Random Thoughts: Spurs @ Jazz - Dec. 4, 2018

[timvp]

Another game, another 30-plus point blowout. That makes three such blowouts in the last four games. The Spurs latest debacle was a 139-105 dismantling at the hands of the Jazz.

San Antonio went down early, trailed by 14 at the end of the first quarter … and that was about it. The Spurs never really made a serious run.

-After losing three games by a combined 104 points, the blame has to start at the top. It’s not like Pop’s coaching an expansion team that lacks NBA talent. The coach has two really good players and enough talent overall to not get embarrassed this badly.

While I don’t think the team has quit on him, I do not believe Pop is putting the team in the best position to be competitive. I was happy that he started Davis Bertans again tonight but he went away from featuring Derrick White in a major role off the bench. Instead, he allowed the return of Marco Belinelli to diminish White’s role.

Not leaning on White is damning in itself because White is far and away the team’s best perimeter defender. Without the second year player leading the charge on defense, the Spurs simply don’t have the manpower to slow any team down.

And while Dante Cunningham isn’t starting, Pop hasn’t yet excised him totally out the rotation like is necessary. Cunningham isn’t a good defender and is a poor offensive player so there’s really no reason to play him, especially in a situation where you’re struggling on the road. That’s when you put high upside lineups on the court – not lineups featuring a player like Cunningham who at the very best won’t hurt you.

Following how good the offense looked last game against the Blazers, I think Pop should have kept Belinelli out of the rotation completely tonight. Not only is Belinelli’s shooting in the toilet this season, his shot selection is so bad that it breaks the team’s rhythm. And that’s not even factoring in his terrible defense.

-While Pop’s not exactly helping matters, the main reason why the Spurs are struggling so bad is their defense. The adjectives don’t exist to express how absolutely horrible their defense is right now. It’s truly some of the worst defense I’ve witnessed played on the NBA level.

It starts with the starters. I’ve previously praised Bryn Forbes for trying hard on defense but that effort hasn’t been there in the last six to seven games or so. That lack of intensity has caused Forbes to go from bad to worse on the defensive end. DeMar DeRozan had moments earlier in the season but now, true to his pre-Spurs reputation, he’s full-blown atrocious on defense. It’s sad to report but Rudy Gay has been defeated by his nagging injuries and has lost all his mobility and is now a major liability on defense.

Bertans is never going to be a good defender based on how he’s built but his number of mental mistakes tonight in Utah was quite high. LaMarcus Aldridge can’t be bothered most of the time to shift his defensive effort out of first gear. Tonight, I don’t think it would have been possible for him to give less effort on that end without the use of sedation medication.

The only bench players who show any defensive upside are White and Jakob Poeltl. I don’t think either one of them was too impressive tonight on D but at least they have the tools.

-Speaking of Poeltl, he was the bright spot tonight. He exhibited a relatively wide array of offensive moves on his way to a career-high 20 point on 9-for-11 shooting from the field. From pick-and-roll finishes, to an off the dribble penetration starting from beyond the three-point line, to a midrange jumper, to buckets on the fast break … he showed a little something. It’ll be tough to find Poeltl more minutes with Aldridge around but the Austrian is getting better and better by the game. His PER of 22.9 is now actually the highest on the team.

-Another silver lining tonight was Chimezie Metu. Sure, it was extended garbage time but it appears as if things are starting to click for him. He had a few nice moves with the ball, illustrated very good mobility on both ends for a bigman and just looked way more comfortable than he did just a couple weeks ago. I’m not ready to say Metu deserves a spot in the rotation … but that could come sooner rather than later if the blowouts keep stacking up.

-Offensively, DeRozan and Aldridge were okay. They were both a bit too ball-dominant but they were productive in their limited minutes. The issue was San Antonio’s defense was so pathetic that the offensive end of the court really didn’t matter much tonight.

-To put some statistics on the disastrous defense, the Spurs now boast the league’s second worst defense, allowing 113.3 points per 100 possessions. Only the tanking Cavaliers (113.5) are worse. In their last ten games, the Spurs are allowing 120 points per 100 possessions – more than three points worse than any team in the NBA over that stretch.

-The Spurs have the tenth best offense on the season but, again, that doesn’t matter with how porous their defense is at the moment.

-What’s the next step in attempting to fix the defense? I think Pop has a couple options. The first option is to bench Forbes and put White into the starting lineup. The Spurs need at least one good defender in the starting lineup. This would seamlessly accomplish that.

The other option is taking Gay out of the starting lineup. The problem is that there’s really no one to replace him. Gay’s out there on one leg but he’s probably still a better defender than Belinelli, for example. Would a frontline of Poeltl, Aldridge and Bertans work? Probably not but it might be worth a shot. If not Poeltl replaying Gay, maybe actually give Quincy Pondexter a shot. Yes, that’s how desperate the Spurs are for a decent defender in the starting lineup.

-Next up is a back-to-back against the Lakers in Los Angeles. I guess the good news is that the Spurs shouldn’t be tired. I don’t think anyone in silver and black had broken a sweat in Salt Lake City before the game was all but decided. It’s going to be a really difficult to get a road win with how out of sorts the Spurs are right now. Honestly, I’d probably settle for a well-contested match at this point.

-Against the Lakers, we’ll get an idea about how married Pop is to starting Bertans . He’ll be tempted to start Cunningham in order to put him on LeBron James like he did in the two earlier games this season. I think it’d be the wrong move but we’ll see what Pop does.

[gospursgojas]

Oh Pop’s starting Cunningham. Bet on it. No way he lets a chance to start centerpiece v.2 slip away. He has the easiest excuse to do so now.

[r0drig0lac]

good effort op

[BillMc]

Cheers OP for the thoughts. Only reason to come here after a game in these dark times.

[MoSpur02]

Thanks timvp. Never thought players would quit on Pop, but then again these guys aren't Manu, Duncan, and Parker. LaMarcus is the first suspect on my list if indeed the guys in the locker room aren't responding to Pop anymore. He seems like he would be the most likely to quit on the team or coach. If these losses keep mounting up I wouldn't be surprised if he's moved.

Speaking of moves it's obvious to me that the Spurs need to be on the phones looking for ways to try to improve this team. If I'm the front office I'm looking to get rid of Belinelli first. He is bad. He's poor defensively and on offense he shoots way too many bad shots. It kills the team offensively. Why he's still getting playing time is beyond me. The other players I would look to move would be Cunningham and Forbes. They really don't bring too much to the team.

Walker returning might help, but how much playing time will he actually get? Not only that Walker doesn't solve all the team's problems.

[monty4329]

This was awful, and disheartening. The offensive talent is what it is, plus I heard (on Windhorst maybe) that they had one full practice a few days ago after almost 3 weeks. It is hard to build an offense and a difense when not practicing, but still there is zero difensive effort. Zero.

I don't know if the defensive schemes are too complex -there is a lot of situational help-drop-switch-rotate that obviously takes so much time to understand and have in sync. But the body language is awful.

[sananspursfan21]

The offense is pretty good and all but I’ve noticed a turnover trend. I don’t know where they are in terms of per game average but they have a way of turning the ball over at the most costly times. Every possession counts but I watched a number of times last night and in other games where they needed a crucial basket to keep momentum and DeRozan (as big of a fan of his I am) and usually Forbes or Gay will just practically throw the ball away. They did it against Portland when the Blazers almost took the game back.

The defense is disgusting but am I the only one who notices these turnovers? It tends to really damn any chance of a comeback without even factoring the defense in

[objective]

If Pau was healthy they should just go big with Pau--LMA-Bertans-DDR-White. That's good enough as far as a regular season lineup. It does crapify the bench with Mills-Forbes-Marco, but RC and Pop don't know what they're doing anymore with rosters, so it is what it is.

Next is to feature Walker, either off the bench or starting and going ultra small. But Mills and Marco got paid so Walker will stay in Austin somehow unable to play for a team that is getting slaughtered most nights lately

Re: roster fixes/trades/adjustments

But like I wrote a year ago and was proven right in my fears: RC and Pop can't be trusted to fix things, because they don't know that things are broken. They didn't learn from their Mills-pau disaster, couldn't diagnose what was obvious long before those deals. Those guys don't think they signed bad deals.

If they had it to do over again, they would do it the same. So of course the front office that was so catastrophically wrong on Mills would waste their MLE on Marco. Of course they would be fine not having a real small forward when they were fine with Mills defending Klay Thompson and Kevin Durant.

The only way they make moves that matter positively going forward is for them to first realize how incredibly dumb they've been in order to not make the same mistakes.

And I don't expect that to happen. That kind of self-reflection and getting over themselves is just not something old guys who have been successful are typically capable of. Hell, even without success. Ernie Grunfeld isn't capable of it.

[Spursfanfromafar]

The T word was missing in the post. Tanking. Too early for it, but I guess the Spurs should consider this. It's a good season to tank without looking like tanking..I mean the Spurs can finish 14th with a 35 win season too and it could help ..the odds of landing the first pick are no longer much higher for the worst performer. There is a decent chance to land a good top 5 pick even if you don't finish in the Top 5.

[vavvi]

Usually I'm not the one to panic but we are truly bad and joyless. What concerns me is the trend of low energy starts. We seem to always drop -10 immediately after the game starts, and everybody on the starting line-up looks accepting and depressed. No energy whatsoever until the bench is in the game. And this team doesn't have the defense for huge comebacks. So being down early just kills us night after night. And I don't really see how to turn things around. We need some Draymond (as much as I hate him) types in the locker room. We are soft.

As for LA game I understand that I'm in minority here but I actually want to start Cun on Lebron maybe with Gay coming of the bench.

[Mugen]

https://media.giphy.com/media/SFyzk3Jpu7HJC/giphy.gif

[vavvi]

And yeah. I think it's time to bench Forbes

[RD2191]

Salvage the season, trade LMA, he's worthless and clearly doesn't want to be here.

[SpursDynasty85]

Playing all our young guys is not tanking when they all seem to be our best players now. I believe PATFO has been playing the vets with hefty contracts out of sheer desperation. Meaning if they are benched their trade values look terrible but when they play their trade values still look terrible. He is hoping to raise them I think. Who knows for sure but Pop and RC have a nasty season on their hands here.

[vander]

So, what are the chances LMA gets back into last years form?
If he keeps playing like this, Spurs should trade him for a bag of chips. He's not doing any good out there, it's unbearable to watch.

[MultiTroll]

but RC and Pop don't know what they're doing anymore with rosters, so it is what it is.

Next is to feature Walker, either off the bench or starting and going ultra small. But Mills and Marco got paid so Walker will stay in Austin somehow unable to play for a team that is getting slaughtered most nights lately

Re: roster fixes/trades/adjustments

But like I wrote a year ago and was proven right in my fears: RC and Pop can't be trusted to fix things, because they don't know that things are broken. They didn't learn from their Mills-pau disaster, couldn't diagnose what was obvious long before those deals. Those guys don't think they signed bad deals.

If they had it to do over again, they would do it the same. So of course the front office that was so catastrophically wrong on Mills would waste their MLE on Marco. Of course they would be fine not having a real small forward when they were fine with Mills defending Klay Thompson and Kevin Durant.

The only way they make moves that matter positively going forward is for them to first realize how incredibly dumb they've been in order to not make the same mistakes.

And I don't expect that to happen. That kind of self-reflection and getting over themselves is just not something old guys who have been successful are typically capable of. Hell, even without success. Ernie Grunfeld isn't capable of it.

[monty4329]

There is 0% chance Forbes gets benched. Pop is in love with him.

I would go White - DDR - Bertans - Metu/Aldridge - Aldridge/Poetl lineup and switch everything

And...lose by 30

[monty4329]

The only way we don’t lose by 30 is staggering DDR - Gay - Aldridge. None of them pass except for DDR(sometimes) and they are all black holes

If you give up 130 points a game, how many points you lose by is irrelevant. And it seems to me that the will (or ability) to defend adequately is gravely missing.

[Truth4sale$]

Spurs are just not good but keep doing the same thing. There is NO defense, not perimeter or interior, and add that to the NBA rule changes, these high scoring blowouts will be the norm.
To save the season, next year, not this year. The Spurs will need to continuously try out Gleague young players and see if they can play and defend to a high level. You cant trade or let leave your defensive players and not replace them.

[MarCowMar]

Even though we have a decent amount of talent the fact is that aside from Walker and Murray, our players are predominately mopey betas and they look miserable out there. We have naggy, excuse-ridden, emo players who can only look at what's wrong with a situation.

If Murray and Walker were healthy they have the charisma to become the young leaders of the team. Players who are _fun_ to be around and play with.

Aldridge can have a role on a championship team, don't get me wrong, but he was picked last at the All Star game for a reason.

No amount of fiddling with the lineup can fix the team as assembled unless Murray and Walker can step up and lead and play and become the centerpieces.

None of this is helped by the fact that Trump completely broke Pop without even trying. Listening to Pop these days makes me suicidal. What an eeyore!

[r0drig0lac]

Even though we have a decent amount of talent the fact is that aside from Walker and Murray, our players are predominately mopey betas and they look miserable out there. We have naggy, excuse-ridden, emo players who can only look at what's wrong with a situation.

If Murray and Walker were healthy they have the charisma to become the young leaders of the team. Players who are _fun_ to be around and play with.

Aldridge can have a role on a championship team, don't get me wrong, but he was picked last at the All Star game for a reason.

No amount of fiddling with the lineup can fix the team as assembled unless Murray and Walker can step up and lead and play and become the centerpieces.

None of this is helped by the fact that Trump completely broke Pop without even trying. Listening to Pop these days makes me suicidal. What an eeyore!

THANKS

[objective]

Playing all our young guys is not tanking when they all seem to be our best players now.

That might be the liste frustrating aspect of the season.

Traditionally, when teams tank, they do so by benching/trading the vets while force feeding minutes to young developing players.

But the Spurs are flipped. For them to tank, they have to play the vets and scrubs the most, which is just awful, awful to watch.

But if the Spurs force feed minutes the inexperienced players then that actually gives them the best chance to win paradoxically. Which might be easier to watch and more interesting, but hurts the tank.

[Keepin' it real]

Thanks for the grades!

[weeks]

pop: 'they made shots' in the post game interview :lol

[Dex]

What a sad state of affairs. Spurs defensive identity is completely shattered...and I don't think even a healthy Murray would be enough to save it. I guess that's what happens when you lose your four best defenders in one offseason.

A quick glance at the West standings makes me feel like it's time to start considering tanks-ville, then I quickly remember that the East is a garbage hump. Spurs are 14th in the West, but only 21st overall. Somehow, there are 8 teams in the East that are playing a worse brand of basketball (record-wise) than San Antonio.

Even if they don't intentionally tank and just keep playing at this poor pace, they will likely only end up with an 8th-12th pick to show for it.

[Harry Callahan]

Pop: "They made (uncontested) shots"

I added the uncontested. When you don't or can't play spirited defense, you get blown out. This is truly unwatchable basketball.

This roster was never the one management truly wanted and we all know why. Still, a little effort would make fans be a little more forgiving. The Spurs right now are a product that is not worth the money being asked for by way of tickets.

Lonnie Walker will be excited to play. I think White can be a good player long term.

The DeRozans and Aldridges are really just band-aids on gunshot wounds right now. I would not mind seeing one of them go for a decent draft pick and/or a younger player with potential.

If December is a full blown disaster record wise, the front office will have to make some decisions they are not used to making. I don't see the Spurs going anywhere this season. A full rebuild is in order.

[Dex]

Pop: "They made (uncontested) shots"

I added the uncontested. When you don't or can't play spirited defense, you get blown out. This is truly unwatchable basketball.

This roster was never the one management truly wanted and we all know why. Still, a little effort would make fans be a little more forgiving. The Spurs right now are a product that is not worth the money being asked for by way of tickets.

Lonnie Walker will be excited to play. I think White can be a good player long term.

The DeRozans and Aldridges are really just band-aids on gunshot wounds right now. I would not mind seeing one of them go for a decent draft pick and/or a younger player with potential.

If December is a full blown disaster record wise, the front office will have to make some decisions they are not used to making. I don't see the Spurs going anywhere this season. A full rebuild is in order.

I think one of them has to go. Their games just don't co-exist at all.

They are both volume isolation players who live in the mid-range. They don't seem to play off of each other at all. They just want to be thrown the ball and have everybody else get out of the way.

You can live with one of those guys on your team, but not two. The only reason it worked with Kawhi was that he could shoot the three, and even his mid-range game was crazy efficient.

Not to mention that so far this season, it seems like a coin flip whether they are actually going to show up. If both guys are on (like they were against Portland), the Spurs actually look like a good basketball team. If one or the other is off, the Spurs struggle...and that's a recipe for disaster when you have two guys who have been wildly inconsistent so far.

[Harry Callahan]

The Nephew trade was nothing more than extortion along with the theft of $18MM for the previous season. The Spurs were trying to get something in return in a bad situation when the star player destroys his trade value on purpose - purely vindictive, scum-bag behavior.

This year will be about trying to turn the page, and so far it has not been pretty. SA will probably need two years to turn the corner at least given the state of the current roster. The three previous #1 picks (all guards) need to be in the rotation now and next year. The stash forward in Europe needs to get here since he is a front court player. Draft picks for 2019 must work out. Signing a decent Free agent (in 2019 or 2020) would help.

Once again - at least two years to get going in the right direction.

[SpursDynasty85]

That might be the liste frustrating aspect of the season.

Traditionally, when teams tank, they do so by benching/trading the vets while force feeding minutes to young developing players.

But the Spurs are flipped. For them to tank, they have to play the vets and scrubs the most, which is just awful, awful to watch.

But if the Spurs force feed minutes the inexperienced players then that actually gives them the best chance to win paradoxically. Which might be easier to watch and more interesting, but hurts the tank.

Not gonna lie, when I saw Belli back in there and White's minutes scattered, I was convinced Pop was purposely trying to lose this game. He could've been saving White more for the Lakers tonight but you are spot on about this team needing the younger guys to play to make this team more enjoyable to watch. I might stop watching until then.

[venitian navigator]

looking at our next 20 games (last on january 13)...the schedule looks terrible. I don't see us as favourite in at least 14 of the 20 games...then our record could be 17/27 and any chance to reach the post season already gone...maybe the wise move would be to trade somebody before that moment came...or, at least, fully investigate on the possibility of a such trades...

[Harry Callahan]

When pop kicks himself upstairs and retires from the bench in 2020, I hope he has focused on repairing the roster and not the state of American Politics. I know he is wrong about US Legislative Policy pretty much across the board. He needs to recapture the ability to put together a competitive basketball team. That is the lane he needs to stay in for now.

He and RC deserve a long leash and an opportunity to repair the roster and select a quality Head Coach in 2020 due to the long long run of success (which is now officially over). The Board of Directors for the team will give them every opportunity to fix this. I hope they don't mess it up.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Murray, Walker and a healthy Gay would have made this team a lot better this year, and, oddly, there was a bit more cohesiveness with Pau. Pau at least wants to win, even if his talent has waned...and he's a champion and still carries that swagger which is a little contagious. But, yeah, Pop's coaching is horrendous right now. He's got to get away from Cunningham and Belinelli. The Spurs would be better off letting D leaguers replace both of those guys, and as of now, give Poetl, White and even Metu extra run. To me, Metu is not nearly NBA ready, but this team isn't NBA ready, so there's not much to lose at this point. May as well throw him in the fire.

Thanks Timvp. I only watched as much of the game as my stomach could bear. Awful. :pctoss

[8FOR!3]

Hate to say it but I haven't been enjoying games at all this year. It's just not a fun team to watch. The world isn't going to end and I'm confident tank or not that we'll find ways to get better, but players like Forbes and Cunningham just drain my energy trying to watch these games it's horrible. And other players sucking doesn't exactly help.

[baseline bum]

Salvage the season, trade LMA, he's worthless and clearly doesn't want to be here.

Should have done it at the draft when he had some value.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Should have done it at the draft when he had some value.

I didn't expect him to stink so bad. I imagine the FO figured he could continue to carry the torch. He and Kawhi have successfully sunk the franchise. Kawhi by quitting and LMA by....umm...quitting.

[baseline bum]

Murray, Walker and a healthy Gay would have made this team a lot better this year, and, oddly, there was a bit more cohesiveness with Pau. Pau at least wants to win, even if his talent has waned...and he's a champion and still carries that swagger which is a little contagious. But, yeah, Pop's coaching is horrendous right now. He's got to get away from Cunningham and Belinelli. The Spurs would be better off letting D leaguers replace both of those guys, and as of now, give Poetl, White and even Metu extra run. To me, Metu is not nearly NBA ready, but this team isn't NBA ready, so there's not much to lose at this point. May as well throw him in the fire.

Thanks Timvp. I only watched as much of the game as my stomach could bear. Awful. :pctoss

Honestly, fuck Gasol. If he wanted to win he would have come here in the summer of 2014 to be a top sixth man, but he kept a starting spot and more money in Chicago. He didn't come to the Spurs until Duncan retired so he could keep his starting spot as well as getting paid. But damn the Murray injury just killed the season, especially after seeing him hitting jumpshots in the pre-season.

[objective]

Murray, Walker and a healthy Gay would have made this team a lot better this year, and, oddly, there was a bit more cohesiveness with Pau. Pau at least wants to win, even if his talent has waned...and he's a champion and still carries that swagger which is a little contagious. But, yeah, Pop's coaching is horrendous right now. He's got to get away from Cunningham and Belinelli. The Spurs would be better off letting D leaguers replace both of those guys, and as of now, give Poetl, White and even Metu extra run. To me, Metu is not nearly NBA ready, but this team isn't NBA ready, so there's not much to lose at this point. May as well throw him in the fire.

Thanks Timvp. I only watched as much of the game as my stomach could bear. Awful. :pctoss

Marco and Mills are technically champions also.

I'm sure that factors into pop's love affair with them

[elbamba]

Fire sale time. Get what you can for Derozen and Aldridge and hope that you can add Patty, Marco, and Pau's contracts in the mix.

Spurs will not rebuild through free agency. They need draft picks.

[SpursDynasty85]

When pop kicks himself upstairs and retires from the bench in 2020, I hope he has focused on repairing the roster and not the state of American Politics. I know he is wrong about US Legislative Policy pretty much across the board. He needs to recapture the ability to put together a competitive basketball team. That is the lane he needs to stay in for now.

He and RC deserve a long leash and an opportunity to repair the roster and select a quality Head Coach in 2020 due to the long long run of success (which is now officially over). The Board of Directors for the team will give them every opportunity to fix this. I hope they don't mess it up.

Why are you even bringing his political opinion into this? All he has shown is he spent a few minutes talking about the presidency and you think the team sucking and that are correlated? Seems illogical and quite emotional, if you ask me.

[hater]

Disagree with OP

White is a scrub too

[cd021]

Why are you even bringing his political opinion into this? All he has shown is he spent a few minutes talking about the presidency and you think the team sucking and that are correlated? Seems illogical and quite emotional, if you ask me.

Plus one tbh

[cd021]

The way the Spurs have been getting worked recently, Poeltl and Metu might be playing 20+ and 12 minutes fairly regularly, damn.

[cd021]

Seriously though, Poeltl is quickly making Gasol much more expendable they absolutely need to consider moving Pau for wing help. Carroll and Ariza are obvious targets though they might be waived in February but the Spurs don't have that luxury of waiting.

Carroll for Gasol and this and next year's second rounder's my be enough to get Brooklyn to take on money past this season.

Forbes, Mills
DeRozen, White, Walker
Carroll, Belinelli, Pondexter
Bertans, Gay, Cunningham
Aldridge, Poeltl, Metu

That's a better lineup, imo. Carrol can be re-signed using bird, while Gay with early bird and the Spurs would still have both 1sts and the full MLE.

[therealtruth]

Oh Pop’s starting Cunningham. Bet on it. No way he lets a chance to start centerpiece v.2 slip away. He has the easiest excuse to do so now.

So Cunningham is the new Keith Bogans?

[Harry Callahan]

Why are you even bringing his political opinion into this? All he has shown is he spent a few minutes talking about the presidency and you think the team sucking and that are correlated? Seems illogical and quite emotional, if you ask me.

"A few minutes ?" Are you kidding me? Please.....

My comments are neither emotional nor illogical. More fact based opinion - deal with it.

Ever since Peter Holt (Pop's Boss) had to walk away from day to day control of this team and his former spouse has been the key representative of the ownership group, Pop has been making MANY comments about the state the country/Presidency and what should be done. The Sport media, most of which agree with Pop, throw out comments and questions about things not related to basketball all the time around the country. Ever since Pop starting popping off about Trump (with regularity), the sports media has not been whining nearly as much about how poorly he treats them (especially during the quarter break interview on national TV). Coincidence? I think not.

In addition, Pop makes sure he gets photographed at an early November practice sporting a Robert Patrick O'Rouke (AKA "Beto/Beta") ball cap.

Pissing off a significant portion of your customers (who pay for the high dollar season tickets) along with having issues now putting out a quality product over the last year and a half is an issue. Pop is bulletproof in San Antonio (rightfully so based on his performance for 20+ years). He still needs to focus on the basketball team. That's my point. All the other stuff is not necessary. There's a lot of work to do for him and RC this year and next. The page must be turned and the roster stocked with some young, talented players.

[r0drig0lac]

Honestly, fuck Gasol. If he wanted to win he would have come here in the summer of 2014 to be a top sixth man, but he kept a starting spot and more money in Chicago. He didn't come to the Spurs until Duncan retired so he could keep his starting spot as well as getting paid. But damn the Murray injury just killed the season, especially after seeing him hitting jumpshots in the pre-season.

this, and that's why he's the player I hate most in this roster easily (also has the fact that he has no more physical conditions to play pro level)

[Spurs Homer]

I don't know what everyone expected after Kawhitter betrayed the franchise.

The roster was put together with Kawhi as the centerpiece and he bailed.

Putting band-aids and making desperate trades for other low caliber players will really just be an exercise in moving the furniture around.
Time to show some patience and seeing if Pop is ready to rebuild or if he has had enough. I think he should move on but it does not mean that a savior will arrive and turn things around magically.

Time to understand what it means to not be a championship caliber team for awhile.

It sucks but it will make any future championships valued and appreciated again.

NO SHORTCUTS.

Time to see if there are really Spurs fans or just a bunch of finger-pointers and accusers and faux fans who will run to the GS Warriors fan base pretty soon. Some here are already Raptors fans posing as Spurs fans.

[SAGirl]

A
Seriously though, Poeltl is quickly making Gasol much more expendable they absolutely need to consider moving Pau for wing help. Carroll and Ariza are obvious targets though they might be waived in February but the Spurs don't have that luxury of waiting.

Carroll for Gasol and this and next year's second rounder's my be enough to get Brooklyn to take on money past this season.

Forbes, Mills
DeRozen, White, Walker
Carroll, Belinelli, Pondexter
Bertans, Gay, Cunningham
Aldridge, Poeltl, Metu

That's a better lineup, imo. Carrol can be re-signed using bird, while Gay with early bird and the Spurs would still have both 1sts and the full MLE.
They will still suck. Forbes isn’t a starting quality guard. Fire sale IMO and rebuild

[Harry Callahan]

I've been a Spurs fan the vast majority of my life. I'm a Cowboys fan too and that has been a total exercise in frustration. I'm pretty patient. Still waiting for a meaningful Cowboy playoff run for 22 years.

The Spurs have done it better than anyone else for the past 22 years. It will take a while to get this going in the right direction. At least 2 years.

[TheGreatYacht]

I don't know what everyone expected after Kawhitter betrayed the franchise.

The roster was put together with Kawhi as the centerpiece and he bailed.

Putting band-aids and making desperate trades for other low caliber players will really just be an exercise in moving the furniture around.
Time to show some patience and seeing if Pop is ready to rebuild or if he has had enough. I think he should move on but it does not mean that a savior will arrive and turn things around magically.

Time to understand what it means to not be a championship caliber team for awhile.

It sucks but it will make any future championships valued and appreciated again.

NO SHORTCUTS.

Time to see if there are really Spurs fans or just a bunch of finger-pointers and accusers and faux fans who will run to the GS Warriors fan base pretty soon. Some here are already Raptors fans posing as Spurs fans.
Jesus you're a faggot. Take your vanilla "built not bought" ass to reddit

[DPG21920]

You don’t go down double digits in 58% of your games along with 3 30 point losses without some form of the team tuning out the coach.

This type of quitting on a coach would never look the same as other poisonous situations because of the players and coach, but something beyond talent and poor coaching is happening

[Spurs Homer]

Jesus you're a faggot. Take your vanilla "built not bought" ass to reddit


lol

go support toronto fer chrissakes

stop whining about what the spurs do

you hate them anyway
stop being a whiny bitch

[DPG21920]

Also I don’t blame pop rc for everything but signing Cunningham & Pondexter was dumb. Rudy was fine but unfortunately his body is giving out. Mills & Pau are what they are and that was pre Kawhi sucking.

[TheGreatYacht]

lol

go support toronto fer chrissakes

stop whining about what the spurs do

you hate them anyway
stop being a whiny bitch
:lmao

"Everything ith awethum guythhhh! Keep calm and believe in Pop and R.Thee"

[spurraider21]

signing forbes/beli/gay in the same offseason, one year removed from signing patty shows how much they've prioritized defense.

in the same offseason we lost our 3 best wing defenders

[Spurs Homer]

:lmao

"Everything ith awethum guythhhh! Keep calm and believe in Pop and R.Thee"


raptor fan triggered lol

[Siski]

TGY is such a useless poster

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Each day that goes by, Kawhi Leonard is looking more and more like the smartest man in the world to walk away from the dumpster fire that is the San Antonio Spurs.

Let the tanking begin my friends.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Also I don’t blame pop rc for everything but signing Cunningham & Pondexter was dumb. Rudy was fine but unfortunately his body is giving out. Mills & Pau are what they are and that was pre Kawhi sucking.

Signing Belli sucked And Mills/Gasol still get paid too much, imo.

[RD2191]

I don't know what everyone expected after Kawhitter betrayed the franchise.

The roster was put together with Kawhi as the centerpiece and he bailed.

Putting band-aids and making desperate trades for other low caliber players will really just be an exercise in moving the furniture around.
Time to show some patience and seeing if Pop is ready to rebuild or if he has had enough. I think he should move on but it does not mean that a savior will arrive and turn things around magically.

Time to understand what it means to not be a championship caliber team for awhile.

It sucks but it will make any future championships valued and appreciated again.

NO SHORTCUTS.

Time to see if there are really Spurs fans or just a bunch of finger-pointers and accusers and faux fans who will run to the GS Warriors fan base pretty soon. Some here are already Raptors fans posing as Spurs fans.

The only thing kawhi leaving did was expose patfo for the frauds that they are.

[SpursDynasty85]

Signing Belli sucked And Mills/Gasol still get paid too much, imo.

All 3 should be gone next offseason. Belli and Gasol at the minimum of minimums (PLEASE)!!!

[TheGreatYacht]

The only thing kawhi leaving did was expose patfo for the frauds that they are.

[phxspurfan]

I very casually watched the game last night and also noticed the same stuff. Purrtl is looking good now, he should get more minutes. Metu will probably get more minutes because many of the games will be blowouts. The defense is truly killing the Spurs, as it seems every time down the court the Jazz were scoring. No offense can make up for that lack of defense. ALso the announcers made a good point (gasp) when they said the Spurs lack a playmaker and make every possession into a slow, plodding, difficult half court possession. It's very 90s basketball. Also they pointed out that the Spurs have this old style of mid-range and post up game, and the Jazz (like the modern NBA) have a 3 point shooting game.

If we don't get with the program, we're going to be getting blown out even when our offense is efficient, because 2 < 3.

[slick'81]

Thank god for poodle power

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The only thing kawhi leaving did was expose patfo for the frauds that they are.


Robinson carried a far worse group of scrubs to the playoffs every season than Kawhi had around him. PATFO surrounded Tim with the tools to win a championship, working within the confines of a small market franchise on a tight budget. I think they were trying to do the same thing with Kawhi. Robinson would have loved to have had someone with LMA's skillset lining up next to him. Put a prime Robinson on the last two Spurs teams in place of Kawhi and they would have titled. You can blame Pop and call him a fraud, but they did a pretty damn good job for a long, long time.

[Spurs Homer]

The only thing kawhi leaving did was expose patfo for the frauds that they are.

You are better than this bruh

[RD2191]

You are better than this bruh

I'm really not though

[hater]

Play white 40 minutes we still get creamed by 45

[cd021]

A
They will still suck. Forbes isn’t a starting quality guard. Fire sale IMO and rebuild

This just isn't an option, tbh. They probably won't start selling off pieces unless they are at or below .500 near the February deadline.

Even then, they might convince themselves to run it back next year with Murray, a high pick and "internal improvement"

[slick'81]

Robinson carried a far worse group of scrubs to the playoffs every season than Kawhi had around him. PATFO surrounded Tim with the tools to win a championship, working within the confines of a small market franchise on a tight budget. I think they were trying to do the same thing with Kawhi. Robinson would have loved to have had someone with LMA's skillset lining up next to him. Put a prime Robinson on the last two Spurs teams in place of Kawhi and they would have titled. You can blame Pop and call him a fraud, but they did a pretty damn good job for a long, long time.

Robinson and duncan carried this franchise for over 25 years .not easy to nab two hof top 50 players who are also bigs that got to play together

[phxspurfan]

This just isn't an option, tbh. They probably won't start selling off pieces unless they are at or below .500 near the February deadline.

Even then, they might convince themselves to run it back next year with Murray, a high pick and "internal improvement"

Problem is, this isn't a one player problem. It's a roster issue that has taken years to develop (or mishandle...). Getting a player like Beal, Walker, Murray, Wilt Chamberlain, whatever, won't solve the fact that we have guys like Cunningham, injured 40 year old Pau, soft old school LMA, midget Forbes/Mills effectively as SG, relying on DeRozan to be a perimeter defender, etc.. The new NBA is about guys like Jaren Jackson Jr, Doncic, and Tobias Harris, (long and agile, multi-skilled, almost positionless) and mobile bigs who can switch and rebound/finish, not put up fadeaway 20 foot jumpers all day.

[superbigtime]

I knew Beli was going to be bad, but he has exceeded my expectations. Worst player on the team, and it ain't close.

[timvp]

Oh Pop’s starting Cunningham. Bet on it. No way he lets a chance to start centerpiece v.2 slip away. He has the easiest excuse to do so now.Yeah, I'm mentally prepared to see Cunningham in the starting lineup.


So of course the front office that was so catastrophically wrong on Mills would waste their MLE on Marco. Of course they would be fine not having a real small forward when they were fine with Mills defending Klay Thompson and Kevin Durant.

The only way they make moves that matter positively going forward is for them to first realize how incredibly dumb they've been in order to not make the same mistakes.

And I don't expect that to happen. That kind of self-reflection and getting over themselves is just not something old guys who have been successful are typically capable of. Hell, even without success. Ernie Grunfeld isn't capable of it.I respect the frustration but I think that's a little overly dramatic, tbh.

And even if the FO is terrible at signing free agents, the most important thing going forward is the draft. For a small market rebuilding team, the draft is much, much, much more important than free agent decisions ... so the Spurs are set in that regard going forward, unless someone wants to make the argument that the current FO can't draft.


You don’t go down double digits in 58% of your games along with 3 30 point losses without some form of the team tuning out the coach.

This type of quitting on a coach would never look the same as other poisonous situations because of the players and coach, but something beyond talent and poor coaching is happeningI mean, it's possible. Occam's razor, though, is that what we're witnessing is a result of having a roster almost completely filled with bad defensive players. You start five bad defenders and this is what happens.

Despite all the long two-pointers, iso offense, etc. ... the Spurs are still a top ten offensive team. The problem is defensively. And with players like Forbes, DeRozan and Gay all getting worse on that end as the season progresses, it looks like right now they hit a point where their defense is just too poor to be hidden by smoke, mirrors or even elite offensive play.


Robinson carried a far worse group of scrubs to the playoffs every season than Kawhi had around him. PATFO surrounded Tim with the tools to win a championship, working within the confines of a small market franchise on a tight budget. I think they were trying to do the same thing with Kawhi. Robinson would have loved to have had someone with LMA's skillset lining up next to him. Put a prime Robinson on the last two Spurs teams in place of Kawhi and they would have titled. You can blame Pop and call him a fraud, but they did a pretty damn good job for a long, long time.Good points, tbh.

[Crazymaddopeyo]

I'm usually not one for tanking but damn I find myself just wanting them to lose to get a good pick. I don't know if there's much that can be done besides mediocrity with this squad and that's definitely not happening now.

[phxspurfan]

I mean, it's possible. Occam's razor, though, is that what we're witnessing is a result of having a roster almost completely filled with bad defensive players. You start five bad defenders and this is what happens

Also, teams are still really juiced / get up to play the Spurs. Our reputation is kind of damaging in the sense that this current team is such a shell of its former self, and other up-and-coming teams desperately want to prove themselves against top tier teams. Spurs (until about this week) were still considered top tier. That may change now as we transform into the Washington Generals, but teams have been waiting / are lining up to beat our asses TBH.

[DPG21920]

I think everyone knows SA has done a great job overall. Past two years is tough. My issue is that there are some obvious free agent whiffs & regardless the main issue is pop putting what he does have in the worst situation possible.

[DPG21920]

Timvp: Even bad teams usually play hard on offense. So to me, SA being top 10 isn’t indicative of effort or focus or respect. It’s not that the guys are just playing poor to their talent level; it’s that they aren’t even putting effort forth.

[SAGirl]

You don’t go down double digits in 58% of your games along with 3 30 point losses without some form of the team tuning out the coach.

This type of quitting on a coach would never look the same as other poisonous situations because of the players and coach, but something beyond talent and poor coaching is happening
You can't have a team led by Paddy Mills in 2018-19. This is what you get.

[therealtruth]

Timvp: Even bad teams usually play hard on offense. So to me, SA being top 10 isn’t indicative of effort or focus or respect. It’s not that the guys are just playing poor to their talent level; it’s that they aren’t even putting effort forth.

This pretty much usually points to the coach. You see the same pattern over when a team is not putting the effort defensively and they change the coach and they start competing defensively. I think Pop relied far too much on the big 3 for leadership. Now there's a leadership void and he's not filling it. Instead he's calling Patty Mills the leader.

[SAGirl]

signing forbes/beli/gay in the same offseason, one year removed from signing patty shows how much they've prioritized defense.

in the same offseason we lost our 3 best wing defenders
Yup. I mean one would say this suckage and defensively challenged team is by design.

[objective]

I respect the frustration but I think that's a little overly dramatic, tbh.

And even if the FO is terrible at signing free agents, the most important thing going forward is the draft. For a small market rebuilding team, the draft is much, much, much more important than free agent decisions ... so the Spurs are set in that regard going forward, unless someone wants to make the argument that the current FO can't draft.


This what I posted a few days ago about the draft:


The draft is like defense:

If you don't secure the defensive rebound or get possession, you didn't do it right.

With the draft, it's good that RC and company could identify so many players and draft them, but without signing them they don't deserve full credit.

Identifying Milutinov or Hanga or Scola or Blossomgame (potentially) etc etc is great and all but they need to sign those players and get the value of the draft rights.

The draft by itself doesn't wave away their other problems. Bad choices and signings will squander the years of even the best players. The Pelicans have wasted most of Davis's years with idiotic overpays on players who were transitioning out of the league (Asik) and other bad deals and trades.

Anyways, there's nothing dramatic about it, just plain obviousness. I know you disappeared after 2013 or whatever it was, but the run up to that 2017 summer and the choices regarding Mills and his free agency was obvious to those in the know. But it was like a slow-motion trainwreck. All the buffoons like Zach Lowe or Nate Duncan who were talking like the Spurs got Mills on a good deal exposed themselves for fools.

Marco wasn't them learning from their mistakes, it was them tripling down with their fingers in their ears, yelling.

[tenbeersbold]

Spurs look bad but lets just say it...The League/Silver has it in for the Spurs
C'mon Spurs get 10 FT's against the Jazz.FFS they are a fouling dream team

Last game Portland came out practically mauling guys,that green light came straight from the league hq
Portland doesn't normally play that intense D,that one sequence where White got thrown down in front of the basket right in front of the baseline ref??? White proceeded to dog Aminu and harass him into a turnover but still that was unreal and at HOME

Pop wagging the dog with his comments about the shit product the NBA is engineering was right but he's put an even bigger target right on SA's back
DDR and Lamarcus are getting mauled out there and it's not being called,I can't really blame them for not giving it their all,how the hell are SA supposed to play when the other side can maul your star players at will but SA can't breath on the other teams players.

LA is the only player besides Lebron to score over 1000 pts a season for the last decade plus.
Let that sink in and the lack of respect he gets from the refs compared to "He-who-cannot-be-breathed-on"

Add in injuries to Murray,Pau,Walker and Rudy hobbling...uggh its ugly but it doesn't help when the boot of the League is applying the pressure
These new rules are even more prone for fixing as they can be selectively enforced as we've seen so far,what a surprise...

[spurs10]

Spurs look bad but lets just say it...The League/Silver has it in for the Spurs
C'mon Spurs get 10 FT's against the Jazz.FFS they are a fouling dream team

Last game Portland came out practically mauling guys,that green light came straight from the league hq
Portland doesn't normally play that intense D,that one sequence where White got thrown down in front of the basket right in front of the baseline ref??? White proceeded to dog Aminu and harass him into a turnover but still that was unreal and at HOME

Pop wagging the dog with his comments about the shit product the NBA is engineering was right but he's put an even bigger target right on SA's back
DDR and Lamarcus are getting mauled out there and it's not being called,I can't really blame them for not giving it their all,how the hell are SA supposed to play when the other side can maul your star players at will but SA can't breath on the other teams players.

LA is the only player besides Lebron to score over 1000 pts a season for the last decade plus.
Let that sink in and the lack of respect he gets from the refs compared to "He-who-cannot-be-breathed-on"

Add in injuries to Murray,Pau,Walker and Rudy hobbling...uggh its ugly but it doesn't help when the boot of the League is applying the pressure
These new rules are even more prone for fixing as they can be selectively enforced as we've seen so far,what a surprise... Good post. No one has seen this in the last couple of decades- the Spurs losing more than winning. I thought what timvp said was interesting about whether he'll stick with Bertans as a starter, or whether Gay is able to remain in the starting lineup. I do think White has to start and I won't be surprised to see his minutes go up tonight.

[polandprzem]

yea welll.... if White played 2 minutes more we would be victorious ... :rolleyes


Bertrans again was not god as a starter


Overall this team looks lost and have no identity

[TD 21]

:wow timvp taking shots at Pop . . . never thought I'd see the day. I guess that means he's now officially a spoiled pessimist.

I don't know that the players have quit on Pop necessarily, I think it just hit them at some point that neither Pop's (overrated) presence or any amount of attention to detail is going to give them a chance in hell of being so much as competent defensively.

Couple that with their archaic offense and lack of a starting PG and they lack the firepower to win based on their offense.

Once that realization hit, they became demoralized. Now they just stagger around in a daze, seemingly waiting for the other shoe to drop and this iteration to be put out of its misery.



Each day that goes by, Kawhi Leonard is looking more and more like the smartest man in the world to walk away from the dumpster fire that is the San Antonio Spurs.


Let the tanking begin my friends.

No, he's looking like what he's looked like for over a year now: a coward and a scumbag. No amount of degree of Spurs suckage justifies his behavior.

[SAGirl]

This just isn't an option, tbh. They probably won't start selling off pieces unless they are at or below .500 near the February deadline.

Even then, they might convince themselves to run it back next year with Murray, a high pick and "internal improvement"
I think you are right but I hope to God no. Theres some players that shouldn't be back. You know if they are back Pop will play them. Please firesale, please.

[SAGirl]

Problem is, this isn't a one player problem. It's a roster issue that has taken years to develop (or mishandle...). Getting a player like Beal, Walker, Murray, Wilt Chamberlain, whatever, won't solve the fact that we have guys like Cunningham, injured 40 year old Pau, soft old school LMA, midget Forbes/Mills effectively as SG, relying on DeRozan to be a perimeter defender, etc.. The new NBA is about guys like Jaren Jackson Jr, Doncic, and Tobias Harris, (long and agile, multi-skilled, almost positionless) and mobile bigs who can switch and rebound/finish, not put up fadeaway 20 foot jumpers all day.

All 3 of those guys can shoot the 3 well and finish inside. Their bread and butter isn't the midrange. Their offense is a lot more varied.

[koriwhat]

I knew Beli was going to be bad, but he has exceeded my expectations. Worst player on the team, and it ain't close.

i was somewhat happy for his signing but damn he's been horrible this season.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

The only thing kawhi leaving did was expose patfo for the frauds that they are.

Yup, Kawhi was surrounded by trash sadly

[DAF86]

Yup, Kawhi was surrounded by trash sadly

Trash doesn't win you 47 games on a NBA season. I hope we still had last season "trash".

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Trash doesn't win you 47 games on a NBA season. I hope we still had last season "trash".

That team overachieved. Lost all of our perimeter defenders in Ka, and green and Kawhi

LMA can’t play for shit with another all star