Forbes Has To Go

[TD 21]

Not literally of course, but logically.

The vast majority of us have discussed ad nauseam the need for a 3 and D SF since the trade, but what rarely, if ever is brought up, is the need to create a rotation spot for said player. With Forbes' emergence and Murray returning next season, they'll have 6 to cover 1-3, without including Walker or filling the gaping hole.

Something's got to give. In an ideal world, that something would be Mills or Belinelli, for obvious reasons. Realistically, neither is happening though, again for obvious reasons.

Unfortunately, that leaves Forbes. Reminds me of Hill, in the sense that you know they'd hate to do it, but he's superfluous, his value is at its peak and he can help fill the exact same glaring hole that they had from '09-'11. Plus, it makes no sense to pay him his next contract, with bigger fish to fry in the back court down the line and the need on the wing.

Speaking of that need, virtually all of the realistic oft discussed names have significant flaws (overpaid, too old, too gimpy, not strong enough, not a good enough 3-point shooter either in %, volume or both). Might as well try to actually fix the problem as opposed to hope to.

Which brings me to Prince. Their current regime didn't draft him, he's almost 25, they're in pick collection mode and have an affinity for shooters. Forbes and the Spurs' 1st might get it done. He'd balance the roster and perfectly thread the needle between winning now and later.

[Pavlov]

Prepare for disappointment.

[Chris]

I think this a terrible idea. No offense.

[picnroll]

A backcourt of Young and Forbes. Nope.

[SpurPadre]

Forbes leaving would be the happiest I've been as a Spurs fan since 5, tbh.

[spurraider21]

RJ 24 with another whining thread

[ECOV]

Forbes leaving would be the happiest I've been as a Spurs fan since 5, tbh.

Sad

[DJR210]

Memphis is chomping at the bit to get their hands on Forbes.. trade for Jaren Jackson and be done with it

[SpurSpike]

Y'all stuck in the past,he has bulked up and increased his skill set to more than just 3's. Forbes is a keeper if you can have him for a reasonably cheap contract.

[SpurPadre]

Y'all stuck in the past,he has bulked up and increased his skill set to more than just 3's. Forbes is a keeper if you can have him for a reasonably cheap contract.

His play last night is best indicative of who he is: a chucking, low-BBIQ, unathletic, with zero defensive ability player who can occasionally shoot. We can and should strive for better than him, tbh.

[BackHome]

Nah he has turned out to be a pretty decent player love his 3 ball and love that he is able to pump fake and take it to the rim. He is able to do what Bonner and Green were unable to do is fake the three and either take it to the rim or dish for easy basket.

I undertstad the hate I was in that bandwagon to but the kid worked his ass off and is a much better player. Yeah I understand the need for a SF and at some point RC is going to have to make a hard decision and probably trade
someome the question is who - Forbes, Mills, Belli, or Gasol

[SpurPadre]

Nah he has turned out to be a pretty decent player love his 3 ball and love that he is able to pump fake and take it to the rim. He is able to do what Bonner and Green were unable to do is fake the three and either take it to the rim or dish for easy basket.

I undertstad the hate I was in that bandwagon to but the kid worked his ass off and is a much better player. Yeah I understand the need for a SF and at some point RC is going to have to make a hard decision and probably trade
someome the question is who - Forbes, Mills, Belli, or Gasol

I'll take LDN's defense over Forbes' drive to the basket ANY day.

[BackHome]

LDN could NOT shoot and could NOT dribble yeah his fast break defense was good but other then that he sucked.

[cd021]

Forbes has impressed but TD21 is right that his value is at its peak and he is on a super cheap deal. I would hope PATFO strongly considers trading him during the draft though, in an effort to move up.

[daslicer]

Forbes has been solid. Spurs definitely need a 3-D SF but that's something I will leave up to RC/Pop to fix during the summer time.

[Play Boban]

Forges is going to be massively overpaid in his next contract tbh. Sell now.

[TimDunkem]

His play last night is best indicative of who he is: a chucking, low-BBIQ, unathletic, with zero defensive ability player who can occasionally shoot. We can and should strive for better than him, tbh.

Yep. Unfortunately, he is Pop's new man crush and their current charity case so it isn't happening.

[BlackAndWhite]

I believe Forbes will improve even more going into the next season. His next steps are to improve on ball handling so he can fully exploit the shooting gravity he has.

[spurraider21]

crofl his 3m deal in 2019-2020 is going to be one of the better bargains in the NBA and you want to sell now?

you're not getting prince for him :lmao...

[Pavlov]

crofl his 3m deal in 2019-2020 is going to be one of the better bargains in the NBA and you want to sell now?

you're not getting prince for him :lmao...Right? 3m for a guy who can give you 25 minutes of 40%+ volume 3pt shooting is pretty good.

[John B]

Per Pop, every shot Forbes throw looks like it’s going in and for cheap. I doubt he lets him go tbh.

[John B]

I believe Forbes will improve even more going into the next season. His next steps are to improve on ball handling so he can fully exploit the shooting gravity he has.
I’d rather he work on his defense more. He can score but a liability on defense.

[slick'81]

Forges is going to be massively overpaid in his next contract tbh. Sell now.

Fatty mills money coming up

[pad300]

I agree that something has to give with the PG/SG rotation. Derrick White, DJ Murray, Lonnie Walker, Demar Derozan, Bryn Forbes, Belinelli, Mills; 7 is too many on the roster (note that none of them are natural SF's). Which one(s) should go, IMO, is which will bring the most relative value compared to their Spurs role... Bryn's value, as mentioned is probably pretty high, as a volume 3 pt shooter on a really cheap contract. He's been a good troooer, but if he gets value back, then I won't miss him.

[FkLA]

Outside of LMA, DD, Gay, and White any player is tradeable for the right SF, imo. At least if you're plan is to make a title run in the short term.

I just don't know if Forbes would net a good enough SF to really cement the Spurs as legit contenders. That's why I've thrown trading Murray out there. I think he can net more and we already have our PG of the future in White.

[Spurs fever]

I think he's okay. This wasn't supposed to be his role but due to the Murray injury he's being asked to do more. In a smaller role I think he'll be ok. I mean, I'm willing to get rid of him for the right deal but I just don't see it happening.

[Chinook]

RJ 24 with another whining thread

Almost to meme status.

Prince has been a pretty good offensive player (started off really efficient but has regressed to "good scorer on a bad team" status), but Bryn has been a better one. Prince is NOT a good defensive player right now and hasn't been one since he's become a solid rotation player. Having him on the team wouldn't really make the Spurs better, just different. OP is desperate for the Spurs to match his view on what a team should be (rather than, you know, just becoming a fan of a team that already does it), but PATFO has no reason to make a deal unless it's obviously going to help them. They didn't lose to OKC because of not having a body at SF, and they haven't really lost many games at all this season for that reason. Obviously, Covington would make the Spurs better. There's a good chance that Otto Porter could. Not much else really would. Sure, a small trade for a rotational SF still wouldn't be awful. But the timbre of this thread wouldn't fit what would essentially be a housekeeping move.

[MultiTroll]

Will be another Fathead situation. (I honestly can't remember his real name, thanks SpursTalk.)
They'll keep him for 4 years total as he improves just enough to prove he is average at absolute best. Below ave is realistic highest ceiling.

Then start all over with someone else. By that time Popped should be out.

[timtonymanu]

Lol some of y’all acting like Bryn is untouchable

[kaji157]

Forbes is fine for now, we are not gunning for the chip now and he is increasing his trade value.
He may even net us a good player in return.

[sananspursfan21]

If us armchair GMs see that Forbes is at his peak right now, don’t you think NBA GMs see it too? Any team trading for him knows his value. To fill a need, they may trade a slightly higher valued player or one that’s redundant to the roster but there isn’t anyone that would move the needle based on a Forbes and pick trade. Maybe packaging him but some of these posters on here act like these NBA GMs are special ed 1st graders

[Pavlov]

If us armchair GMs see that Forbes is at his peak right now, don’t you think NBA GMs see it too?Not sure they think the same tbh.

[SpurPadre]

Lol some of y’all acting like Bryn is untouchable

The bizarro world man crush many Spurs fans had for Bonner has transferred to Forbes. Apparently, not playing defense gives fans many orgasms. It's mind boggling how mediocrity is celebrated.

[Pavlov]

No one is untouchable, but Forbes is where he is because he fills a role in the starting lineup that only Patty could replicate at this point.

If you're ready to have someone else do that job, make your case for who that should be. Don't just say Forbes sucks.

[Mikeanaro]

Pop seems to like Forbes, his new Hill so forget it.

[jermaine]

Pop seems to like Forbes, his new Hill so forget it.

This is true!

[callo1]

DeMar's struggles are hurting him somewhat, and DeMar's struggles are largely due to Rudy being out. Really seeing spacing issues without Rudy on the floor...it was masked in the double OT win over OKC due to LA's superb play.

Rudy needs to come back quick.

[Pavlov]

Pop seems to like Forbes, his new Hill so forget it.He traded Hill....

[Chinook]

The bizarro world man crush many Spurs fans had for Bonner has transferred to Forbes. Apparently, not playing defense gives fans many orgasms. It's mind boggling how mediocrity is celebrated.

Let me guess: You think you work harder than Bryn too.

[Chinook]

No one is untouchable, but Forbes is where he is because he fills a role in the starting lineup that only Patty could replicate at this point.

If you're ready to have someone else do that job, make your case for who that should be. Don't just say Forbes sucks.

Unless you get a Forbes-level shooter at the three, DeRozan is likely going to play SF for the foreseeable future (meaning years). That position is easier for DeMar defensively, and the team needs shooting on offense way more than they need size on defense. Having someone to spell Gay would obviously be helpful, but there's a gap between that and expecting such a player to be a starter.

[Slippy]

DeMar's struggles are hurting him somewhat, and DeMar's struggles are largely due to Rudy being out. Really seeing spacing issues without Rudy on the floor...it was masked in the double OT win over OKC due to LA's superb play.

Rudy needs to come back quick.

Spacing would hurt Demars game but I don't think that's the main issue. It when he lets his emotions get the better of him and goes into Demar isomode. In turn freezes his teammates out.

When Demar is a funk, he needs to let the offense come to him more. Trust in LA and DWhite to create those opportunities.

Rather that than pop benching demar

[SpurPadre]

Let me guess: You think you work harder than Bryn too.

Ad Hominem, tbh.

[bklynspursfan]

The bizarro world man crush many Spurs fans had for Bonner has transferred to Forbes. Apparently, not playing defense gives fans many orgasms. It's mind boggling how mediocrity is celebrated.

Bonner became a really good post defender his last seasons tbh.

[phxspurfan]

Idiot take. This team secretly relies on Forbes, Beli and Bert to space the floor with their 3BALLs. Without even one of them around, teams would just sag into the paint and bye bye LMA/DeMar's effectiveness.

[marinoman]

Forbes for Beal straight up

[TD 21]

- Didn't say I had my hopes up.

- Young-Huerter would be the starting back court. Forbes would be a backup, but the pick would be the key to the deal.

- Have never understood the bizarre hatred for Forbes.

- Don't get why the usual (miserable) suspects, with their biases, negativity and nothing of substance to add, even bothered cluttering up this thread.

- Now would be the time to sell, while he's got as much time left on his inexpensive contract as possible and the trade is conceivable enough to be uncertain of whether the Hawks would oblige.

- The thread was meant more so as a direction to go in between now and the off season. This trade was just an example.




Almost to meme status.

Prince has been a pretty good offensive player (started off really efficient but has regressed to "good scorer on a bad team" status), but Bryn has been a better one. Prince is NOT a good defensive player right now and hasn't been one since he's become a solid rotation player. Having him on the team wouldn't really make the Spurs better, just different. OP is desperate for the Spurs to match his view on what a team should be (rather than, you know, just becoming a fan of a team that already does it), but PATFO has no reason to make a deal unless it's obviously going to help them. They didn't lose to OKC because of not having a body at SF, and they haven't really lost many games at all this season for that reason. Obviously, Covington would make the Spurs better. There's a good chance that Otto Porter could. Not much else really would. Sure, a small trade for a rotational SF still wouldn't be awful. But the timbre of this thread wouldn't fit what would essentially be a housekeeping move.

Except there was no actual whining in this thread, geniuses.

I don't need your scouting report, guy who's admitted to not really watching the rest of the league. No one said Prince is the second coming of scumbag, but he is about as good as can be reasonably expected and isn't a finished product yet. He has no inherent weakness to fill the role, he just need more refinement. Naturally, his defense got worse as he became more of a featured player offensively. That tends to happen. It also wouldn't be his role here.

Yeah, I'm desperate for the team I go for to better their team . . . how dare I. What an awful fan I am.

You're beyond delusional if you don't think this is a gaping hole or that it's only worth bothering for a player they can't get (Covington), unless they want to drastically overpay.

[gambit1990]

He traded Hill....
:lol

[venitian navigator]

Walker is the likely number 2 of the future for our team...has been drafted not only because he's athletic and that, in time, should translate in a good defensive player, but also 'cause ha has a very good shooting form, also from 3 point range. That said, injuries and young age made him unplayable for this season...but next one the experiment (hoping in a healthy player) will be probably ready to start...and with good expectations.
This season I agree we should seriously consider the chance to trade for a good to very good sf aka 3 and d if available...and of all back court names probably Forbes is one of the most expendable for the right player...

[venitian navigator]

Walker is the likely number 2 of the future for our team...has been drafted not only because he's athletic and that, in time, should translate in a good defensive player, but also 'cause ha has a very good shooting form, also from 3 point range. That said, injuries and young age made him unplayable for this season...but next one the experiment (hoping in a healthy player) will be probably ready to start...and with good expectations.
This season I agree we should seriously consider the chance to trade for a good to very good sf aka 3 and d if available...and of all back court names probably Forbes is one of the most expendable for the right player...

[Chris]

I'm comfortable with Rudy Gay at SF. You're just yearning for someone to fill Leonard's shoes and that's understandable. I did the same thing when Tim Duncan retired.

[R. DeMurre]

Three weeks ago, a bunch of people were saying the Spurs needed to tank the entire season because they were obviously so bad.

Now all they need to do is trade Forbes for a young SF from a 13-30 team and they'll have a shot at a title.

[Stabula]

Forbes and Whites development have been some of the major bright spots of the season. This thread sucks.

[cutewizard]

:bobo

[monty4329]

(one of the) cheapest productive guard in NBA: therefore you don't get anything of same quality if you trade him.

Since White has come around playing decent point, he can play shooting guard. He is doing an excellent job at it. Next year with Murray and White, his height won't be a problem -this year it is, he can't play together with Mills.

Absolutely no reason to trade him, in my opinion.

[Spurtacular]

Prepare for disappointment.

Lakers forum downstairs.

[apalisoc_9]

Almost to meme status.

Prince has been a pretty good offensive player (started off really efficient but has regressed to "good scorer on a bad team" status), but Bryn has been a better one. Prince is NOT a good defensive player right now and hasn't been one since he's become a solid rotation player. Having him on the team wouldn't really make the Spurs better, just different. OP is desperate for the Spurs to match his view on what a team should be (rather than, you know, just becoming a fan of a team that already does it), but PATFO has no reason to make a deal unless it's obviously going to help them. They didn't lose to OKC because of not having a body at SF, and they haven't really lost many games at all this season for that reason. Obviously, Covington would make the Spurs better. There's a good chance that Otto Porter could. Not much else really would. Sure, a small trade for a rotational SF still wouldn't be awful. But the timbre of this thread wouldn't fit what would essentially be a housekeeping move.

This is just supreme level of delusion and arrogance on your part.

To start, Prince is worth way more than a 1st and forbes sorry op. Thats unrealistic.

While Prince has shown the lack of willingness to defend after 15 games, when he's diald in he's a very competent tall defender.

Ptince for Forbes is more than just what you would call a housekeeping move. It's an improvent in all facets. Bryn offers one thing and one thing only. Shooting. Thats replacebale wiyth Belli, Mills, Amd Bertans around.

The Spurs have been losing games simply because they cant rely on gimmicky defense for too long. They need tall player. Thsts what they need. They're defensively challenged ( per pop).

Adding Prince not only improves the defeneive potential, but it it does so wuthout giving away offensive potency. Nevermind that prince is going tp rebound better.

Getting rid of forbes for prince isnt exactly changing the current tactics either. Rather just improving in its overall potential.

Bryn is really just a redundant non-nba caliber athlete that can shoot. He needs to go.

[duncan2k5]

I've been saying this forever... He is a streaky undersized SG that is horrible on defense... You don't keep him simply because he has a few decent regular season games... Judge him in the playoffs... Where he has consistently shat the bed and walked around with his head hanging

[ceperez]

For the money the Spurs are paying Forbes to play in the starting lineup, he's a BARGAIN.

Before we complain, you've got to ask if there are any comparable bargains out there in the league.

The reason why the Spurs are losing games in that stars like DD, LMA and Gay aren't showing up. Don't blame the underpaid scrub for the loses. He's on the court to spread the court so that DD, LMA and Gay can do their damage... unfortunately they are MIA in too many games.

[Pavlov]

Lakers forum downstairs.
:lol triggered

[r0drig0lac]

This is just supreme level of delusion and arrogance on your part.

To start, Prince is worth way more than a 1st and forbes sorry op. Thats unrealistic.

While Prince has shown the lack of willingness to defend after 15 games, when he's diald in he's a very competent tall defender.

Ptince for Forbes is more than just what you would call a housekeeping move. It's an improvent in all facets. Bryn offers one thing and one thing only. Shooting. Thats replacebale wiyth Belli, Mills, Amd Bertans around.

The Spurs have been losing games simply because they cant rely on gimmicky defense for too long. They need tall player. Thsts what they need. They're defensively challenged ( per pop).

Adding Prince not only improves the defeneive potential, but it it does so wuthout giving away offensive potency. Nevermind that prince is going tp rebound better.

Getting rid of forbes for prince isnt exactly changing the current tactics either. Rather just improving in its overall potential.

Bryn is really just a redundant non-nba caliber athlete that can shoot. He needs to go.
easily

[BSfromTX]

I agree. We have too many combo guards and not enough true SFs for defense. Forbes stock is high, and if we can get something serviceable I would do it...

hard to believe Walker can’t take his minutes.

[Chinook]

Ad Hominem, tbh.

You aren't making an argument where that would be fallacious, so no.

[Chinook]

Good defense isn't about gimmicks. Yes, any time you can confuse your opponents you can get an advantage, but the foundation of good defense is discipline, and it's that attention to detail that has led to team making big gains. Yeah, the Spurs aren't likely to be an elite defense without some elite defenders. But they're an offense-first team now, and their D only has to be good enough to support that. Bringing in a rotational SF isn't going to turn the team into a defensive juggernaut unless that player is himself a top defender. Besides that, it's going to be down to chemistry with the starting unit, something that already exists or will again once Gay returns to the lineup.

People aren't thinking this through. DeRozan guards small-forwards better than he guards two-guards. You get a guy like Prince and start him, and you aren't any more likely to do anything against GS. If DeRozan is bad on Durant, he's also going to be bad on Thompson. Indeed, he'd probably be worse, because DeMar's off-ball D is worse than he on-ball D. So if you put him on Durant and Prince on Thompson, why the fuck did you do the trade in the first place? Then you have a team like Portland with two dynamic guards, and you end up DeRozan at the two struggling to check McCollum, or you play him at the three and put in a guard, and ... well you're right back to wondering what the hell was the need to pick up a small-forward then.

If people can actually come up with legit examples for when the Forbes/White/DeRozan/Gay/Aldridge lineup found itself losing games due to lack of size at the wing, I'm willing to listen. Instead, it sounds an awful lot like folks are worried (or I guess whining if you're the OP) over nothing. The team is much more likely to lose because the offense goes to shit than they are because of the defense. Dude plays poorly in a loss, and the misguided assumption is "Wow, this guy is losing games," rather than, "Wow, this team really depends on him shooting well". Probably the biggest reason why ST can't handle a loss well at all.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Forbes is a player we need to keep. he's a bargain and it's not like trading him is going to get us a first rounder anyway so there's no point to it. If anybody needs to be traded it's Gasol or Mills. What we need is patience for the future. We have great defenders in White and Murray that cover up a lot of DeRozan's defensive weaknesses. A Murray, White, DeRozan line up should be really effective if Murray develops like we hope. We have Lonnie who by all accounts has all the talent in the world, it's just a matter of molding him into a smarter and more effective player. Honestly if Gay can just stay healthy for an entire season, then we are a championship level team next year.

[SpurPadre]

You aren't making an argument where that would be fallacious, so no.

I was making the argument that Forbes is a bad player because his defense is too bad to justify his offense so, yes.

[objective]

I think the gist of the thread is more correct than incorrect

Forbes probably has more value now with 1.5 years left on his cheap deal than next year with only 1 or 0.5 at the deadline.

Mills and Marco probably are not going anywhere for a variety of reasons that make them less movable than Forbes.

Hill was moved in part because they couldn't afford to keep him after re-signing Jefferson. If it wasn't for Kawhi it probably would have been for someone else.

Forbes' future is probably limited if the team makes a healthy, expected transition to a future 3-guard rotation of White-Murray-Walker with Mills still hanging around another 2 years to get minutes and DeRozan still available at the 2 for minutes if needed.

Now if there's a setback with Murray or if Walker is a non-factor in the future that changes things. But if the expectation is that the Spurs will run a backcourt mix of the 3 recent first round picks plus Mills plus DeRozan plus Marco as soon as next season ... Forbes might be more valuable in a trade

I'm not so sure about a Prince deal or if that's viable. And I don't know if he would be valued in other deals and be what gets a deal done like with Covington or Porter. But the general thrust of the argument is probably right.

Spurs themselves didn't even expect to play Forbes that much this year and they paid him accordingly. Starting backcourt was supposed to be Murray-DeRozan with White-Mills off the bench. Forbes was a 5th/6th guard who has surpassed expectations. Capitalizing on that seems reasonable enough.

[Chinook]

I was making the argument that Forbes is a bad player because his defense is too bad to justify his offense so, yes.

Nah, you were wondering why so many folks defend him, despite him being a bad player (even though he's been demonstrably good this year). You also likened him to Bonner, whom you hate because you apparently work harder than him. Seems completely appropriate to assume your vitriol comes from the same place for both guys.

[SpurPadre]

Nah, you were wondering why so many folks defend him, despite him being a bad player (even though he's been demonstrably good this year). You also likened him to Bonner, whom you hate because you apparently work harder than him. Seems completely appropriate to assume your vitriol comes from the same place for both guys.

LOL, show me the metrics that prove he's been "demonstrably good" this year, especially in regards to defense. Yes, I was wondering why people defend him on the basis that his defense has been DEMONSTRABLY horrendous this year that doesn't justify the small positives his offense brings. And while you continue to put words in my mouth, your reference to the work harder bullshit is in reference to another ad Hominem you used on me because I had questioned Bonner's work ethic (as the lack of results on the floor, especially in the playoffs, gave me the right to question it). You're better than that Chinook.

[Chinook]

LOL, show me the metrics that prove he's been "demonstrably good" this year, especially in regards to defense. Yes, I was wondering why people defend him on the basis that his defense has been DEMONSTRABLY horrendous this year that doesn't justify the small positives his offense brings. And while you continue to put words in my mouth, your reference to the work harder bullshit is in reference to another ad Hominem you used on me because I had questioned Bonner's work ethic (as the lack of results on the floor, especially in the playoffs, gave me the right to question it). You're better than that Chinook.

The logical thing when faced with a situation where a lot of folks disagree with you is reevaluate your view, not just assume a bunch of folks are stupid. You, though, have already demonstrated that you'll just hate players for reasons beyond how well they do on the court. Could show you stats on stats showing that he was a good or at least competent NBA player, but none of that would have a chance in the face of your opinion that he didn't work hard enough to be in the league. That's its own thread though, but the main reason why it's relevant is because a) You directly connected Bonner and Forbes with your first post and b) You only care about supporting stats if they agree with you.

Full disclosure here: I'm not happy with NBA.com's stats right now. They used to have defense broken down by play type (isos, PnR, etc), but now they have a lump "defensive impact" category. The DFG% in there has Bryn as the third-worst on the team at 75 percent. That would be horrible, but the reason why I am unhappy is that the site has every Spur from this year has unspeakably horrible in that stat, and they have every Spur from LAST YEAR as horrible in that stat. That doesn't make sense, as the Spurs were an elite D last year and could have been so if everyone individually was a turnstile (including Murray, Anderson and Green). I'm ignoring those and just posting the general D stats:

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612759

Those have Bryn as an average defender whose numbers are hurt mostly by him not being a front-court player. The same thing is true for BBRef's btb; rebounding dominates those stats. ESPN's DRPM has him at 71st for two-guards, but once his offense is factored in, he moves up to 21. Add in his minutes, and he moves to 15. That's not bad. If you were to consider him a PG, the D would put him at 57. He's move up to 32 with the O, and he'd be 27 with minutes factored in. Of course, RPM doesn't change very easily, so Forbes is fighting the team's poor start and an abysmal ranking from last year. A single-year version of the stat probably has him as being better.

To keep it topical with the thread, Forbes' RPM blows Prince's out of the water. Taurean is grading out as a major negative on both ends.

So anyway, yeah, Bryn's not a bad player. He doesn't deserve the hate you throw him. The Spurs could upgrade, but not just with any old wing off the street. He's not an immediate anchor for the roster. He doesn't "have to go."

[florige]

His play last night is best indicative of who he is: a chucking, low-BBIQ, unathletic, with zero defensive ability player who can occasionally shoot. We can and should strive for better than him, tbh.


He just seems to always be wandering around the 3-point line with his hand up looking for someone to pass it to him so he can chuck it up, or he's on the fast break and pulls up for a ill-advised brick.

[TD 21]

- :lmao At Gay at SF. I'm not yearning for another scumbag, I'm yearning for a competent SF. It's not too much to ask and not me nor probably anyone with common sense, is going to stop harping on it until it's resolved; miserable, delusional apologists be damned.

- No one in this thread claimed they'd be contenders with this or a similar move.

- I'd guess the Hawks wouldn't do it, mostly because the Spurs 1st looks like it could be 20ish and this trade could easily push it a few spots lower. I'd also consider both 1sts as part of a larger deal.

- Some would freak over that, but really they'd just be hoping to get a player with his tools with one of those picks. Then they've got to develop them for a few years, hope Aldridge and Gay are still in their prime, that no key player suffers a career altering injury, that the league is as (relatively) open as it is now, etc.

- I don't care about random regular season games where this team got away with something that would more than likely cost them in a playoff series or Prince's metrics, in a limited sample size, playing an outsized role, on a bad team. Other than the very best, it's always about context in this sport and he's already shown that he can succeed in the role he'd have here. He's nothing special, but good luck finding someone who checks as many boxes (for different reasons, Covington and Porter are pipe dreams).

[Spurtacular]

:lol triggered

You're free to talk Spurs. I just figured you'd want to know where the talk for your favorite Lakers is. Wouldn't want you to get bored of Spurs talk.

[Pavlov]

You're free to talk Spurs. I just figured you'd want to know where the talk for your favorite Lakers is. Wouldn't want you to get bored of Spurs talk.:lol triggered

[Spurtacular]

:lol triggered

Nope. I accept that you're a Lakers fan. What inspired you to make the change of allegiance?

[Pavlov]

Nope. I accept that you're a Lakers fan. What inspired you to make the change of allegiance?:lol triggered

[Spurtacular]

:lol triggered

What inspired you to make the change of allegiance to the Lakers?

[Pavlov]

What inspired you to make the change of allegiance to the Lakers?I knew changing some bytes on a message board would trigger you.

[Spurtacular]

I knew changing some bytes on a message board would trigger you.

I don't think the change had a damn thing to do with me directly. You want to try again, or you happy with that lie, sociopath?

[objective]

Been doing more research and watching more footage ... I don't think I'd want to see the Spurs add both firsts with Forbes.

But Prince is a pretty decent 3 pt shooter. Hell he throws up more threes per 100 possessions than Forbes even. I don't think they'd be that much hurt in that department.

But how would he react on the lower usage? He has had more usage than either Porter or Covington ever have. Those are two guys who know their roles. Porter is such a team player and anti-diva that he's come off the bench for the Wizards the last 7 games without blowing up. Played pretty well also but he's taken the bench role. Would Prince know his role also? For example, Forbes presently has even higher usage than Porter or Covington, how would Prince take it.

Obviously he's not the defender Covington is, probably not even approaching the defender Porter is. Two inch shorter wingspan doesn't help. But he's also has unusually bad rebound numbers. Atlanta was also pretty bad in team rebounding numbers last year and it doesn't look like he was helping with that.

Still though, if Atlanta was willing to do it for Forbes+1st I figure it's worth a shot.

[Pavlov]

I don't think the change had a damn thing to do with me directly. You want to try again, or you happy with that lie, sociopath?I'm happy with triggering you on a daily basis.:tu

[Spurtacular]

I'm happy with triggering you on a daily basis.:tu

Cool story, bruh. Turns out you have no allegiance to the Spurs. :lmao

[Pavlov]

Cool story, bruh. Turns out you have no allegiance to the Spurs. :lmaoTurns out you're triggered.:lmao

[Spurtacular]

Turns out you're triggered.:lmao

:lmao Turncoat

[Pavlov]

:lmao Turncoat:lmao triggered

[objective]

Not literally of course, but logically.

The vast majority of us have discussed ad nauseam the need for a 3 and D SF since the trade, but what rarely, if ever is brought up, is the need to create a rotation spot for said player. With Forbes' emergence and Murray returning next season, they'll have 6 to cover 1-3, without including Walker or filling the gaping hole.

Something's got to give. In an ideal world, that something would be Mills or Belinelli, for obvious reasons. Realistically, neither is happening though, again for obvious reasons.

Unfortunately, that leaves Forbes. Reminds me of Hill, in the sense that you know they'd hate to do it, but he's superfluous, his value is at its peak and he can help fill the exact same glaring hole that they had from '09-'11. Plus, it makes no sense to pay him his next contract, with bigger fish to fry in the back court down the line and the need on the wing.

Speaking of that need, virtually all of the realistic oft discussed names have significant flaws (overpaid, too old, too gimpy, not strong enough, not a good enough 3-point shooter either in %, volume or both). Might as well try to actually fix the problem as opposed to hope to.

Which brings me to Prince. Their current regime didn't draft him, he's almost 25, they're in pick collection mode and have an affinity for shooters. Forbes and the Spurs' 1st might get it done. He'd balance the roster and perfectly thread the needle between winning now and later.

Recency bias be damned, but I'm fully on board now, :lol

Spurs don't need Forbes when they have Mills. Don't need them to combine for 9-28.

Make it both firsts, who cares

[timtonymanu]

Lol Bryn is a "keeper"

Truly a red carpet defender who is hit or miss from 3. Like we don't have enough of those in the rotation already.

[SpurPadre]

Lol Bryn is a "keeper"

Truly a red carpet defender who is hit or miss from 3. Like we don't have enough of those in the rotation already.

Some here even think he's better than Conley, lol.

[slick'81]

Forbes waiting for that patty $12mil per

[vander]

he's hardly been worse than derozen lately,

and derozen is a "star" making 27 mill, where is the 'Derozen Has To Go' thread?

[SpurPadre]

he's hardly been worse than derozen lately,

and derozen is a "star" making 27 mill, where is the 'Derozen Has To Go' thread?

Oh yes he has been worse. At least DeRozan does more than just look for his shot, doing nothing else but clap his hands like a fucking idiot.

[TD 21]

Recency bias be damned, but I'm fully on board now, :lol

Spurs don't need Forbes when they have Mills. Don't need them to combine for 9-28.

Make it both firsts, who cares

I probably would too. To be clear, I wouldn't include Forbes at that point though. Instead, I'd shop him for an early 2nd, to basically replace the Raptors 1st. :lol

[objective]

Forbes + Untouchable = Bryntouchable

[Spurtacular]

:cry Muh Lakers

[Jsmythe]

Here's a recent article about how Forbes is a bargain compared to Mills/Belinelli/Bertans. Ironically, this article on Forbes is on the Forbes magazine website:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robwolkenbrod/2019/01/16/spurs-bryn-forbes-is-bargain-that-only-becomes-cheaper/#3b0a83607742

A small excerpt:


Compared to other, three-point shooting complementary pieces, the Michigan State product's numbers stand ahead of Marco Belinelli ($6 million), Davis Bertans ($7 million), and Patty Mills ($11.5 million). All three provide what Forbes does, with Mills as the greatest comparison as an undersized two-guard that primarily shoots from distance, while making $8 million more on smaller percentages and points per game.

Given Forbes' salary for 2018-19, the Spurs will have him at a cheaper rate in 2019-20, at $2.875 million, while Mills' contract surges to $12.4 million; Bertans' salary is flat and Belinelli's sinks to $5.8 million. If improvement is the road ahead, it becomes a grander bargain that provides quality production at a team-friendly rate.

[spurraider21]

bryn isn't untouchable. but it seems dumb to want to cast off a solid contributor who is due just under 3 mil next season. he's a bargain now and will be even more of a bargain next year.

the real frustration is patty... you would think bryn could be his successor, but when bryn becomes a FA (and will likely be due a significant raise), patty is STILL on the books for 13 mil in 2020. i woulnd't mind paying bryn to replace patty, but you cant have them at the same time if they're both being paid a premium

[Chinook]

bryn isn't untouchable. but it seems dumb to want to cast off a solid contributor who is due just under 3 mil next season. he's a bargain now and will be even more of a bargain next year.

Yeah, but you can't tell some people. Forbes' value is high because he's cheap and useful. Just as other teams might want a cheap and useful player, so too should the Spurs. If you had everyone healthy and playing well, and Bryn was a guy who barely played but light it up when he did (like Mills before he became a rotation player in 2012), then trading him for something else that would be more useful makes sense. But right now, he's a firm rotation player now. Lonnie may not be better next year (or he could have a third injury in three years), or Murray could be slowed all next year. The Spurs finally seem to have a deep and intriguing guard rotation in the works, but there's need to prune it until every egg hatches.

[duncan2k5]

Can't wait till the playoffs to see u guys change ur tune about Forbes

[Chinook]

Can't wait till the playoffs to see u guys change ur tune about Forbes

Like you changed your tune about Kawhi after last playoffs?

[Seventyniner]

Here's a recent article about how Forbes is a bargain compared to Mills/Belinelli/Bertans. Ironically, this article on Forbes is on the Forbes magazine website:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robwolkenbrod/2019/01/16/spurs-bryn-forbes-is-bargain-that-only-becomes-cheaper/#3b0a83607742

A small excerpt:

That's gotta be a biased article, just look at the domain name!

[koriwhat]

i'd like to keep Forbes for now. dude has grown leaps and bounds as well as shattering any expectations of him that any of us had or didn't have tbh. he's also gained muscle and isn't getting bullied much in the paint while also adding more than a 3pt shot to his repertoire.

i'm intrigued by his personal growth with the spurs and want to see how what else he works on this coming off season.

[TD 21]

In an ideal world, that something would be Mills or Belinelli, for obvious reasons. Realistically, neither is happening though, again for obvious reasons.


Unfortunately, that leaves Forbes. Reminds me of Hill, in the sense that you know they'd hate to do it

[dbestpro]

I would not give up Forbes for anything less than a first round pick.

[spurraider21]

In an ideal world, that something would be Mills or Belinelli, for obvious reasons. Realistically, neither is happening though, again for obvious reasons.

Unfortunately, that leaves Forbes. Reminds me of Hill, in the sense that you know they'd hate to do it.
The Spurs dealt Hill a season before he was due a big contract, and his salary spiked from 1.7 to 8 mil. The situations aren't analogous at all. We have Forbes locked up for cheap through 19-20

[timtonymanu]

Bryntouchable “showing” his worth out there

[slick'81]

Bryntouchable “showing” his worth out there

9 points amd 4 dimes if u combine with fatty

[Chinook]

Yet another thread where the point isn't to be a referendum on the player but it gets bumped as if it were.

[Hoops Czar]

DeRozen has to go.

Edit: Oh shit, wrong thread.

[objective]

Prince might have been made expendable by 1st round pick Kevin Huerter who as a rookie is averaging 11, 3, & 3 as a starter shooting 39.6% from 3.

In January he's averaging 15, 4, & 4.

Prince has come off the bench 3 straight games coming off injury averaging 8 & 5.

Though I suppose they might see Huerter as a SG and Bembry as the SF.

Still though, Prince might not be off the table

[SpurPadre]

Forbes continues to prove me wrong with his excellent display of basketball.

[timtonymanu]

Forbes continues to prove me wrong with his excellent display of basketball.

:cry He tries hard every game.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

We just gotta hope that Waller improves as the year goes on and makes some serious strides defensively. It's obvious that both Murray and White are ahead of Forbes on the depth chart, as well as DeRozan and Belli. If Walker can prove that he can play NBA level defense then we don't have to worry about the midget duo anymore.

[Play Boban]

If I was GM, we would go 82-0 and Forges would be playing for the Suns.

[Figa]

his basketball career is a typical case of: "immense effort, questionable results". I like the guy, don't get me wrong.

[Truth4sale$]

I dont see a 3 and D available for the Spurs ar their budget, i would wait until to see how the draft shakes out, their good talent that maybe available. With 2 picks and adding either Gasol or Mills. Could be enticing to move a few spots up, before giving up Forbes.

[SpurPadre]

:cry He tries hard every game.

:cry And he wasn't supposed to be the starter, give him a break!

[DAF86]

Forbes is a nice player to have for that Gary Neal role. A microwave type bench player that plays around 15/18 minutes per game. He should never be a starter playing 30 mpg.

[marinoman]

Going after a 3 million dollar young player who is only starting due to injury is stupid. I would rather have Bradley Beal too but not realistic

[TimmyBuckets]

Can Lonnie take his spot next year? Is it possible for him to start with DJ and White off bench or vice-versa? Or too early for Walker even next year?

[Keepin' it real]

If I was GM, we would go 82-0 and Forges would be playing for the Suns.

:lol :cry


Forbes is a nice player to have for that Gary Neal role. He should never be a starter playing 30 mpg.

But he is.

[dontouchmebwo]

I mean I've been happy with him, he's played great for the player he is and the role he's been forced into this year, look at teams like the Raptors, they've got CJ Miles shooting 31 & 28% from the field & he's playing the Forbes role off the bench, could be worse.

[DAF86]

But he is.

Pop's fault, not Forbes.

[mkurts]

This team isn't good enough to survive a bad starting SG, there's no talent on the bench.

[BackHome]

I don’t mind Forbes in the Mills roll come off bench and just do your
3 point thing. He gets into trouble when he has to play as a starter and tries to be a passer/slasher SG. Just pick a spot and wait to get pass and shoot 3 he is pretty good in that roll.

[SpaceCoast Spursfan]

Bottom line if you look over next two years I just don't see where Forbes will get the minutes he is getting this year. I can't see a situation where Walker isn't the better overall player (imo next year but certainly by the following year). Moving forward Murray, White, Walker + vets DDR, Mills, & Beli under contract. I don't see POP moving Party and just think Forbes minutes will diminish in coming years. If you can move him for a young, cheap SF option or another pick in (15-23) range I would go for it while his value is high

[monty4329]

I was very skeptical but Bryn has won me over. he just had a couple bad nights, but he made strides since the beginning of the season. He and White are very solid.
Also, his good shooting forces defenses to guarding him, and has developed a nice penetration to the basket. He needs, like everybody else in the Spurs, the ball to move well.

Forbes is maybe the one that suffers more when DDR plays just to get his stats up.

[superbigtime]

Bryn is a keeper.

[SpaceCoast Spursfan]

I was very skeptical but Bryn has won me over. he just had a couple bad nights, but he made strides since the beginning of the season. He and White are very solid.
Also, his good shooting forces defenses to guarding him, and has developed a nice penetration to the basket. He needs, like everybody else in the Spurs, the ball to move well.

Forbes is maybe the one that suffers more when DDR plays just to get his stats up.

To be clear, I think Bryn is clearly a solid player (not a starter) who is an extremely good value contract wise. Ideally the Spurs could find a hidden gem at SF (Moore?) or be willing to move Patty (though I understand why they don't want to).

I just feel the need for a SF (especially one who can play a bit of defense) is much greater than an undersized SG/PG hybrid. I think at some point the Spurs have to commit to going young in the backcourt moving on from 1 (if not 2) of Patty, Beli, DDR. Assuming DDR is here for two years along with Beli/Party then I think you have to try and choose 1 out of Murray, White, Walker, and Bryn to use to upgrade other positions of need. In that scenario for me Bryn is the odd man out.

[SpursDynasty85]

Patty/Belli/Forbes are all good but dont we need to get rid of one of them? If not, looks like we will have a loaded back court until after next season. Hopefully at that time Patty and Belli move on and we focus on our young guards.

[DAF86]

The top 5 minutes getters for the Spurs should be White, DeRozan, Bertans, Gay and Aldridge. Making that switch between Bertans and Forbes would help the team tremendously, imho.

[r0drig0lac]

The top 5 minutes getters for the Spurs should be White, DeRozan, Bertans, Gay and Aldridge. Making that switch between Bertans and Forbes would help the team tremendously, imho.

maybe in 2k, in the real world where Pop sees Demar as a sf this is not happening

[DAF86]

maybe in 2k, in the real world where Pop sees Demar as a sf this is not happening

But in the real World DeRozan is really a SG (not that it makes that big of a difference, tbh).

[r0drig0lac]

But in the real World DeRozan is really a SG (not that it makes that big of a difference, tbh).

no doubt about it, and no doubt about the fact that Pop will continue to use Derozan with two guards

[Coach X]

We're pretty much agree about this.

I'm not a Forbes fan but you've got to admit the kid worked his ass off this summer. He changed his body and that impacted dramatically his game. From being unplayable last season to become the starting PG is quite a challenge and he performed very well. As Popovich uses to say: he has earned a spot in this league.

Anyway, I don't think he's a player the Spurs need anymore. He's a small shooting guard that can play only decent defense against secondary players due to his size. Truly can score the three and has developed a drive to the basket attacking defensive closeouts. Brynn can even pull up an efficient mid jumper off the dribble, he's a reliable spot-up offensive player. I can see him as a good bench player in most of the league teams. The problem with him is that he's not a Point Guard but he has that size, so he needs a taller PG next to him to complete a regular backcourt.

In San Antonio, there is already a player with the same profile: Patty Mills. There is no room for two of these players in the same NBA roster due to the current level of athleticism in the game. At the moment, the franchise considers Mills irreplaceable in the program, he's not going anywhere. So it's Forbes who has to move.

The 3 most interesting young players San Antonio has are all guards. The Spurs are decided to invest in all of them and are looking for their mid/long term progression. They're meant to play considerable minutes next season.

One of the two leaders of the team, DeMarr DeRozan is a guard, despite he's eventually playing the 3 this season. He plays like a guard and he has served very well for the team in that role. It seems the Spurs' and DeRozan's ways won't separate in the next years.

To sum up, Spurs have DeRozan, Murray, White, Walker and Mills in the backcourt rotation locked for the next season and maybe the next one. There is no room for Brynn Forbes. This season, Marco Belinelli is playing good minutes replacing Murray and Walker.

I'd definitely take advantage of Forbes' combination of contract and good play this season so far. I'm sure it has a value in the market. This team needs athletic forwards and Brynn could be included in a pack with one or few of Gasol/Dante/Toronto's pick depending on what the target is. That would be good for the kid as well, giving him a real chance of establishing himself in the league instead of being relegated to the third unit next season. This is what makes me feel optimistic about the trade, the club clearly appreciates what Brynn Forbes has done and I can see PATFO letting him go as they did with DeColo, Joseph or more recently with Simmons, Anderson and Blossomgame.

[kaji157]

Forbes could be a valuable asset for a team like Memphis who is in need of 3pt shooting. Him and the Toronto pick, for Memphis pick and a filler is something doable.
It would most likely involve a series of protections. Maybe top 15 protected this year and the next.

[SpursDynasty85]

Forbes plus Toronto's pick and 2nd rounder for Taurean Prince.

[Ditty]

Forbes fucking sucks

[slick'81]

Thank god for patty mills

[SpurPadre]

People still think he's untouchable...TF outta here.

[BackHome]

I hated on him early but give him credit for working his ass off and becoming a legit NBA player. But it is probably in both his and our interest to move him this summer in some type of trade as his playing time will be greatly impacted next year.

[SpurPadre]

I hated on him early but give him credit for working his ass off and becoming a legit NBA player. But it is probably in both his and our interest to move him this summer in some type of trade as his playing time will be greatly impacted next year.

I keep seeing this argument. There are no brownie points in this league. He's not good enough to be a starter no matter how hard he works. And if he is a starter, it should be for a non-playoff team.

[Pavlov]

https://i.imgur.com/EToU1hn.jpg

Looks Like Sean is on the START LONNIE WALKER TRAIN... poor Forbes.....Lil Engine that Didn'tWhat did Sean say about Lonnie's starting over Forbes?

I'd like the full quote.

[Pavlov]

Re-Read my post. I where do I write that Sean Say that. It the Look on his mug. Perplexed. Why is this kid in the G league and I've been seeing the lil Engine that didn't fuck up for like 40 games?Oh, so there's nothing but your bias to go on.:tu