Anthony Davis

[313]

What's up with this guy? Top 3 player, seven years in...and 1 playoff win.

Bad luck? Overrated?

[CitizenDwayne]

His teams have been pretty poorly structured for a big of his talent level. He should leave ASAP

[FrostKing]

Nitpicking but doesn't have the personal drive of an Embiid.

Davis reminds me of LeBron - coasting and having a happy time win or lose.

[Bynumite]

His teams were never that good, especially in the stacked west. There's only so much you can do when your best teammate is Jrue Holiday. Even the best PF of all time needed a "little bit" of talent around him.

[HarlemHeat37]

I still think he has the best peak ability in the league, but it's a bad look for the legacy when you miss the playoffs in the NBA in a sport where 1 guy can carry a team to RS wins..

Jordan missing the playoffs twice in the weakest East in NBA history is a massive indictment on his career, for example..

[TDMVPDPOY]

he isnt going to win shit in the stacked west and against the superteams

his better of heading west or teaming up with a superteam

[Down Under]

No gravity tbh. Not an great 3 point shooter & isn't a great passer either

[Mr. Body]

What's up with this guy? Top 3 player, seven years in...and 1 playoff win.

Bad luck? Overrated?

Badly overrated. Vanishes all the time. Doesn't make teammates better.

[TDMVPDPOY]

this guy has the same excuses as KG wolves..7 straight years without making the playoffs

[Pelicans78]

I still think he has the best peak ability in the league, but it's a bad look for the legacy when you miss the playoffs in the NBA in a sport where 1 guy can carry a team to RS wins..

Jordan missing the playoffs twice in the weakest East in NBA history is a massive indictment on his career, for example..

What is this, fake news?

Doesn't matter how you try to spin it, Lebron will never be as good as him despite playing in a stat-padded era.

[Pelicans78]

Mega talented guy who gets all the touches all the shots and if it were a different player or situation they'd call his stats for what they are

Statpadding empty calories.


Makes me question the Real Plus Minus Stats

ok guy plays 38-41 minutes a game

telling me that in the 10-7 minutes he is on the bench

the team just gets that bad?

In the Pelicans case, it's true because their bench is awful.

[Spurs da champs]

His teams roster construction has been a joke his whole career, but he was very underwhelming vs the Warriors last playoffs. I saw him get pushed around by Looney and Green too often.

[AaronY]

Holiday is a damn good player. defensive metrics always rank him among the top 3 point guards. Mirotic is very good too granted the rest of the roster is shit but it's a little ridiculous Anthony Davis gets blamed so little for how shitty his teams always do. look at the teammates Hakeem olajuwon dragged to a championship in 94 and Tim Duncan won with in 2003 and then Davis can barely went one fucking playoff series in his entire career??

I'm not even really bagging on him I just don't get why his numbers don't translate to more wins.

[Pelicans78]

Holiday is a damn good player. defensive metrics always rank him among the top 3 point guards. Mirotic is very good too granted the rest of the roster is shit but it's a little ridiculous Anthony Davis gets blamed so little for how shitty his teams always do. look at the teammates Hakeem olajuwon dragged to a championship in 94 and Tim Duncan won with in 2003 and then Davis can barely went one fucking playoff series in his entire career??

I'm not even really bagging on him I just don't get why his numbers don't translate to more wins.

Holiday isn’t that good especially offensively. His overall metrics are above average especially his inconsistent shooting and turnovers. He can’t run an offense which is why he’s been shifted to SG and his defense doesn’t translate to team defense since perimeter defense isn’t as important as interior defense.

Davis isn’t that kind of player who demands the ball consistently. He’s very good offensively and defensively but he doesn’t make others around him better. He also doesn’t have a reliable perimeter scorer, the bench is bad and Jrue Holiday should never be a team’s second best player though I think Randle and Mirotic are better overall. Also the team doesn’t have a lot of good shooters.

[Spurs da champs]

It's crazy to me how Marc Gasol has made his Grizzlies teams historically much better than AD has made NO. This team AD (they probably wont make the playoffs) has is arguably more talented then of the teams Marc Gasol has had and Gasol never had the numbers of an AD.

[Pelicans78]

It's crazy to me how Marc Gasol has made his Grizzlies teams historically much better than AD has made NO. This team AD (they probably wont make the playoffs) has is arguably more talented then of the teams Marc Gasol has had and Gasol never had the numbers of an AD.

Part of its coaching too. The Pelicans have never had a good defensive team with the exception of last season and this season the Pelicans are a disaster defensively. Also Mike Conley is much better than anyone the Pelicans have had especially his ability to run an offense which Jrue Holiday can’t do. Also Gasol has Zach Randolph for a number of years as well.

[Spurs da champs]

Yeah, I never liked the Gentry hire for that team and how Dell Demps still has a job is beyond me. :lol

[SuperCam]

future laker tbh

[HarlemHeat37]

What is this, fake news?

Doesn't matter how you try to spin it, Lebron will never be as good as him despite playing in a stat-padded era.

Fake news?:lol it happened in both 2002 and 2003..

[Will Hunting]

They should be making a coaching change. No team with Anthony Davis should be as bad as they are defensively.

[Chris Fall]

Sometimes overused and overstated, but I do believe the “era” argument does have some merit with Davis. Just over the last decade as the NBA has shifted, we’ve seen fewer and fewer centers or power forwards dominate the league. The best big men in the league now either have superior perimeter/guard skills or are complimentary and secondary players, not primary scorers or the focal point of the offense. And even then, how many PFs/C do we even consider superstars? Most NBA offenses now go through the guards, perimeter iso, PNR, perimeter side to side swing movement, drive and kick. How many teams actually post up a guy (big man or not) as their primary halfcourt offensive set? It’s outdated. Anthony Davis is stuck in a league where if he wants to have more personal control of his team’s success, he has to play more like LeBron or Giannis on offense and less like Duncan or Garnett.

Think about the history of the league MVP. Before the mid 80s dominance of Magic and Michael, for 30 years, the league MVP went to all big men except for Oscar and Dr. J. For nearly 50 years, Iverson was the only small guard to be league MVP. And over the last 14 seasons while LeBron has dominated the award and the league, not even counting him, there have been 8 guard MVPs, including small guards in Nash, Rose, Curry, Westbrook (I know calling him small is debatable). Guards impact the game way more now, so if a big man wants to have that type of impact, he has to play like a guard.

So for me, it’s hard to give Davis too much fault in his teams’ failures in the playoffs. I think more playoff success would have been available to him if he entered the league 10-20 years earlier. Not necessarily championship success, but way more multiple deep runs in the post season.

[TDfan2007]

It really doesn't make much sense at first glance, but it does when you look at his game.

AD is one of the most talented players in the history of basketball. He gets compared to Timmy sometimes, but he's more like KG. Like KG, AD is extremely versatile and puts up insane stats. However, his biggest issue is that he lacks the "gravity" that another poster mentioned. You don't need to double a guy who shoots a bunch of 3s, fadeaways, and floaters. Because of that, he's going to get his numbers, but his teammates won't benefit from his presence the way that Joel Embiid's teammates do. There's nothing luring the help away to open things up for his guys, and he doesn't have the court vision to be threading the needle to his teammates at this point.

The other area worth noting is defense, or lack thereof. It's mind-boggling that a team with Davis and Holiday can be so piss-poor on that end, and AD has to answer for that deficiency. A guy with his tools should be captaining a more dominant defensive. Some of it is coaching and schemes, obviously, but there's absolutely no excuse for this level of defensive helplessness.

[TDfan2007]

Sometimes overused and overstated, but I do believe the “era” argument does have some merit with Davis. Just over the last decade as the NBA has shifted, we’ve seen fewer and fewer centers or power forwards dominate the league. The best big men in the league now either have superior perimeter/guard skills or are complimentary and secondary players, not primary scorers or the focal point of the offense. And even then, how many PFs/C do we even consider superstars? Most NBA offenses now go through the guards, perimeter iso, PNR, perimeter side to side swing movement, drive and kick. How many teams actually post up a guy (big man or not) as their primary halfcourt offensive set? It’s outdated. Anthony Davis is stuck in a league where if he wants to have more personal control of his team’s success, he has to play more like LeBron or Giannis on offense and less like Duncan or Garnett.

Think about the history of the league MVP. Before the mid 80s dominance of Magic and Michael, for 30 years, the league MVP went to all big men except for Oscar and Dr. J. For nearly 50 years, Iverson was the only small guard to be league MVP. And over the last 14 seasons while LeBron has dominated the award and the league, not even counting him, there have been 8 guard MVPs, including small guards in Nash, Rose, Curry, Westbrook (I know calling him small is debatable). Guards impact the game way more now, so if a big man wants to have that type of impact, he has to play like a guard.

So for me, it’s hard to give Davis too much fault in his teams’ failures in the playoffs. I think more playoff success would have been available to him if he entered the league 10-20 years earlier. Not necessarily championship success, but way more multiple deep runs in the post season.

The bucks post Giannis up all the time, and so do the sixers with Embiid. The sixers and Embiid started struggling a bit when he started jacking up more 3s.

Overall though, yes it's definitely tougher to build around a big now, especially in the regular season. Big men play under a seemingly totally different set of rules, and you can't even breathe on perimeter players anymore. But these differences even out a bit more in the playoffs. Personally, I feel AD would be best as a number 2 scorer/finisher on a team with an established playmaker/perimeter scorer ala KG in Boston.

[Pelicans78]

Fake news?:lol it happened in both 2002 and 2003..

He was 38 and 39 LOL. No one in their right mind holds that against MJ and even with those two seasons his career WS/48 is still higher than LeRoids who's actually number 3 behind Mikan LOL

[Chris Fall]

I wasn’t suggesting post-ups don’t exist at all anymore. Only that by in large it’s not the primary set used by pretty much anyone anymore. The game is faster. More and more shots come in transition and in early (either delayed transition or pre-set) offense across the league in general. And most halfcourt sets are either iso or PNR or some kind of screen and move motion type of offense that does NOT involve low block (or midpost) post-ups. High post action is a lot more common, but to facilitate more so than to score.

Giannis gets more high post and midpost action where he turns and faces and still drives than actual low block post-ups where he’s expected to stay back to the basket and score off of actual post moves. Embiid gets more low block post-ups than Giannis, but I wouldn’t say that’s Philly’s primary offensive set most games.

Can you think of any player (big man or otherwise) in the league today who gets 30+ post touches on the low block (include midpost too) per game the way Shaq or Jordan would?

[FrostKing]

Fake news?:lol it happened in both 2002 and 2003..
Haha he came outta 3 year retirement. Started nearly half the games the first season

And the recent East was worse. The #8 seed Pacers in 2002 probably make the ECF during James run of success - Reggie, Jermaine O'Neil, Artest, Brad Miller

[Chris Fall]

The other area worth noting is defense, or lack thereof. It's mind-boggling that a team with Davis and Holiday can be so piss-poor on that end, and AD has to answer for that deficiency. A guy with his tools should be captaining a more dominant defensive. Some of it is coaching and schemes, obviously, but there's absolutely no excuse for this level of defensive helplessness.

I don’t agree with that. The style of play now requires more than a good defensive point guard and a good shot blocking center to make a team good defensively. The key now to good team defense is having multiple versatile defenders that can switch everything. Bigger guards that can hold their own when they switch on bigs, more mobile big men who can do a good job on guards on the perimeter. It’s not good enough for a big to camp in the lane, deter and block shots and rebound when so many more bigs are stepping out and shooting further and further on offense. It’s still valuable to have a good shot-blocking, rebounding big man, but teams can counter his impact with a three point shooting big man. And those are not as rare to find anymore.

It’s the reason why a jackass like Draymond Green can be perceived as such a great defender. It’s why a 150 pound Kevin Durant can impact team defense more than DeAndre Jordan. Shawn Marion and Kenyon Martin would be perennial first team all NBA defense now.

[marinoman]

The team is much better with mirotic, they won a lot with him last year and above 500 with him this year. They have to really push for Beal and try to salvage this season

[ambchang]

Fake news?:lol it happened in both 2002 and 2003..

Didn’t Lebron miss the playoffs in the same conference the following two years? Did the east got that much better?

[DAF86]

I don’t agree with that. The style of play now requires more than a good defensive point guard and a good shot blocking center to make a team good defensively. The key now to good team defense is having multiple versatile defenders that can switch everything. Bigger guards that can hold their own when they switch on bigs, more mobile big men who can do a good job on guards on the perimeter. It’s not good enough for a big to camp in the lane, deter and block shots and rebound when so many more bigs are stepping out and shooting further and further on offense. It’s still valuable to have a good shot-blocking, rebounding big man, but teams can counter his impact with a three point shooting big man. And those are not as rare to find anymore.

It’s the reason why a jackass like Draymond Green can be perceived as such a great defender. It’s why a 150 pound Kevin Durant can impact team defense more than DeAndre Jordan. Shawn Marion and Kenyon Martin would be perennial first team all NBA defense now.

If the Spurs can have a top defensive team with a 6'4" sophomore as their defensive ace. Then the Pelicans shouldn't have an excuse, tbh.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

The dude simply isn't a true number 1 option. He's like Garnett, talented but needs to be carried in the big moments. Thats why Garnett and Pierce worked so well together, pierce took all the big shots in boston. He puts up MONSTER stats and some of his stat lines make you go daaamn. But he gets pushed around in the playoffs, has no go to move when his team needs a basket, and doesn't know how to control tempo. Honestly you don't have to double team him bc he will shoot face up jumpers all day long if you give him space and that's not a winning recipe. He won't lead a team to the promise land but will be a fantastic #2 man for some team in the future. Not every great player knows how to win or lead and that's Davis.Hell Robinson had a very Johnson and del negro as his backcourt and he still made the playoffs. His numbers today would look MONSTROUS, which is why I don't put much stock in player averages today. This era is all about offense.

[Chris Fall]

“Top defensive team”

???

Spurs 20th in the league in opp FG%, 17th in opp 3P%, 19th in team Defensive Rating...

[Robz4000]

“Top defensive team”

???

Spurs 20th in the league in opp FG%, 17th in opp 3P%, 19th in team Defensive Rating...

Their defense was bottom of the league for the first month of the season; since mid-November they've been top 10 iirc. Spurs only had a third of their roster from last year returning and were missing their current best defender the first month. They play a gimmicky defensive gameplan that will get exposed come the postseason, but regular season-wise it's been effective.

[ambchang]

“Top defensive team”

???

Spurs 20th in the league in opp FG%, 17th in opp 3P%, 19th in team Defensive Rating...

I thought he meant last year with Murray.

[TDfan2007]

I don’t agree with that. The style of play now requires more than a good defensive point guard and a good shot blocking center to make a team good defensively. The key now to good team defense is having multiple versatile defenders that can switch everything. Bigger guards that can hold their own when they switch on bigs, more mobile big men who can do a good job on guards on the perimeter. It’s not good enough for a big to camp in the lane, deter and block shots and rebound when so many more bigs are stepping out and shooting further and further on offense. It’s still valuable to have a good shot-blocking, rebounding big man, but teams can counter his impact with a three point shooting big man. And those are not as rare to find anymore.

It’s the reason why a jackass like Draymond Green can be perceived as such a great defender. It’s why a 150 pound Kevin Durant can impact team defense more than DeAndre Jordan. Shawn Marion and Kenyon Martin would be perennial first team all NBA defense now.

The Pelicans have most of those things...

[TDfan2007]

Holiday isn’t that good especially offensively. His overall metrics are above average especially his inconsistent shooting and turnovers. He can’t run an offense which is why he’s been shifted to SG and his defense doesn’t translate to team defense since perimeter defense isn’t as important as interior defense.

Davis isn’t that kind of player who demands the ball consistently. He’s very good offensively and defensively but he doesn’t make others around him better. He also doesn’t have a reliable perimeter scorer, the bench is bad and Jrue Holiday should never be a team’s second best player though I think Randle and Mirotic are better overall. Also the team doesn’t have a lot of good shooters.

Pretty much this. But tbh the lack of defense has been the strangest part. They're scoring enough points

[TDfan2007]

I wasn’t suggesting post-ups don’t exist at all anymore. Only that by in large it’s not the primary set used by pretty much anyone anymore. The game is faster. More and more shots come in transition and in early (either delayed transition or pre-set) offense across the league in general. And most halfcourt sets are either iso or PNR or some kind of screen and move motion type of offense that does NOT involve low block (or midpost) post-ups. High post action is a lot more common, but to facilitate more so than to score.

Giannis gets more high post and midpost action where he turns and faces and still drives than actual low block post-ups where he’s expected to stay back to the basket and score off of actual post moves. Embiid gets more low block post-ups than Giannis, but I wouldn’t say that’s Philly’s primary offensive set most games.

Can you think of any player (big man or otherwise) in the league today who gets 30+ post touches on the low block (include midpost too) per game the way Shaq or Jordan would?

The Pelicans don't have the personnel to go into a 3 point shooting contest with other teams. They would actually be better served trying to slow the game down, but they don't. They just run up and down and don't play D. Unfortunately, most NBA teams are better than them at this tactic.

And to answer your question, no, I can't think of one, but Davis could and should be getting more mid-low post touches. Instead he's content shooting outside jumpers... he's not even a great 3 point shooter according to the percentages...

[R. DeMurre]

I think AD is experiencing the same thing Lebron did in his first seven seasons in Cleveland: his front office simply can't put a team around him, which is mystifying as I think he's the kind of player other players would want to team up with.
Holiday & Mirotic are good pieces, but after that it's guys that probably wouldn't start on any playoff team.

Davis has a higher career 3pt% than Russell Westbrook, a stat I find kind of hilarious.

[apalisoc_9]

Jrue is better than 35 year old parker and Lowry.

Its mostly poor construction. The talent is there but the personel is never suited to his ability.

I also think its partly because Bigs are much more difficult to build around than wings...since davis position is generally a role player in todays nba.

[apalisoc_9]

I think AD is experiencing the same thing Lebron did in his first seven seasons in Cleveland: his front office simply can't put a team around him, which is mystifying as I think he's the kind of player other players would want to team up with.
Holiday & Mirotic are good pieces, but after that it's guys that probably wouldn't start on any playoff team.

Davis has a higher career 3pt% than Russell Westbrook, a stat I find kind of hilarious.

Lebron made the finals.

[DAF86]

“Top defensive team”

???

Spurs 20th in the league in opp FG%, 17th in opp 3P%, 19th in team Defensive Rating...

I'm talking about the current Spurs team. Not the Dante Cunningham led one.

[Chris Fall]

I'm talking about the current Spurs team. Not the Dante Cunningham led one.

Did you really delete your other post saying you were talking about last year’s Spurs, then read Robz post and decided to make this an alternative reply? Maybe no one else saw it, so...

:tu

[DAF86]

Did you really delete your other post saying you were talking about last year’s Spurs, then read Robz post and decided to make this an alternative reply? Maybe no one else saw it, so...

:tu

You mean this post?


I thought he meant last year with Murray.

[Chris Fall]

The Pelicans have most of those things...

No.

Last season and even this year they’ve had to start 6’4 E’twaun Moore at small forward a lot because their “versatile” 6’7, 6’8 combo forwards like Hill and Cunningham and Wes Johnson and Miller suck. Last year, they played mostly with 6’1 Rondo, 6’3-ish Jrue, and 6’4 Moore as their core starting backcourt unit. No perimeter size, especially when both Jrue and Moore slide up a position each. Offers no flexibility or versatility defensively on switches. It’s pointless to have “versatile” hybrid forward defenders if they aren’t good enough to stay on the court.

A shot-blocking big man simply does not impact the game like he used to, when teams are attempting 40, 50 three point shots a game. The brick wall big man being minimized as much as he is, you cannot evaluate a team defense and put most of the defensive responsibility on him anymore. I think roster construction, versatile defenders, and scheme are more important in term success of putting together a good team defense than laying it mostly on the shoulders of your one defensive minded big man. How the hell do you think Slow Mo was statistically a plus defender on the Spurs? Scheme, good defensive teammates, size, length and versatility.

[Chris Fall]

You mean this post?

My mistake. Silly me. Thought you had posted that.

[FrostKing]

Lebron made the finals.
Does Davis defeat those Pistons? Probably not so Ill give James credit for that accomplishment.

[Mr. Body]

David Robinson's point guard for a long time was Vinny Del Negro. He went far deeper into the playoffs and won MVP. Anthony Davis just can't get it done, period.

[SAGirl]

Frankly one has to consider the Greek Freak being better at this point. I don't know if he is and not wanting to get into it bc I don't watch either guy on the regular. But the Greek Freak has the mean streak where he just wants to "kill you" if he can. Davis doesn't have it.

[Mr. Body]

Frankly one has to consider the Greek Freak being better at this point. I don't know if he is and not wanting to get into it bc I don't watch either guy on the regular. But the Greek Freak has the mean streak where he just wants to "kill you" if he can. Davis doesn't have it.

Watch the Pelicans when the game is on the line. Davis is just another player. He shrinks away.

[ElNono]

IMO, Unibrow has the LMA syndrome: as long as he gets his numbers and makes the all star game, he’s a happy camper. I don’t think he wants to get into the whole sleflessness and leadership thing to get to the next level. I actually think its very likely he’ll end up going somewhere with other stars and riding a super team like LeBron and KD did.

[skin27]

Like I said before this guy is overrated..no winning mentality


it’s either 8seed or no playoffs every year