The Wal-Martization of America

[Nbadan]

Wal-Mart Memo Suggests Ways to Cut Employee Benefit Costs


An internal memo sent to Wal-Mart's board of directors proposes numerous ways to hold down spending on health care and other benefits while seeking to minimize damage to the retailer's reputation. Among the recommendations are hiring more part-time workers and discouraging unhealthy people from working at Wal-Mart.

In the memorandum, M. Susan Chambers, Wal-Mart's executive vice president for benefits, also recommends reducing 401(k) contributions and wooing younger, and presumably healthier, workers by offering education benefits. The memo voices concern that workers with seven years' seniority earn more than workers with one year's seniority, but are no more productive.

To discourage unhealthy job applicants, Ms. Chambers suggests that Wal-Mart arrange for "all jobs to include some physical activity (e.g., all cashiers do some cart-gathering)."

The memo acknowledged that Wal-Mart, the world's largest retailer, had to walk a fine line in restraining benefit costs because critics had attacked it for being stingy on wages and health coverage. Ms. Chambers acknowledged that 46 percent of the children of Wal-Mart's 1.33 million United States employees were uninsured or on Medicaid.

NY Times (http://nytimes.com/2005/10/26/business/26walmart.ready.html?hp&ex=1130299200&en=4dc7b3ba14cd801a&ei=5094&partner=homepage)

If 46% of Wal-Mart employees with families are either uninsured or on Medicaid, if they get hurt or sick, this burden eventually falls on taxpayers like you and I. So in a way you could say that the medicare program which so many Republican confess to detest daily here, is really a corporate-subsidy to rich corporations like Wal-Mart so that they don't have to pay employees a living wage or benefits.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I like Wal-Mart

[SpursWoman]

Perhaps if there weren't so many frivilous medical lawsuits health insurance as it stands wouldn't be as cost-prohibitive, therefore much easier to insure or better insure more of their employees. :spin

[Marcus Bryant]

The flip side is that a by product of Wal-Mart trying to run such a lean operation is that it helps to keep the cost of living lower for the masses. Worrying solely about job and job benefits is the stuff of unions. We've seen how catering to that mentality has paid off for Detroit.

[Nbadan]

:rolleyes

Yes, continue to blame the employees, but we've all seen how bad corporate decision making at the top by golden parachuters and unrestrained corporate greed, compiled with a complete lack of governmental action will affect employee wages and benefits in Detriot...


If Delphi Corp. has its way, workers for the nation's largest auto parts supplier would be paid as little as $9 per hour under 65% wage cuts, and be hit with a tenfold increase in health-care costs, no dental and vision care and other sharp reductions in benefits, according to a proposal revealed on the Web site of a UAW local.


The document shows for the first time the severity of the cuts the bankrupt company has told the union it needs to survive.


The cuts are even stiffer than the company's final proposal to the union before it filed for Chapter 11 on Oct. 8, further infuriating workers already angered by the threats to their livelihood.


"How in the hell do they expect anybody to live?" asked Andy Loughran, a 54-year-old Delphi worker from Dayton, Ohio. "You think you're going to get a good quality product at $9 an hour?"

Link (http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/delphi26e_20051026.htm)

[Marcus Bryant]

Ha. Exec pay is a drop in the bucket in comparision to those benefits. In addition those union salaries and benefits, in an industry with tremendous competition, are what is pushing GM ever closer to the edge. It's hard to compete when your cost structure is significantly greater than that of your competitors.

Stop wasting this forum's time.

[MannyIsGod]

Perhaps if there weren't so many frivilous medical lawsuits health insurance as it stands wouldn't be as cost-prohibitive, therefore much easier to insure or better insure more of their employees. :spin
What? How are lawsuits driving up the price of health insurance?

[Yonivore]

What? How are lawsuits driving up the price of health insurance?
Product liability, malpractice, and intellectual property (prescription patent) lawsuits.

Next question.

[Useruser666]

What? How are lawsuits driving up the price of health insurance?

Should I laugh with that, or explain how "frivilous" lawsuits cost everyone money?

[MannyIsGod]

Should I laugh or should I explain to you how "frivilous" lawsuits are the most overblow problem regarding anytype of health insurance?

You want to look at the reason why health insurance premiums are high and you can point at bad business practices coupled with people's over use of the medical system. You can also throw in the AMA as a reason that medical prices are overinflated.

[Nbadan]

Ha. Exec pay is a drop in the bucket in comparision to those benefits. In addition those union salaries and benefits, in an industry with tremendous competition, are what is pushing GM ever closer to the edge. It's hard to compete when your cost structure is significantly greater than that of your competitors.

Stop wasting this forum's time.

:rolleyes

Yes, it's much more expensive for a successful, forward-looking company like Toyota to build a Tundra in the U.S. than it would be to build it in Japan and ship it over.

Next.

[xrayzebra]

Wal-Mart Memo Suggests Ways to Cut Employee Benefit Costs



NY Times (http://nytimes.com/2005/10/26/business/26walmart.ready.html?hp&ex=1130299200&en=4dc7b3ba14cd801a&ei=5094&partner=homepage)

If 46% of Wal-Mart employees with families are either uninsured or on Medicaid, if they get hurt or sick, this burden eventually falls on taxpayers like you and I. So in a way you could say that the medicare program which so many Republican confess to detest daily here, is really a corporate-subsidy to rich corporations like Wal-Mart so that they don't have to pay employees a living wage or benefits.

Dan continues to quote a newspaper that has been proven to be wrong in so many stories. Who is now throwing overboard one it's own reporters overboard. And as usual trashes someone who makes money and employs many workers who were taken from the concertratation camps of America.

[xrayzebra]

Product liability, malpractice, and intellectual property (prescription patent) lawsuits.

Next question.


Yoni, I will go you one better, how bout the damn lawyers that solicit lawsuits that cause drug companies to withdraw drugs which the patients want, that relieve their pain and suffering. But are forced to withdraw because they would bankrupt the company if left on the market.

[Marcus Bryant]

:rolleyes

Yes, it's much more expensive for a successful, forward-looking company like Toyota to build a Tundra in the U.S. than it would be to build it in Japan and ship it over.

Next.


Ha. Any guess as to why Toyota and other auto makers of foreign origin with US operations are able to make it work?

Try again.

[MannyIsGod]

Yoni, I will go you one better, how bout the damn lawyers that solicit lawsuits that cause drug companies to withdraw drugs which the patients want, that relieve their pain and suffering. But are forced to withdraw because they would bankrupt the company if left on the market. How about the drug companies that solicit doctors to prescribe medications the patient doesn't need that brings an added cost to the insurace companies as well as over medicating patients which then lead to lawsuits?

[Marcus Bryant]

Malpractice insurance is a factor in health care inflation. But the major factor is that the American consumer pays for routine health care services and medications through insurance. If you are getting something worth $100 that you pay $20 for, well, it isn't rocket science as to what the effect on demand is going to be.

Bush's Medicare pharmaceuticals giveaway certainly didn't help things, either.

[xrayzebra]

How about the drug companies that solicit doctors to prescribe medications the patient doesn't need that brings an added cost to the insurace companies as well as over medicating patients which then lead to lawsuits?

You know Manny you are an intelligent person, of that I have no doubt, but knowing what someone goes thru with a disese that makes them almost lost to the human race, you have no idea. Drug companies do tell doctors about drugs and show them results of their studies. Drugs companies also take care of patients, which I am sure you have no idea about. You only know what the media tells you. I want you to do me a favor. Look up two things:
the drug tysabri and MS. Also you can look up the the company biogen. And one other thing I will let you talk to someone who has suffered the consequences of lawyers in regards to those things. Like having someone soliciting you to sue a company and then more or less cursing you for not suing because you tell them you want the drug and hope it comes back soon. You make me very angry sometimes, because you have no idea what life is really like.

[MannyIsGod]

Malpractice insurance is a factor in health care inflation. But the major factor is that the American consumer pays for routine health care services and medications through insurance. If you are getting something worth $100 that you pay $20 for, well, it isn't rocket science as to what the effect on demand is going to be.

Bush's Medicare pharmaceuticals giveaway certainly didn't help things, either.
WE HAVE A WINNER!

Abuse of the system skyrockets when you have insurance policies that promise so much for so little. People go to the doctor for things they could cure over the counter because its cheap. This inturn raises costs, which in turn raises premiums.

Thats a pretty generic run down, but its also fairly accurate as to why you continously see premiums go farther up. You also see a reduction in the quality of service.

[MannyIsGod]

You know Manny you are an intelligent person, of that I have no doubt, but knowing what someone goes thru with a disese that makes them almost lost to the human race, you have no idea. Drug companies do tell doctors about drugs and show them results of their studies. Drugs companies also take care of patients, which I am sure you have no idea about. You only know what the media tells you. I want you to do me a favor. Look up two things:
the drug tysabri and MS. Also you can look up the the company biogen. And one other thing I will let you talk to someone who has suffered the consequences of lawyers in regards to those things. Like having someone soliciting you to sue a company and then more or less cursing you for not suing because you tell them you want the drug and hope it comes back soon. You make me very angry sometimes, because you have no idea what life is really like.
I'm sure there are drugs that should be on the market that aren't because of legal complications, but much of that is also due to drugs that make it onto the market and shoudln't be. When you have a drug like Vioxx that never should have been approved and was, it causes lawyers to seek out other drugs they can make money on.

Of that I have no doubts.

However, that is a problem that drug companies share a large responsiblity for. These companies are leading to the overmedication of our country because they remove doctors as an objective party when they put them on their payroll. The doctors agenda's then change from only your health to moving that particular drug as well.

It is a very complicated system but there are far more justified lawsuits than frivilous ones. When you start to limit the effectiveness of lawsuits you put patients in a higher state of danger.

[SpursWoman]

Should I laugh or should I explain to you how "frivilous" lawsuits are the most overblow problem regarding anytype of health insurance?

You want to look at the reason why health insurance premiums are high and you can point at bad business practices coupled with people's over use of the medical system. You can also throw in the AMA as a reason that medical prices are overinflated.


It was semi-tongue-in-cheek, but not entirely.

1. Frivilous malpractice lawsuit filed.
2. Doctor's insurance premiums rise.
3. Doctors have to raise prices to still make a living after said premium increases.
4. Patients are still only paying a $10 - $20 co-pay, so cost to health insurance companies go up.
5. Health insurance companies have to raise their premiums to cover increase benefit submissions from doctors.
6. Rinse, repeat.


Edit: Sorry....I hadn't finished reading the thread. I think all of the hypochondriacs and their piddly little $10 copay's of the world are mostly responsible, FWIW.

[SpursWoman]

I'm sure there are drugs that should be on the market that aren't because of legal complications, but much of that is also due to drugs that make it onto the market and shoudln't be. When you have a drug like Vioxx that never should have been approved and was, it causes lawyers to seek out other drugs they can make money on.


Thanks for reminding me, btw ... my mom took that and this attorney is hounding me to get into the class action suit. I forgot all about it. :fro

[xrayzebra]

WE HAVE A WINNER!

Abuse of the system skyrockets when you have insurance policies that promise so much for so little. People go to the doctor for things they could cure over the counter because its cheap. This inturn raises costs, which in turn raises premiums.

Thats a pretty generic run down, but its also fairly accurate as to why you continously see premiums go farther up. You also see a reduction in the quality of service.


So your argument is: universal health care would not be a good thing? People should just take care of themselves. Of course this is a NEOCOM argument. I am not in favor of universal health care, I have seen the results of this. But an individual taking health care from a private provider is their decision. I will agree on one thing, doctors and health care providers do inflate their prices (fees) so they can justify raising their fees at a later date. But they don't necessarily get the increase, except when it comes to government. Private insurers will tell them to go suck a lemon. Government causes many increases in many things. The media does the same. How? By simply talking it up so people expect and the companies see a way to increase the price. Happens every day. And then you have futures market, but we will got there at a later time.

[Yonivore]

We didn't even get into the effects that Medicare and Medicaid have on health care costs -- not just the fraud, abuse, and waste but also the legitimate uses that devalue the costs of medicine at the expense of those who pay out of pocket or who have insurance.

Health care is expensive for a whole bunch of reasons that have little to do with the actual cost of delivering health care.

[MannyIsGod]

So your argument is: universal health care would not be a good thing? People should just take care of themselves. Of course this is a NEOCOM argument. I am not in favor of universal health care, I have seen the results of this. But an individual taking health care from a private provider is their decision. I will agree on one thing, doctors and health care providers do inflate their prices (fees) so they can justify raising their fees at a later date. But they don't necessarily get the increase, except when it comes to government. Private insurers will tell them to go suck a lemon. Government causes many increases in many things. The media does the same. How? By simply talking it up so people expect and the companies see a way to increase the price. Happens every day. And then you have futures market, but we will got there at a later time.
I have never in my life thought of supporting government provided health care. It is a horrible situation. I would argue it isn't a NeoCon position though. Bush has passed more governemnt healthcare legislation. It is a libertarian position, but more importantly it is MY position. :lol

Just and FYI, the prices you seen on a bill and the price an insurance company pays are 2 different things. If you ever have to pay for medical services, offer immediate payment in exchange for a discount and see where it gets you. You might be pleasntly suprised.

[SpursWoman]

Just and FYI, the prices you seen on a bill and the price an insurance company pays are 2 different things. If you ever have to pay for medical services, offer immediate payment in exchange for a discount and see where it gets you. You might be pleasntly suprised.

I learned that lesson myself when I was presented with the detailed portion of the bill from the hospital that my insurance didn't cover when my daughter was born. When I had a fit and told them if they thought I was going to pay $12 for a trial sized box of baby wipes they could kiss my ass, we were able to work out a little something better for my portion of the bill.

:lol

[Guru of Nothing]

These companies are leading to the overmedication of our country because they remove doctors as an objective party when they put them on their payroll. The doctors agenda's then change from only your health to moving that particular drug as well.

That's a no-shitter!

People want their doctors to STFU and prescribe them a pill; and doctors, they want their patients to STFU, take a pill, and move out of the way for the next patient.

[Yonivore]

I learned that lesson myself when I was presented with the detailed portion of the bill from the hospital that my insurance didn't cover when my daughter was born. When I had a fit and told them if they thought I was going to pay $12 for a trial sized box of baby wipes they could kiss my ass, we were able to work out a little something better for my portion of the bill.

:lol
I like the "kiss my ass" counter offer. ;)

[Marcus Bryant]

So your argument is: universal health care would not be a good thing? People should just take care of themselves. Of course this is a NEOCOM argument. I am not in favor of universal health care, I have seen the results of this. But an individual taking health care from a private provider is their decision. I will agree on one thing, doctors and health care providers do inflate their prices (fees) so they can justify raising their fees at a later date. But they don't necessarily get the increase, except when it comes to government. Private insurers will tell them to go suck a lemon. Government causes many increases in many things. The media does the same. How? By simply talking it up so people expect and the companies see a way to increase the price. Happens every day. And then you have futures market, but we will got there at a later time.


Bush has pushed us in the direction of greater socialized health care delivery.

[MannyIsGod]

I learned that lesson myself when I was presented with the detailed portion of the bill from the hospital that my insurance didn't cover when my daughter was born. When I had a fit and told them if they thought I was going to pay $12 for a trial sized box of baby wipes they could kiss my ass, we were able to work out a little something better for my portion of the bill.

:lol
When I was an active agent it was so hard selling my policies at times because they were no shit this is what you're going to get policies that cut out a lot of the adminitrative bullshit that raises costs.

Well, it was hard because people didn't trust you that there was an ability there to get hte prices lowered signficantly and they were all paranoid about having a 2 million dollar hospital bill.

There is so much paranoia surrounding medical issues becuase politicians love to create a 'crisis' they can 'solve' with their legislation.

[MannyIsGod]

That's a no-shitter!

People want their doctors to STFU and prescribe them a pill; and doctors, they want their patients to STFU, take a pill, and move out of the way for the next patient.
Yes, my mothers doctor pissed me off recently. She tested for an enlarged heart and the her doctors first reaction was to put her on some medication and telling her "you will be on this for life".

My mother has slight calcium build up in her arteries, but it isn't bad by any means. She is much better served by watching her diet - especially when you consider we have a family history of diabetics so this could kill 2 birds with one stone. She began taking the medication and was feeling much worse than prior to taking it so she stopped. The name escapes me right now, or else I'd post it as well.

Well, I was pissed when I heard the doctors comments and forced her to get a 2nd opinion. Sure enough, the 2nd doctor put her on a better diet and my mother has felt 2042098230820830928302983 times better since then.

[xrayzebra]

I'm sure there are drugs that should be on the market that aren't because of legal complications, but much of that is also due to drugs that make it onto the market and shoudln't be. When you have a drug like Vioxx that never should have been approved and was, it causes lawyers to seek out other drugs they can make money on.

Of that I have no doubts.

However, that is a problem that drug companies share a large responsiblity for. These companies are leading to the overmedication of our country because they remove doctors as an objective party when they put them on their payroll. The doctors agenda's then change from only your health to moving that particular drug as well.

It is a very complicated system but there are far more justified lawsuits than frivilous ones. When you start to limit the effectiveness of lawsuits you put patients in a higher state of danger.

Okay, some figures:

Aspirin kills more than 580 Americans each month.

9.8 Million prescriptions for Vioxx. Using the critics claim of 27,785 vioxx users died.T he percentile of non-lethal users was 99.7 percent.

Cardiac catheterization is only 99.8 non-lethal

Tysabri which I cited in the original post had 8,000 users, three developed a rare neurological ailment call PML, Two died. It (Tysabri) was 99.9729 percent non-lethal. (I might add lawyers were on the phone immediately soliciting suits).

Again I state, look in the yellow pages, on TV, or just have an accident and see how many lawyers call to "protect" your rights for injury. Of course I hope you don't hold you breath for any money, cause their expenses plus 40 percent will take most of it, and blue isn't my favorite color. Also the media cannot wait to jump on the big bad drug companies for selling drugs that kill people just to make money. Give me a break.

Also, should we take Aspirin off the market, it seems to kill a lot of people like almost 7000 a year.

[Clandestino]

medicaid hurts society..

true story... i talked to my grandma this morning.. she said she had to go to the hospital bc she was in a lot of pain for her arthritis. she said she called the ambulance to go get her.. i said, "what? why the ambulance?" she said she didn't want to have to wake up my dad, uncle, or any of the other relatives who live within 3 miles of her!!! she said and since she is on medicaid it doesn't cost her anything!!!

that is the problem with government healthcare and bullshit like that.. .people abuse it..

[SpursWoman]

I like the "kiss my ass" counter offer. ;)


:lol :makeout

[xrayzebra]

Yes, my mothers doctor pissed me off recently. She tested for an enlarged heart and the her doctors first reaction was to put her on some medication and telling her "you will be on this for life".

My mother has slight calcium build up in her arteries, but it isn't bad by any means. She is much better served by watching her diet - especially when you consider we have a family history of diabetics so this could kill 2 birds with one stone. She began taking the medication and was feeling much worse than prior to taking it so she stopped. The name escapes me right now, or else I'd post it as well.

Well, I was pissed when I heard the doctors comments and forced her to get a 2nd opinion. Sure enough, the 2nd doctor put her on a better diet and my mother has felt 2042098230820830928302983 times better since then.

So manny, is the drug companies at fault here, or the doctor who prescribed the drug. You did the right thing, had her see a doctor who was a doctor. I wonder sometimes, should we ban doctors or the universities who graduate them. I would hope myself and others would choose the right doctor. My doctor and I have many discussions about drugs, now who would have thunk it, my doctors know what I think, and I respect their opinions, because I know what they think.

[xrayzebra]

I like the "kiss my ass" counter offer. ;)

Funny how this phrase works for many businesses as well as hospitals, especially when they know they are dealing with someone who really knows what is going on and they are getting ripped off.

[Yonivore]

Funny how this phrase works for many businesses as well as hospitals, especially when they know they are dealing with someone who really knows what is going on and they are getting ripped off.
Nah, I'd just like to kiss SW's ass. It's a more attractive offer than payment as far as I'm concerned. :elephant

[SpursWoman]

9.8 Million prescriptions for Vioxx. Using the critics claim of 27,785 vioxx users died.T he percentile of non-lethal users was 99.7 percent.


My mother took Vioxx right up until they took it off the shelves. A few months later she suffered a stroke, had brain surgury, and suffered another stroke within hours of that that the doctors could not explain. She died at the ripe old age of 61 in otherwise great health. I'm trying to figure out what your point is....is it that my brother and I should have no recourse for losing our mother about 25 years too soon?

How is death frivilous? That wasn't the type of lawsuits I was talking about. :wtf

[SpursWoman]

Nah, I'd just like to kiss SW's ass. It's a more attractive offer than payment as far as I'm concerned. :elephant



:oops :angel :lol

[Clandestino]

sue.. everyone else is..

[SpursWoman]

sue.. everyone else is..

Even the (original) Coyote...but at least he's still alive. I wonder how much he'll get? :fro

The bad part is, up until recently the thought never entered my mind to do so...that was the only thing she was ever given for her arthritis that made it actually stop hurting, and she was inconsolable the day she couldn't get it anymore. So why would I sue? Sometimes it was the only way she could make it through the day.

Now I'm thinking why not? Everyone else is...and I could probably get more because there was an actual death. And I still think to do it is shitty.

[MannyIsGod]

I think Merck needs to pay and pay a lot. I hope you sue and I hope you get a good settlement out of it.

[Clandestino]

Even the (original) Coyote...but at least he's still alive. I wonder how much he'll get? :fro

The bad part is, up until recently the thought never entered my mind to do so...that was the only thing she was ever given for her arthritis that made it actually stop hurting, and she was inconsolable the day she couldn't get it anymore. So why would I sue? Sometimes it was the only way she could make it through the day.

Now I'm thinking why not? Everyone else is...and I could probably get more because there was an actual death. And I still think to do it is shitty.

it won't bring her back, but it will still help you and your family out... it may not have even caused her death, but i think you should at least try. she may be up in heaven saying, "god damn it spurswoman! go get that fucking money!"

[MannyIsGod]

:lol @ Her mother calling her Spurswoman.

[SpursWoman]

it won't bring her back, but it will still help you and your family out... it may not have even caused her death, but i think you should at least try. she may be up in heaven saying, "god damn it spurswoman! go get that fucking money!"


That's exactly what she'd say..."WTF is wrong with you ... you can fix the fucking A/C in that house and put those goddamn kids through college...I'd probably end up paying for that shit anyway! :cuss :cuss :flipoff Call Abe, and bring me my checkbook."

:lmao

[Clandestino]

well, then, it's settled, call a lawyer today!

[RandomGuy]

medicaid hurts society..

that is the problem with government healthcare and bullshit like that.. .people abuse it..


The cost of abuse is MUCH less than the cost of denying people access to health care.

This is a bit like saying "some of our soldiers at Abu Ghraib did bad things, let's get rid of our military".

I can accept a bit of abuse as unavoidable. Take steps to mitigate it, but in the end medicaid does more many times more good than bad, morally and economically.

[Yonivore]

The cost of abuse is MUCH less than the cost of denying people access to health care.

This is a bit like saying "some of our soldiers at Abu Ghraib did bad things, let's get rid of our military".

I can accept a bit of abuse as unavoidable. Take steps to mitigate it, but in the end medicaid does more many times more good than bad, morally and economically.
Some reports claim that as much as 1 in 3 dollars is wasted through fraud and abuse. If a third of our military were corrupt, yeah...we'd need to get rid of it.

[RandomGuy]

Some reports claim that as much as 1 in 3 dollars is wasted through fraud and abuse. If a third of our military were corrupt, yeah...we'd need to get rid of it.


Ahhh...

The old "some reports claim". Whose reports? I would like to see this data first hand.

I would be willing to bet that the 33% figure is just a *bit* overstated.

[SpursWoman]

The cost of abuse is MUCH less than the cost of denying people access to health care.


I agree to an extent, but here's another example that's not so cut and dried:


I have a friend that was pregnant with her son the exact same time I was pregnant with my daughter. We had about the same household income but one small difference: she declined health care coverage at her job, I accepted mine.

I found out I was pregnant, did all the prenatal stuff...the hospital stuff....natural delivery, very little complications...left the next day with a total paid to doctors & hospitals of about $2,000, on top of the premiums I paid for my coverage.

My friend found out she was pregnant, ran down to the medicaid office and got emergency coverage or some weird-sounding shit like that ...did the prenatal thing...but had a breech baby that required a C-Section and a 5 day hospital stay...walked out having to pay not a single CENT.

Is that fair? Or am I just stupid for not letting someone else foot my bills?


Of couse, when my son was 6 months old and I had switched jobs and was only without insurance for 90 days ... he ended up in the hospital for a week with bronchilitis. Do you think I got the weird sounding emergency medicaid shit? Hell no, I got a $12,000 hospital bill. So I'm jaded and bitter about public welfare, so take my responses with a grain of salt. :fro

[Clandestino]

crazy shit!

[SpursWoman]

I've seen it a million times with my own eyes ... I didn't need to look for a link or some mysterious study. :lol



I've also personally seen people trading Lone Star cards for quarter pounds of weed ... but what do you do?

[xrayzebra]

My mother took Vioxx right up until they took it off the shelves. A few months later she suffered a stroke, had brain surgury, and suffered another stroke within hours of that that the doctors could not explain. She died at the ripe old age of 61 in otherwise great health. I'm trying to figure out what your point is....is it that my brother and I should have no recourse for losing our mother about 25 years too soon?

How is death frivilous? That wasn't the type of lawsuits I was talking about. :wtf

I am not talking frivolous. I am talking about the fact that if you think your mother suffered from taking the drug, then sue. What I am talking about is what about the other people who took the drug and suffered no adverse effects. Should a drug be taken off the market because of the few or kept on the market for the many who suffer no effects and that are helped? I am not making light of the fact you Mom died and you suffered a great lost, but what about 99.7 percent of the people who didn't die? Should they suffer also? Cant a compromise be reached where the patient reaches an educated decision, like many do. These adverse reactions are in many cases known and in some cases not known. Hence, the fact sheets given to all patients when they hand over the drugs. What is wrong with asking the doctor at the time about the drug. I was fortunate, I had a PDR I could look drugs up, and I did, and challenged doctors on what they prescribed.

[xrayzebra]

That's exactly what she'd say..."WTF is wrong with you ... you can fix the fucking A/C in that house and put those goddamn kids through college...I'd probably end up paying for that shit anyway! :cuss :cuss :flipoff Call Abe, and bring me my checkbook."

:lmao


Okay, do me a favor, when you get the suit settled, tell me how much you got out of the suit. The lawyer will love you and you will be scratching your head and saying: I got a million but how come I only got a check for 40 grand. Then look at the sheet he hands you....expense.....expense.....expense....like courier fees, fax fees, hotel rooms, meals, advance money.....on and on and on.....let me know. okay?

[RandomGuy]

I've seen it a million times with my own eyes ... I didn't need to look for a link or some mysterious study. :lol



I've also personally seen people trading Lone Star cards for quarter pounds of weed ... but what do you do?


I don't doubt for a minute these things happen.

BUT

I also don't doubt that if we didn't pay for some of the things we pay for in medicaid et al. that we as a society would be far worse off.

Abuse of the system is a price I am willing to pay, even a fair amount of abuse.

The good far our weighs the bad is all I am saying.

[Useruser666]

http://www.jimadler.com/images/a_jadler.jpg

"You sure I'm not the cause behind increasing costs?"

[Clandestino]

Okay, do me a favor, when you get the suit settled, tell me how much you got out of the suit. The lawyer will love you and you will be scratching your head and saying: I got a million but how come I only got a check for 40 grand. Then look at the sheet he hands you....expense.....expense.....expense....like courier fees, fax fees, hotel rooms, meals, advance money.....on and on and on.....let me know. okay?

that would still be 40k more than she has now!

[Spam]

Wal-Mart sucks ass.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

I've seen white-collared, college degreed folks ripping off the government and getting free rides such as disability payments so get off your high horses.

[SpursWoman]

Okay, do me a favor, when you get the suit settled, tell me how much you got out of the suit. The lawyer will love you and you will be scratching your head and saying: I got a million but how come I only got a check for 40 grand. Then look at the sheet he hands you....expense.....expense.....expense....like courier fees, fax fees, hotel rooms, meals, advance money.....on and on and on.....let me know. okay?


Do you know what the purpose of punitive damages are?


So if you win the $140 million Mega Millions you'd bitch because after taxes you'd only get $84 million?

:lmao

I really don't care what they'd take, that's what they do. If I didn't get anything, neither would they...it's a risk they take. I'm not interested in profitting off any of it, and I don't feel justified getting a cent because I didn't depend on her for financial support. I don't know ... I've been wrestling with it for a while.

[SpursWoman]

I've seen white-collared, college degreed folks ripping off the government and getting free rides such as disability payments so get off your high horses.

I was talking about a white collared individual, Einstein.


And most disability is paid by an employer's worker's comp policy or supplimental policies they purchase themselves...so get off your dumbass horse.

[JoeChalupa]

It's always about the bottom line.

http://www.willowbrookdesigns.com/animations/halloween.gif