

What I'm curious about is, which trades would make sense to get us long term rotation players. Carroll should be gettable with his expiring. Phoenix also seems to be a potential trade partner with their depth at SF, they are one of the teams who could actually use Mills. There are plenty of good rotation pieces in the upcoming free agency and a lot of players who would fit the Spurs culture, so going under the cap still seems like the best option to me.

[Fusternino]

I still think this team should pursue Harrell in two years. Should still be cheap and it looks like he's improved his shooting touch.

[Fusternino]

And DDR suddenly shows us some D in the Laker game.

But no, we cannot move our star player out of his usual position. Certainly not just on some theory of roster building. He stays right where he is. Because we know for a fact that works.

We get somebody else to play the SF.

Ah, I look at the Wizards struggling, and I look at Otto Porter. Just no way to get him, I suppose. It would be worth every tradeable asset in the house if he could be snagged. The Wiz are not using him correctly, and don't even seem to be trying to. Porter can shoot the 3, and the Wiz will run plays where they get him wide open in the corner - and they don't throw him the ball! Stupid. Also, he's only 25.



I think Bertans is on his way out. He got the start against the Lakers and did nothing useful with it. He's quickly running out of chances.

I like Ferrari, in some ways, but when the injured guys come back he's superfluous. Even PATFO should see that. Call me an optimist.

I'm good with Forbes, as long as he just keeps doing what he's doing.

Why is that Purrtle cat even here??

Grunfield is a bottom 5 GM. I'm sure a fleece could be possible.

[RC_Drunkford]

We get somebody else to play the SF.

Ah, I look at the Wizards struggling, and I look at Otto Porter. Just no way to get him, I suppose. It would be worth every tradeable asset in the house if he could be snagged. The Wiz are not using him correctly, and don't even seem to be trying to. Porter can shoot the 3, and the Wiz will run plays where they get him wide open in the corner - and they don't throw him the ball! Stupid. Also, he's only 25.


I'm all in on the Otto Porter hype train. Just not sure if we have enough to offer. My Top 3 targets for SF (not factoring in superstars like Butler, etc.):

1. Otto Porter
2. Middleton
3. Carroll

[RC_Drunkford]

Would this work if we attach some picks or throw in Poetl?

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yd4elsfs

[Chinook]

And DDR suddenly shows us some D in the Laker game.

But no, we cannot move our star player out of his usual position. Certainly not just on some theory of roster building. He stays right where he is. Because we know for a fact that works.

DeRozan plays a ton of SF as it is, and that's without White and Walker and with counting Beli/DeRozan lineups as Beli playing the three. Once legit options at guard are available. he'll play the three more. He played the three plenty in Toronto. You don't arbitrarily bench Walker for the next two or three years simply because you don't want DeRozan to be the third-tallest player on the court for the Spurs. Lonnie is currently the team's best chance to dramatically increase their talent level. If he's playing well, he has to be in there as essentially the new Danny Green.


I think Bertans is on his way out. He got the start against the Lakers and did nothing useful with it. He's quickly running out of chances.

I like Ferrari, in some ways, but when the injured guys come back he's superfluous. Even PATFO should see that. Call me an optimist.

I'm good with Forbes, as long as he just keeps doing what he's doing.

Why is that Purrtle cat even here??

I don't think PATFO gave Bertans that much money with the idea that he was on thin ice. Again, they can't trade Davis until the middle of January. No reason to not use him if you're going to have him no matter what. If the Spurs plan to win, they won't move any of these three this year unless part of something like a Porter trade. They all provide spacing and scoring that you need to put around DMDR and LMA. I expect all three to remain in the rotation once White returns, though one of them would lose his spot if Walker can get a solid role. If we're specifically talking about flipping the team over to try to win as fast as possible, then moving role-players to free up cap and get an asset or two is a pretty solid step.

[Fusternino]

Talking with some Wizards fans now what they would want from us in terms of an OPJ trade.

[dbestpro]

DDR seems to be more the point forward. Better yet, go ahead and call him a PG. Forbes is SG. Less stress on Walker and White when they return. Still think some kind of trade with Mills, Pondexter and a pick for Carroll of NJ would work once he gets better after surgery.

[RC_Drunkford]

DDR seems to be more the point forward. Better yet, go ahead and call him a PG. Forbes is SG. Less stress on Walker and White when they return. Still think some kind of trade with Mills, Pondexter and a pick for Carroll of NJ would work once he gets better after surgery.

He's the perfect 3-and-D player for this team and we most likely can't sign him with cap space in free agency. We would have to use bird rights, which means a trade before the deadline has to happen.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't think PATFO gave Bertans that much money with the idea that he was on thin ice. Again, they can't trade Davis until the middle of January. No reason to not use him if you're going to have him no matter what. If the Spurs plan to win, they won't move any of these three this year unless part of something like a Porter trade. They all provide spacing and scoring that you need to put around DMDR and LMA. I expect all three to remain in the rotation once White returns, though one of them would lose his spot if Walker can get a solid role. If we're specifically talking about flipping the team over to try to win as fast as possible, then moving role-players to free up cap and get an asset or two is a pretty solid step.

Well unless we try to trade everybody in the offseason I think the Spurs have to make a move to aquire bird rights on one of those 3-and-D wings who are free agents in the offseason. That would help the team immediately.

[duncan2k5]

Trade Aldridge

[K...]

Trade Aldridge

Nobody wants him. Tanking teams don't want a veteran who is going to dominate the offense and whine about touches and no playoffs team is going to reconfigure their offense for a mid range big man. He's too old, too whiney to trade for anything other than shit late first round picks or bad contacts.

[gambit1990]

I still think this team should pursue Harrell in two years. Should still be cheap and it looks like he's improved his shooting touch.
that’s who i wanted the spurs to draft with their 26th pick.

[Fusternino]

that’s who i wanted the spurs to draft with their 26th pick.

I wanted him and Tobias + picks + (probably not this last part) Mills salary dump in a Kawhi trade.

[JeffDuncan]

DeRozan plays a ton of SF as it is, ...

Be that as it may, you don't just go moving your STAR PLAYER around because you want to make some theoretical roster notion work. That's unless we've wandered totally into lala land, where we can draft an elf and an ice dragon, and give them magical swords in place of a basketball.

Leave our STAR PLAYER alone. Stop it.


... You don't arbitrarily bench Walker for the next two or three years simply because you don't want DeRozan to be the third-tallest player on the court for the Spurs. ...

DDR is our STAR PLAYER. Stop it. If you don't stop trying to push our star player around, I'm gonna call the cops!

We don't need DDR at the 3. We need a brand new NBA 3, a good one, to replace last year's broken down model. For which we got stuck, with no warranty, dammit.


... Lonnie is currently the team's best chance to dramatically increase their talent level.

He is currently NOT PLAYING, and we do not know for a fact that he ever will. We only hope so. When he does, we do not know yet whether he'll turn out to be hot shit or hot trash, as an actual fact.

You're pushing aside our proven star player for an injured rookie who might only turn out to be the next version of Kyle Anderson, for all we truly know at this time.

Maybe I'm the odd one out, but my interest in discussions like this has to do with ways for the Spurs to win real games. I don't care at all about some purely hypothetical outcome in a fantasy game.

What is this discussion about? Are we trying to be real, or not?

We do not make DDR adjust to accomodate a rookie. The rookie just has to fit in as best he can. Is all I'm saying.


...
I don't think PATFO gave Bertans that much money with the idea that he was on thin ice. ...

I think PATFO wings it like a mockingbird. Look, there's something shiny! As for money, they seem to handle it about the same way Venezuela does.

Sane management would move Bertans out. What the Spurs will do.....

Well, we know, don't we. They'll give Bertans a nickname, like The Red Cobra, put him in HEB commercials, send him into two games a year, at the last minute, to try a 3, and if he makes the 3, the pa announcer will scream, the Red Cobra strikes again!

Oh god.


If the Spurs plan to win, they won't move any of these three this year unless part of something like a Porter trade. ...

Bertans and Ferrari are not significant to winning in comparison to a good NBA level 3. Especially, they leak like a sieve on D, and the D is the Spurs' major worry this year.

Ah, Porter. We'll never get him. If the Spurs get stuck with what they have it'll be for the simple reason that they don't have the management ability to get anybody better.

Spacing my foot. They seem to be mostly good at spacing the floor for the other team at the defensive end.

Aha, that explains Patty! Patty, why did you let that guy with the ball run right by you? I was spacing the floor! No, Patty, you're supposed to do that at the other end.


...
If we're specifically talking about flipping the team over to try to win as fast as possible, then moving role-players to free up cap and get an asset or two is a pretty solid step.

This year is the only year. The Great Meteor will strike next summer and we're all going to die. Oops, I wasn't supposed to reveal that. Forget I said that.

Consecutive 50 win seasons, gone. Consecutive playoff appearances, gone too?? I do not want to see that happen. I do not want to watch the Spurs decline to live among the league's bottom dwellers. Not even for one season. Not ever.

Think it's tough getting players for a "small market" team that had 50 wins last year? Try getting them for a team that had 25.

In the past, with a solid, stable core, the Spurs had the luxury of being able to do their infamous player development as a kind of lab exercise. They'd bring in some ungainly creature, from lord knows where, poke him and probe him, and see if they could somehow turn him into an NBA player. In those days, it didn't much matter if the experiment failed, because the core always held.

Now it matters. The old core is gone.

Hey y'know, I saw some video of a kid in Europe who looked interesting. He's kind of awkward and unathletic, but he's got a really nice touch on a 3 pointer! You don't say? That's fascinating. Now go fuck yourself.

The team is the players. We need better ones. Winners. ASAP.

[RC_Drunkford]

The team is the players. We need better ones. Winners. ASAP.

I wouldn't play DeRozan at SF too much, it takes away his size advantage that he has in the post when he plays against SGs. I think all the Spurs need is 3 3-and-D SFs. Ship out Gasol, Mills, Bertans, Belinelli and bring in something like Demarre Carroll, Stanley Johnson, a SF in the draft and a 3rd string Center and the team should look promising, while also having enough youth with upside

LA/Poeltl
Carroll/Gay
Johnson/Rookie
DeRozan/Walker
Murray/White

[anonymouse]

Totally suck for decades like GS and gather lottery picks along the way. These late round picks and average FAs will keep us middling for years to come.

[r0drig0lac]

going on the Jerry West Clippers route seems like an imo option. Create the deepest roster in the league where your bench is as good as your starting team, your ceiling may not be the tallest (with Pop who knows what it really would be?), But his floor is much taller (Denver 12/13 is another example)

[tbdog]

Spurs could look at Gali from Clippers. It will take Gasol plus a contract for the figures to get it done. Clippers may take that without a pick just to clear up space

[Chinook]

I wouldn't play DeRozan at SF too much, it takes away his size advantage that he has in the post when he plays against SGs. I think all the Spurs need is 3 3-and-D SFs. Ship out Gasol, Mills, Bertans, Belinelli and bring in something like Demarre Carroll, Stanley Johnson, a SF in the draft and a 3rd string Center and the team should look promising, while also having enough youth with upside

LA/Poeltl
Carroll/Gay
Johnson/Rookie
DeRozan/Walker
Murray/White

Someone like Johnson isn't going to stop teams from putting their SFs on DeRozan. Cross-matches are already a thing, and the team will both have to deal with them (like they did when GS would put Klay on Tony back in the day) and benefit from them (like they did when they put Green on Curry in that same day). It's frustrating to hear people complain about "moving" DeRozan. He's not being moved; Pop is just playing better players next to him. You don't not play your best guys just because you want to stick with archaic position designations. Pop understood that with Tim. With both DeRozan and Aldridge Pop has been willing to play small or to play big depending on the situation. The situation right now is that the roster's potential lies in its back court. Walker, Murray and White should all be playing as much as possible. Aldridge and Gay should play at positions that give them the best advantage, and that comes from them playing small.

Even if the team traded for Porter, it makes sense to put Porter at the four and still play the guard rotation as is.

GS:

Curry --- Murray
Thompson --- DeRozan
Durant --- Porter
Green --- Walker
Cousins --- Aldridge

HOU:

Paul --- Murray
Harden --- Walker
Tucker --- DeRozan
Anthony --- Porter
Capela --- Aldridge

UTH:

Rubio --- Murray
Mitchell --- Walker
Ingles --- Porter
Crowder --- DeRozan
Gobert --- Aldridge

LAL:

Ball --- Murray
Hart --- DeRozan
Kuzma --- Walker
James --- Porter
McGee --- Aldridge

I could go on. Yes, there are a couple of teams like Toronto where Pop would either have to go a bit bigger or have Walker or DeRozan check Leonard instead of Porter doing it. But the reason why I mentioned the need for a "defensive forward" and not specifically a small-forward is because of this shift front courts around the league. Most of the best SFs either play the four nowadays or they play next to a stretch-four that DeRozan could check. He doesn't have to play the two to avoid those match-ups. Moreover, the small-ball trend has made it easier for teams to get size on whomever they want. Just as the Spurs would be able to slide DeRozan around wherever to avoid bad match-ups, other teams can (and have during DeMar's Toronto stint) moved guys around to make sure DeRozan has a guy with size in front of him at all times.

[rascal]

A couple of bad years to land in the lottery and get lucky to land a franchise player. This was the recipe for success in the past.

[JakeCuenca]

As much as people praise Popovich, nobody seems to be wanting to play for him. At least no superstars

Boom

[Brazil]

Draft Tim Duncan