Jim Jackson: Larry Bird was not transformational player

[SuperCam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HpvWY766SI

:wow

80s NBA exposed :lol

[apalisoc_9]

Bird is not even a top 20 talent. Dirk is a transformational talent. He changed the PF position. Dirk is probably the best white boy player ever.

[FrostKing]

Transform to what and why? Bird's skill set: shooting, passing and rebounding has never been more important than today.

IMO this is just a fancy discussion as to whether Larry could play Tight End in the NFL, which all these current players use as some sort of odd measuring stick. Run and jump like never before but take poor shots, angles on defense and "dont cur" low effort for most the minutes/games/season. Not to mention lack of back to back games played - lets see the effect on athleticism

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

https://i.ibb.co/xCtCvrV/bird3.jpg

:lol the other guys on the panel look like they were going to puke :lol

[baseline bum]

Bird was like taking Magic, subtracting the AIDS, and adding an all-time great jumpshot. Nigga would be dominant in any era.

[DAF86]

Why is racism allowed for black folks? Do you imagine a former white baseball scrub saying Jackie Robinson wasn't a transformational player? :lol

Bird is easily a top 5 player of all-time. Dude could shoot, pass, rebound, dribble. The complete package. He was easily better than Magic, tbh.

[J_Paco]

Second greatest SF after LeBron and could easily play PF in today's "pace and space" era. If Kyle Anderson can play in today's NBA and then surely a more skilled, aggressive and higher BBIQ player like Bird could.

Also, people forget that terrible back injury severely hampered the second half of his career. Kind of how Duncan mensicus tear "hampered" his second half.

[SuperCam]

looking at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr7UV1tiZFc

no one is really putting up much of an effort to contest his shots besides some half assed arm raising... i dont think he could get his shot off in the modern nba tbh

[lefty]

Insecure black people are insecure

[lefty]

Bird was like taking Magic, subtracting the AIDS, and adding an all-time great jumpshot. Nigga would be dominant in any era.

[140]

Bird was like taking Magic, subtracting the AIDS, and adding an all-time great jumpshot. Nigga would be dominant in any era.


Why is racism allowed for black folks? Do you imagine a former white baseball scrub saying Jackie Robinson wasn't a transformational player? :lol

Bird is easily a top 5 player of all-time. Dude could shoot, pass, rebound, dribble. The complete package. He was easily better than Magic, tbh.


Insecure black people are insecure

[FrostKing]

Why is racism allowed for black folks? Do you imagine a former white baseball scrub saying Jackie Robinson wasn't a transformational player? :lol

Bird is easily a top 5 player of all-time. Dude could shoot, pass, rebound, dribble. The complete package. He was easily better than Magic, tbh.
It is the double standard - racist to admit Bird would out smart (schemes) James & Durant but perfectly fine arguing they would out athlete him.

I didn't watch that long clip but did they touch on IQ or even bball intelligence? Doubt it. Remember Lebron is "more than an athlete" as the odd ESPN propaganda program attempts to force us to believe

[DAF86]

It is the double standard - it is racist to admit Bird would out smart (schemes) James & Durant but perfectly fine arguing they would out athlete him.

I didn't watch that long clip but did they touch on IQ or even bball intelligence? Doubt it. Remember Lebron is "more than an athlete" as the ESPN propaganda program forces us to believe

Don't drag me into your white racism son. I'm against all kinds of racisms, tbh. :lol

[lefty]

James Worthy: "I would rather guard Jordan than Bird."

Pat Riley: "I'd want Jordan to take the shot with the game on the line. I'd want Bird to take it if my LIFE was on the line."

Isiah Thomas: "if you locked me, Michael, Magic and Larry in a room----I think Larry is the one who makes it out".

When Bird retired, Jordan sent in a video congratulating Larry on a great career. Jordan said "I'm not sorry to see you go. I'm tired of seeing your face. You stopped me from achieving many of my goals (or something to that effect)

[FrostKing]

Don't drag me into your white racism son. I'm against all kinds of racisms, tbh. :lol
Settle down kiddo.

[phxspurfan]

Bird had good size and was a good scorer and highly competitive. That alone, along with playing on a stacked, NBA darling, big market team that got a shit ton of favoritism/calls, was enough for him to be overrated. But agree, in the big picture of all that is NBA player history, guys like Bird, Parish, McHale, were simply "very good." They weren't great as compared with otherworldly talents/athletes that came later, such as Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Dirk, etc.

[FrostKing]

Bird had good size and was a good scorer and highly competitive. That alone, along with playing on a stacked, NBA darling, big market team that got a shit ton of favoritism/calls, was enough for him to be overrated. But agree, in the big picture of all that is NBA player history, guys like Bird, Parish, McHale, were simply "very good." They weren't great as compared with otherworldly talents/athletes that came later, such as Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Dirk, etc.
Although I rank Duncan above Shaq, James, Kobe

Why would Tim be included in that list but Bird not? Tim IS THE Larry of modern greats. Tim and his fundamentals, work ethic & leadership are the closest thing since Larry

[Chucho]

Jim Jackson was a truly transformational player. Nigga's uniform transformed every season.

[lefty]

Jim Jackson was a truly transformational player. Nigga's uniform transformed every season.
:lol

[140]

People saying Dirk > Bird :lol Dirk is my favorite athlete ever by far, and top 15 all time in my book, but Bird is just on another level. He was the complete package. GOAT talent tbh

[Killakobe81]

Bird is not even a top 20 talent. Dirk is a transformational talent. He changed the PF position. Dirk is probably the best white boy player ever.

best shooter I have seen pre Curry & Klay ...
but Bird was a better all around player.
Overrated by Amb and few others on here but Bird is a great player.
GOAT SF pre -Lebron ...

[140]

Jim Jackson was a truly transformational player. Nigga's uniform transformed every season.
:lol

[Killakobe81]

Jim Jackson was a truly transformational player. Nigga's uniform transformed every season.

:rollin

[Killakobe81]

People saying Dirk > Bird :lol Dirk is my favorite athlete ever by far, and top 15 all time in my book, but Bird is just on another level. He was the complete package. GOAT talent tbh

appreciate your honesty but Bird is great top 10-15 player ever and 2nd greatest SF but is not a GOAT, stop it.
GOAT SF BEFORE Lebron?
Absolutely.

[Killakobe81]

Why is racism allowed for black folks? Do you imagine a former white baseball scrub saying Jackie Robinson wasn't a transformational player? :lol

Bird is easily a top 5 player of all-time. Dude could shoot, pass, rebound, dribble. The complete package. He was easily better than Magic, tbh.

At scoring/shooting, sure.
But no he was not.

[Killakobe81]

oh and Jimmy jackson is dumb and got cucked for Toni Braxton by his own team-mates.

[Rummpd]

Bird is not even a top 20 talent. Dirk is a transformational talent. He changed the PF position. Dirk is probably the best white boy player ever.



Rubbish Bird was great and the more important the game the greater he usually became. Today he would be unstoppable.

[Raven]

Why is racism allowed for black folks? Do you imagine a former white baseball scrub saying Jackie Robinson wasn't a transformational player? :lol

Bird is easily a top 5 player of all-time. Dude could shoot, pass, rebound, dribble. The complete package. He was easily better than Magic, tbh.
this

[DAF86]

At scoring/shooting, sure.
But no he was not.

Bird could do anything Magic did, plus shoot at elite levels and don't be a complete traffic cone on D. There's literally no point to make to have Magic over Bird.

[spurraider21]

Jim Jackson was a truly transformational player. Nigga's uniform transformed every season.
gotem

[LkrFan]

Bird was like taking Magic, subtracting the AIDS, and adding an all-time great jumpshot. Nigga would be dominant in any era.

:lol pretty much

[140]

appreciate your honesty but Bird is great top 10-15 player ever and 2nd greatest SF but is not a GOAT, stop it.
GOAT SF BEFORE Lebron?
Absolutely.
I said he had GOAT level talent, not that he's in the conversation (injuries took care of that)

Plus Bird is easily top 10 (more like top 5) :lol your laker/magic fan bias is showing tbh

[140]

Bird could do anything Magic did, plus shoot at elite levels and don't be a complete traffic cone on D. There's literally no point to make to have Magic over Bird.

[FkLA]

looking at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr7UV1tiZFc

no one is really putting up much of an effort to contest his shots besides some half assed arm raising... i dont think he could get his shot off in the modern nba tbh

Having never seen him play (too young), I actually went into it thinking I might end up agreeing with you, but nah if anything that video helps his case. High release point, knows how to use hus body to keep defenders grounded on his fadeaway, his fadeaway looks smooth and he gets decent elevation on it, solid handles. He looks like the real deal.

Definitely wayyyyy better than Donutcic will ever be, tbh.

[baseline bum]

Bird could do anything Magic did, plus shoot at elite levels and don't be a complete traffic cone on D. There's literally no point to make to have Magic over Bird.

Pretty sure Bird couldn't take a dick the way Magic could.

[baseline bum]

I said he had GOAT level talent, not that he's in the conversation (injuries took care of that)

Plus Bird is easily top 10 (more like top 5) :lol your laker/magic fan bias is showing tbh

I can't imagine what Bird could have accomplished if he didn't fuck his back up in the summer of 83. Unbelievable how amazing he was playing most of his career hurt.

[Killakobe81]

Bird could do anything Magic did, plus shoot at elite levels and don't be a complete traffic cone on D. There's literally no point to make to have Magic over Bird.

Im not even gonna make this argument because i can see SOME of yall are race baiting and secondly I dont have to.

All the lists you niccas point to that have Duncan and Lebron over Achilles also have Magic over Bird.
Either those lists you used to buffer your duncan arguments are legit or horseshit but you sure were enjoying Bean at 12 ...

[Killakobe81]

I said he had GOAT level talent, not that he's in the conversation (injuries took care of that)

Plus Bird is easily top 10 (more like top 5) :lol your laker/magic fan bias is showing tbh

I dont have to be biased i just point to ...

this http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankalltime/greatest-players-ever

or

this https://www.si.com/nba/2016/02/09/michael-jordan-lebron-james-stephen-curry-nba-greatest

we can take my bias out of it ...

[phxspurfan]

Although I rank Duncan above Shaq, James, Kobe

Why would Tim be included in that list but Bird not? Tim IS THE Larry of modern greats. Tim and his fundamentals, work ethic & leadership are the closest thing since Larry

In his era, Tim was more physically equipped at 7’ 260lb to carry his franchise despite having an arguably worse supporting cast (during his early years 00-03). He demonstrated he could truly carry his team to rings, in a small market without huge favoritism that comes along with the Boston/LA/NYC/arguably Chicago markets. The league wasn’t that interested in making a team from SA it’s banner team, and those finals had low ratings. But Duncan was that much better than the competition that it worked, despite having supporting casts with guys like this nd of career Steve Smith, end of career post cancer Sean Elliott, end of career back problems DRob, end of career Terry Porter etc. those guys don’t compare to McHale, Parrish and co, all of which Bird had to help shoulder the load.

[Killakobe81]

BTW if you can ball race doesnt matter as a Cowboys fan I love LVH and Jaylon Smith but for some reason I just love the way LVH plays

The Wolf Hunter is "my nicca" even over Jaylon who is also a beast.

[baseline bum]

but you sure were enjoying Bean at 12 ...

Way too high tbh

[Killakobe81]

One last note on Jim Jackson is what he saying really a dig.

Dirk was more transofrmational .., but Bird was teh all around better player.
Bird and Magic helped save the NBA so MJ could grow it further ...

Bird's legacy is in permanent ink. he just aint greater than Lebron or Magic.

[phxspurfan]

Bird was like taking Magic, subtracting the AIDS, and adding an all-time great jumpshot. Nigga would be dominant in any era.

Bird would have been Jim Jackson at worst, Grant Hill / Glen Rice / Joe Johnson at best in the 90s/00s where teams had enforcers that put guys on their backs. In today’s NBA he would be like Doncic. Pretty damn good. But guys like KD, LeBroom, Kawhi would shit all over his unathletic ass

[Killakobe81]

Way too high tbh

Maybe. I don't really care tbh and he will get bumped down over time anyways

[Chucho]

KK81 getting shit on per par and lying about his bias.

Bird was just a better 2 way player. Johnson is very close, but in their absolute primes, Bird kills Magic since AIDs couldnt.

[FrostKing]

In his era, Tim was more physically equipped at 7’ 260lb to carry his franchise despite having an arguably worse supporting cast (during his early years 00-03). He demonstrated he could truly carry his team to rings, in a small market without huge favoritism that comes along with the Boston/LA/NYC/arguably Chicago markets. The league wasn’t that interested in making a team from SA it’s banner team, and those finals had low ratings. But Duncan was that much better than the competition that it worked, despite having supporting casts with guys like this nd of career Steve Smith, end of career post cancer Sean Elliott, end of career back problems DRob, end of career Terry Porter etc. those guys don’t compare to McHale, Parrish and co, all of which Bird had to help shoulder the load.
Soon you will see the same exact critiques of Duncan's game that you do of Birds. Because there is no numerical value for fundamentals, work ethic or leadership. NBA will never test for IQ either. Duncan and Bird were slow, couldn't jump and had boring personalities. These are now increasingly the measuring sticks for talent.

Comparing Birds roster to Duncan's, I'm not seeing a large gap or even one. As if Johnson, Ainge and Maxwell were world beaters. They had a core of 3 just like Tim\Ginobili and Parker. Then had guys come and go like Robinson to Walton.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Pretty sure Bird couldn't take a dick the way Magic could.
Your fascination with dicks is disturbing.

[baseline bum]

Soon you will see the same exact critiques of Duncan's game that you do of Birds. Because there is no numerical value for fundamentals, work ethic or leadership. NBA will never test for IQ either. Duncan and Bird were slow, couldn't jump and had boring personalities. These are now increasingly the measuring sticks for talent.

Agree fully with this

[E20]

bird's skill set would not translate to today's game at all. if you've played basketball you would understand the argument. watch game tape of bird play, how he dribbles, how he shoots, foot work, maneuverability, etc and compare it to players today it's not even comparable. the game's mechanics have evolved greatly because of the improvements in phsyciality, speed, and athleticism. the moves and the shots that bird would be equipped with would not work against today' comp. bird would have to completely redefine how he would handle and shoot the ball to play in today's league.

bird for the time he was playing was an elite and another cog in the transformation of the game and suitable for his era. however for today? not so much

[E20]

also lmao duncan was not slow, he became crippled with plantar fasciitis during the middle/latter parts of his career, duncan much like most of the nba was a freak athlete. he prolonged his career because he was so highly skilled and his skills were aligned with the modern era.

[HarlemHeat37]

I've been saying this here forever, the media is always late with these takes:lol

I won't elaborate much more, though, since the feds are on alert, disguising my IP here isn't sufficient..in regards to criticism, there are 3 pro athletes that cause White people to get DEEPLY offended: Michael Jordan, Peyton Manning and Larry Bird..I've learned my lesson in the past..

[DAF86]

Im not even gonna make this argument because i can see SOME of yall are race baiting and secondly I dont have to.

All the lists you niccas point to that have Duncan and Lebron over Achilles also have Magic over Bird.
Either those lists you used to buffer your duncan arguments are legit or horseshit but you sure were enjoying Bean at 12 ...

lol race baiting.

Now, I don't have time but later I will explain you with facts why Bird is better.

[Killakobe81]

I've been saying this here forever, the media is always late with these takes:lol

I won't elaborate much more, though, since the feds are on alert, disguising my IP here isn't sufficient..in regards to criticism, there are 3 pro athletes that cause White people to get DEEPLY offended: Michael Jordan, Peyton Manning and Larry Bird..I've learned my lesson in the past..

LeBron too if you buy KD

[lefty]

Bird could do anything Magic did, plus shoot at elite levels and don't be a complete traffic cone on D. There's literally no point to make to have Magic over Bird.
This

[lefty]

bird's skill set would not translate to today's game at all. if you've played basketball you would understand the argument. watch game tape of bird play, how he dribbles, how he shoots, foot work, maneuverability, etc and compare it to players today it's not even comparable. the game's mechanics have evolved greatly because of the improvements in phsyciality, speed, and athleticism. the moves and the shots that bird would be equipped with would not work against today' comp. bird would have to completely redefine how he would handle and shoot the ball to play in today's league.

bird for the time he was playing was an elite and another cog in the transformation of the game and suitable for his era. however for today? not so much

Bird would be perfect for t:lolsays NBA

Ehlo would be the equivalent of Klay Thompson tbh :lol

[lefty]

And Bird would be able to readapt his technique.

Didn’t he injure his wrist early in his career and had to tweak his shooting technique?
Worked out pretty well for him ybh

He also played with a fucked up back for a good part of his career.
Adjusted pretty well

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Imagine hyping up a white American player who played against plumbers.

[spurraider21]

Bird would be perfect for t:lolsays NBA

Ehlo would be the equivalent of Klay Thompson tbh :lol
imagine mark price in this era

[E20]

Bird would be perfect for tsays NBA

Ehlo would be the equivalent of Klay Thompson tbh
i disagree for my aforementioned reasons


And Bird would be able to readapt his technique.

Didn’t he injure his wrist early in his career and had to tweak his shooting technique?
Worked out pretty well for him ybh

He also played with a fucked up back for a good part of his career.
Adjusted pretty well

he was able to do that given the landscape of the league at that current time and he was a savant in his era. just because he did that back then is not proof or anything of meaning that he could hang in today's league.

if i played back in the 50/60's i'd be considered an all time great for that era. not because i would be more athletic but because my skills and moveset would be so much mroe advanced.

[TD 21]

Why is racism allowed for black folks? Do you imagine a former white baseball scrub saying Jackie Robinson wasn't a transformational player? :lol

Bird is easily a top 5 player of all-time. Dude could shoot, pass, rebound, dribble. The complete package. He was easily better than Magic, tbh.

I'd argue the opposite, but since you perceive it to be so, chalk it up to being of the perks for being treated anywhere from second class citizens to vermin throughout history.

Jackson not bowing down to your white god doesn't automatically make him a racist. I don't see the white media (that's supposed to at least pretend to be unbiased) chastised for openly cheerleading for Doncic and Jokic.

[lefty]

imagine mark price in this era

He would be MVP candidate every year tbh

[lefty]

i disagree for my aforementioned reasons



he was able to do that given the landscape of the league at that current time and he was a savant in his era. just because he did that back then is not proof or anything of meaning that he could hang in today's league.

if i played back in the 50/60's i'd be considered an all time great for that era. not because i would be more athletic but because my skills and moveset would be so much mroe advanced.
That’s not how it works there is no time travel machine

If Bird played today he would have benefited from a different system , nutrition, training , etc etc

[TimmyBuckets]

Dumb video is dumb

[Nivek_ogre]

Didn't Jim Jackson play for 27 nba teams.

[DAF86]

I'd argue the opposite, but since you perceive it to be so, chalk it up to being of the perks for being treated anywhere from second class citizens to vermin throughout history.

Jackson not bowing down to your white god doesn't automatically make him a racist. I don't see the white media (that's supposed to at least pretend to be unbiased) chastised for openly cheerleading for Doncic and Jokic.

Dude, I couldn't give less of a fuck about Bird. I'm also well outside the black/white war. I just call it like I see it. If some no name red neck fuck would say anything like that about a black icon, he would get called a racist and be bullied out of his job.

I understand the history, but at some point you gotta get past that.

[DMC]

https://lovelace-media.imgix.net/getty/510264272.jpg

Transformational

[DAF86]

Im not even gonna make this argument because i can see SOME of yall are race baiting and secondly I dont have to.

All the lists you niccas point to that have Duncan and Lebron over Achilles also have Magic over Bird.
Either those lists you used to buffer your duncan arguments are legit or horseshit but you sure were enjoying Bean at 12 ...

Bird: 24.3 ppg - 10 rpg - 6.3 apg - 0.8 bpg - 1.7 spg - 50 FG% - 38 3pt % - 7.2 bpm - 79.7 VORP

Magic: 19.4 ppg - 7.2 rpg - 11.2 apg - 0.2 bpg - 1.9 spg - 52 FG% - 30 3pt% - 7.2 bpm - 77.4 VORP

Most categories favour Bird. Also, if you look at defensive metrics, Bird also has Magic beat. There's just no argument to say Magic was better. They are more or less the same player with Bird having an abysmal advantage on the most important aspect in basketball: shooting.

If someone were to draft these players today, you would be a fool to take Magic over Bird.

[Fabbs]

Bird: 24.3 ppg - 10 rpg - 6.3 apg - 0.8 bpg - 1.7 spg - 50 FG% - 38 3pt % - 7.2 bpm - 79.7 VORP

Magic: 19.4 ppg - 7.2 rpg - 11.2 apg - 0.2 bpg - 1.9 spg - 52 FG% - 30 3pt% - 7.2 bpm - 77.4 VORP

Most categories favour Bird. Also, if you look at defensive metrics, Bird also has Magic beat. There's just no argument to say Magic was better. They are more or less the same player with Bird having an abysmal advantage on the most important aspect in basketball: shooting.

If someone were to draft these players today, you would be a fool to take Magic over Bird.
Lakers Stern bogus foul calls awarded:
Magic: No calculator big enough to total.

Faggots stats would drop by 20% if he was made to play like non Lakers.

[hater]

What a buch of stupid motherfuckers

Bird was a big dude and had a crazy jumpshot. Better than 95% of todays nigas

Can u imagine him in todays game where you cant even breathe on a shooter? :lmao

This motherfucker bird would dominate this faggot ass game of today

[hater]

Bird would be perfect for t:lolsays NBA

Ehlo would be the equivalent of Klay Thompson tbh :lol

This niga gets it :tu

:lmao todays faggot nba where you cant even sneeze on a motherfucker without fouling out

[hater]

Another player who would obliterate this ladyboy league f today is Mugsy Bogues

Remember, you cannot even bat an eyelash on a player without getting a flagrant 1 in this league

Remember, that skill-less pathetic midget from the celtics Isiah Thomas was dominating cuple years ago :lol

Mugsy would be hands down MVP in todays bitch made league

[E20]

Dude, I couldn't give less of a fuck about Bird. I'm also well outside the black/white war. I just call it like I see it. If some no name red neck fuck would say anything like that about a black icon, he would get called a racist and be bullied out of his job.

I understand the history, but at some point you gotta get past that.

I have no contention with this and agree with it

[E20]

That’s not how it works there is no time travel machine

If Bird played today he would have benefited from a different system , nutrition, training , etc etc

So that completely derails the main point because if bird were to benefit from all that then that is not the bird we know and are talking about that’s a completely different player/entity/person altogether that has never existed before and therefore a comparison or hypothetical cannot be made. But even if bird grew up in this era scouts would not be looking at him in HS or college because of all the freak athletes he would have to compete with he’d be drowned out

I was under the assumption that the scenario is you put prime 1980s Larry Bird into the contemporary NBA and my assertion is that his skill set would not translate well into today’s game And would basically suck

[FkLA]

In his era, Tim was more physically equipped at 7’ 260lb to carry his franchise despite having an arguably worse supporting cast (during his early years 00-03). He demonstrated he could truly carry his team to rings, in a small market without huge favoritism that comes along with the Boston/LA/NYC/arguably Chicago markets. The league wasn’t that interested in making a team from SA it’s banner team, and those finals had low ratings. But Duncan was that much better than the competition that it worked, despite having supporting casts with guys like this nd of career Steve Smith, end of career post cancer Sean Elliott, end of career back problems DRob, end of career Terry Porter etc. those guys don’t compare to McHale, Parrish and co, all of which Bird had to help shoulder the load.

:lmao

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/02/incredulous.gif

[ambchang]

:lol at all these arguments about how much more superior athletically :lol today’s nba players are when guys like curry and Durant are dominating the league. When Thompson is some sort of mad player and Draymond green is some lynchpin to a dynasty. Hell, how athletic is Kawhi? Harden? Doncic? Jokic? Lillard?

The only players who are exceptionally athletic and dominating the league are Lebron, Westbrook and Davis. And westbrrom is the only one out of the three who is putting up great numbers strictly because of his athleticism. And his teams generally suck.

[pad300]

I gotta admit, I understand what Jim Jackson is saying, although I wouldn't have used the word transformational for it. I just think he has drawn where his line is a little off. There have been a VERY few select players in the league who have been so dominant, so great, that they had opponents (including opposing teams that could beat their team), but no individual talent who could legitimately be called a rival during their prime. Micheal Jordan. Lebron James (yeah, you could argue for KD and Kawhi, but both came relatively late in his career, at 30+, and neither can actually hang when it comes to creating for their teammates as opposed to their own scoring). Even more controversially, Wilt - yeah he got beat a lot by better, more talented teams, but as an individual specimen of a player, he had no rival (IMO, of course). Larry can't make that claim because there was Magic (and vice versa). Duncan can't because of Shaq, and so forth.

[Killakobe81]

Bird: 24.3 ppg - 10 rpg - 6.3 apg - 0.8 bpg - 1.7 spg - 50 FG% - 38 3pt % - 7.2 bpm - 79.7 VORP

Magic: 19.4 ppg - 7.2 rpg - 11.2 apg - 0.2 bpg - 1.9 spg - 52 FG% - 30 3pt% - 7.2 bpm - 77.4 VORP

Most categories favour Bird. Also, if you look at defensive metrics, Bird also has Magic beat. There's just no argument to say Magic was better. They are more or less the same player with Bird having an abysmal advantage on the most important aspect in basketball: shooting.

If someone were to draft these players today, you would be a fool to take Magic over Bird.

There are plenty people smarter and more experienced in Hoops than either of us that disagree you picked some stats... I could pick others... Again just like with Pau you favor a player you like over one you don't. Yeah!!
If you were trying to prove something to me you wasted your time and most likely you didn't change anyone else's... There are people trolling, race baiting and a few who overrated Bird based on his peak... Bird is, like Tupac, Biggie great at their best but because the career was cut short overrated by some... Magic too due to HIV but he still greater than Bird, period. Saw both play plenty of times in person and on TV doubt you are old enough to do the same...

[DAF86]

There are plenty people smarter and more experienced in Hoops than either of us that disagree you picked some stats... I could pick others... Again just like with Pau you favor a player you like over one you don't. Yeah!!
If you were trying to prove something to me you wasted your time and most likely you didn't change anyone else's... There are people trolling, race baiting and a few who overrated Bird based on his peak... Bird is, like Tupac, Biggie great at their best but because the career was cut short overrated by some... Magic too due to HIV but he still greater than Bird, period. Saw both play plenty of times in person and on TV doubt you are old enough to do the same...

Well, why bring stats and facts when you can provide this type of flawless argumentation? :lol

[resistanze]

Wow, good thing I watched the video I have no idea what the fuck you people are arguing about :lol

Even though I don't really agree with him (he seems to go back and forth on his criteria) he ends up landing his argument for Bird about 'superstar presence' rather than actual basketball skills. He even shoots down Kobe as being a 'transformational player' (something unheard of in sports media) so I don't know what the fuck racism or whatever has to do with his opinion. :lol

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Sad part is that Jim Jackson isn't even the worst NBA analyst on that show. Every basketball segment they bring in Dontae whatever to just suck off LeBron. It's hilarious to watch. Also if Steph Curry and Klay Thompson can dominate games then you bet your ass that bird could. I mean Klay scored 50 points in a game where he took 11 dribbles. Oh the athleticism he showed! Seriously, besides Kawhi, who would be guarding him? He weighs 30 pounds more than Butler or George and he knows how to post up. He can shoot the 3, work the mid range and pass. He drives both left and right handed equally. He would be unstoppable offensively. He would be atrocious on defense but there aren't any 2 way stars anymore so who cares. The league has given up on defense and gone to 100% offense which was his strong suit. I feel comfortable saying he would thrive.

[Bynumite]

I've been saying this here forever, the media is always late with these takes:lol

I won't elaborate much more, though, since the feds are on alert, disguising my IP here isn't sufficient..in regards to criticism, there are 3 pro athletes that cause White people to get DEEPLY offended: Michael Jordan, Peyton Manning and Larry Bird..I've learned my lesson in the past..

Insinuating the feds would waste time, money and manpower following your posts on spurstalk, omg i'm in tears

https://media.giphy.com/media/1PgPvWLfXGkCY/giphy.gif

Good one bro. I laughed :tu

[daslicer]

Insinuating the feds would waste time, money and manpower following your posts on spurstalk, omg i'm in tears

https://media.giphy.com/media/1PgPvWLfXGkCY/giphy.gif

Good one bro. I laughed :tu

I was about to say the same thing but you beat me to it.

[FrostKing]

Bird & Jordan > Magic & James

[Killakobe81]

:lol at all these arguments about how much more superior athletically :lol today’s nba players are when guys like curry and Durant are dominating the league. When Thompson is some sort of mad player and Draymond green is some lynchpin to a dynasty. Hell, how athletic is Kawhi? Harden? Doncic? Jokic? Lillard?

The only players who are exceptionally athletic and dominating the league are Lebron, Westbrook and Davis. And westbrrom is the only one out of the three who is putting up great numbers strictly because of his athleticism. And his teams generally suck.

Durant is pretty athletic for a guy his size and with his length... You also forgot Giannis

[Killakobe81]

Wow, good thing I watched the video I have no idea what the fuck you people are arguing about :lol

Even though I don't really agree with him (he seems to go back and forth on his criteria) he ends up landing his argument for Bird about 'superstar presence' rather than actual basketball skills. He even shoots down Kobe as being a 'transformational player' (something unheard of in sports media) so I don't know what the fuck racism or whatever has to do with his opinion. :lol

Kobe wasn't either he was very skilled maybe even more than Jordan but still a copy so he is not transformational either

[Killakobe81]

Well, why bring stats and facts when you can provide this type of flawless argumentation? :lol

Because I can point to plenty of others who spent the time and though I love to debate I realize for the most part it's wasted here... I would go bball refference point out stats etc but no one is changing their mind especially about players the have been debated for over 30 years like Bird and Magic. People have chosen a side VORP aunt changing shit.
Bird vs Bron or Dirk is a debate
Steph vs Isiah or Stockton etc

Id argue those but the ones the have been done ad nauseum on here like Kobe Tim or Hakeem Duncan etc are boring to me.

[Pelicans78]

This thread shows how clueless millennial are. Bird helped turned a 50 loss Celtics team into a 60 win team where he was the only major addition. Seriously hard to believe how many stupid people post on this forum. And thinking Bird couldn’t play in this era where defense is pretty much non-existent :lol

[Killakobe81]

This thread shows how clueless millennial are. Bird helped turned a 50 loss Celtics team into a 60 win team where he was the only major addition. Seriously hard to believe how many stupid people post on this forum. And thinking Bird couldn’t play in this era where defense is pretty much non-existent :lol

I don't get it either Doncic is dropping 19 at 19 in today's NBA prime Bird dropping at least 25

[hater]

This thread shows how clueless millennial are. Bird helped turned a 50 loss Celtics team into a 60 win team where he was the only major addition. Seriously hard to believe how many stupid people post on this forum. And thinking Bird couldn’t play in this era where defense is pretty much non-existent :lol

Pretty much

:lol these modafuckas dont realize todays game scores more points because the rules are rigged on the shooters favor :lol

And Bird was a shooter there is no question about that.

These motherfuckers need to lay off the fentanyl tbqh

[SAGirl]

What a buch of stupid motherfuckers

Bird was a big dude and had a crazy jumpshot. Better than 95% of todays nigas

Can u imagine him in todays game where you cant even breathe on a shooter? :lmao

This motherfucker bird would dominate this faggot ass game of today
Yup. I remember seeing highlights of a game where he killed I think it was the Hawks shooting with his off hand. I’d take Bird in this era for sure. He was a skilled player.

[E20]

everyone on the bird bandwagon's argument's are filled with flaws and choose to ignore a number of other factors as to why birds skill set would not hold in today's game. also this has nothing to do with the fact taht birds white, my stance applies to almost all players in his generation

[DAF86]

Because I can point to plenty of others who spent the time and though I love to debate I realize for the most part it's wasted here... I would go bball refference point out stats etc but no one is changing their mind especially about players the have been debated for over 30 years like Bird and Magic. People have chosen a side VORP aunt changing shit.
Bird vs Bron or Dirk is a debate
Steph vs Isiah or Stockton etc

Id argue those but the ones the have been done ad nauseum on here like Kobe Tim or Hakeem Duncan etc are boring to me.

How can Bird and Lebron be a debate, but Bird and Magic isn't? Are you implying Magic is better than Lebron? :lmao

[hater]

Even That stupid looking stiff KIyle Korver is a good asset in todays nba :lmao

Drugs are bad people. Say no to drugs

[Killakobe81]

How can Bird and Lebron be a debate, but Bird and Magic isn't? Are you implying Magic is better than Lebron? :lmao

One they played the same position.
Two before Bron there was little debate tat Bird was the best SF.
Magic and Bird play different positions which is also why the Duncan /Kobe one was stupid...
And again it's been debated since the NCAA final and throughout the 80s its a waste of time and Magic is the correct answer... Just my opinion and of course I'm biased but I also don't care bird is great too

[Killakobe81]

And no I don't rate magic over Bron as an overall player

[DAF86]

One they played the same position.
Two before Bron there was little debate tat Bird was the best SF.
Magic and Bird play different positions which is also why the Duncan /Kobe one was stupid...
And again it's been debated since the NCAA final and throughout the 80s its a waste of time and Magic is the correct answer... Just my opinion and of course I'm biased but I also don't care bird is great too

As you said, it's your opinion and you are biased. My non biased opinion is that Bird is better.

[Killakobe81]

As you said, it's your opinion and you are biased. My non biased opinion is that Bird is better.

You don't have an unbiased opinion but you entitled anyway we both agree Bird is great and can play today let's move on...

[DAF86]

You don't have an unbiased opinion but you entitled anyway we both agree Bird is great and can play today let's move on...

Why not? I don't give a fuck about either Bird or Magic. I feel exactly the same about both those dudes.

[Killakobe81]

Why not? I don't give a fuck about either Bird or Magic. I feel exactly the same about both those dudes.

I don't believe in unbiased unless you are just looking at data with no preconceived notions or any opinion on the subject matter. You said bird was better and sought the data to back that. I call bullshit if you say you had no opinion before you did so... You are human... If you had never seen either play and just looked at the data or studied film and then made a conclusion that would be unbiased... But I can tell you value shooting so how can your opinion be unbiased? You like what you like you are not a computer

[DAF86]

I don't believe in unbiased unless you are just looking at data with no preconceived notions or any opinion on the subject matter. You said bird was better and sought the data to back that. I call bullshit if you say you had no opinion before you did so... You are human... If you had never seen either play and just looked at the data or studied film and then made a conclusion that would be unbiased... But I can tell you value shooting so how can your opinion be unbiased? You like what you like you are not a computer

How can you not value shooting when analyzing basketball? :lol

Besides, it's not like Bird was a one-dimensional shooter. I'm not going to argue a guy like Reggie Miller being better than Magic, just because Reggie can shoot. That would be retarded.

My argument is that both Magic and Bird could do it all: playmake, pass, rebound, etc. The difference is that, in top of that, Bird was an elite shooter and the better defender.

Seriously, I would like to hear your reasoning behind thinking Magic was better, because untill now you haven't said shit. You just mentioned all-time lists and said "Magic is better. Period". You didn't provide a single argument. What did Magic do so much better than Bird that, in your opinion, made him the better player without a doubt?

[Killakobe81]

How can you not value shooting when analyzing basketball? :lol

Besides, it's not like Bird was a one-dimensional shooter. I'm not going to argue a guy like Reggie Miller being better than Magic, just because Reggie can shoot. That would be retarded.

My argument is that both Magic and Bird could do it all: playmake, pass, rebound, etc. The difference is that, in top of that, Bird was an elite shooter and the better defender.

Seriously, I would like to hear your reasoning behind thinking Magic was better, because untill now you haven't said shit. You just mentioned all-time lists and said "Magic is better. Period". You didn't provide a single argument. What did Magic do so much better than Bird that, in your opinion, made him the better player without a doubt?

I appreciate a good debate but this is not one.
I can cherry pick stats, signature moments head to head rings etc. But Bird himself said Magic was better which is enough for me and backs up my own biased eye test.

[DAF86]

I appreciate a good debate but this is not one.

Why not?


I can cherry pick stats, signature moments head to head rings etc.

Do that, tbh. I'm still waiting for you to do anything to try to prove your point.


But Bird himself said Magic was better which is enough for me and backs up my own biased eye test.

Not that it would make any difference on my perception, but link?

[HarlemHeat37]

Insinuating the feds would waste time, money and manpower following your posts on spurstalk, omg i'm in tears

https://media.giphy.com/media/1PgPvWLfXGkCY/giphy.gif

Good one bro. I laughed :tu

This might be the stupidest post in the history of this forum:lol

[HarlemHeat37]

White American players went from 40% of the total players in the league to less than 5% in just 30 years or so..

I have serious admiration for any White American with a significant role in the league today, they've overcome the odds..I'm a big fan of guys like Redick, Korver, etc..

The only successful role for a White American in the NBA today is as a specialist, yet I'm supposed to believe that Larry Bird would be a superstar? Stop:lol even if I would suspend disbelief and give the benefit of the doubt, the best he could be is the best player on a bad team like Love or somebody like Houston's Chandler Parsons..

I'm also not factoring the likelihood that Black players in the league were forced to go easy on him, as well..Isiah Thomas and Rodman hinted at it, but couldn't elaborate further, knowing they would be blackballed from the league.

[daslicer]

This might be the stupidest post in the history of this forum:lol

:lol Can't say this is true since your posts on average tend to be a 1000x stupider than Bynumite.

[140]

White American players went from 40% of the total players in the league to less than 5% in just 30 years or so..

I have serious admiration for any White American with a significant role in the league today, they've overcome the odds..I'm a big fan of guys like Redick, Korver, etc..

The only successful role for a White American in the NBA today is as a specialist, yet I'm supposed to believe that Larry Bird would be a superstar? Stop:lol even if I would suspend disbelief and give the benefit of the doubt, the best he could be is the best player on a bad team like Love or somebody like Houston's Chandler Parsons..

I'm also not factoring the likelihood that Black players in the league were forced to go easy on him, as well..Isiah Thomas and Rodman hinted at it, but couldn't elaborate further, knowing they would be blackballed from the league.
Lumping Bird with one dimensional players like Korver and Redick just because they're white and american :lmao what a shitty race bait troll job son :lmao

[ambchang]

Durant is pretty athletic for a guy his size and with his length... You also forgot Giannis

Yes. Giannis is very athletic and I think pretty much all of his success is due to that.

Durant is coordinated for a guy his size. Quick as well but nobody ever called dirk nowitzki athletic because of his coordination.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Jim Jackson was a truly transformational player. Nigga's uniform transformed every season.

yep, and that faggot quit on his team (2005 Hornets were last place in the West) and pretty much forced a trade to Phoenix. They didn't win shit that year or ever anyways, so haha.

[daslicer]

White American players went from 40% of the total players in the league to less than 5% in just 30 years or so..

I have serious admiration for any White American with a significant role in the league today, they've overcome the odds..I'm a big fan of guys like Redick, Korver, etc..

The only successful role for a White American in the NBA today is as a specialist, yet I'm supposed to believe that Larry Bird would be a superstar? Stop:lol even if I would suspend disbelief and give the benefit of the doubt, the best he could be is the best player on a bad team like Love or somebody like Houston's Chandler Parsons..

I'm also not factoring the likelihood that Black players in the league were forced to go easy on him, as well..Isiah Thomas and Rodman hinted at it, but couldn't elaborate further, knowing they would be blackballed from the league.

Down below I have listed a few conspiracy theories you have created in the past. Which one is your favorite?
1. Stern threatened the livelihoods of black players in the league during the 80's and forced them to allow Larry Bird to be great.
2. Michael Jordan was behind the death of his father.
3. Shabazz Napier was angry at Lebron during the 2014 ESPY's because he has black panther roots and felt Lebron betrayed him by teaming up with the racist Dan Gilbert.

[ambchang]

Transformational means having a different aura when walking in a room. :lol today’s nba analyst.

Shame :wow yesterday’s scrubs are going all touchy feely to blend into :lol today’s nba.

[ambchang]

White American players went from 40% of the total players in the league to less than 5% in just 30 years or so..

I have serious admiration for any White American with a significant role in the league today, they've overcome the odds..I'm a big fan of guys like Redick, Korver, etc..

The only successful role for a White American in the NBA today is as a specialist, yet I'm supposed to believe that Larry Bird would be a superstar? Stop:lol even if I would suspend disbelief and give the benefit of the doubt, the best he could be is the best player on a bad team like Love or somebody like Houston's Chandler Parsons..

I'm also not factoring the likelihood that Black players in the league were forced to go easy on him, as well..Isiah Thomas and Rodman hinted at it, but couldn't elaborate further, knowing they would be blackballed from the league.

Players from the virgin islands went from winning 2 MVPs in the 00s to not being in the league in the 10s. Therefore Duncan would have totally sucked in :lol today’s nba.

[ambchang]

As for bird vs magic. Bird had the higher peak by far but magicnjust lasted longer and had a better team.

I believe bird to be the superior player over all even though I’m a magic fan, but because he played in the east, his teams were either eliminated or just beaten up by the time they get to the finals.

[Ginobilly]

Down below I have listed a few conspiracy theories you have created in the past. Which one is your favorite?
1. Stern threatened the livelihoods of black players in the league during the 80's and forced them to allow Larry Bird to be great.
2. Michael Jordan was behind the death of his father.
3. Shabazz Napier was angry at Lebron during the 2014 ESPY's because he has black panther roots and felt Lebron betrayed him by teaming up with the racist Dan Gilbert.


Its just bitter players blaming their sucking on theories because their getting beat by some "unatlhetic" white guy. Another basketball theory that makes me laugh: court was lowered for spud webb in the dunk contest he won.:lol
Players implying he couldn't dunk on a 10ft basket, yet he dunked multiple times in game throughout his career and practice.

Incel overweight fanboi's at home questioning certain athletes athleticism. There's a reason these guys are in the nba and not at home jacking off like you'll. I've seen jj barea jump outta the gym during warmups catching alleyopps. Tp9 too.

Bird might have not been in lebrons level of athletic ability, but the guy was deceptively quick, could dunk, elite coordination, quick hands, etc. The guy wasn't a stiff like some people here make him out to be.

[Bynumite]

White American players went from 40% of the total players in the league to less than 5% in just 30 years or so..

I have serious admiration for any White American with a significant role in the league today, they've overcome the odds..I'm a big fan of guys like Redick, Korver, etc..

The only successful role for a White American in the NBA today is as a specialist, yet I'm supposed to believe that Larry Bird would be a superstar? Stop:lol even if I would suspend disbelief and give the benefit of the doubt, the best he could be is the best player on a bad team like Love or somebody like Houston's Chandler Parsons..

I'm also not factoring the likelihood that Black players in the league were forced to go easy on him, as well..Isiah Thomas and Rodman hinted at it, but couldn't elaborate further, knowing they would be blackballed from the league.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how much does it hurt you that a cracker hillbilly is widely viewed as a top 5 player of all time in a sport dominated by blacks? :lol

[Kyle_Kuzma]

too young to judge larry but if a cornbread like klay thompson could dominate in this era, id say bird would easily be a top 5 player in the game.

[140]

https://youtu.be/baBdnA7cui0

I'll wait for Korvers and Reddicks similar videos when they retire since they're all basically the same player :lol

[DMC]

Magic was clearly better than Bird but both were better than Kobe

[DMC]

https://youtu.be/baBdnA7cui0

I'll wait for Korvers and Reddicks similar videos when they retire since they're all basically the same player :lol

You just lost your posting privileges until 2019 for that take.

[Spurtacular]

This was Jim Jackson's problem as a player. He could've been a legit player if he had shut his mouth...

[Spurtacular]

You just lost your posting privileges until 2019 for that take.

For why?

[DMC]

For why?

Putting JJ and Kyle in the same sentence as Bird just because they are all white.

[Spurtacular]

Putting JJ and Kyle in the same sentence as Bird just because they are all white.

He was making the case that they didn't belong in the same sentence with Bird.

[Corporal_Upham]

Putting JJ and Kyle in the same sentence as Bird just because they are all white.
Wow, you’re a dumb fuck. :lol

[DMC]

He was making the case that they didn't belong in the same sentence with Bird.

Didn't see anyone else compare them.

[DMC]

Wow, you’re a dumb fuck. :lol

And you created an alt just for me. :lol

[Slob]

And you created an alt just for me. :lol

Nuh uh. Mono claims all his alts. Duh.

[Corporal_Upham]

Nuh uh. Mono claims all his alts. Duh.
:lol

[DMC]

Nuh uh. Mono claims all his alts. Duh.

Highly doubt Mono created an alt to follow me around.

[DAF86]

Didn't see anyone else compare them.

Doubling down on dumbassery :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

https://youtu.be/baBdnA7cui0

I'll wait for Korvers and Reddicks similar videos when they retire since they're all basically the same player :lol

I didn't say they were the same player:lol

I said that's the only way for a White American player to succeed today, they need to be a specialist..facts, it isn't even debatable..

It's not like there's a shortage of White pro athletes, they're more athletic than ever..they're dominating the Tight End position, many great linebackers/pass rushers, there are elite athletes in baseball, etc..it just doesn't translate to basketball, the combination of athleticism/height/length/skill isn't there..

Believing that Larry Bird's dominance was legit is pretty silly, it's like believing Jesus's miracles:lol

[TD 21]

Dude, I couldn't give less of a fuck about Bird. I'm also well outside the black/white war. I just call it like I see it. If some no name red neck fuck would say anything like that about a black icon, he would get called a racist and be bullied out of his job.

I understand the history, but at some point you gotta get past that.

If the "reward" for being treated anywhere from second class citizens to vermin throughout history, is that "blacks" get to supposedly be more liberal with thinly veiled, racially charged comments, why would that be an issue?


You couldn't sound more ignorant.

[DAF86]

If the "reward" for being treated anywhere from second class citizens to vermin throughout history, is that "blacks" get to supposedly be more liberal with thinly veiled, racially charged comments, why would that be an issue?


You couldn't sound more ignorant.




You are the one justifying racism in the verge of the year 2019 and I'm the ingorant one? :lol

Let it go son. Remember it, always have it in mind, learn from it, but don't let the anger consume you. These are different times, people is more open minded, caring and loving. Spread love, not hate and bitterness.

[Spurtacular]

I didn't say they were the same player:lol

I said that's the only way for a White American player to succeed today, they need to be a specialist..facts, it isn't even debatable..

It's not like there's a shortage of White pro athletes, they're more athletic than ever..they're dominating the Tight End position, many great linebackers/pass rushers, there are elite athletes in baseball, etc..it just doesn't translate to basketball, the combination of athleticism/height/length/skill isn't there..

Believing that Larry Bird's dominance was legit is pretty silly, it's like believing Jesus's miracles:lol

Racists love to pigeon hole whitey. Dude, Bird owned everyone's ass in his era; no exceptions.

[FrostKing]

If the "reward" for being treated anywhere from second class citizens to vermin throughout history, is that "blacks" get to supposedly be more liberal with thinly veiled, racially charged comments, why would that be an issue?


You couldn't sound more ignorant.



America is the land of immigrants (many have no connection to those times). As an immigrant, I don't want to hear their whining and from my experience neither does the growing hispanic population. Just makes me want to avoid them and this victimhood

[HarlemHeat37]

America is the land of immigrants (many have no connection to those times). As an immigrant, I don't want to hear their whining and from my experience neither does the growing hispanic population. Just makes me want to avoid them and this victimhood

How will we live without you in our lives?:(

[TD 21]

You are the one justifying racism in the verge of the year 2019 and I'm the ingorant one? :lol

Let it go son. Remember it, always have it in mind, learn from it, but don't let the anger consume you. These are different times, people is more open minded, caring and loving. Spread love, not hate and bitterness.

Not surprisingly, you missed the point, which was, if that's what came from substandard treatment (which still exists to this day), it's not worth complaining about.

Easy for you to say. It's not consuming me, I just don't suffer fools. When I see ignorant comments, I can't help but check the person.

[DMC]

He was making the case that they didn't belong in the same sentence with Bird.


Wow, you’re a dumb fuck. :lol


Nuh uh. Mono claims all his alts. Duh.


:lol


I didn't say they were the same player:lol

I said that's the only way for a White American player to succeed today, they need to be a specialist..facts, it isn't even debatable..

It's not like there's a shortage of White pro athletes, they're more athletic than ever..they're dominating the Tight End position, many great linebackers/pass rushers, there are elite athletes in baseball, etc..it just doesn't translate to basketball, the combination of athleticism/height/length/skill isn't there..

Believing that Larry Bird's dominance was legit is pretty silly, it's like believing Jesus's miracles:lol


:lol

Told you.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

looking at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr7UV1tiZFc

no one is really putting up much of an effort to contest his shots besides some half assed arm raising... i dont think he could get his shot off in the modern nba tbh lol, off of one you tube video that showed about 12 shots.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

At scoring/shooting, sure.
But no he was not.So you admit that Bird was better because bird was just as good as magic at everything else.

[lefty]

I like Magic and his fasbreaks were amazing, but Bird was better

[Arcadian]

Regarding the thread title, that's a meaningless statement unless we have an operational definition of "transformational player."

Regarding Bird vs Magic, I vote Bird mainly because he was a better scorer.

[Killakobe81]

Regarding the thread title, that's a meaningless statement unless we have an operational definition of "transformational player."

Regarding Bird vs Magic, I vote Bird mainly because he was a better scorer.

HE was the better scorer but obviously longevity of prime matters. I agree with Amb Bird had the better peak but Magic had the greater career and greater impact. Again not even worth a debate people already have done it plenty you are where you are on the debate it won't change

[YoungSuperTeam]

looking at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr7UV1tiZFc

no one is really putting up much of an effort to contest his shots besides some half assed arm raising... i dont think he could get his shot off in the modern nba tbh

You're absolutely crazy. Not to mention uninformed in the history of the game.

It's easier to get shots off today than it's probably ever been (can't speak to pre-1970's). Freedom of movement, no handchecking, no Jordan rules, relaxed rules on dribbling/carrying etc.

If Larry Bird could accomplish what he accomplished during an era where you could push, pull, grab, hit, and sometime tackle a player -- I think he'd be alright in today's game where you can't blink at a player w/o drawing a foul.

It'd be far easier for a super star player transported from 1987 to excel today than it would be for a super star player to be transported back to the 80's and 90's and do the same. I'm not saying impossible, but less likely.

Kobe Bryant, for example, would still be a star player back in 1987. So would LeBron. And Tim Duncan. But Steph Curry would have an awful hard time acclimating to the physicality. Think if 'Jordan Rules' were applied to him. Not to mention how dribbling rules have changed with palming and euro steps that couldn't be executed the same.

Michael Jordan averaged 37 points a game in '86-'87. If he could do that then, what could he do today when they couldn't touch him? Just think about it.

Larry Bird would be one of the best players playing today. Probably even better than many think because, if adapting to the new style of shooting volume threes, he'd destroy.