Border Security

[CosmicCowboy]

I think that we can all agree that regulated legal immigration is a good thing and unregulated illegal immigration is a bad thing.

What do you suggest as a reasonable compromise to promote legal immigration and curb illegal immigration that both political parties could agree on?

Lets see some ideas.

[SpursforSix]

I think that we can all agree that regulated legal immigration is a good thing and unregulated illegal immigration is a bad thing.

What do you suggest as a reasonable compromise to promote legal immigration and curb illegal immigration that both political parties could agree on?

Lets see some ideas.

Give everyone coming over a comprehensive health exam. And also a lie detector test to find out what their intentions are.
Then put chips in them and monitor them for 2 years.

Will that work?

[Winehole23]

Hire more immigration judges and kill the backlog of cases.

[mrsmaalox]

Make it illegal to hire undocumented immigrants. Oh wait it’s already illegal. Then how about just enforcing it?

[ducks]

The ones here now make them legal in 25 years or get out come back in
Fine them 2k a year all money for wall
Stop making kids USA citizens just because mom is in US
Must be legal citizen

[ducks]

Make it illegal to hire undocumented immigraifnts. Oh wait it’s already illegal. Then how about just enforcing it?
They would just get food stamps from gov if not working



Coming here is illegal already if not doing it the right way
Just enforce it

[ducks]

People that are not legal USA citizens do not have the same rights as people in the USA

[Winehole23]

anyone born in the US (except for the children of diplomats) is a US citizen, period. that's the law.

the US Congress knew what they were doing when they passed the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act of 1866. it's easily checkable.

[CosmicCowboy]

Make it illegal to hire undocumented immigrants. Oh wait it’s already illegal. Then how about just enforcing it?

I agree with this. Every employer should be required to use everify and the current laws against hiring should be rigidly enforced. Using everify also snags child support dodgers as an additional benefit.

[clambake]

well.....not the ones that work for trump of course.

[ElNono]

I’m not a fan of illegal immigration myself, but I’d like to understand what specific problems we’re trying to address?

I can only think of crime-related, bad elements coming in, mostly national security.

[boutons_deux]

what specific problems we’re trying to address?


"we"? not we

but Trash is inflaming, suckering his white nationalist/nativist base, with racist Nazi Stephen Miller and his accomplices.

[CosmicCowboy]

I’m not a fan of illegal immigration myself, but I’d like to understand what specific problems we’re trying to address?

I can only think of crime-related, bad elements coming in, mostly national security.

I think most of us in here (besides Boutons) realize how lucky we were to be born in the US. We also get that it must suck to be born in a shithole country with a crappy government and no economic upward mobility. At the same time we simply have no need for uneducated, marginally employable economic immigrants that can't speak the language and can't assimilate into becoming productive citizens in our advanced economy.

[Will Hunting]

Make it illegal to hire undocumented immigrants. Oh wait it’s already illegal. Then how about just enforcing it?
Conservative asscheeks clench up when you start talking about stiffer penalties for employers who hire illegals. They (rightfully so) hate illegal immigration but don’t want to entertain the common sense deterrent of making less jobs available to illegals.

[SpursforSix]

The ones here now make them legal in 25 years or get out come back in
Fine them 2k a year all money for wall
Stop making kids USA citizens just because mom is in US
Must be legal citizen

all this so you can pee pee on them?

[SpursforSix]

I’m not a fan of illegal immigration myself, but I’d like to understand what specific problems we’re trying to address?

I can only think of crime-related, bad elements coming in, mostly national security.

I think a long term issue is jobs. BigRobot will continue to replace HumanAmericans in the work force. What are all these new people going to do?

[baseline bum]

Make it illegal to hire undocumented immigrants. Oh wait it’s already illegal. Then how about just enforcing it?

Jail time for hiring illegals is the only way it would work. Which is why it's not done. Conservatives in power love demonizing illegals but don't want to really stop them from working here for fear of what it could do to raise wages.

[baseline bum]

Conservative asscheeks clench up when you start talking about stiffer penalties for employers who hire illegals. They (rightfully so) hate illegal immigration but don’t want to entertain the common sense deterrent of making less jobs available to illegals.

No, they hate illegals but nothing conservatives have done in power makes me think they don't like illegal immigration.

[Winehole23]

. At the same time we simply have no need for uneducated, marginally employable economic immigrants that can't speak the language and can't assimilate into becoming productive citizens in our advanced economy.The majority of illegal immigrants for the last five years or so overstay valid visas, are college degreed and English speaking.

The present and future of immigration to the US is from Asia.

You and the most of the posters are fixed on the wave of the past. Central American immigration will never completely go away, but to push it forward as typical of the aggregate is misleading at best, ignorant at worst.

[boutons_deux]

Americans aren't going to work as abused, poisoned, underpaid/unpaid ag / farm hands

[Winehole23]

Conservative asscheeks clench up when you start talking about stiffer penalties for employers who hire illegals. They (rightfully so) hate illegal immigration but don’t want to entertain the common sense deterrent of making less jobs available to illegals.If we're talking about Central American migrants, here's gotta be a clearer legal pathway to work. Agriculture, construction and hospitality need the workers and boutons isn't wrong that that some of these jobs (agriculture) Americans simply won't do.

An aging workforce, a below replacement birth rate and full employment might mean that we need much more immigration, not much less.

[ElNono]

I think most of us in here (besides Boutons) realize how lucky we were to be born in the US. We also get that it must suck to be born in a shithole country with a crappy government and no economic upward mobility. At the same time we simply have no need for uneducated, marginally employable economic immigrants that can't speak the language and can't assimilate into becoming productive citizens in our advanced economy.

Well I’m personally not on the lucky boat of being born in the US, so I can’t relate to that.

I don’t particularly see a jobs problem either, we’ve been shifting manufacturing overseas for a long time. Standard of living, law and order and justice system, I think, are a bigger enticement, but again, those are factors for outsiders to come in, not something that causes problems for people living here already.

If our economy needs largely uneducated daily laborers, I also don’t see a problem with that, supply and demand. I do draw the line at people that are unwilling to follow the law.

[Blake]

But then who will wash the bed sheets at Mar Del Lago

[ElNono]

Anyways, I think the thread title goes into the heart of why you would want an ordered immigration process: security. The entire immigration debate is much bigger than that though.

[Blake]

I think that we can all agree that regulated legal immigration is a good thing and unregulated illegal immigration is a bad thing.

What do you suggest as a reasonable compromise to promote legal immigration and curb illegal immigration that both political parties could agree on?

Lets see some ideas.

How about we form an agency that patrols the border looking for illegal immigrants

[MultiTroll]

At the same time we simply have no need for uneducated, marginally employable economic immigrants that can't speak the language and can't assimilate into becoming productive citizens in our advanced economy.
But what if they're a super hot looking chick with a good personality?

[CosmicCowboy]

But what if they're a super hot looking chick with a good personality?

here ya go...

https://www.russiancupid.com/?&ef_id=EAIaIQobChMItMmznr6x3wIVkYbACh3HEQJ3EAAYASAA EgKJ7PD_BwE:G:s&ovchn=GGL&ovcpn=English+USA&ovcrn=russian%20brides&ovtac=PPC&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItMmznr6x3wIVkYbACh3HEQJ3EAAYASAA EgKJ7PD_BwE

[Spurs Homer]

The most effective and relatively easy way - has been mentioned already - enforcing the law and fining and prosecuting the people who hire them.
When the word gets out that there are absolutely no jobs here - no future here - they will stop coming in the same numbers.

We won't do that because the people hiring them also are the same donors who support politicians and will stop paying them off.

Or


Put them to work on our infrastructure. Make america spit-shiny clean. Put them on birth control. Take half their pay and place it in accounts in their own country - but make it so they cannot withdraw for 10 years. Give them a 10 year contract with decent wages, free healthcare and half their pay here and the other half when they return to their country. After 10 years they must return for 5 years and await their USA citizenship to be granted. Those five years in their country with their 10 year salary suddenly available will cause most to open businesses, better their country and hopefully not want to return here.
Those who break laws, have kids while on their 10 year contract get deported/disqualified.

We get a brand new spit shiny country, brand new infrastructure, better economy, less crime, etc...

Only problem?

They are mostly brown people - this would only work if they were from Sweden and looked like Barbie and Ken!

[boutons_deux]

immigrants are ALREADY the backbone of US agricultural, and of construction

[Winehole23]

are you serious, Spurs Homer?

[MultiTroll]

I think that we can all agree that regulated legal immigration is a good thing and unregulated illegal immigration is a bad thing.

What do you suggest as a reasonable compromise to promote legal immigration and curb illegal immigration that both political parties could agree on?

Lets see some ideas.
A noble thought and I agree with you 100%.

That having been said, there is the saying "You cannot legislate righteousness* into peoples hearts."
* or fairness, justice, goodness etc.

So, regardless of what laws are passed, still gonna be bugs.
I do agree that enforcing the current laws and adding some good ones will help.

But since most of these political sleazebags have profit from illegals in their sweatshops, farms and drugs etc crossing the border with their payoff, aint nothing going to change.

[Winehole23]

Indentured servitude?

[MultiTroll]

here ya go...

https://www.russiancupid.com/?&ef_id=EAIaIQobChMItMmznr6x3wIVkYbACh3HEQJ3EAAYASAA EgKJ7PD_BwE:G:s&ovchn=GGL&ovcpn=English+USA&ovcrn=russian%20brides&ovtac=PPC&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItMmznr6x3wIVkYbACh3HEQJ3EAAYASAA EgKJ7PD_BwE
:lol
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/09/american-greed-the-bar-girls-scam.html#slide=1

[Spurs Homer]

are you serious, Spurs Homer?

On the first one - absolutely. It shows the hypocrisy.
Cry and cry about "illegal" immigrants ruining the country, dirtying the country, bringing disease, etc...(same as was said about all previous immigrants)
and then what?

The people HIRING them never get the spotlight put on them.

These people come here for one reason, a better life. Jobs. A chance to work to feed their families.
Ever seen mexican homeless beggars? How many?
Look again.

The culture is such that at 4-5-6 years old these children are out WORKING, SELLING, CLEANING, HUSTLING.

They don't come here to BEG.

Start simply enforcing the laws and prosecute those who hire them.
As soon as the word got out that jobs were gone, that businesses were scared of hiring ANY illegal - the flow would stop and they would go elsewhere and look for work elsewhere.

Except, you really do NOT want to stop immigration do you?

Much better to just demonize minorities and blame them so that dear leader succeeds. Much better to have a boogey man to blame for white peoples laziness and lack of a heart to make america better by working together with everyone and lifting our country to better days.


The second one is a pipe dream but I would love to see politicians talking about putting them to work - because instead of seeing these people as some CURSE to our country - we might be better off seeing them as a possible blessing and putting those eager hard workers to work to earn their place here. Imagine having the biggest work-force on the planet - Imagine spending billions investing in infrastructure with cheap labor - and giving these people an incentive to return home to get their money they earned?

If they were Swedish illegals flooding our ports? My god you would see racists opening their hearts, their homes - heck the red carpet would be laid out from sea to shining sea.

[Winehole23]

Much better to just demonize minorities and blame them so that dear leader succeeds.You're right, indentured servitude is so much better than a rational legal pathway to work for immigrants and eligibility verification by employers. I don't know what I was thinking.

[Spurs Homer]

You're right, indentured servitude is so much better than a rational legal pathway to work for immigrants and eligibility verification by employers. I don't know what I was thinking.


Well of course I agree with ^ that -

but look at where THAT has got us right this moment?

What you mentioned is supposedly our position right now - but what are we doing?
Following a racist cult nazi and about to build walls , separate and cage children and throw a parade for our nazi!

[Winehole23]

you seem loose this morning, Spurs Homer, has happy hour already started?

[spurraider21]

seems most people on this board are good with stronger enforcement against hiring undocumented workers.

i think a zero tolerance policy on anybody who is undocumented and commits a crime is fair.

i believe people overstate the benefits received by illegal immigrants. they aren't eligible for social security, foodstamps, medicaid, etc. are emergency medical services such a major concern? now on a state by state basis, yes there are differences. many states to provide benefits to all people including illegal immigrants. but that's not a federal issue.

as for the concern that "illegals commit crimes"... unless you can support the contention that they are more prone to crime than legal residents, then it's moot. at that point, any arbitrary rule in curbing population would be just as effective if criminality is your only concern. a single child rule would be just as effective.

the rate at which immigration petitions are processed is dreadfully slow and has only gotten slower in recent years. that's not helping. as has been explained here, a majority of illegal aliens in recent years are those who got here legally and overstayed visas. make that system more efficient. constant policing of the border isn't going to solve that issue.

[rmt]

hahaha. Amusing when I read a post and wonder which side SH is on. Then brought back to reality with talk of cult and nazis.

[rmt]

None of the suggestions here would stem the tide of children who we are obligated to educate, feed, clothe, etc. That'd be a (high) wall.

[Blake]

None of the suggestions here would stem the tide of children who we are obligated to educate, feed, clothe, etc. That'd be a (high) wall.

Which verse of the Bible did Jesus say to build a wall to keep out the stupid, hungry, naked children

[Trill Clinton]

It's not illegal Mexicans shooting up schools. I agree with border control but spending 3B tax dollars on it is ridiculous.

[ElNono]

None of the suggestions here would stem the tide of children who we are obligated to educate, feed, clothe, etc. That'd be a (high) wall.

Except that obligation exists for whoever resides here. At that point is not our money anymore, it’s part of the government budget. If we were to choose what to do with that money, I would completely ban home schooling, for example.

But it’s a moot point.

[ducks]

Americans aren't going to work as abused, poisoned, underpaid/unpaid ag / farm hands

Problem is a lot of Americans do not want blue collar jobs above that
Rather collect money on welfare

[ducks]

It's not illegal Mexicans shooting up schools. I agree with border control but spending 3B tax dollars on it is ridiculous.

Spending it to control who comes in and not is a good idea ask euro now

[boutons_deux]

Trump’s Incoming Chief of Staff Said in 2015 That Border Wall Was a “Childish” Idea That Wouldn’t Work


https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/12/mick-mulvaney-border-wall-childish-simplistic-cnn.html

[CosmicCowboy]

A wall/fence/barrier certainly makes sense in urban and populated areas. I don't understand how this can even be debated. Out in the middle of the desert, not so much.

[Trill Clinton]

Spending it to control who comes in and not is a good idea ask euro now

Just read he's asking for 5B for the wall...fuck that. He needs to holla at Mexico like he said he was going to do.

[Pavlov]

A wall/fence/barrier certainly makes sense in urban and populated areas. I don't understand how this can even be debated. Out in the middle of the desert, not so much.Don't we already have walls in those areas?

[rmt]

Except that obligation exists for whoever resides here. At that point is not our money anymore, it’s part of the government budget. If we were to choose what to do with that money, I would completely ban home schooling, for example.

But it’s a moot point.

When kids are sent across the border alone, you don't think climbing over a high wall (that currently isn't there) as opposed to just walking across the border - would deter parents from sending them? Would this not reduce the number of kids who come illegally across the border and thus the amount of money used for educating them? That that money could be used for American kids?

What does home schooling have to do with any government money? I don't get a penny for home schooling, and I pay property taxes on 2 houses. IMO, to be strictly fair, the money should follow the student regardless of what type of schooling the student/parent chooses (like Canada and Finland?). Instead, the money that should go toward Blake's daughter and my kids gets divvyed? up among the public school (and they still, in general, do a crappy job) students.

What particularly do you have against homeschooling? Public schools may not do as good a job of educating students (especially special needs/autistic ones) as a caring parent - particularly in rural or smaller districts with limited resources.

[Cuppycake Gumdrop]

Nobody wants to solve immigration, that's a huge fearmongering tool for both sides to run political campaigns on.

"aint no money in the cure" - Chris Rock

[CosmicCowboy]

Don't we already have walls in those areas?

Not all of them where they are needed.

[ElNono]

When kids are sent across the border alone, you don't think climbing over a high wall (that currently isn't there) as opposed to just walking across the border - would deter parents from sending them? Would this not reduce the number of kids who come illegally across the border and thus the amount of money used for educating them? That that money could be used for American kids?

What does home schooling have to do with any government money? I don't get a penny for home schooling, and I pay property taxes on 2 houses. IMO, to be strictly fair, the money should follow the student regardless of what type of schooling the student/parent chooses (like Canada and Finland?). Instead, the money that should go toward Blake's daughter and my kids gets divvyed? up among the public school (and they still, in general, do a crappy job) students.

What particularly do you have against homeschooling? Public schools may not do as good a job of educating students (especially special needs/autistic ones) as a caring parent - particularly in rural or smaller districts with limited resources.

I don’t want any kid to risk their lives at all to come to the US, but that’s not the argument you presented. Once the kids are here, I much rather they be well fed and educated to become healthy members of our society.

No wall is stopping them from coming here. Just like they pay coyotes to bring families in, they can pay Mexicans with legal tourists visas to register and bring kids over. People that don’t understand our immigration system fall for stupid solutions looking for a problem.

What do I have about homeschooling? That we can’t guarantee every parent that opts for that will provide the proper academic standard for the kid. Some may, some may not, but for those that they do not, the kid isn’t getting all that time back and as a society it’s only our fault when that fails, since we enable it. Sure, there’s very special cases that might require exceptions to the rule, but that’s what it should be, an exception.

[Pavlov]

Not all of them where they are needed.Like where?

[CosmicCowboy]

Like where?

According to border patrol and homeland security the Rio Grande valley for one.

[Pavlov]

According to border patrol and homeland security the Rio Grande valley for one.The whole thing?

Maybe they should patrol that border some more.

[CosmicCowboy]

The whole thing?

Maybe they should patrol that border some more.

I'm not going to be baited into a stupid argument with you. Border Patrol says they need it. Argue with them.

[Pavlov]

I'm not going to be baited into a stupid argument with you. Border Patrol says they need it. Argue with them.I will if they're talking about golf courses and butterfly sanctuaries tbh.

[Blake]

I'm not going to be baited into a stupid argument with you. Border Patrol says they need it. Argue with them.

Trump says BP doing a great job. No caravan crossed over

[Pavlov]

Trump says BP doing a great job. No caravan crossed overYep, just like ISIS is no longer a problem. Why are there still troops near the border?

[CosmicCowboy]

If you cant argue the facts then argue stupid strawman shit.

[Blake]

If you cant argue the facts then argue stupid strawman shit.

Trump praising the BP Is a fact.

Old man grumpy getting close to nap time huh

[Pavlov]

If you cant argue the facts then argue stupid strawman shit.Fact: no caravan invaded the US.

Fact: Troops are still stationed near the border.

Why?

[Pavlov]

Rather than talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems? Make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit, and they, while they’re working and earning here, they’d pay taxes here. And when they want to go back, they can go back. They can cross. Open borders both ways.

[CosmicCowboy]

Trump praising the BP Is a fact.

Old man grumpy getting close to nap time huh

I said nothing about Trump. You need to get over being cucked by a fat girl and picking stupid strawman fights on the internet.

[Nathan89]

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/least-educated-state-california-no-1-percentage-residents-25-and

According to this link(could be bullshit because I found it on a meh site) the entirety of the border with Mexico is in the top 6 states with residents over 25 that never finished the 9th grade. So yeah, we need a border wall, we need to punish anyone employing illegals severely, and we need to get rid of of birthright citizenship.

[CosmicCowboy]

Rather than talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems? Make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit, and they, while they’re working and earning here, they’d pay taxes here. And when they want to go back, they can go back. They can cross. Open borders both ways.

I'm fine with that. Apply for a work Visa, get qualified, and then come and go through a legitimate border entry point. Don't sneak across and then throw your hands up and cry for asylum when you get caught.

[Luka Doncic]

Rather than talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems? Make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit, and they, while they’re working and earning here, they’d pay taxes here. And when they want to go back, they can go back. They can cross. Open borders both ways.
Yeah but MS-13 and rapists

[Pavlov]

If they’re living here, I don’t want to see six and eight year old kids being made totally uneducated and feel like they’re living outside the law.

[CosmicCowboy]

If they’re living here, I don’t want to see six and eight year old kids being made totally uneducated and feel like they’re living outside the law.

I agree. Congress will never work out a rational solution because it's too valuable as a political football.

[CosmicCowboy]

The right wing looneys and the congressional black caucus would both lose their minds if we made it legal for immigrant brown people to work here.

[Nathan89]

The right wing looneys and the congressional black caucus would both lose their minds if we made it legal for immigrant brown people to work here.

You mean illegal aliens. And as your statement shows it has nothing to do with skin color. You are basically pointing that Americans would be upset because cheap labor from illegals is undercutting them. How dare Americans standup for the betterment of their lives.

[koriwhat]

You mean illegal aliens. And as your statement shows it has nothing to do with skin color. You are basically pointing that Americans would be upset because cheap labor from illegals is undercutting them. How dare Americans standup for the betterment of their lives.

:tu

[DMC]

The right wing looneys and the congressional black caucus would both lose their minds if we made it legal for immigrant brown people to work here.


You mean illegal aliens. And as your statement shows it has nothing to do with skin color. You are basically pointing that Americans would be upset because cheap labor from illegals is undercutting them. How dare Americans standup for the betterment of their lives.

You're both right in a way (not sure about the CBC). Some on the right don't want anyone coming into the country. Some welcome legal newcomers. You cannot necessarily say that the right doesn't want brown people, or that the right only cares about legality. Because of the mixture, you can use either group to make your point if you're in need of making your point.

[CosmicCowboy]

You mean illegal aliens. And as your statement shows it has nothing to do with skin color. You are basically pointing that Americans would be upset because cheap labor from illegals is undercutting them. How dare Americans standup for the betterment of their lives.

No, I'm talking about making "illegal" immigrants legal. Getting them into the system. Weeding out the bad ones. Keeping the good ones.

[Nathan89]

No, I'm talking about making "illegal" immigrants legal. Getting them into the system. Weeding out the bad ones. Keeping the good ones.

Welcoming massive amounts of low skilled legals has the same impact as illegals.

[Pavlov]

Welcoming massive amounts of low skilled legals has the same impact as illegals.Is that why Trump does it for his resorts?

[spurraider21]

You're both right in a way (not sure about the CBC). Some on the right don't want anyone coming into the country. Some welcome legal newcomers. You cannot necessarily say that the right doesn't want brown people, or that the right only cares about legality. Because of the mixture, you can use either group to make your point if you're in need of making your point.
yep nathan is the former, cc is the latter.

though hard to really pin nathan down as "the right" since he was a bernie bro not too long ago. he's just very impressionable.

[koriwhat]

You're both right in a way (not sure about the CBC). Some on the right don't want anyone coming into the country. Some welcome legal newcomers. You cannot necessarily say that the right doesn't want brown people, or that the right only cares about legality. Because of the mixture, you can use either group to make your point if you're in need of making your point.

i'm down to close the borders to everyone outside the USA rn! that's a great fucking plan imo. fuck this USA has to accept X amount of non-citizens per year. let em all make their home countries great again and stay the fuck out of ours.

[Spurminator]

i'm down to close the borders to everyone outside the USA rn! that's a great fucking plan imo. fuck this USA has to accept X amount of non-citizens per year. let em all make their home countries great again and stay the fuck out of ours.

You know what would make the country greater? Deporting your dumb ass.

There are millions of non-Americans who would be more productive to the USA than you.

[koriwhat]

You know what would make the country greater? Deporting your dumb ass.

There are millions of non-Americans who would be more productive to the USA than you.

and idgaf about your opinion nor that of all those illegals and non-citizens. :cry some more bitch

[Nathan89]

yep nathan is the former, cc is the latter.

though hard to really pin nathan down as "the right" since he was a bernie bro not too long ago. he's just very impressionable.

False, I'd welcome talented legal immigrants(not sure what the cap on this would be). Welfare statistics that I've seen show that is not what is currently happening. Cc solution is making massive amounts of people legal which is supposed to prevent people from even trying to be illegal. That's a moronic solution.

[CosmicCowboy]

False, I'd welcome talented legal immigrants(not sure what the cap on this would be). Welfare statistics that I've seen show that is not what is currently happening. Cc solution is making massive amounts of people legal which is supposed to prevent people from even trying to be illegal. That's a moronic solution.

You misinterpret my position. I am more for the Canadian plan where you qualify the immigrants. I don't advocate just throwing the doors open.

[spurraider21]

False, I'd welcome talented legal immigrants(not sure what the cap on this would be). Welfare statistics that I've seen show that is not what is currently happening. Cc solution is making massive amounts of people legal which is supposed to prevent people from even trying to be illegal. That's a moronic solution.
well you've been pretty vocal against immigrants from the south because you think they're all stupid

[DMC]

i'm down to close the borders to everyone outside the USA rn! that's a great fucking plan imo. fuck this USA has to accept X amount of non-citizens per year. let em all make their home countries great again and stay the fuck out of ours.

At one point your ancestors were non-citizens most likely. Being a citizen doesn't make you a landlord. It just makes you a tenant.

[Trill Clinton]

Wow
https://twitter.com/rob_bennett/status/1075976638142259200?s=19

[Chucho]

Nice.

[Spurs Homer]

Wow
https://twitter.com/rob_bennett/status/1075976638142259200?s=19


"who's gonna pay for the wall?"

"cult members!"

"who's gonna pay"

"cult members!"

[Chucho]

"who's gonna pay for the wall?"

"cult members!"

"who's gonna pay"

"cult members!"

Nah, you paying for it too, faggot.

[Nathan89]

because you think they're all stupid

If I thought that then I wouldn't be saying "I'd welcome talented immigrants". But carry on with your bad faith nonsense.

[Nathan89]

Wow
https://twitter.com/rob_bennett/status/1075976638142259200?s=19

Worried about American tax dollars and complains about pulling out of a war. :lol

[phxspurfan]

The same party arguing for less government less taxes now holding the country hostage over more spending. Guess what, all you rust belt low income uneducated people are being used to promote the top 1% getting richer. That’s it. Go ahead, have your shit construction job that’s temporary until the bubble bursts. After that, who will you ride with next election when you’re still poor and jobless again?

[Nathan89]

Open borders is a Koch brothers proposal according to Bernie Sanders. Are they in the 1% dipshit?:lol

[Pavlov]

Open borders is a Koch brothers proposal according to Bernie Sanders. Are they in the 1% dipshit?:lol
Why are you talking about Bernie now, bro?

[tlongII]

The majority of illegal immigrants for the last five years or so overstay valid visas, are college degreed and English speaking.

The present and future of immigration to the US is from Asia.

You and the most of the posters are fixed on the wave of the past. Central American immigration will never completely go away, but to push it forward as typical of the aggregate is misleading at best, ignorant at worst.

Incorrect. Too long a boat ride.

[Winehole23]

Incorrect. Too long a boat ride.They arrive on airplanes with visas issued by the US State Department.

[rmt]

The same party arguing for less government less taxes now holding the country hostage over more spending. Guess what, all you rust belt low income uneducated people are being used to promote the top 1% getting richer. That’s it. Go ahead, have your shit construction job that’s temporary until the bubble bursts. After that, who will you ride with next election when you’re still poor and jobless again?

Kindly substitute for "over more spending" for - over a PERMANENT STRUCTURE that will (FOREVER) SAVE a lot more than the measly $5 billion that's being asked for. I will never understand how insulting people could possibly persuade them to come to your side of the argument.

[Winehole23]

Kindly substitute for "over more spending" for - over a PERMANENT STRUCTURE that will (FOREVER) SAVE a lot more than the measly $5 billion that's being asked for. I will never understand how insulting people could possibly persuade them to come to your side of the argument.If the majority of illegal immigrants come to the USA on airplanes with valid visas, how does building a wall on our southern border solve the problem?

And btw, what problem do degreed, English speaking Asians present that you want solved?

[Will Hunting]

If the Dems were smart they’d bargain with Trump once they take the House next year and leverage the fact he’s got everything riding on this stupid wall. Offer legislation that includes funding for the wall in exchange for rolling back tax cuts for the rich and/or undoing everything he did to weaken Obamacare.

As dumb as the wall is (simply because it doesn’t solve the problem), liberals who act like it’s this horrific idea that upsets their moral compass are retarded. The only people the wall would hurt are those who want to cross into the country illegally. If there was a scenario where we could get the wall for free I’d say go for it. Since it’s a relatively meaningless thing that doesn’t hurt Americans at all outside of the fact it’s a waste of money (but it’s not a huge amount of money and it’s a one time cost), it’s a great tool to leverage for the Democrats. Unfortunately they’d rather blow it out of proportion and turn it into a wedge issue to try and win over a bunch of Hispanics who don’t even vote.

[Winehole23]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqCzALTUUAE2-bc.jpg

[Winehole23]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqCyuimVsAUJxFX.jpg

[Winehole23]

the wave of low skilled immigration has basically collapsed:

https://gps.ucsd.edu/_files/faculty/hanson/hanson_publication_immigration_risefall.pdf

[Winehole23]

rate of apprehensions hasn't been this low for 45 years:


http://www.wola.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Apprehensions-graph-ENG.gif (https://www.wola.org/2016/10/wola-report-u-s-mexico-border-requires-evidence-based-humanitarian-solutions-not-border-walls/)

[DarrinS]

Nice job mixing immigrants with illegal immigrants and passing off apprehension chart as surrogate for "rate of immigration" .

[BD24]

We definitely need to look at reducing the amount of time it takes for skilled labor from India and China to get work visas and GC tbh. The fact it takes 10+ years for someone from India to obtain a GC is fucking ridiculous. We have an extreme lack of tech talent in the US, in this tight labor market having it take 2-4 years to get a GC instead of 10-12 would be a big help tbh.

[Winehole23]

correlation, not causation, but it is relevant to this conversation that increased immigration over the last 40 years did NOT correlate to rising crime:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15377938.2016.1261057

[Winehole23]

Nice job mixing immigrants with illegal immigrants and passing off apprehension chart as surrogate for "rate of immigration" .I can post that too if you like, but you're right, that's mislabeled, I'll edit.

[Winehole23]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqAPwrcUUAAo7q9.jpg

[Winehole23]

net immigration rates well within the historical norm at present day:

https://www.mercatus.org/sites/default/files/c1b._net_immigration1_data_note_added_layer_remove d_v31000_ppi_2.png (https://www.mercatus.org/publications/net-us-immigration-rate-well-within-historical-norm)

[DarrinS]

Still conflating immigration with illegal immigration

[boutons_deux]

"major events impacting US immigration" for 1840s - 1850s peaks was the 30 Years War, which is what pushed Germans, Poles, Italians into, eg, Texas.

[Winehole23]

economic impact of immigration on Texas: the studies do not agree.

the 2006 Texas Comptroller's report suggested a net positive

that study and other Texas focused studies are analyzed here:

https://files.texaspolicy.com/uploads/2018/08/16102134/Immigration-s-Impact-on-the-Texas-Economy.pdf

[Winehole23]

Still conflating immigration with illegal immigrationfine, you want that?

https://www.frbatlanta.org/-/media/Images/blogs/macroblog/2016/1005-slump-undocumented-immigration-to-united-states/chart-1-of-3-undocumented-immigrant-flows-from-mexico-to-the-united-states.png (https://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2016/10/the-slump-in-undocumented-immigration-to-the-united-states.html)

[Winehole23]

same damn trend, Darrin, the distinction makes no difference

[boutons_deux]

https://files.texaspolicy.com/uploads/2018/08/16102134/Immigration-s-Impact-on-the-Texas-Economy.pdf (https://files.texaspolicy.com/uploads/2018/08/16102134/Immigration-s-Impact-on-the-Texas-Economy.pdf)

"the primary reason that immigrants are drawn to Texas, both from Latin America and elsewhere in the U.S., is due to the unique economic opportunitiesthe state provides" :lol

... compared to the FAILED STATE US-created shitholes they come from,

AND

TX is just across the river. "unique" :lol

a conservative stink tank, funded by BigCorp

"Projects of the organization include Right on Crime (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_on_Crime), which is focused on criminal justice reform,[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Public_Policy_Foundation#cite_note-4) and

Fueling Freedom, which seeks to

"explain the forgotten moral case :lol for fossil fuels"[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Public_Policy_Foundation#cite_note-5)

by expressing views skeptical of the scientific consensus on climate change (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change)." :lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Public_Policy_Foundation

sub-text:

There is no need to increase TX safety net for these brownies, so keep reducing it, because the desperate, exploitable-for-Repug-profits immigrants will keep coming. Close the TX health care / perinatal care clinics, keep the infant/maternal mortality rate highest in developed world.

[DMC]

the wave of low skilled immigration has basically collapsed:

https://gps.ucsd.edu/_files/faculty/hanson/hanson_publication_immigration_risefall.pdf

Does this consider illegal immigration. Pretty sure that's what's being discussed.

[DMC]

fine, you want that?

https://www.frbatlanta.org/-/media/Images/blogs/macroblog/2016/1005-slump-undocumented-immigration-to-united-states/chart-1-of-3-undocumented-immigrant-flows-from-mexico-to-the-united-states.png (https://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2016/10/the-slump-in-undocumented-immigration-to-the-united-states.html)

You're tracking apprehensions. Do you think that fewer caught means fewer crossed? Couldn't that be just the opposite?

[Winehole23]

already addressed. that majority of illegal immigrants in 2018 are college graduates who overstay their visas.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5lXEz-NgrEA/WdKEvSXf7ZI/AAAAAAAAADw/GqeOKEu9ZVkcq6OPagQgsXxS591W61MPgCLcBGAs/s1600/Pictographical-graph-of-most-excellence-to-the-max-but-not-the-jewish-max.png (http://mrvsthoughtsonimmigration.blogspot.com/2017/10/the-immigrant-population.html)

[Winehole23]

You're tracking apprehensions. Do you think that fewer caught means fewer crossed? Couldn't that be just the opposite?it could be. make your case.

[DMC]

it could be. make your case.

I don't need to. Confirmation bias is on your side since we cannot disprove a negative. You're the one trying to show correlation. Prove there's correlation between number of apprehensions and number of crossings.

Also, how does this have anything at all to do with education level that you showed earlier when you were conflating immigration with illegal immigration?

What's the odds that all these congressmen who are against a border wall actually live in gated communities?

[DMC]

already addressed. that majority of illegal immigrants in 2018 are college graduates who overstay their visas.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5lXEz-NgrEA/WdKEvSXf7ZI/AAAAAAAAADw/GqeOKEu9ZVkcq6OPagQgsXxS591W61MPgCLcBGAs/s1600/Pictographical-graph-of-most-excellence-to-the-max-but-not-the-jewish-max.png (http://mrvsthoughtsonimmigration.blogspot.com/2017/10/the-immigrant-population.html)

The wall is for people who cross the border illegally. They are undocumented. You're playing a game of semantics. You're comparing people who won't leave the store after closing to people who broke in through the back door. One is illegal trespass while the other is breaking and entering.

[Will Hunting]

The wall is for people who cross the border illegally. They are undocumented. You're playing a game of semantics. You're comparing people who won't leave the store after closing to people who broke in through the back door. One is illegal trespass while the other is breaking and entering.
I think he's saying that right now, illegal trespass is a much bigger problem than breaking and entering such that it doesn't make sense to focus on a solution that only solves the breaking and entering problem.

Just for the sake of playing devil's advocate to that argument, one fair point is that building a fence to stop illegals from crossing the border isn't mutually exclusive with enforcing immigration laws against those with overstayed visas.

[Joseph Kony]

its really not that big of a deal. only fucktarded morons actually believe that immigration is this huge issue thats killing the US. the problem in this country is its being run by anti-science morons and the populace in general is fairly scientifically illiterate.

[boutons_deux]

"country is its being run by anti-science morons"

nope,

the country is being run by extremely intelligent, extremely motivated, relentless predators, and they hire, with high starting salaries, the best physics, chemistry, and math graduates and post graduates

[Nathan89]

Seems like a significant amount still cross the border. That's not really a good argument tbh.

[Winehole23]

The wall is for people who cross the border illegally. They are undocumented. You're playing a game of semantics. You're comparing people who won't leave the store after closing to people who broke in through the back door. One is illegal trespass while the other is breaking and entering.Your idiosyncratic ethical scruple makes no difference to ICE: both are eligible for deportation.

[DMC]

I think he's saying that right now, illegal trespass is a much bigger problem than breaking and entering such that it doesn't make sense to focus on a solution that only solves the breaking and entering problem.

Just for the sake of playing devil's advocate to that argument, one fair point is that building a fence to stop illegals from crossing the border isn't mutually exclusive with enforcing immigration laws against those with overstayed visas.

That's true. However securing borders and policing visas are two separate issues, both fall under the "illegal immigration" umbrella.

[DMC]

Your idiosyncratic ethical scruple makes no difference to ICE: both are eligible for deportation.

I really have no idea what point you're trying to make. The problem isn't the number of deportations required. The problem is the number of undocumented immigrants who game the system in the US. Someone who gets a visa has been somewhat vetted, they just overstay the visa. Anyone can just walk across though and be undocumented to exist in the US, and they can bring children, and no one can even really know if it's their own kids.

There's a significant difference between overstaying a visa and breaking into a country.

[tlongII]

They arrive on airplanes with visas issued by the US State Department.


They will never be at the volume of immigration from south of the border. Logistically it doesn’t compute.

[Winehole23]

Seems like a significant amount still cross the border. That's not really a good argument tbh.
You still have none for a wall.

[Winehole23]

They will never be at the volume of immigration from south of the border. Logistically it doesn’t compute.Visa skippers already exceed that volume, too bad if you can't comprehend.

[tlongII]

Visa skippers already exceed that volume, too bad if you can't comprehend.

Visa skippers from Asia exceed the volume of immigrants from south of the border? Really? That’s ridiculous.

[Will Hunting]

They will never be at the volume of immigration from south of the border. Logistically it doesn’t compute.

It's not a matter of opinion that in recent years we've had more illegal immigration from expired visas than illegal crossing from Mexico, it's simply fact. Back in the early 2000s when the housing bubble caused a temporary spike in demand for construction labor that wasn't the case at all but it is now.

[DarrinS]

With respect to H1B visa program, we prioritize getting their best people, with vastly more slots given to advanced degree holders. I forget what the cap is -- a couple hundred thousand, iirc.

[DMC]

These two things aren't mutually exclusive. You can do both, police visas and secure the borders. Policing visas directly confronts individual offenders. Securing borders prohibits a higher degree of future undocumented offenders. If you can document offenders, you can prosecute them. You cannot prosecute what is undocumented. While both are problems, they are not addressed in the same way. You don't have to solve all problems to have a working solution for a problem.

If you're a home owner and you're leasing your home - you have a tenant who hasn't paid rent in 3 months. You are evicting the tenant through legal means. They will eventually be taken out of the house and they are known to exist, you know who they are, you at one time approved their application. Contrast that with another home you own and lease out, that had the back door breached and people living there undocumented. In the 1st instance you have legal recourse, in the second you don't even know they are there, you only know that someone is there at some point and the damage that was done. You have no real legal recourse. You build stronger doors or you buy a home in a gated or better community or something along those lines. In the eviction notice case, you could simply make more stringent standards for acceptance if it's a recurrent issue.

[Nathan89]

Visa skippers already exceed that volume, too bad if you can't comprehend.

Nothing in my statement indicated that I didn't comprehend that tbh.

[Winehole23]

You're tlong?

Thanks for sharing.

[Pavlov]

These two things aren't mutually exclusive. You can do both, police visas and secure the borders. Policing visas directly confronts individual offenders. Securing borders prohibits a higher degree of future undocumented offenders. If you can document offenders, you can prosecute them. You cannot prosecute what is undocumented. While both are problems, they are not addressed in the same way. You don't have to solve all problems to have a working solution for a problem.

If you're a home owner and you're leasing your home - you have a tenant who hasn't paid rent in 3 months. You are evicting the tenant through legal means. They will eventually be taken out of the house and they are known to exist, you know who they are, you at one time approved their application. Contrast that with another home you own and lease out, that had the back door breached and people living there undocumented. In the 1st instance you have legal recourse, in the second you don't even know they are there, you only know that someone is there at some point and the damage that was done. You have no real legal recourse. You build stronger doors or you buy a home in a gated or better community or something along those lines. In the eviction notice case, you could simply make more stringent standards for acceptance if it's a recurrent issue.Are you in favor of a full 2000 mile border wall?

[Winehole23]

Visa skippers from Asia exceed the volume of immigrants from south of the border? Really? That’s ridiculous.All visa jumpers. I posted support upstream. Crossing the southern border has been the number two way to get in for about ten years.

[Winehole23]

I know it's hard to change your manner of thinking when facts change. It's not 2007 anymore.

[DarrinS]

I agree that a border wall would be useless against people not crossing the southern border. :lol

[DarrinS]

I also agree that we don't have an epidemic of violent gangs of PhD's from India.

[tlongII]

It's not a matter of opinion that in recent years we've had more illegal immigration from expired visas than illegal crossing from Mexico, it's simply fact. Back in the early 2000s when the housing bubble caused a temporary spike in demand for construction labor that wasn't the case at all but it is now.

False.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/research/analysis-unauthorized-immigrants-united-states-country-and-region-birth

[Winehole23]

I also agree that we don't have an epidemic of violent gangs of PhD's from India.

We also don't have an epidemic from Central America. Central American illegal immigrants have a lower arrest rate than all US natives and nearly all other national categories.

[Will Hunting]

These two things aren't mutually exclusive. You can do both, police visas and secure the borders. Policing visas directly confronts individual offenders. Securing borders prohibits a higher degree of future undocumented offenders. If you can document offenders, you can prosecute them. You cannot prosecute what is undocumented. While both are problems, they are not addressed in the same way. You don't have to solve all problems to have a working solution for a problem.
They are mutually exclusive in that we only have a finite amount of resources to spend on enforcing immigration laws so we want to make sure they're used in the most effective/efficient way, but I don't disagree with the gist of what you're saying. I just don't think illegal immigration over the Southern border is currently that big of a problem, and I don't think adding an incremental ~1300 miles of wall (700 of the 2000 miles already being walled) accomplishes much in further deterring illegal immigration to the point where it's worth the cost (you're smart enough to know that the cost of said wall would be more than $5B :lol). It's an oversimplified and extremely inefficient solution to what's currently a small problem.

The returns diminish pretty quickly when you start walling the unpopulated areas that are already difficult to cross because of natural conditions (i.e., the Sonoran Desert border in Arizona where people have died trying to cross by foot, or the wilderness areas in CA with mountains that make it impossible to cross by vehicle and difficult to cross by foot), especially because of terrain that makes a wall more expensive and the environmental implications a giant wall that separates wildlife and plants has on those areas.

I'm all for walling or adding some kind of barrier to the population centers or other areas that we know had a high amount of illegal immigration/activity 15 years ago, but I think a combination of the Bush and Obama administrations already did so. Beyond that, the more effective deterrent to illegal immigration from Mexico imo is a heightened effort to make it more difficult for employers to hire illegals and more efficient forms of surveillance in areas where a wall doesn't make sense (radar, drones, etc.)

[Will Hunting]

False.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/research/analysis-unauthorized-immigrants-united-states-country-and-region-birth
Can you site the part where it either says (or shows data) that we have more illegal immigration from the Southern border than we have from expired visas?

[Will Hunting]

Nevermind, you're pointing to existing illegal immigration population (which a wall does absolutely nothing to fix) rather than where we currently get more illegal immigrants (the question that's actually relevant for a wall discussion).

[Will Hunting]

:lmao from the link Tlong himself posted:


During the 1990s, the unauthorized population rose substantially, doubling from 3.5 million to 7 million. It continued to increase during the 2000s, reaching a peak of 12.2 million in 2007, then fell to 11 million during and after the recession. While Mexicans comprised a majority of unauthorized immigrants throughout these years, between 2007 and 2013 the population declined by about 1 million. In contrast, unauthorized populations from Central America, Asia, and Africa grew rapidly after 2000—with the numbers from Central America and Asia tripling and from Africa doubling. Countries significantly represented in these increases include China, Ethiopia, Ghana, Guatemala, Honduras, India, and South Korea.

So for the last 10 years, the illegal Mexican population in this country has actually gone DOWN, and the only immigration we've had from the Southern border has been Central American immigrants (unless you think the people from Africa and Asia illegaly in this country got here by crossing the Southern border :lol).

[Spurminator]

You're tlong?

Thanks for sharing.

Would not at all surprise me, tbh

[koriwhat]

funny how the loons in here want to bring the president down for supposed criminal activity but on the flipside these same loons want to let criminals invade our country while breaking numerous laws in the process. what fucking hypocrites yall are tbh.

[Spurminator]

funny how the loons in here want to bring the president down for supposed criminal activity but on the flipside these same loons want to let criminals invade our country while breaking numerous laws in the process. what fucking hypocrites yall are tbh.

Yeah weird how we want to hold the most powerful person in the country responsible for crimes but don't want to spend billions of dollars on ineffective preventative measures targeting nobodies.

[Thanos]

funny how the loons in here want to bring the president down for supposed criminal activity but on the flipside these same loons want to let criminals invade our country while breaking numerous laws in the process. what fucking hypocrites yall are tbh.
What crime is being commited by people entering the country legally? And are you somehow equating illegal border crossing with fraud?

[Spurminator]

What's really stupid is when people want the opposite. The President is the highest office in the land, and you sycophants want to give him a pass while targeting a kid fleeing a civil war.

[koriwhat]

Yeah weird how we want to hold the most powerful person in the country responsible for crimes but don't want to spend billions of dollars on ineffective preventative measures targeting nobodies.

instead we spend money on welfare and other bs for those who take advantage of our country instead of making theirs worth a fuck. you have no soap box to stand on tbh. your reply is weak.


What crime is being commited by people entering the country legally? And are you somehow equating illegal border crossing with fraud?

lmao trying to play the "coming in legally" angle when you fucks usher in illegals with their own legal council waiting and willing. too fucking funny!

[koriwhat]

What's really stupid is when people want the opposite. The President is the highest office in the land, and you sycophants want to give him a pass while targeting a kid fleeing a civil war.

who wants to give him a pass? not i but i also see nothing but a political hit job by the left starting with HRC's paid for dossier. you and your side are a bunch of clowns.

[Thanos]

instead we spend money on welfare and other bs for those who take advantage of our country instead of making theirs worth a fuck. you have no soap box to stand on tbh. your reply is weak.



lmao trying to play the "coming in legally" angle when you fucks usher in illegals with their own legal council waiting and willing. too fucking funny!
So crossing the border illegally is on par with treason?

[Thanos]

who wants to give him a pass? not i but i also see nothing but a political hit job by the left starting with HRC's paid for dossier. you and your side are a bunch of clowns.
Of course you see it that way, you’re politically conservative.

[tlongII]

Nevermind, you're pointing to existing illegal immigration population (which a wall does absolutely nothing to fix) rather than where we currently get more illegal immigrants (the question that's actually relevant for a wall discussion).

It’s clear you don’t understand. I’ve never said anything about the wall. I’m referring to the biggest problem with illegal immigration. It’s proven it’s with folks south of the border. If you want to dispute that go ahead. It kinda makes you look like an idiot though.

[Spurminator]

who wants to give him a pass?

You do. You're not fooling anyone. Trump could be filmed committing treason and you'd insist he was set up by the libs. You're a very gullible lackey who can't think for himself, so you choose a side and hurl childish vulgarities at the other like some kind of retarded pro wrestling fan who takes the theatrics way too seriously.

[koriwhat]

So crossing the border illegally is on par with treason?

on par with treason? lmao! show me the proof mueller... you act like you know anything but you're in the dark like the rest of us so stop acting like you're on the inside. i don't what's on par with what; i'm more concerned about our laws never being enforced like crossing the border illegally! i really don't give a fuck about sympathy so you can drop that bs already.


Of course you see it that way, you’re politically conservative.

i'm politically conservative? lmao! say it a million times little kid and it still won't come true. :cry

it's fucking noted she paid for that fucking dossier but blow it off all you want even though it won't change the fact hrc is a stupid cunt.

[koriwhat]

You do. You're not fooling anyone. Trump could be filmed committing treason and you'd insist he was set up by the libs. You're a very gullible lackey who can't think for himself, so you choose a side and hurl childish vulgarities at the other like some kind of retarded pro wrestling fan who takes the theatrics way too seriously.

am i the gullible one or are you? you seem to play make believe in your head 24/7 and yet you feel like you're safe from the same scrutiny.

you basically described yourself holmes. fucking retard.

[Will Hunting]

It’s clear you don’t understand. I’ve never said anything about the wall. I’m referring to the biggest problem with illegal immigration. It’s proven it’s with folks south of the border. If you want to dispute that go ahead. It kinda makes you look like an idiot though.
So how do you propose we solve the problem you’re referring to?

[Spurminator]

am i the gullible one or are you? you seem to play make believe in your head 24/7 and yet you feel like you're safe from the same scrutiny.

you basically described yourself holmes. fucking retard.

"I know you are but what am I?" More childishness.

[ElNono]

With respect to H1B visa program, we prioritize getting their best people, with vastly more slots given to advanced degree holders. I forget what the cap is -- a couple hundred thousand, iirc.


With respect to H1B visa program, we prioritize getting their best people, with vastly more slots given to advanced degree holders. I forget what the cap is -- a couple hundred thousand, iirc.

Used to be 60k, then raised to 90k, but they can also bring a wife, so make that twice. Now, that’s per year, while a H1B lasts for 6 years, so we’re looking at 1 million (plus as many of those that eventually overstay).

The H1B program as codified makes sense, however, it’s been greatly abused in the past decade or so, by outsourcing companies that pay below market then contract out their consulting services, so it has been needing a few loops closed for a while now.

[DMC]

funny how the loons in here want to bring the president down for supposed criminal activity but on the flipside these same loons want to let criminals invade our country while breaking numerous laws in the process. what fucking hypocrites yall are tbh.

There's a higher expectation from the POTUS than from someone trying to keep themselves and their family alive. I don't think anyone is applying that double standard here.

[koriwhat]

There's a higher expectation from the POTUS than from someone trying to keep themselves and their family alive. I don't think anyone is applying that double standard here.

because we know for a fact they're all really upstanding people; not just one but every damn person trying to come here.

[ElNono]

because we know for a fact they're all really upstanding people; not just one but every damn person trying to come here.

I think we can pretty much safely ascertain that the vast majority are indeed upstanding people (I mean, if upstanding people = not criminals, that’s somewhat an arbitrary bar otherwise... some employers deem having calf tats unprofessional, so ymmv). At the end of the day, they’re just people coming in to fill an economic need, so I’m also not sure the bar needs to veer that far away from the job requirements

[koriwhat]

I think we can pretty much safely ascertain that the vast majority are indeed upstanding people (I mean, if upstanding people = not criminals, that’s somewhat an arbitrary bar otherwise... some employers deem having calf tats unprofessional, so ymmv). At the end of the day, they’re just people coming in to fill an economic need, so I’m also not sure the bar needs to veer that far away from the job requirements

lol taking a jab at me because you don't agree with my opinion but want me to agree with yours. as well, lol at you knowing every single border jumper there is personally. go back and stick your head in the sand.

as well, you're not from the USA so your opinion means shit to begin with.

[Blake]

lol taking a jab at me because you don't agree with my opinion but want me to agree with yours. as well, lol at you knowing every single border jumper there is personally. go back and stick your head in the sand.

Lol thin tatted skin

[koriwhat]

Lol thin tatted skin

you're still a cuck... forever cucked!

[boutons_deux]

Nation with Crumbling Bridges and Roads Excited to Build Giant Wall

https://media.newyorker.com/photos/59097014c14b3c606c107d3c/master/w_1298,c_limit/Borowitz-Nation-With-Crumbling-Bridges-and-Roads-Excited-to-Build-Giant-Wall.jpg

Across the U.S., whose rail system is a rickety antique plagued by deadly accidents,

Americans are increasingly recognizing that building a wall with Mexico, and possibly another one with Canada, should be the country's top priority.

Harland Dorrinson, the executive director of a Washington-based think tank called the Center for Responsible Immigration, believes that

most Americans favor the building of border walls over extravagant pet projects like structurally sound freeway overpasses.

"The estimated cost of a border wall with Mexico is five billion dollars," he said.

"We could easily blow the same amount of money on infrastructure repairs and have nothing to show for it but functioning highways."

Congress has dragged its feet on infrastructure spending in recent years,

but Dorrinson senses growing support in Washington for building a giant border wall.

"Even if for some reason we don't get the Mexicans to pay for it, five billion is a steal," he said.

While some think that America’s declining infrastructure is a national-security threat, Dorrinson strongly disagrees.

"If immigrants somehow get over the wall, the condition of our bridges and roads will keep them from getting very far,"

he said.

(https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/nation-with-crumbling-bridges-and-roads-excited-to-build-giant-wall)https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/nation-with-crumbling-bridges-and-roads-excited-to-build-giant-wall (https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/nation-with-crumbling-bridges-and-roads-excited-to-build-giant-wall)

[DMC]

What's really stupid is when people want the opposite. The President is the highest office in the land, and you sycophants want to give him a pass while targeting a kid fleeing a civil war.

The hyperbole isn't required if you have a salient point.

[ElNono]

lol taking a jab at me because you don't agree with my opinion but want me to agree with yours. as well, lol at you knowing every single border jumper there is personally. go back and stick your head in the sand.

as well, you're not from the USA so your opinion means shit to begin with.

First of all, my opinion is as good as yours or anybody’s else for that matter. Second of all, I’m a US citizen, so I can cancel your vote anytime I please, which ultimately is all that matters.

Third, you know nothing about economics or immigration, which is why you didn’t even bother addressing that point.

And lastly, I don’t have calf tats, which puts me in 99 percentile of the population that are not dumb as a rock.

[monosylab1k]

First of all, my opinion is as good as yours or anybody’s else for that matter. Second of all, I’m a US citizen, so I can cancel your vote anytime I please, which ultimately is all that matters.

Third, you know nothing about economics or immigration, which is why you didn’t even bother addressing that point.

And lastly, I don’t have calf tats, which puts me in 99 percentile of the population that are not dumb as a rock.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/5809cf4d61dc047ff129416fbfc13d66/tenor.gif?itemid=4392722

[Blake]

you're still a cuck... forever cucked!

Lol no it's not a tat.

[Spurtacular]

Lol no it's not a tat.

No, you're not going to be uncucked. Sorry.

[koriwhat]

First of all, my opinion is as good as yours or anybody’s else for that matter. Second of all, I’m a US citizen, so I can cancel your vote anytime I please, which ultimately is all that matters.

Third, you know nothing about economics or immigration, which is why you didn’t even bother addressing that point.

And lastly, I don’t have calf tats, which puts me in 99 percentile of the population that are not dumb as a rock.

lmao don't give a fuck about any of what you had to say.

ps: too bad you didn't cancel my votes years ago for that hack with his hack message of hope & change.

[ElNono]

You absolutely give a fuck, just like when you thought you were going to impress your buddies on how ‘hardcore’ you are by getting fucking calf tats.

Unfortunately intellectual poverty is a thing, and both sad and your own fault.

[ElNono]

PS: I didn’t vote for Obama nor Trump, so not sure where that came from.

[Blake]

No, you're not going to be uncucked. Sorry.

Forever rent free

[Spurtacular]

Forever rent free

Forever cucked.

[Winehole23]

Trump border security in action: ICE dumps hundreds of migrants at a Greyhound station in El Paso Sunday night without telling anyone.

1077380247065186304

[Winehole23]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvR_r4bVYAETBR5.jpg

[Winehole23]

last one today:

1077652331422978051

[Blake]

Forever cucked.

Lol no. Perpetual free rent.

[Spurtacular]

Lol no. Perpetual free rent.

:lol that you think your cuckbacks are creating a "free rent" scenario.

[Chris]

Trump border security in action: ICE dumps hundreds of migrants at a Greyhound station in El Paso Sunday night without telling anyone.

1077380247065186304


Looks like the shelters were at capacity and ICE was overwhelmed. How many hotel rooms did you rent out for the illegal immigrants?

[MultiTroll]

Looks like the shelters were at capacity and ICE was overwhelmed. How many hotel rooms did you rent out for the illegal immigrants?

“We’re hoping to be able to call family in Tennessee,” she said in Spanish. “But so far we haven’t heard anything. They just dropped us off without” any guidance. The pair traveled for a month by bus from Honduras before arriving in Ciudad Juárez, Mexico, before they crossed the Rio Grande and turned themselves in.

[MultiTroll]

Trump border security in action: ICE dumps hundreds of migrants at a Greyhound station in El Paso Sunday night without telling anyone.
Same question as Chris. Lets hear the Winehole action for these illegal immigrants.


“We’re hoping to be able to call family in Tennessee,” she said in Spanish. “But so far we haven’t heard anything. They just dropped us off without” any guidance. The pair traveled for a month by bus from Honduras before arriving in Ciudad Juárez, Mexico, before they crossed the Rio Grande and turned themselves in.

[ducks]

https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/48360561_2054803737901826_8248484868061659136_n.jp g?_nc_cat=1&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&oh=d97610fb595ea75debea476bc78d65dc&oe=5CCCD117

[ducks]

Same question as Chris. Lets hear the Winehole action for these illegal immigrants.


“We’re hoping to be able to call family in Tennessee,” she said in Spanish. “But so far we haven’t heard anything. They just dropped us off without” any guidance. The pair traveled for a month by bus from Honduras before arriving in Ciudad Juárez, Mexico, before they crossed the Rio Grande and turned themselves in.
Cry me a river
You came here claiming at you legal residents your treated worse
You should be thrown to outside the country

[ElNono]

Looks like the shelters were at capacity and ICE was overwhelmed. How many hotel rooms did you rent out for the illegal immigrants?

How much are we spending on the military dog and pony show at the border while at the same time releasing illlegals in-country?

[FrostKing]

How much are we spending on the military dog and pony show at the border while at the same time releasing illlegals in-country?
Papa Soros gonna start upgrading the african boats to sail across the Atlantic

[ElNono]

Papa Soros gonna start upgrading the african boats to sail across the Atlantic

tbh, you keep bringing this up but that’s not really a solution is it? Let’s pretend for a second we pull an Israel, grab a piece of Africa, call it Wakanda, give them billions of dollars every year, arm them with nukes and side with them on any geopolitical issue.

I don’t think you’ll be ok with that arrangement either, tbh

[CosmicCowboy]

ICE should bus them all to New York and dump them in front of Chuck Schumers house.

[Spurs Homer]

Trump settling for a beaded curtain according to pres pelosi

[MultiTroll]

How much are we spending on the military dog and pony show at the border while at the same time releasing illlegals in-country?
We should all be able to agree the way politicians spend (waste) money in every country is a disgusting joke.

[Winehole23]

Normally, ICE gives the shelters a heads up. That didn't happen. A little communication goes a long way -- if local shelters were full up reinforcement might be summoned from elsewhere with a little lead time

What ICE did puts the lie to the claim that migrants are too dangerous to admit and that catch and release isn't the policy anymore.

[CosmicCowboy]

A quick google search of homeless statistics comes up with approximately 1400 full time homeless in El Paso including over 300 children. Why don't they get the same bleeding heart attention from the media as the illegal aliens in El Paso?

[Winehole23]

whataboutism.

you don't care about homeless people in El Paso or anywhere else, CC.

[CosmicCowboy]

whataboutism.

you don't care about homeless people in El Paso or anywhere else, CC.

At least I don't hypocritically pretend to care by posting about it in a sports forum.

[Winehole23]

a quick Google news search turns up dozens of news items about homelessness in the USA within the last week.

CC's whataboutism fails at inception.

[Winehole23]

At least I don't hypocritically pretend to care by posting about it in a sports forum.^^^virtue signalling

[CosmicCowboy]

^^^virtue signalling

LOL. Like pretending to give a shit about voluntarily temporarily homeless illegal aliens?

[boutons_deux]

I posted an article several days ago that the shelters were 98% full.

Does the Trash temper-tantrum shutdown stop funds that would build new shelters?

[koriwhat]

Trump border security in action: ICE dumps hundreds of migrants at a Greyhound station in El Paso Sunday night without telling anyone.

1077380247065186304

boo fucking hoo...


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvR_r4bVYAETBR5.jpg

shit's sad no matter how you spin it but it would've never happened had that kids parents not endangered their own child. stay in your own country and build it up or take asylum in mx when presented with the chance. fuck the left trying to tug on the heart strings of our nation for their own greedy future.


:lol that you think your cuckbacks are creating a "free rent" scenario.

lmao cuckbacks!!!


At least I don't hypocritically pretend to care by posting about it in a sports forum.

fucking truth!

[Winehole23]

LOL. Like pretending to give a shit about voluntarily temporarily homeless illegal aliens?our shitty treatment of migrants does bother me.

[koriwhat]

our shitty treatment of migrants does bother me.

have you done anything about it except whine here whinehole? lol

[Trill Clinton]

How should businesses who hire illegals be dealt with? They'd stop coming illegaly if they couldn't find work.

[CosmicCowboy]

How should businesses who hire illegals be dealt with? They'd stop coming illegaly if they couldn't find work.

Totally agree.

[Winehole23]

have you done anything about it except whine here whinehole? lolYeah, i voted against Republican dickheads and I will again.

I'll also continue to spread the word here. Talking isn't a solution, but it's not nothing either.

What's discussed can make a difference. What isn't discussed usually gets ignored.

[koriwhat]

Yeah, i voted against Republican dickheads and I will again.

I'll also continue to spread the word here. Talking isn't a solution, but it's not nothing either.

What's discussed can make a difference. What isn't discussed usually gets ignored.

yeah but what exactly have YOU done personally besides voting and virtue signaling? same as the celebs, not a god damn thing!

thoughts & prayers...

[Winehole23]

what are you doing to stop illegal immigration, ISIS, MS-13 and the spread of exotic tropical diseases?

[koriwhat]

what are you doing to stop illegal immigration, ISIS, MS-13 and the spread of exotic tropical diseases?

i'm doing nothing and not virtue signaling at the same time as you do. lmao! i just think it's ridiculous you don't want our laws enforced but you do nothing to help those you cry so much over. it's the same with 99% of those just like you.

[Winehole23]

saying you're not virtue signalling is virtue signalling.

somehow, you think it's more authentic not to care than to care.

my opinion is that it depends. neither is necessarily more "real" than the other.

[Winehole23]

to steal a capper from Harry Frankfurt, sincerity is bullshit.

http://www2.csudh.edu/ccauthen/576f12/frankfurt__harry_-_on_bullshit.pdf

[rmt]

I don't hear the same amount of concern for and/or complaining (on this board) about the American homeless as for these illegal aliens.

[Winehole23]

it's not a refutation of one complaint to point out that something else isn't being complained about at the same time.

btw, do you think the lives and livelihoods of born natives are intrinsically more valuable than others?

why or why not?

[Winehole23]

I can repost my own homelessness related threads/posts, if that's a personal request.

[rmt]

Is it because eg our local Miami Rescue Mission is religiously oriented and the govt (migrant) is not?:

Core Values
Restoration is to regain that which was lost; to become healthy and whole again—physically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and socially. As servants of Christ in the world, The Caring Place (Miami Rescue Mission | Broward Outreach Centers) provides resources and a restorative environment that supports those on the path to health and stability.Restoration is to regain that which was lost; to become healthy and whole again—physically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and socially. As servants of Christ in the world, the Miami Rescue Mission provides resources and a restorative environment that supports those on the path to health and stability.

http://www.miamirescuemission.com/about

[Winehole23]

that all sounds fine, no objection here :tu

[rmt]

it's not a refutation of one complaint to point out that something else isn't being complained about at the same time.

btw, do you think the lives and livelihoods of born natives are intrinsically more valuable than others?

why or why not?

I think our (especially GOVERNMENT) resources should go FIRST to the care of OUR born natives before those of other countries. See it like a family - gotta take care of your OWN before others.

[Winehole23]

I see it more as a both/and. There's no scarcity of resources in the USA.

[koriwhat]

saying you're not virtue signalling is virtue signalling.

somehow, you think it's more authentic not to care than to care.

my opinion is that it depends. neither is necessarily more "real" than the other.

lmao trying to down play your bs virtue signaling by projecting that bs onto me. i'm not the one crying for more mouths to feed.


I don't hear the same amount of concern for and/or complaining (on this board) about the American homeless as for these illegal aliens.

and you won't because these same hacks roll their windows up, look the other way, and utter insults towards the homeless citizens of our society within our nation. it's all bs virtue signaling by those who won't lift a finger to help.


btw, do you think the lives and livelihoods of born natives are intrinsically more valuable than others?

life is as important as life... now if we are talking whether or not the citizen should be taken care of over the illegal then 10 out of 10 yes! sorry but not sorry. the illegal has their own country they can go back to and seek help from. what don't you understand? they're illegal and have no rights here and shouldn't be offered a damn thing but a bus ticket back home.

[Winehole23]

How to solve homelessness?

Be more like Salt lake City. Provide housing for homeless people.

Believe it or not, Salt Lake City has saved money that way.

https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chronic-homelessness-by-91-percent-heres-how

[koriwhat]

I see it more as a both/and. There's no scarcity of resources in the USA.

wgaf how many resources we have? they're for our citizens and not those entering illegally.

[Winehole23]

sorry, man, we're responsible for folks we detain.

[Winehole23]

life is as important as life... now if we are talking whether or not the citizen should be taken care of over the illegal then 10 out of 10 yes! sorry but not sorry. the illegal has their own country they can go back to and seek help from. what don't you understand? they're illegal and have no rights here and shouldn't be offered a damn thing but a bus ticket back home.you're wrong about that.

under US law they have the right to ask for asylum regardless of how they entered the country.

[koriwhat]

sorry, man, we're responsible for folks we detain.

that needs to change... no need to detain when you can give a swift kick to their ass and push them back over the border line.

[koriwhat]

you're wrong about that.

under US law they have the right to ask for asylum regardless of how they entered the country.

time to change that broken law since it's been abused for way too long now.

[Winehole23]

one wonders why Republicans didn't change the law while they had a chance. maybe they didn't care about illegal immigration as much as they pretend to.

[koriwhat]

one wonders why Republicans didn't change the law while they had a chance. maybe they didn't care about illegal immigration as much as they pretend to.

possibly. i don't know the inner workings of snakes tbh. they're all snakes on both sides of the aisle.

[Chris]

saying you're not virtue signalling is virtue signalling.

somehow, you think it's more authentic not to care than to care.

my opinion is that it depends. neither is necessarily more "real" than the other.

Facts don't care about your feelings snowflake.

[Winehole23]

what facts, snowflake?

[Blake]

have you done anything about it except whine here whinehole? lol

Asks one of the bigger bitchy whiners here

[Blake]

Facts don't care about your feelings snowflake.

Lol says dude that constantly posts fake news

[Chris]

Lol says dude that constantly posts fake news

What fake news have I posted ITT or even recently? Are you going to keep up this kind of churlish behavior through 2019?

[Pavlov]

What fake news have I posted ITT or even recently? Are you going to keep up this kind of churlish behavior through 2019?You've posted enough to have a reputation.

[Blake]

What fake news have I posted ITT or even recently? Are you going to keep up this kind of churlish behavior through 2019?

Lol but but whatabout "recently"

You'll be posting fake news in 2019, dipshit.

[Chris]

Lol but but whatabout "recently"

You'll be posting fake news in 2019, dipshit.

Lol "constantly posting"

[Blake]

Lol "constantly posting"

Yup it's sad tbh. You're sad tbh.

[Spurtacular]

You've posted enough to have a reputation.

:lol What do you think your reputation is?

[ElNono]

I don't hear the same amount of concern for and/or complaining (on this board) about the American homeless as for these illegal aliens.

Maybe because the thread is called Border Security?

I’m pretty sure there was just as much concern in relevant threads.

Spoiler: blaming the victim has worked as well there.

[Chris]

Yup it's sad tbh. You're sad tbh.

It's sad that you can't back up any of your wild assertions.

[Winehole23]

What's it like in la hielera?

https://www.thecut.com/amp/2018/12/what-are-las-hieleras-iceboxes-used-by-cbp-at-the-border.html

[Blake]

It's sad that you can't back up any of your wild assertions.

Lol "wild"

[CosmicCowboy]

So the general opinion in here is that economic migrants "searching for a better life" are OK even if they are uneducated, illiterate, and don't speak English.

So if we completely disregard that they are entering illegally, what is an appropriate annual number that we should allow in? 100,000? A million? Ten Million? 50 million? After all, they are just innocent economic migrants seeking a better life.

[boutons_deux]

https://rewire.news/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/GettyImages-988398696-740x525.jpg

[ElNono]

So the general opinion in here is that economic migrants "searching for a better life" are OK even if they are uneducated, illiterate, and don't speak English.

So if we completely disregard that they are entering illegally, what is an appropriate annual number that we should allow in? 100,000? A million? Ten Million? 50 million? After all, they are just innocent economic migrants seeking a better life.

I think you’re missing the point entirely by focusing on trying to pin point exact numbers, or qualifications. If we can agree this is primarily an economics problem, then we should be able to discern that the job market will dictate how many of those people will get jobs and an opportunity to improve their situation, and how many of those people are simply going to turn back and go home back to their families (a phenomenon barely talked about, but that also happens).

There’s other non-economic concerns that are completely legitimate too, like securing our border from bad actors, or the fact that illegals clog and make unfair an already bureaucratic and expensive system for legal immigrants. Those are serious concerns that need to be addressed, with both better border security and an integral immigration reform.

Then there’s the war on drugs making securing the border clearly more complicated, the abuses on the current legal visa system, etc. Clearly this is an area that requires a lot of thought because the problem is complicated and the solution requires more than some sort of silver bullet.

[CosmicCowboy]

I think you’re missing the point entirely by focusing on trying to pin point exact numbers, or qualifications. If we can agree this is primarily an economics problem, then we should be able to discern that the job market will dictate how many of those people will get jobs and an opportunity to improve their situation, and how many of those people are simply going to turn back and go home back to their families (a phenomenon barely talked about, but that also happens).

There’s other non-economic concerns that are completely legitimate too, like securing our border from bad actors, or the fact that illegals clog and make unfair an already bureaucratic and expensive system for legal immigrants. Those are serious concerns that need to be addressed, with both better border security and an integral immigration reform.

Then there’s the war on drugs making securing the border clearly more complicated, the abuses on the current legal visa system, etc. Clearly this is an area that requires a lot of thought because the problem is complicated and the solution requires more than some sort of silver bullet.

Actually, I was pointing out the fallacy of the majority opinion of this forum that "these poor illegal immigrants are just coming here for a better life". I agree with you that the situation is much more complicated.

The majority opinion in the forum however is that economic immigration is fine. I was asking the proponents at what scale is it NOT fine?