Nikola Vucevic and Spurs linked??

[SpursBig3s]

https://fadeawayworld.net/2018/12/31/nba-rumors-celtcs-and-spurs-would-like-to-land-nikola-vucevic/

we we could do a lot worse

[Duncan87]

Already posted

[monty4329]

In a vacuum it sounds good, but this year's Spurs have no need or room for a center like him, albeit an excellent offensive player. We need an athletic rebounder (I am intrigued by the possible buyout of Faried) and a SF.

Unless the idea is to trade LMA.

[DAF86]

I'm gonna stir some mad replays but what the heck. I would do Vucevic for Aldridge in a heartbeat.

[Chinook]

I'm gonna stir some mad replays but what the heck. I would do Vucevic for Aldridge in a heartbeat.

'Cause you hate winnin'

[kaji157]

Don´t really see a way we can make that trade, obviously LMA, DD, White and DJ are off the table.

Gasol doesn´t make sense for Orlando and i doubt they want Mills contract.

Clearly having him here makes Gasol really tradeable, a rotation fo LMA, Poetl and Vicevic would be a good one. He is indeed a good rebounder.

[CGD]

Don’t get the fit as long as LMA is here. Anything more than Pau and Raptors first is too rich for a player that can walk as an UFA this summer.

[NASpurs]

Can he play SF? Exactly.

[marinoman]

Vucevic is going somewhere north, he’s on a plane as we speak... I have receipts

[SpursBig3s]

Already posted


My bad. Where at??

[DAF86]

'Cause you hate winnin'

Vucevic: 20.3 ppg, 12 rpg, 3.7 apg, 53 FG%, 38 3pt%, 1.1 bpg, 1.0 spg, PER: 26, OBPM: 3.5, DBPM: 2.9, BPM: 6.5, VORP: 2.3, ON/OFF (for a lottery team): +16.9

Aldridge: 19.8 ppg, 9 rpg, 2.2 apg, 49.7 FG%, 14.3 3pt%, 1.2 bpg, 0.6 spg, PER: 21.1, OBPM: 0.2, DBPM: 0.1, BPM: 0.3, VORP: 0.7, ON/OFF (for a playoffs team): -10.3

I like winning, tbh.

[slick'81]

I mean i like the player but like others say wtf would orl want gasol or fatty in return?

[CGD]

Vucevic is going somewhere north, he’s on a plane as we speak... I have receipts

Well, with the exception of Miami I think that could mean any team, including San Antonio.

[Chinook]

Vucevic: 20.3 ppg, 12 rpg, 3.7 apg, 53 FG%, 38 3pt%, 1.1 bpg, 1.0 spg, PER: 26, OBPM: 3.5, DBPM: 2.9, BPM: 6.5, VORP: 2.3

Aldridge: 19.8 ppg, 9 rpg, 2.2 apg, 49.7 FG%, 14.3 3pt%, 1.2 bpg, 0.6 spg, PER: 21.1, OBPM: 0.2, DBPM: 0.1, BPM: 0.3, VORP: 0.7

I like winning, tbh.

Yet still can't make the Magic a winning team.

You like stats, not winnin'.

[Pavlov]

"for a lottery team"

[marinoman]

Well, with the exception of Miami I think that could mean any team, including San Antonio.
That was the joke, thanks for deconstructing it.

[CGD]

I mean i like the player but like others say wtf would orl want gasol or fatty in return?

Patty’s culture tbh, but seriously their PG situation is trash.

More likely they’d want the Raps pick, which seems fair since they’d need to eat 6M of Pau’s deal next year. I don’t think it’s a terrible use of the 28-30th pick in “weak” draft, if they see something in Vuc and want to acquire his bird rights. Essentially Vuc is a younger version of 5 years ago Pau, which ain’t bad.

[DAF86]

Yet still can't make the Magic a winning team.

You like stats, not winnin'.

Simmons made the Spurs a winning team when he was here. got it. :tu

[FkLA]

I'm gonna stir some mad replays but what the heck. I would do Vucevic for Aldridge in a heartbeat.

smh

[kaji157]

Patty’s culture tbh, but seriously their PG situation is trash.

More likely they’d want the Raps pick, which seems fair since they’d need to eat 6M of Pau’s deal next year. I don’t think it’s a terrible use of the 28-30th pick in “weak” draft, if they see something in Vuc and want to acquire his bird rights. Essentially Vuc is a younger version of 5 years ago Pau, which ain’t bad.

You could add the raps 1st and ask for the Orlando 2nd round pick, they would be really close. Still i don´t see Orlando interested.
Thei PG situtation is shit, but i don´t see a team interested in riding Mills for 2 more years.

[DAF86]

"for a lottery team"

A 16 and 20 team is a point and a half better than their competition when Vucevic is on the floor. That's pretty impressive, tbh.

[DAF86]

smh

He is better son, he just is.

[superbigtime]

lol Vuc > LMA

[DAF86]

lol Vuc > LMA

Explain in a rational way why he isn't.

[Pavlov]

A 16 and 20 team is a point and a half better than their competition when Vucevic is on the floor. That's pretty impressive, tbh.
Ok, you've got another agenda.

[Play Boban]

I'm gonna stir some mad replays but what the heck. I would do Vucevic for Aldridge in a heartbeat.

Truth nuke. Me too. On the right team he'd be an All Star.

[DJR210]

Trade Pau for Vucevic straight up :tu

[marinoman]

Not that fadeawayhoops isn’t a super reliable source but the same guy wrote an article a few days earlier saying derozan trade for dennis Smith jr

1077703173144539136

[superbigtime]

Explain in a rational way why he isn't.

Can't score, rebound, post up, pass, or defend as well as Aldridge.

[TimmyBuckets]

How would he fit and what would we give up?

[Pavlov]

Not that fadeawayhoops isn’t a super reliable source but the same guy wrote an article a few days earlier saying derozan trade for dennis Smith jr

1077703173144539136Not a rumor.

Not insiders.

[DocDoc]

And a really stupid trade at that!

[DAF86]

Can't score, rebound, post up, pass, or defend as well as Aldridge.

Numbers indicate the exact opposite.

[Spurs da champs]

Can't score, rebound, post up, pass, or defend as well as Aldridge.

Except his rebounding and passing are better... not that I'd do the trade or argue Vuc>LMA anyway.

[emanueldavidginobili]

I would also take Vucevic in heartbeat tbh, if it was possible. And would swap him for LA. one big factor LA turns 34 this year and Vucevic just turned 28 in October. Also Vucevic isn’t a rhythm player like LA is where he has to get consistent touches for him to start feeling good about his game. Because my only gripe with LA is the ball movement has been great as of late but the only time the ball does stick is when it gets to LA’s hands. But he’s been playing great as of late and this would never happen so yeah.

[R. DeMurre]

[QUOTE=superbigtime;9654996]Can't score, rebound, post up, pass, or defend as well as Aldridge.

I'm not an Aldridge hater, but what you're saying just isn't true. Vucevic is rebounding at a much higher rate than Aldridge-- it's not even close. In terms of Per 100 possessions, he's also getting more points, more assists, more steals, and more blocks, with a better FG%.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Nikola+Vucevic&player_id1_select=Nikola+Vucevic&y1=2019&player_id1=vucevni01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=LaMarcus+Aldridge&player_id2_select=LaMarcus+Aldridge&y2=2019&player_id2=aldrila01&idx=players

[MoSpur02]

It's not even a legit rumor, but I'd trade LA for Vucevic. Not sure I'd do it in the middle of the season though. The Spurs bare barely getting into a rythm. You don't wanna mess that up by bringing in someone new unless you're trading away someone like Gasol or Cunningham, which isn't going to happen.

[slick'81]

It's not even a legit rumor, but I'd trade LA for Vucevic. Not sure I'd do it in the middle of the season though. The Spurs bare barely getting into a rythm. You don't wanna mess that up by bringing in someone new unless you're trading away someone like Gasol or Cunningham, which isn't going to happen.


But would we become that much better? Now in a pipe dream scenario of lma,vucevic,gay and dd together would be crazy

[TD 21]

Not a reputable source or believable. With Aldridge and Poeltl entrenched, suffice it to say they're not going after another rotational, much less star, big . . . and no, Aldridge can't go back to playing PF and is fine with playing C now.


Vucevic: 20.3 ppg, 12 rpg, 3.7 apg, 53 FG%, 38 3pt%, 1.1 bpg, 1.0 spg, PER: 26, OBPM: 3.5, DBPM: 2.9, BPM: 6.5, VORP: 2.3, ON/OFF (for a lottery team): +16.9

Aldridge: 19.8 ppg, 9 rpg, 2.2 apg, 49.7 FG%, 14.3 3pt%, 1.2 bpg, 0.6 spg, PER: 21.1, OBPM: 0.2, DBPM: 0.1, BPM: 0.3, VORP: 0.7, ON/OFF (for a playoffs team): -10.3

I like winning, tbh.

As ever, context is important. Of course Vucevic's ON/OFF is significantly better. His backup, Bamba, is a raw rookie, who's struggled for the most part. Aldridge's backup, Poeltl, is a starting caliber player.

Also, Aldridge's rebounding is misleading. He's elite at boxing out, which is why this team has remained an elite defensive rebounding team despite playing more modern lineups.

Vucevic has had the better (contract) season, is 5 years younger and has been less stubborn about extending his range to 3, so in a vaccuum, of course he'd be better to have going forward (Magic obviously wouldn't do it though) . . . but he's never been a better player and with Aldridge progressing the mean, unless he can maintain his current form, he still isn't.

[dbestpro]

Would look at a deal that included Ross. Both are free agents at the end of the season so Orlando's motivation would be to get something over nothing. Gasol would have to be moved and his expiring contract end of 2020 along with picks might do the trick.

[offset formation]

Not a reputable source or believable. With Aldridge and Poeltl entrenched, suffice it to say they're not going after another rotational, much less star, big . . . and no, Aldridge can't go back to playing PF and is fine with playing C now.



As ever, context is important. Of course Vucevic's ON/OFF is significantly better. His backup, Bamba, is a raw rookie, who's struggled for the most part. Aldridge's backup, Poeltl, is a starting caliber player.

Also, Aldridge's rebounding is misleading. He's elite at boxing out, which is why this team has remained an elite defensive rebounding team despite playing more modern lineups.

Vucevic has had the better (contract) season, is 5 years younger and has been less stubborn about extending his range to 3, so in a vaccuum, of course he'd be better to have going forward (Magic obviously wouldn't do it though) . . . but he's never been a better player and with Aldridge progressing the mean, unless he can maintain his current form, he still isn't.

So refreshing. Thanks.

[Pavlov]

I hate when fake trade ideas are treated like actual trade rumors.

[DAF86]

Not a reputable source or believable. With Aldridge and Poeltl entrenched, suffice it to say they're not going after another rotational, much less star, big . . . and no, Aldridge can't go back to playing PF and is fine with playing C now.



As ever, context is important. Of course Vucevic's ON/OFF is significantly better. His backup, Bamba, is a raw rookie, who's struggled for the most part. Aldridge's backup, Poeltl, is a starting caliber player.

Also, Aldridge's rebounding is misleading. He's elite at boxing out, which is why this team has remained an elite defensive rebounding team despite playing more modern lineups.

Vucevic has had the better (contract) season, is 5 years younger and has been less stubborn about extending his range to 3, so in a vaccuum, of course he'd be better to have going forward (Magic obviously wouldn't do it though) . . . but he's never been a better player and with Aldridge progressing the mean, unless he can maintain his current form, he still isn't.

On/off can be somewhat explained by your substitute. How do you explain the fact that the Magic outscore their competition by 1.5 pts when Vucevic is on the court with lesser teamates around him, while the Spurs get outscored by 1.6 pts when Aldridge is on the court with better teammates around him?

[TD 21]

On/off can be somewhat explained by your substitute. How do you explain the fact that the Magic outscore their competition by 1.5 pts when Vucevic is on the court with lesser teamates around him, while the Spurs get outscored by 1.6 pts when Aldridge is on the court with better teammates around him?

Like I said, Vucevic is inarguably having a better season. He's also playing at a level he's never approached and 35 games (considering he's 28, in his 8th season and a contract one) is not a big enough sample size to call him better than a player who's been better than him his entire career.

Look at Aldridge. He appeared to be a shell of his former self in October and November. In December, he progressed to his mean.

[Pavlov]

On/off can be somewhat explained by your substitute. How do you explain the fact that the Magic outscore their competition by 1.5 pts when Vucevic is on the court with lesser teamates around him, while the Spurs get outscored by 1.6 pts when Aldridge is on the court with better teammates around him?Now Cunningham and Forbes are superior NBA starters.:lol

[HarlemHeat37]

Vucevic is such a strange case..he was a no-impact, empty stats guy for years to begin his career, yet all of a sudden all his impact metrics shot up the past 2 seasons..I don't watch enough of that terrible Magic team to know what changed, though:lol

[DAF86]

Like I said, Vucevic is inarguably having a better season. He's also playing at a level he's never approached and 35 games (considering he's 28, in his 8th season and a contract one) is not a big enough sample size to call him better than a player who's been better than him his entire career.

I understand people thinking the sample size isn't enough. I, personally, think Vucevic is for real and that he has shown a steady improvement for a long while, as well as proving to be a solid performer for years now (this is not the first time he flirts with a 20, 10, 50% season, tbh).

I also think his style of play would fit better on a contending team: he shoots 3s at a respectable volume and he can give you Aldridge's type of production without the need of being the focal point of the offense. He can get his by playing within the flow of the offense. He doesn't need constant touches to give you 20 and 10 and stay engaged on defense.

[superbigtime]

[QUOTE=superbigtime;9654996]Can't score, rebound, post up, pass, or defend as well as Aldridge.

I'm not an Aldridge hater, but what you're saying just isn't true. Vucevic is rebounding at a much higher rate than Aldridge-- it's not even close. In terms of Per 100 possessions, he's also getting more points, more assists, more steals, and more blocks, with a better FG%.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Nikola+Vucevic&player_id1_select=Nikola+Vucevic&y1=2019&player_id1=vucevni01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=LaMarcus+Aldridge&player_id2_select=LaMarcus+Aldridge&y2=2019&player_id2=aldrila01&idx=players

Some people watch stats. Some watch players.

[Shakril]

Trading Vucevic for LMA has no real upside. The future C will be Poeltl, and right now VUC and LMA have similar numbers.

[DAF86]

Some people watch stats. Some watch players.

Really? How many Magic games have you watched this season?

[r0drig0lac]

Can he play SF? Exactly.

[DPG21920]

This is so, so silly. You are taking really the only good year Vucevic has had (which happens to be a contract year) and acting like he’s got unlimited upside. He’s been in the league for 6 years and this is really the first time he’s ever been a positive offensive player.

His defense is actually a better than most would assume, but overall hes been no where close to LMA as an overall impact player.

LMA has been an all-star and all-nba player on multiple teams with different systems. Vucevic has done nothing.

[superbigtime]

Really? How many Magic games have you watched this season?

Clearly, lol.

[DAF86]

This is so, so silly. You are taking really the only good year Vucevic has had (which happens to be a contract year) and acting like he’s got unlimited upside.

Where?


He’s been in the league for 6 years and this is really the first time he’s ever been a positive offensive player.

By what metric?

[DAF86]

Clearly, lol.

I didn't make a yes or no question, tbh.

[FkLA]

He is better son, he just is.

Are you trolling? :lol

[DAF86]

Are you trolling? :lol

I barely troll, tbh. It is well documented that I'm not a fan of Aldridge's game. It's just too inefficient to trully contend for a championship and after years of seeing true efficient stars I'm spoiled. I still root for him, vote him for the ASG and all that shit but that doesn't prevent me from speaking my mind about his game, tbh.

[DPG21920]

Where?



By what metric?

By virtually any metric you want to look at.

[DAF86]

By virtually any metric you want to look at.

I looked at most of them and they don't support your claim.

[DPG21920]

I looked at most of them and they don't support your claim.

:lol you are lying

[DAF86]

:lol you are lying

No, I'm not. Why would I lie? It takes no more than 2 minutes to look them up.

But, anyway, since you have no actual argument you can continue to troll away.

[DPG21920]

I gave you the reasons why. Also, isn’t Vucevic a career negative OBPM player :lol? Im pretty sure I remember that.

[MoSpur02]

But would we become that much better? Now in a pipe dream scenario of lma,vucevic,gay and dd together would be crazy

I'm not sure. I haven't watched too much of Vucevic to say he would make the Spurs better. Aldridge is a great player when he's aggressive and engaged on defense. However, he kind of ball hogs too much and stops the ball movement at times.

[DAF86]

I gave you the reasons why. Also, isn’t Vucevic a career negative OBPM player :lol? Im pretty sure I remember that.

-0.1 mainly because of his early seasons. That doesn't mean this season is the only one where he was a plus on offense. He has posted a positive OBPM on 4 of the last 5 seasons.

[DPG21920]

-0.1 mainly because of his early seasons. That doesn't mean this season is the only one where he was a plus on offense. He has posted a positive OBPM on 4 of the last 5 seasons.

:lol let’s just forget the FIRST HALF of his career and that one year before last and focus on his best! Just like I said. He’s a career negative player on offense.

[DAF86]

:lol let’s just forget the FIRST HALF of his career and that one year before last and focus on his best!

If you trade for Vucevic you wouldn't be getting rookie Vucevic, you would be getting the current version. :lol


Just like I said. He’s a career negative player on offense.

No son, you said:


This is so, so silly. You are taking really the only good year Vucevic has had (which happens to be a contract year) and acting like he’s got unlimited upside. He’s been in the league for 6 years and this is really the first time he’s ever been a positive offensive player.

His defense is actually a better than most would assume, but overall hes been no where close to LMA as an overall impact player.

LMA has been an all-star and all-nba player on multiple teams with different systems. Vucevic has done nothing.

[FkLA]

I barely troll, tbh. It is well documented that I'm not a fan of Aldridge's game. It's just too inefficient to trully contend for a championship and after years of seeing true efficient stars I'm spoiled. I still root for him, vote him for the ASG and all that shit but that doesn't prevent me from speaking my mind about his game, tbh.

I mean, I don't think LMA is the next Duncan or a truly elite #1 that can lead us to a title as the best player either (unless it's a truly unique situation like '14 where it's more of a team effort). But I do think he's better than freaking Vucevic. Aldridge has long list of accolades and truly dominant performances, including many in the playoffs, that Vucevic can only dream of.

[DAF86]

I mean, I don't think LMA is the next Duncan or a truly elite #1 that can lead us to a title as the best player either (unless it's a truly unique situation like '14 where it's more of a team effort). But I do think he's better than freaking Vucevic. Aldridge has long list of accolades and truly dominant performances, including many in the playoffs, that Vucevic can only dream of.

Maybe Vucevic is missing more seasons at this current level, and/or actually getting to the playoffs. But just looking at this season, there's no denying Vucevic has been better any way you want to look at it: raw stats, advanced metrics and even eye test.

[Leetonidas]

Vucevic can't even hold LMAs jock strap :lol how is this convo even happening

[DAF86]

I love how folks would just claim "Vucevic can't even hold LMAs jock strap" and just leave it at that feeling all superior without even the feeling the need of providing some kind of evidence. :lol

It is 2019 people, the days of going by public perception or name recognition are over. Try to put some subtance into your takes, tbh.

[FkLA]

Maybe Vucevic is missing more seasons at this current level, and/or actually getting to the playoffs. But just looking at this season, there's no denying Vucevic has been better any way you want to look at it: raw stats, advanced metrics and even eye test.

Has Vucevic been better this year than Aldridge was just last year? Aldridge didn't have a good start to the season this year so it's fair to say Vucevic has had a better 1/3rd of a season but I don't think that makes him the better player. An engaged Aldridge, that doesn't settle for inefficient fadeaways, that runs the floor to establish deep position early, that bullies players in the post is by far a better player than Vucevic, imo.

[DPG21920]

I just put substance and you dismissed half the data :lol

[DPG21920]

Vuc never had a VORP over 3 once, including this year. LMA has several seasons over 3. But yes, after LMA’s worst first 20 games of his career compared to Vuc’s best start ever, Vuc is playing better.

Funny how you throw out years of data like that’s not the norm but won’t dismiss LMA’s worst 20 game stretch ever maybe like we should expect that (despite him turning it around massively already)

[alpha_HaZE]

I'm gonna stir some mad replays but what the heck. I would do Vucevic for Aldridge in a heartbeat.

Ha, me too! Him and Terrence Ross. But only if we have a guarantee the Vucevic wants to stay in SA.

[DAF86]

Has Vucevic been better this year than Aldridge was just last year? Aldridge didn't have a good start to the season this year so it's fair to say Vucevic has had a better 1/3rd of a season but I don't think that makes him the better player. An engaged Aldridge, that doesn't settle for inefficient fadeaways, that runs the floor to establish deep position early, that bullies players in the post is by far a better player than Vucevic, imo.

Last season Aldridge: PER: 25, OBPM: 3.0, DBPM: 0.3, BPM: 3.3, VORP: 3.3, ON/OFF: 6.8
This season Vucevic: PER: 26, OBPM: 3.5, DBPM: 2.9, BPM: 6.5, VORP: 2.3, ON/OFF: 16.9

So yeah, in terms of metrics, so far it is safe to say Vucevic is having a better year than Aldridge's last season.

But regardless of that, what I focus more on is on their respective styles of play. Statistically they put similar numbers, the difference is how they get them.

As everybody already knows here, to get that "engaged" Aldridge you speak of you need to make him the focal point of the offense. He's a rythm player that needs touches on quantity and with frecuency.

Whereas Vucevic is more of a typical European big that gets his on the flow of the offense. You can give him the ball on the post and get him to work but he can also work the pick and roll, both rolling and popping up (not only from midrange but from the 3pt line) and he can also be a spot up player. He doesn't need to always be the first option of a play to be effective.

So, while both are similar in production and neither is a true number one, one needs to be treated as a number one option to produce while the other can actually produce while being a secondary option.

[alpha_HaZE]

This is so, so silly. You are taking really the only good year Vucevic has had (which happens to be a contract year) and acting like he’s got unlimited upside. He’s been in the league for 6 years and this is really the first time he’s ever been a positive offensive player.

His defense is actually a better than most would assume, but overall hes been no where close to LMA as an overall impact player.

LMA has been an all-star and all-nba player on multiple teams with different systems. Vucevic has done nothing.

One is going up and has a reasonable contract, and the other is going down and has a contract that prohibits you from bringing another star and with him we will never be contenders.

[FkLA]

Last season Aldridge: PER: 25, OBPM: 3.0, DBPM: 0.3, BPM: 3.3, VORP: 3.3, ON/OFF: 6.8
This season Vucevic: PER: 26, OBPM: 3.5, DBPM: 2.9, BPM: 6.5, VORP: 2.3, ON/OFF: 16.9

So yeah, in terms of metrics, so far it is safe to say Vucevic is having a better year than Aldridge's last season.

But regardless of that, what I focus more on is on their respective styles of play. Statistically they put similar numbers, the difference is how they get them.

As everybody already knows here, to get that "engaged" Aldridge you speak of you need to make him the focal point of the offense. He's a rythm player that needs touches on quantity and with frecuency.

Whereas Vucevic is more of a typical European big that gets his on the flow of the offense. You can give him the ball on the post and get him to work but he can also work the pick and roll, both rolling and popping up (not only from midrange but from the 3pt line) and he can also be a spot up player. He doesn't need to always be the first option of a play to be effective.

So, while both are similar in production and neither is a true number one, one needs to be treated as a number one option to produce while the other can actually produce while being a secondary option.

https://media.tenor.com/images/86eb7c00905ba5fa58b0e0bc7c7c7486/tenor.gif


Missed WS which goes to LMA handedly. Still pretty surprising though.I didn't know Vucevic's advanced metrics were that good this season. If he maintains this level then there's an argument. I'm not sure he does though because they're such massive improvements over all his other years that the most reasonable explanation for it is probably just contract year/short sample size rather than him randomly becoming this good in his 8th year.

I actually don't agree that LMA needs a bunch of touches. He can be pretty sensitive but it's not like he needs 25 shots to be dominant. If he would just play like a man all the time, he can be such a bully in the post and he gets so many high percentage looks that he doesn't need that many touches to have big nights. These past few games for example, it hasn't felt like he's being force fed to where it's detrimental to the rest of the team. It's when he becomes a fadeaway queen that he's at his worst and becomes a shitty volume scorer.

[look_at_g_shred]

Would rather trade Toronto 1st and patty for Taj Gibson

[gambit1990]

If you trade for Vucevic you wouldn't be getting rookie Vucevic, you would be getting the current version. :lol
:lol

[TD 21]

I love how folks would just claim "Vucevic can't even hold LMAs jock strap" and just leave it at that feeling all superior without even the feeling the need of providing some kind of evidence.

:lol


It is 2019 people, the days of going by public perception or name recognition are over. Try to put some subtance into your takes, tbh.


Last season Aldridge: PER: 25, OBPM: 3.0, DBPM: 0.3, BPM: 3.3, VORP: 3.3, ON/OFF: 6.8
This season Vucevic: PER: 26, OBPM: 3.5, DBPM: 2.9, BPM: 6.5, VORP: 2.3, ON/OFF: 16.9




Good points. I do think they're closer than most people would probably think at first glance, but that Aldridge has been the superior player over time and that his '17-;18 was better than Vucevic's '18-'19 so far.

Again, the ON/OFF is skewed, because Aldridge's primary backup was Gasol, a starting caliber player, while Vucevic's primary backup is the aforementioned Bamba.

Aldridge leading an otherwise totally inept Spurs offense to 47 wins matters. Sure, their elite defense helped, but ultimately you still need someone to close out close games offensively and outside of games when Ginobili turned back the clock, is was generally him doing so.



Vuc never had a VORP over 3 once, including this year. LMA has several seasons over 3. But yes, after LMA’s worst first 20 games of his career compared to Vuc’s best start ever, Vuc is playing better.


Funny how you throw out years of data like that’s not the norm but won’t dismiss LMA’s worst 20 game stretch ever maybe like we should expect that (despite him turning it around massively already)

Also good points.

[apalisoc_9]

Vuc is lazy 60% of the time. You can say Aldridge is lazy at times too, but he puts in work majority of the time even when hes npt scoring.

Dont think people realize how lazy vuc is sometimes.

[FutureMan]

You really can find the strangest opinions on this site. Vucevic better then Aldridge?? Holy bias!

Anyway... Putting aside that debate. I could see a three team trade coming into play here. Maybe something with the Bulls?

Orlando - Pau, Lopez
Bulls - Mozgov, Pondexter, pick(s)
Spurs - Vucevic, Holiday

[DAF86]

Vuc is lazy 60% of the time. You can say Aldridge is lazy at times too, but he puts in work majority of the time even when hes npt scoring.

Dont think people realize how lazy vuc is sometimes.

Lazy in what aspects? His rebounding and defensive metrics (effort stats) have been pretty damn good almost for the entirety of his career.

[DAF86]

You really can find the strangest opinions on this site. Vucevic better then Aldridge?? Holy bias!

Anyway... Putting aside that debate. I could see a three team trade coming into play here. Maybe something with the Bulls?

Orlando - Pau, Lopez
Bulls - Mozgov, Pondexter, pick(s)
Spurs - Vucevic, Holiday

Yeah, as a Spurs fan I'm bias towards a Magic player in favour of a Spurs one. :lol

[offset formation]

Vucevic can't even hold LMAs jock strap :lol how is this convo even happening

[HarlemHeat37]

The problem with analyzing a player like Vucevic is the fact that he hasn't played a meaningful game in nearly 7 years..

It's tough with players like that, you don't know how much of their impact is a product of the opposing team not giving a shit against a bottom feeder..

[apalisoc_9]

Lazy in what aspects? His rebounding and defensive metrics (effort stats) have been pretty damn good almost for the entirety of his career.

On ball Screens, offball screens, boxout etc.

Defensive metrics tend to be infalted when you're the designated rebounder of your team. Hes also lazy defending the perimter. As Lazy as aldridge is sometimes, he still puts in work with on amd offball screens.

You need to watch vuc consistently to know what I mean.

[DAF86]

On ball Screens, offball screens, boxout etc.

Defensive metrics tend to be infalted when you're the designated rebounder of your team. Hes also lazy defending the perimter. As Lazy as aldridge is sometimes, he still puts in work with on amd offball screens.

You need to watch vuc consistently to know what I mean.

Are you a Magic fan or something? I have watched like 6 or 7 Magic games this season, I doubt a non-Magic fan has seem more than me, tbh. :lol

[offset formation]

On ball Screens, offball screens, boxout etc.

Defensive metrics tend to be infalted when you're the designated rebounder of your team. Hes also lazy defending the perimter. As Lazy as aldridge is sometimes, he still puts in work with on amd offball screens.

You need to watch vuc consistently to know what I mean.

Facts, I hate to say.

[apalisoc_9]

Are you a Magic fan or something? I have watched like 6 or 7 Magic games this season, I doubt a non-Magic fan has seem more than me, tbh. :lol

I watch more basketball than about 10 people combined in Spurstalk. I've watched them play 12 times this year and I usually end up watching them around 20 times a year.

Its usually thw west Coast teams I struggle to watch. Teams like the suns id probably watch 6 times a year.

[apalisoc_9]

Maybe if Vuc played for a winning team hed be more motivated. Who knows really. Its really hard to say because hes never had a single competitive season.

Skillswise, he can be one of the top 5 bigs in the league but how that would translate with better players around is beyond me.

Im sure if he was playing with a kawhi leonard..hed be averaging less points and boards etc.

[Joseph Kony]

I love how folks would just claim "Vucevic can't even hold LMAs jock strap" and just leave it at that feeling all superior without even the feeling the need of providing some kind of evidence. :lol

It is 2019 people, the days of going by public perception or name recognition are over. Try to put some subtance into your takes, tbh.

dude, you're seriously using less than half a season of good stats over 6 seasons and trying to act like youre making some hot intelligent take posting some cherry picked stats :lmao just stop. Let me know when he does it for more than 35 fucking games

[Play Boban]

Vucevic is better than Aldridge and younger. The trade is a no-brainer tbh........

At least to anyone with a modicum of basketball knowledge.

[FutureMan]

Yeah, as a Spurs fan I'm bias towards a Magic player in favour of a Spurs one. :lol

Thats exaclty what I’m saying. You have such a distaste for Aldridge that you’re willing to say Vucevic is better... the literal definition of bias. Wanna try again?

[DAF86]

dude, you're seriously using less than half a season of good stats over 6 seasons and trying to act like youre making some hot intelligent take posting some cherry picked stats :lmao just stop. Let me know when he does it for more than 35 fucking games

Why are you acting as if this is the first good Vucevic season? :lol

This is his 7th straight season (out of 8) being a net positive player, 6th straight season with a PER of over 18 (with the first two being 14.3 and 17.8) and it's not like he is being effective on a small role, he has already posted 3 season of over 18 ppg and 5 seasons of over 10 rpg. All of this while playing with shitty teammates. He has been consistently good for a while now.

[Payote75]

If you aren't giving up LA and get Vuc in a trade which is possible with some assets we do hold we are a tough match up for anyone. LA does not want to play center and Vuc is a very good three point shooter passer rebounder etc. he does a little of everything pretty well. ... you would have great spacing passing and a very pop Spurs like team. There might be some assets the magic would take probably not patty but combo of pick young player gasol contract .....it makes this team a real threat in my opinion.

[DAF86]

Thats exaclty what I’m saying. You have such a distaste for Aldridge that you’re willing to say Vucevic is better... the literal definition of bias. Wanna try again?

I think the bias is the other way around. Most of the folks arguing with me would be saying Vucevic is the better player if he were a Spur.

[FutureMan]

If you aren't giving up LA and get Vuc in a trade which is possible with some assets we do hold we are a tough match up for anyone. LA does not want to play center and Vuc is a very good three point shooter passer rebounder etc. he does a little of everything pretty well. ... you would have great spacing passing and a very pop Spurs like team. There might be some assets the magic would take probably not patty but combo of pick young player gasol contract .....it makes this team a real threat in my opinion.

Exactly.

For the record you certainly don’t have to give up Aldridge anyway. This is the Magic we are talking about here. I’ve been a fan of them for a long long time. That front office has hurt my soul for over a decade.

[Play Boban]

Why are you acting as if this is the first good Vucevic season? :lol

This is his 7th straight season (out of 8) being a net positive player, 6th straight season with a PER of over 18 (with the first two being 14.3 and 17.8) and it's not like he is being effective on a small role, he has already posted 3 season of over 18 ppg and 5 seasons of over 10 rpg. All of this while playing with shitty teammates. He has been consistently good for a while now.
Truth nukes :wow

[Joseph Kony]

Why are you acting as if this is the first good Vucevic season? :lol

This is his 7th straight season (out of 8) being a net positive player, 6th straight season with a PER of over 18 (with the first two being 14.3 and 17.8) and it's not like he is being effective on a small role, he has already posted 3 season of over 18 ppg and 5 seasons of over 10 rpg. All of this while playing with shitty teammates. He has been consistently good for a while now.
you're comparing him to LMA though. and in pretty much all categories and advanced states LMA has him beat throughout his career up to now (obviously LMA has more seasons played), except maybe OBPM and BPM and they're still fairly even. Not only that, but Vucevic has never once played 80 games in a season and has had 3 season missing 15+ games a season. he's also never been a 3pt shooter until the last season and a half now, so its not like he has been a stretch C his entire career, and while he is shooting better this year, 31% and 37% arent eye popping numbers from deep. aside from one statistical anomaly the first 35 games this year, your boy hasn't been anywhere near as good as LMA over their careers, and is another guy putting up empty stats on a shit team. if he can sustain it for the whole year and string together a couple years of consistent play i'd agree with you, but until that happens no way he's better in any way than LMA

[Kobe'sAchilles]

You would need a defensive stopper paired with Vuc. Maybe we have that with Poetl or maybe not. But Orlando is atrocious on defense and he is a big reason why. I think having Murray, White, and an actual defensive SF (not freaking Cunningham) would play very well with Vuc. He would also fit in our bench unit fantastically as well. But at this point in time I prefer LMA. But Vuc has a very good contract and everybody is kinda screwed cap wise so I think we could re-sign him on a good deal. I don't know what the heck we would have to trade to get him though. Mills, Mulintov and 2 first round picks is really the only package I would like the Spurs to give up

[Joseph Kony]

He has pretty similar career stats to brook lopez. :lol

i'm not saying i wouldnt trade LMA for him though simply because he's younger, but this team has nice chemistry going, i see no reason to mess that up

[gospursgojas]

Lol is this thread really arguing that Vucevic is even on same planet as LMA?

ST is drunks

[Ignazzz]

LMA vs VUC???

I like Vuc as European talent for years but LMA is much better.
We can't compare LMA's stats in team oriented Spurs (with DDR on court) with Vuc's stats in Orlando Magic easy goin team.

This pure comparison is really bad.

Only pros: AGE and SALARY

Pop wants wins. Not this way Guys ;-)
If You wanted better "SALARY and AGE" You should focus on draft picks (not player like VUC without any picks).
It doesn't make sense.

[Chinook]

Posters who just look at stats won't see what makes LMA and Vuc different. Nikola is essentially the refined version of "Softridge": He takes a lot of jumpers and is all-around a finesse big. If "Softridge" were what the Spurs wanted or needed, then trading for Vuc could make sense. He's smart, skilled and agile, and he has the touch and range to make a jump-shooting game work for a big. He could come in, average 20/10/4 in a DeRozan oriented team, maybe even get some All-Star consideration if he continues to streak this way.

And the team would have zero shot at a title until they completely change their core.

The Spurs don't need "Softridge", refined version or no. They need LMAlpha, the guy who can physically dominate the best centers in the league and force the small-ball teams to move away from their preferred styles of play in order to match up. Ultimately, Vuc is going to shoot the jumper. It's not a matter of motivation like it is with Aldridge. It's just his game. He doesn't back people down. Even when he plays with his back to the basket, it's more about him finding his spot than it is about him getting deeper into the paint. As a defense, you can deal with that. You can switch on him, you can play guys like Draymond and Siakam on him. It's not going to make a difference. because Vuc is going for that jumper regardless. When Aldridge goes to the basket, even most centers aren't doing anything to stop him. Look at how many fouls Aldridge draws compared to Vuc. It's obvious which one is harder to guard, which one affects the opposing D more, regardless of what the numbers say.

Aldridge-ball is winning ball. It's amazing that we still keep having this debate after a year and change of seeing it happen. Leave bullshit like advanced stats for fantasy leagues and 2K. You don't win games by having the best PER or RPM. You win them by scoring more points than your opponents within the constraints of each game. The Spurs only path to a title, Murray or no, DeRozan or no, trade or no, is having Aldridge be the best player on the floor for 4/7 games in four series while the rest of the roster does enough to make that work. Unless the Spurs somehow acquire another franchise player, that's the path they have to protect. Guys like Vuc and Capela just won't get it done, even if they don't have games where they're "soft".

[R. DeMurre]

[QUOTE=R. DeMurre;9655070]

Some people watch stats. Some watch players.

I watch both. According to advanced stats, Orlando is a 52 win team with Vucevic on the floor and a 12 win team when he's not playing.

[RC_Drunkford]

Vucevic plays in the East. He plays scrubs most of the time while LA plays in the West where 14 out of 15 teams are playoff teams

[FutureMan]

[QUOTE=superbigtime;9655178]

I watch both. According to advanced stats, Orlando is a 52 win team with Vucevic on the floor and a 12 win team when he's not playing.

And yet they haven’t won more than 40 games since 2011. Since Dwight Howard.
People talk about how “Aldridge ball” isn’t winning ball. Good lord look at “Vucevic ball”

I’ve watched him his entire career and always wanted him as a role player for the Spurs. After all a star on a magic team will be at best a third/fourth best option on the Spurs.

[DAF86]

Posters who just look at stats won't see what makes LMA and Vuc different. Nikola is essentially the refined version of "Softridge": He takes a lot of jumpers and is all-around a finesse big. If "Softridge" were what the Spurs wanted or needed, then trading for Vuc could make sense. He's smart, skilled and agile, and he has the touch and range to make a jump-shooting game work for a big. He could come in, average 20/10/4 in a DeRozan oriented team, maybe even get some All-Star consideration if he continues to streak this way.

And the team would have zero shot at a title until they completely change their core.

The Spurs don't need "Softridge", refined version or no. They need LMAlpha, the guy who can physically dominate the best centers in the league and force the small-ball teams to move away from their preferred styles of play in order to match up. Ultimately, Vuc is going to shoot the jumper. It's not a matter of motivation like it is with Aldridge. It's just his game. He doesn't back people down. Even when he plays with his back to the basket, it's more about him finding his spot than it is about him getting deeper into the paint. As a defense, you can deal with that. You can switch on him, you can play guys like Draymond and Siakam on him. It's not going to make a difference. because Vuc is going for that jumper regardless. When Aldridge goes to the basket, even most centers aren't doing anything to stop him. Look at how many fouls Aldridge draws compared to Vuc. It's obvious which one is harder to guard, which one affects the opposing D more, regardless of what the numbers say.

Aldridge-ball is winning ball. It's amazing that we still keep having this debate after a year and change of seeing it happen. Leave bullshit like advanced stats for fantasy leagues and 2K. You don't win games by having the best PER or RPM. You win them by scoring more points than your opponents within the constraints of each game. The Spurs only path to a title, Murray or no, DeRozan or no, trade or no, is having Aldridge be the best player on the floor for 4/7 games in four series while the rest of the roster does enough to make that work. Unless the Spurs somehow acquire another franchise player, that's the path they have to protect. Guys like Vuc and Capela just won't get it done, even if they don't have games where they're "soft".

Such a huge steamy pile of bullshit. :lmao

It is so obvious that you haven't watched even 5 minutes of Vucevic :lol

Don't you feel even a little bit of remorse when spitting so much bullshit out of your ass? :lol Didn't even occur to you that someone that has indeed watched a couple of Vucevic games would come and correct you?

You didn't even bother to watch a scouting report or even just some random highlights to see if the lies you planned to say could be defended. :lol

Here you go son:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VIOLmYoCAI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPv_uFBYN1A

Vucevic is better than Aldridge at virtually everything: shooting, passing, rebounding, defense, size, you name it. The only reason Aldridge has more recognition is because he has had the chance of playing on better teams and he has a chucker menatlity which results on bigger scoring averages, that's it.

This Vucevic-Aldridge argument reminds me of the early arguments I would have here back in 2008/9 where folks would be: "crofl, how can you compare these two players? scoring averages, blah blah blah, alpha mentality, blah blah blah, will power blah blah blah".

[RC_Drunkford]

you're clearly one of the dumbest posters on this forum. Not even Magic fans believe this shit you tryin to come up with

[Chinook]

Such a huge steamy pile of bullshit. :lmao

It is so obvious that you haven't watched even 5 minutes of Vucevic :lol

Don't you feel even a little bit of remorse when spitting so much bullshit out of your ass? :lol Didn't even occur to you that someone that has indeed watched a couple of Vucevic games would come and correct you?

You didn't even bother to watch a scouting report or even just some random highlights to see if the lies you planned to say could be defended. :lol

Here you go son:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VIOLmYoCAI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPv_uFBYN1A

Vucevic is better than Aldridge at virtually everything: shooting, passing, rebounding, defense, size, you name it. The only reason Aldridge has more recognition is because he has had the chance of playing on better teams and he has a chucker menatlity which results on bigger scoring averages, that's it.

This Vucevic-Aldridge argument reminds me of the early arguments I would have here back in 2008/9 where folks would be: "crofl, how can you compare these two players? scoring averages, blah blah blah, alpha mentality, blah blah blah, will power blah blah blah".

*Says "You haven't watched Vuc if you think he's not a back-to-the-basket player."

* Posts videos of him taking jumpers and facing up.

Shit, even when he's posting up, he isn't even getting closer to the basket. Most guys are holding their ground, and he's just moving in an arc and tossing in hooks from outside the restricted area.

When you say something like "Vuc is better at everything" when the other guy is a multi-time All-NBAer, you don't really have credibility. Dude might be better for what you want, but he certainly isn't better at everything.

You're just coming off as worse and worse. You started off with the misguided but still understandable notion that Aldridge was good at things that aren't that important to winning in the modern era, and you've gotten to a point where you think lottery bigs do literally everything better. This during a stretch where Aldridge carried a team to the playoffs and triggered this resurgence this year. Making that "Aldridge-ball" thread has been the worst thing you've done for your ST career, not because it's a bad take (we've all had those), but because you've desperately doubled-down on it even when it's been obviously wrong while being unable to let even a single person say that without posting a flimsy rebuttal.

Just let it go, man. LMA is better than scrub bigs. Posting up can still win a lot of games if it's supported with the right personnel. It's just the way it is.

[DAF86]

*Says "You haven't watched Vuc if you think he's not a back-to-the-basket player."

* Posts videos of him taking jumpers and facing up.

Shit, even when he's posting up, he isn't even getting closer to the basket. Most guys are holding their ground, and he's just moving in an arc and tossing in hooks from outside the restricted area.

When you say something like "Vuc is better at everything" when the other guy is a multi-time All-NBAer, you don't really have credibility. Dude might be better for what you want, but he certainly isn't better at everything.

You're just coming off as worse and worse. You started off with the misguided but still understandable notion that Aldridge was good at things that aren't that important to winning in the modern era, and you've gotten to a point where you think lottery bigs do literally everything better. This during a stretch where Aldridge carried a team to the playoffs and triggered this resurgence this year. Making that "Aldridge-ball" thread has been the worst thing you've done for your ST career, not because it's a bad take (we've all had those), but because you've desperately doubled-down on it even when it's been obviously wrong while being unable to let even a single person say that without posting a flimsy rebuttal.

Just let it go, man. LMA is better than scrub bigs. Posting up can still win a lot of games if it's supported with the right personnel. It's just the way it is.

Dude, did you even watch the videos? How can one watch that and say "he's not even posting up"? :lol If he doesn't post up, then Aldridge doesn't post up either. In those videos, Vucevic is doing all the things Aldridge does when he plays well, run the court to establish good position inside, bully folks with his bigger size, make quick decisive drives and strong finishes. And he's also doing some things Aldridge can't normally do like hit threes and makes good reads and passes from the post.

And yeah, Vucevic can do pretty much everything Aldridge does at a better level.

-Shooting - Vucevic
-Rebounding - Vucevic
-Passing - Vucevic
-Defense - Vucevic
-Playing within the flow of an offense without checking out if you don't get ":cry mah touches :cry" - Vucevic

I seriously can't think of a single thing Aldridge does better than Vucevic.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Isn't he an UFA this summer? Why would we trade anything of value for that. Pau and scraps, sure.

[DAF86]

FWIW, Vucevic is 8th in the league with 7.4 post ups per game.

":cry but he doesn't post up :cry"

[R. DeMurre]

A few things about Vucevic:

I think he's a legitimate late bloomer. He's worked on the issues he had as a younger player and has improved his all around game, especially shooting and defense. So saying he didn't lead his team to the playoffs (they were terribly constructed teams) from 2012-17 doesn't really matter in this discussion imo. His emergence as a good player in his prime only started last season.
He's never had a good team around him. After Aaron Gordon & Vucevic, the most minutes in Orlando go to Evan Fournier, DJ Augustine, Terrence Ross, Jonathan Issac, Jonathan Simmons, and Jerian Grant. One advanced stat rates the Magic this year as a 52 win team with Vucevic on the floor and a 12 win team with him off. That's a pretty huge difference. Is he Kareem, David Robinson, Hakeem? No, certainly not. But to dismiss him as a bad player at this point I think is ignoring the obvious very large impact he has for his team.

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/59v5ax/nikola-vucevic-is-the-nba-hipsters-mvp

[DPG21920]

I don’t think anyone is saying he’s bad - at least not this year or last. I think what is said is he’s not better than LMA and that it’s hard to trust someone that has been pretty meh impact wise for the first 6 years of their career having such a late blossom.

There is a gamble there where there is no gamble with LMA since he’s definitley better.

[DAF86]

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/59v5ax/nikola-vucevic-is-the-nba-hipsters-mvp

From the article:


So much of his individual triumph can be attributed to the improved accuracy on that long ball—Vucevic is the only player in the NBA who ranks in the top ten for made field goals while sitting outside the top 20 for field goals attempted—but his bread and butter will always be on the block. It’s there where he’s most clearly “a nightmare to match up with.” According to Synergy Sports, only five players have logged more post-up possessions this season. Vucevic spends his time screening, rolling, then jostling for real estate in the paint. Few can force the defense to switch like him, then seal a smaller guy with his off hand as the entry pass smacks against his raised palm. His rapidity from that moment on is merciless and succinct. And when he feels like showing off, Vucevic transforms into Montenegrin McHale: his counters have counters and the way he combines brute force with nimble gentility makes defending him one-on-one a losing proposition

":cry b...but... but he doesn't post up :cry"

:lmao:lmao:lmao

Seriously sons, even for SpursTalk's standards I have seldom seen such a shameless disregard for true statements, tbh. :lol

[Leetonidas]

I don’t think anyone is saying he’s bad - at least not this year or last. I think what is said is he’s not better than LMA and that it’s hard to trust someone that has been pretty meh impact wise for the first 6 years of their career having such a late blossom.

There is a gamble there where there is no gamble with LMA since he’s definitley better.

This. Don't know why DAF over here acting all offended because ST doesn't agree with him. :lol No one said he sucks, he's just never been a better player than LMA

[DAF86]

This. Don't know why DAF over here acting all offended because ST doesn't agree with him. :lol No one said he sucks, he's just never been a better player than LMA

I love all the facts you all present to support such claim, tbh. :lol

[Leetonidas]

I love all the facts you all present to support such claim, tbh. :lol

Plenty of posters have posted stats already so I'm not going to bother arguing with you. Especially since you think half a year of great stats and a highlight video is some kind of great argument :lol

[Leetonidas]

you're comparing him to LMA though. and in pretty much all categories and advanced states LMA has him beat throughout his career up to now (obviously LMA has more seasons played), except maybe OBPM and BPM and they're still fairly even. Not only that, but Vucevic has never once played 80 games in a season and has had 3 season missing 15+ games a season. he's also never been a 3pt shooter until the last season and a half now, so its not like he has been a stretch C his entire career, and while he is shooting better this year, 31% and 37% arent eye popping numbers from deep. aside from one statistical anomaly the first 35 games this year, your boy hasn't been anywhere near as good as LMA over their careers, and is another guy putting up empty stats on a shit team. if he can sustain it for the whole year and string together a couple years of consistent play i'd agree with you, but until that happens no way he's better in any way than LMA

Where is your rebutal to this? What advanced metrics favor Vuc over LMA aside from the first 35games of this year? LMA has him beat in personal accolades, team accolades, advanced stats, etc. But please keep telling us how Vuc is better and no one watches him but you because you watched 5 games this year

[R. DeMurre]

I don’t think anyone is saying he’s bad - at least not this year or last. I think what is said is he’s not better than LMA and that it’s hard to trust someone that has been pretty meh impact wise for the first 6 years of their career having such a late blossom.

There is a gamble there where there is no gamble with LMA since he’s definitley better.


Just to be clear: I'm no Aldridge hater. I generally like the guy, even though I find his refusal to attempt threes but enthusiasm for 20'+ twos a little frustrating.

Regarding the gamble, I guess it depends on what the ultimate goal is. The Spurs are at least partially in rebuilding mode now with Murray, White, and Walker. If the goal is a championship, I don't know if starting next season with a 34 yr old Aldridge is a plan for achieving that, considering those three young players are still probably another year away... that puts them in 2020 with a 35 yr old Aldridge. If the goal is to win games and be viable, then it makes sense. If I had to bet on it, I'd say Vucevic winds up with the Lakers....

[SAGirl]

I imagine some inquiries were made to trade Pau for him with some asset attached. That's the extent of the Spurs interest is my guess.

[DAF86]

Where is your rebutal to this? What advanced metrics favor Vuc over LMA aside from the first 35games of this year? LMA has him beat in personal accolades, team accolades, advanced stats, etc. But please keep telling us how Vuc is better and no one watches him but you because you watched 5 games this year

Here are their career metrics:

Aldridge: PER: 20.7, OBPM: 0.9, DBPM: 0.5, BPM: 1.4, VORP: 26.5*

Vucevic: PER: 19.9, OBPM: -0.1, DBPM: 1.4, BPM: 1.3, VORP: 12.3*

*VORP looks so uneven because, unlike the other stats, it is an accumulative number and Aldridge has played 5 more seasons.

So, even with Vucevic just starting to enter his prime (and never having the luxury of playing for a good team) the career metrics are almost even. It is safe to say that when both players are retired Vucevic's numbers will be better.

[DAF86]

The only good argument against Vucevic right now is that he has yet to prove if he can translate his game to a winning team, which I'm sure he will as soon as he gets out of Orlando.

The sample size argument is invalid, since he has had several good seasons already, including a virtual 20, 11, 50% season. And obviously the argument of him being a "finese guy that doesn't post up" is one of the biggest lies ever stated on ST. :lol

[Prime BEEF]

The only good argument against Vucevic right now is that he has yet to prove if he can translate his game to a winning team, which I'm sure he will as soon as he gets out of Orlando.

Definitely agree with this. Also contract year guy stats always worry me too but you’ve shown that his other years are good as well. I don’t dislike LMA but to act like he is a consistent all world player that is so much better than Vucevic is just crazy. He’s a 3rd option player (for a contender) that has to be the first option in order to earn his contract.

[RC_Drunkford]

Here are their career metrics:

Aldridge: PER: 20.7, OBPM: 0.9, DBPM: 0.5, BPM: 1.4, VORP: 26.5*

Vucevic: PER: 19.9, OBPM: -0.1, DBPM: 1.4, BPM: 1.3, VORP: 12.3*

*VORP looks so uneven because, unlike the other stats, it is an accumulative number and Aldridge has played 5 more seasons.

So, even with Vucevic just starting to enter his prime (and never having the luxury of playing for a good team) the career metrics are almost even. It is safe to say that when both players are retired Vucevic's numbers will be better.

compare their playoff numbers

[DAF86]

compare their playoff numbers

Are you really trying to bring the playoffs as some sort of saving grace for Aldridge's career? :lol

[DAF86]

And just for the record, I'm pretty meh towards Vucevic. The only thing I'm saying is that RIGHT NOW, IN THE YEAR 2019, the metrics and the eye test indicate that he's a better player than Aldridge, nothing more.

Neither guy is a top dog for a championship team, maybe not even a 2nd option, they are probably more suited as 3rd options if you really want to have chances of ringing. The difference is that one guy would accept such role and the other wouldn't.

[Prime BEEF]

Neither guy is a top dog for a championship team, maybe not even a 2nd option, they are probably more suited as 3rd options if you really want to have chances of ringing. The difference is that one guy would accept such role and the other wouldn't.

Bingo

Try and trade him while he still has value. Hope he keeps playing well.

[Duncan87]

Word is hornets desperate to move batum maybe Pau for him with some other pieces seems more likely

[FutureMan]

And just for the record, I'm pretty meh towards Vucevic. The only thing I'm saying is that RIGHT NOW, IN THE YEAR 2019, the metrics and the eye test indicate that he's a better player than Aldridge, nothing more.

Neither guy is a top dog for a championship team, maybe not even a 2nd option, they are probably more suited as 3rd options if you really want to have chances of ringing. The difference is that one guy would accept such role and the other wouldn't.

Just curious, how many Magic games have you watched over the past few seasons??

[Chinook]

From the article:



":cry b...but... but he doesn't post up :cry"

:lmao:lmao:lmao

Seriously sons, even for SpursTalk's standards I have seldom seen such a shameless disregard for true statements, tbh. :lol

Posting up to shoot a face-up jumper is not the same thing as backing a guy down on the block.

Again, you're the same guy who last year didn't think Leonard iso'd a lot, so it's not surprising to see you skim numbers and come up with alternative facts.

[RC_Drunkford]

Are you really trying to bring the playoffs as some sort of saving grace for Aldridge's career? :lol

Aldridge had multiple 40 point 20 rebounds outings in the playoffs. How many does Vucevic have?

[Chinook]

And just for the record, I'm pretty meh towards Vucevic. The only thing I'm saying is that RIGHT NOW, IN THE YEAR 2019, the metrics and the eye test indicate that he's a better player than Aldridge, nothing more.

The metrics for the last 15 games say Aldridge has been better, so no, you don't mean right now, in the year 2019. You don't mean over the course of their careers. You mean a specific sample that is favorable to your point because it has a proportion of bad LMA games that doesn't represent his mean level of play.

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=GP&dir=-1&CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*nikola%20v&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LastNGames=15

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=PLAYER_NAME&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LastNGames=15&CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*lamar

Again, though, you keep on with that whole, "I'ma objectively look at stats and pretend they make my argument for me" line of reasoning.

[superbigtime]

Vuc is most definitely a good player. But better than Aldridge? nope! haha gtfo.

[DAF86]

Just curious, how many Magic games have you watched over the past few seasons??

Just this season, around 6 or 7. Over the past couple of seasons, probably double that, or maybe even more. I watch NBA games every week night, tbh.

[JPB]

Word is hornets desperate to move batum maybe Pau for him with some other pieces seems more likely

Not sure Spurs would have the pieces but Batum is intriguing. Bobo 2.0 ?

State of fact is he's just been borderline terrible this year from what I've seen and understand for a 20M guy. He's a glue guy and bring a lot of intangible but dude just won't score anymore...

But with spurs current big 3, scoring isn't necessarily what's needed... a long 3/4 that can pass, rebound and defend and eventually shoot the 3... hey, tell me more.

He's really fell a cliff this year for some reason, so that would be a gamble... But what could the spurs offer of interest ?

[palangi]

*Says "You haven't watched Vuc if you think he's not a back-to-the-basket player."

* Posts videos of him taking jumpers and facing up.

Shit, even when he's posting up, he isn't even getting closer to the basket. Most guys are holding their ground, and he's just moving in an arc and tossing in hooks from outside the restricted area.

When you say something like "Vuc is better at everything" when the other guy is a multi-time All-NBAer, you don't really have credibility. Dude might be better for what you want, but he certainly isn't better at everything.

You're just coming off as worse and worse. You started off with the misguided but still understandable notion that Aldridge was good at things that aren't that important to winning in the modern era, and you've gotten to a point where you think lottery bigs do literally everything better. This during a stretch where Aldridge carried a team to the playoffs and triggered this resurgence this year. Making that "Aldridge-ball" thread has been the worst thing you've done for your ST career, not because it's a bad take (we've all had those), but because you've desperately doubled-down on it even when it's been obviously wrong while being unable to let even a single person say that without posting a flimsy rebuttal.

Just let it go, man. LMA is better than scrub bigs. Posting up can still win a lot of games if it's supported with the right personnel. It's just the way it is.

Remember when you said Danny green was irreplaceable. I don't think your talent evaluation has gotten any better. So stop acting like you are an end all be all with your weak opinion.
I don't know if Aldridge is better or not. But I do know Aldridge is not some great player you are making him out to be. We aren't winning it with him so maybe try something else and see what he can bring back.

[palangi]

The metrics for the last 15 games say Aldridge has been better, so no, you don't mean right now, in the year 2019. You don't mean over the course of their careers. You mean a specific sample that is favorable to your point because it has a proportion of bad LMA games that doesn't represent his mean level of play.

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=GP&dir=-1&CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*nikola%20v&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LastNGames=15

https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=PLAYER_NAME&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LastNGames=15&CF=PLAYER_NAME*E*lamar

Again, though, you keep on with that whole, "I'ma objectively look at stats and pretend they make my argument for me" line of reasoning.

Just say it. Aldridge is irreplaceable. You know you want to

[Play Boban]

Anti-white racism is alive and well on spurstalk smh....tbh.......

[Chinook]

Anti-white racism is alive and well on spurstalk smh....tbh.......

tl;dr :cry

[Chinook]

Remember when you said Danny green was irreplaceable. I don't think your talent evaluation has gotten any better. So stop acting like you are an end all be all with your weak opinion.
I don't know if Aldridge is better or not. But I do know Aldridge is not some great player you are making him out to be. We aren't winning it with him so maybe try something else and see what he can bring back.

Thought we'd reach a peace once Green was traded. Anyway, Danny's leading the league in some impact stats for a contender. Meanwhile, the Spurs are still desperate for two-way players. In other words, dude is pretty irreplaceable. Aldridge is too. You and I both know this.

[dbestpro]

Really don't get the argument of LMA vs Vuc. The real question is can they play on the floor at the same time together?

[palangi]

Thought we'd reach a peace once Green was traded. Anyway, Danny's leading the league in some impact stats for a contender. Meanwhile, the Spurs are still desperate for two-way players. In other words, dude is pretty irreplaceable. Aldridge is too. You and I both know this.:chestbump

[Joseph Kony]

Rk

Player
From
To
G
MP
PER
TS%
3PAr
FTr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%

BLK%
TOV%
USG%

OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48


OBPM
DBPM

BPM
VORP


1
LaMarcus Aldridge (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/aldrila01.html)
2007
2019
907

31311
20.7

.538

.027

.273

9.0
18.9
14.0
10.2

1.1
2.4

8.0

26.0


63.0

38.1

101.1

.155


0.9

0.5
1.4
26.5



2
Nikola Vucevic (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vucevni01.html)
2012
2019
492
14710

19.9
.533

.063

.156

10.0

27.4

18.6

13.7

1.4

2.5

10.9

24.0

16.7

19.4

36.1
.118

-0.1

1.4

1.3

12.3





I'll give DAF credit, because Vuc has decent stats, honestly a little better than i thought, and he certainly isnt a garbage player by any means (though not sure why he keeps mentioning post play, most people are aware Vuc has been a post player most of his career), but really LMA edges him out in all the important stats, and imo the individual stats like reb% blk% etc go to Vuc as a product of being the best player (most likely) on a trash team for years wheres LMA has played on playoff teams his entire career.

You're also completely dismissing that this dude is injury prone as fuck, and has never managed to play a full season and has multiple years missing 15+ games with injury, including 57 games played in 2014 and only 57 last year. Young big missing that many games before 30 years old is a red flag tbh.

So, I guess i'm just trying to clarify what your argument is. If it's that Vuc is having a better year thus far than LMA and that going forward he will be a better player (not much of a reach considering he's 5 years younger) than yeah i guess i can agree. but if you're trying to insinuate that he has ever been a better player than LMA at any point in his career aside from the first 35 games of this year, then you're compeltely wrong. And seriously, watching 6 games this year and 12 over the past 2-3 seasons doesnt make you an expert on Vucevic, so get off the high horse and stop acting like no one knows what theyre talking about because you watched a handful of games and dont think anyone else on ST has league pass :lol

[DAF86]

I'll give DAF credit, because Vuc has decent stats, honestly a little better than i thought, and he certainly isnt a garbage player by any means (though not sure why he keeps mentioning post play, most people are aware Vuc has been a post player most of his career), but really LMA edges him out in all the important stats, and imo the individual stats like reb% blk% etc go to Vuc as a product of being the best player (most likely) on a trash team for years wheres LMA has played on playoff teams his entire career.

Not Chinook apparently :lol


You're also completely dismissing that this dude is injury prone as fuck, and has never managed to play a full season and has multiple years missing 15+ games with injury, including 57 games played in 2014 and only 57 last year. Young big missing that many games before 30 years old is a red flag tbh.

So, I guess i'm just trying to clarify what your argument is. If it's that Vuc is having a better year thus far than LMA and that going forward he will be a better player (not much of a reach considering he's 5 years younger) than yeah i guess i can agree. but if you're trying to insinuate that he has ever been a better player than LMA at any point in his career aside from the first 35 games of this year, then you're compeltely wrong. And seriously, watching 6 games this year and 12 over the past 2-3 seasons doesnt make you an expert on Vucevic, so get off the high horse and stop acting like no one knows what theyre talking about because you watched a handful of games and dont think anyone else on ST has league pass :lol

Well yeah, that has been my take pretty much all along. :lol

Also, the fact that Vucevic is easier to integrate to a team, than Aldridge, because he doesn't need to be the focal point of an offense to be productive. He can get his within the flow of the offense.