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View Full Version : Grades: Spurs vs. Rockets - Nov. 11, 2018



timvp
11-11-2018, 02:39 AM
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The Spurs ended their two-game slide by defeating the Rockets in the friendly confines of the AT&T Center. The 96-89 victory improves San Antonio to 7-4 on the season as they now head west for a three-game road trip.

While any win against the Rockets is worth at least a subtle fist pump, this one was ugly. Houston was at the end of a five-game road trip and they looked a few steps slow. Add in a barrage of missed open jumpers by the Rockets and the Spurs didn't so much win this game as they managed (just barely at times) to not beat themselves.

Woof.

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LaMarcus Aldridge
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While his final box score numbers were handsome, LaMarcus Aldridge's outing was far from aesthetically pleasing. Offensively, he never really took advantage of the fact the Rockets were using smaller defenders on him (including James Harden) and weren't sending many double-teams. Instead, he authored numerous ill-conceived fadeaways, misfired on standstill jumpers and added to the drudgery by missing a few bunnies at the rim. Defensively, Aldridge tried to move his feet but most of his success on D involved Houston missing a makeable shot. His work on the boards was decent but could have been a lot better; his boxing out left much to be desired. All that said, give the big man credit, his effort was consistently positive throughout the affair. He slogged through a lot of griminess and did enough to lead the good guys to a win. Aldridge kept his head up, scored key points in the fourth and played with a physicality that was missing in Miami. Let's hope he can build on this going forward.
Grade: B-
Summary: Aldridge scratched and clawed his way to a productive evening.

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DeMar DeRozan
https://i.imgur.com/ZKxGADZ.png
The good: I thought DeMar DeRozan's defense was solid. He kept guys in front of him, swiftly switched when the gameplan called for it, kept his hands up to avoid cheap fouls and was extremely fiesty on the defensive glass. The bad: Offensively, Saturday night was just one giant headache for DeRozan. He scored two quick buckets off isolation plays but then things went way south. He let a couple no-calls get in his head and started forcing the issue. The results weren't pretty. A majority of his touches led to bad shots, off-balance passes and/or turnovers. Needless to say, DeRozan never found a rhythm and was far from the offensive superstar we've witnessed in the majority of games thus far.
Grade: C-
Summary: DeRozan was totally discombobulated on offense but uncharacteristically sturdy on defense.

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Derrick White
https://i.imgur.com/IrTA2dV.png
Alright, that's more like it. After a feeble season debut against the Heat, Derrick White showed the world why Pop made him an instant starter. First of all, and most importantly, it looks like the Spurs officially have another playmaker on the roster. White's ball-handling was a plus, his court vision was great and his passing was impeccable. He was seeing plays develop a step ahead of everyone else and that led to him finishing with a game-high (and career-high) eight assists. Once he shook the cobwebs off of his trigger finger in third quarter, White wasn't bashful about creating for himself. Defensively, he was also quite impressive. He moved his feet better than anyone else on the team, he expertly played passing lanes and provided timely help defense. While, yes, this was just one good game, it was definitely an exciting glimpse at what White could become. Judging by what we saw tonight, he's a legit 6-foot-4 point guard who plays bigger and faster than he looks at first glance -- and does so with a high basketball IQ and advanced playmaking abilities.
Grade: A
Summary: White was really good and gave hope that he has a bright future.

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Bryn Forbes
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In Miami, Bryn Forbes struggled in the transition from point guard back to shooting guard. Against the Rockets, it looked like he had overcome that mental block and had successfully completed the transition. Forbes did well moving to open space, drove the ball to the basket with purpose and wasn't timid about firing shots off the dribble. Defensively, I don't think he could have done much more. He doesn't have the physical tools to impact the game much on that end but he played with edge, kept his rotations tight and didn't unnecessarily reach as much as usual.
Grade: B+
Summary: Forbes started the game at shooting guard and gave the Spurs good minutes.

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Dante Cunningham
https://i.imgur.com/W3QWUCI.png
Dante Cunningham was once again the starting lineup. However, with third scorer Rudy Gay still out, Cunningham's presence in the starting lineup wasn't helping matters. Offensively, he single-handedly clogged the lanes and made life more difficult for DeRozan and Aldridge. Defensively, Cunningham wasn't doing much right. He was too small to battle Clint Capela and too slow to stay in front of Harden or Chris Paul. Not being able to physically compete, Cunningham quickly got in foul trouble and sat on the bench for the final twenty three and a half minutes.
Grade: C-
Summary: Dante Cunningham wasn't helping much at all. He got in foul trouble. He sat.

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Patty Mills
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Patty Mills didn't have the extra gusto he had in recent games. Offensively, his ball-handling was shaky and he wasn't even trying to make plays for himself or others. On the defensive end, I liked that he showed extra effort on the boards and he competed decently well most of the time. However, he was blatantly flopping a lot and that led to spontaneous and unnecessary defensive breakdowns a handful of times as the rest of the team scrambled to cover his man. All in all, I wouldn't say Mills was bad but I also wouldn't say he helped the cause much at all.
Grade: C+
Summary: Mills was subdued after a string of energetic outings.

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Davis Bertans
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For the second straight game, I was impressed with Davis Bertans' defense. He avoided mental errors, moved his feet well to stay in front of smaller players, used every ounce of his God-given testosterone to box out and generally moved like he knew what he was doing. Compared to all the air-headed mistakes he was making to start the season, these last two games have been a big step forward for Bertans on that end. Offensively, Bertans did what he does best: Fire away from downtown. I also liked that he sometimes used his dribble to create a bit of needed movement in the otherwise morose offensive sets.
Grade: A-
Summary: Bertans was the best player off the bench on this night.

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Marco Belinelli
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There just wasn't much to like about how Marco Belinelli played. He was the worst perimeter defender on the team by a wide margin. On offense, the Spurs rely on Belinelli's controlled chaos to enliven the bench unit. Against the Rockets, that didn't happen. Instead, he was out of control and oftentimes made disheveled possessions even more jumbled.
Grade: C-
Summary: Belinelli wasn't playing smart on either end and was thus a liability.

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Quincy Pondexter
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Progress. Quincy Pondexter at times looked like a legitimate NBA player. He took turns defending Harden and CP3 and did pretty well. (Though, it should be noted that neither Harden nor CP3 were playing well at all. CP3, specifically, was moving in slow motion.) On offense, Pondexter had his moments. After knocking down a three-pointer, he started aggressively taking the ball to the rim and ended up at the line at an impressive rate. That said, his passing and court awareness were painfully poor on offense and the Rockets were so stuck in mud that it was difficult to judge Pondexter's effectiveness on defense. But, overall, this was a step in the right direction for Pondexter's NBA ambitions.
Grade: B+
Summary: Pondexter was active during his 15 minutes and the coaches have to be intrigued by his performance.

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Chimezie Metu
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Yikes. With both Pau Gasol (foot) and Jakob Poeltl (ankle) sidelined, Chimezie Metu entered the rotation. And . . . it was difficult to watch. Metu somehow had no idea where to go on the court. I mean, the Coyote would have had a better grasp on the sets the Spurs were trying to run. I'll give the rookie a pass because this was his first meaningful minutes but, jeez, I don't think I've ever seen a Spur so clueless on both ends of the court. Metu needs minutes (lots and lots of minutes) in Austin to learn the offensive plays and the defensive principles. The silver lining is he passed the eye-test. He moves really well for a modern day center, he has good timing when going for blocked shots and rebounds, and he didn't sulk despite the deluge of errors.
Grade: D
Summary: Metu played his real minutes and he looked like the greenest of rookies, to put it kindly.

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Pop
https://i.imgur.com/x7B1It7.jpg
Pop obviously believes in White and that belief paid off tonight. It's safe to say Pop's confidence in White was not unfounded. Keeping Forbes in the starting lineup at shooting guard appears to be the right move, at least for now with Gay out. Pop got good minutes out of Pondexter and let him learn on the fly. And, even though he was bad, it was probably a good thing to give Metu some daylight. At the very least, the rookie now understands the difficulty of this next level. Benching Cunningham was the right move. (In fact, Cunningham really shouldn't be starting anymore. We'll see if Pop is starting to come to that realization or if it was just foul trouble that limited Cunningham's minutes.)
Grade: A-
Summary: Pop pressed a lot of buttons that worked out well.

Looking ahead: Burn the tape. Yes, Spurs won but I don't think they can take anything from the game. The Rockets were busy beating themselves tonight and the Spurs did just enough let them do just that.

The three-game road trip San Antonio faces starts Monday in Sacramento and ends with back-to-back games against the Suns on Wednesday and the Clippers on Thursday. With the schedule about to get a lot more difficult following the trip west, the Spurs really need to win at least two of these three games.

Westward ho.

Spurs fever
11-11-2018, 03:01 AM
Thanks for the grades.

Chinook
11-11-2018, 03:11 AM
Really can't agree on Bertans. Offensively, he was a base hit. Defensively, he continued to be a punching bag for the opposing team. Davis gave up almost every one of Gordon's scores. With the way he looks, guys are going to keep attacking him with their bodies. He has to hold up better than that.

Cun needs to keep starting. Gay needs to come off the bench. If Dante can't hold up, they've gotta acquire and upgrade. Gay starting isn't the answer.

White and DeRozan work. Pop needs to stagger them better, but against teams with only one big forward, starting Forbes with those guys works too. Bryn's confidence level is amazing right now. Dude doesn't give a fuck and challenged McGee, Whiteside and Capela multiple times. He's a Neal-esque gunner, and the team still needs that.

venitian navigator
11-11-2018, 03:36 AM
Thanks for the grades. I agree with Chinook that Bertans needs to do a lot better on defense, but its obvious that he's gonna struggle a bit facing faster opponents, as its obvious to me that playing defense on the perimeter is better for him, just bacause he's 6.10 and so he can always contest outside shots and close the pasing lanes, that playing on the boards, when he's gonna get always bullied. The point is he's trying hard and it shows, and that is a positive sign for all his teammates...and I think all in all he's a positive, because I really like what he gives, spacing and shooting, on the opposite end of the floor.

phxspurfan
11-11-2018, 03:44 AM
I like how Metu looked with Bertans. I think that lineup has good length and athleticism, and they complement each other well. But yes, Metu does need to learn the sets, that much was apparent.

Forbes looked confident and like an Eric Gordon type of player out there as a SG. Nice to see him willing to let it fly and take advantage of that skill set. Spurs once again making marginal talents work in the NBA.

White looked great. I wonder what happened, because he never looked like this when I watched him play before. He looked like a 6'4" Parker out there (2001-02, pre-jumpshot Parker, with the driving layups/dump-offs, and floater).

LMA needs to learn to "punish dem midgets!" (-Sir Charles) more, because teams have been doing this to him a lot. He shouldn't be taking those soft fadeaways against guys like Harden. Just drop step him or post him up and do work. Study tapes of how Kawhi does this every time he's switched onto a smaller guy.

DeRozan definitely did look frustrated out there. He has to learn more mental stability to reach the next (MVP) level. He can't let frustration ruin his night like this.

Mills and Beli were par for the course, IMO. Some good, some head scratching bad. Beli for example had a Manu-like pass to a cutting Mills that made CP0 very frustrated and exposed for the shitty defender he is/always has been.


On the Rockettes side, Capela was a beast all game. He was like how Ibaka used to play against us, just everywhere doing everything. Gordon also tore us up. Harden got wayy wayyy too many calls. WTF. Makes Houston games so hard to watch. Like watching the old Shaq Kobe Laker games with all those calls they got.


Oh and :lol Rockettes

skookumchuck
11-11-2018, 03:46 AM
One of the issues with Bertans is that a lot of the line ups he plays in this year - he is the best defender on the floor. Really, not his fault but it also SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN. If there's a dead weight situation on the roster look no further than Marco Mills.

ceperez
11-11-2018, 04:26 AM
White plugs a major hole in the Spurs lineup. Someone other than DeRozan needs to create assists. Spurs have had trouble getting the ball to Aldridge on a mismatch and White is the only guy (other than Pau) to do that.

With Whiite back and hopefully Gay, Spurs have a strong enough lineup to make the playoffs.

r0drig0lac
11-11-2018, 04:34 AM
Bertans has the effort but for some reason looks really weak (even for guards) and Aldridge had the worst efficient game that I remember in many years, "last season" Aldridge would probably have dropped 40 today

BG_Spurs_Fan
11-11-2018, 04:52 AM
Bertans has the effort but for some reason looks really weak (even for guards) and Aldridge had the worst efficient game that I remember in many years, "last season" Aldridge would probably have dropped 40 today

It's infuriating how Aldridge's toughness varies from game to game. He's usually the strongest dude on the court and can bully almost anyone but whether this Aldridge shows up or the soft one is a coin toss.

objective
11-11-2018, 06:55 AM
The great thing about White is he showed how much positive he can do passing without much pick & roll

He was a pick & roll maestro in the g-league. He'll get easy baskets for roll men. He should be good with Gay, and presumably Poeltl if he has any game at all.

He hasn't shown his full hand yet, something to look forward to.

ceperez
11-11-2018, 08:28 AM
The great thing about White is he showed how much positive he can do passing without much pick & roll

He was a pick & roll maestro in the g-league. He'll get easy baskets for roll men. He should be good with Gay, and presumably Poeltl if he has any game at all.

He hasn't shown his full hand yet, something to look forward to.

:bobo

Dejounte
11-11-2018, 08:38 AM
White is that much more effective with the ball in his hands. This is why I don't understand the Start White with Murray group. That is not utilizing the full Line-up to its maximum capability. Both players should have time on their own to lead.

Raven
11-11-2018, 08:53 AM
i thought nobody deserved more than a C and Derozan was a flat F, mostly because of D. But it is true that i switched off after 3/4 as the shit was too hard to bare at 4 am.

Keepin' it real
11-11-2018, 08:54 AM
Really can't agree on Bertans. Offensively, he was a base hit. Defensively, he continued to be a punching bag for the opposing team.

I don't understand how this keeps happening. Bertans is often in good position and defends well all the way to the bucket, but it seems like EVERY shot he defends goes in.:wtf

Why is that? I think it's psychological ... NBA players look at Bertans and say "Here's another soft white Euro ... let me make him my bitch." And then they do! Wtf???

MoSpur02
11-11-2018, 09:03 AM
I was really impressed with White. Looked like a better faster version of Kyle Anderson, but with a better offensive game. No offense to Kyle or SAGirl. He's very smart and pretty darn good offensively. I was worried about his defense, but his defense impressed me too.

Has high hopes for Metu's coming out party and was let down a bit. However, you can see the skills. He just needs to learn how to put those skills to better use. I'm confident he will.


Marco is really pissing me off. He's way too trigger happy. I get it. He can shoot, but damn! There are times when it's better to dribble to the basket or pass than shooting the three ball.

ceperez
11-11-2018, 09:04 AM
I don't understand how this keeps happening. Bertans is often in good position and defends well all the way to the bucket, but it seems like EVERY shot he defends goes in.:wtf

Why is that? I think it's psychological ... NBA players look at Bertans and say "Here's another soft white Euro ... let me make him my bitch." And then they do! Wtf???

The opponents are instructed by the coaching staff to force the shot when guarded by Bertans (and Mills, Forbes). Why force a shot against a better defender.

So this adds to the confidence. Also, I think Bertans just bounces of players in contact, so it doesn't actually alter a shot.

Thunder1
11-11-2018, 09:19 AM
Missed the game last night, so the grades are very welcome, indeed.. thanx!!..

Philthemage
11-11-2018, 09:34 AM
The opponents are instructed by the coaching staff to force the shot when guarded by Bertans (and Mills, Forbes). Why force a shot against a better defender.

So this adds to the confidence. Also, I think Bertans just bounces of players in contact, so it doesn't actually alter a shot.

The way he plays isn't soft either as he usually gets into the mix. I feel is he's able to put on more muscle like Forbes did, he can hold his own a bit better

Mr. Body
11-11-2018, 09:48 AM
I agree with most here. Bertans was pretty bad. At last not fighter than mediocre.

cool cat
11-11-2018, 09:57 AM
It’s the first game we won where Derozan didn’t have to be a offense juggernaut for us to win.

John B
11-11-2018, 10:32 AM
Thanks for the grades Timvp. Spot on.

bigfan
11-11-2018, 10:36 AM
As a longtime Spurs fan that lives out of SA I sure appreciate these recap/grades TIMVP, thanks for coming back and doing them again.

BWS-1994
11-11-2018, 11:00 AM
As a longtime Spurs fan that lives out of SA I sure appreciate these recap/grades TIMVP, thanks for coming back and doing them again.

I second this :tu

polandprzem
11-11-2018, 11:18 AM
White bit better then the previous game :D

Ed Helicopter Jones
11-11-2018, 12:11 PM
The Spurs look like dogsh!t without Gay these last 3 games. He might be our glue guy MVP this season. I hope he heals up soon.

And Metu, OMG, kid needs to get to Austin ASAP.

Thanks Timvp! :tu

MultiTroll
11-11-2018, 12:24 PM
While any win against the Rockets is worth at least a subtle fist pump, this one was ugly. Houston was at the end of a five-game road trip and they looked a few steps slow. Add in a barrage of missed open jumpers by the Rockets and the Spurs didn't so much win this game as they managed (just barely at times) to not beat themselves.
Concur.

I will say HardenRef skewed the scoreboard but that's
:lol todays NBA.

Timmy Duncs had to deal with it. It aint going away.

Chinook
11-11-2018, 12:40 PM
One other thing I'll say is that I'm not sure if DeRozan will be the same type of player now that White is back. Dude isn't an off-ball guy, and with LMA needing to eat, they can't exactly do the switch-off thing DeMar and Lowry did. The real benefit to Derrick being back should be that they can limit DeRozan's minutes, but dude played 39 minutes despite having a number of stretches where the game where he should have been able to rest. Derrick has played 42 of his 46 minutes with DeRozan this year. Why? Like sure, their ceiling is higher with White playing anyway, but if he's just going to take touches away from DeRozan without limiting the wear and tear on DeMar's body, I don't think Pop's using him right.

The obvious retort to this argument is that Pop will stagger minutes better when he has Gay available. But there's still decent money on Pop starting Rudy along with the guards and in place of Cunningham. And if Rudy starts, history suggests that Pop will still find ways to have minutes without any of White, DeRozan, Gay or Aldridge on the court. I hope I'm wrong in this, though, and Pop instead makes sure to keep two of those players on the court at the same time. Should be doable, even if Rudy has to play like 24 mpg going forward.

ceperez
11-11-2018, 12:46 PM
One other thing I'll say is that I'm not sure if DeRozan will be the same type of player now that White is back. Dude isn't an off-ball guy, and with LMA needing to eat, they can't exactly do the switch-off thing DeMar and Lowry did. The real benefit to Derrick being back should be that they can limit DeRozan's minutes, but dude played 39 minutes despite having a number of stretches where the game where he should have been able to rest. Derrick has played 42 of his 46 minutes with DeRozan this year. Why? Like sure, their ceiling is higher with White playing anyway, but if he's just going to take touches away from DeRozan without limiting the wear and tear on DeMar's body, I don't think Pop's using him right.

The obvious retort to this argument is that Pop will stagger minutes better when he has Gay available. But there's still decent money on Pop starting Rudy along with the guards and in place of Cunningham. And if Rudy starts, history suggests that Pop will still find ways to have minutes without any of White, DeRozan, Gay or Aldridge on the court. I hope I'm wrong in this, though, and Pop instead makes sure to keep two of those players on the court at the same time. Should be doable, even if Rudy has to play like 24 mpg going forward.

Still too early to tell if White and DeRozan can play well together. At least we know that White can help Aldridge's game. Between the 3, I hope they can figure it all out!

Perhaps DeRozan is having problems in that he doesn't have Gay to assist to?

Ed Helicopter Jones
11-11-2018, 02:11 PM
One other thing I'll say is that I'm not sure if DeRozan will be the same type of player now that White is back. Dude isn't an off-ball guy, and with LMA needing to eat, they can't exactly do the switch-off thing DeMar and Lowry did. The real benefit to Derrick being back should be that they can limit DeRozan's minutes, but dude played 39 minutes despite having a number of stretches where the game where he should have been able to rest. Derrick has played 42 of his 46 minutes with DeRozan this year. Why? Like sure, their ceiling is higher with White playing anyway, but if he's just going to take touches away from DeRozan without limiting the wear and tear on DeMar's body, I don't think Pop's using him right.

The obvious retort to this argument is that Pop will stagger minutes better when he has Gay available. But there's still decent money on Pop starting Rudy along with the guards and in place of Cunningham. And if Rudy starts, history suggests that Pop will still find ways to have minutes without any of White, DeRozan, Gay or Aldridge on the court. I hope I'm wrong in this, though, and Pop instead makes sure to keep two of those players on the court at the same time. Should be doable, even if Rudy has to play like 24 mpg going forward.

I agree with this post. DeRozan needs the ball in his hands. Use White to keep DD fresh and let White play off the ball when they’re out there together. Get DeRozan down to 32-35 minutes a game but let him run the offense when he’s out there.

TD 21
11-11-2018, 06:11 PM
Judging by what we saw tonight,

he's a legit 6-foot-4 point guard who plays bigger and faster than he looks at first glance
-- and does so with a high basketball IQ and advanced playmaking abilities.



Good observation. I was thinking the same thing.

He looks like he'll be what I thought: A better shooting Delon Wright, which means a high quality third guard and an archetype that meshes well in any lineup.

He ideally shouldn't be utilized as the lone creator on a unit, but with Murray out for the season and the dearth of them on this roster, he's going to have to serve as that some going forward to give DeRozan more rest.




(In fact, Cunningham really shouldn't be starting anymore. We'll see if Pop is starting to come to that realization or if it was just foul trouble that limited Cunningham's minutes.)



In an ideal world, of course not. On this poorly constructed roster, he's going to have to in obvious matchups. In ones where they don't need him to serve as a designated primary defender, starting Forbes makes more sense.

Either way, he needs to stop loitering on the baseline, cluttering up the spacing, space to 3 more and be more willing to let it fly.



Derrick has played 42 of his 46 minutes with DeRozan this year. Why? Like sure, their ceiling is higher with White playing anyway, but if he's just going to take touches away from DeRozan without limiting the wear and tear on DeMar's body, I don't think Pop's using him right.

The obvious retort to this argument is that Pop will stagger minutes better when he has Gay available. But there's still decent money on Pop starting Rudy along with the guards and in place of Cunningham. And if Rudy starts, history suggests that Pop will still find ways to have minutes without any of White, DeRozan, Gay or Aldridge on the court. I hope I'm wrong in this, though, and Pop instead makes sure to keep two of those players on the court at the same time. Should be doable, even if Rudy has to play like 24 mpg going forward.

Exactly. They can have their cake and eat it too. White needs to sub out at the under 6 timeout in the 1st/3rd, then sub back in for DeRozan late in each quarter and sub back out when DeRozan returns early 2nd/4th, with a decision made on closing during the game (he should clearly generally close though). That should put his average around 30 mpg.

Gay can be utilized the same way.

tbdog
11-11-2018, 08:17 PM
If DD and white cannot work, them Murray and DD can't either.

SAGirl
11-11-2018, 10:48 PM
I don't understand how this keeps happening. Bertans is often in good position and defends well all the way to the bucket, but it seems like EVERY shot he defends goes in.:wtf

Why is that? I think it's psychological ... NBA players look at Bertans and say "Here's another soft white Euro ... let me make him my bitch." And then they do! Wtf???
I think he's very weak... Too easy for NBA players to move off his spot.

SAGirl
11-11-2018, 10:50 PM
The opponents are instructed by the coaching staff to force the shot when guarded by Bertans (and Mills, Forbes). Why force a shot against a better defender.

So this adds to the confidence. Also, I think Bertans just bounces of players in contact, so it doesn't actually alter a shot.
This

Truth4sale$
11-12-2018, 12:44 PM
Very impressed with the play of of Forbes and White. The swing players performan remain in flux, and therefore a weak link. Cunningham is solid in the right matchups but Qpon is not the solution. Not sure why with both Gasol and Poeltl out, the Spurs dont bring up a more competent center in Amindah Brimah, who should have the other two way contract. Metu is not ready for the big time, he needs to be in the gleague already.

rjv
11-12-2018, 03:15 PM
if metu is getting minutes, i really can't see why walker won't whenever he returns.

superbigtime
11-12-2018, 08:07 PM
Thank you for the grades.

Really pleased w Forbes.

Is Marco really an asset?