Murray is expendable

[FkLA]

Seriously, White is just better and since both need the ball in their hands a lot there's no room for both of them (+ Derozan) on the same team unless you want to relegate White to just a spot-up shooter.

Package him with Pau's contract + some 1st Rounders to get that much needed SF.

[tknapp777]

Agreed

[Mr. Body]

1. What SF? And don't say Otto Porter.

2. No.

[NickiRasgo]

Let him run the bench along with LW.

[timvp]

Meh, I don't classify either player as someone who needs the ball a lot.

What I'm looking forward to is dat D. Murray pressuring ballhandlers and White taking the main scorer ... that's one high ceiling for a defense, tbh.

[Flawless]

I wouldnt trade him, we have a really good backcourt developing, and both players are defensive studs. White can move without the ball in his hands very well.

[Fusternino]

Awful take.

[Mugen]

They're actually a pretty good fit together tbh. Demar's fit with two is probably more iffy but that's a solvable problem IMO.

[DAF86]

Meh, I don't classify either player as someone who needs the ball a lot.

What I'm looking forward to is dat D. Murray pressuring ballhandlers and White taking the main scorer ... that's one high ceiling for a defense, tbh.

Yeah, I wouldn't say Murray's problem is that he needs the ball on his hands. His problem is his shooting, which would make an awful fit alongside DeRozan and Aldridge.

[TDMVPDPOY]

white>first year murray given the many opportunities he had, didnt do much

murray if he doesnt develop a reliable jumpshot or stretch the floor, then his expendable, same could be said about walker

but both are on dirt cheap deals anyway....

murray and walker, one of them have to become a 3d player or at least be able to play positionless on t he perimeter where they can do everything but master of none...

[Mikeanaro]

+1 :tu

[TDMVPDPOY]

going from kawhi, green, simmons, anderson

to

dd, white, gay, walker, murray....

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Nothing expendable about a long athletic defender who when teamed with White can shut down the opposing backcourt. Seriously those 2 should play really well with each other. Murray should come off the bench his first year back from injury though.

[FkLA]

Because of his shot, unless you hand him the reigns to the offense, how will Murray ever amount to anything on that end of the court? Whether it's to playmake or score he needs the ball in his hands. He will only stunt White's growth, imo.

[SpurPadre]

Nothing expendable about a long athletic defender who when teamed with White can shut down the opposing backcourt. Seriously those 2 should play really well with each other. Murray should come off the bench his first year back from injury though.

Unlike Kawhi, Murray isn't a bitch. He'll start AND play back to backs, tbh.

[gambit1990]

:lmao

so dumb.

even if you move him you don’t move him while he’s injuried :lol you wait until he’s healthy and playing so his trade value goes up.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Unlike Kawhi, Murray isn't a bitch. He'll start AND play back to backs, tbh.
I know he will put in the work. The dude is hungry and has an amazing attitude about basketball and the Spurs. Everyone on the team really loves him including the vets. But it just takes a while to be 100% again after a torn ACL. He will be cleared to play at the start of the season, but he will be super rusty on basically everything. I rather him start off slow on the bench and get accustomed to playing again than throw him to the wolves by starting him.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

rofl, just no

This team is lacking quality defenders I’d rather have as many as we can.

[palangi]

No way.
Start Murray with DeRozan
Then white and Walker off the bench.

Murray and white can get minutes together still. And Forbes is the 5th guard.

Fix the SF spot and we have something starting

[palangi]

.

[Barfunk]

I don't agree....

[Mikeanaro]

Because of his shot, unless you hand him the reigns to the offense, how will Murray ever amount to anything on that end of the court? Whether it's to playmake or score he needs the ball in his hands. He will only stunt White's growth, imo.
Thats my biggest fear, also dont want Spurs to lose games because he ¨needs to get the rhythm back¨.

To me Murray is a douche who should have stayed in college a couple years.
His rebounds and D are a distant memory during playoffs.
People like him and thats the only reason to play, not merit based.

[Dverde]

I can’t see White being a consistent #1 PG. Rather have DJ and Jilly.

[Mikeanaro]

I know he will put in the work. The dude is hungry and has an amazing attitude about basketball and the Spurs. Everyone on the team really loves him including the vets. But it just takes a while to be 100% again after a torn ACL. He will be cleared to play at the start of the season, but he will be super rusty on basically everything. I rather him start off slow on the bench and get accustomed to playing again than throw him to the wolves by starting him.
Bench? Mercedes Bench???
He needs to play G League or whatever is called these days, not ruin Spurs games in a busy West Conference.

[UZER]

Rambo, what mean expendable?

[SpurPadre]

Bench? Mercedes Bench???
He needs to play G League or whatever is called these days, not ruin Spurs games in a busy West Conference.

How quick fans turn on a player who got a REAL injury.

[TDMVPDPOY]

u telling a superior player in white whose hungry, to come off the bench after a scrub murray?

[Mikeanaro]

How quick fans turn on a player who got a REAL injury.
Nope, even nephew played some D league to recover from injuries in the past.
Spurs are doing great, no need to lose games, specially for a guy with no 3 pointers and shots in general.
We have DeRozan and Aldridge for regular and long 2´s.

[BackHome]

Fucking retard you all were saying White sucks a week ago and now your like Murray has to go. We not letting Murray go and it’s nice to have depth for a change cause if White goes down Mills is the back up. Fuck that.

[Immortal Spur]

Now Murray is a scrub and expendable... wow

one of the best rebounding guards in the league and 2nd team defense... a one man fast break and a jumper away from being all star material.

Nuts is is all I got to say...

[Mikeanaro]

Fucking retard you all were saying White sucks a week ago and now your like Murray has to go. We not letting Murray go and it’s nice to have depth for a change cause if White goes down Mills is the back up. Fuck that.
Mills is not the best PG by a long mile, but has gigantic balls, sunk lots of 3s this season, can Murray do that?
And then you have Forbes who is improving...

[skin27]

This is what I’m thinking too, patfo should choose who will be the primary pg between white and Murray..

[playbonner15]

Want to see Dejounte White Walker first

[SpurPadre]

Now Murray is a scrub and expendable... wow

one of the best rebounding guards in the league and 2nd team defense... a one man fast break and a jumper away from being all star material.

Nuts is is all I got to say...

And there were signs his jumper was coming along before his injury. Murray is going to be a special player and we will hold onto him for the long run.

[skin27]

Want to see Dejounte White Walker first


nope you won’t see that..unless it’s garbage time..

[alpha_HaZE]

He is expendable only for AD.

[Immortal Spur]

Murray/White/DeRozan/Bertans/LMA
Forbes/Walker/Belinelli/Gay/Poeltl

Just start Murray and White and move Forbes to the bench along with Gay and put Bertans in for spacing... that should be enough firepower to make it work especially if Murray has any kind of jumper.
From what many thought was a team devoid of talent looks pretty darn deep now and we have two firsts...

[MaNu4Tres]

Play Dejounte & Derrick together.

Play Forbes & Lonnie together off the bench.

Demote Patty & Belinelli will be gone.

Case closed.

[Immortal Spur]

And there were signs his jumper was coming along before his injury. Murray is going to be a special player and we will hold onto him for the long run.
Exactly. He looked special in preseason.

[SAGirl]

Have to see him next season. It's premature.

[J_Paco]

Seriously, White is just better and since both need the ball in their hands a lot there's no room for both of them (+ Derozan) on the same team unless you want to relegate White to just a spot-up shooter.

Package him with Pau's contract + some 1st Rounders to get that much needed SF.

No offense, but this is a short-sighted take. The Spurs could have four quality guards (White, Murray, DeRozan & Walker) next season and potentially 2 1st round pick this summer. No reason to blow all that to take someone's retread that didn't work out (Stanley Johnson, Terrence Ross or the sort).

Build with these young guards especially with the defensive potential of White, Murray and the athleticism, explosiveness of Walker. And they'll have Derozan who can match up to SF and Forbes as an outside shooting threat.

The two that are expendable are the overpaid, aging, inconsistent veterans in Mills and Belinelli. They should look to unload one or both by next July, IMO.

[313]

Advanced


Season
Age
Tm
Lg
Pos
G
MP
PER
TS%
3PAr
FTr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%

OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48

OBPM
DBPM
BPM
VORP






2017-18 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murrade01/gamelog/2018/)
21
SAS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2018.html)
NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018.html)
PG
81
1743
15.1
.485
.056
.243
7.0
22.4
14.6
20.2
2.8
1.5
16.6
20.7

-0.2
3.4
3.2
.087

-2.2
3.4
1.2
1.4





2018-19 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whitede01/gamelog/2019/)
24
SAS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2019.html)
NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2019.html)
PG
29
650
11.7
.509
.276
.171
1.9
12.5
7.2
20.9
2.2
1.4
17.7
16.0

0.1
0.7
0.7
.054

-1.6
0.8
-0.8
0.2



-
Per 36 Minutes


Season
Age
Tm
Lg
Pos
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
2P
2PA
2P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS






2017-18 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murrade01/gamelog/2018/)
21
SAS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2018.html)
NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018.html)
PG
81
48
1743
5.6
12.6
.443
0.2
0.7
.265
5.4
11.9
.454
2.2
3.1
.709
2.3
7.2
9.5
4.8
2.0
0.6
2.8
3.1
13.5





2018-19 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whitede01/gamelog/2019/)
24
SAS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2019.html)
NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2019.html)
PG
29
17
650
4.4
10.0
.436
0.8
2.8
.300
3.5
7.3
.489
1.4
1.7
.806
0.6
4.2
4.8
5.6
1.6
0.6
2.3
2.7
11.0





2.3 ORBs per game :wow

[Mikeanaro]

Honestly I dont get the hype...

[313]

Murray's DBPM (3.4) in his second season, matched Kawhi's career high(3.5; 2015. hasn't reached 3 since, excluding '17/18, 9 games played)

edit: Bowen never posted a year over 2.5. Danny Green never posted a year over 3.

Timmy averaged 4 for his career. :wow

[Immortal Spur]

The age is very telling too... White is much older

[marinoman]

Play Dejounte & Derrick together.

Play Forbes & Lonnie together off the bench.

Demote Patty & Belinelli will be gone.

Case closed.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Now we’re going to have the Murray v White debate to replace Parker v Manu. I can’t wait.

[Mikeanaro]

Advanced


Season
Age
Tm
Lg
Pos
G
MP
PER
TS%
3PAr
FTr
ORB%
DRB%
TRB%
AST%
STL%
BLK%
TOV%
USG%

OWS
DWS
WS
WS/48

OBPM
DBPM
BPM
VORP






2017-18 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murrade01/gamelog/2018/)
21
SAS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2018.html)
NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018.html)
PG
81
1743
15.1
.485
.056
.243
7.0
22.4
14.6
20.2
2.8
1.5
16.6
20.7

-0.2
3.4
3.2
.087

-2.2
3.4
1.2
1.4





2018-19 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whitede01/gamelog/2019/)
24
SAS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2019.html)
NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2019.html)
PG
29
650
11.7
.509
.276
.171
1.9
12.5
7.2
20.9
2.2
1.4
17.7
16.0

0.1
0.7
0.7
.054

-1.6
0.8
-0.8
0.2



-
Per 36 Minutes


Season
Age
Tm
Lg
Pos
G
GS
MP
FG
FGA
FG%
3P
3PA
3P%
2P
2PA
2P%
FT
FTA
FT%
ORB
DRB
TRB
AST
STL
BLK
TOV
PF
PTS






2017-18 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murrade01/gamelog/2018/)
21
SAS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2018.html)
NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2018.html)
PG
81
48
1743
5.6
12.6
.443
0.2
0.7
.265
5.4
11.9
.454
2.2
3.1
.709
2.3
7.2
9.5
4.8
2.0
0.6
2.8
3.1
13.5





2018-19 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whitede01/gamelog/2019/)
24
SAS (https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2019.html)
NBA (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2019.html)
PG
29
17
650
4.4
10.0
.436
0.8
2.8
.300
3.5
7.3
.489
1.4
1.7
.806
0.6
4.2
4.8
5.6
1.6
0.6
2.3
2.7
11.0





2.3 ORBs per game :wow
6´5¨ guards are not for rebounding, do you see him battling with Steven Adams or Embiid, Nurkic, Jokic?


Murray's DBPM in his second season, matched Kawhi's career high
De Angelo Russell also had better reflexes than Magic, Kidd and I dont now who else, what happened?

Bonner the stats king.

Then he shits his pants in serious games, please.

[wildcardX]

Murray and Walker are younger than White and still have a lot of time to develop. Murray is out until next year, he has all this time to work on his shooting and bulk up. Walker needs to slowly work his way up without any more knee issues. With White playing well, there is no rush for the other two to quickly join the team.

[Mikeanaro]

The age is very telling too... White is much older
Agreed, White is 24 and Murray is 22.
According to millennial stats White should be near retirement.
Bowen and Manu were dinosaurs, why the hell they played?

[Seventyniner]

Parker eventually developed a consistent jumper, so we can't rule out Murray doing the same. Those summer workout videos show that it's at least possible. His ceiling is too high to just use him as a sweetener, but for the right deal I would trade just about anyone on this team.

[313]

De Angelo Russell also had better reflexes than Magic, Kidd and I dont now who else, what happened?

Bonner the stats king.

Then he shits his pants in serious games, please.
what are you talking about :lol

[J_Paco]

Now we’re going to have the Murray v White debate to replace Parker v Manu. I can’t wait.

The fanbase is extremely stupid in that sense. As if either/or arguments are necessary when the Spurs still control both players under rookie scale contracts, although Murray will be available for an extension soon.

[timtonymanu]

Play Dejounte & Derrick together.

Play Forbes & Lonnie together off the bench.

Demote Patty & Belinelli will be gone.

Case closed.

:tu

[YGWHI]

Don' get this thread. Murray and White could co-exist on court well


Honestly I dont get the hype...
This coming from a big Manu's fan?

How can you not see some Manu in Derrick White?. I'm not saying he will be that great/have that successful career but there are still some Derrick's performances that remind me of Manu.

[DeRozan m8]

going from kawhi, green, simmons, anderson

to

dd, white, gay, walker, murray....

Well, apart from Kawhi, id take that second option tbh

I mean, I loved Simmons but he wasn't great.
Green was done with us.
Was stoked to see the back of that big fat head.

[Immortal Spur]

Agreed, White is 24 and Murray is 22.
According to millennial stats White should be near retirement.
Bowen and Manu were dinosaurs, why the hell they played?
Says 21 and 24 chief... but I see what you did there. Wasn’t White a four year player? Murray came out as a freshman. Murray has elite tools. Don’t know what you are arguing...

[Mikeanaro]

what are you talking about :lol
The whole Dejounte Murray phenomena is very interesting to me.
I dont get the fascination you guys have for such a mediocre player.

I remember him kissing Lebron´s ass like they were brothers, Lebron never came.
His training with Kawhi to be the big next thing, then he had a very pedorro year and next thing Kiwi is out of SA.

Then those empty stats and people act like he is 20 year old Magic Johnson.

[TDMVPDPOY]

murrays rebs are misleading since he crashes the boards which is not a requirement for pgs/sg...but better then nothing...just like kidd/westbrook who crashes the boards to pad triple double s tats that dont equate to shit

[Mikeanaro]

Says 21 and 24 chief... but I see what you did there. Wasn’t White a four year player? Murray came out as a freshman. Murray has elite tools. Don’t know what you are arguing...


Position
Point guard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_guard)


League
NBA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_Association)


Personal information


Born
September 19, 1996 (age 22)
Seattle, Washingto
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle)




Wikipedia...

[J_Paco]

Agreed, White is 24 and Murray is 22.
According to millennial stats White should be near retirement.
Bowen and Manu were dinosaurs, why the hell they played?

Did you fall and injure your head or were you lobotomized when Manu retired? Nothing you write is coherent or makes sense, man.......

The Spurs don't have to choice between either guy since Murray is out with injury and White is available to play. Next season, when this discussion would make a bit of sense, they can start either and the other can be 6th man. I'd eventually think that Murray would be the long-term starter since he's younger, more athletic and has a higher ceiling....

White looks to have the perfect skillset to replicate a lot of what Ginobili brought to the team (big guard playmaking, slashing, outside shooting and quality defense).

[BD24]

Murray and White should actually be a pretty good pairing. Defensively they will be a terror.

[Mikeanaro]

murrays rebs are misleading since he crashes the boards which is not a requirement for pgs/sg...but better then nothing...just like kidd/westbrook who crashes the boards to pad triple double s tats that dont equate to shit
But OKC fans creamed their pants while watching every rebound, right?
Tell me yeah yeah yeah.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NearQuaintEmperorshrimp-small.gif

[Mikeanaro]

Did you fall and injure your head or were you lobotomized when Manu retired? Nothing you write is coherent or makes sense, man.......

The Spurs don't have to choice between either guy since Murray is out with injury and White is available to play. Next season, when this discussion would make a bit of sense, they can start either and the other can be 6th man. I'd eventually think that Murray would be the long-term starter since he's younger, more athletic and has a higher ceiling....

White looks to have the perfect skillset to replicate a lot of what Ginobili brought to the team (big guard playmaking, slashing, outside shooting and quality defense).
Fucking idiot, of course Im talking about next season.
Did you read the thread or just were wanking while guessing stuff?
Is that big tit gif evidence that you need to show you like women?
We are all big guys here, we know what a pussy is.

Dont even try to talk BB with me, go jizz somewhere else.

[SpursGenius]

No way.
Start Murray with DeRozan
Then white and Walker off the bench.

Murray and white can get minutes together still. And Forbes is the 5th guard.

Fix the SF spot and we have something starting


Why os everyone so blind to the fact that Derozan can be and is a small forward now. The guy hasn’t developed a three point shot, he is thirty. He can’t be a guard in this new league shooting 17 percent from three.

[Mikeanaro]

Another Murray thought...
Kiwi got out of town, so a possible ¨Nope Im better staying in SA because with my nigga Dijon, a super evolving talent we are going to win 5 championships¨...
Never happened.

[wildcardX]

White and Forbes have made big leaps in their development this year. Would it be safe to assume Murray will make that same jump being that he's just as driven, younger, and more athletic than the other two?

[szkorhetz]

White had Kobe like intensity. Love it

[Mikeanaro]

White and Forbes have made big leaps in their development this year. Would it be safe to assume Murray will make that same jump being that he's just as driven, younger, and more athletic than the other two?
Totally possible I say, but my point is younger doesnt mean he will be better, nothing is sure in sports, lots of players come and go.
Some even improve to be solid pieces when they get older, like JaVale.

[J_Paco]

Fucking idiot, of course Im talking about next season.
Did you read the thread or just were wanking while guessing stuff?
Is that big tit gif evidence that you need to show you like women?
We are all big guys here, we know what a pussy is.

Dont even try to talk BB with me, go jizz somewhere else.

LOL

What?

That has been my sig forever, so why would I just change it now (especially when I post on my phone and not on my CPU)?

Anyway, I gave all the reasons why keeping both and finding room for all three (four if you include DeRozan ) on the court could be advantageous for the Spurs.

In a guard happy NBA, no other team could throw out the possible guard rotation the Spurs will have next season. No, instead the team should throw that opportunity away (and assets) to appease the stupid, short-sighted members of the fanbase because of "reasons."

As if guards of different skillsets and styles can't play together or coexist?!

[Mikeanaro]

Dude, you are ignored, go to cry to your shemale door poster.

[Pavlov]

This thread is a bad thread.

[J_Paco]

White and Forbes have made big leaps in their development this year. Would it be safe to assume Murray will make that same jump being that he's just as driven, younger, and more athletic than the other two?

No, cause Kawhi didn't stay, other "reasons" (if they made any sense) and Mikeanero the idiot says so.....

[Fusternino]

Can't believe this thread even exists. We have the opportunity to never have to play a below average player in our backcourt and you all would give that away?

Unbelievable. Just absurd.

[Mikeanaro]

Lol, another ignored libbytardy, whats this?
The night of the living leftards?

[J_Paco]

Can't believe this thread even exists. We have the opportunity to never have to play a below average player in our backcourt and you all would give that away?

Unbelievable. Just absurd.

Morons like Mikeanero (or however you spell it) exist in every fanbase, TBH.

[tim_duncan_fan]

White is the better playmaker. Probably the better shooter at peak.

It might take some encouraging, but Murray could be the 2.

Honestly, if he really blossoms, Murray might have to become this iteration's Manu position and be focal point of the bench, particularly on O.

Let White start and get everybody going.

Play White, Murray, DD, Gay, and LMA to close games.

Ultimately, we need to keep and maintain the growth of both, if only for the ridiculous perimeter lockdown we will seemingly be able to enforce.

If Walker turns out to be a player somehow as well, shit will get really interesting.


Edit: Check it out. When the league was post-oriented, we had the Twin Towers. The notion of being able to create a perimeter edition of Twin Towers is enticing.

[John B]

That was my take before unless Murray starts shooting 3’s on a regular basis. But after watching White draining those 3’s I’m convinced Murray/White can play together, position less. Murray, White, Demar, Gay, Aldridge can be pretty lethal. Then stagger Murray, White and Demar with the 2nd unit. Although the 2nd unit with Mills, Forbes, Belli, Bertran and Poeltl has been very fun to watch, just need to insert LW4 in there. With Metu, 2 1st round picks in the pipeline, this team is stacked. We definitely need a 3 and D from those 2 picks or package with Pau, etc. Remarkable how just recently ST has been talking rebuilding. :lol

[BillMc]

I think we should keep Murray but I do wonder with the injury and White playing well, what the Spurs will be willing to pay him and if that could be a problem.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Remarkable how just recently ST has been talking rebuilding. :lol

Just wait until the next time LMA decides to get out of sorts lol.

But seriously, along with Aldridge being more consistent down low, the revelation of Derrick White has really given us the additional playmaker, perimeter D, and ball-hawkishness that the team was lacking.


I think we should keep Murray but I do wonder with the injury and White (and Forbes) playing well, what the Spurs will be willing to pay him and if that could be a problem.

ALOT is going to depend on whether Murray shows himself to be White's equal, better, or lesser. If he shows potential to be better than what White has right now when he comes back next year, that should mean potential All-Star and the front office will respond accordingly.

If he doesn't...we can all see that there is a competition for backcourt dollars. He shouldn't be caught off guard either way.

[spin8]

This thread is a bad thread.

[Hoops Czar]

Seriously, White is just better and since both need the ball in their hands a lot there's no room for both of them (+ Derozan) on the same team unless you want to relegate White to just a spot-up shooter.

Package him with Pau's contract + some 1st Rounders to get that much needed SF.
Dejounte is still a long way from being a starter in the NBA, but Forbes and Paddy don't make make anyone expendable.

[Mikeanaro]

Also last season Murray had the nod, playing important minutes while Forbes and White did garbage time.

[picnroll]

Now we’re going to have the Murray v White debate to replace Parker v Manu. I can’t wait.

You could smell this shit coming from a mile away. Dumb Spur fan always has to pit one player against another.

There might come a day where Spurs need to trade a good young player in a Hill - Leonard situation but discussing trading a young, promising Murray when he’s injured is the height of stupidity. And Pistons seemed to make Thomas, Dumars, Vinnie Johnson work.

[kobyz]

could be a good backup pg as a change of pace player...

[Hoops Czar]

Now we’re going to have the Murray v White debate to replace Parker v Manu. I can’t wait.

Not when you have a Bryn Forbes and Paddy Mills on the team. One starts and the other comes off the bench.

[SAGirl]

I think we should keep Murray but I do wonder with the injury and White playing well, what the Spurs will be willing to pay him and if that could be a problem.
Eventually you just can't pay everyone what they are owed in a fair market. I do think they will keep the better one but it's tough to make any judgement with Murray injured. It's just premature to comment too much about it without knowing how he will be playing post injury.

[slick'81]

I think wat u were trying to say was mills and his 50 mills is expendable

[phxspurfan]

White had Kobe like intensity. Love it

now White is Kobe? :lol

[slick'81]

now White is Kobe? :lol

people were saying he does shit better then mj

[r0drig0lac]

lol no way op


Now Murray is a scrub and expendable... wow

one of the best rebounding guards ever and 2nd team defense... a one man fast break and a jumper away from being all star material.

Nuts is is all I got to say...

yep, it's weird

[Spurtacular]

White has a couple good games and now ST is trading Murray. :lol

[skin27]

Now we’re going to have the Murray v White debate to replace Parker v Manu. I can’t wait.

parker and manu have different positions.tbh

[skin27]

i dont think playing murray and white together with derozan will click..demar needs the ball in hands to be effective..demar needs shooters around him like frobes instead of a slasher guard like murray

[cd021]

Yeah, with White, Murray, LWIV, and Poetlt that is a good core of 2-way players tbh.

[Stabula]

Murray remains a great asset but the only worry is how he comes back after tearing that ACL. That can be a career-altering injury.

[SouthTexasRancher]

Have to see him next season. It's premature.

This is the correct answer. SAGirl has it right. It's hard to evaluate and make such a key decision until we see how well his knee holds up and if he has lost any mobility.

[tbdog]

Murray is a better leader than we give him credit for. It looked like he worked really hard on the offseason. I am sure he is working hard on his rehab. Also, he is such a plus defender at the PG. Our length will be insane next season.

[Dave_ET]

Murray’s attitude and work ethic alone make him non-expendable. We’ve just scratched the surface on what that kid can do. I expect him to fully recover and continue his meteoric rise via a jumper and even more leadership next year.

He should make DeRozan an even better player using his body to grab attention from defenders, both in the half court and in transition. Also will guard the better opponent on D, freeing up energy for DDR on O.

Guard rotation next year:
1st DJ + DeRozan
2nd White + Forbes/Patty
Belinelli, Walker to fill in the cracks where needed, esp on D.

Buys us enough time (with very solid play) to figure out contracts in 2020.

[RD2191]

:lol deport OP

[Big Empty]

Murray/Forbes/Mills
White/Walker
DeRozan/BellyNellie/Metu
Gay/Bertans
Aldridge/Purtle

It could work. Its a great problem to have and if they develop into studs we’ll be able to pay them since LA’s contract will be coming off the books in two years and hell be 36

[KDKSpurs24]

This thread is a bad thread.

[Chinook]

White could totally get hurt or slump next year. Doesn't make sense to get rid of depth. The Spurs will have two first-rounders to use in June. After Murray and White were both hits in back-to-back seasons, you gotta trust RC to come away with at least one more good young player.

[KDKSpurs24]

This is an extremely stupid take. It’s like OP and some other idiots here are completely forgetting about something called improvement! Murray has worked so hard that his work will definitely pay off. He is also very tough and has great leadership qualities on the team. You don’t have to tear someone else down to build someone else up. Both can play together. The object is to have any many weak links as possible on the court. This is the new era. You do realize there is a team that has 5 all stars on the same team right?? You don’t just get rid of capable players! You would need BOTH guys to help defend premier wings. Just send Forbes to the bench and it will be an even better team.

But I’m glad you aren’t running the front office. It doesn’t matter because Murray isn’t going anywhere. He will make the team much better. You’ll see when it happens.

[Big Empty]

White could totally get hurt or slump next year. Doesn't make sense to get rid of depth. The Spurs will have two first-rounders to use in June. After Murray and White were both hits in back-to-back seasons, you gotta trust RC to come away with at least one more good young player. they will draft the next LA and bring him along to replace Aldridge in a few years

[Chinook]

they will draft the next LA and bring him along to replace Aldridge in a few years

Probably not, but there are a lot of forwards in the draft. Assuming they end up with like 22 and 28, they will get shots a multiple bigs, or they try to sell out to move up for Hachimura, Doumbouya or some other guy who falls into the late-lottery or late-teens.

[exstatic]

Murray remains a great asset but the only worry is how he comes back after tearing that ACL. That can be a career-altering injury.

LOL. 1975 says hello.

While it takes longer to recover from, as long as there was no associated meniscus damage, the long term prognosis for an ACL tear is better than LW IV. LW will be dealing with knee issues in his late 20s or early 30s like DWade.

[acoelho1]

How people forget. Murray had some huge games last year and when healthy, he will be our starting point guard. White is definitely a solid piece and it's nice problem to have 2 quality point guards but you don't get rid of Murry who has flashed star potential.

[RC_Drunkford]

Murray worked on his shooting this offseason. Let him get back healthy and work on shooting some more and he will be serviceable. The key to contention for the Spurs is to keep all of Murray, White, Walker and Poeltl and hope they develop into elite players before Aldridge declines

[Mugen]

You're only pause with Murray is that he's a LeBron guy so he's got some pretty garbage people in his eat at all times. That plus capitalizing every word and eventually being taken for half his money by that Insta hoe he's off/on dating.

But he seems to be great teammate, hard worker, and says all the right things about the organization. I don't think you get rid of him especially when his value is low AF with the injury. Pretty excited about the potential of a Dejounte/White/Lonnie trio going forward tbh.

[Dex]

Spurs finally have some options with young, developing guards and you want to just throw them away?

[MultiTroll]

Now Murray is a scrub and expendable... wow

one of the best rebounding guards in the league and 2nd team defense... a one man fast break and a jumper away from being all star material.

Nuts is is all I got to say...
Yep.
:lol Some STs not too basketball savvy.

[duncan2k5]

what a dumb take...who knows the season murray would have been having right now? dude is a triple double threat, and was improving his jumper...and isnt white like 3 years older than murray?? if murray was to reach white's age, and is on the same level as white, we would look at him as a failure

[HankChinaski]

I would like to see what this team ressembles with a fully healthy squad before jettisoning potential over premature player ejaculation

White has had a nice stretch of games. Let's see how he finishes out the season before making labels

[jjktkk]

In today's NBA, you can never have too many perimeter defenders. Why would you want to trade Murray? Murray and White could potentially become an outstanding backcourt.

[objective]

Murray can grab and go and push the ball and White can work the offense in the halfcourt.

Works for me. It might be true that DeRozan can handle majority SF as he ages, guys typically do age up a spot as they slow and get their mature man strength.

[superbigtime]

that would be a real dick move by the Spurs.

[EasyMoney]

I prefer the idea of starting Murray, and White leads the second unit

Murray/White
Forbes/Mills/Walker
DeRozan/Belinelli
Gay comes back?/Bertans/Metu
Aldridge/Poeltl

[SpursDynasty85]

He is expendable if we can get the right value for him. Not sure if we can especially with his injury.

Not sure why some aren't excited to see Murray and White locking down opposing backcourts the next 5 years.

[BOHOLANO#21]

Is this the same idiots that said Aldridge and De Rozan won’t work out because both are mid-range shooters?

[TimmyBuckets]

Murray White Derozan Gay Aldridge

That looks like a solid starting lineup to me. Murray can defend at an elite level. White can clearly defend at a high level. Derozan is much improved. Gay is OK at D, but not great. LMA is a decent defender. Murray and White would make a great defensive tandem. As for who has the ball? Derozan can make plays and so can White. Murray is another great rebounder and fantastic defender. I don't think he's expendable at all, especially considering our sparse defensive roster.

[timvp]

Murray's DBPM (3.4) in his second season, matched Kawhi's career high(3.5; 2015. hasn't reached 3 since, excluding '17/18, 9 games played)

edit: Bowen never posted a year over 2.5. Danny Green never posted a year over 3.

Timmy averaged 4 for his career. :wow

DBPM is a pretty useless stat, tbh. (Considering Robinson is 4th all-time and Duncan is 6th, it'd be cool if it was a legit.) DBPM is BMP minus OBPM ... so it isn't even directly attempting to quantify defense. On top of that, it's all based off of boxscore stats and I'd say 98% of good defense doesn't result in a block, steal or rebound.

[marinoman]

This is very smart, genius even
Trade an injured player when his value is at it’s lowest, we may get a late 2nd in 2021 for him

[spurraider21]

DBPM is a pretty useless stat, tbh. (Considering Robinson is 4th all-time and Duncan is 6th, it'd be cool if it was a legit.) DBPM is BMP minus OBPM ... so it isn't even directly attempting to quantify defense. On top of that, it's all based off of boxscore stats and I'd say 98% of good defense doesn't result in a block, steal or rebound.
what about DRPM?

he was #1 among all point guards last year

[spurraider21]

Murray/White/DeRozan/Bertans/LMA
Forbes/Walker/Belinelli/Gay/Poeltl

Just start Murray and White and move Forbes to the bench along with Gay and put Bertans in for spacing... that should be enough firepower to make it work especially if Murray has any kind of jumper.
From what many thought was a team devoid of talent looks pretty darn deep now and we have two firsts...


Murray White Derozan Gay Aldridge

That looks like a solid starting lineup to me. Murray can defend at an elite level. White can clearly defend at a high level. Derozan is much improved. Gay is OK at D, but not great. LMA is a decent defender. Murray and White would make a great defensive tandem. As for who has the ball? Derozan can make plays and so can White. Murray is another great rebounder and fantastic defender. I don't think he's expendable at all, especially considering our sparse defensive roster.
I agree with immortal tbh. While Gay's 3pt shot has been a pleasant surprise this year, he's never going to provide the same spacing that Bertans does. And right now our starting unit needs all the 3pt juice it can get, which is why Forbes has been so effective. I don't think you can just swap Forbes for Murray and hope for the spacing to work out.

A corresponding swap of Gay for Bertans could help offset it, though. Gay will also be a little older next year, and a decrease in role is expected. You would hope that by next year, Lonnie will have an acceptable 3pt shot, and so Forbes/Walker backcourt with Gay at the 4 will give enough punch off the bench.

[TimmyBuckets]

I agree with immortal tbh. While Gay's 3pt shot has been a pleasant surprise this year, he's never going to provide the same spacing that Bertans does. And right now our starting unit needs all the 3pt juice it can get, which is why Forbes has been so effective. I don't think you can just swap Forbes for Murray and hope for the spacing to work out.

A corresponding swap of Gay for Bertans could help offset it, though. Gay will also be a little older next year, and a decrease in role is expected. You would hope that by next year, Lonnie will have an acceptable 3pt shot, and so Forbes/Walker backcourt with Gay at the 4 will give enough punch off the bench.

Bertans instead of Gay can work too, but I think we lose a better playmaker and slightly better defender. Though, the shooting might make up for that.

[spurraider21]

Bertans instead of Gay can work too, but I think we lose a better playmaker and slightly better defender. Though, the shooting might make up for that.
Swapping forbes for murray is also improving playmaking and defense.

[Keepin' it real]

Awful take.

[DaBears]

white>first year murray given the many opportunities he had, didnt do much

murray if he doesnt develop a reliable jumpshot or stretch the floor, then his expendable, same could be said about walker

but both are on dirt cheap deals anyway....

murray and walker, one of them have to become a 3d player or at least be able to play position less on t he perimeter where they can do everything but master of none...

Walker & DJ only need to play good defense and able to create their own shoot off the dribble, which will lead to getting others open.. They dont have to be knock down shoots, just be able to create.

[DaBears]

Players that can create their own shot attempts & play D are more valuable than a straight spot up shooter.

[Keepin' it real]

I know he will put in the work. The dude is hungry and has an amazing attitude about basketball and the Spurs.

It's funny you said this. I agree he has displayed positive attitude since Pop made him the starter. But I recall his body language and potential attitude issues back in his summer league days.

And, if he comes back to find himself behind Forbes and White, I wonder how positive his attitude will be then.

[Keepin' it real]

Murray remains a great asset but the only worry is how he comes back after tearing that ACL. That can be a career-altering injury.

In the 1980s, sure. But today, it's merely a temporary setback. Heck, in the NFL, Adrian Peterson came back a year after a torn ACL to rush for over 2000 yards and win league MVP!

Murray will be fine.

[TimmyBuckets]

Swapping forbes for murray is also improving playmaking and defense.

Sure, I'm fine with either guy at the 4. Though, neither is a good defender. Man a 3 and D would be great.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

I don't trust Murray to ever develop a 3pt shot.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

It's funny you said this. I agree he has displayed positive attitude since Pop made him the starter. But I recall his body language and potential attitude issues back in his summer league days.

And, if he comes back to find himself behind Forbes and White, I wonder how positive his attitude will be then.
He never caused any problems or complained to the media. He cheered his teammates on and was genuinely happy when they had success as a rookie. However he just come off a year of being the man at Washington to where he didn't play At all his rookie year. It's a tough transition for anybody nevermind a 19 year old kid. I thought he handled it fine and has matured as a leader of the team since then.

[DPG21920]

DBPM is a pretty useless stat, tbh. (Considering Robinson is 4th all-time and Duncan is 6th, it'd be cool if it was a legit.) DBPM is BMP minus OBPM ... so it isn't even directly attempting to quantify defense. On top of that, it's all based off of boxscore stats and I'd say 98% of good defense doesn't result in a block, steal or rebound.

True. OBPM is a decent state because it adjusts for pace and it’s a lot easier to account for offensive box score stats as they relate to impact. Not perfect, but compared to DBPM its usable.

[paperboy77]

White being this good makes the other PG redundant and therefore expendable. Besides Murray’s shooting, his passing skills and peripheral vision suck. I’m also not sure he’s 2nd Team All Defence either. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him shut anyone down. Not really. The best thing he really does is board, provides toughness and maybe the ability to be a leader.

Still... it’s in the best interest of the team if Pop can solve this logjam of starting caliber PGs and keep them both. If DJ wants to stay essential to the team the guys got a shitload of work to do. (But we already new that.)

Good problem to have though!

[paperboy77]

Walker & DJ only need to play good defense and able to create their own shoot off the dribble, which will lead to getting others open.. They dont have to be knock down shoots, just be able to create.

Lonnie we don’t know but DJ has already proven what he can do. Yes there’s still time to improve but creating for others is typically an instinctive thing. His peripheral vision is not that good which makes being creative it even harder to learn. But the guy got hurt and lost this opportunity to show what he’s got. Feel terrible for him.

[Dverde]

You guys are completely overreacting to Derrick White. Two weeks ago everyone was saying he is a bust. He seems like a nice bench player with potential to be a reliable starter. He makes Patty Mills further expendable...that is all. We need a healthy DJ to compete in the West.

[koriwhat]

murray is not expendable when you want a back court to resemble the one we had in wingstop albeit a bit shorter in height. i can't wait to see what our defense will look like with both murray and white in the lineup together.

[SAGirl]

I don't trust Murray to ever develop a 3pt shot.

I am in the "see to believe" field. And that field requires that he play. We will see what happens next season. I wish him success.

[duncan2k5]

Is this the same idiots that said Aldridge and De Rozan won’t work out because both are mid-range shooters?

explain to me how they have worked out...maybe i missed something

[Pavlov]

explain to me how they have worked out...maybe i missed somethingYou missed last night's game.

[duncan2k5]

You missed last night's game.

ok so one game in a season that's only a quarter of the way finished means things worked out? clearly we have different standards...

[Chinook]

what about DRPM?

he was #1 among all point guards last year

It's fine. A lot of folks think it's the best we have, but it has its own issues.

Anyway, his point isn't that Murray's not great a defense. He's on record praising Murray's impact on that end. His point is just it doesn't make sense to use DBPM, especially to try to make it seem like Murray is a Prime Duncan--level defender. Tim is arguably the best defensive player ever. Murray still has a lot of room to grow even to become a complete defender in his own right, let alone an all-time great.

[Pavlov]

ok so one game in a season that's only a quarter of the way finished means things worked out? clearly we have different standards...Sure, your standard is things that don't fit your agenda cannot be accepted under any circumstances.

[duncan2k5]

Sure, your standard is things that don't fit your agenda cannot be accepted under any circumstances.

u guys are saying one games proves they meshed...and im the one that's off? lmfao

[Pavlov]

u guys are saying one games proves they meshed...and im the one that's off? lmfaoYou don't think they've made any progress as a team whatsoever? I do.

OK, that wouldn't fit your agenda.

[duncan2k5]

You don't think they've made any progress as a team whatsoever? I do.

OK, that wouldn't fit your agenda.

making progress doesnt equate to working out...our 2017 team was VASTLY better than this one, and one of our main guys didnt like his role and demanded a trade...this team wont even pass the first round of the playoffs...and LMA/DDR are notorious playoff chokers...i dont consider that working out

[Pavlov]

making progress doesnt equate to working out...our 2017 team was VASTLY better than this one, and one of our main guys didnt like his role and demanded a trade...this team wont even pass the first round of the playoffs...and LMA/DDR are notorious playoff chokers...i dont consider that working outOh, so you projected your agenda into things that haven't even happened yet.

lol

[Mikeanaro]

making progress doesnt equate to working out...our 2017 team was VASTLY better than this one, and one of our main guys didnt like his role and demanded a trade...this team wont even pass the first round of the playoffs...and LMA/DDR are notorious playoff chokers...i dont consider that working out
Kawhi was healthy in 2015, everything went wrong in the first round.
Is that a choke? he was the reigning ¨FMVP¨.

[HarlemHeat37]

Why does duncan2k5 hate the Spurs so much?:lol

[objective]

Maybe expendable if it's Gasol-Mills-Murray-1st-Milutinov for Anthony Davis.

Otherwise just roll with him. I worry about his skill development due to the injury, but looking forward to him next season

[GreekSpursfan]

I see no trade on the horizon, Pop is trying to build something and leave it to his successor, its pretty obvious. Spurs would never trade 1st round picks especially now that you don't have a real superstar. We dont have the assets for AD.

[spurraider21]

yeah, barring another find like kawhi, i'm still not sure what the spurs future is supposed to look like. i like murray/white a lot, but they are complementary pieces. davis is a good role player. walker isn't somebody we can really be banking on. LMA is at the end of his prime. we do have derozan for the next season or 2. but we dont have "the guy" who's supposed to take over and lead 3-4 years down the line

[FkLA]

Finally had a chance to read through the thread.

-Murray's "relentless" drive and work ethic. I have my doubts about it. He showed great flashes his rookie year (still remember his coming out party at CLE) and I was all in on him. Summer League going into his sophomore year he was getting all sorts of hype, the coaches were calling it his SL team/his time, we were all hyped to watch him dominate. I was expecting him to look like a man amongst boys out there and what did he do? Laid a huge fucking egg. So much so that the Spurs started sitting him to prevent him from embarrassing himself even further. Bryn was the one that made that team his and showed tons of improvement. Real hard workers don't feel the need to let everyone know how hard they work, they just do it. He's a good instagram baller but what is he doing when the cameras aren't on?

-His defense. Wasn't most of ST surprised when he was named 2nd Team All-Defense last year? Now all of a sudden he's being treated like he's this really special defender. I honestly think his rebounding helped him get the nod there. If he was just an average rebounder for a PG, the rest of his defense wouldn't have been enough. I think White is easily the better defender. I can't believe I read some people say White is only a good defender and that Murray is elite. :lol

-His value. Despite the injury, I still think he's a really highly thought of prospect around the league.

-Nobody is suggesting to trade Murray for a bag of peanuts. Yeah, he can rebound and he is an above average defender but a legitimate, long 3&D player would help in those areas + fill a position of need + be a better fit with the rest of the core. I wouldn't trade him for just any half decent 3&D guy but for the right guy I absolutely would. Maybe GS is just cruising, and maybe I'm being a homer and putting too much stock into how the team has looked the last month or so...but shit looks pretty wide open this year and I believe the Spurs would be right in the thick of things with a legitimate 3&D guy at SF.

[FkLA]

Is this the same idiots that said Aldridge and De Rozan won’t work out because both are mid-range shooters?

They really weren't meshing all that well until DeRozan became more of a facilitator and Aldridge started playing bully ball instead of settling for jumpshots and fadeaways.


You guys are completely overreacting to Derrick White. Two weeks ago everyone was saying he is a bust. He seems like a nice bench player with potential to be a reliable starter. He makes Patty Mills further expendable...that is all. We need a healthy DJ to compete in the West.

lol nice bench player

He is a better player than Murray in every single aspect.

[james evans]

white>first year murray given the many opportunities he had, didnt do much

murray if he doesnt develop a reliable jumpshot or stretch the floor, then his expendable, same could be said about walker

but both are on dirt cheap deals anyway....

murray and walker, one of them have to become a 3d player or at least be able to play positionless on t he perimeter where they can do everything but master of none...
Rondo. The ting about Rondo is that even though he couldn't shoot, his defense was insane and his passing was GREAT. Murray doesn't have Rondo defense or passing ability(but Murray is still a good defender). If Murray doesn't get a jump shot, it's gonna make Aldridge's life miserable when he's on the floor.

[Marcus Bryant]

Easy to player hate when said player is physically unable to play.

That White is the belle of the ball here lately is amusing.

[dbestpro]

Why would you trade any of Forbes, White, Walker, Murray or Bertans? That core, if it continues to get better, will hold the Spurs together for years. You could even add Poetl to the list. The future is bright. There is plenty of time to find that A level SF to throw into the mix.

[Maddog]

Easy to player hate when said player is physically unable to play.

That White is the belle of the ball here lately is amusing.

Yeah,
I think a bit of caution is needed here. It's only been a few games, but I'm encouraged. His skills look legit.

Murray, I've always been ambivalent about. Advance stats say he is elite defensively, but his lack of O....
PATFO are high on him as are many of his teammates.
Maybe DeMar plays a lot of 3 next year....

[TDMVPDPOY]

murray is vocal, but being vocal dont mean shit if your game hasnt improve or translated on the court.... does he really think its his team now since big3 is gone, kawhi green anderson also left... no vocal leaders...so he decides to be one? nobody is going to listen to a draft busts

[emanueldavidginobili]

I like White and I think he is going to be legit but he’s turning 25 this summer. God knows how good DJ will be by that age and it’s not crazy to say DJ will be better when he’s 24 then when White was 24.

DJ is raw as hell and when he was playing last year his minutes were all over the place. Sometimes 30 minutes the next night 6 minutes. His per 36 min last year 13.5/9.5/4.8 and 2 steals. In the preseason he showed flashes of his improved jump shooting. He’s still learning the game is still fast for him, it will slow down as he gets older and more mature.

Like some people already said, I like the combo of Derrick and Dejounte. Derrick runs the offense gets them set and creates with the nice pace he plays with. With DJ he can grab boards and go coast to coast something Pop was wanting him to do last year. The Mavericks have something similar to that with Luka and DSJ.

[emanueldavidginobili]

murray is vocal, but being vocal dont mean shit if your game hasnt improve or translated on the court.... does he really think its his team now since big3 is gone, kawhi green anderson also left... no vocal leaders...so he decides to be one? nobody is going to listen to a draft busts
Draft bust at 29th? What?

[DMC]

As soon as the Spurs drop a couple in a row again, "we're injured".

[Chillen]

No point in trading Murray, he's got plenty of upside left once the injury heals and his contract is low. Possibly a future all-star to.

[BackHome]

I always liked our team and I know we’re one player away from really taking the next step that’s when we started off crappy was hoping for a one year tank. But got to give credit to The coaching staff and players they really have turned it around the last month.

[Mikeanaro]

I like White and I think he is going to be legit but he’s turning 25 this summer. God knows how good DJ will be by that age and it’s not crazy to say DJ will be better when he’s 24 then when White was 24.

DJ is raw as hell and when he was playing last year his minutes were all over the place. Sometimes 30 minutes the next night 6 minutes. His per 36 min last year 13.5/9.5/4.8 and 2 steals. In the preseason he showed flashes of his improved jump shooting. He’s still learning the game is still fast for him, it will slow down as he gets older and more mature.

Like some people already said, I like the combo of Derrick and Dejounte. Derrick runs the offense gets them set and creates with the nice pace he plays with. With DJ he can grab boards and go coast to coast something Pop was wanting him to do last year. The Mavericks have something similar to that with Luka and DSJ.
I dont understand that reasoning, first he played a short rookie season like Forbes and White did, then he was training hard with Kawhi to be the best ever, what we watched? a 21 year old guy playing modern basketball having no shots, no 3 pointers, thats terrible.

He had a full season playing important minutes because Parker was injured so he shared quality time with LMA, Manu and everyone else.
On the other White played garbage time which doesnt help because its a mess so he never had a chance.
Forbes had his quality minutes, not like Murray but a lot more than White.

White has a very interesting speed, like he goes floating around.

Murray was one of those pet projects that stubborn Pop tried to feed his needs... which are beating those modern teams without a lot of 3 pointers.
But now he is having nice results with guys who shoot 3s.

I dont get when you say someone is too old to improve at 25, specially when guys now are playing until their forties.
Manu came at 25, lots of guys were younger than him, what happened? nobody had his tools.
Also Rodman came late, Robinson, Bowen, Gary Neal, Tiago, Oberto, Scola, as a Spur fan you should know age is not a big deal.

[Budkin]

Nope.

[emanueldavidginobili]

I dont understand that reasoning, first he played a short rookie season like Forbes and White did, then he was training hard with Kawhi to be the best ever, what we watched? a 21 year old guy playing modern basketball having no shots, no 3 pointers, thats terrible.

He had a full season playing important minutes because Parker was injured so he shared quality time with LMA, Manu and everyone else.
On the other White played garbage time which doesnt help because its a mess so he never had a chance.
Forbes had his quality minutes, not like Murray but a lot more than White.

White has a very interesting speed, like he goes floating around.

Murray was one of those pet projects that stubborn Pop tried to feed his needs... which are beating those modern teams without a lot of 3 pointers.
But now he is having nice results with guys who shoot 3s.

I dont get when you say someone is too old to improve at 25, specially when guys now are playing until their forties.
Manu came at 25, lots of guys were younger than him, what happened? nobody had his tools.
Also Rodman came late, Robinson, Bowen, Gary Neal, Tiago, Oberto, Scola, as a Spur fan you should know age is not a big deal.

Never once said he was to old to improve, I was just saying people are trying to send him off before we can even see what he develops into.

Derrick at 24 is a more mature basketball player let’s wait until DJ matures and improves before people try to ship him off.

Also age is a big deal when you’re young is what I’m saying, let’s give him some time.

[Degoat]

The spurs are in an interesting spot. We have a lot of young players were developing in Murray, Forbes, White, Jakob, Walker, Metu, and potentially Nikola milutinov eventually, plus 2 first round picks this upcoming draft. Will be interesting to see what they do with those picks

[MannyIsGod]

No he's not. Right now the Spurs look like they have a young core developing. Why the fuck anyone would want to be rid of anyone in that core is beyond me. Develop players. Especially young athletic players that have already shown to have a valuable skillset. At the very least, Murray is a defensive specialist and that is valuable as hell. But considering the kids work ethic and how much we saw him improve over the course of one year there's no reason to think that he's not going to be more than that.

Also let Derrick White have more than a few weeks of good play before we classify anyone as expendable.

[MaNu4Tres]

No he's not. Right now the Spurs look like they have a young core developing. Why the fuck anyone would want to be rid of anyone in that core is beyond me. Develop players. Especially young athletic players that have already shown to have a valuable skillset. At the very least, Murray is a defensive specialist and that is valuable as hell. But considering the kids work ethic and how much we saw him improve over the course of one year there's no reason to think that he's not going to be more than that.

Also let Derrick White have more than a few weeks of good play before we classify anyone as expendable.

Is Forbes better than Patty yet though?

What about Derrick?

[KDKSpurs24]

I’m tired of this thread. A lot of you keep talking as if you KNOW what Murray’s current skills are. He worked his ass off in the summer. NONE of us have no clue what level he would have been at right now (including me). So stop acting like you’re all know and wait until he’s ACTUALLY able to come back and play to prove himself. I know it’s a forum but this shit is ridiculous.

[MannyIsGod]

Is Forbes better than Patty yet though?

What about Derrick?

Forbes has played much better than I thought possible this year. Good call. I never saw Forbes being able to put together a stretch like this. I hope he keeps it up (although there is a part of me that feels it might be a house of cards).

[Mikeanaro]

I’m tired of this thread. A lot of you keep talking as if you KNOW what Murray’s current skills are. He worked his ass off in the summer. NONE of us have no clue what level he would have been at right now (including me). So stop acting like you’re all know and wait until he’s ACTUALLY able to come back and play to prove himself. I know it’s a forum but this shit is ridiculous.
Thread says he is expendable, I dont think OP meant he is garbage.
But lets be honest, you think he will be something out of this world because of one summer?
Like he will be a guy full of shot selections, 3 pointers, fadeaways, etc because had one off season training?

[Arcadian]

Or maybe the Spurs would be having a better season with him.

[SAGirl]

Finally had a chance to read through the thread.

-Murray's "relentless" drive and work ethic. I have my doubts about it. He showed great flashes his rookie year (still remember his coming out party at CLE) and I was all in on him. Summer League going into his sophomore year he was getting all sorts of hype, the coaches were calling it his SL team/his time, we were all hyped to watch him dominate. I was expecting him to look like a man amongst boys out there and what did he do? Laid a huge fucking egg. So much so that the Spurs started sitting him to prevent him from embarrassing himself even further. Bryn was the one that made that team his and showed tons of improvement. Real hard workers don't feel the need to let everyone know how hard they work, they just do it. He's a good instagram baller but what is he doing when the cameras aren't on?

-His defense. Wasn't most of ST surprised when he was named 2nd Team All-Defense last year? Now all of a sudden he's being treated like he's this really special defender. I honestly think his rebounding helped him get the nod there. If he was just an average rebounder for a PG, the rest of his defense wouldn't have been enough. I think White is easily the better defender. I can't believe I read some people say White is only a good defender and that Murray is elite. :lol

-His value. Despite the injury, I still think he's a really highly thought of prospect around the league.

-Nobody is suggesting to trade Murray for a bag of peanuts. Yeah, he can rebound and he is an above average defender but a legitimate, long 3&D player would help in those areas + fill a position of need + be a better fit with the rest of the core. I wouldn't trade him for just any half decent 3&D guy but for the right guy I absolutely would. Maybe GS is just cruising, and maybe I'm being a homer and putting too much stock into how the team has looked the last month or so...but shit looks pretty wide open this year and I believe the Spurs would be right in the thick of things with a legitimate 3&D guy at SF.
-Answer: what's he doing when he's not Instagram balling? videos with Jilly. Duh :lol

I precisely was very critical of him at the beginning bc he has a vocal presence and media presence about all that he was doing and it just wasn't showing up. He was also immature handling his terrible summer league showing but he was really young and probably was going to get traded in any number of scenarios back then together with Aldridge. But he came in last season and improved over the course of ig enough to give me hope. He's should have been still in a trajectory of improvement this year with more freedom and putting to practice what he worked on in the summer, but instead he lost a year of growth, development, and experience. Spending time rehabbing isn't the same as skill work. I just don't know what to expect with him bc it's not just the season lost, but opportunities for improvement. Still you got to see how he comes up next season.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I'll just say this:

Before he came back, Pop was talking like Derrick White was actually going to have some kind of impact on the team.

Pop also seemed to have some confidence in DeJounte.


We'll see if Pop is right.

[MaNu4Tres]

I'll just say this:

Before he came back, Pop was talking like Derrick White was actually going to have some kind of impact on the team.

Pop also seemed to have some confidence in DeJounte.


We'll see if Pop is right.

They all were/are extremely high on Dejounte & Derrick.

Dejounte was about to be a top 10 PG in the league.

Him, Derrick, Lonnie, and Bryn are a great young core to move forward with at the 1 & 2.

[TimmyBuckets]

They all were/are extremely high on Dejounte & Derrick.

Dejounte was about to be a top 10 PG in the league.

Him, Derrick, Lonnie, and Bryn are a great young core to move forward with at the 1 & 2.

[TDMVPDPOY]

dm top 10 pg in the league?? roflmao

[TimmyBuckets]

dm top 10 pg in the league?? roflmao

Offensively, probably a stretch (though I think it was possible), but defensively top 5.

[BD24]

White and DJ should be a lockdown backcourt. With their size either of them should be able to guard the 1 or 2.

[skin27]

this year's forbes is better than last year's murray except on defense..

[FkLA]

All this talk of his amazing work ethic. I guess being an instagram baller really does fool people into thinking you are a relentless gym rat.

[BackHome]

Man you liberals sure have a lot of Hate? Why you all so Mad? Who knows how good Murray could have gotten if he wasn’t injured most posters thought White sucked and Forbes sucked and now you all over their ball sac. You all some fickle bitches.

[FkLA]

Man you liberals sure have a lot of Hate? Why you all so Mad? Who knows how good Murray could have gotten if he wasn’t injured most posters thought White sucked and Forbes sucked and now you all over their ball sac. You all some fickle bitches.

https://am24.akamaized.net/tms/cnt/uploads/2015/11/We-got-a-badass-over-here.jpg

[picnroll]

Murray haters totally discount any offensive improvement, better form and results on his outside shot he was showing in pre-season before he got hurt. To make their case they revert entirely back to the past like nothing appeared to have changed from then.

[acoelho1]

All this talk of his amazing work ethic. I guess being an instagram baller really does fool people into thinking you are a relentless gym rat.

He only became the youngest player to make the all NBA defensive team in NBA history. He’s also the only player at his height or shorter to record at least 400 rebounds, 90 steals & 30 blocks. Pop and Ginobili are both on record that he will reach stardom and it’s just a matter of when, not if. Everyone on the team has spoken on Murray’s work ethic so I guess you weren’t paying attention.

[FkLA]

Why does it have to be Murray haters? I don't hate him, I just don't believe in him as much as I believe in White. I think Murray will stunt White's development. Might even send White to the bench. I'm also looking at it in the short-term, it is a wide open race right now. Call me a homer all you want, but fill the biggest position of need and all of a sudden #6 isn't out of the realms of possibility, imo.

[FkLA]

Pop and Ginobili are both on record that he will reach stardom and it’s just a matter of when, not if.

Link?


Everyone on the team has spoken on Murray’s work ethic so I guess you weren’t paying attention.

Link?

[Chinook]

Here's the thing: I do think White is showing better defense right now than Murray ever did. When I think of what it means to be a great defender, it's what Derrick is doing; it's not blindly pointing to a stats sheet like folks do with DeJounte. But at the same time, you are what your numbers say you are, at least to a certain extent. Murray's defense isn't overrated as much as it's misunderstood. He's not a lockdown guy. He never has been, and who knows if he'll ever be? But there have been really impactful guys who aren't lock-down players on that end either, like Draymond. Leonard and Green were both kinds of defenders at once, so fans got used to that just being how it worked. Murray can get there perhaps, but right now, he's just a different kind of defender. Still valuable, but not a guy you can put on someone and expect him to lock the dude down.

Offensively, Murray's also a different kind of cat. He averaged almost 14 points per-36. That's pretty close to where Danny Green was in his two-way prime. Dude wasn't efficient and couldn't really shoot, but he'd have games where you'd look up to see he had 15 points out of nowhere. Just from solid minutes, I would have expected him to be in the 12-16 ppg range. He could just score points really quickly by running past everyone and outworking folks for tip-ins. White looks to be a better offensive player right now, but there'd be a huge niche for Murray getting second-chance points this year. Of course, Murray could have also gummed up the offense more than he'd've helped it. Him being able to provide spacing would have been a huge factor, because Bryn is elite at it, and White is getting better the more people get burned for leaving him open.

White and Forbes show obvious signs of work ethic. Murray is seeming more about "the lyfe" than those two, but that doesn't mean he doesn't work hard. He got praise for his summer work two seasons in a row. I really think the mess with Kawhi changed his mentality. Dunno if it was because he had a chance to take over the franchise, or if it was because he felt insulted that Kawhi wanted to bail on him, or because he felt like the team needed him to play better once they were going to be without their star. Whatever the case, dude immediately became a rallying point for the fans and likely the players. He deserves a chance to show what he can do before folks write him off. Even if White is better in every way, having a guy almost as good in some things still seems really valuable.

[superbigtime]

His Instagram posts are awful with the urban lingo and capitalization weirdness.

[Chinook]

Why does it have to be Murray haters? I don't hate him, I just don't believe in him as much as I believe in White. I think Murray will stunt White's development. Might even send White to the bench. I'm also looking at it in the short-term, it is a wide open race right now. Call me a homer all you want, but fill the biggest position of need and all of a sudden #6 isn't out of the realms of possibility, imo.

I don't see any trade that Murray could fit that Walker couldn't fit better. I don't disagree that Murray is and always was expendable in the right trade. But I'm not changing my stance on him if I'm PATFO.

[FkLA]

I don't see any trade that Murray could fit that Walker couldn't fit better. I don't disagree that Murray is and always was expendable in the right trade. But I'm not changing my stance on him if I'm PATFO.

In a vacuum I would probably trade Walker before Murray. But I just keep going back to White. Lonnie being a 2-3 doesn't affect White being the PG on this team for the foreseeable future.

[picnroll]

There is NO WAY that Spurs in Walker or Murray’s current states of development and Murray’s injury that a near term deal could get value in a trade for either that is worth the risk of potential sellers remorse on loss of a VERY GOOD player with return FAR LESS than loss. Not going to happen, Spurs aren’t that dumb.

[Chinook]

In a vacuum I would probably trade Walker before Murray. But I just keep going back to White. Lonnie being a 2-3 doesn't affect White being the PG on this team for the foreseeable future.

Don't want to see Walker at SF long-term, not even just in a rotational capacity. Dude is 6-4/5. I see him as a solid two who might get some PG skills in time. In order words, I think he, Murray and White all pretty much play the same position, though the other two have better chances of fitting long-term with Forbes. The task for PATFO is figuring out the best of the three and locking that guy up while keeping the cheaper of the other two. It's a little early to worry about locking in too many guys, but Poeltl will also have to be paid, in addition to DeRozan, Aldridge and Bertans all being up for new contracts soon. Figuring out how to handle this is definitely not straight-forward.

[CGD]

Spurs will give Murray time. I would, though, quietly see is the lakers would swap Ingram for Murray. Seems like Ingram is an odd fit over there with LBJ, (and Murray and LBJ have that connection). It would depend no how high they are on Walker, but if it works Spurs get their SF of the future while clearing a potential logjam at the 1 next year.

[duncan2k5]

Rondo. The ting about Rondo is that even though he couldn't shoot, his defense was insane and his passing was GREAT. Murray doesn't have Rondo defense or passing ability(but Murray is still a good defender). If Murray doesn't get a jump shot, it's gonna make Aldridge's life miserable when he's on the floor.

So we are gonna throw away a 22 year old Murray for a 35 year old Aldridge who has an antiquated game and won't help us win a ring? Not to mention has a bad attitude half the time?

[duncan2k5]

Murray haters totally discount any offensive improvement, better form and results on his outside shot he was showing in pre-season before he got hurt. To make their case they revert entirely back to the past like nothing appeared to have changed from then.

Exactly.. Look at diaaron fox... His jumper was a huge red flag, and he came into this season shooting 38% from three... Give young players a chance to develop... Murray almost certainly at 24 will be better than how white is right now

[FkLA]

Derrick White >>

[BD24]

They can play together tbh :lol

It doesn't need to be one or the other. White, Murray, Derozan would work I think.

Then Lonnie and Forbes off the bench, not sure if Pop will relegate his pet patty to 3rd string though.

[Mikeanaro]

He only became the youngest player to make the all NBA defensive team in NBA history. He’s also the only player at his height or shorter to record at least 400 rebounds, 90 steals & 30 blocks. Pop and Ginobili are both on record that he will reach stardom and it’s just a matter of when, not if. Everyone on the team has spoken on Murray’s work ethic so I guess you weren’t paying attention.
Manu says lots of good things about everyone, he brought Laprovittola who was a bust.
But a link to that would be nice.
Kawhi and Lebron must think different.

[Mikeanaro]

His Instagram posts are awful with the urban lingo and capitalization weirdness.
We ballin fam.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Offensively, probably a stretch (though I think it was possible), but defensively top 5.

top5 defense? roflmao, who has he or did he locked down last season? all he did was crash the boards as a pg, didnt shut anyone down... that all defensive 2nd team was a consolation prize by the nba for losing kawhi/green

[sasaint]

If Dijon has develop/develops a good 3-ball, he will be a good SG. He would make DeMar expendable - at a great savings. And DeMar could fetch an excellent SF in trade.

[skin27]

If Dijon has develop/develops a good 3-ball, he will be a good SG. He would make DeMar expendable - at a great savings. And DeMar could fetch an excellent SF in trade.


nope..I don’t think murray will become as good as demar..tbh..I don’t see it..he should fix his jump shot first

[picnroll]

If Dijon has develop/develops a good 3-ball, he will be a good SG. He would make DeMar expendable - at a great savings. And DeMar could fetch an excellent SF in trade.

That brings up the real question missed in the Murray/White/Walker debate. Coming off the 20/21 season Derozan and Aldridge will be free agents and Spurs should have a ton of cap space and well developed Murray, White and Walker on cheap contracts. How much will they be willing to put into an aged Aldridge and aging Derozan and who will they go after innfree agency? It’s a long game to be played.

[skin27]

That brings up the real question missed in the Murray/White/Walker debate. Coming off the 20/21 season Derozan and Aldridge will be free agents and Spurs should have a ton of cap space and well developed Murray, White and Walker on cheap contracts. How much will they be willing to put into an aged Aldridge and aging Derozan and who will they go after innfree agency? It’s a long game to be played.


the problem here is a lot of people think murray or white will become superstar or atleast all star caliber player..lol

they have a lot to prove..

[dbestpro]

Hate for Murray is a right of passage for Spurs players into stardom. Same thing happened to Manu and Parker years ago. Now, when we see Murray and White shut down the opposing guards next year, all those haters will be number one fan boys. The real question is how will Pop find enough minutes for Walker and Forbes as well when they all mature? Will Pop run 3 guard sets with Bertans and Poetl? Will someone else be added to the mix? In any case the future looks nicely set up.

[skin27]

Hate for Murray is a right of passage for Spurs players into stardom. Same thing happened to Manu and Parker years ago. Now, when we see Murray and White shut down the opposing guards next year, all those haters will be number one fan boys. The real question is how will Pop find enough minutes for Walker and Forbes as well when they all mature? Will Pop run 3 guard sets with Bertans and Poetl? Will someone else be added to the mix? In any case the future looks nicely set up.

One of them will be traded.

and no parker and manu are not superstars in the nba..maybe allstar

[ceperez]

Let's not talk about Murray until he gets court time to prove himself.

This is a BS thread.

[dbestpro]

One of them will be traded.

and no parker and manu are not superstars in the nba..maybe allstar.

Superstars are a media creation. It takes a team to win a championship. Great players, great coaching and great team work is all you need unless you are the man from U.N.C.L.E.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the problem here is a lot of people think murray or white will become superstar or atleast all star caliber player..lol

they have a lot to prove..

they will never be selected to allstar, as to whether their talents is equal to a player of allstar lvl is questionable....

[r0drig0lac]

Hate for Murray is a right of passage for Spurs players into stardom. Same thing happened to Manu and Parker years ago. Now, when we see Murray and White shut down the opposing guards next year, all those haters will be number one fan boys. The real question is how will Pop find enough minutes for Walker and Forbes as well when they all mature? Will Pop run 3 guard sets with Bertans and Poetl? Will someone else be added to the mix? In any case the future looks nicely set up.

Walker ceilling is the highest of these 4 players imo

[sasaint]

That brings up the real question missed in the Murray/White/Walker debate. Coming off the 20/21 season Derozan and Aldridge will be free agents and Spurs should have a ton of cap space and well developed Murray, White and Walker on cheap contracts. How much will they be willing to put into an aged Aldridge and aging Derozan and who will they go after innfree agency? It’s a long game to be played.

Yep. I have expressed my opinion on LMA practically since his arrival in SA. I would advocate trading him now while he still has some value and in a season where the Spurs will not win a championship. Poodle is a more-than-adequate replacement. I know - pipe dreaming. Pop is wed to LMA, and DeMar, too. But the Spurs have some difficult choices to make in a backcourt crowded with young guys with much potential. DeMar may end up bolting. Won't be able to keep 'em all, and the team desperately needs a legit SF.

[MaNu4Tres]

I can't wait until Murray & White are dominating opposing back courts for years and years.

Both are flat out studs but in different ways.

Just a heads up to some. You don't have to have a ceiling of a prolific scorer in order to be a great player. All you need are 2 or 3 of those on a team.

[ceperez]

Yep. I have expressed my opinion on LMA practically since his arrival in SA. I would advocate trading him now while he still has some value and in a season where the Spurs will not win a championship. Poodle is a more-than-adequate replacement. I know - pipe dreaming. Pop is wed to LMA, and DeMar, too. But the Spurs have some difficult choices to make in a backcourt crowded with young guys with much potential. DeMar may end up bolting. Won't be able to keep 'em all, and the team desperately needs a legit SF.

I've never been happy with LMA. But to be honest, the current system is working very well for him. Spurs are finding him very quickly underneath the basket and its punishing a lot of the modern smaller teams. Teams are just getting physically beat up by Aldridge getting the ball so close to the basket. I like it!

Now, I credit a lot of the blowouts to the presence of Poetl. A quick mobile big does wonders for the Spurs individual deficiencies in defense.

[sasaint]

I've never been happy with LMA. But to be honest, the current system is working very well for him. Spurs are finding him very quickly underneath the basket and its punishing a lot of the modern smaller teams. Teams are just getting physically beat up by Aldridge getting the ball so close to the basket. I like it!

Now, I credit a lot of the blowouts to the presence of Poetl. A quick mobile big does wonders for the Spurs individual deficiencies in defense.

Aldridge hasn't shown he is willing to be a punisher on a consistent basis. His preference has always been to shoot those 18-foot fadeaways. I don't believe the leopard has changed his spots. Sure, a game here... a few games there. But ultimately, he still avoids physicality as much as possible.

[ceperez]

Aldridge hasn't shown he is willing to be a punisher on a consistent basis. His preference has always been to shoot those 18-foot fadeaways. I don't believe the leopard has changed his spots. Sure, a game here... a few games there. But ultimately, he still avoids physicality as much as possible.

Perhaps. Who would you (realistically) trade for Aldridge this year?

Speaking of trades, perhaps an Enes Kanter for Pau Gasol trade? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycpwpbow

[exstatic]

Forbes has played much better than I thought possible this year. Good call. I never saw Forbes being able to put together a stretch like this. I hope he keeps it up (although there is a part of me that feels it might be a house of cards).

Forbes MASSIVELY improved when no longer required to run the offense. Like Patty, he’s MUCH better off the ball. The dribbling and penetration skills will help his jumper by slowing down close outs.

[FkLA]

Perhaps. Who would you (realistically) trade for Aldridge this year?

Speaking of trades, perhaps an Enes Kanter for Pau Gasol trade? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycpwpbow

:lol

[playbonner15]

Perhaps. Who would you (realistically) trade for Aldridge this year?

Speaking of trades, perhaps an Enes Kanter for Pau Gasol trade? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycpwpbow

No, Pop dont want no issues with Erdogan

[duncan2k5]

What's funny about this is we are saying this about a 24 year old white because he is actually playing... If he didn't play at all this season (like the 22 year old Murray hasn't)... We all would be saying he isn't ready (well except me... I've always said he needs to play, but because I said it, ppl dismissed it... And when I end up being proven right, they act as if I never said it)

[sasaint]

Perhaps. Who would you (realistically) trade for Aldridge this year?

Speaking of trades, perhaps an Enes Kanter for Pau Gasol trade? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycpwpbow

A couple of months ago I suggested LMA and DeMar for Otto Porter and Bradley Beal.

If Portland called, how about LMA and the Toronto 1st for Harkless, Leonard and the Portland 1st?

I don't see NY trading Kanter for Gasol.

[TD 21]

A couple of months ago I suggested LMA and DeMar for Otto Porter and Bradley Beal.

If Portland called, how about LMA and the Toronto 1st for Harkless, Leonard and the Portland 1st?

I don't see NY trading Kanter for Gasol.

I know you strongly dislike Aldridge, but that would be a historically awful trade for the Spurs. An All-Star caliber player for a banged up, middling, borderline overpaid role player, an albatross (though he is having a decent season) and essentially an equivalent pick. Yikes.

[duncan2k5]

I know you strongly dislike Aldridge, but that would be a historically awful trade for the Spurs. An All-Star caliber player for a banged up, middling, borderline overpaid role player, an albatross (though he is having a decent season) and essentially an equivalent pick. Yikes.

i'd make that trade in a heartbeat...addition by subtraction...LMA in cancerous and a choker...we need to drop him...we WILL regret not trading him while his value is high...hate me for saying it now, but mark my words

[acoelho1]

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Ginobili-thinks-Spurs-Murray-will-be-All-Star-12263781.php

[sasaint]

I know you strongly dislike Aldridge, but that would be a historically awful trade for the Spurs. An All-Star caliber player for a banged up, middling, borderline overpaid role player, an albatross (though he is having a decent season) and essentially an equivalent pick. Yikes.

I like both players. Plus, I think both could thrive with the Spurs - especially Leonard who can board well and shoot the 3 at a high percentage. Plus, I expect the trade of 1sts to improve our position by 8-10 places - or more. Basically, I am just never swayed by a strong performance or two by LMA or even by games when his fadeaway is dropping. I am at least consistent in my evaluation of him. Ultimately I agree with duncan2k5. After next season we will never be able to get any value for him. And I do not want to see him retire a Spur.

[stu scotts eye]

Aldridge hasn't shown he is willing to be a punisher on a consistent basis. His preference has always been to shoot those 18-foot fadeaways. I don't believe the leopard has changed his spots. Sure, a game here... a few games there. But ultimately, he still avoids physicality as much as possible.


You expect him to bang hard every single regular season game?

[sasaint]

You expect him to bang hard every single regular season game?

That's how big men used to make their money. I do not want a seven-foot marshmallow shooting mostly 18-foot fadeaways.

[stu scotts eye]

That's how big men used to make their money. I do not want a seven-foot marshmallow shooting mostly 18-foot fadeaways.

Name a big man in the NBA TODAY that bangs hard every game. Stop being such an old man who reminisces to the "good ole days".

You even got Boogie, Kevin Love, Embiid, Marc Gasol, all jacking up 3 pointers.

Ill hang up and wait.

[sasaint]

Name a big man in the NBA TODAY that bangs hard every game. Stop being such an old man who reminisces to the "good ole days".

The conversation really started with another poster's comment that he liked how the Spurs were currently operating, finding LMA under the basket and early, and how he was punishing teams that play small ball. It should work very consistently in this league today. I don't need to name any other big man in the NBA TODAY that bangs hard every game. It is doable. But even if LMA doesn't play in the low post and take advantage of his size every single regular season game, I still don't like the 18-foot fadeaways, just about the least efficient shot imaginable - especially against shorter defenders.

Why not just discuss basketball rather than throw in gratuitous ad hominem remarks?

[BackHome]

i'd make that trade in a heartbeat...addition by subtraction...LMA in cancerous and a choker...we need to drop him...we WILL regret not trading him while his value is high...hate me for saying it now, but mark my words

NO KY WAS THE CANCER AND HE GONE

[Slippy]

The conversation really started with another poster's comment that he liked how the Spurs were currently operating, finding LMA under the basket and early, and how he was punishing teams that play small ball. It should work very consistently in this league today. I don't need to name any other big man in the NBA TODAY that bangs hard every game. It is doable. But even if LMA doesn't play in the low post and take advantage of his size every single regular season game, I still don't like the 18-foot fadeaways, just about the least efficient shot imaginable - especially against shorter defenders.

Why not just discuss basketball rather than throw in gratuitous ad hominem remarks?

It was a relavent question to your point about resorting to the fadeaway which still requires Lamarcus to bang. You rather him attack under basket. Fine. Guess what all other premier big men do nowadays when they dont want to bang? They shoot soft ass three pointers never even bothering to venture inside.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I don't get the LMA shooting too many fade aways accusation when he's leading the league in post up scoring for the season and was a monster last season too. Sure his toughness varies from game to game but he's not young and he'd be a superstar if he was able to bring it every night.

Fun stat - his fg% within 3 feet has been elite the past couple of seasons. So elite that Tim fucking Duncan has had a better % only once in his career. LMA has been in Shaq territory %-wise near the hoop.

[TheGreatYacht]

Only players expandable are Danny and Manu :lol

[playbonner15]

I don't get the LMA shooting too many fade aways accusation when he's leading the league in post up scoring for the season and was a monster last season too. Sure his toughness varies from game to game but he's not young and he'd be a superstar if he was able to bring it every night.

Fun stat - his fg% within 3 feet has been elite the past couple of seasons. So elite that Tim fucking Duncan has had a better % only once in his career. LMA has been in Shaq territory %-wise near the hoop.

Good move on the coaching team to let LMA get the ball deep inside the paint before the defense from the other team can set

[Texas_Ranger]

Wtf, he aint old nor an action star. Why is Sly casting him? Also why make expendables 4? Ugh

[RC_Drunkford]

people here underestimate this kids work ethic. He's already back working out and was in the gym working with Davis yesterday. 2 years of shooting drills will improve his shooting numbers a lot. Especially when he showed flashes of good shooting motions since being a rookie. Pop putting him in game plan meetings will also improve his court awareness and he will know the sets to run even better. The kid deserves the benefit of the doubt. At the beginning of the season Spurs coaches said "You won't believe the leap they made" when talking about Derrick White & Murray. With how well White has been playing I assume Murray's production on the court will be similar. Also factor in that the Spurs play faster now and run in transition. That plays into DJs strengths

[sasaint]

It was a relavent question to your point about resorting to the fadeaway which still requires Lamarcus to bang. You rather him attack under basket. Fine. Guess what all other premier big men do nowadays when they dont want to bang? They shoot soft ass three pointers never even bothering to venture inside.

From 18 feet? No. Not punishing or banging to take an 18-foot fadeaway. Especially against smaller defenders.

It really is not relevant what most bigs do nowadays. But on the flip side of the coin, that inefficient fadeaway is as antiquated as the post game. It is a face-up game today. But the Spurs have always zigged when the league zagged. They are doing so currently. They are depending on the 2-ball while the league is 3-ball crazy. Fine. But if they are dependent upon 2s, they should at least depend on the most efficient 2s.

[sasaint]

I don't get the LMA shooting too many fade aways accusation when he's leading the league in post up scoring for the season and was a monster last season too. Sure his toughness varies from game to game but he's not young and he'd be a superstar if he was able to bring it every night.

Fun stat - his fg% within 3 feet has been elite the past couple of seasons. So elite that Tim fucking Duncan has had a better % only once in his career. LMA has been in Shaq territory %-wise near the hoop.

Fun observation: if he is highly efficient within 3 feet of the bucket, he should never shoot a fadeaway. One is too many. But that has been his favorite shot his entire career.

[RC_Drunkford]

From 18 feet? No. Not punishing or banging to take an 18-foot fadeaway. Especially against smaller defenders.

It really is not relevant what most bigs do nowadays. But on the flip side of the coin, that inefficient fadeaway is as antiquated as the post game. It is a face-up game today. But the Spurs have always zigged when the league zagged. They are doing so currently. They are depending on the 2-ball while the league is 3-ball crazy. Fine. But if they are dependent upon 2s, they should at least depend on the most efficient 2s.

in the last 15 games the Spurs have been elite from anywhere on the court. They shoot lights out, so they don't really depend on anything. They just shoot the shots the defense gives them and hit them at a high clip. Weather that's around the rim, the midrange or 3s

[sasaint]

in the last 15 games the Spurs have been elite from anywhere on the court. They shoot lights out, so they don't really depend on anything. They just shoot the shots the defense gives them and hit them at a high clip. Weather that's around the rim, the midrange or 3s

So, what about the 15 games before that? What about last season?

I am not sure I understand your argument. Because they have shot lights out for 15 games, do you expect them to shoot lights out for the rest of the season?

[RC_Drunkford]

So, what about the 15 games before that? What about last season?

I am not sure I understand your argument. Because they have shot lights out for 15 games, do you expect them to shoot lights out for the rest of the season?

last season was a different team and the games before those we started Cunningham. You don't have to be a genius to understand that

[sasaint]

last season was a different team and the games before those we started Cunningham. You don't have to be a genius to understand that

So, your argument is that because the shooting percentages are so great in your 15 game sample, shot selection is not important? Okay, let's just see what the next 15 games bring, and what the rest of the season brings. I do not expect the team's shooting to hold up any more than I expect DWhite's incredible individual shooting to hold up. I hope I am dead wrong.

[RC_Drunkford]

So, your argument is that because the shooting percentages are so great in your 15 game sample, shot selection is not important? Okay, let's just see what the next 15 games bring, and what the rest of the season brings. I do not expect the team's shooting to hold up any more than I expect DWhite's incredible individual shooting to hold up. I hope I am dead wrong.

Shot selection depends on what the opponent gives you. Spurs shoot open shots no matter where from the floor. And teams likely give you the midrange especially in the playoffs, so it's not bad to be elite from midrange

[sasaint]

Shot selection depends on what the opponent gives you. Spurs shoot open shots no matter where from the floor. And teams likely give you the midrange especially in the playoffs, so it's not bad to be elite from midrange

I am fine with being elite from mid-range - as long as our defense is dependable, especially against opponents' 3s. Taking what the defense gives you is great. But by contrast, a long, turnaround fade-away is forcing the issue. The defense is never "giving" you that shot; you are just taking it. You wouldn't have to fadeaway if the defense were "giving" you the shot.

[duncan2k5]

I like both players. Plus, I think both could thrive with the Spurs - especially Leonard who can board well and shoot the 3 at a high percentage. Plus, I expect the trade of 1sts to improve our position by 8-10 places - or more. Basically, I am just never swayed by a strong performance or two by LMA or even by games when his fadeaway is dropping. I am at least consistent in my evaluation of him. Ultimately I agree with duncan2k5. After next season we will never be able to get any value for him. And I do not want to see him retire a Spur.

Finally someone with the guys to agree with me publicly... We aren't the only ppl to feel that way... But since I'm the hated messenger, ppl keep that opinion locked away