How do you compete in the era of superteams?

[HWoodNixon]

There are talks about Kawhi and LD teaming up on the Clippers. There are
also talks about AD teaming up with LBJ on the Lakers. Given what happened with the Heatles, GSW, etc., it’s safe to say we are in a new era of superteams, where superstar players team up to win titles. This is the new normal now, whether people like it or not.

With that said, how is a small market team like the spurs (who tend to strike out on free agents) able to compete? This is the main reason why I advocate for tanking with the group we have right now (with two all star players and some complimentary role players. Lottery picks are excellent tradeable assets of the players themselves do not fit your needs. It’s the best way to stockpile talent so you can be competitive against these superteams.

[RC_Drunkford]

you must be new here


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3y7cWmoBCI

[baseline bum]

You usually lose to the superteams. Like every other era this league has ever had.

[Mirrornick]

Spurs were a super team a while ago. Lakers Kobe shaq. 80s lakers and Celtics. 90s bulls.. history repeating itself. Only difference really is guys teaming up together.

[TimmyBuckets]

We can't compete. Plain and simple. Before, with even 1 or 2 superstars (nephew and softridge), Spurs could've competed with tenacious D and great coaching, but with Pop most likely on his way out, a weak non-defensive roster, and the juggernaut team-ups that are/will be taking place, Spurs are overmatched.

[Chucho]

Pull a Tonya Harding and knee cap a few of the stars on one team. Even then, I'm unsure if that's necessary with today's soft players. Maybe push them down and kick sand in their faces?

[cd98]

The problem is that players want to team up in big markets. Once great players have developed on the team that drafted them and gotten enough money to be comfortable, they want to leave and go play in a big market to make marking dollars and to live in the city with the amenities they want. It will be hard to come up with an incentive for them to stay because clearly the supermax backfired and players show they don't care about it.

[Othyus Lalanne]

We can't compete. Plain and simple. Before, with even 1 or 2 superstars (nephew and softridge), Spurs could've competed with tenacious D and great coaching, but with Pop most likely on his way out, a weak non-defensive roster, and the juggernaut team-ups that are/will be taking place, Spurs are overmatched.

Wait and see whow those egos handle it before saying it's over.

Shit, Durant gained...

https://i.imgflip.com/2pd151.jpg

[Dverde]

Pau Gasol.

[TimDunkem]

Pau Gasol.

Don't forget Patty Mills. He's the leader, ya' know!

[drpill]

I wouldn't really call the Raptors a super team, and they seem to be competitive, even without you-know-who. You need a lot of talented and well-coached players, for sure, and probably one true star player at minimum to be realistic. I think it's conceivable that the Spurs could be in that category with a few more intelligent roster moves, some better luck with injuries and player development, etc. Over-committing to nearly washed up players is not conducive to creating a team like this, but on the other hand it might be the price a less attractive market has to pay to bring in quality talent.

[Mr. Body]

You have a superior coach. The Spurs would have knocked off the Warriors had we been healthy. Then Kawhi went and fucked everything up.

[JeffDuncan]

How to compete.....

1) Have a center who is primarily a good rebounder, to get as many as possible of those long, high arcing, three-point misses. Ditto good rebounding from other positions (like Dejounte Murray.) Good rebounders are more common than superstars, and not as expensive - and even from a superstar like Curry, the average 3pt attempt is going to miss. (The ONLY player in the NBA who is currently shooting better than 50% from the 3 is, ahem, Dante Cunningham.)

2) Have good perimeter defenders. Again, such players are more common than superstars, and less expensive.

3) Have 3pt shooting of our own. There are currently 36 players in the NBA who are shooting 40% or higher on 3s, and 100 players at 36%+. Obviously, they are not all superstars.

Rebounding, perimeter defense, and respectable 3pt shooting will give a good start for a team that can compete with anybody. Then, certainly develop as much as possible from there. Stars may be required, but superstars are not.

[R. DeMurre]

Denver, Toronto, Milwaukee, Indiana, and OKC are competing. Other than Durant joining the Warriors, it's not that much different from other eras.

[vander]

get some injuries and then win the draft lottery when there's a can't-miss prospect

[SAGirl]

Luck, injuries to the other team best players, unlikely role-players peaking in the middle of a series, fluke 3 pt shooting (whether falling for you or not falling for the other team), a Horry hip check, get lucky in the draft, perhaps get lucky in some deal like the old Hill/Kiwi trade, get lucky yet another generational type talent falls to you....

Basically a good amount of luck in every scenario.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Tanking is NOT the answer. The ultimate tank team is Philadelphia, and they're already changing up their roster to try to be competitive with the top teams in the East, much less win a title. The Spurs won the lottery, literally, when we got David, and won the mega-lottery with Tim. Hitting the trifecta from getting a franchise anchor from a draft pick might be a lot to ask for.


The only way for a small market team like San Antonio to do it is get lucky with a superstar player who embraces the city and get lucky again surrounding him with previously underrated superstar talent that is humble and unselfish and willing to sacrifice pay and glory for the good of the team. You surround that core with unselfish role players, veteran and rookies, who understand their roles and are, again, willing to do what is right for the team over their own individual agendas. Then you need a hard-nosed coach, who somehow, despite his gruff exterior, can exude the best from his players by establishing a trust with the superstar player first, and then carry that relationship down throughout the organization.


Tanking, gutting the roster and filling it up with draft picks hoping to stumble upon a championship formula is fools gold were we to pursue it.


The Spurs are the only small market team in the NBA to do what they've done in terms of success. I don't know that we'll get to see it repeated. I hope so.....

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This Spurs team is actually fun to watch when they try and compete. When they take a night off (or a second half) it's pretty horrible. Jekyll and Hyde kind of stuff. Scary.

[weebo]

Defense, good defensive rebounding, efficient offense, energy/tenacity, 1-2 guys that can carry the offensive load when the offense stalls, good coaching...

[HWoodNixon]

Tanking is NOT the answer. The ultimate tank team is Philadelphia, and they're already changing up their roster to try to be competitive with the top teams in the East, much less win a title. The Spurs won the lottery, literally, when we got David, and won the mega-lottery with Tim. Hitting the trifecta from getting a franchise anchor from a draft pick might be a lot to ask for.


The only way for a small market team like San Antonio to do it is get lucky with a superstar player who embraces the city and get lucky again surrounding him with previously underrated superstar talent that is humble and unselfish and willing to sacrifice pay and glory for the good of the team. You surround that core with unselfish role players, veteran and rookies, who understand their roles and are, again, willing to do what is right for the team over their own individual agendas. Then you need a hard-nosed coach, who somehow, despite his gruff exterior, can exude the best from his players by establishing a trust with the superstar player first, and then carry that relationship down throughout the organization.


Tanking, gutting the roster and filling it up with draft picks hoping to stumble upon a championship formula is fools gold were we to pursue it.


The Spurs are the only small market team in the NBA to do what they've done in terms of success. I don't know that we'll get to see it repeated. I hope so.....

not saying to gut this roster. I’m saying tank THIS season and have a lotto pick with the semi decent talent we do have.

[E20]

accroding to most larry bird could single handly dominate this league which is fucking laughable. so there's your answer larry bird, an unathletic, slow (by today's standards), highly "skilled" player

[SAGirl]

accroding to most larry bird could single handly dominate this league which is fucking laughable. so there's your answer larry bird, an unathletic, slow (by today's standards), highly "skilled" player
He could rebound pretty well in an era that had a lot of bigs that played close to the basket, was an incredible shooter and passer. Offensively he was amazing back then and in this era that favors shooting and protects offensive players he would absolutely dominate. I am thinking like a 6'10 Curry.

[paperboy77]

Really it's about a single super-team. What other super-team is unbeatable outside the Warriors? Even historically?

[paperboy77]

How to compete.....

1) Have a center who is primarily a good rebounder, to get as many as possible of those long, high arcing, three-point misses. Ditto good rebounding from other positions (like Dejounte Murray.) Good rebounders are more common than superstars, and not as expensive - and even from a superstar like Curry, the average 3pt attempt is going to miss. (The ONLY player in the NBA who is currently shooting better than 50% from the 3 is, ahem, Dante Cunningham.)

2) Have good perimeter defenders. Again, such players are more common than superstars, and less expensive.

3) Have 3pt shooting of our own. There are currently 36 players in the NBA who are shooting 40% or higher on 3s, and 100 players at 36%+. Obviously, they are not all superstars.

Rebounding, perimeter defense, and respectable 3pt shooting will give a good start for a team that can compete with anybody. Then, certainly develop as much as possible from there. Stars may be required, but superstars are not.

Totally agree. Even the 04' star less Pistons put it to that super-team Lakers, Spurs beat the Heattles as did the Mavs. Lakers beat the trio of KG, Pierce and Allen. There is hardly ever an unbeatable team, much less several in one season. Hell even the Cavs beat your standard super-team.

THis Warriorss team with KD are just bullet proof. Even when we were up in the WCF... there is still a good chance we lose the series right? Forget it that's an old wound.

Still, there are no super teams except the Dubs.

[YGWHI]

you must be new here


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3y7cWmoBCI

In last 20 years, Mavs '11 and Spurs '14 were the only teams that won a title vs a team with 3 or more All-Stars.

I guess superteams>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rest NBA teams.

[HWoodNixon]

In last 20 years, Mavs '11 and Spurs '14 were the only teams that won a title vs a team with 3 or more All-Stars.

I guess superteams>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rest NBA teams.

And those Heat teams still ended up winning titles anyway or at least made the finals.

[cjw]

Tanking is NOT the answer. The ultimate tank team is Philadelphia, and they're already changing up their roster to try to be competitive with the top teams in the East, much less win a title. The Spurs won the lottery, literally, when we got David, and won the mega-lottery with Tim. Hitting the trifecta from getting a franchise anchor from a draft pick might be a lot to ask for.

Or the Cavs could have created it by letting Lebron vacation a couple of years in Miami, and then add Oladipo (or Giannis but he was nowhere near the same prospect) and Embiid instead of botching the Bennett pick and bailing and grabbing Love.

Or better yet could have grabbed Kawhi with the fifth pick after Kylie instead of Tristan. Would have never been bad enough to net the 2014 top pick, but maybe 2013.

It takes a perfect storm to create a superteam. And if you tank, you have to get lucky.

[JPB]

Pull a Tonya Harding and knee cap a few of the stars on one team. Even then, I'm unsure if that's necessary with today's soft players. Maybe push them down and kick sand in their faces?

It's called "pull a Zaza" in Basketball, son.

[JPB]

Luck, injuries to the other team best players, unlikely role-players peaking in the middle of a series, fluke 3 pt shooting (whether falling for you or not falling for the other team), a Horry hip check, get lucky in the draft, perhaps get lucky in some deal like the old Hill/Kiwi trade, get lucky yet another generational type talent falls to you....

Basically a good amount of luck in every scenario.

If not for Curry's bad ankles...

[Chucho]

It's called "pull a Zaza" in Basketball, son.


Sticking your fat foot where someone is going to land is different than knee-capping someone with a club. And before it was "pull a Zaza", it was "pull a Bowen", son.

[gospursgojas]

Who’s LD? Lloyd Daniels making a come back?

[Chinook]

Best path to competing next year is to shed as much salary as possible around DeRozan, LMA and Murray while tanking. Then they can "hopefully" sign a dude to a near-max contract, re-sign Gay and draft the RoY.

Hypothetically:

Murray, White, Vet PG (Bayless?)
DeRozan, Walker, Young Guard (Vick at 40-45?)
Thompson, Bertans, Vet Forward (Wes Johnson?)
Hachimura, Gay, Metu
Aldridge, Poeltl, Vet Center (Koufos, Boban?)

I don't know that I think Rui is actually a fit or that he'd be the RoY. Certainly others may arguably be more suited than Middleton, and $30 Million-plus APY is a lot to spend on any role-player. Still, the point is that adding two huge talents to the core of Murray, DeRozan, Gay and Aldridge and hoping Poeltl, White and Walker are all legit role-players is likely the best path to becoming a "super team".

Here's the Capulator link to what the final roster would look like:

http://www.shamsports.com/capulator?id=17625005615c1b2847f29d0353121939

(Ignore how I got there, because I didn't want to spend a bunch of time making trades that work. With how Mills has played, I do think they could move those contracts only having to give up a net of Milutinov and the Raptors pick. Maybe they'd need to also trade their second or future picks, but that doesn't ruin the cap math at all.)

[JPB]

Sticking your fat foot where someone is going to land is different than knee-capping someone with a club. And before it was "pull a Zaza", it was "pull a Bowen", son.

Chill out, it was a joke. All good, son

[JPB]

More seriously (kind of) and not that I would ever rout for it but what also makes tanking irreleant nowadays is that players accoutability... hum hum.... and attachment to a team don't really exist anymore and that players have taken over...

When you were tanking 20 years ago for a Barkley, a Malone, a Wilkins or a Sam Perkins... I mean a Jordan, you knew you were given up one year of competing for a player you would certainly keep in your organisation for 12 or 15 years of his best years (before he eventually left at then end of his carer)...

Now, you're not certain of anything. Your star... hum hum... can explode in your hands any moment and fuck up all your plans and what you build around him if you don't bend over and suck his whole group's dicks.

NO is losing Davis next year 100% and they already lost CP40M, Indy lost PG13, OKC lost Harden then Durant, Utah lost Hayward, Minny traded Love and Garnett...

How many titles for all these teams ? How many Finals ?

You got as many chances statistically not tanking than tanking, excpet you don't get to suck and as a fan to rout for your players to miss game winners.

[Chucho]

Chill out, it was a joke. All good, son

Likewise, son.

[Play Boban]

:cry

[tbdog]

Warriors are a different type of superteam. They were already incredibly good. To get Durant like that without losing really anything was just way to much for any other team to compete with. Durant is leaving next year. Iggy career is ending before everyone's eyes. Klay and Green are testing the market. Their run may be over as early as next season. Lakers will probably offer the sun for Anthony Davis this off season.

[skin27]

In last 20 years, Mavs '11 and Spurs '14 were the only teams that won a title vs a team with 3 or more All-Stars.

I guess superteams>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rest NBA teams.


04 pistons

[YGWHI]

04 pistons

Pistons won the title vs Lakers in 2004. In that year the Lakers had two players in the ASG, Kobe and Shaq.

My post was about "a team that beats other with 3 or more All-Stars"

Mavs did it in 2011 with LeBron Wade and Bosh making the ASG in the same year. The Spurs, too. Since LBJ Wade Bosh made the All Star roster in 2014.

[skin27]

Pistons won the title vs Lakers in 2004. In that year the Lakers had two players in the ASG, Kobe and Shaq.

My post was about "a team that beats other with 3 or more All-Stars"

Mavs did it in 2011 with LeBron Wade and Bosh making the ASG in the same year. The Spurs, too. Since LBJ Wade Bosh made the All Star roster in 2014.


how about 16 Cavs?

[YGWHI]

And those Heat teams still ended up winning titles anyway or at least made the finals.
Exactly. It's about NBA history.

If we look at the history, superteams with at least 3 All-Stars -even before the original Lakers Showtime in the 80's- have won many titles.

[YGWHI]

how about 16 Cavs?

:tu

[RC_Drunkford]

In last 20 years, Mavs '11 and Spurs '14 were the only teams that won a title vs a team with 3 or more All-Stars.

I guess superteams>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>rest NBA teams.

that's my point, Spurs have a long history of beating so called super teams, even though none of them were as stacked as the Warriors. You counter super teams by having a deep roster and playing team basketball. Nash, Kobe, Artest, Pau, Dwight Howard were called a super team and we swept them. Even this years Warriors don't have a good bench. The long term strategy should be keeping LA/DeRozan/Gay around while stacking up young talent with upside (as we do now with Poeltl, Murray, White, Walker) and gambling on them developing while our 3 best players remain productive. That's the only way to do it. Get in the playoffs every year and hope the super team has bad injury luck, you never know. Spurs approach is the right one

[HWoodNixon]

that's my point, Spurs have a long history of beating so called super teams, even though none of them were as stacked as the Warriors. You counter super teams by having a deep roster and playing team basketball. Nash, Kobe, Artest, Pau, Dwight Howard were called a super team and we swept them. Even this years Warriors don't have a good bench. The long term strategy should be keeping LA/DeRozan/Gay around while stacking up young talent with upside (as we do now with Poeltl, Murray, White, Walker) and gambling on them developing while our 3 best players remain productive. That's the only way to do it. Get in the playoffs every year and hope the super team has bad injury luck, you never know. Spurs approach is the right one

How would you say they have a history of beating superteams? In the Duncan era, they lost in the playoffs to the 04 Malone Payton Lakers, the Gasol/Kobe 08 lakers, and the 12-13 heat. Aside from beating Miami in 2014 (after that team was winded), they’ve lost to the KD warriors twice. That’s basically a 1-5 record. I’m not counting when they swept la that year since Kobe was injured

[RC_Drunkford]

How would you say they have a history of beating superteams? In the Duncan era, they lost in the playoffs to the 04 Malone Payton Lakers, the Gasol/Kobe 08 lakers, and the 12-13 heat. Aside from beating Miami in 2014 (after that team was winded), they’ve lost to the KD warriors twice. That’s basically a 1-5 record. I’m not counting when they swept la that year since Kobe was injured

well why are you counting the Spurs - Warriors series then since Kawhi was injured?

[HWoodNixon]

well why are you counting the Spurs - Warriors series then since Kawhi was injured?

So exluding the Lakers win and two warrior losses due to injuries, that’s 1-3 against superteams. Still not impressive.