Random Thoughts: Spurs vs. Rockets - Nov. 30, 2018

[timvp]

We had joy. We had fun. We had 21 straight seasons in the sun.

Is San Antonio's streak of 21 consecutive years in the playoffs over? Not quite but it's on life support after the Spurs second straight blowout loss. Friday night's 136-105 home loss comes on the heels of a 39-point defeat in Minnesota. The Spurs are now 10-12 and sit in second to last place in the Western Conference.

Again, handing out grades after a massacre wouldn't be a worthwhile exercise. Just about every player was bad. The coaching was bad. The effort was bad. Almost everything was bad.

-The brightest spot for the Spurs against the Rockets was definitely the play of Derrick White. It's clear that the time is now to force-feed him more minutes. His perimeter defense is far and away the best on the team. He probably has the best court vision. At the very worst, he's a lively body out there who can keep up with NBA athletes -- and that alone is something that not many players on this roster can honestly claim.

White started the second half and that has to be the alignment going forward. I don't care who the rest of the starters are besides White, DeMar DeRozan and LaMarcus Aldridge ... well, as long one isn't Dante Cunningham.

Why is White suddenly a must-start player on the roster? The answer is on the defensive end of the court. DeRozan, after a relatively decent start on that end, has fallen off a cliff in recent games. He's been a disaster defensively as of late and I don't see signs of it improving. And since the same thing happened last year (DeRozan started off strong defensively for the first 20 or so games and then faded), I'd rather have Pop go with White now instead of wasting more time trying to coax more defense out of DeRozan.

The D, or lack thereof, isn't all DeRozan's fault. Teams are starting to realize that Bryn Forbes is a C athlete at best and are beginning to pick him apart. Rudy Gay's mobility comes and goes but has been gone the last three or four games. Cunningham is a slow help defender so he's not doing anyone any favors. Aldridge's defensive intensity wanes from possession to possession; he's not a foundation you can build upon, either.

Start White and hope his defensive prowess can spark the team.

-DeRozan is going to have to learn to play with White. Right now, they have no chemistry but he's going to have to figure it out. If should actually work out for DeRozan if he let's White handle more of the ball-handling and playmaking duties. In theory, that should allow DeRozan to have more energy to attack on each on of his touches ... and allow for him to have more energy for the defensive end of the court.

-After the game, Pop pointed to himself when discussing the offensive woes: "We're obviously discombobulated on offense. So a lot of that has to do with me. I've got to do a better job there."

If my Pop decoder ring is working properly, I believe that's him realizing that despite how much he loves Cunningham's workmanlike energy, starting him just isn't working and is actually killing the offense. Pop knows he has to open up the offense and provide more spacing -- and that starts with putting Cunningham on the bench.

I expect smaller, freer lineups going forward. We'll see.

-Speaking of Pop, let's discuss his status. He's obviously not going to be fired by the Spurs; he basically has a lifetime contract and will coach for as long as he wants. But if things go from bad to worse, would Pop actually step aside?

I don't think so. I just don't see him hanging it up during the middle of the season when he still has the upcoming Olympic coaching duties. That wouldn't be a good look. (And, really, I don't think handing the reins to Ettore Messina or Ime Udoka would improve things in the short-term.)

The more likely scenario is Pop coaching out the season and then reconsidering things this coming summer. There's been talk that he was considering stepping aside at the end of the season and then spending next season traveling around the league to build relationships with the Team USA players. If the Spurs miss the playoffs and Pop is miserable, that's a likely scenario.

Personally, I'm hoping the Spurs can get back on track, make the playoffs and Pop can coach until the day comes he no longer wants to coach. But at times like this, when the Spurs have lost back-to-back games by a combined 70 points, it's an appropriate time to consider Pop's coaching mortality.

-Another tough pill that must now be swallowed is the fact that Aldridge is just not capable of playing anything resembling a complementary role. Last year, he was Option 1A and he was great. But when he's forced to share touches, he's not nearly the same player.

I mean, if we're being honest, that's the reason why he left Portland in the first place. I don't know if he isn't motivated unless he gets constant touches and all the accolades ... or if he just needs constant touches to get into a rhythm.

Whatever the truth is, it puts the Spurs in a difficult spot. DeRozan rightfully needs a ton of touches so Aldridge isn't going to get consistent touches. As a result, the Spurs will have to make do with a version of Aldridge who oftentimes floats on offense and is inconsistent energy-wise on defense.

Pop needs to formulate a system that considers these truths and isn't expecting the 2017-18 version of Aldridge.

-After the Rockets romp, I went and watched the debut of Lonnie Walker IV in Austin. I was impressed. The kid is definitely an A+ athlete who plays with a swagger than may transfer to the NBA and allow him to quickly become a contributing member of the team. On paper, it's unlikely that Walker does anything for the big boys this year because he's about as raw as an NBA player can be today: he didn't go to a powerhouse high school, he went to a university not known for basketball and he wasn't even healthy all of last season.

On paper, Walker is a couple years away. But the Spurs could desperately need athleticism, fearlessness and explosiveness. Walker could help in those areas and I think he should be given a chance once he's completely confident on his knee.

[RD2191]

I've been calling out LMA for years, finally others are starting to notice. Thanks for the write up.

[SAGirl]

I looked at just Walker's highlights but he definitely looks like an explosive athlete with a sweet looking jump shot. Metu is getting some minutes here or there and he (to me at least) looked more raw. Considering how things are going, I am now slightly more hopeful that Walker will get some minutes. Hopefully by the end of the season he has eaten up someone else's minutes, whether that be Cunningham or Marco, or whomever.

Glad to see White play well. Spurs have nothing to lose by starting him, the problem is Forbes there IMO. Spurs really need a small forward but it's a recurrent theme, that allows them to send Forbes to the bench. I don't want to see Forbes/Mills duo, but maybe Walker gets minutes.

Thanks for the random thoughts... I skipped this one bc it was already blow out territory when I tuned in, and there were more interesting things to watch.

[polandprzem]

2nd 2last

How great that sounds. It seems like there is no other way like bounce back but really ... nope.

This team is soooo bad it's astonishing. Aldringe, Derozan and Gay is a clear playoffs squad. We are outplayed real bad and defense is non existent. And as I was predicting that and was shouting that our D will be damn bad there were ppl saying otherwise. We /the spurs duh/ got rid of one of the best defensive duo in NBA. With Kawhi gone we have nothing to offer on that side of the floor. He is one of the best in history. That's unlikely we will have a chance to hire such individual.

Whats wore. pop shaved his beard and it did not helped. Things even got worse after that. I will keep track on it - if he will decide to let some grow.

[BackHome]

Great write up Tim one of your
best I would have to say. Agree with everything you stated for me it’s now all about the draft that is the only way we are going to get better. If we can fall in the 4 to 9 range I think we can get a stud SF which will make a huge impact on next years team. The other is Pop and RC are going to have to make hard decision on who is going to be let go or traded this summer. Besides maybe Deroz and Murray everyone else should be looked at being let go or traded.

One trade I think we can work our and get draft picks would be with Boston they desperately need a big and outside shooters. I would have no problems trading Gasol or Bertans for their first round draft pick.

Rob I think I am coming to your way of thinking of LMA my question to you is what would you do with him? If it’s a trade who do you think we can get or is it a player and draft picks ?

One question I have for you Tim is your thoughts on Ben Moore and Nick Johnson I have been impressed with both players and I think Nick should have a chance to be brought up what are your thoughts.

[MoSpur02]

Trading Aldridge could happen, but for who? Who do replace him with? The only reason he played so well last season is because he was the go to guy. He's not effective unless he's the primary focus on offense. So DeMar either has to learn and accept Aldridge is going to be the first option on offense, Aldridge has to accept he's option 2, or you trade one of them.

That's the only way the Spurs improve. The more likely scenario is the Spurs decide to trade Aldridge. It's on record that in the past he asked for a trade when things were going good so I don't see Aldridge opposed to being traded now.

[SpursDynasty85]

Thanks for the write up sir! I think Metu deserves a mention in his limited time. He is all those things, athletic and explosive, as Walker can be and could compliment Rudy and Bertans as the tandem 3/4. Walker should get some burn too. Belli should be traded. What an epic disaster bringing him back was. He, Mills, and Forbes are ridiculously redundant in the worst possible way (free lay ups and jumpers for opposing gaurds).

[99 Problems]

Might just land a helluva draft pick tbh?

[objective]

Pop's not playing Walker.

First, those pull-up jumpers are a sure way to get benched if he ever does play. One missed pull up off a crossover when guys like DeRozan or Marco or LMA or Forbes or Gay are on the court and he'll get pulled for not being over himself just like White is.

Pop needs to condition Walker first into constantly looking over his shoulder, passively surrendering the ball to Patty Mills, and doubting his own game as worse players get free passes.

But aside from that, there's nowhere for him to get minutes.

Pop will never EVER take Mills down to spot minutes. He can squat on the court and defecate during live play, Pop will just love him more. Such culture.

DeRozan isn't losing minutes. Marco has been even worse than usual but he was the prize of the off-season. They knew he was one of the worst defenders in the league. He has a two year deal. Walker can play after Marco's deal is over. Forbes is now a made man. He's better than Mills, and if Mills won't lose minutes to Walker, neither is Forbes.

[SpursDynasty85]

Pop's not playing Walker.

First, those pull-up jumpers are a sure way to get benched if he ever does play. One missed pull up off a crossover when guys like DeRozan or Marco or LMA or Forbes or Gay are on the court and he'll get pulled for not being over himself just like White is.

Pop needs to condition Walker first into constantly looking over his shoulder, passively surrendering the ball to Patty Mills, and doubting his own game as worse players get free passes.

But aside from that, there's nowhere for him to get minutes.

Pop will never EVER take Mills down to spot minutes. He can squat on the court and defecate during live play, Pop will just love him more. Such culture.

DeRozan isn't losing minutes. Marco has been even worse than usual but he was the prize of the off-season. They knew he was one of the worst defenders in the league. He has a two year deal. Walker can play after Marco's deal is over. Forbes is now a made man. He's better than Mills, and if Mills won't lose minutes to Walker, neither is Forbes.

Somewhat agree and at one point, possibly soon, the season will be lost and Pop will throw in the young guys to develop.

White is looking good. Sometimes that over the shoulder play is good. Tension makes or breaks the players. White will be better for it. Nobody on here is Giannis or KD so they shouldn't get the green light which makes Belli and his long leash a huge headscratcher.

[John B]

Thanks Timvp. I agree with your review. I must add, it all starts with defense. Whatever happen to yanking the player out when they missed their rotation? And should start with Forbes, Mills, Belli even Demar. We might not score, but hey let’s not the other team score too. Set an example to players, if they want minutes play defense.

[Longlonglongtimelurk]

Solid thoughts as always. It’s a shame LMA doesn’t have an iota of Timmy in him. He comes across as a very insecure person who hasn’t managed to ‘get over himself’. If the Spurs could move him or in a package for a young prospect it’s now or never, yes the teams paper thin on bigs but his personality is un-spurslike as they come, his attitude is not something you want in the locker room around young players

[r0drig0lac]

why bellinelli continues with the green light for all those off-balance shots that rarely come in? he is supposed to be a high qi player for st (since he does not have an ounce of athleticism in his body), he should at the very least make the best decision (fake, pass, etc.)

[mo7888]

Good write-up

[RC_Drunkford]

Derrick White is already scared to shoot the ball like Kyle Anderson was. He's passing up a bunch of open looks. I guess it's the old man telling him he will get benched if he shoots the ball

[therealtruth]

One of the rare moments where he actually took credit for the poor play. I guess he couldn't find a way to pass the blame on to the players.

[Keepin' it real]

We had joy. We had fun. We had 21 straight seasons in the sun.

I see what you did there.

https://streamd.hitparade.ch/cdimages/terry_jacks-seasons_in_the_sun_s.jpg

[TheGreatYacht]

Last night we saw a modern day offense go up against a boring outdated system. Senile Pop without HOF talent is the guy we want leading our tank, even if it's unintentional:lol

[weeks]

yeah i'm done with lma.
i'm done with believing in this team at all.

im gonna sit back, enjoy the catastrophe and sip martinis by the poolside while SA burns to the ground

[Harry Callahan]

This group of players no longer has to look into the eyes of Duncan, Parker, and Gino every day. No mettle. Just cashin' checks for most of these guys. The roster is a mess and yes, the guy from California that used to play here is a big reason why.

In some respects, the Spurs will get four number one picks on the roster by next year ready to go. DJM, Walker, Lottery Pick and non-lottery pick.

The guys on the team with fire in their belly are outnumbered. Murray has fire but he is injured - Patty is too limited physically - I really think Lonnie W will play with passion. I think Demar wants to be a big time player. Notice they are all guards? D White will be a good player in time. Say what you will about Forbes, he can be a useful player in the correct role. Notice a pattern still? All guards. No frontcourt players. None.

LMA may get shipped out at the trade deadline to a Contender as well - I just don't trust him to fight through stuff when things don't go well. Boston has some mismatched pieces right now and draft picks. They should have gotten nephew. Danny Ainge always overplays his hand and that team is still not there yet. If you try to screw other teams to the nth degree EVERY SINGLE TIME, people will no longer do business with you.

[Mugen]

:lol Lonnie a "Couple of years away".....man the brainwashing that Pop and the FO have been able to successfully do during this run has been really quite impressive. Even with how raw he is, he'd easily be the 3rd best wing on the team within 10 games of NBA game action....that's how horrible the roster is.

Look, these losses are embarrassing and a tough pill to swallow. But they're a necessary evil for any long-term chance at success this organization has to hopefully shake them out of their old way of thinking. Hoping for a high lottery pick and this being Pop's final season so the team can start marching towards relevancy again within the next 3-5 years. That won't happen if the moves are centered around Pop's vision and how best to send him off on a farewell tour...

If guys like timvp and others in the Pop/RC can do no wrong camp start admitting to cracks in the foundation, then that is hopefully a sign that maybe real impactful change is on the horizon for this garbage ass roster.....

[SpursDynasty85]

Derrick White is already scared to shoot the ball like Kyle Anderson was. He's passing up a bunch of open looks. I guess it's the old man telling him he will get benched if he shoots the ball

He's the pg. It would be an even bigger catastrophe if he just started jacking up shots. He has to get chemistry with other first then shoot. He needs minutes only. Yesterday he played great. Good decisions.

[sananspursfan21]

Kingston Trio lyrics? timvp

[sananspursfan21]

I see what you did there.

https://streamd.hitparade.ch/cdimages/terry_jacks-seasons_in_the_sun_s.jpg


Ohhhhh, I was thinking Kingston Trio. Whoops.

[sananspursfan21]

Agree 100% that "years away" mantra is basically an "In Pop we Trust" "Corporate Knowledge" yadda Yada. Cult stuff.

On a team, this bad ROOKIES START or get HEAVY PT Especially Rookies of the Pedigree of Lonnie Walker.
Saying he is a couple off WEEKS away from starting or getting minutes because of REHAB instead of a COUPLE OF YEARS....... ?????

2018 DRAFT is turning into one of the strongest top to bottom in years. I guess some people didn't get the memo. People may have other things to do than watch Tons of NBA games. Just look at the Box score ad +- Numbers to make statements.

The rookies and young players waiting their turn was understandable in the championship contention war but I agree it’s time to get these guys’ teeth cut

[JeffDuncan]

Let's see what we've got here.

Patty Mills - not an NBA player.

Marco Belinelli - no longer an NBA-level player.

Davis Bertans - not an NBA player.

Dante Cunningham - no longer an NBA-level player.

Bryn Forbes - not an NBA player.

Quincy Pondexter - no longer an NBA-level player.

Jakob Poeltl - perhaps an NBA player, useful in certain lineups, against certain opponents, if he were well coached. Again, if he were well coached.

Derrick White - an end-of-the-bench NBA player on some teams.

Pau Gasol - in truth, a former NBA player. Unavailable.

Lonnie Walker IV - a raw NBA player with excellent prospects.

Dejounte Murray - an NBA player in development with excellent prospects. Unavailable.

Ben Moore - not established as an NBA player at age 23.

Chimezie Metu - a raw rookie, future unknown.

Drew Eubanks - a raw rookie, future unknown.

DeMar DeRozan - an NBA All-Star being badly misused on a dysfunctional team.

LaMarcus Aldridge - a former All-Star, in decline, being badly misused, and poorly coached, on a dysfunctional team.

Did I miss anything?

Edit - I sure as hell missed something. Rudy Gay! Definitely an NBA player, but with persistent foot problems.

[Maddog]

These pieces don't fit.
I put a lot of this on LMA. However, this really is a patchwork team. Mid season last year they where probably envisioning an elite defensive team going forward centered around Nephew and DJ.

I was more in favor of rebuilding this summer than re tooling when it became clear that the nephew was out of here. However early in the season, I thought, hey this might work out.
I think it's really time to re think about going full rebuild.

[BackHome]

At this point we have no choice were second to last in the West. Can one of the mods put in 2019 draft in the forums

[Dex]

This season is really starting to remind me of 96-97.

Mostly because we are in 2nd to last in the West...and have the easiest part of our schedule behind us.

[Russ]

Personally, I'm hoping the Spurs can get back on track, make the playoffs and Pop can coach until the day comes he no longer wants to coach.

:toast


As a result, the Spurs will have to make do with a version of Aldridge who oftentimes floats on offense and is inconsistent energy-wise on defense.

If Aldridge had a motor (or the seriousness to develop an inside game), he'd be top 50 all time.

[MoSpur02]

:toast



If Aldridge had a motor (or the seriousness to develop an inside game), he'd be top 50 all time.

This. He can be dominant when he really wants to, defers too much his jumper and fadeaway shot.

[therealtruth]

The Spurs should have known enough about LMA when Splitter shut him down in '14 playoffs.

[timvp]

:lol Lonnie a "Couple of years away".....man the brainwashing that Pop and the FO have been able to successfully do during this run has been really quite impressive. Even with how raw he is, he'd easily be the 3rd best wing on the team within 10 games of NBA game action....that's how horrible the roster is.


Agree 100% that "years away" mantra is basically an "In Pop we Trust" "Corporate Knowledge" yadda Yada. Cult stuff.

Not that Spurs f:lolns are known to actually watch other teams play basketball but what fantasy world is it that non-lottery picks as green as Walker instantly step into big roles? It rarely happens, regardless of team circumstances. On teams that have hopes of making the playoffs, it's even more rare. The truth is that Pop's history of playing non-lottery rookies on teams with hopes of making the playoffs is as good or better than just about every other comparable coach. I know that doesn't fit with the whining that has gone on over the years but it's the truth if you take a second to look around the league.

[DAF86]

I really hope "random thoughts" don't become the norm, tbh. :(

[JeffDuncan]

Oh, I wanted to mention a very unusual moment in the game when Pop walked down the bench, sat between LMA and DDR, and talked to them for a while. Anybody heard anything about that, or have thoughts on it?

[phxspurfan]

-After the Rockets romp, I went and watched the debut of Lonnie Walker IV in Austin. I was impressed. The kid is definitely an A+ athlete who plays with a swagger than may transfer to the NBA and allow him to quickly become a contributing member of the team. On paper, it's unlikely that Walker does anything for the big boys this year because he's about as raw as an NBA player can be today: he didn't go to a powerhouse high school, he went to a university not known for basketball and he wasn't even healthy all of last season.

On paper, Walker is a couple years away. But the Spurs could desperately need athleticism, fearlessness and explosiveness. Walker could help in those areas and I think he should be given a chance once he's completely confident on his knee.

The guy refers to himself in the third person. He’s exactly what we need :lol

On paper, Walker is a couple years away. But on paper, the Spurs are more than a couple years away. Find the kid (and some more g league kids) a spot on the team. Stupid mills and Forbes, Cunningham, Bertans etc are killing this team

[DAF86]

Oh, and, like I've been saying all along, our best lineup is White, DeRozan, Gay, Bertans, Aldridge.

Size and passable defense on every position; shooting and shot making on every position too. Yet, I don't think I have ever seen those 5 together on the floor at the same time for even a second this season.

[Russ]

Oh, I wanted to mention a very unusual moment in the game when Pop walked down the bench, sat between LMA and DDR, and talked to them for a while. Anybody heard anything about that, or have thoughts on it?

My thoughts -- Pop was way too calm in the face of all this.

He should have been panicking and pulling his hair out (he better keep coaching, he'll never make it on a message board).

[DAF86]

Has he even started that lineup or had that lineup yet?

Not that I remember.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Oh, I wanted to mention a very unusual moment in the game when Pop walked down the bench, sat between LMA and DDR, and talked to them for a while. Anybody heard anything about that, or have thoughts on it?


https://youtu.be/8xqLfz_LPm4

[slick'81]

Oh, I wanted to mention a very unusual moment in the game when Pop walked down the bench, sat between LMA and DDR, and talked to them for a while. Anybody heard anything about that, or have thoughts on it?

Clearly hes letting his best two players know there will be better days

[RC_Drunkford]

Oh, and, like I've been saying all along, our best lineup is White, DeRozan, Gay, Bertans, Aldridge.

Size and passable defense on every position; shooting and shot making on every position too. Yet, I don't think I have ever seen those 5 together on the floor at the same time for even a second this season.

Pop doesn't play line ups without at least 1 midget in it. Sometimes he plays 3 at the same time. When's the last time the Spurs didn't have a midget in the line up?

[objective]

Ugh, still have a better record than every lottery team in the damn East

Wizards might not get better because of all their drama

Nets might not get better due to injury

Knicks, Bulls, Hawks and Cavs are all tanking and have a big head start. Maybe NY and the Bulls get a little better if/when Porzingis and Markannen get back but they are their teams are tank-invested heavily.

MAYBE Miami gets a better record than SA as they get healthier. And they could make some moves to help it along.

But in the West it's easy to picture the Kings and Dallas falling off.

If the Spurs are going to tank, they need an injury to LMA or DeRozan pronto.

[Fusternino]

We could still get Sekou in the 6-12 range.

[Kurgan]

Pop doesn't play line ups without at least 1 midget in it. Sometimes he plays 3 at the same time. When's the last time the Spurs didn't have a midget in the line up?

Forbes has started every game this season. It's unrealistic to expect a starting lineup without him included unfortunately. In Pop's mind, Derozan/LMA/Forbes are locks leaving only two spots for experimentation.

[SAGirl]

Pop's not playing Walker.

First, those pull-up jumpers are a sure way to get benched if he ever does play. One missed pull up off a crossover when guys like DeRozan or Marco or LMA or Forbes or Gay are on the court and he'll get pulled for not being over himself just like White is.

Pop needs to condition Walker first into constantly looking over his shoulder, passively surrendering the ball to Patty Mills, and doubting his own game as worse players get free passes.

But aside from that, there's nowhere for him to get minutes.

Pop will never EVER take Mills down to spot minutes. He can squat on the court and defecate during live play, Pop will just love him more. Such culture.

DeRozan isn't losing minutes. Marco has been even worse than usual but he was the prize of the off-season. They knew he was one of the worst defenders in the league. He has a two year deal. Walker can play after Marco's deal is over. Forbes is now a made man. He's better than Mills, and if Mills won't lose minutes to Walker, neither is Forbes.

Well one has to think all these tank commanders are taking us to a high lotto pick... with Pop favoritism as the linchpin.

[Mugen]

Not that Spurs f:lolns are known to actually watch other teams play basketball but what fantasy world is it that non-lottery picks as green as Walker instantly step into big roles? It rarely happens, regardless of team circumstances. On teams that have hopes of making the playoffs, it's even more rare. The truth is that Pop's history of playing non-lottery rookies on teams with hopes of making the playoffs is as good or better than just about every other comparable coach. I know that doesn't fit with the whining that has gone on over the years but it's the truth if you take a second to look around the league.

:lol So many qualifiers to bail out Pop....

Off the top of my head, Collins, Leaf and OG....this year pretty sure Okogie on Minny is getting steady minutes....

But Lonnie is so raw that there's no way he could possibly be better than the likes of Bryn, Beli, Quincy Pondexter, and other powerhouse wings on the team crofl

Simply put, this is a lottery team and first rounders (no matter if they were lottery or not) should be able to play and get steady minutes on a bottom feeding team

[Mugen]

I bet it was probably Timmy and Manu that went to Pop during Kawhis rookie year and told him to trade RJ :lol

Miss the real leaders on the team tbh...

[Kurgan]

I bet it was probably Timmy and Manu that went to Pop during Kawhis rookie year and told him to trade RJ :lol

Miss the real leaders on the team tbh...

I miss the days when we were bitching about players like RJ starting(who was at least an NBA caliber player). Now we're complaining about scrubs like Cunningham who have no business being on an NBA roster. Spurs have truly fallen on hard times.

[timtonymanu]

No sane coach should be playing Cunningham and Pondexter over Lonnie. Regardless of how it was done in the past. Pop and co need to move on from that mentality already.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Get the kid up with the big dogs once he’s back in conditioning and find him some minutes. Mills, Forbes, Beli are NOT apart of the future there’s no point of giving those minutes to those guys if we’re not winning anything and most likely missing the playoffs. Let him make the mistakes and all that what do we have to lose? Everyone else is making mistakes and most of them are veterans. The pacers are finding a way to play TJ FUCKING LEAF 7mpg on a playoff team come on now. Throw the kid in the fire. Lonnie Walker is getting minutes on AT LEAST 15 out of the 30 teams in the NBA right now and the spurs are a bottom 9 team record wise.

[timvp]

:cry So many qualifiersSo many? Two. 1) Non lottery pick, 2) Team with playoff aspirations


to bail out Pop....To bail Pop out of what? Walker's been injured. He hasn't even had the chance to do what you're already complaining about.


Off the top of my head, CollinsWhich Collins? Well, guess it doesn't matter since one was a lottery pick and the other is on the Hawks.


LeafLeaf :lmao

He barely plays and when he does he sucks, tbh.


OGGood example of the rare situation of a non lottery pick getting rotational minutes on a team with playoff aspirations :tu


...this year pretty sure Okogie on Minny is getting steady minutes....Probably should check again. He's been out of the lineup for a while now. Don't let the Spurs bl:lolwout fool you, tbh.



Here's a simple challenge: Since Pop is apparently so bad about playing rookies, I'd like you to name a coach who has anywhere near the track record that Pop has when it comes to playing non-lottery rookies rotational minutes on a team with playoff aspirations. Surely, since this is something that's necessitates whining from Spurs fans for years on end, there are coaches out there that Pop should emulate. I'll only ask for one.

Thanks in advance :tu

[sasaint]

The Spurs should have known enough about LMA when Splitter shut him down in '14 playoffs.

The. Real. Truth.

[Mugen]

Here's a simple challenge: Since Pop is apparently so bad about playing rookies, I'd like you to name a coach who has anywhere near the track record that Pop has when it comes to playing non-lottery rookies rotational minutes on a team with playoff aspirations. Surely, since this is something that's necessitates whining from Spurs fans for years on end, there are coaches out there that Pop should emulate. I'll only ask for one.

Thanks in advance :tu

So you ask for non-lottery pick rookies that get minutes, I give you 3 within the last year and then it's teams with playoffs aspirations. :lol

Also ..."playoff aspirations" ....[looks at Spurs 2018-2019 roster that Pop and RC have assembled] ....."but it's not fair since Dejounte "The Glove" Murray" is out for the year"...:lmao

Not sure what you didn't get about my Spurs are a bottom feeder and their 1st rounder should play a ton comment. But a team doesn't get its doors blown off @ Mia (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=48241)mi, @ sac (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2890), against Orlando, @ PHX... get rocked by 30+ against teams with actual "playoff aspirations" and get to say us "Us too!"

The "2 years away on paper" line of thinking is such a tall glass of that Pop kool-aid, same shit that we were hearing in 2011 when McDyess and Bonner were getting their shit pushed in by Gasol and Zbo while Tiago was handing out waters on the bench.

Again, I'll state it out as simply as possible: The Spurs are a lottery, bottom feeding team this year. They should play their 1st rounder with actual above average NBA player potential as much as possible. Hes not Bryn F'n Forbes.

I'm hoping it's only going to take you 5 or 6 more "Random Thoughts" threads until this hits home tbh :lol

[Mugen]

My favorite part is that it's Spurfan' "whining" all the time but then, in hindsight, it always ends up being spot on 90% of the time and RC/Pop always admit to it after the fact :lol

[SpurPadre]

:lol So many qualifiers to bail out Pop....

Off the top of my head, Collins, Leaf and OG....this year pretty sure Okogie on Minny is getting steady minutes....

But Lonnie is so raw that there's no way he could possibly be better than the likes of Bryn, Beli, Quincy Pondexter, and other powerhouse wings on the team crofl

Simply put, this is a lottery team and first rounders (no matter if they were lottery or not) should be able to play and get steady minutes on a bottom feeding team

:lol Lonnie can shit on the floor and provide better production than Bryn. Some people are in fucking Bonner-type denial over that fucking scrub. I don't get it.

[weebo]

So you ask for non-lottery pick rookies that get minutes, I give you 3 within the last year and then it's teams with playoffs aspirations. :lol

Also ..."playoff aspirations" ....[looks at Spurs 2018-2019 roster that Pop and RC have assembled] ....."but it's not fair since Dejounte "The Glove" Murray" is out for the year"...:lmao

Not sure what you didn't get about my Spurs are a bottom feeder and their 1st rounder should play a ton comment. But a team doesn't get its doors blown off @ Mia (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=48241)mi, @ sac (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2890), against Orlando, @ PHX... get rocked by 30+ against teams with actual "playoff aspirations" and get to say us "Us too!"

The "2 years away on paper" line of thinking is such a tall glass of that Pop kool-aid, same shit that we were hearing in 2011 when McDyess and Bonner were getting their shit pushed in by Gasol and Zbo while Tiago was handing out waters on the bench.

Again, I'll state it out as simply as possible: The Spurs are a lottery, bottom feeding team this year. They should play their 1st rounder with actual above average NBA player potential as much as possible. Hes not Bryn F'n Forbes.

I'm hoping it's only going to take you 5 or 6 more "Random Thoughts" threads until this hits home tbh :lol


Play them and then what? Learn how to lose? Turn into the next Rudy Gay? Oh wait...

[Arcadian]

That'd be funny if Pop did get fired. Maybe RC will have an epiphany, wake up one day and think "Fuck this guy."

[SpurPadre]

That'd be funny if Pop did get fired. Maybe RC will have an epiphany, wake up one day and think "Fuck this guy."

The only way Pop gets fired is if Bob Hill wins the lottery and buys the team.

[tim_duncan_fan]

This needed to happen.

No one wants to be middling forever.

What you do is get really bad then draft well.


We just need to nail the second part of this equation.

[spurs10]

Poignant article. Yes it's nothing to take lightly lose two games by 70 points. That's absolutely a first as far as I know, so all this is not something anyone has much of a read on. I actually think we will right the ship and a few good solid wins will help morale, but the fact is we've lost several HOF's and aren't what we used to be. 21 years is a monster run. I'm certainly not enjoying the curb-stompings and hope we have a better game tomorrow because I'll be there!!

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I agree with the folks that are saying play the young guys. All our good wing defenders from last season are off the roster or injured. As soon as I seen how the off season played out as far as what players we got I knew our defense wasn’t going to be any good.

Hopefully Pop plays Walker and White to see if they can be true contributors for the future Spurs. I doubt any major player will be traded unless they ask to be moved.

[timvp]

I'm not going to even acknowledge your challengeNo worries. Didn't expect you to acknowledge it, much less offer a name :tu


The "2 years away on paper" line of thinking is such a tall glass of that Pop kool-aid, same shit that we were hearing in 2011 when McDyess and Bonner were getting their shit pushed in by Gasol and Zbo while Tiago was handing out waters on the bench. I don't even understand what you're whining about, tbh. Here's what I said:


On paper, it's unlikely that Walker does anything for the big boys this year because he's about as raw as an NBA player can be today: he didn't go to a powerhouse high school, he went to a university not known for basketball and he wasn't even healthy all of last season.

On paper, Walker is a couple years away. But the Spurs could desperately need athleticism, fearlessness and explosiveness. Walker could help in those areas and I think he should be given a chance once he's completely confident on his knee.I said Walker, on paper based upon the fact the he's hardly played against any type of serious competition, is two years away from helping on the NBA level. I went on to say that despite the fact that he's raw, Pop should play him ASAP.

You managed to take that as me saying Pop shouldn't play him for two years and then went on a tangent whine about Pop not playing young players enough. And then refused to acknowledge a challenge to name a single coach who plays young player to your liking. Impressive outrage gymnastics, tbh. Directing your whines at me even though you're agreeing with me :lol


Again, I'll state it out as simply as possible: The Spurs are a lottery, bottom feeding team this year. They should play their 1st rounder with actual above average NBA player potential as much as possible.


Walker could help in those areas and I think he should be given a chance once he's completely confident on his knee.Nice. So you agree. Could have saved a lot of whining by just stating that :tu



P.S.

For those who are interested in Walker's relative inexperience, here's Walker's college coach expanding on the matter and *gasp* talking about him being two years away:


the difference is Donovan Mitchell did not just go to high school. He went to prep school at (Brewster Academy), one of the premier prep schools in the country, and he played against Division I players every day. The competition in practice is probably better than what they get in every game. So, his preparation at (Brewster Academy) is far better than anything Lonnie would’ve ever experience before getting to the ACC. And Lonnie only played one year in the ACC whereas Donovan played two. So, in my estimation, at this point of Lonnie’s career, he’s two seasons behind where Donovan Mitchell was this year as an NBA rookie. So, I wouldn’t expect Lonnie just to go in and do what Donovan did. But I would expect him in two years to be where Donovan is.

Walker is as green as a prospect can be these days. Most one-and-doners go through the basketball factories. But despite that, to repeat myself, I still think he should play for the Spurs this season and be given a chance to take on as large of a role as he can handle.

[BackHome]

He needs to play in G League first his conditioning back and at least show he is grasping team concept. Once he dominates a few games then bring him up and give him few minutes every other game. I want him to grow but I don’t want to duck up our lottery chances.

[DPG21920]

What are your thoughts on the job RC has done in the last few years, timvp?

[spurs10]

Not speaking of the job RC has done 'in the last few years,' I was really impressed with how he really tried to remedy the situation with nephew. I was of the school 'make him fulfill his contract' school and was encouraged by RC's statements at the time. I can only assume that at some point he realized it was 'over' and they did their best. RC struck me as someone who would not have made the trade unless convinced he didn't have any better solutions. That and the colossal amounts of injuries to their top draft picks, the exiting of multiple HOFers, and a team of guys who have never played together before pretty much tells the story. This is not over yet.

[MoSpur02]

Once the Lonnie plays meaningful minutes, he should start. He can't be any worse than Cunningham. Once he gets a feel for the game, he should start along with Derozan, Forbes, Gay, and Aldridge.

[timvp]

What are your thoughts on the job RC has done in the last few years, timvp?

Hit and miss. More bad than good in the last few years, unfortunately.

The Gasol extension was WTF at the time and I've never been able to make sense of it. Truly an F- move. Pop really, really didn't want to lose Mills to the Nets but it was a bad re-signing at the time and has gotten worse and worse as free agency money for comparable players disappeared.

Most damning, the Spurs didn't maximize Nephew's value when trading him. A lot of that was out of their hands but, personally, I would have held onto him and forced him to play out his contract. Best case, he plays and you reconcile. Second best case, he plays and increases his trade value and you get something north of 80 cents on the dollar. There were reasons the Spurs didn't go that route but none of those reasons were good enough in my eyes to accept the deal they accepted.

Some smaller scale hits (Dedmon, Gay) and misses (King Joff, looks like Belinelli) lately but safe to say the Nephew trade plus the Gasol and Mills deal overshadow everything else in free agency and trades in recent years.

The good news is Buford still appears to be great at drafting. Murray, White and Walker all look like great picks. Metu looks like a good pick. Going back to KA is another good/great pick.

Probably the most exciting thing about the coming years is to see what Buford and co. can do with the forthcoming draft picks. If he's done great with late first rounders, what could he do with lottery picks? Exciting, tbh.


Edit to add:

I also give credit to Buford for identifying two NBA level undrafted players in the 2016 draft: Forbes and Arcidiacono. The man is truly a legend when it comes to the draft, tbh.

[Mugen]

No worries. Didn't expect you to acknowledge it, much less offer a name :tu

I don't even understand what you're whining about, tbh. Here's what I said:

I said Walker, on paper based upon the fact the he's hardly played against any type of serious competition, is two years away from helping on the NBA level. I went on to say that despite the fact that he's raw, Pop should play him ASAP.

You managed to take that as me saying Pop shouldn't play him for two years and then went on a tangent whine about Pop not playing young players enough. And then refused to acknowledge a challenge to name a single coach who plays young player to your liking. Impressive outrage gymnastics, tbh. Directing your whines at me even though you're agreeing with me :lol



Nice. So you agree. Could have saved a lot of whining by just stating that :tu


Walker is as green as a prospect can be these days. Most one-and-doners go through the basketball factories. But despite that, to repeat myself, I still think he should play for the Spurs this season and be given a chance to take on as large of a role as he can handle.

Actually, your original "challenge" was to name non-lottery picks getting big roles. I gave you 3-4 within the last year but then it became teams with playoff aspirations.

Glad we're on the same page about the Spurs being a bottom feeder and that Lonnie should be getting minutes on a lottery team. When Pop inevitably gives him the Tiago treatment, hoping I'm not the only who will call Pop out for it. If he treats him like rookie-year Kawhi, I'll be the first one to give the old man some kudos. :tu

[spurs10]

Hit and miss. More bad than good in the last few years, unfortunately.

The Gasol extension was WTF at the time and I've never been able to make sense of it. Truly an F- move. Pop really, really didn't want to lose Mills to the Nets but it was a bad re-signing at the time and has gotten worse and worse as free agency money for comparable players disappeared.

Most damning, the Spurs didn't maximize Nephew's value when trading him. A lot of that was out of their hands but, personally, I would have held onto him and forced him to play out his contract. Best case, he plays and you reconcile. Second best case, he plays and increases his trade value and you get something north of 80 cents on the dollar. There were reasons the Spurs didn't go that route but none of those reasons were good enough in my eyes to accept the deal they accepted.

Some smaller scale hits (Dedmon, Gay) and misses (King Joff, looks like Belinelli) lately but safe to say the Nephew trade plus the Gasol and Mills deal overshadow everything else in free agency and trades in recent years.

The good news is Buford still appears to be great at drafting. Murray, White and Walker all look like great picks. Metu looks like a good pick. Going back to KA is another good/great pick.

Probably the most exciting thing about the coming years is to see what Buford and co. can do with the forthcoming draft picks. If he's done great with late first rounders, what could he do with lottery picks? Exciting, tbh.


Edit to add:

I also give credit to Buford for identifying two NBA level undrafted players in the 2016 draft: Forbes and Arcidiacono. The man is truly a legend when it comes to the draft, tbh.
I thought RC was going to make Kawhi fufill his contract. Which seemed like the move, then they decided differently. I guess relations got unbearable.

[DPG21920]

Hit and miss. More bad than good in the last few years, unfortunately.

The Gasol extension was WTF at the time and I've never been able to make sense of it. Truly an F- move. Pop really, really didn't want to lose Mills to the Nets but it was a bad re-signing at the time and has gotten worse and worse as free agency money for comparable players disappeared.

Most damning, the Spurs didn't maximize Nephew's value when trading him. A lot of that was out of their hands but, personally, I would have held onto him and forced him to play out his contract. Best case, he plays and you reconcile. Second best case, he plays and increases his trade value and you get something north of 80 cents on the dollar. There were reasons the Spurs didn't go that route but none of those reasons were good enough in my eyes to accept the deal they accepted.

Some smaller scale hits (Dedmon, Gay) and misses (King Joff, looks like Belinelli) lately but safe to say the Nephew trade plus the Gasol and Mills deal overshadow everything else in free agency and trades in recent years.

The good news is Buford still appears to be great at drafting. Murray, White and Walker all look like great picks. Metu looks like a good pick. Going back to KA is another good/great pick.

Probably the most exciting thing about the coming years is to see what Buford and co. can do with the forthcoming draft picks. If he's done great with late first rounders, what could he do with lottery picks? Exciting, tbh.


Edit to add:

I also give credit to Buford for identifying two NBA level undrafted players in the 2016 draft: Forbes and Arcidiacono. The man is truly a legend when it comes to the draft, tbh.

Spot on. He’s still an amazing drafter which is critical, but I am very concerned about his ability to build a modern nba team especially since free agency will be a bigger factor in the next couple years it appears with LMA/DeRozan contract nearing completion.

[timvp]

Spot on. He’s still an amazing drafter which is critical, but I am very concerned about his ability to build a modern nba team especially since free agency will be a bigger factor in the next couple years it appears with LMA/DeRozan contract nearing completion.

For small market teams, the draft is much more important than free agency. The draft will be about 90% of the battle.

I can't even think of the last small market team who made themselves a contender primarily through free agency. Maybe the Jazz a decade-plus ago when they signed Boozer and Okur ... but, then again, the Deron Williams pick was more vital than either signing.

[DPG21920]

For small market teams, the draft is much more important than free agency. The draft will be about 90% of the battle.

I can't even think of the last small market team who made themselves a contender primarily through free agency. Maybe the Jazz a decade-plus ago when they signed Boozer and Okur ... but, then again, the Deron Williams pick was more vital than either signing.

For sure - the draft is more important but free agency is becoming more critical for this team. Not surpassing the draft but important.

[TD 21]

I really don't think Aldridge's struggles are about his inability to coexist with another star, I just think he's in decline. Similar to Duncan and Gasol, he should age well, but even they had a swoon before somewhat rebounding and they got to do so in a more forgiving era for their type



For small market teams, the draft is much more important than free agency. The draft will be about 90% of the battle.

I can't even think of the last small market team who made themselves a contender primarily through free agency. Maybe the Jazz a decade-plus ago when they signed Boozer and Okur ... but, then again, the Deron Williams pick was more vital than either signing.

They weren't contenders. You'd think a Spurs fan would be able to differentiate the real from the fake.

I like how, in the midst of your lavishing praise on Buford for his recent drafting, you conveniently forgot to mention . . .

1) Jean-Charles, one of the worst draft picks in recent NBA history
2) Milutinov, an archaic archetype, who if he ever comes over is probably a deep bench caliber player
3) Murray and to a lesser extent Walker were ranked considerably higher and fell. The former because most teams had either a current or future starting PG and didn't want to work with a project, who has a difficult skillset to build around and the latter because he was red flagged as a long term medical risk.

With the dearth of young talent on this roster and lack of high picks, they couldn't afford to not take them.

[objective]

The draft is like defense:

If you don't secure the defensive rebound or get possession, you didn't do it right.

With the draft, it's good that RC and company could identify so many players and draft them, but without signing them they don't deserve full credit.

Identifying Milutinov or Hanga or Scola or Blossomgame (potentially) etc etc is great and all but they need to sign those players and get the value of the draft rights.

[timvp]

They weren't contenders. You'd think a Spurs fan would be able to differentiate the real from the fake. You'd think a Spurs fan would remember those Jazz made the Western Conference Finals. They were a Duncan injury away from having a pretty good chance at a ring. If that doesn't fit your definition of a contender, I guess we'll have to disagree :tu


I like how, in the midst of your lavishing praise on Buford for his recent drafting, you conveniently forgot to mention . . .

1) Jean-Charles, one of the worst draft picks in recent NBA historyHyperbole. A majority of late first round draft picks never amount to anything. In fact, that stat holds true for draft picks 18th and lower the last I checked. Spurs fans are spoiled in that they expect late first rounders to be good ... but that's the exception and far from the rule.

LJC was a 100% athlete who tore his ACL a couple months after the draft. Even if you want to chalk that up as a bad draft pick, one bad first round pick in the 20-plus years of Buford drafting is pretty damn impressive. James Anderson didn't pan out but he too suffered a career-altering injury early ... and he still had multiple stints with other teams, which is better than most mid to late first round draft picks can claim.


2) Milutinov, an archaic archetype, who if he ever comes over is probably a deep bench caliber playerHe's 23 years old and playing well in Europe. Early to call him a bust, even for a pessimist, tbh.


]3) Murray and to a lesser extent Walker were ranked considerably higher and fell.Cool stories. Still good picks :tu

[TD 21]

You'd think a Spurs fan would remember those Jazz made the Western Conference Finals. They were a Duncan injury away from having a pretty good chance at a ring. If that doesn't fit your definition of a contender, I guess we'll have to disagree :tu

Hyperbole. A majority of late first round draft picks never amount to anything. In fact, that stat holds true for draft picks 18th and lower the last I checked. Spurs fans are spoiled in that they expect late first rounders to be good ... but that's the exception and far from the rule.

LJC was a 100% athlete who tore his ACL a couple months after the draft. Even if you want to chalk that up as a bad draft pick, one bad first round pick in the 20-plus years of Buford drafting is pretty damn impressive. James Anderson didn't pan out but he too suffered a career-altering injury early ... and he still had multiple stints with other teams, which is better than most mid to late first round draft picks can claim.

He's 23 years old and playing well in Europe. Early to call him a bust, even for a pessimist, tbh.

Cool stories. Still good picks :tu

I did, but thinking making the WCF automatically qualifies one as being a contender, is insane. They got lucky that the Warriors upset the Mavericks and that the Spurs took care of the Suns. '07 contenders were: Spurs, Mavericks, Suns, Pistons.

Right, but the majority of late 1sts at least play in the league, if sporadically, for at least 1-2 years. Off the top, I can't think of another example of one being cut out of camp, 3 years after being drafted.

Torn ACL's don't end or even alter careers enough (at least in young players) to blame that as the reason for his not being good enough to play in the league. He hasn't even been on the radar since.

Didn't call him a bust and as ever, you're mistaking pessimist with realist.

Good picks, but no brainer picks. Not the type that credit should be doled out for.

[timvp]

I did, but thinking making the WCF automatically qualifies one as being a contender, is insane. They got lucky that the Warriors upset the Mavericks and that the Spurs took care of the Suns. '07 contenders were: Spurs, Mavericks, Suns, Pistons.Making a conference finals and being an injury away from a championship makes a team a contender in my book. It doesn't in your book. Apparently, making the finals doesn't make a team a contender in your book, either. We shall disagree on that topic :tu


Right, but the majority of late 1sts at least play in the league, if sporadically, for at least 1-2 years.Obviously. That's because teams automatically sign their first round draft picks. LJC was a draft-and-stash so the Spurs didn't need those 1-2 years to realize he was not an NBA player.


Torn ACL's don't end or even alter careers enough (at least in young players) to blame that as the reason for his not being good enough to play in the league.That's getting more true as the years pass and medicine advances. Five years ago when LJC tore his ACL, players were still having microfracture surgery. Nowadays, microfracture surgery is practically as archaic as bloodletting.


Good picks, but no brainer picks. Not the type that credit should be doled out for.I give credit for good picks. If you don't, then that's another area we'll have to disagree on :tu

[TD 21]

Making a conference finals and being an injury away from a championship makes a team a contender in my book. It doesn't in your book. Apparently, making the finals doesn't make a team a contender in your book, either. We shall disagree on that topic :tu

Obviously. That's because teams automatically sign their first round draft picks. LJC was a draft-and-stash so the Spurs didn't need those 1-2 years to realize he was not an NBA player.

That's getting more true as the years pass and medicine advances. Five years ago when LJC tore his ACL, players were still having microfracture surgery. Nowadays, microfracture surgery is practically as archaic as bloodletting.

I give credit for good picks. If you don't, then that's another area we'll have to disagree on :tu

My definition would be: capable of winning it without caveat or qualification.

Fair enough, but my point was, they didn't even bother attempting to save face (which is actually partially commendable).

I'm just saying, context is important. So much of success and failure in professional sports is based on luck and when you receive a good amount, people are quick to lavish praise. When you don't, vice versa.

[gambit1990]

I did, but thinking making the WCF automatically qualifies one as being a contender, is insane. They got lucky that the Warriors upset the Mavericks and that the Spurs took care of the Suns. '07 contenders were: Spurs, Mavericks, Suns, Pistons.

[pad300]

Hit and miss. More bad than good in the last few years, unfortunately.

The Gasol extension was WTF at the time and I've never been able to make sense of it. Truly an F- move. Pop really, really didn't want to lose Mills to the Nets but it was a bad re-signing at the time and has gotten worse and worse as free agency money for comparable players disappeared.

Most damning, the Spurs didn't maximize Nephew's value when trading him. A lot of that was out of their hands but, personally, I would have held onto him and forced him to play out his contract. Best case, he plays and you reconcile. Second best case, he plays and increases his trade value and you get something north of 80 cents on the dollar. There were reasons the Spurs didn't go that route but none of those reasons were good enough in my eyes to accept the deal they accepted.

Some smaller scale hits (Dedmon, Gay) and misses (King Joff, looks like Belinelli) lately but safe to say the Nephew trade plus the Gasol and Mills deal overshadow everything else in free agency and trades in recent years.

The good news is Buford still appears to be great at drafting. Murray, White and Walker all look like great picks. Metu looks like a good pick. Going back to KA is another good/great pick.

Probably the most exciting thing about the coming years is to see what Buford and co. can do with the forthcoming draft picks. If he's done great with late first rounders, what could he do with lottery picks? Exciting, tbh.


Edit to add:

I also give credit to Buford for identifying two NBA level undrafted players in the 2016 draft: Forbes and Arcidiacono. The man is truly a legend when it comes to the draft, tbh.

You think the Gasol extension was WTF? He conveniently opted out, at which point the Spurs had the potential cap flexibility to make a run at CP3 ( I doubt they knew the fix was in with Houston...but perhaps they were looking at some other max worthy free-agent). What could they believably have promised him to make him forgo the last year of his contract, worth $15.4M (IIRC), when he wouldn't get close to that on the open market? A full MLE contract worth ~ $38 M? Hey the new contract he got was for ~$48M, with $10M no guaranteed = $38M. What a coincidence! The PATFO would never tell porkers about no intention of making a run at CP3. They would never make promises to get a player to opt out of a contract (Hi Dick Jefferson, what are you doing here?) for financial reasons... I don't blame them for trying, nor for keeping their promises afterwards. The only think I might have done differently would be offering Pau a "bigger" contract. He was on 15.5 and was resigned with non-bird rights; he could get a 20% raise = $18.6m starting. Add a 5% raise, and you could get the third year fully unguaranteed, while getting Pau his money...

Mills, I agree with you was a fuck-up. He is not good enough as an actual PG, or as an undersized SG, to be considered a starter level guy. You don't pay a guy like that more than the MLE, even if you love his "character and intangibles".

They were always going to get reamed on the quitter trade, even if he started playing (well) for us again. Still, they should either have been patient, like you said, or said the salary ballast is Mills in place of Green unless OG Anunoby comes to SA.

Those were the major flaws - that and being under-aggressive in FA the last 2 years. This has been a golden opportunity wasted (and it is gone). Due to the dearth in cap-space after the splurge in 2016 (following the new CBA), players have been underpaid. We should have been locking down talent on longer term full MLE commitments. Would Rudy have turned down an extra guaranteed year (or 2). We could have gone after Tyreke Evans and offered him the 4 year MLE this summer as well! Kyle Anderson should have been paid, because in a normal off-season, he would likely have gotten something starting at $10M, so locking him in at the MLE for 4 years is a good deal... Buy Low, Sell High is a pretty simple principle...

[Daddy Long Dik]

ayyy we gotchall good