View Full Version : Amateur: Five Guys Standing Around The Arc
Spurtacular
11-01-2018, 11:21 PM
That's like 90 percent of these half court set plays. The other ten percent are four guys around the arc and and a spoke man in the middle for a pass-in and kick out when the double team comes. Really boring to watch, honestly. Really sad. RIP NBA Basketball.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV_4_lBGns0
D-Wade
11-02-2018, 12:20 AM
Agreed man. No offensive imagination these days. Plus you have teams without the personnel also being forced to play like that like the Heat (sans Ellington and Waiters). Or you get disasters like when the Rox flamed out at the 3 point line against the Dubs. Sure, analytics pros will say it was a "statistical aberration," but it's disturbing that a team with all that talent didn't try to mix it up.
Killakobe81
11-02-2018, 06:04 AM
Agreed man. No offensive imagination these days. Plus you have teams without the personnel also being forced to play like that like the Heat (sans Ellington and Waiters). Or you get disasters like when the Rox flamed out at the 3 point line against the Dubs. Sure, analytics pros will say it was a "statistical aberration," but it's disturbing that a team with all that talent didn't try to mix it up.
great point. Should be a balance. Denver at leas feeds Jokic and Nola,Spurs and Lakers has some variance too but overall not only is defense non-existent but the game is prone to even wilder, larger swings as teams shoot themselves in and out of games.
Now sometimes it leads to great comebacks which can be cool but then you also get blowouts like Spurs/suns or Sacto dropping 140 on a bunch of scrubs.
Glad I did not buy full LP ...
I bought Lakers only and will rely on Mavs locally and TNT/ABC/ESPN for free ish I dont even have NBATV anymore ...
Mr. Body
11-02-2018, 09:54 AM
Casuals love it though.
Chris Fall
11-02-2018, 10:58 AM
People hate this. But people also hated the early 2000s Spurs and Pistons defensive style that would see 75-70 scores. The early 80s “golden age” some try to be nostalgic about wasn’t much different than this, minus the volume three point shooting. Lots of wide open transition, early shot attempts, no defense. In some ways, those 80s Nuggets and Suns teams under guys like McLeod and Doug Moe were forefathers to this style. I mean think of Showtime and Run TMC around the same time. Same style, but minimal three attempts.
The proliferated use of the three point shot just really has thrown a wrench into everything. Stylistically, it’s not bad when three point shots are made at a normalized rate. If both teams can make 30-40% of their attempts, then the game can remain aesthetically acceptable. It’s when for example a Golden State hits 18-of-31 and their opposing Hawks team go 2-for-19 that games can get ugly and quickly. The wide variance game to game can see a great watch one night turn into unwatchable the next.
There isn’t much we can do about it. The success of Golden State and to a lesser extent Houston have had in recent years will continue to see teams follow in those footsteps. And for like 15-20 years, adjusted rules and interpretation of those rules have pretty much all favored offense, with perhaps the only exception of the Durant swim through move foul not being a shooting foul anymore. It also starts in high school and AAU when 6’9+ kids with NBA level talent and athleticism are focusing on one-on-one isolation moves and dunking and three point shooting. Regardless of the rules, we won’t see much change from this style until the talent changes and moves from it. Shaq and Hakeem and Duncan don’t exist in today’s league. Now they’re Boogie Cousins attempting five threes a game, DeAndre Jordan whose only scoring skill is “dunk ball,” and Andre Drummond who regularly shoots airball hook shots from 5 feet away. This style will persist until the elite talent starts playing a different way.
Good luck with that.
adonis827
11-02-2018, 10:59 AM
probably for spacing so the slashers have room to operate. Are the spurs the same way now with DeRozan?
tlongII
11-02-2018, 11:16 AM
Most people love this style of play. Ratings are up. The NBA has never been in a better place.
Number 2
11-02-2018, 07:04 PM
No surprise high volume 3 point shooting has become the game's most efficient offense. Millennials are, after all, path-of-least-resistance kind of people. NBA's fault for not fixing it. But hey, ratings.
Chris
11-02-2018, 07:11 PM
Post Duncan Era has been pretty shitty tbh
FrostKing
11-02-2018, 08:20 PM
When Coach K @ Duke accepted isolation plays, I knew the sport was in trouble.
Spurtacular
11-02-2018, 09:19 PM
The early 80s “golden age” some try to be nostalgic about wasn’t much different than this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA
FrostKing
11-02-2018, 09:27 PM
https://youtu.be/dQePkBnD0vo
Killakobe81
11-03-2018, 12:20 AM
People hate this. But people also hated the early 2000s Spurs and Pistons defensive style that would see 75-70 scores. The early 80s “golden age” some try to be nostalgic about wasn’t much different than this, minus the volume three point shooting. Lots of wide open transition, early shot attempts, no defense. In some ways, those 80s Nuggets and Suns teams under guys like McLeod and Doug Moe were forefathers to this style. I mean think of Showtime and Run TMC around the same time. Same style, but minimal three attempts.
The proliferated use of the three point shot just really has thrown a wrench into everything. Stylistically, it’s not bad when three point shots are made at a normalized rate. If both teams can make 30-40% of their attempts, then the game can remain aesthetically acceptable. It’s when for example a Golden State hits 18-of-31 and their opposing Hawks team go 2-for-19 that games can get ugly and quickly. The wide variance game to game can see a great watch one night turn into unwatchable the next.
There isn’t much we can do about it. The success of Golden State and to a lesser extent Houston have had in recent years will continue to see teams follow in those footsteps. And for like 15-20 years, adjusted rules and interpretation of those rules have pretty much all favored offense, with perhaps the only exception of the Durant swim through move foul not being a shooting foul anymore. It also starts in high school and AAU when 6’9+ kids with NBA level talent and athleticism are focusing on one-on-one isolation moves and dunking and three point shooting. Regardless of the rules, we won’t see much change from this style until the talent changes and moves from it. Shaq and Hakeem and Duncan don’t exist in today’s league. Now they’re Boogie Cousins attempting five threes a game, DeAndre Jordan whose only scoring skill is “dunk ball,” and Andre Drummond who regularly shoots airball hook shots from 5 feet away. This style will persist until the elite talent starts playing a different way.
Good luck with that.
Some great points but even Lakers, Celts, Jazz Sixers Hawks and Bucks played some defense that is why they were the best teams of that era none were the Pistons... But compared to most of the teams today with these wack rules they would be a top 10 defense all of them... Plus they actually ran half court sets.
General Virtue
11-03-2018, 01:34 AM
Most Euro steps would've been called travel in the 80's.
Mirrornick
11-03-2018, 09:16 AM
No doubt the new rules were implemented so that teams score more and at a faster pace = more points = more entertaining to the casual fans
The physicality is also gone. Advanced stats/analytics nerds are taking over the game before our very eyes. The nerds can't play ball but can dictate it, which is why the game is different now.
Yet somehow the injuries remain the same as it was 20 years ago. Even though the game is far less physical and players are playing way less minutes than the previous generation all stars.
Laker_1995
11-03-2018, 09:28 AM
No doubt the new rules were implemented so that teams score more and at a faster pace = more points = more entertaining to the casual fans
The physicality is also gone. Advanced stats/analytics nerds are taking over the game before our very eyes. The nerds can't play ball but can dictate it, which is why the game is different now.
Yet somehow the injuries remain the same as it was 20 years ago. Even though the game is far less physical and players are playing way less minutes than the previous generation all stars.
Dont get me wrong obviously if your a true warrior fan it is heaven right now but the game is boring now. They praise Klay for dropping 50 but I mean if you are a real shooter and that is your job and if you ahoot 24 of them against no defense how is that truly impressive? Idk back then dude would have been knocked down for doing all that bull shit. Running up the score
lefty
11-03-2018, 12:08 PM
Dont get me wrong obviously if your a true warrior fan it is heaven right now but the game is boring now. They praise Klay for dropping 50 but I mean if you are a real shooter and that is your job and if you ahoot 24 of them against no defense how is that truly impressive? Idk back then dude would have been knocked down for doing all that bull shit. Running up the score
This
If he played in a less 3 pt centric era he wouldn't have those numbers and would be another Crag Ehl:lol
A lot of shooters today are just inflating their stats.
Spurtacular
11-08-2018, 12:54 AM
15 rebounds for DD.
:lmao Today's NBA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd2INNWfFYA
FrostKing
11-08-2018, 03:40 AM
Most people love this style of play. Ratings are up. The NBA has never been in a better place.
Ratings are up for a few different reasons
A) ESPN, Disney family and TNT advertise/discuss/air NBA far more today
B) Social media for fans and players
C) American society as a whole being more accepting of black culture
NBA importing International players and selling the sport overseas was a concentrated and calculated effort. Credit is deserved. The current success is mostly elements out of the NBA's hands
SAGirl
11-08-2018, 10:41 PM
That's like 90 percent of these half court set plays. The other ten percent are four guys around the arc and and a spoke man in the middle for a pass-in and kick out when the double team comes. Really boring to watch, honestly. Really sad. RIP NBA Basketball.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV_4_lBGns0
The most interesting player there was Giannis tbh.
HarlemHeat37
11-08-2018, 11:50 PM
Nostalgia, it's so strong:lol
zONvMKkIpwA
hqq-g9EJBSU
JakeCuenca
11-08-2018, 11:58 PM
Nostalgia, it's so strong:lol
zONvMKkIpwA
hqq-g9EJBSU
ICE Cream truck driver
:lmao
Spurtacular
11-09-2018, 12:08 AM
The most interesting player there was Giannis tbh.
He's interesting in any era; but the overall state of NBA via the rule changes is disastrous for the purists.
Spurtacular
11-09-2018, 12:11 AM
Nostalgia, it's so strong:lol
zONvMKkIpwA
hqq-g9EJBSU
Cherry picking. And let's be honest, 1986 MJ was lightning fast. Nobody should be pretending that Lebron ever had anything close to MJ's speed. And anyone calling the 86 C's crap is a big-time idiot.
Spurtacular
11-09-2018, 12:12 AM
Nostalgia, it's so strong:lol
zONvMKkIpwA
hqq-g9EJBSU
Cherry picking. And let's be honest, 1986 MJ was lightning fast. Nobody should be pretending that Lebron ever had anything close to MJ's speed. And anyone calling the 86 C's crap is a big-time idiot. This is decent from a satirical perspective; but if he really believes that shit, he doesn't know basketball.
Mr. Body
11-09-2018, 08:05 AM
Cherry picking. And let's be honest, 1986 MJ was lightning fast. Nobody should be pretending that Lebron ever had anything close to MJ's speed. And anyone calling the 86 C's crap is a big-time idiot. This is decent from a satirical perspective; but if he really believes that shit, he doesn't know basketball.
Eighties defense was terrible. It's why the Pistons came off so brutal. They were actually physical and actually defended everywhere on the court. Bird and McHale were fucking terrible defenders in an era when even the top teams had one 'defensive stopper'. One.
lefty
11-09-2018, 05:58 PM
Jordan had an 20 ppg guy in Wooldridge.
But he didn't have help !!!!!
HarlemHeat37
11-09-2018, 06:03 PM
Jordan had an 20 ppg guy in Wooldridge.
But he didn't have help !!!!!
Poor Scottie, most underrated player of all-time..
lefty
11-09-2018, 08:31 PM
Poor Scottie, most underrated player of all-time..
He is a phaggot, but yes I agree he is criminally underrated
FrostKing
11-10-2018, 01:37 AM
Eighties defense was terrible. It's why the Pistons came off so brutal. They were actually physical and actually defended everywhere on the court. Bird and McHale were fucking terrible defenders in an era when even the top teams had one 'defensive stopper'. One.
Bird & McHale would each average 20 boards a game today
Spurtacular
11-10-2018, 03:59 AM
Eighties defense was terrible. It's why the Pistons came off so brutal. They were actually physical and actually defended everywhere on the court. Bird and McHale were fucking terrible defenders in an era when even the top teams had one 'defensive stopper'. One.
There's a big difference between real physical basketball from the 80's and today's pussy ball. FFS, the Warriors are considered a great defensive team in today's NBA. :lmao
Spurtacular
11-10-2018, 04:00 AM
Jordan had an 20 ppg guy in Wooldridge.
But he didn't have help !!!!!
He got about 38 wins of help. But GOAT :lmao
ambchang
11-10-2018, 10:09 AM
There's a big difference between real physical basketball from the 80's and today's pussy ball. FFS, the Warriors are considered a great defensive team in today's NBA. :lmao
A 6’5” player being the best defensive center in the league :lol. Forget about Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Duncan and Ewing. B-listers like Daugherty, Mourning, Smits and Seikaly would dominate the paint in :lol today’s nba.
A 6’5” player being the best defensive center in the league :lol. Forget about Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Duncan and Ewing. B-listers like Daugherty, Mourning, Smits and Seikaly would dominate the paint in :lol today’s nba.
They'd be destroyed by outside shooting. The paint is just there now for the restricted area to draw a charge.
ambchang
11-10-2018, 12:46 PM
They'd be destroyed by outside shooting. The paint is just there now for the restricted area to draw a charge.
Robinson and Hakeem won’t, those two have routinely chased down guards or shown that they can keep up with PGs in switches. They are quick enough. As for the others? Sure if you play in a league where players aren’t allowed to guard the perimeter or drives at all, but they’d still beast on any centres in :lol today’s nba
A 6’5” player being the best defensive center in the league :lol. Forget about Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Duncan and Ewing. B-listers like Daugherty, Mourning, Smits and Seikaly would dominate the paint in :lol today’s nba.
They'd be destroyed by outside shooting. The paint is just there now for the restricted area to draw a charge.
Robinson and Hakeem won’t, those two have routinely chased down guards or shown that they can keep up with PGs in switches. They are quick enough. As for the others? Sure if you play in a league where players aren’t allowed to guard the perimeter or drives at all, but they’d still beast on any centres in :lol today’s nba
Way to remember what you said, retard.
HarlemHeat37
11-10-2018, 01:04 PM
Way to remember what you said, retard.
:lmao
ambchang
11-10-2018, 02:23 PM
A 6’5” player being the best defensive center in the league :lol. Forget about Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Duncan and Ewing. B-listers like Daugherty, Mourning, Smits and Seikaly would dominate the paint in :lol today’s nba.
They'd be destroyed by outside shooting. The paint is just there now for the restricted area to draw a charge.
Way to remember what you said, retard.
Way to read, retard.
ambchang
11-10-2018, 02:24 PM
:lmao
Do they still teach comprehension in your generation? Or they only start telling you about how mathematics make you feel?
Way to read, retard.
Subject/predicate.
American English 101
Learn it
ambchang
11-10-2018, 03:00 PM
Subject/predicate.
American English 101
Learn it
Forum, sub-topics.
Learn to use a web, fat hands.
Spurtacular
11-10-2018, 03:44 PM
A 6’5” player being the best defensive center in the league :lol. Forget about Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Duncan and Ewing. B-listers like Daugherty, Mourning, Smits and Seikaly would dominate the paint in :lol today’s nba.
Yea, I don't think that the fanboys understand how pussified the league has become. String bean KD as a rookie could not handle the physicality very well.
Spurtacular
11-10-2018, 03:46 PM
They'd be destroyed by outside shooting. The paint is just there now for the restricted area to draw a charge.
Depends a lot on the rules. They gonna call the moving screens that allow all these open threes on pick and roll and flares, etc? They gonna allow players to be physical or no?
Depends a lot on the rules. They gonna call the moving screens that allow all these open threes on pick and roll and flares, etc? They gonna allow players to be physical or no?
Today's rules.
Spurtacular
11-10-2018, 03:58 PM
Today's rules.
Then I agree with you to an extent. Olajuwon and D-Rob would have great success if much lesser guys like Capella are having a solid impact though, tbh.
Killakobe81
11-10-2018, 04:07 PM
Robinson and Hakeem won’t, those two have routinely chased down guards or shown that they can keep up with PGs in switches. They are quick enough. As for the others? Sure if you play in a league where players aren’t allowed to guard the perimeter or drives at all, but they’d still beast on any centres in :lol today’s nba
Agree 100% with Amb.
Be tougher on Tim/Shaq defensively... But they would eat every center on the other end including Embiid...
Where David and Hakeem gain value is they can run the floor and get easy buckets, chase wings at the 3 line and rim protect plus with this pace?
DAVID and Hakeem would both be unstoppable on both ends
Killakobe81
11-10-2018, 04:09 PM
Then I agree with you to an extent. Olajuwon and D-Rob would have great success if much lesser guys like Capella are having a solid impact though, tbh.
Heck even Javelle McGee is a positive in current NBA David and Dream would be in GOAT convo
Spurtacular
11-10-2018, 04:12 PM
Heck even Javelle McGee is a positive in current NBA David and Dream would be in GOAT convo
Guys like Ralph Sampson (pre injury) could legitimately go for 28 ppg. 35 ppg if he increased his shooting range to threes.
daslicer
11-10-2018, 04:26 PM
Heck even Javelle McGee is a positive in current NBA David and Dream would be in GOAT convo
Young Marcus Camby would be great in this current league.
lefty
11-10-2018, 05:09 PM
Young Marcus Camby would be great in this current league.
Agreed
lefty
11-10-2018, 05:10 PM
Camby would have Anthony Davis stats in t:lolday's NBA
ambchang
11-10-2018, 05:44 PM
:lol. Based on what?
What has posting etiquette have to do with five guys standing around the arc?
Try to stay consistent in your posting like you stay consistent with your high fat diet.
B-listers like Daugherty, Mourning, Smits and Seikaly would dominate the paint in :lol today’s nba.
Then I agree with you to an extent. Olajuwon and D-Rob would have great success if much lesser guys like Capella are having a solid impact though, tbh.
See what I was responding to?
People like David and Hakeem would not develop as well in today's league. They wouldn't be the focal point in college or the NBA on offense.
FrostKing
11-10-2018, 06:34 PM
People like David and Hakeem would not develop as well in today's league. They wouldn't be the focal point in college or the NBA on offense.
I envision an Hakeem shooting 3's
As a viewer and former player: I prefer 5 positions.
Spurtacular
11-10-2018, 06:53 PM
See what I was responding to?
Daugherty, Mourning would have to change their game; but they could have decent careers. Definitely, the new rules would diminish their impact though.
ambchang
11-10-2018, 09:40 PM
See what I was responding to?
Yeah. And going off topic while you are preaching about staying exactly on topic as per subject.
Serious question though, why do you hate yourself so much that you have to pretty to be white and not fat? What is wrong with either one?m
But to respond to your off subject remark, players with no post moves are dominating the paint in :lol today’s nba so there is little doubt those I quoted would.
Yeah. And going off topic while you are preaching about staying exactly on topic as per subject.
Serious question though, why do you hate yourself so much that you have to pretty to be white and not fat? What is wrong with either one?m
But to respond to your off subject remark, players with no post moves are dominating the paint in :lol today’s nba so there is little doubt those I quoted would.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoN11nsrX3H7bPy/giphy.gif
JakeCuenca
11-10-2018, 11:18 PM
Defense in the 90s was atrocious. Lazy defense all around.
midnightpulp
11-11-2018, 07:51 AM
Even if NBA defenses are essentially the equivalent of defense in past NBA eras, it still doesn't change the fact that today's game is the most aesthetically unpleasing (and unbalanced) game of the past four decades. Yes, 80's ball had lax defense and high scores, but scores came via more fast breaking into penetration and the like. The post-game was also still a big weapon in 80s basketball. Watching a "fast break" today conclude with a chucked 3 makes the sport look like pickup basketball.
"What about 90s and grit-and-grind 00s ball? Now that was ugly!"
Perhaps, but since those were lower scoring, there was a tense attritional element to each and every basket, especially during the playoffs. A big 4th quarter 3 with a couple minutes left to break a tie felt backbreaking, whereas today, teams will probably trade 3s till the buzzer. This relates to the primary complaint from people who don't like basketball that there's too much scoring and no score really feels like it alters the balance of the game until the closing moments. Scores and leads have never felt so "meaningless," which makes comebacks less impressive and exciting.
It's not about old vs. new or any of that bullshit. Players have caught up to the dimensions of the 3 point line where the shot isn't really any more difficult than a standard midrange jumper. When the 3 point shot was first introduced, I think the league wide percentage was 20%. It was designed to be basketball's home run/hail mary. The comparative rarity of those events compared to standard plays is what makes them exciting. The 3 point shot needs to be similarly rare in context. Move the line back to 35 feet and take away the corner lines.
midnightpulp
11-11-2018, 08:08 AM
And to further illustrate why this is not merely older basketball fans railing against modernity while resorting to nostalgia, the central culprit here is analytics. "Now you're sounding like an old, bitter player!" No. Analytics or any kind of mathematically driven approach to strategy will always find the most efficient and effective tactics to exploit. Any coach would love to have just one single approach that works because there's less moving parts to implement. Analytics has found this to be the 3 point shot in basketball, and since the 3 point shot is horrifically unbalanced, no competing approaches (i.e. a team that wanted to run a balanced inside/out system mixing in post, penetration, and shooting) make mathematical sense.
Since basketball has such an exploitable flaw, the sport is on a road map to becoming one dimensional (even bigs are taking 5 threes per game). And compared to the other major sports, basketball is the most one dimensional of all. The analytical approach that teams take today should force the brass in all sports to be constantly vigilant and willing to "rebalance" the game as needed to make a variety of strategies viable.
ambchang
11-11-2018, 10:03 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoN11nsrX3H7bPy/giphy.gif
My apologies. I meant pretend. Typo on phone.
But this is off topic though. So not sure why you at responding.
Spurtacular
11-11-2018, 03:17 PM
Defense in the 90s was atrocious. Lazy defense all around.
There is nobody in today's game even close to the 93 Sonics defensive level.
dbestpro
11-12-2018, 07:48 AM
The solution, in my opinion, is to develop an alternate league. Loyalty to the league has never been lower, and a league playing the game the right way. Physical play where the centers are allowed to play would draw lots of interest. The ABA did it, it can be done, again.
HarlemHeat37
11-12-2018, 09:16 AM
The solution, in my opinion, is to develop an alternate league. Loyalty to the league has never been lower, and a league playing the game the right way. Physical play where the centers are allowed to play would draw lots of interest. The ABA did it, it can be done, again.
They already have an alternative for the NBA that is based on the 90s and early 2000s, it's the Big 3..
dbestpro
11-12-2018, 10:06 AM
They already have an alternative for the NBA that is based on the 90s and early 2000s, it's the Big 3..
Add two players and franchises around the country and then maybe you will have something.
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