Popovich: Kawhi Was Not a Leader

[Kawhi_6rings]

Because Pop should be retired, at a certain point old men give no fucks anymore

Lmao anyone thinking Porker or Kawhi were leaders

kachoke is not a leader

[Spurs Homer]

how is he going to be leader if his not the franchise player? when patfo chase lma in free agency, kowtow to him to make him happy (more offensive touches) at the expense of kawhi being the focal point of the team to be built around...

then u had the vets, undermining whatever kawhis rise ... do u think enrique was willing to hand over the keys?

shouldve just kept kawhi for the season, get rid of enrique, lma, pau, mills, ginoboli....actually get rid of the vets

Except all of that proves false - when you remember that on the court -

Pop gave the keys to Kawhi on everything.
Parker was instructed to hand kawhi the ball and gtfo of the way.

Kawhi would handle the ball for 18 secs of the shot clock and if he had nothing he would dump it off to LA and kawhi's nut riders would crucify LA.

Most of the time however - it worked ok and Kawhi was the focal point of the offense and it went pretty well - until - Pachulia happened and then until


the quitting.

[Spurs fever]

Why wasn't this a story when Leonard took a shot at Pop by saying Nurse listened to his players? It makes me wonder if Pop got wind of that, because before it seemed like he didn't care to address anything Kawhi related. Guess this ain't gonna die anytime soon.

[DPG21920]

Pop sounds very, very hypocritical.

You have a hottie and always tell friends that your girl "is the most beautiful girl in the world", she breaks up with you and suddenly you say "doesn't matter. she's...ugly af"

Saltiness.

Except Pop even said just now that hes a great player. Kawhi proved he was not a leader last year, agree?

[DPG21920]

Det contradicting truthbomb!

#endthread

That literally was not a contradiction at all and verifies exactly what most are saying.

[cpds421]

Nephew’s camp will probably leak new details about what happened last year when the Spurs host the Raptors, just to mess up with Pop and the organization minds.

Fuck the Nephew. Don’t care if he helped the organization to win their 5th championship. What he did last year was unprofessional.

[Ginobilly]

I can't wait for the award winning documentary 10 years from now to truly know what really happened between all of them. There's bad blood,wwe style, between all of them.

[Chinook]

-I'm surprised Pop went there. That was a classic opportunity for Pop to dodge the question. But the question was so ridiculous that I guess Pop felt he had to be honest.

Yeah, Pop said this knowing full well how it was going to come off. This isn't a case like with Parker back in the day when there were translation/cultural barriers that could create awkward soundbites. Dude tries too hard to be loved by the league to do this by mistake. It's a different matter as to the motivation for saying this. I do think he's frustrated seeing how differently the paths have gone since the trade. Leonard hasn't been all that good, but his team looks great. There's a legit chance that Toronto wins a title and Leonard gets his second finals MVP, which likely settles the questions of who was right in the minds of the laity. Pop clearly didn't want to coach a rebuilding team and made win-now moves. That he may miss the playoffs for the first time since his first half-season the same year when Leonard has this success is probably pretty galling.


-Any comparisons to Duncan turned out to be unfounded.

This was obvious for a long time though. Tim was plenty vocal. He always got in the huddles, pulled guys aside, cheered folks on, etc. I'd argue Tim was more vocal than anyone currently on the roster. Dude just didn't like giving interviews.


Nephew's response to Pop's quote was fine.

Certainly suggests that there's more personal bad blood between the two men (not just between Kawhi's camp and PATFO as an entity), than I think some assumed. Really a sign of cracks under the hood of the team. They've been put through the ringer recently with more than just Kawhi. I could see a ton of changes in the entire business by the time LMA and DMDR are free agents.


Having watched Nephew quite a bit this year, I'd say he's about 80% of his 2017 offensive self and about 40% of his DPOY defensive self. Still damn good obviously but it'll be interesting to see if he can ever return to his former level of play. Maybe he'll reach peak level once he's completely healthy. We'll see.

You may know more than I do, but I really do buy the idea that the Spurs believe Leonard has a chronic injury that will hamper him for the rest of his career. It's an open question as to whether this Kawhi is worth the DPE. At his current level, I don't think he is worth it, even if he plays the whole post-season. He'd be worth a normal Bird-max just for the upside, but the DPE is a team-killer in pretty much every case. It's astonishing how stupid the owners were for letting that mess get into the CBA. Without it, I do think Leonard is still a Spur.


That protected pick the Raptors owe the Spurs is almost 100 percent guaranteed to convey. They'd have to lose Nephew and Lowry for the season for the protection to be in jeopardy (basically, it'll convey to the Spurs as long as the Raptors win at least 48-50 games).

Still gotta hope it's not 30 though. I mean, 30 is better than nothing, but 25ish would give them more options to move up or down the board given that their second is likely to be the 40s again.

[Old School 44]

I do believe Pop was a little salty. Ask yourself this question, if Kawhi was still with the Spurs and Pop was asked the same question, how do you think he'd respond? Probably just like Nick Nurse, and any other coach trying to appease his star player. I did find it interesting that Nurse chose to use the word "good" vs "great". :stirpot:

[acoelho1]

Whether or not Pop contradicted himself is irrelevant. KL is not a leader and leading by example is more than just working on your game. Not sitting with your teammates is not a good example. Not communicating to RC or Pop that you are unhappy is not a good example. Not willing to sit down and work things out is not a good example.

Also, I've watched the Raps extensively this year and Kawhi is definitely not himself. I don't think it's rust and he has been training not stop for awhile and had a full training came with 20 games into the season so my guess is that he's still hampered by the same issue he was dealing with the Spurs. They of course will never admit it since it would make them look bad but this Kawhi (although very good) is not the all world 2017 player we saw.

Nevertheless, I'm not as down on this team as some on the forum. Murray is coming back at all star level. The DDR acquisition has been a pleasant surprise and although I still feel like he can't be the #1 option, he is a more than solid #2. Walker is still unknown but man his physical tools are exciting and he showed that he can get whatever he wants on the court.

Before the season, I thought we were a lock for the playoffs but with all the injuries, I think now it's more 50/50 but it's going to be super tough in the west. 1 missed playoffs in 20 years is pretty damn good. Imagine if you were a Knicks fan.

[exstatic]

TBH, this is Pop taking pot shots. In 2017 before Kawhi got Pachulia'd it was obvious who the leader of this team was and who was gonna get us the ring. When Pop says shit like this it only validates Kawhi.

You're confusing 'best player' with 'leader'. Kawhi couldn't lead the starving to a buffet. He's got moves and basketball skills, though.

[duncan2k5]

He brought defense and points and he was a dog when he was with us. He was a pit bull going after that ball. He made people scared to dribble against him and teams scared to give the ball to their best player. BUT I just don't like the idea of paying a player that much money and that much percentage of our cap unless he's a Top 10 player all time or he's a Top 3 player in the game today and also an iron man who plays in at least 75 games a year and sucks up and plays when hurt (injured is different than hurt). And Kawhi was never that to me. We won a lot of games in the regular season and then he choked in the playoffs. You can say it's growing pains, but we only made one conference finals with him and that isn't worth $43 million. Maybe he can lead a team to a championship but I just dont think that he can. I don't mind eating crow if he leads the Raptors to a chip, but if he plays for the Clippers he will never win with them and he will spend the rest of his career proving me right.

U forgot he played on a sprained ankle in the game VS the warriors? Not only was it sprained in that game, it was sprained the week before... This narrative that any pain he got he sat out needs to die

[duncan2k5]

Kobe has 5 seasons of 80+ games. 4 of them he played all 82 games. He has 4 more seasons of playing 77 or more games. Kawhi has ZERO seasons of playing 77 or more games. His career high is 74 and then a whole lot of 60's. Kobe played hurt, he got injured like everyone else but the man played hurt. There's nothing revisionist about it. It's just more evidence that you don't actually follow basketball.

Kobe played for 20 seasons... This is Kawhi's 8th...how can u compare the two? In kobes first 8 seasons, he only played one full season... Stop the bullshit narrative that he played through everything... Lebron is a better example of being an iron man...

[DPG21920]

:lol I can’t believe how many seemingly adults on here can’t grasp the concept of “great player” vs “leader”. You can lead a team to a title and not be a good leader. You can even argue the merits of what is more important; talent vs leadership. But there is no arguing that Pop said Kawhi is a great player and a bad leader. They are both true.

[DPG21920]

U forgot he played on a sprained ankle in the game VS the warriors? Not only was it sprained in that game, it was sprained the week before... This narrative that any pain he got he sat out needs to die

No. It doesn’t. He absolutely could have played last year and did not. That’s what you go off of. Not anything else.

[wildbill2u]

Leaders don't fuck teammates' wives, tbh.

Cmon Man. That's a perk for the leader over the bench guys. If they don't like it, they can work harder and start.

[Hoops Czar]

:lol I can’t believe how many seemingly adults on here can’t grasp the concept of “great player” vs “leader”. You can lead a team to a title and not be a good leader. You can even argue the merits of what is more important; talent vs leadership. But there is no arguing that Pop said Kawhi is a great player and a bad leader. They are both true.


If you can demand a trade, complain about your touches and check out in games and still be considered a leader like Aldridge, then Kawhi could still be considered a leader eventhough he quit on the organization for reasons unknown unless there's some sort of double standard that I'm not aware of.

[JeffDuncan]

:lol I can’t believe how many seemingly adults on here can’t grasp the concept of “great player” vs “leader”. You can lead a team to a title and not be a good leader...

Ok, which teams have won the title with bad leadership? And who was the lousy leader who led them to that horrible fate of winning it all?

[DPG21920]

If you can demand a trade, complain about your touches and check out in games and still be considered a leader like Aldridge, then Kawhi could still be considered a leader eventhough he quit on the organization for reasons unknown unless there's some sort of double standard that I'm not aware of.

Now I remember why I stopped posting here as much :lol

[DPG21920]

Ok, which teams have won the title with bad leadership? And who was the lousy leader who led them to that horrible fate of winning it all?

Jordan. Kobe.

[TheGreatYacht]

If you can demand a trade, complain about your touches and check out in games and still be considered a leader like Aldridge, then Kawhi could still be considered a leader eventhough he quit on the organization for reasons unknown unless there's some sort of double standard that I'm not aware of.

Now I remember why I stopped posting here as much :lol
aaaaaaand DPG is not countering valid points as per usual :lol

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Yeah, Pop said this knowing full well how it was going to come off. This isn't a case like with Parker back in the day when there were translation/cultural barriers that could create awkward soundbites. Dude tries too hard to be loved by the league to do this by mistake. It's a different matter as to the motivation for saying this. I do think he's frustrated seeing how differently the paths have gone since the trade. Leonard hasn't been all that good, but his team looks great. There's a legit chance that Toronto wins a title and Leonard gets his second finals MVP, which likely settles the questions of who was right in the minds of the laity. Pop clearly didn't want to coach a rebuilding team and made win-now moves. That he may miss the playoffs for the first time since his first half-season the same year when Leonard has this success is probably pretty galling.

Agree with most of what you said, but Pop was making piss poor moves in free agency. The roster surrounding Kawhi was a dumpster fire. LMA can't play well with other all stars and upping Gasol and Patty to nearly 100M combined is just laughable.

Kawhi is on a legit title contender, he's looking good sadly while the Spurs have nothing to build around moving forward. Murray's ceiling is that maybe of an all star but if DD and LMA are you top 2 players you're always gonna be luck to finish with a low playoff seed.

[bic50]

kachoke made of glasses:eyebrows
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4826/44239393730_66b6fde06c.jpg
So bitter

[bic50]

You're confusing 'best player' with 'leader'. Kawhi couldn't lead the starving to a buffet. He's got moves and basketball skills, though.
Typically your best player is your leader. Pop would be calling Kawhi their leader if he was still a Spur today

[DPG21920]

aaaaaaand DPG is not countering valid points as per usual :lol

I’ve already explained this. You can choose to ignore it if you wish. No one is saying LMA is some amazing leader; people are saying that the way LMA handled wanting out vs how Kawhi handled it show the gulf between the two. LMA, for his short-comings, handled his business like a solid leader would. Kawhi did not.

[bic50]

:lol I can’t believe how many seemingly adults on here can’t grasp the concept of “great player” vs “leader”. You can lead a team to a title and not be a good leader. You can even argue the merits of what is more important; talent vs leadership. But there is no arguing that Pop said Kawhi is a great player and a bad leader. They are both true.
He didn't say he was a bad leader. How can you lead a team to a title and not be a good leader? How can that even be accomplished?

[bic50]

I’ve already explained this. You can choose to ignore it if you wish. No one is saying LMA is some amazing leader; people are saying that the way LMA handled wanting out vs how Kawhi handled it show the gulf between the two. LMA, for his short-comings, handled his business like a solid leader would. Kawhi did not.
No

[Hoops Czar]

I’ve already explained this. You can choose to ignore it if you wish. No one is saying LMA is some amazing leader; people are saying that the way LMA handled wanting out vs how Kawhi handled it show the gulf between the two. LMA, for his short-comings, handled his business like a solid leader would. Kawhi did not.

How do we know Kawhi wanted out and that the whole fake injury nonsense wasn't orchestrated by his uncle because he wanted him in LA? Let's not act like Kawhi didn't make several comeback attempts throughout the course of the season.

LMA demanding to be traded because Kawhi is taking away his touches :cry is not what leaders do.

[DPG21920]

No

Yes.

[exstatic]

Typically your best player is your leader. Pop would be calling Kawhi their leader if he was still a Spur today

Avery Johnson led this team from the day he got here until the day he left, and that was with two HOF big men on the squad. He was never better than the 5th to 7th best player on the Spurs.

[duncan2k5]

On the SportsCenter FB comment thread for this again almost everyone is in favor of Pop calling out Kawhi for being a quitter.

Spurs fans

[DPG21920]

He didn't say he was a bad leader. How can you lead a team to a title and not be a good leader? How can that even be accomplished?

Well, in the context of everything that has been said/discussed it’s pretty straightforward and I don’t understand your comprehension problem here.

We know what Pop meant with those comments; everyone knows Kawhi was a terrible leader. You can lead a team to a title because you are mega talented and have a great supporting cast full of professionals with leadership coming from other places. I don’t understand your questions.

Being a great talent, does not mean you are a good leader. Conversely, if your team and you are talented enough, you can overcome a lack of leadership and still win.

[DPG21920]

How do we know Kawhi wanted out and that the whole fake injury nonsense wasn't orchestrated by his uncle because he wanted him in LA? Let's not act like Kawhi didn't make several comeback attempts throughout the course of the season.

LMA demanding to be traded because Kawhi is taking away his touches :cry is not what leaders do.


:lol

[Fusternino]

Agreed on MJ being a terrible leader. I honestly wonder if there's an alternate universe where his teams have LeBron style implosions and he goes 1-5 in the Finals, etc.

[duncan2k5]

No. It doesn’t. He absolutely could have played last year and did not. That’s what you go off of. Not anything else.

That's ur opinion... I'll trust the professionals... Even spurs doctors ended up agreeing with Kawhi's better doctors

[bic50]

Well, in the context of everything that has been said/discussed it’s pretty straightforward and I don’t understand your comprehension problem here.

We know what Pop meant with those comments; everyone knows Kawhi was a terrible leader. You can lead a team to a title because you are mega talented and have a great supporting cast full of professionals with leadership coming from other places. I don’t understand your questions.

Being a great talent, does not mean you are a good leader. Conversely, if your team and you are talented enough, you can overcome a lack of leadership and still win.
Pop didn't say he was terrible leader. You can't lead a team to a title and not be a leader weather the leadership is supposedly coming from other places. You need your best player to lead

[duncan2k5]

I’ve already explained this. You can choose to ignore it if you wish. No one is saying LMA is some amazing leader; people are saying that the way LMA handled wanting out vs how Kawhi handled it show the gulf between the two. LMA, for his short-comings, handled his business like a solid leader would. Kawhi did not.

LMA demanded a trade and didn't give a reason until he couldn't be traded

[Hoops Czar]

On the SportsCenter FB comment thread for this again almost everyone is in favor of Pop calling out Kawhi for being a quitter.
Yet nobody called out Pop for quitting on the organization when he egregiously blew through $98M on Paddy and Pau, which basically sacked the Spurs capspace for the next three years.

[duncan2k5]

Who cares if he is a great leader or not? Curry isn't a great leader... Neither is Durant... Neither was MJ... but u wouldn't trade them for patty mills... I'll take Kawhi not being a great leader and single-handedly raping the warriors in the playoffs VS our current leaders choking massively

[Hoops Czar]

Who cares if he is a great leader or not? Curry isn't a great leader... Neither is Durant... Neither was MJ... but u wouldn't trade them for patty mills... I'll take Kawhi not being a great leader and single-handedly raping the warriors in the playoffs VS our current leaders choking massively
Neither is Lebron.

[JeffDuncan]

Jordan. Kobe.

Ok, your definition of leader is that those who win the most are the worst. Gotcha.

[BatManu20]

Russillo with the goods


1067154579240845312

[bic50]

Yes.
So he couldn't take up leadership on the court but somehow is a leader because he decided to stay after he wanted to leave?

[DPG21920]

Ok, your definition of leader is that those who win the most are the worst. Gotcha.

:lol What? There are plenty of winners who are great leaders too: Timmy, Lebron, etc.. I feel like Im taking crazy pills.

[DPG21920]

That's ur opinion... I'll trust the professionals... Even spurs doctors ended up agreeing with Kawhi's better doctors

No they didn’t. They cleared Kawhi to play.

[DPG21920]

Pop didn't say he was terrible leader. You can't lead a team to a title and not be a leader weather the leadership is supposedly coming from other places. You need your best player to lead

Kawhi led the team in the context of being the best player. He didn’t lead the team in the context we are discussing here with regards to being a good teammate.

[DPG21920]

LMA demanded a trade and didn't give a reason until he couldn't be traded


:lol Even if that were true (its not) its still better by 100x then how Kawhi handled his.

[Fusternino]

LeGM is not a great leader, LOL.

[daslicer]

:lol What? There are plenty of winners who are great leaders too: Timmy, Lebron, etc.. I feel like Im taking crazy pills.

Add Bill Russell, Bird and Magic to that list.

[spurschamps99030507]

bad pro, bad person and bad teammate

[bic50]

Kawhi led the team in the context of being the best player. He didn’t lead the team in the context we are discussing here with regards to being a good teammate.
He lead the team but wasn't a leader? I don't remember anyone of his teammates complain about him when he was on he team.

[Hoops Czar]

:lol What? There are plenty of winners who are great leaders too: Timmy, Lebron, etc.. I feel like Im taking crazy pills.
Great leaders don't throw their teammates under the bus. Great leaders don't hold organizations hostage. Great leaders don't try to get their head coaches fired. Great leaders don't have their own infomercial to announce their next big decision.

[spurschamps99030507]

leader?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ds9PglDW0AInkb2.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ds9PqQGXcAI-nYf.jpg

[bic50]

On the SportsCenter FB comment thread for this again almost everyone is in favor of Pop calling out Kawhi for being a quitter.
Guarantee many are Spurs fans. Kawhi broke them

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Kobe played for 20 seasons... This is Kawhi's 8th...how can u compare the two? In kobes first 8 seasons, he only played one full season... Stop the bullshit narrative that he played through everything... Lebron is a better example of being an iron man...
I didn't bring up the Kobe comparison, somebody else did. You don't actually follow basketball. Isn't it easier to just say that you dont follow basketball then to always be wrong? You can't compare the two bc Kawhi HAS NEVER played all 82 games. There's nothing revisionist about Kobe playing with a sideways pinky nor him sinking 2 free throws with a f***** torn Achilles. Lebron is the ultimate iron man in this age for sure, but Kobe is far more of an iron man than Kawhi. It's like you said, you can't even compare the two. And I didn't bring on this narrative. Is Kawhi hurt? Yes or no? Is he hurt? Bc he's missing games and he's not even hurt by his own admission, by his camps own admission, and his coaches. And YET he still isn't playing. But yes he's an iron man and this narrative that he doesn't play needs to go away. Change your name dude and your affiliation. You're not a Spurs fan

[bic50]

leader?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ds9PglDW0AInkb2.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ds9PqQGXcAI-nYf.jpg
Doesn't even matter. Kawhi looks to have moved on while others stay bitter

[benefactor]

Spurs fans
Sup, ass wiper

[lefty]

Kawhi shitting on the Spurms and their bitter fat fans

[TDomination]

Avery Johnson led this team from the day he got here until the day he left, and that was with two HOF big men on the squad. He was never better than the 5th to 7th best player on the Spurs.

This is pretty accurate. During the Champions Revealed videos between Pop, Manu, Parker and Tim, Tim talks about how Avery Johnson was a true PG and Parker wasn't. They were used to Johnson telling them what to do and where to go while on the court.

[TDomination]

Who cares if he is a great leader or not? Curry isn't a great leader... Neither is Durant... Neither was MJ... but u wouldn't trade them for patty mills... I'll take Kawhi not being a great leader and single-handedly raping the warriors in the playoffs VS our current leaders choking massively

I don't think any spur fan cared how good of a leader Kawhi was or wasn't. I would take Kawhi in a heartbeat if he wanted to come back. I would be ecstatic.

Most of us loved him. He was our new Gervin/Drob/Timmy. He was going to be a legend in SA if he continued here. But then last year happened. It really screwed up the fans they way it all went down. It truly sucks and wish it never happened.

[bklynspursfan]

Great leaders don't throw their teammates under the bus. Great leaders don't hold organizations hostage. Great leaders don't try to get their head coaches fired. Great leaders don't have their own infomercial to announce their next big decision.

Yea I agree with you there. Lebron does not come to mind when I think of great leaders

[bklynspursfan]

No they didn’t. They cleared Kawhi to play.

I mean




After spending 10 days before the All-Star break in New York consulting with a specialist to gather a second opinion on his right quad injury, All-NBA forward Kawhi Leonard bears the burden of determining when he’s prepared to play again, sources told ESPN.

Leonard has been medically cleared to return from the right quad tendinopathy injury, but since shutting down a nine-game return to the San Antonio Spursthat ended Jan. 13, he has elected against returning to the active roster, sources said. If Leonard returns, it will be because he has decided he can manage the pain of the injury, according to the sources.

[TD 21]

Media would have killed Kawhi or any other player after these Pop's comments in previous years. Today? They're questioning Pop's decisions more than Kawhi's leadership.


You're right . . . but too stupid to understand why. It speaks to the way the league is covered today. The national media lines up to kiss superstars asses, essentially whoring themselves out to get an in with their "camp". Like I always say, it's like high-school.

It's also now fashionable to criticize everything Spurs. They never cozied up to them because they didn't play the game within' the game, but it was difficult to bash the most successful franchise of the past 20 years. Now that they've fallen off a cliff, it's open season.





Nah...People say Kawhi was ungrateful for leaving/not playing/whatever. What's about a coach who talks shit in public about a player that helped this team to stay relevant?
Like I've said before, both sides could have handled this better. Now, it's a total mess.

Pop taking shots at a former player, the 'mute' player responds...It's like a parallel world.



It's about damn time this organization stopped taking the high road. It's gotten them nowhere. Their reputation has been dragged through the mud and no American superstar or star that doesn't consider this home was or is coming here anyway.

The scumbag not only refused to play when healthy, but didn't even have the dignity or sense to stay in the same city as the team, while with holding medical information, despite them paying his ass in excess of $18M. There's nothing that can be said to justify that.



So this is your best when someone tells you how bad some of his teammates play against elite competition...

I already criticized Kawhi.
I've said he was unprofessional and let greedy people to take control on a bad situation, that he's not at his MVP level yet...But I don't like when people lie because:

-Toronto already needed him vs good teams.

-They weren't fanboys who compared his leadership to Tim's. Pop started it, not the fans.

:lmao At referring to the 76ers, Celtics and Kings as "elite competition" and reading too much into random regular season games.

On the whole, relative to expectations, he's struggled. The supposed "top 3 player in the world" isn't within' sniffing distance of that.

Of course Pop was going to pretend a few years ago. He was on his team and the best player on it. Now, he can be honest.

[duncan2k5]

No they didn’t. They cleared Kawhi to play.

And he did... But then THEY decided to sit him after he was still feeling pain from their misdiagnosis

[duncan2k5]

I didn't bring up the Kobe comparison, somebody else did. You don't actually follow basketball. Isn't it easier to just say that you dont follow basketball then to always be wrong? You can't compare the two bc Kawhi HAS NEVER played all 82 games. There's nothing revisionist about Kobe playing with a sideways pinky nor him sinking 2 free throws with a f***** torn Achilles. Lebron is the ultimate iron man in this age for sure, but Kobe is far more of an iron man than Kawhi. It's like you said, you can't even compare the two. And I didn't bring on this narrative. Is Kawhi hurt? Yes or no? Is he hurt? Bc he's missing games and he's not even hurt by his own admission, by his camps own admission, and his coaches. And YET he still isn't playing. But yes he's an iron man and this narrative that he doesn't play needs to go away. Change your name dude and your affiliation. You're not a Spurs fan

Fam... U took one guy who played twenty years and pointed out a couple years he played full seasons... Kawhi hasn't even played 8 season yet... U can't compare the two... 8 years in Kobe only had one full season... He missed tons of games the others... Kawhi missed most of his games in the Pop era from Pop sitting starters... Not from actually being injured

[duncan2k5]

You're right . . . but too stupid to understand why. It speaks to the way the league is covered today. The national media lines up to kiss superstars asses, essentially whoring themselves out to get an in with their "camp". Like I always say, it's like high-school.

It's also now fashionable to criticize everything Spurs. They never cozied up to them because they didn't play the game within' the game, but it was difficult to bash the most successful franchise of the past 20 years. Now that they've fallen off a cliff, it's open season.





It's about damn time this organization stopped taking the high road. It's gotten them nowhere. Their reputation has been dragged through the mud and no American superstar or star that doesn't consider this home was or is coming here anyway.

The scumbag not only refused to play when healthy, but didn't even have the dignity or sense to stay in the same city as the team, while with holding medical information, despite them paying his ass in excess of $18M. There's nothing that can be said to justify that.




:lmao At referring to the 76ers, Celtics and Kings as "elite competition" and reading too much into random regular season games.

On the whole, relative to expectations, he's struggled. The supposed "top 3 player in the world" isn't within' sniffing distance of that.

Of course Pop was going to pretend a few years ago. He was on his team and the best player on it. Now, he can be honest.

He did play... And was clearly hurt... Ppl on here were even saying that he should sit... So the Spurs shut him down... He didn't shut down himself...

[DPG21920]

And he did... But then THEY decided to sit him after he was still feeling pain from their misdiagnosis

Wrong.

[Sean Cagney]

Now we can justified Patty's contract.

The money was included for leadership

Pshhhhhhhhh, there is still not way to justify that crap lol.

[Leetonidas]

duncan2k5 still blindly gobbling Kawhis knob I see

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Fam... U took one guy who played twenty years and pointed out a couple years he played full seasons... Kawhi hasn't even played 8 season yet... U can't compare the two... 8 years in Kobe only had one full season... He missed tons of games the others... Kawhi missed most of his games in the Pop era from Pop sitting starters... Not from actually being injured
So then we are in agreement? Kawhi doesn't play 82 game seasons. He doesn't play when he's healthy to do so. He's healthy this year and he is sitting out games. Basically all I'm saying is that I don't think anyone outside of Lebron and Steph Curry are worth max money. I wouldn't pay Kawhi $43 million a year bc he won't give me more than like 70 games and he won't win me a title. We weren't winning the title with him as our number 1 option and I don't see him winning another title unless he joins LeBron. I could very well be wrong but this Toronto team looks like a second round exit to me again. He will leave them and go to LA and lead the Clippers to nowhere. That is looking like the career path that he has chosen and I'm happy for him but I don't want to hear about greatness from him again unless he joins LeBron.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't hate Kawhi like most of the forum and I strongly dislike what Pop has become, but how can anybody claim that Kawhi is a leader? He literally doesn't demonstrate any leadership skills whatsoever:lol

He doesn't speak and his teammates joked about never hearing him talk even before all this smoke occurred between him and the franchise..

There's nothing wrong with that, you don't have to be both the best player and leader(Kobe, Durant, etc), but no need to be delusional..

[Dhbsr555]

Lol the raptors are stacked.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

The media and people who always had issues with Pop and the Spurs being good every season is really loving all this Kawhi shit.

Anybody who actually followed this team knew Kawhi for as great as he was, wasn’t a leader on the team.

The funniest part is folks trying to compare how Tim lead the time to how Kawhi was. You seen Tim all the time gathering the players and getting them to calm down, or pointing and yelling out assignments on the court. Tim would lead on court and sideline huddles and famously was the last person to leave the court after every game. He would wait for every teammate to finish chatting with their friends after games and then dap them up and leave together off the court. Tim just wasn’t a fan of talking to media types but he was always in the ear of his teammates

[SpurPadre]

LMAO at Kabitch saying he shows up to practice every day when motherfucker doesn't even bother attending games he doesn't play.

[Kawhitstorm]

2016/2017. Pop said Kawhi had a leadership style, leading by example.

2018. Pop denied ANY leadership from him.

The geezer is legit SALTY since nobody has stood him up like Uncle Dennis:lol (the bitch in him is coming out since he can't mask it with sarcasm while collecting Ls)

[Kawhitstorm]

Pop sounds very, very hypocritical.

You have a hottie and always tell friends that your girl "is the most beautiful girl in the world", she breaks up with you and suddenly you say "doesn't matter. she's...ugly af"

Saltiness.

He's butt-hurt like the entire anus of Shit Antonio :lol



https://media.giphy.com/media/14c4yIVAVWZgnm/giphy.gif

[ambchang]

Some people still think Elon musk is the best engineer at Tesla.

[Kawhitstorm]

LMAO at Kabitch saying he shows up to practice every day when motherfucker doesn't even bother attending games he doesn't play.

Yeah, waving towels instead of rehabbing has been shown to significantly improve winning percentages :music

[Kawhitstorm]

:lmao At referring to the 76ers, Celtics and Kings as "elite competition" and reading too much into random regular season games.

On the whole, relative to expectations, he's struggled. The supposed "top 3 player in the world" isn't within' sniffing distance of that.

Of course Pop was going to pretend a few years ago. He was on his team and the best player on it. Now, he can be honest.

Talk about contradictions when you are trying to make a claim using the same "random" regular season games:lmao

Kawhi isn't out there going all out for those "random" regular season games unlike MVP chasers like Giannis & Davis. Holla at me when the postseason starts......

[TE]

Been gone a while and I can tell this player fan shit only got worse.

Fortunately I haven’t been around to read the shitposts found upstairs here.

[TE]

:lmao pinked

[TimmyBuckets]

Piiiiiiinked.

Kawhi was never a leader and that's blatantly obvious. Anyway, Kawhi saga is over. Time to move on.

[weebo]

Talk about contradictions when you are trying to make a claim using the same "random" regular season games:lmao

Kawhi isn't out there going all out for those "random" regular season games unlike MVP chasers like Giannis & Davis. Holla at me when the postseason starts......

What happened there partna? :lmao

[Kawhi_6rings]

So bitter
lowry is the leader not kachoke

[Kawhi_6rings]

Jordan. Kobe.
jordan developed player like pippen,grant,kobe was never a leader like mike,kachoke will only made his teammates play worse,just watch how lma struggled to play with him:eyebrowscompare kachoke to mike goat is a joke:reading

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Kawhi is not a leader. Probably part of why the Spurs balked at a max deal. Anyone who compares Kawhi to Duncan and says they’re similar as leaders because they’re both quiet knows nothing about leadership, and was never paying attention to the Spurs for 20 years.

Kawhi is an amazing individual player, and can be a great part of a team, but he lacks the natural leadership skills Tim walked in the door with.

To his credit I think he can, and is, working on developing that, but he’ll never be that kind of player.

I am surprised, though, that Pop pointed that out. He must still be smarting over KL’s departure.

[Kawhi_6rings]

And he did... But then THEY decided to sit him after he was still feeling pain from their misdiagnosis
sorry,it's KACHOKE refuse to play..............

[Kawhi_6rings]

He did play... And was clearly hurt... Ppl on here were even saying that he should sit... So the Spurs shut him down... He didn't shut down himself...
where's the injury report ???:flipoff

[Kawhi_6rings]

Kawhi is not a leader. Probably part of why the Spurs balked at a max deal. Anyone who compares Kawhi to Duncan and says they’re similar as leaders because they’re both quiet knows nothing about leadership, and was never paying attention to the Spurs for 20 years.

Kawhi is an amazing individual player, and can be a great part of a team, but he lacks the natural leadership skills Tim walked in the door with.

To his credit I think he can, and is, working on developing that, but he’ll never be that kind of player.

I am surprised, though, that Pop pointed that out. He must still be smarting over KL’s departure.
see how robinson & timmy how to help develope his spurs even they retired,and kachoke not even contact his teammates & coach staff:pctoss

[Keepin' it real]

bad pro, bad person and bad teammate

The bad boy! ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELRRQIVKHF8

[lefty]

jordan developed player like pippen,grant,kobe was never a leader like mike,kachoke will only made his teammates play worse,just watch how lma struggled to play with him:eyebrowscompare kachoke to mike goat is a joke:reading
Jordan didn’t develop anyone :lol

[Fusternino]

Jordan didn’t develop anyone :lol

Yeah, if anything I've heard he's at least partly responsible for Rodman's deteriorating mental health.

[spurs50_]

I guess Kawhi was in New York being a leader while his teammates we're fighting to win a playoff game

[Brazil]

Is that 12 pages of people trying to argue kawhi is a leader ?

:lmao

[UncleDennis]

I guess Kawhi was in New York being a leader while his teammates we're fighting to win a playoff game

lol or how about when Dennis hid Kawhi in some room, "sequestered away" when the Spurs reps came to visit... he's taken that silent leading to a new level.

I wonder if Dennis and the crew got texts on their phones like some amber alert went off, the Spurs people were in the building and quad-be-damned, he had Kawhi jumping up full NY staircases evading those storm troopers.

[TD 21]

Talk about contradictions when you are trying to make a claim using the same "random" regular season games:lmao

Kawhi isn't out there going all out for those "random" regular season games unlike MVP chasers like Giannis & Davis. Holla at me when the postseason starts......

The difference is, I'm using a larger sample size and virtually every meaningful number backs up what I said.

Sure he isn't. He's been obsessed with his scoring average the past few years. It was clearly one of the things his sleazebag uncle brainwashed him into thinking is important, to get the notoriety they're desperately seeking in order to build his "brand".

[duncan2k5]

So then we are in agreement? Kawhi doesn't play 82 game seasons. He doesn't play when he's healthy to do so. He's healthy this year and he is sitting out games. Basically all I'm saying is that I don't think anyone outside of Lebron and Steph Curry are worth max money. I wouldn't pay Kawhi $43 million a year bc he won't give me more than like 70 games and he won't win me a title. We weren't winning the title with him as our number 1 option and I don't see him winning another title unless he joins LeBron. I could very well be wrong but this Toronto team looks like a second round exit to me again. He will leave them and go to LA and lead the Clippers to nowhere. That is looking like the career path that he has chosen and I'm happy for him but I don't want to hear about greatness from him again unless he joins LeBron.

He was our number one option for one year... The year he was destroying the warriors

[duncan2k5]

Lol the raptors are stacked.

Stacked? Lol... They have the same roster as last year... And no one would call that team stacked

[duncan2k5]

jordan developed player like pippen,grant,kobe was never a leader like mike,kachoke will only made his teammates play worse,just watch how lma struggled to play with him:eyebrowscompare kachoke to mike goat is a joke:reading

So why are everyone on the raps playing better than last year?

[duncan2k5]

The difference is, I'm using a larger sample size and virtually every meaningful number backs up what I said.

Sure he isn't. He's been obsessed with his scoring average the past few years. It was clearly one of the things his sleazebag uncle brainwashed him into thinking is important, to get the notoriety they're desperately seeking in order to build his "brand".

How was he OBSESSED with scoring? He took less than 20 shots per game he never demanded a trade because of his touches

[DPG21920]

How was he OBSESSED with scoring? He took less than 20 shots per game he never demanded a trade because of his touches

Ya, he just demanded a trade because he’s a coward.

[Hoops Czar]

Stacked? Lol... They have the same roster as last year... And no one would call that team stacked
They added Kawhi, Green Siakem and OG to the rotation. How is that the same team as last year?

[Kobe'sAchilles]

He was our number one option for one year... The year he was destroying the warriors
Also the year we beat Houston without him. And once again he got hurt. I don't think we beat Golden St that year anyways. I believe we lose in 6 instead of 4 with a healthy Kawhi. And he was our number 1 option against the Clippers until he couldn't handle it and he gave it up to 38 year old Tim Duncan. He was also our number 1 option when we lost to the Thunder. I get that he's your favorite player but the fact is that he has never won as the man before. Steph Curry has proven he can lead a team to a title and so has LeBron. Everybody else hasn't and that's why I wouldn't pay anyone not named Steph or LeBron that kind of money.

[Hoops Czar]

The difference is, I'm using a larger sample size and virtually every meaningful number backs up what I said.

Sure he isn't. He's been obsessed with his scoring average the past few years. It was clearly one of the things his sleazebag uncle brainwashed him into thinking is important, to get the notoriety they're desperately seeking in order to build his "brand".

Wait, I'm confused. I don't recall Kawhi going out and looking for a certain number. The Spurs desperately needed his increased scoring punch though. He's one of the most efficient scorers in the NBA. Are you saying he should take less shots just so he can look humble and modest in the eyes of his critics? Never heard this argument when he was playing for the Spurs.

[TDMVPDPOY]

media outlets burying pop, but they dont quote his whole answer, just parts of it for sensation news....

yet kawhi took the bait and reply, yet didnt get to hear the reporter tell him the 2nd part of the answer that was left out....

[james evans]

If Kawhi was this bad of a player and teammate, then why are you guys so pissed that he’s gone??? Lol shit, if he was as bad as everyone says, I’d be happy he’s gone. Oh I get it, it’s called “bitterness”

[weebo]

If Kawhi was this bad of a player and teammate, then why are you guys so pissed that he’s gone??? Lol shit, if he was as bad as everyone says, I’d be happy he’s gone. Oh I get it, it’s called “bitterness”

Its a message board. If people don't engage in some sort of point/counter-point argument, then what's the point??

[DPG21920]

If Kawhi was this bad of a player and teammate, then why are you guys so pissed that he’s gone??? Lol shit, if he was as bad as everyone says, I’d be happy he’s gone. Oh I get it, it’s called “bitterness”

Who said he’s a bad player? Show me one person that said he was “bad”

[Fusternino]

I am happy he is gone I just wish we had gotten a better return. Was Toronto at least the 2nd best option? Yes. I still think and will think we had enough leverage with the Clippers to not give up Green to match salary and get back Harris/Harrell/2 picks.

[JeffDuncan]

If Kawhi was this bad of a player and teammate, then why are you guys so pissed that he’s gone??? Lol shit, if he was as bad as everyone says, I’d be happy he’s gone. Oh I get it, it’s called “bitterness”

You've got it. All of the endless crap being posted about Kawhi really translates into wishing he was still here.

[Rusty]

Raptors getting destroyed right now. The game against Warriors will be brutal

[cpds421]

Fun matchup between slowmo and nephew.

[loveforthegame]

Leonard and Anderson talked, shook hands, and hugged after the game.

[Hoops Czar]

Raptors getting destroyed right now. The game against Warriors will be brutal
That was a funny looking kill.

[therealtruth]

That was a funny looking kill.

The scary part is I don't think they've found they're rhythm yet as a team. They've probably still got another couple of gears.

[Hoops Czar]

Leonard and Anderson talked, shook hands, and hugged after the game.

​Attention whore's just doing it for the cameras. He knows he's being watched.

[SAGirl]

Raptors getting destroyed right now. The game against Warriors will be brutal
Eventually 3 pt shooting from all their roleplayers and Lowry killed the Grizzlies. It was a fun game though and one where really 3 pt shooting was the difference. The Raptors are legit. They really have a chance to ring this season IMO. Spurs fan will be salty and I no longer like or think of Kiwi as well as I used to but this thing isn’t personal and I am fatigued from GSW dominance. Go Raptors next game!

[SAGirl]

Leonard and Anderson talked, shook hands, and hugged after the game.
It was odd to watch but :clap

[Hoops Czar]

It was odd to watch but :clap

Only odd to those who believe everything is Kawhi's fault and the GOAT PATFO was caught with their pants down.

[SAGirl]

Only odd to those who believe everything is Kawhi's fault and the GOAT PATFO was caught with their pants down.
I meant it bc of the respective team changes. IMO, Kawhi and Kyle were friends or at least what passes for friends in Kawhis world. They trained together in the summer since Kyle was a rookie (with the exception of the injured one, last one).

[YGWHI]

I meant it bc of the respective team changes. IMO, Kawhi and Kyle were friends or at least what passes for friends in Kawhis world. They trained together in the summer since Kyle was a rookie (with the exception of the injured one, last one).

Agree. Can't remember if it was before or after Grizz-Spurs game, Kyle mentioned Kawhi on his list of Spurs' players "a lot of guys I played with I learned from". He talked about the Big3 and then Danny Kawhi...
You don't hear many Spurs'/former Spurs' players mentioning Kawhi on these days. It seems like Kyle didn't get Pop's memo. :D

[YGWHI]

You're right . . . but too stupid to understand why.

I said I enjoy how narratives changed. I didn't give reasons for...changes because they don't matter. I pick players' side as NBA media does. We need more narratives about players and less about coaches/FOs.


At referring to the 76ers, Celtics and Kings as "elite competition" and reading too much into random regular season games.
Never said it. I said they need him to beat elite teams and needed him to win those games.

Anyway, I wouldn't forget that Sixers/Celtics and Bucks are the teams that Raptors have to beat in their conference.

[gospursgojas]

You've got it. All of the endless crap being posted about Kawhi really translates into wishing he was still here.

You mean to say we wish a FMVP DPOY top 5 player never quit on his team and was still here?

Of course we wish he was still here. But he’s a quitter. People act like spurs wanted to get rid of him. So now “haha look how great he’s doing jokes on you for getting rid of him”. But Kawhi was the one that didn’t want to be here and he quit on his team to force his way out. Yeah he’s doing great now and his team is benefitting from the trade but it’s all bc of one of the biggest bitch moves in sports. Celebrate that if you want.

Fuck Kawhitter.

[Hoops Czar]

You mean to say we wish a FMVP DPOY top 5 player never quit on his team and was still here?

Of course we wish he was still here. But he’s a quitter. People act like spurs wanted to get rid of him. So now “haha look how great he’s doing jokes on you for getting rid of him”. But Kawhi was the one that didn’t want to be here and he quit on his team to force his way out. Yeah he’s doing great now and his team is benefitting from the trade but it’s all bc of one of the biggest bitch moves in sports. Celebrate that if you want.

Fuck Kawehitter.

Looks like the players that got left at the alter are more understanding than the fans. Go figure. Maybe there's more to this story after all.

[JeffDuncan]

Of course we wish he was still here.

Yep.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I am happy he is gone I just wish we had gotten a better return. Was Toronto at least the 2nd best option? Yes. I still think and will think we had enough leverage with the Clippers to not give up Green to match salary and get back Harris/Harrell/2 picks.

That would’ve been an incredible trade if that offer was actually on the table.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I said I enjoy how narratives changed. I didn't give reasons for...changes because they don't matter. I pick players' side as NBA media does. We need more narratives about players and less about coaches/FOs.
[COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]

Never said it. I said they need him to beat elite teams and needed him to win those games.

Anyway, I wouldn't forget that Sixers/Celtics and Bucks are the teams that Raptors have to beat in their conference.




Raps will cruise to the finals unfortunately

[Dverde]

Ibaka going to turn into a pumpkin when the playoffs happen. I think’ll they’ll make the conference finals. Nephew won’t go all out when he starts to get banged up.

[therealtruth]

The regular season probably doesn't mean much for Kawhi. It's playoffs where he will step up his game and remind you why the Spurs were leading the Warriors by 20 on their homecourt in 2017 WCF.

[exstatic]

You've got it. All of the endless crap being posted about Kawhi really translates into wishing he was still here.

I don't wish he was still here. He was obviously unhappy here, and shouldn't still be a Spur. However, he was a complete piece of shit in the WAY that he left. That's what folks are still angry about. He'll also never have his number retired here, or likely anywhere. If Orlando didn't retire Shaq after 3 All NBA seasons, and him just straight leaving, there's no way the Spurs reward that knife in the back job that his family did on them.

[JeffDuncan]

I don't wish he was still here. ...

When people are glad somebody's gone, that's about all they say: "I'm sure glad he's gone." They don't much care how he left.

[SpurPadre]

When people are glad somebody's gone, that's about all they say: "I'm sure glad he's gone." They don't much care how he left.

Not true. I'm glad Kyle Anderson is gone but I have no ill-will towards him because he went about it the right way. I was glad Matt Bonner retired because I thought he was one of the worst NBA players I had ever seen but even I acknowledge that he's a nice guy who means well and endeared himself to the organization. Kawhi's handling of his exit was completely unethical and reflects poorly on him as a person. I care about that because I have principles. Many here do too.

[TD 21]

Wait, I'm confused. I don't recall Kawhi going out and looking for a certain number. The Spurs desperately needed his increased scoring punch though. He's one of the most efficient scorers in the NBA. Are you saying he should take less shots just so he can look humble and modest in the eyes of his critics? Never heard this argument when he was playing for the Spurs.


He's not even All Star level this season. +1.57 RPM, and a measly +0.25 DPRM. Maybe now Spurfan and Kawhi fanboys will finally see what I saw the last two seasons as Kawhi transitioned from a killer all-around player into trying to be the next Jordan/Kobe. He ball stops. He's too mid-range dependent (his percentage of attempts from the midrange are the highest they ever been). Relatively poor dribble drive game. I used to argue blue in the face with the likes of YGHWI and those that wanted to see Kawhi drop 30 every night that he would be a much better overall player if he were B on offense (20-21ppg range) and just continued wreaking havoc on the defensive end. But Kawhi thinks he's a Jordan, Durant, Lebron level offensive talent. He isn't. Doesn't mean he can't be an MVP level player, but that's going to take a recommitment to defense and knowing his role on offense.



I said I enjoy how narratives changed. I didn't give reasons for...changes because they don't matter. I pick players' side as NBA media does. We need more narratives about players and less about coaches/FOs.
[COLOR=#222222][FONT=Verdana]

Never said it. I said they need him to beat elite teams and needed him to win those games.

Anyway, I wouldn't forget that Sixers/Celtics and Bucks are the teams that Raptors have to beat in their conference.





Nah, you're just the definition of a fanboy. Any rationale, unbiased person, would treat each case as its own separate entity and not make blanket statements.

We don't need more ass kissing of the divas who are destroying team building in the league. We have more than enough of that as is.

[duncan2k5]

They added Kawhi, Green Siakem and OG to the rotation. How is that the same team as last year?

Huh??? Did u watch any games last year? They ALL were on the team except Green... And they all played... They have ONE all star... How is that a stacked team? Ur definition of stacked is hilarious... They have a lot of good role players... But no one would say they are stacked... That usually refers to all star players

[duncan2k5]

Also the year we beat Houston without him. And once again he got hurt. I don't think we beat Golden St that year anyways. I believe we lose in 6 instead of 4 with a healthy Kawhi. And he was our number 1 option against the Clippers until he couldn't handle it and he gave it up to 38 year old Tim Duncan. He was also our number 1 option when we lost to the Thunder. I get that he's your favorite player but the fact is that he has never won as the man before. Steph Curry has proven he can lead a team to a title and so has LeBron. Everybody else hasn't and that's why I wouldn't pay anyone not named Steph or LeBron that kind of money.

We didn't beat Houston without Kawhi... Not sure what games u were watching

[duncan2k5]

Also the year we beat Houston without him. And once again he got hurt. I don't think we beat Golden St that year anyways. I believe we lose in 6 instead of 4 with a healthy Kawhi. And he was our number 1 option against the Clippers until he couldn't handle it and he gave it up to 38 year old Tim Duncan. He was also our number 1 option when we lost to the Thunder. I get that he's your favorite player but the fact is that he has never won as the man before. Steph Curry has proven he can lead a team to a title and so has LeBron. Everybody else hasn't and that's why I wouldn't pay anyone not named Steph or LeBron that kind of money.

And that was the same year... U are wording it as if those were two different years... So my point is correct... He was the number one option for only one year

[duncan2k5]

Also the year we beat Houston without him. And once again he got hurt. I don't think we beat Golden St that year anyways. I believe we lose in 6 instead of 4 with a healthy Kawhi. And he was our number 1 option against the Clippers until he couldn't handle it and he gave it up to 38 year old Tim Duncan. He was also our number 1 option when we lost to the Thunder. I get that he's your favorite player but the fact is that he has never won as the man before. Steph Curry has proven he can lead a team to a title and so has LeBron. Everybody else hasn't and that's why I wouldn't pay anyone not named Steph or LeBron that kind of money.

What do u consider leading a team to a title? Kawhi won finals mvp... He was clearly the best player in that series... Just because everyone else played well also means he doesn't deserve it? If that's the case, then no warrior deserves it either... Especially curry since he never won finals mvp

[duncan2k5]

Wait, I'm confused. I don't recall Kawhi going out and looking for a certain number. The Spurs desperately needed his increased scoring punch though. He's one of the most efficient scorers in the NBA. Are you saying he should take less shots just so he can look humble and modest in the eyes of his critics? Never heard this argument when he was playing for the Spurs.

And if u think Kawhi is the reason we lost to the clippers, u are stupid... Pop's inability to defend a simple pick and roll is the reason we lost... Kawhi wasn't the one guarding Blake griffin nor CP3... Kawhi is the reason we even went 7 games with Pop's poor game planning

[DMC]

duncan2K5, why did you quote the same paragraph 3 times?

lol

[duncan2k5]

Ibaka going to turn into a pumpkin when the playoffs happen. I think’ll they’ll make the conference finals. Nephew won’t go all out when he starts to get banged up.

Kawhi went all out everytime he played for us... U act as if he is Tony Parker

[DMC]

Huh??? Did u watch any games last year? They ALL were on the team except Green... And they all played... They have ONE all star... How is that a stacked team? Ur definition of stacked is hilarious... They have a lot of good role players... But no one would say they are stacked... That usually refers to all star players

No one gave 2 shits about the Raptors last year. This year you're still mourning Kawhi so you pretend to care about the Raptors. :lol

[duncan2k5]

When people are glad somebody's gone, that's about all they say: "I'm sure glad he's gone." They don't much care how he left.

Exactly... I will be ecstatic when LMA goes... I won't give a shit how... And I wouldn't say a WORD about him after he does

[Collins21]

Dude can you stop this shit all you do is blow Kawhi!!

[duncan2k5]

duncan2K5, why did you quote the same paragraph 3 times?

lol

I replied as I read the arguments... Lol

[MultiTroll]

Kawhi Leonard, New Balance agree to multi-year shoe deal
more reason that Kawhi will concern himself with Pops leadership comments.

[BillMc]

Kawhi Leonard, New Balance agree to multi-year shoe deal


more reason that Kawhi will concern himself with Pops leadership comments.

It would not surprise me if that was one of the key factors in KL wanting out of SA. Go to a bigger market, play for a coach who lets you get big stats, and we'll give you the money deal. We'll see if he bolts Toronto for bigger LA, even if the Raptors make the Finals.

[MultiTroll]

It would not surprise me if that was one of the key factors in KL wanting out of SA. Go to a bigger market, play for a coach who lets you get big stats, and we'll give you the money deal. We'll see if he bolts Toronto for bigger LA, even if the Raptors make the Finals.
The year he was having legit MVP season, consistent 50/40/90 stuff especially after the start of the 2nd half. CIA Pop pulled it all back and began force feeding LMA under the guise that we had to *get him going*. That was total b.s. I suspect it was LMA pouting about touches.

THAT would be enough to buttfry a lot of players. However I certainly don't condone Kawhis non communicative method of leaving.

I am in the camp that speculates something far more came down that we may never know about.

[RD2191]

He's right, Kawhi was too to lead the tank. :lol

[DMC]

He's right, Kawhi was too to lead the tank. :lol

Since you have nothing behind "too" I have to assume you mean "absent".

[RD2191]

*good lol

[TheGreatYacht]

This comment looks more and more foolish by the game :lmao

The salt is so good

[draft87]

yuck

[draft87]

*comment on Parker/Erin

[YGWHI]

Maybe now Spurfan and Kawhi fanboys will finally see what I saw the last two seasons as Kawhi transitioned from a killer all-around player into trying to be the next Jordan/Kobe. He ball stops.

Not really.He's moving the ball so well. People loved to talk about TP's hockey asts...It's time to start talking about how underrated Kawhi is in this area.

"Leonard can do it all: He can be a go-to scorer or he can lock down the opponent’s best player; he can rebound; he can pass.

...Leonard has become a player who has the strength to fire passes to the perimeter from the paint, and he’s accurate even when pressured.

...Leonard is averaging only 3.1 assists per game this season with the Raptors (and 2.3 for his career), but that doesn’t begin to explain his passing prowess. In the clip above, Leonard gets credited for nothing in the box score even though he’s the one who generates the open shot by driving baseline, drawing the defense, and then delivering a pass that leads to an assist

Leonard logged three assists over the final five minutes Tuesday — including this powerful drive followed by a LeBron-like kickout to Kyle Lowry for the corner 3.

It’s a magnificent play that few players are capable of making, but Leonard isn’t asked to do it as often as Toronto’s other stars, since Lowry runs point and Fred VanVleet handles the bulk of the creating off the bench. But when the Raptors need Leonard to make plays for others, Leonard comes through.

I find that to be Leonard’s best quality: He can morph into the type of player that his team needs, whenever they need it."

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/11/29/18117449/eight-thoughts-warriors-raptors


He's too mid-range dependent (his percentage of attempts from the midrange are the highest they ever been). Relatively poor dribble drive game.
-Kawhi's handles and drives are elite

1068228719779741696

1068315492316631041

-LOL blaming him for this when the kings of taking 1.000 mid-j per game -LMA and DeRozan- are on the Spurs


I used to argue blue in theface with the likes of YGHWI and those that wanted to see Kawhi drop 30 every night that he would be a much better overall player if he were B on offense (20-21ppg range) and just continued wreaking havoc on the defensive end. But Kawhi thinks he's a Jordan, Durant, Lebron level offensive talent. He isn't. Doesn't mean he can't be an MVP level player, but that's going to take a recommitment to defense and knowing his role on offense.
If he were B on offense? Knowing his role on offense??

Kawhi led the Spurs to best win regular season record in franchise history as #1 option. And he's doing exactly the same thing in Toronto. I would call him a true "A on offense."


We don't need more ass kissing of the divas who are destroying team building in the league. We have more than enough of that as is.

Sorry but you don't know shit.

Kawhi and KD gave it all tonight, a fantastic show. Kawhi in the first half then KD in the 2nd then Kawhi again in OT in defensive crucial possessions...

1068350355996639233
"but but he can't play defense anymore..." he does it when matters. Like that steal on Russ in 2014 playoffs to seal the series' win.

If people call them "divas"...give me these divas over narratives about team/coaches/Pop all day.

[Rusty]

Kawhi missed a lot of game winners this season. Only thing disappointing about him

[Truth4sale$]

Popovich sounds bitter, why is he even discussing Kawhi. He could have said no comment. Worry about the players you have their leadership or lack their of. Especially with this team

[TheGreatYacht]

Popovich sounds bitter, why is he even discussing Kawhi. He could have said no comment. Worry about the players you have their leadership or lack their of. Especially with this team
Spurs have all the leadership they need in Patty Mills, even when down 48. According to DPG21920

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Spurs have all the leadership they need in Patty Mills, even when down 48.

If it wasn’t for Patty they would’ve been down by 49 instead!

[TDMVPDPOY]

The year he was having legit MVP season, consistent 50/40/90 stuff especially after the start of the 2nd half. CIA Pop pulled it all back and began force feeding LMA under the guise that we had to *get him going*. That was total b.s. I suspect it was LMA pouting about touches.

THAT would be enough to buttfry a lot of players. However I certainly don't condone Kawhis non communicative method of leaving.

I am in the camp that speculates something far more came down that we may never know about.

he got robbed of an mvp, didnt he had like a 7-1 record against the main contenders for mvp or top contender teams?

[K...]

Kawhi missed a lot of game winners this season. Only thing disappointing about him

I wonder if this is part of the tendinopathy, he can get into a rythm, but gets distracted in dead ball situations by the pain

[Russ]

Kawhi missed a lot of game winners this season. Only thing disappointing about him

He can't have missed more than four . . .

[Brazil]

And if u think Kawhi is the reason we lost to the clippers, u are stupid... Pop's inability to defend a simple pick and roll is the reason we lost... Kawhi wasn't the one guarding Blake griffin nor CP3... Kawhi is the reason we even went 7 games with Pop's poor game planning

:lmao

Matt Barnes ate Kiwi cookies the whole serie

:cry Kiwi is the reason we win :cry Kiwi is not the reason we lose

you must be the most retarded fucker of this board.. and that's saying a bunch

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao

Matt Barnes ate Kiwi cookies the whole serie

:cry Kiwi is the reason we win :cry Kiwi is not the reason we lose

you must be the most retarded fucker of this board.. and that's saying a bunch
Porker was the actual reason you lost that series, tbh. I remember breathing a sigh of relief every time Porker checked in and MVPatty went to the bench.

[YGWHI]

:lmao

Matt Barnes ate Kiwi cookies the whole serie

WTF...The WHOLE series?? Kawhi averaged 23.4 ppg .54FG% until game 6.

He had many great games on both ends in that series.

I can't remember a player having all 7 outstanding games in a series in last 10 years. Neither LeBron/KD did it. They had bad games in playoffs but unlike Kawhii, they had other teammate that took over in Irving/Curry.

[ECOV]

Leaders bring teams together win or lose. You win as team and lose as team to 1 point to 40 points . miss you tim.

[therealtruth]

Porker was the actual reason you lost that series, tbh. I remember breathing a sigh of relief every time Porker checked in and MVPatty went to the bench.

Yeah also TP being bad and Pop not knowing how to defend a pick and roll and Splitter's injury.

[TD 21]

Sorry but you don't know shit.

Kawhi and KD gave it all tonight, a fantastic show. Kawhi in the first half then KD in the 2nd then Kawhi again in OT in defensive crucial possessions...

1068350355996639233
"but but he can't play defense anymore..." he does it when matters. Like that steal on Russ in 2014 playoffs to seal the series' win.

If people call them "divas"...give me these divas over narratives about team/coaches/Pop all day.

Sorry, but I know a hell of a lot more than you. Even many of my detractors have conceded as much.

What does the level of play (in one random regular season game, no less) between 2 of the best players in the league have to do with my calling them divas? You can be a great player without acting like a puke. As a supposed Spurs fan, you should know that.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

:lol Porker not a leader either.

Lol TP on the same level as Kawhiless

[Beartrucci]

Holy shit how unathletic is this lineup :lol

[Brazil]

WTF...The WHOLE series?? Kawhi averaged 23.4 ppg .54FG% until game 6.

He had many great games on both ends in that series.

I can't remember a player having all 7 outstanding games in a series in last 10 years. Neither LeBron/KD did it. They had bad games in playoffs but unlike Kawhii, they had other teammate that took over in Irving/Curry.

:lol average
Matt Barnes made kawhi fucking Leonard his bitch... Matt fucking Barnes.. :cry but he is not the reason we lost :cry it’s all on pop.. give me a fucking break

[bic50]

:lol average
Matt Barnes made kawhi fucking Leonard his bitch... Matt fucking Barnes.. :cry but he is not the reason we lost :cry it’s all on pop.. give me a fucking break
Good thing we have a leader like patty mills

[Brazil]

Good thing we have a leader like patty mills

:lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Good thing we have a leader like patty mills

he can for sure lead the team through a 40+ point loss, something Kawhi could never do

[wolf754life]

Good Job Pop

you the man

#reason for 5 rings

#BobbyHillKNOWZ

Hill was fired by one of his bosses, Gregg Popovich, who thereafter replaced Hill as the Spurs coach. Hill's firing at the time was puzzling to some and deeply angered Hill, considering his previous success and the fact that the poor start to the season was due in large part to injuries to David Robinson and Sean Elliott, the team's two best players.

[TheGreatYacht]

This comment looks more and more foolish by the game :lmao

The salt is so good

[Kawhi_6rings]

So why are everyone on the raps playing better than last year?
LOL.......LOWRY PLAY BETTER ???? NICE TRY

[Kawhi_6rings]

How was he OBSESSED with scoring? He took less than 20 shots per game he never demanded a trade because of his touches
KACHOKE TUERNED LOWRY BECOME 2017 LMA:lol

[duncan2k5]

LOL.......LOWRY PLAY BETTER ???? NICE TRY

One person playing worse out of the entire team... And it is a person who has a stigma for choking in big games

[Gibbz]

Lowry going to work with the mute cancer sitting @ GSW with chronic hypochondriasis.

[duncan2k5]

Lowry going to work with the mute cancer sitting @ GSW with chronic hypochondriasis.

I guess all raps need to do is not play Kawhi and they will win a ring, by ur logic

[Gibbz]

I guess all raps need to do is not play Kawhi and they will win a ring, by ur logic

Raps ain't winning a ring even if Jesus comes back and plays for them.

[duncan2k5]

Raps ain't winning a ring even if Jesus comes back and plays for them.

They'll at least get a chance.... Unlike...

[DMC]

They'll at least get a chance.... Unlike...

We got 5 rings, idiot.

I'll take that over your prognostication of Toronto ringing.

Kawhi was never a leader, ever. All that shit he said about leading by example: Markelle and Jimmy followed his lead on that. What kind of example did he set by fucking his team over, sitting out all year and demanding a trade to a specific team? Not even attending the games. You cannot ignore the body of his work by just surgically removing that huge turd he laid and only focusing on the previous seasons.

But even if you look at his other work, sure he was a fantastic player, quick study, insane defense and rapidly improving on offense, but he always looked like a 1st year player where teamwork was concerned. He was so often not in synch with the team that they had to run Kawhiso to get him looks. Everyone else got their looks in the flow of the game.

[duncan2k5]

We got 5 rings, idiot.

I'll take that over your prognostication of Toronto ringing.

Kawhi was never a leader, ever. All that shit he said about leading by example: Markelle and Jimmy followed his lead on that. What kind of example did he set by fucking his team over, sitting out all year and demanding a trade to a specific team? Not even attending the games. You cannot ignore the body of his work by just surgically removing that huge turd he laid and only focusing on the previous seasons.

But even if you look at his other work, sure he was a fantastic player, quick study, insane defense and rapidly improving on offense, but he always looked like a 1st year player where teamwork was concerned. He was so often not in synch with the team that they had to run Kawhiso to get him looks. Everyone else got their looks in the flow of the game.

Yea... We sure look great without Kawhi getting our shots in the flow of the game while we dump it down to the cancerous black hole named LMA

[Dejounte]

People need to stop bothering with duncan2k5. Dude knows what he's doing. He's going to have his stupid schtick all year trolling people making anti-Spur posts. He will bring no valid points and even presents speculation as facts. Ultimate troll of the year. Probably 40 years old and living in his mom's basement.

[duncan2k5]

People need to stop bothering with duncan2k5. Dude knows what he's doing. He's going to have his stupid schtick all year trolling people making anti-Spur posts. He will bring no valid points and even presents speculation as facts. Ultimate troll of the year. Probably 40 years old and living in his mom's basement.

How was what I just said not factual? Just because u don't like it doesn't make it untrue

[JeffDuncan]

How was what I just said not factual? Just because u don't like it doesn't make it untrue

Factual has nothing to do with it. Kawhi is like a drug to some here. Instead of crackheads they're kawhiheads. They're hooked, and they can't break the habit.

[Kawhi_6rings]

One person playing worse out of the entire team... And it is a person who has a stigma for choking in big games
KACHOKE GET SWEEP BY NUGGETS..................:lol

[Kawhi_6rings]

They'll at least get a chance.... Unlike...
KACHOKE CHOKE AGAINST NUGGETS............LOL:toast

[cool cat]

Real question to ponder, would the Raptors record be any different if they didn’t do the Kawhi-DeRozan trade? I think not.

[Kawhi_6rings]

How was what I just said not factual? Just because u don't like it doesn't make it untrue
LOWRY PLAY BEAT BUCKS & GWS,KAWHI PLAY LOSE BOTH GAME,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,KAWHI IS AN PROVING CANCER,NUFF SAID:toast

[duncan2k5]

LOWRY PLAY BEAT BUCKS & GWS,KAWHI PLAY LOSE BOTH GAME,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,KAWHI IS AN PROVING CANCER,NUFF SAID:toast

They also beat the warriors with Kawhi, and lost to the bucks without him... That's the NBA for u... We won without Duncan... And sometimes won without any of the big 3 playing

[duncan2k5]

Real question to ponder, would the Raptors record be any different if they didn’t do the Kawhi-DeRozan trade? I think not.

The real question (that we know the answer to) is if the raptors are better in the post-season with Kawhi or defrozen

[playbonner15]

They will def be better in the playoffs with Green and Nephew’s defence

[monty4329]

Real question to ponder, would the Raptors record be any different if they didn’t do the Kawhi-DeRozan trade? I think not.

The Spurs record would be, though.

I can't stand the guy, but he is unique. Can you mention anyone with the same efficiency on both sides of the floor?

[RD2191]

Real question to ponder, would the Raptors record be any different if they didn’t do the Kawhi-DeRozan trade? I think not.

LOL.

[cool cat]

The real question (that we know the answer to) is if the raptors are better in the post-season with Kawhi or defrozen

If he plays.

[Kawhi_6rings]

They also beat the warriors with Kawhi, and lost to the bucks without him... That's the NBA for u... We won without Duncan... And sometimes won without any of the big 3 playing
BEARLY BEAT WARRIORS WITHOUT CURRY & GREEN.............NUFF SAID :lol

[duncan2k5]

BEARLY BEAT WARRIORS WITHOUT CURRY & GREEN.............NUFF SAID :lol

But they beat them... Kawhi was beating that same team with a worse roster when we were in the playoffs

[RC_Drunkford]

But they beat them... Kawhi was beating that same team with a worse roster when we were in the playoffs

I wonder what you will do when the Spurs beat the Raptors in January, especially when Kawhi does decide not to play

[duncan2k5]

I wonder what you will do when the Spurs beat the Raptors in January, especially when Kawhi does decide not to play

I'll be happy

[MultiTroll]

They will def be better in the playoffs with Green and Nephew’s defence
SpurFan is salty and rightly so, but Toronto is going to be better in the playoffs if they have a healthy Kwa and Green.

[lmbebo]

Good Job Pop

you the man

#reason for 5 rings

#BobbyHillKNOWZ

Hill was fired by one of his bosses, Gregg Popovich, who thereafter replaced Hill as the Spurs coach. Hill's firing at the time was puzzling to some and deeply angered Hill, considering his previous success and the fact that the poor start to the season was due in large part to injuries to David Robinson and Sean Elliott, the team's two best players.

Hill wasn't a great coach. 3-15 record is abysmal. Injuries played a role. one can only guess front office disagreements.

https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/Hill-s-firing-a-shock-to-Spurs-system-6604128.php

[Kawhi_6rings]

But they beat them... Kawhi was beating that same team with a worse roster when we were in the playoffs
no...............

[DMC]

SpurFan is salty and rightly so, but Toronto is going to be better in the playoffs if they have a healthy Kwa and Green.

Better meaning what exactly, they'll make the ECF? The Finals? Ring? Defiine "better".

[MultiTroll]

Better meaning what exactly, they'll make the ECF? The Finals? Ring? Defiine "better".
Last year they were swept in the 2nd Round.
This year they will do better.
Imo ECFs at least, Finals at best.
Not sure anyone can ring vs WarriorRef in the event the Phaggots represent ABC/Disney/ESPN again in the Finals.

[John B]

Funny how Elliott did not mention Kiwi’s name as possible MVP candidate when he touched on Jokic should be included as possible candidate. He mentioned Giannis, Harden, Russ, AD but conveniently left Kiwi :lol

[Hillary Clinton]

Funny how Elliott did not mention Kiwi’s name as possible MVP candidate when he touched on Jokic should be included as possible candidate. He mentioned Giannis, Harden, Russ, AD but conveniently left Kiwi :lol

Dude has rested like 20 fucking games. It's not even a slight. :lol

[Eras]

Funny how Elliott did not mention Kiwi’s name as possible MVP candidate when he touched on Jokic should be included as possible candidate. He mentioned Giannis, Harden, Russ, AD but conveniently left Kiwi :lol
How can one who shoots 42/24/61 be considered MVP?

[DMC]

Funny how Elliott did not mention Kiwi’s name as possible MVP candidate when he touched on Jokic should be included as possible candidate. He mentioned Giannis, Harden, Russ, AD but conveniently left Kiwi :lol

Bowen was fired for mentioning his name. I'd not touch him with a 10 foot pole.

[Play Boban]

Factual has nothing to do with it. Kawhi is like a drug to some here. Instead of crackheads they're kawhiheads. They're hooked, and they can't break the habit.
truth tsar bombas

[DPG21920]

Bowen was fired for mentioning his name. I'd not touch him with a 10 foot pole.

Dude - Sean works for Spurs and zero chance SA would do anything because of Kawhi.

[BackHome]

Fuck KY and Fuck Kawhiheads :bobo

[DMC]

Dude - Sean works for Spurs and zero chance SA would do anything because of Kawhi.

Seriously? :lol

[DPG21920]

Seriously? :lol

:lol Did I miss some obvious sarcasm

[TimmyBuckets]

Fuck KY and Fuck Kawhiheads :bobo

:bobo

[DMC]

:lol Did I miss some obvious sarcasm

Maybe just a little

[Hoops Czar]

Funny how Elliott did not mention Kiwi’s name as possible MVP candidate when he touched on Jokic should be included as possible candidate. He mentioned Giannis, Harden, Russ, AD but conveniently left Kiwi :lol

Oh, the irony! Spurs fans won't mention him as an MVP candidate either.

[phxspurfan]

Bowen was fired for mentioning his name. I'd not touch him with a 10 foot pole.

Only reason Bowen got fired was bc he announced for a shit team that is desperately trying to get Kawhis services next year. Anywhere else then LA/maybe NY/TOR and he’s fine

[DMC]

Only reason Bowen got fired was bc he announced for a shit team that is desperately trying to get Kawhis services next year. Anywhere else then LA/maybe NY/TOR and he’s fine

Really? :lol

[DPG21920]

Kawhi without Lowry: barely overcomes a double digit deficit due to Danny hitting a 3 vs MIA and gets destroyed by Orlando. Maybe Lowry has more value than people thought.

[Hoops Czar]

Kawhi without Lowry: barely overcomes a double digit deficit due to Danny hitting a 3 vs MIA and gets destroyed by Orlando. Maybe Lowry has more value than people thought.
How 'bout det DeRozen leadership? If DeRozen was even a tenth of the Player Leonard was on his best day, would we ever be talking about Leonard?

[daslicer]

How 'bout det DeRozen leadership? If DeRozen was even a tenth of the Player Leonard was on his best day, would we ever be talking about Leonard?

How about that viagra? Does it still work at 90 years old. I never understood why a 90 year old Cavs fan like you has an obsession with the Spurs. Clearly there was never a Spurs-Cavs rivalry as evident in '07.

[Hoops Czar]

How about that viagra? Does it still work at 90 years old. I never understood why a 90 year old Cavs fan like you has an obsession with the Spurs. Clearly there was never a Spurs-Cavs rivalry as evident in '07.
Don't shortchange me or I'll beat you with my walking stick. I'm a 102 according to that post and I don't need Viagra, I have pictures of your mom from the waste down that'll do the trick nicely. The trick is to cut off the top portion of the picture with a paper shredder so I don't get nauseated looking at that fugly mug.

How's living in your parent's toolshed treating ya? I know it's not a palace but it beats a cardboard box and it's rent free just like Kawhi in your head, right? If you're running low on wag bags, I know a guy that can give you deep discounts but he may ask you for a couple of favors first.

I'm also glad you're bringing up the Cavs in a Kawhi thread. Those tears hurt so bad, you need to change the subject just to help you cope with everyday life.

[daslicer]

Don't shortchange me or I'll beat you with my walking stick. I'm a 102 according to that post and I don't need Viagra, I have pictures of your mom from the waste down that'll do the trick nicely. The trick is to cut off the top portion of the picture with a paper shredder so I don't get nauseated looking at that fugly mug.

How's living in your parent's toolshed treating ya? I know it's not a palace but it beats a cardboard box and it's rent free just like Kawhi in your head, right? If you're running low on wag bags, I know a guy that can give you deep discounts but he may ask you for a couple of favors first.

The Spurs live rent free in your head that's why post here 24/7. Pretty stupid that '07 still bothers you since the Cavs had zero chance to win that series. Out of all the teams you could have picked to obsess about hating you pick the Spurs when they are plenty of other teams that have tormented the Cavs more such as the KG-Celtics and the current Warriors. Then again I can see why you have a strong hatred for the Spurs since the Spurs success with the 5 titles is what you wish the Cavs could have been with Lebron.

:lol It has to suck that you can't even masturbate without using Viagra.

[Hoops Czar]

The Spurs live rent free in your head that's why post here 24/7. Pretty stupid that '07 still bothers you since the Cavs had zero chance to win that series. Out of all the teams you could have picked to obsess about hating you pick the Spurs when they are plenty of other teams that have tormented the Cavs more such as the KG-Celtics and the current Warriors. Then again I can see why you have a strong hatred for the Spurs since the Spurs success with the 5 titles is what you wish the Cavs could have been with Lebron.

:lol It has to suck that you can't even masturbate without using Viagra.


Like I said....

I'm also glad you're bringing up the Cavs in a Kawhi thread. Those tears hurt so bad, you need to change the subject just to help you cope with everyday life.

[DMC]

Kawhi without Lowry: barely overcomes a double digit deficit due to Danny hitting a 3 vs MIA and gets destroyed by Orlando. Maybe Lowry has more value than people thought.

What a lot of people (especially here) seem to ignore is how well a player has adapted to the team. Kawhi just started, I don't expect him to be as smooth and know where people are going to be as Lowry who's been there far longer. Kawhi is an iso player with flashes of team play. He's a throwback in that regard, and in that he plays at both ends instead of taking possessions off on defense. I think he'll be fine, but we're talking about Toronto and Lowry being their 2nd best player (not counting Ibaka). They also lost their big to an injury (Draymond strikes again, and with Lebron as well).

I think Lowry has value on the team but he's regular season hero. Kawhi is the next gear if he cares enough to go there. Toronto better be great on the road in the post season if Kawhi is only going to play every other game.

[DPG21920]

How 'bout det DeRozen leadership? If DeRozen was even a tenth of the Player Leonard was on his best day, would we ever be talking about Leonard?

What does that have to do with Kawhi and TOR? People on here have been discussing how without Kawhi, TOR is winning games (and the reasons for that). Then when it’s reversed and it’s Kawhi but no Lowry, they eek out a win and get destroyed by ORL.

It was a point to say TOR has good players other than just Kawhi and Lowry has a big impact, especially in the regular season.

[Dverde]

With his defensive effort dipping off this year, I don’t think he is a top five player. Somewhere between 7-10. Demar will never be as good as apex Nephew, but I think is a better leader and teammate. He’ll probably have more longevity too. Nephew without his elite defensive skills is a dime a dozen player.

[loveforthegame]

https://www.instagram.com/p/Br-dNppFdkx/

[bic50]

Fuck KY and Fuck Kawhiheads :bobo
Well into the season and you're still this salty. :lol

[bic50]

With his defensive effort dipping off this year, I don’t think he is a top five player. Somewhere between 7-10. Demar will never be as good as apex Nephew, but I think is a better leader and teammate. He’ll probably have more longevity too. Nephew without his elite defensive skills is a dime a dozen player.
Nope

[bic50]

Funny how Elliott did not mention Kiwi’s name as possible MVP candidate when he touched on Jokic should be included as possible candidate. He mentioned Giannis, Harden, Russ, AD but conveniently left Kiwi :lol
Kl missed too many games to get serious consideration imo

[Ignazzz]

https://www.instagram.com/p/Br-dNppFdkx/

Clippers colours

[Hoops Czar]

What does that have to do with Kawhi and TOR? People on here have been discussing how without Kawhi, TOR is winning games (and the reasons for that). Then when it’s reversed and it’s Kawhi but no Lowry, they eek out a win and get destroyed by ORL.

It was a point to say TOR has good players other than just Kawhi and Lowry has a big impact, especially in the regular season.

Kawhi wasn't brought in to win regular season games, he was brought in to win postseason games. Of course Toronto has enough surrounding talent to win 50+ regular season games but their regular season success doesn't translate to the postseason. I personally think it's more damning that Toronto wins games convincingly without Kawhi AND DeRozen.

[Hoops Czar]

With his defensive effort dipping off this year, I don’t think he is a top five player. Somewhere between 7-10. Demar will never be as good as apex Nephew, but I think is a better leader and teammate. He’ll probably have more longevity too. Nephew without his elite defensive skills is a dime a dozen player.

What qualities have you seen in DeRozen that makes you think he's a better leader than Kawhi Leonard? He isn't even as good as baseline Kawhi with a gimp though it would make for a much more competitive comparison.

[Dverde]

What qualities have you seen in DeRozen that makes you think he's a better leader than Kawhi Leonard? He isn't even as good as baseline Kawhi with a gimp though it would make for a much more competitive comparison.

The many Raptor teammates that say they will miss his leadership. He probably returns his teammates texts’ too.

[Mikeanaro]

The many Raptor teammates that say they will miss his leadership. He probably returns his teammates texts’ too.
Uncle is the one returning the messages, nephew cant write.

[daslicer]

Like I said....

I'm also glad you're bringing up the Cavs in a Kawhi thread. Those tears hurt so bad, you need to change the subject just to help you cope with everyday life.

The fact that you are a Cavs fan posting on a Spurs forum 24/7 whenever the Spurs lose shows that you are still bitter about '07. I know you are jealous deep down inside that the Spurs were able to win 5 titles with Duncan while your shit organization was only able to get 1 title out of Lebron.

[duncan2k5]

Kawhi on Toronto is CLEARLY better than when they have DeRozan... No one seriously considered them to even make the finals last year, nevertheless win... U can't compare Kawhi who has only played a quarter season (if that) to Lowry who has been there forever... Of course their chemistry will be better... But as the person said before, they're also winning without demar... Our bench blew out teams when Duncan and Parker sat... But we knew that wasn't sustainable, especially in the playoffs

[YGWHI]

The many Raptor teammates that say they will miss his leadership. He probably returns his teammates texts’ too.
It's funny how some people are willing to believe in Raptors players' comments on Derozan leadership but not in Kawhi's...Those guys are saying the same about Kawhi "he's a good leader...he talks...whatever" :lol

"but but they just want Kawhi to stay. that's why they... :cry "

[Play Boban]

If I saw Kawhitter on the street I don’t even know what I would do tbh.

[Play Boban]

Kawhi on Toronto is CLEARLY better than when they have DeRozan... No one seriously considered them to even make the finals last year, nevertheless win... U can't compare Kawhi who has only played a quarter season (if that) to Lowry who has been there forever... Of course their chemistry will be better... But as the person said before, they're also winning without demar... Our bench blew out teams when Duncan and Parker sat... But we knew that wasn't sustainable, especially in the playoffs
Incorrect. LABron going to the lakers is why the Kawhitters will make the playoffs. It has nothing to do with No. 2.

[YGWHI]

With his defensive effort dipping off this year, I don’t think he is a top five player. Somewhere between 7-10...Nephew without his elite defensive skills is a dime a dozen player.

His advanced def stats are shit since last months of 2016 but he's still an elite defender and keeps winning games on that end.

That's how Raptors won vs GSW/Pacers in Toronto. Kawhi stole the ball from KD/Oladipo hands in crucial 4th q possessions.
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Forced Giannis' airball..
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Defensive effort is there
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Since his main assignment is Simmons
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Saying he's not elite on defense anymore is not accurate.

[YGWHI]

Kawhi without Lowry: barely overcomes a double digit deficit due to Danny hitting a 3 vs MIA and gets destroyed by Orlando. Maybe Lowry has more value than people thought.

There is some context.

Lowry had a healthy Valenciunas and Siakam all games.
Kawhi had to play games without Lowry/JV/Siakam (without 2 starters and best bench player) vs top teams like Denver on the road. Just because he played great it was a close game until last minute

Also, Kawhi has nothing to do with some teammates' slumps
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Raptors have a winning record without Lowry 5-3 but obviously they miss him. He's the starting pg, longest player in Toronto on this roster, and All-Star talent.

However...I've said this before...Having Lowry as 2nd best player/option will be Raptors' biggest weakness in playoffs.

[weeks]

How come we NEVER heard anything about his daughter until he needed a face saving excuse for bailing on the raptors??

[SwansonInSibagat]

Fuck Kawhi.

[Dejounte]

Kawhi stand will still be here even when Kawhi has moved onto his tenth team, ten years later. That's how sad his fans are. Move on. Stop posting on a team forum you don't follow.

[RD2191]

Kawhi stand will still be here even when Kawhi has moved onto his tenth team, ten years later. That's how sad his fans are. Move on. Stop posting on a team forum you don't follow.

Shut yo bitch ass up.

[Dejounte]

Shut yo bitch ass up.

Tough internet guy LMAO